Latest / Honey Badger Radio / Catching up with Men's Advocate Arvis Owens of wouldyou.care | Fireside Chat 264

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Catching up with Men's Advocate Arvis Owens of wouldyou.care | Fireside Chat 264 · Honey Badger Radio

0:00
Speaker 1: Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, wherever you may be.
0:03
Speaker 1: My name is Brian, and welcome to the fireside Chat.
0:06
Speaker 1: I am here with Rvis Owens, a repeat guest. Hello Harvis,
0:11
Speaker 1: how are you doing good? Hello Brian, thanks for having me.
0:14
Speaker 1: Hello to the audience, money Badger, Nate, thanks for coming on.
0:19
Speaker 1: So just a little bit about, uh, you know, why
0:23
Speaker 1: you're while you're on and what it is you do
0:25
Speaker 1: in case because we always have new people watch and
0:29
Speaker 1: our content covers a breadth of men's issues, but this
0:33
Speaker 1: was a specific thing that I think was we've been
0:36
Speaker 1: talking about a lot recently, which is basically false allegations
0:42
Speaker 1: in the military, right, Harry space, Is that a fair
0:45
Speaker 1: way to describe it.
0:47
Speaker 2: That is a very fair way to describe it. Thank
0:49
Speaker 2: you for that, r.
0:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just give everybody, you know, because we have
0:55
Speaker 1: some new people here, give everybody like a little bit
0:57
Speaker 1: of a let's say, you know, elevator pitch, like what
1:00
Speaker 1: it is that you do when you started and you know,
1:04
Speaker 1: based on how you found us, that kind of thing.
1:06
Speaker 2: Perfect. So my name is Arbus Owens. I'm originally from Beaumont, Texas.
1:11
Speaker 2: A nineteen ninety five naval Academy graduate. I was a
1:13
Speaker 2: naval officer, and in twenty thirteen I was tried be
1:17
Speaker 2: a false accusation of sexual assault in the military. After
1:22
Speaker 2: that conviction, testified for my own defense, had numerous amounts
1:26
Speaker 2: of evidence to show that I was innocent, I couldn't
1:29
Speaker 2: get help from anyone. And the irony is the people
1:33
Speaker 2: I was seeking help force start sending people to me.
1:35
Speaker 2: So there were so many men in the military who
1:37
Speaker 2: had experienced the same thing, and so I became the
1:40
Speaker 2: advocate for them that I wanted to find for myself.
1:44
Speaker 2: And so that's how this happened. And the reason why
1:49
Speaker 2: your audience should care is because while we say false accusations,
1:54
Speaker 2: it's if you've ever had someone lie on you in
1:58
Speaker 2: your whole life and someone believed that lie even though
2:02
Speaker 2: you had evidence to show that it was a lie,
2:06
Speaker 2: that is the enemy here. And so the military was
2:09
Speaker 2: pressure during the Me Too movement, and the idea was,
2:13
Speaker 2: we want more prosecutions and we more convictions. So we've
2:17
Speaker 2: got DNA proof showing the guy didn't do it, we
2:20
Speaker 2: still want a conviction. We've got a video showing that
2:25
Speaker 2: the accuser admitted she lied and she was under pressure
2:28
Speaker 2: that's why she did it. Still, they were convicted. And
2:32
Speaker 2: this not only happened the military court system, it happened
2:35
Speaker 2: in their administrative system. It also happened on university campuses
2:39
Speaker 2: throughout the United States. So this is a huge men's
2:42
Speaker 2: rights issue. The military, it was more systemic and probably
2:47
Speaker 2: more damaging because you had men who committed suicide didn't
2:50
Speaker 2: have access to their children, sent to prison, et cetera.
2:53
Speaker 2: So yes, today I advocate to bring attention and awareness
2:57
Speaker 2: so families who were considering military service can at least
3:00
Speaker 2: ask these questions.
3:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you've been doing this for how long.
3:04
Speaker 2: Now, I've been doing this for twelve years?
3:07
Speaker 1: Twelve years? Is this like your I mean it to ask,
3:11
Speaker 1: is this like your main Like? Is this like you
3:13
Speaker 1: have a job and then you do this on the side,
3:15
Speaker 1: or is this like the where you put most of
3:16
Speaker 1: your energy.
3:17
Speaker 2: I'm actually not working now. But I so this was
3:20
Speaker 2: a I don't want to call it a labor love.
3:23
Speaker 2: It's a necessary I don't want to call it a
3:26
Speaker 2: hobby either, because it's more than that. It's more of
3:28
Speaker 2: a passion. It was again, I could not find anyone.
3:32
Speaker 2: You go to any large group and people don't. They
3:36
Speaker 2: don't want to hear about men being falsely accused or
3:39
Speaker 2: wrongly convicted or mistreated, except for podcasts like yourself, Paul
3:44
Speaker 2: Elam who I did a show thank you for helping
3:47
Speaker 2: connect us together. So so that's where that came from.
3:51
Speaker 2: It's it's more of it's what I do, and it
3:52
Speaker 2: turned into a passion where it's just it's been all consuming.
3:56
Speaker 2: So it's what I do, but I do not get
3:58
Speaker 2: paid for it. I do not charge the men help.
4:00
Speaker 2: So that's where I'm at.
4:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like something you think is just really
4:04
Speaker 1: important and set aside, like the cost of these things.
4:09
Speaker 1: And I get it. I've been doing it for twelve
4:11
Speaker 1: years and it's not profitable to that. But yeah, but
4:17
Speaker 1: so you've been at this for twelve years, and would
4:20
Speaker 1: you say that like it was it was like, how
4:25
Speaker 1: was it going tough in the beginning? Do you think
4:27
Speaker 1: that it's like it stayed difficult? Has he been getting better?
4:31
Speaker 1: Like what's your outlook on like the trajectory since you
4:34
Speaker 1: started doing this?
4:35
Speaker 2: So no, You're right, it was very tough in the beginning.
4:37
Speaker 2: It was nobody wanted to hear this. You have a
4:40
Speaker 2: lot of victim they call themselves Victims Rights organization. They
4:45
Speaker 2: get government grants, they get millions of dollars from billionaires
4:48
Speaker 2: and millionaires. They also have access to mainstream media, and
4:53
Speaker 2: when you want to talk a men's rights issue or
4:55
Speaker 2: someone getting falsely accused, the mainstream media will set you aside.
5:00
Speaker 2: Algorithms on social media will choke your message, so it's
5:04
Speaker 2: not broadcast to the widest audience. So very difficult. And
5:09
Speaker 2: and so I started going to podcasters, you know, people
5:13
Speaker 2: like yourself who are interested in telling the truth. You guys,
5:16
Speaker 2: do your homework, we show you the evidence, and then
5:18
Speaker 2: you're like, okay, we want to talk about this. And
5:23
Speaker 2: so that's been the best thing is that I think
5:26
Speaker 2: the American people they're losing trust for traditional media because
5:30
Speaker 2: if they're keeping stories like this from you, it's like
5:33
Speaker 2: what else are you keeping from us? So we've had more,
5:35
Speaker 2: much more successful podcasters, and recently we've had some active
5:39
Speaker 2: duty podcasters come on board. Uh and they have been amazing.
5:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, yeah, So you've got there's like podcasters that
5:52
Speaker 1: like they normally just talk about just talk shop about
5:55
Speaker 1: military stuff maybe or they're like yeah, and then you
5:59
Speaker 1: they came out, so like what what was I'm curious
6:03
Speaker 1: about that. So when you went on these shows that
6:05
Speaker 1: don't normally talk about men's issues, but this came up
6:09
Speaker 1: as a thing like did you get pushback from them
6:12
Speaker 1: where there are people saying I don't believe you, or
6:15
Speaker 1: or maybe there were I'm sorry, you gotta get technical.
6:20
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, it was just, uh, I gotta plug in
6:23
Speaker 2: the laptop because I thought it was plugged in but
6:25
Speaker 2: it is.
6:25
Speaker 1: No, and it's like dying. This happened with another guest
6:30
Speaker 1: I had on here. So anyway, yeah, when you are
6:33
Speaker 1: you are you good now?
6:34
Speaker 2: I'm good now, thank you.
6:37
Speaker 1: No, it's it's fine. This is live show. These things happen.
6:39
Speaker 1: It's not it's not a big deal. We're doing okay
6:41
Speaker 1: considering it's live. So uh yeah, So you when you
6:45
Speaker 1: went on these these podcasts that would normally just be
6:48
Speaker 1: sort of you know, maybe they weren't about men's issues,
6:51
Speaker 1: they were about the military more broadly. Uh, when did
6:55
Speaker 1: you get any pushback or skepticism about your issue or
7:00
Speaker 1: do these guys like when you brought this up, they
7:03
Speaker 1: were like, oh, I got stories or I have I know,
7:06
Speaker 1: I have some experience with this kind of thing.
7:08
Speaker 2: A mixed bag. So I will tell you one podcast
7:11
Speaker 2: in particular. So some of them are like talk shows
7:14
Speaker 2: and they do other issues. Some of them are military centric.
