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I Was a Homeless Crack Addict · Recovering Out Loud

0:00
Hi there, welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud
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Podcast, the show where we get real about addiction and mental
0:07
health recovery. I'm so glad you're here.
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If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or
0:13
alcohol, please reach out to me on any social media platform at
0:18
Recovering Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at
0:21
recoveringoutloudpod@gmail.com. Enjoy the show.
0:27
Thanks, Heather. Thanks so much for coming down.
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I got introduced to you from your cousin Julie, who is like
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my day one OG listener. I love her to death.
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Thank you so much. But yeah, she's great.
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She sends me the she sent me a message the other day that just
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like nearly made me cry. I was talking about getting
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fired at work. And yeah, she just.
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She sent me a message. She goes, you know, don't worry
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about it. It happened for a reason.
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And this is what you should do, you know, put your phone down
0:56
for the weekend, take your wife out and do something nice and
1:00
just forget about it. And I was like, God damn, like,
1:02
oh, that was so I needed to hear that.
1:03
You know, it's just nice to have people in your corner.
1:06
And I was thinking about this today, but I can this is
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something I'm working on today. I can have a million people tell
1:12
me good job. You're doing great, you're
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helping people, you know, good on you.
1:16
And then it's never, it's still never enough for me, right?
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And it's like I, I started this podcast to stay sober myself,
1:23
which is, you know, today, check, I'm staying sober, you
1:26
know, goal accomplished, which is great.
1:28
And I have to remind myself that that's a big deal because I
1:31
couldn't get 6 minutes together at, at one point in my life, But
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also to at least, you know, try and help at least one person,
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right? I always try to, I, I say a
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prayer before I do every episode.
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I'm like, help me help one person, you know, and if I've,
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I've done that, I've done my job, but I have to be reminded
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of that. I have to work on that because I
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don't know if you're anything like me, but I, it's never
1:51
enough, you know, I always want more, right?
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And it was the same with drugs. It's the same with, you know,
1:56
comments, likes, love from other people, gambling, whatever,
2:00
whatever the case may be, right. So why don't we do this?
2:03
Why don't you introduce yourself a little bit, Heather?
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Tell us how you got into recovery and how you you came to
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be who you are today. So my name's Heather.
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I'm an addict. Well, I was homeless.
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I was homeless for about two years just using, stealing,
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doing whatever I could to to use and remember laying in that
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park. And for two weeks I prayed every
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morning crying just God, please send me somebody to help me.
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I don't want this life anymore. And my cousin ended up showing
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up looking for me. And I remember sitting there and
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I, he was telling me his story. To be honest, I wasn't
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listening. I wasn't really hearing much.
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I just wanted to use right. But then I remember him saying
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to me, he's like, so how's life, Heather?
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I'm like, oh, life's great. He's like, Heather, you're
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homeless. I'm like, yeah, but I don't have
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to answer to anyone. I can come and go as I please
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and do what I want. He goes, I got an idea.
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How about we get a mirror and you can tell me how great life
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is. And that's when my heart sunk
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and I'm like, all right, let's let's go get some help.
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So I went to treatment for six months and then went home.
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I didn't want to go home. I was like, can I stay longer?
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They're like, no, it's time for you to go.
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And six days later I relapsed. I didn't want to come back to
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Toronto because it just, all the people I knew in Toronto, we're
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just like us, right? That's I grew up with them.
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I grew up here my whole life. So I knew I know a lot of people
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from the West End all the way downtown, right?
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So it was hard and then so I went hard for 24 hours and then
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I got sober for two months being down here.
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And then on my 2 month day I went and celebrated at the bar
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and I went back out for a month and now today I have just 14
4:03
months sober. Nice.
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Awesome. Yeah, it's a struggle though,
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right? Like, you know, they, I remember
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hearing people say like after your first year, that's when the
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work begins. And I'm like, what are you
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talking about? But it's true, like the last two
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months I've been struggling and it's because emotions, what are
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emotions? I don't know what emotions are.
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I don't know how to deal with these feelings and what have
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you. So it's definitely been a
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struggle the last two months. Do I wanna use when I'm super
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tired? Yeah, those thoughts come in my
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head, but other than that, no. But I mean, again, when I'm that
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whole thing is real. Hungry, Angry.
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Angry. Lonely.
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Tired. And when I'm tired, that's
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that's the hardest part for me. Like it's just a constant.
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I'll be laying there and I just what if I use but I play that
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tape forward and I'm like, no, I don't want to.
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So that's when I call people and get the help I need.
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What's the fantasy for you? I know everyone's a little bit
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different, but like for me, it's like I don't even crave the
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drugs anymore. It's more so when I have these
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cravings or, or thoughts that come into my head and they come
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out of nowhere, right? There's a reason usually behind
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it, which I dig deeper in now, but I didn't know before.
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For me, it's like I just missed that freedom that you talked
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about. I don't have to answer to
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anyone, right? When you said that, I was like,
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oh, I get that. I think it's just getting out of
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my own head. My thoughts are are are crazy
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and see it last week I was sitting there and my head just
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started spinning and it was so messed up.
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Like my cousin works at a recovery center and he wasn't
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answering right then right there and then two of my friends
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weren't answering right then right there.
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So I was like I was back out there.
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All of a sudden I thought my cousin thinks I've relapsed.
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He's called my two friends and told them not to answer my
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messages, 'cause he's gonna come home and drug test me.
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And I, I just started freaking out.
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And then one thing I've learned is writing stuff down for me.
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I can't think, 'cause it just snowballs and gets worse and
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worse and worse. So what I did is I grabbed my
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journal, started writing everything down, and eventually
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everything started to make sense again, right?
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But it, it brought me right back.
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Like, I started getting paranoid looking out my window, like, and
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once that started, I'm like, no, I don't wanna feel this way
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anymore. So I picked up that pen, started
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writing, and for me, that's how I talk to my higher power.
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I can't do it in my head. I can't because if there's no
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meaning behind it, it's just, they're just words in my head,
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right? So writing is a a big, big thing
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for me. Yeah.
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And that that is, it's funny, as you were talking, I was thinking
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about that. It's like this kind of, I can't
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call anyone 'cause like, let's be realistic, people aren't
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always gonna answer when you need them in that moment, right?
