Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 19

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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 19 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, so Ada Guthrie's mother, Nancy
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Guthrie missing day nineteen.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: This as we learned new DNA evidence discovered.
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  Speaker 1: What I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us. But Canon amateur
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  Speaker 1: really elude the FBI for this wrong.
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  Speaker 3: And obviously Nancy, he doesn't even know what he's doing
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  Speaker 3: and he's looking at the ground.
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  Speaker 2: It's just like a lot.
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  Speaker 3: Of wrong in this picture.
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  Speaker 2: What was he doing in that home?
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  Speaker 1: Seemingly more updates every night during the night news unfolds
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  Speaker 1: in the search for Nancy Guthrie. We are learning about
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  Speaker 1: new DNA found two weeks after Nancy goes missing, a
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  Speaker 1: pinky ring that seems to be easily identifiable. This as
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  Speaker 1: a search extends into Mexico. So regardless of what authorities
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  Speaker 1: are trying to tell us, that is so much more.
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  Speaker 1: As Google is lending another helping hand with me an
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  Speaker 1: all star panel to make sense of what we're learning
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  Speaker 1: right now. Is Nancy Guthrie alive? Is Nancy Guthrie dead?
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  Speaker 1: What is her family going through? As we go to
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  Speaker 1: air right now, Dave mac joining me Crime Stories investigative
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  Speaker 1: reporter New DNA what.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you know what, Nancy.
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  Speaker 4: Earlier this week, we knew that law enforcement investigators had
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  Speaker 4: been back at the house, and we knew they were
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  Speaker 4: looking for something. Well, apparently they were all over the
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  Speaker 4: house looking for biological material and that's what they found.
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  Speaker 4: Investigators found biological material that does not belong to Nancy Guthrie.
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  Speaker 4: They found it inside the home. And again you pointed
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  Speaker 4: it out, weeks after the home had already been searched,
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  Speaker 4: after evidence had been collected, and after the home was
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  Speaker 4: briefly turned back to the family before the investigators shut
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  Speaker 4: it back down. But still two weeks this crime began,
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  Speaker 4: law enforcement finding biological material inside the home that does
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  Speaker 4: not belong to Nancy Guthrie.
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  Speaker 1: Guys, we're showing you Nancy's home right now. This is
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: from our friends at twelve News. There's so many directions
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  Speaker 1: to go with this bombshell. It's maybe a bombshell to
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  Speaker 1: only crime watchers, crime aficionados, people like US prosecutors, former
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  Speaker 1: FBI lawyers, shrinks.
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  Speaker 2: DNA experts.
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  Speaker 1: You got a big, big problem with the fact that
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  Speaker 1: this DNA is discovered two weeks later. Let's go ahead,
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  Speaker 1: let's tackle it head on. Joining me Kelly Hyman, veteran
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  Speaker 1: trial attorney, analysts podcast star of What's Upon a Crime
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  Speaker 1: in Hollywood. Kelly, go ahead, I've got I'm ready for you.
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  Speaker 1: See I know what you're gonna say, and I'm ready
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  Speaker 1: for you.
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  Speaker 2: Go ahead, attack the DNA. I'm ready.
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  Speaker 5: DNA is key to this case. Why is DNA so important?
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  Speaker 5: Because the DNA can prove who was there? The DNA
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  Speaker 5: can help substantiate who was in the house at this time.
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  Speaker 5: The police went in and then two weeks later find
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  Speaker 5: this DNA all of a sudden, after two weeks it's found.
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  Speaker 5: Now I could see a lot of couch investigators saying
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  Speaker 5: that there's something wrong with that. Why didn't they find
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  Speaker 5: this DNA the first time? Why is it all of
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  Speaker 5: a sudden being found? Nancy?
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  Speaker 2: Okay, there you go. That's just a tiny, tiny tidbit. Kelly.
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  Speaker 1: Him is actually being generous and delicate with this attack,
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  Speaker 1: because let me assure you that when and if this
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  Speaker 1: goes to trial, there will be a frontal attack on
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  Speaker 1: this DNA.
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  Speaker 2: Here's my response.
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  Speaker 1: So they find the perp, Okay, this DNA has already
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  Speaker 1: been found, Okay, even though it's late to the party.
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  Speaker 1: When they find the perp. That's going to be much later.
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  Speaker 1: So what their mind readers. They now know who the
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  Speaker 1: purp is, They go get his DNA and they plant it. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: straight out to Scott Iiker joining me. Uh oh, Now,
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  Speaker 1: I'm giving her time to come up with her next attack,
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  Speaker 1: and believe me.
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  Speaker 2: She will.
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  Speaker 1: Scott Iiker joined me, digital forensics expert, founding member of
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  Speaker 1: the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team. They're the ones behind
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  Speaker 1: the scenes that are getting all the phone numbers and
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  Speaker 1: phone data and much much more from the area.
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  Speaker 2: That I contend is why they pull.