7:16
Speaker 2: The military ones they knew. A lot of the military
7:19
Speaker 2: ones new. I've had some that I've had to go
7:22
Speaker 2: to for years, and then they did their homework and
7:24
Speaker 2: they were like, holy shit, you know this guy is
7:27
Speaker 2: being honest. He's very real about this. So so a
7:30
Speaker 2: mixed bag. In fact, As an example, Teresa Carpenter, she
7:34
Speaker 2: does the Stories of Service podcasts. The one I sent
7:37
Speaker 2: you the link on is when she saw it, she's
7:41
Speaker 2: been in almost thirty years, she was like, artist, I
7:43
Speaker 2: knew this was happening. I didn't know it was this big,
7:47
Speaker 2: and I didn't know what the cause was. And so
7:49
Speaker 2: yet a lot of people in the military who knew.
7:51
Speaker 2: So so you're right. We've had active duty people now
7:53
Speaker 2: they're still on active duty. They were aware of it.
7:56
Speaker 2: They just didn't know how deep it was until we
7:59
Speaker 2: spoke and we did our podcasts.
8:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's reactions. So so then, yeah, I mean
8:05
Speaker 1: it makes sense it'd be a mixed reaction. I wasn't
8:08
Speaker 1: sure because we were talking about the sort of like
8:12
Speaker 1: I guess you could call it a culture of silence
8:14
Speaker 1: or a culture of like you know, not wanting to
8:17
Speaker 1: talk about this, but just sort of like speed running
8:20
Speaker 1: through the process of just getting the conviction. Because there's
8:25
Speaker 1: like there are different reasons for it. Like you mentioned
8:27
Speaker 1: the me too movement. I think that's a big part
8:29
Speaker 1: of it, the fact that they're using merry cost studies
8:31
Speaker 1: as sort of like the foundation of why this needs
8:35
Speaker 1: to go through. But there's probably also like a desire
8:38
Speaker 1: to protect the military's reputation say okay, let's just get
8:43
Speaker 1: this through that way, we don't have to talk about it.
8:46
Speaker 1: So you would think then too, that there's a possibility
8:49
Speaker 1: that if you bring this to somebody who, like, you know,
8:51
Speaker 1: they have a military centric podcast, or even if they don't,
8:55
Speaker 1: they hear this, they're like, well, I can't, like there's
8:57
Speaker 1: like a certain mythology about this that I can't like disrupt.
9:01
Speaker 1: So you know, maybe I'm just going to like avoid
9:04
Speaker 1: that because I know that people what used to be
9:06
Speaker 1: like whoa dude, that's going to get me in trouble
9:08
Speaker 1: if I like listen to you, if I hear this
9:11
Speaker 1: out or even you know, worse yet, like advocate for
9:14
Speaker 1: an investigation into these things, so like that was why
9:18
Speaker 1: I was bringing it up.
9:19
Speaker 2: So you know what I mean, Mike Bright, I'm sorry,
9:21
Speaker 2: You're one hundred percent right, is that we do have
9:23
Speaker 2: some people who it's a money thing. Is the military
9:26
Speaker 2: invests billions of dollars in ads, and so that was
9:30
Speaker 2: especially true with the mainstream media. I've had investigative journalists
9:34
Speaker 2: who saw this and they have said that this is
9:37
Speaker 2: the largest military justice scandal in the history of the
9:41
Speaker 2: US military. I want you to sink in for a second,
9:45
Speaker 2: the largest military justice scandal in the history of this country.
9:51
Speaker 2: But yet a lot of people are scared they get money,
9:55
Speaker 2: they're scared that they'll lose revenue sources and things like that.
9:58
Speaker 2: So you're right, it's that's how it happens, is that
10:01
Speaker 2: people are fearful to speak out. They're fearful to lose
10:04
Speaker 2: anything associated with their platform. And let me touch on
10:08
Speaker 2: some of the broader political issues, and so you brought
10:12
Speaker 2: up the political side. That's very much a big part
10:14
Speaker 2: of it. It was, and I want to encourage your audience,
10:17
Speaker 2: probably mostly men, but all to register to vote because
10:21
Speaker 2: a lot of this I think stems from the fact
10:23
Speaker 2: that politicians will cater to the female vote. And let
10:26
Speaker 2: me tell you why. It's because in every demographic women
10:31
Speaker 2: vote at much higher rates than men. In fact, the
10:34
Speaker 2: only one I think it's equal is if you have
10:37
Speaker 2: a four year degree, it's equal. Other than that, women
10:40
Speaker 2: vote at significantly high rates. So you have these feminist organizations.
10:44
Speaker 2: A lot of times they'll go to a politician and says,
10:47
Speaker 2: women will vote for you if you do this. Even
10:50
Speaker 2: though women are you know, they're smart, they don't want
10:53
Speaker 2: to support false accusations. But these groups, seeming to represent
10:57
Speaker 2: their interests, go to the politicians and says, if you
10:59
Speaker 2: change these laws, if you make it so, And we
11:02
Speaker 2: found in family court, men in family court are often
11:06
Speaker 2: treated very poorly, and it's systemic because they've leveraged this
11:10
Speaker 2: voting power to get the laws changed so that so
11:15
Speaker 2: that there is a disparity, there is an imbalance, and
11:18
Speaker 2: so a lot of men don't know and and men
11:21
Speaker 2: tend to go in case they said, well, there's nothing
11:23
Speaker 2: I can do, and that's the wrong answer. So thankfully
11:25
Speaker 2: there's people like yourself who do this, who put out
11:29
Speaker 2: this message. And it's hard because most algorithms they're gonna
11:34
Speaker 2: suppress you. In fact, I think someone coined the phrase
11:38
Speaker 2: shadow banning. It's they'll let you put it out, but
11:41
Speaker 2: instead of marketing it to the to the entire audience,
11:45
Speaker 2: you get a sliver. And so I don't know if
11:47
Speaker 2: you've seen that, but it's the same thing when we
11:50
Speaker 2: try and express this.
11:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that there's a reason. Yeah. The reason too
11:54
Speaker 1: is that I think men generally don't they don't tend
11:59
Speaker 1: to be as like say, you know, interested in voting
12:02
Speaker 1: because first of all, they're not really looking for the
12:06
Speaker 1: government to give them something, right, like, they're not looking
12:09
Speaker 1: for they they're just they just want to be left
12:11
Speaker 1: alone to sort of pursue their own you know, destiny
12:14
Speaker 1: or whatever. And if they do vote, which they did
12:17
Speaker 1: in the last election and record numbers, but if they do,
12:20
Speaker 1: it's because they're they're afraid that the state is you know,
12:23
Speaker 1: like the state is overreaching and they want to like
12:26
Speaker 1: scale it back. So they're less likely to vote because
12:29
Speaker 1: they're more likely to think, like, you know, you know,
12:31
Speaker 1: they have more of a libertarian mindset about things. But
12:35
Speaker 1: this is sort of like to their detriment because women
12:37
Speaker 1: are definitely more interested in using the states to get
12:41
Speaker 1: things done. So men almost have to kind of balance
12:44
Speaker 1: it out at least right be active just to prevent
12:48
Speaker 1: an over let's say, over over correction or over stating
12:54
Speaker 1: on women's part. And this is why women are often
12:57
Speaker 1: the ones catered to by both parties for the vote,
13:00
Speaker 1: because they know that women are more likely to vote,
13:02
Speaker 1: and they're also able to get women, like, you know,
13:06
Speaker 1: to sort of coerce them into voting for stuff that
13:09
Speaker 1: they want, you know, so they can get state power,
13:12
Speaker 1: whereas men are less interested in state power to do things.
13:16
Speaker 1: So this is like it's kind of an internal conundrum too,
13:19
Speaker 1: because the weird thing is, and I don't want to
13:23
Speaker 1: make this a political you know that much, but I
13:25
Speaker 1: am a pretty political guy. But I remember building up
13:28
Speaker 1: to this last election, I was looking at all of
13:31
Speaker 1: the the sort of advertising that the Harris campaign was
13:35
Speaker 1: putting out, and it was it was all directed at women,
13:38
Speaker 1: and it was even there was one that in particular
13:41
Speaker 1: it stood out to me, which was about essentially telling
13:44
Speaker 1: women to vote against their husbands. I don't know if
13:47
Speaker 1: you saw that one, but there was one where there
13:49
Speaker 1: were there were were these women go into the voting
13:51
Speaker 1: booth with their husbands and their husband apparently, you know,
13:55
Speaker 1: was voting Trump or something, and the women were like,
13:58
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go vote now, honey. And because the vote
14:00
Speaker 1: is secret, the suggestion, I think Julia Roberts did like
14:03
Speaker 1: the she like read over it or something, and the
14:07
Speaker 1: suggestion is that since he doesn't know, you can vote
14:09
Speaker 1: against him. And I thought it was wild because I
14:11
Speaker 1: was like, if you are married to someone, why would
14:15
Speaker 1: you have diametrically opposed views. I mean, I know that
14:18
Speaker 1: there's often a little bit of wiggle room, but like
14:21
Speaker 1: usually your partner shares your values, so there's like there
14:25
Speaker 1: should be it shouldn't be a thing, and I think
14:27
Speaker 1: that most of the time it doesn't happen. I just
14:29
Speaker 1: think that this is sort of like there's this desire
14:32
Speaker 1: to drive a wedge between men and women, and everything
14:35
Speaker 1: is an opportunity to do that, and that is to
14:37
Speaker 1: create a voting block of women, which they kind of
14:40
Speaker 1: have done. So at the end of the day, it's
14:43
Speaker 1: got nothing to do with policies or you know, sex
14:49
Speaker 1: or gender. Either way, it's it's always just been about power,
14:52
Speaker 1: and there's just like how do we get the most power.