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And you did everything that, you know, presumably counselors
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rehab taught you is to reach out when people don't answer.
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Now what? I'm just stuck with this like
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thought in my head that I'm thinking about tomorrow.
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I'm, I'm spinning these stories in my head, which I can relate
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to. I'm projecting my, my movie onto
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the world. You know, this person did this,
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this person that. It's already like I'm and then
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I'm in a dumpster fire. I love that, though.
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It's like I write it down. I, I tell somebody, I pray about
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it, that's it's all the same thing, right?
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Yeah, And what, after I was done writing, I called, I called my
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sponsor, right? And she's like, I'm very proud
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of you. And I'm like, well, I need you
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so just as much as you need me, right.
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So. And I've and I, that's what I've
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just realized, like getting on my knees and praying isn't for
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every, It's not for me, right? For other people, sure.
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But for me it's journaling. Like even last night before I
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went to bed, I didn't want to. I'm like, Oh, I'm, I'm in a good
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place, I'm good, but I'm like, no.
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So instead I just wrote and I thanked God for the day and
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everything that happened in that day and all the all the good
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that came that. Day so cause yeah, because for
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me at least and I think it's like once I start getting out of
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the routine of things it's very easy it's like not going to the
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gym like all of a sudden a week's gone by and I'm like I
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don't really need the gym anymore my health's not
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important, right and that's something I've been struggling
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with lately is like getting my ass out of my head my house out
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of my head too. But I have this social media
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problem where I just scroll and like sure they're all
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motivational sober videos and great but it's like I feel like
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shit after. Yeah, I have a problem with that
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for sure. With scrolling, yeah.
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What? So sorry, go ahead.
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That's OK, I find in recovery now, though.
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Like for me, I was, I, I became a thief, right?
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And stealing was a big thing. And I find that's still one of
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my biggest things that go through my head.
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Like I haven't, but I'll be in a store and I'll be like, it's
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just be so much easier just to walk and to get that rush right.
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Like I did it. Yeah, I got away with it, right?
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But I haven't because I know eventually what that leads to.
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It's gonna be guilt and I'm gonna pick up again, right?
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So, but I find that's probably the hardest in my recovery thus
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far. As is the is the stealing and
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it's not from people, it's from corporations.
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That's how I justify it, right? But either way, it's no good.
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Yeah, yeah, 'cause to your point is you have to go to bed at
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night and am I happy with how I acted today?
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No. Am I going to tell somebody
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about it? Maybe.
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But if I don't, right. It's just I'm a bad person.
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I'm a bad person, I'm a bad person.
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I'm using, right. Yeah, thanks for sharing that.
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That's I think that's important to, for people to, to note that
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we don't, you know, it says in in the literature, it's like we
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are not Saints, right? And when I, I remember when I
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heard that for the first time, it was like, oh, thank God.
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Like I'm, I don't have to be perfect in recovery because I'm
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not and I don't ever want to be. And it's not, you know,
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progress, not perfection, right? But to your point, it's like we
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quit drugs and we start looking for other things to kind of that
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rush or, you know, we fall back on old behaviors.
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For me, it's lying. Like lying was is all liable to
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stupid as shit today. And it doesn't even make sense
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to me. Sometimes I'm just like, why did
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I do that? So I had a therapist that would
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always tell me, like when you tell those little white lies of
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I don't know, even just like I'm fine when I'm not fine, it's
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like you go back and you say, hey, like I lied about that,
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right? And, and something happens when
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you kind of admit, even if it's no matter how stupid or
10:24
inconsequential, it builds up and over time.
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Now I'm lying about my cravings or whatever.
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Right. Yeah.
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You tell one small lie and you got to pack up that lie with
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another lie with another lie. It's so exhausting.
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You have to remember that first lie, right?
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Yeah, I used to have AI, had a recruiter one time.
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I don't know why I'm remembering this now, but I was looking for
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a job when I got fired from one of my many jobs.
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I've gotten fired for because of my drug use, you know, I just
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couldn't show up. He would always like, should I
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tell them that I have been in between jobs and, you know, I
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went to treatment and this and that and like that doesn't look
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good. And he's like, he wasn't in the
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program at all. But he's like, dude, honestly,
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I've done this for a long time. It's so much easier just to tell
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the truth. You don't have to go into detail
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about it, but you tell the truth.
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And then you, that's exactly what he said.
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He's like, you don't have to remember the movie plot that you
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told this guy. And they're like, wait, did I
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tell this guy that or this girl that or whatever.
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It's exhausting you. Know I I was open at my work.
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I was nervous at first, but I ran into somebody at a meeting
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from your work. From my home?
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Oh no. And I like was walking out and I
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paused and I'm like, well, this is awkward.
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And I and I asked her like, do you think it's it's OK for me to
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talk about to work about it? And I did.
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And I was honest about it. And, you know, a bunch of the
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women showed up at my one year. No, I started bawling like, Oh
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my God, yeah. It was pretty beautiful.
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Like just the support I have even at work is pretty pretty
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awesome. Yeah, and I know anonymity is
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important for a lot of people. And when I I worked in corporate
11:53
my whole life, just recently pivoted over to mental health
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and I'm in school for social service work now to become a
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counsellor, hopefully because I don't know, I, I had a moment in
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rehab this last time where I was hearing one of the counsellors
12:05
talk about his purpose. And I, I feel like I've never
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had purpose, right, other than like helping other addicts and
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Alcoholics, which is great. That's a huge purpose today
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still to me, right. I was meeting with a sponsee on
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on Monday and he called me after and you know, I thought it went
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OK, right. We think like, whatever, it's
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like I'm just doing the next right thing.
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I'm not going to change anyone's life.
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He called me after and he's like, man, I just wanted to
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like, he's like, I'm buzzing like thank you, like I, I told
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my wife like I'm I'm really happy to have met you.
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And here I am thinking like whatever, it was just a coffee
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and but I'm you know, something must have been said.
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My actions, whatever. It's like, it's a beautiful
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thing that we, we get to be able to not change people's lives
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directly, but we get to plant a seed and like do the next right
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thing and attraction, not promotion.
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You know, I'm not promoting sobriety to anybody.
