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Cheating Wife and Lover Convicted in Pastor's Brutal Murder · Murder Files Unsealed

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: OK, let's unpack this. Imagine leaving like a really secure,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: highly structured life as a police officer in the freezing,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: tight knit communities of northern Minnesota. Oh, yeah.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Total culture shock.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Right. You pack up your entire existence, move your family
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: of seven across the world to a remote village in
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the Angolan bush. And you just dedicate your days to
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: helping one of the most marginalized groups of people on
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: the planet.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: And you're doing all this without running water. No power grid. Exactly.
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  Speaker 1: Completely cut off from basically every modern convenience you've known
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: your whole life. And then one afternoon, you're lured out
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: into the wilderness under the pretense of a broken down
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: car and you are brutally assassinated.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: It's just staggering.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: And it's not by local insurgents, you know, not by
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: opportunistic highway robbers, but by your own household security guard.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: a hit that was orchestrated and paid for by your
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: wife of nearly 20 years, who is literally hiding in
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: the bushes just a few feet away while it happens.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: The contrast between the life they built and the way
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: that life ended is, it's almost impossible to process at
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: first glance.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: It really is.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: We are looking at a scenario where a profound life-altering
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: mission to serve others was entirely subverted by a domestic
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: conspiracy so brutal And honestly, so fundamentally flawed in its
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: execution that it challenges everything we understand about premeditated crime.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Deep Dive. I am speaking directly to you,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: the listener, who wants to understand the absolute granular mechanics
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: behind these staggering events. Today we have an incredibly dense
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: set of source materials, primarily drawing from this fascinating interview
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: on the Law and Crime Network featuring Jack Rice.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Jack Rice is brilliant.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: He really is. He's a criminal defense attorney, a former
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: CIA officer, and just someone who understands the global justice
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: system on a microscopic level. Our mission today is to
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: deconstruct how a seemingly idyllic, purpose-driven life in an isolated
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: African village devolved into a coordinated assassination. Right.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: And we're going to look specifically at how this case
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: dismantles some incredibly pervasive and, frankly, dangerous assumptions that people
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: make about international borders and, you know, the reach of
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  Speaker 2: law enforcement.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: The idea that you can just get away with things
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: if you're far from home.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly. There is this psychological trap that individuals fall into
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: when they leave their home country. It's like an illusion
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: of invincibility that we really need to tear apart today.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: So to even begin to understand the psychological state of
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: the people involved, I feel like we have to establish
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: the immense, almost incomprehensible change in their environment.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. The geography is crucial here.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Right. So we are looking at a victim named Bo Schroyer.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: He was 44 years old. And before moving to Africa,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Bo was a police officer in Detroit Lakes, Minnesota. I
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: want to linger on that for a second because, you know,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Detroit Lakes is a town of about 10,000 people.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: It's very small.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Very intimate.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Very intimate.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's heavily focused on community, local churches, the outdoors.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: If you are a police officer in a town of 10,000 people,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: you aren't just some anonymous badge in a sprawling metropolis.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: You're a public figure, basically.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Totally. You are highly visible. You operate within this intense
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: web of social accountability. Every traffic stop, every community event,
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  Speaker 1: you are interacting with people who know your family.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: And that level of visibility creates a highly specific psychological baseline.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by that?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Well, you're conditioned to understand that your actions are constantly monitored, right?
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: And not just by your department, but by the community itself.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: There is a rigid structure. You've got dash cams, standard
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: operating procedures, neighbors who will absolutely notice if your car
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: is parked in a strange driveway at 2 in the morning. Right.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Everybody knows everybody's business.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Your behavior is constantly regulated by these external social mirrors.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: And Beau had been married to his wife, Jacqueline, who
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: goes by Jackie, since May of 2005. They got married
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: in Andover, Minnesota, so we're talking nearly two decades of marriage,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: five children, deeply embedded in the Lakes Area Vineyard Church.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: A very established life.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. According to Bo's obituary, this was a man whose
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: entire identity revolved around his faith, his family, and a
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: genuine desire to serve. He was known for his unique wit,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: but beneath that was this incredibly sturdy, predictable foundation.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: And then they just uproot all of it.
