Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / Sacha OUT for the Boks?! URC Semis + Super Rugby Playoffs | Remembering Jonah

Transcript

Sacha OUT for the Boks?! URC Semis + Super Rugby Playoffs | Remembering Jonah · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

0:00
Victor, you must be worried. Your players are dropping like flies, Sasha with a high ankle injury.
0:05
Yeah.
0:06
Grand Williams is out, Hendrix is out, Krapi is out,
0:09
whoever's Ryan has out, so they took full all our out.
0:12
Are we down in New Zealand that we're going to have to expect a new style of Springbok?
0:17
Right, B?
0:18
I don't think we'll go away from our DNA, but we do have players that I think,
0:22
Gracie, put them out, they say, listen, if you see something I ever go.
0:27
You got to remember that when Jono was getting ready for the World Cup,
0:30
there was no interest in him whatsoever.
0:32
It was hard, but I just swallowed it, and I had to just go back to the Dungeons and start working a bit harder.
0:39
It was sad for me as well because I saw this young man at times really struggling with the fame.
0:46
Okay, Victor, who's going to win the semi-finals?
0:49
Oh, that's a difficult question.
0:50
Right, good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you are.
0:59
Welcome to Rugby Rivals, we've got obviously the great Victor Matfield and the
1:04
quite good Sir John Cohen.
1:07
Victor, you must be worried, your players are dropping like flies,
1:10
Sasha with a high ankle injury.
1:13
Yeah, I must say when it happened on Saturday, they didn't look that bad,
1:18
but we were probably exactly what's going on this morning.
1:22
But I mean, that's rugby, and I think that's why
1:26
Gracie worked so hard to make sure there's a lot of depth.
1:31
There's a lot of people that can step in.
1:33
It's not bad to have Andre Polard,
1:35
Oomani, Levo, coming in full Sasha, that helps quite a bit.
1:39
I mean, Andre is playing fantastic rugby for the Bulls at the moment.
1:42
So, yeah, let's see, and I mean, it's still a year out from the World Cup.
1:48
I'd rather take all the injuries this year than next year.
1:53
You're not worried about your Blacks Victor.
1:55
You're not worried about the rivalry tour.
1:56
No, I'm just thinking, why do you mean?
2:00
You're not worried about it.
2:01
Do we need to be?
2:02
Do we need to be?
2:03
Yeah, you're doing, mate.
2:04
You're doing.
2:05
And now, what about your Bulls, mate?
2:07
How good?
2:09
How many halfbacks do you have over there?
2:11
Now, what was the, because I was listening to the English commentary.
2:13
What's the name of your Bulls halfback?
2:15
School three-tron.
2:16
Yeah, I mean, Ambrose Bookbeer has been outstanding the whole year.
2:20
And I mean, there was quite a lot of unhappiness
2:24
with the first two alignment camps he wasn't there.
2:28
And everyone said, out came in, not here.
2:30
They, because he's probably the number one
2:33
lining South Africa at the moment.
2:35
But I mean, if you look at the stromals,
2:37
Grant Williams, the South, Hendrixes,
2:39
the South,
2:41
Krapi, the South.
2:42
So all the Quibbers, Ryan, the South,
2:44
so they took full all our out.
2:46
But I mean, Ambrose is playing such great rugby.
2:49
He played for the Springboks four, five years ago.
2:52
He went through a dip, but this last season,
2:55
he's just so outstanding.
2:56
I mean, scoring tries from everywhere.
2:58
His kicking game is on point.
3:01
And I mean, he's always dangerous around the truck.
3:05
Yeah, I mean, I thought he was a winner
3:07
when he took off from that long-range try.
3:10
He just flew.
3:10
I thought, bloody hell, how many up actually got over there?
3:13
They showed, they showed this year a few times
3:17
where the guys really opened it up.
3:19
And I think he's like the second fastest,
3:21
they've measured so far this year.
3:23
So yeah, no, he's got a lot of speed.
3:26
I wonder if even Grant Williams got it,
3:28
should be pretty close.
3:30
And both of them are nice.
3:31
So yeah, are we down in New Zealand?
3:35
Are we going to have to expect a new style of Springbok?
3:40
rugby because, you know, you're sort of
3:45
the way that you play under pressure, you know,
3:48
high balls, really physically forward play.
3:51
But your your provincial sides are playing a little bit more
3:55
like super rugby side, I would say.
3:57
You know, a bit more expansive.
3:58
In fact, I think European rugby's gone a bit more expansive.
4:02
Yeah, I think that it depends where you play.
4:05
What the situation is.
4:08
I think we'll never go away from our DNA.
4:12
I mean, if you look at the Springboks,
4:14
forward dominance, it's very important set piece.
4:17
I mean, our scrum, if you look at all our teams,
4:20
we're getting so many penalties from the scrum.
