Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 573. Unlocking the Power of Alignment Fundraising + Combatting Burnout - Mallory Erickson

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573. Unlocking the Power of Alignment Fundraising + Combatting Burnout - Mallory Erickson · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm John.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: And I'm Becky, and this is the we Are For Good podcast.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: So welcome to the good community.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: So let's get started.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Becky, you've got that certain smile.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, friends, you are here on the right day, because not only has our guest been on multiple times, she is a phone, a friend in life and business and somebody that we just like lean on and trust so much in this space.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: It's an honor because it's a big day for Mallory Erickson.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: She is back on the podcast, of course, but she's been a little busy since the last time we had her on the show.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: We're celebrating the launch of what the fundraising, the book, so we have a lot of backing up to do, right to get to this.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: But okay, if you don't know, mallory, I want to take a second to just create pause to, to introduce you to this incredible person that's really come into our world and change us for the better.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: She's an executive leadership coach.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: She's a development coach.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: She helps us all feel better, do better so we can raise more.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: This is very through line and the way she talks.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: So, if you go back in the podcast episodes, she's the first one that really introduced us to the power of like mindsets in our fundraising work.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Right, taking a pause to really assess how are we walking into this?
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: How are we feeling?
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: What's our body feeling in this moment, and it does change the way that we can show up.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: And so how does she show up in the world?
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: I mean in massive ways.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Just last, this year, she's coached over 60,000 fundraisers through her win-win framework.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: The Power Partners Formula is a course that really walks you through all of those pieces.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: And she's also launched the Alignment Fundraising Collective where she really pours into group coaching and just serving the full fundraiser from all sides of this.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: So this is somebody that not only has helped us power this community, given us vision for this community, but she serves and loves this sector deeply.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: So, mallory Erickson, it is always a delight to have you in our house.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me and for all your kind words, and it feels so meaningful and right to be with all of you on this episode the day after the book is, like, officially released into the wide world.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: It is a thing you can grab it today.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: We have been counting this down.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I want to give space we create moment at the top of the show to get to know the person, the human behind the work.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: And I mean, since you've shared your story before, like, tell us about life right now.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I mean you were sharing.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: It's a vulnerable place to put work into the world in this way, but you also, your family, has grown since the last time, probably a little bit.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: So catch us up to what's happening in life and tell us a little bit about where you're coming from today.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: You know, gosh, I think about that first episode we did together, I think in 2021, where we first started talking about some of the like mindset or coaching work that I was doing, and I feel like, you know, even though you all were so open and receptive to that at the time, in a lot of spaces in this sector, I kind of needed to bury the lead there, right and like and like, be like, no, like, I help people fundraise more, you know, from the right funders, which I do, but how do I do that?
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: Like, I do that by really helping them understand themselves, their organizations and their funders in totally different ways.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: And, um, and but I but I wasn't so, I don't know, I wasn't so I didn't lead with, like, the inner work in the way that I talked about my work, and that really has been a shift for me.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: Um, you know, over the last few years, but really over the last year, of like sort of owning the research that I've done.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: That's behind this book that shows the connection between how we fundraise and our stress and our burnout for nonprofits.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: And I had a conversation recently with a funder who was like, we do capacity building in two sections.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: We focus on sustainable fundraising and bottom line sustainability, and then we also focus on the wellness of the employees, and I was like what if I told you they were the same thing, the same.