Latest / The Restaurant Guys / The Ghost of Jerry Thomas Has Notes | AI, Dale DeGroff & the Future of Cocktails

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The Ghost of Jerry Thomas Has Notes | AI, Dale DeGroff & the Future of Cocktails · The Restaurant Guys

• 0:34
  Speaker 4: Hey there, everybody.
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: Welcome to today's, uh, Restaurant Guys Podcast.
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: The most interesting thing about today's podcast is, well, our guest today is dead.
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: Uh, Jerry Thomas died in 1885, but in his 55 years, he did more to advance and record the art of bartending than anyone who's ever picked up a shaker.
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: He wrote some of the first and most important books on cocktails, the books that helped spark the 21st century revival of the craft.
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: With a little help, uh, from both AI and Dale DeGroff, we've brought him back for today's episode of the Restaurant Guys Podcast.
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: Jerry's responses will be voiced by Dale because, well, Jerry's dead.
• 1:16
  Speaker 5: Which leads me to say, uh, by the way, that AI, it's, it's a bit tight-ass.
• 1:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:23
  Speaker 5: A little bor- a little boring, so I may throw some things in here and there.
• 1:26
  Speaker 6: Okay, this is either our best idea or our last show.
• 1:30
  Speaker 6: Jerry Thomas, welcome to the Restaurant Guys Podcast.
• 1:34
  Speaker 5: Gentlemen, it's an absolute pleasure.
• 1:36
  Speaker 5: I've been waiting 146 years- for another speaking engagement, and I'm- I'm delighted.
• 1:42
  Speaker 5: I- I'm- I'm- I've been observing your era with great interest, by the way, a- and occasional concern.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: Well, Jerry, it's a pleasure to have you on the Restaurant Guys Podcast.
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: This is really a first.
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: Um, wha- uh, what exactly...
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: You said it was interesting and concerning.
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: What do you find interesting about our current era from 146 years ago?
• 2:02
  Speaker 5: Hmm, yes.
• 2:03
  Speaker 5: Uh, most interesting is that you care again.
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: Hello.
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: You care again.
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: Uh, for a time after my own era, the bar fell into dreadful habits, shortcuts, inferior spirits, careless preparation, and, and now you debate ice as if it were philosophy.
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: You, you argue over vermouth with the intensity of theologians.
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: It's deeply gratifying.
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: Oh my God, that's wonderful.
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: You're terrific.
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: You should hear a guy named Dale DeGroff.
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: He would be amazed by your insight.
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: Um, so but, okay, so those are the positive things.
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: What, uh, Jerry, gives you concerns?
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: Because you mentioned also you had some concerns about the era from your, uh, perch in the great beyond.
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: What gives you concerns?
• 2:48
  Speaker 5: Uh, sometimes people mistake effort for excellence.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: Hmm.
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: Uh, I see- 10 ingredients where there should maybe be three ingredients.
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: Uh, smoke where there should be clarity.
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: Um, technique displayed without purpose, uh, for the ego of the barman, not in service of the guest.
• 3:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 3:09
  Speaker 6: So we're overdoing it.
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: But you've rediscovered the craft.
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: I- The craft
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: of the cocktail,
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: would you say?
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: The craft of the cocktail?
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: But sometimes...
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: Yes, I feel like, you know, I mean, the, the craft, the show, uh, but not arrogance.
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: Flavor, you know?
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: Uh, arro- arrogance is not flavor, my friends.
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: So, uh, you should show a guest delight, and a bartender should never, ever employ tweezers.
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: Could be wrong about that, but I don't think so.
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:39
  Speaker 5: By the way, I, I'm not saying that a pair of white rats cavorting on your shoulders is a bad thing.
• 3:47
  Speaker 5: That's show business.
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: Well, you did that.
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: You did a pair of white rats- Yes cavorting on your shoulders.
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: That's not overdoing it.
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: That's show business.
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: So anyone who criticizes flair bartending today should remember.
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: Is wrong.
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: Is wrong.
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I hear you.
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: Cause that brings the crowd.
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: All right, but, so, so what's the balance?
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: What is the balance between flair bartending, rats cavorting on your shoulders, and, and, and making a drink and not being stupid?
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: Simplicity executed perfectly.
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: Hmm.
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: Does that work for you?