4:22
And that gives us fuel position and territory.
4:26
I actually thought the balls in that first off,
4:28
at some stage, there was two lineouts where they went for the four men.
4:32
Wanted to play both of them turnovers and months to school.
4:36
Where I thought, listen, we're dominating so much up front.
4:39
Why are we going away?
4:40
Just go to a six or a five-man lineout,
4:42
go to the mall, get another penalty,
4:44
go to the corner, use your forwards again.
4:47
So I think a guy like Russy, of course,
4:50
we started with a very conservative game,
4:53
kicking game, very defensive mindset and only playing off turnovers.
4:59
But just only Brown coming in.
5:01
I mean, with Sasha playing at 10,
5:03
he did give them a bit more freedom,
5:05
but we also saw last year,
5:08
after the one loss against Australia, we pulled it back again.
5:11
So I don't think we'll go away from our DNA,
5:14
but we do have players that I think Russy put them out.
5:18
They say, listen, if you see something I have a go,
5:22
don't be scared to ever go.
5:23
So it's not quite as conservative,
5:26
but I don't think we'll go away from the DNA.
5:30
I think that's why Russy got Tony Brown.
5:32
Really, A Brownie is one of those guys
5:35
that is really creative, really great at what he does.
5:39
And I think if the spring box find that balance
5:42
between the DNA but also that expansive plan,
5:44
I remember last year, I don't know if you agree, Victor,
5:47
but it was clunky at times.
5:48
If you probably lost games because you were trying
5:50
to play that expansive game,
5:52
but not quite getting that balance right.
5:54
So I think once you get that balance right,
5:56
it's going to be a great series.
5:58
I cannot wait.
6:00
It's all about balance and it's about understanding a game.
6:03
Sometimes, I mean, you're not getting that up end.
6:06
And I mean, when you don't get reward for Morley,
6:12
then it's stupid to more because the ball goes to ground.
6:15
They all on their feet and you have to play against the whole line.
6:18
But I mean, if you're more or less working,
6:20
why don't you stay with it?
6:22
I mean, if your scrum is working, why do you play away?
6:24
If you don't get the reward at scrum time,
6:29
then you have to play some quick balls as well
6:31
to make sure those lose forwards.
6:34
Maybe start getting up at the scrum time.
6:37
So it's all about feeling the game and manage it
6:40
and making good decisions.
6:42
Probably time to get rid of the ball, isn't it?
6:43
Yeah, that's taking a very interesting point.
6:48
Do you think the referee is that much more
6:51
influential in the game now than maybe when you play?
6:53
Because so many of the tactics that you're talking about
6:57
are designed around how the referee is going to rule.
7:01
Well, I think when I played Sean Fitzpatrick was the ref,
7:04
but besides that, besides that, I do regard it.
7:08
I think our game, I think our game went played well
7:11
and there's been some really good rugby just lately.
7:15
It's an outstanding game, but it really does depend
7:17
on the interpretation and the quality of the ref.
7:20
You know, when you get the right ref who chooses the penalties
7:23
that he's going to probably enforce in those that he's not
7:27
and the players understand him,
7:29
then the game is really, really good.
7:31
The trouble is that sometimes when the ref might be a little bit
7:34
pedantic, then the game can be really horrible.
7:36
And we've got these extremes at the moment,
7:38
but like the super rugby on the weekend
7:40
and I'll just watch some of that balls game and stuff,
7:44
there's some really good rugby being played
7:46
and it just depends very, very much on the referees.
7:48
And I think to be fair, the referees for what I've seen,
7:51
especially in the Southern Hemisphere,
7:53
have really started to adopt this quick in the game
7:56
up a bit and when it's quickened up,
7:58
I mean, there's been some great super rugby games
8:00
in the last couple of weeks.
8:01
So yeah, I think the referee,
8:03
and this is one of the things I talk about often,
8:05
I don't know what you think, Victor,
8:06
but we've got to take some of the decisions off the referee,
8:10
meaning that, you know, like I keep talking about
8:13
this repeated offense in the 22,
8:15
you know, like three penalties in a row,
8:18
it should be just a point on the school board
8:20
and carry on and something like that
8:21
because there's too many decisions to be made.
8:24
Yeah, I must say, I enjoyed referees like Nigel Owens,
8:28
Jonathan Kaplan, who almost let the game go.
8:32
I mean, there were so many times when someone might have
8:34
hands on at the break down, they get cleaned a second later,
8:38
they don't give the penalty, they let it play on,
8:40
they let it slow.
8:42
You knew you really had to fight to maybe get the turnover or whatever,
8:46
and they love playing advantage as well.
8:49
So I mean, those referees always make for the best games,
8:52
but I mean, the referees do have a special set piece,
8:56
such a big impact.
8:57
I've seen so many times now a special in the URC
9:00
with a South African scrum dominating.
