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“A toxic and unhelpful affair.” (Debate recap special!) · Pod Save America

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey guys!
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:22
  Speaker 4: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: On today's pod, we'll talk about the absolute mess of
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: a debate in South Carolina last night and what it
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: all means for the candidates heading into this weekend's primary.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: And just a few days later, Super Tuesday, where nearly
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: 40% of all the delegates are at stake. A few
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: quick housekeeping notes. Tommy, what did you and Ben talk
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: about on this week's Pod Save the World?
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: We spent a lot of time talking about some of
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: the criticisms of Bernie Sanders' foreign policy record and past
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: statements that you heard discussed on that stage last night.
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: So if you want a primer on what's right, what's wrong,
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: what are the facts, check it out. We also talked
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: about Trump's visit to India and the fact that he
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: named a real-life Twitter troll to be head of the
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: intelligence community, which is bad.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Not great. Not great at all. Also a reminder that
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: even though we're still in this super fun primary, we
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: need to start preparing for the general election. We've already
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: raised $ 290, 000 for our Leave It All in the Field Fund,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: which is currently helping to recruit, train, and pay 1,000
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: organizers in the battleground states that we need to win.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: So please help support a field organizer today at votesaveamerica.com
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: slash field. Finally, if you're in the L.A. area the
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: day after Super Tuesday, all four of us will be
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: at the Wilshire Ebel Theater to talk about Dan's book,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Untrumping America, and all the latest primary results. That's March
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: 4th at 8 p.m. And you can find more information
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: and tickets at untrumpingamerica.com. Come say hi.
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: Still should have called a yes-wee, Dan.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Missed opportunity.
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: Would have been a better title.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Missed opportunity.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Last night, seven people yelled at each other for two
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: hours on national television while a rowdy audience cheered and booed.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden, Mike Bloomberg, Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar, Bernie Sanders,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Tom Steyer, and Elizabeth Warren took the stage in Charleston,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: South Carolina for the most chaotic debate yet, which was
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: hosted by CBS and loosely moderated by Gayle King, Nora O'Donnell,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: and other CBS journalists. In case you missed it, here's
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: a little taste of what the debate was like.
• 2:15
  Speaker 5: Mr.
• 2:15
  Speaker 6: Steyer, Mr.
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: Steyer.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: We don't get to you, Mr.
• 2:18
  Speaker 6: Sanders.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: Let's talk about it.
• 2:19
  Speaker 5: Can I say something?
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: First of all, Bernie, let me go.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Let me go. That was a very terrible clip. What
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: the hell happened last night, guys? And why do you
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: think this particular debate was so chaotic?
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: I just wanted to first say that I really like
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: a lot of reporters at CBS, especially Nora O'Donnell, especially Gail,
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: especially the fact that Margaret Brennan actually cares about foreign
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: policy and talks about this stuff on her show. But
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: their rules didn't get enforced. We moved on from topics
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: right when they were getting interesting. I thought the framing
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: of a lot of the questions was just terrible. It
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: sort of bought into Republican talking points or ignored facts
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: or I don't know. I've never been this consistently frustrated.
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: Never at a debate.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Love it.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a toxic and unhelpful affair, I'd say.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: It was hard to say there was any one reason
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: it felt so dispiriting to observe. I think one reason
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: is the candidates. I think they all came in with
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: countervailing purposes, multiple different tacks to take on Bernie Sanders,
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: take on Mike Bloomberg, take on each other, reframe their
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: position in the race at a moment when, for a
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: lot of these candidates, it will either be the first
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: or the last debate of the rest of their lives.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: And on top of that, I think, to Tommy's point,
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: I think some of the questions that didn't provide an
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: opportunity for any kind of sort of elucidating answers. I mean,
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: it would be the first debate to talk about coronavirus.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: The question was incredibly specific. Will you seal the borders?
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: It was, you know, the question of.
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that was weird. It doesn't solve the problem. It's
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: something dumb that Trump told us to do around Ebola,
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: which was unhelpful.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: The question framed around Putin, the question for Israel framed
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: around what Jews will accept or what exactly the framing was.