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  Speaker 1: Right. In 2021, they make a decision that upends that
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: entirely predictable foundation. The family of seven moves to Angola
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: through SIMUSA, which is a North Carolina-based evangelical Christian organization.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the physical relocation is extreme, but the sociological
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: relocation is really what we need to examine here.
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  Speaker 1: It wasn't just a move to a different city.
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  Speaker 2: No, not at all. They didn't move to Luanda, the
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  Speaker 2: capital city of Angola, where you have you know, international embassies,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: high-rise buildings, and expatriate communities. They moved to a remote
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: bush village to work with the Neneka people.
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  Speaker 1: Which is incredibly isolated.
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  Speaker 2: Bo actually posted on his Facebook page just a single
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  Speaker 2: day before his murder, specifically describing the Neneka as among
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: the most marginalized people groups in Angola.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I just, I really cannot overstate the severity of this
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: environmental shift. The sources detail that they were living with
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  Speaker 1: no electricity. No sewer infrastructure, no municipal water systems.
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  Speaker 2: It's basically a survival situation.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We are talking about going from a Minnesota winter,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: where you can rely on a snowplow and central heating,
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  Speaker 1: to an environment where acquiring clean water dictates your entire
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: daily schedule.
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  Speaker 2: Which takes a massive physical and mental toll.
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  Speaker 1: Right. So looking at it from a psychological perspective, does
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  Speaker 1: this kind of absolute isolation act as a pressure cooker?
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  Speaker 1: If you take a family out of their comfortable Minnesota
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  Speaker 1: life and drop them into a literal off-grid scenario in
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  Speaker 1: the bush, does the environment create the fracture or does
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: it just expose the cracks that were already there?
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I think that is the pivotal question of human behavior
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: in extreme environments. You know, when you remove someone from
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: their culture of origin, you systematically strip away those social
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: mirrors we just talked about.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: The accountability goes away.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Back at Detroit Legs. If a marriage begins to deteriorate,
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  Speaker 2: the couple has an entire infrastructure to catch them or
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: distract them.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you have coffee with a friend, you go to
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: a marriage counselor.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: Or you spend a weekend apart. Or you just, I
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: don't know, lose yourself in a Netflix show or a
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: community event. You have a pressure release valve. But in
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: an off-grid village in the Angolan bush, there are no
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: release valves.
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  Speaker 1: You're just stuck with each other.
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  Speaker 2: You are entirely, exclusively dependent on your spouse for emotional regulation,
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  Speaker 2: for conversation, and for literal daily physical survival.
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  Speaker 1: You are sharing oxygen in a very small, very stressful bubble.
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  Speaker 2: And inside a bubble like that, cognitive dissonance really takes root.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the isolation doesn't magically turn a stable, rational
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: person into a homicidal mastermind. Right.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Living without plumbing does not cause a person to commit murder.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. But extreme isolation alters an individual's perception of consequences.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: When you are that far removed from the society that
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: formed your moral and legal boundaries, you can start to
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  Speaker 2: develop this bizarre sense of detachment.
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  Speaker 1: Like the rules don't apply anymore.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The laws of Minnesota feel like they belong to
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  Speaker 2: a different planet. A person can begin to feel like
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: they are operating in a void, this liminal space where
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  Speaker 2: the normal rules of cause and effect have just been suspended.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: That concept of a void seems so crucial here because
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  Speaker 1: Jackie's actions imply she genuinely believed she was operating in
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  Speaker 1: a space where nobody was watching.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: She really did.
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  Speaker 1: Let's look at the timeline. On October 25th, 2024, Beau
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: is lured out to a remote area. The pretense is
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: that someone needs help with a broken down car engine.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Which fits his personality perfectly.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, given what we know about his background as a
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  Speaker 1: cop and a missionary, he is the guy who shows
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  Speaker 1: up to help. So he goes out to the bush
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  Speaker 1: and he is brutally stabbed to death. His body is
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  Speaker 1: eventually found next to this blood-stained car, and his belongings
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: are still at the scene.
