Latest / The Dr Louise Newson Podcast / 22 - Distracted: Jack Suddaby on being diagnosed with ADHD as an adult

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22 - Distracted: Jack Suddaby on being diagnosed with ADHD as an adult · The Dr Louise Newson Podcast

• 0:00
  So today on my podcast I've got Jack Sotheby who is founder of
• 0:04
  Podcast House and also runs Distracted Podcast.
• 0:08
  We talk about ADHD, what it's like to have ADHD, how it could
• 0:13
  be diagnosed and how we can manage it.
• 0:15
  And we also talk quite a lot about the brain and how it
• 0:18
  works. All works differently for
• 0:20
  certain people. It's a great conversation and I
• 0:23
  hope you learn a lot from it. So Jack, I am in your sitting
• 0:30
  room. This is your.
• 0:30
  Studio I know. And I love it.
• 0:33
  It's it's just such a sanctuary. It's great.
• 0:35
  Now, I've been on lots of other people's podcasts, including
• 0:38
  yours, talking about ADHD, but it's something I was never
• 0:42
  taught about at medical school. We hear it, my children talk
• 0:46
  about it, patients talk about it.
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  When people say I've got ADHD, you can see other people looking
• 0:52
  is what is it, what's going on? And I, I just thought it'd be
• 0:55
  really useful just to unpick it. Like what is it?
• 1:00
  Is everyone with ADHD the same? Do they all need treatment?
• 1:03
  Like there's so much. I just thought I'll ask you.
• 1:05
  But before I launch into too many questions, just tell us a
• 1:09
  bit about your back still. I found out at ADHD like a
• 1:12
  couple of years ago. I've, I was in a relationship
• 1:16
  and it was like the first time that myself was fully reflected
• 1:21
  back. I saw not just the good bits,
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  the bad bits as well. And I was like, why am I not
• 1:26
  listening all the time? And like, why am I getting
• 1:29
  distracting showing up late and all of these bits?
• 1:31
  And suddenly I had someone who was actually getting annoyed by
• 1:34
  it instead of just my family or whatever, you know, where I just
• 1:36
  like, oh, whatever. And so I was like, it was over
• 1:39
  lockdown and it was sort of an explosion of like mental health,
• 1:43
  especially ADHD. And so I was like, oh, maybe
• 1:48
  it's this, maybe I can pin it to this.
• 1:50
  And I did, I was in the barbers and I did like an online test
• 1:53
  and it was just through the roof.
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  And I did it again with my mom and she found it hilarious
• 1:58
  because it was basically just taking off.
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  Every question was like designed for me.
• 2:02
  And then I did the test, went privately, did the test and got
• 2:07
  ADHD and then became since then I just sort of had this 1st for
• 2:11
  wanting to know more about it. A year or so ago I started a
• 2:15
  podcast called Distracted where we get on a bunch of guests and
• 2:18
  talk about all things ADHD and. People are talking about it
• 2:23
  more, aren't they? But you know, when I was at
• 2:26
  medical school many years ago in the 80s and early 90s, there was
• 2:29
  a little bit about ADHD. It was always naughty boys that
• 2:32
  can sit still but it was always boys not not men and it was it
• 2:37
  was if they ate too many sweets or you know.
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  Well, you're 4 times more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD if
• 2:42
  you're a bloke. Yeah, but you're just as likely
• 2:44
  to have ADHD if you're a woman. Yeah, because part, you know,
• 2:48
  50% chance of getting it from your parents.
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  So it's just boys are hyperactive, we're loud and it
• 2:54
  gets spotted at school because it's more problematic in the
• 2:57
  classroom. Whereas a woman it a girl, it
• 3:00
  typically comes out as masking or it's in your head and
• 3:04
  anxiety. It sounds like a lot of a lot
• 3:07
  worse deal in many respects because it's all internal.
• 3:10
  You've got that hyperactivity, but it's it's inside your head.
