Latest / She Speaks to Scale / 5. From Burnout to Broadcast Confidence: with Radio Host and Podcaster Kelly Saward
Transcript
- Sarah Collins: Hi Kelly. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm really, really looking forward to our conversation. Kelly Saward: Me too, thank you so much for having me, Sarah. Sarah Collins: My guest today is Kelly Saywood, who is a UK-based wellbeing specialist, broadcaster and founder of Room 478. Thank you for listening to this episode of She Speaks to Scale. If you liked the episode or you think it will be useful for someone else, please follow and leave a review. If you've got any questions, do let me know via the social handles in the show notes. And remember to speak with intention, not hesitation, and let your voice be heard. Now I asked this at the top of every episode. Can you share the moment you realized your voice truly mattered? Kelly Saward: I think if I'm honest with you, and I don't know if many people can relate, it was the point where I was almost just tired of trying to say the same thing in a multitude of ways. And you know, when you're ⁓ to say something and it's not landing, and then I remember very clearly being sat in a space sharing something that was important to me with people that I didn't even know. ⁓ Sarah Collins: Hello and welcome to She Speaks to Scale with me, Sarah Collins. The podcast that empowers women in business to own their voice, be heard and create impact, one communication insight at a time. I'm a media trainer and communication coach and a former senior television producer. It's my mission to bring the communication skills we need to thrive in today's world of business to the generation of women who simply weren't taught them. She creates supportive spaces where people can be heard and share their voice safely, helping individuals and organizations build confidence, resilience, and emotional wellbeing through mindfulness and conversation. She is also the author of Desperate to Be Loved. Kelly Saward: And a woman said to me, that's really ⁓ because I feel that way. And I thought, ⁓ okay. What I have to say here isn't just sounds, ⁓ know, ⁓ does matter. It's just environment and people's life circumstance. And I started to go on a real deep dive, but I think for a very long time I had fallen into ⁓ dead space ⁓ on ⁓ Sarah Collins: Whether it's scaling your voice to step into thought leadership in a media interview, speaking with confidence on camera, on stage and beyond, or scaling the way you communicate when it really counts. This podcast will help you use your voice to be heard in the moments that matter. Through her radio and podcasting work, Kelly leads honest, thought-provoking discussions on mental health, personal growth, and modern wellbeing, bringing a grounded perspective shaped by her professional background and lived experience. In this episode, we discuss the power of self-belief, interviewing from a place of intuition, and how to stay grounded when the pressure is on, amongst many other things. Let's dive into the conversation. Kelly Saward: So it was that conversation I had and I think it's relatable content, isn't it? When someone can relate to what you're saying, it kind of strengthens the belief within yourself. Sarah Collins: it's interesting, isn't it? How we, pick up on one certain point ⁓ that we really feel like we've been heard, is, is the reason for asking that question. in the research that I conducted about you, you ⁓ said that anxiety was present for a big part your life. And I wonder if that was the reason for perhaps you not feeling like you were heard. Tell me a little bit more about that. Kelly Saward: I'm growing up I had conflicting times with mental health in my family. and that was never shared or So never talked about it really in the depth that people share things today. So there was always a lot of silence, shame ⁓ and no conversations around what was happening, which found really difficult. And at the time in the situations, it would appear I was functioning growing up reasonably well, maybe a bit challenging teen, all these kinds of things. But then when I got older and I had my own children, started to feel really anxious about, you know, there's normal parent anxiety around children and things like that, but it kind of took over. So my way of coping was sort of essentially becoming a hypochondriac. ⁓ anything health related, I would obsess. And even now actually, if I have a really difficult time in life, which we all experience, I notice my patterning going back to focusing on something with my health instead. That's the loop. And yeah, it just took over. But people outwardly never really saw that, because I'm quite smiley and often look quite happy. Underneath, yeah, there's a lot of anxiety. It's all consuming. Sarah, it was awful. Sarah Collins: It's exhausting, I