Latest / Preacher Handshake / Episode 6 - Trinette McCray

Transcript

Episode 6 - Trinette McCray · Preacher Handshake

0:00
Welcome back to Preacher Handshake. I'm Hannah.
0:02
And I'm Evan, and we're your hosts. This episode,
0:05
we talk to Rev. Dr. Trinette V. McRae and look
0:08
at a sermon she preached at Victory Missionary
0:10
Baptist Church in Milwaukee, Wisconsin on March
0:12
30, 2025. The sermon is called Lifting as We
0:16
Climb, and it's based on Ruth 1, 1 -18. Reverend
0:20
Dr. Trinette Vernell -McRae is a proud Milwaukee,
0:23
Wisconsin native. She holds a bachelor's degree
0:26
in urban affairs from the University of Wisconsin
0:28
-Oshkosh, a master's of religious education from
0:32
Morehouse School of Religion, and a doctorate
0:34
of ministry from Northern Baptist Theological
0:36
Seminary. Reverend Trinette was licensed to preach
0:39
and ordained in 1981 by the late civil rights
0:42
leader, the Reverend Dr. Ralph David Abernathy.
0:45
Since then, she has been a leader in church denominational,
0:49
educational, and faith -based organizations.
0:51
In 1999, Dr. McRae became the first clergywoman
0:54
elected as president of American Baptist Churches
0:57
USA. She's currently the president of the American
1:00
Baptist National Black Caucus of ABC USA. She
1:03
also worked as the executive planner of Urban
1:05
Center Milwaukee and is the author of Vital Spirit,
1:08
Vital Service, Spirituality that Works. Reverend
1:11
McRae is kind of one of those people that the
1:13
more I learn about her, the more I am just in
1:16
awe of her and all of the things that she's accomplished
1:18
and all the places that she has been involved
1:21
with in her life. Her sermon was really impactful
1:25
for me for a lot of different reasons. It's one
1:27
of those that I am continuing to think about
1:29
a lot. particularly the way i think that she
1:31
just weaves together these moments of history
1:34
she's holding together these you know giants
1:38
that she's standing on the shoulders of and the
1:41
people in her own life and has an eye towards
1:43
the future and it was just really beautiful the
1:45
way that she did that within this story. And
1:49
I think also for me as a white female, it's really
1:51
helpful to hear sometimes how preachers of color
1:55
and particularly female preachers of color are
1:59
experiencing the pulpit differently than I am.
2:01
And that was really something that I'm continuing
2:04
to learn from, I think. I really loved how she
2:09
brought in this history and then also brought
2:12
in her own lived experience with the story of
2:15
Ruth. and her own cancer diagnosis and treatment,
2:19
and this process that she's been through as a
2:21
cancer survivor, and even some of the challenges
2:26
she's currently facing at the point where they've
2:29
run out of treatments for the kind of cancer
2:32
that she has. The way that she was able to use
2:34
her story, she was able to preach the text in
2:38
a way that nobody else could. In fact, with her
2:42
blessing, I used a clip from this sermon in one
2:45
of my own sermons recently, because the way that
2:49
she was able to express something from her perspective
2:52
and her lived experience, I couldn't do, but
2:55
I felt like my people needed to hear that story.
2:58
And so to see a sermon so embodied, it was just
3:02
really moving for me. And the content is really
3:05
moving. And I just, I can't wait for everyone
3:07
to listen to it. I'd so encourage you to listen
3:09
to the whole thing. Something that's a little
3:12
extra special about this episode is that Trinette
3:15
actually came to us as a recommendation from
3:17
a listener. So if you have suggestions for preachers
3:20
that we should listen to or talk to, make sure
3:23
and let us know on social media or through our
3:25
email, preacherhandshake at gmail .com. As always,
3:30
you can listen to Trinette's full sermon through
3:32
the link in our show notes. So now, enjoy our
3:34
conversation with Reverend Dr. Trinette McRae.
3:43
Well, welcome, Trinette. We are so glad that
3:45
you are here. We're excited to talk to you today.
3:49
Well, thank you. It's good to be here, and thank
3:50
you for the invitation. One of the things that
3:54
we like to ask of all of our guests is, what
3:57
is your relationship to preaching? Right. It's
4:01
an extension, actually. I had had, you might
4:07
have noticed in my sermon that I talked about
4:11
giving uh communion serving communion to my dolls
4:14
but it was that early on that uh preaching was
4:21
beginning to stir and i think i was you know
4:23
five six years old and i had no model no female
4:29
models so i didn't know where this was coming
4:32
from and of course back then i guess i was I
4:36
was born in 54, so 59, 60s, you know, until the
4:42
70s. I didn't have preaching available to my
4:48
spirit. And I'll put it like that. It wasn't
4:51
available to my spirit. And once that became
4:58
available through, I met a woman. minister at
5:06
a college, and she was a campus minister. And
5:12
I said, what's a campus minister? So she explained
5:16
that to me. This was after I got a degree in
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religious education from Morehouse School of
5:26
Religion. So I started hiding that in my heart.
5:31
What is a campus minister? So anyway, to make
5:35
a longer story shorter, I ended up with persons
5:42
from a Catholic university here in town receiving
5:47
a job announcement for a campus minister. It
5:51
was a Catholic campus. And they left church and
5:56
brought it and met me in the parking lot of my
6:00
church because they felt this sounds just like
6:03
Trinette. And so they gave that to me, thus the
6:08
connection to campus ministry. While I was in
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undergrad, not undergrad, but my master's program
6:18
in Atlanta, the preacher pastor who was the Reverend
6:24
Dr. Ralph David Abernathy and others would be
6:28
preaching. And I just wanted to enjoy. the sermon.
6:34
But instead, my spirit was saying, wow, I would
6:41
have gone that direction, or I would have taken
6:45
that a little bit deeper. And so I didn't get
6:49
much from the preaching because I was fixing
6:51
the preaching and weaving my own spirit into
6:55
it. That's where I started with dreams. Then
7:00
I called them nightmares because I'd wake up
7:04
in the middle of the night sweating because I'm
7:07
in front of crowds and larger crowds preaching.
7:12
And I examined that and would say, no, I didn't
7:16
come down here as a preacher. Because then, even
7:20
though 1979, because I graduated in 81, women
7:27
going into ministry and preaching was... Very
7:30
much not. So I was going there for Christian
7:35
education. Well, the way I then accepted it was
7:40
saying, OK, God, if this is for me, then I'll
7:46
say yes and show me what to do. And of course,
7:51
Dr. Abernathy was very supportive. And I came
7:56
back home to my church. for a conversation with
8:01
my pastor who was not in favor of women preaching.
8:07
Very in favor of me going down for Christianity.
8:10
He even drove me there. Maybe it was to just
8:13
get me out of Milwaukee. But no. So at any rate,
8:20
that's the way I connected with preaching over
8:23
time. And so, you know, our custom is in the
8:28
Baptist tradition, is to do a trial sermon. And
8:32
people are there, and you're judged on how you
8:36
did, and then you get licensed. You have to be
8:38
licensed first before you're ordained. So just
8:43
after graduation, I was licensed for preaching.
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I said yes. When I said yes, those dreams stopped.
