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JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 294 - He Said....She Said · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

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  Section one oh seven of the Fair Use Act of nineteen seventy six provides protection
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  to use copyrighted material for research, analysis, education, and commentary purposes.
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  We hear at Loose Moose Productions reserve that right now, on with the show.
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  Here's Joe b and the Triple b Hey Andrew Deane House things in Texas.
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  Everything is going to hail down here in Dustice, Janz, Jimmy and
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  Joey, Joey and then Joey Yummy and Joey Rock, John Gay, Joy
• 0:39
  and Joey, Joey and jim and Joy and Joey Rap, Joggy Joe rat
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  Shine Here and here we go, and here we go and here we go.
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  Indeed, we may be a little late, but we're here. This
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  is episode two ninety four. It's all about that, he says. She
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  said, you know what, you know what, you know what Joe I
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  do anyway, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome everyone. We're happy you joined us
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  today and you're able to I know it's a little bit different, but due
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  to some lemony snickets type series of unfortunate events, we were now I was
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  not able to go live Friday night, nor was I able to communicate So
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  that being said and problems being fixed, we are here now with you today.
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  So to all those out there, I apologize sincerely for the slight delay
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  in programming, but we are here back in full effect. Hallelujah, Praise
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  Jeebus. Amen. Anyway, Joe, how you doing, buddy? I
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  am doing well and I just wanted to say Happy Father's Day, sir.
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  Ah. Yes, and happy Father's Day to all the fathers in our chat
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  and who are subscribed and who watched our show and appreciate all you. Happy
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  Father's Day to one and all. I'm blessed to be twice a father,
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  I guess ah, and uh yeah, it's it's awesome and uh you know,
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  I wouldn't trade it for the world. And I believe Joe would like
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  to share with everyone a picture to celebrate his father's Day. Yeah, I
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  just thought give some tribute to his his ether. Yeah, I'm just I'm
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  not going to say my father is no longer with us. So happy Father's
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  Day in heaven, sir. Yes, thank you for giving the triple B
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  to us, which one am. I rob I guessed wrong at the beginning,
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  but I know that your father had very good taste in football. Teams.
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  You know what, that's really funny because I thought of that when I
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  was thinking of sharing this picture. I thought it would be funny. He
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  actually was working as a congressional aid at that point in DC, which I
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  think explains. Oh, it was probably a free T shirt. Then yeah,
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  is that a V neck? It is a V neck. I thought
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  it was like a jersey type thing. But it's not a jersey. Is
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  it old school V neck T shirt? They don't make them like they used
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  to on merch So yeah, that is me rocking this sweet mustache the little
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  job. Yes, and he still has that mustache like a lot of people
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  everywhere. And if you would like to see Joe Borelli with a sweet mustache,
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  comment in the comments section below and he will hone it in for you
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  next week. It will be live and in person for one one show only,
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  so make sure you hit it in over the comments. We get at
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  least ten comments and say mustache. He's gonna have to do it deep state
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  Joe. Yes, your true roots have been exposed. Yes, I know,
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  And since it's not Friday, you know, we can't have a fun
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  fact Friday. But I do have something that I'd like it's a minute in
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  fifteen seconds that I would like everyone to take heed and just just listen very
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  carefully, because it's very true. And you know, we get we get
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  caught up in small daily things all the time, and this is just a
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  reminder to you about what life is. So here you go. I hope
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  you enjoy. I hope this works. I hope you can hear it.
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  Have you ever thought about this? In one hundred years, so like twenty
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  one twenty three, we will all be buried with our families and friends.
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  Strangers will live in our homes that we worked so hard to build, and
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  someone else will own everything we have today. Most of our possessions will be
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  given away or thrown out and destroyed, including the car that we spend our
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  fortune on, and we'll probably be scrapped. Our descendants will hardly know who
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  we are, nor will they remember us. How mean, how many of
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  us know who our grandfather's father was. After we die, we will be
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  remembered for a few more years, and then we're just a portrait on someone's
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  wall, and a few decades later, our history, photos and deeds disappear
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  into histories. Oblivia, we won't even be memories. If we pause one
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  day to analyze these questions, perhaps we would understand how pointless it is for
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  us to worry about ninety five percent of the things that consume our minds daily.
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  If we could only think about this, surely our approaches, our thoughts
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  would change, and we would do things differently. Perhaps we would feel more
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  free to enjoy ourselves and our lives that we're living. And remember the saying,
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  if it's not going to matter in five years, don't spend more than
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  five minutes being upset by it, have you, Very true, sir,
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  very true. Yeah, So that's your daily reminder. Don't sweat the small
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  stuff, folks, because it's not going to matter. It doesn't matter in
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  the big scheme of things. Just enjoy your life right now because like she
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  said, you know, like within one hundred years, you'll be long forgotten.
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  Nothing you have will be around every you want to be a memory,
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  you know, So take that for what it's worth and enjoy your list people,
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  And we're glad that you're enjoying it right now here with us, because
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  this is what we enjoy doing, is uh, you know, taking a
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  little bit of time out of our busy weeks, and and hanging out with
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  you guys and talking a little JFKA. Highlight of my week, that's for
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  sure. And I think that's a good segue because we have to thank mister
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  John Naylor who also gave a super chat on Friday as well. So thank
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  you for both of those, John, and of course, bless you,
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  bless of course, Hi to everyone in the chat. Garden and Guns,
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  no True Flags, Paul psb Odyssey, Tiny Dancer of course, Sally,
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  Oh that's me and Bjordan. See I didn't I got that one. Capeche
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  is a very hard word to read when you're like in it thinking about different
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  thing else. I'm still embarrassed by that one. So and we only got
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  a couple of mustaches. So I think the show's not over and this will
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  be the live chat will be replayed. Hi, yes, Hi Scott,
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  and uh, thank you Tiny to answer you are the best. Yeah,
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  we I believe it handsome looks in a mustache. Well, the first week,
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  the first show we did, I had a beer because I had a
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  beer at Lancer, that's for sure. I think the one we did on
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  the twenty second and uh, you know, it's funny because the start time
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  I think we did a couple of Sunday mornings early on too, we did
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  we did it or was it Saturday mornings? I don't know. I can't
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  remember. I think we did, yeah, probably before we set it on
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  Friday evenings being the best. But anyway, it's Sunday and it's Father's Day,
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  and we're glad you guys are here hanging out. So let's get right
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  into a joe without further idea. Let's do it, all right, So
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  this is what she said, because she said her name is Mary Woodward.
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  Now have you ever heard the name Joe Mary Woodward as a Deally Plaza witness?
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  To be honest, No, and neither had I before I came across
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  this. So I came across something in an old Deep Politics quarterly magazine written
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  by Jan Stevens concerning Mary Woodward. Okay, so, Deally Plaza eyewitness.
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  Mary Woodward was a reporter for the Dallas Morning News in nineteen sixty three,
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  for the Women's News page, because they didn't get to write about anything other
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  than women's news. Back in nineteen sixty three, apparently, along with her
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  coworkers Anna Donaldson Aurelia and Margaret Brown, she took a position on the north
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  side of Elm Street, near where Bill and Gale Newman were standing, and
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  Emmett Hudson by the grassy knoll, there to view the President Kennedy's motorcate.
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  Although she was not called not called to testify before the Warren Commission, she
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  did give a deposition to the FBI, as recorded by Special Agents David Berry
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  and Henry Oliver on December sixth. So this is a female witness standing right
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  near Bill and Gale Newman, not called to the Warren Commission like Bill and
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  Gale Newman. And these are some of the people that are closest to the
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  limousine at the time of the shots, Joe. So right after the assassination,
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  Mary wrote her account of the sling for her paper, which appeared in
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  the November twenty third edition. Woodward said, there was a horrible ear shadowing
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  noise coming from behind us and a little to the right. Okay, So
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  picture yourself as Mary were standing facing the street, not Bill and Gale Newman
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  or to her right. That's okay. So what area of the park there
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  is behind her and to the right, Joe, Uh, that would be
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  the picket sense of course. Yes, the grassy no area, Yes,
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  yes, okay, and Rob yes, my kind of near where we were
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  talking about. The puddles could have possibly been pools of blood, and that
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  like steps up there, because Newman would have been in your right stall right.
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  No, Newman wasn't that far down, and they were closer to the
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  road. The pool of blood was like up at the top of the steps
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  area, got it, thank you so, Attempting to clarify, stating that
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  this was above her head and possibly behind her, Woodward's perceptions speak for themselves,
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  and thus place a shot from the no area. Therefore, it's hard
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  to fathom why bureau agents would write this up as possibly behind her. In
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  nineteen eighty eight, Woodward was interviewed for the Nigel Turner documentary The Men Who
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  Killed Kennedy and confirmed her story once again, telling how after witnessing the assassination,
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  she went back to her newspaper office highly agitated and obviously quite upset.
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  Let's look at her account as she told it to Turner's peoples. She said,
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  they first of all took me to the office nurse and had me have
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  a tranquilizer because they thought I was somewhat hysterical. I'm a hysterical female,
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  Joe, I need a tranquilizer. Somebody shut this woman up, give her
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  a shot. So she got it on to the twenty second. Yeah,
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  she went back to the newspaper office and she was I don't know, she
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  was highly upset, so they tranked her. Who knew the newspaper had those
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  kind of reserves. Hey, you mean these women get out of hand in
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  nineteen sixty three, Joe, you got to have something in hand, you
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  know. Yeah. I think I was behaving quite rationally under the circumstances,
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  she said. But anyhow, I then sat down and wrote the story while
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  she's tranked, and actually had completed the story before the news was absolutely confirmed
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  that he was even dead. So the story was absolutely my own impressions.
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  It was not from anything anyone had said or what I had read or heard.
