Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: Tova Noel’s Account of the Morning Jeffrey Epstein Died (Part 14-16) (5/21/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Tova Noel’s Account of the Morning Jeffrey Epstein Died (Part 14-16) (5/21/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right
• 0:06
  back in to the Tovin Noel interview with the OIG Inspectors. Question.
• 0:11
  All right, so during your time in the shoe, which
• 0:14
  I think was from around June twenty fourth, twenty nineteen,
• 0:17
  through August tenth, was it on many of those days
• 0:21
  that you were working in the shoe this is how
• 0:23
  it was done? Noel, yes. Question. Where the rounds weren't
• 0:27
  conducted and they weren't pre populated or populated at the end, Noel,
• 0:32
  yes question. And it was never spoken of, Noel, no question.
• 0:36
  And you never asked, Hey, why are you, you know,
• 0:39
  certifying that we're conducting rounds that were not actually conducting? Noel.
• 0:43
  I never asked question, never asked Noel, no question. And
• 0:48
  they never told you to do that though, Noel, who question?
• 0:52
  No one ever told you that this is the way
• 0:54
  that it's done. Noel. I mean, that's the way that
• 0:57
  I've seen them do it. But no one else if
• 1:00
  her she gets caught off, you observed it. You saw
• 1:02
  that people did it, Noel, because I never asked, so
• 1:05
  nobody ever told me. But that's just what I saw. Question.
• 1:08
  So on August ninth, you believe that that's the first
• 1:11
  time you filled the sheet out. No one actually directed
• 1:14
  you or instructed you. That's how we do it. You
• 1:17
  just saw people do it that way, Noel. Right. Question
• 1:21
  all right, And this goes back to I understand your
• 1:23
  attorney did say that you know now that it was
• 1:27
  wrong Noel. Yeah. Question, But at the time, you thought
• 1:31
  it was okay to certify times that you know, you
• 1:34
  conducted rounds when they weren't conducted, Noel, because that's the
• 1:38
  culture of it there. I didn't consider it as being
• 1:42
  like I'm falsifying the time or a document no I didn't. Question.
• 1:47
  Is this something that's addressed in training and policy? Hey,
• 1:50
  when you conduct around, it's documented at the time you
• 1:53
  conducted it, Noel. No question. So it's not in the
• 1:56
  policy that I provided for you. Noel. I don't know
• 1:59
  if it's in the policy. But in training you're just
• 2:02
  told to conduct rounds and counts. Question and document it
• 2:06
  at the time it's being counted, Noel, and document it. Question. Right.
• 2:12
  So it's a cultural it's a cultural falsification of records,
• 2:16
  Miss Noel in mcc yes, like the lieutenant told me
• 2:20
  to sign I did shoe training, and I didn't question. Absolutely,
• 2:24
  there's a lot of it, Yeah, Noel, Yeah. Question. So
• 2:27
  my point being is it sounds like this is a
• 2:30
  cultural problem. Noel. Yes, question, But you have to as
• 2:34
  a person who received a college degree, a person that
• 2:37
  went to you know, standard conducted ethics training, you have
• 2:41
  to know and look, I understand other people are doing
• 2:44
  it and you're saying I'm going to do what they're doing,
• 2:47
  but you have to know. You have to question, like, hey,
• 2:50
  I didn't conduct this training. I didn't conduct those rounds,
• 2:53
  so you had to know that you shouldn't have done it, Noel.
• 2:57
  But she gets cut off. You're saying that you're doing
• 3:00
  it because that's how other people are doing it, but
• 3:02
  you're all doing it wrong, correct, Noel. But in a
• 3:06
  case like this, who am I telling? Because she gets
• 3:09
  cut off? I'm not asking you to tell anybody, Noel. No, no, No.
• 3:13
  When I say telling, I'm like, it's okay. I understand
• 3:17
  you're saying that I know that it's wrong, but I'm saying, like, okay,
• 3:22
  Like how the lieutenant, like, when you said to me,
• 3:24
  does she know that I didn't do the training, and
• 3:27
  I said, yes, she knows that, but she still told
• 3:30
  me to sign that question absolutely Noel. So again, I'm
• 3:35
  not going to think like I said, I'm not thinking
• 3:38
  of this as like I'm falsifying a document. It's just
• 3:41
  the culture of MCC and I just followed I'm new.
• 3:44
  I don't know. I just learn or lean on the
• 3:47
  senior officer or the people that I'm working with to
• 3:51
  do what they do. Question okay, Noel, or to guide me.
• 3:55
  Question Let's ask it this way. Did you know that
• 3:58
  you were supposed to conduct round every thirty minutes? Noel? Yes? Question. Yes.
• 4:04
  Did you know that those rounds that are supposed to
• 4:06
  be conducted every thirty minutes are supposed to be documented
• 4:09
  on the sheet? Noel, yes. Question. And they're supposed to
• 4:13
  be documented on the time that you conducted those rounds.
• 4:16
  Noel know, because nobody documents it on the time. Question.
• 4:20
  I understand that that's why you did it. But do
• 4:23
  you understand that in training every thirty minutes, and they're
• 4:27
  supposed to not as it's corrected, they're not supposed to
• 4:31
  be on the exact dot thirty minutes. You're supposed to
• 4:34
  do it within like a thirty to forty minute window. Correct,
• 4:37
  So that's not a regular occurrence Noel, Yes, irregular rounds. Question,
• 4:42
  irregular rounds correct, So you know that you're supposed to
• 4:45
  do them every thirty to forty minutes Noel, yes. Question
• 4:49
  two rounds an hour, and those rounds are supposed to
• 4:52
  be documented, Noel, Yes. Question on that sheet? Noel, on
• 4:57
  that sheet. Question So obviously that leads to the training
• 5:01
  of they're supposed to be documented when you conduct the rounds.