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Like I always say that it's like if you think you can control and
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have fun with it and you're you're still OK, more power to
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you, right. Hopefully it it brings you to a
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point of of some kind of bottom to your where you want to make a
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change or or not. Maybe you're one of those normal
13:05
people that I don't understand and never you can use cocaine on
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the weekends and then go to work.
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I don't get it for you. Yeah, honestly, more power to
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you. Wasn't wasn't me.
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I've tried many times, you know. It's pretty cool though.
13:16
Like how, yeah, you're not supposed.
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You don't promote it, right. And I in recovery, I was, you
13:23
know, hoping to direct it to a certain person in my life.
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And then, you know, about a month ago, out of nowhere,
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someone else called me asking for help.
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And it was like from left field. I had no idea, you know, but
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it's it's a pretty beautiful thing.
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Like you don't know whose lives you are touching.
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You have no idea. I'm getting goosebumps as you
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think, 'cause yeah, that's happened to me too, where it's
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like, and it's usually when you need it the most to, right.
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You know, God works in mysterious ways, higher power,
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whatever you want to call it. When I'm, you know, just
13:55
recently, like in my head, same like you, these new people
13:59
started showing up in my life out of nowhere.
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And it's like, OK, God's not going to do everything for me,
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but he can put people in my path or it's like, it's up to you
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now, buddy. Like what are you going to do,
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buddy? Are you going to ignore all
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these, these winks, these God nudges or are you going to do
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something about it? Because I need to help people or
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I'm going to die, right? What does service look like to
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you today just on a daily basis? Just doing the next right thing,
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right? Like especially at work, like I
14:27
can get hot headed very quickly. But they're my own expectations,
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right? And I and I realized that this
14:34
week, like I strive for perfection and what's
14:37
perfection, I'll never be perfect.
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And this week I was talking to my sponsor as well and she was
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telling me, you know, an expectation is the beginning of
14:48
a resentment. And when she said that, it was
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just like a bunch of stuff came flashing through my head and I
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was like, wow, like not only am I setting an expectation for
14:56
myself at work, I'm setting them for other people around me,
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which is creating a resentment. Like who the heck am I to say
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you, you're, you're capable of this, this and that?
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Maybe they're not right. So this week especially, I've
15:11
been trying to be a little more understanding at work and just
15:16
like service there. And I remember, you know, I got
15:21
a lot of recovery in Newmarket and I remember coming back to
15:24
Toronto and a lot of women were approaching me at meetings and
15:29
stuff, right? And I went, I had relapse and I
15:33
went with a friend to 1. And he's like, you're gonna meet
15:35
so many women. I'm like, no, I'm not.
15:38
Every woman in that meeting approached me, talked to me for
15:42
5 minutes and gave me their number.
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Every single one. From that day forward, I
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promised myself any newcomer, I would talk to them and make them
15:49
feel welcome. Even just simply like, hey,
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yeah, you know, yeah. I can't tell you how many times
15:55
I've been to play meetings where that's happened and it hasn't
15:59
happened, especially when I've travelled.
16:00
When I travel, I try to, I used to do a lot more in, in my first
16:04
bout of recovery. I've been to meetings in
16:06
Barcelona, I've been to meetings in the States all over.
16:11
And I find that when I travel, people tend to come up to me.
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But it's like you just feel so good, like no matter where
16:18
you're at in your recovery, when someone comes up to you.
16:19
And to your point, I, I remember, you know, 2015 going
16:24
to my first meeting in Toronto after 'cause I got sober in
16:26
Minnesota in, in rehab and the meetings that are way different
16:29
than here. They're not bad or good.
16:31
They're just different. They, they have a lot of God
16:33
talk, which is I've come to realize today is I like it and
16:37
it's not for everybody, right? Some people get turned off by
16:39
that word, which is fine. But you know, it's my own
16:42
conception, you know, very simple.
16:44
But, you know, coming here and I'll, I'll never forget Dan,
16:48
right? Dan F came up to me and so old,
16:51
old guy and just shook my hand in, in one of the meetings in
16:53
Toronto and said, hey, son, like welcome, have a coffee, sit
16:56
down, right? And I was like, oh God, like no
16:58
one was ever doing that to me before, right?
17:01
Maybe at the bar, but it's not the same.
17:03
Right. I wanted that too, right.
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I think for my service, too, I think honesty is important when
17:09
you're talking, like, because the more honest you are and the
17:12
more you talk about your story, somebody could relate.
17:15
And I had that happen as well, right?
17:17
Like, they came up to me and they couldn't stop crying.
17:19
They were crying for about half an hour, but just thanking me,
17:22
'cause they could, they were able to relate so much.
17:25
And they're sober today now, too, right?
17:27
Like, just. Yeah.
17:30
I think honesty is a big part of service, too.
17:32
Especially, yeah, 'cause you're just, you want people to hear,
17:37
hear that you've been through the same struggle as them,
17:42
right? And they're not alone.
17:43
Yeah, you know. That's the biggest thing too,
17:46
cause yeah, when I came in, I still, you know, I talked to a
17:49
lot of new people today and I'm grateful for that because of the
17:52
job that I have and I love it, man.
17:53
I, I never thought I would like it this much.
17:55
Honestly. I love it because it's, they
17:57
don't call in like complaining about their life, right?
18:00
You know, it comes here and there and they're different and
18:02
my problems are worse than everyone else's, right?
18:04
That that's totally normal, that I was like that too.
18:07
And then you come into recovery and you hear somebody else like,
18:09
well, actually I've been through this, this and this.
18:11
You're like, what? Like it's actually worse than
18:13
what I've been through, right. And I always say to people, it's
18:15
like, whatever you've been through, someone has been
18:18
through worse or, and gotten through it.
18:20
Yeah. The longer you stay around, you
18:21
start to notice that. Those feelings are still the
18:23
same though, right? Like I think they are anyway.
18:27
Like I hear people talking and, but I tell them, I'm like, I'm
18:30
happy you didn't get to, to the point of homelessness.
18:33
I'm happy you're seeing yourself now and getting the help today.
18:37
For me, the homelessness is what I needed to reach right.