• 4:09
  Speaker 6: It all.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: it all lent itself to, I think the worst impulses
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: of some of the candidates and, uh, to the worst
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: impulses of political media right now. Uh, you know, the
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: last question of the debate was very silly and we'll
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: get to it, but ultimately I actually found it to
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: be one of the least, uh, depleting parts of the
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: debate to observe because the candidates had a chance to
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: just speak a little bit, uh, from the heart and,
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: you know, try to convey something meaningful about their values
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: when for the most part it was, uh, a food
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: fight without refs?
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, I'll start with, in defense
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: of the moderators, I think this debate would have been
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: challenging for anyone because the candidates came ready to attack
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: each other in part because, like you said, Lovett, for
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: many of them, this is their last chance. And so
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: they were on edge to begin with. That said, and
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: I also... Love Gayle King. Love Nora O'Donnell. I think
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Margaret Brennan's a good journalist. So it's hard even saying
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: this about them, but it just was not moderated well.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: And I think one of the problems was when a
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: candidate would challenge another candidate, the candidate who was challenged
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: didn't even get to fully respond properly. because then a
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: bunch of other candidates jumped in. And I think it
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: made all the candidates look bad because you'd get attacked,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: you'd try to respond, and then someone would cut you off.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: And so you didn't even really get to defend yourself.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: And that happened to almost all the candidates.
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: I don't know what you do. Do you go to
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: break early and say, hey, everybody, we got enforced these rules.
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: This is a nightmare. It makes all of you look bad. Like,
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure. But like, you know, Biden complained about
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: not getting time like four or five different times. So
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: you could see that it was impacting him and his performance. Now,
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: I think a savvy debater knows that you've got to
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: stop complaining about the refs and just adjust your strategy.
• 5:54
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: That's true in any sport, anything you ever do. But
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: it was glaring. And I thought he got screwed. I
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: thought Pete got talked over a lot. Amy Klobuchar didn't
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: get a question for 15 minutes.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: What the fuck was that? It was wild. I also
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: think the, um, we've all said this before. There should
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: be no crowds at debates. I think it is. It
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: is always bad. And look, there was a lot of
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: complaints last night because there was some local story about
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: how the tickets were super expensive and, though there's a
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: lot of conflicting reports about that. The DNC said that
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: most of the tickets were evenly distributed among the campaigns,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: the Congressional Black Caucus, the South Carolina Democratic Party, CBS,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: and Twitter. The South Carolina Democratic Party says that they
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: actually did not sell their 400 tickets but gave them
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: to activists and local officials, and this is what happened
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: in the past. In other debates, the state parties do
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: sell their tickets. But regardless, each campaign had their own
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: supporters evenly distributed in the audience, and those supporters... decided
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: to boo, cheer. They particularly cheered some of the moderate candidates,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: whether it was Bloomberg or Pete or Biden. Elizabeth Warren
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: got booed once. And so but like the way to
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: handle that is just it's crazy to have these big
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: crowds and turn it into a rally.
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: The Democratic Party is seated.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: The Republicans, too.
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: We've ceded too much control to TV networks that are
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: putting on a show that gets ratings and they run ads.
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: We should pull back this entire process. Put it on C-SPAN.
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: Put it on PBS.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: No audience. No jeering.
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: No bullshit. This is too important for a night like
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: last night.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: And have progressive activists and people who know these issues
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: ask the questions like we've been saying for a long time.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: I will say, though, I tend to agree with that.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: First of all, it's amazing how many incredibly important lessons
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: we're learning for the next primary after the most important
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: primary in history.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: That's a bit frustrating. But on the other hand, right,
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: the last debate, which I think was also a bit contentious,
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: but nonetheless, I think we came away feeling a bit
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: energized because it was a tough debate for some of
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: the candidates. It was feisty, but it felt like these
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: were candidates sort of on their game trying to make
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: their best case, was also on a major media network. And,
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: you know, I think the argument in favor of doing
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: it with these companies is they have the ability to
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: reach 10, 20 million people. But at the same time...
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: They can air it.
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: They just don't get to control it.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: And they don't get to make money off it. I
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: don't give a shit about CBS making money on a debate.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: No, I agree. And I believe the period on the
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: end of the sentence was the, we'll be right back.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: Watch some more commercials. Thanks for watching.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: That was incredible, Dan.