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: I think it's so normal for people to be like thinking about these things in these compartments, right, we think about, like, what we're doing on the one side and we think about how we're feeling or how we're doing on the other side, and I think what my work over the last year has really been deepening in the research and the writing of this book is like we cannot separate those things, and the moment that we do, we are actually holding our fundraising back in tremendous ways, we are burning out in huge ways and we are leading to this simultaneous decline in financial giving to the sector and the decline in and the staffing crisis, and those are not separate problems and the good news about them is that we can do better, we can feel better and do better at the same time, and so that actually gives me a lot of hope around our incentives for like really finally investing in in people and in wellness and in more holistic support for this sector.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: So the last year has been really refining that kind of argument for me while having my second daughter, which feels like bananas.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: I have all these photos that I'll share of like me writing this book with, like her sleeping on my chest or, like you know, like literally writing the book on my phone while she's like napping on me.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: And it seems a little bit wild to say like I rewrote the entire book when I was six weeks postpartum, but actually for anyone who's had a baby or has watched somebody go through that time, it is like a really isolating time in general and there was something about that bubble and that isolation that really allowed me to think through these problems in actually really focused and meaningful ways.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: So while some people might be like, oh I'm sorry you spent your postpartum time writing a book, for me it was actually a really sweet thing that I got to share with her and do with her and I feel really grateful for it.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: You are a wonder woman.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: I continue to say that over and over.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: I learn so much from you personally, professionally, and I want people who are listening because I think this conversation is coming at such a great time.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: We're about a week out from launching Impact Up.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: We're going to be talking about all these things.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: We're going to be talking about pause.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: We're going to be talking about perfectionism and burnout, and if you are someone, you hear those words and you think, ugh, I don't have time to pay.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: And you think, oh, um, I don't have time to pay attention to those.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Or, oh, I don't want to listen to that signal in my body.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Or, oh, it's not as important as me going into this meeting and closing this gift or sending this email.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: I want to tell you you will burn out and we need you.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: You are too dang important to us.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: We need you.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: You are too dang important to us.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: We need you.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: And you said a word and it was hope, mal, because I think it's easy for a lot of us to focus on what you call shiny object syndrome I know, in the book and all the things that we think we're supposed to be doing, and we don't prioritize ourself and what we're telling you right now is we want you to flip that belief system and start caring for yourself, start listening to these things, and so you have been researching this issue for years, and I'm talking about not just through qualitative, but neuroscience, through data and I want you to kind of talk to us about the problem that the book is really tackling, because you split it into two parts the problem and the solution.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: So talk to us first about the problem and like how did we get here to this state?
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Right now and I'm leaning in with my popcorn because I believe I am a part of this and so many of us are, so help us out.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: Hmm, I mean, look the system.
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: I think one of the things that I really want people to see in the book is nuance and be prepared for what the book is.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: Nuance Like we need to be able to hold multiple truths at once.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: Like we need to be able to say I did not create the system, that is the problem and I have a lot of agency in fixing it right.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: I think, like when we are in a stress state, we get into a lot of binary thinking and we deflect a lot and we were like, oh, it's either this or that, and the reality is we really need to hold the truth that it can be all the things.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: So I talk about the history of the nonprofit sector and how really, starting at the Gilded Age on with the development of tax law in the US, and how those things sort of have led to this underlying scarcity mindset around the sector.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: That, once again, is not our fault that that exists, but there are some like fundamental kind of scarcity beliefs built into the nonprofit sector and those beliefs and cultural norms around the sector have led to these transactional ways that we have been taught to fundraise.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: In the book I give five of them, but they might sound familiar, like looking at the Rolodex or feeling like a car salesperson or sort of like these different ways that we're trained to prioritize, to put money first, right To put money first in terms of how we think about these things, and there are a lot of different factors that contribute to scarcity mindset and transactional fundraising.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: There's stigma around money and the sector, there's sectorism, right and so in the book, like there are multiple times that I sort of try to toe that line, like there is, yes, is there real material scarcity in our sector?