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  Speaker 1: Over the first guy that first catch and release. Remember him,
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  Speaker 1: He was released and I think he was picked up
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  Speaker 1: because his phone kept pinging in the area. He had
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  Speaker 1: nothing to do with it. By the way, I hate
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  Speaker 1: to even keep mentioning his name. He had nothing to
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  Speaker 1: do with this. But that's what cast is doing and
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  Speaker 1: much much more. Also, former homicide detective with Norfolk, Virginia
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  Speaker 1: twelve years now, he is with Precision Cellular Analysis at
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  Speaker 1: PCA Experts dot com. As much as I am pooh
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  Speaker 1: pooing her, Kelly Hyman is right, this is going to
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  Speaker 1: be subjected to a huge attack. I imagine what happened, Scott,
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  Speaker 1: is that the local Pema County went in a process
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  Speaker 1: the scene.
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  Speaker 2: The FBI was.
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  Speaker 1: Finally allowed in, and they reprocessed it and found the DNA.
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  Speaker 2: What do you think?
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  Speaker 6: I think you're correct. There also the scenarios change. You know,
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  Speaker 6: first of all, it was a missing person, and then
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  Speaker 6: later on we'd get ransom, and now we're looking at
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  Speaker 6: as a kidnapping. So you come in with fresh eyes
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  Speaker 6: or different eyes to look at different things.
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  Speaker 2: Now.
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  Speaker 6: I definitely think that a full processor should have been
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  Speaker 6: done immediately once they realized this was possibly a kidnapping.
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  Speaker 6: But fresh eyes and the FBI with a specialized equipment
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  Speaker 6: and knowledge, that's always good to go back and look again.
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  Speaker 6: As long as they've kept the crime scene, you know,
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  Speaker 6: which it appears that they have not. We could still
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  Speaker 6: go in and look for DNA and hopefully any other
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  Speaker 6: evidence and recover it.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, well, Scott Iiker, let's let me have you address
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  Speaker 1: this because you've been with a local police department in Norfolk, Virginia.
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  Speaker 1: You were a homicide detective there and you were fed
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  Speaker 1: for many many years. Let's give PEMA a time me
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  Speaker 1: break here. This type of ransom kidnap for ransom is rare.
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  Speaker 1: I can count them on two hands that we know of. Right,
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  Speaker 1: I've done a lot of kidnaps. I've investigated and prosecuted kidnaps,
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  Speaker 1: but not of this nature.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: More like carjack, put the victim in the car and
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  Speaker 1: take off, that's kidnap. More like take the victim to
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  Speaker 1: a secluded location and raper, that's a kidnap. There are many,
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  Speaker 1: many genre of kidnaps, right, Kidnap for ransom.
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  Speaker 2: Is a very rare bird.
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  Speaker 1: Indeed, so not just PEMA, but generally all across the country.
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  Speaker 1: Expertise in kidnap cases, it's few and far between.
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  Speaker 2: Would you agree with that?
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  Speaker 6: I definitely agree. And local police departments normally wouldn't deal
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  Speaker 6: with this in the first place. Once becomes a suspected kidnapping,
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  Speaker 6: the federal authorities can come in and help those local
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  Speaker 6: police departments. And we do come in with a lot
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  Speaker 6: of experts in several different aspects. DNA, cellular stuff, BAU
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  Speaker 6: are our behavioral analys this analysis unit. All this can
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  Speaker 6: help those local police departments get a grip on what's
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  Speaker 6: going on here and help them work through the caves.
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  Speaker 1: And I understand, I disagree, but I understand why they
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  Speaker 1: are very possessive of the case that they started investigating,
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  Speaker 1: and they look. When I was stay prosecutor, I like
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  Speaker 1: the FEDS because I had benefited been a FED before.
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  Speaker 1: But I also loathed them because they act like they
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  Speaker 1: know everything because they do, but they really rub it
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  Speaker 1: in and they bigfoot you. Nobody likes that, but when
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  Speaker 1: you're trying to do what's best for your case, you.
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  Speaker 2: Let them in.
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  Speaker 1: So I wonder about how much the delay of bringing
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  Speaker 1: the FEDS in on this cost the investigation. And now
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  Speaker 1: we're seeing the first fatality. I'm not saying the DNA
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  Speaker 1: was planted. That's impossible because we don't know who the
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  Speaker 1: culprit is yet, right, so you can't.
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  Speaker 2: Plant the DNA. That said Kelly Hyman is right.
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  Speaker 1: This DNA is going to be subjected to a strict
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  Speaker 1: scrutiny and a heated cross examination, and I hope the
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  Speaker 1: state and the DNA can survive.
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  Speaker 2: Look at OJ.
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  Speaker 1: Do somebody really believe the LAPD had the wherewithal to
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  Speaker 1: go plant the victim's blood on Simpson socks?
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  Speaker 3: No?
