Latest / WoT Spoilers / The Tipsy Gelding & A Night in Hinderstap - The Gathering Storm chapters 27 & 28 - EP527

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The Tipsy Gelding & A Night in Hinderstap - The Gathering Storm chapters 27 & 28 - EP527 · WoT Spoilers

0:12
Speaker 1: This is the Weed of Time Spoilers plodcast. So I
0:23
Speaker 1: think we're feeling very nostalgic because this is, in some
0:26
Speaker 1: ways a very nostalgic chapter. This takes me back, right, Matt,
0:32
Speaker 1: did you like that segway? I thought that was pretty good.
0:34
Speaker 1: That was good. Yeah. This chapter really is about Matt
0:38
Speaker 1: going back to his roots with the band in and
0:43
Speaker 1: in in a town where something bad happens and he
0:46
Speaker 1: has to react and it's kind of silly, but like,
0:49
Speaker 1: I feel like this is really an effort to be like,
0:52
Speaker 1: this is how Matt should be written. And the dialogue
0:56
Speaker 1: is awful. The dialogue is so bad.
1:01
Speaker 2: I love the Hinderstap plot, but I need them to
1:06
Speaker 2: shut up. Just just have the plot, just do the
1:10
Speaker 2: action stuff and stop having commentaries.
1:13
Speaker 1: Right right, It's very Wayne. If you're familiar with the
1:17
Speaker 1: Wax and Wayne series by Brandon Sanderson. This is the
1:21
Speaker 1: dialogue here is one of the reasons why I think that,
1:24
Speaker 1: you know, he was essentially writing that character in this place,
1:29
Speaker 1: and that character exists in his head as someone who
1:31
Speaker 1: thinks they're funny and just isn't that funny but like
1:36
Speaker 1: still cracks themselves up.
1:38
Speaker 2: Which you know, I mean that is half of comedies.
1:40
Speaker 2: You should be like.
1:41
Speaker 1: Totally, totally, But Jordan always wrote more situational comedy, where
1:47
Speaker 1: the character found themselves in a situation that they you know,
1:50
Speaker 1: made them a hypocrite.
1:52
Speaker 2: Right, Like, yeah, no, it's a very different approach. It's
1:55
Speaker 2: so obvious this is being written under a different hand.
1:58
Speaker 2: And yet to your point about the nostalgia, the horror
2:03
Speaker 2: of this scene does feel very true to the roots
2:07
Speaker 2: of the horror that has always been here in this
2:09
Speaker 2: series exactly.
2:11
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, Like when we talk about early Eye of
2:13
Speaker 1: the World, like, there's a lot of horror in Early
2:16
Speaker 1: Eye of the World, and even in you know, the
2:19
Speaker 1: torture in the Great Hunt, right, there's some body horror
2:23
Speaker 1: in there. There's some pain, war like, there's just a
2:25
Speaker 1: lot of stuff going on in those early books that
2:28
Speaker 1: feels more horror. And then I feel like later we
2:30
Speaker 1: get a little more political and a little more power scally,
2:33
Speaker 1: and a little more you know, what can we do
2:35
Speaker 1: with the magic system and you know, how do we
2:38
Speaker 1: take over the world? Right, But like in the beginning,
2:42
Speaker 1: it's more like that you got cool bubbles of evil
2:45
Speaker 1: with the reflections and all that kind.
2:49
Speaker 2: Of stuff, Right, So, yeah, no, this is where everything is.
2:54
Speaker 2: It's bendy, right. It's not just a war sequence or
2:57
Speaker 2: a straight ahead duel. It's like the rules of reality
3:01
Speaker 2: themselves are bending and you don't know what's coming next.
3:03
Speaker 2: It feels like the introduction of Mergerral or intelligent ravens
3:08
Speaker 2: that are hunting people down right. It feels like the
3:11
Speaker 2: first time that Dark Counts show up, it's like, what
3:13
Speaker 2: are zombies doing here?
3:15
Speaker 1: We haven't zombies before Dark One zombies? Oh no, right,
3:19
Speaker 1: yeah no, And that's because we've neutralized all the The trollics
3:23
Speaker 1: are really I mean, who's been wo scared of a trollic? Right?
3:27
Speaker 1: They're just foot soldiers to be cut down by regular soldiers.
3:31
Speaker 2: I remember when I was first handed The Eye of
3:34
Speaker 2: the World by the boy I had a crush on
3:36
Speaker 2: my friend, and he was like, yeah, so the Trollics
3:39
Speaker 2: and the Mirror World are really really scary, but like
3:41
Speaker 2: in a couple of books, ran can just kill them all,
3:43
Speaker 2: so it's fine. And it's like, yeah, they are so
3:47
Speaker 2: so not scary. By now they're so not.
3:49
Speaker 1: Scary, and it's like, oh, oh no, the ravens are
3:53
Speaker 1: going to report on the giant armies moving around that
3:55
Speaker 1: have tons of spies in them. Who cares, right, Like,
3:58
Speaker 1: there's just there's no threat anymore, which is just it's
4:02
Speaker 1: kind of silly, So like, yeah, this, it's nice that
4:04
Speaker 1: they kind of had the goal. I'm still a threat, right,
4:06
Speaker 1: there's still the Foresacon are still a threat. There's some
4:08
Speaker 1: bigger threats out there, although I'd argue about the Forsaken,
4:11
Speaker 1: they're kind of barely a threat.
4:14
Speaker 2: They're ranked highly by the characters, so right, right, right,
4:17
Speaker 2: but yeah, exactly, it's like, oh, yeah, we know everything
4:19
Speaker 2: that the Dark One can throw at us, Like there's
4:21
Speaker 2: been multiple bugs erupting out of people, Like okay, all right,
4:24
Speaker 2: we know what's coming with zombies. We haven't had zombies.
4:27
Speaker 2: Zombies are new, and yet the horror feels consistent from
4:32
Speaker 2: like fifteen years ago with Jordan writing it.
4:35
Speaker 1: And of course I love the twist at the end
4:37
Speaker 1: where he takes the zombies and throws them at the
4:39
Speaker 1: bad guys and goes like which is always a cool yeah,
4:43
Speaker 1: always always a cool moment, even in zombie movies when
4:46
Speaker 1: you open up the gate and the bad guy realizes,
4:48
Speaker 1: oh shit, I'm surrounded by the zombies I created or.
4:50
Speaker 2: Whatever, you know, like yeah, zombie revenge is good.
4:53
Speaker 1: Zombie revenge is good.
4:55
Speaker 2: I really really like how the Hinders tap plot actually
4:58
Speaker 2: did get loops back in because it's very self can
5:00
Speaker 2: Like I kind of thought it was going to be
5:02
Speaker 2: just like a short story that he inserted into the
5:04
Speaker 2: world and like that was it. But to have him
5:07
Speaker 2: actually like bring back his own creation Sanderson, to have
5:11
Speaker 2: Sanderson bring back his own creation for a last battle maneuver,
5:15
Speaker 2: I was very, very satisfied by that.
5:17
Speaker 1: It was a good, good, you know, self referential moment
5:20
Speaker 1: where he sort of calls back to the beginning and
5:23
Speaker 1: like it's like a good good set on stage, right,
5:25
Speaker 1: you always want to do a call back, right exactly exactly.
5:29
Speaker 2: It was super super satisfying, And you know, there's also
5:33
Speaker 2: like this element of absurdism and groundhog day ness to
5:37
Speaker 2: it too, right of just like like, yes, there's the
5:40
Speaker 2: horror of the fight, but there's also just the weird
5:43
Speaker 2: existential absurdism of like you're not living the same day
5:48
Speaker 2: every day, right, You're living a new day every day,
5:51
Speaker 2: so it's not groundhog Day like that. But also you
5:54
Speaker 2: can't leave by any means, by any means, and that
5:59
Speaker 2: is like it's not funny, but it is existentially creepy
6:04
Speaker 2: in a very different way than the straight ahead zombie attack. Right,
6:07
Speaker 2: there's layers here. It's a complex horror.
6:10
Speaker 1: It's a roach motel. Right, you can check in, but
6:12
Speaker 1: you can ever leave. Yeah, welcome to the Hotel California, right, Like, Yeah,
6:18
Speaker 1: it's it's absolutely those places that it's a one it
6:22
Speaker 1: really is a one way trap, soule trap, right, Like
6:24
Speaker 1: your soul can get stuck there and then it sort
6:27
Speaker 1: of just keeps. It's like a record that's skipping.
6:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a yellow jacket trap.
6:32
Speaker 1: Yeah totally.
6:33
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, it is being stuck on a loop,
6:35
Speaker 2: and it's I mean, loops are one of the more
6:39
Speaker 2: horrifying things you can play with when it comes to
6:42
Speaker 2: whibbly wobbly timey. Whymy like, loops are creepy creepy in
6:46
Speaker 2: a good way. I don't generally go in for like horror,
6:48
Speaker 2: like body horror stuff, but I do like existential creepy,
6:50
Speaker 2: So loops are cool. I do like loops, but ooh, creepy.
6:53
Speaker 1: I miss the days when TV shows always had at
6:56
Speaker 1: least one episode that got stuck in a Groundhog Day loop, right, Like, hmm.
7:00
Speaker 2: Every TV show needs a weird looping episode, like that's
7:04
Speaker 2: that's just yeah, yeah, they're so good, they're so weird.
7:09
Speaker 2: And then and then you break it because it would
7:11
Speaker 2: get boring after a while narratively and you move on
7:14
Speaker 2: next episode.
7:15
Speaker 1: M But but what I like about it is that
7:17
Speaker 1: it creates this framework that then you can make changes
7:20
Speaker 1: within that framework, right, and then you know, it's exciting
7:24
Speaker 1: to see how the day evolves. It's sort of you
7:26
Speaker 1: get to play that what if game with your whole.
7:28
Speaker 2: Day, right, except these people don't, because they are living
7:33
Speaker 2: new days with progressively more damaged clothes and a town
7:38
Speaker 2: and more creeping exhaustion, and like they're actually not living
7:42
Speaker 2: in a loop with the exception of what happens at night,
7:46
Speaker 2: and that is a twist.
7:48
Speaker 1: So what would you do? How would you live your life?
7:50
Speaker 1: I feel like I would be like, all right, everybody,
7:53
Speaker 1: we're going to the town square before dark and taking
7:57
Speaker 1: off all our clothes, you know, and then like and
8:03
Speaker 1: then everybody just gets to kill each other in the
8:05
Speaker 1: town square. Nothing gets damaged. You all wake up in
8:08
Speaker 1: your beds and it's fine, and then you just like go.
8:11
Speaker 1: You know, if.
8:12
Speaker 2: You have literal memories of seeing all your neighbors naked.
8:20
Speaker 1: Hey, I live on the naked bike ride area. You
8:24
Speaker 1: think I haven't.
8:26
Speaker 2: That is an extremely Portland thing. I don't think the
8:29
Speaker 2: people of Hinderstap are quite that liberal and progressive. They
8:32
Speaker 2: seem a little more conservative.
8:36
Speaker 1: Come on the naked wagon ride, everyone gets behind their
8:39
Speaker 1: horses and just gills in sick k I never mind.
8:41
Speaker 2: Ye, no, I don't know. Oh, apparently there is also
8:48
Speaker 2: something similar in Seattle to Fremont Solstice period. Well that's
8:54
Speaker 2: not surprising to me, fellow west Coasty. Do you want
8:59
Speaker 2: to get this book?
9:01
Speaker 3: Yeah?
9:01
Speaker 1: I guess we should actually like read it. I mean,
9:03
Speaker 1: I feel like we're just because I feel like everybody
9:05
Speaker 1: kind of knows what Hinderstap is because it's such a
9:07
Speaker 1: memorable moment. It gets talked about so much that were like, oh, yeah, Hinderstap.
9:12
Speaker 1: So we're gonna try and do both Inderstap chapters. There's
9:14
Speaker 1: two of them. They're both pretty long, so let's yeah,
9:16
Speaker 1: let's dig into it.
9:17
Speaker 2: We're gonna starting with chapter twenty seven, The Tipsy Gelding
9:21
Speaker 2: with the Dice.
9:22
Speaker 1: Matt didn't escape the camp without the ICID. I of course,
9:26
Speaker 1: bloody women. He rode down the ancient stone roadway. No
9:30
Speaker 1: longer followed by the band, he was, however, accompanied by
9:34
Speaker 1: the three I sid E two orders, five soldiers, Tom
9:38
Speaker 1: on Us, a pack animal, and Tom at least Eludra,
9:42
Speaker 1: Ametha and Iginan hadn't insisted on coming. The group was
9:45
Speaker 1: too big as it was. The three needled pines guarded
9:49
Speaker 1: the road smelled the pine sap, and the air was
9:51
Speaker 1: melodramatic with the mountain Finch's calls. It was still several
9:55
Speaker 1: hours until sundown. He'd halted the band. Near noon. He
9:58
Speaker 1: rode slightly ahead of the clustered I said I in orders,
10:01
Speaker 1: after he'd refused Joline, horses and funds. They hadn't been allowed.
10:05
Speaker 1: They hadn't been about to let him win another point,
10:08
Speaker 1: not when they could force him to take them down
10:09
Speaker 1: to the village where they could spend at least one
10:11
Speaker 1: night and in with soft beds and warm baths. Don't
10:15
Speaker 1: think that's gonna happen.
10:18
Speaker 2: I mean they're gonna start to happen.
10:21
Speaker 1: And by the way, can you guess how many people
10:23
Speaker 1: total are coming down in the group?
10:26
Speaker 2: Thirteen thirteen? Yeah, because I think I know there's five
10:29
Speaker 2: red arms and there's a bunch of other people. So
10:31
Speaker 2: the only logical number is thirteen. There's no other numbers
10:35
Speaker 2: it would be.
10:36
Speaker 1: I was counting them up and I was like, the five, five, thirteen. Yep,
10:40
Speaker 1: that's thirteen including maths.
10:42
Speaker 2: H that's funny. So it's okay when our guys do it,
10:46
Speaker 2: not when they do it.
10:48
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's on purpose or if it
10:50
Speaker 1: was just a coincidence, but I feel like the five
10:52
Speaker 1: red arms was really there, just to you know, round
10:54
Speaker 1: it out to fifteen to thirteen.
10:56
Speaker 2: I mean, it could have been any number. Any small
10:59
Speaker 2: number of red arm would have worked. You could have
11:01
Speaker 2: done seven or three, like any number would have worked,
11:04
Speaker 2: all right. So yeah, they they go on down there,
11:07
Speaker 2: and Matt is clinging to the idea that he can
11:11
Speaker 2: have everything the way it was so hard throughout this
11:14
Speaker 2: whole thing. He's like, I've got the old coat. I'm
11:17
Speaker 2: gonna go dicing. I'm gonna like, everything's going to go
11:21
Speaker 2: back to the way it was.
11:22
Speaker 3: Right.
11:22
Speaker 2: It's this quest that so many of us humans have,
11:25
Speaker 2: is like I'm going to go back to the way
11:27
Speaker 2: things were. Just as soon as this week calms down,
11:29
Speaker 2: I'm going to go back to the way things were right, Like,
11:32
Speaker 2: this is a trap so many people fall into, to
11:35
Speaker 2: say nothing of certain political movements throughout time.
11:39
Speaker 1: Or paren right now, Jesus, oh.
11:41
Speaker 2: My god, we're paren Yeah. Absolutely, So Matt is really
11:45
Speaker 2: making a big deal about how he's doing this, and
11:48
Speaker 2: it just makes the irony of and now there's zombies
11:51
Speaker 2: all the more sweet. I don't need to go feel
11:53
Speaker 2: like we need to go through all the dialogue, but
11:55
Speaker 2: I just think it's funny how much he's like things
11:57
Speaker 2: are going to stay the same, and then we get
11:59
Speaker 2: zombes for the first time in the series.
12:02
Speaker 1: Like Tom pulls out the letter and they talk a
12:04
Speaker 1: little bit about how they're going to go save Moraine,
12:06
Speaker 1: and that's like on the list of things to do, right,
12:09
Speaker 1: but they're not quite ready yet. Sort of how that
12:12
Speaker 1: dialogue is. As they were writing down into the town.
12:15
Speaker 2: He wonders how Rand will react to Morain coming back,
12:18
Speaker 2: and I kind of wish that Rand reacted more dramatically
12:22
Speaker 2: than he did.
12:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yes.
12:26
Speaker 2: I mean, he's very happy to see her and he's
12:29
Speaker 2: nice to her, but you know, something a little more
12:31
Speaker 2: earth shattering than a hug would have been cool.
12:36
Speaker 1: Right that. Honestly, I think it would have been. As
12:39
Speaker 1: much as I do love using Tam to have him
12:43
Speaker 1: have his Veins of Gold moment, I think having Morain
12:47
Speaker 1: coming back would have been a more effective story wise,
12:51
Speaker 1: because she's the head of the list. Literally, if he
12:57
Speaker 1: can break the list and be like, oh, I maybe
13:00
Speaker 1: I'm mourning people who can come back. Maybe I'm mourning
13:03
Speaker 1: people who can live again and have these lives.
13:05
Speaker 2: And like, oh my god. Yes, the fact that she
13:08
Speaker 2: was the head of the list, that Hug should have
13:10
Speaker 2: counted the same as TAM's, right, Like magic Mom is
13:14
Speaker 2: the same as adopted Dad when it comes to like
13:17
Speaker 2: healing a really really deep crucial trauma in his psyche,
13:21
Speaker 2: like oh my god.
13:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, and seeing them together, I think that would have
13:26
Speaker 1: actually been good, like maybe confronting them together and being
13:29
Speaker 1: like kind of actually adopted dad and adopted mom, right
13:33
Speaker 1: because real dad and real mom are dead.
13:35
Speaker 2: Oh my god. And then Tam and Morane are like,
13:37
Speaker 2: who are you? Oh right, yeah we met at a.
13:39
Speaker 1: Bar once once. No, I mean, gosh, we all have
13:47
Speaker 1: to go back through this podcast and talk about all
13:48
Speaker 1: the ways we would rewrite these books, because we would
13:50
Speaker 1: have We've got Matt's plot totally rewritten already we've got,
13:55
Speaker 1: you know, certainly the rescue of Moraine leading to totally
13:58
Speaker 1: different things, you know, but a lot of it would
14:00
Speaker 1: be the same. Like we wouldn't like rewrite it, but
14:02
Speaker 1: like just like a few different cause and effects, a
14:05
Speaker 1: few different outcomes, And I think, well, I'm not saying
14:10
Speaker 1: I could improve it, but it'd be more inlign with
14:13
Speaker 1: my head canon.