9:02
You get referees the moment they go for it, boom, advantage.
9:06
That gives us opportunity to give our backs a go
9:10
because it's a free go.
9:11
Other referees reset or they say early scrum,
9:14
it goes the other way or a free kick.
9:17
So referees got a big role to play there.
9:20
And then of course, Drassy got something right.
9:22
They're changing the laws at the mall,
9:24
so I think the mall is coming big time.
9:27
So in this last year, you could see a lot of the guys
9:30
when they end up on the wrong side, but they can stay there.
9:34
And you can't play away.
9:35
They're almost in the way of playing from the mall.
9:38
Now they sit, listen, the mall, if you go to the logo,
9:42
it's a pushing competition.
9:43
It's not a pulling competition.
9:44
So those guys that get around, they need to get out.
9:47
So I think the mall is going to be a big weapon again.
9:52
And that's going to allow,
9:54
remember the old days when you get a good mall going,
9:57
it was almost like a eight, nine of the back of the scrum.
10:00
So again, you can play off that, you can play to the blind,
10:04
because those guys on the wrong side
10:06
don't be able to influence the mall any more.
10:08
It's about, it's about time.
10:10
Do you not remember the mall looking at it?
10:12
I was just going to say that the Victor is talking about the mall
10:15
and asking you what you remember,
10:17
because all you remember is getting out of them as quickly as you're
10:19
possibly good.
10:20
Totally.
10:20
So I wouldn't go there, but listen,
10:22
I spent a lifetime looking at them.
10:27
I mean, we, Brian, I've asked for some of these
10:30
most of his tries from malls.
10:31
I mean, if you have a great mall going,
10:33
that's eight, nine, down the blind.
10:36
That's finally, I mean,
10:38
finally, Victor, because actually the mall is illegal
10:41
once those players go offside because they head of the ball.
10:43
So if Russy brought that rule in,
10:46
I'm all for it, because often it's difficult
10:48
to stop with those guys in the middle, right?
10:50
So it should be a fair pushing content.
10:52
I totally agree with that, but what I want to see happen
10:56
is that when it's stopped,
10:58
it's got to be passed straight away, right?
11:00
And the referee should just penalize,
11:03
because then the players will start going,
11:05
shit, I don't want to stop here.
11:06
And they will, what's the right word?
11:09
They will, they will actually start roughing themselves.
11:13
And that's what I like, rather than,
11:14
I'll use it, then five seconds later, it's gone.
11:17
In fact, if it's stopped, again, it's,
11:20
okay, it's like a scrum.
11:21
I mean, the malls should be a weapon,
11:23
because if you mall while,
11:25
they need to put in more numbers to stop it.
11:27
And you don't want to play away from it once it's stopped.
11:30
You actually want to play away from it
11:32
while it's going forward.
11:33
It's like a scrum going forward.
11:34
Everyone is in.
11:36
You get that advantage of eight, nine,
11:38
and for four and a nine,
11:39
this extra space, you've got the blind,
11:41
you've got the open side,
11:42
they need to put numbers in.
11:44
So there's opportunity.
11:45
So I think if you use the mall right,
11:47
there's so many attacking opportunities from it.
11:50
So I love the mall and I'm glad we got those guys
11:53
on the wrong side out of there,
11:54
because now we can play away from it again.
11:57
I mean, in this last year,
11:59
you couldn't play away because those guys
12:01
are behind the guy that got the ball at the back
12:03
with the mall and you can't break out.
12:05
So that just, I mean,
12:07
and how long have we been talking about this?
12:09
This is the problem with World Rugby, right?
12:11
Like it's actually illegal for those players to be offside.
12:15
But I think we've been talking about this for like 10 years
12:18
and finally that rule changed, which is good.
12:20
Like I can't believe I'm believing,
12:22
I can't believe I'm agreeing with you, Victor.
12:25
Let's bring back the mall.
12:26
I love it, Jacob.
12:27
See, I mean, if you coach now again now,
12:30
I think you'll just win trophy, sir.
12:32
We'll think like a South African
12:34
and bring the physicality, bring the mall scrum.
12:37
Then it will be easy.
12:38
Let's not get too carried away here.
12:40
Talking about coaches, Rick,
12:42
that you see one thing, Jacob,
12:45
if you look at the semi-finals of the URC,
12:49
what did you pick up?
12:50
Well, it leads to one.
12:52
The balls looked amazing.
12:55
But about all of that, what did you pick up?
12:57
Oh, I know that.
12:58
I know there's an African coach in every single team.
13:02
See.
13:03
I know that.
13:04
I know that.
13:07
Okay, Victor, who's going to win the semi-finals?
13:11
Oh, that's a difficult question.
13:15
Yeah, I think
13:19
yeah, Langster's going to be very difficult to beat.