8:52
I could sleep at night. And I was at peace when
8:58
I said yes. Rationale was preaching is an extension
9:04
of teaching, so you're still doing teaching.
9:08
And so as you ask my relationship and how I discovered
9:13
it or it discovered me, it was pursuing me the
9:17
whole time. That's the path and the way it went
9:21
for me as a woman, particularly in the Black
9:27
Baptist Church. That was not, didn't have a lot
9:31
of models and I was not openly recruiting women
9:35
and or even accepting. So that's my path. Thanks
9:43
for sharing. And tell us a little bit about who,
9:47
you know, you have generally preached to, both
9:50
the context for this sermon we're going to hear,
9:52
but who God, you know, you're a guest preacher
9:55
for the one we're listening to today. But in
9:58
your experience, who are the people God has called
10:00
you to preach to? What are they like? Right.
10:04
I understood from seminary that prophets had
10:09
geographical calls where they were from the north
10:13
but were called to prophesy in the south or vice
10:16
versa, or from the north and prophesied right
10:19
there in their home regions. So at any rate,
10:24
I went back to... Atlanta and did my trial sermon
10:29
and was licensed there by Reverend Abernathy.
10:35
It became an extension of my teaching, so I didn't
10:39
initially preach a lot when I returned to Milwaukee,
10:43
except that shortly after I was licensed and
10:47
then a few months later ordained, the church
10:52
and the pastor took parted ways, and the church
10:59
had no one to fall back on except me. Like, hey,
11:03
it's me. But my people were, I knew, going to
11:08
be my cultural context. So I went to Morehouse
11:14
School of Religion in Atlanta at ITC specifically
11:19
to prepare for ministry in the Black church.
11:23
And that's why my... Preaching was rooted and
11:26
grounded there too. However, I was put on staff
11:30
here in our region in Wisconsin. And by virtue
11:36
of being on staff, we did deputations. And so
11:40
churches all around Wisconsin could request me
11:45
to preach. So now, mind you, those were white
11:48
churches. Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm like... Okay.
11:55
God, you got tricks. You know, I prepared for
12:00
a Black context. But I'm getting most of my preaching
12:04
and invites from white churches. And primarily
12:09
because I was on staff with the region. But then
12:13
it became, wow, she's a good preacher. And I
12:18
had to learn how to adapt to preaching cross
12:22
-culturally. And I didn't want to be anything
12:26
other than myself. But I had to study and to
12:30
know, well, what's the context here? What are
12:33
these sisters and brothers working through, struggling
12:39
with? And how can I get that word and bring it
12:44
to them? And oftentimes they would say, it's
12:48
like you knew us. I said, well, one way I do,
12:52
because. You know, we don't have a lot of diversity
12:55
at that time. And I got my doctorate degree at
13:02
a white, predominantly white seminary. And also,
13:08
you know, I was not unfamiliar, but preaching,
13:11
I had to learn and use each context newly so
13:18
that I might know the spirit of the people. the
13:23
needs of the people. And so that's how my contact
13:29
and context was developed. So I was multicultural
13:35
cross -cultural in that sense. And my call to
13:40
the university here was to be the campus minister
13:43
for multicultural relations, which Catholic school,
13:48
Baptist preacher. They did not want another Catholic.
13:54
And so they were very happy to have me come on
13:58
board in my own skin. Well, I imagine having
14:05
to navigate that many different contexts so early
14:07
on in your preaching ministry was probably pretty
14:10
difficult. But what an invaluable learning experience
14:13
that I'm sure has probably shaped and informed
14:15
your preaching ever since then. It sounds like
14:20
you do a really good job, especially as a guest
14:23
preacher, of thinking through your congregations
14:26
and the people that you're preaching to. What
14:29
other preparation do you do for sermons? What
14:33
does your sermon prep process typically look
14:35
like? Right. So hopefully it's not one of those
14:40
Saturday calls that says, you know, we are in
14:44
need of a preacher. The pastor is sick. can you
14:48
come? That doesn't leave much time, but generally
14:52
that kind of call is in the city, and I already
14:56
have some familiarity. But given the time, the
15:01
training that I received having been at the ITC,
15:10
the Interdenominational Theological Center in
15:12
Atlanta, through Morehouse School of Religion,
15:17
and that homiletics program. So it was based
15:22
in liberation theology and black theology, as
15:30
well as learning about the preaching from persons
15:37
like Gardner C. Taylor and Samuel Proctor, Martin
15:43
Luther King Jr., and others. I haven't paid very
15:49
close attention, though at that time I was not.
15:53
I took all the classes that were prepared ministers
15:57
with the MDiv degree because I graduated with
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a Master's of Religious Education. So I took
16:05
the MDiv and those courses to be prepared. So
16:11
what became of my preparation was Hearing these
16:16
things, that one, you don't wait till Saturday
16:20
night or Saturday to start trying to beg God
16:26
for something. Given the time, take at least
16:31
a month, given the time that you might be given.
16:35
If it's something different than that, then how
16:37
do you prepare? You're always preparing for preaching.
16:41
You're always collecting. stories, news clippings,
16:47
magazine articles, listening to the news, knowing
16:51
what's going on in a variety of contexts, having
16:56
a notebook of sermon starters or topics or themes,
17:02
scriptures that are brought to you by the Spirit.
17:06
And you go, oh, that's a nice scripture, right?
17:09
To preach. Take note of that and build on to
17:15
it as time goes, because God will send you more
17:18
than a title, more than a text. We'll begin to
17:22
fill that in for you. So you're always ready.
17:26
And there are those times when all I would need
17:29
to take is my notebook, if it's that urgent and
17:33
that short of a notice. But that's part of the
17:36
preparations, giving it the time. But having
17:39
multiple resources you're drawing from. Philosophical,
17:43
political, social, scientific, theological, scriptural,
17:48
human behaviors, what's going on culturally,
17:52
what's going on in a particular city or wherever.
17:56
Drawing all that together and really it's sitting
17:59
with that. Listening, feeling, hearing, seeing.
18:06
So I could see something that ordinarily, if
18:09
I wasn't open to receiving, I probably would
18:13
pass it by. But being open for that period of
18:18
time, I could see. And I'd take note of what
18:21
I saw. Or hear. Hear it in a song. Maybe even
18:27
an R &B or a pop song. Because that's the culture,
18:32
too. What are they singing about? What can I
18:35
learn from them? And take note of that. So you're
18:39
constantly drawing resources and notes and never
18:44
know when that's going to come together or be
18:47
called upon. Even if you're a regular preacher
18:50
every Sunday, especially if you're a regular
18:53
preacher every Sunday, have materials that are
18:57
months and months in advance. Sitting with those
19:03
things. What do you see? What do you hear? What
19:06
have you been asked to do? What it is that you're
19:09
doing that other people are doing or other people
19:12
are not doing? And so you're just drawing information
19:16
and resources. I think it was Sam Proctor who
19:20
said, either him or Gardner C. Taylor, who said
19:26
that you should always be preaching with the
19:29
Bible in one hand. And within the newspaper and
19:33
the next. So that the two, one informs the other.
19:39
And you're always then going to at least be relevant
19:44
and at least connect. And it's really the people
19:49
in the pew. Who can you see before you see them?