18:41
So, but I, I'm, I never thought I'd say I'd be grateful for it,
18:46
but I am right 'cause today I'm someone different and I view the
18:51
I'm so grateful for little things now that I never would
18:54
have been grateful for before. Just waking up, a roof over my
18:58
head, a job that I'm holding down for the first time in a
19:02
long time, right so. Where people are happy to see me
19:06
at work and they come support me too.
19:08
Like what a, what a gift, you know, what a, that's kind of
19:11
foreign to us. No one was supporting me before
19:14
besides my family, right? That's it.
19:16
My family. I'm that's the biggest part.
19:18
I'm happy to have that. You, you mentioned trying to
19:23
sort of, I, I don't want to use the word force, but try to get
19:25
somebody sober in your life. Yeah, Why don't you?
19:28
Can you talk a little bit about what that's like, like trying to
19:30
get someone sober and then this sort of moment, 'cause I think a
19:34
lot of people watching can relate to that.
19:36
It's like just stop using. It backfired on me.
19:39
Like I realized why we shouldn't, why I shouldn't do
19:44
it. So I was asked to do a reading
19:47
at a medallion, and it was right downtown Toronto.
19:52
And I was like, trying. I was like, you're gonna come
19:56
support me, right? And that was my manipulative.
19:58
Oh, right in. There, right.
20:03
I could tell he was uncomfortable through the whole
20:05
ride. He's not a quiet person and he
20:06
was very quiet. And you know what?
20:11
I got him out front the doors, but that was it.
20:14
He ended up going to the bar right from there.
20:17
And you know, it scared me just cause what's you don't know
20:21
what's in in the drugs these days.
20:24
And if something would have happened to that, to him that
20:26
night, I would have felt responsible for that, right?
20:29
So that was a heavy lesson learned right there.
20:34
From that point on, I was like, I'll never push it on anybody.
20:38
They have to want it, right? So even when I first got sober,
20:43
I wasn't doing it for me. I was doing it for everyone
20:46
else, for my family. And it it wasn't working.
20:49
It didn't work, obviously. But now I'm doing it for
20:52
Heather, and so far so good. All we got is today, right?
21:00
As long as I'm sober today, I always tell people it's like, I
21:02
remember coming into recovery and one of my biggest things, I
21:05
was 23, right? The first time I came in.
21:07
And my biggest, I couldn't wrap my head around like getting
21:12
married and not having a drink on my wedding day, right?
21:15
That was like my my biggest thing.
21:17
And I've come to learn that a lot of people have that thought,
21:20
right? That specific thought.
21:21
And if I hadn't talked about it, I wouldn't have gotten that out
21:24
of them, right? I can honestly say sitting here
21:26
today that I got married and didn't have a drink, right?
21:29
Yeah, it was, it was amazing. But during that time, I had been
21:33
in, in the middle of a relapse, right?
21:35
So it's like, you know, the honeymoon after and it was a
21:38
huge thing disaster. That's why I always, always,
21:41
always, always applaud people that are dealing with a loved
21:43
one in their life because I know how hard it is.
21:46
My wife reminds me a lot. But it's good.
21:48
I need those reminders because like I was thinking and you hear
21:52
this all the time, it's like, I'm only hurting me, right?
21:55
I'm only hurting me. Nobody else is hurting.
21:58
I'm like, just leave me alone. Meanwhile, my wife, I find out
22:01
later, and I've said this before on the broadcast is, is calling
22:04
the morgue, calling police stations, calling.
22:06
And I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have known that until and if I
22:10
didn't get sober again, right 'cause she, she told me all that
22:13
stuff, right? So.
22:14
It's true. I didn't think I was hurting
22:15
anybody else, right? Like I remember my brother
22:20
walking past me on the street. He didn't, he wouldn't
22:24
acknowledge me. He wouldn't look my way.
22:26
And I would laugh and be like, why is he so upset?
22:30
I'm not hurting him. I'm only hurting myself.
22:33
And even I got to the point of trying to kill myself.
22:35
I turned to fentanyl, right? And I overdosed 10 to 15 times.
22:40
I remember someone called my family.
22:42
I was so mad at him and I was so mad at the hospital.
22:46
I was like pulled out everything.
22:48
I'm like, I'm gonna sue you guys who called my parents.
22:52
Meanwhile, they're my the people you're supposed to call on my
22:55
chart, right by your lady contact.
22:57
Yeah, that didn't go so well. But I remember my parents
23:03
telling me how upset they were that the hospital let me go.
23:05
And they're like, she's too irate.
23:07
What can we do? Yeah, sorry.
23:10
OK. I freaked out for a second.
23:12
I thought it wasn't recording, but it's all good.
23:16
Yeah, she's so, so sorry. Continue.
23:18
Yeah. Oh, is it just, I remember going
23:21
home that day too. Like I used my parents of
23:25
stealing $15 from me. Like what do they want $15 from
23:30
me for? Like, why would they steal from
23:32
me? That's what I did to them,
23:34
right? And then that was a rough week.
23:37
I went out and I, I don't even remember that whole week.
23:40
I don't remember a. Thing.
23:42
But I mean, the paranoia is so real when you're in active
23:45
addiction. I was talking about this
23:47
yesterday, but I and I'm happy I haven't deleted these videos.
23:49
I have a few videos from my shenanigans and trades.
23:53
And I used to get a lot of people being like, how do you
23:55
laugh at that? That's crazy.
23:57
Like you did this and that. And I'm like, my therapist put
24:00
it perfectly. She's in recovery as well.
24:02
She's like, well, Anthony, you know, we have two choices today.
24:05
We can laugh about those things or we can cry about them.
24:07
And she's like, I don't know about you.
24:09
I've done enough crying, right? Like I, I'm ready to laugh at
24:11
them now because they happened. It's part of who I am, who I
24:14
was, and I'm not ashamed of it anymore, right?
24:18
But I have like so many videos of myself, like locked in a
24:22
hotel bathroom when I was kicked out of it, my wife kicked me out
24:25
and I was hotel surfing kind of homeless.
24:27
Not really. But I mean, I didn't have a
24:30
home, right? Which I so I can relate to the
24:32
even though I was in a place, it's like I hated myself so
24:35
much, right? I want to die every night.
24:37
And I remember I had these videos of just like film, like
24:41
waiting for someone to come in the hotel door.