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  Speaker 2: Now, the presence of his belongings immediately changes the entire
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: trajectory of the investigation for the Angolan authorities.
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  Speaker 1: Because it rules out robbery.
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  Speaker 2: Right. If you were examining a body in a remote
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: area and the valuables are gone, the working theory is
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: an opportunistic robbery or a carjacking gone wrong. But leaving
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: the victim's personal items intact signals something entirely different.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: That it was personal.
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  Speaker 2: It signals that the violence wasn't a means to financial gain.
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  Speaker 2: The violence was the primary objective. It was a targeted elimination.
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  Speaker 1: And Jackie's narrative to the authorities is, I mean, it's
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  Speaker 1: almost cinematic in its absurdity.
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  Speaker 2: It's frankly insulting to the intelligence of the police.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Totally. She claims she was present at the scene, out
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: in the bush with Beau in the car, but she
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: suddenly felt the urge to go to the bathroom. So
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  Speaker 1: she wanders off, hides behind some brush to relieve herself,
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  Speaker 1: and during this incredibly busy brief window of time, a
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  Speaker 1: group of unknown assailants descends upon her husband, stabs him
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  Speaker 1: to death, and vanishes.
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  Speaker 2: Just poof, gone.
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  Speaker 1: Right. She then emerges, discovers the scene, and puts on
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: this display of absolute hysterical grief.
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  Speaker 2: It's a performance designed to exploit the very assumptions she
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: thought the authorities would make.
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  Speaker 1: Like the helpless white woman in Africa trope.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly. She assumed the police would see a grieving American
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  Speaker 2: missionary widow and a dead American husband in a dangerous
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  Speaker 2: area and simply closed the book. But the Angolan Criminal
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Investigation Service, the CIS, they did not close the book.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Thank goodness they didn't.
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  Speaker 2: They started pulling at the threads, and the entire sweater
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  Speaker 2: unraveled with astonishing speed.
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  Speaker 1: I am really struggling to understand. the cognitive leap required
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: to execute a plan this chaotic. The source material outlines
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  Speaker 1: the exact breadcrumbs she left behind, and they don't even
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: seem like breadcrumbs. They seem like deliberate confessions.
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  Speaker 2: They really do.
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  Speaker 1: So the hitmen are identified as Isolino Cayu, Jelson Ramos,
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  Speaker 1: and Bernardino Elias. She paid them the equivalent of roughly $ 50, 000.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Which is an astronomical sum there.
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  Speaker 1: Right. In a village economy where there is no running water, $ 50, 000
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  Speaker 1: is like a geological event. It's an amount of money
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  Speaker 1: that leaves a massive, undeniable footprint. How does someone rationalize
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: handing over that kind of cash and thinking it won't
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: be noticed?
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: To understand that, we have to look at the neurological
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: reality of what Jack Rice categorizes as the amateur criminal mind.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, tell me more about that.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Well, When a person is operating under extreme emotional duress,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: whether it's desperation, panic, or in this case, the obsessive
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: desire to maintain a romantic affair, their brain undergoes a
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: massive shift in resource allocation.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: So they literally aren't thinking straight.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly. The prefrontal cortex, which is the area responsible for
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: long-term planning, risk assessment, and logical deduction, is essentially overridden
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  Speaker 2: by the amygdala.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: The fight or flight center. Right.
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  Speaker 2: They develop severe tunnel vision. Their entire cognitive bandwidth is
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: consumed by a single overwhelming objective, which is that the
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: target must be removed.
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  Speaker 1: So they literally don't have the mental capacity left over
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: to think about the aftermath. They are only thinking about
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: the event itself.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Precisely. It's the exact opposite of how a professional operates.