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: I lost my mind.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: So one of the reasons things got a little tense
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: is because all the candidates suddenly realized that Bernie Sanders
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: has a decent chance of winning a pledge delegate lead
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: on Super Tuesday that is basically insurmountable for the rest
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: of the primary. Again, to all those listening, this is
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: just the math. This is not us. Saying like Bernie's
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: going to win because we think Bernie should win. It
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: is just go look at the pledge delegate math. Go
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: look at the states. Go look at the polls. It
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: is certainly it is far from certain, maybe even less
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: far from certain laughter last night because now Joe Biden
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: looks like he's in a good position in South Carolina.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: But Bernie is the prohibitive favorite right now just because
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: of the math and the calendar. And for that reason,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: every other candidate directly challenged him more than in any
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: other debate. Here are some of the greatest hits.
• 9:03
  Speaker 7: Super Tuesday states one-third of America will vote. Do you
• 9:07
  Speaker 7: want to have someone in charge of this ticket?
• 9:10
  Speaker 6: Could I finish, Margaret?
• 9:12
  Speaker 7: You want to have someone in charge of this ticket
• 9:14
  Speaker 7: who wants to put forward $ 60 trillion in spending, three
• 9:18
  Speaker 7: times the American economy?
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: I don't think we do.
• 9:21
  Speaker 8: I passed the Brady bill with waiting periods.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: I led that fight.
• 9:25
  Speaker 8: But my friend and my right and others have, in fact,
• 9:27
  Speaker 8: also given to the gun manufacturers... Absolute immunity. Imagine if
• 9:33
  Speaker 8: I stood here and said we give immunity to drug companies.
• 9:35
  Speaker 8: We give immunity to tobacco companies. That has caused carnage
• 9:39
  Speaker 8: on our streets.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Bernie and I agree on a lot of things, but
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: I think I would make a better president than Bernie.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: And the reason for that is that getting a progressive
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: agenda enacted is going to be really hard. And it's
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: going to take someone who digs into the details to
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: make it happen. Bernie and I both wanted to help
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: rein in Wall Street. In 2008, we both got our chance,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: but I dug in, I fought the big banks, I
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: built the coalitions, and I won. Bernie and I both
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: want to see universal healthcare, but Bernie's plan doesn't explain
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: how to get there, doesn't show how we're going to
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: get enough allies into it, and doesn't show enough about
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: how we're going to pay for it. I dug in,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I did the work, and then Bernie's team trashed me
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: for it. We need a president who is going to
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: dig in, do the hard work, and actually get it done.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Progressives have got one shot, and we need to spend
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: it with a leader who will get something done.
• 10:40
  Speaker 6: We just cannot afford some of the stuff people talk about.
• 10:44
  Speaker 6: Let me finish. If you keep on going, We will
• 10:48
  Speaker 6: elect Bernie. Bernie will lose to Donald Trump. And Donald
• 10:53
  Speaker 6: Trump and the House and the Senate and some of
• 10:55
  Speaker 6: the state houses will all go red. And then between
• 10:59
  Speaker 6: gerrymandering and appointing judges for the next 20 or 30 years,
• 11:03
  Speaker 6: we're going to live with this catastrophe.
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: Look, if you want to keep the House in Democratic hands,
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: you might want to check. with the people who actually
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: turned the house blue. 40 Democrats who are not running
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: on your platform. They are running away from your platform
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: as fast as they possibly can.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: I want to send those Democrats.
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: Back to the United States House. Let's listen to them
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: when they say that they don't want to be out
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: there defending Senator Sanders. I am not looking forward to
• 11:31
  Speaker 5: a scenario where it comes down to Donald Trump with
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: his nostalgia for the social order of the 1950s and
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: Bernie Sanders with a nostalgia for the revolutionary politics of
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: the 1960s. This is not about what coups were happening
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: in the 1970s or 80s. This is about the future.
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: This is about 2020.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: So that was the whole kitchen sink. I do like,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: by the way, I just noticed this now, how Joe
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Biden decided to interrupt to say that it was 41
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: House seats, not 40.
• 12:01
  Speaker 6: 41.
• 12:01
  Speaker 7: 41.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: That's so funny.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: That just shows you how on edge everyone was. They're
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: going to correct people for just one number at a time.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: So which of these, which of this buffet of attacks
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: on Bernie Sanders do you guys think was most effective?
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: And how do you think overall in the debate Bernie
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: handled all the incoming?
