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Andrew Jackson ... The Making of A President · Conversations: Special Guests with Preston Scott

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Here we go, third hour of the morning show. I
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: am I am the host, Preston Scott. I mean you
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: talk about a coincidence morning show with Preston Scott. I'm
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: on the side of a road. Well, we'll do radio
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: for food and Lee Bowen drives up says, what's your name?
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I said, Preston Scott. He said, no way, I've got
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: a radio program with a name like are you interested?
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Here we are twenty four years later, joining me, doctor
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  Speaker 1: Ed Moore with a little more history, formerly the president
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  Speaker 1: of the Independent Colleges and Universities of Florida. How are you.
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  Speaker 1: I'm good.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I will talk for food. Yeah, Yeah, that's all
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  Speaker 2: I get paid anymore.
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  Speaker 1: That's kind of where we've been reduced to. All Right,
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  Speaker 1: So we've been talking about presidents that don't get a
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  Speaker 1: lot of publicity, don't get a lot of love in
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  Speaker 1: the history books, and people don't spend much time learning
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  Speaker 1: about them. Before we talk about old Hickory set the stage.
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  Speaker 1: What what was going on in America? What was the
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  Speaker 1: mood like before he took office?
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  Speaker 2: Well, we were in transition after the American Revolution, and
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  Speaker 2: they were trying to figure out what was going on.
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  Speaker 2: Congress was dominating over the White House. I mean, the
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  Speaker 2: presidency was relatively weak for a lot of these early guys.
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  Speaker 2: It was the nature of the beast. Was a lot
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  Speaker 2: of egos in Congress, a lot of people that came
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  Speaker 2: through the revolution early on, and they were going to dominate.
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  Speaker 2: And then you had a country that was busting at
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  Speaker 2: the seams with what it had in terms of land.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, manifest destiny was a concept but not fully embraced. Actually,
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  Speaker 2: John Quincy Adams turns out we'll talk when we talk
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  Speaker 2: more about Andrew Jackson. John Quincy Adams was Secretary of
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  Speaker 2: State and very supportive when Monroe sent Andrew Jackson said,
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  Speaker 2: go down into Florida, Spanish Florida. We didn't the United
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  Speaker 2: States didn't have Florida. And Quincy Adam was like, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: go for it, go for it. We need that land,
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  Speaker 2: let's get it.
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  Speaker 1: There was that.
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  Speaker 2: Manifest destiny that infused a lot of a lot of
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  Speaker 2: the known politicians, but there were many of them saying no, no,
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  Speaker 2: we have to constrain ourselves. We don't want to we
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  Speaker 2: don't want to go to war with Spain, we don't
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  Speaker 2: want to go to war again with England. Well, the English.
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  Speaker 2: We were still bubbling with them. I mean in eighteen hundred,
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  Speaker 2: early eighteen hundreds, it was still you could, you know,
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  Speaker 2: throw a match on that fire and it was going
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  Speaker 2: to blow up. And then the War of eighteen twelve happened,
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  Speaker 2: and part of it was Florida. We're sitting here as
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  Speaker 2: this place with limited resources. We think about the erar,
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  Speaker 2: think about remove right now all the electric wires, all
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  Speaker 2: the roads, every bit of concrete, everything, And look at Florida.
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  Speaker 1: Florida swamps and alligators one much here, you know, my ancestry.
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  Speaker 2: I look at them, and they came down. It was
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  Speaker 2: two set to four brothers that left Marnwoyle County, South Carolina,
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  Speaker 2: starting in the mid eighteen thirties and destination the South
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  Speaker 2: Alabama Panhandle, and then what ultimately became Gainesville Hogtown.
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  Speaker 1: Moved to the peninsula.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, they just moved into North Florida, which is nothing here.
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  Speaker 2: And you look and go, okay, you left South Carolina,
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  Speaker 2: that comes to nothing, you know. I mean if you
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  Speaker 2: went to Gold or you went to you know, you
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  Speaker 2: wanted to raise cattle somewhere. This was swamp and forest
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  Speaker 2: and marsh and not a lot going on and a
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  Speaker 2: lot of Indian tribes, a lot of native tribes. People
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  Speaker 2: tend to think seminoles have always been here. No, they haven't.
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  Speaker 1: Always been here.
