Latest / SisterSmart Leadership / 15: How to Recover from Work Burnout with Jenny

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15: How to Recover from Work Burnout with Jenny · SisterSmart Leadership

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I had found a job that I was pretty keen on.
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Like I, I was very excited about.
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It checked all the boxes, but I knew that unless I changed some fundamental
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things about how I was working, it was going to wind up being just like every
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other job that I've ever had ever.
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So that was what kickstarted our journey together.
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I'm Jill Avey, a career success coach, and this is Sister Smart Leadership, the
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show that explores how women can rise from director to vice president and beyond
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by fully leaning into their feminine energy as their biggest advantage.
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Let's get you one step closer to the recognition and promotion you deserve.
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Escaping burnout is an inside job, and a lot of my clients are surprised to
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hear that when they first start working with me, they're thinking, if only the
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company would change their behavior, then they could change their own behavior.
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But it's really usually works the other way around.
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If we change ourselves, then others start to react to us in a different way.
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And we can really find success in that way.
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And so I'm really excited for you to meet Jenny today, who is a
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client of mine who has just done an outstanding job with this issue.
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And she has gone from overworking to being effective and a leader instead.
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And so I really want you to hear her journey and how well
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this has worked out for her.
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Jenny is someone who I've known for a long time because she
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was originally my copywriter.
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And so she got to know my program and, and me through that process.
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And then when she decided she didn't want to be an entrepreneur anymore,
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and she wanted to work in the corporate world, her first try she
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found herself completely burned out.
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And so she decided when she got this new job that she really wanted it
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to be successful and she needed some help to make sure that that happened.
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So we have been working together for about a year and a half now,
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and it's been my great pleasure to watch her blossom and really shine.
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So I can't wait for you to meet her.
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I'm super excited for you to meet Jenny Eastwood today.
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She is a senior account manager for the social agency, which is a New
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Zealand division of Omnicom Media Group.
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And she's been really fun to work with, and I'm excited for you to hear her
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story about her leadership journey.
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So welcome, Jenny.
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It's so great to have you today.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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I'm so excited to be here and share about my journey because it's been
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so life changing and I just wish I could shout it from the rooftops
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whenever I have the opportunity.
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So I'm very pleased to be able to chat to you.
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So tell me a little bit about, you know, what it was like before we
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started working together and what made you want to join this program?
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So, for those who don't know myself or Jill we actually worked together, but
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Jill was my client when I was a freelance copywriter for a couple of years and.
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I was so amazed by everything I learned about the work that Jill does.
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And so when I decided I actually wanted to return to the corporate
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world and that being self employed and freelancing wasn't really my thing, I
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really couldn't let go of wanting to learn more from you, Jill, as a client,
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because I knew you were the real deal.
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There are so many fakes and shills out there, I think,
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and the online coaching world.
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And it's really hard to know who is real or who's legit, who can actually help you.
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And I knew that everything you had to say was very legit.
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I had already learned so much from you just in the time I had spent
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working with you as a copywriter.
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So when I first returned to the corporate world, I was working for a smaller
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boutique agency as a social media manager.
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And while I really enjoyed it, I'm ADHD.
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And so I do everything a hundred percent.
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I get really obsessed with something, but also I have no boundaries.
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I, I really struggle with perfectionism and invariably when I'm employed by
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someone, I tend to burn out and very quick, succession once I've started a
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role and that happened and my first role having returned to the corporate world,
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and I was feeling very, very disappointed that I had kind of fallen into the same
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patterns of every other job that I'd had.
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I had a bit of a reputation as a job hopper, I suppose.
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And I didn't want that.
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I didn't want to be a job hopper.
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And I recognized that the problem was me.
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I was the problem because I kept allowing certain behaviors, or I kept
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saying yes to things when I should have said no, and I didn't know how to
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establish any kind of healthy boundaries.