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: That's a great question. I have no idea. You know,
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: it was, it was, Attacks on Bernie in a bunch
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: of different directions. I mean, just me personally, I think
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: the argument Elizabeth Warren is making from progressivism is, I think,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: has been a part of her argument she hasn't made before,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: saying basically, you know, Bernie is a blunt instrument and
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: I will come in and get into the nooks and
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: crannies of our government and you can trust me to
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: do that. And I think that that speaks to her
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: inherent strengths as a candidate. I don't know about the
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: gun attack on Bernie. It's something Hillary Clinton tried and,
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: you know, I don't know how effective that is. You know, Pete,
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: Pete's making a case that I think Biden would also
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: make about vulnerable House members and Bloomberg and Bloomberg. But but,
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: you know, it's interesting hearing Pete make the argument because
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: he always ends up back at some kind of like
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: rhetorical flourish that feels very canned and rehearsed, you know.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: The politics of the 50s, the revolutionary politics of the 60s,
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: what have you.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I should say, in fairness, that we cut them together.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: That was later in the debate, and the House seat
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: one was earlier.
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: We put them both together.
• 13:28
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: But just in general, I found him to be, at times,
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: you know, as he has been in these debates, incredibly polished,
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: incredibly well-prepared, incredibly quick on his feet, while at the
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: same time, I think, feeling a little bit rote. You know,
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: as for Mike Bloomberg, you know, he's... He's got one
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: debate of practice in. I think he could use a
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: couple more.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Tell me what you think.
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: I just kept thinking about what would have happened if
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: each of these candidates had picked a previous debate and
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: decided to start making their case against Bernie then and
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: then had time to drive a deliberate message that might
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: have involved earned media, paid media, more concerted messaging strategy.
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: I think when you do the kitchen sink strategy like that,
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: it can feel like a wash. I mean, I think
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: A lot of the common thread in a lot of
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: these attacks was probably electability based. And that is probably
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: the easiest argument to make against Bernie, just in terms
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: of like freaking out Democrats right now. Pete has consistently
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: gone after Bernie on this line about how you pay
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: for your plans or Medicare for all. I don't think
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: that Bernie handled these attacks that well tonight, in part
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: because it's really hard when you have everybody attacking you.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: As you just said, Fear that one of these candidates,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: whoever we nominate, is not going to be able to
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: beat Donald Trump has sort of been the driving force
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: behind the entire primary. And so that's why I actually
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: think that Pete's argument and Bloomberg's argument, which went to electability,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: were far more effective for voters who are wondering, are
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: we picking the right person to face Donald Trump? I
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: think Elizabeth Warren's argument is probably the most substantively fair argument,
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: but that's about once you're governing, she's basically saying, I'm
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: going to be a more effective president than Bernie is.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: And I think she'd make a very good case for
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: that based on the fact that she later talked about
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: the filibuster, how she wants to get rid of the filibuster.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: And Pete made that argument as well, that he wants
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: to get rid of the filibuster. She is right about
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: the filibuster. She is right, and Pete is right. And
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: they both hit Bernie for not wanting to get rid
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: of the filibuster. I think Elizabeth Warren made a great
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: point that in 2008, both of them wanted to take
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: on the banks. She ended up helping create the Consumer
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Financial Protection Bureau. Bernie did not. So those are all
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: good arguments about how she'd be more effective governing, but
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: doesn't really say why. it doesn't get to the electability fears.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: I agree with you, Lovett, on the gun thing as well,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: because that's not so much about electability in the primary either.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: That's about Joe Biden has a better record on guns
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: than Bernie Sanders, which is true.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: But the problem is, you know, then Bernie says, here's
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: my position.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Right, which is, that's, yeah. But I do think on the,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: I think on the electability thing, look, there was, Vox had,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: two political scientists at Vox, David Brookman and Joshua Kala
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: had a piece out yesterday and they have a paper out.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: They fielded a 40,000 person survey, which is a lot
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: of fucking people. in early 2020, so just a month ago,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: that found Bernie Sanders matches up just as well against
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump as the more moderate candidates, which is what
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: most of the polling finds right now. But they dug
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: in and they found out that's only if youth turnout
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: surges to levels higher than it did for Barack Obama
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: in 2008. And the reason is because Bernie loses a
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: bunch of Republicans, Independents, and Democrats who say that they'll
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: vote for the Democrat against Trump if it's Pete, Biden,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: or Bloomberg. but not if it's Bernie, they'll vote for Trump.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, basically Bernie is running even with
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: the other candidates against Trump because he is, because he
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: has strength among voters who aren't always likely to turn out.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: And the other ones have strength with voters who are
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: likely to turn out. And look, I think we, you know, these,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of these frontline Democrats who Pete was talking about,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: these are not like establishment centrists who've been in Washington forever.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: These are the people that we all talked about in
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: 2018 and we all fought for and got excited about,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: these frontline Democrats. And they're all a little worried too.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: And their worry could be for nothing. They could be wrong. But,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: you know, I think it is, we've talked about this too.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: There is a concern here that there are suburban voters
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: who we need that may not be willing to vote
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: for Bernie Sanders. And then the question is, if they
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: don't vote for him, which that's OK. He has to
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: then make it up by turnout. And so far, he
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: has not shown in any of the contests that have
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: happened so far that he is bringing in all these
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: new voters.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, the problem, though, is that that case
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: could be salient in the hands of a candidate with
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: a really strong electability argument.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: So this is the whole it goes back to. It's
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: all relative, right?