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  Some things I have often said I would hate to before a court of
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  law or before God. But one thing I'm totally positive of in my own
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  mind is how many shots there were. And there were three shots. The
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  second two were immediate, and it was almost as if one were an echo
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  of the other. They came so quickly together. The sound of one did
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  not cease until the second shot. With the second and third shots, I
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  did see the president being hit. I literally saw his head explode. So
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  I felt the shots had come, as I wrote in the article, from
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  behind me and to my right, which have been in the direction of the
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  grassy knoll and the railroad overpass. Turner then explains that Woodward's account was pulled
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  from the paper since it didn't square with the developing official version. She goes
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  on to say that civic leaders, responsible people, whether it be the mayor
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  or the managing editor of the paper, almost felt it a responsibility to kind
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  of not rock the boat. Perhaps the neat answer was a diversion that came
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  to be the most widely accepted, that there were three shots, and they
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  had all come from the book depository, and they were all fired by Lee
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  Harvey Oswald. From Woodward's own remarks in nineteen eighty eight, we can see
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  that she still believed the shots came from the knoll or the overpass area,
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  and that does quote responsible felt that the low Nut story had to be put
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  forward no matter what. So far, so good. So what happened five
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  years later that made Mary Woodward now Pillsworth change her story recant the conclusions made
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  to a nationwide cable TV audience and turn around to support the official Loan assassin
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  version. So what happened, Joe is She's been saying all this stuff for
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  at the time twenty five years, then all of a sudden, she flips
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  the script. On twenty first, nineteen ninety three, a conference called the
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  Reporters Remember November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, was held at the Southern
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  Methodist University SMU. Many other surviving reporters and newsmen who were on the spot
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  during the tragedy in Dallas were on hand to give their recollections, do some
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  glad handing, and express mutual admiration for their fellow media cohorts. Rather than
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  running the risk of putting her remarks out of context, let's look at Mary
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  Woodward's pertinent statements on the assassination directly, as transcribed from a videotape of the
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  conference presented on c SPAN. At the time, we stationed ourselves just down
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  from the school book depository and waited for the parade to come by. Now
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  this is what she's saying in ninety three. Now, Okay, as we
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  were chatting and as we were talking, I looked up at the grassy knoll
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  when I said to my friends, I said, that's a very dangerous looking
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  spot to me. It must be very There must be a lot of security
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  up there, because it looks like a perfect spot if someone wanted to do
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  something. Now, this is a strange statement and one that she had not
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  alluded to making it any other time before, but it appears to have a
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  purpose to serve, as we will see later. And then the motorcade came
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  along, and I couldn't believe it. Finally I'm going to see Jacqueline Kennedy
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  and she's looking in the other directions, so I yelled, please look this
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  way, look at me. A lot of women were there for Jackie.
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  Yeah, and they looked right at us. And at that very moment,
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  I heard a very loud noise and I wasn't sure what it was at that
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  point, and I turned to my friends and asked, what was that?
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  Is some jerk shooting off firecrackers? And then I heard the second one,
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  and this time I knew what had happened because I saw the President's motion.
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  And then the third shot came very very quickly on top of the second one,
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  and at that time, I saw his head blow up, and I
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  very well knew what had happened at that point. Would She then briefly recalls
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  that the first shot definitely did not hit JFK. I have never wavered on
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  that, and how amazingly slow the reactions of the Secret Service were. She
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  then recounts how she was received back of the Dallas Morning News when she said
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  that the president had been killed. It seems that her coworkers and fellow supporters
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  were unwilling to support me on that. They were saying, well, something
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  happened. He's been shot, but nobody was willing to say they killed him.
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  But I kept insisting, oh, he's dead, I know he's dead,
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  or else I hope he's dead because his head's blown clean apart. She
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  then repeats how she wrote the story, narrates the sequence of the shots,
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  same basic accounts she gave with William Turner or Nigel Turner. Sorry, and
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  says, in retrospect, I think I wrote it correctly after rereading it before
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  the nineteen ninety three conference. Now here's where the trouble begins. Let's pick
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  it up a bit later and missus Woodard's speak to her colleagues. She says,
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  the only thing that I guess I got myself in a little bit of
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  controversy about I said the shots appeared to have come from behind me and to
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  my right, And I did say seemed too. I didn't say they did
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  come from that direction, because first of all, I have very great difficultydiscerning
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  the direction of sounds. Anyway, I'm the kind of person on the freeway
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  when I hear a siren, I panic because I don't know where it's coming
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  from. And secondly, I had just spoken to my friends prior to the
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  event, suggesting that the Grassy Knoe would be the perfect spot for an assassin.
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  So I said it was somewhat like, somewhat like a self fulfilling prophecy,
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  And that's when it happened. I naturally expected it. I naturally expected
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  it to have come from where I had predicted it would come from. So
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  in reality, I do believe they came from the school book Depository building.
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  So I get a little upset when I get put into this other crazy column.
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  Is that our column ro apparently, so you know it's crazy conspiracy theorist,
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  you know. To complicate the shifting Woodward credibility. Author Walt Brown reports
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  in his new book Treachery in Dallas that he, along with George Michael Evic,
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  and Dick Russell, had dinner with Mary Woodward on November twenty second,
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  nineteen ninety two, and that she nodded in the affirmative when I asked if
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  to knowle was the source of the shots. So why would she give such
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  a cock and bowl story later at the reporters conference? Could it be that
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  she was somehow pressured to change her tune? Could it be apparent pressures of
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  speaking before her media colleagues? Is the problem? A solid fortress against any
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  conspiracy stories, folks who couldn't face the embarrassment of being wrong after about a
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  lone gumman all these years. So that is the somewhat bizarre and changing testimony
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  of Mary Woodward Joe. I believe, and this is just bad Bob's own
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  personal opinion here, that nobody ever planned on being at this conference with all
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  these fellow newspaper people, you know, some thirty years after the fact,
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  and that upon realizing that her story didn't jiy but anybody else's from the official
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  story from these newspaper people and newspeople, and she didn't want to seem like
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  the odd duck, like the yah, you know, crazy one, right,
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  the crazy one. So then she changed her story. What do you
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  think? Okay? So I made a couple of notes here, and one
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  of the things one of the questions I had Scott asked, since her story
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  was pulled, was it ever available to read? I don't believe so,
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  based on what you read, right Women's column, No True Flag say her
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  story was changed and printed back in nineteen sixty three. So I think it
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  was pulled, changed and then printed the next day because I think at the
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  time she had wrote that he was dead, but none of that had been
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  confirmed yet, so said they didn't want to run. I think it makes
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  sense because and so you said it was in ninety three this conference. Yeah,
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  so it's kind of after the JFK movie by a couple of years,
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  right in the early nineties, so it is a weird time to kind of
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  change the story. I think that your guess is probably the most plausible one,
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  which is, you know, when talking and being with other news reporters,
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  colleagues, anchors, other people in media, there is a lot of
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  pressure that comes with that. You know, just think, yeah, to
• 23:41
  go with the official story, right, how many of those people were mockingbirds?
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  You know, I'm guessing a number of them. I don't know.
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  I'm not going to put a number on it. But yeah, listen,
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  you want to be accepted by your peers. I think that's a normal human
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  trait, right. I think that's probably the the most logical thing that happened,
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  that she just changed her story to not rock the boat anymore. But
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  you said she did talking with the men who killed Kennedy. Yeah, the
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  series okay, h the ten part series, of course, and that was
• 24:18
  want to be like the at Alls Alexander Alexander Jones instead of alex James time
• 24:26
  in the media. Do you know when the Men who killed Kennedy came out
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  eight eighty eight? Okay, so fine, Okay, that's maybe she got
• 24:36
  a lot of blowback from from that from her peers and therefore kind of changed
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  it. You didn't want to be ostracized and made them feel like a looney
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  bands if that was the only perspective that she had. But she had every
• 24:51
  right to have that perspective. She was there boots on the ground in Delley
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  Plaza fifteen feet away from the motorcade when FK was killed. Yeah, and
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  you know nobody else was from the news, you know, that's that's true.
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  And she should have stuck by her guns and stuck to her story and
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  told everybody else to screw off, you know, like the Newman's kind of
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  stuck to their story the whole time, right, Yeah, they have Yeah,
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  and you know they obviously weren't called either, So there's a little,
• 25:26
  a little pattern there. But it is a weird time for her to change
• 25:30
  her story in ninety three, but considering the where she was speaking, it
• 25:36
  makes sense. And one other note I wrote down, I think she said,
• 25:41
  correct me if I'm wrong, wrong, Rob, the mayor and the
• 25:45
  editor wanted to change the story. That's when I wrote down. So we
• 25:49
  were talking about Earl Cabell there, cap. Yeah, he would have been
• 25:56
  the mayor at the time. Yeah, that's that's an interesting person to cite
• 26:00
  as having didn't want to upset. I forgot the exact wording of it,
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  but right, well, back then mayors used to have a lot of pool,
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  like nowadays, mayors don't really do nothing, you know, or have
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  a lot of pool, you know what I mean? Yeah, true,
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  But back then you know they were big depends on the city, I think,
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  right, well, I mean Jesse Curry's on the phone with Cavill at
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  the time of the assassination in the League car. Yeah, I think there's
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  uh, you know, I always put much more stock into early immediate statements.
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  I'm not sure what's on the record from her in sixty three, if
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  there's any interviews or documents, but well, apparently there's an FBI document interview
• 26:51
  where she said that, so, okay, how does it haven't come across
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  it? Okay, Well that's uh, that's all right. Put the most
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  stock in right, So that's right, all right, Joe, you're up,
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  he said, he said, he said, he said, and I'm
• 27:07
  gonna give Actually, let's say hi to one or two more people Bungled.