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So, I left that job without another job lined up, and I wanted to make
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sure that the next job I went into, I wasn't making the same mistakes
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again, because every employer will try and get the most out of their team.
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That is very normal.
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If you're, if you're a yes, man, and you do everything
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150%, they're going to love it.
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And of course, they're going to keep loading you up unless you put your
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foot down or unless you establish clear boundaries and ways of working.
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So I couldn't really blame them for taking advantage of.
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Me wanting to outshine and outsmart everybody else.
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So I knew that I had to make some real changes if I wanted to start
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a new role and enjoy it and grow and make a real tangible impact on
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the company that I was with, which is always what I've wanted to do.
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So I figured that this was the perfect time to reach out to you, Jill.
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And I knew that if there is one person on the planet who can help me
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figure out what I'm doing wrong and what I need to do differently, what
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behaviors I need to change, it was you.
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So that was kind of the line in the sand.
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I had found a job that I was pretty keen on.
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Like I, I was very excited about.
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It checked all the boxes, but I knew that unless I changed some fundamental
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things about how I was working, it was going to wind up being just like every
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other job that I've ever had ever.
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So that was what kickstarted our journey together.
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It did.
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And we used to have these great conversations when you were my copywriter
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and I knew, I knew you had so much potential and have been really happy
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to be joining you on this journey.
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So how's it gone for you?
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How has this worked out?
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When I tell you that I am truly not the same person that I was
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when we began working together.
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And I guess it's been about a year and a half now, or coming up on a year and
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a half since we first started working together in a coaching capacity and
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I guess I didn't really know what to expect going into career coaching
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because again, I've done a lot of courses, a lot of online courses and
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nothing's ever really made a material difference in how I operate, but I still
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had a very open mind about everything.
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And I also was very aware that You were not my therapist.
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So I had to make sure that what I was getting out of our
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sessions was with that in mind.
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And I wasn't expecting you to perform the role of a therapist when that
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is not what you were here to do.
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So, I have found cumulatively over the time we work together that.
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I look back now and I cannot believe how far I've come and the reason it was, it's
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like little milestones along the way.
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So you and I would have a session or I would do a module and I would
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learn some information and then.
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Because of the nature of the corporate world that week, there'd
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be a scenario that would come up that would force me to actually
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have to put the work into practice.
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And there were some really tough moments for me personally that came
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up, things that really challenged me that would have undone me.
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Prior to us working together, for example, I really struggle with perfectionism.
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I think I was a 10 on the saboteurs scale for hyperachiever.
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And so how that would manifest for me is if a client or my boss does things
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in a way that I think is not as good or inefficient or then I would, I would
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feel really frustrated or if I made a suggestion on how I think things could
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be done better and it wasn't implemented, then that would really frustrate me,
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which in hindsight is super narcissistic, but that is how I used to operate.
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And so this has always been a big problem for me.
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And very quickly it came up as being a major challenge where I had, I was working
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on a major project with a very big client.
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They did not have all their ducks in a row.
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We shall just say it was quite dysfunctional and quite disorganized
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and essentially every trigger for me on what would tip me over the edge.
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And it wasn't easy.
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And I remember you and I working together through that time and I
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would come to you and I'd be pulling my hair out and stressing and I'd
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have no idea how to deal with it.
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And then after one of our hour long sessions, I would walk away with.
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Oh, just like light bulb moment.
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And suddenly I'd be like, okay, it's so clear.
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Like it's, I know what to do now.
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And, and it's not even you telling me for an hour, Oh, here's what you should do.
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It's me sharing the difficulty and the problem and you leading me to
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discover that answer on my own.
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So a lot of listening, not a lot of.
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You talking, which is kind of incredible as well.
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And I think it really speaks to your actual ability as a coach.
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So, there were very tangible scenarios like that.
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And then with everyone that would pop up.
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That'd get easier and easier for me to deal with that's not to
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say it's easy now, like there's still things that challenge me.
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90 percent of the time I'm like, Oh, I've come so far.