19:54
Who may be there? Research the church. Of course,
19:58
then we didn't have access to websites and such.
20:02
Now that we do, we can really do some research
20:05
on the church. What are the activities and programs
20:08
they're supposed to do? What's in their mission
20:10
statement? Who's on their staff? It didn't matter
20:15
the size of the congregation, but those are the
20:19
ways in which I prepare for preaching, and I
20:23
sit with it before I start writing anything.
20:27
And I may start with having been given a title,
20:30
a scripture. And then the rest comes through
20:36
the practicum that you get in homiletics. You
20:40
know, you have your thesis, your beginning. You
20:43
have your, I had Dr. in seminary morals, religion,
20:52
Isaac Clark. And he always said, you have your
20:56
what, how, when, and why. And so you start with
21:00
the what. And you then move to a how. And he
21:03
really made you structured. And so you did that
21:10
practice. Mostly, it got you familiar with an
21:13
appropriate flow that people can follow. And
21:18
it works. So you can tell. He was a three -point
21:22
man, you know. You have your three points. You
21:26
do your conclusion. You do your introduction.
21:29
You have that whole framework, and you had to
21:31
follow that. And you can tell when there was
21:36
an Isaac Clark student who was preaching, even
21:41
20 years later. You go, hey, you went to ITC.
21:46
Yeah. You had Isaac Clark, didn't you? I could
21:49
tell. Because if you stuck to that, and he said,
21:53
if you stick to it, you'll be fine. If you deter
21:57
from it, you're still going to be fine because
22:00
you're going to have that roadmap. But it's not
22:04
all here. It's also heart. So he said, Dr. Clark,
22:09
you either know that you're preaching to the
22:12
head, something for them to know, to the heart.
22:18
something for them to feel to the hands, something
22:23
for them to do. And so you make that decision.
22:27
Is this a head message, a heart message, or a
22:33
do -something message? And always have an application
22:37
at the end. So, you know, you decide that, and
22:42
that too directs your development of your son.
22:48
Oh, that's gold. That's good stuff there. Well,
22:51
I want to turn our attention to this specific
22:54
message that you preached. Sure. And early in
22:57
this sermon, you kind of set the context of where
23:00
you are, when you are, and you are preaching
23:02
within International Women's Month. And with
23:05
that in mind, you begin to reveal your initial
23:07
theme. And so I want to share that clip. This
23:12
morning is International... Women's Month. My
23:17
presence is here because of that event, this
23:21
occurrence. And so the women here have a theme,
23:25
accelerate action. Accelerating action. And to
23:31
that, the Lord has placed on my heart to speak
23:34
and share with us about how we respond with and
23:39
to one another. And the responsibility that we
23:43
have for one another it seems like today everybody
23:47
looking out for themselves There is somebody
23:54
in the White House who's only looking out for
24:00
himself and someone else who's working with him
24:04
so that it is even more important for us to learn
24:08
right now like our foreparents did in the past.
24:12
We can't look out just for ourselves. We've got
24:16
to look out for each other. Like you said, there's
24:19
the newspaper there and the scripture. History
24:22
is all tied up right there in your intro. Why
24:24
did you think you needed to start with this need
24:28
to look out for one another for this message?
24:32
Well, primarily there were three things that
24:34
fed into pondering that, to discerning what this
24:40
focus would be. And that was really International
24:44
Women's Day. And they were real clear on that's
24:48
the cause. that they're asking me to come for.
24:55
And then the other is a time where we're trying
25:02
to figure out in our communities, personally,
25:08
what's going on? What's going on? And really,
25:14
I'm working on a project. with the Black Caucus
25:19
in American Baptists. We're calling it Facing
25:23
Forward. But what we're looking at is how much
25:29
we must as Black church be prepared and we have
25:38
been blessed with the resources and the expertise
25:41
to do for ourselves. No longer looking to get
25:47
funding necessarily, because you know how the
25:50
funding is being tinkered with. That was a path
25:54
of the past. No longer looking necessarily to
25:59
be any agency's priority for our community needs.
26:04
That might have been another thing of the past.
26:09
So as we face forward, what do we have after
26:14
all these years? 100 years, my church celebrated
26:19
75, but my former church is like 128 years old
26:27
or more. The oldest church, Black Baptist Church
26:31
in the city of Milwaukee. So Anne noticed to
26:35
have teachers, school administrators, mayors,
26:40
judges, etc. We've got the resources. We have
26:45
the resources now. We need to turn inward instead
26:50
of looking outward for our help. Turning inward.
26:56
Our help is in our hands. It's like God said
26:59
to Moses with all that water he has to cross,
27:05
what's in your hand? It's like sticks. Yeah.
27:11
Use your sticks. And so it's that kind of time,
27:16
I think, of what's in our hands that we can deliver
27:21
ourselves. We can deliver for ourselves, resource
27:25
ourselves when we learn to work collectively
27:29
and connectedly. So that's really, I just gave
27:33
you a brief rundown on what the American Baptist
27:36
National Black Caucus is looking at. It's time
27:40
for us to resource ourselves. And so that's how
27:46
that part developed its time. Yeah. I love that.
27:54
And I love that you're thinking very much about
27:58
not just the people that you're preaching to,
28:00
but also the history of people who've come before
28:04
you and maybe the people coming after you. sermon
28:09
title that you chose for this, Lifting As We
28:11
Climb, is itself an homage to Mary Church Terrell,
28:15
and you talk about that a little bit in your
28:17
message, but I love that you're borrowing or
28:20
building upon some of these familiar phrases
28:22
or people from history, and that that is a part
28:26
of looking out for one another, lifting one another.
28:29
Why did you think that it was important to keep
28:32
the voices or the influences from history in
28:35
mind while you're preaching in the present? Right.
28:38
So oftentimes in the Black church and in the
28:43
context, our preaching is not just preaching,
28:46
it's teaching as well. And it's important now,
28:51
even more so, that we continue promoting and
28:57
passing on the history of our path, our journey,
29:01
what we've done and who's been our leaders. and
29:06
whose shoulders we stand on, and how they were
29:09
determined to bring about another generation
29:14
or teaching young people or doing their work
29:19
in such a way that they could be an example of
29:23
how things can get done transformatively in this
29:28
country. So it's even more important with the
29:31
banning of books, with the DEI. thing going on
29:36
with schools that even colleges and universities
29:41
wanting to touch the curriculum, erasing from
29:46
websites the accomplishments in the military,
29:51
erasing other things. Every day there's a list
29:55
of folks who were historic taken away from websites.
30:00
You can't even do research on the web and trust
30:04
it anymore. Because it's gone. We have to be
30:08
the conveyors of our own story, of our own history,
30:13
and let our young people know the oral tradition
30:18
is back. We went from the oral tradition to the
30:22
written tradition. And now that oral tradition
30:27
has returned. And we can't just not do. We've
30:33
got to become that. And write more of our own
30:38
books. Turn our churches back into the learning
30:45
places, not just of things religious and spiritual,
30:48
but also cultural and our own historical developments
30:53
and how we got here. We got to take that back.