• 27:11
  Do we say hi to him or earlier? I can't remember. I don't
• 27:15
  think so high Bungled. Good morning, Paula, and uh who else was
• 27:22
  it? I saw gold Slacker and South to West. Thank you all for
• 27:29
  joining us on this Father's Day morning. So chat and Alpha sixty six that
• 27:36
  was the other person, of course, Alpha sixty six, who is the
• 27:41
  mayor of Dallas today? Do you know this? I don't know I'm asking.
• 27:47
  I know, I know he'll respect it. And to put everyone to
• 27:53
  put other people on the spot in the chat. Who is familiar with Raymond
• 28:00
  Roca? Who is what I'm going to be talking about a little bit today.
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  Not a common name when you think of CIA high end CIA agents that
• 28:10
  are involved and talked about in the assassination. He probably wouldn't make it on
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  the top ten. And like a tabloid list, right of like who the
• 28:22
  general public thing? You know, you'd have like e. Harbard Haunt like
• 28:26
  things like that. Right. So, in doing some preparation for the show,
• 28:34
  I was learning a lot about him, and he came up, ironically
• 28:40
  enough in our Martin show and no sure, and I'm going to get into
• 28:49
  that, because what is a TLG show if it doesn't we don't bring it
• 28:55
  back to the Martins. And look at that handsome face out on the right.
• 29:03
  Not so much. I respect the chin beard, the great chin beard.
• 29:08
  I could probably look like that if I shaved everything but that and had
• 29:14
  hair. He is a very interesting character. And he was the Deputy Chief
• 29:22
  of Counterintelligence and Research for Research and Analysis Staff under James Jesus Angleton when he
• 29:33
  was later Angleton's deputy and he had even Rob served in the OSS during World
• 29:42
  War Two. And I found this not on the JFK site. But this
• 29:48
  isn't from the bad persons of Germany of that time War Crimes Disclosure Act and
• 29:57
  from Raymond Rocca to James Angleton in February nineteen forty five, and they work
• 30:03
  together in Italy and Rome specifically, So I have a call over their entire
• 30:10
  professional careers. Yes until the week. As we'll see later that Angleton was
• 30:17
  fired in nineteen seventy four on Christmas Eve, ray Rocca was given the chance
• 30:22
  to either transfer or resign, transfer to another part of the agency, and
• 30:30
  he chose to resign. So that is some loyalty, Rob. That is
• 30:34
  loyalty. So I have three little things I'm gonna read quickly from we do
• 30:41
  Yeah sure, shouting me shout out have your Father's day to aunt you Dene,
• 30:47
  because she's she's an aunt, a mother and a father to all her
• 30:51
  children. Thank you, so poor ass, some lone star Claude frand YOUU
• 30:59
  Dean? What's up? Greg? I see you, buddy, Greg.
• 31:07
  Yes, So I'm gonna read I have three different little snippets that kind of
• 31:15
  that kind of summarize Ray Rocca. And it's from three people that are very
• 31:22
  different and it's kind of interesting. So I'm gonna put back up that image
• 31:30
  of him there, Raymond Rocca. And the first is going to come from
• 31:40
  the book Cold Warrior James Jesus Angleton, the CIA's Master Spy Hunter in nineteen
• 31:47
  ninety one author Tom Mangled And this is on Spartacus as well. To understand
• 31:53
  Angleton and his research mythology, one must know a little about the man closest
• 31:57
  to him throughout his working life. That man was Raymond Roca, Angleton's former
• 32:04
  Rome Oss colleague, who led the effort to reconstruct the past as head of
• 32:09
  the staff's new Research and Analysis department. Roca's friends say he was well suited
• 32:15
  for the job. He had an excellent memory. It was considered a plotting,
• 32:20
  thorough scholar who usually provided Angleton with more detail than needed. Roka was,
• 32:28
  yes, was he kind of like Clyde Tolson was to Yeah, and
• 32:34
  you know that's a that's a great analogy. Actually, uh yeah, more
• 32:37
  than one facet. I don't know about that facet, Okay, just just
• 32:42
  throwing it out there. I can't confirm that that kind of that kind of
• 32:46
  loyal to me. You know, it doesn't happen very often, Bro,
• 32:51
  That is true. That is true. There's some love, you know,
• 32:54
  there are some love. I don't know if it's that type of love.
• 32:59
  Uh So. Critics of Angleton's mythology said that both he and Roca wasted enormous
• 33:05
  quantities of time studying the gospels of pre war Soviet intelligence operations. I'm gonna
• 33:10
  come back to that, Rob, at the very moment the KGB had shifted
• 33:15
  the style and emphesis of its operations against the West. And that's just three
• 33:20
  paragraphs from mister Tom Mangold's book Cold Warrior, James Jesus Angleton and the next
• 33:32
  person you're gonna it's an interesting take. Edward j Epstein, Rob on his
• 33:39
  blog or his former blogs, I think he's passed, has a few paragraphs
• 33:46
  about Angleton too, And that's very interesting, interesting because you kind of think
• 33:50
  of Epstein as a possible mockingbird. Would you agree with that? Rob?
• 34:00
  That may be take him a little too far. Okay, Okay, I'm
• 34:04
  not sure. He does do some good work back in the sixties, right,
• 34:07
  That's why I said possible. I don't know the rock, as Angleton
• 34:12
  called Ray Rocca was a tall, bearded man in his early sixties who shuffled
• 34:16
  around, shuffled around with the same slight stoop as Engleton's We'll see that soup
• 34:22
  in a little bit between a rock and a hard place. Yes, we
• 34:27
  will. Uh, we will see that stoop surely. Even though he was
• 34:32
  recovering from a serious heart operation, he agreed to see me. That's Edward
• 34:37
  Epstein on Angleton's recommendation, which is interesting because Angleton always was known for kind
• 34:44
  of meeting with everyone who wanted to meet with him, right in terms of
• 34:49
  like reporters and researchers. I'm sorry, I'm not looking at it, says,
• 34:53
  if the office is rocking, don't come and knocking. I love it.
• 35:00
  You should have you should have used that type of thing for for a
• 35:04
  title. Uh So, let's see. He was served under Angleton almost his
• 35:10
  entire career in intelligence. First employed by Angleton the OSS at the end of
• 35:15
  World War Two, like we showed you in Italy to keep track of fragmentary
• 35:19
  eligence. Intelligence reports taken from German, Italian and Vatican archives clues to who
• 35:27
  did what during the war. Would prove invaluable in the post war in determining
• 35:31
  who were the targets of blackmail and coercion. Then he followed Angleton to the
• 35:38
  CIA. When Angleton organized his counter intelligence staff, he became his head of
• 35:43
  research. He took charge of what Angleton called the serials like serial number not
• 35:49
  cereal to breakfast uh, the pieces of information left over from previous cases which
• 35:53
  might Sunday fit into other jigsaw puzzles. When Angleton was fired from the CIA
• 36:00
  in January seventy five, he was also let go or Christmas Day, But
• 36:07
  that's only the weak or two difference either way. Man, Christmas, you're
• 36:13
  fired. Yeah, it's funny because, as we'll see, the reporters were
• 36:16
  like, maybe not the best time to say this, but Merry Christmas.
• 36:20
  You just got fired. Let's see this is interesting too. Roca explained that
• 36:25
  the intelligence business, defectors were defined as either bonafide or dispatched, depending on
• 36:30
  who controlled their actions. If a defector chose to change sides and by doing
• 36:36
  so must sincerely put himself under the control of American intelligence, he was bonified.
• 36:42
  If a defector only pretended to change sides and remained under control of the
• 36:45
  KGB or another hostile intelligence service. He was quote dispatched when the Senko was
• 36:53
  thought to be a dispatch defector. Okay, they get in a lot of
• 36:59
  stuff about Cenko and galits In and that is a whole another episode, and
• 37:05
  there are much more smarter people who have done a lot of research on that,
• 37:10
  so I'm not really going to go into that. And that would be
• 37:13
  John Newman, of course, among others. So they were talking about Osbal
• 37:22
  I think I think Angleton really wanted to break Nasenko. Yeah, but I
• 37:32
  think it ended up backfiring. Yeah, so he would have thought Nasenka would
• 37:37
  have been dispatched, and I think elites would have been bona fide. I
• 37:42
  believe, yes. So last thing, Edward Epstein says, is there any
• 37:47
  evidence that oswald disinformation was cooked up by the KGB. Roka lit his pipe
• 37:57
  and he shook his head. Ah, now you're talking about operational data.
• 38:00
  I was never involved in that. I thought you just wanted a historical perspective.
• 38:06
  And Edward Epstein says it was clear the seminar of trust was over and
• 38:10
  that was the end of his little blog on mister Ray Roca. Interesting little
• 38:19
  picture we're getting here, right, Yeah, he sounds like a very company
• 38:25
  man swer that that's probably an understatement. And now we are going to read
• 38:34
  a little from for end of the show's website to Princess and a King Carmbraine
• 38:39
  and Salvastano, of course, and we actually own an email rub but he
• 38:46
  wrote serving during World War Two to serve as an Italian broadcast analyst. Raymond's
• 38:54
  work drew the attention of the OSS, and Roka joined the OSS Counter SPINAJ
• 39:00
  Division X two and was sent to Italy under the direction of James Angleton.