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, many people are dealing with it personally.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: They're dealing with it every day in terms of, like, fulfilling their mission day in terms of fulfilling their mission.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: And scarcity mindset is not that.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: Scarcity mindset is an additional set of beliefs that layer on top of material scarcity that further inhibit our ability to actually address material scarcity issues.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: So we need to be able to hold those two truths at the same time to say I feel this and it makes sense, because here's what I'm experiencing every day, or here's what I've experienced throughout my life, and I recognize the ways in which my thoughts on top of that are creating limitations in my ability to solve the underlying problem, and so I sort of frame those scarcity beliefs, the transactional ways we've been taught to fundraise, up to say this is what has brought us to this critical tipping point of a staffing crisis and declines in financial giving to the nonprofit sector, because both of those things, in my opinion, are caused by these transactional ways we've been taught to fundraise that feel horrible to donors and feel horrible to us.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: And so in the following chapter I go into a lot more detail around those different transactional practices and stigma and all of those different pieces, and then in the next chapter, what I really talk about is how all of this relates to how we feel as fundraisers, and I talk about the difference between discomfort, dysregulation, chronic stress and burnout and the decline that we see from discomfort into burnout and what some of the primary causes are of that.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: I think one of the things that gets really complicated and this was so hard to write, this was so hard to figure out how to write honestly is like discomfort is not always bad, right, and I feel like sometimes we see things where it's like you know, only go where it feels good to go, and then you'll find alignment and it's like well, not really, because oftentimes our brain misfires, right, and so sometimes we experience discomfort or fear when we're actually trying to stay in alignment.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: But it would be a lot easier to people please, or it would be a lot easier to just do that thing really quickly, or it would feel a lot better to just check that box off my Monday board, even though that's not really my priority right.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: And so discomfort part of in the book I really talk about different forms of discomfort and then how discomfort that comes from transactional fundraising and misalignment is what ultimately leads us into more dysregulation, chronic stress and burnout, and that there are these five elements of fundraising that actually have been scientifically proven to increase chronic stress and burnout and those are rejection to increase chronic stress and burnout, and those are rejection, uncertainty, pressure, isolation and power dynamics.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: So all five of those things which are so common in fundraising have been scientifically proven to lead to more stress and burnout.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: And so we have to.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: We talk a lot about overwork in our sector and I do think rest is important and I do think, like we, over addressing overwork is important, but that is only one layer of this problem, like if we do not, if we do not address and have tools to deal with the rejection, the uncertainty, how pressure feels in our body, the power dynamics, isolation.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: If we don't deal with all of those things, even if we got everybody to stop overworking, we would still be seeing the burnout we're seeing today.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: I mean Mallory, wow yeah, there's just so much here.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Peace maker, I want to know, because I'm sitting in the discomfort of feeling seen.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that you called that out.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, as a peacemaker, I can tell you like I've grappled with that a lot this year, with trying to hold to a vision or your values when it is really uncomfortable, being okay with that and talking about it, and I don't know that it was always talked about.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know that, like, having these conversations were in the forefront, which is why I love you know what you've brought to the sector and, I think, to this space too, like a safety of that.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: But y'all, like, are you not just sitting here thinking, mallory, oh my gosh, I feel like you've like had such a huge unlock for us that this is why it does connect to the bigger things of like, maybe giving is declining and maybe we do have some responsibility, and just because we're held back in some of these areas, because we've not acknowledged that, man, this stuff is really hard to keep showing up for, especially in the middle of a global pandemic and all the crises, and you know things that are intersectional on on top of this work too.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: So I mean, we've talked a lot about the challenges.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: I want to get to the solution, because you have such a call out in your book of like, how do we move through this?
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Because we were acknowledging it, we're sitting with it.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: We realized it's okay to feel both these things at the same time.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Where do we go now?
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: What's the solution?
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: Okay, before we go to the solution, I'm going to tell you one more problem, please.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: I would not be an epi counter.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: Lay it all out on the table.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: But this is where I think, for me, like my mouth hit the floor and, as I say it out loud, I think a lot of people are probably going to be like, oh yeah, duh, but also not duh, because I don't think we're actually talking about it, which is that when we are in chronic stress states, so we talk about all the things that lead to that.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: Right, we're talking a lot about burnout.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: We're talking a lot about those things way more than we were a few years ago.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: A lot of thanks to you guys.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: I feel like you guys have really normalized that conversation, doing mental health week on here.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: You guys have done a lot, I think, to really inspire that conversation.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: One of the things that all this research led me to, and all these interviews on with the fundraising, is that when we are in a chronic stress state or burnout, one of the main things we cannot do is connect, like when we are in survival mode.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: Every part of our brain shuts down, other than the part that is prioritized to keep us alive and conserve our energy.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: That's it, that's our body's job when we are in stress.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: So the parts of our brain that can allow us to be vulnerable and connected and share parts of ourselves and ask questions and be curious and be innovative and creative.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: Those are all offline.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: So when we tell a stressed out fundraiser to just go build relationships, that is physically impossible, physically impossible have created an environment that allows them to do it.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: I use the word enablement in the subtitle of my book and it was very controversial, because oftentimes we think about enablement in this negative sense, but when we think about technology, we talk about tech, enablement, making it possible, and I didn't put the word empowerment in my book because I feel like fundraisers inside of them have what they need, nonprofit leaders have what they need, but the system we have created that is around them, the metrics we're putting on top of them, the pressure we're putting on top of them, the lack of support all of those things is not enabling them to do what we are then asking them to do.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: And I want us to think about enablement in a really holistic way.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: What allows them to connect the way they want to, the way you want them to?