13:22
I mean, by the second-based club team,
13:26
in the world at the moment, maybe, I mean,
13:29
I think the Hurricanes can compete with them,
13:31
so I need to throw them.
13:33
I think between the Hurricanes,
13:34
Langster and Bordeaux, they just a step ahead of everyone.
13:38
But you never know.
13:40
I hope, I hope Sasha's not that bad.
13:43
Let's see what's happening.
13:44
Well, I'm hearing it's a high ankle strain
13:48
and it'll be out for several months,
13:49
several weeks, like it'll be much easier.
13:52
Then it's going to be very difficult.
13:54
I'll say Langster's going to win against the Stormers,
13:57
but I do believe the Bulls can go home and beat Glasgow.
14:01
They played them in the quarter-final of the Champions Cup,
14:04
and it was very close.
14:06
They missed two kick-offs.
14:08
They allowed Glasgow with opportunities in the 22,
14:12
which they scored off both.
14:14
So I just think the physicality of this Bulls team
14:17
and that back might pull it through for them.
14:21
So I think we'll see a Langster Bulls final.
14:24
At least, I mean, I was impressed with the Bulls on the weekend.
14:31
I thought they were really dominant.
14:32
I was going to ask you about Super Rugby.
14:34
Super Rugby's been really good.
14:37
Super Rugby's been really good.
14:38
I mean, the Crusaders, I know the Hurricanes,
14:41
for me, have been the pickle year and really physical.
14:43
They just gone off their game.
14:44
They'll wee bit in the last couple of weeks,
14:48
but I still think it's going to be pretty special.
14:50
Crusaders, obviously, with that new stadium,
14:53
unbelievable and playing really good, really good rugby.
14:58
I think for me, the Blues are really inconsistent,
15:01
especially in the last four or five weeks.
15:02
I mean, they were still in that game against the Chiefs at halftime,
15:06
but then it just ran away from it.
15:08
It was like they switched off.
15:11
There was two kicks where there wasn't enough urgency onto the Bull
15:15
and it bounced and they scored twice late.
15:17
But yeah, I think Crusaders going to be hard to beat at home.
15:21
So the Blues got to go down there and try and win that.
15:23
I think the, well, I'd hope the Blues will win,
15:26
but I think the Crusaders will be too strong down there.
15:28
Take a semi-finals, who's the quarterfinals as well?
15:31
That's quarters, yeah.
15:32
Yeah, it's quarters.
15:33
So the Brumbies, I think, got in sixth.
15:36
So one plays six, two plays five.
15:40
So that's the, you know, there's a lot to play for on the weekend.
15:45
So yeah, I think the three best sides at the moment
15:48
are actually the Crusaders, Chiefs and Hurricanes.
15:51
And I think they're all pretty close to Hurricanes.
15:53
I just love when they're on, on their, on form.
15:57
And they've gone off a wee bit.
15:58
And the Crusaders are heading form at the right time.
16:01
And the Blues aren't, yeah.
16:03
If, if the Crusaders in the final, it's very hard to go against them.
16:08
Yeah, I mean, I think just, I mean, Auckland need to do something
16:12
also about their stadium.
16:13
I mean, we either need to pull, even park down and build the,
16:16
build in Christchurch or we need to build something down the waterfront.
16:18
Because, you know, you see the crowds going into that stadium.
16:22
Everyone just tells me it's like the heart of the city now, Victor,
16:24
when you come down next time, you know, you roll out of one stadium in Christchurch
16:29
and you're in town. It's unbelievable.
16:32
And it's just like, I need them.
16:34
You know, you can walk to the stadium and they need it.
16:36
It's got a roof on it.
16:37
And it's just, I think it's really, really important for the fan.
16:39
You know, it's just a great experience.
16:41
I mean, it embark is iconic.
16:43
It'll be very sad to do that as well.
16:46
Oh, we don't have to move it.
16:47
Like, if they don't want to move it and there's a whole lot of issues going on
16:50
internally with, you know, with Eden Park, that's okay.
16:53
If you want to leave it there, that's fine.
16:55
But just pull it down and build a decent stadium.
16:58
That's all I'm saying.
16:58
Just pull it down, put a roof on it.
17:00
You know, with a, with a largest city in New Zealand
17:04
and we should have a world-class stadium.
17:07
And, you know, I think that's what we need to do.
17:10
If they don't want to leave Eden Park, okay, I'll get it.
17:13
But at least rebuild it.
17:14
Do they still have Victor, the, I remember when the Orbex played in Durban.
17:20
There was a nightclub in the stadium.
17:23
Yeah, it's just, it's just behind, actually.
17:26
Yeah, sorry, I'd never wait there, but I just, I think it's the beautiful.
17:29
So, and the old day was still actually.
17:31
So, all the cars park, these about three fields around Durban,
17:37
the cars park there, they have a Lecker barbecue, a briar like we call it.