14:14
Speaker 2: That's the beauty of head canon.
14:16
Speaker 1: Yeah. Ye.
14:18
Speaker 2: The other thing he thinks about in this whole going
14:20
Speaker 2: to rescue Marine plot is is land Fear going to
14:24
Speaker 2: be in there or not? Right, Lanfear might actually be
14:29
Speaker 2: in there, huh, which, like we know that she's not.
14:33
Speaker 1: That's a good point, right, because if Moraine survived, you know,
14:36
Speaker 1: if Marine's survived going through, then it's entirely possible Landfear did.
14:39
Speaker 1: And if Moraen can't get back, it's entirely possible Landfear
14:41
Speaker 1: couldn't get back, And like, yeah, there's there's no reason
14:44
Speaker 1: to think that he's not going in there to face
14:46
Speaker 1: a forsaken.
14:47
Speaker 2: Do you think he would have rescued her as well
14:50
Speaker 2: if she had tried to make herself part of the
14:52
Speaker 2: party somehow if she, I mean, Moraine's not even conscious
14:55
Speaker 2: for the whole rescue. So I don't know how that
14:56
Speaker 2: would work, but just imagine that somehow Landfeir was there
14:59
Speaker 2: and was like, Nope, please get me out of here.
15:01
Speaker 2: How do you think rant, How do you think Matt
15:03
Speaker 2: would react? You think you'd take her?
15:05
Speaker 1: Yeah?
15:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
15:07
Speaker 1: Have you got some sort of oath or secured her,
15:09
Speaker 1: you know, maybe put like the medallion around her neck
15:12
Speaker 1: that keeps her from channeling type situation? Right, Like, but yeah, yeah,
15:16
Speaker 1: I think you would have to honestly, like his character
15:19
Speaker 1: would not leave her behind.
15:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Matt's code would. Yeah. And of course we
15:23
Speaker 2: as the audience know that she's not there to be rescued,
15:27
Speaker 2: right because we've seen Sindane and like, I mean, she's
15:30
Speaker 2: old news at this point. The whole Sinday situation is
15:32
Speaker 2: old old news.
15:33
Speaker 1: Was just something else. I wish I'd seen more consequences
15:36
Speaker 1: for like land Fear's out and doing stuff again that
15:39
Speaker 1: seems like it's going to be so well, And then
15:41
Speaker 1: I guess there is quite a bit in the last
15:42
Speaker 1: book with paren and land Fear.
15:44
Speaker 2: Yeah he tried. I think that the idea is to
15:47
Speaker 2: try to make Mordan's plot interesting by having him like
15:50
Speaker 2: controlling the other forsake in more directly, but I don't
15:53
Speaker 2: think yeah, yeah, I don't think. I don't think it works.
15:55
Speaker 2: And then yeah, deploying her at Rand in the last
15:58
Speaker 2: battle in the dream with Paran the way I mean
16:01
Speaker 2: that worked. It made her interesting, It made paren feel
16:05
Speaker 2: a little bit at loose ends sometimes plot wise, but
16:08
Speaker 2: like it made sense for her to have that role
16:11
Speaker 2: to play. But anyway, she's not trapped in there, so
16:14
Speaker 2: Matt doesn't have to worry about it. It's another one of
16:16
Speaker 2: those Brandon Sanderson, Oh oh, look, Brandon Sanderson has has
16:21
Speaker 2: a character being kind of wrong because he's wondering if
16:24
Speaker 2: Lan for he's in there and we know she's not.
16:26
Speaker 1: Oh hey, good job.
16:27
Speaker 2: It's almost making the character because he's just wondering. He's
16:30
Speaker 2: not a sert, he's just wondering. But it's almost having
16:33
Speaker 2: a character be wrong.
16:36
Speaker 1: And then there's just a bunch of yeah, these statements
16:38
Speaker 1: that are like talking about old times, right, you plan
16:42
Speaker 1: to try juggling for your supper again, Apprentice, better than
16:44
Speaker 1: trying to play that blasted flute. Rand was a friend,
16:48
Speaker 1: but Matt didn't mean to be there when Ran went insane,
16:50
Speaker 1: and killed everyone he knew, and all these things are
16:52
Speaker 1: just like, Okay, this is this is where I talk
16:55
Speaker 1: about like it feels like Sanderson is rewriting early Matt
16:58
Speaker 1: rather than advancing his character.
17:00
Speaker 2: It's very early great Hunt Matt.
17:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you can try and explain that, like Matt's
17:05
Speaker 1: trying to get back to his roots. He wants he's
17:08
Speaker 1: like kind of wants to go into a town and
17:10
Speaker 1: explore like the old just do some dicing and have
17:13
Speaker 1: a really simple night. But it's like Matt's mature beyond that.
17:16
Speaker 2: I mean, he's still got really really stuck in the
17:19
Speaker 2: mud attitudes about channeling. We have seen him make very
17:22
Speaker 2: little progress on that throughout the books, So I guess,
17:26
Speaker 2: but yeah, I don't. It's hard for me to believe
17:30
Speaker 2: that they were ever friends the way that he doesn't
17:33
Speaker 2: mourn Rand at all at this point. If he was
17:36
Speaker 2: going to return to that like book two thing, he
17:40
Speaker 2: should be kind of like thinking, well along the lines
17:43
Speaker 2: of like I miss Rand, because now he's not there anymore.
17:47
Speaker 2: He's just this madman I have to avoid instead of saying, oh,
17:50
Speaker 2: Rand is a friend, but you know he's also insane,
17:52
Speaker 2: Like I don't are any friends Matt that doesn't feel friendly.
17:57
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just I don't believes that they
18:00
Speaker 2: were friends the way that he doesn't miss Rand.
18:03
Speaker 1: No, and they never really come back together as friends, right, No.
18:07
Speaker 2: They have that one awful conversation that we're all memory holing,
18:10
Speaker 2: and like that's it.
18:12
Speaker 1: And then Matt kind of ends up leading a lane
18:15
Speaker 1: comes to him and says, I need you to lead
18:17
Speaker 1: the armies. It's not even Rand who says it to him, right, So, yeah, we've.
18:22
Speaker 2: Also got a timestamp saying that Rand lost his hand
18:26
Speaker 2: a few weeks ago, according to the visions that Matt
18:28
Speaker 2: is seeing. So just for purposes of tracking where the
18:32
Speaker 2: boys are with respect to each other, this is about
18:34
Speaker 2: three weeks after Samarag got captured and all that.
18:38
Speaker 1: Which is what a couple of weeks after Floor Beans? Right, Like,
18:42
Speaker 1: how long was she in captivity right before floor Beans?
18:44
Speaker 2: Yeah? Maybe a week, maybe not even a week. Yeah,
18:48
Speaker 2: I think she's probably dead within a rand Land week
18:50
Speaker 2: between losing the hand and then the last that could
18:54
Speaker 2: be done. So yeah, at this point Samarag is dead.
18:56
Speaker 2: Rand is like, and I mean, as Matt describes, Rand
18:59
Speaker 2: is like looks nearly dead and it's just totally gone.
19:03
Speaker 2: So he is deep in his darthiness or his beyond
19:06
Speaker 2: darthiness that we still haven't classified a name for sifness.
19:10
Speaker 1: I don't know, before you was we got to switch franchise, okay,
19:17
Speaker 1: switch hmm, yeah, I got nothing.
19:20
Speaker 2: Hold on Yeah, I don't know, I don't know.
19:35
Speaker 1: Yeah.
19:35
Speaker 2: So then we get Tom telling us about this old
19:38
Speaker 2: song that's all esoteric and wheel of time weaves as
19:41
Speaker 2: it wills because the area is super old and Matt
19:45
Speaker 2: has memories about the area, and it's just a cool like, oh,
19:50
Speaker 2: this road was here before the breaking, literally and just
19:53
Speaker 2: that the again showing us that post apocalyptic sort of
19:56
Speaker 2: world building, which is nice and pleasant. It's so hard
20:00
Speaker 2: for me to imagine that something like a road survived
20:03
Speaker 2: the breaking, you know, I think of it as just
20:05
Speaker 2: such a geologic cataclysm. But like here's proof in the text, Like, no,
20:09
Speaker 2: there are weird pockets of things that are just still
20:12
Speaker 2: the way they were from before.
20:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, or things that got picked up and moved wholesale
20:18
Speaker 1: without being broken. Right, there's chunks that like got moved,
20:23
Speaker 1: and like, you know, I can imagine if you create
20:26
Speaker 1: some sort of gateway dome, you could somehow transport a
20:31
Speaker 1: whole area. You know, I don't know who knows what
20:34
Speaker 1: the crazy is said Eye of the Age of the
20:36
Speaker 1: Legends could do with their gateways and stuff, right.
20:38
Speaker 2: Right, or like how solid stuff was built because it
20:41
Speaker 2: was reinforced with the power and thus could withstand the breaking.
20:44
Speaker 2: Right maybe it was like reinforced with the power, and
20:47
Speaker 2: so it was like, eh, geology, earthquakes, whatever, it's fine.
20:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, I five doing an antarctica, right, Like it's.
20:56
Speaker 2: Just why is there a glacier in downtown Portland?
20:59
Speaker 1: Right? The breaking did crazy things and it was crazy
21:03
Speaker 1: magic things, right that, Like, yes, I don't know, just
21:06
Speaker 1: imagine you can do things like take off the pressure
21:09
Speaker 1: of protections on a portal so that like you know,
21:12
Speaker 1: I guess the same thing Androl did, but like do
21:14
Speaker 1: that with a notion.
21:16
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, totally. So then we've got Matt and Tom
21:19
Speaker 2: sort of doing camaraderie. I guess I don't hate it
21:24
Speaker 2: as much as Matt and Tom on is talking, but
21:26
Speaker 2: I don't like it particularly. But yeah, Tom's basically like
21:30
Speaker 2: I'm old and decrepit, and that's like I need you
21:33
Speaker 2: desperately in order to make plot armor stay solid. And
21:36
Speaker 2: then you know, the subsequent chapter proves that that is necessary.
21:39
Speaker 2: That Tom is part of Matt's plot armor and so
21:42
Speaker 2: that's nice.
21:43
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm Tom's a very a depth warrior who's
21:47
Speaker 1: astute and can throw knives very accurately, like and a
21:50
Speaker 1: throw a knife in this world is you know, instantly deadly.
21:54
Speaker 1: So that's cool.
21:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, we love that. We love that. Yeah, there's some
21:59
Speaker 2: stuff about being convinced that he is going to help
22:02
Speaker 2: with the escape and that he's going to crack the
22:04
Speaker 2: code of playing Snakes and Foxes, which we know in
22:08
Speaker 2: a way he does and he will and he can
22:12
Speaker 2: the severeness.
22:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, like he beats the game at the same time
22:15
Speaker 1: Matt beats the snakes and the foxes, and like you
22:18
Speaker 1: want to argue that the horn blows, Like I feel
22:21
Speaker 1: like there's some link between them because they're both blown
22:23
Speaker 1: the horn until the blown the horn of lear.
22:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's something I.
22:30
Speaker 1: Guess at that point he hasn't but like there's something
22:32
Speaker 1: there right that, like.
22:34
Speaker 2: Time is a puddle, right, And I mean Oliver is
22:38
Speaker 2: growing up in well within the halo of Matt's tevereness,
22:43
Speaker 2: trying to emulate Matt interacting with the people that Matt
22:46
Speaker 2: interacts with being part of his world, striving to be
22:52
Speaker 2: part of Matt's thread, and like then he's tied to
22:56
Speaker 2: the game as it happens, and then he blows the horn,
23:00
Speaker 2: Like no, there's there's an echoing resonance between these two
23:03
Speaker 2: souls for sure.
23:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is interesting that that's not something that's really
23:06
Speaker 1: gotten into. Like I feel like, I mean, I love
23:08
Speaker 1: that Oliver's purpose in the story is to be the
23:11
Speaker 1: horn blower, right, because it always felt like wrong that
23:13
Speaker 1: Matt was the horn blower right, Like that always felt like
23:16
Speaker 1: something he did kind of early, like it was he
23:19
Speaker 1: was able to do it because of his luck and stuff.
23:21
Speaker 1: But it's like he shouldn't be the hornblower for the
23:23
Speaker 1: last battle. That never made sense for him as his role.
23:25
Speaker 1: So I love that that became Oliver, right, But like
23:29
Speaker 1: I would have loved to see more well you know future,
23:33
Speaker 1: I guess.
23:34
Speaker 2: Yeah stuff, yeah, so say we all and like and
23:40
Speaker 2: also I want to point out like he's not Tevere
23:42
Speaker 2: and for being Guidlekine, because we know he's not Guidlekine,
23:45
Speaker 2: but like this is the kind of energy that makes
23:48
Speaker 2: one strive in a way that you know, you could,
23:52
Speaker 2: you could be a hero. Like he's got that drive,
23:54
Speaker 2: and the pattern clearly is willing to tie him to
23:57
Speaker 2: Matt's battle in the Tower.
23:58
Speaker 1: So he's got I mean, the whole thing is like
24:02
Speaker 1: he's got this quest to find the person who killed
24:04
Speaker 1: his father, so he's got drive to learn how to
24:05
Speaker 1: use all these weapons. He's with the Band of the
24:07
Speaker 1: Red Hand, which are the best fighters in the world
24:10
Speaker 1: by far, in almost all the different weapons. Because there's
24:13
Speaker 1: all these different nationalities. They've got Matt's luck, his best
24:17
Speaker 1: friend with multiple heroes of the Horn, Berkita and Nol
24:22
Speaker 1: and Matt. Really at this point, you know, like because
24:25
Speaker 1: Matt's certainly a hero of something if he's not a
24:27
Speaker 1: Hero of the Horn, and he's just spent his whole
24:30
Speaker 1: life learning from these people and getting himself in and
24:33
Speaker 1: out of crazy dangerous situations, and it's like, okay, yeah,
24:37
Speaker 1: his story going forward is not going to be sitting
24:39
Speaker 1: at home being a you know, tinker right now.
24:42
Speaker 2: He's not going to pull a loyal and try to
24:44
Speaker 2: write a book about it. Like he's going to go
24:46
Speaker 2: out there and be the adventurer. Obviously, he might write
24:50
Speaker 2: a book someday because he does look up to Jane Forrestretter,
24:53
Speaker 2: but like that'll be when he's an old man and
24:56
Speaker 2: can't walk properly.
24:57
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, here's my theory. Oliver becomes Conan the Barbarian
25:02
Speaker 1: in all the books that Robert Jordan Wright wrote, and
25:06
Speaker 1: so you can read those books as Oliver going on
25:09
Speaker 1: to being the adventure renamed, and this is the legend
25:14
Speaker 1: that faded into the myth of Conan the Barbarian.
25:18
Speaker 2: I am so down for this, and you just read.
25:22
Speaker 1: Those Robert Jordan books, is the sequels, and just that
25:25
Speaker 1: weird because like there is a lot of similarities in
25:28
Speaker 1: the magic fantasy world of Conan, right the Barbarian. Like
25:36
Speaker 1: there's the whole there's like magic and there's people fighting
25:39
Speaker 1: with swords, and like it's much rougher, and it's much
25:42
Speaker 1: more misogynistic. Dated dated, we'll call it data. It's much
25:49
Speaker 1: more dated. But I do feel like, you know, there's
25:51
Speaker 1: anyway that's we can keep going.
25:54
Speaker 2: I've never actually read those books, but I'm fine with
25:57
Speaker 2: this head canon anyhow.
25:59
Speaker 1: You know, they weren't original world, right.
26:02
Speaker 2: But like right, right, yeah, he was writing in in
26:06
Speaker 2: someone else's thing was he was not yet our Robert Jordan.
26:10
Speaker 1: Having looked into it, it's you universally agreed that Robert
26:13
Speaker 1: Jordan's Cone books are probably the best of the Conan books,
26:16
Speaker 1: which doesn't see that.
26:17
Speaker 2: That's a surprisory Yeah. Yeah, how many people worked on those?
26:21
Speaker 1: I want to say three or four at least, right, Yeah,
26:24
Speaker 1: I feel like Cone, like I feel like there was
26:26
Speaker 1: like the original creator and then Jordan, and then like
26:30
Speaker 1: one or two more that came after him, who also
26:32
Speaker 1: continued to write books as they, you know, declined in quality.
26:36
Speaker 1: But I am known by my you know, I've looked
26:38
Speaker 1: that up. It's been a while. Someone I was gifted
26:41
Speaker 1: the books, and I wish I could remember which one
26:43
Speaker 1: of our wonderful listeners gifted me the Conan books, but
26:46
Speaker 1: I don't off the top of my head. So I
26:48
Speaker 1: got to read through them and kind of research their
26:51
Speaker 1: relevance cool to the series, because I was like, you know,
26:54
Speaker 1: I've never read them. I probably should with as much
26:56
Speaker 1: Robert Jordan as I am dedicated to reading.
26:58
Speaker 2: That's a little Cone in the Barbarian on the on
27:01
Speaker 2: the side right.
27:02
Speaker 1: Right well, and that and that also it happened around
27:05
Speaker 1: the time that we were of the All Tie came
27:07
Speaker 1: out as Adam, right, and so I read through that,
27:10
Speaker 1: and you can really see we're the all tie as
27:13
Speaker 1: being the bridge work between Conan and the Barbarian and
27:18
Speaker 1: Wheel of Time right, And you can really see how
27:20
Speaker 1: the reading that is something that sits squarely in between
27:24
Speaker 1: those two intellectual properties, with pieces of both woven together,
27:28
Speaker 1: you can see how we got from Conan to randolphor
27:32
Speaker 1: legends stay too smooth. Yeah, there really is this. There's
27:35
Speaker 1: a connective thread between the two of those. And then
27:38
Speaker 1: you basically take Conan and and press all the legends,
27:41
Speaker 1: Arthurian legends on top of him and give him, you know,
27:44
Speaker 1: a cast of characters that are from the Arthurian legend,
27:48
Speaker 1: and you have Camlin and then and then you add
27:49
Speaker 1: on top of that, you know, Jesus a few other
27:52
Speaker 1: stories that you want to tell with the other boys
27:55
Speaker 1: from his village, and all of a sudden you have
27:57
Speaker 1: Wheel of Time.
27:58
Speaker 2: I like it all right. So back to a sheep town.
28:02
Speaker 2: They export mutton and cheese, and so Matt's like, surely
28:06
Speaker 2: I can provision my army here, and they're like, if
28:09
Speaker 2: you have fabric, we will give you enough food for
28:11
Speaker 2: your party of thirteen and that it's not the barker
28:16
Speaker 2: and I was looking for. Also, why do you need
28:17
Speaker 2: fabric you have a bunch of wool your sheep farmers
28:21
Speaker 2: confusing and he.