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  Speaker 1: And I guarantee you after all these years, whoever did
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  Speaker 1: the planting or who knows about the planting would have
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  Speaker 1: done a blockbuster movie and a book and made millions
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  Speaker 1: and millions of dollars. Hasn't happened Because that didn't happen.
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  Speaker 1: Nobody planted this DNA. It be impossible at this juncture
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  Speaker 1: now speaking of DNA so heavily, and I haven't even gotten.
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  Speaker 2: To the rest of the news yet.
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  Speaker 1: To Tammy Balor joining us, she is a DNA crime
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  Speaker 1: scene consultant. Crime Scene investigation and reconstruction is her specialty.
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  Speaker 1: This is the important part for our purposes tonight. Former
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  Speaker 1: DNA criminalist at the San Diego Police Department Crime Lab,
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  Speaker 1: San Diego. Never a lack of business, never a lack
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  Speaker 1: of DNA experimentation going on in that lab. Tammy Ballard,
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  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Okay, you're the expert.
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  Speaker 1: I could make a stab at asking you the questions,
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  Speaker 1: but you tell me your thoughts first. By the way,
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  Speaker 1: That's how I would always approach an expert when preparing
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  Speaker 1: for trial. I recognize you know a lot more than
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  Speaker 1: any of us on this panel about DNA, so instruct us,
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  Speaker 1: teach us.
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  Speaker 2: Tell me your thoughts on this, Tammy Ballard.
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  Speaker 7: Well, with respect to the finding the DNA two weeks later.
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  Speaker 6: My first thought would be to compare that.
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  Speaker 7: To the DNA from everybody who has entered that resident,
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  Speaker 7: just to rule that out so there's no embarrassment down
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  Speaker 7: the road. I'm not nobody's perfect. I've returned to scenes
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  Speaker 7: and found additional evidence. Everybody wishes they could go to
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  Speaker 7: a scene and process just to make sure they didn't
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  Speaker 7: overlook anything. The two week later thing is a little tough,
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  Speaker 7: but it is what it is, and again, the important
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  Speaker 7: thing is that that's getting.
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  Speaker 1: Comb I need to follow up on something you just said.
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  Speaker 1: Did you say that you timmy ballor have gone back.
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  Speaker 2: To scenes to process them again.
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  Speaker 7: If more information has come out and I'm allowed to
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  Speaker 7: go to a scene and check for additional items. I've
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  Speaker 7: also returned to a scene with one of the guru
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  Speaker 7: rus Tom Bevell, who is from bebel Gardner and associates,
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  Speaker 7: and walked through my double homicide with him and learned
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  Speaker 7: from him about some additional stains that I could have collected.
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  Speaker 7: So you know, you got to stay humble, stay open.
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  Speaker 7: Everybody there should be as a team and just trying
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  Speaker 7: to do the right thing and find Nancy Guthrie on
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  Speaker 7: the perpetrator.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, that sentiment is shared by everyone on the panel.
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  Speaker 2: What do you mean you went back with.
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  Speaker 1: Bevel and he pointed out additional things that you should
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  Speaker 1: have tested, and then that point, from that point on,
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  Speaker 1: you did that.
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  Speaker 2: What additional things did he has struck for you to test?
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  Speaker 7: Well, if we're speaking technically, I had an interesting injury
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  Speaker 7: on one of my victims in the double homicide, and
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  Speaker 7: there was a blood stained pattern adjacent to where his
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  Speaker 7: head had been. And I learned from Tom Bevell that
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  Speaker 7: that that actually wasn't an additional shot fired that shared
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  Speaker 7: with it struck the victim, so it was changed my
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  Speaker 7: number of shots fired. It made me look so much
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  Speaker 7: closer at bloodstained.
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  Speaker 2: Patterns crime stories with Nancy Grace. Timmy, you said that
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  Speaker 2: the bullet cheared. What do you mean by that?
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  Speaker 7: One of the bullets struck my victim in the forehead,
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  Speaker 7: and actually some of the bullet fragments entered into his
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  Speaker 7: head and some of them sheered off and went directly
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  Speaker 7: perpendicular to the victim's head through the door. So tiny,
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  Speaker 7: tiny circular stains that I had overlooked after being in
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  Speaker 7: a crime scene for probably twenty four hours. That was
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  Speaker 7: something that I had overlooked, and it was great to
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  Speaker 7: have somebody who is an absolute legend in the field
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  Speaker 7: be able to walk through my scene with me and
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  Speaker 7: point that out.
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  Speaker 5: So that was very useful.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, that's a great rendition. Okay, that would support going
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: back to the scene. And you're right, everyone that has
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  Speaker 1: processed the scene has to now be tested for DNA.
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  Speaker 1: They have to give their DNA to prove it's not
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  Speaker 1: their DNA that's been found. And we see that a
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  Speaker 1: lot in when there are claims of contamination across contamination, like.
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  Speaker 2: Within the lab somebody touched the specimen and.
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  Speaker 1: Got their DNA, and it's a horrible, horrible detour for the.
