Latest / Ridiculous History / Ridiculous "Remedies" of the Spanish Flu: The Rise of the Lemon

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Ridiculous "Remedies" of the Spanish Flu: The Rise of the Lemon · Ridiculous History

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
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Speaker 1: to the show, Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you so
0:30
Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Today's question, have you or a
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Speaker 1: loved one ever received a home remedy? These might not
0:40
Speaker 1: be as common as they were once, but the idea
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Speaker 1: is familiar to a lot of people listening today. You know,
0:47
Speaker 1: let's say you're under the weather, you have a cold,
0:50
Speaker 1: maybe you have a sore throat or something like that,
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Speaker 1: and someone says, here, just drink this water with honey
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Speaker 1: and lemon, for instance, or just use this poultice, which
1:03
Speaker 1: is a word I'd never get to use. Have you
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Speaker 1: had a home remedy? If so, we'd love to hear
1:08
Speaker 1: about it. It has a lot to do with today's episode.
1:12
Speaker 1: My name is Ben, Hi, my name is dol Here
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Speaker 1: pound this glass of whiskey. That'll that'll definitely here. What
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Speaker 1: ails you? What do you call it? Uncle uncle Buddy's
1:23
Speaker 1: leg medicine you're taking? You're taking by phrase? Yeah, I
1:26
Speaker 1: told you that years ago. Yeah, well I'm out. I'm
1:29
Speaker 1: confirming I don't. I just wanted you to remind me
1:31
Speaker 1: it was such a good word. Yeah. Yeah. The name
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Speaker 1: for medicinal whiskey, which is pretty common in certain parts
1:40
Speaker 1: of Appalachia. Uh, you know, I'm not sure whether this
1:43
Speaker 1: is an actual tennis seat name or whether this is
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Speaker 1: something my family made up, but I always loved the
1:49
Speaker 1: phrase Grandpa's leg medicine. That's the weirdest name for whiskey.
1:54
Speaker 1: Who are you, my friends? Ala, I said it, I'm
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Speaker 1: Noel still. Oh great, awesome. So we've got that a
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Speaker 1: staffle and uh, this guy rocking that cool fitted cap
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Speaker 1: today is our super producer, Casey Pegram. What's the cap? Say?
2:08
Speaker 1: I can I'm have to blow you up here on
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Speaker 1: my on my zoom screen. Going back to our old episode. Yes,
2:14
Speaker 1: the classic sibling rivalry that divided a small gem and town. Yeah,
2:19
Speaker 1: that's a good that's an all timer. If anybody hasn't
2:21
Speaker 1: heard that one, that's worth going back for. I couldn't
2:22
Speaker 1: agree more, Thanks, Casey. But today we're not talking about
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Speaker 1: rivalries exactly now, not at all. I'm I'm doing a
2:29
Speaker 1: bad job with the segue here. We're talking about exactly
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Speaker 1: what Ben said, which is the idea of home remedies.
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Speaker 1: You know, some of them like the honey with lemon
2:38
Speaker 1: and a little bit of whiskey, Yeah, there's some probably
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Speaker 1: some efficaciousness to that. If you have a sore throat,
2:45
Speaker 1: will it actually cure like a virus? Probably not. In fact,
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out on a limb and say definitely not. Uh,
2:52
Speaker 1: go out on a limb and say definitely not. That's
2:54
Speaker 1: that's a foreshadowing thing for what's to come. Um. But
2:58
Speaker 1: it's sort of like the power of the mind, you know,
3:00
Speaker 1: mind over matter. If you believe in something, then it
3:03
Speaker 1: can at the very least make you feel better. Um.
3:07
Speaker 1: But we are specifically talking about remedies surrounding uh, not
3:10
Speaker 1: this pandemic that we're in currently, but the nineteen eighteen
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Speaker 1: Spanish flu pandemic, which we've often seen uh compared to
3:18
Speaker 1: what we're going through right now with COVID nineteam as
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Speaker 1: a parallel, and that holds true for this as well.
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Speaker 1: There's a lot of kind of weird remedies that are
3:27
Speaker 1: being kicked around for COVID, uh, some actually being trumpeted
3:31
Speaker 1: by folks in power. Yeah. You know, in times of uncertainty,
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Speaker 1: people cling to things that feel like a sure bet,
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Speaker 1: or really we cling to things that feel like they're
3:43
Speaker 1: better than nothing. History is chock full of purported cures
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Speaker 1: that later turned out to be not as helpful as
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Speaker 1: they were originally imagined to be. And in some cases
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Speaker 1: these quote unquote yours turn out to be actually harmful.
4:03
Speaker 1: But you're right. The sheer terror of the Spanish flu
4:08
Speaker 1: made people desperate enough to try almost anything. And as
4:14
Speaker 1: we go into this, it's necessary to establish these people
4:18
Speaker 1: were just as smart and just as flawed as people
4:21
Speaker 1: living today. So the people in nineteen eighteen and the
4:24
Speaker 1: people in no difference other than the amount of information
4:28
Speaker 1: they had at the time. Just like the coronavirus pandemic.
4:34
Speaker 1: When the Spanish flu hit in nineteen eighteen, when it
4:39
Speaker 1: became an official capital B, capital D, big deal, a
4:43
Speaker 1: lot of newspapers from the time said that influenza wasn't dangerous. Hey, everybody,
4:50
Speaker 1: they said, as voices of reason, we are all familiar
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Speaker 1: with the flu. It's been around, It's gonna come back again.
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Speaker 1: It's not the end of the war. Old We have
5:01
Speaker 1: advice for you, other than staying calm, just remember to
5:06
Speaker 1: take care of yourself, keep your feet dry, stay warm,
5:09
Speaker 1: eat more onions, keep your windows and your bowels open.
5:16
Speaker 1: What does it mean to keep your bowels? I don't
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Speaker 1: even want to know. There was another really good suggestion
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Speaker 1: to UH that was the idea that phonograph players record
5:24
Speaker 1: players were, you know, in the same way that we're
5:28
Speaker 1: seeing advertising campaigns pivot to being you know, COVID related.