• 3:13
  Yeah, and then you can't see it. Yeah, so no one knows and and
• 3:17
  you don't even know. It's so foundational they and,
• 3:20
  and because you're masking so much, you're getting treated for
• 3:24
  anxiety or depression, you'll be much more likely to have all of
• 3:27
  these things if you've got ADHD as well.
• 3:30
  And, and so you're getting treated for these symptoms when
• 3:33
  actually sometimes it's, you've got to sort the ADHD and, or
• 3:36
  even just understand it because that's, that's basically the,
• 3:39
  the big take away that I've had over the last few years.
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  A from being diagnosed, but also from starting the podcast is a
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  lot of it, it really goes back to shame.
• 3:49
  And like feeling shame for these these bad qualities and just
• 3:54
  recognizing that you have it and understanding it goes so far to,
• 3:58
  yeah, stopping yourself from feeling so guilty or rubbish
• 4:01
  about yourself and not being great at, you know, doing the
• 4:04
  bloody washing or whatever. It, but it is.
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  It's the guilt, isn't it? And I think it's the lack of
• 4:09
  self belief that there is something that's not quite
• 4:13
  right, but what is right anyway. That's a whole different
• 4:16
  conversation. But it's, you know, in medicine
• 4:18
  I was always taught you listen to the patient, you understand
• 4:21
  them, you try and help them. And then you might make a
• 4:25
  diagnosis and treatment is really at the bottom.
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  And if you look at complaints for doctors, the most common
• 4:32
  complaint is not being listened to, not being believed.
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  And I see this a lot, obviously in my work with hormones.
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  But people who've had ADHD for many years, don't you say
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  they've been gas lit really. They've been told they've got
• 4:44
  anxiety, depression, which they might have, but they're worried
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  because they're always late, they're letting down their
• 4:50
  friends, they're not putting the washing on or whatever.
• 4:53
  But once they realise what's going on, it's it's quite a
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  relief for people, isn't? It yeah, a lot of people that
• 4:59
  come on the podcast say that they almost grieve their past
• 5:03
  life because it for all those years where they've blamed
• 5:07
  themselves or knocked themselves or just masked pretended to be
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  someone they're not in so many different environments.
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  It really weighs heavy. It's like putting on lots of
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  different cloaks. You put so many on it, really,
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  you know, it can feel a lot, but.
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  There is this thing they're trying to conform, isn't there?
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  That, you know, a school is really difficult for people, a
• 5:27
  lot of people for all sorts of reasons, whether you know,
• 5:30
  physically or mentally or often both, because they're trying to
• 5:33
  conform, aren't they? And it's a very tip box.
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  But even out in society, people expect people to behave in
• 5:39
  certain ways or do certain things.
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  But I'm very interested in the brain.
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  I'm really, really interested in neurophysiology, neuroanatomy,
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  neuropharmacology, neuropathology.
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  So everything related to the brain, when it works well and
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  when it doesn't work well, and all these amazing
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  neurotransmitters, these chemicals and hormones that work
• 6:00
  in our brain. So we we still don't know much
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  really about ADHD in a very molecular way, do we?
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  What from what we know, really it's about a lack of dopamine in
• 6:11
  the brain. And it's not really a lack.
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  It's more just we we don't, we're not managing it well.
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  We're effectively searching for more dopamine that makes us more
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  impulsive. We can't stay focused as much.
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  That's what a lot of the medication does it like Ritalin
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  it, it gives you more dopamine so you have a base level so
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  you're not constantly task switching or.
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  But dopamine is a reward hormone, isn't it really?
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  It's that, you know, when people do something pleasurable, they
• 6:41
  feel good about it. But if you don't have that, you
• 6:44
  don't feel quite as good doing the same thing that you've done
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  before. But there's also, you don't want
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  too much dopamine either. It's the, the, the
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  neurotransmitters. It's a fine balance.
• 6:54
  It's like a seesaw, isn't it? Yeah, but they also dopamine
• 6:58
  changing will have an effect on neurodrenaline or cortisol or
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  serotonin, all the other hormones and neurotransmitters
• 7:06
  in the brain. It's amazing how closely they
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  all work. Yeah.