14:54
Speaker 1: What we know we can get women to vote for
14:57
Speaker 1: us if we scare them, know, in the thinking that
15:00
Speaker 1: what what terrible thing will happen if they don't. Is
15:03
Speaker 1: why there's all this fear mongering or all the handmade
15:05
Speaker 1: sale You're gonna lose their rights all this and uh.
15:08
Speaker 1: And also there's like this another thing to do is
15:10
Speaker 1: they use sort of like a desire to get revenge
15:13
Speaker 1: on men as a group. By uh.
15:16
Speaker 2: I would share that two things with your with your
15:17
Speaker 2: male audience, and then I'll make a connection back to
15:20
Speaker 2: the argument you make with the female stuff is number
15:23
Speaker 2: one when it comes to voting. I think you may
15:26
Speaker 2: not want the government to give you anything, but you
15:28
Speaker 2: don't want.
15:29
Speaker 1: Them to take yes. And so I agree.
15:32
Speaker 2: I call it the lesser of two evils. Is if
15:35
Speaker 2: someone said, and this is a horrible example, but I said,
15:39
Speaker 2: if you can be shot or burned alive, Right, they
15:42
Speaker 2: both suck, right, but one that's a little bit less
15:45
Speaker 2: than the other.
15:46
Speaker 1: And yeah, for sure use.
15:48
Speaker 2: That metaphor, but people usually understand it. And going back
15:51
Speaker 2: to the division you talked about in the in the
15:54
Speaker 2: voting household, you're one hundred percent right. And I think
15:58
Speaker 2: the mistake that really opened that door was they were
16:02
Speaker 2: pushing a lot of the transgender and the women's sports,
16:05
Speaker 2: and so women kind of woke up and said whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay,
16:09
Speaker 2: now you're going too far when people have been saying no, no,
16:13
Speaker 2: they've been going too far in your name.
16:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, but now it's affecting you. It's in your yeah,
16:19
Speaker 1: and you're right.
16:20
Speaker 2: And so so now it's you know, if you saw
16:22
Speaker 2: some of the Harris campaign, you saw Okay, I've got
16:24
Speaker 2: a glock. I've got this is at the last hour.
16:27
Speaker 2: All of your policies have been anti mail, but you
16:31
Speaker 2: want to appeal to them, and you think that they're
16:34
Speaker 2: smart enough not to understand that. And then the same
16:36
Speaker 2: time with the ladies is that ladies have different issues
16:39
Speaker 2: that they find important and voting against their husband may
16:42
Speaker 2: not be the answer. Also, you know they have issues
16:45
Speaker 2: that are on this other side that they want addressed.
16:48
Speaker 2: And so it's really about holding politicians to what makes sense.
16:52
Speaker 2: And I'll give an example with the university side. I
16:56
Speaker 2: also work with them a little bit. It was when
16:58
Speaker 2: President Obama came in, he did a Dear Colleague letter.
17:01
Speaker 2: He basically said, if you want funding, I want you
17:03
Speaker 2: to I want you to make the system like this.
17:06
Speaker 2: So as an example, when we talk about equity, be
17:09
Speaker 2: equity and fair and equal rights. It was this side,
17:13
Speaker 2: you give an attorney to this side, you don't. This
17:16
Speaker 2: side was an evidence. This side doesn't get a copy,
17:20
Speaker 2: this side can testify, this side doesn't get to cross examine.
17:24
Speaker 2: The person who did the investigation, same one who does
17:27
Speaker 2: the ruling. And so you go, wait a minute, you've
17:31
Speaker 2: created an imbalance. You wanted this, but now you have this.
17:34
Speaker 2: And these were cases in the civilian side that never
17:37
Speaker 2: even went or they tried to send them to civilian
17:40
Speaker 2: court and the police said there's either not enough evidence
17:43
Speaker 2: or there's no evidence. But administratively they did this. And
17:46
Speaker 2: then Trump came in his first tour. All he did
17:49
Speaker 2: was due process. He did this, and then President Biden
17:53
Speaker 2: came in, he did it again. Right, Trump came in again,
17:57
Speaker 2: he did this. And so what I tell your audience
18:01
Speaker 2: this is important to vote because if you don't hold
18:04
Speaker 2: your politicians to account, they'll keep doing this.
18:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you can, you can. You can do
18:10
Speaker 1: so in a reasonable way without necessarily wanting to, you know,
18:15
Speaker 1: without well while also keeping the governmentunder control. Part of
18:17
Speaker 1: it is doing that because we obviously we don't want
18:20
Speaker 1: the overreach. But uh, Okay, so I'm gonna let's said
18:23
Speaker 1: put the political stuff over here for a second. So
18:28
Speaker 1: what what would you say has changed the most? Well, actually, no,
18:35
Speaker 1: before we do that, have you looked because we talked
18:37
Speaker 1: about how this sort of started around the time of
18:39
Speaker 1: the Me to movement, But I think it's much older
18:41
Speaker 1: because you brought up President Obama and the Dear Colleague
18:44
Speaker 1: letter was put in while he was in office, so
18:46
Speaker 1: that was before the Me Too movement. But have you
18:48
Speaker 1: ever wondered or looked into whether or not this this
18:51
Speaker 1: thing in particular with the military that we're talking about,
18:53
Speaker 1: could have even predated that, like maybe going back to
18:56
Speaker 1: George W. Bush or Bill Clinton or so.
18:59
Speaker 2: There was something in nineteen ninety one called Tailbook. I
19:02
Speaker 2: don't know if you remember that story. So carrier aviators
19:05
Speaker 2: have a hook on the back of their plane. They
19:07
Speaker 2: land on an aircraft period to stop. There was a
19:09
Speaker 2: conference they had and there were allegations of aviators party.
19:13
Speaker 2: So if you've seen top Gun, you've seen what that
19:17
Speaker 2: looks like.
19:18
Speaker 1: A bunch of dudes playing volleyball. I'm pretty like Aryl
19:20
Speaker 1: Kilmer and.
19:22
Speaker 2: Brinking and you know, hitting on Kelly McGill. Stuff like that.
19:24
Speaker 1: And then they go to they go to the restaurant
19:26
Speaker 1: and sing the song.
19:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there were allegations of impropriety. Maybe Criminal Investigator
19:33
Speaker 2: Service did an exhaustive investigation, and none of them face
19:38
Speaker 2: criminal charges because based on the evidence or the lack thereof.
19:41
Speaker 2: So you had a lot of politicians who were upset
19:45
Speaker 2: about that, and so I believe.
19:47
Speaker 1: Either there weren't convictions and that they okay.
19:50
Speaker 2: So nineteen ninety one and then fast forward to the
19:53
Speaker 2: twenty ten, twenty eleven ish time frame is now they
19:59
Speaker 2: want and results equel prosecutions and convictions. So you're right,
20:06
Speaker 2: it is a much bigger thing. And so systemically you
20:09
Speaker 2: just you change the laws. And I'll give you an
20:13
Speaker 2: example of one that will really scare you. You ready.
20:16
Speaker 2: So in the military, it was in the last National
20:21
Speaker 2: Defense Authorization Act, so it was the one last year
20:24
Speaker 2: to start January first of twenty twenty five. Under the
20:27
Speaker 2: Biden administration, it was that in the military now sexual
20:31
Speaker 2: harassment is two years in prison and a dishonorable discharge.
20:36
Speaker 2: It's the only place that that exists. And it gets worse.
20:39
Speaker 2: There are some people who believe if you look at
20:42
Speaker 2: them too long, you're sexually harassing them.
20:44
Speaker 1: I was going to say, what constitutes sexual harassment?
20:47
Speaker 2: Like, they change it so it's easier to get a conviction.
20:50
Speaker 2: So I tell parents, I go, you know, if your
20:53
Speaker 2: son looks at someone too long and they say their
20:56
Speaker 2: eyes are up here, will they be prosecuted? Language? Right,
21:01
Speaker 2: profanity is What are the odds you're gonna hear profanity
21:05
Speaker 2: in the military. I think it's one hundred percent. But
21:08
Speaker 2: if someone internalizes that, I'll give you an example. If
21:11
Speaker 2: you were in a closed door office and you tell
21:14
Speaker 2: me a dirty joke, let's say, and the door is
21:16
Speaker 2: closed and someone's on the other side, and they overhear it,
21:20
Speaker 2: and they overhear sexual harassment, Yeah, two years in prison
21:24
Speaker 2: and a dishonorable discharge like Billy Bush.
21:28
Speaker 1: Look the hot mic, yeah right?