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Speaker 1: That was happening then, and the ad genius minds behind
5:37
Speaker 1: phonograph campaigns started to advertise them as machines guaranteed to
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Speaker 1: drive away influenza, because passing the time listening to records
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Speaker 1: is the way to forget that you can't go outside. Um,
5:49
Speaker 1: there's so many more of these, like things like uh,
5:52
Speaker 1: garlic um camp for balls wrapped in cheesecloth and like
5:57
Speaker 1: hanging around people's necks like you would like trying to
5:59
Speaker 1: war it off vampires. What is campher noll? Camphor is like,
6:03
Speaker 1: isn't it like what what's mothballs are made of? Yeah?
6:07
Speaker 1: I think you're right, But I what is camphor actual?
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Speaker 1: The actual substance camphor Um is a terpene um that
6:16
Speaker 1: is used in creams, and it actually is derived from
6:20
Speaker 1: the oil that comes out of camphor trees. I think
6:24
Speaker 1: it's almost like a tea tree kind of situation. Um.
6:27
Speaker 1: It's supposed to relieve itching and swelling and UM kind
6:33
Speaker 1: of inflammation potentially, and it is also apparently something that
6:38
Speaker 1: is a moth repellent. Ah okay, And then you said
6:42
Speaker 1: sugar cubes, right, but not any ordinary garden variety sugar cube.
6:46
Speaker 1: It's like, if you can't fight the disease well enough
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Speaker 1: with a sugar cube alone, combine it with its natural
6:52
Speaker 1: partner kerosene. Really yeah, not clear if you're supposed to
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Speaker 1: just keep these in a dish or if really supposed
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Speaker 1: to eat them. I don't know. Uh what do you think?
7:03
Speaker 1: I mean? Clearly you put them in your armpits and
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Speaker 1: at the back of your knee. Uh, and and you
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Speaker 1: walk through the town uh that way with an onion
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Speaker 1: on your belt, which was the style of the day.
7:13
Speaker 1: Makes perfect sense to me. Um. Also there were some
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Speaker 1: other more whiskey again um the famous the famous leg
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Speaker 1: medicine um, and also something called Mrs Winslow's Soothing Syrup, which,
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Speaker 1: as we know, UM, a lot of those cough medicines
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Speaker 1: that were intended for for folks of all ages contained
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Speaker 1: lots of alcohol and potentially morphine, and this one also
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Speaker 1: had a nice extra little punch with some ammonia, and
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Speaker 1: it was pretty regularly given to infants was also pretty
7:43
Speaker 1: regularly criticized in public. The a m A. The American
7:48
Speaker 1: Medical Association called Mrs Winslow's soothing syrup a quote baby
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Speaker 1: killer back in nineteen eleven. It was still on the
7:55
Speaker 1: market for for for almost two decades later. Uh, this
8:01
Speaker 1: is strange. We're gonna walk through some of these purported
8:06
Speaker 1: fulk remedies, right, And some of these treatments, by the way,
8:10
Speaker 1: were recommended by medical authorities of the day. One thing
8:14
Speaker 1: people loved that doctors did not co signed was the
8:18
Speaker 1: idea that the Spanish flu could be deterred by the
8:23
Speaker 1: color red, just the presence of the color red. All
8:28
Speaker 1: throughout Chicago, families would shut their windows and doors and
8:33
Speaker 1: they would boil red pepper in an attempt to stave
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Speaker 1: off the virus. So this is a notion that by
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Speaker 1: boiling red pepper, you are harnessing the assance of the
8:42
Speaker 1: color red. Sorry for my incredibly pretentious pronunciation. There was
8:46
Speaker 1: that sort of what we're getting at. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
8:48
Speaker 1: you're you're weaponizing red. It reminds me of a scene
8:53
Speaker 1: in It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, one of the I
8:57
Speaker 1: think one of their more recent episodes where Frank Olds,
9:00
Speaker 1: the character played by Danny de Vito, starts demanding that
9:04
Speaker 1: he only eats blue, just blue colored food, because he
9:09
Speaker 1: feels like it's classy and he feels like it's good
9:12
Speaker 1: for you. Uh. I'm not saying that the entirety of
9:16
Speaker 1: Chicago was made up of Danny DeVito clones in nineteen eighteen.
9:20
Speaker 1: That would just be genetically impossible. But you're right. People
9:24
Speaker 1: did believe that things associated with the color red would
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Speaker 1: somehow prevent the encroachment of the virus because the flu
9:35
Speaker 1: apparently just didn't like that color. Yeah, that's right. Uh.
9:38
Speaker 1: And in Louisiana there is even a hospital superintendent, you know,
9:44
Speaker 1: supposed to be relatively in the know about the latest
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Speaker 1: trends in the medical treatments. Um. He recommended, uh, weaving
9:52
Speaker 1: a quilt out of wormwood, um and sewing between it
9:57
Speaker 1: layers of flannel that were dipped in hot vinegar. I
10:01
Speaker 1: don't understand. I guess the flannel was read. But here's
10:05
Speaker 1: here's the craziest one of all. Um, there is actually
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Speaker 1: a recommendation in a book about the pandemic that preserved
10:15
Speaker 1: a letter to the Public Health Service suggesting that service men.
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Speaker 1: I'm guessing this is like frontline medical workers, uh, you know,
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Speaker 1: on on the ground wear a red ribbon on their
10:28
Speaker 1: chest because quote the flu is the devil, and devil
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Speaker 1: don't work with red, right. That seems counterintuitive to me,
10:36
Speaker 1: though Ben doesn't. I thought the devil would love read. Well,
10:39
Speaker 1: you know in some depictions of hell, you know, the
10:42
Speaker 1: very pit of the abyss is a frozen, cold place,
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Speaker 1: so maybe there would not be fire. I think a
10:49
Speaker 1: lot of people have the association of red with the
10:52
Speaker 1: Christian devil because of the concept of flames. But you know,
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Speaker 1: devil don't work with red. I think that's a great catchphrase,
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Speaker 1: and I am not I'm not opposed to stealing that
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Speaker 1: from the letter quoted in that book you mentioned the
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Speaker 1: Spanish influenza pandemic of eighteen to nineteen nineteen. New perspectives,
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Speaker 1: the devil don't work with red, casey Pegram. I feel
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Speaker 1: like that's something you're always telling us that in product. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: those are like the two things I associate with the devil.