17:41
Little, a lot of clippies and coke, although it's Durban,
17:44
I don't know what they do in Victoria, it will be clippies and coke.
17:46
But, yeah, the new stadium process in Cape Town.
17:49
The Cape Town stadium looking, I love Newlands.
17:52
Newlands was iconic.
17:54
I mean, they're driving JK.
17:55
You must have done it.
17:57
We had small street driving to Newlands.
17:59
I mean, that was a, for me, that was the best drive to a stadium ever.
18:03
But this new stadium in Cape Town, I mean, you're at the waterfront.
18:07
Everyone is having lunch there before they
18:10
walk there afterwards.
18:11
They walk back all the restaurants as their pubs are there.
18:16
I mean, it's just unbelievable.
18:18
So, the people are really enjoying that New Cape Town stadium.
18:21
And it, I mean, it's...
18:22
I think the thing I remember the most, Victor, about,
18:26
you know, 92 was running into Alice Park, and there was silence.
18:31
You know, I can still get, I still get, you know,
18:35
here's on the back of my neck, because not very often,
18:37
you run into a stadium in this solid,
18:39
and there was absolute silence.
18:41
It was like, oh, wow, unbelievable.
18:43
But I mean, you're talking about Eden Park.
18:46
We actually got the same problem with Alice Park.
18:48
Alice Park needs to be moved, or, I mean, to get to Alice Park,
18:52
people don't want to park the, you're not safe going there.
18:56
And I mean, the Lions, you can see it in the Lions play of Transval.
19:04
This is no one going to the stadium because they don't feel safe.
19:07
It's so difficult to get there.
19:08
I mean, it's an old stadium.
19:11
So, sometimes, it's hard.
19:13
I mean, with Newlands, I mean, it's an iconic stadium.
19:17
I mean, Cape Town Stadium is so much better.
19:19
I think with Alice Park, we're pretty much in the same situation where
19:24
we need to get rid of it.
19:25
We need to, but it's somewhere else in Joe's work,
19:27
where it's easy to get to, where it's safe to get to.
19:30
And that's top...
19:32
Yeah, that's a top stadium.
19:33
As my dad would say, Victor, you can't put lipstick on a peg.
19:37
Yeah.
19:39
Very true.
19:39
It's good that you're both town planning experts as well as rugby experts,
19:43
so that's, that's good.
19:44
I mean...
19:46
I remember...
19:46
Ricardo, Ricardo, we're here for the fanmeat.
19:49
We're here for the fanmeat.
19:50
I remember, actually, in 92 after that first game against Natal.
19:57
When you were at the back of the back seat,
19:59
and you ordered the bus to stop, and all the all blacks got out
20:03
and spent a couple of hours just wandering around the brides.
20:07
Yeah, I thought that was really, really important at the time.
20:09
I mean, it was a, it was a monumental time in the history of South Africa.
20:14
And South Africa is a country, but also New Zealand,
20:18
you know, going back there after, after the bands.
20:21
And like for me, letting the players go out and be part of those
20:26
but eyes was fundamental because that's what South Africa is all about.
20:30
And the people were amazing.
20:32
The people were amazing, like we walked amongst them.
20:35
You probably, I don't know if you could do it now, Victor,
20:37
just because of the different fight.
20:39
I think you can.
20:40
I mean, you know what?
20:41
I mean, people will brew the all blacks.
20:43
But once, I mean, the all blacks get out, they will just love them.
20:46
They will do anything for them because they actually do love them.
20:49
One of the funniest story ever is we played
20:53
Wales and Cardiff, and we just beat them.
20:56
I think they stay kind of out of town.
20:58
So we had the function afterwards, and as we got into our bus,
21:02
Andy Bell just got on to our bus, and we were like, what the hell is it now?
21:05
He's coming with us.
21:06
He's going to party with us.
21:07
He's not going with his team.
21:09
And he was getting in the cars.
21:10
He went to the hotel.
21:13
Yeah, I mean, that's those are good times.
21:16
Yeah, the bright, the bride was amazing.
21:17
Walking through that, you know, any, any cylinders,
21:20
if you're going to South Africa, it's just the most amazing thing to do.
21:24
I mean, I don't think I'd do a very good bride.
21:27
That I think is not really, people aren't really churned into this properly,
21:32
but you know, we've got this rivalry tour coming up,
21:34
and we're all talking about the rivalry,
21:37
but we forget the word tour.
21:38
And what makes this special is not the all blacks playing South Africa,
21:41
because basically they do that every year.
21:43
What makes this special is the all blacks are coming to South Africa to tour,
21:47
to do an old-fashioned tour, playing provincial teams,
21:50
and that's what makes this year special.
21:53
I'm looking forward to those mid-week games.
21:56
I promise you, I mean, having the bulls, having the lions,
22:00
having the stormers, playing against the all blacks,
22:02
there's a lot of cars that would never get that opportunity.