30:57
We once trusted schools. We started schools,
31:01
etc. And now we're looking at our summer programs
31:05
and saying, okay, it's not just fun and games
31:09
anymore. It's not just doing and completing an
31:13
art project. We've got to get back to freedom
31:15
schools. We've got to get back to teaching our
31:20
young children history, their history, and requiring
31:25
of them that they begin to think about themselves.
31:31
and locate themselves somewhere in the now and
31:36
in the future based upon someone in the past,
31:41
someone current, and knowing and finding their
31:45
own purpose at heart and passion. So I think
31:49
that's becoming more and more important for us
31:52
in our preaching. Wonderful and challenging.
32:00
As you're talking about what this looks like
32:01
to lift while we climb, this image you have throughout
32:05
the sermon, I want to look specifically at a
32:08
story that you share from your own life to illustrate
32:11
that. Okay. that were established was to keep
32:19
us down. But now Big Mama and other Big Mamas
32:23
and A .T .s and my moms and all of that decided,
32:26
no, not my kids. Not my children. And we were
32:29
always told that if nothing else was going to
32:32
be done, we were going to go to college. That's
32:35
what we grew up in. We were going to go to college.
32:39
And for me, growing up here, going to Riverside
32:42
High School in 1970, Yeah. 1971. My homeroom
32:54
teacher, Miss Patty, I'll never forget her name,
32:57
at Riverside High School sat me down next to
33:00
her desk. And on the back of the wall was everybody
33:04
who was on the honor roll. And Miss Patty had
33:07
a word for me. Miss Patty said, Trinette, here's
33:11
what I think you should do with your life. What
33:14
I think you should do is just What you should
33:17
do is just get married, have some children, some
33:21
babies, actually, you should say. Have some babies.
33:24
Get a good job and just work. Don't bother yourself.
33:28
Don't frustrate yourself trying to go to college.
33:31
That's not for you. And because mom and them,
33:35
because mom and them always sold me and my kind.
33:42
Yes, yes. At Calvary Baptist Church, when we
33:46
grew up, that we were going to go on to college.
33:50
When Miss Patty said, you don't have to try to
33:54
do that. And my name was on the wall. I've been
34:00
there for four years. I looked at Miss Patty.
34:05
And I said to Miss Patty, my mama said. My mama
34:10
said. Thank you, Miss Patty. I'm going to college.
34:26
Amen, amen, amen. Amen, amen. You see, we've
34:31
got to live. and plant a seed inside a young
34:36
person that they can have something to hold on
34:39
to when the doubters come up against them. Those
34:44
who try to tell them where to go in their lives
34:46
come to them. We've got to let them know inside
34:49
who they are and who they are and who they're
34:54
going to be. Amen. I love how that does exactly
35:00
what you were just telling us about, you know,
35:02
of how we can innovate ways to give a different
35:08
story to those in our community to lift as we
35:13
climb. You know, we haven't even gotten to the
35:15
Ruth text in your sermon yet, and you've set
35:17
this story up. Tell us a little bit about why
35:20
you wanted to lead with a story like this before
35:23
we even get into the text to illustrate where
35:26
you're going. Yeah, so some things drop into
35:32
your, the spirit drops into your spirit. And
35:36
so you could look at my manuscript. Half of what
35:41
I ended up preaching, you won't find in my manuscript
35:47
for that sermon. Because there's preparation.
35:55
Because you're prepared, you can rely on what
36:00
the Spirit is doing in you on the spot as you're
36:05
delivering. The ways in which the Spirit will
36:08
make connections that you didn't have. I mean,
36:11
my intro was not that. And it wasn't that long
36:16
of an intro either. However... I did start with
36:24
the lifting as we climb poem much earlier on.
36:28
And the discussion of Mary Church Terrell, because
36:33
the church was small size church. And I didn't
36:41
know, you know, the demographics. I didn't want
36:46
to make false assumptions about the demographics.
36:50
And there was a pretty good spread of age groupings.
36:56
And so you want to both incorporate and give
37:01
honor to the elders who are there, don't want
37:06
to preach and leave them out of any of your context.
37:10
And then there are those probably in my, in the
37:15
40s, well, not my generation, but in the 40s,
37:18
30s. up to 50 who are there and maybe are paraprofessionals
37:24
or professionals. And so you want to meet them
37:28
at a level. And then there was my generation,
37:34
I almost said 60s, 70s. And I can understand
37:41
and know where they are and then beyond. And
37:46
then there are, they left the youth and the children
37:49
there as well. Some churches do the children's
37:52
church thing. They didn't do that. So seeing
37:56
their presence, you want to engage them as well.
38:01
So it's kind of when the Black church gets together
38:04
for worship, I call it, it's kind of another
38:08
Pentecostal moment that you have one message,
38:13
but... they've got to hear it with their own
38:18
ears and allow the spirit to do the interpreting
38:22
so that when they go away they heard something
38:25
that they may feel was directed for them. So
38:31
I needed to draw people in to the main theme
38:38
of accelerating action. Because, well, that theme
38:48
I struggled with, what does that mean? Accelerating
38:53
action. And so I dealt with action and being
38:57
engaged. And I started with an example. Who could
39:05
have done better action in her length of time
39:09
on earth than Mary Church Terrell? And I knew
39:13
that there were older people because we had a
39:17
married church, Terrell House. And they did call
39:20
us as teen girls and preteens to activities there.
39:25
And they did train us and teach us. And I knew
39:29
I tapped that group. And then hearing there was
39:33
a program for younger people, I would tap the
39:38
teens who were there. And so that's how. And
39:41
starting with Mary Church Terrell, with the lifting
39:45
as you climb, knowing that in her life, she became
39:50
this mega woman, M -E -G -A, to be the founder
40:00
of such organizations and be a help with founding
40:07
such monumental organizations. would give a good
40:11
example. And then how to lead that into what's
40:16
going on with Naomi and Ruth. Not so much with
40:22
Orpah, because she made a different choice. But
40:28
how do you get to Naomi and Ruth? And God gave
40:33
that to me as a path, both for what happened
40:37
for us. In our past, what did people sacrifice
40:43
and do, how they were committed to bringing others
40:49
along? Because having graduated as their first
40:54
graduate degree and such, like Martin Luther
40:59
King Jr., they offered him a teaching job at
41:02
Boston U. But no, he didn't want to be a professor.
41:06
He solved differently. for him and his community
41:10
and ministry. So at any rate, that's a path that
41:17
came together and led into then the text about
41:23
Ruth and Naomi and Orp. You know, the best I
41:29
can say is that was the leading of the spirit
41:32
for me. And there are times you need... to let
41:36
yourself be open to it and not know where you're
41:42
going to go from there. But if you rely on the
41:47
Spirit and are prayed, then it works. And so
41:53
that whole way of the delivery, that way, not
41:57
starting with the text. So that's another homiletic
42:00
teaching for the seminary. Sometimes you start
42:04
text -driven. And sometimes it's topic driven
42:08
or it can be contextual driven. This wasn't text
42:15
driven for me. You then jump into that text of
42:19
Ruth. And one of the things that struck me about
42:22
it is the way that you read that text. It was
42:24
so alive. And you're making, almost making jokes
42:28
with the ways that you're reading the text. You're
42:30
pulling things out of it. and the congregations
42:34
reacting to it. I had a professor of the Hebrew
42:37
Bible, and she would have us read the text aloud
42:39
at the beginning of whatever we were studying,
42:42
and she would stop you if you were not reading
42:44
it with enough emotion, if you were not making
42:46
it come alive. I'm very much in debt to Dr. Nunn
42:51
and the way that she shaped me. But how did you
42:54
develop your way of reading the text with emotion
42:57
and embodiment? Because even in the reading,
43:02
it really felt like you were preaching. So tell
43:05
us about how you developed that skill. Right,
43:08
right. Yeah, I think it developed in me. So initially,
43:14
early on, you know, when you're just reading
43:17
scripture, you're just kind of reading it. And
43:21
it comes across like you're just reading it.