• 5:05
  Correct Noel. Okay, question, So I do understand that you're
• 5:10
  not doing it because other people that you just mentioned
• 5:12
  did it that way as well. You have to know
• 5:16
  that you were supposed to do it the way I
• 5:17
  just explained. Correct, Noel, I know now. Question. Well, you
• 5:22
  had to know then too, because it's like you're supposed
• 5:24
  to do a thirty minute round and you've got a
• 5:26
  document when you did the thirty minute round, correct, Noel.
• 5:30
  I never seen anybody do that that I've worked with. Question.
• 5:34
  So you never saw redacted or redacted do it that way? Noel?
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  So like when she gets caught off and hey, if
• 5:41
  everybody's doing it wrong, obviously that's a huge problem. Noel. No,
• 5:45
  but what I'm saying is like I'm not next to them, Like, okay,
• 5:49
  let's say, if they're doing the sign and sheet, I'm not.
• 5:52
  That's why, like how you're saying redacted, Like if redacted
• 5:56
  is turning a sign in sheet, I don't necessarily have
• 5:59
  to be next to them. I can only tell you
• 6:02
  that the people that I've seen do. I don't know,
• 6:04
  like I can't speak for everybody on this question, right,
• 6:08
  But what I'm saying is, you know that you need
• 6:11
  to conduct thirty minute rounds. You know that those rounds
• 6:13
  need to be documented. You know those rounds need to
• 6:17
  be documented on that sheet. Correct, Noel, correct question. Therefore,
• 6:23
  you know that what you were doing was false? Correct Noel,
• 6:27
  as in putting in the time and the time that
• 6:29
  I conducted the round, and I didn't do that at time.
• 6:32
  See again question. So you knew it that what you
• 6:36
  were writing in there wasn't true and accurate as you
• 6:39
  wrote it. Correct, Noel, correct question. And the reason you
• 6:43
  did it was because the people that you observed in
• 6:46
  there before did it that way, Noel, correct question. Is
• 6:50
  that correct? I think that's how defies us any question.
• 6:54
  So you knew what was wrong. You knew what you
• 6:57
  were writing was wrong, but you did it because it's
• 7:00
  how they do it. Noel. Right, I'm not thinking it's wrong,
• 7:04
  like specific to the times, because I've never seen it
• 7:07
  done every thirty minutes, every thirty minutes, every thirty minutes. Question. Right,
• 7:13
  So it's always been falsified ever since you've been there,
• 7:16
  it's always been falsified record. Is that what you're saying, Noel.
• 7:20
  At the time that I've worked and the people that
• 7:22
  I've worked with, I've never seen it done every thirty
• 7:25
  minutes like that, no question. Correct, Noel, I've never seen it. Question.
• 7:30
  So you're trained on conducting thirty minute rounds and documenting
• 7:34
  when the thirty minutes. Your experience has taught you that
• 7:37
  that's not how they do it there. They always falsify
• 7:40
  those records and just put in whatever in the order
• 7:43
  to satisfy the thirty minute requirement. Noel, correct. Question. Okay,
• 7:48
  just one follow up question from a different investigator. You
• 7:52
  mentioned that that was the first time. Those two days
• 7:55
  were the first time you filled out the round sheet
• 7:57
  in the shoe prior to the shoe, before or you
• 8:00
  got to the shoe, did you fill out those round sheets? Noel,
• 8:03
  prior to working in the shoe. Question in the shoe,
• 8:07
  did you fill out? Noel cuts them off on other units.
• 8:10
  We don't have round sheets like this question. Do you
• 8:13
  have to conduct rounds in the other units? Noel, Yeah,
• 8:16
  but it's not documented on a round sheet. Question, But
• 8:20
  this was the first time you would have had to
• 8:23
  Noel in the shoe. It's documented on the sheet. Question.
• 8:26
  All right? So is it the first two times that
• 8:28
  you can recall documenting? Are we going to find other
• 8:31
  round sheets that you she cuts them off? The first
• 8:34
  two times that I can recall she gets cut off?
• 8:38
  These were the first two times, these two times, Noel,
• 8:41
  that I recall documenting? Question? All right? And did you
• 8:46
  Foy cuts them off? Have you gotten to this yet?
• 8:49
  You know I'm trying to lay back question absolutely and
• 8:52
  let you do your thing, But at some point you'll
• 8:55
  learn she never worked midnight to eight question yep, Foy
• 8:59
  before right, and there's a reason question and we have that.
• 9:04
  Do you want to give her a duty roster her
• 9:06
  daily assignment so that she can see Foy? Right? Question
• 9:11
  where she gets cut off by Foy? So there were
• 9:14
  events in her personal life because she used to do
• 9:16
  that come in early to avoid being mandated. Question sure, Foy,
• 9:21
  But she couldn't do it that day and got mandated.
• 9:24
  So now she's the officer in charge for the first
• 9:27
  time at midnight with the senior officer, even though he's
• 9:30
  really worked there regularly and he is not there for
• 9:33
  guidance as to speak. Question sure, and you know, question
• 9:37
  so this one, this was your Daly assignment. And I
• 9:40
  see where it says you're relieved without pay for a
• 9:43
  great amount of time up until it looks like six
• 9:46
  twenty six, twenty nineteen, you were assigned shoe number three
• 9:50
  and then through that we're looking at is a ten
• 9:54
  shoe number one. So if you want to reference this
• 9:58
  on the days that you worn't assignment, you were on
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  Foy where question Well, that's the thing. So I understand
• 10:04
  that you're saying is that this is your first time
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  and she was the one in charge and she wasn't
• 10:10
  having an officer in charge to confer with I guess Foy, right, question,
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  And that's why I'm getting back to the fact that
• 10:18
  she observed. You know, she knew that she was writing
• 10:22
  was false, but she did it because she saw everybody
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  else doing it, falsifying records Foy. So part of it
• 10:29
  is right, and you're not wrong when you say, well,
• 10:32
  that's falsification of documents and all that. Right, And I
• 10:36
  can understand and appreciate how it looks that way. Question. Sure, Foy, right,
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  And I'm not we're not disputing that, okay, but I'm
• 10:44
  thinking that there's also another way. It's like, well, inaccurate, right,
• 10:49
  But that's not committing a fraud to try and deceieve
• 10:52
  the institution because I just want to collect a paycheck
• 10:55
  and not do my job. It's not for those reasons.