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I'm such a different person and then something will pop up and
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it will send me spiraling again.
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But the difference is that now I have the self awareness, I have the, the toolkit.
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I can recognize a trigger or a stressor or a challenge for what it is, and
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rather than letting it undo me and send me into a spiral of stress or
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frustration, I can look at it rationally and I can see it for what it is.
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And I have experience dealing with these situations in a healthy manner.
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Over the last year and a half and I can just approach it and a far
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more relaxed and rational manner And now I actually enjoy it's crazy.
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I never thought I'd get here.
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I really love my job I really love my job and I even enjoy the stresses and
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the frustrations and the challenges and I can laugh about these things
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now like when issues arise it doesn't Send me over the edge, I
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can actually see it for what it is.
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I've complete compartmentalization between the challenges at work and who I am and
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my worth and my value as a person and.
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I can enjoy the feeling and the satisfaction of handling it well,
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because it shows me how far I've come, and it's a signal to me of my
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own personal growth and achievement.
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When I first joined this company, I didn't really have a
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plan like a, a long term plan.
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I didn't really necessarily see myself growing steadily up the ladder.
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But unsurprisingly, the more you are growing and evolving and getting to
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know yourself, understanding your strengths and weaknesses better, you're
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obviously way better at your job.
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And what it has also given me the time that our time working together is a
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clearer understanding of what I like to do and what I don't like to do.
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And I'm also no longer conflict avoidant, which was a huge problem for me.
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So I don't have any issues and asking for what I want within reason.
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But if I feel something needs to be done, or I need to have
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a hard conversation, or I.
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And looking to try new things with additional responsibility, or
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maybe there are things that I know I'm not so great at and would be
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better outsourced to somebody else.
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I'm not scared of having those conversations anymore.
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And so when it came time, we had a bit of a internal restructure and I
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felt that the role I was doing was actually more of a senior account
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director role than the role I was in.
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I was so proud to be able to calmly sit down with my managers
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and have a conversation about what I felt I was actually doing.
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How I would like to see that become official and also what value I felt I
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could bring to the company should they come to the party and, agree to an
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official promotion specific steps or specific things I identified I could
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do and I could provide to add value to the company over the coming months.
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So, I wasn't just asking them or telling them, oh, you need to give
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me a promotion because I'm so great.
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It's like.
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I'm really willing to rise to a challenge.
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I see myself progressing through the company.
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These are the specific areas I believe I can grow and add value, AKA bring
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in more money to the bottom line for the company to justify this.
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So, you know, I'm not just expecting them to give me handouts.
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I'm, I'm going to earn my keep.
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They really appreciated that.
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It was really not a question for them.
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I was very grateful for how they saw the commitment and the dedication I've put
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in, I think for any employer as well, because I didn't do any of this coaching
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with you through them, it wasn't something work had put me up to, they hadn't, you
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know, put me on to any career development.
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This is all work I'm doing myself of my own volition, because I want to be better.
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I think a decent employer can see those things, recognize when they've
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got a staff member who is committed to becoming better without them needing
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to lead them, lead a horse to water.
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So it's been a really rewarding period of time, both for myself, knowing that
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I now have the skills to cope with most challenging scenarios, and also seeing
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my employer recognize and celebrate and reward those achievements and the way that
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I've been continue to grow and do better.
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And I've got amazing clients now.
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I've got massive accounts that there's no way I would have been able to handle
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and deal with the challenges that comes with running enterprise level brands.
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So it's been, it's been great.
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I was just going to mention that, that your clients have seen all this
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change as well, and that your executive presence is, you know, allowing you
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to take on much bigger, much bigger clients and a much bigger role with them.
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One of the clients I work with at the bank and I'm quite heavily involved in a lot
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of their various projects at the moment.
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And there was one project I was working on, but it wasn't really
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within my area of expertise, it was something out that I don't really
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have a lot of experience doing.