22:06
And I think maybe, Jake, I mean, hopefully, I think you guys are over.
22:10
I think those Wednesday games are just as important.
22:13
We need to be at that games.
22:14
We need to have lucky functions, talk to the locals.
22:18
I think it's going to be amazing.
22:20
You know, one of the things I'm most proud of,
22:23
and this is probably my ego coming out,
22:25
but it frustrates me sometimes, because when people
22:30
sort of announce my all black sort of career,
22:33
they say 63 tests, but I played 96 games.
22:38
And those mid-week games were some of the hardest games of my life,
22:42
because often, you know, in those days,
22:44
would take three wingers, so there's only 26 on tour.
22:48
But not only that, sometimes you'd have to play yourself
22:51
back into the test match, you know,
22:52
because you'd have to play on a Wednesday night
22:55
against the French selection.
22:56
And I remember up in Blum Fontaine,
23:00
and one of the guys got injured, one of one of the guys,
23:05
you know, from who we were playing in Blum Fontaine,
23:07
but he nodded in truss, truss, truss, parlor, whatever it was.
23:09
Hey, pre-state, yeah, pre-state.
23:13
And this guy got injured, and he, I remember,
23:16
walking past the medical room, and he said,
23:18
can I have your, can I have your jersey, JK,
23:20
and I couldn't give the mid-week jerseys away?
23:22
I've felt, I still feel bad about it, like, 30 odd years ago.
23:25
But it was so important, and those stands,
23:27
they're right over here, it was just,
23:29
it's the greatest thing ever,
23:30
but also, it's the greatest thing for you as a player,
23:32
because, you know, when you look at last November,
23:35
how do you play yourself in if there's not mid-week,
23:38
right, and these guys can play themselves in the test match.
23:41
It's going to be difficult to manage,
23:42
but hey, how good?
23:44
Yeah, but I mean, 2009 against British ice lions,
23:47
I mean, that pool steam we had at that stage,
23:50
I would have loved to get an opportunity with that pool steam
23:54
to take on the lions.
23:56
I think we would have given them a proper go,
24:00
probably be a thing.
24:02
Well, it was my, yeah, it was my first international.
24:04
That would have been unbelievable.
24:05
And unfortunately, they didn't want us to play the spring box,
24:09
so, but I just think you can play with a full pool steam
24:12
or a full pool, no teams in a national side.
24:14
Yeah, it would be great.
24:16
In 1983, Victor was my third ever game for Auckland.
24:20
We played the British ice lions at Eden Park.
24:24
It was like midweek, Wednesday afternoon at 230.
24:26
It was so, I mean, and for me, I was young man, I was 18,
24:30
you know, to play against those guys.
24:32
I remember Clive Woodwood was playing center, you know?
24:35
Things like this is so good.
24:37
I'll be very well.
24:38
Wait, I cannot wait, it's just going to be unbelievable.
24:40
And tough.
24:42
Oh, yeah.
24:43
I can't believe they're old, you are J.K.
24:44
God, it's like Woodwood.
24:46
You got no mirrors in your house, Ricardo.
24:50
Actually, no, I don't, and that's a good thing,
24:53
but I do have my old hard drives,
24:55
and I was just going through them the other day,
24:57
just going through some old stuff that, you know,
25:00
you and I had done together like Good the Bad and the Rugby
25:02
and some of the documentaries.
25:04
And I found this, I didn't even remember doing it,
25:08
but I had this interview with Jonah
25:10
that I did when I was the media liaison guy in 95,
25:14
and he got so much media attention
25:16
that Colin Meads and Brian Lahore decided
25:18
that he needed to stop doing interviews,
25:20
because he was just getting swamped.
25:22
So I did an interview with him in my hotel room
25:25
and just handed it out to all the media,
25:28
so at least they had something, you know,
25:30
it was like a press kit.
25:31
And I found it the other day,
25:32
so I just wanted to play you a little bit of it,
25:34
because you've got to remember
25:36
that when Jonah was in the 95 World Cup,
25:39
he hadn't had a great 94,
25:40
and he actually initially missed the training squad
25:43
for that World Cup, so he wasn't supposed,
25:45
wasn't going to be part of it.
25:46
And then when he was getting ready for the World Cup,
25:50
there was no interest in him whatsoever.
25:53
In fact, so much so that before the Irish game,
25:55
which was the first game,
25:56
him and I went down to do a press conference
25:59
and no one showed up,
26:00
right no one showed up,
26:01
and so he went to McDonald's.
26:02
But then after he destroyed Ireland and Wales,
26:07
I went nuts and it was like dealing with a pop star.
26:10
But I found this interview,
26:11
and just from look how young he is,
26:13
this is how young he was,
26:14
and this is him talking about not being in the team
26:18
in the first thinking.