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  I mean, for me, it's like, I love it.
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  I actually like the imbalance. I mean, sometimes it's not
• 7:16
  great, but I can hyper focus on something when I find something
• 7:19
  I love. And I'm lucky enough to, you
• 7:21
  know, do podcasting and run this space.
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  So I get to do what I want to do all the time.
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  And so I, I find it much easier to fall into that hyper focus
• 7:30
  state where I can just go in for 6-7 hours and get so much done
• 7:35
  and it feels amazing. So I'm lucky because I, I
• 7:39
  figured out what I liked very early on.
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  But for some people, I mean, I got fired from 4 jobs.
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  Did you before? Yeah, I was constantly getting
• 7:46
  fired because I was just, if I wasn't didn't like it, I was
• 7:49
  rubbish. I was really not engaged,
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  scatty, not turning up on time, just all of the, the classics.
• 7:56
  And I used to think I remember when I was like 1918, I was
• 7:59
  like, why am I always getting fired?
• 8:00
  Is this normal? Does everyone get and then, you
• 8:03
  know, kept doing podcasting was like, oh, I'm not getting fired
• 8:06
  from this. Maybe this is what?
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  I want. To do.
• 8:09
  Yeah. And I do think it's also like a
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  bit of a misnomer because it's attention deficit hyperactivity
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  disorder, Yeah, which is quite a long.
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  Like, what does that really mean?
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  But you've already said that you've got ADHD, but you don't
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  really have an attention deficit if it's something you're
• 8:25
  enjoying. Yeah.
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  So that makes it really confusing for people, doesn't
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  it? Just.
• 8:29
  Those words, we need to almost update, update it.
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  It's so broad as well. It's such a broad.
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  We could start making subcategories.
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  It's like having a like a a category called action or just
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  like horror. You know you can you we can
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  start making the sub categories now and I think it would help
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  people. As a doctor, I only want to make
• 8:50
  a diagnosis if it's going to change treatment or outcomes for
• 8:54
  a person. And like you say, for lots of
• 8:56
  people, knowledge is such a power and that having that
• 8:59
  knowledge is really important. But our brains are changing all
• 9:03
  the time. They're evolving and they they
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  change depending on what we eat, what our lifestyle is, what our
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  sleep is, what our social interaction.
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  Everything is changing. So I sort of sometimes worry a
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  bit for two reasons. Firstly, there is a lot of money
• 9:18
  to be made with ADHD at the minute, but there's also the
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  medicalisation side that you've already said the red drugs.
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  And you know, I'm a, I'm a medical doctor.
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  I prescribe all sorts of drugs and drugs can be very important
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  for the right person for the right reasons.
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  And often drugs we give short term, not always long term.
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  And I worry about medicalising too many people.
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  Is it good that people are just being labeled without really
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  understanding the brain and how it changes?
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  And you might think you're fine as a woman, and then suddenly
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  your hormones change and that's gonna play havocs to your ADHD.
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  And who's helping people with that, you know?
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  Yeah, I think everyone, This is why it's, I got so popular on
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  TikTok and Instagrams because everyone can relate to all the
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  symptoms. Everyone's turned up late for
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  stuff and everyone's not bothered by things they don't
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  like. Like, yeah, it's when it's it's
• 10:10
  a disorder, Yeah. When it's actually impacting
• 10:12
  your life to the point where it's disrupting it, yes.
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  I think for me, getting the diagnosis was really to tell
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  other people that I had it with certainty, almost.
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  I knew I had it in my bones. And everyone else I've spoken to
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  who hasn't had the diagnosis, who also really feels it, they,
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  they just know you don't have to get sort of.
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  And for my, for me anyway, it felt like just sort of a
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  stranger over a zoom call for 60 minutes, less probably 45.
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  He asked me a bunch of questions, which was
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  effectively, do you have ADHD or not?
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  And then at the end of it, they were like, right, great.
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  Do you want, do you want the drugs then?