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And I really enjoyed working on it because, and again, this comes
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back to having worked with you.
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And now, even if there is something that I don't love doing or doesn't light
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my fire so to speak, I now view these things as an opportunity to learn and
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upscale because I realize, I recognize that all of this is valuable experience.
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That being said, there came a time where my workload with the stuff I am
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an expert in on this client's portfolio became such that it didn't make sense for
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me to continue to work on this account or that particular project anymore.
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And I could hand it off to the team who specifically specialize in that area.
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And my stakeholder at the company was so devastated to lose me off
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of that particular project and she phoned me personally afterwards after
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we made the announcement to ask why she couldn't work with me anymore.
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And I saw her at an event last week and she again brought up how sad she was that
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she didn't have me on the account anymore.
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And that I found just, it really, it touched me because that was a
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really challenging project for me.
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It was really tough.
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It was not always fun but even on the days that it was stressful I could
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recognize the value in being on it.
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And I loved that stakeholder as well.
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She was such a beautiful person and I really liked her as a person.
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And so that was, it was great just to get to know her and then for her to be
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so open and her gratitude of our time together was, was so touching and just
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really lovely because you don't always get that when you work in agency, you
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do not always get that from clients.
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It's usually the opposite.
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Yes, there is.
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Yes, there has been very different reactions in the past.
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So that one, it was just a lovely, lovely moment.
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And to me really felt like, indirect recognition, I suppose, of how much more
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competent I've become in my, in my work.
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Yeah, that's fantastic.
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So is there any particular parts of the program that you can point to that
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were particularly helpful for you?
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Yes.
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I mean, it's all cumulative.
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Everything is great.
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But the very first piece of work that we do together about understanding your
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strengths and weaknesses, where we go through personality tests, the saboteurs,
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for me, that actually is something that I come back to literally every single day.
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I run my life in my bullet journal.
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That is how I operate.
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I, I love to be analog and write stuff down and I can't
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really do digital planners.
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It just doesn't work for me.
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I'm a physical note taker and I have created a spread at the front
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of my journal with all of my career coaching notes and within that
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it leads with my saboteurs and my strengths and weaknesses and my
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unrealized strengths and weaknesses.
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My Myers Briggs and just, I mean, everybody probably has different
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opinions on these sorts of things.
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But for me, I love that stuff.
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And I like to be able to put a name to something.
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So when a challenge comes up for me during the day, I can sit back, be objective
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and recognize, Oh, that's my restlessness saboteur and instead of being at the
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mercy of this gut instinct, or like, I don't know, this little tiny voice
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in my head telling me to do something.
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I can be more objective and make a calm, rational decision.
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I truly come back to those, those points every single day.
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Another one that has been very helpful for me is delegation, the art of
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delegation, because I suck at delegating.
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And still now, still, this is not something I'm good at.
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I, I'm very much constantly working on how to get better at delegating
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and how to trust people with tasks.
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And part of the problem for me is.
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I'm very busy during the day, extremely busy.
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And it feels off.
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I often think when I need to delegate something, I'm like, Oh, the time
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it's going to take for me to properly delegate and brief the person.
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How does I just do it myself?
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That is a lie.
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That is complete fallacy.
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And I know that, but it's still something that I'm working through.
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So I, I come back to the rules of delegation, principles
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of delegation all the time.
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I also have my delegation checklist.
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In that coaching section so I can refer back to it.
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I have a new girl on my team that we recently hired who is amazing and it
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definitely does help when you've got a really competent person on your team that,
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you know, you can give information to and they'll take initiative and run with it.
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But even still, it is.
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I think it's going to be a bit of a lifelong journey for me to
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get really good at delegating.
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Another area and that kind of within that same vein, reducing the number of turns.
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So when you do delegate, when you do brief something in giving a really
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clear brief so that we don't have to constantly go back and redo things.
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Only have 1 or 2 rounds of feedback whenever we're doing anything creative.