24:42
I'm holding a weapon in my hand and I'm just like, like I could
24:46
still feel that feeling of fear. And it's like even in your head,
24:51
my thing was stimulant. So it was like I always had
24:53
these, these paranoia, this psychosis.
24:56
I was in the feeling of like, I know in my core that nobody is
25:01
outside. I know I'm looking through the
25:04
people and I see people, but I'm like, I know I hear them.
25:08
I'm taking video, I'm sending them to my friends.
25:10
I'm like, do you see anybody? They're like, no, dude, like
25:11
you're going there. But it's just like, oh, I don't
25:14
miss that feeling. Oh, everyone was a cop for me,
25:17
and my dad was going to jump out of every Bush.
25:20
I don't know why. It was my dad all the time, but
25:22
it was my dad. I'm like, my dad's there.
25:24
I know he's there. I'd be in an apartment building
25:27
20 floors up. My dad's going to come through
25:29
that balcony. Like I know he's not there, but
25:34
in my mind he was. Yeah, something about it's just
25:36
such an awful place to to live. But I mean, that's not enough,
25:40
right? To your point, you, you have to
25:42
get to a point of the gift of desperation, they call it, where
25:45
it's like, I've had enough. You don't have to hit a rock
25:47
bottom. You hear that?
25:48
You have to hit your own sort of rock bottom.
25:50
But in my experience, rock bottom is when you stop digging,
25:53
right? But yeah, as long as I'm alive,
25:54
there's always abortion rock bottom, you know?
25:57
Well, I've hit bottoms in sobriety too, right?
25:59
I didn't realize that I'm powerless over people, places
26:03
and things. It's not just drugs and alcohol,
26:07
you know what I mean? I remember when I came back, I
26:09
became really good friends with someone and we became too close
26:12
too quickly. And I still run into them.
26:16
They're still sort of a part of my life.
26:18
But when I lost them because I became too codependent on them,
26:22
I was a mess. That was a different, that was
26:25
my bottom in sobriety, right? And I did want to use and I was
26:29
just kept telling myself, you'll get through this.
26:31
You'll get through this. That's when I realized I was
26:35
powerless over people too. And I mean we there was no
26:41
relationship, a friendship. But that showed me I'm also not
26:45
ready for a relationship either. Not even close 'cause I'm too I
26:49
became way too Co dependent on that person.
26:52
Yeah, yeah, I can relate to that.
26:53
We put them on this sort of pedestal, right?
26:55
And it's like, I need you to love me, to feel good about
26:57
myself, right? Co dependence essentially, yeah,
27:00
I can relate to that too. That was early in recovery for.
27:03
You That was in the first six months when I came back.
27:06
There's a reason they tell us not to, to get in relationships
27:09
in the first. I used to hate that in the first
27:11
year, I was like, what? Why?
27:12
Yeah. I was at a point where I was
27:14
just like, you know what? Everything people told me, I was
27:16
just like, I'm doing good. Like I feel good.
27:18
I'm. I'll listen to whatever you say.
27:19
You're happy. I want what you have.
27:21
Yeah. I got to do what you did, right?
27:23
That's just what they told me. You know that's.
27:25
True. It's a hard concept.
27:28
You don't want to do what people tell you.
27:30
And that's why I love recovery so much, just because no one,
27:33
you know, you'll get your sponsor, kind of my sponsor
27:35
always. I used to have a sponsor that
27:36
would say, you know, son, these are all suggestions, sort of
27:40
like suggestions of, you know, I suggest you take a parachute
27:43
when you jump out of an airplane.
27:45
I love that. It's so true.
27:46
It's like you can take it or leave it, but you know, you're
27:48
going to fall pretty fast, right?
27:50
And he's saying it because he's done it.
27:51
He's done it before, and he's a. Sponsor will tell me things and
27:54
then I won't listen. Like I'm listening to her speak,
28:00
but I'm not hearing it. I'm not, it's not registering.
28:03
I don't want to hear what she's telling me.
28:05
And then a couple months later she's like, Heather, what did we
28:08
talk about a few months ago? I'm like, yeah, you were right.
28:12
I'm not saying I told you so, but I told you so.
28:14
Yeah, even though she'll be like, so did you pray about it?
28:16
I'm like, did you pray about it? She's like, I'll pray about it.
28:21
Call me back. She was always right the whole
28:26
time. That's awesome.
28:29
I do that too. I want to ask you a question
28:32
because I've never heard this question before, but I was on a
28:37
like a sober community meeting last week.
28:39
It wasn't 12 step based. It was just like new people in
28:42
recovery all coming together. And I was, I was speaking at it.
28:44
I was fortunate enough to, to be a speaker at it.
28:46
And I was talking about relapse and it caught to the end.
28:49
There's 4 speakers and then they opened it up for AQ and A and
28:52
this guy gets on here and he, he asks this question where it kind
28:55
of pissed me off at first because I was obviously the
28:58
answer to this. And then I thought about it.
28:59
I was like, wow, that was a really good question.
29:00
So I'll ask you now. It's like if you could, he asked
29:05
us if you could go back, all four of you, if you could go
29:07
back, 12 years old, ten years old, whatever, before anything
29:11
happened in your life, would you choose the path of being an
29:15
addict and going through what you got through and going into
29:17
recovery, or would you choose this kind of normal life?
29:20
I mean, this is the the only life I really know.
29:24
I think being sober today, I don't think I'd have the
29:29
gratitude that I do today without going through what I
29:33
went through, losing everything I did and it was all by my own
29:38
choice. There's that's what helped me
29:44
understand was keeping things simple.
29:46
And I remember the first time it was in my head, I was writing in
29:50
my journal. I think in that day I came up
29:53
with almost 30 things I was grateful for in that day.
29:58
I don't know if I was just normal, if I could see all that
30:04
gratitude. Do you know what I mean?
30:07
Like, so I don't know, it like to think back some of the things
30:14
I did. Sure it still, it still bothers
30:16
me from time to time, but I get to be a better Heather today and
30:20
do better today. I don't know.
30:25
So I guess maybe, yeah, I'd probably stick to the life I had
30:28
'cause there's so much and today that I'm like, I'm grateful to
30:33
be sitting here with you today and doing this right 'cause like
30:36
we were talking about we could help somebody.