• 10:58
  It's just because there's a BOP formal way and there's
• 11:01
  a MCC way of doing things that she's assimilating to.
• 11:04
  That's not the proper way. That is what should happen.
• 11:08
  A person needs to have the strength to step up
• 11:10
  and say no, a whistleblower or whatever, No, she didn't
• 11:14
  do that, right question. And I can appreciate that, And
• 11:18
  that's why I lay this and say that this is
• 11:20
  a cultural institution problem. Foy right. Question, And I agree
• 11:26
  with that, and I'm saying this was wrong, that she
• 11:28
  observed this and those people that were doing that were
• 11:31
  absolutely wrong. All I was trying to get to is
• 11:35
  that we can all agree that you know that every
• 11:37
  thirty minutes is when the round is supposed to be
• 11:40
  entered in there, Foy, So he gets cut off, you know,
• 11:44
  and she knows that she was entering the wrong information
• 11:47
  when she did it. Foy. We don't disagree. She understood
• 11:51
  I didn't really do a six OZHO three round or whatever, right,
• 11:54
  But I don't know if she experienced that. As on
• 11:57
  falsifying records, which she is in her mind doing, is well,
• 12:01
  we're supposed to do rounds, but no one ever really
• 12:04
  does the every thirty to forty minutes. But you got
• 12:07
  to fill out certain paperwork that's required, so you fill
• 12:10
  out the paperwork. Now, I know from looking at the discovery,
• 12:13
  not every single officer did that right. Question, sure, Foy.
• 12:17
  I saw on discovery that there were people there and
• 12:20
  there would be blanks where the round should have been.
• 12:22
  So they accurately reflected, I suppose when they did. But
• 12:25
  I think a lot more common is that it's not right.
• 12:30
  So she followed the strain question absolutely, Foy. She did
• 12:34
  not chart her own path, which is with you know
• 12:37
  why she's got to take responsibility for that part question,
• 12:40
  And that's also why we discuss this isn't all about you,
• 12:43
  it's about the institution. Foy. Yeah, understood question. And this
• 12:49
  seems like it's an institution problem. And that's awful that
• 12:52
  your one year on and this is what you observed
• 12:54
  this entire time, Foy. And I only say that because
• 12:58
  I feel like in watching your interaction, you're kind of
• 13:01
  talking past each other on your focus on if it's
• 13:04
  the falsification, knowing it's wrong. And she's like, well, yeah,
• 13:08
  but I'm just kind of doing I'm not trying to
• 13:10
  commit a crime like it wasn't like and that's kind
• 13:13
  of been my pitch the whole time. She wasn't out
• 13:17
  to commit a crime. This isn't about hiding my behavior
• 13:20
  because Jeff Epstein died. Right, It's all there, right. Even
• 13:24
  the theory of the case is when asked what happened,
• 13:26
  we messed up. That's the like, tell the truth. There's
• 13:30
  no deceit in frustrating the investigation or the response. Now
• 13:34
  we're here, we're trying to clear it up. We understand
• 13:37
  the job that you have, you know, address some of
• 13:39
  the specifics here, but it's a much more broader vision.
• 13:42
  So we're trying to bring light to that she's doing
• 13:45
  the best she can to do it. I think the
• 13:47
  issue is we're doing this almost two years later, right,
• 13:51
  that's the problem. And he gets caught off and the
• 13:55
  next day might be a little easier to address, Foy, right, question,
• 13:59
  So and we can jump right into that. Foy. Okay,
• 14:04
  all right. So we're gonna wrap up right here and
• 14:05
  in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going
• 14:08
  to pick up where we left off. All the information
• 14:10
  that goes with this episode can be found in the
• 14:13
  description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode
• 14:17
  of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to
• 14:21
  pick up where we left off with the Tovia Noel
• 14:25
  interview with the OIG Inspectors. Question, so on August tenth,
• 14:30
  is that also in front of you? I can't remember
• 14:32
  at this point what I provided you the round sheet
• 14:34
  for August tenth? Foy the round sheet? Noel? Yeah? Question?
• 14:39
  Did you conduct any rounds on August tenth that are
• 14:42
  not Noel cuts them off? No, I did not, question.
• 14:46
  And did you also pre populate that Noel? Yeah? Question?
• 14:50
  All right, so you know everything you wrote in there? Again,
• 14:53
  I understand that you said this is what you observed.
• 14:56
  No one told you to do it this way because
• 14:58
  you saw other people doing it this way, but you
• 15:01
  knew that you didn't conduct any rounds that you listed
• 15:04
  on the sheet. Noel, Yeah, question correct? And what about
• 15:09
  cell counts? And I'm only trying to move past because
• 15:12
  we have a lot more to get through. Question, But
• 15:15
  if there's something else you want to address on there, Foy, Yeah, no,
• 15:19
  we're good. Question So the cell counts? When did you
• 15:23
  conduct cell counts, sorry in may counts during your shift
• 15:26
  in the shoe on August ninth, twenty nineteen. Noel, Oh,
• 15:31
  that's the ninth question August ninth. So we're talking now
• 15:35
  the four pm and ten pm Noel ten question, did
• 15:39
  you conduct those counts? Noel? Ten? Question, just ten, not
• 15:43
  the four pms? Noel, not at four question. Now, do
• 15:47
  you recall actually conducting the ten as you're supposed to
• 15:51
  do it? Noel, No, because my partner was on a
• 15:55
  triple question. Okay, so he was doing a triple shift. Well, yeah,
• 16:00
  he worked three consecutive shifts. Question Okay, Noel, So I
• 16:04
  conducted the ten by myself? Question and you actually went
• 16:08
  around and counted every inmate? Noel? Yeah. Question and we
• 16:12
  want to show you the count slips redacted all of it.