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  Speaker 2: A professional assassin spends 10% of their time on the
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: act and 90% on the entry and the exit.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Covering their tracks.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. The emotionally compromised amateur spends 100% of their
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: energy on the act itself. Jackie wanted the obstacle removed,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: and she threw an astronomical sum of money at the
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: problem without once considering how a sudden influx of $ 50, 000
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: would destabilize the local economy or, you know, alert local informants.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: That makes sense, but the choices she made with her
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: personnel are just as staggering to me. Like, KU and
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Ramos had established criminal records. The sources indicate histories of
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: kidnapping and armed robbery.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Right. They were known to local law enforcement.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: But Bernardino Elias wasn't just the local thug for hire.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: He was the family's personal security guard. He worked at
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: their house. He was woven into their daily lives.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. He was a familiar face.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Hiring someone who stands on your front porch to execute
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: your husband seems like the absolute fastest way to ensure
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: the investigation leads straight back to your living room.
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  Speaker 2: It is a catastrophic failure of criminal logistics. She enlisted
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: a man she had a direct, verifiable daily connection with.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: But she went even further than that.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, right. The scouting trip.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Yes. The CIS uncovered that in the days leading up
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: to the murder, Jackie and Elias actually went out together
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: to scout the remote location. They visited the exact spot
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: in the bush to ensure it was suitable for an ambush.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: The arrogance of that is breathtaking.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Driving out to a remote location with your security guard
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: to plan your husband's murder, assuming that because you were
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: in the bush, the trees don't have eyes.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: It's hubris, pure and simple. But I have to bring
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: up the most unbelievable detail in this entire tragedy. The
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: murder weapon. Investigators process the scene and they find the
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: knife used to kill Bo.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: This part is just wild.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: It isn't a locally sourced generic machete or like a
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: kitchen knife. It is an American-made knife. And not only
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: is it an American import, but the investigation revealed it
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: was a knife that Jackie had personally purchased and given
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: to Elias as a gift.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, you can't make this up.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I cannot wrap my head around this. You orchestrate a murder,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: you scout the location, and then you allow the killer
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: to use a highly specific, traceable weapon that you personally
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: handed to him.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: It... It sounds like fiction. I know, but it is
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: a textbook example of that cognitive collapse we were just discussing.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: So she just wasn't thinking about it as evidence.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Exactly. When Jackie gifted that knife, she likely wasn't thinking
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: of it as a future murder weapon. She was thinking
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: of it as a gift. And when the time came
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: to execute the plan, the hitmen grabbed whatever was efficient.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Because they don't care about forensic traceability.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Right. An armed robber doesn't care about forensics. An armed
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: robber cares about whether the blade is sharp. This is
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: what happens when a naive mastermind delegates a complex task
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: to blunt instruments.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: It's a recipe for disaster.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: You combine an emotionally flooded architect with tactically unsophisticated contractors,
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: and the resulting crime scene is basically a chaotic collage
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: of direct evidence.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: So we have this incredibly sloppy execution, but the question
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: that constantly hangs over a case like this is the motivation.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Why escalate to murder? Why not just file for divorce?
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: And that's the multimillion-dollar question.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Here's where it gets really interesting, because the motive the
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Angolan authorities uncovered provides the exact missing piece of the puzzle.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: It explains the rush, it explains the personnel choices, and
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: it explains the total lack of rational foresight.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: The motive is perhaps the most ancient driver of human conflict,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: but it was subjected to the extreme pressure of their
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: specific geographic and social isolation.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Manuel Halaiwa, who is the superintendent of criminal investigation with
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: the CIS in Angola, publicly stated that there were strong
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: suspicions of a romantic affair.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the catalyst.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Jackie Schroyer was secretly involved with Bernardino Elias, the very
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: same security guard she hired, the man she scouted the
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: location with, the man she gave the American knife to.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: The man who was literally supposed to be protecting her family.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: The affair alone is a massive betrayal. But an affair
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: in a remote bush village doesn't automatically trigger a murder-for-hire plot.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: There has to be an accelerating factor, right? A ticking clock.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: And there was a ticking clock. Beau had made a
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: definitive decision.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, his missionary work with the Neneka people was concluding,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: and he had determined it was time for the family
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: to pack up and move back to the United States.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: He was actively preparing to pull the family out of Angola.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: But Jackie did not want to leave her lover. Right.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Put yourself inside the psychological vice group she was experiencing.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: On one side, she has this illicit relationship that she
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: has managed to conceal within the isolation of the bush.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: It's her secret world.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: On the other side, she's facing an immovable deadline. Her
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: husband is moving her back to Detroit Lakes, Minnesota. If
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: she returns to that highly structured, highly observant community, maintaining
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: an international affair with an Angolan security guard becomes completely impossible.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely. And if the affair is discovered in Minnesota.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: The social fallout within her tight-knit religious circle would be absolute.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: She would face a devastating divorce, the potential alienation of
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: her five children, and total excommunication from the social identity
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: she had built over 20 years.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: I see the pressure. I really do. But I still
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: have to debate the logic here. Millions of people face
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: devastating divorces and social ruin. They hire lawyers. They divide assets.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: They endure the humiliation.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: They do it every day.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Why does her brain jump past all of those difficult
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: but normal societal processes and land directly on....