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  Speaker 2: You know, it was probably just in our region alone,
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  Speaker 2: going over between here and just west of the Apalachicola River,
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  Speaker 2: they're probably half a dozen different self identified true vibes
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  Speaker 2: that wanted to they wanted to be in charge of
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  Speaker 2: their own world. We tended, historians and the government at
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  Speaker 2: the time tended to lump them all into upper creeks
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  Speaker 2: and lower creeks, and it was easier to categorize them
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  Speaker 2: all being the same. They spoke different languages. They mean,
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  Speaker 2: it was a different structures on top of all that.
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  Speaker 2: We wanted the land we wanted to you.
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  Speaker 1: Know, so we meaning the federal government.
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  Speaker 2: Federal government and speculators, and you know, nothing changes under
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  Speaker 2: the sun. You know, it's always the same. Somebody's going
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  Speaker 2: to make some money off of something, then the government's
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  Speaker 2: going to do it, and then people benefit from that.
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  Speaker 1: Continuing with doctor Ed Moore, our resident historian, and I
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  Speaker 1: know we're going to meander into the legacy the presidency
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  Speaker 1: of Andrew Jackson to get us there.
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  Speaker 2: Well. During the same time frame after the war of
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  Speaker 2: eighteen twelve. It was settled. Now we were going to
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  Speaker 2: stay a country. I mean, if the British had won
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  Speaker 2: the War of eighteen twelve, things would have been a
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  Speaker 2: lot different.
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  Speaker 1: They tried redecorating the White House in the Capitol, but
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  Speaker 1: it didn't go well.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's something burned up on them. We kept expanding,
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  Speaker 2: and then there was gold discovered in North Georgia, and
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  Speaker 2: the other things occurred that cause, hey, let's go there
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  Speaker 2: gold in North Georgia.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I didn't know about the gold rush of
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  Speaker 1: North Georgia.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah. And the Carolina is that whole region
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  Speaker 2: where Carolina's.
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  Speaker 1: In Georgia apple Achians.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, they discovered gold, so people got had to move in.
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  Speaker 2: There were other reasons for moving in, but we wanted land.
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  Speaker 2: We kept pushing west or westerly. Well, there were people
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  Speaker 2: that were living there that weren't real happy about this push,
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  Speaker 2: one of which was what they call the Red Stick tribe,
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  Speaker 2: which is the northern group of the Creek Indians. And
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  Speaker 2: then there were the southern group led by a guy
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  Speaker 2: named Nea Mouthlaw whose other name I think was William Weatherford.
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  Speaker 2: He was half breeds. I mean, there were a lot
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  Speaker 2: of mixed race people in charge of both sides at
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  Speaker 2: that point. And there was a battle up right around
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  Speaker 2: northwest of Auburn, Alabama, a major battle where the Upper
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  Speaker 2: Creeks the Red Sticks killed about four hundred settlers and
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  Speaker 2: that sort of put a torch on Okay, we got
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  Speaker 2: it the federal government. We need to send troops, we
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  Speaker 2: need to pay attention to what's going on here. And
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  Speaker 2: that's the beginning really of Andrew Jackson getting engaged. Now
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  Speaker 2: keep in mind that Jackson was from Tennessee. He's from
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  Speaker 2: the region, uneducated. Basically, he sat for law. He was
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  Speaker 2: head of the militia, the head of the Tennessee militia.
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  Speaker 2: So he was one that got called on to go
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  Speaker 2: down and.
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  Speaker 1: Had sent troops down.
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  Speaker 2: And after that area around on Auburn up there after
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  Speaker 2: that massacre, that didn't set well. So then they moved
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  Speaker 2: a little further down. There was a big settlement of
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  Speaker 2: the Lower Creeks and Upper Creeks sort of blending up
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  Speaker 2: around Mobile, about forty miles north of Mobile. They went
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  Speaker 2: in and ended up after a couple of major battles,
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  Speaker 2: And you got to keep in mind these battles didn't
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  Speaker 2: last for long. They were skirmishes sometimes though they were
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  Speaker 2: deadly skirmishes. And the one down by mobile, they're about
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  Speaker 2: one thousand warriors down there. We sent in enough troops
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  Speaker 2: and at the end of all of that, eight hundred
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  Speaker 2: warriors were dead, and we ended up moving That tribe
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  Speaker 2: or collection of tribes had to move four different times
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  Speaker 2: because of the pressure on them, and they ended up.