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  And it did feel like it was funneling me to just take the
• 10:51
  drugs instead of like, OK, how do we set up a a system where
• 10:55
  you can better help yourself in these areas where you're
• 10:59
  struggling instead of just like, here's some meds.
• 11:02
  Yeah. And, and look, that was my
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  experience. And that was the one, the one,
• 11:06
  the private place I went to. Yeah.
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  And so it's all going to be different depending where you go
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  and. Absolutely.
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  And for some people, you know, they have the most amazing
• 11:16
  experience. But I, I also feel in medicine
• 11:18
  things are really siloed more than they were.
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  You know, I had a very general training.
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  My psychiatry training was very general.
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  My medicine training was very general.
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  But now everyone is special, specialized in psychiatry.
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  You have people that only deal with ADHD or only deal with
• 11:33
  schizophrenia or whatever. But it's almost like having
• 11:36
  physio for one part of you instead of having an osteopath
• 11:39
  to look at the whole picture. Absolutely.
• 11:41
  Yeah, yeah. It's like if you know you've had
• 11:42
  a heart attack and not, not look at your blood pressure and not
• 11:45
  look at, you know, your nutrition and everything else as
• 11:48
  well, it just feels really in Congress with how medical
• 11:51
  training should be. And I think also what you want
• 11:55
  to do is be able to have this longer term relationship with
• 11:58
  people as well. So they really understand.
• 12:00
  And, you know, my oldest daughter's always late and she
• 12:03
  drives us mad. And she's always just lost her
• 12:05
  keys. And it's yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:06
  But when she said, oh, I've read or seen on TikTok that people
• 12:10
  ADHD are more likely to be late. They're less likely to unload
• 12:12
  the washing machine or whatever. It's like, oh OK, that's made
• 12:15
  her feel less bad, if you see what I mean.
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  Also, what it does is when you kind of accept it, you're like,
• 12:22
  right, OK, I've got these things.
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  I'm not, I'm, I can't just fix myself like I'm just going to be
• 12:29
  better at like keeping my keys and my you just got.
• 12:31
  No, no, I'm actually, I'm going to be bad at doing that probably
• 12:34
  forever. So let's set up some sort of
• 12:36
  system. So I have like a really bright
• 12:39
  phone case that's red with a zip pocket to put my keys in so I
• 12:44
  can call my keys if I ever lose them, you know, so I, I always
• 12:48
  have every like really basic baby stuff, but it's helps and
• 12:52
  it and it stops you from going, Oh, I'm just, I'm just like
• 12:56
  this. I need to, you know, it cuts out
• 12:58
  that noise and. That it is the noise and life is
• 13:02
  really busy anyway. And then if you've got people
• 13:04
  that don't understand and then are blaming you the whole time.
• 13:07
  But I do worry if people don't get this holistic care.
• 13:11
  It's a very different way your brain works.
• 13:13
  And I find it so interesting the brain, how it's it we can
• 13:17
  remould it, we can we rewire it, we can get all this new, you
• 13:20
  know, changes in the brain. You know, the brain can grow and
• 13:25
  develop all the time, and these new neural pathways can can.
• 13:29
  It's like a tree. Do you know what I mean?
• 13:31
  Right. So if you it's like building up
• 13:33
  habits, basically when you start building up a habit of or always
• 13:36
  keeping my key in my right pocket.
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  It's Taus. It's that muscle memory.
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  You know, the more you like you do a yoga practice.
• 13:42
  It's just a second nature, isn't it?
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  That or or whatever. Yeah, and it and it is this when
• 13:46
  I was learned at Tauset medical school, the brain like moulds
• 13:49
  and and develops and then as a teenager and then it settles
• 13:52
  down and then the brain cells just die with time, right.