• 16:16
  Question will start, I guess with just August ninth, because
• 16:20
  we don't want to give her too much stuff, all right,
• 16:23
  So what I'm going to show you here is the
• 16:25
  first page. It's going to be like the institutional count,
• 16:29
  and it's going to show you like ZA is ZA
• 16:32
  correct for the shoe? Did you know that that is
• 16:35
  what ZA stands for? Noel, I don't remember. Question? All right,
• 16:40
  So ZA is going to be the number that's going
• 16:43
  to reflect for the shoe, and then I'll tell you
• 16:45
  what the total number is in the count on this page.
• 16:48
  It'll say seventy five. And it looks like this was beforehand,
• 16:54
  and then at the end you're going to see that
• 16:56
  actual count slips, and I'm going to ask you you
• 16:58
  know who was on the councilip that you filled out
• 17:01
  and who else was on there with you? Noel, okay?
• 17:05
  Question In this instance, I believe it's on the second
• 17:08
  to last page, so that you don't have to flip
• 17:10
  through all this, but you can let me know if
• 17:13
  that's accurate. So sorry, it looks like that one was
• 17:17
  four PM, and I believe this one is at ten Noel.
• 17:22
  So let me indiscernible question. You went indiscernible question. This
• 17:27
  is ten pm, Noel. Uh huh. The union Rep pipes
• 17:31
  in when you call into control. This is how they
• 17:34
  determine what your account matches their learning base count. Right,
• 17:39
  So ZA is nine South, ZB is ten South Noel
• 17:43
  Okay Union Rep. They match. This is all of our accounts, right.
• 17:48
  And then what they do is this is at the
• 17:51
  handwritten outcome or out count from the employee. This is
• 17:54
  what they indiscernible entry. This is what's keeping this entry
• 17:59
  and a reflect on here. These are the outcount areas
• 18:02
  and inmate could be right. So five souths count seventy five.
• 18:06
  Their unit count is seventy eight. Three people were in
• 18:09
  food service Noel Okay Union Rep. So when they actually
• 18:14
  counted living breathing bodies, they only had seventy five Noel right,
• 18:19
  Union Rep. So now just apply that to the shoe.
• 18:22
  This is your shoe count. You add a one inmate
• 18:25
  out counted to attorney conference Noel Okay Union Rep. Right,
• 18:30
  So you come down, here's one. So the actual count,
• 18:33
  the total count that's supposed to be there is this number.
• 18:36
  This is the inmate out counted and this is what
• 18:40
  whoever counted called in Noel. Uh huh question, or should
• 18:44
  have called in Noel, uh huh? Union rep. That number
• 18:48
  is supposed to match. These are all out counts. That
• 18:51
  number is supposed to correspond with the count slips for
• 18:54
  your respective housing unit. Right, And then I guess he's
• 18:58
  asking you to review your effective tell me if I'm wrong,
• 19:02
  review your respective count slip for your unit on your shift.
• 19:06
  And then I guess you wanted to confirm a signature
• 19:08
  on gets cut off. Sure, I just wanted to see
• 19:12
  the second So one page back, that second to last page,
• 19:15
  can you just find if there's a count slip that
• 19:18
  you created or signed in there? Noel? I see here
• 19:22
  it says it has my name on it. It says
• 19:24
  four pm count. I don't recall at four pm. Question
• 19:28
  does it look like your signature or your handwriting? Noel?
• 19:33
  Where the noel is no? Question? How about your signature, Noel.
• 19:37
  The signature looks like my signature, but where the noel
• 19:41
  is no? But I don't recall doing I may have
• 19:43
  done the four I don't recall, but I know I
• 19:46
  did ten. Question? All right, so you don't recall if
• 19:49
  you did the four pm or not? Noel, I don't remember.
• 19:53
  Question you don't recall, Noel, I don't remember. Question all right?
• 19:57
  What's the number that's listed on there on that cant
• 20:00
  out Noel, seventy five question? And that is your actual signature? Noel? Yes?
• 20:05
  Question all right, and it says seventy five. Noel, yes. Question. Okay?
• 20:10
  What is there on the first page? What does it
• 20:13
  say that the number is and that's the count for
• 20:16
  the shoe? Noel, seventy five? Question seventy five? Okay, so
• 20:20
  your signature. You're claiming you can't recall four pm? Noel,
• 20:25
  I don't recall. Question all right, and I'm sure that
• 20:28
  in preparation for this, did you discuss at all or
• 20:31
  review or kind of you know, at two years now,
• 20:34
  did I do the four pm count or not? No Noel?
• 20:38
  No question? Okay do you remember who called in that count? Noel?
• 20:41
  No question? All right, that's fine. Now the ten pm
• 20:45
  count is next to you, foy right here. Question can
• 20:49
  you do the same thing? Go to the last page.
• 20:52
  It could potentially be on the last page or potentially
• 20:55
  the second to last. You're going to look for anything
• 20:58
  you recall you signed or are you documented Okay, is
• 21:04
  there someone somewhere that you signed that you signed on
• 21:07
  that Noel, Yeah, on the bottom. Question and who was
• 21:10
  and I do apologize, let me before I even go
• 21:13
  to that. Who else was on the count slip with
• 21:15
  you at four pm? Noel? Redacted? Question redacted? All right,
• 21:20
  so he signed that one or you? Noel? According to
• 21:23
  the sheet? Question? Do you know if they were prepopulated?
• 21:26
  The four pm is also how you did the rounds?