28:23
Speaker 1: Sees everyone has like stitched off all their clothings, but
28:25
Speaker 1: like stitched up they're like repaired, Yeah, very neatly, as
28:28
Speaker 1: if someone's been stabbed or cut or torn multiple times.
28:32
Speaker 1: Like this is why, Like I would I feel like
28:34
Speaker 1: i'd go to bed naked, right, Like, at least go
28:37
Speaker 1: to bed naked. Don't be wearing your clothes to bed, right,
28:40
Speaker 1: what the hell?
28:40
Speaker 2: Or don't like right, Like, it's clearly your clothes are destroyed.
28:43
Speaker 2: Even if you don't know what happened, your clothes are destroyed,
28:46
Speaker 2: you can make some logical leaps about what maybe you
28:50
Speaker 2: should be doing with your textiles after the sun goes
28:52
Speaker 2: down or before the sun goes down, as it were.
28:55
Speaker 1: I also wonder if anyone would ever just chain themselves
28:57
Speaker 1: up to their bed every night and just like to
29:00
Speaker 1: prevent themselves from tearing through the house and destroying things.
29:04
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, like you could just lie on the bed
29:06
Speaker 2: all night just doing the like endless struggle until things
29:10
Speaker 2: reset in the morning, and like, yeah, you wouldn't be damaged,
29:13
Speaker 2: You'd be fine.
29:14
Speaker 1: I also always wonder in these situations, what if you
29:17
Speaker 1: like had a hangover on the morning you got reset.
29:21
Speaker 1: Would you always have to hangover?
29:22
Speaker 2: Oh that'd be so cool, that'd be awful.
29:27
Speaker 1: Like are you stuck? Because they're obviously resetting to some
29:31
Speaker 1: logical set point, but like, is that how they were
29:34
Speaker 1: that one that one day all those months ago, or did.
29:38
Speaker 2: They get set back to some sort of factory standard?
29:41
Speaker 1: Right? Right, there's so many experiments i'd want to do.
29:45
Speaker 2: It's a bubble of evil. So I'm going to assume
29:48
Speaker 2: the bleakest outcome, which is that, yes, there is one
29:50
Speaker 2: guy who has a perpetual.
29:51
Speaker 4: Hangover, Like, ah, not again, right, Yeah, I didn't even
29:58
Speaker 4: drink last night.
29:59
Speaker 1: Well you know he's at the bar drinking then, because
30:01
Speaker 1: he's like, well I'm gonna go have the hangover him.
30:02
Speaker 1: He's gonna get dr care of the dog is the.
30:04
Speaker 2: Only way to deal with that happens, all right, And
30:09
Speaker 2: then we start arguing about the curfew because it's dumb
30:15
Speaker 2: and makes no economic sense, you know, like the whole
30:18
Speaker 2: thing about the the inns are compensated, Well, they're compensated
30:21
Speaker 2: with not having an endless array of new people dying
30:24
Speaker 2: and getting shoved into their spare beds forever. That's how
30:27
Speaker 2: the ends are being compensated.
30:29
Speaker 1: Also, people are living there, right, So I would assume
30:31
Speaker 1: that maybe there's just like attacks and it's like, well,
30:33
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna all pay to keep the endgoing, right.
30:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a weird apocalypse situation. We're just gonna kind
30:40
Speaker 2: of pull together and take care of our neighbors because
30:42
Speaker 2: we don't know what the fuck else to do with
30:44
Speaker 2: this point, because yeah, it's it's happening to all of them.
30:48
Speaker 2: It's regular economic calculus is not in these people's heads
30:53
Speaker 2: at this point. Now, they're just trying to survive until
30:55
Speaker 2: the dragon can like fix the world, you know.
30:58
Speaker 1: And our group splits into the it's I said die
31:01
Speaker 1: and a couple of soldiers and their warders go one direction.
31:04
Speaker 1: Tom goes off on his own, and then Matt and
31:07
Speaker 1: Telmutmanis and this one or two other soldiers, two other soldiers.
31:11
Speaker 1: Two other soldiers come with him, So it's four to
31:13
Speaker 1: one and leaves like eight.
31:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Pats, we don't know, but I'm pretty sure they're.
31:22
Speaker 1: My head canon. Right, So they come back on the
31:24
Speaker 1: morning of the final battle, right, and they go through
31:28
Speaker 1: that second fight, and I think anyone who dies right
31:31
Speaker 1: that day, the Dark One is encapsulated and the world
31:34
Speaker 1: goes back to normal, So the bubble of evil ends.
31:37
Speaker 1: So if they don't have a chance to come back
31:39
Speaker 1: to life after the last battle, so if they die
31:41
Speaker 1: in the last battle, I think they're dead right that
31:43
Speaker 1: second time.
31:44
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I would agree. Any of them that don't
31:47
Speaker 2: make it through the battle stay dead, and then everyone
31:51
Speaker 2: who does make it through the battle gets a weird
31:53
Speaker 2: second lease on life because reasons, or they all drop dead.
31:58
Speaker 1: Either way, I'm assuming that they they're they're alive at
32:01
Speaker 1: that moment, and they essentially every morning they're living in
32:04
Speaker 1: normal life, and it's just this like thing that happens
32:07
Speaker 1: at dark that gets them to make them go crazy,
32:11
Speaker 1: and the reset happens. There's a there's a line here
32:13
Speaker 1: where Tom actually has a line that I think describes
32:15
Speaker 1: it really well.
32:17
Speaker 2: So yeah, then we spent a bunch of page work
32:19
Speaker 2: talking about how clever Matt is at finding dive bars
32:23
Speaker 2: and interacting with people at dive bars, and Tom is is,
32:28
Speaker 2: you know, his rich boyfriend that puts up with it.
32:30
Speaker 2: Because he likes Matt.
32:32
Speaker 1: So come on, I want to go to a nice
32:34
Speaker 1: place where we dress. No, we're going to this s
32:38
Speaker 1: gungey bar. I got my friends there. I'll make some money,
32:40
Speaker 1: all right, it's one last time, exact God, Yeah, Talanas
32:46
Speaker 1: is fancy. I go to the micro brewery.
32:50
Speaker 2: Love to is like, I'll go to the dive bar,
32:52
Speaker 2: but I will be complaining the entire time. Energy. Yeah,
32:56
Speaker 2: he's He's definitely a microbrewery person. I as a micro brewer,
33:00
Speaker 2: I can tell you Tomnis is a micro brewery verson.
33:04
Speaker 2: Thanks Fitzpan exactly exactly. I'll go there, but they better
33:08
Speaker 2: have to shoot. So if they don't at least have
33:10
Speaker 2: fat tire on tap, We're leaving a couple.
33:12
Speaker 1: More statements about the clothing being torn and patched.
33:16
Speaker 2: And then yeah, Matt rolls up to a dice game
33:18
Speaker 2: and is like, let me do absolutely ridiculous diceery because
33:23
Speaker 2: clearly I'm just a tech bro that likes to spend
33:25
Speaker 2: money for some reason.
33:27
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. Yeah, So he bets gold against silver, which
33:30
Speaker 1: is always ridiculous.
33:32
Speaker 2: Like, and then he they start accumulating his gold because
33:35
Speaker 2: he wants his luck to have him lose, which makes
33:37
Speaker 2: Tomanes freak out for a bit, but like Matt wants
33:40
Speaker 2: to lose, and pretty soon they have gold to then
33:43
Speaker 2: bet against his gold and then he can escalate the bets.
33:46
Speaker 1: Faster, right, which I mean it at this point, that
33:50
Speaker 1: does make sense for his powers to get to this
33:51
Speaker 1: point where he can control his luck a little bit. Right.
33:54
Speaker 1: He's he's stated a few times, I figured out how
33:56
Speaker 1: to lose when I need to. Right, He's figured out that,
33:59
Speaker 1: like sometimes winning in life means losing it gambling.
34:03
Speaker 2: Right, we saw that with two on at the hell.
34:05
Speaker 2: He very specifically was like, that was a loss that
34:08
Speaker 2: I wanted so badly that it happened.
34:10
Speaker 1: And so now he's like kind of has conscious control
34:13
Speaker 1: over that, and he's using it here.
34:15
Speaker 2: Right, and til Monus gets over it, Like after a while,
34:16
Speaker 2: he's like, whatever, you can lose your money as long
34:18
Speaker 2: as you keep buying your drinks, It's fine. I don't care.
34:21
Speaker 2: Which I'm just like, again, this boyfriend is so tolerant,
34:24
Speaker 2: as long as you're not risking my pay right exactly,
34:29
Speaker 2: Like it's yours, it's your money, as long as you're
34:31
Speaker 2: in your budget, I don't care, honey.
34:36
Speaker 1: And he's you know, inverting it, and he has to
34:38
Speaker 1: win a few tosses, just like he used to when
34:40
Speaker 1: he's so that when he's losing it's not suspicious, just
34:44
Speaker 1: like when he's winning. He has to lose a few tosses, right, and.
34:47
Speaker 2: Then it becomes a whole spectacle. Right. People are rushing
34:50
Speaker 2: to the end, they're getting their friends. It's becoming like
34:52
Speaker 2: a giant circus in this common room. And the mayor
34:56
Speaker 2: comes by it and is like, I don't like the
34:58
Speaker 2: look of this. This is because a problem.
35:03
Speaker 1: And I love how like it's this giant spectacle where
35:06
Speaker 1: everyone's trying to get you know, Matt out and leave
35:09
Speaker 1: the town, and he has all this resistance and he
35:12
Speaker 1: basically seduces the whole town in order to keep him
35:15
Speaker 1: there after dark. Meanwhile, the I said, I have the
35:17
Speaker 1: same amount of stubbornness from no, we're not getting out
35:20
Speaker 1: of our bath.
35:22
Speaker 2: It's amazing, truly, the power of the bath for an isodie.
35:28
Speaker 1: No, no, no, you can't get us out of the bath.
35:30
Speaker 1: But like you may be murdered. Yeah, now we're good.
35:35
Speaker 2: We'll be murdered in your bath. We're fine, We're fine.
35:38
Speaker 2: This is what country are we in? Are we in
35:41
Speaker 2: Altara still, Oh God, I have no I was about
35:46
Speaker 2: to say Altar and Psycho because getting murdered in the
35:50
Speaker 2: bathing chamber. If it's if it's not a country that
35:53
Speaker 2: starts with an A, then the joke doesn't work. I
35:55
Speaker 2: think we're into mirroranding now because that was the whole
35:57
Speaker 2: thing with the battle to get through the mountains.
36:00
Speaker 1: Right right, And they're very quickly going to run into variance,
36:02
Speaker 1: so it doesn't matter where they are because they're going
36:04
Speaker 1: to get teleported to where they need to be, right.
36:05
Speaker 2: I just needed the alliteration for the joke.
36:08
Speaker 1: We'll then use it, use it, and move on if
36:10
Speaker 1: it's wrong.
36:11
Speaker 2: It's al Tarniche. I've ever even seen that movie. I
36:15
Speaker 2: just know it's like position in society in our cultural language.
36:21
Speaker 1: So yeah, he's bending the rules by getting them all
36:23
Speaker 1: excited about the money they're going to win. And when
36:26
Speaker 1: he finally goes like hey, one last toss, and like, well,
36:29
Speaker 1: you got nothing left, he's like, I've got all the
36:32
Speaker 1: gold the chest. I've got the chest of gold, which
36:34
Speaker 1: does kind of go outside the budget, right.
36:37
Speaker 2: Right, right, But it's more than the amount of money
36:40
Speaker 2: that they've lost that they've won from him, and that's
36:43
Speaker 2: how he's able to say, well, now you need to
36:45
Speaker 2: collect me up enough food stuffs to make up the difference,
36:48
Speaker 2: and they're like, we can totally do that in twenty minutes.
36:50
Speaker 2: And Barlton is you know, the dad of the proskept
36:54
Speaker 2: being like, you absolutely cannot clean your room and do
36:57
Speaker 2: your homework in twenty minutes and be on time for school,
37:00
Speaker 2: Like that's not going to happen. But all the kids insist,
37:03
Speaker 2: I mean, all of the adult villagers who know what's
37:06
Speaker 2: going to happen insist, and Greed wins the day.
37:09
Speaker 1: M hmm. And Marldon does the whole I won't have
37:12
Speaker 1: you cheating us and does the kind of clever thing
37:14
Speaker 1: of saying I'm going to roll the dice as though
37:16
Speaker 1: i'm you, because that way you're not touching the dice.
37:19
Speaker 1: And he also he grabbed the dice that had a
37:21
Speaker 1: losing toss, so if they were weighted losing dice, they
37:24
Speaker 1: would have another losing toss.
37:26
Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah, And he like rolls them a few
37:28
Speaker 2: times and keeps getting the same losing toss.
37:30
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, this is great, Yeah, these are weighted
37:33
Speaker 1: for sure, I'm totally going to fuck you right.
37:35
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, And I mean his logic is good, right.
37:39
Speaker 2: I mean, he's doing a very like protective thing for
37:43
Speaker 2: his town, being like, no, I'm going to prevent the
37:45
Speaker 2: charlatan from doing his thing and hurting my people.
37:48
Speaker 1: Like it makes sense because Matt is a cheater, right,
37:51
Speaker 1: Like that's the whole thing. Matt's allays like, it's just
37:53
Speaker 1: my luck. But it's like you're acting like a cheater
37:56
Speaker 1: because you know what the outcome of the dice are
37:58
Speaker 1: going to be, and so you are as delating the
38:00
Speaker 1: bet until you can win it easily, right, And that's
38:04
Speaker 1: that's the mo of a cheater. And of course he's
38:07
Speaker 1: being called out by it, but there's he's cheating with
38:09
Speaker 1: the pattern itself. He's cheating reality, so there's no way
38:12
Speaker 1: for anyone to catch.
38:13
Speaker 2: Him, right, And like we've got Brandon Sanderson trying to
38:17
Speaker 2: make his you know, complex morality a little bit more
38:20
Speaker 2: overt here, being like, oh, Matt's trying to feel guilty,
38:22
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I don't know if I buy that,
38:25
Speaker 2: because he is he is the lokey Odin. I mean,
38:28
Speaker 2: he's Odin, and Odin doesn't really give a fuck about
38:31
Speaker 2: your morality.
38:33
Speaker 1: But Matt pays for the food, right he thinks about
38:36
Speaker 1: At the very end, he goes back and gives them
38:37
Speaker 1: enough money to cover the cost of the food, which
38:39
Speaker 1: is all he wanted to do in the first place,
38:41
Speaker 1: was buy the food off of them.
38:42
Speaker 2: Well exactly. And that's my point, is that Odin Loki
38:46
Speaker 2: the trickster, Matt doesn't need to feel guilty because he's
38:50
Speaker 2: following his own code. Fuck your code. He will follow
38:53
Speaker 2: his own damn code. He knows he's following his code.
38:56
Speaker 2: So I don't see why he needs to feel guilty here,
38:58
Speaker 2: except that Brandon Sanderson is, like, you know, a good
39:01
Speaker 2: little boy and needs to say that stealing is bad
39:05
Speaker 2: and cheating is bad. Even if it's okay, it's still bad,
39:09
Speaker 2: you know, Like I just I don't know that Matt
39:11
Speaker 2: needs to feel guilty here because.
39:13
Speaker 1: Where is he? Where is he feeling guilty? Or is
39:15
Speaker 1: he I missed that?
39:16
Speaker 2: Well, Matt would show him and all of them, he'd
39:19
Speaker 2: show them, show them what that he couldn't be beaten?
39:21
Speaker 2: What did that prove? As Matt waited, the cart piled
39:24
Speaker 2: higher and higher with food stuffs, and he began to
39:26
Speaker 2: feel a strange sense of guilt, And then he goes
39:30
Speaker 2: through essentially your argument, like there's no loaded dice, I'm
39:33
Speaker 2: betting fair, they're betting fair, like, except his luck makes
39:37
Speaker 2: it different and he's feeling guilty about his luck. And
39:40
Speaker 2: I just I don't know that that feels true to
39:42
Speaker 2: the character. I don't think it's necessary, but whatever, it's
39:47
Speaker 2: Sanderson needed to, you know, really put it on the
39:49
Speaker 2: page that this is morally complex at best, which is
39:53
Speaker 2: fine because like, there's there's a story I read a
39:56
Speaker 2: really long time ago. I can't remember who who wrote it,
40:01
Speaker 2: but I think it was called The Wonderful Story of
40:04
Speaker 2: Henry Sugar. I think it was a roll Doll story
40:07
Speaker 2: or someone else. Yeah, And it's the guy that he
40:12
Speaker 2: learns how to see through cards through a mentalist trick,
40:16
Speaker 2: and then he has this complete personality change because now
40:19
Speaker 2: he can win whatever card game he wants and it
40:22
Speaker 2: makes them all zen and it's really trippy. I'm paraphrasing
40:25
Speaker 2: a lot, but like there's something about being able to
40:30
Speaker 2: know the outcome of a gambling game that like really
40:34
Speaker 2: is an interesting mental exercise sandbox to put yourself in.
40:38
Speaker 1: HM. The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar and six more
40:41
Speaker 1: is a nineteen ninety seven short story collection by British
40:44
Speaker 1: author Ronald Dahl. Seven stories are generally regarded as being
40:47
Speaker 1: aimed a slightly older audience than many of Dahl's other
40:49
Speaker 1: children's novels. Yeah.
40:52
Speaker 2: I read it obsessively for like a year. It was
40:55
Speaker 2: a really trippy story. So yeah, it's just you know,
40:58
Speaker 2: the way Matt handles his luck and ambling is you know,
41:01
Speaker 2: another expression of that iteration of what happens when you
41:04
Speaker 2: know that you're gonna win. How does that change your
41:06
Speaker 2: behavior and your decisions with other people? And in this case,
41:10
Speaker 2: he's using it to defeat his army, which I think
41:12
Speaker 2: is super legit, like, yes, please keep your army fed.
41:16
Speaker 2: These are zombies. They'll be fine. I mean he doesn't
41:19
Speaker 2: know their zombies, but I know their zombies.
41:21
Speaker 1: And so he's given like one last chance, like Okay,
41:24
Speaker 1: it's time to go. We're out of time, and he's like, no,
41:26
Speaker 1: make the last throw. We are staying, and the dice
41:30
Speaker 1: in his head stop Yeah, yeah, which is yeah, I mean,
41:34
Speaker 1: I don't think we need to necessarily talk about the dice.
41:36
Speaker 1: Start at the beginning of this chapter. They stop here.