• 13:54
  But it's it's not. We're constantly getting new
• 13:57
  brain cells, these new, it's like, but you want to prune
• 13:59
  those branches and then just get the tree to grow better so you
• 14:03
  can. Still grow through your whole
• 14:04
  life. Throughout your whole life, it's
• 14:06
  really important and we've got these sort of these growth
• 14:10
  factors these in in the brain and they can change according to
• 14:15
  the environment. So if you have a very
• 14:17
  inflammatory diet, you have more inflammation, you're going to
• 14:20
  have less growth factors. So your tree will not be more
• 14:23
  like weeds. Whereas if you have an
• 14:26
  anti-inflammatory diet, you know, you eat better, you
• 14:29
  exercise, hormones can stimulate these these growth factors as
• 14:33
  well. Then you can see if your brain
• 14:36
  is more organised, the cells work better and that helps with
• 14:40
  all your sort of brain memory and everything else as well.
• 14:43
  So. But you can feel it after you
• 14:45
  just have a healthy meal. Course you can.
• 14:46
  You just feel, yeah, like more alive.
• 14:48
  I had a pizza last night because I came home late and this, this
• 14:52
  whole morning I've been feeling like sluggish and weird.
• 14:54
  And that's just a like a micro example.
• 14:57
  Yeah, but you can see that. But if you're not getting help
• 14:59
  and a lot of people with ADHD won't get help and then they
• 15:04
  might turn to drugs and then they're drinking more alcohol
• 15:07
  and then they're eating worse. And then everything feels well.
• 15:10
  And it's this sort of spiral. And then your brain is like, Oh
• 15:12
  my God, chaos, chaos. And that's where I feel like
• 15:16
  going back to the basics is really important so we can
• 15:20
  understand. And of course, you know, if
• 15:23
  you've just had an argument with your partner and I, of course
• 15:25
  I'm going to eat worse. So my diet was a lot worse then
• 15:27
  I wasn't doing yoga every morning because I had the
• 15:30
  children's, you know, And so it's this downward spiral.
• 15:33
  But I think the conversation is great, isn't it?
• 15:35
  People must be learning, you know, from, from your podcast.
• 15:39
  But there's there's so much more out there, isn't there for
• 15:42
  people to understand. Especially for women, I think as
• 15:44
  well, it's really exploding. I mean, probably across the
• 15:48
  whole health industry, it's exploding for women.
• 15:51
  My girlfriend is an osteopath and she's constantly like, is
• 15:53
  this right? Is this right?
• 15:55
  Because it's, there's so much new information all the time
• 15:58
  now. But for ADHD, especially women,
• 16:00
  like we said, it's it's less diagnosed and there's way less
• 16:03
  tests on women. So yeah, it's kind of like a
• 16:07
  revolution. And the more conversation, the
• 16:09
  better. You know, this, everyone always
• 16:10
  says, oh, everyone's ADHD now. And I just think it's so silly.
• 16:14
  Why would you not want to empower people and give them an
• 16:17
  opportunity to learn about themselves?
• 16:19
  I think it's also, it is can be a superpower for lots of people
• 16:22
  if they find the right, right, right.
• 16:26
  Well, career, job, you know, just just lifestyle, everything
• 16:29
  else as well. And I think it's similar in some
• 16:32
  ways to dyslexia. My middle daughter was
• 16:34
  diagnosed. I knew she was, but she was
• 16:36
  diagnosed with dyslexia. And actually that just meant she
• 16:38
  had extra time in exams, took the pressure off.
• 16:41
  I mean, she can explain to people and she's got a very
• 16:43
  visual mind, you know, very visual.
• 16:45
  And it's, it's in some ways she doesn't need treatment, but it
• 16:49
  explains to people. And I think it's, it's all about
• 16:52
  explaining to people what it means.
• 16:54
  And I think we're sort of getting there with ADHD, but
• 16:57
  people still don't quite because of the disorder bit it sounds
• 17:00
  almost is it a disease? And I think that's where people
• 17:04
  can be misjudged, actually. Interesting.
• 17:06
  I would say it's, I would say actually for younger
• 17:09
  generations, it's a different conversation.
• 17:12
  Yeah. I think it's more kind of
• 17:14
  accepted in younger generations now, especially like 20s seven
• 17:19
  below. Yeah, I feel like it's kind of
• 17:21
  OK, We get it. That's great because I feel I
• 17:24
  see a lot of women in their 40s who have been diagnosed.