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Because of the void we discussed earlier. She wasn't standing
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: in a lawyer's office in Minneapolis. She was standing in
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: the Angolan bush, holding $ 50, 000, looking at a security guard
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: who had connections to local criminals.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: The environment warped her reality.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Exactly. The extreme isolation distorted her risk assessment. She genuinely
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: believed she could solve a complex emotional and social problem
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: with a single, brutal physical act, and that the environment
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: would simply swallow the evidence.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: She thought the wilderness would erase the crime.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: That was her fundamental miscalculation.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: But the authorities didn't need months or years to figure
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: this out. The wilderness didn't erase anything. Beau was killed
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: on October 25th. By early November, just a matter of
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: days later, the entire plot had been exposed and Jackie
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: was arrested.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: The speed of that collapse is just incredible.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: How does law enforcement take a group of four people,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: the wife, the guard, and the two hired men, and...
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: crack them so quickly?
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: They utilized the most powerful tool in the prosecutorial arsenal,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: which is conspiracy law. Jack Rice, in his analysis of
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: the case, provided a master class on how this works
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: using an incredibly evocative analogy.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, right. He called it cement shoes. Yes.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Cement shoes.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Let's really dig into the mechanics of these cement shoes.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: How does a conspiracy charge actually function in a courtroom,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: whether it's in the United States or down in Angola?
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: So at its core, a conspiracy charge does not require
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: the state to prove that you personally committed the final
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: act of violence.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: You don't have to hold the knife.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Exactly. It only requires them to prove two things. First,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: that an agreement was made between two or more people
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: to commit an illegal act. Second, that at least one
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: person in that group took an overt act to further
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: the agreement.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Wait, so an overt act doesn't have to be the
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: stabbing itself?
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Exactly the opposite. An overt act can be entirely mundane
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: on its own.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Like what?
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Driving a car to a location is an overt act.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Withdrawing cash from a bank is an overt act. Handing
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: someone an American-made knife is an overt act.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Once the prosecution establishes that the agreement existed and
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: that an overt act occurred, the legal trap snaps shut.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: From that moment on, every single member of the conspiracy
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: is legally responsible for the actions of every other member.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I want to make sure I understand the gravity of this.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: You're saying that if I agree to a plot... And
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: my only job is to like make a phone call
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: to tell the hitman the target has left the house.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I am legally on the hook for the actual murder,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: even if I am 10 miles away sitting in a cafe.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: You are legally on the hook for the murder, the
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: weapons charges, the flight from justice, everything.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: That is intense.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: The prosecution takes all these individual, seemingly disparate elements and
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: braids them together into a single, inescapable quilt of guilt.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: This is why defense attorneys fight so aggressively to sever
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: their clients from a conspiracy case.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: They want to break the chain.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Exactly. A defense attorney representing one of the hitmen wants
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: a separate trial. They want to argue, hey, my client
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: was just hired muscle. He didn't orchestrate this. He didn't
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: have the motive. They want to isolate their client's actions.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: But the prosecutor's entire strategy is to keep them chained together.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: That is the cement shoes. If the Angolan CIS ties
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Jackie to Elias through the affair and the financial transfer,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: and they tie Elias to Caillou and Ramos through the
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: scouting mission and the American knife, then the undeniable forensic
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: evidence against the men in the bush becomes undeniable evidence
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: against the woman hiding behind the bushes.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Because they're all wearing the same cement shoes.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Right. When the prosecutors throw one of them into the river,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: the chain pulls the rest of them down. No one
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: has a clean path to surface. If one goes down,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: they all go down.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: And the Angolan legal system executed this strategy with absolute precision.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: The speed of the arrests led directly to a swift
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: trial in the Lubongo District Court.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: It was remarkably fast.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: And the sentencing here is a critical point of discussion