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: That all of these things that I mentioned are actually completely inhibiting them to be able to do.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Anyone out there, feel seen, anyone out there, feel like she's talking to you, because my hand is raised and I want to say, john, I think I figured out why my brain was broken this year.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: It was totally overwhelmed and I think I hope this gives you an exhale, friends, because it's not in your head, it's actually in your body and we need to start addressing these things at in a completely different way.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: And I think, mallory, just you coming at it in this way is so helpful.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: So, now that we know that, what do we do?
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: So, mal, I'm teeing you up to go into solution, because there are answers.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Friends, and I know we're saying fundraisers a lot, but, friends, we know not all of you are fundraisers out there.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: We know that so many of us, as we're balancing life, work, family, interest, all of the things are going to experience this.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: So please hear and know that we are talking to you, human at the other end.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: So, mallory, go for it.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: Yes, 100%.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: That's one of the main things I get told about.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: My work is like this isn't just for fundraisers and I'm like I know, but a design thinking principle is designed for the hardest experience and then it actually helps everybody else, and so fundraising is very vulnerable and so I feel like if I design solutions for, like, one of the most vulnerable experiences we have in our nonprofit leadership, then actually the solutions will serve folks in all different types of capacities in their work and in their life.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: So that's been some of my kind of orientation to that.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: But yes, I mean, I think one of the book kind of breaks down the solutions into like three primary parts and all under this term alignment, fundraising and we hear alignment talked about a lot.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: I feel like more and more in our sector, but I feel like we primarily hear it talked about as a strategy and what I was saying to y'all before is, like my goal is really around alignment as an intention, right.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: What does it look like for us to really prioritize alignment in ourselves, which requires a level of self-knowing and awareness and honesty and accountability, right and safety and self-care to be fully aligned with, like, who we are, right.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: And then once we have that, once we have that relationship with ourselves and we have tools to be able to support ourselves through the rejection and the uncertainty and the pressure I mean y'all know y'all are building businesses, everything I listed on that list for fundraisers we experience every day, right, like in this exact moment, I feel pressure and uncertainty and isolation, right, and it's like, so it's not about those elements going away, it's about having tools to address those.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: To number one, recognizing that they matter and that they're important and that how you feel in your experience matters and validating that, then bringing awareness to the ways in which things are showing up that aren't feeling good, that are pulling you out of alignment, and then having tools to reground yourself, to bring yourself back into alignment.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: You know dysregulation in the nervous system and I talk about this in the book, more in the problem section.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: I talk about the nervous system and my chronic pain story and sort of how all that relates to everything we're talking about here.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: But dysregulation is an important part of being a human right.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Like my daughter is learning about her amygdala right now my five-year-old daughter and the other day she was like I wish I could just like get rid of my amygdala and I was like I would love to hear a five-year-old say that I know, I think that might be the Giving Tuesday episode this year is like her talking about her little amygdala.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: But I was like no, no, no, like we need that part of us.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: Like you jump off the roof of our house if it wasn't for that thing.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: Like we love our amygdala, right, we just want to have tools when it starts to go off, when it's getting in our way and we don't want it and we don't need it, and so that requires a level of consciousness and tools to be able to address that.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: And then, once we have that, what that allows for and opens us up for is to really be able to find alignment in our organizations and with funders.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: So it allows us to tap into deeper empathy for the perspective of potential partners.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: It has us reaching out to partners with alignment as the core intention, not strategy, which changes the way we outreach, which changes the meetings we have, the partnerships we build, the way in which money moves through our organization.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: Right, like what does it take for you to stay in an alignment first framing instead of a money first framing?