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  Speaker 2: The fourth place they ended up was right over here
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  Speaker 2: on Lake Makasuki, on the eastern shore of the Lake Makasuki.
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  Speaker 2: So they came east, Yeah, they came south and east.
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  Speaker 2: They moved down out of Alabama, moved down and got
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  Speaker 2: down into what now Jackson County, Andrew Jackson namesake down
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  Speaker 2: on the river. I always say, you got to picture
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  Speaker 2: what the world was like.
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  Speaker 1: Then you had the.
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  Speaker 2: Flint River coming down out of Georgia down into Alabama,
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  Speaker 2: and then you had the Chattahoochee River excuse me, backwards.
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  Speaker 2: I had them backward there, but the Chattoochee River come down,
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  Speaker 2: and where they met was where the Indians settled, where
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  Speaker 2: the Natives settled on the south shore. When the Northern
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  Speaker 2: Creeks got defeated, when the eight hundred of them dying,
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  Speaker 2: and we kind of took over. They seeded I think
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  Speaker 2: it was about eighty one thousand acres that said, okay,
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  Speaker 2: it's no longer ours. It's going to be the federal government,
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  Speaker 2: even though they didn't own it, but we took over
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  Speaker 2: for settlement. They moved down, moved down, moved down. They
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  Speaker 2: settled on the south shore the Flint River, which is
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  Speaker 2: now because of the apolectical of dam Is Lake Seminole
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  Speaker 2: in that region kind of just west of Bainbridge.
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  Speaker 1: Uh.
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  Speaker 2: They said to the government, we didn't see that land,
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  Speaker 2: we didn't sign that treaty. That was that tribe, not
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  Speaker 2: our tribe. And so they got a little bit stubborn,
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  Speaker 2: and we invaded and battled with them and pushed them
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  Speaker 2: further south again. So they ended up down in Spanish Florida.
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  Speaker 2: And that's when all hill broke loose.
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  Speaker 1: And we're back. Doctor had Moore a little more history.
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  Speaker 1: He just laughingly said to me, thank goodness, I'm not
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  Speaker 1: even on the bottom of my first page of notes.
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  Speaker 1: Oh well, part two will be coming next month.
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  Speaker 2: It's you know you're gonna start going down all these
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  Speaker 2: rabbit holes on this.
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  Speaker 1: Well, and you warned me ahead of time. And you
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  Speaker 1: also just pointed out, Andrew Jackson's one of the maybe
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  Speaker 1: the only president we've had that has real connections into Florida.
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  Speaker 2: He was actually a first governor of Florida. He was
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  Speaker 2: appointed military governor when yeah, and he is the reason.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, if you look back at it, John Quincy
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  Speaker 2: Adams's secretary of State, and I think we talked about
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  Speaker 2: this when we talked about him. Was the Adams Owners
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  Speaker 2: treaty that got Florida from Spain, and it was taken
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  Speaker 2: without a war or battle or whatever. But the fact
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  Speaker 2: that Andrew Jackson had taken a significant number of troops
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  Speaker 2: and done multiple incursions into Spanish Florida probably had a
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  Speaker 2: little bit to do with that. And the Quincy Adams
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  Speaker 2: when he wrote to the Spanish ambassador about because they
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  Speaker 2: were demanding demanding payment for Jackson intruding and basically Adams
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  Speaker 2: told Spain, too bad, you can't defend it. What are
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  Speaker 2: you going to do about it? You know, basically shut up,
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  Speaker 2: and they went, yeah, you're right. Spain was broke at
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  Speaker 2: the time. So that ended up because of Jackson's actions
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  Speaker 2: and willingness, and he was sent down here by Monroe
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  Speaker 2: because of the Port Scott massacre. The Scott massac or
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  Speaker 2: what they call which I'll get to if I get time.
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  Speaker 2: That happened actually in Florida. H it was atrocious. The
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  Speaker 2: natives killed, uh killed everybody except for seven people got away.
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  Speaker 2: And it was the boats that went down the Apalachicola
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  Speaker 2: River to get supplies to supply our our forts in
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  Speaker 2: southwest Georgia that in the they got attacked along the
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  Speaker 2: river by the native tribes and pretty much killed everybody.
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  Speaker 2: Seven people jumped in the river and swam to the
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  Speaker 2: other side and got away out of by the two
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  Speaker 2: hundred or something. I mean it was. It was deadly.