26:19
It was high,
26:21
but I had to swallow it,
26:22
and had to just go back to the dungeon,
26:25
just start working a bit harder,
26:27
and I was lucky that I got the break
26:29
with John Timmy going to lead,
26:33
and then it was just no tuning back from there,
26:36
and it just carried on,
26:37
and I just kept on pushing and pushing.
26:39
So, you know, they had no other answer,
26:42
perhaps I'm trying to choose him.
26:45
And there was that he fell down ahead in my mind,
26:47
then I wanted to be in South Africa,
26:50
and I wanted to be in the 26th.
26:53
I learnt a lot of things off JK,
26:55
and you know,
26:57
I'll take my hat off to him.
26:58
You know, he's a great guy.
27:00
You know, he was great with young players.
27:04
He actually helped me a lot.
27:06
I try to pick it as brains, try to learn a lot of things,
27:09
and the things that I picked out of his brains
27:11
is what I'm doing at the moment,
27:13
and you know, it's helped me,
27:14
and you can't get any better than JK as a winger.
27:19
You know, he was classed as either one of the best,
27:22
or the D best winger in the world.
27:24
Well done, JK.
27:26
Well, may rest in peace, mate.
27:28
I mean, I think the hardest thing,
27:29
what people don't realise,
27:30
Victor is that, like, he was a schoolboy number eight.
27:34
Right?
27:35
And then he leaves school,
27:37
and they put him on the wing now.
27:38
You can laugh all you like at wingers and their defences.
27:42
Like, we don't have to make a lot of tackles,
27:44
but our angles and our ability to read defences
27:48
and understand how deep to stay to cut the kickoff
27:52
and then come forward defensively.
27:54
It's not easy to learn,
27:55
and, you know, he came from number eight young man,
27:58
and in 94, like you said, Ricardo,
28:01
you know, he was struggling with that positional play.
28:04
And I think especially the French in 94,
28:06
if you watch that game, they scored,
28:08
you know, they call it the try from the end of the earth.
28:10
And it was absolutely amazing,
28:11
but they actually manipulated Jonas in experience at that time.
28:16
And so, you know, for me as an elder,
28:19
what I needed to be able to do is actually just help him positionally.
28:24
But I remember Victor the first time,
28:25
the first time I'm lying in bed,
28:27
and, you know, I didn't know him either.
28:29
He was sort of a no one would heard about this young guy
28:31
that's gone from number eight to wing.
28:33
He walked into my room, and back then I wouldn't room with you forwards, mate.
28:38
Like, I was old enough, so I'm not really ready forwards.
28:41
You know, they go to the toilet, leave the door open,
28:43
and want to talk to you, but let him miss you,
28:44
get them down there, and he walked in.
28:48
And I said, mate, Buffy is down the hall, you know.
28:50
I don't room with forwards.
28:51
He said, I know, bro,
28:53
I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a winger that I was shit.
28:56
Anyway, we go out and back then, believe it or not,
29:00
they started doing testing.
29:01
So, Laurie Mainz had brought in testing.
29:03
We walked out, he won the 70-metre sprint,
29:05
one 100-metre sprint, we were walking back,
29:07
and you know, those basketball poles
29:09
that you guys used to have to practice jumping?
29:12
There was one and two left, and he said,
29:14
oh, hey, hey, bro, hey, bro.
29:16
And I didn't, like, back then, we'd call everyone, mate.
29:18
I didn't know he was talking to me,
29:19
and I said, well, you're talking to me,
29:20
he said, you see, what's that, bro?
29:21
I said, oh, that's the buffet, it's jump pole.
29:23
And he jumped and got one and two, right?
29:26
Just off his feet.
29:27
And then he got home, and he pulled off his jersey,
29:30
and like, he was cut, you know.
29:32
I said, shit, mate, what, how much do you weigh?
29:35
He said, oh, 180 kilos.
29:38
You know, what I thought?
29:38
Victor?
29:39
Time to retire.
29:41
Yes, it's the right time.
29:43
It's so interesting, I mean,
29:44
you talk about 95, and for me, it feels like yesterday.
29:49
And we actually had breakfast at the morning
29:52
where Joe Stransky was as well.
29:55
And he talked about their pre-work-up camp
29:58
before they selected the last few.
30:00
Even Nas Brutta, Uli Schmidt, were in the training squad,
30:04
because I mean, we didn't have those guys
30:05
with legends in their time.
30:07
And even those guys, pitch up,
30:09
get Chris to just brought them in to see if they can
30:11
maybe still make it.
30:12
And yeah, it feels like yesterday, but years ago.
30:18
I remember Jonah, his first test was in Crosschurch,
30:23
and JKU just brought you way back into the team
30:25
after being dropped in 93.
30:28
And I came home admittedly a little bit late,
30:33
because, you know, it didn't really matter what I did.
30:35
It must be about three, four o'clock in the morning.