• 39:05
  He would continue serving the OSS descending group, the Strategic Services Unit under military
• 39:13
  cover. Graduated from the National War College fifty five the same year, joined
• 39:16
  the CI's Directorate of Plans as chief of its Counterintelligence Research and Analysis Group to
• 39:22
  undertake studies, perform research, and train agents. He was on the ground
• 39:29
  here and serving once more under Angleton. He was responsible for the development of
• 39:34
  some Russian and Soviet block defectors encountering any enemy disinformation campaigns. Amidst the nineteen
• 39:43
  sixties, counter intelligence staff was consumed with seeking internal agency traders the Moll Hunt
• 39:49
  and launched a hunt for penetration agents referred to as moles By sixty nine,
• 39:53
  Rocup became deputy chief of counterintelligence staff, but Angleton's hunt for traders had spun
• 40:00
  out of control with Missenko's exoneration. So you're right. Years of increasingly disastrous
• 40:08
  agency secrets being leaked culminated in a media article pushing this Director of some of
• 40:15
  Intelligence, William Kolby, to remove Angleton and reassign his lead staff members,
• 40:22
  which was of course great Rocca. Angleton met with Rocca and others, and
• 40:28
  the counter intelligence chief was forced out of his position to address the division's future,
• 40:32
  and Roca alluded to retirement if he was transferred, which of course he
• 40:37
  did, and he in nineteen sixty four. Yep, didn't William kolbe the
• 40:45
  guy who fired Jesus and Angleton? Didn't he meet a mysterious, untimely demise.
• 40:52
  He did, interesting a very very I mean little sush, very sus,
• 41:00
  Yes, a little sus. And yeah, Carmill be on soon,
• 41:05
  yes, within the month, yes, sir, I can't narrow it down
• 41:10
  anymore for you write in the second but yeah, yeah, within thirty days
• 41:15
  for surely allegedly. And so that is Carmine's little recap of that, and
• 41:25
  so I was, you know, I was reading about him and I heard
• 41:29
  about his HSCA secret deposition, but I couldn't find it. But then at
• 41:34
  the bottom of the article that is two Princes Ina King dot com and you
• 41:37
  can just search Ray Roca. That's I believe the third result that comes up,
• 41:42
  which is kind of cool because usually we're The show we did with him
• 41:49
  last was Shadow Band like crazy. Yeah. Yeah, people don't like docum.
• 41:58
  We're not scared to have him one. No, no, they don't
• 42:01
  like actual document researchers. That makes sense. And so there's a two hundred
• 42:09
  and eighty three page interview of this HCA testimony. How much of it do
• 42:17
  you think I read? Well, it would be unfair of me to answer
• 42:23
  this question, seeing as how I know. I know I told you how
• 42:27
  much you read, and I don't know why you read that much, because
• 42:30
  I read about ten pages of it and I was like, this guy ain't
• 42:34
  saying nothing, man, No no point in reading this shit. I don't
• 42:39
  know why I did either, to be fair, just I guess because I
• 42:42
  was looking for little tidbits and I found a couple I'm going to share with
• 42:45
  you. And again, you can go to carmin site to get the He
• 42:52
  has a link to the two hundred and eighty three pages of this interview.
• 42:55
  So I jumped around a little. Here, this guy Goldsmith is questioning mister
• 43:01
  Ray Rocca, and he asked, informally, was the counterintelligence staff responsible for
• 43:07
  coordinating the CIA's investigation. They're talking about the warrant commission here. This is
• 43:12
  where I wonder about the use of that term. That is, whenever whatever
• 43:15
  we had done, whatever we were to do or did to assist the warrant
• 43:21
  commission focused in the staff in the CI staff, in the CI staff at
• 43:27
  the time, who was in charge of the counter intelligence staff mister Angleton,
• 43:30
  and mister Hunt was his deputy. Now don't get too excited, folks,
• 43:35
  because mister Goldsmith asked, was that mister E. Howard Hunt? No,
• 43:39
  for the record, who is mister Hunt? Mister Hunt was mister James Hunt,
• 43:45
  a totally different person in counterintelligence. Yes, Mike's brother, Mike's brother.
• 43:53
  Yeah. Uh So, one thing I thought of when I was reading
• 44:00
  this, because you remember, of course Oswald wrote that letter to we think
• 44:05
  it was mister Hunt. Has also theorized it could be John Hurt right,
• 44:08
  mm hmm. What if it was this guy encounter intelligence, he dealt with
• 44:14
  defectors or his group did. Yeah, I don't know, complete speculation there.
• 44:22
  And to Paula's point here, work at the comments for a second,
• 44:28
  I wonder why they waited. Well, it would it seemed kind of obvious
• 44:30
  if they would often so quickly after getting canned. And I'm not saying you
• 44:39
  know Angleton and and Roca did it, but somebody loyal to them could have
• 44:49
  gave him a receipt, you know, many years later so he could enjoy
• 44:54
  uh, you know the rest of his life. Yeah, saying maybe maybe,
• 44:59
  Yeah. And I think Milton was dead at that time, twenty years
• 45:00
  after the HSCA. Yeah, and was too. I think Rocca was as
• 45:07
  well. I think it was. But you got to figure there was other
• 45:10
  people in this, in this, Yeah, there was the mind be loyal
• 45:14
  to these guys, the old the old cows right of the of the CIA
• 45:19
  or that old way of thinking. Right. I Thinkleton could have said,
• 45:22
  hey, look, don't do it tomorrow, next week, next month,
• 45:24
  next year, but make sure the son of a bitch pays for it.
• 45:30
  Yeah, I mean kind of like uh, mafia doesn't really forget right,
• 45:34
  right, they'll small and not and get you when you're at least expecting it
• 45:37
  in your face. Yeah, so we're jumping some of the anti Castro assassinations
• 45:49
  about more emphasis. Uh, would you have given more focus, more emphasis
• 45:54
  to the possibility of a Cuban responsibility for the assassination off? I would have
• 46:00
  done it anyway in the view of the fact that he was in touch with
• 46:04
  the Cubans. Okay, However earlier when we asked you, it would have
• 46:09
  simply intensified that interest. The answer to your question is, yes, he's
• 46:13
  like a lawyer the way he answers these questions. It was extremely frustrating to
• 46:17
  read two hundred pages of this. I guess I was just kind of looking
• 46:21
  for any diamond in the rough type of thing. When did you first and
• 46:25
  this is a complete lie, Rob, this is ridiculous bottom right, When
• 46:30
  did you first learn from an agency source, if ever, that the agency
• 46:35
  had been involved in anti Castro assassination plots that would have been the Lafia Cia
• 46:40
  assassination plots on Castro very late. I can't attach an exact date to it,
• 46:45
  of course you can't. Did you know of the anti Castro assassination plots
• 46:50
  at the time this letter was reviewed by you. In other words, they're
• 46:53
  showing them documents here in other words, April seventy five, so like close
• 47:00
  to fifteen, more than ten years after these assassination plots are going down.
• 47:05
  He goes, no, no, I still don't know of them. And
• 47:07
  this, yeah, this is the number two encounterintelligence like get out of This
• 47:15
  is July seventeenth, seventy eight, so that's about three years after the document
• 47:22
  they were referring to. And one little note I forgot. You know,
• 47:27
  the testimony is going to be super classified. When after they do you swear
• 47:31
  to tell the truth, the whole truth thing, first question? After that
• 47:36
  off the record, it's like wow, and all right, next here.
• 47:45
  Now we're getting to Mexico City. Now, if we were to reconstruct Oswalt's
• 47:50
  visits to the Cuban and Russian embassies, that's what I did in that memo.
• 47:53
  Brocus says, well, we're going to let we're going to get a
• 47:57
  hold of that memo. I assure you the agency at this time has not
• 48:00
  made it available to us, so they actually don't have the memo they're referring
• 48:05
  to on Mexico's City In Night Anger, nineteen seventy eight. They still don't
• 48:09
  have. But if we were to reconstruct his visits, he would this is
• 48:15
  Goldsmith. We would see he made visits not with the Soviets embassy, but
• 48:17
  the Cuban Is Embassy as well. I cannot recall that detail, but that
• 48:22
  too would be taken care of, Rocus says. And bear in mind that
• 48:25
  these were different implements. These were different and they had different problems in management.
• 48:32
  As I say, I'm telling you only what I know by hearsay.
• 48:36
  Here he is using another legal term to be like. The people who were
• 48:38
  there would be the ones we have to explain. So his defenses. I
• 48:43
  wasn't in Mexico City, asked the people who were, right. Did it
• 48:49
  strike you unusual that Oswald was able to visit the embassy's a total of five
• 48:53
  at least five or six times without ever being photographed. Mister Roca says,
• 48:59
  no, not bit, not one bit. Edward Epstein is right, guy's
• 49:06
  a rock. I've been in the field. I've been in the field twenty
• 49:09
  years, Rocas says. And anyone who trusts machines and machine coverage is just
• 49:15
  placing his reliance on a false device. Okay, So remember I mentioned earlier
• 49:22
  I was going to get back to the whole h These two guys, Angleton
• 49:25
  and Rocca are stuck in like thirty years ago spycraft tactics. This is what
• 49:34
  I'm kind of referring to. It came up again because you know, obviously
• 49:37
  Angleton was fooled by Philby, by possibly Bruce Sully. I mean he was
• 49:44
  his boss above him and office security. But yeah, that's what I'm saying,
• 49:52
  Like, what were they right about? And I think they might have
• 49:54
  been fooled in Mexico City and possibly poison pilled by using Oswalt as the person,
• 50:02
  knowing that they would have to cover up a lot of him. Thank
• 50:06
  you, Red, appreciate buddy, Thank you, Red Phillips. So he's
• 50:13
  in Mexico City, which he was involved in in terms of the documents,
• 50:17
  and defectors obviously would fall right in his wheelhouse. He didn't say much about,
• 50:22
  but he said I wasn't there, right, And now we're getting into
• 50:27
  Oswalt's to a one file. It's interesting that he's calling a coverage camera a
• 50:30
  false device. What's that alluding to that the camera coverage was fake? Now
• 50:37
  machines using machines as in cameras or recorders or something. I think it's all
• 50:44
  not as good as human intelligence. I think that's what he's saying. I
• 50:49
  don't know. I think he's kind of referring to the human intelligence aspect of
• 50:53
  being superior than the machine intelligence aspect. That's what I grasped from it.