41:38
Speaker 1: It's you know, foreshadowing him going into their stap and
41:41
Speaker 1: getting you know, nearly killed.
41:43
Speaker 2: Truly, this feels like a short story writing exercise that
41:46
Speaker 2: he thought was so good he was going to keep
41:48
Speaker 2: it for the final book draft, and he just sort
41:50
Speaker 2: of like modularly plotted it in because it feels so
41:54
Speaker 2: self contained. You could almost take this out as alone,
41:57
Speaker 2: standalone short story and put it in an antholo and
42:00
Speaker 2: it would be fine.
42:02
Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like you could almost be like, oh, yeah,
42:04
Speaker 1: I remember that Hender's tap town. Yeah, those villagers came
42:06
Speaker 1: to life. You could have written it off like that
42:08
Speaker 1: and then had a cap pat in the final battle.
42:11
Speaker 1: But he wrote a whole two chapter long, two chapters
42:15
Speaker 1: actually short story.
42:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, because you know, it's part of probably
42:19
Speaker 2: how he built these books, was like, Okay, I can't
42:21
Speaker 2: write the whole book. I just have to write a
42:22
Speaker 2: scene at a time. I got to take it invites
42:25
Speaker 2: you know, sure has been contimidating again. This is the
42:28
Speaker 2: first book of him writing Wheel of Time. Like he
42:30
Speaker 2: was quaking in his boots through the whole first book
42:33
Speaker 2: in my opinion.
42:34
Speaker 1: But yeah, I spent this whole chapter being like, wait,
42:36
Speaker 1: why are the I said, I still in town? And
42:38
Speaker 1: then yeah, this still bathing the mother that says the
42:43
Speaker 1: Atlander woman aren't done bathing. She's trying to hurry them,
42:45
Speaker 1: but they won't get out of the bath. This thing
42:48
Speaker 1: is so funny. I think that's a little meta commentary
42:51
Speaker 1: there of just like the stubbornness of the ice of
42:53
Speaker 1: Eye and just how many baths are in this freaking book.
42:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely feels like a nod to the way
42:58
Speaker 2: that we make baths out to be a big deal
43:00
Speaker 2: a fandom. It's like, I'll give you a bath that
43:02
Speaker 2: makes a problem in a zombie apocalypse scene. It's very fun.
43:08
Speaker 2: So as all this is going down, Matt notices barld
43:12
Speaker 2: and showing off a group of ragamuffins who have a
43:15
Speaker 2: piece of paper, and Matt's like, what's that? What's that
43:18
Speaker 2: all about? And we know, and we will learn in
43:21
Speaker 2: the next chapter that it is about the posters that
43:24
Speaker 2: Varen is no that dark friends in the area are
43:27
Speaker 2: putting out that Varren is utilizing to find her way
43:32
Speaker 2: to one of the two.
43:33
Speaker 1: Wait, I thought it was Varren was the one who
43:35
Speaker 1: was creating them. No, she was the dark friend. No,
43:39
Speaker 1: she's the dark friend putting it out.
43:41
Speaker 2: Well, I thought that there's the remember Matt's whole line
43:45
Speaker 2: I thought you Saya dart it, And Varren says, no,
43:48
Speaker 2: I got this from another dark friend, like I inserted
43:51
Speaker 2: myself into the dark friendery.
43:54
Speaker 1: I don't remember that part.
43:55
Speaker 2: Oh there's this awful line where Matt's like, well, I
43:58
Speaker 2: just thought you Saya dart it and goes Saya dared it,
44:01
Speaker 2: and I just it's sort of internally Echoalia in Forever
44:05
Speaker 2: in my head in Michael Kramer's voice, Saya dar darted.
44:10
Speaker 1: So how so where did the pictures come from? Then?
44:13
Speaker 1: Who's who's drawing them?
44:14
Speaker 2: I don't think we actually know. I just but Varren
44:18
Speaker 2: is able to, like as a dark friend, like slide
44:21
Speaker 2: on in there and intercept the information. But I'm pretty
44:23
Speaker 2: sure that someone else, and I don't know who know
44:25
Speaker 2: who it is. It's probably like Sindane or Mogedi in
44:29
Speaker 2: because I.
44:29
Speaker 1: Swore the only reason anyone's looking for is because she
44:32
Speaker 1: does her whole logic thing and figures out that she's
44:34
Speaker 1: in tveran trap and it's not Rand because she was
44:38
Speaker 1: just with Rand, so it must be Matt or Paren.
44:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's that, but I feel like then she
44:44
Speaker 2: stumbles across the posters. I don't agree with them. All
44:51
Speaker 2: I know is that there's a weird exchange that is
44:52
Speaker 2: stuck in my head on an internal loop. So who's
44:56
Speaker 2: to say what that actually means? Give me a second, yes, please,
45:02
Speaker 2: because I definitely don't have the time to read through
45:05
Speaker 2: and find that scene.
45:06
Speaker 1: Oh no, you're right. Varren receives pictures of Matt and
45:09
Speaker 1: Barron from a dark friend who is hunting them.
45:12
Speaker 2: Yeah. See, I'm only crazy sometimes.
45:16
Speaker 1: Got a nice call.
45:18
Speaker 2: Saya da, it's Michael Kramer. It's entirely Michael Kramer's fault
45:22
Speaker 2: from making that little bit of sound stuck in my
45:24
Speaker 2: head forever.
45:25
Speaker 1: But no follow up on which dark friend that is
45:29
Speaker 1: or anything like that.
45:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that we can assume that it
45:33
Speaker 2: was Morden's orders to get the two captured, going through
45:36
Speaker 2: Moghetti and or send in and like their you know,
45:39
Speaker 2: networks of dark friends that they can call on, just
45:42
Speaker 2: sort of generic dark friendery.
45:44
Speaker 1: So yeah, interesting, thanks.
45:47
Speaker 2: For checking on that, because I was like, I don't
45:49
Speaker 2: know if i'd be right about this.
45:51
Speaker 1: I don't know you are you are? You are? Wow?
45:54
Speaker 1: Well that's interesting. I'd like to try and figure out
45:56
Speaker 1: who that dark friend is. But I bet there's no clues.
45:58
Speaker 2: Maybe we can build a solid headcannon. By the time
46:01
Speaker 2: we get to that actual scene, we've done it before
46:03
Speaker 2: hashtags fan and tread. So yeah, the throw gets made
46:11
Speaker 2: and Matt wins.
46:13
Speaker 1: Matt wins yep, and in that moment, and.
46:16
Speaker 2: Then Barldon yells at everyone to go. He's like, Matt,
46:18
Speaker 2: you and your party leave, everyone else go inside. We're
46:22
Speaker 2: gonna still avoid zombie time. And then Matt just takes
46:26
Speaker 2: one more minute to monologue, and that's too much. One
46:29
Speaker 2: more second. Really, it's not even a whole minute.
46:31
Speaker 1: I mean, they wouldn't have had time to get out
46:33
Speaker 1: of the village. They would have had that would have
46:35
Speaker 1: had that in many minutes before.
46:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like they all go inside and wait for
46:40
Speaker 2: like three beats and then right as someone's about to
46:42
Speaker 2: say something, boom, because.
46:44
Speaker 1: Like, remember this town is it's as big as Barylon
46:47
Speaker 1: basically right right, yeah, A couple ins, it's three ins.
46:52
Speaker 1: They're spread out, there's lots of streets you gotta sort
46:55
Speaker 1: of wind down through. It's gonna take you ten, fifteen,
46:57
Speaker 1: maybe twenty minutes to get out of that town, you know,
47:01
Speaker 1: at a walk, probably more like five minutes at a run,
47:04
Speaker 1: but like still they were not they they did not
47:08
Speaker 1: leave soon enough, is what I'm trying to say.
47:10
Speaker 2: And then we get the great jump scares see you, Tom, honest,
47:13
Speaker 2: there was nothing to be worried about. And that's when
47:15
Speaker 2: the screaming sharted. It's like, okay, Brandon Sanderson, I see
47:20
Speaker 2: what you did there, and I'm not even mad about it.
47:22
Speaker 2: Like that is actually a good hook. This is fun.
47:24
Speaker 2: This is fine.
47:26
Speaker 1: No, this is I love these chapters, right, these are fun.
47:28
Speaker 1: And then like, oh my god, the next chapter is
47:31
Speaker 1: just action packed. A Night in Hinders tap is just
47:35
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a fun chapter of just horror body,
47:39
Speaker 1: horror things popping out of the darkness, the weirdness of
47:44
Speaker 1: the people. Like it's it's such a well written horror scene.
47:48
Speaker 1: I think it's it's one of my favorite chapters in
47:51
Speaker 1: this book for this for that reason.
47:53
Speaker 2: Absolutely, let's let's do it.
47:55
Speaker 5: Let's do it still the dice logo.
48:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, same logo as before. Because it's the same chapter.
48:13
Speaker 1: It's just stupid long, so they split it into two.
48:17
Speaker 1: That's all Night in Hinders tap burn you, Matt Talmanas said,
48:22
Speaker 1: yanking his sword free from the gut of the twitching villager.
48:25
Speaker 1: Talmanus almost never swore burn you twice over and once
48:28
Speaker 1: again me. Matt snapped, spinning his ashende flashing as he
48:32
Speaker 1: nearly hamstrung two men in bright green vests. They fell
48:36
Speaker 1: to the packed earthen street, eyes wide with rage. They
48:39
Speaker 1: sputtered and growled me. I'm not the one trying to
48:42
Speaker 1: kill you, Telmanus, Blame them. Tilmanus managed to pull himself
48:46
Speaker 1: into his saddle. They told us to leave, Yes, Matt said,
48:50
Speaker 1: grabbing Pip's reins and pulling the horse away from the
48:52
Speaker 1: tipsy gelding. And now they're trying to kill us. I
48:55
Speaker 1: can't rightly be blamed for their unsociable behavior. Howls, screams,
48:59
Speaker 1: and yell rose from all across the village. Some were angry,
49:03
Speaker 1: some were terrified, others were agonized. More and more men
49:07
Speaker 1: piled out of the tavern, each one grunting and yelling,
49:11
Speaker 1: each one trying his best to kill every person around him.
49:14
Speaker 1: Some of them came from Matt, Tamanus or Matt's red arms,
49:17
Speaker 1: but many just attacked their companions, hands, ripping its skin, nails,
49:20
Speaker 1: tearing gouges and faces. They fought with a primal lack
49:24
Speaker 1: of skill, and only a few thought to pick up rocks, mugs,
49:27
Speaker 1: or lengths of wood as weapons. This was far more
49:30
Speaker 1: than a simple bar fight. These men were trying to
49:32
Speaker 1: kill each other already. There were half a dozen corpses
49:35
Speaker 1: or near corpses on the street, and from what Matt
49:38
Speaker 1: could see from inside the inn, the fighting was equally brutal. Inside,
49:43
Speaker 1: Matt tried to dodge closer to the wagon with its
49:46
Speaker 1: load of food, pips clopping along beside him. His chest
49:49
Speaker 1: of gold lay still on the street. The fighting men
49:52
Speaker 1: ignored both food and coin, concentrating on one another. I
49:57
Speaker 1: think that's good.
49:58
Speaker 2: It's so creepy. They're attacking each other as much as
50:02
Speaker 2: anyone else. But they're leaving the animals alone. They're leaving
50:05
Speaker 2: the food alone, they're leaving the money alone. They have
50:07
Speaker 2: no strategy, no self preservation. It just what is happening?
50:14
Speaker 2: How do you predict an enemy with those priorities and
50:17
Speaker 2: skills or lack thereof?
50:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is it seems almost as though it's
50:25
Speaker 1: like the vision that Rand has where the dark one
50:27
Speaker 1: pulls away all the goodness from them and they're just
50:30
Speaker 1: like they're just evil. Like it's like but almost more
50:33
Speaker 1: animalistic right there, there's a level of not being able
50:36
Speaker 1: to think as well.
50:39
Speaker 2: I wonder if it's kind of what the human part
50:42
Speaker 2: of the trillic experience is like, or like the peace
50:46
Speaker 2: of humanity that like really gets accentuated and made more
50:50
Speaker 2: by trillic rage. If there's a little bit of like
50:53
Speaker 2: that like animalistic rage coming through and overriding the humanity
50:59
Speaker 2: in a way that like maybe once, I mean, the
51:01
Speaker 2: Dark One maybe is working from some old lab notes
51:04
Speaker 2: from agenor right, just to come up with how this
51:07
Speaker 2: could work.
51:08
Speaker 1: Well. I actually just recently watched twenty eight Days Later,
51:11
Speaker 1: and the rage zombies are very similar, right, It's like,
51:15
Speaker 1: but there's no infection, just everyone turns into rage zombies
51:17
Speaker 1: all at once and attacks everybody around them. But that
51:20
Speaker 1: level of just like rage and anger and tearing into
51:24
Speaker 1: each other is exactly how the Hinderstap feel.
51:27
Speaker 2: Yeah. Just the lack of strategy, the lack of a goal,
51:32
Speaker 2: just sheer rage is so like you see people go
51:37
Speaker 2: there in like certain climax moments of movies fights, right like,
51:42
Speaker 2: oh and then they lose control. You see this happen
51:45
Speaker 2: with like mob violence, right like the mob gains a
51:48
Speaker 2: level of sentience that transcends the individual people, right, Like
51:53
Speaker 2: this rage is a thing that exists in humans. People
51:57
Speaker 2: can lose their minds. It is a thing. But yeah,
52:00
Speaker 2: if the devil turned a whole town to eleven on
52:03
Speaker 2: that that that would be a very different thing than
52:08
Speaker 2: anything you've ever imagined.
52:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of like Reavers in uh yeah, you know,
52:14
Speaker 1: except they can work get together enough to fly a spaceship.
52:17
Speaker 1: So I'm always always wondering, like what's going on exactly there?
52:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't make any sense at all.
52:24
Speaker 1: No, And that's similar thing with like the mob that
52:27
Speaker 1: tries to attack the ice'd eye. If they're attacking each other,
52:30
Speaker 1: they shouldn't be enough of a coherent mob to like
52:33
Speaker 1: break down the door and get inside. They should just
52:35
Speaker 1: be attacking each other at the.
52:36
Speaker 2: Door, right. You'd think that outlasting them would make them
52:40
Speaker 2: turn on each other exactly exactly. There's some weird like
52:44
Speaker 2: mob herd flock animal intelligence kind of happening there. Because again,
52:49
Speaker 2: I mean, this is the dark one trying to like
52:51
Speaker 2: create maximum chaos. So like making sure that no living
52:55
Speaker 2: beings escape the village is going to be more important
52:59
Speaker 2: than killing your fellow zombies, right, Like, you have to
53:02
Speaker 2: get to the living people first. That matters more than
53:06
Speaker 2: killing your fellow zombies. Once there's no more living people,
53:08
Speaker 2: then you can kill your fellow zombies. I guess I
53:12
Speaker 2: don't know. Zombies have very strange rules. I don't like them.
53:16
Speaker 2: Horror doesn't have to make sense when magic is involved
53:19
Speaker 2: at all. Like if you've got magic or some other
53:22
Speaker 2: mechanism that transcends in normal reality, and then the horror
53:24
Speaker 2: does not have to follow the rules, and this does not.
53:29
Speaker 1: So they dropped. There's an initial group of eight that
53:31
Speaker 1: attack them, and they're able to kill that group of
53:33
Speaker 1: eight pretty easily because right now we're talking about four
53:36
Speaker 1: fighters on horses versus eight inept people on foot.
53:41
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, exactly, exactly, that's some level one odds. You're fine, Right,
53:46
Speaker 2: you're fine.
53:47
Speaker 1: So and then they sort of see that everyone's fighting
53:49
Speaker 1: in the inn, and so they're like, go run, We've
53:52
Speaker 1: got to find Tom and the women. Let's go reunite
53:54
Speaker 1: our party. Right, if you're doing the thing that you
53:56
Speaker 1: should do in horror movies, which is let's not break up,
53:59
Speaker 1: let's bring our party back together.
54:01
Speaker 2: I don't assume everyone's going to get out on their own,
54:04
Speaker 2: go looking for.
54:05
Speaker 1: I did notice some of them had fallen to all fours.
54:08
Speaker 1: And we're moving in a strange lope, right, I Mean,
54:10
Speaker 1: there's that line like there's some real animalistic characteristics going
54:14
Speaker 1: on with these and I do like the like, maybe
54:16
Speaker 1: there's some trollockness going on here.
54:18
Speaker 2: I'm really warming to that idea that like this is
54:22
Speaker 2: a mental only trillock transition, but the body is still
54:26
Speaker 2: entirely human.
54:27
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, like ugh. So he you know, in the
54:31
Speaker 1: beginning of the chapter, in the beginning the last chapter,
54:33
Speaker 1: he noted what in Tom and the women went to,
54:36
Speaker 1: and that was the whole point of that whole like
54:37
Speaker 1: extended part where he was saying, oh, I know this
54:41
Speaker 1: in and I know that in and I know this
54:42
Speaker 1: in And it's like it's because he's noting where everybody's
54:45
Speaker 1: going to go, so we can go find them again
54:47
Speaker 1: now that the horror show has started, right. Yeah.
54:49
Speaker 2: At the time, it seems like a silly affectation that
54:51
Speaker 2: he's like, I know everything about how all the ends work,
54:54
Speaker 2: and in any town, I know exactly where everything is
54:57
Speaker 2: because I'm so smart. Well, it's actually kind of just
54:59
Speaker 2: his military mind being like landmark, Landmark, landmark, because you
55:04
Speaker 2: might need it later during a hasty retreat in the dark,
55:06
Speaker 2: trying to reassemble the party in the middle of a
55:08
Speaker 2: sea of zombies, he just has to put his little
55:11
Speaker 2: personality twist on it and be like, I'm such a
55:13
Speaker 2: cosmopolitan boy. I know where the dive bar is.
55:16
Speaker 1: And because this town is, you know, in unnatural darkness,
55:21
Speaker 1: darkness does come. You know. It's normally when the sunsets,
55:24
Speaker 1: you still have a fair amount of light for quite
55:26
Speaker 1: some time. But it's been a few minutes and it's
55:29
Speaker 1: like you're in the middle of the mountains or the
55:31
Speaker 1: trees where they walk out all the light and it
55:33
Speaker 1: gets dark almost instantly, and it feels like they're in
55:36
Speaker 1: the shadow of the dark one.
55:37
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Yeah, for sure. There's this one line
55:40
Speaker 2: in that same paragraph. In that darkness, the fights looked
55:44
Speaker 2: at times to be solid, single creatures, horrific monstrosities with
55:48
Speaker 2: a dozen waving limbs and one hundred mouths to scream
55:52
Speaker 2: from the blackness, like, oh my god, that is so
55:57
Speaker 2: night marriage. It's so good. I don't normally like nightmarish things.