• 21:30
  Did you also prepopulate the count slips? Noel on the
• 21:33
  midnight eight? But not on she gets caught off, not
• 21:37
  that one, Noel, No not this one. Question? Do you
• 21:40
  know who filled it out? I know it's your signature,
• 21:43
  but you said it didn't look like you're handwriting. But
• 21:46
  for the four pm now we're talking about I'm just
• 21:49
  reverting back. Did you know who actually completed the count slip? Noel,
• 21:53
  the count slip? Who filled it out? I don't recall
• 21:56
  question no, but it was you and redacted that we're
• 21:59
  on it, Noel, just being redacted. That's out there. Question
• 22:03
  And this didn't look like you're handwriting? Noel for Noel,
• 22:07
  No for the signature question right for the and I
• 22:11
  think you're looking at ten. Right now, I'm just reverting
• 22:14
  back to the four. That doesn't look like you're handwriting
• 22:17
  as far as counting out, It just looks like you're
• 22:20
  a signature on it. Noel. Yeah. Question, and you simply
• 22:24
  just don't recall if you did or did not do
• 22:27
  that count Noel, I don't remember. Question all right, the
• 22:30
  ten PM. Now we're looking at who was on that
• 22:33
  with you? Noel mean redacted question? And who can you
• 22:37
  tell by looking at the handwriting who filled that out? Noel,
• 22:40
  I don't remember, but I signed. Question Does that look
• 22:44
  like your handwriting that filled it out? Can you tell? Noel?
• 22:47
  No question, You're not able to identify your handwriting. Noel. No,
• 22:52
  I'm saying, this doesn't look like my handwriting, but that's
• 22:54
  my signature. Question. Oh, that's your signature. But that doesn't
• 22:58
  look like you actually completed the slip. I'm asking, did
• 23:02
  you complete that slip? Noel? Yeah, I don't. And this
• 23:06
  is right here, the seven eighty three I wrote that,
• 23:08
  but ten. I don't write my numbers like that. Question Okay, Noel,
• 23:12
  So yeah, I don't put the zero zero in a
• 23:15
  cross question? Is that the indiscernible question? Is there anything
• 23:21
  next to the seventy three on that, Noel, I put
• 23:24
  plus one? Question? What is that for? Noel? I don't remember. Question.
• 23:29
  You don't know why you put seventy three plus one? Noel,
• 23:32
  I don't remember. Question? Is that abnormal to write seventy
• 23:35
  three plus one? Question? I don't even know they there's
• 23:40
  a plus one on there? Question, but you wrote seventy three,
• 23:44
  and somebody else may have put the plus one, Noel,
• 23:47
  I don't remember. But the seventy three is mine? Question? Okay?
• 23:51
  And you don't know what plus one would mean? Noel?
• 23:53
  No question? All right? And then what is the first
• 23:57
  page that the institution counts were then? For za Noel,
• 24:02
  seventy three? Question seventy three? All right, so again that's
• 24:06
  plus one. You're not sure, Noel, No question. And now
• 24:11
  can you just explain to me You said you specifically
• 24:14
  recall conducting that count Noel. Ten. Yeah. Question, And you
• 24:18
  actually went through and counted all the inmates, Noel, all
• 24:22
  the inmates? Question on every tier? Noel, yeah. Question. But
• 24:27
  it was prepopulated counselate, Noel. No, that was for the
• 24:30
  midnight to eight in the morning question. All right, Noel,
• 24:34
  we filled it out before question. So ten PM wasn't
• 24:38
  prepopulated Noel, No question. You did that after you conducted
• 24:42
  the count? Noel, yeah. Question all right, but not with
• 24:46
  another COO Noel, no question. And who was the CEO
• 24:50
  that was supposed to have done it with you? Noel? Redacted?
• 24:54
  Question and redacted? Did sign it even though he didn't
• 24:58
  do it? Noel? Yes? Question? And did you have any
• 25:02
  discussion with him at that time? Noel? He was tired,
• 25:05
  he was on a triple question okay. And what did
• 25:08
  you say? What did he say to you? Noel, he
• 25:11
  was tired? Question? Did he leave then? Noel? No question?
• 25:15
  Or did he just stand there and watch you do it? Noel?
• 25:18
  Know he was asleep? Question? He slept? All right? So
• 25:22
  he was sleeping when that was conducted, Noel. Yeah. Question Okay,
• 25:27
  do you know how long he slept for Noel until
• 25:30
  it was time for him to go home? Question? So
• 25:33
  like ten to twelve miss Noel? Approximately? Question Okay, but
• 25:37
  you're certain you conducted the count? Noel absolutely. Question okay?
• 25:42
  And are you confident that number is correct? Noel? What
• 25:45
  the seventy three question? Yeah? Noel? Yeah. Question All right.
• 25:50
  Now let's show the twelve am does this go there? Question?
• 25:54
  It's indiscernible. All right, So before I guess, first, can
• 25:58
  you go to the back of the thing and see
• 26:00
  the counts, find the count slip Can you find if
• 26:03
  are you on there? Check the last page? Noel yeah.
• 26:07
  Question And is this the one that you said you prepopulated?
• 26:11
  Noel yeah. Question okay? And did you fill the count
• 26:14
  slip out? Noel? Thomas? Question Thomas did Noel? Yes? Question?
• 26:20
  And you signed it? Noel yes. Question, So Thomas is
• 26:24
  the one that prepopulated it? Noel, Yeah, we filled all
• 26:27
  of them out? Question? Oh you filled out all but three? Noel, yeah,
• 26:32
  he wrote and I signed. Question all right? So the
• 26:35
  twelve and the three and the five you did it
• 26:37
  all at once? Noel yeah. Question all right? And then
• 26:41
  what number is written on there? Noel seventy three? Question?
• 26:45
  Now look at the first page. What number is written
• 26:47
  on there? Noel seventy two? Question? All right, So what
• 26:51
  happened with that? Noel, I don't remember. Question At what
• 26:55
  point did an inmate disappear? Noel, I don't remember. I
• 26:58
  called in seventy three. Question if you called in seventy three,
• 27:02
  did you actually count seventy three people? Noel, Well, we
• 27:06
  didn't count at twelve? Question? I know, but at ten
• 27:10
  you said you did? Noel did yes? Question so at
• 27:13
  ten you did? But there's only seventy two people there
• 27:16
  at ten? So did you actually do the count at ten?
