Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / BONUS: OG Guest #2 Gabe Sanders-Boston University

Transcript

BONUS: OG Guest #2 Gabe Sanders-Boston University · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

• 0:00
  Hey, everybody. We're here in the midst of our
• 0:03
  special bonus series from September, October here in 2024.
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  We're just celebrating as we are kind of wrapping up season 5
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  here and are contemplating season six and what we're going
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  to do for you. We just want to really uplift
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  and honor the O GS, the original 10 coaches that took a chance on
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  this crazy idea to sit down for a long format interviews.
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  And so today we're bringing you OG number two.
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  We got Gabe Sanders. He was the head coach of Boston
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  University when we sat down back in 2020.
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  It was really interesting. I remember sitting down with a
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  phone between us and we recorded off that.
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  So obviously our audio is improved, but our guests
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  continue right off the bat. They were awesome and Gabe was
• 0:47
  no exception to that rule. So super excited to have, maybe
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  he had just become the head coach after coaching at Stanford
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  and then came back from Boston University as well.
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  So you're going to enjoy his story.
• 0:58
  His journey captured back in 2020.
• 1:03
  Welcome to the Guild Athletics Connections podcast, where we
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  bring you trek coaches from around the country and connect
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  them to you. I'm your host, Mike Cunningham,
• 1:11
  national sales manager for Guild Athletics.
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  It is my honor to bring you the stories of these men and women
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  and learn with you what makes them tick.
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  This week, I've got a doozy. I was able to sit down with
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  Boston University head coach Gabe Sanders.
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  Now this guy, he gets Boston University.
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  What a great fit. I haven't seen such a great fit
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  between a coach and an institution like this in quite a
• 1:35
  while. I think you'll quite enjoy that.
• 1:38
  And also, Gabe dropped some knowledge on us here.
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  This is a really good one. I think you're going to like it.
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  I certainly had a great time with Gabe and look forward to
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  seeing him again. And so so we're we just jump
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  right into it, man. This is the true coach's dinner,
• 2:03
  right here. You are eating gummy.
• 2:07
  Worms sour gummy room. And a clip bar.
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  And a clip bar. What flavor clip bar are we
• 2:12
  going? This is the crunchy peanut
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  butter. Nice.
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  Crunchy peanut butter, it's all, it's all on the mood.
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  Like sometimes I can go crunchy peanut butter.
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  Sometimes it got to be a little little tangy with like, you
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  know, the carrot cake or something like that.
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  All all of you know how the. Mood hits you how the.
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  Mood hits me. Well, Gabe, thanks for joining
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  me here tonight. Man, this is great.
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  Love being here in Boston. What a great town this this
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  place is. It only took me an hour for
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  traffic from the airport. Over here.
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  So so that was that was a nice treat.
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  Hey, man, let's just get right into it.
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  So you're the head coach at Boston University.
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  You were just at Stanford University as the assistant
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  coach there. For how many years were you?
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  Four years. Four years is a little.
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  Warmer a little bit. West Coast than East Coast, and
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  you used to coach here, So what brought you back?
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  What what's what's this idea of being here at Boston University?
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  Well, there's, there's a lot of reasons and some people have
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  heard this from me before, but I, I think of it as, you know,
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  a, from a micro to macro standpoint as to why I came
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  back. So first and foremost, you know,
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  I was here for seven years. I was here for seven years
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  previous when I was before I went to Stanford University.
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  But the motivating factor wasn't to come back to Boston,
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  someplace that no, I'm accustomed to.
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  And it's just like a good fall back or anything like that.
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  I believe that Boston University is a sleeping giant.
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  I mean that in my heart of hearts, I would not have gone to
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  another job if I didn't feel it was somewhere that I can be
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  successful at the highest level. Because, you know, when I was
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  here for seven years, we were pretty good.
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  And I know there was still a lot left on the table when we were
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  here. Not for lack of effort at all.
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  This is necessarily by us or the staff.
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  But then going to Stanford, it was, you know, a whole nother
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  level being there. And you know, we came within our
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  program, came within a couple points of a Division One
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  national championship in two consecutive years.
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  We were program of the year, indoor outdoor cross country for
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  women's. Another year in a row was for
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  the men. And believe it or not, there are
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  so many similarities between a place like Stanford and place
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  like Boston. And even if you did disregard
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  the weather, disregard the weather, you know, but from a
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  micro standpoint, the track program itself, when I was here
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  years ago and you look at the history of Boston University
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  athletics and track and field, it's a pretty storied history.
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  We had some, you know, at the time, some all time greats in
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  the 80s and 90s in the middle distances.
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  In fact, we've been on the truck on the podium a few times.
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  In our history, right here on your desk is the proof of that.
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  The third place in 19/19/86 for the men, 3rd place as a team
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  that's had no idea. That's impressive.
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  Not a lot of people know that. We've been in the top ten
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  numerous times back then. You know, our our school record
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  board could go up with a lot of Power Five schools like a lot of
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  Power Five schools. That's always a good test is to
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  look at what the school record. Yeah, absolutely.
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  You know, it, It's funny, I believe that I looked, I looked,
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  you know, online, look at results and I think the
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  University of Texas's school relay was set or school record
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  was set in 200 this weekend at like 2052 or something like
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  that. Our record was faster than them
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  up until this weekend. You know, we had a young man at
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  20, I think 2056 or something like that, indoors as recently
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  as 2017. That's interesting for so many
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  reasons, right, Because University of Texas storage,
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  Sprint program, all that kind of good stuff.
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  But then also that it's a Sprint that we're talking about.
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  Like if you just said maybe the mile or something, because, you
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  know, the tradition that's been here at the distance would have
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  made more sense. But the 200, yeah.
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  Wow. Yeah, you can be fast and you
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  anywhere you go, if you're dialed in, you have the
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  resources and the right people involved on both sides and
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  multiple sides. My.
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  Favorite trivia question, And you know this answer, so it's
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  cheating, is who owns the NCAA women's indoor 200 meter record?
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  Because most people would guess someone from LSU or Texas,
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  etcetera. And it's, you know, right here
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  in Boston in town, right? It's Harvard.
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  Yeah, it's that's my favorite trivia question.
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  I love that. That's awesome.
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  So to to keep answering your question, we have there is
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  history there, there is history there and we did some good
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  things as recently as the 20 teens in in recent years.
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  So number one there, there is history behind the track
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  program. There is something there and
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  then beyond that the the resources of the track program
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  and you came in a minute ago and you said I had no idea.
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  I don't think anybody really understands until they get here,
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  even if you see it in pictures. But there's nothing mid major
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  about our resources. We have one of the I'd say top
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  easily top ten indoor facilities in the country And and in my
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  opinion, you know, take it for what it's worth.
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  It is the fastest bank 200 meter track in the country, if not the
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  world. In fact, I I'm just going to say
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  it's the fastest 200 meter bank track in the.
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  World Now, you know, people from A&M are going to hear this in
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  Arkansas, they're going to hear this.
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  Those are bold statements to make.
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  That's fine and that's fine. Like I said, it's my opinion.
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  But if you look at a lot of a lot of our facility records that
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  are pretty fast, they're not necessarily done by people that,
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  you know, you see at the NCAA finals, sure, you know, 2050
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  flat 4517, you know, for the for the 400-3042.
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  Western Kentucky did that by themself last year.
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  I mean, 51 seconds for the 400. Francina did that a few years
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  ago. It would be interesting to see
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  facility records with the NCAA meets taken out.
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  Exactly. That's another big part of it,
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  and also a lot of pro meets taken out.
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  Like, you take out the Tyson meet, you take out the New
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  Balance Grand Prix, you take out a lot of them, yeah.
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  Put fast people together, no matter where they're going,
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  they're going to run fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  That's a That's a great. Yeah.
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  So that's that's so that's. On a micro level that you can't.
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  So and then let's expand it out. I mean, the athletic department
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  has a very storied history in the region.
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  New from a new to England standpoint and from an
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  administrative support standpoint, you know, they want
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  to be really good. They came here and said, Gabe,
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  what is your long term vision? It's not, you know, how can we
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  win the Patriot League, but how can we take it to the next
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  level? Because we were pretty good at
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  the conference level when when you and Robin were here before.
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  But what's the plan? You see, you've experienced the
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  mountaintop. Do you see something like that
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  here? And I said absolutely.
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  And we have the support. I don't think there's a lot of
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  athletic directors in the Power Five or anywhere that knows
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  every single name of every single cross country athlete.
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  Oh yeah, is that right? Yeah, he was at our home cross
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  country meet this year with Abu cross country track and field
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  shirt on, you know, over over his button down.
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  Like they, they are really excited about us.
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  They're really, really excited about us and the staff.
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  So then you expand further. The university itself is one of
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  the Top 40 academic institutions in the US World Report and I and
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  in different along with different reports top 5060
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  academic institutions in the world.
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  So we are in the top 1% of academic prestige.
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  What's what's Boston you've known for academically was
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  engineering architect. Engineering.
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  It's a perennial power in engineering.
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  The Questrom School of Business, School of Management is a
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  perennial both undergraduate and graduate program.
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  Computer science is coming up. We're getting a brand new multi
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  multi multi $1,000,000 debt computer.
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  Data it was 3 multi. Yeah, computer science building,
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  one of the most, one of the most sophisticated of its kind, you
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  know, low pre Med law, the Sergeant School of Health and
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  Rehabilitation, one of the preeminent physical therapy
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  programs in the country. You know, diverse.
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  Yeah, it's a very and it's also a very diverse academic pool,
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  multiple, multiple schools. Education is a big one here.
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  Obviously the the pre Med route there's the humanities as well.
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  Private. School So what's the cost to go
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  to school here? All in.