can imagine when you think like that. How do you think that then presented itself when it came to using your voice? So you had those thoughts internally, but what did that mean for you in terms of being heard? Kelly Saward: ⁓ no. I think I was embarrassed for a period of time. think that shame loop came back round. I didn't want to share exactly what I was feeling a lot of the time, because I was embarrassed how it would be interpreted. I've always been a bit of a talker. I've always in some ways shared my voice, but not the true one, not the one that really mattered. And I think that's the same for a lot of us. We can present in situations and spaces and share things to try and fit in. Is that really what's... you know, coming from deep inside, often not, I think. So for me, yeah, I realized that I did a lot of people pleasing with my voice. Initially, I'd say what I thought fitted to that environment. And it was quite scary to start using my real voice and share it. Sarah Collins: So what you're talking about there, I just wrote something down, was almost like, you're like masking, you're masking what you're truly feeling. fascinates because obviously you're someone that went into broadcasting ⁓ and you're your voice ⁓ as a to be able to broadcast to the nation ⁓ on a wide scale. Kelly Saward: Well, Yeah. Sarah Collins: How did you then overcome that mask? Again, was there a defining point? Kelly Saward: Yes, so I reached breaking point essentially. And I knew I've always written, my whole life I've always written to essentially hear my own voice. That's what I think of writing as. It's the safe space to listen to what I have to say. I published my first book through a lot of the notes and stuff I'd written. And I hit rock bottom with it really where I couldn't actually cope. And I, I cope. pretty well in a lot of difficult situations, but this particular point I couldn't and I thought I've got to do something. So I'd already attended a couple of eight week mindfulness courses. And then I went back and did a third one and I tried to meditate myself over a period of time, thought it was a waste of time, didn't think I had time for that, kids life, know, was like, it's a waste of my time sitting down. this particular time I was like, now I've really got to do something now. So I did start meditating again. And that very slowly, that with writing came in and then I was so passionate about the changes that began to show months later. Because that's the real key thing for me as well about mindfulness and meditation is that people think that we have to have results and it brings you stuff. Whereas it does the reverse, it takes all the noise, the anxiety and the stress away. but on the tin, that's not very productive for the world we live in. So I know we're catching up now, but I think that was the point. So I then trained to do the mindfulness teacher training and become a mindfulness teacher. And then I started holding groups. And essentially my meditation groups are no different than the conversations I have on the radio. I just want people to be truly heard for what's inside safely. Yeah. So was, that was the turning point. I started holding my groups. Then I was interviewed myself about my book and my story and the work I did. yeah, people were like, ⁓ you're good at this. ⁓ you should do more of it. And I thought, yeah, I'm actually going to believe in myself for a change. ⁓ then it just snowballed from there. I some podcasting, got my radio show, did more and more work there. Bit of work for the radio's in London now as well. And yeah, it's just, I love it. I love talking to people. ⁓ Sarah Collins: I mean, that journey really makes me smile. Firstly, because I can completely resonate with that. I felt like I didn't truly, really speak my truth until I left the corporate world and started my own business. And I put myself in those situations where I could really talk about what I wanted to talk about. And so what you're saying there, just, it really is on a par with my journey as well. Kelly Saward: Yeah. Sarah Collins: I imagine the meditation groups, you found those spaces where you could obviously open up and speak as well. That must've been really useful at that time. Kelly Saward: It was so powerful, yeah, because I think ⁓ a big part of mindfulness as well, when you're teaching or delivering any group or even working one-to-one, it's usually broken up into different sections. And part of that will always be sort of like a practice, a sharing, you know, what you get from each other, as well as many other things. But stories and poems are really important in mindfulness because somebody might, you know, dive into a meditation. and it might not resonate or someone might love running or swimming and be able to get into that kind of meditative state in that space. But some