• 27:19
  Did you call? Did you actually count the inmates? Noel?
• 27:22
  I actually counted all the inmates at ten, absolutely count
• 27:26
  at all? Question? And you counted at seventy three of them? Noel,
• 27:30
  I actually counted all the inmates at ten. Question So
• 27:33
  where did the one inmate go? Noel, I don't know.
• 27:36
  Question do you remember any inmate being removed from the
• 27:39
  shoe after ten pm? Noel? No question? All right, can
• 27:44
  you show her this count? Here's the three am count.
• 27:47
  Can you see the top sheet right here? Can you
• 27:49
  find za how many? What number is it on that?
• 27:53
  Noel seventy two? Question all right, so seventy two again
• 27:57
  on that? That's the institution count. That's how many people
• 28:00
  are actually in the shoe. What does it say on
• 28:03
  the count slip? Noel, seventy two? Question seventy two? So
• 28:08
  what happened between ten and three? Noel? Why the numbers
• 28:11
  are I don't know? Question why are the numbers different? Noel,
• 28:16
  I don't remember. Question by the union rep. Let me
• 28:19
  see this again, Noel. Yeah. Question, it's in the indiscernible question.
• 28:25
  And I don't dispute that maybe you did around at ten.
• 28:28
  Are you sure you did a count? Noel? No, I
• 28:30
  did a count at ten. Question? You counted all the
• 28:33
  inmates and it added up to seventy three, Noel, because
• 28:37
  that's what's on I wrote seventy three question right, And
• 28:41
  then if you notice you wrote seventy three again at twelve, Noel,
• 28:46
  that Thomas wrote it at she gets cut off, But
• 28:49
  there's actually seventy two, Noel, twelve and then on the
• 28:52
  front it says seventy two and then the count. But
• 28:55
  then if the numbers didn't match, the count wouldn't have cleared. Question.
• 28:59
  And that's where I'm going to ask you. Did you
• 29:01
  have any conversation? So here's the five am, and this
• 29:05
  is also says seventy two for the official count, and
• 29:08
  I believe you guys wrote seventy two. How did you
• 29:11
  discuss this with anybody that the counts were off, Noel? No,
• 29:15
  I think Thomas discussed. Thomas was on the phone, because
• 29:19
  the count wouldn't have cleared if it said seventy two
• 29:22
  and seventy three. But I think Thomas had a conversation,
• 29:25
  but I didn't have a conversation with anybody redacted. Did
• 29:29
  you have a conversation with Thomas with regard to the
• 29:31
  count being off? Noel, No question. So if you did
• 29:35
  all the pre populating at twelve, why does twelve say
• 29:39
  seventy three and the other two say seventy two and
• 29:41
  seventy two? Noel. I remember at the other one Thomas
• 29:46
  said that he had the count slips all and I
• 29:48
  couldn't find I couldn't find the count slip, and I
• 29:50
  remember I rewrote it. But as far as why the
• 29:53
  count changed to seventy two, I don't remember why. Question. Well,
• 29:57
  I can tell you why because the count was off. Noel.
• 30:00
  H question. So that's what I'm asking. If you actually
• 30:04
  did that ten PM count, how did you get seventy three? Noel?
• 30:08
  I don't know. Question, But you're sure you counted seventy three? Noel.
• 30:12
  I absolutely counted at ten. Question? But no inmates left
• 30:16
  after ten? Miss Noel? No, I mean, I remember I
• 30:20
  counted by myself, and I indiscernible counted with somebody and
• 30:23
  we compared the numbers. But I counted at ten. Question,
• 30:27
  could have your you've been mistaken during your count? Noel probably.
• 30:31
  Question do you believe that you were probably mistaken? Noell? Probably?
• 30:35
  Question Okay, so you're certain you conducted the count Noel, yes, question,
• 30:40
  but you think probably just counted wrong? Noel, wrong, wrong?
• 30:44
  Maybe because it's seventy two after question Okay, and you
• 30:48
  went through and you tell me how account works? Do
• 30:51
  you add them up? Question? Yeah? Like I write it
• 30:54
  like k Tier, and then I write it El Tier,
• 30:57
  and then I write it and then we added up. Right.
• 31:00
  Do you want to follow up with that at all? Question?
• 31:03
  Do you recall that night during your shift? Noel? Yeah.
• 31:08
  Question so let's say, from when you came in from
• 31:11
  four pm? Or did you come in at two? What
• 31:14
  you said? Noel? Four? Question four to midnight? Were there
• 31:18
  any inmates removed from the shoe Noel when I came on? Question? Yeah, Noel,
• 31:24
  not that I know of. Question. If there were inmates
• 31:26
  removed from the shoe, would you have been aware of it?
• 31:29
  Miss Noel? I mean if I was there? Yeah. Question
• 31:32
  do you recall and so you don't? Do you recall
• 31:35
  two inmates? Noel going to suicide watch? Yeah? Question do
• 31:38
  you recall about that, Noel. Yeah, question, what happened with that?
• 31:42
  All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here,
• 31:44
  and in the next episode, we're going to pick up
• 31:46
  where we left off. All the information that goes with
• 31:50
  this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
• 31:54
  and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
• 31:58
  this episode, we're going to pick up where we off
• 32:00
  with the toven O Weell interview with the OIG Inspectors. Question,
• 32:06
  what happened with that? Noel? I'm not really sure because
• 32:09
  I remember a dacta told me, But I remember the
• 32:12
  two inmates didn't go to suicide watch, but I don't
• 32:15
  recall as far as indiscernible question, did that happen during
• 32:19
  your shift or did it happen before your shift? Noel?