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  All in 75,000, is that right 75,000?
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  But as of this year, whatever your demonstrated need is
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  through the FASFA and CSS profile will be met.
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  So if you need $60,000, you're going to get $60,000.
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  So they're putting their money where their mouth is.
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  Literally they, they did a very consorted effort through
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  fundraising over the last decade to make this an affordable
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  option for students. You know, they, they went for
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  it. So that's something that is
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  again another advantageous piece when it comes to recruiting
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  between we have athletic scholarships and we have, you
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  know, financial aid packages that were we could be able to
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  offer. So that's an exciting prospect
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  from, you know, having a diverse and high qualitative and
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  quantitative pool. So.
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  Now you mentioned athletic scholarships, I thought, and I'm
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  could be just out of the loop, Patriot League kind of like the
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  Ivy League that didn't have athletic scholarships.
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  The Patriot League, it's school to school.
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  It's not a policy. It's not a policy in the league.
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  We do have it here. We do have it here at Boston.
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  So that's the school at large. Phenomenal academic institution.
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  Then you take it a step further and expand out to the city
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  itself. It's Boston.
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  Absolutely. You say Boston anywhere,
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  anywhere in the world, you know exactly what you're talking
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  about. Great city, you know you want
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  it. Whether it is in New York City,
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  if you're from LA, if you're from Japan, if you're from
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  France, if you're from Belgium, if you're from anywhere
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  Australia, you know Boston. It's an international hub and
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  it's world renowned. So we just went on for 10 plus
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  minutes of all these different reasons that this is a
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  phenomenal opportunity. So BU is a great job, it's a
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  great opportunity. And what we did at Stanford, you
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  know, what we just described about Boston, you could say all
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  those things about Stanford and people.
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  Do you know, between San Francisco?
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  Great. Academics.
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  Support everybody. Everybody knows academic
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  prestige, athletics, scholarships, what have you.
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  Yeah, it's a little warmer out there, but again, it's it's
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  really a mentality thing. And again, having this indoor
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  facility, as I say, it's always 70 in the TT, you know, So with
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  all those factors, I'm like, there's in my mind, I'm like,
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  there's no reason that this place can't get it done.
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  And I was so honored and excited and humbled when I got the call
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  to A, you know, interview and B, when I got the call and say,
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  hey, you're our guy. You're our guy.
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  Did that happen late in the summer or early in the summer?
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  Like how did that transition? No, essentially July.
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  OK, that's good. So.
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  Being like right before school starts, which, yeah, you know,
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  it always amazes me. You know, we'll be at the
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  national meet talking in June and it feels like, you know, we
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  all go home and we blink and the kids are coming back to school
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  already. It's there is no summer,
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  especially when you factor in US champs or trials and things like
• 13:26
  that in there. It's it's unbelievable.
• 13:28
  So that was good timing and you brought was the you have a
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  family of a beautiful wife and a beautiful little little boy.
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  Was that a factor at all, or we're both kind of the same?
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  As far as family, yes and no. So my wife is from the area my
• 13:42
  wife is from, from the Boston area, S towards the Cape.
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  But 100% honest and it's easy for me to say this, but that was
• 13:50
  a bonus. You know, my wife had a very
• 13:52
  good job out in California. She's a nurse practitioner in
• 13:55
  Women's Health. Great job, you know, great
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  situation. And it was a sacrifice for her
• 14:02
  to come come back out here. You know, it wasn't a thing.
• 14:04
  We're all we're dying to get home.
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  And she wants to be home and close to a relative.
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  That was not it. It wasn't all be use open.
• 14:10
  Let me let's get back home. This is a good job.
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  And it was on the very, very, very short list of places.
• 14:16
  I said to myself, you know what? That's a place that I would love
• 14:19
  to take the helm of. Isn't necessarily an obvious
• 14:22
  choice. What's the comparison for like
• 14:26
  cost of living? Because, you know, obviously
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  Palo Alto area is famous. For there.
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  There is no cost of living. It's just you can't.
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  You can't. You can't.
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  Boston ain't exactly. Cheap, it's not cheap either.
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  But I'll tell you what, it's, it's way less threatening than
• 14:39
  it is Silicon Valley. You know, just to give you an
• 14:42
  idea, a quick idea, our neighbor when we first moved there,
• 14:46
  retired to from out in California, out in California
• 14:50
  when we first moved in, she within a few months she retired
• 14:53
  and she just said, Oh, I can't live off of, you know, my
• 14:56
  retirement right now. I just, I can't do it.
• 14:58
  I'm going to have to move with, with my sister back in
• 15:00
  Connecticut, ironically. And so she's like, I put all I
• 15:04
  had in this place years and years and years ago, but we'll
• 15:06
  see what I get. And she said she bought it for
• 15:09
  her place for 330,000. OK, how long has she been there?
• 15:13
  Number of years, I think you know between 10 and 20 years. 10
• 15:18
  and 30 years. Bought it for 3:30, put it on
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  the market for 7:50. Open house on Friday.
• 15:24
  Open house on Saturday. Closed all the paperwork,
• 15:28
  signed, sealed and delivered after 11 blind bids. 30% down at
• 15:33
  880 for a 780 square foot. One bed, 1 bath, one good, one
• 15:42
  garage. 780 foot. One bed.
• 15:45
  One that's no one can see this, so no one can tell.
• 15:48
  That's the size of this office. Holy cow.
• 15:53
  So. That was the market.
• 15:56
  Wow, man, it's legendary yeah, the cost and and whatnot.
• 16:01
  I I assume you guys probably rent it.
• 16:03
  Oh, we rent yeah, we definitely, which is not cheap, but you
• 16:07
  know, to have a down payment on the House and all that out
• 16:09
  there. It's just amazing.
• 16:11
  A down payment out there would be a full house here.
• 16:13
  Yeah, right. Yeah, depending on where you go,
• 16:16
  which, which is fine, but again, it's, it's interesting you asked
• 16:19
  about why I came back here and whatnot.
• 16:21
  And my first month or so, I when I was here, I went out to lunch
• 16:25
  with one of my assistants and he asked me.
• 16:28
  He said, well, do you miss Stanford at all?
• 16:29
  And, and without hesitation, without thinking, I said no.
• 16:34
  And he was like, oh Dang, was it that bad?
• 16:37
  You know, and I then I stopped the thing.
• 16:38
  I'm like, no, I, I loved it, you know, I love the staff, I love
• 16:42
  my job, the kids on the team, the department was amazing, You
• 16:46
  know, the weather was great. But I said, you know what?
• 16:49
  I'm I'm just happy, I'm happy here.
• 16:52
  I'm at the helm of one of the most pre eminent academic
• 16:55
  institutions in the world with an athletic department that has
• 16:58
  my back with great resources. You know, and a bonus is like, I
• 17:02
  do get to see my 2 year old grow up with his grandparents, you
• 17:05
  know, on one side, which is really cool.
• 17:07
  And you know, I get to do it my way, as they say, you know, not
• 17:11
  that not not that there was anything wrong with the way we
• 17:13
  were doing it, or we're going to do it under JJ Clark who would
• 17:17
  come in. But just to have a vision and to
• 17:21
  be able to come in and and have the ability to take the time to
• 17:24
  see it through is so, so enticing and exciting.
• 17:28
  And, you know, we were talking earlier, you know, you're one of
• 17:32
  the guys that I don't know how I know, right?
• 17:34
  I just felt like I've known you for quite a few years now.
• 17:37
  And one of the things that has always stuck out to me about
• 17:42
  knowing you is you're one of the guys that I would say, and
• 17:45
  there's a, there's a good handful of these type of
• 17:47
  coaches, a cerebral type of coach.
• 17:51
  You know, probably how we know each other is actually through
• 17:53
  our mutual friends like Keva and Mark and Ron Griggs and yeah,
• 17:58
  those guys stuff, you know, great, great friends and great
• 18:00
  people. But it was interesting.
• 18:03
  So I've seen you coach at a meet which is different than the
• 18:08
  actual coach. You know, the Monday through
• 18:09
  Friday coaching. You know, I got to observe you
• 18:11
  coach your kids, your sprinters and and hurdlers today for about
• 18:15
  30 minutes. Man, you love coaching.
• 18:19
  It is evidence. Yeah.
• 18:21
  Like, it was so cool to watch your enthusiasm.
• 18:24
  There was a drill you're doing over probably 24 inch not
• 18:30
  hurdles, but you know, mini plastic hurdles I probably
• 18:33
  shouldn't call wicked. Yeah, See when I coach, this is
• 18:36
  my old old man voice coming through here.
• 18:39
  My coach, we can call them wicked.
• 18:40
  Yeah, it one they were struggling a little bit on the
• 18:44
  on the drill that you are working on.
• 18:46
  And then one of them got it and got it really well.
• 18:49
  And I don't know that I've seen that much different between your
• 18:53
  reaction then and when your four by four teams at the school
• 18:56
  record at Stanford. I remember being there for that,
• 18:59
  like you were genuinely excited for the athlete.
• 19:01
  Where does that come from? I love what I do, I love what I
• 19:08
  do and I love being a facilitator.
• 19:10
  And also it comes from a empathetic place of like, this
• 19:16
  is a moment for this person. Interesting.
• 19:19
  OK. There's a moment for this person
• 19:20
  like they got something. And also from a psychological
• 19:24
  standpoint, my like a reaction like that I would hope is now
• 19:31
  burned into their brain. They now associate that positive
• 19:35
  good feeling with that new sensation that they felt on said
• 19:39
  drill or Rep or exercise or effort, as it were.
• 19:43
  So there's a psychological component to it of like, wow,
• 19:46
  that was great. I want more of that, you know,
• 19:48
  that positive feeling like. The dopamine head.