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: Presented with just enough theater to make it memorable, and eating is an experience, not a spectacle.
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: Uh, and for the love of Disney, just stop taking fucking pictures.
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: I mean, the drink's getting warm over here.
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: You know?
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: You've
• 4:32
  Speaker 6: ruined
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: the moment- I find that intolerable by
• 4:33
  Speaker 6: taking a picture of it.
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah,
• 4:35
  Speaker 6: yeah.
• 4:35
  Speaker 6: Jerry, your books are the foundation on which we've rebuilt our bar culture.
• 4:39
  Speaker 6: Why do you think these books have had such a lasting impact?
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: Consistency, Mark.
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: That worked.
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: I mean, I got ripped off a lot.
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: History, civilization depends on shared experiences, expectations.
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: Uh, the, the, the true, across the time as well, is the recipe is a promise.
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: A recipe is history brought to life every time you make it, and it's a darn sight better than this AI stuff.
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: You know what?
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: I wanna bring this to a personal moment.
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: Dick Fitzgerald are criminal in the way they ripped me off.
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: My publishers.
• 5:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: Criminal.
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: You have
• 5:25
  Speaker 6: no
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: idea.
• 5:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 5:27
  Speaker 6: Okay, Jerry.
• 5:29
  Speaker 6: We're gonna have a lightning round now.
• 5:31
  Speaker 6: Ready?
• 5:32
  Speaker 5: I'm ready.
• 5:33
  Speaker 6: Bottled cocktails.
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: I invented bottled cocktails.
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: Are you kidding me?
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: Camping.
• 5:38
  Speaker 5: You didn't read my book?
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: Everyone read your book.
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: Dale DeGroff
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: showed me your
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: book.
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: It's efficient, but it's tragic.
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: I mean, a, a cocktail is a handshake, not a telegram.
• 5:49
  Speaker 5: But, uh, you know, Bernard, uh, who wrote The Hour, Bernard, you know, he understood, uh, about this business.
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: He said,"A martini is a work of art.
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: Putting a martini in a bottle, putting a martini in a icebox," that's what we had in, in my day,"is like trying to save a kiss."
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: Mm.
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: You know how hard it was for me to get that book from beyond?
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: No.
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: All
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: right.
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: Lightning round.
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: Cocktails on draft.
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: Oh, my God.
• 6:22
  Speaker 5: I admire ambition.
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: I question the soul.
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: Fair enough.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: Zero-proof cocktails.
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: Hospitality means everyone gets a proper glass.
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: I should know, for I myself am now a zero-proof spirit.
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: How did you like that?
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: Like that, fellas?
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: I like it.
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: You dig it?
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: You're, uh...
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: Get it,'cause you're dead.
• 6:46
  Speaker 6: O- okay, Jerry, what's the most ordered drink where you are now?
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: Regret.
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: That wasn't on the script.
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: That was, uh-
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: Well, no, no, closely followed by a shot of whiskey.
• 7:01
  Speaker 6: Well, I have good news.
• 7:02
  Speaker 6: We still have both of those.
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: Good.
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: All right, final, final, s- qui- final question in the lightning round.
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: Um, uh, contemporary bartending, positive or negative?
• 7:12
  Speaker 5: Overwhelmingly positive, gentlemen.
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: You care again, you care again-
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah,
• 7:19
  Speaker 5: that's it you care again.
• 7:20
  Speaker 5: That's it.
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: And that's everything.
• 7:22
  Speaker 6: Jerry, it's been such a great pleasure having you here, especially considering, well, that you're dead.
• 7:29
  Speaker 6: Any final words before we let you go and get back to Dale?
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: You know, I, gentlemen, I have enjoyed the visit more than you know.
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: They don't let me out much anymore.
• 7:38
  Speaker 5: Uh, thank you for having me.
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: I, I, I leave you with this.
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: Uh, please share it with your contemporaries.
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: Always remember this business, our business, is about drinks, but it's about how one feels when one sits before you, when he leaves home and thinks fondly of his time with you, and more importantly, when he returns once again, a regular in good standing.
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: To the guests, gentlemen, whom without we are merely men with a bunch of bottles behind us.
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: Oh, finally Would you please get together with small groups of your friends and try to bring me back to life?
• 8:30
  Speaker 6: And that's the show