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  Speaker 2: State to have to make when presenting a case.
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  Speaker 1: Right up front you have to say, yeah, we screwed
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  Speaker 1: up the DNA, but yet I want you to believe
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  Speaker 1: the DNA.
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  Speaker 2: So that's a problem. But what the prize is is
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: is finding Nancy Guthrie, and that is just a sideshow.
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  Speaker 2: We'll deal with that if and when we ever get
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  Speaker 2: to trial.
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  Speaker 1: So what type of DNA Tammy Ballard do you believe
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  Speaker 1: was found? Obviously by the Feds by two weeks and
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  Speaker 1: Dave mac anybody on the panel jump in if I'm wrong.
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  Speaker 1: After about two weeks, I'm pretty sure the Feds were
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  Speaker 1: already in.
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  Speaker 7: There was a.
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  Speaker 1: Standoff for a while where the locals did not want
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  Speaker 1: them in. They're refusing to admit that it's true they
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: did get in, so I'm imagining it's them that went back.
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  Speaker 1: So what type of DNA do you believe they found
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  Speaker 1: they didn't see the first time.
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  Speaker 7: I can only imagine that it was going to be
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  Speaker 7: an item of evidence that is an outlier, not necessarily
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  Speaker 7: a bloodstain or any touch DNA from something that is
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  Speaker 7: stationary in the home I'm expecting. I would imagine that
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  Speaker 7: it's going to be some sort of article from something
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  Speaker 7: that is something that you can remove from that home.
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  Speaker 2: So not a table, not a sofa.
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  Speaker 7: It's going to be in some sort of article of
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  Speaker 7: clothing or a tool or something that is going to
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  Speaker 7: be that outlier where there will the DNA on that item.
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  Speaker 1: Again, joining us an all star panel trying to make
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  Speaker 1: sense of everything you know to doctor Bethany Marshall, joining us,
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  Speaker 1: psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction, author of deal Breaker.
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  Speaker 2: You can see her on Peacock and find her.
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  Speaker 1: At Doctor Bethany Marshall dot com Doctor Bethany, I know
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  Speaker 1: that this is a step forward, but sometimes it must
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: feel for the family that it's one step forward, two
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  Speaker 1: steps back.
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  Speaker 3: You don't, Nancy, of course, it feels that way to them,
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  Speaker 3: because what's horrible for the family is the unknown. They
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: have no idea if they're mother is dead or alive.
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  Speaker 3: They don't know how she's been treated. And Nancy, when
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: we face the unknown, we project into it our worst
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  Speaker 3: possible fears. That's how we evolved as a BCS biologically,
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  Speaker 3: is we evolve to be suspicious of the unknown so
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  Speaker 3: we could keep ourselves safe. But that's what causes anxiety,
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  Speaker 3: right when we don't know how a situation is going
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  Speaker 3: to turn out. So in this case with the mother,
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: they're going to be wondering like is she cold? Is
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: she being fed? What about her medications? How has she
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  Speaker 3: been treated by the perpetrator? Are they kind to her?
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  Speaker 3: Are they cruel to her? Has she passed? If so,
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  Speaker 3: under what circumstances? Was there somebody there to hold her hand?
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  Speaker 3: I mean, this is this is agonizing for the family.
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  Speaker 2: They need to know.
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  Speaker 3: They need all these details so that they can sleep,
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  Speaker 3: so that they can think so that they can move
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  Speaker 3: on with their lives. They need their mother back, whether
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: she's deceased or alive, Nancy, they need to know what's
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: happened to her.
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  Speaker 2: You know, doctor Bethany Marshall.
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  Speaker 1: When I learned there was new DNA, well, let me
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: rephrase newly discovered DNA. I was elated, but then I
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: was immediately concerned and worried about how the DNA was
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: going to be attacked and how this would affect the family.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: They'll be happy at first, but then they'll start questioning
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  Speaker 1: the entire investigation.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Why wasn't it found to start with? It could be
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: something as simple Tammy Ballard is going back in to
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  Speaker 2: do I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: Let's just go with a touch DNA analysis, redoing the
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: home with.
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  Speaker 2: An alternate light source to find DNA.
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  Speaker 1: After they realized the purp had been touching with the
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: gloves on, touching that bite light over and over and over,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: touching the wholester over and over and over.
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  Speaker 2: It that's just what we saw.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: What else did we not see? For Pete's sake, did
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: he blow his nose? I don't know, but maybe after
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: they evaluated that doorcam video, they got an idea and
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  Speaker 1: went back in it could be as innocent and easily
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: explainable as that, right.
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  Speaker 7: Correct, They definitely went back into reprocess and again hopefully
• 19:30
  Speaker 7: with a fresh set of eyes and more of a
• 19:34
  Speaker 7: diverse approach so that they can additional evidence can be obtained.
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  Speaker 7: So again, I can only speculate, but there's always the
• 19:46
  Speaker 7: chance that something fell off of the perpetrator with a struggle.