• 19:51
  Of different things, precisely. So there.
• 19:53
  It's 100% Jenna. I'm 100% excited, but I do know
• 19:57
  that there's a psychological and physiological component to it as
• 20:02
  to when I can, I can share that with them on an extra level.
• 20:07
  Then there become, starts to become an association there.
• 20:10
  And you also feel like from the other student athletes that, oh,
• 20:14
  I want that. I want that.
• 20:16
  You know, I, I one thing that I would, I always, sometimes do is
• 20:20
  I didn't do it because I'm like, I don't want to kick because I
• 20:22
  still got to go, but I would find it the nearest cone and I
• 20:25
  would punt it. OK, so after a year or two, the
• 20:28
  goal for an athlete, you know, in the individual goal meetings
• 20:31
  was like, I want to do something that will make coach kick a
• 20:33
  cone. So that was a positive.
• 20:35
  Yeah, normally it's a negative. No, when I keep a cone kick out
• 20:38
  of. Frustration or whatnot.
• 20:40
  So kicking a cone is like, yeah, the tippy top of a practice.
• 20:43
  Like yes. Yeah, give me more of that.
• 20:45
  So their goal, so so when you had individual goal meetings.
• 20:50
  For some kids. Some of their meetings I want to
• 20:52
  do something. Yeah, like make Coach kick a
• 20:54
  cone. Make Sanders kick a cone.
• 20:56
  But it must be working that if that's what their goals are,
• 20:59
  that's that's that's an interesting concept about how to
• 21:02
  accomplish the big picture goals, whether it's running APR
• 21:05
  or scoring in the conference or regionals or making it to
• 21:08
  nationals. A step there is making coach
• 21:12
  kick. If I can make coach kick a cone,
• 21:14
  I am obviously doing the things to help these other number goals
• 21:19
  and play schools and stuff like that.
• 21:20
  Did you see her face afterwards? You know, I was too far away.
• 21:23
  I didn't. It was.
• 21:24
  It was all teeth, Yeah. Like that's awesome.
• 21:26
  Like yeah, it felt good. So where did you?
• 21:30
  Let's take a step back here. Where did you go to school?
• 21:33
  Did you run? I assume you ran track.
• 21:36
  So I was, I went to the University of Michigan and I was
• 21:39
  an attempted long jumper. When I say I was an attempted
• 21:42
  long jumper, I got hurt three straight preseasons.
• 21:45
  Oh no. So my freshman year I was
• 21:48
  dealing with bone spurs in my foot that I didn't know that I
• 21:52
  had until I got them diagnosed at the end of the summer.
• 21:54
  Thought I had tendonitis in my ankle that was misdiagnosed by
• 21:57
  our trainers. So I had ankle surgery that fall
• 22:01
  and that was pretty much it for the year.
• 22:03
  Then sophomore year, the week before Thanksgiving, I had to
• 22:07
  have an emergency appendectomy after thinking I had food
• 22:09
  poisoning for two days. Holy cow.
• 22:12
  That was not fun. That was a fun Thanksgiving and
• 22:18
  so that knocked me out and then my junior year I made it to the
• 22:22
  December intersquad meet and. That's a big goal, right?
• 22:25
  There and I, my third or fourth attempt I boom, got a second
• 22:30
  degree tear in my hamstring and pull tear, what have you, and
• 22:34
  I'm laying in the sand. All I want to do is let out an F
• 22:36
  bomb and I take a deep breath and just go.
• 22:39
  That's it, that's it. Like 3 strikes.
• 22:42
  I was like my, but somebody's time I looked.
• 22:43
  Up. Yeah, that's right.
• 22:45
  I looked up the sky and I was like, someone's telling me, bro,
• 22:48
  this ain't. Yeah, someone's like I thought
• 22:51
  they would do it for. You take a hint.
• 22:55
  But it was one of those things where I love track and field.
• 22:59
  Like for better or for worse, that was part of my identity.
• 23:01
  You know, you talk about the psychology of, of athletics and
• 23:04
  whatnot, identity and whatnot, that being a track and field
• 23:08
  person or associated with it was a part of my and I couldn't
• 23:11
  imagine walking away from it. But I loved track.
• 23:14
  I love the team, I love the coaches, I love the atmosphere.
• 23:18
  So I said I want to do this, but I can't do it as an athlete.
• 23:21
  Clearly I couldn't do it before. I can't do it anymore moving
• 23:24
  forward. So I I went to them and said,
• 23:26
  look, my body can't do this. Take me off their roster, give
• 23:30
  it to another walk on. And like, you know, I want to
• 23:32
  help out as best I can, make me a manager, make me a water.
• 23:35
  But I, I don't care. Whatever you want me to
• 23:36
  contribute, let me. I'm happy to keep doing this,
• 23:39
  you know? What?
• 23:40
  What was your major? I was a sport management and
• 23:43
  communications major SMC. So did you think you wanted?
• 23:46
  To go into coaching or were you just think you want to do
• 23:48
  something in sports? So that's a.
• 23:49
  That's a funny segue. So I knew I wanted to be in
• 23:53
  sports. I wasn't exactly sure what I
• 23:55
  wanted if I started out as a physical education major.
• 23:57
  My father was a physical education, Health Science
• 23:59
  teachers following his footsteps.
• 24:02
  But I want to do something in business.
• 24:04
  I found that I had affinity to that for administrative stuff,
• 24:07
  so I switched over to that. But I wasn't.
• 24:10
  I was never exactly sure. I thought at one point, do I
• 24:13
  want to go into marketing? Do I want to go into sport law
• 24:16
  and become an agent? Do I want to?
• 24:18
  I wasn't, I didn't know. But what it did know because I
• 24:20
  love track and I love being a part of it, being part of the
• 24:23
  Michigan track team. And so I became a manager.
• 24:27
  But over time I start. At the time it was a separate
• 24:33
  program, so only three coaches and the division was cross
• 24:36
  country, distance and Ron Warhurst, sprints, hurdles and
• 24:39
  Fred Laplante and then all of field events with Ricky Dulick
• 24:43
  name. OK, yeah.
• 24:45
  So he's retired from coaching long since.
• 24:47
  But awesome guy, Uncle Ricky. Uncle Ricky, my man.
• 24:51
  And but imagine like I'm sure any coach listening at the
• 24:55
  collegiate level was like coaching all the field events.
• 24:59
  All the field. Events, so I end up getting
• 25:02
  assigned groups to supervise. And I assume the jumps.
• 25:05
  Yep. The jumps and otherwise, yeah.
• 25:08
  But even if they were doing a circuit and there weren't many
• 25:11
  throwers or maybe one or two at the time, and then this coaching
• 25:16
  staff kind of had a a piff, you know, like, OK, kind of has an
• 25:20
  affinity for this like thing. And something I didn't even
• 25:23
  realize for those three years leading up to that moment, I was
• 25:27
  doing more studying about track and field training theory, bio,
• 25:29
  mechanics, Physiology, trying to make myself a better athlete,
• 25:33
  not realizing I was starting my coaching pedigree.
• 25:37
  So even though I was, because I started out as a physical Ed
• 25:39
  major and then sports, sports business, what have you, but I
• 25:42
  was studying all this kinesiology.
• 25:43
  I was in the school of kinesiology.
• 25:45
  So I had, and it got to the point where like, you know what,
• 25:48
  Gabe kind of has a knack for this.
• 25:50
  So my senior year, they actually made me an undergraduate
• 25:53
  assistant student coach and administrative assistant.
• 25:57
  So a higher title. And then I end up having three
• 25:59
  managers that answered to me or worked under me.
• 26:02
  Pretty neat. Yeah, I was in AI, was an
• 26:07
  associate manager of the indoor Big 10 Championships, working
• 26:09
  under Fred Laplante, who directed at the time, you know,
• 26:13
  taking on a lot of responsibility.
• 26:14
  And it really wasn't until like late in the fall that I had an
• 26:20
  epiphany that this is it. And that was under also David
• 26:24
  Kaiser came. David Kaiser came in my 4th
• 26:27
  year. Dave Kaiser, Dave.
• 26:29
  He's, I mean, he was. I'll get to it shortly, but you
• 26:35
  know, I helped out Dave quite a bit and there was one weekend
• 26:38
  in, I don't know, maybe October where Dave was gone for the
• 26:42
  weekend because he was with the cross country team.
• 26:44
  Time to get to know them more, which is great.
• 26:46
  So he gave me a workout to give to the all the field event
• 26:49
  athletes, the jumpers primarily, and I took them through the
• 26:52
  workout, you know, and I'm coaching guys that I was like in
• 26:55
  the same recruiting class and stuff like that, you know.
• 26:58
  And I sent them down to the weight room afterwards and then
• 27:01
  the sprinters came in because Coach Laplante was, I believe,
• 27:04
  away of recruiting that weekend or something along those lines.
• 27:07
  So I worked with them and then sent them down the weight room.
• 27:10
  I went into the weight room and help the strength staff, help
• 27:12
  supervise. I was in there until the last
• 27:15
  guy I think might have been Nathan Taylor, Canadian sprinter
• 27:19
  at the time. And as I'm walking out, for
• 27:23
  whatever reason, I drove to the facility that day.
• 27:26
  Maybe I was on campus or doing some errands around town.
• 27:28
  But I'll never forget this moment that walking up to my
• 27:32
  car, I stop and I see my reflection in the glare of the
• 27:36
  glass and I just stop. And I laugh at myself because I
• 27:40
  realized when I saw myself I had this huge grin on my face,
• 27:45
  didn't even realize it. And it just, I just laughed and
• 27:48
  it hit me. I'm like this is it.