30:38
We don't know who we're helping. It'll be some stranger in
30:42
another country somewhere, right?
30:44
But if I've helped one person in this world, I've I'm happy with
30:48
that. Yeah, yeah, Well said.
30:50
No, it's it's a good and I remember when he asked it, I was
30:54
like, everyone's gonna, you know, say that, of course.
30:57
But then I really thought about it and I was like, you know
30:58
what? I've had days for sure where I'm
31:02
like, I hate being an addict. I wish I wasn't.
31:05
This sucks, right? But it's in the grand scheme of
31:08
things, it's like, yeah, I have a tool kit today that I never
31:11
would have had before, right? I see some people and you know,
31:15
I hope this doesn't come off as judgement or whatever, but I see
31:19
some people going through life and they're nine to five and
31:21
they're just kind of just scraping by and just do.
31:24
And it's like, I feel like everybody can benefit from
31:28
recovery. And I've heard that before.
31:29
Everyone can benefit from some sort of program, 12 steps,
31:32
whatever, SMART Recovery, whatever the hell you, you do to
31:34
get sober. If you, you know, if you do 10
31:37
push ups in the mud every day and that keeps you sober, as one
31:39
of my friends used to say, it's like, good for you, right?
31:41
Like I'm just a better person when I'm sober.
31:43
I I it's like I'm allergic to alcohol and drugs.
31:46
Simple as that, you know? I've always said that too
31:51
though, like what we have and the tools we're given.
31:55
I think it could do a lot of the world.
31:58
So I'm good too, right? Addiction's not going anywhere.
32:02
Just my opinion. Yeah, yeah, addiction's not
32:04
going anywhere, right? Like, it's not getting less.
32:06
There's it's increasing every day.
32:09
And the stories are getting crazier and crazier, right?
32:11
As I stay around longer, I'm like, holy shit, how did that
32:13
person come back from that? You know, homeless stripper to
32:18
lawyer? Like I've just I've heard the
32:19
craziest transformations, right? And it's like you look at these
32:24
people now and you're like, you used to be that used to be
32:26
homeless, whatever, right? It's like you just can't fathom
32:28
it. But there's there's a
32:29
transformation that happens in here and it's beautiful to.
32:32
It is pretty beautiful. It is.
32:36
So we talked. We talked about faith and
32:38
spirituality and you talked about what you were you were
32:41
working on a lot today. What would you say is like the
32:44
number one thing that that helps you when you're really
32:47
squirrely? I know you you mentioned calling
32:50
people and journaling is a is a good one.
32:54
But yeah, what does that look like today when, you know, when
32:57
you're struggling? I just talk to people a lot like
33:01
that's it's, yeah, I have to talk.
33:04
I have to get it out. I will, I will call 20 people if
33:08
I have to. You know, sports growing up for
33:10
me was huge. But when I was in treatment, I
33:14
tore my ACL and my meniscus. So now it's trying to find other
33:19
things to keep me busy. Right now I just pile myself
33:22
into work, which isn't healthy either.
33:26
It can take a toll on my brain and and my body trying to find
33:33
other things I'm interested in. I have no idea what I'm
33:35
interested in, none whatsoever, right?
33:40
I do need to make more of an effort, but I just wish I could
33:44
play my sports, to be honest with you.
33:46
But. It's a tough one.
33:47
Yeah, I mean, I'm going to be in a tournament at the end of the
33:49
month for baseball, which I'm stoked for.
33:51
Is that a sobriety recovery tournament?
33:53
Yeah, they have lots of those. Yeah, yeah, my, yeah, I've, I've
33:58
been asked to do a few of them. I did one last year too, but
34:00
it's something it's fun about a bunch of addicts playing
34:03
together and so many opinions. Yeah, but even concerts,
34:08
Concerts. I love concerts.
34:09
I love music. And yeah, going to a Leaf game
34:15
or a Jays game, I love doing that stuff, right.
34:18
I never thought I'd be able to do it sober either.
34:20
Yeah, I never thought I could. It's even better so.
34:23
It is, yeah, you actually. Remember what's going on.
34:26
Yeah, you remember it. It's funny, you mentioned
34:29
concerts. I'm going to 1:00 tonight and I
34:33
was at 1-2 weeks ago, Budweiser Stage, which is a great venue if
34:36
you have seats. If you're in the lawn, it's a
34:38
little tricky, but you got to deal with a bunch of people
34:41
having I liked. It back then, yeah, yeah.
34:43
Exactly. Now you're just like, I just
34:45
want my space, right? I'm like, I'm listening to this
34:47
right. But I was with somebody that was
34:49
drinking and yeah, it's just like, and this doesn't happen
34:53
all the time. I realized that.
34:54
But it just like I was watching them kind of struggle a little
34:56
bit and it kind of ruined their night, right?
34:57
Because they were constantly going to the bathroom this and
34:59
that. My wife now, she like completely
35:01
doesn't drink anymore. And she's not one of us, right?
35:04
But she just, she decided for one, she she'll go to a concert
35:07
and she'll start drinking. She'll go to the bathroom to to,
35:09
Yeah, like just to pee every so often.
35:11
And as a woman, those bathrooms are lined up.
35:14
She. Hates it.
35:14
She's like, I missed the whole show, right?
35:15
I'm not even getting drunk. She's like what's the point of
35:17
this, right? And so she she completely like
35:19
doesn't drink anymore and which blows my mind.
35:23
I mean, you can and you don't. Yeah, I'm gonna stop there.
35:26
It's still drives for her. Yeah.
35:28
It drives me nuts still when she leaves like this much.
35:30
I'm just like, what are you doing, man?
35:34
I made a video about that. I was like, Oh my God, I don't
35:36
get it. But you know, 2 each his own.
35:38
And again, I always say this, but if if you're doing a problem
35:41
with drugs and alcohol and you're still having fun, like
35:44
more power to you. Not everyone's like that.
35:47
But when you go to those social situations, did you find it hard
35:52
in the beginning to say no? Like what did you say to people?
35:55
Why aren't you drinking? Like everyone has those, those
35:58
moments. Right.
35:58
I've kind of avoided a lot of those situations.