people, they'll hear a song, like a poem or a story, and it just, it takes them and you can really relate. And I write a lot of poems myself. I always have to kind of make sense of my own words. And yeah, that is what I find was when I started to share. So I'd share a poem. And then I started to share my own poems and people at the end were like, that's how I feel. And they were like, who wrote it? And I was like, ⁓ that was me. then we kind of then, I think if one person shares, if you're in a safe space, yeah, it then kind of is a ripple effect, isn't it? Sarah Collins: I've not spoken to anyone yet who describes it as kind of sharing their voice and speaking their truth through and storytelling. So I find that really fascinating. I'm not a big writer. ⁓ I struggle with writing. So that side of things, doesn't really come that naturally. But I imagine for someone who loves to write. You know, being able to write your story is, I can imagine it's probably so beneficial to you and to the people hearing it as well. Kelly Saward: Yeah, I think so. It's freeing having a space to be able to share something that's meaningful, that's real without worrying about being judged. And I think that's the whole mindful aspect as well, because even the principle behind mindfulness is said by, John Kabat-Zinn and a lot of other leaders that have brought it over to the West, it's that being present on purpose without judgment. And that's what I think when I write is the same. Like I can just be really present with whatever I want to say. I can spill it out. I don't have to filter it. I don't have to think if it's going to hurt anyone's feelings or how it might affect other people because I don't want to hurt other people. But equally, I'm feeling what I'm feeling. ⁓ So it's to air it. Sarah Collins: you mentioned there about self-belief. And I really feel like from my own experiences that can often be quite an extensive journey to get to a place where you really believe in yourself. What would be your kind of top tips, I guess, for someone who is lacking that self belief and wants to be heard and understood? What would you say? Kelly Saward: Well, I haven't shared this widely actually. So I've written my first book. I don't know if we'll talk about that, but I'm just about to publish my second one. And it links with my podcast, which is called, You Hear Me? So when we think about self-belief, I don't think we're really hearing the true words. ⁓ on from the mindfulness and meditation teacher training, I went in to do more deep, compassionate inquiry, yoga nidra. and eye restoration and things like that. And a lot of the way I work is to dive into what is really felt. So with self-belief, for example, if anyone's struggling with it, I think we need to welcome that. Because we're pushing things away all the time, all the time we're pushing things away and it's just causing resistance. So anything I struggle with now, I kind of, I'm like, okay, why am I? doubting this. Why do I not believe in myself? What is it? What part of my body is speaking to me now? So that's what I would say to anyone initially. If you're lacking in self-belief, just, okay, fine. Lack the self-belief, but actually let yourself feel it. Don't just think, ⁓ I don't believe in myself and then just let it linger and not let it be seen. We need to see the self-belief and what it's trying to say. Sarah Collins: you Kelly Saward: And then from there, you can start unraveling what's actually present. It's like anger. Anger's just a secondary emotion. There's always something beneath anger. Like children are branded naughty when they're angry, which is so unfair. Anger comes up as is easy. And it's like the initial expression, but actually what's beneath the anger, what's beneath the lack of self-belief, you know? Sarah Collins: Mm. Kelly Saward: is that I would say, so like, let it in. So I would say, let it in. Sarah Collins: No, no, I really like that way of thinking. What I would say to you though is obviously you're a broadcaster, you're a radio host, you're podcast host. People listening might think, well, how can you lack self-belief? You must have an abundance of self-belief. What would you say to that? Kelly Saward: Yeah. It's not true, it really isn't. I think we all feel things and you know there's the classic feel the fear and do it anyway. I do believe in myself a lot more now. I must say I have got to a point where I do feel confident in certain situations and it's not about feeling confident to do a better job than anyone else. I just have so much passion for what the kind of conversations create that I can't not do it. It's gone beyond what the actual job is. It's actually, no, I want someone to really be able to say what's inside so other people feel safe enough to do the same. So the confidence comes from making the difference, making