43:25
And you move from that to delivering it, right?
43:31
And then it's doing it in a performative way
43:36
that actually draws people. And they can see
43:42
themselves in the setting. You can feel yourself
43:45
speaking out of that setting. So it wasn't always
43:51
like that. I was benefited by... being on staff
44:01
at a Catholic university and attending Mass or
44:07
the prayer times and taking note at the way they
44:14
would read and deliver Scripture. And I was taken
44:20
aback by it because, you know, they did it in
44:25
such a way as to be interpretive. of the scripture
44:30
and not just reading, to deliver it in such a
44:37
way that people get a feeling, get a meaning.
44:43
And I said, wow, we don't do that well at all.
44:49
Sometimes people try to preach the scripture
44:52
and that's inappropriate. You don't preach the
44:55
scripture, you deliver the reading of the scripture.
44:59
So I gained a lot. I was with that school for
45:02
23 years. That was almost the bulk of my ministry
45:06
work. So from the priests and from others, I
45:11
listened carefully and was impacted to note how
45:16
to deliver the reading of scripture. They called
45:22
it proclaiming. The word or proclaiming the scripture.
45:28
And we think proclaiming is preaching. They would
45:33
proclaim the scripture, male or female. They
45:38
knew how to bring it. And I wanted to do that.
45:41
So I prayed for that gift. I understood and I
45:45
talked with friends and colleagues about that.
45:49
And many of them were trained at the seminary
45:52
here or somewhere. And there's one particular
45:57
friend of mine who would, that was one of the
46:00
things she would do for mass or prayer services.
46:06
So I followed her and then began to develop that.
46:12
Some would say, Trinette, you're just theatrical
46:15
anyway. You're a frustrated non -actor. If you
46:22
could. you would have been an actor. And you
46:27
could probably tell that some from my delivery
46:29
of that sermon, which had all kinds of antics
46:33
in it that I did not plan or think about, but
46:37
just living and being out loud with myself. That's
46:43
how it came about. And I had to free myself to
46:47
not be concerned about any criticism or judgment
46:51
because That obviously was the delivery style
46:56
for that context. Would that go everywhere or
47:01
anywhere? No. But in terms of proclaiming the
47:08
word or delivering the scripture that way, I
47:12
gained from the way Catholics learn and do read
47:17
and deliver scripture. And I love that your personality
47:21
comes forth in it, too. I think it was Philip
47:23
Brooks who said preaching is truth wrapped in
47:27
personality. And there's something to that. Good
47:30
one. Good one. Yeah, I really love that. And
47:34
I had a preaching professor once who our sermon
47:39
number one was just reading scripture. So we
47:42
weren't even bringing anything new maybe to it.
47:44
But that one of the first lessons you could learn
47:47
as a preacher is that. Scripture itself is the
47:50
sermon, and I really hear that in what you're
47:53
preaching. You do a little bit of work to talk
47:57
about what the book of Ruth is about. You talk
48:00
about how it is a book of loyalty, about being
48:03
committed, about understanding one another, and
48:07
that connection. Sometimes comes in these unexpected
48:10
places, like in the story of these women who
48:13
don't share the same culture or ethnicity or
48:16
religion, and yet we see them being deeply committed
48:19
to one another. So why did you feel like it was
48:22
important to point out kind of the differences
48:26
maybe that these women are dealing with, but
48:30
also emphasizing their connection, especially,
48:32
you know, considering this theme of lifting together?
48:37
part obvious that you can't assume that people
48:43
understand or know the Book of Ruth. So you have
48:47
to give some background to that, some context
48:50
to the book and the writing and what's going
48:55
on in this story. You know, there's a reason
48:59
it's there and positioned where it is. So what's
49:04
going on there? And so that's why I started out
49:08
with, so what about this Book of Ruth? What do
49:14
we know about it? And what's going on? And so
49:18
you have to bring them into the story. Even though
49:20
I started with the first chapter and went to
49:24
1 through 18, that's a very important part of
49:29
getting the rest of what might be in the Book
49:33
of Ruth, but what's going on. right then and
49:36
there. And to note, of course, the older people
49:40
are more familiar with it than the younger, like
49:47
I was saying, the 50s and younger. And so I wanted
49:51
to be certain, again, it's that Pentecostal moment
49:54
that people could hear it through their own ears
49:58
and understand it and note what it's about. And
50:05
so that's what was going on. But in terms of
50:08
the cross -cultural piece, we rarely deal with
50:12
a sense of cross -cultural when we talk about
50:17
scripture or stories in the scripture. We rarely
50:21
only talk about were they Jew or were they Gentile,
50:25
right? And there's more cultures than that to
50:32
draw upon. You know, we'd go to Roman culture,
50:35
we'd go to, you know, etc. And part of my doctoral
50:39
work I did was building a sense of African spirituality
50:46
for the African American church here in the U
50:50
.S. And one of the sections that I researched
50:54
was, is there such a thing as a cultural spirituality?
51:02
And in my research, I found that, yes, even the
51:06
Bible substantiates that there is such a thing
51:11
as a cultural spirituality. And so with that,
51:16
because I won't go on into my doctoral work,
51:20
but just say that, yes, if that's so, and if
51:25
Naomi and now Ruth. are of different cultures,
51:31
how are they going to blend and mix together?
51:36
And they would be cross -cultural. One of them
51:41
is going to a place they've never been before.
51:45
And so how does that work? How does she commit
51:49
so greatly and deeply? What kind of relationship
51:54
was built on their road back? which was not a
51:58
healing process. You know how it goes. Because
52:03
I'm bitter. So there was not healing on the way
52:06
back. So, you know, if I were to take this story
52:11
again, turn it into a series, I would ask the
52:15
question, with the two of them on the road going
52:18
back, and healing hadn't occurred because she
52:22
returned home yet bitter. That's what she said.
52:28
Don't call me Naomi, which meant. I think it's
52:38
sweet, right? Yes, yes. Sweet, sweet one. Call
52:45
me Mira, for I am bitter. So what did not happen
52:50
on the road from where they were? to going back
52:56
to the home of Naomi, that she didn't find the
53:03
presence of a daughter -in -law who could have
53:06
gone back to her own people, but was committed
53:10
to her, that that was not healing for her. That
53:14
could be sermon number two. But that's how those
53:19
build up. Wow. Yeah. Especially thinking about
53:25
some cross -cultural insights and intersectional
53:30
insights. I want to listen to another clip about
53:32
the way you illustrated this idea of lifting
53:34
while we climb. But the husbands died. Now the
53:40
thing that we know about the idea of presumed
53:44
value and worth. The idea of a woman in that
53:49
day. Her value and her worth was only as good.