• 51:00
  So one more little thing here, and this is on Oswalt's for example,
• 51:07
  let's see, why would Oswalt's file been restricted? My impression, Roka says,
• 51:14
  my impression would be that this would be restricted in order to assure knowledge
• 51:17
  and SIG SIG in this as one of a category of files involving American defectors.
• 51:25
  They would want to know in the event anyone else developed information or expressed
• 51:30
  an interest of any kind. For example, Lee Harvey. Oswalt file was
• 51:35
  restricted when it was taken over by Research and Analysis when it was given to
• 51:38
  me, Goldman says, so that if anyone and ROCA cuts them off.
• 51:44
  So that if any if anyone came in and checked that file, you would
• 51:47
  know about it, says gold Goldsmith. I would know immediately who it was.
• 51:53
  So that's interesting. Anyone who requested Oswalt's to a one file would get
• 52:00
  flagged by Roca, right, not necessarily Angleton himself, because this guy was
• 52:05
  really on the working level. Last thing, I would like you to review
• 52:08
  a document in this top right marked CI number blah blah blah. Who gave
• 52:15
  it to He, you know, puts a document in front of Roca.
• 52:20
  Roca is like, who gave it to me? So he's kind of just
• 52:22
  being evasive. Have you had a chance to read this? Oh yes,
• 52:25
  yes, the machines listing of documents. Oh third, I just want to
• 52:35
  skip to this part. Thirty seven documents that should be in the two and
• 52:37
  one file are not available. This total is made up. I caught off.
• 52:45
  Do you remember receiving this memorandum? Of course Roca says, no,
• 52:49
  that's not of any particular import and essentially he's lying about Oswald's to A one
• 52:54
  file as well. So very you know, not a lot given by Roca
• 53:06
  here, But there's still some pages I have to read, and it's this
• 53:13
  guy is just old school. He was not giving up the goat on his
• 53:22
  watch for sure. No, the guy who you know didn't either to the
• 53:28
  HC. Right, So yeah, So I mentioned earlier that Ray Roca came
• 53:37
  up in our Martin journey, Rob, I tell you what I'm referring to,
• 53:45
  and that is the document that you and I found in April twenty twenty.
• 53:51
  It was like May, but it was released in April in the new
• 53:53
  releases that we presented on at Lancer. And this is, of course the
• 54:00
  letter recommending miss James Herbert Martin to what we think is Lee Wingren, but
• 54:08
  we're not sure. But what we're going to focus on is the R signed
• 54:14
  at the bottom of the page and essentially what this article says and what the
• 54:20
  letter says and not your typical wife. Why are intercept I think the case
• 54:29
  could be made either way, something about it's hard to make out, so
• 54:35
  I'm not going to go into cash or wife and dangle. But you and
• 54:38
  I Rob had wondered if this was We had said at Lancer that this was
• 54:44
  B defhilise because his B here looks like an R, right and being there's
• 54:52
  a better examples of the B D filies, so it looks more like an
• 54:57
  R than this one there is. I didn't get that one. I'm sorry.
• 55:00
  Yes, you're right, yes, And the reason we thought that is
• 55:04
  because a letter of recommendation and an extension of an oral contract by the CIA
• 55:09
  to the wife of the person Marina moved in with. We thought the director
• 55:15
  of he would fall under the director of personnel a higher right. What if
• 55:23
  it was Ray Roca who wrote this letter as the R here And if you
• 55:35
  remember, uh Bill Simpitch was the one when we were messaging him about that
• 55:42
  that told you you were messaging him that he believed it was from Roca to
• 55:45
  leave Windram. I'm just not seeing at least the bottom one doesn't look at
• 55:54
  all like the of his rs. The one above it M it's it's hard.
• 56:05
  I mean, so there's not many. I mean, because that's a
• 56:07
  hell of a slant on the one on the left at the bottom of the
• 56:10
  letter. That's a very slanted R. Yeah, slanted to the right.
• 56:15
  And I don't see that in either one of the Rocas signatures. More in
• 56:21
  the middle one, I think. But so I searched for a lot of
• 56:24
  Ray Rokea documents and there's not that many. These were two of the of
• 56:30
  documents he signed. So, I mean, the two alleged Rocus signatures don't
• 56:36
  look anything alike right to me. But he's signing this. This is like
• 56:42
  an internal letter to a friend right within the CIA that doesn't even have to
• 56:47
  write his signature because he knows who he knows it. The person who's receiving
• 56:52
  the letter knows who is coming from. Right, he only needs to put
• 56:55
  one letter. I think so very interesting. We're not saying it either way.
• 57:01
  We're just theorizing here. And I like you thought DeFelice and there was
• 57:08
  a better signature. Maybe I'll find that for next one. But I think
• 57:14
  counterintelligence for a Roca possibility. If you're talking about counterintelligence and defectors and what
• 57:20
  Marina was right, because that's what it would have been for right was dead
• 57:23
  at this time, would have been to survey Marina, and with their kind
• 57:28
  of crazy focus on the KGB and the Russians, like almost obsessive, could
• 57:35
  make sense. So yeah, for sure, that is all I have with
• 57:40
  mister Rocca. Thank you guys. I have not looked at the comments yet.
• 57:45
  Yeah, we can get caught up a little bit here, thank you.
• 57:50
  Yeah, Hi, mister James, is that James? Yes? And
• 57:58
  uh Claude Richard how Elms was actually referred to a couple of times or a
• 58:04
  lot of times in the two hundred pages I read. He was the deputy
• 58:07
  director of Plans in sifty three I believe right. Well, sorry speaks by
• 58:15
  sar Pearson. Okay, I've covered one, yes, thank you, and
• 58:27
  I haven't seen what else. All right. So, in researching Ray Roca,
• 58:35
  I found a really interesting video that I shared with you, rob On
• 58:40
  Angleton the day he loved So this is the day after he was fired.
• 58:46
  I read it was Christmas Eve in nineteen seventy four, and I think this
• 58:51
  is Christmas Day? Hello here can you see it? Yeah? All right,
• 59:02
  Mike makes a good point here. His signature slightly should have changed over
• 59:07
  the years. Mine certainly has. Oh yeah, quite possible. Yeah,
• 59:13
  all depends on how much of a hurry you're in as well. You know,
• 59:15
  how much effort you want to put into that signature. You know,
• 59:21
  some people are just like you know, fire, screw it, scribble,
• 59:22
  scribble, or maybe why you don't want your signature to be obvious on some
• 59:28
  things, right, why you intentionally make it not look like you're usual.
• 59:35
  So this is James Huess Angleton. I believe it's the morning after because if
• 59:42
  they say Merry Christmas. The reporters are interviewing Angleton outside of his house and
• 59:46
  it's a doozy, folks. He has faded here. He is drunk.
• 59:51
  We know he was an alcoholic drunk as a skunk. He's probably up all
• 59:55
  night when I worked against the opposition, regardless of what nationality can contact with
• 1:00:07
  him. That's another matter. It did not happen in the United States.
• 1:00:15
  Was your branch of the CIA involved in the surveillance of American citizens here inside
• 1:00:21
  the United States? Did you completely or were you in some way induced to
• 1:00:29
  resign? Pause? I'm very unhappy to leave the agency. No, I
• 1:00:39
  don't surveillance overseas. Would you be careful because I just shaved at this moment,
• 1:00:46
  I've been up all night literally on the phone. What is this man
• 1:00:55
  like? How fate? What that's like? Electronic device? I see,
• 1:01:04
  I'm not familiar with them, and it's much more perfected than anything we have
• 1:01:07
  in the agency. Yeah, right. I think the time comes to a
• 1:01:15
  man when they no longer serve their country as determined by whom, by themselves
• 1:01:29
  and their superiors. But some man nature. I don't think I have any
• 1:01:36
  horns. No, well, I mean it depends on I mean, you
• 1:01:40
  said goatagat, I do not say babuh, sir, Did you have any
• 1:01:49
  association with the plumbers unit in the White House? Absolutely not. Was the
• 1:01:52
  agency involved in the kind of domestic surveillance that has been portrayed in the news
• 1:01:58
  reports. Long explain yourself in the way violated it's charter. No, my
• 1:02:07
  feeling is that it has not. Could it be a difference, But I'm
• 1:02:12
  speaking only on behalf of the group. Man from my have the highest respect,
• 1:02:23
  and I can say as to their activities. All right, what do
• 1:02:30
  you think about that, mister rob Oh? I think they caught that dude
• 1:02:36
  creeping out in the morning. He should have stayed in the house. I
• 1:02:42
  have one more minute, rob I am skipping here. Yeah, I'm not
• 1:02:45
  gonna watch. I love this. It's so great. This is where you
• 1:02:50
  could tell he's really kind of maybe he's just sleep deprived. You never know.
• 1:02:54
  We'll probably live longer than I will, and you'll learn the result of
• 1:02:59
  it. I used to thing that these years in the CIA, you have
• 1:03:04
  watched the President Nixon, Secretary Kissinger, and now President paud take the United
• 1:03:08
  States don a misguided that love pause. As I told you earlier, missus
• 1:03:20
  Shure, you've kept me up too many hours to three am watching public television,
• 1:03:29
  and I don't know whether I like you or don't like you for that
• 1:03:31
  reason. Let's see when the nuclear stalemate not assumes it is that there are
• 1:03:42
  fixed parameters of relationships. I am not in the political business. I have
• 1:03:52
  seen no chains in the Soviets at any time, whether it be in the
• 1:03:59
  Middle East or in the whole world that we can sum where the sun is
• 1:04:12
  ever deviated from their desire to take over. I noticed on this world.