56:01
Speaker 2: How talented does Brandon Sanderson have to be to get
56:04
Speaker 2: me to like horror stuff like wow, I tip my
56:08
Speaker 2: hat to you, sir.
56:09
Speaker 1: It's good. The night itself seemed to be trying to
56:12
Speaker 1: smother them, to strangle them, and to spawn beasts of
56:15
Speaker 1: blackness and murder.
56:17
Speaker 2: It's heavy.
56:18
Speaker 1: So then as they're basically trying to find get to
56:21
Speaker 1: the other end, Delarne gets pulled down off his horse,
56:26
Speaker 1: which is one of the Red Arms, and.
56:27
Speaker 2: His scream sounds more human than the other rights again horrifying.
56:33
Speaker 2: There's all these animal nightmare screams, and then you hear
56:35
Speaker 2: a regular person scream like oh my god. And Matt
56:39
Speaker 2: is like, absolutely not on my watch, absolutely not. Tom
56:43
Speaker 2: honest is like fucking leaving man overboard. Matt's like no, no, no, no,
56:48
Speaker 2: two men overboard. That's what's happening. Now, you come back
56:50
Speaker 2: and rescue both of us right now.
56:53
Speaker 1: Go get some help, Go get help. I'm gonna protect
56:55
Speaker 1: him for now.
56:56
Speaker 2: Oh I mean, And this is like, I'm sorry, Matt,
56:58
Speaker 2: but you don't get to deny your hero When your
57:01
Speaker 2: first reaction to losing a man to the zombie swarm
57:04
Speaker 2: is to turn around, You don't get to deny being
57:07
Speaker 2: a hero. You simply do not like, no, one is
57:09
Speaker 2: shitting on Timanas for saying leave him. No one gives
57:12
Speaker 2: taman As any shit whatsoever. Ergo to turn around as
57:17
Speaker 2: your first reaction is hero shit.
57:21
Speaker 1: That's that's running into the burning building.
57:23
Speaker 2: Right, exactly exactly. This is a burning building if ever
57:26
Speaker 2: I have seen one. Also, he will literally run into
57:29
Speaker 2: a burning building next book. But whatever.
57:31
Speaker 1: It would be kind of fun if Matt died in
57:33
Speaker 1: this night and was like therefore the immortal Warrior who
57:36
Speaker 1: could like fight battles repeatedly, fight battles in the last
57:39
Speaker 1: battle and use teleportation, you know, gateways to come back
57:44
Speaker 1: every day and be like Demandra being like I've killed
57:47
Speaker 1: you so many times and Matt being like, yep.
57:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, dude, I know, cheap tried.
57:55
Speaker 1: That would be a cool power for Mat to have
57:56
Speaker 1: and very lowkey, like.
57:58
Speaker 2: I mean, just being unkillable, like you can't kill him,
58:01
Speaker 2: but he won't stay.
58:01
Speaker 1: Dead, yeah exactly exactly. Yeah, And then like then you
58:07
Speaker 1: could have him die in the last battle and it
58:08
Speaker 1: would be finally a last death right because the dark
58:12
Speaker 1: One won't be.
58:13
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yes, the legend. You cannot kill me
58:15
Speaker 2: in any way that matters, which for anyone who doesn't know.
58:20
Speaker 2: There's a great meme about mushrooms that that's about. You
58:24
Speaker 2: cannot kill a mushroom in any way that matters.
58:27
Speaker 1: It's great well because yeah, my cilium is the like microscopic, right.
58:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also in the scenario, a gun is the
58:33
Speaker 2: weapon of choice, so it's really useless, but it's a
58:38
Speaker 2: really funny meme. It's so good. Everyone who knows knows,
58:41
Speaker 2: tell me the name of God, your son of a bitch.
58:49
Speaker 1: Anyway, So he's fighting in the dark and there's this
58:52
Speaker 1: line here. It reminded him briefly of another night killing
58:54
Speaker 1: shadow spawn in the dark. Save these figures he fought
58:57
Speaker 1: didn't have the grace of a murd drawl. What reference?
59:01
Speaker 1: What is he referencing there?
59:02
Speaker 2: He's referencing that time that him and Milindra were fighting
59:05
Speaker 2: in Commando when there was an attack as Rand Moraine
59:10
Speaker 2: at all were in all the Ieo. We're coming back
59:13
Speaker 2: to Kyrie chasing the Shadow.
59:15
Speaker 1: This is book four or five?
59:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I forget which book. It must have been five
59:20
Speaker 2: because it's after all the amazing events of book four,
59:23
Speaker 2: so yeah, I had to have been book five. But yeah,
59:25
Speaker 2: there's that fight where Matt and Millindro, We're clearly like
59:28
Speaker 2: mid fucking and the attack started and they're out there.
59:32
Speaker 2: Matt like threw on his pants and Millindro is just
59:35
Speaker 2: fully naked and there I think we see them like
59:39
Speaker 2: at the edge of Rand's POV. We aren't really with
59:41
Speaker 2: them for the fight, but they are there doing all
59:44
Speaker 2: kinds of fighty things. So that's what I assumed he
59:46
Speaker 2: was talking about. I mean, yes, Liligion, that does make
59:49
Speaker 2: a lot of sense. One should contain the wang before fighting.
59:54
Speaker 1: Anything. I mean, in the same way that you don't
59:57
Speaker 1: want to wear loose clothing when you're in a kitchen.
59:59
Speaker 1: You don't want loose skin flying around when sharp knives
1:00:02
Speaker 1: are like it's just no yea, yeah, that's just practical.
1:00:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, you keep yourself contained and orderly.
1:00:09
Speaker 1: He instantly recognized the sword form rat gnawing the grain.
1:00:14
Speaker 1: No idea what that would look like? Mean, what does
1:00:17
Speaker 1: that mean? Come on? Really?
1:00:19
Speaker 2: No? No, right there? Yeah or whatever.
1:00:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, so in the dark he can recognize his buddy
1:00:31
Speaker 1: because his buddy's the only other one who's fighting with
1:00:33
Speaker 1: any sort of sword form or grace or humanity, and so.
1:00:36
Speaker 2: Any sense of self preservation, right, he's making moves that
1:00:39
Speaker 2: are designed to protect.
1:00:41
Speaker 1: Him, right, right, So that's how he's able to fight
1:00:45
Speaker 1: off these other you know, strike without worrying he's going
1:00:48
Speaker 1: to attack his friend in the darkness because they're they're
1:00:50
Speaker 1: fighting in the dark, right.
1:00:51
Speaker 2: I have always amazed in any kind of like high
1:00:54
Speaker 2: volume lots of people combat situation that people can tell
1:00:57
Speaker 2: each other apart, especially like medieval battles. Again, obviously I'm
1:01:00
Speaker 2: talking movies and stuff, but like you're all rolling around
1:01:03
Speaker 2: in the mud, how can you tell each other apart?
1:01:06
Speaker 1: I had the same problem I played group sports. You
1:01:09
Speaker 1: know how many times when I was playing soccer I
1:01:11
Speaker 1: kicked the ball to the wrong side because in the
1:01:14
Speaker 1: quick second that you're supposed to kick the ball, I cannot.
1:01:17
Speaker 1: I couldn't differentiate who was on my side and who
1:01:19
Speaker 1: was on the other side. I have the problem all
1:01:20
Speaker 1: the time.
1:01:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I can't imagine how people do it when
1:01:24
Speaker 2: your lives are on the line, Like, oh my god.
1:01:27
Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, I'm impressed you were able
1:01:28
Speaker 2: to kick the ball to anyone at all. I am impressed.
1:01:32
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I was somewhat athletic. I wasn't hopelessly unathletic.
1:01:38
Speaker 1: Back in the day I was a swimmer.
1:01:41
Speaker 2: I have never been able to consistently kick a ball
1:01:43
Speaker 2: where I wanted to go, never in my life.
1:01:47
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of pressure on me, as
1:01:49
Speaker 1: being male, to do the sports. So I did the
1:01:52
Speaker 1: sports for a while.
1:01:53
Speaker 2: My brother is worse at kicking balls than I am,
1:01:57
Speaker 2: but then again, like my dad am mom are both
1:02:00
Speaker 2: not very athletic, so is it. We were just like,
1:02:02
Speaker 2: you know what, it's fine. If you want to be
1:02:03
Speaker 2: a computer nerd, that's cool, that's totally fine.
1:02:06
Speaker 1: They figured out very quickly throwing the ball was never
1:02:09
Speaker 1: gonna happen, right. There was no basketball, baseball, football, any
1:02:14
Speaker 1: of those where you're actually throwing the ball. Those are
1:02:16
Speaker 1: just a giant no no. So I got put in
1:02:18
Speaker 1: soccer and swimming pretty quickly.
1:02:20
Speaker 2: So your foot eye coordination was pretty good if if
1:02:22
Speaker 2: your hand eye coordination was less.
1:02:24
Speaker 1: So I'd say more like they put me on defense
1:02:28
Speaker 1: and said, just kick it as hard as you fucking
1:02:30
Speaker 1: can to get it out and clear it, and that's that.
1:02:33
Speaker 1: That was good enough. I didn't really aim for anything.
1:02:35
Speaker 1: I just kicked it hard.
1:02:38
Speaker 2: That's good. Vent your spleen a little bit yetball? Yeah, yeah,
1:02:42
Speaker 2: soccer balls are good for kicking. If you can get
1:02:45
Speaker 2: a good kick on a soccer ball feels very satisfying.
1:02:48
Speaker 2: But that's a big if in my case.
1:02:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, trying to get the right part of your foot
1:02:53
Speaker 1: and not having your toe jam up into your foot
1:02:56
Speaker 1: is yeah much less. Have the ball go where you
1:02:58
Speaker 1: want it to go.
1:02:59
Speaker 2: So much going on there. All that to say, like,
1:03:02
Speaker 2: I've done martial arts, but I would I would die
1:03:04
Speaker 2: instantly in hinderstap. I would know how to use my
1:03:08
Speaker 2: staff very smoothly, and I would immediately die.
1:03:13
Speaker 1: I'd just be running.
1:03:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, no exactly. I would be like throat chair and
1:03:18
Speaker 2: high silent there. I don't I don't think I would
1:03:21
Speaker 2: make it.
1:03:21
Speaker 1: My best skills are like capture the flag and like
1:03:25
Speaker 1: dipping and dodging and running around. Of course when I
1:03:27
Speaker 1: was a kid now now on my knees, wouldn't tolerate it.
1:03:35
Speaker 1: I'd like dodge all got out? Oh okay, okay, you
1:03:39
Speaker 1: got me? Yeah right.
1:03:41
Speaker 2: So yeah, Matt is down, he's fighting, he's saving to larn.
1:03:45
Speaker 2: He's not gonna be able to save himself. Tom to
1:03:47
Speaker 2: the rescue. Cool, Now we don't have to go pick
1:03:49
Speaker 2: up Tom. At his end. Tom has joined the party
1:03:51
Speaker 2: on his own power. And here is the proof that
1:03:54
Speaker 2: Tom is part of Matt's plot armor and that is
1:03:57
Speaker 2: why he had to be convinced to come on this
1:04:00
Speaker 2: little trip and to stay relevant.
1:04:02
Speaker 1: Well, it's all based on Moraine's prophecy, right, like, because
1:04:06
Speaker 1: Matt and Tom are going to come for her and
1:04:08
Speaker 1: they have to they have to survive until they come
1:04:10
Speaker 1: for her. They've got prophecy protection right.
1:04:13
Speaker 2: There, Yeah, exactly exactly. Tom Onnis also comes back to
1:04:17
Speaker 2: Tom on has his credit, Like Tom Onnus wheels around
1:04:19
Speaker 2: with the others and like comes back. So is a
1:04:22
Speaker 2: too pronged attack to save Matt and to larn.
1:04:24
Speaker 1: It's great, right because Tom's coming from the other end
1:04:27
Speaker 1: where he was by himself. He's been eyeing by himself
1:04:28
Speaker 1: this whole time. So like again Tom being badass. Everybody
1:04:31
Speaker 1: else can barely survive in a group. Tom by himself
1:04:35
Speaker 1: comes to the rescue of another group of people.
1:04:38
Speaker 2: Well probably because as soon as the barkeeper was like, look, budd,
1:04:40
Speaker 2: you really gotta go, Like I'm not being kidding, you
1:04:44
Speaker 2: have to go, Tom was like, you know what, I
1:04:45
Speaker 2: totally understand. Here's a great tip. Thank you so much.
1:04:49
Speaker 2: You know, like he was out of there.
1:04:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was probably on the street out of there.
1:04:53
Speaker 2: He was on his horse when the screaming started. He
1:04:55
Speaker 2: was wondering if he should go pick up Matt or
1:04:58
Speaker 2: if he should just head out, And then the scream
1:05:00
Speaker 2: started and he was like, no, I gotta go get
1:05:01
Speaker 2: Matt and took off towards Matt.
1:05:03
Speaker 1: Ye.
1:05:04
Speaker 2: I just had a funny note that Matt has trained
1:05:06
Speaker 2: his horse to obey battle commands, even though he's had
1:05:11
Speaker 2: this horse for what like seven months? Like, how do
1:05:13
Speaker 2: you is it that fast to train a horse to
1:05:16
Speaker 2: do battle commands? Really? Like, I feel like he's had
1:05:19
Speaker 2: this horse for like literally half the series. Like, I
1:05:24
Speaker 2: don't know you could train horses that fast, but I
1:05:26
Speaker 2: don't know anything about horses.
1:05:28
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to tell you anyhow. That's that's
1:05:31
Speaker 1: you know, he can juggle and learn to juggle in
1:05:33
Speaker 1: two weeks, you know, seven balls, So it's.
1:05:35
Speaker 2: Fine, you know what?
1:05:36
Speaker 1: Sure?
1:05:36
Speaker 2: Right, his horse is a product that totally makes sense.
1:05:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. That's the accelerated learning, right, It's
1:05:42
Speaker 1: the one power is flowing through everybody. It makes them
1:05:45
Speaker 1: faster at learning things. It's just it's how the world works.
1:05:48
Speaker 1: It's a subtle magic, but it's.
1:05:51
Speaker 2: So Delarne is kind of singing Jack in the shadows
1:05:55
Speaker 2: as he you know, seems to be stopping towards death.
1:05:58
Speaker 2: And Matt's like, well, let's go to the guys and
1:06:00
Speaker 2: then we can get him healed and that would be great.
1:06:02
Speaker 2: So they go to the isidize in and the Isidi
1:06:05
Speaker 2: are clearly throwing fireballs on the inside. That's good, So
1:06:08
Speaker 2: they go around the back because the zombies are dumb
1:06:10
Speaker 2: and haven't considered that there's a back door to the
1:06:12
Speaker 2: building and they're just sort of piled up at the front,
1:06:15
Speaker 2: and they go around back, and then Matt and Tamanies
1:06:19
Speaker 2: leave the rest of the party outside and head in
1:06:22
Speaker 2: to get the Isidie mm hmmm.
1:06:25
Speaker 1: And you know, he's like, oh, yeah, I got stabbed
1:06:27
Speaker 1: on my own sword, basically like how did you get stabbed? Yeah,
1:06:30
Speaker 1: they got my own sword away from me and I
1:06:31
Speaker 1: got stabbed, right. Yeah.
1:06:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. They'll use weapons if you use them first, but
1:06:36
Speaker 2: they will not innovate weapons on their own.
1:06:39
Speaker 1: Mm hmmmmmm. Well, they'll pick up rocks and so, you know,
1:06:43
Speaker 1: they have planks and rocks and stones and stuff like that,
1:06:45
Speaker 1: so they just use that you know, but they probably
1:06:47
Speaker 1: see this, yeah, right, exactly exactly.
1:06:51
Speaker 2: And then Delarne does thank Matt for coming back for him,
1:06:54
Speaker 2: which is nice. You know, he's kind of starting to
1:06:57
Speaker 2: fade out and have the the you know, singing and stuff,
1:07:00
Speaker 2: but then he does say thank you for coming back
1:07:03
Speaker 2: for me, and I do like that, Like, you know, Matt,
1:07:06
Speaker 2: for all of his ability to write off seven thousand
1:07:08
Speaker 2: deaths as an acceptable loss, like, he does also really
1:07:11
Speaker 2: care about the people that he spent lots of page
1:07:13
Speaker 2: time with and is like, nah, you've got some plot
1:07:16
Speaker 2: arm or too, buddy, It's okay.
1:07:18
Speaker 1: Well, and I think he also senses that something, obviously
1:07:21
Speaker 1: something dark one is going on, like you don't you
1:07:25
Speaker 1: don't want to die by that, Like that's just not
1:07:27
Speaker 1: not a good way to die, because you know, I
1:07:30
Speaker 1: think he senses that, like these people knew something was
1:07:33
Speaker 1: going to happen.
1:07:34
Speaker 2: When he senses that dying here is not normal, is
1:07:38
Speaker 2: not dying. This would be a different kind of dying.
1:07:42
Speaker 2: He doesn't know what kind of dying, but it's it's
1:07:44
Speaker 2: not the usual.
1:07:45
Speaker 1: Kind getting caught in a bad loop basically. Yeah, but yeah,
1:07:50
Speaker 1: he doesn't know that, he doesn't know why but yeah,
1:07:52
Speaker 1: that's he's like, no, he's no dummy.
1:07:54
Speaker 2: I can let you die on a regular battlefield. I
1:07:57
Speaker 2: can't let you die on this battlefield, not this one.
1:08:00
Speaker 1: And then we get the coming around the hallway and
1:08:03
Speaker 1: you know, shooting at your friend and missing and being
1:08:06
Speaker 1: like glad I missed that shot. Like this is such
1:08:08
Speaker 1: a trope that they come around the corner of the
1:08:10
Speaker 1: hallway and get a fireball thrown at them, right, I
1:08:13
Speaker 1: feel like I've seen this so many times in the movies.
1:08:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, even just the walking through the building with like
1:08:17
Speaker 2: the there's no soundtrack except the crackle of the fire
1:08:20
Speaker 2: and the wet squishing of a man just like pounding
1:08:22
Speaker 2: on another's broken skull, right, Like I feel like that's
1:08:26
Speaker 2: such like this whole scene is just a series of
1:08:29
Speaker 2: tropes I've seen in movies, creeping through the house waiting
1:08:32
Speaker 2: for the jump scare, and then the jump scare is
1:08:34
Speaker 2: your friend almost attacking you, Like right, so it's me.
1:08:37
Speaker 1: It's me, Okay, okay, come out, I won't shoot are
1:08:40
Speaker 1: you sure?