53:53
As a husband. As a husband. If she had a husband,
53:58
she had some value. Some value, regardless of
54:02
the value. As some of us follow, I got a husband.
54:09
He may not be worth much, but he is worth. I
54:14
got that much. I got a husband, though. Y 'all
54:18
know somebody said, but I got a husband, though.
54:21
And that's what these two young women brought.
54:24
They're like, I got a husband, though. They only
54:27
had a husband. But he died. Which left her with
54:33
little value. Except that she had two sons. And
54:37
she said, well, at least I got my two sons. That
54:40
gave her some value. But then two sons died.
54:45
And they said, what? No daddy. Worth nothing.
54:51
You say, how can that be? Well, unfortunately,
54:54
that's the way it was back in that day. And some
54:58
of us think that's the way it is today. No, he
55:02
might not be much, but he's mine. I know. I know.
55:09
But he's mine. My boys can't do too much for
55:15
me, but they're my boys. I know. I know. I know.
55:22
I know. Her value because she was a person was
55:27
of little value. Because she was a woman was
55:31
of little value at that time. I want to say it
55:35
to my sisters. I love this section. I recently
56:01
preached on Ruth, you know, and lots of times
56:04
when preaching about the context and culture
56:06
of the ancient world. We have to talk about how
56:09
the ancient world viewed women. You have been
56:13
a pioneer and an advocate for women in ministry
56:15
throughout your career. And the way that you
56:17
preached this part, I sure couldn't preach it.
56:21
There's insight in your life and your experience
56:24
as a black woman that you bring to this story
56:25
that those who have not heard Ruth preached by
56:29
a womanist or other women of color, they are
56:31
missing out on. So I want to hear from you just
56:35
how your womanism shapes your proclamation. And
56:39
if, because you didn't have models growing up
56:43
of people that looked like you or had your experience
56:46
in the pulpit, was it a challenge for you to
56:49
discover that womanist voice of your own to bring
56:53
to the pulpit? I would not say that it was a
56:57
challenge. It was a learning, a yielding, I would
57:01
say. That I needed to allow, surrender, release
57:07
what I'd seen as models of preachers, which were
57:12
male, right? And some early women followed the
57:18
model they knew. And for me, I couldn't do that
57:25
anyway. And I followed what spirit. came through
57:32
me. Now, the woman in this work really was developed
57:38
and came about in the late 80s. And I had already,
57:44
in 1981, I'd graduated from seminary. So, and
57:50
Renita Jacqueline Grant was one of my professors
57:56
there at ITC. So that was all beginning and forming
58:02
for the Black woman's theological voice. And
58:08
for me, the way it came, I had to become aware
58:12
of it first, learn the distinction of what made
58:19
it womanist. And then from that point, look at
58:27
and study how women are shaped in the Bible,
58:32
are pictured and portrayed even in the Bible,
58:37
how that impacts how we are treated in culture,
58:42
in church even, and then what was the gift that
58:50
we brought or bring as Black women, mind you,
58:55
to the Black community. came along as an answer
59:00
to feminism, that we couldn't be feminists because
59:05
feminists' objective oft times was not community
59:10
building and it was competing with the men. It
59:18
was even denouncing or denying men to have their
59:25
role or voice. And so in that time of the 70s
59:32
and such, when feminism was coming about, feminist
59:37
theology then formed in the middle of that. And
59:41
it did not work for us. And womanism came along
59:46
and was being developed and understood that we
59:50
bring the entire community along. We're not against
59:54
our menfolk. We're not trying to bring them down
1:00:00
so we could rise. That we're in this together.
1:00:04
And if we can support and advance men as well
1:00:09
as we be supported and advanced. Because we have
1:00:15
families. We have a community to build. And we
1:00:19
have theology to understand. And so it was then.
1:00:24
that womanism evolved. And to understand that
1:00:30
and to use that gets developed in your need to
1:00:35
rethink even what we were taught in seminary.
1:00:41
And even right now, there's a critique going
1:00:44
on and a review of saying in our seminaries,
1:00:51
well, even in... HBCU Black seminaries, we learned
1:01:00
a lot. We had J .D. Otis Roberts and others,
1:01:06
James Cone and such, but we learned and needed
1:01:12
to know Buchner and other writers, but we're
1:01:17
finding how much of learning about them shaped
1:01:21
our theology. Where it was taught, we preached
1:01:26
it, we drew from it, but it wasn't helpful. And
1:01:30
so what's going on right now is a review and
1:01:32
critique of that. And along with that review
1:01:36
and critique is the growth and development now,
1:01:39
side to side, of womanism as well. And to understand
1:01:47
that and know who's a womanist and who isn't.
1:01:54
And we grow and develop. So that's how I think
1:01:59
I would respond to that. Because it's how you
1:02:03
see the Bible. You see it differently when you
1:02:07
see women doing different things than what we
1:02:12
thought they were doing. It's like, no, she wasn't
1:02:17
doing that. It's like, take the song of Mary.
1:02:22
I think that's in John 1 or something. And I
1:02:27
call it a song of revolution. Absolutely. Because
1:02:32
she wasn't just saying these things. She was
1:02:35
talking and singing about a revolution, but they
1:02:39
didn't catch it. Why? Because it came from Mary.
1:02:44
She's not talking about someone who's going to
1:02:48
come and overthrow, you know, the empire. She's
1:02:52
not talking about throwing the government off
1:02:56
his heels. She's just singing a song. How many
1:03:04
during my time, not my time, my culture's time
1:03:09
were in the fields? Just singing songs. Those
1:03:15
songs had real messages. We know the hidden messages
1:03:19
of the spirituals that they were calling out.
1:03:22
What time are we going to leave tomorrow morning?
1:03:26
Well, we're going to leave when the river's hand
1:03:29
strikes, you know. And they were singing it,
1:03:32
not speaking it. They didn't go to church to
1:03:35
hear it. They went to church to sing it and to
1:03:38
get the message out, you know. When is this going
1:03:42
to take place? When are we going to escape? What
1:03:45
route are we going to take? Well, when you see
1:03:47
the North Star high in the sky, just adjacent
1:03:52
from the moon, that's when. And so Salvo, the
1:03:59
drinking gourd, was a song saying, when you see
1:04:04
the Big Dipper, that's the night we're going.
1:04:10
to escape and the song is called follow the drinking
1:04:13
gourd so you know that's that kind of where i
1:04:19
place that song of mary right at the beginning
1:04:23
before they talk about you know who jesus's ancestors
1:04:28
and people are i love i love how your history
1:04:33
is informing your preaching and these different
1:04:37
voices that you're bringing into it. You mentioned
1:04:40
Mary Church Terrell at the beginning, and I'm
1:04:41
just thinking very much of her quote about speaking
1:04:45
to Black women and saying, like, the obstacles
1:04:47
you have to overcome are too. And that's not
1:04:51
the same as it is for white women. It's not the
1:04:53
same as it is for men. And certainly I hear that
1:04:56
coming out so much in your preaching and your
1:04:58
theological conviction. You share something really
1:05:02
personal in your sermon where you talk a little
1:05:04
bit about your experience with being diagnosed
1:05:08
with cancer. So I'd like to listen to that. Because
1:05:27
I'm a 10 year cancer survivor as well. And I
1:05:34
asked God, God, when I was diagnosed with cancer,
1:05:38
I'm not asking why me. I'm asking, what do you
1:05:43
want me to do with this? And he said, there's
1:05:48
a community that I want you. To minister to.