• 1:04:21
  I notice on this Christmas Eve that your family is not with you. Is
• 1:04:26
  that the result of all these unhappy events? Yes, through Dad asked you
• 1:04:32
  if that relationship Verry Christmas is exactly that was ironic, But Verry Christmas happened.
• 1:04:39
  It was ironic. What happens to me Christmas? All right? I
• 1:04:45
  guess? Oh wow, Uncle Dave summed it up pretty good here self medicating
• 1:04:59
  his guilt. Yes, even drunk, he is giving non denial denials.
• 1:05:06
  Yes, that's no more lone stars for that boy, I'll know, Yes,
• 1:05:19
  cut him off and you, Dean, he needs no more. Yes,
• 1:05:24
  and he is jacked up, So that jacked up on Mountain dew and
• 1:05:30
  let me see so he Angleton resigned after Seymour Hirsch published a story in New
• 1:05:36
  York Times about domestic calenar intelligence activities under Angleton's direction. I believe that was
• 1:05:43
  the opening mail was a ht HP lingual, yeah, against anti war protesters
• 1:05:50
  other domestic dissident organizations. Following this, Angleton was announced resignation was announced Christmas
• 1:05:58
  Eve seventy four. Three of Angleton's senior aides and counterintelligence is Deputy Raymond Rocca,
• 1:06:04
  Executive Officer of Counterintelligence William J. Hood, and Angleton's chief of Operations,
• 1:06:10
  Newton Miller, were coaxed into retirement within a week of Angleton's resignation after
• 1:06:15
  was made clear they would be transferred elsewhere in the agency rather than promoted.
• 1:06:20
  The counterintelligence staff was reduced from three hundred to eighty people. Rob, Yes,
• 1:06:29
  that is it. They cleaned house folks out with the old guarden in
• 1:06:34
  with the new. No. And I did not realize how many of Angleton's
• 1:06:41
  top aides were, how they were so loyal, and that so many resigned
• 1:06:45
  within a week of his resignation. You know, little tidbits like that,
• 1:06:49
  right, Yeah, if you think they wouldn't retaliate on Kobe even many years
• 1:06:54
  later, I'm just saying some people never forget. Well, thank you Joe
• 1:07:00
  for the he said. He said, bulls uh there. Now we're gonna
• 1:07:05
  go back to she said, she said what she said, what? Yeah,
• 1:07:12
  some of this you're gonna be like she said, what uh, We're
• 1:07:15
  gonna go back to New Orleans in the Year of Our Lord nineteen and sixty
• 1:07:19
  seven for this one, Joe and this is an interview by Andrew Mummoo Shambra
• 1:07:30
  of Betty Parrott. Now, Betty Parrott was informing to the Garrison investigation about
• 1:07:40
  a lot of things, including Carrie Thornley clay Shaw, and William Dalzel,
• 1:07:48
  which this is referring to. So on March thirty first, nineteen sixty seven,
• 1:07:58
  he says, I interviewed Betty Parrott and learned from her that she had
• 1:08:01
  an extremely close relationship with Bill Dalzel. They were banging. It seems that
• 1:08:09
  Bill Dalzel lived in her home for a certain period of time because they were
• 1:08:14
  banging. During the time that Bill Dalzel lived in her house, she said
• 1:08:19
  that he was involved with a group known as the Friends of Cuba. This
• 1:08:25
  group had its office in the Balter Building. Members of this group included Sergio
• 1:08:30
  Orcassia Smith, Bill Craig, William Dalzel, Grady Durham, Louis Rebel,
• 1:08:43
  Bill Klein, Regius Kennedy, the FBI agent, a member of the FBI,
• 1:08:54
  an individual named Hoffmann, Guy Banister, and an other individual named Easterling,
• 1:09:01
  which which is very interesting because this throws back to when we talked about
• 1:09:13
  the book Reasonable Doubt by Henry Hurt, and there was a chapter in that
• 1:09:17
  book about this guy named Jake Easterling who recounted a much earlier a street fracas
• 1:09:31
  incident that wasn't videotaped or there was no arrest made. And this happened inside
• 1:09:42
  and outside of Ors Pena's bar, which is right down the street from Carlos
• 1:09:47
  Brignier's shop, like Tudors down, okay, and which she said, you
• 1:09:53
  know, Oswald was in their mouth and off and this and that, and
• 1:09:57
  a bunch of these anti cancer cubans like beat him up and then they got
• 1:10:01
  tossed him out on the sidewalk and kicked him around some more. And the
• 1:10:06
  letter that Oswald wrote to V. T. Lee on August first recounted and
• 1:10:16
  an encounter with anti Castro cubans, you know, in a fight and this
• 1:10:21
  and that. But the actual one that we know of where he was arrested
• 1:10:28
  didn't happen until August ninth. Okay. And this guy Easterling said a whole
• 1:10:34
  lot of other things in this in this interview with Henry Hurt. So if
• 1:10:40
  you haven't read it, and it might be located over in the Secret Book
• 1:10:44
  depository on Locals, possibly, I encourage everyone to check that out and read
• 1:10:51
  read, at least read the chapter on Jake Easterling. And the fact that
• 1:10:59
  she names an individual here named Easterling is very ironic because it gives credence to
• 1:11:08
  his story. Okay. She said that although Dalzel was very secretive about the
• 1:11:14
  operations of his group, she said that from the conversations that she overheard,
• 1:11:18
  she learned that the group was involved in an undercover operation in conjunction with the
• 1:11:24
  CIA and the FBI. Then involved the shipment and transportation of individuals and supplies
• 1:11:30
  in and out of Cuba, So we're talking about smuggling, trafficking people,
• 1:11:38
  drugs, guns, equipment, things like that. She said that many times
• 1:11:45
  Regis Kennedy would come to the house and talk to Dalzel concerning the operation.
• 1:11:50
  She also said that many times Regis Kennedy came to the office in the Balterer
• 1:11:55
  Building to talk to Dalzel, and in turn, Dalzel and other members of
• 1:11:59
  the group visited Regis Kennedy in his office. She said that Regis Kennedy confirmed
• 1:12:03
  to her the fact that clay Shaw is a former CIA agent who did some
• 1:12:09
  work for the CIA in Italy over a five year span. Now she is
• 1:12:16
  giving this information in nineteen sixty seven, which is interesting because the whole clay
• 1:12:25
  Shaw was a contract agent for the CIA didn't come out until when Joe was
• 1:12:30
  it the HSCA or or was it much later than that. It might have
• 1:12:39
  been after the HSCA. Don't quote me on it, but it was much
• 1:12:42
  later than the Garrison trial obviously, which was late sixties. So, yeah,
• 1:12:46
  it's interesting she knows this, which gives credence to her story that Regis
• 1:12:49
  Kennedy is the one that told her Hey and him working for the FBI,
• 1:12:57
  how would he know that clay Shaw was working for the CIA. Un let's
• 1:13:01
  Regis Kennedy was working with the CIA as well, because it says they were
• 1:13:05
  all working in cahoots or Dazel right as she was sleeping with them. Yeah,
• 1:13:12
  so she said this group later moved from their office in the Balter Building
• 1:13:16
  and moved into an office in the International Trademark and then operated under the name
• 1:13:21
  of the Voice of Cuba or the Friends of Democratic Cuba. She says she
• 1:13:27
  does not know whether or not clay Shaw had any connection with this group,
• 1:13:30
  and that she does not remember hearing clay Shaw's name mentioned. She said that
• 1:13:34
  Bill Dalzel could tell us everything about the group and about the connection with Regis
• 1:13:40
  Kennedy and the CIA. She said that Dalzel has an open charge against him
• 1:13:44
  in New York, which she believes is gun theft. She said that John
• 1:13:51
  Bolden has the entire file on Bill Dalzel and can give us all the information
• 1:13:57
  we need in regard to this charge. She says, for some reason,
• 1:14:01
  she has heard Bill Dalzell's name mentioned quite often since the investigation started. She
• 1:14:08
  said that approximately two weeks ago, Dalzell made a trip into New Orleans and
• 1:14:11
  spoke to Steve Platkin and heard that he had left town. So that's interesting,
• 1:14:19
  interesting, interesting, interesting, Thank you mister Spinks, Thank you,
• 1:14:25
  sir and Dave. We were right. It was after hsc aarb uh huh
• 1:14:33
  the clarification there, and so yeah, it wasn't until thirty years after the
• 1:14:39
  fact that when Barry Parrott Betty Parrott told Garrison that the actual truth was revealed
• 1:14:47
  and that she was right, wow, crazy stuff. And Rob, you
• 1:14:54
  said, Italy right with clay Shaw obviously he was there. What if he
• 1:14:58
  knew because that was a wild I don't know what the year was, fifty
• 1:15:03
  if Rocca was there until fifty five? There you go, all right,
• 1:15:11
  yeah, interesting, a nice little synchrosity thing there. I tied it in.
• 1:15:15
  Yes, we did not plan that, Joe, Ladies and John and
• 1:15:19
  then next up I have a document from February fourteenth where he said nineteen sixty
• 1:15:27
  eight from Kent Simms, an investigator for the years in office, and this
• 1:15:33
  is a memo to Lou Ivon regarding an interview of one Fred Sewell, fleet
• 1:15:40
  and truck manager of Stephen Chevrolet on caron De Lay Street in New Orleans.