• 27:51
  This is what I want to do. So you can pinpoint that day,
• 27:53
  that day, that moment. I'm a coach.
• 27:55
  I'm a coach. I want to be a collegiate track
• 27:58
  and field coach. I 100% see myself doing this
• 28:01
  forever. Yeah, and I'm one of the few
• 28:05
  lucky people that had that moment.
• 28:07
  Yeah. You know, and yeah, some people
• 28:10
  luck into it. Some people think they want to
• 28:12
  do it and then get into it and realize they don't.
• 28:14
  Yeah, yeah. And, and so I, I saw Dave Kaiser
• 28:18
  that following Monday told him what happened.
• 28:21
  You know, Dave, you know, if you, anyone knows Dave, he's
• 28:24
  not, he doesn't blink. You know, he just was at his
• 28:27
  desk. He's like, so you want to do
• 28:29
  this? I said absolutely, like, you
• 28:30
  sure you want to do this? And I said at 100%, Dave, he
• 28:34
  said, huh, you must not be a fan of money.
• 28:40
  But. OK, you're in it.
• 28:42
  Hey. He could be in this office right
• 28:43
  now. He'd still have that same
• 28:44
  conversation, you see? You would still want to do this.
• 28:46
  You're still not a fan, you know.
• 28:48
  Shout out to Dave Kaiser. Baby, hey, that that does.
• 28:52
  You know, I, I've meet no coaches around the country.
• 28:56
  It is amazing. There are coaches out there and
• 28:59
  you are one of these guys, Gabe. You could do anything.
• 29:04
  I mean, there's a lot of other things you could be doing that
• 29:06
  could be making more money and and having just as much effect
• 29:10
  on the world and its population, things like that.
• 29:13
  Just it really goes to words who you are as a person as as a
• 29:16
  character. Not that you're stepping down to
• 29:19
  be a coach. I mean, I think college track
• 29:21
  coaches, you know, do some of the most selfless stuff that
• 29:24
  I've I've ever seen. So.
• 29:26
  So did you change your major or is that what you ended?
• 29:28
  Up that's what I ended up doing. That's what I ended up doing.
• 29:30
  And that's also where I actually got into coaching education
• 29:33
  because I asked Dave, I said, you know, any other what classes
• 29:37
  should I be taking and can you decide what have you said?
• 29:38
  Well, well, if you want to be a coach, here's the first thing
• 29:42
  you need to formally do, he said.
• 29:43
  Get into USATF coaching coaches Ed.
• 29:46
  Yeah. Oh yeah.
• 29:47
  Coaches Ed because he was in there in the early days, early
• 29:50
  days in the early 90s, he did his level 1-2 and eventually
• 29:54
  three. He said coaches Ed is critical.
• 29:56
  He got and that so I did my first level one in the Oh dear
• 30:05
  in 2003 or 4. OK with Carl Geisler.
• 30:10
  Oh yeah. Yeah.
• 30:12
  You. Chicago.
• 30:13
  Chicago. Yeah.
• 30:14
  So with Carl, and he was. So O3O4-O.
• 30:17
  Three O 4. OK.
• 30:18
  So I was, I was at Mississippi State probably at that time.
• 30:22
  Yeah, so and that's what and honestly, that's when I fell on
• 30:25
  with Coaches Ed. Yeah, it's like, this is
• 30:26
  awesome. Love Coaches Ed.
• 30:28
  And so that was a big start. A big, big moment in my journey
• 30:33
  was my first formal Coaches Ed falling in love with that and
• 30:36
  having that great experience. And then David got me in touch
• 30:39
  with Ralph White, who was at Williams College at that time,
• 30:42
  and that's where I got my first professional job at Williams
• 30:44
  College. OK, No, I don't know much about
• 30:46
  Williams College. Where's that?
• 30:47
  Williams College is in Western Massachusetts, Division Three
• 30:50
  school in the NEZCAT conference. Yeah, OK.
• 30:53
  And it is the most prestigious liberal arts school in the
• 30:56
  country #1 rated liberal arts school in the country.
• 30:59
  Like, we're talking Ivy League status.
• 31:01
  Half the time you're competing with Ivy's, you're competing
• 31:04
  with either Harvard, Princeton, or Yale for students just in
• 31:06
  general, you know, if you want a Harvard education but you don't
• 31:11
  like the city, you go to Williams.
• 31:13
  Got it. OK.
• 31:14
  That's basically the best way I can describe.
• 31:15
  It and that's in here in Michigan.
• 31:18
  So. You you went to University of
• 31:20
  Michigan? Are you from Michigan?
• 31:21
  Is that where high school? OK, born, raised, went to
• 31:22
  Pioneer across the street. Oh, Pioneer, Who's the hurdles
• 31:27
  coach there for a long time? I think he passed away in the
• 31:30
  last OH. Brian West.
• 31:31
  Yeah, absolutely. Brian.
• 31:33
  WI had an athlete. Well, I recruited her and didn't
• 31:35
  get her, but now we're good friends.
• 31:36
  Andrea Mosher. Yeah.
• 31:38
  Moshe. Moshe.
• 31:39
  Yeah. Pioneer man put out some great
• 31:42
  athletes. Good Lord.
• 31:45
  So born and raised in Michigan and College in Michigan, and
• 31:48
  then all of a sudden your first job, you're out in New England.
• 31:52
  I was totally different than Midwest Michigan, Big 10
• 31:55
  country. You're out here now.
• 31:57
  I was very familiar with New England, though, because I have
• 31:59
  family in Newport, so I I, I've been used to the Northeast.
• 32:03
  Who? Visited.
• 32:04
  Visited what have you. We had family friends in a
• 32:06
  neighboring town, so that helped.
• 32:09
  But another good thing was we were really good.
• 32:12
  We were one of the best programs in division.
• 32:14
  Three. Yeah.
• 32:14
  Is that right? My my second year, we actually
• 32:16
  won a Division Three national title.
• 32:18
  Oh, wow. Indoors, yeah, kind of
• 32:20
  unexpected. Was one of those things where
• 32:21
  everyone just kind of showed up and did their job and we had a
• 32:24
  hell of a meet. Man, I did not know you have
• 32:27
  been on a national champion staff.
• 32:29
  Yeah. I mean, that's a rare air.
• 32:32
  Not many people. Everybody attains to it.
• 32:34
  I think not many people actually can do it's it's it's one year,
• 32:38
  2A year, indoor and outdoor, right.
• 32:39
  That's awesome. Yeah.
• 32:40
  So I mean, that kind of is where it started.
• 32:44
  I I'm accustomed to being a part of high performing environments.
• 32:47
  Yeah. You know, my entire professional
• 32:49
  career, I mean, Ralph White ran it like a, a power 5D1.
• 32:53
  That was his goals. He coached at SMU, he coached at
• 32:56
  George Mason, he coached at Clemson.
• 32:58
  You know, he brought a different mentality there, probably a
• 33:01
  little more than, you know, Division Three Williams was used
• 33:04
  to to. Be quite frank, but.
• 33:06
  You know, and another academic institution at an academic
• 33:10
  institution of all places. I mean, at the time we had a 200
• 33:13
  foot discus thrower. He was the number one ranked guy
• 33:15
  in all divisions. Dan Austin.
• 33:16
  Oh my God, you know, I mean, we had some good wow, good teams
• 33:20
  and good kids. And you know, that's, I really
• 33:24
  enjoyed that. And then after my second year, I
• 33:27
  got the call to go to Colgate University.
• 33:30
  And you know, they at the time they weren't very good, but it
• 33:32
  was a Division One program. So in my mind, I said, let's get
• 33:35
  back into Division One, let's see what we can do.
• 33:37
  And in my interview, I met some some of the guys on the team and
• 33:40
  I was like, there's something here, there's something to this.
• 33:44
  And, and Fast forward, we did some pretty special things that
• 33:47
  year that they were seventh out of 8th place for three years
• 33:50
  running. And it was always a question of
• 33:52
  how close are they going to be the last place, you know, and,
• 33:55
  and our over the top goal was can we get in the top half of
• 33:58
  the league? How can we get 4th?
• 34:00
  And in fact, you know, everyone's familiar with my
• 34:04
  shiny head, but I had some like some like WAVY curls back for
• 34:09
  granted, I was, I was thinning, but I was holding on to what I
• 34:11
  had. You were heading this.
• 34:13
  Way I was heading this way anyway.
• 34:15
  I probably should have gone earlier, but I arrived on campus
• 34:18
  there and halfway through the fall I'm like, we could do some
• 34:20
  special things. So I said to the guys, I was
• 34:23
  like, I'll tell you all, what if if we have, if we get in the top
• 34:28
  half, 4th place, I will shave my head.
• 34:32
  And as the season went on, they're like, coach, get the
• 34:34
  Clippers ready. And then I'm like, is that you
• 34:36
  got to earn it? You got to earn it.
• 34:38
  We get to the indoor conference meet and we had a great first
• 34:42
  day, qualified a bunch of people for finals, had a lot of people
• 34:44
  in the top sections of finals. Important day.
• 34:46
  We won the DMR the night before, like had a great, great momentum
• 34:52
  and we had one more team meeting that night.
• 34:57
  And afterwards I thought to myself, I've given these guys
• 35:00
  every get one for the Gipper speech I can get, you know, and
• 35:04
  I know there's only, there's only a certain age demographic
• 35:07
  that's going to get that record. Sure.
• 35:09
  Yeah. Exactly.
• 35:10
  But I've given them every speech I can give them to to hide.
• 35:13
  What else can I do? And I thought, ultimate show of
• 35:16
  face. So I went to the store, bought
• 35:18
  some Clippers, bought her some razor blades.
• 35:20
  And there was a kid on the team that dicked his head.