1:08:41
Speaker 4: Yeah?
1:08:41
Speaker 1: Okay? And then you get a joke about it, remember the
1:08:44
Speaker 1: time you almost shot me? Wow, I didn't know it
1:08:46
Speaker 1: was you, you know, like it's just it's yeah.
1:08:48
Speaker 2: Right, and the eyes did ie are being the most
1:08:52
Speaker 2: eyes to die they can possibly be. Oh, we can't
1:08:55
Speaker 2: leave all these poor people. We have to do something.
1:08:58
Speaker 2: Matt's like, can you see these zombie apocalypse neon sign
1:09:02
Speaker 2: flashing over this entire set piece.
1:09:05
Speaker 1: I would have loved to scene some sort of logic
1:09:07
Speaker 1: of like, hey, I bet you didn't have to wait
1:09:11
Speaker 1: to use the one power because they're not human anymore.
1:09:15
Speaker 2: Oh, that would have been a good line, I bet
1:09:18
Speaker 2: Ooh that would have been well how you interpret the
1:09:22
Speaker 2: o's though, so as long as you think they're human
1:09:25
Speaker 2: then you can't attack, but right, that would have been
1:09:27
Speaker 2: an interesting try to thing to get Like you probably
1:09:30
Speaker 2: saw their eyes change and felt your oaths relaxed, didn't you,
1:09:34
Speaker 2: or something that would have been cool. Yeah, maybe all
1:09:38
Speaker 2: their eyes like turned black like in the Witcher and
1:09:40
Speaker 2: like that just is like automatic shadow spawn signal and
1:09:43
Speaker 2: like you're allowed to go for it.
1:09:44
Speaker 1: He does see something like in their eyes, right, something
1:09:47
Speaker 1: that's like.
1:09:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, yeah, no, yeah, that would be interesting if
1:09:53
Speaker 2: you have like surely the eyes to die shadow spawn
1:09:57
Speaker 2: spidy senses would have been like suddenly tingling like as
1:10:01
Speaker 2: of the moment that the screaming started right right like
1:10:05
Speaker 2: you'd think you'd think, especially if it's a trollicky kind
1:10:08
Speaker 2: of bleed over, then you'd think that it would have
1:10:11
Speaker 2: given their eyes to die. Spidey senses a good tangle.
1:10:15
Speaker 1: Maybe, but it's just it's just a bubble of evil,
1:10:17
Speaker 1: so who knows.
1:10:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. Bubbles of evil don't follow all the rules.
1:10:23
Speaker 1: No rules, no rules. That's that's the whole point of
1:10:27
Speaker 1: bubbles of evil is just like nothing.
1:10:28
Speaker 2: There's pure anarchy.
1:10:33
Speaker 1: Okay, small comment. Loved Wheel of Time season three, episode one.
1:10:40
Speaker 2: We'll get to it later. We don't have time to
1:10:44
Speaker 2: unpack all that.
1:10:45
Speaker 1: No, no, we don't, we know, but okay, but really
1:10:49
Speaker 1: they are continuing to get better every season. The show's
1:10:53
Speaker 1: better than it was. Jesus Christ. Sorry. The Harvey my
1:11:00
Speaker 1: dog is currently forcing his way into the studio and
1:11:03
Speaker 1: under my feet and slamming the door into the back
1:11:05
Speaker 1: of my chair and just being an absolute and then
1:11:08
Speaker 1: he just set his snout on my foot that's hanging
1:11:11
Speaker 1: in the air. Is just being very cute. He's being
1:11:14
Speaker 1: very cute. But he's also been a demon today. Oh
1:11:18
Speaker 1: my god, he is such a teenager. Right now. He
1:11:21
Speaker 1: is so sweet one minute and then an absolute terror
1:11:27
Speaker 1: the next.
1:11:41
Speaker 2: Do we want to do the book?
1:11:44
Speaker 1: Yeah? So we're with the iceid Eye in the end,
1:11:49
Speaker 1: they're throwing fireballs and basically Matt's like, you're making a
1:11:53
Speaker 1: ruckus and it's drawing more and more people. You're going
1:11:55
Speaker 1: to have to kill them all to stop them, right,
1:11:57
Speaker 1: So let's get out of here before you have to
1:12:00
Speaker 1: kill the whole town in order to keep yourself.
1:12:02
Speaker 2: Safe, right, Like, maybe stop and just run like you
1:12:06
Speaker 2: no when hold? Right?
1:12:09
Speaker 1: And so they bring to the residents out with them
1:12:11
Speaker 1: right as samples.
1:12:13
Speaker 2: No, just because they're children, Like, we've got to help them,
1:12:16
Speaker 2: We've got to save them. The Isaida are unwilling to
1:12:20
Speaker 2: Jolene specifically, is unwilling to leave these bath attendant children
1:12:24
Speaker 2: to the mob, even though they are clearly of the mob, right, Like,
1:12:28
Speaker 2: that's the thing is, this is not a mob seeking
1:12:31
Speaker 2: the people in the building. This is everyone who's under
1:12:33
Speaker 2: the curse all going crazy at once, right, right, So
1:12:36
Speaker 2: they are no more of a danger than anyone else,
1:12:39
Speaker 2: or no, they are no less of a danger than
1:12:42
Speaker 2: anyone else in the mob. But Jillane insists on bringing
1:12:45
Speaker 2: them as a burden, and they just kind of struggle
1:12:48
Speaker 2: inhumanly strongly for the entire time that they're there, until
1:12:51
Speaker 2: they vanish when the curse loops back around in the morning.
1:12:56
Speaker 2: It's silly. It's silly. It keeps the warders from being
1:12:58
Speaker 2: able to help defend the group. It's a danger to
1:13:01
Speaker 2: the group. If any of those girl, either those girls
1:13:03
Speaker 2: had gotten out, they could have killed more people, like
1:13:06
Speaker 2: Joelene is putting the party in danger.
1:13:08
Speaker 1: No, but they have no idea what's going on. It
1:13:11
Speaker 1: could be a contagion, right, you need to know what's
1:13:13
Speaker 1: going on with these people.
1:13:15
Speaker 2: It's not Joelene's logic, right.
1:13:17
Speaker 1: I know, I know, but I do think it's interesting
1:13:20
Speaker 1: that they don't go back to the band of the
1:13:21
Speaker 1: Red Hand. Matt doesn't say it, but I wonder if
1:13:23
Speaker 1: that's like, what if this is something that's catching, we
1:13:26
Speaker 1: don't want to go back to the band and infect
1:13:28
Speaker 1: the whole band.
1:13:29
Speaker 2: I think it was just that they didn't want to
1:13:31
Speaker 2: ride all the way around the town in the dark.
1:13:33
Speaker 1: Well that too, but come on, give me no damn it.
1:13:38
Speaker 2: I like the idea, but none of them think in
1:13:40
Speaker 2: those terms and stuff.
1:13:41
Speaker 1: No, no, no, they don't.
1:13:43
Speaker 2: That's all what's going on. It would have been a
1:13:45
Speaker 2: good contingency though, like coming from a place of germ theory,
1:13:50
Speaker 2: which ostensibly this world has, but it's only sort of
1:13:53
Speaker 2: specialized medical knowledge like that would make sense. Also, they
1:13:57
Speaker 2: have magic, which doesn't follow germ theory rules anyhow. Oh,
1:14:00
Speaker 2: Delaren gets healed. That's good.
1:14:02
Speaker 1: Yep, that's good. There are thumps and shots followed by
1:14:05
Speaker 1: the doors opening, and so yeah, I'm just I'm wondering
1:14:08
Speaker 1: that they're all working together to get in through these doors,
1:14:10
Speaker 1: and that seems odd to me. It seems like they
1:14:12
Speaker 1: should turn on each other.
1:14:14
Speaker 2: Zombies have the ability to just turn into a mob
1:14:17
Speaker 2: that can crush a door. It's known from movie logic.
1:14:20
Speaker 2: Sanderson writes, movie logic.
1:14:21
Speaker 1: Okay, that's right, that's right.
1:14:23
Speaker 2: It's something I find frustrating in a lot of movies.
1:14:27
Speaker 2: I get that the weight of a crowd crush is
1:14:29
Speaker 2: a lot of weight and can break things, but it
1:14:31
Speaker 2: seems like it happens in very convenient ways in every
1:14:35
Speaker 2: movie I've ever seen where that was a device that
1:14:39
Speaker 2: zombies use. It just I don't know, the physics don't
1:14:41
Speaker 2: feel right to me.
1:14:43
Speaker 1: No, because when we see it happen to real people
1:14:46
Speaker 1: in actual theaters. The crush kills everybody because like you
1:14:49
Speaker 1: can't get out of the door.
1:14:51
Speaker 2: Right, The doors don't just pop off their hinges because
1:14:53
Speaker 2: lots of people are pushing against them. People die because
1:14:57
Speaker 2: the doors won't give Like that's yeah, so, but Sanderson
1:15:02
Speaker 2: writes with movie logic, so if enough people push on
1:15:05
Speaker 2: the door, the door pops off its hinges. Everyone gets
1:15:08
Speaker 2: in tada and yeah. Telmanis continues to push the button
1:15:11
Speaker 2: of like you had to stay for one more toss
1:15:14
Speaker 2: and that's like, I'm pretty sure this wasn't me. It
1:15:18
Speaker 2: seems a little like an overreaction for the whole town,
1:15:20
Speaker 2: given that I was in one part of the town
1:15:22
Speaker 2: at the time, right.
1:15:24
Speaker 1: Right, and it happened everywhere all at the same time.
1:15:26
Speaker 1: There's also the weirdness where like when with the healing,
1:15:29
Speaker 1: when he's like, that's almost as bad as dying, and
1:15:32
Speaker 1: I just.
1:15:33
Speaker 2: That does not feel right at all.
1:15:34
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel right to me. It's just like, no, Matt,
1:15:37
Speaker 1: you've been healed a couple of times, Like I feel
1:15:39
Speaker 1: like you're like you'd be like, oh, I would hate
1:15:41
Speaker 1: to be healed, but it's better than dying.
1:15:42
Speaker 2: Right, Like that to me I was saying in the
1:15:44
Speaker 2: book six, like yeah, so yeah, it's so like, oh,
1:15:48
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like what are you two on? Like
1:15:52
Speaker 2: that's a two on attitude? Like no, that's not you, Matt.
1:15:56
Speaker 1: Like I get where you don't want to be and
1:15:57
Speaker 1: that's why he has the medallion. But like they would
1:16:00
Speaker 1: take the medallion off of him to heal him. I
1:16:01
Speaker 1: think they do at one point, right, Like.
1:16:03
Speaker 2: He takes it off himself when Maureen wants to heal him,
1:16:06
Speaker 2: like he's totally fine with not dying. Like that attitude
1:16:10
Speaker 2: is so it's so early, Matt. It's so impractical. It
1:16:15
Speaker 2: makes no sense with the arc that he's gone through
1:16:17
Speaker 2: and the journey he's gone through.
1:16:18
Speaker 1: And no, no, And then I like this this quote
1:16:21
Speaker 1: from Tom to describe what's going on with the zombies.
1:16:24
Speaker 1: It's if that it's as if the darkness itself intoxicates them,
1:16:28
Speaker 1: as if the light itself has forsaken them, leaving them
1:16:31
Speaker 1: only to the shadow.
1:16:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, imbalance, right, it's pulling too hard into darkness because
1:16:38
Speaker 2: like someone at rand is kind of falling down that path.
1:16:44
Speaker 1: And Okay, and there is a timestamp for when this began, right,
1:16:49
Speaker 1: the time seems to sync up with when Rand was
1:16:52
Speaker 1: fighting the Sean Chan in the forest at the end
1:16:56
Speaker 1: of Path of Daggers.
1:16:58
Speaker 2: I was wondering about that.
1:17:01
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to see like maybe that in terms of,
1:17:04
Speaker 1: like is him losing that battle and going nuts and
1:17:09
Speaker 1: using the power on his own team? Was that sort
1:17:12
Speaker 1: of the beginning of this sort of problem that happened
1:17:15
Speaker 1: with the town that that corruption kind of came through,
1:17:19
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just trying to it was. I was
1:17:21
Speaker 1: trying to look for a bailfire moment or something like
1:17:23
Speaker 1: that where like he used bail fire and that caused
1:17:27
Speaker 1: this to pop up on the same day.
1:17:29
Speaker 2: But it's is that the battle where he thinks I've
1:17:33
Speaker 2: lost for the first time?
1:17:35
Speaker 1: Yeah?
1:17:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I could see there being some kind
1:17:39
Speaker 2: of like the veil gets noticeably thinner, and the dark
1:17:43
Speaker 2: one gets like a whole nother finger hold on on
1:17:47
Speaker 2: the pattern and an upgraded ability to affect the scale
1:17:51
Speaker 2: of the world and like snags on hinders tap as
1:17:55
Speaker 2: like the expression.
1:17:56
Speaker 1: Of that because he's trying to drive Rand to despair,
1:18:00
Speaker 1: and that's one of the first moments when it really
1:18:01
Speaker 1: feels like he's given into despair. He's like he's yeah,
1:18:05
Speaker 1: so yeah, and the hinders Tap popping up at about
1:18:08
Speaker 1: that time.
1:18:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, But how Hinderstap ties to helping Rand choose to
1:18:14
Speaker 2: destroy the world. I can't quite see that. It doesn't
1:18:18
Speaker 2: seem connected in any way. But maybe that's part of
1:18:20
Speaker 2: the deal. Is the Dark One can fuck up one town,
1:18:23
Speaker 2: but he doesn't get to choose what town or something
1:18:26
Speaker 2: like that. You know, Like it's.
1:18:28
Speaker 1: Kind of like if you're if you're you know, making popcorn,
1:18:31
Speaker 1: you don't choose what colonels pop You're just heating it up.
1:18:34
Speaker 1: He's just getting closer. He's providing like an evil heat
1:18:38
Speaker 1: to the pattern that's causing these bubbles and these dark
1:18:41
Speaker 1: you know, he's not in control of the bubble, the
1:18:43
Speaker 1: bubbles of evil. He's not in control of what happens.
1:18:46
Speaker 1: He's not in control of what's happening to Hinder's tap.
1:18:48
Speaker 1: He's just boiling the pattern.
1:18:51
Speaker 2: Right right.
1:18:53
Speaker 1: Oh. I like that.
1:18:54
Speaker 2: I like that. The Dark One can't control the kernels
1:18:57
Speaker 2: them individually, but he can turn up the heat on
1:18:59
Speaker 2: the collectively. I like that.
1:19:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then the seal is sort of like a
1:19:05
Speaker 1: you know, an insulator between the right the burner and
1:19:09
Speaker 1: the dark the burner is the dark one and the
1:19:11
Speaker 1: pattern that's the pot.
1:19:12
Speaker 2: So the seal is cast iron. That's what I'm hearing.
1:19:17
Speaker 1: That the insulator cast iron is not an insulators think
1:19:21
Speaker 1: it is.
1:19:23
Speaker 5: Jesus.
1:19:25
Speaker 2: I mean, what are weslating for?
1:19:27
Speaker 1: Like act a ceramic? It's a ceramic. Quendyar is clearly
1:19:31
Speaker 1: a ceramic. Come on, No, that's.
1:19:33
Speaker 2: Fair, that is fair. That's true, that's true. It is
1:19:36
Speaker 2: obviously ceramic. So yeah, we do a time jump a
1:19:42
Speaker 2: little bit forward a couple of hours to get to
1:19:44
Speaker 2: dawn basically, and we've got Matt thinking about things and
1:19:49
Speaker 2: talking about it with Tom.
1:19:51
Speaker 1: Tom pretending he doesn't have a broken arm, as though
1:19:53
Speaker 1: those don't hurt and you can just shrug them off
1:19:55
Speaker 1: until he gets healed. Yeah, and then he doesn't have one,
1:19:58
Speaker 1: So it's fine, even though I mentioned it just.
1:20:01
Speaker 2: To reiterate that Tom is a bad us, I guess.
1:20:04
Speaker 1: I guess, so yeah, but it's just yeah, everybody's everybody's
1:20:07
Speaker 1: getting healed, right. This is the short rest in the
1:20:10
Speaker 1: D and D game. They go out and have a
1:20:12
Speaker 1: little everyone gets a little bit of healing. Everyone sort
1:20:15
Speaker 1: of lays down, if not sleeps for a bit and
1:20:18
Speaker 1: refills their spell slots.
1:20:20
Speaker 2: Right, and Matt does wonder at this point if he
1:20:22
Speaker 2: did somehow trigger the thing, just because none of the
1:20:26
Speaker 2: things make sense, so that is a worthy thing to consider.
1:20:29
Speaker 2: But that doesn't feel right to him, and we know
1:20:31
Speaker 2: that it's it's not his fault.
1:20:33
Speaker 1: And he says, you know what else, it could have
1:20:35
Speaker 1: been dark one's own work and you know it and
1:20:38
Speaker 1: Tom's like, well, yeah, but doesn't mean it was pointed
1:20:39
Speaker 1: at you, right right. Yeah.
1:20:42
Speaker 2: That's the thing is Matt kind of does a little
1:20:43
Speaker 2: like recap of all of the things in his life
1:20:46
Speaker 2: and it's like, why me, everything's pointed at me? And
1:20:48
Speaker 2: Tom's like, ah't no, dude, I think sometimes shit just
1:20:51
Speaker 2: happens and you happened to be there, Like this one
1:20:55
Speaker 2: doesn't feel Matt shaped at all.
1:20:59
Speaker 1: And then he sort of said I wish they'd go
1:21:00
Speaker 1: after Rand and He's like, do you mean that really?
1:21:02
Speaker 1: And he's like, no, but I wish I meant it,
1:21:04
Speaker 1: which is again something Matt would think but never say.
1:21:09
Speaker 2: And it doesn't even feel right at this point in
1:21:11
Speaker 2: his arc. It feels like a book two thought.
1:21:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And then you get this this line.
1:21:17
Speaker 1: Lies never make things easier in the long run, unless
1:21:20
Speaker 1: they're too exactly the right person usually a woman, at
1:21:24
Speaker 1: exactly the right time that you would like that quote, I.
1:21:31
Speaker 2: Just would like to slap him. Yeah, like I get
1:21:39
Speaker 2: what he's saying, right, like, because the line after that
1:21:42
Speaker 2: is when you tell them lies to yourself, you just
1:21:45
Speaker 2: bring more trouble. Like he's got some good wisdom here,
1:21:48
Speaker 2: but like you should bring deceit to romantic relationships and
1:21:53
Speaker 2: nothing else is not my jam.