1:05:53
And you can't minister to them from the outside.
1:05:57
You have to be on the inside. You better know
1:06:01
what they feel. By feeling it yourself. You better
1:06:05
know what they go through. By going through it
1:06:08
yourself. I want you. That you are serving. Yeah,
1:06:25
when I was diagnosed in 2015 with multiple myeloma,
1:06:30
you know, for me, any type of cancer diagnosis
1:06:35
is a shock. It's like, okay. And some. Spiritualize
1:06:43
it. Some might take it in another path. But I've
1:06:50
always been an educator and a trainer. That's
1:06:55
been my ministry. And whether it was done through
1:06:59
preaching or really teaching or demonstrating,
1:07:05
that's been my ministry path. So my conversation
1:07:13
with God was not, why me? Why now? Why this?
1:07:18
But it really was, so now what are we going to
1:07:22
do with this? Because you set me in varying contexts
1:07:28
for ministry. And here I am now, I was 60 years
1:07:34
old. And how? at 60, and I had retired 12 years
1:07:47
now, 13 years now, so about 56, 57. And so I
1:07:54
was like, you must have a reason for this. Where
1:07:59
and what do you have for me to do out of this?
1:08:04
Learn and gain and share. So really, What I said
1:08:10
in the sermon was what I heard back in spirit
1:08:14
was, I need somebody to do ministry in that community.
1:08:21
Now, certainly there are people already ministering
1:08:26
to that community. But what I heard was, I need
1:08:30
someone to be there as a member of it, to know
1:08:35
what it's about, to feel what people feel. to
1:08:41
have to make choices and decisions that they
1:08:45
have to make, to stand with and to be able to
1:08:48
say words, like in this sermon, the Lord will
1:08:52
make a way somehow, and to trust me to make that
1:08:56
way for you. So I said yes to it. He called me
1:09:03
to another community. And it's a duel. because
1:09:08
there's the community with cancer, and then there's
1:09:13
the caregivers of the persons with cancer. And
1:09:19
I have ministered as much to the health care
1:09:24
providers, the techs, the nurses, the physicians,
1:09:30
just by encouraging them and hearing about their
1:09:36
lives. I go there and I listen while they're
1:09:39
giving me my treatment. They know that I can
1:09:42
listen. I pray with them. I counsel with them.
1:09:46
And I can do that freely. And I find acceptance.
1:09:51
I don't barge into anybody's life. Because the
1:09:57
ground was already set and ready for my arrival.
1:10:02
And that God was making me ready for this arrival.
1:10:07
So at diagnosis, I was given two to five years
1:10:11
prognosis. Two to five years. And I didn't focus
1:10:19
on the two to five. I focused on, so how and
1:10:23
what do you want me to do now? And that actually,
1:10:27
at the Frederick Hospital in Milwaukee here,
1:10:31
my techs and my nurses would begin to open and
1:10:36
share. other cancer patients outside of the hospital
1:10:41
in churches. I spoke of it openly and freely
1:10:45
because what came to me was of God, how would
1:10:51
they know if I don't tell them? How would they
1:10:58
know what you're doing for me and what you can
1:11:02
do for them if we keep it secret? I can't keep
1:11:06
it secret. That's not what you want me to do.
1:11:09
So that's why I talk so openly about it. And
1:11:13
each time I can get a call or text or an email
1:11:17
from someone who was just diagnosed with the
1:11:22
same cancer that I have, multiple myeloma, which
1:11:26
impacts Black women more greatly, that if there's
1:11:32
55 or 50 % women, 48 % will be Black women diagnosed
1:11:42
and classified. That was crucial. That said,
1:11:48
I need to get this word out. So there were groups
1:11:52
already formed through foundations to work precisely
1:11:57
on that issue. I joined up with them, signed
1:12:00
up, got the materials. began to become educated
1:12:05
myself. Little did I know there'd be friends
1:12:08
and acquaintances who would come to me and say,
1:12:13
I was just diagnosed. And or my sister was, or
1:12:19
my brother. And they are across the country.
1:12:22
So I'm relating not just locally, but nationally.
1:12:27
And I believe that's what God calls me to do
1:12:29
right now. And you got to be in it. Just like
1:12:33
life. You got to be in life if you're going to
1:12:37
minister to people who are in life. So you got
1:12:42
to be. And I think so. That has been helpful.
1:12:47
And I'm now 10 years going on 11. Wonderful.
1:12:51
It is a wonderful thing. Thanks for sharing.
1:12:55
I want to share one more clip. Because you talk
1:12:58
about some of this intense treatment that you
1:13:00
have gone through and even ways you're preaching
1:13:05
to your doctor. So let's take a look at that
1:13:08
one. of chemo that they have available for this
1:13:16
cancer. And now the doctor says we've run out.
1:13:20
We've run out. I told him, don't quit yet because
1:13:24
God is not going to help. God is going to help
1:13:27
you. When you don't quit, I want God to pick
1:13:31
up your strength. So please, be patient because
1:13:35
God is not going to help you. I told the doctor,
1:14:02
don't be discouraged. You're just this doctor.
1:14:45
When I got to that, I was, you know, flapping
1:14:49
in my office. When you made that turn from you're
1:14:52
just this doctor to I know a doctor. Yes, yes.
1:14:56
Yeah, and that word came about because about
1:15:00
a month or maybe two months ago, when I said
1:15:06
that she had said they've run out and things
1:15:11
are not responding anymore. And she wanted to
1:15:15
talk hospice. And that's where I was saying,
1:15:19
no, we're not ready. We're not ready for hospice.
1:15:24
I'll take palliative care because that helps
1:15:26
you manage your pain. But I told her, keep looking,
1:15:31
keep doing. You do what is yours to do. And I'm
1:15:36
going to do what mine. And I'm going to pray
1:15:39
to another doctor. And she went out the room.
1:15:45
crying because we've been together so long. She's
1:15:48
tried so hard and she just didn't want to give
1:15:52
me that message. Well, about a month or so later
1:15:55
when I had some other work done and my numbers
1:16:00
came down, it looked pretty good. She came in
1:16:06
with a different spirit, lighter, and she left
1:16:10
out with a light spirit. And felt good about
1:16:14
what had turned around. And so I wanted her to
1:16:20
know she does her part. And God will do God's
1:16:25
part. But we don't quit. We don't quit unless
1:16:29
God says quit. And he's not told me to quit yet.
1:16:35
Yeah. So what are you most proud of for this
1:16:41
sermon? Yeah, I think more so than the word pride
1:16:47
or proud of, I think inspired by. Because I tell
1:16:54
you, the bulk of what this sermon ended up being
1:17:03
recording and delivered is not what this says.
1:17:09
Some of it is right there. But a lot of it isn't.
1:17:14
And God gave the rest. And God gave the delivery
1:17:17
as well. And so you saw I was turning some pages.