• 35:23
  He was a captain. So I called up him and I called
• 35:25
  up the team. Barber, another senior to my
• 35:28
  room and they're like, coach, what's up?
• 35:30
  And then I go to the bathroom and like, and I pull out the
• 35:32
  clip and said let's go. They're like, let's go, let's go
• 35:35
  before the final day. Wow, you were showing so much
• 35:40
  trust and holy cow. And you know, Fast forward, you
• 35:44
  know the guts. So Fast forward the next day, I
• 35:47
  wore a ski cap into the meat. We brought the guys together for
• 35:50
  one last team meeting at Bucknell.
• 35:52
  And at Bucknell your team area is a squash court so it's
• 35:55
  isolated. So we did that.
• 35:57
  We did a mental imagery exercise that we had been doing, you
• 36:00
  know, close your eyes for a couple minutes, imagine your
• 36:02
  perfect day, open your eyes. Couple people share what they
• 36:04
  saw. And I say y'all like we in order
• 36:08
  to do something, you have to believe that you can do it.
• 36:10
  Like honestly. And what is believing seeing,
• 36:13
  right? Seeing is believing.
• 36:14
  That's why we do these exercises.
• 36:15
  If you can see it, you believe it, you can do it.
• 36:18
  And I said I've been doing this like eight times a day, seven
• 36:22
  days a week for however long I said I've been.
• 36:25
  I've been seeing it so much, guys.
• 36:26
  I believe in it so much that I acted on it and I ripped off my
• 36:30
  ski cap. They went.
• 36:31
  Nuts. And there was a moment of signs
• 36:33
  and they just went berserk. Dude.
• 36:35
  They're like, let's go. Yeah.
• 36:36
  They're like jumping on my head, rubbing my head, probably got a
• 36:38
  concussion. Like it was wild.
• 36:40
  And then some of the coaches outside were like, what did you
• 36:43
  say to them to get them all riled up?
• 36:45
  And then Fast forward, by the end of the meet, we had nearly a
• 36:48
  dozen guys score after returning one guy.
• 36:52
  We the year before, we scored six points off of one guy.
• 36:55
  We've had 54 1/2. We meddled in all three relays,
• 36:59
  including winning the DMR. We had the athlete of the meet
• 37:02
  and the coach, Art McKinnon, who is my friend, mentor and like a
• 37:08
  surrogate uncle to me, like an amazing man.
• 37:11
  He said that was the greatest year in Colgate history.
• 37:13
  That's. Undoubtedly, like we made a
• 37:17
  difference in the meet. That was our goal, be present in
• 37:19
  the meet. And a lot of coaches from
• 37:21
  different schools came up to and said you guys had one hell of a
• 37:23
  meet. It was our Super Bowl, 4th place
• 37:26
  was our, and to me that's one of the greatest team achievements
• 37:28
  I've ever been a part of. The 4th.
• 37:29
  Place to remember. That they do for the rest of
• 37:32
  their life. Yeah, exactly.
• 37:33
  I take, I take. So I honest to God, I felt just
• 37:37
  as much pride in that 4th place as I did the 3rd place trophy at
• 37:40
  Stanford. Yeah, because of what went into
• 37:43
  it. Right.
• 37:44
  Because it doesn't matter the the level that you're at, if you
• 37:47
  put your heart and soul into something to achieve a result
• 37:52
  that you've earned that result, that's means something to you.
• 37:55
  It doesn't matter if you're going for a Patriot League
• 37:57
  championship, a national championship.
• 38:00
  And some people disagree with me because they believe in
• 38:02
  absolutes, but I believe relatively speaking, it doesn't
• 38:05
  matter what your goal is. The effort and intent must be
• 38:09
  the same. We're talking about absolutes.
• 38:11
  Then every 100m runner is trash because you're not setting Usain
• 38:14
  Bolt Trucker. Yeah, I can't remember who.
• 38:16
  Just talking to a kid tried to put himself down.
• 38:19
  He was talking about his vaulting career.
• 38:22
  And he was like, yeah, you know, it's good for my little cop.
• 38:25
  And I was like, wait a minute, you, you have no choice over
• 38:27
  what your conference does or does not do.
• 38:30
  You have a choice whether you win that conference or not.
• 38:32
  And he was trying to downplay his own.
• 38:34
  He was the conference champ in the football, and he was trying
• 38:36
  to downplay. And I was like, no, dude, that's
• 38:39
  the goal in front of you. You did it.
• 38:40
  And and that was, that's been the goal everywhere.
• 38:42
  I I've been is can't is become competitive at the level that
• 38:46
  you're at and then see where then see where you can take it
• 38:49
  absolutely, because if you can't do that you.
• 38:51
  How can you work on attaining the next regionals and nationals
• 38:55
  and USA and you know, national champs, etcetera.
• 38:57
  So you're, you're bald now, so you're out of tricks.
• 38:59
  Out of tricks. I can just play with the face.
• 39:02
  That's all I got that that doesn't seem like it has the
• 39:04
  same. Like, I'll shave this off.
• 39:05
  That doesn't. I mean, I wish I did it sooner,
• 39:07
  yeah. But yeah, and then I got the
• 39:10
  call to come here. So what's it like?
• 39:12
  This is your. First head coaching job, First
• 39:13
  head coach. So what's it like putting?
• 39:14
  Together a staff. And and I definitely desperately
• 39:17
  would love to talk to you about a friend that we both have in
• 39:19
  common, Mr. Jared Rome. Obviously you had you know, our
• 39:24
  whole country had a set back, coaches had a set back.
• 39:26
  Because if if anybody had met that man warned when you got.
• 39:30
  Absolutely. You know, it's always coming
• 39:34
  with a vision, but always can make sure that that vision is is
• 39:38
  drawn and written in pencil. Interesting.
• 39:41
  Explain that a little bit more. So you got to have a game plan.
• 39:44
  It's have a 306090 day plan, you know, have a 1510 year plan and
• 39:48
  a vision, But there are going to be things that get in the way.
• 39:54
  And one in particular, well, there's always one thing that
• 39:57
  gets in the way of those plans and that's called life.
• 40:00
  That's called life circumstance, context, nuance, everything and
• 40:04
  be able to bend and be able to not have a rigid view of the
• 40:09
  landscape and what it is and be be able to kind of grow with it.
• 40:13
  And I think that's something that helped me at first is
• 40:15
  knowing, dude, this isn't going to be a long term project, you
• 40:20
  know, and. The most important thing off the
• 40:23
  bat is the experience of the student athlete, not the results
• 40:27
  at the conference or the PRS or anything.
• 40:29
  I think those will take care of themselves.
• 40:32
  But a big piece for me is establishing, you know, what our
• 40:37
  new standard is and how we're going to do that and bringing in
• 40:41
  a coaching staff that can buy in, that can see the vision,
• 40:45
  that are attracted to the vision and want to see it through with
• 40:48
  you, right, can implement it for you.
• 40:49
  Can and can implement it for? You in their own way and I come
• 40:53
  from a school of thought of, you know, find and hire good people
• 40:57
  that are excited and proud of what they do and let them work.
• 41:00
  Let them do their job. Let them do your job and give
• 41:03
  them the parameters. Give them what the end, the end
• 41:07
  you would like them to what the end is, you know, give them kind
• 41:11
  of the, the, the growth mindset direction you'd like to go in
• 41:15
  and, and let them let them do it.
• 41:18
  You know, and I, I, I'm very proud of the job I've done in
• 41:21
  hiring. Yeah.
• 41:23
  I think I honest to God think coaching talent wise and, and
• 41:27
  just people, I have one of the best Staffs in the country
• 41:30
  without a doubt in my mind. Yeah, I think the Fleagles are
• 41:33
  phenomenal coaches. We're already seeing great
• 41:35
  results off the bat. I think Kristen Fleagle is going
• 41:38
  to be a household name within the next 5 years.
• 41:40
  And So what does she coach here? So she coaches the jumps, she
• 41:43
  coaches the horizontals and the high jump in the Maltese.
• 41:47
  OK Steven coaches the pole vaulters.
• 41:49
  We've already had immediate success.
• 41:51
  Yeah, as excited you were. In your group today he out.
• 41:55
  Oh yeah, excited just by 10 man. Oh, you're telling me?
• 41:59
  You're telling me and where'd they come from?
• 42:01
  They came from Luther College. They were both coaching their
• 42:04
  husband and wife. They were there for a year, but
• 42:06
  kind of they really got their chops in at.
• 42:09
  Kristen was at Wisconsin Stevens Point Division Three and had a
• 42:13
  phenomenal career there as well as Benedictine.
• 42:17
  She coached 3 national champions herself individually, different
• 42:21
  ones. She's coached nearly 25 in first
• 42:28
  team All Americans at Division Three.
• 42:30
  In one given year at Division Three, she had four jumpers over
• 42:34
  7 meters, which at the Division Three level like that doesn't
• 42:37
  happen, that she didn't inherit those guys.
• 42:41
  At Benedictine, I believe she had one young man that was a
• 42:45
  750155219 jumper and was national athlete of the meet.
• 42:53
  I hope so, yeah. Holy, she's good.
• 42:56
  At what she did, unbelievably. Competitive environment in the
• 42:58
  Wisconsin D3 system and. She did this over years.
• 43:03
  It wasn't like she had like a flash in the pan.
• 43:05
  So you have to look at her body of work.
• 43:07
  Same with Steven, multiple All Americans individual champion in
• 43:11
  the high jump or not high, excuse me, but in the pole vault
• 43:13
  at U Chicago. Well, he was at U Chicago for
• 43:16
  six years. So that's another thing.
• 43:18
  He was recruiting at U Chicago for a number of years.