1:21:56
Speaker 1: I think you could just leave out the usually a
1:21:58
Speaker 1: woman paraphrase there, right, Like the whole thing would be
1:22:03
Speaker 1: fine unless they're too exactly the right person in exactly
1:22:06
Speaker 1: the right time. I think that could apply to all
1:22:08
Speaker 1: sorts of situations, right, like spying, like all that kind
1:22:12
Speaker 1: of thing, right, but now, but when you throw in
1:22:14
Speaker 1: the usually woman thing, like so now you're just talking
1:22:17
Speaker 1: about like seducing women and like lying about it like that.
1:22:20
Speaker 2: And getting away with stuff and intrigued like with your hmmm, yeah,
1:22:27
Speaker 2: because exactly, Like there's so many situations and it's like, yeah,
1:22:31
Speaker 2: I mean you need to be able to deploy deceit strategically,
1:22:35
Speaker 2: like that is a thing that is part of the
1:22:37
Speaker 2: human experience. But like, oh, you know, that's just part
1:22:40
Speaker 2: of how you get chicks, is like so devalues all
1:22:45
Speaker 2: of the other the other nuance there. It just devalues
1:22:50
Speaker 2: all the nuance.
1:22:50
Speaker 1: And so they're sort of sitting around and they're debating,
1:22:53
Speaker 1: like what the fuck happened? Right? Like they seemed to
1:22:56
Speaker 1: though this was going to happen. But how could they
1:22:58
Speaker 1: know this was going to happen because then they all
1:22:59
Speaker 1: be dead because you only you don't come back from death, right,
1:23:02
Speaker 1: which is exactly.
1:23:03
Speaker 2: What happened, right, Yeah, Like the only way this works
1:23:07
Speaker 2: is if they all got resurrected, which doesn't make sense.
1:23:12
Speaker 1: Spoilers, spoilers. Yeah, And so then they get the paper.
1:23:18
Speaker 1: Tom got one of those drawings of Matt. So they
1:23:20
Speaker 1: kind of look at that and go, oh, that's not good.
1:23:23
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go looking for whoever sent me
1:23:26
Speaker 1: this paper or whoever's putting out these papers.
1:23:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's at least, you know, the beginning of a
1:23:33
Speaker 2: path out of the mountains.
1:23:36
Speaker 1: We're sort of no longer running away from Ebudhar and
1:23:41
Speaker 1: Pink Ribbons and tu on, We are now running to
1:23:44
Speaker 1: whatever plot Matt is going to do next. Right, this
1:23:48
Speaker 1: is ever since he got sent to basically to go
1:23:51
Speaker 1: pick up a lane. Right, that was the last time
1:23:55
Speaker 1: he like that is finally done. Right, that's now he
1:23:59
Speaker 1: gets to go dooce something on his own, which is,
1:24:01
Speaker 1: you know, take out the Golam rescue Moraine. Like he's
1:24:05
Speaker 1: going on his own series of quests now.
1:24:08
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, he shod a little bit of a
1:24:10
Speaker 2: of a break between the two plots, and yeah, this
1:24:13
Speaker 2: is this is him picking up the thread after that break,
1:24:17
Speaker 2: after this break.
1:24:20
Speaker 1: After these messages, we will be right back. The eighties
1:24:25
Speaker 1: are burned into my brain eighties commercials. And then so
1:24:29
Speaker 1: as Dawn, like they're sitting there talking debating what the
1:24:32
Speaker 1: fuck happened? Dawn breaks, the girls vanish from their blankets
1:24:36
Speaker 1: because they're reset in the timeline back into their you know,
1:24:40
Speaker 1: tucked into their beds, or their clothes disappear. That's a
1:24:45
Speaker 1: good question, right, because.
1:24:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, only their bonds are left on the ground, as
1:24:51
Speaker 2: I recall.
1:24:52
Speaker 1: Right, so this is a question, right, So the clothes
1:24:55
Speaker 1: keep getting tears and rips in them. But somehow, if
1:24:58
Speaker 1: you stay up all night drinking at the bar, you
1:24:59
Speaker 1: wake got tucked in your pajamas. Right, So somehow the
1:25:03
Speaker 1: clothes also have to reset, But they're not resetting, they're
1:25:06
Speaker 1: just like getting torn up. They's somehow appearing on you.
1:25:09
Speaker 1: There's a lot of disappearing and reappearing happening of stuff.
1:25:13
Speaker 2: This is this is part of how you can tell
1:25:16
Speaker 2: the like assisht Man wrote these books because he didn't
1:25:19
Speaker 2: think about the clothing practicalities. It's like, because, yeah, like
1:25:24
Speaker 2: where what we need some consistency on the textiles over
1:25:28
Speaker 2: here right right?
1:25:29
Speaker 1: Are they being reset with a timeline or not? Because
1:25:31
Speaker 1: it feels like you're trying to, you know, eat your
1:25:33
Speaker 1: clothing and wear it too.
1:25:35
Speaker 2: Yeah. Is it because the clothing is sacred like your underwear?
1:25:39
Speaker 2: Like that was mean? But like what.
1:25:45
Speaker 1: I just got the Mormon joke.
1:25:48
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's like I would have preferred to have
1:25:51
Speaker 2: the bonds vanish as well, Like that would have been
1:25:54
Speaker 2: even creepier if like the girls and their clothes and
1:25:59
Speaker 2: the strips from the been. Oh maybe it's because the
1:26:01
Speaker 2: bonds were cut from Julian's dress. That's why the bonds
1:26:04
Speaker 2: stayed behind. Yeah, yeah, because they weren't part of the
1:26:09
Speaker 2: The bonds weren't part of the curse, but their clothes
1:26:12
Speaker 2: were part of the curse. Their clothes came from the village. Okay,
1:26:16
Speaker 2: that much at least makes sense, but still the whole Yeah,
1:26:21
Speaker 2: it's if people are waking up in their beds with
1:26:24
Speaker 2: whole bodies but damaged clothes, right, or are the clothes
1:26:28
Speaker 2: showing up in the closet with damage damage.
1:26:32
Speaker 1: Or are they like going around where they disappeared picking
1:26:35
Speaker 1: up bundles of clothing you know.
1:26:38
Speaker 2: Nobi's style, right, Yeah, because we know that the property
1:26:46
Speaker 2: damage doesn't get reset because they're working on fixing things, right.
1:26:51
Speaker 1: And the clothing has to get stitched up, so like.
1:26:53
Speaker 2: The holes are in it, right, But yeah, I guess
1:26:56
Speaker 2: they probably do get reset to being in their night clothes.
1:27:00
Speaker 2: I would imagine they we get reset to being in
1:27:02
Speaker 2: their night clothes, right, whatever they sleep in. And then yeah, there, then.
1:27:06
Speaker 1: What happened to the what happened to the clothes they're
1:27:08
Speaker 1: wearing out at the bar?
1:27:09
Speaker 2: I like the idea that they're just back in the
1:27:11
Speaker 2: closet but with damage, with damage, Like, I just that
1:27:16
Speaker 2: that gives me the right feeling of unease.
1:27:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, so okay, yeah, I'm going to go with that.
1:27:23
Speaker 1: And that seems to match what he said where we
1:27:25
Speaker 1: just we'd find holes in our clothing, and it's like, oh,
1:27:27
Speaker 1: or would you you would find holes in your clothing
1:27:29
Speaker 1: if it was just in the dresser or in the closet,
1:27:31
Speaker 1: And he's like, like, why why is there a hole
1:27:34
Speaker 1: in this shirt? Like I don't remember getting stabbed to
1:27:36
Speaker 1: the chest.
1:27:36
Speaker 2: Right exactly, but like you wouldn't like wandering around in
1:27:39
Speaker 2: the street finding your clothes where you died last night,
1:27:42
Speaker 2: would just be a whole other topic of conversation.
1:27:45
Speaker 1: Right right, right, right, So yeah, no, I think we
1:27:48
Speaker 1: have the headcanon that the clothes are appearing in the
1:27:51
Speaker 1: closet with holes in them.
1:27:52
Speaker 2: That is so creepy. Image like the opening sequence of
1:27:56
Speaker 2: like some kind of like X Files type show with
1:27:59
Speaker 2: just like the closet's empty and then you turn around
1:28:02
Speaker 2: in the closets full, but all the clothes have like damage.
1:28:05
Speaker 2: That makes no sense, like so disturbing. All right, So yeah,
1:28:10
Speaker 2: everyone except for Matt is like, oh my god, where
1:28:12
Speaker 2: the prisoners go. We got to look for them. And
1:28:14
Speaker 2: Matt's like, nah, we just gotta go back to the town.
1:28:16
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter where the prisoners went. The town is
1:28:18
Speaker 2: where the meaningful answers happen. And like, also we know
1:28:22
Speaker 2: that logically the girls around the town. So either way.
1:28:25
Speaker 1: So as they're riding in they see goats being herded,
1:28:27
Speaker 1: which is weird because they like just left. How are
1:28:30
Speaker 1: these people getting out of bed and hurting goats already?
1:28:32
Speaker 1: It's not like they could get up before dawn.
1:28:34
Speaker 2: Maybe the kid was sleeping with the goats and every
1:28:38
Speaker 2: day outside was taking a brief nap, you know, in
1:28:41
Speaker 2: the pre dawn, because that's what happens when you stay
1:28:43
Speaker 2: up all night with your goats. Yeah, little shepherds lean
1:28:48
Speaker 2: to out in the field.
1:28:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, wakes up in a tent every day.
1:28:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, every day, just hanging out with the gat.
1:28:55
Speaker 1: No matter where he sense sets it up, the goat,
1:28:57
Speaker 1: the tent ends up with the goats.
1:29:00
Speaker 2: I'm assuming that the goats are just well, the tenth
1:29:02
Speaker 2: probably not moving right, and the goats are just like,
1:29:04
Speaker 2: I guess we're here now. This is weird.
1:29:06
Speaker 1: What's the significance of the goats? I need to know?
1:29:11
Speaker 1: Iatch reference because I need to know what the fuck
1:29:15
Speaker 1: is happening with the goats.
1:29:16
Speaker 2: Bring back Gwendola and Christy and explain the goats to me.
1:29:22
Speaker 2: We will not be explaining severance. This is not what
1:29:24
Speaker 2: this podcast is about. If you know, you know, if
1:29:26
Speaker 2: you don't, it's fine, watch it or don't.
1:29:30
Speaker 1: You should absolutely just put that at the end of
1:29:32
Speaker 1: the episode and be like Severance spoilers. If you don't
1:29:35
Speaker 1: want to hear them, please turn off the podcast. Now
1:29:39
Speaker 1: we are going to get into Severance, and we are
1:29:41
Speaker 1: not adding any context.
1:29:45
Speaker 2: No context Severance. That would make no sense.
1:29:50
Speaker 1: Actually, that's the only way Severance makes sense is without context,
1:29:54
Speaker 1: because it is you know.
1:29:55
Speaker 2: Hmm, yeah, like what if another completely random thing?
1:29:59
Speaker 4: Anyway, So okay, we're heading back into the Hender's tap.
1:30:18
Speaker 2: Okay, hanging back into Hinder's tap.
1:30:20
Speaker 1: They're sort of still working on theories. It's ghosts and
1:30:22
Speaker 1: spirits and times like why the ghosts and spirits need
1:30:24
Speaker 1: to repair shit, right, Like they wouldn't need to live.
1:30:27
Speaker 2: There, Yeah, like that seems rather mundane for supernatural beings.
1:30:31
Speaker 1: And then they noticed that, like there's a splash of
1:30:35
Speaker 1: blood from the one guy who was wounded, but there's
1:30:37
Speaker 1: no blood from any of the villagers that were killed,
1:30:39
Speaker 1: because they basically soaked the rocks in blood right from
1:30:42
Speaker 1: all these people and there was none left on them,
1:30:45
Speaker 1: but all.
1:30:45
Speaker 2: The blood had to go back into them for the
1:30:47
Speaker 2: morning when they all got put back together. All their
1:30:49
Speaker 2: blood went back where it started exactly exactly.
1:30:53
Speaker 1: So Barlton walks out and goes, Yep, the blood vanishes,
1:30:57
Speaker 1: and Matt's like, uh, aren't you dead?
1:31:00
Speaker 5: Right?
1:31:00
Speaker 2: He's like, I killed you. I saw you. Dad Like
1:31:04
Speaker 2: this is no, He's like, I killed the cook he
1:31:06
Speaker 2: saw you.
1:31:07
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:31:07
Speaker 2: Anyway, Barton's like, please stop talking. We really don't want
1:31:11
Speaker 2: to hear those.
1:31:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so he says here it started several months back,
1:31:17
Speaker 1: and then later it says it was a normal day
1:31:20
Speaker 1: early this year, just before the Feast of Abram and
1:31:23
Speaker 1: sort of when I look up the feast when the
1:31:25
Speaker 1: Feast of Abram was, it was the end of the
1:31:27
Speaker 1: Path of Daggers.
1:31:28
Speaker 2: Wow, I h end of Path of Daggers. So what's
1:31:34
Speaker 2: happening in all the major plus is there anything other
1:31:36
Speaker 2: than Rand going on at that point?
1:31:40
Speaker 1: I mean, Agwayne is definitely doing some stuff, but I
1:31:45
Speaker 1: feel like it's hold on.
1:31:47
Speaker 2: I'm just wondering if there's anyone other than Rand that
1:31:50
Speaker 2: can claim credit for triggering that being unleashed, or if
1:31:55
Speaker 2: it is just Rand's despair at going I've lost for
1:31:59
Speaker 2: the first time, I've lost.
1:32:01
Speaker 3: Paths of Daggers fog of ore, gathering croods, answering the salomons,
1:32:08
Speaker 3: the lanes, blowing up the gateway.
1:32:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, that has a very localized effect. We've already accounted
1:32:15
Speaker 2: for that.
1:32:16
Speaker 1: A gwayn is meeting with the borderlanders on the ice.
1:32:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that doesn't feel relevant either. Hey, the astronauts
1:32:30
Speaker 2: people that were stuck in space are back on Earth.
1:32:33
Speaker 2: They made it. That's exciting back down after nine months
1:32:36
Speaker 2: more space time than they wanted. Congratulations to them.
1:32:41
Speaker 1: Yeah. Sorry, there's nothing else going on in that in
1:32:43
Speaker 1: that book that I think is significant pattern wise to.
1:32:47
Speaker 2: Okay, So it is Rand's escalating despair making the dark
1:32:50
Speaker 2: One able to turn the heat up a little harder.
1:32:53
Speaker 1: Sure, or just a bubble of evil that happened to
1:32:56
Speaker 1: land here at this point in that point in time.
1:32:59
Speaker 2: We've I've ever seen a bubble of evil that lasts indefinitely.
1:33:03
Speaker 2: They always have an ending, and this one doesn't end.
1:33:06
Speaker 1: But this bubble of evil is a time loop, which
1:33:09
Speaker 1: means it just keeps resetting itself.
1:33:10
Speaker 2: Right, But that is part of the bubble ish, right,
1:33:14
Speaker 2: like the loop is the bubble of evil?
1:33:18
Speaker 1: Right? Yes, But like to loop, it has to persist.
1:33:24
Speaker 2: I just I just don't feel like we see anywhere
1:33:26
Speaker 2: else in the world that loops.
1:33:27
Speaker 1: So no, well this is I mean, no, not at all.
1:33:31
Speaker 1: This is unique for sure, I don't and like that's
1:33:35
Speaker 1: but it's the pattern falling apart, right is it. Think
1:33:39
Speaker 1: of it less as these bubbles of evil and more
1:33:41
Speaker 1: of the pattern falling apart. That's how you have parts
1:33:43
Speaker 1: of the tower moving around, you have dead walking, you know,
1:33:46
Speaker 1: these things are coming back to life in this place,
1:33:49
Speaker 1: just got caught in this one loop that persists.
1:33:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, the turbulent flow of the pattern unweaving
1:33:56
Speaker 2: does not need to be consistent from one place to
1:33:58
Speaker 2: the next at all.
1:34:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is a little whirlpool. There's a
1:34:02
Speaker 1: little eddie pool that got caught off on the side
1:34:04
Speaker 1: and is just swirling and swirling and swirling, and a
1:34:06
Speaker 1: little little town fell in it and it's just spinning
1:34:08
Speaker 1: around in place forever.
1:34:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, well until Rand puts the dark one away and
1:34:12
Speaker 2: then forever and it's all good.
1:34:19
Speaker 1: So you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, And so they sort
1:34:23
Speaker 1: of talk about the nightmares.
1:34:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, he gives his order of events and Matt's like,
1:34:29
Speaker 2: I can fill in the gaps. He's like, please don't,
1:34:31
Speaker 2: please do not fill in the gaps. We don't want it.
1:34:34
Speaker 1: They could remember turning in the previous evening. They remember
1:34:36
Speaker 1: waking safe and comfortable in their beds. So comfortable in
1:34:39
Speaker 1: the beds makes me think in there whatever in their pjs.
1:34:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, like completely the way they started that morning.
1:34:45
Speaker 1: Not like in your clothes with your shoes and boots
1:34:47
Speaker 1: on and stuff like that.
1:34:47
Speaker 2: And not naked and bloodied and like no, like exactly
1:34:51
Speaker 2: how you expect it to wake up before the loops started. Obviously.
1:34:56
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:34:56
Speaker 2: They talk about how you can't even kill yourself to
1:34:59
Speaker 2: get away from it. They talk about how travelers have
1:35:02
Speaker 2: been trapped and given assigned rooms by the pattern in
1:35:05
Speaker 2: the inn.
1:35:06
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. All the horror of like, yeah, you die here,
1:35:09
Speaker 1: you stuck, you're stuck here, and we know and it's
1:35:13
Speaker 1: like they know you. We know you survived because we
1:35:15
Speaker 1: could see the blood on the ground.
1:35:17
Speaker 2: Right, because if you'd been caught then there wouldn't have
1:35:20
Speaker 2: been blood. We would just have or now there would
1:35:22
Speaker 2: be blood because they say that there were there was
1:35:26
Speaker 2: the first time, right.
1:35:28
Speaker 1: That's that's what I'm not sure about, Like the first
1:35:30
Speaker 1: time you die, Yeah, does your blood disappear or is
1:35:33
Speaker 1: that left.
1:35:33
Speaker 2: I think it's left the first time your real death
1:35:36
Speaker 2: and then after that you're looping deaths doesn't count.
1:35:40
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think they get all reset
1:35:43
Speaker 1: that first time because he's like, he goes, they go
1:35:45
Speaker 1: out and finish the fence, right, and they don't notice
1:35:46
Speaker 1: like a bunch of blood or anything, or a body.