21:29
Speaker 2: The hot mic is that is that enough is And
21:33
Speaker 2: it's systematically changing these laws to make it easier and
21:38
Speaker 2: easier to conviction. So that's what I tell men. You know,
21:40
Speaker 2: we go back to the voting and just and asking
21:43
Speaker 2: these questions that if we're not active, if we don't say,
21:47
Speaker 2: wait a minute, this doesn't make sense, tell me about this,
21:50
Speaker 2: then things like this happen in the.
21:52
Speaker 1: Dark yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up because
21:55
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I was getting at. So like
21:57
Speaker 1: why I said, let's go what you know, if there
22:00
Speaker 1: were like things like this happening before the Dear Colleague letter,
22:04
Speaker 1: before the metob Because I think that this is like
22:06
Speaker 1: a very old problem that's just been making very small steps,
22:11
Speaker 1: like like in like little nudges towards the point we're
22:14
Speaker 1: at now. And based on what you just told me,
22:16
Speaker 1: that sounds like, you know, I was gonna bring this
22:18
Speaker 1: up just as an aside, but did you see what
22:22
Speaker 1: they just like they just did this story in the
22:25
Speaker 1: UK about undercover female joggers that are they're going there
22:32
Speaker 1: so there's female cops disguised as joggers and they're jogging
22:37
Speaker 1: on the street in the UK and the purpose of
22:41
Speaker 1: it is to catch cat callers. So like now in
22:45
Speaker 1: the UK, they don't have they don't have the First
22:47
Speaker 1: Amendment and they're there have been I remember this, but
22:51
Speaker 1: this the see this this is something that I just
22:54
Speaker 1: learned about like yesterday. I think that they that they're
22:58
Speaker 1: basically have women and they're you know, they're in pairs,
23:01
Speaker 1: they're attractive, they put on you know, like exercise clothes
23:06
Speaker 1: like tight yoga pants and they go for a jog
23:09
Speaker 1: and I guess if a man flirts with them or
23:12
Speaker 1: if they get cat called or sexually harassed, which again
23:16
Speaker 1: is very vague, like you know, it could be anything,
23:18
Speaker 1: could be a guy leering. I think one of them
23:21
Speaker 1: even said like, you know, if they stare too long, right, So,
23:24
Speaker 1: and I wonder like is this is this kind of
23:26
Speaker 1: a fetish thing, like are you doing this to get attention?
23:28
Speaker 1: But then you want to be able to punish men,
23:30
Speaker 1: like do you like it's but anyway, they're the the
23:34
Speaker 1: It's so ridiculous that I'm like this, this is just
23:37
Speaker 1: beyond the pale. And yet what you're describing is that
23:41
Speaker 1: happening here and this this country is still the freest.
23:45
Speaker 1: But that's ridiculous, you know what I'm saying. So yeah,
23:48
Speaker 1: but like that there are I don't know what the
23:51
Speaker 1: penalties would be in the UK, but I wouldn't be
23:53
Speaker 1: surprised because they had banned I think they banned or
23:56
Speaker 1: made it illegal to cat call in Nottingham and like
23:59
Speaker 1: a couple of other places in Scotland, they made it
24:03
Speaker 1: to where it's illegal for you to boast about sexual
24:05
Speaker 1: conquests in public. So if you're like in the pub
24:09
Speaker 1: and you're like hanging out with your mates and you
24:12
Speaker 1: boast about somebody you like, you know, a date you
24:15
Speaker 1: went on or something, and somebody overhears it and they
24:17
Speaker 1: don't like it, you can you can go to jail.
24:21
Speaker 2: And that is that's where the US military is going.
24:23
Speaker 2: I had not heard about that. The sad part is
24:26
Speaker 2: it doesn't surprise me. Is there's a gentleman who he's
24:30
Speaker 2: on X that he and I communicate. He's in he's
24:33
Speaker 2: in the UK, and he tells me crazy stories like this.
24:37
Speaker 2: I mean, it's appropriate you got the Union jack on
24:39
Speaker 2: your shirt to represent the craziness that's going on. But
24:43
Speaker 2: but it doesn't surprise me. And it's why I tell people.
24:46
Speaker 2: I even tell women, and I want to be especially clear,
24:49
Speaker 2: is we don't support sexual assault. We don't support sexual harassment.
24:53
Speaker 2: The idea though, is I'll give you an example of
24:56
Speaker 2: a friend of mine. She has a large breast and
24:59
Speaker 2: so so her thing is if you look at them
25:02
Speaker 2: too long, she considers that sexual harassment. And so I
25:05
Speaker 2: asked her, I said, well, how many seconds can they look?
25:08
Speaker 2: She says, what what do you mean? I said, how
25:10
Speaker 2: many potatoes, like one potato, two potatoes, And so she
25:14
Speaker 2: goes three potatoes, and I said, okay. And then the
25:17
Speaker 2: next person is it three potatoes? Is it four potatoes?
25:20
Speaker 2: So if he goes four potatoes or five potatoes, does
25:24
Speaker 2: that warrant? Send it in prison and put them on
25:26
Speaker 2: the registry and give him it. And and it's you
25:29
Speaker 2: get quiet because you're like, this is where we're going,
25:34
Speaker 2: and if people don't speak up, it'll get worse, and
25:37
Speaker 2: then it'll happen. And and to your point, people will
25:41
Speaker 2: say it was it was the have you ever heard
25:43
Speaker 2: of the boiling frog principle, where yeah, that's what it is.
25:46
Speaker 2: It's a boiling yeah, billy frog that if you don't
25:50
Speaker 2: stop it. Now you're like, well, it's just the military, guys,
25:53
Speaker 2: I won't worry about it. Okay, it's just the college
25:54
Speaker 2: and university guys. I won't worry about it. Okay. Now
25:57
Speaker 2: it's here and it's everyone.
26:00
Speaker 1: But people are losing their jobs, like I mean, granted
26:03
Speaker 1: it's not in law, because it's still there's still a
26:06
Speaker 1: chance to keep that, you know, from becoming like a
26:09
Speaker 1: I don't know, like a crime, but that doesn't mean
26:12
Speaker 1: they're not going to That's why I pointed out, it's
26:15
Speaker 1: like these bait, these little nudges that have been going
26:17
Speaker 1: on for a very long time. Where we are now,
26:20
Speaker 1: we probably would have found it absurd twenty years ago, right,
26:23
Speaker 1: it would have been absurd, but now it isn't absurd
26:25
Speaker 1: now it's reality. So this is like why I'm bringing
26:28
Speaker 1: it up. And and the other thing is that I
26:30
Speaker 1: want to tell people to like what are it's sort
26:34
Speaker 1: of like to help us see the signs. You know,
26:37
Speaker 1: we want to look at the canary and the coal
26:38
Speaker 1: mine so that we know what's coming and we can
26:42
Speaker 1: nip it in the bud before it gets out of control.
26:44
Speaker 1: So you know, I and what for me, the way
26:47
Speaker 1: it starts is that I don't maybe this is radical,
26:52
Speaker 1: but I don't think it is. I don't validate the
26:55
Speaker 1: me Too movement at all, Like I don't I don't
26:57
Speaker 1: say it was a good idea at the time. I
26:59
Speaker 1: don't value at all because we already have laws in place,
27:03
Speaker 1: We already have things that should have been done that
27:06
Speaker 1: you know, if you didn't do it, Like if I
27:08
Speaker 1: got mugged ten years ago, I can't make a police
27:11
Speaker 1: and I didn't report it. I can't make a police
27:13
Speaker 1: report now and expect justice to be done because I
27:16
Speaker 1: didn't as an adult, I didn't do anything when it happened.
27:19
Speaker 1: I didn't like address it, right, I think that's the
27:22
Speaker 1: right thing to do. And the reason is simply because
27:24
Speaker 1: it's not because I want to be cruel. It's because
27:27
Speaker 1: we have to like operate in in it's very important
27:32
Speaker 1: that we hold on to these principles of due process.
27:35
Speaker 1: And so the me too movement is built. It's not legal,
27:40
Speaker 1: it's not legislative yet. And that's the thing, right, if
27:43
Speaker 1: none of this is binding, it's just a hashtag on
27:47
Speaker 1: the internet, and nothing can be let's say, none of
27:53
Speaker 1: its career can be corroborated. So if somebody can just
27:56
Speaker 1: say something anything, attach a hashtag to it, and we're
27:59
Speaker 1: supposed to believe it. So I think that it starts
28:03
Speaker 1: with not validating it at all and only looking at like, okay,
28:06
Speaker 1: did you follow a report? Let me see the report.
28:09
Speaker 1: What's the evidence? Right, that's it? And if and if
28:11
Speaker 1: it's and even if you everything is like above board
28:15
Speaker 1: and he was guilty and he goes to jail. Whatever
28:18
Speaker 1: it is that even though that's all true, it doesn't
28:21
Speaker 1: mean anything about our society. It just means something about
28:26
Speaker 1: that guy, right. It's not like a U or or
28:29
Speaker 1: that girl, because you know women will do it too.
28:31
Speaker 1: It's because the problem is that if you start looking
28:34
Speaker 1: at things in these uh systemic terms because there was
28:39
Speaker 1: an experience you had once, then you will you will
28:42
Speaker 1: make let's say, collective guilt will become the norm, and
28:46
Speaker 1: then you'll have collective punishment that will follow. And that's
28:49
Speaker 1: where we're kind of teetering on right now. So I
28:52
Speaker 1: have to like, that's my approach at least to to
28:55
Speaker 1: uh sort of keep the damage from spreading. But also, yeah,
28:58
Speaker 1: look out for these early signs, you know.