• 43:23
  You know they both have bring. Phenomenal positive energy.
• 43:27
  I think, you know, with their enthusiasm, you know, their
• 43:32
  tenacity, and they're just like, you know, warm hearts.
• 43:35
  We're going to be really good with them.
• 43:36
  They fit in perfectly here. Paul Spangler has done a good
• 43:40
  job in recent years getting the distance program restarted,
• 43:44
  culminating in a women's cross country league title.
• 43:47
  Yeah, saw that. Congrats.
• 43:49
  That's awesome. Yeah, you know the men.
• 43:51
  Are are just on the cusp, You know, we're probably a
• 43:53
  recruiting class away or so Paul, I do know.
• 43:56
  How I know him? We were in level one together
• 44:00
  way back in the day at. In South.
• 44:03
  Carolina, because he he was at Florida State and I grew up a
• 44:07
  huge Florida State fan. So it was like, OK, and then he
• 44:09
  went to Alabama. Yeah.
• 44:10
  Yeah. Good, good guy or no, He went to
• 44:12
  Alabama. He was coaching at Florida
• 44:14
  State. That's what he was saying, yeah.
• 44:15
  He's done a great job taking over Bruce Lehane, which is an
• 44:18
  impossible task just between coaching and and meat
• 44:22
  management, you know, putting together world class races, you
• 44:25
  know, the people that we've been become known for.
• 44:28
  And then Grant Cartwright replacing Jared Rome.
• 44:30
  Bless his heart, Grant Cartwright is the best young
• 44:33
  coaching prospect in the country.
• 44:34
  Yeah. Just finished his career.
• 44:36
  At Michigan, a fellow Wolverine. Fellow Wolverine.
• 44:39
  Happy stance. But he's been a student of the
• 44:43
  game for years. Well, look who his coach was
• 44:46
  exactly. One of the.
• 44:48
  Most. Phenomenal teachers out there.
• 44:50
  Jerry called me about him. OK.
• 44:52
  And he said, Gabe, I've got a young man, you probably heard
• 44:55
  his name, Grant Cartwright. He's been at the national level
• 44:58
  7 time, all American, but he's like he's been a volunteer
• 45:01
  assistant me for a year. But he told me Gabe that he
• 45:06
  wants to coach and if he got an opportunity, the right
• 45:09
  opportunity, he would be done. He would hang up his shot
• 45:11
  instantly. And he said, Gabe, I have 4
• 45:16
  coaches that are actually coaching in the NCAA right now
• 45:18
  that are former athletes that are doing at a pretty high
• 45:21
  level. He named him.
• 45:22
  Yeah, big time. Absolutely.
• 45:23
  He has a great tree, great tree. And he said Gabe.
• 45:26
  This young man has just as good, if not a better coaching
• 45:29
  pedigree than that so, and he's a guy that.
• 45:33
  He's a he doesn't be, he's not going to be us.
• 45:35
  You know, and I'm like, all right, they called Grant, had a
• 45:39
  great informal phone conversation interview, and he
• 45:42
  was great. He and most importantly, he was
• 45:45
  very humble and he was very forthright with what he felt his
• 45:48
  shortcomings were, you know, and I think that was really
• 45:51
  important. And he can't be 20. 23 three,
• 45:54
  yeah, OK. 20. Three, he was really wise and
• 45:57
  mature. Beyond his years.
• 45:58
  So that's self. Awareness at that age, yes, and
• 46:00
  then you. Know he's like he even said, you
• 46:02
  know, the jabs probably like my short event right now and I'm
• 46:06
  actively working on that. But and I made sure I'm like,
• 46:10
  well, you get a coach how you were coach.
• 46:11
  He's like, no, he's like, I get my hands on every piece of
• 46:14
  coaching material I can get my hands on.
• 46:17
  I don't get all the different schools of thought looking at,
• 46:19
  you know, the this style, that style John Smith well and all
• 46:23
  these different people. You know, I'm not married to one
• 46:26
  system necessarily, depending on the thrower brought him in for
• 46:31
  his formal interview and he knocked out of the park and and
• 46:35
  maybe I had a a low bar because he was so young, But even if the
• 46:39
  bar was higher, he was great. And and even that that coaching
• 46:44
  search for that throws position, I honestly believe was again,
• 46:47
  coaching talent was the best coaching search in the country.
• 46:51
  I had some really good coaches in for that.
• 46:53
  Not at the Division One level, but at the division two, the
• 46:56
  Division Three. Like the hidden gems Like you
• 46:58
  really. Got to do your homework on but.
• 47:00
  These guys are good. The thing that's really set
• 47:03
  Grant apart was, you know, the vision that we may have touched
• 47:07
  on, but I believe that Boston University can be and will be
• 47:12
  one of the most preeminent athletic academic programs in
• 47:15
  the NCAA, 100%. I believe if you're talking
• 47:18
  mid-May, I think we can and will be in the Houston of the
• 47:21
  Northeast. Wow.
• 47:22
  Or like the Boise State of yeah yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 47:25
  Gonzaga basketball I. I think we could do that here.
• 47:28
  I truly believe that. And what's that Grant apart was
• 47:32
  it's not a vision I have to sell to him.
• 47:34
  He's been a part of it. He's been a part of one of the
• 47:36
  most elite throws programs in the country.
• 47:39
  He's been runner up in the weight throw at the National
• 47:41
  League, the seven time first team All American.
• 47:44
  There's no vision. He's been a part of it.
• 47:46
  So he intimately knows what the goal is.
• 47:50
  He's been a part of it, been a part of a Big 10 championship
• 47:53
  team, Power 5 championship. So he he gets it and he's had at
• 47:57
  least half a dozen moments an exchange that we've had that I'm
• 48:01
  like, this was the right hire. Yeah, what's great for that?
• 48:04
  Reaffirmation. There's so much affirmation.
• 48:06
  Left, right. And from my whole staff, right?
• 48:08
  So I'm so confident, so excited about what's going to come for
• 48:12
  us in the years. And it's going to be a slow
• 48:14
  build, but we're hustling. We're hustling and we're doing a
• 48:18
  great job working with the kids that we have.
• 48:20
  And there is a lot of talent on this team, both, you know,
• 48:23
  physical talent and just mental talent.
• 48:25
  And also the yearning for that next step, that next direction,
• 48:28
  bringing a championship mentality and having an
• 48:30
  understanding that every single person from top to bottom can
• 48:35
  contribute to a championship program.
• 48:37
  Because I had to clarify this. I said, you know, raise your
• 48:41
  hand if you don't exactly know how you contribute to a
• 48:43
  championship program. Because I can imagine you
• 48:45
  saying, oh, he's saying we got to win a championship, but I'm
• 48:47
  not even ranked in the top 20 or I haven't done this.
• 48:50
  I haven't done this. My mark, my PR is this.
• 48:52
  I said you contribute to this program through your effort, OK,
• 48:57
  full stop, because your effort is contagious and that can help
• 49:03
  one. 100% person who's. 9th right now.
• 49:05
  Get to 8th. Get to give them a point.
• 49:07
  Things like let's say God forbid.
• 49:09
  You're in a boot and you're on the Air Assault bike and you are
• 49:11
  busting your butt. Your teammates see that and they
• 49:14
  appreciate that. I mean, and let's say you're
• 49:18
  100% healthy, but you're half assed and through your drills or
• 49:21
  you, they see that, you know, you're out on a Saturday night
• 49:25
  and they know about it or whatever.
• 49:26
  You're like, they see that. So your effort helps or hurts
• 49:30
  this team. So every single person on this
• 49:33
  team matters. If you're on this roster, you
• 49:35
  matter. And it's very important for
• 49:38
  anybody, not just young people, to know that they matter
• 49:42
  somewhere, that they're important, that they are a
• 49:44
  contributor, they bring value, they are valued, right.
• 49:49
  And something that Jeremy Gunn at Stanford, 33 consecutive year
• 49:54
  national champion in soccer, the phrase I like keep coming back
• 49:58
  to with him. You see, he said there's
• 49:59
  something to be said for being a part of a high performing
• 50:03
  environment. OK, period.
• 50:07
  And that that is translatable everywhere and everything that
• 50:11
  you do. And that's what we're bringing
• 50:12
  here. You know, let's be high
• 50:13
  performers and everything that we let's be excellent.
• 50:16
  So it's BU I like that. So something you said a little
• 50:21
  bit ago that kind of struck me was about having a plan but
• 50:27
  making sure it's in pencil. So obviously building a staff
• 50:32
  was important to you, the right people in the right places and
• 50:35
  things like that. And I'll assume you thought you
• 50:38
  had that right person and you did with Jared.
• 50:41
  So Speaking of writing in pencil, yeah, you know, he
• 50:44
  passes away this fall. That was not in the plan, of
• 50:47
  course. How how did that affect the
• 50:50
  program? It was, it was really tough.
• 50:53
  In many different regards, obviously emotionally it was
• 50:56
  impossible, you know, and, and to be quite honest, I had only
• 51:00
  personally known Jared for about 5 weeks and I actively leaned
• 51:04
  into that fact even though I knew when I met this guy, I'm
• 51:07
  like, we're going to be best friends like, and he, I found it
• 51:10
  out like he said the same thing about me.
• 51:11
  He's like, I love Gabe. I like, he's a cool guy.
• 51:15
  I love what he's, you know, what he's selling and what have you.
• 51:18
  But I, I emotionally tried to remove myself so I could be more
• 51:22
  available in my position for everyone else, for the kids on
• 51:25
  the team, for the staff, for the department, for the community.
• 51:28
  And if it was five months after, I would have been in consult
• 51:32
  five years, forget about it, you know, But you know, we powered
• 51:38
  through and again, we were short staffed.