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: That requires you to not get pulled out from scarcity mindset, right.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: So there's all the solutions start with you.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: The solutions start with you.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: The solutions start with you.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: There is no template that is going to solve this problem without starting with you.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: Period, and that might feel really scary to hear, but it is really really important to hear, because if you have 52 tabs open on your computer of all the things you think you should be doing, none of those things are going and you feel so overwhelmed and stressed because of those 52 tabs.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: Nothing in any one of those tabs is going to actually solve the problem that you're looking for, more than your ability to see 52 tabs open on your computer and not feel stressed.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: I just counted mine.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: I have 16.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: I had a lot more than that, but.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: I closed them before we started, but I had an amazing client once who was like want an inbox zero?
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: Okay, so bad.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: And I was like, listen, you've come to the wrong place If you think what we're going to work on is you having inbox zero.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: What we're going to work on is you having 700 emails and not being stressed yeah, that's the goal.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: And so that's like really you know where this all comes from.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: And then the last part of the book, from the solution side of things, is like how do we create real connection?
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: Like how do we think past the way we've talked about and thought about engagement in ways where it still felt very one way, you know, and part of that is because of how we can track it right.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: And this is part of where our nervous system being so activated makes us really want a clean and tidy moves management system.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: Relationships do not work that way.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: Connection does not work that way.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: With moves management, yes, right, and so like the goal is not actually to figure out the right way to design your moves management so that you have complete certainty, because that day is never coming.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: The goal is to know that relationships are dynamic and connected and complicated and to be able to navigate that and to understand what are the elements that create real connection.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: And then again everything in the book goes back to like you have to be able to create real connection starting inside of you, so like I can give you all the tools and the strategies and the things that work and how you build trust on a scientific level and all of those things.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: But so many of the things we talk about here are felt experiences, and the only way for your donors to feel that is for you to be actually open to it.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just the way you know.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: I've been hearing you talk and thinking of a lot of experiences being in fundraising for like 15 years.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: I'm like alignments, the way you know.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I love the language that you've chosen intentionally there I go using the word intention because we talk a lot about this podcast and we probably get a bad rep that we're like it's not all about the money, it's about all these other things you know.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: But I think when you're really coming at it with alignment, it opens the door to possibilities so much beyond money because you're aligned, which means it may be the lowest hanging denominators to get the dollar, but there's alignment.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: So it's like, of course I want to introduce you to my friends, of course I'm going to be thinking of you top of mind when I'm having this gathering tonight at my house or whatever it may be that it's like if we move in this way, not only are we taking care of ourselves, we are putting our organizations in so much more of a healthy space to have activated partners surrounding our missions, and so it's just exciting to think about what this could do and how it really could shift the sector as more and more of us can become awake and attuned to this type of philosophy.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: So I think not only are you on to something like I'm here for this, that you're on to Like it's so good, and so it gets us back to feeling excited about this work too.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: What would you want to say I?
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: I'm just like I'm, you know, clapping, I'm pump, I'm pumping my fist, I'm like a bobblehead, I just.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: It is everything that I wanted in my nonprofit experience in the 20 years I was in it.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: It was the calm and the ease that I was so searching for, alongside the passion and the drive I had to do good, and those things were not crystallized in any way.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: There was, to your point, there was not alignment, and I can just think so many times of just when my body was sending me signals.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, while I shared it, I've had a complete and total nervous breakdown and I ignored the signs forever.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: You're welcome to go listen to that nervous breakdown story.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: It's on we Are For Good a mental health episode 195.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: But I just think this concept about taking ownership of ourselves and of our place in this world and living in harmony with our mind, body, spirit and our purpose, and we say it's not woo-woo y'all, this is literal science and I just believe that if we can get more people in alignment, to be this way, to think this way, that our sector could explode, with the connectivity to your point of how relationship dynamics change, and I'm not just talking about the funder to the donor to the nonprofit person.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about colleague to colleague, I'm talking about beneficiary to colleague, I'm talking about everything in the ecosystem.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: And I think it's just why we're so excited about this book, because it's not just attacking the problem, it's got these solutions involved, and I just think the way you're walking through it, mal, is so beautiful.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: And so I want to like sort of round out our conversation here with story, which you know we're going to bring up.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: When you think about this book, when you think about its tenets and the hallmarks of it, what is a story that correlates for you that comes up?