29:01
Speaker 2: So let me give you an example the military to
29:03
Speaker 2: kind of drive that home. So they were training in
29:06
Speaker 2: the military where they were saying, if you're the partner
29:09
Speaker 2: who got penetrated, if you had one alcoholic beverage, you
29:13
Speaker 2: couldn't consent, but the other partner could. So I want
29:18
Speaker 2: your audience to think about that. You go out for
29:20
Speaker 2: your anniversary, you have one glass of Champion your birthday,
29:25
Speaker 2: and now this guy is a sex offender who can
29:29
Speaker 2: go to prison because you had one dream. You can
29:31
Speaker 2: drive legally in any state or territory of the United
29:34
Speaker 2: States after one. But they're saying you can't consent. And
29:39
Speaker 2: what's hurting true victims is that they're allowing the false
29:45
Speaker 2: accusations to come out. I mean, you know, if you
29:48
Speaker 2: look at pop culture today, there's a guy named Justin Baldoni,
29:52
Speaker 2: and you have nineteen groups who wrote an amicust brief,
29:56
Speaker 2: a brief of support to the person suing him, even
30:00
Speaker 2: though he's presented all of his evidence via social media, right,
30:04
Speaker 2: he's got a website, He's put his evidence out because
30:06
Speaker 2: he doesn't believe that the legal system will support it.
30:11
Speaker 2: And so what is heartening to me is you have
30:13
Speaker 2: a lot of influencers who are seeing that evidence and
30:16
Speaker 2: they're like, wait, this person's lying, this person's not being truthful.
30:20
Speaker 2: And a lot of them are women, and they're surprised
30:24
Speaker 2: that it's happening. But you're like, wait a minute. To
30:27
Speaker 2: your point, those systematic changes have been happening. And so
30:32
Speaker 2: now even there are some of them who was saying
30:34
Speaker 2: this is ridiculous, like you've gone too far. You know,
30:38
Speaker 2: Justin Baldoni is a feminist, right, it's very much So
30:42
Speaker 2: if that guy doesn't have a chance, then none of us.
30:46
Speaker 1: I remember Justin Baldoni putting out a PSA when me
30:49
Speaker 1: too started and I and he was going on about
30:53
Speaker 1: like how he is a good man and he's not
30:55
Speaker 1: going to do these things that these other men would do,
30:57
Speaker 1: and now here he is, and I'm like, I'm sorry,
30:59
Speaker 1: but when you run with wolves, you're gonna get bit
31:03
Speaker 1: But yes, he was. He was the one good man,
31:06
Speaker 1: which is what we call these kind of virtue signaling
31:08
Speaker 1: male feminist types that will say, oh, most men are trash,
31:12
Speaker 1: but not me, and then it's only a matter of
31:15
Speaker 1: time before and look, I don't even think he's guilty
31:17
Speaker 1: of anything, but it doesn't really matter because he was
31:19
Speaker 1: accused and now all of you know, his friends turned
31:23
Speaker 1: against him because he's on the wrong side of that allegation.
31:26
Speaker 2: So right, that's right, And it's you don't see other groups.
31:30
Speaker 2: You see some podcasters, I have seen some, but you
31:33
Speaker 2: don't see any of these big organizations rallying to do
31:36
Speaker 2: amaricist briefs for him to say, wait a minute, it's well, yeah,
31:40
Speaker 2: we know the evidence doesn't support what they're saying, but
31:43
Speaker 2: it's important that they have the right to say it
31:45
Speaker 2: because that's their experience. But you're like, even if it
31:48
Speaker 2: doesn't fit, even if the evidence doesn't support you know,
31:52
Speaker 2: and I want your audience to really understand that is
31:54
Speaker 2: we support true victims. We don't want people to be
31:57
Speaker 2: sexually arrest we don't want people to be harassed. I'll
32:01
Speaker 2: diverge from the essay side a little bit. I have
32:06
Speaker 2: a friend, a white female friend who you know, she
32:09
Speaker 2: was in a military army. She got falsely accused of
32:12
Speaker 2: being racist right to someone who was black. And so
32:17
Speaker 2: now here's the thing that most people don't know. Her
32:20
Speaker 2: husband's black, their child's biracial, but the investigators didn't know that.
32:25
Speaker 2: So it's the person wasn't doing her job, and so
32:29
Speaker 2: this person I know punished her and to retaliate, she
32:32
Speaker 2: made a false accusation. And when the investigators came in
32:35
Speaker 2: and they saw the picture and they go, oops, it's
32:38
Speaker 2: hard to prove this because of this Brian, they changed
32:42
Speaker 2: the charge. They changed large to get her. And what
32:46
Speaker 2: I shared with her was I was when I was
32:48
Speaker 2: in the military, I had an African American man file
32:51
Speaker 2: charges against me who says I was hard on him
32:54
Speaker 2: because he was black. And my commanding officer laughed and
32:58
Speaker 2: said artist I've never seen this before. It was because
33:02
Speaker 2: he was doing something wrong. I was going in there
33:04
Speaker 2: having him correct it, and he was going to be
33:06
Speaker 2: punished for it. But once he filed that charge, it
33:09
Speaker 2: took two weeks to clear me. I could not punish
33:12
Speaker 2: him for the wrong he had done because it would
33:14
Speaker 2: be seen as retaliation. And so that's why I tell
33:17
Speaker 2: your audience is false accusations, or someone lies and says
33:21
Speaker 2: something about you that is not true, you have evidence
33:23
Speaker 2: to prove it's not true. It's it could be your workplace.
33:26
Speaker 2: In fact, I asked women all the time. I said,
33:28
Speaker 2: has a woman ever lied on you? And so far
33:32
Speaker 2: I have not found one who said no, they've had
33:34
Speaker 2: no Well, why would she lie? Oh she was jealous,
33:39
Speaker 2: don't have a litany of things. And so then I said,
33:42
Speaker 2: why would you ever say believe women? Why wouldn't you
33:45
Speaker 2: say believe evidence? Because if you accuse each other, you're
33:48
Speaker 2: gonna have to use evidence. So why does that change
33:50
Speaker 2: if one of those is a man? And I get
33:53
Speaker 2: blank stares Brian.
33:56
Speaker 1: Oh, I know, I know, I get it. I was
33:59
Speaker 1: gonna say, I was gonna say, well, I got a superchow,
34:05
Speaker 1: But let me read that first so Richard Bierre gave
34:07
Speaker 1: us five dollars. Thank you, Richard, And he says it's
34:10
Speaker 1: not just registering to vote, but it's actually showing up
34:12
Speaker 1: to the polls. Remember that AOC won her seat because
34:15
Speaker 1: only four percent of the eligible voters turned up to
34:17
Speaker 1: the polling stations. If you don't show up, then someone
34:20
Speaker 1: opposed to you can get in office. Let's not forget
34:22
Speaker 1: cowboy Sam pitching how he was man enough to vote
34:25
Speaker 1: for a woman as well. All right, thank you for that. Yeah,
34:30
Speaker 1: oh I was gonna say so. Yeah, No, you do
34:32
Speaker 1: advocate for victims because false allegations, like you can be
34:36
Speaker 1: a victim of that, and it's very traumatic. Like there
34:39
Speaker 1: are studies at a show that people who have been
34:41
Speaker 1: falsely accused, even if they're not convicted, just like the
34:46
Speaker 1: it's because it's such a heinous thing to them. It is, like,
34:50
Speaker 1: you know, it is as psychologically harmful as actually like
34:54
Speaker 1: being a victim. So I think that when you advocate
34:57
Speaker 1: for the false accused, you are advocating for victims. And
35:00
Speaker 1: that's another thing that we have to like change the
35:03
Speaker 1: perspective on, you know, like we have to stop thinking
35:05
Speaker 1: that false allegations are not harmful. I mean, I don't
35:08
Speaker 1: know if you remember, this is a weapon that gets
35:12
Speaker 1: used to for a number of things. But if you
35:15
Speaker 1: might remember Justice Kavanaugh, Brett Kavanaugh, who was trying to
35:21
Speaker 1: get into the Supreme Court, and what did they do?
35:25
Speaker 1: He got accused of a bunch of stuff. And if
35:26
Speaker 1: it wasn't for the fact that you know, he had
35:29
Speaker 1: like kept the record of like everything he had, like
35:32
Speaker 1: a binder of his whole life or a diary or something.
35:34
Speaker 1: If he didn't have that, then you know, who knows
35:37
Speaker 1: where it would have went. But I remember him breaking
35:38
Speaker 1: down because the allegations were you know, stressful on him,
35:44
Speaker 1: his reputation and his family. I mean, his kids have
35:47
Speaker 1: to hear this stuff. Also, Johnny Depp, same thing, right,
35:51
Speaker 1: His children were getting bullied at school by other children
35:55
Speaker 1: who claimed that, you know, their father was a wife
35:58
Speaker 1: beater because you know, and that was because the media
36:01
Speaker 1: got behind Amber heard and everything else. So like, yeah,
36:04
Speaker 1: I think that you know, you victor people who have
36:07
Speaker 1: been accused falsely are victims that that that I'm you know,
36:10
Speaker 1: that's another thing that I think, you know, we have
36:12
Speaker 1: to change the language around so that.