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That has been really, really valuable for me to all about the
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art, like communication in general.
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Another something else that really stuck with me and I think about often,
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but about a leader in your team is the one who isn't afraid to shoulder
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the blame if something goes wrong.
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And that's not to say, oh, it's my fault.
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I screwed up, but just remove it from being.
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An issue so that we can move forward for towards solutions.
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And I think we are so prone to leading our egos, not just us, but
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other leaders or like so called leaders who are in leadership
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positions, but aren't necessarily great managers or good with people.
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And you see teams and squads get held back all the time because something
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will go wrong and I've just kicked the can around and like pass the blame and
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try and find someone to pin the problem on instead of actually just owning it
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and moving forward towards a solution.
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And I'll give you a very clear example of when this just last week
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was something that a problem came up where we had a very last minute
23:10
brief with a client fast turnaround.
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This particular client in general, there's a lot of legal hoops that we
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have to jump through whenever we are doing anything creative, which is fine.
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We know that and we can build that into our processes.
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However, there was a miscommunication between us and them around the timeframes
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and the client expressed that they were disappointed because they had
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specifically asked me a few days prior, will this be ready by this date?
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And I hadn't, I had communicated with my team about our timeframe, but I
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hadn't communicated with the client.
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And there are all sorts of ways that it could have been put on the client
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as being their fault that they didn't understand how much time we might need.
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And they only sent us the assets we required the very morning
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that they expected it to be due.
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But none of that is helpful.
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hmm.
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of that is helpful.
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Trying to find a reason for it to be not your fault.
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It's just not helpful.
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So instead, and I was speaking to a few others on my team and I
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was like, Oh, how should I reply?
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And it's okay to take time to reply.
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I think to like in a situation where there's a bit of tension, it's okay to
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take a breather, to go and get a coffee.
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Just have a bit of a walk.
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Like it's good to not reply when you're in a frazzled state.
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And I decided contrary to the advice from everybody around me, I just
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decided, no, I'm just going to own it.
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Like ultimately I'm the account director.
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It falls with me.
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I'm the conduit here between the client and the creative team.
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It's my fault.
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So I just replied to her and said, I'm, I'm really sorry.
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This was a miscommunication from us with the lesson here is I need to
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make sure that we communicate with you clearly and early on to avoid
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any other mistakes happening done.
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And she was so stoked.
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She was so thrilled.
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She's like, Oh, thank you so much.
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Like that's all she needed to hear.
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And now we can just move on with our day and keep going.
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I think about that all the time, taking the blame.
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And again, like that's a situation where , it's not about saying, oh, we
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screwed up and all of this it's just, all it takes is just some acknowledgement
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of something, not trying to make it somebody else's problem anymore.
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And this is something that really amazes me from the time we've been
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working together is every time we have a session or every time I go through
25:36
module, I have like a light bulb moment.
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And I kind of move through the other agencies throughout the week
25:42
because there's different people and different teams that I need
25:45
to chat to about various projects.
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And I can see examples of the challenges that we, we have discussed popping up with
25:54
management across all the other teams.
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And that's not a criticism.
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Like it's not, it's just, realize how we're not taught this stuff.
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Like nobody, we are not taught the stuff.
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You have to figure it out on your own.
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And if you're leading, if you're learning from the leaders above you,
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it is rare that you get a really incredible leader who encompasses all
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of these things around communication and different leadership styles.
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But most people don't know any of this and I think it's a real sign of
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growth and evolution when you can see and identify the behaviors that would
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trip you up or for me the behaviors that would trip me up I can see those
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things happening with other people but I can see it and I I can recognize it.
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Like these things aren't elusive to me anymore.
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They don't teach you this stuff in school.
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They should.
26:53
They should.
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That and budgeting.
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Yeah.
26:57
Exactly.
26:58
I love what you were saying about the, the taking the blame piece because I've read
27:02
studies on this where hospitals do this.