• 51:41
  We only have 4 full time coaches and now we're down to three with
• 51:44
  a couple volunteers. And you know, people had to pick
• 51:48
  up their weight in in other areas, you know, and pick up
• 51:52
  other people's weight. But it just doubled down on how
• 51:54
  good a staff I have. We leaned on each other, we
• 51:56
  relied on each other. You know, we held it together
• 52:01
  for the kids and the kids were able to power through it, not
• 52:03
  power through it. But you know, navigate their
• 52:07
  ways through it. We did a great there was it was
• 52:10
  great to have the mental health and mental health support that
• 52:15
  we had on campus in the athletic department.
• 52:17
  The administration was amazing. You mentioned you have a lot of
• 52:20
  support. Here.
• 52:21
  So you had a lot of that available for the athletes and
• 52:23
  the coaches. Yeah, Yeah, it was, it was
• 52:26
  tough, but we. We made it through.
• 52:27
  I mean, Kristen, who shared an office with him, she couldn't
• 52:31
  she she used the conference room for about a week.
• 52:33
  So like she couldn't be in there.
• 52:35
  You know, it's like I'm because she's facing that desk every
• 52:38
  day, you know, But even still another thing is something I got
• 52:43
  from even Chris Miltenberg, you know, to to kind of switch gears
• 52:48
  a little bit. It's even, you know, how do you
• 52:50
  want to score your points? You know, because you have this,
• 52:52
  you could have this mindset. And initially my mindset was OK,
• 52:55
  we're going to be like a sprint's throws distance from
• 52:57
  with me, Jared and whoever jumps will rely on walk on, blah,
• 53:01
  blah, blah. And it's like, no, it's too
• 53:03
  early for that. Like give everyone a fair shake.
• 53:06
  Let's see who you bring to the table.
• 53:08
  Let's see who you recruit, who you bring the table.
• 53:09
  Who can you coach, who coaches up, who earns, who utilizes the
• 53:13
  money they have, who you know, earns that money with recruits
• 53:17
  and see where it goes. And just giving everyone a fair
• 53:21
  shake because we're going to be a pretty good jumps program, a
• 53:24
  good pole vault program, a good throws program.
• 53:26
  And you know, with the different avenues of financial aid and
• 53:29
  athletic scholarship, I think we could be a very, very, very
• 53:32
  well-rounded program. I don't think we're going to
• 53:34
  have to rely on all our points here, all our points there.
• 53:38
  You know, again, I have a great, I have a great staff that is
• 53:43
  ready to get after it and are enjoying themselves while they
• 53:47
  do it. And it's again, long term, you
• 53:49
  know, I'm not, I'm not hung up on, you know, the Patriot League
• 53:53
  Championship in a month. We want to do this the right
• 53:55
  way. You know, we're going to put our
• 53:56
  best foot forward. We're going to come in and
• 53:59
  perform. We're going to get after it.
• 54:01
  But if we fall short, then so be it.
• 54:03
  We put our best foot forward and we're always thinking big, big
• 54:05
  picture. And even selling the
• 54:07
  championship program. We could be a national level
• 54:09
  team, a Patriot League championship team.
• 54:12
  If you're a senior, you have a direct hand in that success
• 54:16
  years down the line, the legacy that you leave and the mentality
• 54:19
  that you bring to the table every single day, right.
• 54:22
  So I've told this thing is like, guys, with the work that you do,
• 54:25
  when we win our first championship on the men's side,
• 54:28
  first one like ever, you will have had a direct hand in that
• 54:32
  100%. Yeah, sometimes a tough, hard,
• 54:34
  tough. Sell to make because it's hard
• 54:37
  for a 20/21/22 year old kid to see that what they're doing is
• 54:41
  laying foundation for something in the future where maybe a
• 54:44
  freshman says OK, well good, I'll be here for four years so I
• 54:46
  get to see this and that's where maturity.
• 54:48
  Comes in maturity comes in and also in turn recruiting the
• 54:51
  right person that has that that perspective of long term vision
• 54:55
  and holistic plan. You know and we we got a good
• 54:59
  thing going here we got the right products we got the right
• 55:02
  people, we got the right resources and good things can
• 55:04
  happen here we can do it the right way.
• 55:06
  You know, we haven't touched the transfer portal, you know, and
• 55:10
  and we do have the ability to do that.
• 55:11
  We can take transfers, but we do a whole show on transfers.
• 55:14
  Yeah, I'm. Sure, I'm sure we.
• 55:15
  Could but you know, I gave scholarship money to two kids
• 55:18
  sight unseen this year because there were seniors that were
• 55:22
  walk ONS that had scored at the Patriot League championships
• 55:25
  that had not been on money that were ended up being captains on
• 55:28
  the team. And they got, I gave them
• 55:31
  scholarship because they deserved that and they earned
• 55:33
  that, you know, so, so you know, Gabe.
• 55:39
  There's no doubt you're going to, whether it's a Patriot
• 55:42
  League or another third or even higher place at nationals,
• 55:46
  Obviously it's going to happen. You're you're putting together a
• 55:48
  great plan and certainly we're going to have to redo this
• 55:52
  interview when that happens and and see how those pencil plans
• 55:56
  got chiseled in it. Granted, right.
• 55:59
  But now let's let's take a turn. We've had fill this end
• 56:02
  phenomenally in a really great way about you as the coach, as
• 56:05
  Coach Sanders. Do they call you Coach Sanders
• 56:07
  or Coach Gabe? Coach Sanders?
• 56:09
  Yeah. OK, Coach Sanders.
• 56:10
  So let's go. Off the track and let's talk
• 56:12
  about Gabe. So what what do you do?
• 56:15
  You can't coach 24/7. I know a guy like you wants to,
• 56:20
  but what what is what do you like to do off a track?
• 56:22
  How do you kind of blow off steam and what the hobbies and
• 56:25
  what have you? I mean, it might.
• 56:27
  Sound funny, but my hobbies, my family, you know, there's only
• 56:30
  so much time you have and when you get married and then when
• 56:34
  you have a child yeah, You know, I only.
• 56:36
  I will only speak for myself. I don't I try not to be that guy
• 56:39
  that says this is what it's like right For me.
• 56:40
  You're not old enough to you'll do that one day when?
• 56:42
  You go. I'm sure I will.
• 56:43
  I'm sure I will. But yeah, I, I do the best that
• 56:45
  I can to prioritize time with my family, you know, and, and being
• 56:49
  present, that's something I try and practice what I preach.
• 56:52
  When I talk to the kids, it's, you know, when you're at
• 56:54
  practice, I don't want to hear about your problem sets.
• 56:56
  I don't want to hear about your exams, your projects, like be
• 56:59
  here now or present, be in the now.
• 57:01
  Yeah, when you're in lecture, I don't want you thinking about
• 57:04
  the workout. I don't want you to think about
• 57:05
  the meet, like focus on your lecture.
• 57:07
  So I do the best I can to practice what I preach and just
• 57:10
  be present for my family. So but how do you do that now?
• 57:13
  I'm a. Former coach, myself too now and
• 57:15
  luckily I got out of it before cell phones were the big thing.
• 57:19
  But how do you handle being at home and having dinner with wife
• 57:24
  and kid and the an athlete text or calls or what have you?
• 57:29
  How do you, how do you help separate that?
• 57:32
  I do the best I can. To do exact, to draw lines, you
• 57:36
  know, And first and foremost, let me be clear, I I've evolved
• 57:40
  to think that there is no such thing as an absolute balance.
• 57:44
  Balance is a whole cup. Work life balance.
• 57:48
  Work life, I think. I think balance is to each
• 57:52
  individual person, what is your, what makes your cup full?
• 57:55
  What is your, some people are quote UN quote 5050, but some
• 57:58
  people are 7030. Some people are 8020 and that is
• 58:02
  they're happy with that. So this is not a sitting here in
• 58:05
  judgement everyone. But for me, something that I
• 58:08
  really got into a few years ago when I was at Stanford was the
• 58:11
  concept of deep work and deep work.
• 58:14
  Deep work. And this is something that Cal
• 58:19
  Newport, the author, he is a computer science engineering
• 58:23
  professor at Georgetown. Great book.
• 58:25
  Deep work, the idea of essentially being very binary
• 58:29
  with your time and your focus. So when you are doing tasks that
• 58:33
  you have to think very deeply on on a daily basis, not shallow.
• 58:38
  So something that's shallow is, let's say, answering emails or
• 58:42
  taking an inventory or, you know, doing organization at the
• 58:47
  track or something like that. Something that really doesn't
• 58:50
  take a lot of work, answering voicemails, deep work that in my
• 58:55
  world is sitting down and diving into a training cycle, right?
• 59:01
  OK, sitting. Down.
• 59:03
  And diving into writing an alumni letter, a really good
• 59:07
  one, sitting down and really dialing into the budget, things
• 59:11
  of that nature like operational things that that are very
• 59:14
  important and have to get done. And it takes a lot of
• 59:17
  psychological and emotional effort and have to be done
• 59:19
  really well, have to be done really well, so deep in.
• 59:23
  That you have to really dial in you.
• 59:27
  Have to dial into that and focus on the things that are
• 59:29
  monumentally important as to what you do, like what you know,
• 59:33
  the whole focus 80% of the year energy on the 20% that matters
• 59:37
  the best. That's kind of a way to to think
• 59:39
  of it. If you do that effectively, you
• 59:43
  can, you can do this. I don't want to say 9:00 to
• 59:45
  5:00, but you can go home and leave work at work here, you
• 59:51
  know, so the Cal Newport says, you know, when I work, I work
• 59:56
  really, really hard. Really.
• 59:59
  Hard SO. When I go home, I can just I'm
• 1:00:03
  good. So that's that's the philosophy.