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  Speaker 2: They killed a lot of people, and that was used
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  Speaker 2: pr nowadays. When you watched the Fox News or whatever
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  Speaker 2: news you watch, you know they used these incidents to
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  Speaker 2: create outrage and then gives the government ability to go
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  Speaker 2: and to do something. Well, the Scott massacre that occurred
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  Speaker 2: along the river, there was talk about sitting and fired attitude.
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  Speaker 2: We're going to send them in. So Monroe sent Jackson
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  Speaker 2: further down into Florida and he went all around here.
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  Speaker 2: We ended up General Gaines served under Jackson. Jackson was
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  Speaker 2: like the supreme commander, and then he had four generals
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  Speaker 2: under him, one of who was Gaines, who Gainesville.
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  Speaker 1: Is named after.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, they went all the way down as far as
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  Speaker 2: the Swanee River and down in that, chasing native tribes.
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  Speaker 1: Was Jackson given the responsibility because he was good tactically
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  Speaker 1: or simply because he was there tactically?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, he was the hero of the
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: War of eighteen twelve, the Battle of New Orleans. Everybody's
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  Speaker 2: aware of that, and they did songs about it and whatever. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: he used that New Orleans really launch himself twenty years
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  Speaker 2: later or so, not quite but into the presidency.
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  Speaker 1: But you had to have the requisite skills to do
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  Speaker 1: the launch.
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  Speaker 2: He was a tactician. They called him Old Hickory because
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  Speaker 2: you know, he was rigid. The native tribes called him
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  Speaker 2: sharp Knife because that was their acknowledgment that this guy
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  Speaker 2: wasn't messing around. I mean when they killed eight hundred
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  Speaker 2: out of a thousand warriors of a tribe, yeah, showed
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  Speaker 2: that they were not messing around. But once the Scott
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  Speaker 2: messacre occurred right on that let's call a river, it
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  Speaker 2: was like open the door, get open the floodgates, let's
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  Speaker 2: go down into Florida and take Florida into pain and
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  Speaker 2: said it's okay, you can have it.
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  Speaker 1: That's basically no taking necessary. It was surrendered. It was
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  Speaker 1: basically surrendered. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we didn't pay a lot for money for Florida,
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  Speaker 2: not like the big Louisiana purchase or anything.
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  Speaker 1: Traded some tobacco, Yeah, gater skins, gater skins. Yeah, okay. Uh,
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  Speaker 1: that's where do you want to leave it before we
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  Speaker 1: pick up next next? What's important to know about this
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  Speaker 1: build up to his political aspect and.
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  Speaker 2: Andrew Jackson becoming a military hero in multiple settings. Uh,
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  Speaker 2: Andrew Jackson developed his attitude about the president he ended
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: up going in. When you talk, I think next time
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  Speaker 2: we'll talk about his presidency. His attitude he shaped, in
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: my view, he shaped the modern presidency. When he was president.
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  Speaker 1: Does he does he become interested politically without the experience
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  Speaker 1: of being the governor of the territory of Florida.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, which which was the impetus? It's hard to tell.
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  Speaker 1: Uh. He was.
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  Speaker 2: He was a hero that people of means wrapped themselves around.
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  Speaker 1: He was.
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  Speaker 2: He was a convenient candidate and and uh pulled the
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: health together, the Southern states together, and generated a lot
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: of sport. He was a populace. He was really the
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: first populace. Okay, he ran as the man of the
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: people and he was going to the spoil system and
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: all that he railed against that. He was so open
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: on that. He thought that we should just rotate federal offices,
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: all the bureaucracy, just rotate him because it wasn't really
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: hard to do. Anybody could do it, so we should
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: just rotate people in there. I mean, it was a
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: different world. You got to put yourself into the early
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds in America. What is as sophisticated as.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: It is now, Well, at least that's what we think.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: But the politics was always sophisticated.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Fascinating start to this saga, we didn't get very far.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Imagine that you walked in with what how many pages
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: of notes? I yeah, and you got through maybe one?
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I looked at him.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Doctor Ed Moore, a resident historian, will continue the Saga
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: of Old Hickory next month. Good to see you, Good
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: to see you two, doctor edmore with us a little
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: more history here on the Morning Show with Preston Scott M.