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Speaker 1: So what about another cure? I shouldn't say cure. We
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Speaker 1: have so many purported remedies. I don't know about you, guys,
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Speaker 1: but I can I can get behind this one pretty
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Speaker 1: easily sliced onions. If one person in the house came
11:38
Speaker 1: down with the Spanish influenza, everybody knew, you know, it
11:42
Speaker 1: was communicable, so your odds of getting it yourself greatly increased.
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Speaker 1: Some families would try to get in front of this
11:49
Speaker 1: if they had someone in their house who was infected,
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Speaker 1: they would slice onions and place them strategically around the home. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: it was this idea that onions absorbed impurities in the air. Uh.
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Speaker 1: And this is actually a pretty long standing kind of
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Speaker 1: folk remedy in general. It wasn't specific just to the
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Speaker 1: Spanish flu um. This this notion that onions can absorb
12:13
Speaker 1: bacteria and just nasty things in the air. Of course
12:17
Speaker 1: that's not true. Um. I will say that onions are
12:21
Speaker 1: pretty good at absorbing like flavors and other smells. So
12:26
Speaker 1: if you had like a like a cut onion and
12:28
Speaker 1: you left that in the fridge, they would do a
12:30
Speaker 1: pretty good job of like absorbing some of those other, um,
12:33
Speaker 1: you know, fridge smells. Uh. So it's probably a good
12:36
Speaker 1: idea to keep your keep your onions wrapped up. But
12:38
Speaker 1: that could just be uh could just be my imagination
12:42
Speaker 1: based on this old uh, this old folk remedy. Yeah. Yeah.
12:45
Speaker 1: While we're on the subject of smell, I do have
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Speaker 1: one weird tip about garlic smells that I learned way
12:52
Speaker 1: too late. Garlic has also been used in a similar
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Speaker 1: way to onions, with the idea that the smell somehow
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Speaker 1: will just aid a disease or a vampire or so on.
13:03
Speaker 1: I did not know this, but you know how when
13:04
Speaker 1: you cut garlic, your hands may smell of garlic. Afterwards,
13:09
Speaker 1: if you rub your hands on stainless steel, it will
13:13
Speaker 1: remove the smell of garlic. Isn't that crazy? That is crazy.
13:19
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. Another interesting thing to that, to
13:23
Speaker 1: that end about onions is you know how when you
13:26
Speaker 1: cut an onion, it makes you cry. I mean, that's
13:28
Speaker 1: definitely a thing that happens, and I wonder if that
13:30
Speaker 1: lad some people to believe that onions have some sort
13:32
Speaker 1: of magical properties. It is true that onions um actually
13:38
Speaker 1: have antibacterial properties, which makes them less prone to uh
13:43
Speaker 1: bacterial contamination. UM. In fact, so here's here's the thing.
13:46
Speaker 1: There's a chemical reaction that happens when an onion is cut.
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Speaker 1: It actually produces something called pro pen sulfenic acid, which
13:56
Speaker 1: then yields uh sulfuric acid once it decomposes, and that
14:02
Speaker 1: sulfuric acid is actually what makes you cry by irritating
14:06
Speaker 1: your eyes. Um. Sulfuric acid also is something that will
14:10
Speaker 1: prevent the growth of bacteria but absorb it. That's a stretch. Yeah, yeah,
14:16
Speaker 1: but you can see where the logic is coming from here.
14:20
Speaker 1: When when you hear about the idea of slicing onions, again,
14:24
Speaker 1: people weren't foolish. They were working with the information they
14:27
Speaker 1: had at the time. There was also a strange correlation
14:31
Speaker 1: here between toxic gases and the flu or perceived correlation,
14:38
Speaker 1: I should say. During the pandemic, a group of villagers
14:42
Speaker 1: in England stumbled upon what they saw as a strange
14:46
Speaker 1: and informative relationship. They noticed that workers who were exposed
14:53
Speaker 1: to noxious gas appeared to catch influenza at a lower rate,
14:59
Speaker 1: and because of this, many concerned parents who did not
15:03
Speaker 1: want their children to die of the Spanish flu took
15:06
Speaker 1: them to industrial areas, to factories, to plants and expose
15:11
Speaker 1: them to those gases instead of taking them to the doctor. Here,
15:16
Speaker 1: little Johnny stuck on this uh smoke stack for a while.
15:19
Speaker 1: That'll that'll cure what ails you. Yikes. It kind of
15:22
Speaker 1: reminds me of been you. You recall when COVID nineteen
15:26
Speaker 1: first kicked in, there was concerned that cigarettes tobacco smokers
15:29
Speaker 1: would be more prone to getting the disease because it's
15:32
Speaker 1: an upper respiratory thing, and and this notion that you
15:35
Speaker 1: know it we it would weaken your immune system or
15:37
Speaker 1: a weekend your upper respiratory system. But then a study
15:40
Speaker 1: out of France you might recall as well, uh, showed
15:44
Speaker 1: that smokers were being infected much less frequently. We don't
15:50
Speaker 1: know why. I don't know what that correlation was, but
15:52
Speaker 1: yet there it is. So I wonder if this is
15:54
Speaker 1: a similar situation where because you're sucking on toxic fumes
15:58
Speaker 1: so much, maybe your body is just and it like
16:00
Speaker 1: rejecting things, or you know, you've basically bulked up your
16:04
Speaker 1: immune system because it works so hard all the time.
16:07
Speaker 1: I don't know this is I'm obviously not a lung
16:09
Speaker 1: doctor here, but what do you guys think about that?
16:12
Speaker 1: I would say the methodology is up for examination, yes,
16:18
Speaker 1: just to be diplomatic about it. I mean, people who
16:20
Speaker 1: are chronic tobacco smokers may be less likely to go
16:24
Speaker 1: to a doctor or may already have symptoms of COVID
16:30
Speaker 1: that can just be attributed to the labor that the
16:33
Speaker 1: lungs experience on a day to day basis with smoking.
16:36
Speaker 1: But I also I also followed that as well. It
16:40
Speaker 1: was an interesting report and we're still seeing again more
16:43
Speaker 1: and more cures being proposed. And then withdrawing from the
16:47
Speaker 1: public sphere, there was one medical expert, a sanitary officer
16:52
Speaker 1: by trade, who said, I'm gonna look into this inhaling
16:56
Speaker 1: fumes thing. I don't know if kids should go straight
17:01
Speaker 1: to the nitric acid playground before they visit the doctor.