27:04
Hospitals make mistakes sometimes and when they take the blame and they
27:07
apologize to the families, they get, much less lawsuits and things like that,
27:12
that are going on because the families really just want to be acknowledged.
27:16
And so it's, it's pretty powerful what that can do.
27:21
I find personally too, if I have an issue with someone or, or, or a business
27:26
or whatever, if they immediately own it, then I'm like, Oh, that's nice.
27:33
That's good.
27:34
Like it.
27:35
And it's almost endearing.
27:36
I find it in, it endears them to you.
27:40
If they handle a complaint or an, or a disappointment in a grace, gracious
27:47
manner, they talk about when you're in a fight and it's like two brick
27:51
walls leaning up against each other.
27:53
And if you're both just doubling down, then it's just these two brick walls.
27:56
But if one just owns it.
27:59
Then suddenly, you know, the conflict just collapses and there's nothing for the
28:05
other party to push up against anymore.
28:08
And I always, I like that visualization of it's like, I'm
28:11
just going to end this here.
28:12
You know, I just, I'm just going to draw a line in the sand.
28:15
We're not going to, this is not going to become an issue anymore.
28:18
We're just going to, so we can move forward and focus on other stuff.
28:21
Yeah.
28:22
Good stuff.
28:23
I think you had a little bit of our process around overcoming busyness as
28:26
well, and deciding what to work on and what not to, and making those calls.
28:32
Yes.
28:33
Something that you taught me very, very early on in our time working together, and
28:39
this is also drawn from your experience working with me as a copywriter.
28:44
We spent a lot of time talking about what is good enough.
28:48
And how I would always do things 1000 percent but I needed to learn how to
28:54
do things that were just good enough.
28:57
And.
28:58
I realized again, early on into my new role, probably three months on into it.
29:03
And part of why I was burning out over and over again at different
29:09
companies is that I'd get really excited about a creative idea.
29:14
I'd want to really wow them and show them how capable I
29:19
was and how great I could be.
29:22
And so they'd brief us to do something but I wouldn't just fulfill the brief.
29:27
I would go above and beyond, which is great.
29:30
Like you want people to go above and beyond, but I would deliver creative
29:33
ideas or go far outside the scope of what was actually briefed in.
29:40
And whilst that was exciting to me because I had a lot of creative
29:44
ideas, if the client then doesn't buy it or doesn't use it or doesn't
29:48
care, it felt like a personal attack.
29:50
It felt like a criticism on me and my abilities that they didn't
29:55
immediately fall in love with this extra piece of work I'd done for
29:58
them that they never asked for.
30:00
Right.
30:01
And in agency too, it can be harsh.
30:04
Like sometimes you'll be briefed on a project and you will only
30:09
be working on that project and halfway through it gets canned.
30:12
I had to really learn how to divorce myself from the outcomes of my work,
30:19
basically.
30:20
And also, since the work we're actually briefed and paid to do could get scrapped
30:27
at any moment anyway, why would you deliver a piece of work that they didn't
30:32
ask for, that isn't inside the brief?
30:36
When that might never see the light of day and this might sound like a,
30:42
depressing way to operate, but instead for me, it's been really freeing.
30:47
So now when I get briefed in on a project, I do what I've been briefed to do.
30:51
And nothing else.
30:53
Mm hmm.
30:53
And I save those extra creative ideas for when the time is right.
31:00
So we, for example, every now and then a client will have a creative sprint
31:07
where it's an all agency huddle and they are planning for an exciting launch
31:14
and they want to hear all your ideas.
31:17
And that is fun.
31:18
Like that is really fun.
31:19
And those times do come.
31:21
So.
31:23
The rest of the time I do what they've asked me to do.
31:25
And if I think I've got a few extra ideas that they haven't maybe
31:30
considered, then firstly, I will answer the brief before anything.
31:35
But I think for me, it's part of time management, trying to get my daily
31:40
to do list down to as few things as possible, because otherwise your
31:45
list of things to do will expand at the time you have, and I will just
31:49
make more things, I'll make more.