the change. It kind of has taken over the doubt. So it's still there, but now, like the scales are kind of balancing out and then it's just a little bit louder. I'm like, right, I'm running with that now, you know? Sarah Collins: Yeah, I can totally resonate with that. I think in TV, you you spent so many years telling other people's stories ⁓ ⁓ never told my story, but now kind of having that platform and being able to help other people share their stories, tell my story, just that, belief, like you said, is just overtaken, overtaken the fear of not doing it. Kelly Saward: Yeah. Sarah Collins: Now through your podcasts and obviously your broadcasting as well, it was described in the articles that I found about you, that you create space for honest conversations and a space for diverse voices to be heard. Why is creating that space so important to you? Kelly Saward: because I don't feel I had it. Sarah Collins: Mm. Kelly Saward: It's that simple. I felt like I've spent a lot of time trying to get my point across to be told that I'm too much. It's not the right time. Does it have to be now? Can I be quieter? and actually, no. ⁓ yeah, ⁓ like is the time. I feel if something's really important, someone wouldn't try and say something in 55,000 different ways if it didn't matter. Sarah Collins: Good. Kelly Saward: Of course there's a time and a place and I acknowledge sometimes I could say what I need to say in less words, that's a fact. Absolutely. And I've noticed that through my writing as well when my books have been edited, ⁓ often I will repeat something almost identical to what I've said a couple of paragraphs before, but just in a different way. And they're like, yeah, you've said this but it just mirrors in my life. got to the point now where I think those spaces are really important and that's why we need more and more because I'll create a space for someone that isn't comfortable for someone else and people won't relate to me, like as will you and as will other people and I think more people need to be holding spaces for people to be heard ⁓ so that connections can form it's essential. I say this to my children all the time, I always want them to be able to come home and whatever the thing is, there's no shame or embarrassment to share it because it's okay, whatever it is, it can be here and we've got it, you know? And that's what I feel is important, these honest conversations, because we're all feeling stuff and when it's trapped inside... It goes into the body and that's where we get like dis-ease, like disease is essentially when we're not at ease with who we are or what we're facing. So everyone has challenges. I have had a reasonable amount in my life and I think the difficulty isn't the challenge, it's the not being able to feel it or express it. That's the actual real hard part. Sarah Collins: I equally think it's so important to hold space for others' perspectives to be heard as well. sometimes we can be so in our own bubbles, can't we, that we just think of like our opinions, what we want to say, but it's so important to hear from other people's points of views, opinions, perspectives. Kelly Saward: ⁓ Yeah. Sarah Collins: So you said something there about authenticity and that having authentic conversations is part of the mission behind what you do. What do you mean when it comes to you know, bringing someone's authentic voice out. Cause it's very much what I do in my work as well. What does that mean to you? Kelly Saward: Well, I think something you said there, is important as well, is like different people's perspectives. So we are always learning, aren't we? And we might disagree on things. If someone might share something and I might not understand it. And a long time ago, I wouldn't have asked the question. I wouldn't have been brave enough because I wouldn't have wanted to look stupid. Whereas now I'm beyond that. So the authentic voice for me is I just want to really hear the truth of why people are where they are. That's what I want. And I noticed that when I do any interview, rightly or wrongly, I don't really plan much. And I am quite spiritual. I've always been quite spiritually minded and I like to trust my intuition. So I'm led by that, like strongly, and I can sense and feel a lot of things. So I go by that. Might sound a bit, woo, but it's part of who I am. And I think in that space, whenever I share a conversation with someone, whatever the thing was right back way back when is often at the forefront of what they're doing now. And that is what I love. I think that's the authentic person that a 10, 14 year old, know, Kelly or Sarah or whoever is now. is now here as well, know, they're saying that that part that wasn't listened to is also here as well and that's the authentic self. Sarah Collins: about stepping into the whole person, isn't it? And accepting ⁓ that, know, this is where I've come from. This is where I am now. And how you move forwards from that. Kelly Saward: Yeah. Absolutely, Sarah Collins: part of the work I do, Kelly, is obviously around media training. So it's really fascinating to me that you talk about conducting interviews from intuition. It's ⁓ something I've not really come across I was actually recently on a radio and they didn't give me questions, ⁓ which was prepared for. How do your guests ⁓ find kind of way of being interviewed? Kelly Saward: Well, I have had bit of ⁓ resistance, a bit of fear, I have, and it's genuinely not me being lazy because I've had a lady quite early on. I remember she brought me a massive list of what she wanted to talk about. Things, events that were coming up, things that were important to her, points that she didn't want to miss. she it to me, I didn't read it. on purpose and then she arrived and she had the list printed out and she said, if you read my list and I said, I haven't because it's really important that I go from what my heart says here but we will check in halfway through the interview and look at your list and if you're not happy with where we've got to or we've missed anything, we will absolutely cover it but for now you're just gonna need to just trust me. and we covered it all without looking at the list. So it was fine. And of course it is a bit but like a meditation group, when people come and sit in that space and we all sit in a circle and everyone's got their mats out, my intention before I even go into a meditation is for people to feel safe. And it's the same in the radio. When they come in that door, I want them to feel safe. So I would never just like, Sarah Collins: Yeah. Kelly Saward: put them live on air feeling terrified. You know, we'd have a conversation and we'd talk it through and we'd go bit by bit. And then when we put a track on, we'll check in. So it's kind of similar thing. Sarah Collins: Thank you. with radio, ⁓ you also conduct an interview online, can't you? So there's not that face-to-face ⁓ interaction. you can't have a conversation with the presenter beforehand. So how do you deal with that in terms of making that guest feel comfortable ⁓ and Kelly Saward: Well, usually all the ones I've done online have been via Zoom. So I will get to see their face in the moment when they come on. But again, when they come on, I'll have a few minutes before I'll have a track playing and I'll do a quick check-in and go, this is how we're going to roll. I'm going to ask you a few questions. We'll play another track. there's anything we miss, we'll cover it, ready to go. Here we are. And then I just hope for the best. Sarah Collins: you're coming from a place of intention. ⁓ So those conversations that you're what would you say makes a good guest? Kelly Saward: I think anyone that's open makes a good guest. Anyone that can trust themselves and me to the best they can and just be present, that makes a good guest because everyone has got a story. I interviewed someone I know's husband who just opened an IT business and my actual core radio show is called The Nature Nurture Show because it's all about wellbeing. and people are in that network because of what I do. And he said, ⁓ I'd love to talk about my business. And I was like, sure, wanted to support him. And his story, again, it comes back to that same place, you know, how he'd struggled as a ⁓ to support his family and setting up a business and how that feels to feel like you have to be the one to provide. And there's so much in everyone if they're just prepared to share it if they feel safe enough to do so. And I think That is what I can reasonably confidently say now I feel has become my skill is to make people feel safe to share with me, like something real. And that's all I really want. Sarah Collins: wonderful. And I think people sharing their stories, stories are always remembered, aren't they, more than the kind of facts that we share and all the information ⁓ we say as well. yeah, ⁓ are so incredibly powerful, aren't they? Kelly Saward: Yeah. Yeah, we have to keep sharing, I think. You know, even like from young when we're children and then reading to our children, everyone's read a story at some point in their lives or hear it at school. And it's just somewhere you can just go off and connect to something, whatever that is, however small it is, it's just so powerful. Sarah Collins: Mm. How do you ground yourself or prepare yourself for say like your radio show? Have you got any kind of coping strategies or just rituals that you do? What do you do ahead of that time? Kelly Saward: Well, I do meditate regularly. don't actually have a ⁓ meditation time. A lot of people that lead meditation or encourage people will say, have a certain time, ⁓ my radio structure, the meditation structure is the same. I when I