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  Speaker 7: So maybe that was something that got overlooked. It could
• 19:54
  Speaker 7: have been underneath the side of a couch, it could
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  Speaker 7: have been something that just kicked when everybody in the
• 20:00
  Speaker 7: home and they realize that it's there. So it's something
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  Speaker 7: to consider. And my thought would be, worry about getting
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  Speaker 7: DNA from that item, now, worry about excluding other people
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  Speaker 7: from it that have been in the house for the
• 20:15
  Speaker 7: investigation and the family members, and then worry about the
• 20:19
  Speaker 7: downstream process later.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: You're right. You're right, guys.
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  Speaker 1: The reason we're spending so much time on the newly
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: discovered DNA is because it could crack the case wide open.
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  Speaker 2: There's not just CODIS, the National DNA data Bank.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: There is also the Arizona Databank that allows much more diverse,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: let me say euphemistically, DNA profiles in there. You can
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: have DNA from crime scenes that are unsolved, you can
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: have DNA from just suspects that have not been convicted.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: You can have all sorts of.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: DNA in the Arizona Data Bank that is not allowed
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: due to strict regulation of the National CODIS Data Bank.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Going with this, it's a much more diverse array of
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: DNA and there's over a half a million DNA profiles
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: in the Arizona Databank. Then you've got Interpols DNA Databank.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: You even have a Iphamilia, which is out of Mexico
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: and other jurisdictions. Now, the Mexican Data Bank deals mostly
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: with identifying missing people, dead bodies, victims that have not
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: been identified. But still there's DNA in there to be mined.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: So we're just getting started with the whole DNA process.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: And speaking of Mexico, straight out to Dave Mack from
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories, Dave mac, we're learning regardless of what Nanos
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: keeps trying to stuff down our throat.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: I'm not swallowing.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Number one, they are looking in Mexico and it's not
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: just them, Isn't it true? The Guthrie family has reached
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: out to a group of moms in Mexico that search
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: for missing people.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: Tell me, the searching mothers of Sonora. That's who the
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: Guthrie family has reached out to. This group of women
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: actually search for missing people in Sonora. Now, the reason
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: this is important, Nancy, is there is No Gallas Arizona
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: and No Gallas Sonora, Mexico, just across the border. We're
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: talking sixty miles south of Tucson. You go through No
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: Gallas Arizona to No Gallas Mexico, and the searching mothers
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: of Sonora have been contacted by the Guthrie family to
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: try and help find Nancy Guthrie. It is more than
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: just possible, Nancy, that Nancy Guthrie could have been taken
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: across the border right there at No Gallas.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, I am so ill right now, Dave MATC scott Iker.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: The family is having to reach out to Mexico. What
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Why is the family having to do the work of
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: the sheriff. Of course they should reach out to Mexico.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Do I believe she's in Mexico? Don't know, could be
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: because it's so close. But why is the family, why
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: is Savannah Guthrie at her siblings at a time like this,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: having to do the job of law enforcement help me out.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Iker.
• 23:33
  Speaker 6: It is kind of strange that their family is doing
• 23:36
  Speaker 6: the reaching out. You got to remember, I believe the
• 23:39
  Speaker 6: FBI and maybe the Sheriff's office is reaching out to
• 23:42
  Speaker 6: Mexico but not telling us about it. They should be
• 23:46
  Speaker 6: doing that in the first place, because Tucson is only
• 23:49
  Speaker 6: sixty miles from the border. But these nonprofit situations, hey,
• 23:53
  Speaker 6: you know, why not use anything that we can. And
• 23:56
  Speaker 6: if the Guthrie family thinks, hey, these mom group and
• 24:01
  Speaker 6: just across the work and help at all, let's why
• 24:04
  Speaker 6: not try that too.
• 24:06
  Speaker 8: I wanted to come on and it's been two weeks
• 24:12
  Speaker 8: since our mom was taken, and I just wanted to
• 24:18
  Speaker 8: come on and say that we still have hope and
• 24:27
  Speaker 8: we still believe.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: You can buy a burner phone under any name, not
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: your own.
• 24:33
  Speaker 6: You don't have to put a name on it because
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: you've already paid the phone company. What they want is their.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Money, So you may never know if it were for
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: the video who bought the Burner phone used outside Nancy
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Guthrie's home at the time she was kidnap. The FEDS
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: and the locals tracking down every single tip all this
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: while eighty four year old Nancy Guthrie is missing. You know,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: we're talking about reaching out to Mexico and finding out
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: whether Nancy Guthrie was taken across the border, which is
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: entirely possible since it is so close to Nancy Guthrie's home.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: What about it, Dave mac Not only.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: Very close Nancy, but the crossing point at No Gallas
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: for exact example, No Gallas in Sonora, Mexico. So we've
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: got a quick shot. You realize that the glove that
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: was tossed out of a vehicle, we don't know if
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: it's a glove that we're looking at right there, but
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: it was tossed out on a road heading towards Interstate nineteen.