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's a story in the book, maybe it's a part of a journey that you experienced, that you had to right-size in your mind, to operate differently.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: What's coming up for you?
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: A story?
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: Okay, I'm going to tell you about Jeff in a second, but there's something you just said, becky, that I think just made a light bulb go off in my head, which is like and there are a few pieces to this.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: One is the book is from all of you.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: This book is like.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: The book is like from all of you, you know like.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: This book is like like I yes, I pieced it together, but like the interviews are like what?
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: The fundraising interviews?
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: They're scientists and researchers and like this isn't mine.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: And when I was sort of creating alignment, fundraising, capital A, capital F, like the idea somebody was like you need to trademark it.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: And then I was like, no, I don't want to own it.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Like I want to like start this conversation.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: I don't want this to be mine, I want this to be ours and I want us to figure out and grapple with what does it look like for all of us to like to adopt this way of being, john, to your point, like I, just I want to like inspire the space for this because, because I think like this is what changed my life and my experience fundraising, what I've seen with the hundreds of organizations I've gotten to work closely with, and but.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: But like now it's yours, everybody you know, and like you kind of determine where where it all goes next, and so that's sort of that's just like one thing and I thought about when you were talking about like I think maybe you said the word constellation I thought about those little globes that you can put in kids' rooms where the constellations show on the whole.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: We have them.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the star maps.
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: Yes, but I was thinking like, let's imagine all of us are those, but we are covered right now.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: We have a covering over the top of us.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: So inside of us is all the light and all the capacity to create all the stars on the walls.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: It's there.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: You don't need more of it.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: What you need is to uncover those holes and then that is what starts to create the constellation and the network and the connections and, to your point, like what could be possible with a community and a sector of unhindered and fully enabled people, like that's the world I want my kids to grow up in.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: You shared, because I think it reaffirmed for me why I care so much about this and you can hear me getting choked up, but I really do.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to share a funny story and this is actually the very last chapter.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: This is the very last section of the last chapter of my book, and earlier in the book I talk about my relationship with this donor, jeff, who used to be very transactional, and I talk about how I was really disappointed when he would give small amounts when I knew his capacity was a lot bigger, and just sort of like how the transactional way of fundraising was so baked into me and it really hindered my relationship with him.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: And then at the end of the book I talk about how my relationship with him evolved as I started to change the way that I connected with people and fundraised and sort of did all this work myself and all the different ways that he started to open up his network and his work to our organization.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: And then came a day where this relationship was really tested and he invited me to a lunch in North Beach in San Francisco, with a bunch of environmental funders and I was running an environmental literacy program and he invited me to come and speak about the organization that I was running at the time and I was very nervous and I was like, oh my God, even though I still, even though I had a great relationship with him, like talking about money, like in front of people, like oh my God, lord, no, please.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: And so I brought my.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: There was an exchange component of that organization.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: We used to have the students sell chocolate to help fund their exchange trips, and so I was like you know what, like maybe I don't have to like give a whole pitch, I'll just like bring chocolate for everyone and our mission statements on there and you know that'll be enough and right Doing all the things to avoid that vulnerable and uncomfortable moment.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: So I bring all these chocolate bars and that lunch, feeling super uncomfortable the whole time, maybe give a little spiel about the organization and then I had to leave the lunch early, who knows why.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: Honestly, probably because I was so stressed and uncomfortable.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: So I'm like I'm just going to leave the chocolate bars here for all of you to take home, get on the train to go across the bay to Oakland and I open up one of the chocolate bars for myself and I flip over the bar and there are moths, moths, oh no there are not.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: Dead moths, moths.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: Oh no, there are not Dead moths covering the chocolate bar.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: And I am horrified, yeah, and like the thoughts going through my mind right, like I'm like the panic.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: System regulation System regulation.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: We're talking about nervous breakdown, right?