17:06
Speaker 1: By playground, I mean factory. Anyway, this guy found that
17:10
Speaker 1: the general rate of influenza in this area in England
17:14
Speaker 1: was about which is huge. And then he looked specifically
17:19
Speaker 1: at a local factory, a ten factory, and in this
17:23
Speaker 1: factory workers were exposed to nitric acid on a regular basis.
17:27
Speaker 1: The rate of influenza in that factory appeared to be
17:31
Speaker 1: just eleven percent. And then he somehow found that if
17:36
Speaker 1: these workers also inhaled gunpowder, their rate of influenza was
17:41
Speaker 1: only five percent. This comes from Dr Jeremy Brown in
17:45
Speaker 1: his book named Influenza. Was that a normal situation. Look,
17:50
Speaker 1: I have never worked at a ten factory. I've never
17:53
Speaker 1: made ten. But are people getting exposed to nitric acid
17:58
Speaker 1: and then also inhaling gunpowder on their lunch break? What?
18:01
Speaker 1: What gives? How is that a normal thing? It certainly
18:03
Speaker 1: seems pretty specific if you ask me, um side effective
18:07
Speaker 1: working you know around lots of gunpowder, like and like
18:11
Speaker 1: saying arms manufacturing, you know, facility or something like that.
18:15
Speaker 1: But who knows. The jury is still out on that one.
18:23
Speaker 1: Shall we move on to the next one? Then? Oh? Yes,
18:25
Speaker 1: let's this will be familiar to anyone who's read up
18:29
Speaker 1: on malaria. That's right, And it also is gonna have
18:33
Speaker 1: a little bit of resonance with uh one of today's
18:38
Speaker 1: somewhat spurious remedies that the jury is definitely still out
18:41
Speaker 1: on being kicked around. And when I say today, I
18:43
Speaker 1: mean modern day. Um. This one is quinine, which is
18:47
Speaker 1: an anti parasite that was used very effectively in treating malaria.
18:54
Speaker 1: It's also something, if I'm not mistaken, that is what
18:58
Speaker 1: gives tonic water. It's a kind of weird bitter taste. Yeah,
19:02
Speaker 1: I'm glad we brought this up. Gin and tonic the cocktail.
19:06
Speaker 1: Everybody knows, and some people love has this fantastic origin story.
19:12
Speaker 1: It is a cocktail that came about because of malaria. Today,
19:18
Speaker 1: malaria kills around four hundred thousand individuals per year. But
19:24
Speaker 1: in the seventeen hundreds, the Scottish doctor named George Cleghorn
19:28
Speaker 1: discovered that quinting can be used to treat malaria, and
19:34
Speaker 1: they put it in tonic water, and this lead to
19:38
Speaker 1: tonic water being given out to British soldiers when they
19:42
Speaker 1: were stationed in India during the age of the British Empire.
19:45
Speaker 1: But of course tonic water is pretty bitter by itself, right,
19:50
Speaker 1: That's why you just don't see a lot of people
19:52
Speaker 1: ordering straight up tonic. So back in the eighteen hundreds,
19:56
Speaker 1: soldiers started adding gin and then they added lemon, then
20:00
Speaker 1: they added lime to their tonic water, all the hide
20:03
Speaker 1: the bitter flavor of this malaria medication, and they accidentally
20:08
Speaker 1: invented the gin and tonic. Nowadays, by the way, gin
20:12
Speaker 1: and tonic is not going to be your go to
20:15
Speaker 1: cure for malaria because the quining content is pretty low nowadays.
20:20
Speaker 1: Isn't that interesting that it's basically kind of a nostalgic
20:23
Speaker 1: remnant of something that once was like actually used for
20:26
Speaker 1: a real reason and and and was meant to not
20:29
Speaker 1: taste particularly great, and now it's something that people kind
20:31
Speaker 1: of developed a taste for, um because it's weird. It's
20:34
Speaker 1: when you mix. If you drink tonic water on its own,
20:37
Speaker 1: it does taste kind of gross. But if you mix
20:39
Speaker 1: gin with it and a little bit of squeeze a lime,
20:42
Speaker 1: you don't really taste that bitterness. It almost tastes like
20:44
Speaker 1: sprite or something, you know what I mean, Like it's
20:45
Speaker 1: it really does mask it, but it's sort of a
20:48
Speaker 1: necessary component to the cocktail, isn't it. I mean, look,
20:51
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest, I'm probably never gonna be the
20:54
Speaker 1: biggest fan of Mother's Ruin, which was a nickname for gin.
20:59
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys are like that. No not,
21:03
Speaker 1: it's a it's maybe a story for another day, but
21:05
Speaker 1: but you're right, they were doing a lot of stuff
21:08
Speaker 1: to cut that bitter taste. And quickly before we move on,
21:11
Speaker 1: I sort of set this up. UM. A drug that's
21:15
Speaker 1: being you know, kicked around right now with with a
21:19
Speaker 1: lot of um consternation and kind of controversy is something
21:24
Speaker 1: called hydroxy chlora queen um, which is also a drug
21:29
Speaker 1: that's used to treat that was effectively used to treat malaria. UM.
21:32
Speaker 1: It's something that certain individuals are are saying could potentially
21:37
Speaker 1: treat UH the coronavirus, but clinical trials have proven so
21:42
Speaker 1: far that that's not the case. But I just think
21:44
Speaker 1: it's really interesting that the parallel there between the Night's
21:48
Speaker 1: eighteen Spanish flu pandemic um. This notion of a previously
21:53
Speaker 1: effective drug being used to treat something UH new UM
21:58
Speaker 1: is very much still a thing right now because quinine
22:01
Speaker 1: was UH shown it would reduce the fever that caused
22:05
Speaker 1: by malaria, but that was because it actually treated malaria
22:09
Speaker 1: and attacked the parasite, it being an anti parasite UM,
22:13
Speaker 1: and it wasn't and it wasn't useful at all against viruses. Right,
22:17
Speaker 1: two different uh, two different diseases, you know what I mean?