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: because it forces a confrontation with a very uncomfortable, very
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: pervasive bias that exists in the West.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: It really is an essential sociological takeaway from this tragedy.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: The sentences came down and they were severe. Jackie Schroyer
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: was found guilty and sentenced to 24 years in an
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Angolan prison, along with a fine of nearly $ 11, 000. That's
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: a massive sentence. And the accomplices, Elias, Cayo, and Ramos,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: received sentences ranging from 21 to 22 years for aggravated
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: homicide and money laundering. Now, the sources do note that
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Jackie's defense team is planning an appeal, claiming there were
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: inconsistencies in the trial process and issues with how evidence
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: was handled.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Sure. That is a standard post-conviction legal maneuver.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Right. But the undeniable reality is that a group of
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: conspirators attempted an assassination, and within months, they were investigated, tried, convicted,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: and sentenced to decades in prison.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: This rapid, definitive application of justice absolutely shatters the mythology
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: that many Westerners carry when they travel to developing nations.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: I really want to push on this idea. We've talked
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: about her delusion regarding the wilderness, but was there a
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: specific reason arrogant calculation about the host country itself?
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: I believe so, yes.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Did she look at the unpaved roads, the lack of
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: municipal plumbing, the extreme poverty of the Nianika people, and
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: equate a lack of physical infrastructure with a lack of
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: intellectual or investigative rigor? Did she essentially think, these local
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: cops won't know how to process a crime scene?
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: If we connect this to the bigger picture, that ethnocentric
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: fallacy is almost certainly what emboldened her. Jack Rice addressed
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: this specific bias with incredible clarity, drawing from his own
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: extensive boots-on-the-ground experience.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Right, because he's worked all over the world.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Exactly. He has traveled the globe teaching trial advocacy skills.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: He's worked in the Republic of Georgia, in Turkey, in Kenya,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: in South Sudan, and in northern Uganda.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: He's seen it firsthand.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: And his observation is that when he sits in a
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: courtroom in a place like Uganda, the prosecutor sitting next
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: to him or the defense attorney across the aisle possesses
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: a level of legal sophistication and strategic brilliance that is
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: entirely on par with the best legal minds operating in
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: the United States.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: But we have this deeply ingrained third world myth, this
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: cinematic trope that American institutions are inherently superior and that
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: foreign justice systems, especially in rural Africa, are either entirely corruptible,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: easily confused, or technologically incapable of solving a complex crime.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: It is a toxic assumption.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: It is a toxic assumption.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: And for criminals, it is a fatal one.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Clearly.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Rice explicitly warned against the arrogance of crossing a border
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: and assuming the local authorities are lesser than. I mean,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: are there corrupt or incompetent officials in developing nations? Of course.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Just as there are corrupt and incompetent officials in police
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: departments across the United States.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Human nature is universal.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: But the baseline assumption that you can commit a capital
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: offense in a foreign country and outsmart the local investigators
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: simply because you hold an American passport is absurd.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: The Angolan Criminal Investigation Service didn't need a billion-dollar forensic
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: lab to solve this.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: No, they didn't. No. They just needed sharp detectives.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: They looked at a staged car breakdown. They looked at
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: an out-of-place American knife. They tracked a massive and highly
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: unusual cash payout. And they interrogated a woman whose alibi
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: about needing to use the bathroom during a synchronized ambush
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: defied all basic logic.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: They applied pressure to the weakest link in that conspiracy,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: and the entire plot shattered.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: And the court's final ruling actually reflects a highly sophisticated
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: understanding of culpability. I am looking at the distribution of
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: the prison sentences, and there is a really fascinating disparity here.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the sentencing links are very revealing.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Jackie received 24 years. The men who actually held the knife,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: who physically carried out the brutal violence, received 21 to
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: 22 years. She got more time than the literal killers.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: That sentencing structure is incredibly telling. And it is actually
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: quite rare when you look at international justice broadly.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Why is that?