• 32:22
  During question? During your shift? Was that after the four
• 32:26
  pm count? Noel? I think if I could have been
• 32:30
  after four pm, but I came in at four. Question. Okay,
• 32:34
  if you look at the numbers on the four pm count,
• 32:37
  is it correct, Noel? Indiscernible question, it says seventy five foy,
• 32:43
  I don't think it says four Noel, No question. It's
• 32:47
  at the bottom of the page. It says seventy five. Question,
• 32:52
  and then two people went to suicide watch correct Noel,
• 32:55
  correct question. All right, but no one else left the
• 32:58
  shoe correct Noel, no question. So that's what we're saying.
• 33:02
  Somewhere between four pm and three am, either an inmate
• 33:06
  went missing, or the counts weren't conducted, or they were off. Noel,
• 33:11
  the counts were off. Question, they were off. But if
• 33:14
  your job was actually a to count the inmate, how
• 33:16
  are they off? Usually what you're saying is you're just
• 33:20
  taking the number. You're pre populating this a lot of times,
• 33:24
  saying what your number, you believe it's supposed to be
• 33:26
  in there. But if you actually conducted the counts, you
• 33:29
  would actually know that there was only seventy two, correct, Noel.
• 33:33
  I counted, question, But you couldn't have counted seventy three
• 33:38
  because Noel cuts in. Well, that's what I'm saying. Maybe
• 33:43
  that's where the error is. But I counted question No
• 33:47
  see at four count question, you counted, but you counted wrong? Noel. Yes,
• 33:53
  that's what I'm saying, because I absolutely counted. But I
• 33:56
  remember redacted was tired, he was on a triple and
• 34:00
  he was falling asleep. Question again. And I'm not saying
• 34:03
  you didn't conduct around. I'm asking if you conducted account Noel.
• 34:08
  And I went and counted question okay. And you're positive
• 34:11
  of that, Noel, that I counted question yup, Noel, Yes,
• 34:16
  question okay, Noel. But the number could have been off,
• 34:19
  but I counted question okay. That's why he gets cut
• 34:23
  off by Noel, because if I was counting with somebody,
• 34:26
  if I would have said seventy three, he would have
• 34:29
  counted and he would have got seventy two. That's why
• 34:31
  you've got to count with two people. Question. Sure. And
• 34:35
  at the twelve am you said you remember Thomas speaking
• 34:38
  to someone Noel on the phone. Question, but you don't
• 34:41
  know who Noel. No question. And did you have any
• 34:45
  conversation with Thomas at that time, Noel, No, except for
• 34:49
  the change the count slip and I signed question. He
• 34:52
  changed which count slip, Noel, the one that had seventy
• 34:55
  two on there? Question? So he changed the three AM
• 34:58
  and the five am at that time, Noel. He changed
• 35:01
  one of the count slips, and then I was looking
• 35:04
  of or for the other one, and I couldn't find it.
• 35:07
  And then I did I remember I filled out one question.
• 35:11
  But if you so, you're saying, I thought you said
• 35:13
  at twelve am you prepopulated all the count slips. Noel,
• 35:18
  we did. Question So but the twelve am says seventy
• 35:23
  three Noel. Yeah. Question, and the three and the five
• 35:26
  say seventy two Noel, right. Question. So is the seventy
• 35:30
  two that was submitted and then he talked to you
• 35:33
  and then he gets cut off by Noel? Well, I
• 35:36
  believe that because then it would have been when it
• 35:39
  got submitted, it would have been that the count wouldn't
• 35:42
  have cleared, it would have been off. So then it
• 35:45
  would have been indiscernible, it would have been or had
• 35:48
  to have been changed. Question. Okay, the count slip would
• 35:52
  have had to have changed, is what you're saying. Noel. Yes. Question,
• 35:56
  And is that the time, Noel? If the count doesn't
• 35:59
  match what's on here, than it would have had to
• 36:01
  have been changed. Question. If account is off like it was,
• 36:06
  what happens, Noel, you redo the count slip and redo
• 36:09
  the count? Question in this case, do you recall them
• 36:12
  telling you to redo the count Noel? No question. No.
• 36:16
  And did Thomas say, hey, I just spoke to the
• 36:18
  lieutenant and they said to redo the count Noel. No question,
• 36:23
  No Noel. Question, do you remember redoing the slip that
• 36:27
  says seventy three whereas the institution count says seventy two? Noel,
• 36:32
  Let me see question because I just want to make
• 36:35
  sure because the video shows that no accounts were done
• 36:37
  at ten Noel. I saw that also in the indictment.
• 36:42
  But I did count at ten. Question. And this is
• 36:44
  again part of the whole under oath thing because there
• 36:47
  were only seventy two people on there. So if you're
• 36:49
  only saying you did the count, I just want to
• 36:52
  reconcile that now before I have a potential problem in
• 36:55
  the future. Question So redacted never assisted you with the
• 37:00
  ten PM count, right, Noel? No question? So you wrote
• 37:04
  seventy three plus one? Noel, I wrote seventy three. Question,
• 37:08
  So you don't recall the plus one, Noel, the plus one?
• 37:11
  I don't recall that. Question. Does that look like you're
• 37:14
  handwriting the plus one? Noel, I don't know. Question you
• 37:21
  don't know? And when did redacted sign that? Would it
• 37:25
  have been before he went to sleep? Noel? Yeah, question
• 37:28
  would it have been much before ten? Noel, I don't
• 37:31
  remember the exact timeframe? Question when you wrote that count slip.
• 37:36
  Was the time accurate to when you conducted the count? Noel, Yeah,
• 37:40
  because you counted ten. Question. Okay, so the time that's there,
• 37:45
  it's reflected, Noel. But she gets cut off the actual
• 37:49
  count slip. Noel, Yeah, it says ten. Question all right,
• 37:53
  So if around that time he would have just signed
• 37:55
  it and you went up Noel, I went up. Question
• 37:59
  and you act actually did the count? Not around and
• 38:01
  you did a count? Noel, I counted. Question okay, and
• 38:05
  you just have no explanation for why the count is off, Noel.
• 38:09
  You can miscount. So I'm not saying that the number
• 38:11
  couldn't have been off, but as far as the count,
• 38:13
  like I counted, it could have been a miscount. But
• 38:16
  I counted. Question all right. I've got a follow up.