36:02
I haven't really put myself out there yet.
36:04
I was invited to a friend's. She just moved into a new place
36:10
and she was just having like a welcoming party or whatever you
36:14
want to call it. And I thought about it and I
36:19
decided not to go because people from my past were going to be
36:25
there and I didn't want to be triggered in family events.
36:28
I'm I'm, I'm OK there. They all know what I'm doing, so
36:35
none of them pressure me. Sometimes, though, I do have to
36:39
escape for a bit. And it's not even that I wanna
36:42
drink. It's just a lot going on that
36:45
it's a bit chaotic and I'm not used to that anymore.
36:49
And sometimes I'm like, that was me like, but and not to put them
36:54
there like they're, they're able and capable of having of, of
36:58
drinking and having fun. And I'm just not.
37:01
But sometimes I just, and it's not even that I want to drink.
37:04
It's just I just need to breathe there for a minute.
37:07
I need to take a step back and just take a breather.
37:10
But I haven't really put myself in that situation yet,
37:14
especially with my past friends from my past.
37:17
I still talk to a lot of them, but they hang out with a lot of
37:21
people that I used to use with and it's just I'm not ready for
37:27
any of that yet. And that's OK, right?
37:29
It's like, that's amazing that you can come.
37:32
I I always, it's like, it doesn't mean you're not 'cause
37:35
when people say, well, how am I gonna like, it doesn't mean
37:37
you're not ready forever, right? It's like just right now I need
37:40
to take a me moment and whatever.
37:41
And I found that very helpful too.
37:43
I still find it helpful when I'm like, yeah, I just, it's, I
37:47
thought even that I'm gonna be triggered to drink.
37:48
Maybe I will, maybe I don't know.
37:49
That's the thing about triggers is like, we don't really, they
37:52
kind of come out of nowhere sometimes.
37:53
And my first, so I had eight, almost eight years, went back
37:58
out for probably about a year and then four months of like,
38:04
just way worse, right? Way worse.
38:06
And progressiveness, progressive illness, right?
38:09
Progressive drug use, alcohol use, you know, places, people,
38:13
places, things. You know, I found new, new
38:15
bottoms, right? Like you said.
38:17
And yeah, it's like, I don't even I forgot now I lost my
38:25
train of thought, but that's OK. That happens sometimes.
38:30
But yeah, it's like I I oh, now I remember what I was going to
38:34
say. OK, so three months in, this
38:36
time I was in a sober house again.
38:38
Didn't want to be there. I had eight years.
38:41
Don't you know, like I know how to do this Anthony, shut the
38:44
hell up right. I had to do that again where
38:45
it's like I had to dismantle my ego.
38:47
I had to deflate my ego, whatever you want to call it.
38:50
Maybe I'm not maybe I don't have all the answers again, fine, I
38:54
had all this recovery, but you know, let's just let's just
38:57
listen again because that's what helped you the first time.
39:00
It's like maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I don't have the all the
39:02
answers. Maybe I don't know what's good
39:03
for me right now doesn't mean I'm going to know for the rest
39:05
of my life I'm going to be like that.
39:07
But lived in a sober house the first three months, I thought
39:10
about cocaine every single day, like every single day.
39:13
And I talked about it. I told people about it.
39:15
And like, there wasn't. And it wasn't like this is a
39:18
crazy intense thing. But I would, I would feed into
39:20
it. And then I would, I would play
39:22
the tape through in the wrong way where it was like, oh, yeah,
39:24
you could do that. And then my fantasy was like,
39:26
you know, you could turn off your phone, you could kick off
39:28
your shoes. You could do this today.
39:31
I I can honestly say that I haven't thought about it in a
39:33
while. And when I do it like I'm almost
39:35
at seven months again and thank you yeah, it's amazing.
39:39
I can't believe it because like I was saying before, 7 minutes
39:43
was a foreign concept to me, right.
39:45
So it's, it's a beautiful thing that I'm, I'm able to start over
39:48
again. But when that thought comes up
39:52
in my mind now, I literally, I had a therapist in my, in my
39:55
last treatment center, she would say I do this thing where I just
39:58
like picture a stop sign in my head.
40:00
And so I do that now it's like when, when those starts, those
40:03
thoughts start to come. Just don't even go there, man.
40:05
It's, and it's not like I'm burying it down deep.
40:07
It's like there's nothing good that comes out of me fantasizing
40:11
about this. Yeah, you know, because it'll
40:13
eventually lead to me relapsing, right?
40:15
Well, even when I'm tired, it's that like I was so exhausted the
40:20
other day and I was laying in bed and I couldn't get that
40:22
first as I used crack, right? I couldn't get that first toke
40:27
out of my head, that first euphoric toke.
40:30
And I'm just like, oh, I want it, I want it.
40:33
But that's what I just play the tape forward what's and it's
40:36
'cause I'm tired. Like if when I take a nap, I
40:38
wake up, those thoughts are gone.
40:41
It's only when I'm tired. I don't know why and it's like
40:44
over exhaustion. But yeah, I do still have those
40:49
moments. And then there's sometimes where
40:54
I just wanna get out of my head and I think I wanna use, but I
40:59
actually don't. I'm just, I just want out of my
41:02
head. Like I, I can't explain it.
41:05
Like it's like, I like my, my disease is telling me you wanna
41:10
use. But then when I think about it,
41:13
I'm like, no, I don't. I just don't want these thoughts
41:15
in my freaking head anymore. Just want the noise to kind of
41:19
just turn down the volume a little bit.
41:21
So what do you do? I mean you you mentioned it, but
41:23
like calling somebody is a big one.
41:26
Calling music, I mean, they say music isn't the best either
41:31
'cause but I love music actually, asides from my family.
41:36
I was talking about this the other day when I was heading on
41:39
the streets. I'd have to say music was the
41:41
the second top thing I missed. Like asides from my family,
41:45
right? Like music's always been big in
41:47
my life since I was a little kid.
41:48
I remember 5 years old, my dad bought me a little ghetto
41:50
blaster, right? I've loved music, soul music,
41:56
but mostly writing and calling people right?
42:00
Or taking a nap if I. Need.
42:03
Yeah. And sometimes it's that simple,
42:04
you know? Yeah.