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: Interstate nineteen runs from near Nancy Guthrie's home straight to
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: No Gallas and crossing the border from the United States
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: into Mexico far different than coming the other way. Only
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: one in twenty five or so vehicles even gets checked
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: going across the border from the United States in New
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: Mexico at any time. Not that difficult. Crossing at night
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: simple and getting a woman out of the United States
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: in New Mexico be a breeze, So looking into Gallas
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: is not only smart at this point, I cannot believe
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: they're not feed on the ground.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Looking to doctor Bethany Marshall, you have familiarity with the
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: searching mothers of Sonora.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: What can you tell me I do.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Because I've heard them interviewed Nancy. These women are fierce.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: They are sick and tired of this culture of kidnap okay,
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: and they have different tools at their disposal. They may
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: not have all the DNA testing and all of that,
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: but they have something very powerful. They have connections. They
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: know people, They know people who know people, and they have,
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: many of them their own husbands and sons who have
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: been affected. So they are on the search. They are
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: on the hunt, and they are people to be reckoned with.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: And I think it's very smart that the family reached
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: out to.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Them theive mac.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Another issue you with extending research into Mexico is that
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Mexican authorities, and we've seen this with Americans that go
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: missing there and fall to violence there, don't go to
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Mexico on a vacation.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Just listen to me, all right.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: They have a very different standard of investigation than we
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: do in the US.
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: They do Nancy and you know, it's just a different culture.
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: And when we have actually been involved in investigations in Mexico,
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: and I say we being the United States of America,
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: oftentimes we run up against local authorities who are not
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: necessarily on the up and up as we would expect.
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: So a lot of times in Mexico when we're dealing
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: even with law enforcement, Nancy, we don't know who's the
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: real law enforcement and who's really in charge. This is
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: a problem that Mexico has a college for years that
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: they have a problem in their own policing. So that's
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: the problem we run up against.
• 28:05
  Speaker 8: To whoever has her or knows where she is, that
• 28:16
  Speaker 8: it's never too late, and you're not lost or alone,
• 28:28
  Speaker 8: and it is never too late to do the right thing.
• 28:32
  Speaker 8: And we are here. We believe, and we believe in
• 28:41
  Speaker 8: the essential goodness of every human being, and it's never
• 28:48
  Speaker 8: too late. On behalf of our family. We want to
• 28:52
  Speaker 8: thank all of you for the prayers for our beloved
• 28:56
  Speaker 8: mom f Fancy. We feel then, and we continue to
• 29:02
  Speaker 8: believe that she feels them too. Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal,
• 29:12
  Speaker 8: fiercely loving woman of goodness and light. She's funny, spunky,
• 29:20
  Speaker 8: and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd
• 29:26
  Speaker 8: around her and cover her with kisses. She loves fun
• 29:31
  Speaker 8: and adventure. She is a devoted friend. She is full
• 29:36
  Speaker 8: of kindness and knowledge.
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: Talk to her and.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: You'll see.
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: The light is missing from our lives.
• 29:48
  Speaker 8: Nancy is our mother.
• 29:51
  Speaker 6: We are her children. She is our beacon.
• 29:56
  Speaker 8: She holds fast to joy and end all of life's circumstances,
• 30:03
  Speaker 8: she chooses joy day after day.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: There you see the Guthrie siblings begging for the return
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: of their mother, Nancy Guthrie. The investigation goes on now,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: extending into Mexico. We learn hopefully the Mexican I Familia
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: database will be used for DNA as well as international databases. Guys,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: we also are learning about polygraphs that went down into
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: the evening last night.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Dave mac what about it?
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: Well, as normally a case develops with everybody involved. Now
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: you've got workers all around the house that are being
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: investigated because they should. Anyone with access to the home
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: has been brought in, and we're talking about people even
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: including the pool workers that came by the other day
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: to clean the pool. Nancy Guthrie doesn't normally have a
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: pool cleaning service. The family called it out to make
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: sure that it was being kept up. But you know what, Nancy,
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: everybody with access to that home, everybody with access to
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: Nancy Guthrie, probably people at church as well as everywhere else,
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: is being polygraphed to find out everything law enforcement can
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: at this point. And as you mentioned early on, somebody
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: rejecting a polygraph is going to become a huge suspect.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Dave mac did you actually say that the church congregates
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: are being polygraphed or they should be polygraphed.
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: Should be polygraphed? I miss both, but everybody should be nan.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Actually I agree with you.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: I'm not impugning them or suggesting ron doing on their part,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: but everyone connected to Nancy Guthrie should volunteer for a
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: polygraph done.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: What's the problem.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: So the reason I'm saying that Kelly Hyman is here's
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: the goal. Standard Mark class. When his daughter Polly went missing,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: she was abducted in a sleepover party of her and
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: her little friends at her mom's home. Well, they came
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: bamming on his door and he went, fine, take my fingerprints,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: do whatever you want. Search my place, search my car,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: search my office, I'll do a poly right now, so
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: you can get past me and find my daughter. So
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: I don't see a problem with everybody connected to Nancy
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Guthrie getting a polygraph.