22:21
Speaker 1: All not all diseases come from the same place. Now,
22:26
Speaker 1: I'm sure we're all familiar with the old, tried and
22:30
Speaker 1: true saying, when life gives you a pandemic, make lemonade
22:35
Speaker 1: or something like that. Lemons and citrus fruit in general,
22:39
Speaker 1: like lime, played a big role in combating disease. We
22:44
Speaker 1: have to note, of course, that citrus fruits like oranges, lemon,
22:48
Speaker 1: and lime, were effective in combating scurvy. That was a
22:53
Speaker 1: common affliction experienced by sailors out on the open ocean.
22:57
Speaker 1: But eventually lemons had a role to play in the
23:01
Speaker 1: nineteen eighteen pandemic, and it was actually very good for
23:06
Speaker 1: the lemon market. You see, before the nine eighteen Spanish
23:11
Speaker 1: flu pandemic, people in the US didn't really mess with lemons,
23:16
Speaker 1: you know, like nowadays you might be listening to this
23:18
Speaker 1: with some lemons in your house. You might be planning
23:21
Speaker 1: to pick up some lemons while you're listening to this podcast.
23:26
Speaker 1: But back in the day Preen, the average US resident
23:31
Speaker 1: maybe bought twelve lemons a year. They people just didn't
23:36
Speaker 1: care for the sour taste and they didn't, you know,
23:41
Speaker 1: like it wasn't a normal part of the diet. Yes,
23:45
Speaker 1: it's true. And by the way, I've learned recently from
23:48
Speaker 1: America's Test Kitchen that a lot of people keep their
23:51
Speaker 1: lemons out of bowls on the table. Well, that's a
23:53
Speaker 1: surefire way to end up with bad lemons. Refrigerate those
23:56
Speaker 1: lemons and the last a lot longer. Um. But back
23:59
Speaker 1: to the Uh, the task at hand. Um. It's true
24:03
Speaker 1: it was a difficult at the time to sell lemons. Uh.
24:08
Speaker 1: There was also in nineteen thirteen, in advance of the pandemic,
24:12
Speaker 1: there was a massive freeze that was very detrimental to
24:16
Speaker 1: the lemon crops. UM. And then in nineteen seventeen, Uh,
24:20
Speaker 1: there was a heat wave that absolutely you know, fried
24:23
Speaker 1: the lemon crops on the trees. But you know, after
24:26
Speaker 1: all of that consternation in the lemon industry that shake up,
24:29
Speaker 1: they finally had a good harvest. Uh, And it was
24:32
Speaker 1: actually things were going crazy with the lemon. Yield had doubled,
24:36
Speaker 1: but consumer demand had absolutely shrunk. Um. Consumers were only
24:42
Speaker 1: using about one lemon when they might have used to.
24:47
Speaker 1: And that was according to Don Francisco of the California
24:50
Speaker 1: Fruit Growers Association back in nineteen eighteen April. I love
24:54
Speaker 1: this guy. I love Don Francisco, and I'm also a
24:58
Speaker 1: big fan of Albert Lasker. Anyone who's familiar with the
25:03
Speaker 1: concept of advertising as depicted in Madmen or in the
25:09
Speaker 1: book Propaganda by Edward Bernese, if you're familiar with those characters,
25:13
Speaker 1: you're going to love this Albert Lasker guy. Don Francisco
25:18
Speaker 1: had started working with the California Fruit Growers Exchange that
25:23
Speaker 1: you would you had just mentioned uh in nineteen fourteen
25:26
Speaker 1: as a fruit examiner, which sounds like a cool job.
25:29
Speaker 1: I like looking at produce. I feel like that would
25:32
Speaker 1: be a pretty rewarding career. Francisco was not yet thirty.
25:37
Speaker 1: He was twenty seven years old, and he was already
25:41
Speaker 1: quote a legend in the citrus industry because, along with Lasker,
25:47
Speaker 1: this guy had no fooling invented orange juice or the
25:51
Speaker 1: modern concept of it. He popularized orange juice in the US,
25:55
Speaker 1: and he and Laskar didn't do it out of concern
26:00
Speaker 1: for people's health or out of some ultruistic motivation. They
26:06
Speaker 1: started marketing orange juice because they wanted to get more
26:10
Speaker 1: people eating oranges. They just wanted to sell more oranges.
26:14
Speaker 1: And they said, you know, squeezing oranges by hand, that's
26:17
Speaker 1: just too much work for anybody, So so let's let's
26:21
Speaker 1: make it easier. Right. Picture all those beginning clips of
26:25
Speaker 1: every TV infomercial ever where somebody is saying there's got
26:29
Speaker 1: to be a better way, fumbling with orange juice dripping
26:33
Speaker 1: off the hands, like oh if totally Um, this is
26:38
Speaker 1: some Edward Berne's level marketing right here, my friend is not.
26:43
Speaker 1: That's why I mentioned him. Yeah, oh my god, you
26:45
Speaker 1: are absolutely correct and connecting this with Edward Burns in
26:48
Speaker 1: the level of marketing genius on display here. Yea. So
26:53
Speaker 1: just a real quick tangent here, Noel, When we say
26:57
Speaker 1: Don Francisco and lask or sort of quote unquote invented
27:01
Speaker 1: orange juice, what what did they actually do? Because people
27:05
Speaker 1: have been taking the juice from oranges for you know,
27:08
Speaker 1: thousands of years, right, that's right. Um, so this is
27:12
Speaker 1: when you start seeing the introduction of the electric juicer. Uh,
27:17
Speaker 1: the juice press, which obviously is huge now everyone's gotta
27:21
Speaker 1: have one. Juicing is all the rage. But the groundwork
27:24
Speaker 1: for that was set way back, uh in in the
27:27
Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds here. Um so he was instrumental in
27:31
Speaker 1: helping actually design this thing. Um. It was something that
27:35
Speaker 1: you would see at soda fountains and diners and also um,
27:39
Speaker 1: you know, for those lucky enough to be able to
27:41
Speaker 1: afford it, mornings at home around the breakfast table. And
27:45
Speaker 1: all of this was to promote the Sun Kissed Company.