31:52
Like jobs for myself
31:53
Mm hmm.
31:54
and instead now I focus on only doing exactly what the client needs
31:59
from me because that, that allows me to first of all, be clearer in my
32:06
delegation, because I can tell my team, this is the brief here is the brief.
32:12
This is the deadline.
32:13
This is what we're doing together.
32:15
I also tell them.
32:17
Save that additional creative ideas that you have save it for when the
32:20
time is right, because otherwise you will burn out like I do it.
32:24
hmm.
32:24
Mm
32:25
and so I feel that more than anything, that was the key thing
32:30
for me to learn and get good at, because that is what was undoing me.
32:34
And if you get to the end of the day and you're just buzzing and you've
32:37
still got creative energy to burn, then direct it into your own pursuits.
32:41
Like, you know, come home and do a course if you want, or like
32:45
come home and draw or write.
32:47
Or, but if you're doing it at work and you're doing it because you
32:49
want the client to love you, don't.
32:51
Because all you're going to do is just destroy yourself, save
32:56
it for when the time is right.
32:57
And you have the opportunity, you've been given the opportunity
33:00
to run with it and shine.
33:02
Yeah.
33:02
And I, I mean, I see this all the time, for people that aren't in creative roles,
33:07
it can look like, going the extra mile on something or raising your hand to do
33:11
something that is not even being asked of you, or just seeing a problem and
33:16
going out and fixing it, whether anybody else thinks it's a problem or not, and
33:21
so often we're solving problems and we don't get any appreciation for it because
33:25
nobody else thought it was a problem.
33:27
So we tend to do so much work and then with all the responsibilities
33:32
that women have at home and additional responsibilities at work that men
33:37
don't always share of planning meetings and doing parties and
33:41
all kinds of things that, that women get piled on their plates.
33:44
And then we end up just overloaded and burned out, like you experienced.
33:49
So
33:49
Especially cause the client's only paying a certain amount.
33:51
So you know that they might like your idea, but they're like,
33:56
well, we didn't ask for this.
33:57
We don't have the budget for it.
33:59
So
34:01
Right.
34:02
I think, to assume, Oh, I'm just going to give them all of these things.
34:06
It's not necessarily, it doesn't necessarily show how great you are.
34:09
Just be great at what they've asked you to do.
34:12
Yeah.
34:12
I love it.
34:13
I love it.
34:15
I just lastly wanted to ask you have you had any thoughts about
34:19
your feminine style of leadership?
34:21
If this has helped you to understand what it is as a woman that you
34:25
bring to the workplace and how you might take best advantage of that?
34:28
I have come a long way in the gender issues of the workplace
34:37
since we began working together.
34:39
it used to really rile me up the bias in the workplace And
34:44
now it still riles me out.
34:46
But now I understand it and I lean into it and with a view to being
34:56
able to just work with it because you can't, it's so hard to swim upstream.
35:02
That being said, I think my strength in leadership is definitely around
35:08
empathy and listening and my ability to connect with people and That
35:17
is a great strength, but also my weaknesses lie in that confrontation.
35:23
I'm not as straight up quick to the point as some of my male counterparts are.
35:30
It's something I'm working on, but I'm also aware that I need to strike
35:33
the right balance because I know that as a female, it doesn't come across
35:37
the same way if you are short, sharp, direct, as it would, if you're a male.
35:44
So, I have found it empowering to understand the differences
35:49
in female and male leadership.
35:51
It's weird.
35:52
And I don't always agree with it, but it is what it is.
35:55
And so I think I am still learning because I'm still very early on in my journey.
36:01
And this is very much.
36:03
The start of where I hope to get in terms of my leadership abilities, but I try
36:09
and vary my leadership styles, depending on who I'm working with, but I feel like
36:15
I'm also constantly learning in terms of understanding, watching and observing
36:21
how my male senior leadership around me operates my female senior leadership
36:27
around me operates, and then what my clients and my team respond to as well
36:32
so that I can make sure I'm providing the best leadership for each situation.