30:37
And I went to the team room to grab the power rate,
30:39
you know, because you need a blue power rate in the morning.
30:41
And there's Jonah sitting in the team room.
30:44
I said, what are you doing, mate?
30:45
It's four o'clock in the morning.
30:46
You're playing at 2.30, you said, yeah, I can't sleep.
30:50
I just can't sleep.
30:51
I'm so nervous.
30:53
And I don't want to wait JK up.
30:55
So I've just, so he spent the whole night
30:58
in the team room not sleeping before his first test.
31:02
Yeah, it was, it was, it was amazing.
31:04
I remember actually Victor, you mentioned this story.
31:07
He rang me and said, oh, can you come to training?
31:09
So I'd finished, I think I was in Japan.
31:12
And it'd been to, it'd been to South Africa,
31:14
like the World Cup and stuff.
31:16
And what, what the, what the South African side did is,
31:19
and they'd stand outside him.
31:21
And then I'd like, you see it a lot now,
31:23
but they closed the gate, right?
31:25
So they'd come outside in from a defensive point of view.
31:28
And they did that in the World Cup final.
31:29
And he really struggled with it.
31:31
And if you remember, they closed him down incredibly well.
31:34
Although he played well, they closed him down incredibly.
31:37
And I remember him ringing me, so I said,
31:38
okay, can you come to training at the beginning of the year
31:40
because I'm really struggling with his outside in defense?
31:45
And so he sat and chaired it about how he could possibly
31:50
manipulate that outside in defense, you know?
31:52
Which is, you know, but he was getting really frustrated with that.
31:56
And I think South Africa, you know,
31:58
did an amazing job in that final to shut him down.
32:00
With, with taking some rest.
32:02
That first one of the proudest records South Africans do.
32:06
Oh, as Jonah never scored against his spring box.
32:10
Unbelievable.
32:11
Yeah, unbelievable.
32:13
Yeah, I was a, I'll put that, I really enjoyed watching that interview back.
32:19
I remember the time really well and how young he was.
32:22
And there's a movie coming out about Jonah.
32:26
I saw the trailer on YouTube the other day.
32:28
So I'm going to chuck that that interview up on our rivals YouTube channel
32:32
on the next day or so and share it.
32:34
Because it's just a memory of not only what a great player he was,
32:39
but he was just a good man, you know, and he was so young at that World Cup.
32:43
And it was so bewildering for him what happened.
32:48
You know, I've never never seen anything like it in rugby.
32:53
Well, he was our first ever superstar.
32:54
I remember Robin Williams, who I used to really enjoy as a comedian, obviously,
32:59
you know, loved Jonah.
33:01
I remember that photo.
33:02
But it was sad for me as well because, you know,
33:06
I saw this young man at times really struggling with the fame because it just went
33:11
we'd never seen anything like it.
33:12
I mean, you're famous in New Zealand, right?
33:16
But that worldwide fame.
33:17
And I remember and he was a beautiful shy young man, right?
33:22
And so that's, you know, quite an introvert, you know,
33:25
into his music, really into his close friends.
33:29
So he was really an introvert.
33:31
So for him, it was really doubly difficult, you know,
33:36
there was, it was sad at time watching him having to deal with it.
33:41
Yeah, but, you know, that's the money.
33:43
We probably haven't had anyone like that since, have we, Victor?
33:46
No, very difficult.
33:47
It's probably the next big thing is probably rich in dance between them.
33:53
I think someone like Sasha is also starting,
33:56
but it's not in this same league.
33:58
Jaina was just out of it.
34:00
I mean, he was worldwide.
34:01
Even countries that don't play rugby spoke about him.
34:05
Yeah.
34:06
All right, well, we'll look forward to the URC playoffs and the Super Rugby
34:10
playoffs and see how accurate your picks are.
34:14
Who's going to win the Super Rugby JK?
34:16
I think if the Hurricanes can get back to that combination of physicality and
34:20
expansiveness with their front five, you know, bullying people are wee bit,
34:27
then I think, you know, they've just come off five percent
34:31
from their defensive intimidation.
34:34
So if they get that back, I think they deserve to win.
34:38
So I'm hoping the Hurricanes, obviously I want the blues to win,
34:41
but I think they've just been too inconsistent.
34:44
I mean, I wouldn't want to play them off those, the Crusaders,
34:46
because they've probably got a game in them,
34:48
but I think the Hurricanes will win at the end if they can get a home final.
34:53
And I'm not going to ask you, Victor, because you think the bulls are going to win everything?
34:57
No, I actually don't.
34:59
I think Gleens there's still the team to beat.
35:02
So, but let's hope the bulls get to that final and if they're there, there's a small chance.
35:07
Yeah, I'll be cheering on the bulls.
35:09
All right, mate.
35:11
Thanks very much and we'll see you back next week for rivals.