• 17:29
  Often it's symptoms have got worse because their hormones
• 17:31
  have changed. And they then say I wish I'd
• 17:34
  known this 20 years ago. I wish that that now I've
• 17:39
  understand how I've behaved and how things have been, and
• 17:43
  especially this hormonal variation.
• 17:45
  Yeah. I mean, you, you mentioned PM,
• 17:46
  sorry to cut you off. You mentioned PMDD.
• 17:49
  Yeah. I mean, from the studies I've
• 17:51
  seen, it affects about 4% of women.
• 17:54
  And but with ADH, well, it's probably many undiagnosed, but
• 17:58
  with ADHD, it's 40%. Yeah, so you're far more likely
• 18:02
  to get it with ADHD. And imagine not knowing you had
• 18:05
  ADHD and just having these extreme sort of hormonal changes
• 18:10
  every month and then realizing you have it in your 50s,
• 18:13
  sixties, going through menopause.
• 18:14
  It's really scary. I was talking to someone
• 18:16
  yesterday who just listened to one of my podcasts and he's
• 18:21
  remarried, he's divorced. I knew that, but then he said
• 18:25
  that's why we had such a bad time.
• 18:27
  I had no idea because it was once a month, a few days.
• 18:32
  Behaviour was awful, drinking was awful and just shouting was
• 18:35
  terrible. Self total self sabotage.
• 18:38
  It is and the self sabotage is really common actually, isn't
• 18:42
  it? People want to look after
• 18:43
  themselves, but it's almost you have this can have this downward
• 18:45
  spiral as well. It's.
• 18:46
  Weird, I I get it sometimes like it's almost for me.
• 18:50
  It's like when it when it passes a point, I I just like if my
• 18:54
  room gets past a point of messiness, I just completely
• 18:58
  sacrificed the room. I'm, I'm not, I don't, it's done
• 19:01
  now. It's nothing.
• 19:02
  Because my daughter is. Like that and my I was, I
• 19:04
  cleaned it up the other week and I've managed to maintain it.
• 19:08
  It's fine because it's like, well, it's clean now.
• 19:10
  I can keep it clean. But it's a it's a weird
• 19:13
  psychological like point that you can't break otherwise it
• 19:16
  goes into chaos. But that's where you need other
• 19:18
  people to help you. Yeah, it's, it's interesting
• 19:20
  because my two daughters are living together at the minute.
• 19:23
  One's incredibly tidy. And the other one likes it to be
• 19:26
  tidy, but she's quite messy. And it was just interesting.
• 19:29
  One of them was saying to the other, when you've eaten, see
• 19:33
  putting the plate in the dishwasher as an extension of
• 19:35
  your meal. And Jessica was like, oh, no, I
• 19:37
  see it as something different. I see it as I eat and then I
• 19:41
  clear up later. She said, no, no, no, you can't
• 19:42
  do that. I can't live with you if you do
• 19:44
  that because I can't have the The Dirty plates on the side.
• 19:47
  So Jessica was then like, oh, I get that.
• 19:49
  OK, I'm going to do that. It's it's very simple.
• 19:51
  It's just interesting. But that's where the brain I
• 19:54
  think is, it's so magical because it can be changed, but I
• 19:58
  think the way it can be changed and other influences of so
• 20:02
  important people to understand. And I know I help on a lot about
• 20:05
  hormones, but obviously you've got the beneficial hormones that
• 20:07
  we give to people, but then you've also got contraception.
• 20:10
  I know we've spoken about this before, these synthetic hormones
• 20:13
  that are blocking our natural hormones working.
• 20:16
  So although people don't get this variation.
• 20:19
  They often then find things very difficult, their mood can go
• 20:22
  down, their concentration can be less good, they can be less
• 20:26
  motivated, and if they're also then on drugs for ADHD, you've
• 20:30
  got a double whammy actually. Yeah, I hadn't thought about
• 20:34
  that. Do you prescribe hormones to men
• 20:37
  as well? I don't, but I'm very interested
• 20:39
  in hormones to men. I often diagnosed because
• 20:41
  actually testosterone is a male and a female hormone.