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: My body was like, oh my God.
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: So then I have no contact information for any of the funders who are at this lunch, because I was just invited as a part of him.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: So I'm like, okay, well, like, not only am I not getting funding from any of those people, but I probably just ruined my relationship with Jeff because, like, oh my God, he like gave me this opportunity and I gave everybody dead bugs to eat and like on the backside, right, so like people were going to take bites and then find the moths, right, like this was just ah.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: So I'm like texting Jeff, I'm texting Jeff, I'm emailing Jeff.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: I'm like not hearing back.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: I'm losing my mind.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: I got zero things done that day and then, maybe like five hours later or something, I get an email back from him and it goes hi, mallory, so nice to see you at lunch today, don't worry at all.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: There are a lot of sweaters in my closet, with moss too, and I still love them.
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: Hope to see you soon.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: Oh, dead.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: And I like remember that moment.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: I remember that moment, like I remember where I was standing in my room in that apartment.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: I remember what it felt like to be seen as imperfect and still loved and appreciated.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: I remember being like.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: This is what a healthy, good relationship with a donor looks like and feels like, and this is what I want.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: These are the relationships I want to be building.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: This is how I want to do this, and Jeff actually passed away a few years ago from cancer, but I just think so much about what he taught me, about what alignment fundraising gets to feel like for all of us.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: And yeah, and my book launch Um, and yeah, and my my book law.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: I'm having a little book launch party um in San Francisco and it's at his building um, run by the nonprofit that he inspired to start their organization at a speak easy.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: And so it really.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: I really feel um so lucky that I get to like remember him and honor him in these ways.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, what a beautiful way to round this out.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: That's what we all want.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: This is the kind of relationships that transcend, you know, and that still move you all these years later.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: I love the full circle-ness of that all.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: You know how we round out this podcast, though.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: We got to have a one good thing.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: What is something that stirred up within you?
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Maybe something through the book that you want to share with our audience today?
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: What's your one good thing?
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: I'm nervous that I've shared this one before, but I don't really care.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do it again.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: I think, I think, um, I want everybody who's listening to this to take a little moment and feel a feeling, whatever that feeling is, and then I just want you to acknowledge and validate that feeling.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: I just want you to acknowledge and validate that feeling, that's it.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: I just want you to say that makes sense, that I feel this way, and you don't need to do anything else with it.
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: You don't need to know where it came from, you don't need to know the story behind it.
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: I just want you to feel a feeling and acknowledge and validate it.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: It's a really, really powerful nervous system regulation tool and something that would give us all a lot more capacity for taking on all the other elements that we talked about today.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: I love that one good thing.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: I do it on a weekly basis with my therapist because I do parts work and I'm telling you it has changed the human being that I am inside.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: This is such a one good, a good, one good thing.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: And if you have not put Mallory's book in your cart, what are you doing with your life?
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Friends, like run go now.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Like it has dropped what the fundraising dropped last night, I think officially, today is the first day that it is literally out and on shelves.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: So, mal, tell people where they can get the book.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I think they're going to be looking for the moth story in the very back which I thought kind of had an environmental hook to it.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: So you can stretch.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my gosh.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: Yes, you can go to MalloryEricksoncom backslash book and find where all books are sold, and then you can also submit for some little fun bonuses, extra bonuses for, and maybe even a hidden chapter following today's conversation, and then also come check me out at impact up, because I'll be giving away a little bit more goodness from this episode and what we didn't get to talk about today.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Y'all.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: There's just so much to talk about.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Mallory is literally talking, sharing about this at Impact Up.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, my friend, I hope everybody listening feels the exhale that we feel getting to hang in your orbit.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, thank you for the way you show up, the way that you have said the things that need to be said so we can move into more alignment.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: This has been a beautiful conversation and just adore the person you are.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: I appreciate you both so much.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, thanks for the container and all the things.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Let's keep talking about hard things, especially in community.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: So thank you Mal, Thank you to all of you.