feel I need to pause, I will. And actually on my radio show at 11.11, because the show is usually 10 till 12. ⁓ At I always do a mindful minute. on the show and I think it's so important. I would say to anyone if they feel lack of self-belief, want to prepare themselves for anything, even if you don't meditate, to use the technique 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, which is where we can tap into our senses. five things you can see, it's brilliant in a panic attack as well, or just being more mindful of what's around you. Four things you can hear, three things you can touch, Two things you can smell and one thing you can taste. And you're just straight away you're in, I do that often. even when I'm walking in, or feel like big heavy metal ⁓ on my feet. That kind of sensation of just being here now, Sarah Collins: I ⁓ that. I've not heard of that one before, but I will definitely start using that now. ⁓ think there's a real element of, ⁓ the people perhaps listening to this podcast where, you you might be in a situation where you need to speak ⁓ that panic sets in. So actually having techniques like that where you can draw upon in that moment are so important. So thank you for sharing that with us. Kelly Saward: ... Mmm. You're welcome. Sarah Collins: What's kind of one myth that you would love to dispel about perhaps what you do? Kelly Saward: think that, you know, being prepared ⁓ having it all together because like you asked earlier on in the conversation, yes, I might appear quite confident talking to you and I'm here saying, ⁓ I'm doing this on the radio or I've shared this story, I've written this book. ⁓ don't go through a whole day ever where I don't doubt myself ⁓ ⁓ if it's a tiny part. I think the myth is that we're always going to feel fear, we're always going to have doubt, and we're always going to think someone can probably do it better than us. I think if you don't have those things, it's not normal, then you fall into an ego space, and then the authenticity is lost. I I question myself all the time. I've just written this other book and thought, is this rubbish? Should I actually do it? But I know how much it means to me. you when I'm on the radio at the end of the conversation, I think, ⁓ did I ask enough questions? Did I cover that? But I've just got to trust in my process. So the myth is I don't think we ever completely don't feel these things. And I don't think we're aiming for a space where that's the goal. I think we're just aiming for the voice is louder that believes than doesn't. That's all I would say. Sarah Collins: Hmm. I've had to learn to hear that, but then just move on. Do you do a similar thing? Kelly Saward: absolutely. I mean, I've had a few difficult things pop into my life recently and I question my choices all the time or if I could have done something more or better. And yeah, I just have to just keep going. Sarah Collins: Kelly, how can people listen to your show or find out more about you? Kelly Saward: Okay, so I'll do the quick spiel, Sarah. my regular show and my main show is on Marlowe FM. So I'm usually on once a week, it varies between a Tuesday and a Wednesday between 10 and 12 on Good Morning Marlowe. I was on today. Next week, I'm on on Tuesday. So it varies a bit. And I do drive time on a Friday, but that isn't conversations. That's just glorified fun with music and things like that. So I love that. Sarah Collins: Go on. Kelly Saward: or I've got my podcast, ⁓ which I'm to be delighted to welcome you onto soon. ⁓ Can you me? So it's on all the platforms, Spotify, Apple, all the places. ⁓ And my websites for broadcasting, it's my name, Kelly Saywood, S-A-W-A-R-D, dot com. ⁓ And for all my wellbeing stuff, it's Room 478 and details of my book are on there. My current book is already on there, Desperate to Be Loved. My new book will be on there by the beginning of June. Exciting. Yeah, that's everything I think. Sarah Collins: So Kelly, just to wrap up the episode, I'd like to ask my guests to complete the blank. If you could encourage listeners to speak with, whether that's a word or a phrase, just a little golden nugget of inspiration they can take away with them, what would you say? Kelly Saward: I have to say, speak with love. I feel everything comes back to love, personally. That's why I call my book, Desperate to Be Loved. I'm a heart-led person, having a human experience. I lead from here. So, yeah, speak with love. To yourself, most importantly as well, because we give ourselves a really hard time and I don't think we would actually speak to our friends and family the way we speak to ourselves half the time, so. Sarah Collins: Stay true. Kelly Saward: Yes, I love all the way. Sarah Collins: ⁓ I love that. Thank you so much, Kelly. I've really enjoyed our conversation. Kelly Saward: Yeah, Meaty, thank you for having me.