• 32:28
  Speaker 6: Now.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Of course, they are not allowed in a criminal trial
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: unless stipulated.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Ahead of time. We all know that, all the legal
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: eagles know that.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: But I have used polygraphs as an investigative tool in
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: the past.
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: No stone should gonna go unturn Nancy in this case,
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: and so the polygraphs should be done as well. And
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: you're right, bring up a really good point. If there's
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: nothing to hide, if there's transparency, then it's really important
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: for people to give polygraphs. It's really important for people
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: to give up their DNA on which the family has
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: given their DNA and been ruled out as a suspect.
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: But going back to the DNA, like, it's really important
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: that this kind of stuff is key to the case.
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: Why the DNA is so important because it can help
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: substantiate who is there and DNA can be used in
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: the court of law. Of course, now the DNA that
• 33:21
  Speaker 5: was found two weeks later could potentially be challenged, But
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: it's really important to look at.
• 33:27
  Speaker 7: What is available.
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: What is available in regards to resources that are out there,
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: whether it's using the FBI database or potentially also looking
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: at genetic databases as well, like something like twenty three
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: in ME in which people can opt out of their
• 33:47
  Speaker 5: information and so that that can't be discovered. However, with
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: a court of law, potentially can get a warrant out
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: there to leave at DNA as well.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Crime stores.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: With Nancy Grace, polygraph's going down at the Pema Sheriff's office.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: No revelation as of right now as to who is
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: being polygraphed. This as a reality show has reared its
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: ugly head, Dave mac a reality show Nancy.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: The show is called Desert Law. It encompasses the Pima
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: County Sheriff's Department, which is one of the largest in
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: the country. And believe it or not, this is an
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: embedded elite group of sheriff's deputies that are being followed
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: by cameras on a daily basis. And the show just premiered.
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: And we're talking about a program on A and E
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: that just premiered, as this is exploding all over the country.
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: And by the way, the sheriff Nanos is not particularly
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: featured on the program yet but he is consulting and
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: directing where to head with different investigations and helping the
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: actual show behind the scenes. So yes, Desert Law Live
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: from p McGannon.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: To doctor Bethany Marshall joining us psychoanalyst. The Sheriff's office.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: In the Nancy Guthrie case has its own reality show.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Now apparently Nanos has not appeared on camera yet, but
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: coordinates with the production company behind the scenes.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know, just gut reaction. Not a good look, thoughts.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: It's not a good look you, Nancy.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: I've been on so many reality shows. They take hours
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: and hours.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: When you watch five.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: Minutes on a reality TV show, sometimes those people that
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: the cast members have been filmed for three or four
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: days to get that five minutes. So we're worried about
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: not enough resources on the ground there in that particular jurisdiction,
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: but all those resources are being pulled away towards a
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: TV show. It's really diluting the resources that they need
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: to find Nancy Guthrie. That was my gut reaction to this.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm curious, Kelly, what do you think about this?
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it would hurt a trial or not.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Maybe, how.
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: Well, when you look at it from a legal perspective
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: and you think about the trial that you have to
• 36:25
  Speaker 5: look at the prosecution that brings the case. They have
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: to prove every element of the crime. They have to
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: prove every element. So when you look at that, you're
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: only going to be looking at what exactly the charges are,
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: whether it's kidnapping, and what are the elements to prove
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: those crimes. Because when the juries sit, as you know, Nancy,
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: they're not supposed to look at outside evidence. They're only
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: supposed to look at evidence that is going to affect
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: the case and that is going to help substantiate the
• 36:53
  Speaker 5: case as well.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: And so when the.
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: Juries look at that, they're just going to look at
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: the charges and also what the prosecution to prove up
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: the case.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: You know, there's another issue. Nanos is now hosting a
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: number of cherry picked reporters his teacher's pets in his
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: office for one on one interviews. His office is professionally
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: lit for TV what happened to good old fashioned pressers?
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Where everybody shows up and asks the hard questions what
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: about it?
• 37:28
  Speaker 6: Scott Iiker, Well, if you're going to do cherry picking
• 37:33
  Speaker 6: of pressman reporters. You've got the control of the interview,
• 37:39
  Speaker 6: and it's not going to look crazy like it does
• 37:42
  Speaker 6: in a regular press conference. So I think if he
• 37:45
  Speaker 6: wants to limit his exposure and try to maintain the
• 37:48
  Speaker 6: integrity of the case, maybe it's a good idea to
• 37:51
  Speaker 6: you know, do one on ones instead of you know,
• 37:53
  Speaker 6: getting beat up by you know, forty different reporters.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Investigative reporter, mac can I confirm with you that today
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: is February nineteen.