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Very often, the physical perpetrators, the hired muscles, the lower-level operatives,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: end up bearing the brunt of the state's wrath. They're
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: the easiest to catch. They leave the most physical evidence.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: And they usually lack the resources to mount a formidable defense.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Right. They can't afford the expensive lawyers.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Exactly. The wealthy or insulated mastermind who orchestrated the crime
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: from a distance frequently manages to negotiate a lesser charge,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: or sometimes evades justice entirely by hiding behind layers of deniability.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: But the Lubongo District Court didn't allow that to happen.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: They didn't let the mastermind hide behind the physical actions
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: of her contractors. No.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: They saw right through it. From a purely philosophical justice standpoint,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Jack Rice noted how incredibly fitting this outcome is. Jackie
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Schroyer was the architect. She imported the motive into the environment.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: She weaponized the money.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: She manipulated her position of trust to facilitate the hit.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: The court looked at the totality of the conspiracy and
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: accurately determined that while the hitmen were the weapon, Jackie
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: was the one swinging it.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: That's a powerful way to put it.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: It is profoundly appropriate that the person who conceived of
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: the tragedy pays the heaviest toll.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: It is appropriate, but it doesn't undo the damage. As
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: we move away from the legal architecture, the conspiracy theories,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: and the investigative mechanics, we have to look at the
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: crater that's left in the real world.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: The human element.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Because beyond the 24-year sentence, there is a human toll
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: here that is staggering in its cruelty.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: The collateral damage of this kind of domestic conspiracy is
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: always devastating. But the specifics of this case elevate the
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: tragedy to a different level entirely.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about Beau Schroyer's legacy. He was laid to
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: rest back in the United States on November 30th, 2024.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: His obituary paints a picture of a man who was
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: utterly dedicated to his calling.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: He really believed in what he was doing.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: It mentions that a previous mission trip to Africa... which
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: he took with his oldest daughter Bella, was the catalyst
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: that expanded his heart for helping marginalized children. He found
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: a profound purpose in trying to provide not just physical necessities,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: but love, inspiration, and kindness to kids who had nothing.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: And he upended his life to pursue that calling.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: And he was murdered in the dirt while actively trying
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: to live it out.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: And the deepest layer of that tragedy falls squarely on
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: the shoulders of his five children. You have five young
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: people who were dragged across the globe, placed in an
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: incredibly difficult, austere environment, and then subjected to the ultimate trauma.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: It's just horrific to think about.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: They didn't just lose their father to an act of
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: horrific violence. On the exact same day, they effectively lost
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: their mother. They have to grow up processing the reality
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: that the woman who raised them is the architect of
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: their father's slaughter.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I cannot even begin to fathom the psychological support required
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: to navigate a betrayal of that magnitude. The sources do
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: provide some details on the aftermath for the family, though.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what's happening with the kids now?