1:35:49
Speaker 1: There's no body. Ever, if there's no body, there's no blood. Yeah.
1:35:55
Speaker 2: Yeah. And they talk about the isidye thing too, where
1:35:58
Speaker 2: he's like, we don't want to die. Help. Also, some
1:36:01
Speaker 2: of us thought it would be cool to get an
1:36:03
Speaker 2: ic to die caught here so we could get iced
1:36:05
Speaker 2: to die. Help. Like, we're not even unified on how
1:36:07
Speaker 2: we feel about.
1:36:08
Speaker 1: That, which is very realistic for small town politics.
1:36:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Do we want the government's aid? Yes?
1:36:14
Speaker 1: No?
1:36:14
Speaker 2: Maybe so if this isn't the government, this is like witches.
1:36:18
Speaker 1: And maybe that's part of the reason. Maybe the women
1:36:20
Speaker 1: circle wanted the women to get caught and that's why
1:36:23
Speaker 1: they let them take the baths long.
1:36:26
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. The women were like, well, another eyes or
1:36:29
Speaker 2: another woman an ice to die, like they'll figure it out,
1:36:32
Speaker 2: Like the men can't figure it out, but we'll do
1:36:34
Speaker 2: our own thing. I like that head canon, and.
1:36:38
Speaker 1: So they're like, you can't pretend nothing's different. It's like
1:36:40
Speaker 1: we don't we have our rules, right, like we we
1:36:42
Speaker 1: try and make sure nobody else does stays we're kind
1:36:45
Speaker 1: of full, Like we're run out of beds.
1:36:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, starting to have a problem with like affordable housing,
1:36:51
Speaker 2: Like it's a whole thing.
1:36:52
Speaker 1: Right, we're barely keeping up with the damage. We can't
1:36:55
Speaker 1: really work at night, right.
1:36:56
Speaker 2: And like their food stores and production goods have to
1:37:00
Speaker 2: all be suffering, right, Their local industries have to be suffering,
1:37:03
Speaker 2: Like they're not getting the work done they would normally
1:37:05
Speaker 2: get done, like spring is happening, right, Like this is bad.
1:37:10
Speaker 2: It's bad for people who live off the land to
1:37:14
Speaker 2: be caught in this kind of loop. They can't do
1:37:15
Speaker 2: their normal stuff.
1:37:17
Speaker 1: Do they need to eat.
1:37:19
Speaker 2: Right, that's the question, because they're eating the food every day,
1:37:22
Speaker 2: they're eating a different load of food every day, but
1:37:25
Speaker 2: they're not able to like yeah, work over night on
1:37:28
Speaker 2: like their animals and plants and stuff.
1:37:33
Speaker 1: But I'm just wondering, like if you didn't eat, would
1:37:35
Speaker 1: you wake up the next day know that not any
1:37:37
Speaker 1: hungrier because you're just reset, I would assume.
1:37:40
Speaker 2: Not, right, Yeah, you'd only have it one day fast
1:37:42
Speaker 2: and then it would reset, right. Yeah, I don't think
1:37:46
Speaker 2: the crops reset because the animals don't. They don't attack
1:37:49
Speaker 2: the animals or any other food stuff. So I think
1:37:51
Speaker 2: that all of that is on a steady trajectory.
1:37:55
Speaker 1: You don't have to worry about like accidentally breaking your
1:37:57
Speaker 1: tools or you know, crushing the crops and your you
1:37:59
Speaker 1: know when you're fighting.
1:38:02
Speaker 2: Right, or like burning down the chicken coop.
1:38:04
Speaker 1: Right right, So they say no fires after dark, that's
1:38:07
Speaker 1: one of the rules.
1:38:08
Speaker 2: So, yeah, they give a whole bunch of their food
1:38:10
Speaker 2: stores to Matt. Maybe they're gonna decide to be like, well,
1:38:12
Speaker 2: what if we just didn't eat, would that be a
1:38:14
Speaker 2: problem because we don't have any food anyway, So I
1:38:16
Speaker 2: guess we can't really starve technically.
1:38:19
Speaker 1: I mean, but I could see it some weird dystopian
1:38:22
Speaker 1: horror where like the dust Bowl happens or something and
1:38:25
Speaker 1: they can't grow any food, but they keep dying of
1:38:27
Speaker 1: starvation and keep resurrecting day after day after day.
1:38:31
Speaker 2: Oof. That would be rough.
1:38:34
Speaker 1: Or you're starving but you can't you can't leave because
1:38:37
Speaker 1: you can't get far enough away to trade with anybody.
1:38:40
Speaker 1: You can't grow your own.
1:38:41
Speaker 2: Food, but you're getting hungrier every day.
1:38:43
Speaker 1: And you're getting hungrier every day.
1:38:45
Speaker 2: Oh, I was imagine that your hunger level would reset
1:38:47
Speaker 2: every day.
1:38:48
Speaker 1: I do too, but like, imagine the horror if it didn't.
1:38:52
Speaker 2: You wake up just long enough to starve to death
1:38:54
Speaker 2: every day. I hate them for putting that picture in
1:38:56
Speaker 2: my head.
1:38:56
Speaker 1: That's awful. It's the same thing as an immortal trapped
1:39:01
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the ocean, right, you wake up
1:39:03
Speaker 1: just long enough to be crushed and suffocate to death.
1:39:05
Speaker 2: Again, I did watch a show that had that mechanic,
1:39:09
Speaker 2: and it has kind of haunted me ever since. Like,
1:39:11
Speaker 2: that was needlessly cruel, even for feuding vampires.
1:39:17
Speaker 1: They talk a little bit about selling him out, and
1:39:19
Speaker 1: he's like, Eh, it's not worth it because we're trapped here,
1:39:21
Speaker 1: so there's no point in selling you out.
1:39:23
Speaker 2: Basically what his logic is, right, We're just like, yeah,
1:39:25
Speaker 2: I'm not a good person, but I'm not so bad
1:39:28
Speaker 2: as to like fuck over everyone in the situation, Like
1:39:31
Speaker 2: I'm good enough to be like, Eh, that doesn't seem practical.
1:39:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I can't really hold you here for long
1:39:37
Speaker 1: enough to keep you know, or lt be part of.
1:39:39
Speaker 2: The right, and we couldn't give you back. If you
1:39:41
Speaker 2: were part of the town, then you would just reappear
1:39:43
Speaker 2: here every night, and that wouldn't do your captors any good.
1:39:46
Speaker 1: So he says, basically, trust Air is a town that
1:39:50
Speaker 1: the pictures are coming from.
1:39:52
Speaker 2: Trust Air. Trust Air is the word trust is right
1:39:56
Speaker 2: in the name of the town, and then Air for
1:39:59
Speaker 2: whatever reason. But it's just like, go to the town
1:40:01
Speaker 2: with trust in the name and you'll definitely find your
1:40:03
Speaker 2: plot device.
1:40:06
Speaker 1: That is a weird name for a town. Yeah, that
1:40:09
Speaker 1: is a weird name for a town. I gotta say. Also,
1:40:12
Speaker 1: you noticed we didn't get any good names of the bars.
1:40:15
Speaker 1: I was expecting like three good bar names in this chapter. Nothing.
1:40:19
Speaker 2: We got one good bar name, the Tipsy Gelding is
1:40:23
Speaker 2: the is the name of the dive bar. But yeah,
1:40:27
Speaker 2: we did not actually get names for the other two
1:40:29
Speaker 2: bars as far as I know.
1:40:31
Speaker 1: And I was looking for him. I was looking for him,
1:40:33
Speaker 1: sorely disappointed. One star zero out of ten.
1:40:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm fine with that. Time that you have a
1:40:43
Speaker 2: town and you don't name every single in that the
1:40:45
Speaker 2: characters even glance at lost opportunity in names are like
1:40:49
Speaker 2: band names, there's an infinity of good ones, and you
1:40:51
Speaker 2: should take every opportunity to use them, not to mention.
1:40:55
Speaker 1: I don't think any of those I said I crossed,
1:40:56
Speaker 1: crossed their arms under their breasts or sniffed at did.
1:41:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's the whole scene we glossed over with that,
1:41:03
Speaker 2: With that and Talmani's like talking about Joline's boobs and
1:41:07
Speaker 2: like we just completely memoryable that because it's stupid and
1:41:10
Speaker 2: bad and we didn't even bother commenting on it. I'm
1:41:13
Speaker 2: pretty sure there was sniffing an armfolding in that, but
1:41:16
Speaker 2: we just both skipped past it because it's dumb and
1:41:18
Speaker 2: we didn't need it.
1:41:20
Speaker 1: I don't even remember skipping it, Yeah, because.
1:41:22
Speaker 2: It's that dumb. I was more than happy to just
1:41:25
Speaker 2: let it go by without comment, Like we didn't need
1:41:27
Speaker 2: any of that. It's a bad dialogue. I love this
1:41:30
Speaker 2: scene broadly. I hate almost all the dialogue that was
1:41:34
Speaker 2: written into it. And yeah, Matt learns that not only
1:41:38
Speaker 2: is he being looked for also paren And yeah, Varren
1:41:42
Speaker 2: is just hanging out in one spot waiting for him
1:41:44
Speaker 2: to come to her, and that's cool. It's a plot
1:41:46
Speaker 2: clue we will be getting to move forward with Matt's plot.
1:41:49
Speaker 2: We know where we're going.
1:41:50
Speaker 1: Now, So he takes his goal, he takes his food. Yeah,
1:41:54
Speaker 1: they should put up a warning or something. Hello, welcome
1:41:56
Speaker 1: to hinterstap We will murder you in the night and
1:41:58
Speaker 1: eat your bloody face if you stay past sunset. Try
1:42:00
Speaker 1: the pies. Martina Bailey makes them fresh daily.
1:42:04
Speaker 2: I love the fucking line. I love Wheel Weekly Newses
1:42:09
Speaker 2: shirts for hinders Tap Try the pies. It's my one
1:42:12
Speaker 2: of my favorite shirts, and all of my shirt collection
1:42:15
Speaker 2: is or No, I don't have that. No, I got
1:42:17
Speaker 2: the sticker for that because I couldn't get the shirt.
1:42:19
Speaker 2: I got the dark Friend's Social shirt. I'm gonna get
1:42:22
Speaker 2: the frickin' pie shirt someday because I only have the
1:42:25
Speaker 2: one sticker and I need the shirt because it's just
1:42:28
Speaker 2: so funny.
1:42:29
Speaker 1: So let me quote your radio. I hate all of
1:42:32
Speaker 1: the dialogue in this chapter except for the one line
1:42:35
Speaker 1: that I have a shirt of Yes, because that's one
1:42:41
Speaker 1: of my favorite lines from the series.
1:42:42
Speaker 2: It's just so funny because then Rob went and made
1:42:47
Speaker 2: the shirt with the sign with the like nineteen fifties
1:42:50
Speaker 2: housewife with the big grin, and it's just like it's
1:42:54
Speaker 2: because of what Rob did with it. I wouldn't think
1:42:56
Speaker 2: this was the best line ever except that Rob yes
1:42:59
Speaker 2: ended it in to real merchandise, and so now it's
1:43:02
Speaker 2: one of the best things that's ever happened. So thank
1:43:07
Speaker 2: you Rob from Wheal Weekly News.
1:43:09
Speaker 1: Yes. No, it's the fantom that makes some of these
1:43:11
Speaker 1: lines really good, because sometimes as they're written, they're just
1:43:14
Speaker 1: a little corny.
1:43:15
Speaker 2: Yes exactly, but if you get enough fandom lore built
1:43:18
Speaker 2: around it. Now we've smoothed off the rough spots.
1:43:21
Speaker 1: Just we put a funny cap on it. Just like
1:43:24
Speaker 1: that's kind of ugly. Let's cover it with a funny
1:43:25
Speaker 1: cap exactly.
1:43:26
Speaker 2: If you just put googly eyes on it, then it's
1:43:28
Speaker 2: so much better. Everything's better with googly eyes.
1:43:33
Speaker 1: Murandy, So we are in Murandi.
1:43:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, Randy, whatever, it's fine.
1:43:38
Speaker 1: It doesn't begin with an A. Your joke doesn't work,
1:43:41
Speaker 1: call back.
1:43:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, Hinders, tap bed and Breakfast. Try
1:43:45
Speaker 2: the pies. We're dying to serve you. That's it, We're
1:43:49
Speaker 2: dying to serve you. It's so good. Try the pies.
1:43:54
Speaker 1: Zombies.
1:43:56
Speaker 2: I'll make sure to put a link to his website
1:43:57
Speaker 2: in the show notes for this one.
1:43:59
Speaker 1: Definitely, are we really going to take the wagon? We
1:44:02
Speaker 1: need the food, Matt said, lashing the chest to the
1:44:04
Speaker 1: back of the wagon. Several large wheels of white cheese
1:44:08
Speaker 1: and half a dozen large legs of mutton lay prominently
1:44:10
Speaker 1: alongside the casks of ale. The food smelled good, and
1:44:13
Speaker 1: his stomach rumbled. I won it fair. He glanced at
1:44:16
Speaker 1: the villagers passing on the street. When he had first
1:44:19
Speaker 1: seen them the day before, he thought the slowness of
1:44:21
Speaker 1: the pace was due to the lazy nature of the
1:44:23
Speaker 1: Mountain villagers. Now it struck him that there was another
1:44:27
Speaker 1: reason entirely. He turned back to his work checking the
1:44:30
Speaker 1: horses harnesses, and I don't feel a bit bad taking
1:44:33
Speaker 1: the wagon and horses. I doubt these villagers are going
1:44:36
Speaker 1: to be doing much traveling in the future, which is
1:44:40
Speaker 1: kind of funny because they are going to travel to
1:44:42
Speaker 1: the last battle. Well yeah, but yeah, they're not going
1:44:48
Speaker 1: very far.
1:44:50
Speaker 2: No, no, this is where they're going to be until
1:44:54
Speaker 2: the end.
1:44:55
Speaker 1: So that's always fun. I feel like that's that's the
1:44:57
Speaker 1: best that like Sanderson did in terms of like writing
1:45:01
Speaker 1: these action sequences, Right, they're just fun, fun sequences that
1:45:05
Speaker 1: really kind of show you. I don't know, I feel
1:45:08
Speaker 1: like he does a good job with matsw We criticize
1:45:10
Speaker 1: him a lot about Matt's character, and I think it's
1:45:12
Speaker 1: the dialogue is so bad, but what Matt's actually doing
1:45:15
Speaker 1: is pretty in character, and I think that's where I
1:45:17
Speaker 1: tend to forgive him a little bit more.
1:45:20
Speaker 2: On Matt, it's good.
1:45:22
Speaker 1: Action because he's you know, throwing himself into danger to
1:45:26
Speaker 1: save his allies depending on his luck. Like it is,
1:45:29
Speaker 1: some of it's just a little it's just a dialogue
1:45:32
Speaker 1: feels so immature, and like the way he's thinking about
1:45:35
Speaker 1: the One Power and the way he's thinking, it's like, again,
1:45:37
Speaker 1: this is where we really have to look at what
1:45:38
Speaker 1: Matt's doing versus what he's thinking, because his thoughts feel
1:45:41
Speaker 1: very juvenile. But I feel like his actions still feel
1:45:44
Speaker 1: like normal hero Matt.
1:45:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is interesting how his literal actions are generally
1:45:53
Speaker 2: in line. It's just how he interacts with the entire
1:45:57
Speaker 2: verbal part of the plot, both with himself and others,
1:46:02
Speaker 2: where it's weird. But if he's just in his body
1:46:04
Speaker 2: doing stuff, then it makes sense and it's fine. But yeah, no,
1:46:10
Speaker 2: this is just such a spectacular action sequence and horror sequence,
1:46:14
Speaker 2: and there's a little bit of weird character stuff in it,
1:46:17
Speaker 2: but it's buried under all the good just swords swing
1:46:22
Speaker 2: in good time. Like there's not a lot of meaningful
1:46:25
Speaker 2: plot forwarding. You know, this is very much like could
1:46:28
Speaker 2: be a standalone short story, like I was saying, but.
1:46:33
Speaker 1: But it's got the fun callback in the last battle.
1:46:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got the fun callback in the last battle.
1:46:37
Speaker 2: And it's just it's just a really good showcase of
1:46:40
Speaker 2: Sanderson's skill at working in the world. He's not so
1:46:43
Speaker 2: good with the big characters. But when you just give
1:46:45
Speaker 2: him the fabric of the world and say, like play
1:46:48
Speaker 2: with it, like, nah, he's good at that part. It's uh,
1:46:52
Speaker 2: it's fun. It's very fun.
1:46:54
Speaker 1: No, I will never say he's not a masterful writer, right, Like,
1:46:57
Speaker 1: he's just he's just a different writer than Jordan. You know.
1:47:00
Speaker 1: They write with a different style and a different level
1:47:03
Speaker 1: of complexity and a different level of different number of layers.
1:47:07
Speaker 1: It's like the difference between like a ten layer cake
1:47:09
Speaker 1: and like a just you know, cheesecake, right.
1:47:11
Speaker 2: Like totally on a whole different thing. You can't compare them, really,
1:47:15
Speaker 2: we're trying to. Because they literally wrote the same books.
1:47:18
Speaker 2: We are sort of forced into a situation of comparing
1:47:20
Speaker 2: apples and oranges, but like they are still apples and oranges.
1:47:25
Speaker 2: But I had fun today. This was a good returning,
1:47:28
Speaker 2: a good episode. Some fat tangents that did not make
1:47:31
Speaker 2: it through to the final final episode.
1:47:34
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank thank you for getting those. I appreciate that.
1:47:37
Speaker 2: But yeah, this was a great time. I definitely encourage
1:47:40
Speaker 2: everyone to continue checking us out on social media and
1:47:43
Speaker 2: my SOF war group on Thursdays and all the other
1:47:47
Speaker 2: podcasts that I may or may not be creating at
1:47:49
Speaker 2: any given time. Yes, shout out to Harvey being a
1:47:52
Speaker 2: very good dog. Oh very fun icon being produced live
1:47:57
Speaker 2: and chat by Religion. Thank you and love that flame
1:48:00
Speaker 2: makes sense, that's awesome.
1:48:02
Speaker 1: The tripping blood hinders tack always nice.
1:48:05
Speaker 2: Fantastic, And yeah that's all I've really got for today.
1:48:11
Speaker 1: That was a fun one. That was a lot of
1:48:12
Speaker 1: pages to cover, but it was one big scene, so
1:48:16
Speaker 1: I'm glad we did it all at once. So see
1:48:19
Speaker 1: you guys next time.
1:49:06
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
1:49:10
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1:49:17
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