36:16
Speaker 2: One hundred percent believe that people who are falsely accused
36:19
Speaker 2: our victims. And I'm going to go a step further,
36:21
Speaker 2: is is applying a victim label when there's no evidence
36:25
Speaker 2: to support it. So if you notice I say accuser,
36:28
Speaker 2: but you have people who will say you're a victim.
36:30
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, the facts don't support this, and but
36:34
Speaker 2: they will give them that title before any evidence is
36:37
Speaker 2: looked at. And it's incredibly wrong. We've had we've had
36:42
Speaker 2: judges come to US investigators, prosecutors, defense attorneys, even general
36:48
Speaker 2: officers quietly to say, look, we know this was wrong.
36:51
Speaker 2: There was pressure to do it, and so we had
36:54
Speaker 2: to do If we didn't do it, we were going
36:56
Speaker 2: to be replaced by somebody who did do it. And
36:58
Speaker 2: so that's the sad part that it's going back to you.
37:03
Speaker 2: I love that super chat where the guy goes, not
37:05
Speaker 2: only you have to you gotta show up, you gotta vote,
37:07
Speaker 2: and you got to you gotta demand of your politicians,
37:10
Speaker 2: look like, what's your position on this? Hey, we want
37:13
Speaker 2: this And it's only by doing that where they're gonna
37:17
Speaker 2: represent your interest. And so you silently protesting by not
37:22
Speaker 2: voting hurts nobody but you, and and and and the
37:26
Speaker 2: collective is you have to go and make your presence known.
37:29
Speaker 2: And I think that's why I'm grateful for people like
37:32
Speaker 2: yourself doing shows like this, because it educates. And so
37:37
Speaker 2: one person will till ten and then they'll tell ten,
37:40
Speaker 2: and then you will see events like you had more
37:43
Speaker 2: male voters come out, and and now you see certain
37:46
Speaker 2: parties going, well, maybe we were too hasty, maybe we
37:50
Speaker 2: need we need to consider men in this, but guess
37:53
Speaker 2: what you should have always considered men. Yes, it's about
37:55
Speaker 2: equal rights. It's not about this, it's about this mm hmm.
38:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh, I think that we we it starts,
38:06
Speaker 1: but again by changing that language a little bit so
38:09
Speaker 1: that that becomes normalized. That's why we're interested a lot
38:12
Speaker 1: in the culture because that's where people don't really get
38:16
Speaker 1: their values by, you know, by exposure, right, they see
38:20
Speaker 1: it around them. Like people in the chat are talking
38:23
Speaker 1: about how these kinds of allegations are used in family
38:27
Speaker 1: courts so you can get access to kids. And I know, guys,
38:31
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm still married. It's gonna be ten years
38:34
Speaker 1: this year. I hope that we go for another ten.
38:37
Speaker 1: But I know guys that have gotten like just absolutely dragged.
38:41
Speaker 1: And it's not just about like them losing money or
38:43
Speaker 1: losing their house. But it's about what when like they
38:47
Speaker 1: get into the courts and that woman that they were
38:50
Speaker 1: married to is like they don't even know them anymore.
38:52
Speaker 1: Like they're completely vicious and I've seen it and it's
38:56
Speaker 1: it's ugly and it's painful. So yeah, I mean that
39:01
Speaker 1: there's a number of ways that this like comes out.
39:04
Speaker 1: So but let's go back, going back to the military thing.
39:07
Speaker 1: So what would you say, Well, let me ask you this,
39:10
Speaker 1: how would you say you you have been changed by
39:12
Speaker 1: this in your time doing it, Like what's changed in
39:16
Speaker 1: you as a person after doing this for twelve years?
39:20
Speaker 2: So I'll tell a story and then I'll connect it
39:23
Speaker 2: to that change. So I had a mom come to
39:26
Speaker 2: me one day and said, Arvis, I am so grateful
39:28
Speaker 2: you were falsely accused. And I'm like, what did I
39:35
Speaker 2: hit your dog or something? And she goes, no, listen,
39:38
Speaker 2: she goes, I thought the generals would support my son
39:42
Speaker 2: when he went in. I really did. But if you
39:45
Speaker 2: hadn't been falsely accused, then who would do this? And
39:49
Speaker 2: I said, look, I get it. You thought the generals
39:51
Speaker 2: and the admirals and the politicians and whoever would and
39:54
Speaker 2: I said, and so did I. And so I think
39:57
Speaker 2: I was naive because I I thought that there were
40:00
Speaker 2: institutions and people who believed in due process and equal rights.
40:06
Speaker 2: That you know, there are large organizations that I thought
40:08
Speaker 2: would come to people's defense and they fought to make
40:11
Speaker 2: sure things were equal. So the biggest, one of the
40:14
Speaker 2: biggest changes, I see that that's not necessarily the case,
40:18
Speaker 2: and I was naive about it. I really was a
40:21
Speaker 2: lot of men are the example you give, I have
40:24
Speaker 2: one where it was a military member. He was falsely accused.
40:28
Speaker 2: He got found not guilty of all of the sexual
40:30
Speaker 2: assault charges, but they put some military centric charges in
40:34
Speaker 2: there to get him. His ex wife used the fact
40:36
Speaker 2: that he was charged to get full custody of their children.
40:40
Speaker 2: He has to have another independent person there just to
40:44
Speaker 2: see his son. And so you're right, it's it's weaponized.
40:50
Speaker 2: And so I guess my naivety was stripped away about
40:53
Speaker 2: family courts and justice and doing the right thing when
40:58
Speaker 2: it comes to institutions and people and believing that. So
41:01
Speaker 2: my faith in people and institutions really took a hit.
41:05
Speaker 2: That's one of the biggest changes, if that makes sense
41:07
Speaker 2: at all.
41:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, And how like, were you surprised at the
41:13
Speaker 1: scope of these issues after your experience with it? I
41:18
Speaker 1: think you were the only one. And then it was like, whoa,
41:21
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of people.
41:22
Speaker 2: So that's the irony. I knew it was happening, I
41:26
Speaker 2: didn't know to the degree. So as an example I had,
41:30
Speaker 2: she was a navy pair of legal at the one
41:32
Speaker 2: time she saw five hundred cases in one year at
41:34
Speaker 2: like one navy base, and so she's a pair of leegal.
41:39
Speaker 2: She answers to her chain of commands. She said, this
41:40
Speaker 2: is wrong, what are you doing here? And they fire
41:43
Speaker 2: her and she's the number one. She's number one e six,
41:46
Speaker 2: so she's the number one person of all of the
41:49
Speaker 2: East in that job. To get her to be quiet,
41:52
Speaker 2: and so I had to wait until she retired, and
41:55
Speaker 2: then she did an interview and then bam, they scooped
41:59
Speaker 2: her up and gave her a So now she can't
42:00
Speaker 2: speak anymore. And so you're right, is it? Let me
42:06
Speaker 2: give something that's hopeful that that also helped change me,
42:10
Speaker 2: is that there are good people, men and women out
42:13
Speaker 2: there who know this is a problem and who've come
42:16
Speaker 2: forward to say, look, this is this is bigger than
42:19
Speaker 2: I thought, because they've added to the story. Is we
42:23
Speaker 2: have a victim's advocate, for instance, who used to work
42:26
Speaker 2: for one of the companies. It's a nonprofit, and she
42:29
Speaker 2: got set because she was forced to push false accusers forward.
42:33
Speaker 2: And so she's the one who shared with us. Wait
42:35
Speaker 2: a minute, they're teaching people how to win their case
42:38
Speaker 2: with zero evidence, and you're like, wow, is and there's
42:41
Speaker 2: secret Facebook groups kind of like that are we dating
42:44
Speaker 2: the same guy? Kind of Facebook groups? But it's how
42:46
Speaker 2: to win your case with zero evidence. So we were
42:49
Speaker 2: able to yeah that to people. Yeah, because it was
42:52
Speaker 2: a true victim came forward and says, I don't want this.
42:55
Speaker 2: So you're right one on one hand, my faith was
42:58
Speaker 2: very damaged and people in institutions. But on the other
43:01
Speaker 2: as we do this and as people look at the
43:03
Speaker 2: evidence and more and more people help us put our
43:07
Speaker 2: message out, I am hopeful because the American people are
43:11
Speaker 2: resilient and they're coming out of their their shelves and
43:14
Speaker 2: they're saying, hey, this is wrong, we don't want this.
43:16
Speaker 2: So I know that was a very long answer to
43:19
Speaker 2: a short question. So I hope they got out there.
43:22
Speaker 2: It's something I.
43:23
Speaker 1: Say, yeah, No, that's good. That's good. So you've been
43:28
Speaker 1: making a lot of connections. I remember we when we
43:31
Speaker 1: talked the first time. You made some friends. You have
43:34
Speaker 1: a little like team of people from kind of all
43:38
Speaker 1: over the country and they all have wild stories to tell.