• 1:15:47
  One February fourteenth, nineteen sixty eight. Detective Kent Sims, in company with
• 1:15:51
  Detective sal Scallia Skafuza, interviewed mister Fred Sewell at Stephen she and showed him
• 1:16:00
  a picture of one William Dalzel for possible identification as being the second man with
• 1:16:06
  Oswald in nineteen sixty one when he Oswald attempted to purchase a truck. Now
• 1:16:14
  we've all heard this story about you know, the name Oswald being on this
• 1:16:18
  paperwork from nineteen sixty one from this dealership in New Orleans where they tried to
• 1:16:25
  purchase a bunch of of trucks or jeeps or something, and that there was
• 1:16:30
  another man with him. So mister Sewell observed the picture, stating that this
• 1:16:35
  man resembles a second man who was with Oswald on the above mentioned occasion,
• 1:16:41
  but that he cannot positively identify him as being such. Mister Sewell went on
• 1:16:46
  to relate that the man who came up with Oswald had a scar over his
• 1:16:49
  left eye, that he didn't have a Spanish name, but that he was
• 1:16:55
  a Cuban type. Further, that this man was either an engineer or an,
• 1:17:00
  as he was familiar with the working parts of a truck. Also,
• 1:17:03
  he was between five six and five eight and well over two hundred pounds.
• 1:17:09
  He was the athletic type in his mid twenties. So whoever was with Oswald
• 1:17:14
  was shorter on the shorter side, but jacked because he didn't call him fat.
• 1:17:19
  If you're over two hundred pounds and you're on you're an athletic type.
• 1:17:24
  You got muscle. You know it's muscle, it's not fat. So it's
• 1:17:27
  a big dude. Big dude with Oswald did not have a Spanish name like
• 1:17:31
  Hernandez or something like that, which is interesting. And a scar over their
• 1:17:36
  left eye, which if we could match that up to somebody, uh,
• 1:17:42
  that'd be interesting. Thank you, Greg, appreciate you, brother, Thank
• 1:17:45
  you. See Hi, Tray, how are you. Mister Sewell further stated
• 1:17:57
  that the original bid was turned over to the f and then he's under the
• 1:18:01
  impression that this office has a photostat of the same with the name of Oswald
• 1:18:08
  and the name of the other person who appeared with him. It was further
• 1:18:11
  learned from mister Seul that he recalls that at a meeting he attended that a
• 1:18:15
  salesman who was at one time employed by Bolton Ford had mentioned that this some
• 1:18:19
  Cuban type person, along with a man believed to be Oswald, had also
• 1:18:24
  come to the bolton Ford company inquiring about a truck. Mister Sewell cannot remember
• 1:18:30
  the identity of the salesman, so very interesting stuff there. They're trying to
• 1:18:35
  tie Dollzel into being that other guy. There's no pictures of Bill Dawzell out
• 1:18:41
  there, at least that I know of, and if anybody out there can
• 1:18:45
  find one, please email it to the Lone Gum And Podcast at gmail dot
• 1:18:48
  com because I'd love to see it and get my hands on it and see
• 1:18:53
  if this dude has a scar over his left eye. Now you're ready for
• 1:18:59
  this one, Joe ready? Now, as you know, we got our
• 1:19:05
  hands Joe on a on a cachet of Garrison investigation documents, right, yes,
• 1:19:12
  sir, Now, I thought this was part of the Betty Parrot interview,
• 1:19:19
  and it may be, but upon further reading, I'm not sure,
• 1:19:28
  and you'll see why in a second. Okay, hang on, I need
• 1:19:32
  a I need to wet the whistle for this one. Oak zero oh no,
• 1:19:40
  seltzer peach seltzer mm hmm. Okay, did I just all right?
• 1:19:54
  I'm back. I accidentally hit the button. All right. So there is
• 1:20:02
  a conversation between someone named L and someone named A. Okay, it's very
• 1:20:11
  vague, So Betty Parrott is neither L or A. So that's why it
• 1:20:15
  was making me think this is not an interview with Betty Parrott. But that's
• 1:20:19
  not the only thing that makes me think that as we'll become more parent.
• 1:20:25
  And it's just one page. It's one loan page page government, yes,
• 1:20:33
  but it was attached to the Betty Parrot things. So I don't know if
• 1:20:36
  this is a William Dalzel, but that's a w D. There's no B.
• 1:20:40
  This is just A and L. All right, here we go.
• 1:20:46
  Well, I got whipped in the course of that ordeal. How do you
• 1:20:53
  mean? Well just a minute, all right. I was invited for dinner
• 1:21:01
  and we were served. I was served a meal. He was at one
• 1:21:08
  end of the nine foot table and I was at the other end, just
• 1:21:13
  the two of you. Right. Well, there was a maid and she
• 1:21:20
  was and things got a little hairy. We got into a real funny situation
• 1:21:27
  in the bedroom and all kind of uh. And I was asked to do
• 1:21:33
  some strange things that I'd never been asked to do before. I see,
• 1:21:41
  like beating on the ass perform. Well let's see. Well here you go.
• 1:21:48
  Are you ready? Don't be bashful, that's all right, alrighty,
• 1:21:58
  He said to shit in his mouth and p in his mouth are all over
• 1:22:04
  him, and things like that, and it was, you know, really
• 1:22:10
  kind of traumatic. As far as I was concerned, I had never come
• 1:22:15
  across anything like this before. I've heard about people like this, but I
• 1:22:19
  had never come into contact with one, right, and it was all of
• 1:22:27
  this was real strange. He had only one nipple, Joe, this man
• 1:22:32
  only had one nipple and I don't know why, but it was real queer
• 1:22:41
  to be effing all over the place, really a massive kiss the kind of
• 1:22:48
  person. Yeah, go on to me, but I understand from other people
• 1:22:57
  that have Well, how did the whips come in? You said you were
• 1:23:02
  threatened? He asked me to beat him with him? Oh I see,
• 1:23:10
  And where did you actually do it? Well, yes, of course I
• 1:23:15
  did. And that's the end of it, Folks. I don't know if
• 1:23:21
  this was referring to Clay Shaw, that would be my first guess. So
• 1:23:31
  you can see the kind of say this masochistic, sick, twisted nastiness.
• 1:23:44
  Yeah, that this dude was into man and that is that is A or
• 1:23:50
  L? Does it matter? Oh? Man? I mean I want to
• 1:24:03
  say the l's lou ivon asking somebody I A. I thought that actually too,
• 1:24:10
  when when I was thinking about what it could ask it was like lou
• 1:24:14
  Ivan. But do they usually use the last names of the first names if
• 1:24:18
  they just do one letter? I don't know. Of course, the A
• 1:24:20
  could be Alcock. I don't know, just true too. One thing I
• 1:24:26
  thought interesting, rob long table made. Yeah, you know, I think
• 1:24:33
  we had mentioned this guy before. And of course, if you've seen the
• 1:24:38
  JFK movie, you saw Willie O'Keefe and Clay Shaw at two ends of an
• 1:24:44
  extremely long table, right, and it was kind of an awkward scene,
• 1:24:47
  whether it was talking about whips and Beaten's and they did have the whips there,
• 1:24:54
  yeah, I mean, or when they dressed up right, those those
• 1:24:57
  four and I should have gotten a picture. But in this picture was a
• 1:25:04
  file of a dude wearing like a black hooded robe like in a house.
• 1:25:11
  It's just random. It wasn't didn't say who it was or anything else,
• 1:25:15
  like a robe like the Clan robe. Yeah, could have been yeah,
• 1:25:20
  black, I'm just curious. Yeah, like a black hooded robe like you
• 1:25:26
  know, like a S and M dude. O. Well, I don't
• 1:25:31
  know either. It wasn't clay Shaw, I do know that, but maybe
• 1:25:35
  it was just somebody modeling what they found in clay Shaw's house or something.
• 1:25:40
  I don't know. Yeah, but it was wild, wild wild. And
• 1:25:45
  oh, by the way, Joe, guess where Bill Dalzel lived the cater
• 1:25:50
  No close Delphine Street, Yes, a couple of houses down. I was
• 1:26:00
  close. I was a good guest to cater and Parrott was living. Parrott
• 1:26:05
  was living with Dazel or does was living with Parrot at some point allegedly I
• 1:26:12
  think he was staying with her at some point. He was kind of like
• 1:26:14
  a move around a that kind of guy, you know what I mean.
• 1:26:18
  Yeah, one of those players of that time. Well, the chat absolutely
• 1:26:25
  loved it. By the way, we got a tone of laughing out louds
• 1:26:27
  I sure shared and uh, Sally said, you're getting too good at the
• 1:26:33
  voices. Rob, It's like she's here and sorry, bungled. We did
• 1:26:42
  not mean to lose anyone's appetite. He is close to getting lunchtime. It
• 1:26:46
  was the one nippled man. Did clay Shaw only have one nipple? I
• 1:26:53
  don't know. Uh another sound? Oh well, happy Father's Day to your
• 1:27:06
  grandfather, uh Sally hooks and handprints? Am I right? I'm not getting
• 1:27:13
  this reference? But uh, let's see did he say in the mouth I
• 1:27:21
  don't know if they say that he her or mouth wait, mouth or body
• 1:27:29
  mouth. Oh wow. And I'm not talking about under the coffee table either.
• 1:27:33
  I'm talking about right in mm hm, the long table. It's the
• 1:27:39
  elegance of the meal. I guess that's uh, I guess. M.
• 1:27:45
  Let's see uh Marty girl costumes. Yeah, yeah, sure they were and
• 1:27:55
  uh m hmmmm. All right, so that is very interesting. And we
• 1:28:01
  went from she said, he said back to she said, and that is
• 1:28:10
  very interesting here. And you know, I wanted to bring this up,
• 1:28:14
  Rob when you were talking about it, because it's actually a perfect segue into
• 1:28:18
  next week. When you were talking about Easter Lane, I'm sorry, I
• 1:28:24
  thought you were going to say something else, like what what did you think
• 1:28:28
  I was gonna say? Well, that was that would have been. That
• 1:28:30
  was the most horrible segue for what yet, what we have going on next
• 1:28:33
  week? Not not the Jesus Christ, not the butt stuff, the earlier
• 1:28:42
  New Orleans fratice take one right with that easterlink talked about and why did that
• 1:28:54
  fractice? If it happened the earlier fracas And I believe that letter to v.