1:17:23
But the pages I was turning were actual. I was
1:17:27
trying to really say, God, you want me to say
1:17:30
that or you got something else again? I am most
1:17:36
pleased with the way in which I released. my
1:17:43
spirit to hear and be led and trust what God
1:17:49
was doing on the spot, in the context, because
1:17:54
I didn't know this church and this church didn't
1:17:58
know me. But we know each other now. And I think
1:18:02
what I had prepared would have been a little
1:18:06
dull and too highbrow. The songs that... I recited
1:18:12
some of the scriptures and or sayings that I
1:18:18
recited. They're not in my manuscript. But that's
1:18:24
where God said, hit this one here. And I did.
1:18:28
And I knew the people would know. And that keeps
1:18:32
them called in that we are one. We're one people.
1:18:35
No matter who you are, Dr. McRae, we're one people.
1:18:39
You know? And so I'm most pleased and heartened
1:18:45
by the way my spirit coupled with God's spirit.
1:18:53
And we both worked together to bring this message
1:18:57
for these people at this time. And there was
1:19:02
a woman who came up to me after service who said
1:19:06
that she too was a cancer survivor. And others.
1:19:12
And others who had relatives who were just diagnosed.
1:19:16
So each time that, you know, we can be honest
1:19:21
and truthful with our own situation, there is
1:19:27
someone who knows someone who needed to hear
1:19:32
that and know this and be encouraged by it. So
1:19:40
that's why in my beginning, I said, and how will
1:19:45
they know if I don't tell them what you can do
1:19:50
for us? Okay. That's where I ended. So I've listened
1:19:59
to this over again because I get very entertained
1:20:02
by it. I'm like, wow. You know, was it that I
1:20:06
was sitting down? Was it because I had to? Two
1:20:09
oxycodones going. You know, it was crazy. And
1:20:15
I'm at some point in my life and ministry that
1:20:21
I don't have to pay attention to restraints or
1:20:24
feeling polished or any of all that stuff that
1:20:29
we feel we got to do coming up. You know, and
1:20:33
you get this wonderful introduction of this.
1:20:36
Reverend Dr. Trinette McRae, who was all these
1:20:40
things and that, you know? No, I mean, I'm just,
1:20:44
I'm a Trinette and I'm grateful and I live a
1:20:50
life just like you do. And my life is not always
1:20:54
going perfectly, but it's even in those challenging
1:20:59
times that I can bring hope, peace. and comfort
1:21:07
and that's where god is leading me and church
1:21:11
doesn't have to be stale a sermon doesn't have
1:21:13
to be cranky yeah when i watched this i didn't
1:21:19
i knew you were a guest preacher but i had just
1:21:21
assumed by your connection that that this was
1:21:23
a church you knew well so the spirit led you
1:21:27
and you responded in a beautiful way so thank
1:21:29
you for that praise god thank you We also asked
1:21:32
this question, which I feel silly asking after
1:21:34
a sermon like this, but is there anything you
1:21:37
would do differently if you were to redo it?
1:21:40
Any changes you would make? Yeah, no, because
1:21:44
what occurred, I couldn't have changed. You know,
1:21:47
much of what, you know, I followed an outline,
1:21:52
and so things fell in line the way they should
1:21:56
in order to be understandable. And then the rest,
1:22:01
spirit filling, dropped in. I wouldn't tell spirit,
1:22:04
now don't you do that again. Good idea. Yeah,
1:22:09
so no, this was beautiful. I've had people tell
1:22:12
me, friends tell me, they believe it was one
1:22:16
of my best sermons. So it goes on my list of
1:22:22
one of my best. I didn't know. You can't know.
1:22:27
And so, yeah. I love that. Why do you think that
1:22:34
preaching matters today? Why do you think it
1:22:37
makes a difference? Yeah. Yeah, so I think good
1:22:44
and what makes good preaching? Good preaching.
1:22:51
Honest preaching. I'll put it like that. Honest
1:22:56
preaching because we don't always. Tell the truth.
1:23:00
Tell our truth. Tell people the truth. It's so
1:23:06
needed because that's what people want to be
1:23:09
able to hear, know, and trust. There's so much
1:23:12
made -up stuff out there that they could get
1:23:15
in their day -to -day world. When they come to
1:23:17
church, they like to hear something, that they're
1:23:22
coming to a place that's healing, helping, and
1:23:25
hopeful. I didn't have that written down. I didn't
1:23:29
even have it in my head. But, you know, as preachers,
1:23:31
we go with the three points. And that if they
1:23:35
could come away with at least one of those things,
1:23:38
they've got something to take them through the
1:23:41
week or to give them an answer for the week they
1:23:44
just had. It's important today, I would hope,
1:23:50
because it's a place of trust. And we need places.
1:23:55
we could go to and trust what's going on. More
1:24:00
the sermon, yes, but the singing and the lyrics,
1:24:04
yes, and the response of the people around us
1:24:07
that we're communing with, that we could go to
1:24:12
that place and count on it. I know a place I
1:24:16
can go to on a Sunday and count on it that come
1:24:21
Monday, it'll be all right. I'd be ready for
1:24:25
it again, but I might have better ammunition
1:24:28
and shield to hold me through those days. I think
1:24:36
that's important. And I think the word itself,
1:24:39
the gospel, the Bible, interpreted properly,
1:24:44
delivered contextually, and applied to what's
1:24:52
going on. with us in this world, in our families,
1:24:59
is something that is much needed. And it's our
1:25:06
accountability and responsibility to not back
1:25:10
away. So just like when I opened up and said,
1:25:13
well, there is a guy in the White House. I didn't
1:25:18
have to say anything more because everybody knows.
1:25:21
Yeah, there's a spanker in the White House. You
1:25:26
know, so that way they know. Give me something
1:25:32
for that spanker in the White House. Reverend
1:25:37
Dr. Trinette McGrath, thank you for this time
1:25:41
and sharing your wisdom and your preaching with
1:25:44
us. It has been a blessing. Well, thank you,
1:25:47
Evan. I appreciate it. I appreciate having this
1:25:51
time with you and with Hannah. And gosh, bless
1:25:56
you on the work that you're doing. We hope you
1:26:02
enjoyed our conversation with Reverend Trinette
1:26:05
McRae. If you'd like to listen to Trinette's
1:26:08
full sermon or keep up with the work that she's
1:26:10
doing, you can follow her on the links posted
1:26:13
in the show notes. If you like this episode,
1:26:15
please share, subscribe, tell your friends. And
1:26:17
if you have questions for us or recommendations
1:26:19
for guests, you can email us at preacherhandshake
1:26:21
at gmail .com. In two weeks, we'll have another
1:26:25
episode and it will be our final episode of this
1:26:27
first season of Preacher Handshake. It has been
1:26:30
so much fun to get to do this. And thank you
1:26:33
for listening and participating and joining us
1:26:36
as we've been figuring this out. together we'll
1:26:39
be back in the fall with more preachers and more
1:26:41
sermons and for our last episode based on some
1:26:45
feedback we've gotten we're going to end the
1:26:47
season by talking about one of our own sermons
1:26:50
so we hope you check that out in two weeks and
1:26:53
then after that check out our next season that'll
1:26:57
be starting in the fall as always share subscribe
1:27:01
tell your friends and thanks for listening