• 38:20
  Do you recall an inmate being moved to a dry
• 38:22
  cell that night? Noel? Dry cell? No question? Do you
• 38:26
  know what that is? Noel? Yeah? Forty okay. Question do
• 38:31
  you remember an inmate named Fernandez? Noel, No question. You
• 38:34
  don't recall during your shift the inmate wasn't moved Noel, No,
• 38:38
  I don't. She gets cut off if an inmate was
• 38:41
  moved to another cell, let's just say dry cell. Where
• 38:44
  is drysel located? Noel, I don't know. Question is it
• 38:48
  in you know where R and D is? Noel? Yeah?
• 38:51
  Question is it in R and D? Noel, I don't know. Question. Okay,
• 38:55
  if an inmate was moved R and D, would you
• 38:57
  still include the inmate as part of your account? Noel?
• 39:01
  If the inmate was moved, I would think they'd be
• 39:03
  on the out count. I'm not sure. Question. But you
• 39:06
  wouldn't include because you couldn't see the inmate Noel, Right,
• 39:10
  they'd be on the outcount. Question. Yeah, you only count
• 39:13
  the people that are physically present, Noel. Counselate question do
• 39:20
  you recall any instances of why anyone would write plus one?
• 39:24
  What was that plus one? We've been trying to figure
• 39:27
  out what the plus one is? Noel, plus one? I
• 39:30
  don't know. Question. Yeah, I'm more concerned with the seventy
• 39:34
  three when there was only seventy two people. Now, I'm
• 39:37
  not going to doubt that you counted at least one tier.
• 39:39
  You counted all six tiers Noel. Yes, question, and you
• 39:44
  added those up and it equals seventy three. Noel, That's
• 39:47
  what I have on here. Question do you remember, I mean,
• 39:51
  I know that you have on there, but that's what
• 39:53
  I'm saying, that's inaccurate. So I'm trying to I'm trying
• 39:57
  to reconcile that, miss Noel. But see, I don't remember
• 40:01
  that at this point, Like I mean, I wrote seventy three,
• 40:05
  I counted. I remember Thomas having a conversation the number
• 40:09
  was switched to seventy two, but I don't remember like
• 40:12
  physically like adding it up, like I don't remember that.
• 40:15
  And again maybe I miscounted because I counted by myself.
• 40:19
  This was before but at twelve question and being that
• 40:23
  redacted signed before you did the count, do you think
• 40:27
  you prepopulated that and then counted Noel? I could have
• 40:31
  been I don't remember. Question. So you may have written
• 40:35
  the slip first and then counted Noel. I don't remember
• 40:39
  at this point. Question. Okay, but at the twelve am count,
• 40:42
  when you guys were told this count is off, you
• 40:45
  didn't then go as you should have recount Noel. No question.
• 40:49
  And you do understand that if account's off, you're supposed
• 40:53
  to do a recount. Correct Noel, recount question? All right,
• 40:57
  so the twelve am there's not dispute. Twelve am, the
• 41:00
  three am and the five am, you guys didn't do it, Noel, correct. Question,
• 41:06
  and you both signed those slips knowing that the counts
• 41:09
  weren't done ten pm you're claiming that you did. You
• 41:13
  don't know when you filled out the slip, and you
• 41:15
  don't know why it's inaccurate, Noel Right. Question. And the
• 41:18
  four PM you're just saying you don't remember, Noel the
• 41:21
  four yes question, So you don't remember if it was
• 41:24
  conducted or if it wasn't conducted. Noel, Well, the four
• 41:28
  would have been conducted because we feed at that time. Question. Well,
• 41:33
  that's not account though. Again I'm talking. I don't want
• 41:36
  to say, I want to make sure that where he
• 41:39
  gets cut off? Right, But I don't remember physically at
• 41:44
  four pm counting. I don't remember redacted. Okay, so you
• 41:48
  don't recall counting. You know that you did people at
• 41:52
  four Noel Right. Question, So that would have been what
• 41:55
  you call around, Noel right. Question, what you classify your
• 41:59
  understanding of as around? But the count Noel Right, I
• 42:02
  don't recall. Question, you don't recall conducting the four pm, Noel,
• 42:07
  no I counted she gets cut off? Do you believe
• 42:11
  that you did conduct a count at four pm? Noel,
• 42:14
  I don't know. Question, so you just can't recall Noel,
• 42:18
  I don't remember. Question Okay, Noel, I counted at three
• 42:21
  and five upstairs. Question that's incorrect at ten? Question in
• 42:26
  ten south? Noel? Yeah, question all right. So is it
• 42:31
  safe to say that you did the feed which you
• 42:33
  classified as around, but you didn't count at four? Noel,
• 42:37
  I don't know. Question, you don't know. Okay, we're going
• 42:40
  to just move on, mister Foy. Let me do this
• 42:44
  real quick. I just want to try to clarify this.
• 42:47
  Let me because this is something we haven't discussed in advance.
• 42:50
  Redacted of course, Foyd, because I didn't know there was
• 42:53
  an off on the number. Noel, I didn't even remember that. Foy.
• 42:57
  All right, So can we take this out with us
• 42:59
  and speak on it real quick? Question? Uhuh, Foy? Or
• 43:04
  you want to keep it in here? Question? How about
• 43:07
  we leave and let you discuss it in here? Foy? Okay,
• 43:10
  that's fine. Question? Does that work? Foy? Yeah? That's fine.
• 43:14
  Question just because I don't really want to have documents removed. Foy. Yeah, okay.
• 43:19
  Question all right. So it's one thirty eight pm. This
• 43:21
  is senior special Agent redacted, and I'm pausing the recording.
• 43:25
  All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here as well,
• 43:28
  and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
• 43:30
  gonna pick up where we left off. All the information
• 43:33
  that goes with this episode can be found in the
• 43:36
  description box.