• 1:28:58
  T Lee was on August first, Rob, because we talked about that
• 1:29:01
  in our presentation. So in theory, that would have happened before then write
• 1:29:06
  a day or two, I think a couple of days before then, if
• 1:29:10
  the letters being written on the first probably in the Easterling account. Now I'm
• 1:29:15
  just talking about the vt Lee letter. No, the Vtle letter was written
• 1:29:18
  in August first. That's when I met. I said, sorry, yeah,
• 1:29:23
  so, but in theory, the fractus would have had to happen before
• 1:29:26
  that first ractice first fracks take one the Easterling account of the saying but not
• 1:29:33
  eloquently. And why if that fractice happened, did it require take two on
• 1:29:42
  August ninth with people filming rob Well, because people weren't filming and it did
• 1:29:49
  not get any press the first time, so we had theorized that this was
• 1:29:54
  possibly a take one of that Oswald in August ninth fracus, A copy wasn't
• 1:30:00
  on video and he wasn't arrested. Ye didn't do a pr campaign after on
• 1:30:08
  the radio. And the segue is next week we are going to have a
• 1:30:15
  guest on and that is mister Alex Harris, the young but extremely smart photographic
• 1:30:26
  researcher just everything film and I had met him at Lancer and when we were
• 1:30:33
  having lunch, and I know you've he sent it to both you and me,
• 1:30:38
  Rob. We were having lunch on the Sunday after noon before I flew
• 1:30:43
  back to New York, and he showed me what was possibly another take either
• 1:30:50
  it would have been take two of the Martin film, which we have gone
• 1:30:55
  into before, and we were going to view some of that video next week
• 1:31:00
  here on Loegumner podcast. And this video is not out there, but I'm
• 1:31:06
  gonna save the rest for that. Yes, Joe Shaw, uh, dining
• 1:31:12
  with young underage boys in Dallas? Joe Shaw? Yeah, you Joe saw
• 1:31:21
  You're dining with underage boys in Dallas. Oh oh yes, I was like
• 1:31:29
  what I was like, I just admitted it. I know I thought you
• 1:31:31
  were going, like, but do what a great segue into our next guest,
• 1:31:42
  right little along. We're gonna be our bestest of behaviors allegedly next week
• 1:31:49
  at yeah yeah, but uh yeah, he'll be coming on. We'll be
• 1:31:55
  talking about some of what he's up to. He has some very interesting updates
• 1:31:59
  and he's doing something very neat allegedly in Dallas, and we're trying to talk
• 1:32:06
  Alpha sixty six and the into playing some parts since he's local there. Oh
• 1:32:14
  in the re enactment. Yes, yes, he's already offered to be the
• 1:32:18
  guy that has the epileptic seizure in in Daly Plaza. But there's many many
• 1:32:24
  other parts. You know what I think would be great if he would be
• 1:32:27
  the butcher man guy. That's what I said too, did you, Yeah,
• 1:32:33
  he could definitely play that part. He just like I said, just
• 1:32:35
  go down Daily Plaza. You know he could he could play umbrella man.
• 1:32:40
  He could play you knows, a prud or he could just keep on moving
• 1:32:45
  down the way, you know as Alex changes out his cameras and everything.
• 1:32:48
  Yeah, and uh so, yeah, that would be that would be fun.
• 1:32:51
  And uh we're also gonna do a little recap of some of what Rob
• 1:32:57
  and I uh researched and present that Lantern Lancer in regards to John Thomas Martin,
• 1:33:03
  the person who filmed the Martin film. Oh that reminds me, Joe.
• 1:33:12
  I got a very interesting email at the Lone Guman podcast. Email uh
• 1:33:20
  from let me pull this up real quick. It should be tiny Dancers.
• 1:33:25
  She said she found a new Martin. So I was hoping that she was
• 1:33:28
  going to email with that details. Marty Martin, is that who you're referring
• 1:33:36
  to. I don't know who it was. I just saw the comment.
• 1:33:41
  Oh her YouTube comment on something. Yeah, when you posted the update that
• 1:33:48
  we'd have it this morning. She said, Well, I was able to
• 1:33:51
  be productive since I wasn't watching The Lone Guman for hours on Friday night,
• 1:33:57
  and she found another Martin. So I was very interesting. But I find
• 1:34:01
  Martin's all the time when you start looking for these things. I was taking
• 1:34:04
  a walk in the beach. I see a plaque the Martin Bird. You
• 1:34:09
  know, I'm scrolling through things. There's a TV show that says Martin when
• 1:34:12
  you start looking out for this, and obviously, uh, you know I
• 1:34:15
  work in pattern and Dowt analysis, Like these type of things stand out to
• 1:34:18
  me. And yeah, it's crazy. Maybe it was sent to the Quick
• 1:34:27
  Hits. Let me check that real quick. Yes, it was. Sorry
• 1:34:32
  about that. I heard you guys were looking for John T. I tracked
• 1:34:40
  him down for you, all his infos in the PDF and joy from Jimmy
• 1:34:44
  James. So you haven't told me about this until now, sir, not?
• 1:34:54
  Yeah, I just got the email two days ago. All right,
• 1:34:57
  Well, this is a TLG. The more the more I look at it,
• 1:35:05
  I don't know if this is accurate from Jimmy James or not, because
• 1:35:10
  we actually did find this person that he's referring to. It's the Cape Coral,
• 1:35:19
  Florida John T. Martin with the Florida address. Yes, I do
• 1:35:27
  remember that vaguely. Yeah. The only problem is the associated emails for this
• 1:35:40
  one don't match up with remembers or himself, like one email addresses like Tony
• 1:35:49
  Hawk, you know, seven to eighty at Yahoo do. I mean,
• 1:35:54
  I don't think you know what, I don't think John T's in the skateboarding,
• 1:35:58
  you know, at seventy nine years old or whatever. And this and
• 1:36:02
  this thing is putting his age at seventy five, which is a little on
• 1:36:12
  the young side when knowing what we know about when he was born and all
• 1:36:15
  that. And there's many one, two, three, four or five,
• 1:36:23
  six, at least six addresses around Minneapolis, and I don't think this guy
• 1:36:28
  would be moving around that much. One of them could be right, and
• 1:36:33
  two of them in apartments. I don't think he's an apartment liver. I
• 1:36:42
  mean, I think this guy's got somewhere. Well, Rob, I'm not
• 1:36:45
  going to mention his name because he's undercover, but a known researcher is trying
• 1:36:53
  to help us out with this. We do have not given up on our
• 1:36:58
  search for John T. Martin. Uh and we did have information rob that
• 1:37:03
  he was snowbirding during the summer, which some East Coasters will know. That
• 1:37:09
  means when you live in the kind of northeast or top cold part of the
• 1:37:14
  country, you go down to Florida for the winter for like January through March
• 1:37:19
  April. And uh so, Coral Gables, Florida doesn't seem like a Florida
• 1:37:28
  address. Doesn't seem crazy to me based on that information he got, not
• 1:37:31
  saying that's that, just pointing out right, you know, Yeah, it
• 1:37:35
  could be it could be right, and it might be. Yes, I
• 1:37:41
  don't know. We got we got two phone numbers to call and see working.
• 1:37:46
  I don't know. Yeah, but I will pass this alonger information to
• 1:37:50
  our boots on the ground guy up in Minnesota who could check out this information
• 1:37:56
  for us and see if it's legit or not. He ain't skirts folks to
• 1:38:00
  go knock on a door too for so we'll keep you posted as the world
• 1:38:05
  turns. Yeah, yeah, and so next week should be a fun episode.
• 1:38:12
  And you know, we're thank you for the over over forty people that
• 1:38:18
  are joining us right now on this Sunday morning, and we had fun time.
• 1:38:25
  I know that we will be back at the same bat time next week
• 1:38:30
  allegedly seven pm. Worsn six Bobbs. Yeah, wors than six bobbs.
• 1:38:38
  Yes, So with that just kidding, Joe, say what you want to
• 1:38:45
  say about how was it? I was done? Looking forward to next week
• 1:38:50
  as am I as am I. We're gonna have a special guests on the
• 1:38:57
  show. We're gonna be live with you ridy night, so we'll see you
• 1:39:02
  then. Thanks for hanging out with today. Everyone. Enjoy your Sunday,
• 1:39:06
  Happy Father's Day. Yes, I hope you have a great one. And
• 1:39:11
  until next time, folks, Tiny dancer you hit me at the last second.
• 1:39:19
  It is the Lone Gunman podcast at gmail dot com. And if you
• 1:39:26
  can't remember that, you can always hit I'll get I'll get to it quick
• 1:39:31
  hits JFK at gmail dot com. Either one, I'll get them. I
• 1:39:40
  am the proprietor. And yes we've tried Uncle Dave. You get Uncle ted
• 1:39:49
  on along with you, sir. We hope that, we hope to make
• 1:39:55
  that happen one day for sure, gonna be a hell of a show.
• 1:40:02
  But anyway, until next week, folks for a handsome Joey Scarsborelli. It's
• 1:40:11
  your boy, the Triple B, Big Bad Bob. Until next time,
• 1:40:14
  folks, Peace, peace, have a good rest of your weekend. Guys,
• 1:40:24
  Yes, Angie ad you Helloha. Peace helped