27:48
Speaker 1: Advertisers from the firm Lord and Thomas atted the campaign
27:52
Speaker 1: line drink an orange, and it was already it literally
27:56
Speaker 1: was such a popular campaign, such a success that it
27:59
Speaker 1: started to be hot on the tails of Coca Cola
28:02
Speaker 1: as the most popular drink in the country. Yes, so naturally,
28:05
Speaker 1: Don Francisco is the guy you go to if you
28:09
Speaker 1: need to move some lemons. He has proven success with oranges,
28:14
Speaker 1: and Francisco was a noted optimist, right, but even he
28:19
Speaker 1: was cautious about the idea of selling lemons. He specifically said,
28:24
Speaker 1: with lemons and appealed to the appetite is difficult. He
28:28
Speaker 1: also thought they were ugly. Literally, he thought it was
28:32
Speaker 1: just from an advertising standpoint, a tall order a tall
28:37
Speaker 1: glass of orange juice to try and make lemons look
28:40
Speaker 1: visually appealing. So instead of saying, you know, instead of
28:44
Speaker 1: pretending that people like the taste of lemons, they went
28:48
Speaker 1: with the tagline lemons for usefulness, so practical. I know,
28:55
Speaker 1: you know, it makes me wonder. Longtime listeners, you'll remember
29:00
Speaker 1: a while back, uh I alluded to getting a jar
29:04
Speaker 1: vegemite for the first time, and I was wondering how
29:06
Speaker 1: people advertise that. How do you market yeast extract? And
29:11
Speaker 1: I guess you can sell anything if you're Don Francisco,
29:14
Speaker 1: because he started off small. He said, okay, ask for
29:18
Speaker 1: a slice of lemon with your tea. If you want
29:20
Speaker 1: to be classy, get a wedge with your vegetables. And
29:24
Speaker 1: he said lemons are also healthy, or he said, let's
29:30
Speaker 1: let's give people the idea that lemons are healthy, but
29:33
Speaker 1: let's never specifically say that they should be considered medicinal.
29:38
Speaker 1: Let's just you know, associate them with healthy things like
29:42
Speaker 1: tea and vegetables. And he was pitching these ideas for
29:46
Speaker 1: selling lemons just months before the rise of the Spanish flute.
29:52
Speaker 1: Perfect timing, and Ben, we know this from like doing
29:54
Speaker 1: ads and stuff and not mentioning anything specifically. But a
29:57
Speaker 1: lot of times they'll be like you know, lines and
29:59
Speaker 1: the ad cop that say, do not make any claims
30:02
Speaker 1: about the healthfulness of this product or whatever, or don't
30:06
Speaker 1: say that it will like fix whatever problem it might be,
30:10
Speaker 1: intimating that it could help you with. But you know,
30:13
Speaker 1: making medical claims a big deal in advertising. And I'm
30:16
Speaker 1: sure the rules were a little more laxed back then.
30:18
Speaker 1: But um pretty smart that that he saw that that
30:21
Speaker 1: was probably the safest way to keep from getting in
30:24
Speaker 1: trouble with the FDA, which by the way, was established
30:26
Speaker 1: in nineteen o six, so definitely a thing um But yeah,
30:31
Speaker 1: it's true. And you know, I think of lemons is
30:32
Speaker 1: adding a little bit of zest, a little bit of refreshment.
30:35
Speaker 1: But this idea that they could be healthful really took
30:39
Speaker 1: off like wildfire when the Spanish flu kicked in because
30:42
Speaker 1: you couldn't keep lemons on the shelves. Yeah, they went
30:46
Speaker 1: from one of the least popular citrus products to the
30:52
Speaker 1: toilet paper or the disinfectant wipes or the hand sanitizer
30:56
Speaker 1: of the day. People just couldn't find lemons in stores.
31:01
Speaker 1: They knew that thousands of people were dying from the
31:04
Speaker 1: Spanish flu, like one thousand people have died of the
31:07
Speaker 1: flu in Boston alone in September of nineteen eighteen. So
31:13
Speaker 1: if you could find lemons, their price would be sky high.
31:17
Speaker 1: People were hoarding lemons the way that people were hoarding
31:21
Speaker 1: toilet paper in the early days of the coronavirus pandemic.
31:25
Speaker 1: And here's the thing, no one was exactly sure why.
31:30
Speaker 1: There was a rumor, kind of an ad campaign gone
31:33
Speaker 1: rogue that said lemons could be a remedy for the flu.
31:38
Speaker 1: As well as get this a prophylactic. Eventually, at least
31:44
Speaker 1: in New York, the Federal Food Board had to step
31:47
Speaker 1: in to stop the price gouging. Like people were becoming
31:52
Speaker 1: lemon tie coons. Yea, and then um, you know, there
31:56
Speaker 1: were some things that had already been popular, like warm lemonade. Um.
32:00
Speaker 1: While it certainly wasn't encouraged by medical professionals as a cure,
32:05
Speaker 1: but it certainly was like more of like a remedy,
32:07
Speaker 1: like have some cameramel tea, drink some hot tea with lemon,
32:11
Speaker 1: you know, that'll make your throat feel better. It's sort
32:13
Speaker 1: of like more of a mind over matter thing. And
32:15
Speaker 1: at this point, when they don't have a cure, um,
32:17
Speaker 1: they're gonna do whatever they can to make people feel better.
32:19
Speaker 1: At the very least they're staying hydrated. But then things
32:22
Speaker 1: kind of took a weird turn. And I love this
32:24
Speaker 1: this headline from the l A Herald from October twenty three.
32:31
Speaker 1: Lemon sucking now hailed by science as influenza cure and
32:34
Speaker 1: it's good for complexions to declare high medical authorities. Do
32:38
Speaker 1: you feel the flu suck lebons? Have you the flu
32:41
Speaker 1: suck lebons? This is the latest of re advice from
32:44
Speaker 1: the wisest heads regarding the prevailing depodemic in the United States.
32:48
Speaker 1: If this suggestion had come from the order of a
32:50
Speaker 1: large lembing grove, it might have been taken with a
32:53
Speaker 1: proverbial grade of salt. But since it came from high
32:56
Speaker 1: medical authorities not interested in lembing growing, the Chamber of
33:00
Speaker 1: Commerce has accepted the responsibility of passing all the good news,
33:05
Speaker 1: and it even wraps up with this if the lemon
33:07
Speaker 1: runs true to reputation, the problem of eradicating the epidemic
33:12
Speaker 1: in southern California should not be difficult, as all the
33:15
Speaker 1: lemons grow in the United States commercially are produced in California.