36:40
And something I've come really far in is not making decisions
36:44
based on my own personal emotions.
36:45
And it's instead stepping back and thinking about.
36:49
What's actually best for the wider team or who would this, when I'm making a
36:56
decision, who is this going to help?
36:58
Who's this actually going to help?
36:59
Yeah, absolutely.
37:00
I think you're in a really interesting situation too, because, you know, the
37:04
creative agency advertising space has been such a male dominated business
37:10
for a very long time, and yet you have a, this amazing female leader
37:15
that you work under, and so you've got really a lot of influences from
37:19
both sides, which is really great.
37:21
I'm so lucky.
37:22
I have just the most incredible female manager who is the way that she handles
37:30
different people is truly a masterclass.
37:35
Like watching how she interacts with the male C suite team
37:40
versus smaller teams underneath.
37:43
And those of us who are having a bad day, Oh, queen, like absolute queen.
37:49
The nuance is just phenomenal that, and she's got like three kids
37:56
of her own at home, three boys.
37:57
It's just, oh man, she is truly, it's phenomenal to watch and,
38:05
and watching her operate every day is just, it's a, it's a gift.
38:11
You took the job because of her, didn't
38:12
did.
38:13
I did.
38:13
I literally, I, I actually did.
38:15
I took the job because of her.
38:16
She, I had heard such great things about her and before I started working
38:21
there, I asked if she would have lunch with me so I could basically pick her
38:25
brain and make sure I wasn't entering into a job that wasn't going to be
38:29
a good fit I trusted her to give me.
38:31
Her honest opinion on whether or not I would thrive in the agency world.
38:36
And I knew she would be honest with me, even if she wanted me to
38:39
come work for her, I knew she'd tell me the truth if I asked her.
38:42
I was so blown away by how she came across and all my interactions with her
38:50
before I took the job that I decided to get a job there because of her.
38:54
I always say you're hiring your boss when you take a new job, you know.
38:59
Ugh, we'd be at a loss if she left.
39:02
But there's a lot of us there who are there because of her as well.
39:05
You know, I'm not alone in that.
39:06
And so that's pretty, pretty special.
39:09
I always like to ask people who they look up to and who is a woman in
39:12
leadership that, that they like to use as a role model is, would she
39:17
be the one or do you have others?
39:19
It's definitely her.
39:20
She is amazing.
39:22
I wouldn't want to have her job to be clear.
39:24
She's got a hard job.
39:25
I think it would be so, so challenging, but she's definitely the most phenomenal
39:33
woman I've seen in real life in action.
39:37
Like there's always been female leaders of companies who I look up
39:40
to like Whitney Wolfherd, whatever, but in terms of companies I've
39:45
worked in, she's the best I've ever, ever seen I've ever come across.
39:49
That's great to hear.
39:50
I love that.
39:51
Thank you so much for sharing your story with us, Jenny.
39:54
I know that you're going to inspire our listeners and I just really appreciate you
39:59
taking the time to, to chat with me today.
40:02
Thank you because I'm so happy.
40:04
If not for you, I would have quit my job like a year ago in an
40:07
angry huff over something small.
40:09
So instead I just got promoted and I love my job.
40:13
So thank you
40:16
That's definitely a testament.
40:19
for real.
40:20
Yes.
40:20
If you found Jenny's story inspiring or helpful, please let us know in the
40:23
comments, which part you liked best.
40:25
And if you'd like to hear more about the sisters in leadership process and
40:29
how it might work for you, download my private podcast on the seven step
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com website, the links in the show notes.
40:38
And if you want to dive deeper into women's leadership and how to
40:41
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40:46
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40:49
And if that's aligned with you, I'd love to have you be part of this community
40:53
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40:59
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41:03
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41:16
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