43:41
Speaker 1: Do you like meet up with them like on a
43:43
Speaker 1: regular basis? Do you guys do any like sort of
43:45
Speaker 1: like in person meetups or anything like that.
43:48
Speaker 2: We have when it makes sense to do so. Mostly
43:51
Speaker 2: it's phone, it's zoom, it's it's it's conferencing what we
43:54
Speaker 2: have in the past where people have come in or
43:56
Speaker 2: I've been able to go there and we will meet
43:59
Speaker 2: and it's that shared history and you're just like, wow,
44:05
Speaker 2: it's And that's the biggest thing is when people go, hey,
44:08
Speaker 2: it's not just you, it's not just your family. And
44:12
Speaker 2: I will tell you some of the staunchest supporters I
44:15
Speaker 2: have are women who have been victims whose sons have
44:19
Speaker 2: now been falsely accused. And they say, wait a minute, Yeah,
44:22
Speaker 2: in the sixties or seventies, I had to deal with
44:24
Speaker 2: some stuff, but my son was falsely accused. This is
44:28
Speaker 2: not what we wanted, this is not progress, this is
44:30
Speaker 2: not equal. And these same people are saying, what about
44:34
Speaker 2: equal responsibility. What about equal accountability? And that means what
44:39
Speaker 2: happens to false accusers? Should they be punished, should they
44:42
Speaker 2: be put on a registry? Should they go to prison
44:45
Speaker 2: for what they're doing? So, so you're right, I was
44:48
Speaker 2: floored when I found out how big the situation was.
44:51
Speaker 2: I also was thankful that I was able to help
44:53
Speaker 2: again this mom who said I'm so grateful for you
44:56
Speaker 2: being falsely accused. It took me back at first, but
44:58
Speaker 2: then I kept listening and she said, wait, it's because
45:01
Speaker 2: if not you, who And there's a quote I saw
45:05
Speaker 2: that I tell people and I forget who said it's
45:07
Speaker 2: someone famous. He said, there's three types of people, more
45:10
Speaker 2: or less. He said, there's those that see, those that
45:15
Speaker 2: see when shown, and those that don't see. So we're
45:19
Speaker 2: doing these podcasts to help those who see win show.
45:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's for sure. So I was gonna say one
45:28
Speaker 1: other thing. When we talked about this last time you
45:31
Speaker 1: we talked about how this isn't just like a men's issue,
45:35
Speaker 1: although that, to me is the most important thing, but
45:37
Speaker 1: it's actually like a national security issue because men, you know,
45:41
Speaker 1: when this is going on, nobody wants to join the military,
45:44
Speaker 1: and you know, it's keeping them out because you feel
45:47
Speaker 1: like these people don't have your back, you know. And
45:50
Speaker 1: we're talking about really young guys too, right, Like they're
45:52
Speaker 1: eighteen and they're you know, full of full of piston
45:56
Speaker 1: vinegar and they want to like go out and you know,
45:59
Speaker 1: basically be they can be. But they are also young
46:02
Speaker 1: men with high tesosterone and there's women around that like
46:05
Speaker 1: a man in uniform. So there's all kinds of problems
46:08
Speaker 1: that can be introduced. And so this is like a
46:11
Speaker 1: this could be a national it is a national security issue.
46:13
Speaker 1: But now that we have let's say, the military is
46:17
Speaker 1: not the same military it was, you know, a couple
46:21
Speaker 1: of years ago. Do you do you know, because I
46:26
Speaker 1: don't know if you talked to people that are in
46:27
Speaker 1: the military still, if you have like some connections there,
46:30
Speaker 1: you do, okay, So do you know if there are
46:33
Speaker 1: any steps like either you know, on paper or conversations
46:38
Speaker 1: going on that are going to attempt to address these issues.
46:43
Speaker 2: So we do have people on active duty, We have
46:46
Speaker 2: general officers and apps who tell us stuff quietly privately.
46:52
Speaker 2: So I would tell you there was a task and
46:54
Speaker 2: Purpose article. I don't know if you had a chance
46:56
Speaker 2: to look at it, or it talked about one sea right,
47:00
Speaker 2: the one the army said Hey, we're going to start
47:03
Speaker 2: going after false accusers. So so now we want to now.
47:07
Speaker 1: We covered that. We covered that, Yes, yes, we covered
47:11
Speaker 1: it on our news show. We did that was like
47:12
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago.
47:13
Speaker 2: So what you're starting to see is that there's politicians
47:18
Speaker 2: who are starting to wake up. And politicians are scared
47:21
Speaker 2: because again we talked about the female vote is and
47:24
Speaker 2: then they have their own skeletons, so they don't want
47:27
Speaker 2: to come forward on this. And then some admin person
47:30
Speaker 2: they had working for them is like, hey, you looked
47:32
Speaker 2: at me for for as.
47:35
Speaker 1: Yeah.
47:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, So so we are seeing changes we are is
47:40
Speaker 2: in fact, I want to applaud I have victims rights
47:43
Speaker 2: groups now who are contacting me because of these podcasts
47:45
Speaker 2: and they want to partner and they've seen false accusers.
47:49
Speaker 2: I have one she's very prominent, she gets paid to
47:52
Speaker 2: speak at events, she's very, very prominent in the community.
47:56
Speaker 2: She saw three of her colleagues falsely accused man in
48:00
Speaker 2: the military, and I asked her, I said, did you
48:02
Speaker 2: say anything? She said no, she put her head down.
48:04
Speaker 2: She's like, ar beside, you know what I knew they
48:07
Speaker 2: were doing it. I knew it was wrong, but I
48:09
Speaker 2: didn't have the courage to speak up. And and so
48:13
Speaker 2: they're they're coming out, and even the feminists, even the
48:16
Speaker 2: victims' advocates, are trying to partner to say, you're right.
48:19
Speaker 2: Is we want them to stop, We want to do
48:22
Speaker 2: to do more, and we feel we feel bad because
48:25
Speaker 2: we didn't we saw it, and it's crazy. And I
48:30
Speaker 2: have one female who was falsely accused that I worked
48:32
Speaker 2: with just just the one. Now her case was dropped,
48:35
Speaker 2: but there's still ramifications for her. It was an ex
48:38
Speaker 2: who got upset with her and and it looked surprised everybody.
48:43
Speaker 2: But but like I said, thousands of men and to
48:46
Speaker 2: date the one lady.
48:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, it generally usually is the man. But so like, uh,
48:56
Speaker 1: what what's next for you guys? What do you guys got?
49:00
Speaker 1: So what's next? On the books?
49:01
Speaker 2: Here? Here's what's next. Is what I'm starting to see
49:05
Speaker 2: is more military podcasters are coming forward. Is you asked
49:09
Speaker 2: about that courage? Is a lot of them are starting
49:13
Speaker 2: to have the courage to say, you know what enough
49:16
Speaker 2: And there's a video I have and I can share
49:19
Speaker 2: it with the audience if they want. Where there was
49:22
Speaker 2: a group they did focus groups on basis, and you
49:25
Speaker 2: had military members standing up saying, we're tired of the
49:28
Speaker 2: false accusations and we're tired of them not being punished.
49:32
Speaker 2: And so do you know what that group tried to
49:33
Speaker 2: do to pooh pooh their concerns away? They said, well,
49:37
Speaker 2: it's it's not really a false accusation. It's a training issue.
49:40
Speaker 2: And they went back and said, because these people are
49:43
Speaker 2: being told that the penetrated party can have one drink
49:48
Speaker 2: and not consent. So if you regret having sex and
49:51
Speaker 2: you had one drink, well then guess what now you
49:55
Speaker 2: can relieve your conscience. And so so now military podcasters
49:59
Speaker 2: are start to be more vocal, they're starting to come
50:01
Speaker 2: to us a little more. And so I think it's
50:05
Speaker 2: a different thing now that these insiders are saying it.
50:08
Speaker 2: They're having that courage because they've seen others do it,
50:11
Speaker 2: like yourself, like Paul Elam, who's amazing, Like Terrence Pop,
50:14
Speaker 2: who's incredible, who are representing men's rights issues, and it's
50:20
Speaker 2: people are like, wait a minute, these guys are telling
50:22
Speaker 2: the truth. These guys are actually educating. It's so we're
50:27
Speaker 2: starting to see momentum pick up and we're hopeful. But
50:30
Speaker 2: you're right, there's the embarrassment and then there's that voting
50:34
Speaker 2: population that people are here of. So so education is
50:38
Speaker 2: the way man. So you're doing great work. You've got
50:41
Speaker 2: amazing courage. We appreciate you for being out there, and
50:44
Speaker 2: we appreciate your audience for taking the time not only
50:47
Speaker 2: hear the message, but to tell somebody else about it.
50:50
Speaker 2: So that's incredible.
50:51
Speaker 1: Thank you, well, no, thank you so much for coming
50:55
Speaker 1: on the show and being like, you know, an advocate
50:58
Speaker 1: for this stuff. And look, I think that the more
51:01
Speaker 1: you talk about it, the more this gets out, even
51:03
Speaker 1: if it's you know, I think it's there's like this
51:06
Speaker 1: conversation is how I always seen it. It's like a conversation.