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: Yes, it is February nineteen, twenty twenty six.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: I'm very surprised it took you that long to answer,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: But that said to doctor Bethany Marshall, the last presser
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: was February five, Bethany, February five.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Nancy.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: I noticed that as well, and I started watching some
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: of the individual interviews that he gave, and he's choosing
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: reporters from very big networks like maybe NewsNation or CNN,
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: and that leaves out that weeds out the reporters from
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: smaller outlets that really might ask incisive questions, just like
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: the reality TV show, Nancy. This is diluting his time,
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: diluting his resources. He could take one hour doing a presser,
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: but instead hours and hours individually with reporters. This is
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: time he could spend finding Nancy Guthrie.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Scott Iiker before we continue down the trail of finger
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: pointing at a time when Nancy Guthrie is still missing.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: What about the possibility that has been brought up tracking
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: vehicles in the area through GPS through their own GPS trackers?
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: How would that even work? And you have to know
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: which car it was in order to get into their
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: NAV system.
• 39:22
  Speaker 6: Well, there are several different aspects. I mean, we know
• 39:24
  Speaker 6: that some cars, some of the newer cars have cell
• 39:27
  Speaker 6: phones in them. We're doing that with the cast team.
• 39:30
  Speaker 6: We also know that a lot of companies put GPS
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: trackers on their vehicles. Rental car companies put GPS trackers
• 39:39
  Speaker 6: on their vehicles, so we could go to them and
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: pull and see what if any of their vehicles were
• 39:46
  Speaker 6: in the area of Missus Guthrie's residents around the time
• 39:50
  Speaker 6: she went missing. So at another avenue to track vehicles
• 39:53
  Speaker 6: in and out of the area.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Isn't it true? Of course you got to get it
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: through subpoena.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: They won't just hand it over silver platter that for instance,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: serious XM and other infotainments can be traced in that area.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Isn't that true? Just a thought.
• 40:15
  Speaker 6: Serious XM is a satellite music entertainment aspect or subscription.
• 40:23
  Speaker 6: They don't track your locations, but on Star does something
• 40:26
  Speaker 6: like on store when you hit the button asks for help,
• 40:29
  Speaker 6: they can track your location. But the NAP systems in
• 40:33
  Speaker 6: all the vehicles, like if they recover a vehicle from
• 40:36
  Speaker 6: this case, or they think if you remember the range
• 40:39
  Speaker 6: River that they recovered or took from those individuals that
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: they stopped, They're going to pull a NAP system out
• 40:44
  Speaker 6: of that and see if that vehicle was backed in
• 40:47
  Speaker 6: the area of Nancy Grethury's residents at the time she
• 40:50
  Speaker 6: went missing.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I agree and disagree with you, Scott Iiker.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Standard series XM satellite radio only receives signals and cannot
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: track a You're right, However, vehicles with active Serious XM
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: connected vehicle services like Guardian, You Connect, We've Got you
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Connect can be tracked as these use GPS and sell
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: networks to provide location data. To track, you've got to
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: have an active subscription. It's active subscription based telematics. Now
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: explain to everyone in regular people talk what that means.
• 41:33
  Speaker 6: Connective vehicles. That's the term there that makes them that
• 41:36
  Speaker 6: it connects at all. Actually is that if it has
• 41:40
  Speaker 6: a cell phone in it, or if it has a
• 41:42
  Speaker 6: GPS device in it, we can track that vehicle. That's
• 41:46
  Speaker 6: what on Star does when you need help.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, a case that we investigated,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: the Debbie Collier death, her car, the location of her
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: vehicle and ultimately her dead body was found because of
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: our serious XM sell service. They picked up that Wi
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: Fi I guess you would call it trail and they
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: found DeBie Collier. That's one of the ways they found her.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: There's one way versus two way. Their standard satellite radio
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: that's one way received only that does not transmit a
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: car's location. Then you've got the connected services. Now that's
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: possible through series XM Guardian. It's very common in a Chrysler,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: a Dodge.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: A Jeep, a RAM.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: These services use GPS an lt SELL networks, not satellite
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: radio signals themselves. You could maybe get a beat on
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: stolen vehicle assistance if you have an active subscription. Now,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: all of these systems can be disabled, but that doesn't
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: mean it's not worth a try. Guys, Polygraphs new DNA
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: searches now extending into Mexico. Are the FEDS taking over
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: the case from Pima County.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: All that brewing is a search for Nancy. Guthrie goes on.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about this case,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: please dial one eight hundred two two five five three
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: two four, or if you wish to remain anonymous five
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: two zero eight eight two seven four six three. There
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: is a two hundred thousand plus dollar reward. We remember
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: American hero Deputy Sheriff Dan Glaize, Russ County Sheriff's Wisconsin,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: shot and killed in the line of duty, leaving behind
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: a wife now widow, Sarah, and three children without a father.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: American hero Deputy Sheriff Dan Glaze Nancy Grace signing off
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: goodbye friend.