• 20:45
  But a lot of I'm in a in a group with a lot of doctors who do
• 20:49
  specialized in ADHD and men as well as women.
• 20:53
  And like I do with women, they notice with men testosterone is
• 20:56
  makes a massive difference. It's very sort of coming on the
• 20:59
  brain. It makes it very a lot easier to
• 21:01
  think when people take testosterone as well.
• 21:04
  And testosterone is made in the brain.
• 21:06
  It's a really important neurosteroid and and when you've
• 21:10
  got good levels of testosterone, you're going to have better
• 21:12
  levels of dopamine, serotonin and everything else as.
• 21:15
  Well, is that why I feel so sharp like after a gym session?
• 21:19
  Because I would have produced so.
• 21:20
  Much. Yeah, probably because your
• 21:21
  muscles produce testosterone as well.
• 21:23
  And that's why exercising is really important because our
• 21:26
  muscles and our bones are metabolically active.
• 21:29
  You know those hormones going, the blood going to the brain
• 21:31
  massive and that you know, you get this endorphin hits as well,
• 21:35
  don't you? Oh yeah, I mean, I think
• 21:37
  exercise, it's like such an obvious one, but for people with
• 21:40
  ADHD specifically, it's like huge it's.
• 21:44
  Huge. Yeah, just to get that
• 21:46
  hyperactivity out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just.
• 21:49
  To get it out and I just feel, I just feel like I can focus
• 21:52
  better after doing. Some exercise, you know, if we
• 21:57
  could prescribe it, it would be the best drug ever.
• 21:59
  Yeah, like it, but it's just underrated.
• 22:01
  But it's so important. It's like 1 of it's like one of
• 22:04
  the most important things anyone, everyone needs to do it.
• 22:07
  Like if you can, you need to be. Able to do something doing
• 22:10
  exercise. It's sort of hard to ask people
• 22:12
  to do it because it's seen as a bit offensive I think.
• 22:15
  Yeah, but we need to do it more. Yeah, so it's not so much we
• 22:19
  need to just know more, understand more, but I'm really
• 22:22
  grateful that you've been so open.
• 22:23
  And I think just get people to think differently hopefully, and
• 22:26
  think about the brain, think about how we need to look after
• 22:28
  our brain. But three take home tips.
• 22:31
  So no question, you know, it's coming.
• 22:35
  So if someone's thinking they might have ADHD and they're just
• 22:40
  a bit confused, what are the three simple things that you
• 22:42
  would say? You can just take an online test
• 22:46
  which is like a nice gateway into something external going.
• 22:50
  Yes, yes, yes. It takes like 10 minutes.
• 22:54
  I did a bunch of different ones and the questions are similar
• 22:57
  but that can really help. Also, just if you're watching
• 23:02
  videos on social media, follow a few like ADHD related pages and
• 23:08
  if it really feels like it's connecting with you, there's a
• 23:11
  reason for that. There's probably a reason for
• 23:14
  that. When I, when I first found out
• 23:16
  and I saw content online, God, I just went obsessive.
• 23:21
  I was watching so much because it was so Lafartic, Lafartic,
• 23:24
  Lafartic, cathartic, cathartic. I just felt so heard and there
• 23:30
  was a community there which was similar to me.
• 23:33
  And again, it was like that first step in removing the
• 23:36
  shame. So that's what I'd say.
• 23:39
  Binge social stuff and do some online tests and speak to family
• 23:43
  and friends because it it then it doesn't feel like a big thing
• 23:45
  in your head. Absolutely.
• 23:47
  You'll also find probably that if you've got ADHD, some of your
• 23:50
  mates will as well you you tend to attract each other.
• 23:53
  Yeah, so sharing is most important and sharing knowledge
• 23:56
  as well, which is great. So.
• 23:57
  Oh, thanks Jack. It's been great.
• 23:59
  It's O'Neal.