33:19
Speaker 1: The crop will be approximately eight thousand cars this year,
33:24
Speaker 1: which is about of the normal consumption of the United
33:28
Speaker 1: States and Canada. Cars. Ben Yeah, cars would be a
33:34
Speaker 1: cargo term. At that point, I imagine, oh got you,
33:37
Speaker 1: I got you, like container, And they were bragging. If
33:40
Speaker 1: you look at the context, this paper is bragging a bit.
33:44
Speaker 1: They're saying, essentially, we have all this toilet paper, right
33:49
Speaker 1: because this is the thing people are hoarding. They're not
33:53
Speaker 1: alone in October of paper called the deming Graphic published
33:59
Speaker 1: a similar report with the lovely title and the flu
34:03
Speaker 1: a lemon. Spanish influenza doesn't like lemons. Lemons are said
34:07
Speaker 1: to be flu foods. I love the I love flu foes.
34:11
Speaker 1: Let's just I'm gonna start saying that. Um. Yeah, and
34:16
Speaker 1: you know it even spread to Europe, right Uh, Europeans
34:19
Speaker 1: who were affected by the flu started getting into lemon
34:24
Speaker 1: treatments as well. If that spread as far as really
34:27
Speaker 1: the government in Rome um was actually pushing for this
34:32
Speaker 1: as being like a really good treatment. And this is
34:35
Speaker 1: one of these things too where it's like, if you're desperate,
34:37
Speaker 1: you don't have a cure. I can understand how this
34:40
Speaker 1: is something that governments would get behind. I mean, is
34:42
Speaker 1: it dangerous? No? Is it false? Hope? Perhaps? Sure? Is
34:48
Speaker 1: it keeping people from totally losing their minds? And also
34:51
Speaker 1: you know, making them hydrated? And I think that's probably okay,
34:55
Speaker 1: but certainly was good for the lemon industry. What's interesting
35:04
Speaker 1: too about this particular report from the Demo Graphic is
35:08
Speaker 1: that they include a PostScript where they say, Okay, if
35:12
Speaker 1: you can't get lemons, you can also use onions. They
35:16
Speaker 1: note that a lot of people who had recovered from
35:19
Speaker 1: the Spanish Flu credited the consumption of onions in multiple
35:24
Speaker 1: forms with their recovery and success. It's interesting because they're
35:29
Speaker 1: kind of they're saying lemons are the best, but we
35:32
Speaker 1: know not everyone can get them, so an onion is
35:36
Speaker 1: also acceptable. But to your point, Noel, Uh, neither of
35:39
Speaker 1: these were proven to actually combat the flu. Yeah. True.
35:44
Speaker 1: I think I don't think any of the of the
35:46
Speaker 1: remedies that we've discussed today we're actually effective in any way,
35:51
Speaker 1: shape or form other than that kind of placebo effect,
35:53
Speaker 1: which we know can absolutely be powerful. Uh So where
35:57
Speaker 1: does that leave us, Ben, Well, if you are like
36:00
Speaker 1: many people listening today, this leaves you with some lemons
36:05
Speaker 1: in a bowl on your counter or in your fridge.
36:08
Speaker 1: To your earlier point, Noel, the pandemic and specifically the
36:12
Speaker 1: advertising that became propaganda about the lemon, propelled it from
36:18
Speaker 1: being a luxury good, something that you might on average
36:22
Speaker 1: have a baker's dozen of per year, to a staple
36:26
Speaker 1: in the pantry, something that was considered for a while
36:29
Speaker 1: as basic as flour or sugar or oil you know
36:35
Speaker 1: what I mean, olive oil or vegetable oil. I mean
36:38
Speaker 1: not kerosene. That's just for sugarcubes for sure, And then
36:43
Speaker 1: I know you're a chef as well. Um. I love
36:46
Speaker 1: using lemon zest in, like in pasta dishes or in
36:50
Speaker 1: anything to kind of brighten up the flavor. A nice
36:52
Speaker 1: squeeze of lemon on some rice maybe or some vegetables.
36:56
Speaker 1: I mean, it really is a great thing to have around,
36:58
Speaker 1: um for cooking or bacon. Agreed. I made some uh
37:02
Speaker 1: preserved lemons one time. Have you guys ever tried that?
37:06
Speaker 1: Whoa is that? Where you like with? How do you what? What?
37:09
Speaker 1: What is the suspension? I guess? Or how do you
37:11
Speaker 1: how do you do this? I'm fascinating. Well, I ended
37:13
Speaker 1: up covering them with salt. I can't remember the specifics
37:17
Speaker 1: of the recipe right now, but I I got obsessed.
37:20
Speaker 1: I don't know if this has ever happened to anybody else,
37:23
Speaker 1: Please let me know on social media. But have you
37:26
Speaker 1: guys ever been in this situation where you get a
37:30
Speaker 1: massive amount of some sort of specific produce or something.
37:34
Speaker 1: I I ended up with like eight pounds of lemons
37:37
Speaker 1: one time. I had no idea what to do with them,
37:39
Speaker 1: so I preserved them. It's a great idea. I found
37:42
Speaker 1: a recipe right here where you can use it in
37:44
Speaker 1: all kinds of sauces or or brazen things or yeah,
37:48
Speaker 1: this is awesome. It's basically just salt and lemon juice
37:52
Speaker 1: and you just put them in a mason jar and
37:53
Speaker 1: that and then you've got your preserved lemons that you
37:56
Speaker 1: can use for a long time. Very cool. I'm gonna
37:58
Speaker 1: give us a try myself. Oh yeah, it's great. And
38:00
Speaker 1: also it's a nice visual for your kitchen or your
38:04
Speaker 1: cooking area. Uh. You know, I don't know about you,
38:07
Speaker 1: but when I see stuff in glass jars in people's kitchens,
38:11
Speaker 1: I think that person has their life together. That's probably
38:14
Speaker 1: really shallow of me, but you know, I don't know.
38:18
Speaker 1: Maybe advertising got to me. But regardless of my opinion
38:22
Speaker 1: of glass jars in kitchens, the pandemic was actually pretty
38:26
Speaker 1: good for California's lemon farmers. Yes. Uh, they they took
38:31
Speaker 1: a pandemic and made it into pandemonade. As I've been
38:36
Speaker 1: saving that one for them for the whole episode. But
38:38
Speaker 1: I will just leave that right there, and I think
38:41
Speaker 1: we can probably leave you right here, fair listeners. What
38:44
Speaker 1: do you think, Ben, Yeah, we've discovered that the eighteen
38:49
Speaker 1: Spanish flu pandemic led to the rise of the lemon.