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: The five children were immediately extracted from Angola and returned
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: to the United States. They are currently living with and
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: being cared for by close family members, and there is
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: a massive mobilization of support happening behind the scenes.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: That's a relief to hear.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Counselors from SIMUSA, the mission organization they traveled with, are
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: actively working with the kids. Furthermore, the community has established
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: a dedicated long-term financial fund to ensure that these children
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: have their physical and educational needs met as they try
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: to rebuild their lives from scratch.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: That kind of institutional and community safety net is absolutely critical.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Healing from a complex trauma where the perpetrator is your
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: own parent requires decades of specialized support. It requires a
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: community that refuses to look away.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: And the community back in Minnesota is grappling with this
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: in real time. Troy Easton, the lead pastor at the
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Lakes Area Vineyard Church, the congregation the Schroyers belonged to
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: for years, released a public statement.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: It was a very powerful statement, too.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: He articulated a really complex, nuanced grief. He spoke about
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: the profound heartbreak that has blanketed their church. But he
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: also made a very specific point to express gratitude for
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: the Angolan authorities.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Which you don't always see in these situations.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: No, you really don't. He stated that they monitored the
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: trial closely and they felt it was conducted fairly and
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: carried out with high integrity. He found genuine closure in
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: the thoroughness of the foreign justice system.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: That is a remarkable statement of grounded leadership. In moments
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: of intense, sensational grief, it is very easy for a
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: community to succumb to anger, xenophobia, or wild speculation.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Blaming the country where it happened.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Exactly. For a community leader to step up and publicly
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: validate the integrity of the Angolan court process shows a
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: deep commitment to the truth, however painful that truth is.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Pastor Easton also added that the congregation is praying that
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Jackie Schroyer will eventually find her way to the merciful,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: forgiving arms of God.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Wow. Right.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: And whether you share that theology or not, you have
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: to acknowledge the incredible fortitude it takes to offer a
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: prayer of grace for the person who brutally dismantled a
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: family within your care. It is the ultimate contrast to
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: the selfishness of the crime itself.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: It perfectly frames the dichotomy of this entire deep dive.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: On one side, you have an act of profound calculating malice,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: driven by self-preservation.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: And greed, arguably.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: True. But on the other side, You have an international
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: justice system, a mission organization, and a local community rallying
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: to provide accountability, truth, and ongoing care for the victims.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: So what does this all mean for you? We have
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: traveled a massive distance today, conceptually and geographically. We started
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: in a small, structured town in Minnesota where behavior is
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: regulated by community presence.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Where everyone is watching.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: We followed a family into the deep isolation of the
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Angolan bush. An environment so stripped of modern infrastructure that
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: a person could delude themselves into believing they were invisible
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: to the laws of consequence.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: That void we talked about.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: We deconstructed an assassination plot that was so blindingly arrogant,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: so fundamentally flawed in its reliance on the local security
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: guard and a traceable American weapon that it borders on
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: the absurd.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: And we explored the incredibly robust legal mechanisms, the cement
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: shoes of international conspiracy law, that local, highly competent Angolan
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: investigators utilized to trap the conspirators in a web of
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: their own making.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: We learned that the assumption of impunity in a developing
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: nation is a fatal miscalculation.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: It truly is.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: But as we close this out, I keep returning to
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: our initial discussion about the wilderness. We talked about how
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: a criminal views extreme isolation as an eraser, a vast,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: empty space that will swallow the evidence, swallow the noise,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: and swallow the guilt.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: That was Jackie's bet.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: But the reality we uncovered is the exact opposite. The
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: wilderness is not an eraser. It is the most powerful
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: magnifying glass imaginable.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: That's a great way to frame it.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: When you strip away the noise of the city, the
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: distractions of society, and the complexity of modern infrastructure, every
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: single thing you do out of place becomes undeniably obvious.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: There's nowhere to hide.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: The environment amplified the affair. It put a massive spotlight
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: on a $ 50, 000 transaction, and it made an American knife
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: scream for attention. The wilderness didn't hide the truth. It
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: isolated the truth so perfectly that the investigators couldn't possibly
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: miss it.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: It is a profound realization.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: The physical isolation of the bush ultimately reflected the psychological
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: isolation of the mastermind, exposing every single flaw in her design.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Which leaves me with a final lingering thought for you
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: to carry with you today. We spend a lot of
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: time analyzing how extreme isolation removes our societal mirrors. It
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: takes away the neighbors, the routines, and the social pressures
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: that keep our behavior in check.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: The things that keep us grounded.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: But here is the question you have to ask yourself.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: When a human being is completely severed from their home
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: culture and placed into an absolute void, does the immense
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: pressure of that isolation inevitably break their moral compass?
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Or.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Does extreme isolation simply strip away the costume of civilization,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: revealing the exact compass they had all along?