51:09
Speaker 1: It's been getting out into everywhere in its own way.
51:14
Speaker 1: Like sometimes you know, you may not like maybe somebody
51:16
Speaker 1: brings up in a way you don't like, but at
51:18
Speaker 1: least they're talking about it. And I think that ultimately
51:21
Speaker 1: what will have to happen is people will be sort
51:24
Speaker 1: of like forced to confront it, right Like, maybe they'll
51:28
Speaker 1: avoid it, like you said, the people who don't want
51:30
Speaker 1: to see. But eventually, when it looks like everyone else
51:33
Speaker 1: is seeing it. They're gonna be like, Okay, I'm gonna
51:35
Speaker 1: see what this is about, right, And I think that's
51:37
Speaker 1: when the courage will come too, because I think that
51:39
Speaker 1: sometimes for people it comes down to like, well, I
51:42
Speaker 1: don't feel like it's safe to bring this up. And
51:44
Speaker 1: then but they do feel that way, you know, like
51:47
Speaker 1: they just but they don't really know, like if they
51:50
Speaker 1: bring it up, it's gonna be harmful to them because
51:52
Speaker 1: it's a very unpopular opinion. So you just need those
51:55
Speaker 1: few people that are willing to say it, that are
51:57
Speaker 1: just like I got nothing to lose, fuck it, right,
51:59
Speaker 1: And after a while, then those people will start to say, Okay,
52:03
Speaker 1: I guess it's safe for me to say what I think,
52:05
Speaker 1: and then they'll come forward.
52:07
Speaker 2: So you're exactly right, Brian, and you'll appreciate this. I
52:11
Speaker 2: even had people from Canada reach out and they're what's
52:15
Speaker 2: happening and and and look, I'm gonna say this. Who
52:19
Speaker 2: nobody hates Canadians. Everybody loves Canadians, is what I thought.
52:23
Speaker 2: But you know, some of them are reached out and
52:25
Speaker 2: they're in that false accusation system too. But but I
52:28
Speaker 2: never heard it.
52:30
Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm Canada is worse. I'm I'm I'm almost
52:33
Speaker 1: positive Canada, the UK, Europe they're they're in worse shape
52:37
Speaker 1: in terms of like due process, like we have it
52:40
Speaker 1: at least on paper in the Constitution, but it doesn't
52:44
Speaker 1: pan out that way in a lot of case or
52:45
Speaker 1: at least there's a workaround, like oh, we won't throw
52:47
Speaker 1: you in jail, but will you'll lose your job, you'll
52:50
Speaker 1: lose you know, your money, you'll be living in a
52:52
Speaker 1: trailer or whatever. But in those countries, yeah, you'll you
52:56
Speaker 1: can go to jail for that that stuff like they
52:58
Speaker 1: they don't have. So yes, Canada's like we have a
53:01
Speaker 1: lady named Diana Davison, She's Canadian. She talks a lot
53:05
Speaker 1: about false accusations, not necessarily in the military, but across
53:09
Speaker 1: the board. And you know, she's a busy, busy woman.
53:13
Speaker 1: There's a lot of work. So yes, anyway, so as well,
53:19
Speaker 1: giving the chat one last chance to make any comments
53:22
Speaker 1: if you guys want to. But I feel like this
53:25
Speaker 1: has been a good conversation and it's good to see
53:29
Speaker 1: you again. Rvis. I'm good to see you doing well.
53:32
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, I don't think anything's coming through. So
53:34
Speaker 1: we're just gonna wrap it up there, But tell me
53:36
Speaker 1: a little bit about this website you sent me just
53:39
Speaker 1: now Teresa's tapestries. What does that have to do with
53:42
Speaker 1: the military. I just go ahead.
53:45
Speaker 2: She is active duty until like one September, I think
53:48
Speaker 2: she retires. But she's an active duty public affairs officer,
53:53
Speaker 2: so they're the ones who put out the message of
53:56
Speaker 2: the military. And she's a commander, she's an O five,
53:59
Speaker 2: so she's senior. So she had the courage to have
54:03
Speaker 2: me and several others on her podcast. And not only
54:06
Speaker 2: did she have us on our podcast, she looked at
54:09
Speaker 2: some of the evidence. She looked at all of the evidence.
54:12
Speaker 2: She took some of it and she put it on
54:14
Speaker 2: her site. And I'll give you an example that she said, hey, arbus,
54:19
Speaker 2: I had a jack military attorney reach out and she
54:24
Speaker 2: sent them the evidence and said look, and then they
54:27
Speaker 2: shut the hell up. And then she had some other people,
54:29
Speaker 2: some victims advocates come forward and they're like, what are
54:31
Speaker 2: you doing. You're a woman and she's the victim. She's
54:34
Speaker 2: a victim too, and her perpetrator was a woman, was
54:37
Speaker 2: another woman, And she shared that during the interview, and
54:40
Speaker 2: it surprised me because I didn't know that, and she's
54:43
Speaker 2: just showing them the evidence. And all they're doing is this.
54:47
Speaker 2: They're being quiet, is they're saying, ooh, you want me
54:52
Speaker 2: to look at true facts and evidence. I want to
54:55
Speaker 2: just hit you with my emotions because you're doing this.
54:57
Speaker 2: It's a betrayal of women. So we're so thankful for
55:00
Speaker 2: Teresa because she's had the courage to do several shows
55:03
Speaker 2: with us, as well as to put that out there.
55:07
Speaker 2: And people are looking and because it's coming from a woman,
55:10
Speaker 2: because it's coming from a senior active duty military officer,
55:14
Speaker 2: that they're like, oh, wow, we have another gentleman. His
55:18
Speaker 2: name is Daniel Irwin, active duty Army is he had
55:21
Speaker 2: the courage to do a show and all pandemonium broke
55:25
Speaker 2: out and he saw how many people came to him
55:29
Speaker 2: who are active to thank him and says thank you.
55:31
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Someone's saying this out loud, and it
55:34
Speaker 2: blew him away. And I told him, I said, look,
55:37
Speaker 2: your active duty. You know Teresa's getting ready to retire.
55:39
Speaker 2: He says, man, this needs to be told. So again,
55:42
Speaker 2: Teresa's tapestries has some of the evidence that your audience
55:48
Speaker 2: can see for themselves and there's more, but we don't
55:51
Speaker 2: want to overwhelm people. We want them to say, look,
55:54
Speaker 2: just don't believe us. We want an independent review to
55:57
Speaker 2: look at this. But once you do it, we want
56:00
Speaker 2: the false accusers, the judges, the prosecutors, investigators, the politicians
56:05
Speaker 2: all throughout that chain who did this to be punished,
56:08
Speaker 2: right once you see it. We want that big investigation.
56:11
Speaker 2: But look, we're willing to prove what we're saying.
56:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that, like I said, I do
56:17
Speaker 1: think that there is a shift, a change in the winds,
56:22
Speaker 1: as they say, because I'm seeing like that, not only
56:26
Speaker 1: are there tabling discussions about you know, due process, not
56:31
Speaker 1: just in the military but in general, but they're also
56:33
Speaker 1: doing talking about punishments for false accusations like provable, like
56:38
Speaker 1: if you can prove that it was false and not
56:40
Speaker 1: just incorrect or whatever, right, and that, Yeah, I think
56:44
Speaker 1: there was one of the Southern states is doing that.
56:47
Speaker 1: And of course, you know, advocates groups are losing their minds,
56:50
Speaker 1: but I think it's I think it's absolutely crucial because
56:54
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sorry, but we we have to you know,
56:56
Speaker 1: we have to be adults here, and what's right is right.
56:59
Speaker 1: It's not even about quality is about justice, so uh yeah.
57:03
Speaker 1: So anyway, with that said, I'm gonna end the show here.
57:05
Speaker 1: Thank you Harvist so much for coming on, and thank
57:09
Speaker 1: you guys for joining us. If you guys like this video.
57:11
Speaker 1: Oh and by the way, links to all of your
57:14
Speaker 1: things are in the description. The various websites you got up,
57:18
Speaker 1: like your your X account, which I don't know why
57:21
Speaker 1: I'm not following you on X. I gotta get on that.
57:23
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm not.
57:24
Speaker 2: I got restricted on X really, but but Elon's not
57:32
Speaker 2: loving him some harvest these days, and so I do
57:34
Speaker 2: what I can, though, I do what I can.
57:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah yeah, And would you dot care and the
57:42
Speaker 1: the websites change dot org your Yahoo email, so if
57:46
Speaker 1: you guys want to send him a message, he's very
57:48
Speaker 1: good about replying to those things. And uh yeah, thank
57:51
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on the show, and thank
57:53
Speaker 1: you guys for watching. If you guys like this video,
57:55
Speaker 1: please hit like, subscribe, I can already subscribe to the bellfidifications.
57:58
Speaker 1: Leave us a comment, let us know what you guys think
58:00
Speaker 1: about what we discussed on the show today, and please
58:02
Speaker 1: please please share this video because sharing is caring. Thank
58:06
Speaker 1: you guys so much for coming on today's episode of
58:07
Speaker 1: the Fireside Chat, and we'll talk to you guys in
58:10
Speaker 1: the next one.
58:11
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me