• 1:00:06
  You're bringing here. That's what I'm trying to.
• 1:00:09
  I, I try to, you know, I, I absolutely fall short and, and
• 1:00:13
  some days because I get distracted.
• 1:00:14
  And you mean e-mail. I'm human like e-mail the.
• 1:00:17
  Bane of my existence or I get caught up in it or you know, I,
• 1:00:20
  you know, in my position when someone knocks, it's usually
• 1:00:23
  pretty important. You know, it's probably one of
• 1:00:25
  the more important interactions of their day.
• 1:00:28
  You know, someone talking to the, the director or the head
• 1:00:30
  coach, their boss, what have you.
• 1:00:32
  But for me, when I leave the office, I turn to, I try to turn
• 1:00:37
  to my family and say, you know what, that's it.
• 1:00:40
  I even tell my staff. Think of it this way, guys.
• 1:00:43
  If you are about to send a text to me or the group or an e-mail
• 1:00:47
  or something like that and it's eight, 9:00 at night, really ask
• 1:00:51
  yourself, does this need to be answered absolutely right now or
• 1:00:55
  can it wait 12 hours? Like stop and ask yourself that.
• 1:01:01
  If it probably can wait for 12 hours, then wait for 12 hours,
• 1:01:04
  right? Because now what you do is you
• 1:01:06
  text me now it's on my mind. It's on the staff's mind, right?
• 1:01:10
  Like the e-mail thing will pop up and I'm like, I, I can't
• 1:01:12
  answer that right now. Oh my God.
• 1:01:13
  So you're never away from it now.
• 1:01:15
  With cell phones, yeah. And iPad, yeah.
• 1:01:17
  So it's something where we try. Like if you want to text me a
• 1:01:19
  joke or something like that, but if it's like, oh, coach, I, I
• 1:01:23
  wanted to go to this meet. I'm thinking about going to this
• 1:01:26
  meet or coach, you know, I wanted to ask you about, you
• 1:01:30
  know, the uniform choice this weekend or something like that.
• 1:01:33
  Can we talk? About that today, really, really
• 1:01:35
  shallow. Big picture, right?
• 1:01:37
  Right. Again, like a shallow thing,
• 1:01:39
  but. It can take up space in your
• 1:01:40
  head, right? You know, I, I tell my staff,
• 1:01:43
  like when you can take your Sundays, take your Sundays.
• 1:01:47
  Yeah, you know, but again, someone like let's say Grant
• 1:01:51
  Cartwright, young, 23 year old, he's got a girlfriend in town.
• 1:01:54
  But you know, he usually he works on Sunday, right?
• 1:01:57
  Like he recruits on Sunday. He does training plans on
• 1:02:00
  Sunday, right. His javelin throwers don't don't
• 1:02:03
  train on Saturdays. So, you know, based on his
• 1:02:05
  schedule, they, they practice for a couple hours on Sunday,
• 1:02:08
  right? That's fine.
• 1:02:09
  Like, because that's his stage, that's his stage of life and
• 1:02:12
  career. Yes, and all of us evolved like.
• 1:02:15
  I operated totally differently when I was 202425 and single
• 1:02:20
  versus being 3536 and married versus, you know, being 36 and
• 1:02:26
  being the director of program, being an assistant, you know,
• 1:02:31
  so, So what are you doing on Sundays?
• 1:02:33
  Then what? What are you little boys 2?
• 1:02:37
  So now he's a real person in my. Mind so he's got a he's he's
• 1:02:40
  interacting he likes to do stuff what what are you guys doing on
• 1:02:43
  Sunday? Really simple.
• 1:02:44
  It's the simplest. Things for me, I, I'd like, I'd
• 1:02:47
  like to think I speak to a lot of dads, something as simple as,
• 1:02:50
  you know, instead of your wife waking up with your son, like
• 1:02:53
  you wake up with him and you know, you like, for me, he loves
• 1:02:57
  yogurt and Cheerios. So we have his yogurt and then
• 1:03:01
  like he wants some cheesy eggs, cheesy eggs, you know, where I,
• 1:03:04
  I cook him cheesy eggs and we share she, we share breakfast.
• 1:03:08
  I have a coffee, he has milk and eggs and we share the eggs and
• 1:03:11
  the toast. And we do that.
• 1:03:14
  You know, he's starting to ride an assisted bike out for a
• 1:03:17
  little bike ride. We might go to like the
• 1:03:20
  trampoline palace or something like that.
• 1:03:23
  He takes a nap and maybe I'll do a little perusing on flow track
• 1:03:26
  or mile split and maybe I'll make some recruiting calls.
• 1:03:29
  Maybe, you know, right now with our exact stage, we're working
• 1:03:33
  on moving into a house. So we'll talk about things that
• 1:03:35
  we have to do with the move in, you know, when it's more
• 1:03:40
  regular, we might say, hey, what do we want to do it?
• 1:03:42
  Do we want to go to the park? Do we want?
• 1:03:44
  To go to the trampoline. Palace.
• 1:03:46
  Do we want to do these things? I mean, here in Boston, there's
• 1:03:48
  a lot. Of things to do, the holy cow,
• 1:03:50
  you know, do we want to go to the acquirement?
• 1:03:52
  Do we just want to stay at home today and hang out, you know, so
• 1:03:56
  you know, what kind of activities do you want to do as
• 1:03:58
  a family? Because I know time is, is
• 1:04:01
  probably the most valuable infinite and simultaneously
• 1:04:06
  finite resource we have, right. You know, and obviously with the
• 1:04:10
  timing of this, you can look at Kobe Bryant's, you know, yeah.
• 1:04:14
  So recently it's just. You just never know, right?
• 1:04:16
  You know, time, time in all areas of every single person's
• 1:04:20
  life is the most infinite and finite that we have at the same
• 1:04:23
  time. Yeah, You always say, oh, we
• 1:04:25
  could, I'll get to it tomorrow. I'll do this.
• 1:04:26
  I'll do that. But then you know what?
• 1:04:28
  5 seconds ago, you can't get 10 seconds ago.
• 1:04:31
  Absolutely so. Absolutely.
• 1:04:33
  It's, it's really understanding and, and putting down Twitter
• 1:04:38
  and putting down Facebook and putting down Snapchat and Tiktok
• 1:04:41
  and, and just being present, you know, with, with whatever that
• 1:04:45
  looks like. You know, I, I haven't had the
• 1:04:48
  time for any hobbies yet or just to sit down.
• 1:04:50
  And I can't wait for the day when I can just sit down and
• 1:04:53
  watch a Netflix binge. You know, I just which I could
• 1:04:57
  do years ago, but I. Enjoy the time.
• 1:05:00
  I had with my family. I enjoy watching my son grow up.
• 1:05:05
  I enjoy watching my son grow up with his grandparents right now,
• 1:05:07
  which is really cool. I know it sounds cliche, but I'm
• 1:05:11
  a Family Guy. I just like spending time with
• 1:05:13
  my family. That's awesome.
• 1:05:15
  You know, I'm a jock. I like to work out, you know,
• 1:05:17
  when I can, when I can afford it, the time to do it, when I
• 1:05:20
  can afford the time to do it. You know, I think in years down
• 1:05:24
  line when I have a little more free time, maybe I'll go to
• 1:05:26
  Celtics games every other Sunday or something like that.
• 1:05:30
  You know, I got some buddies in town and they like to bike ride
• 1:05:32
  and maybe I'll end up buying a bike, who knows?
• 1:05:34
  Yeah, lots of biking here. But I know as a family man.
• 1:05:37
  Things tend to revolve around what the family wants.
• 1:05:39
  That's it man, you just. Put so many unintentionally.
• 1:05:42
  You just put so many coaches, male coaches to shame because we
• 1:05:47
  get very selfless in the sense of our kids that we coach, but
• 1:05:52
  that in terms is also selfish because we sometimes put our
• 1:05:55
  families and children and husbands and wives on the back
• 1:05:59
  burner. So that that's a good lesson.
• 1:06:01
  And that is the best place to stop right there.
• 1:06:04
  Because if people learn anything from this podcast with you,
• 1:06:08
  Gabe, if they'll learn that we'll have much healthier
• 1:06:12
  mental, physical, emotional coaches and really people,
• 1:06:15
  'cause that's 100% we are, man, That's a. 100%.
• 1:06:18
  Dude, thank you so much. Mike, this.
• 1:06:19
  Has been great man I. Really appreciate it.
• 1:06:21
  This was easy. You're right.
• 1:06:22
  This is. Is it already been an hour?
• 1:06:24
  It's an hour. Plus, we got over an hour and
• 1:06:27
  honestly, we could go another hour.
• 1:06:29
  But you got to get home to the family.
• 1:06:31
  Yes, I do, because you're a family man.
• 1:06:32
  Yes, Sir. Mike, thanks so much.
• 1:06:34
  Thanks a lot. Brother appreciate you so much.
• 1:06:39
  Woo. What a.
• 1:06:40
  Great hour. What a way to end it there with
• 1:06:42
  Gabe dropping some knowledge. Even got a book recommendation.
• 1:06:46
  I am going to check that out. I hope you do as well if you've
• 1:06:49
  made it this far. Thanks for joining us.
• 1:06:52
  Hope you enjoyed connecting with this interview as much as I did.
• 1:06:55
  If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on the show,
• 1:06:58
  contact me at HURDLE at gillathletics.com.
• 1:07:04
  That's right, Hurdle at gillathletics.com.
• 1:07:07
  In the meantime, we hope you feel led to share this podcast
• 1:07:11
  on your social media network of choice and join us again in the
• 1:07:13
  future to connect with another Fine Track coach across the
• 1:07:17
  country.