42:06
I wanna ask you this. I just thought of this now, but
42:10
homelessness is, is big in Toronto, right?
42:14
I do this thing where if I see a homeless person coming out to
42:17
me, I just at least at very least try to make eye contact
42:19
with them because they're fucking people, right?
42:22
They're people. And sometimes they'll ask me for
42:26
stuff and sometimes like, if I can afford it, I'll, I'll do it,
42:28
right? And I try to, you know, what
42:30
was, what was society's like reaction to you when you were
42:34
homeless versus like, did you notice the shift right away?
42:36
Like how do people react to you? I didn't notice it right away
42:42
but eventually I did. Like at a a local pub I used to
42:45
hang out at people would start ignoring me and and not
42:49
acknowledging me and and being very rude to me and stuff.
42:55
I mean my family wasn't a homelessness was a choice to me
42:59
because my parents would never give me the boot.
43:03
I know now how much they love me, but I couldn't go home
43:08
'cause of guilt and I couldn't look at my parents in the eye
43:11
for the way I was right. But yeah, I noticed.
43:18
Not everybody though, 'cause there were days where I would
43:21
decide ten days a day, I'm done. Like, and I would I my choice
43:26
was I didn't have the balls, if you will, to to hang myself or
43:31
or hurt myself physically. But I was like when I found out
43:34
about fentanyl, I'm like, I can get high and die at the same
43:37
time. Let's do this, right?
43:39
But there were days that I was like, OK, today, but some random
43:44
in the streets or on the bus would talk to me and to ask me
43:48
how my day was. And just that little, little
43:52
thing, it stopped me. It would stop me from from doing
43:56
that that day and making that choice, right?
43:59
So it was more so the people that I knew growing up that that
44:05
were different towards me. I mean, the the people that
44:11
didn't know me is weird. They were a lot more forgiving
44:15
if you will, or or saw me differently.
44:17
Yeah, yeah. So I'm gonna say interesting
44:21
because I've always wondered that, you know, it's like not
44:25
everyone's an asshole, right? There's a lot of good people out
44:27
there, you know, although we, we see behaviour or social media or
44:31
whatever and it's like immediately you write off
44:33
humanity and everyone's selfish. And I was certainly selfish for
44:37
a long time, but there was moments where I was a good
44:39
person too, right? And I, I'm a good person today
44:42
and I was a good person back then too.
44:43
I was just making some choices that didn't align with my values
44:47
and my morals, you know, drinking and driving one of
44:49
them. Yeah, I don't drive.
44:51
I've never driven. So that's one thing I got, I got
44:54
skipped out on, thank God, right 'cause yeah, who knows what
44:58
would have happened. But I found early in recovery I
45:01
was very judgmental and homeless people, believe it or not, and I
45:05
didn't, I was disgusted by them and and I was like, how could
45:09
they be like that? Mind you, 6 months prior, that
45:12
was me, right? And then I remember I had a sub,
45:17
I was going back up to Newmarket from visiting my parents and I
45:20
had a sub in my bag and I saw this gentleman sleeping and I
45:25
woke him up and I gave him a sub.
45:26
And then I went and bought him a water and gave it to him.
45:28
And he's like, God bless you. I love you.
45:30
Thank you so much. And I remember walking away and
45:33
I just started bawling, bawling my eyes out.
45:36
And it was just, I don't know, I guess it was a lot.
45:40
I think they were gratitude tears that, that, that I wasn't
45:43
there anymore. And I know now I was so
45:47
resentful towards them because I was looking at my past self and
45:52
I and I, I don't know, maybe at that time I was ashamed of that
45:57
person of who I was back then. Right now.
46:01
Now I have a different look like I, I try not to give them money
46:05
if I can, because if they are users, not not all homeless
46:09
people are users, right? If they are and and and they
46:13
went and used and died that night, I would feel so
46:15
responsible for that, right? That would kill me.
46:18
What? I know probably not.
46:19
But if I do see them, I'll try to give them food if I can,
46:24
something to eat right or whatever I have on me if I can
46:28
right. But to your point, like a simple
46:31
conversation goes such a long way.
46:33
A smile. Oh yeah.
46:34
Eye contact, even. Yeah, 'cause like, yeah, a lot
46:37
of people don't notice them and I see it today, right?
46:40
They try to ignore them or or whatever, and they're people.
46:44
I'll be with people who know knew I was homeless and they're
46:47
and they're very, I don't want to say rude, but they disregard
46:52
them right away. And I and I, I don't, if they
46:55
need a cigarette, I'll give them a couple or you know, if I can,
46:59
if I can, right? But I acknowledge them.
47:03
And because usually if I don't have something to give, they're
47:07
very beautiful. They're beautiful, they're
47:09
people, they have hearts, right? And regardless, they're still
47:13
grateful that that I even acknowledge them, I feel.
47:18
OK, Heather, I was like to add in the podcast with this.
47:22
And so I'll do it again because I think, I don't know, I've,
47:30
I've come to realize that words are just words, right?
47:34
But the last guest, Caitlin, I had in here, she's like, if you
47:38
need to hear words right now, then that's going to help you,
47:40
right? But at the end of the day, it
47:42
might not do anything. But I think sometimes some I
47:45
needed to hear words sometimes, right?
47:47
Just just to even just shift my perspective a little bit because
47:50
that's what recovery does today. But if you could say something
47:54
to someone struggling right now, what would you say?
47:57
They're not alone that there's people out here that know
48:02
exactly how they're feeling and what they're going through.
48:04
And there is help. There's help, Anthony, you're
48:09
here helping people, right? There's ways to reach out and
48:12
get help. It's scary, but if I can do it,
48:16
anyone can do it, right? If you can do it, anyone can do
48:19
it so. Our good friend Dave always used
48:23
to say it. Really.
48:25
He always used to say that. To me, like he.
48:27
Would always be like, if I could do it, you could do it.
48:29
Yeah, he did. And I was like, oh, man, I love
48:33
that guy. But Well said, Heather, thanks
48:35
so much for coming down. I appreciate you.
48:37
Yeah. And yeah, I had a lot of fun
48:40
today. Thank you.
48:41
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The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for
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48:52
This content is not a substitute for professional medical advice,
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