38:55
Speaker 1: But we should also I think mentioned Don Francisco, the
39:00
Speaker 1: irrepressible optimist, the advertising visionary who ushered the lemon into
39:06
Speaker 1: mainstream American homes. He envisioned the lemon going even further.
39:13
Speaker 1: He was talking about merchandizing. He said, Look, let's not
39:16
Speaker 1: stop with the flu Let's talk about lemon pie. Let's
39:20
Speaker 1: talk about lemon shampoo. Let's let's use lemons as a
39:23
Speaker 1: fish garnish. Let's use lemons to scour pots and pans. Like.
39:28
Speaker 1: At this point, he's basically the oxy clean guy. What
39:31
Speaker 1: was that guy's name? You know what I'm talking about?
39:33
Speaker 1: Was that Ronco or no ron I don't know. He's
39:37
Speaker 1: the senat and forget it, rotisserie chicken guy. But Billy Mays,
39:42
Speaker 1: that's Billy Mays. That's the one r I p At
39:46
Speaker 1: least he didn't live to see his beloved oxy clean
39:50
Speaker 1: uh accidentally become a Bizarro home remedy for COVID nineteen.
39:54
Speaker 1: Way to bring it back around, Yeah, because history may
39:57
Speaker 1: not repeat, but it sure does seem to rhyme at times.
40:02
Speaker 1: You know, this episode is making me increasingly pro lemon.
40:06
Speaker 1: I don't know about you guys, But I'm not the
40:08
Speaker 1: kind of person who immediately thinks of lemons when they're
40:11
Speaker 1: hungry or wanting to snack. That's not unusual, right, most
40:15
Speaker 1: people are walking by somewhere getting a little famished and thinking, hmm,
40:20
Speaker 1: I sure could use a fresh lemon. Right? You know
40:23
Speaker 1: that lyric? And Uh, there's the first song off of
40:26
Speaker 1: the Radiohead album kid A. It's called Everything in Its
40:29
Speaker 1: Right Place. There's a lyric in that. For the longest
40:31
Speaker 1: time I couldn't understand because he's Tom York. But he
40:34
Speaker 1: goes yesterday I walk up suck and a lamon. Yesterday
40:40
Speaker 1: woke up sucking and lamon in the way today I
40:44
Speaker 1: woke up sucking a lemon. I think that's a reference
40:46
Speaker 1: to the flu pandemic. That's my theory. I can neither
40:50
Speaker 1: confirm nor deny that. But he is saying he woke
40:52
Speaker 1: up yesterday sucking a lemon. I think you're right. I mean,
40:56
Speaker 1: it's pretty clear this is something that Casey told me
40:59
Speaker 1: off air. It's pretty clear that most of Radioheads discography
41:04
Speaker 1: is inspired by the nineteen eighteen Spanish flu epidemic. Casey,
41:08
Speaker 1: can you confirm that? Yeah, A few people realize this,
41:10
Speaker 1: but your your spot on done Casey on the case.
41:15
Speaker 1: I just wanted to add that the lyrics on that album,
41:18
Speaker 1: I don't think it's the case with every song, because
41:19
Speaker 1: some songs pre date the kid A sessions. But the
41:23
Speaker 1: ones that were kind of written in that period, Tom
41:26
Speaker 1: York just had like fragments of lyrics in a hat,
41:28
Speaker 1: and sometimes he would just draw them out of the
41:30
Speaker 1: hat and that would kind of be his process for
41:33
Speaker 1: writing the song. So I always wonder if Yesterday I
41:35
Speaker 1: woke up sucking a lemon was one of those trips
41:37
Speaker 1: of paper that he just kind of drew out and
41:39
Speaker 1: paired it with that particular song. I never knew that.
41:42
Speaker 1: And that is a technique made famous by David Bowie
41:46
Speaker 1: and Brian Eno uh like like the cut up method,
41:49
Speaker 1: and also will william S Burrows. For a lot of
41:52
Speaker 1: his weirder books, he just threw through pieces of paper
41:55
Speaker 1: up in the air and assembled them in some semblance
41:57
Speaker 1: of of of narrative his wait, Wait, wait, as opposed
42:02
Speaker 1: to his normal books, yes, exactly right. As opposed to
42:07
Speaker 1: like modestly clothed lunch o, Ben, you had you had
42:14
Speaker 1: me a modestly clothed um. Well, I think this has
42:17
Speaker 1: been fun and educational and it's interesting to see all
42:20
Speaker 1: these parallels between uh, you know, the nine epidemic and
42:24
Speaker 1: the one we're going through right now. I hope everyone's
42:26
Speaker 1: staying home, stands safe and uh and being well. Um.
42:30
Speaker 1: Huge thanks to super producer Casey Pegram, as always, Alex
42:33
Speaker 1: Williams who composed our theme. Christopher hasiotis here in spirit
42:36
Speaker 1: and big thanks of course as always to Gaye Bluesier.
42:40
Speaker 1: A personal heartfelt thank you to our own big Lemon,
42:46
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, a k a. The Quister. He's sort of
42:50
Speaker 1: like he's he's he's like a human uh lemon squeeze
42:53
Speaker 1: in like an open cut, that is how he describes
42:56
Speaker 1: himself on social media. And of course, big big thanks
43:02
Speaker 1: to the lemon itself, whether preserved, whether as a wedge
43:07
Speaker 1: with your green vegetables or as a I don't know, Casey,
43:12
Speaker 1: how do you guys like to cook with lemons? Really,
43:15
Speaker 1: just a nice little squeeze here and there, a little
43:17
Speaker 1: bit of a zest of the skin. Um, that's what
43:20
Speaker 1: really makes the flavor last. The lemon juice flavor will
43:23
Speaker 1: kind of cook out if you do it too early
43:25
Speaker 1: in the process. But that zest is a lot more potent.
43:27
Speaker 1: I think I've got to go get a glass jar.
43:30
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts for
43:39
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
43:42
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.