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: Not one of them has it. You know, Joe Biden
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: can claim it, but he has performed poorly in the
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: first few states and he has not seemed particularly live
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: or strong on these debate stages. Pete has shown himself
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: unable to appeal to the base of the Democratic Party,
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: which is Black voters. Elizabeth Warren has consistently polled lower
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: than Bernie and Biden when you go to the head-to-heads,
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: which you should take with a grain of salt, but
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: nonetheless show a delta that's never been erased. Amy Klobuchar
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: has collapsed since New Hampshire, and I don't particularly understand
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: what Tom Steyer is doing there. Bloomberg, the white knight,
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: has been... not a good performer. The candidate has not
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: matched the spending of his campaign. And so, yeah, you know,
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: everybody can throw the kitchen sink at Bernie, but it's
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: the same problem as always. No one's provided themselves as
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: the alternative, and none of these people have seen the
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: strength in a fellow alternative to see the reason to
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: drop out and get behind anybody else.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I just think on the electability stuff,
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: Pete probably made the best case. I thought he had
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: a very strong debate last night.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Like, I agree.
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: The thing that sometimes rubs me the wrong way about
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: pete at debates is it's too good it's always from
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: south carolina to south bend everything is sort of a
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: speech line i think if he abandoned that and just
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: sort of did like a common sense messaging uh frame
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: or just talked a little more normally that it would
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: land better that said he did i thought he was
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: very good last night i was impressed by pete i
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: thought bloomberg's electability case was the worst but probably that's
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: because in my head i'm thinking bloomberg is probably doing
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: more to help bernie at this point than hurt him
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: so it's ironic back to the guns thing like I
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: wonder if the guns hit from Biden is more salient
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: because they're in Charleston because of the horrific mass shooting
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: in Charleston in 2015. But I mean, it's sort of
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: it's hard to convince me or anyone else probably that
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: Bernie took a vote to defend an industry, whether it
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: was a gun industry or anyone else.
• 19:45
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: Like just not in Bernie's DNA. You can make it
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: you'd say this was like a hackish political choice. Now,
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: I thought previously Bernie had handled the issue better by saying,
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: you know, times have changed and so have I. Instead,
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: this time he led with a hit on Biden's record
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: on voting for Iraq.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it was a very good response.
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: Well, it was a sequencing problem because then he kind
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: of got jeered and then he engaged with the audience.
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: And I think if he had expressed contrition and remorse
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: first for that vote and then went to the point
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: where everyone on the stage has bad votes, that's totally fair.
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: But it just it landed off.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, Bloomberg has plenty. Bloomberg, Biden, Bernie and Klobuchar
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: on that stage have all had bad votes and positions
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: in their past. And we've seen this throughout the campaign
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: and other candidates have who've come and gone too. And
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: I really think the only way to deal with those
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: bad positions is to say, as Bernie has before on guns, like, yeah,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: I've changed. And I'm sorry I had those positions in
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: the past because they were bad in the past. They
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: were bad votes. Yeah.
• 20:43
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: I do think it was a rare moment where Bernie
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: hasn't done, I think, either moments because I think Bernie
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: is so authentic and because he's this old gruff guy
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: who just speaks from the heart that he's not given
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: enough credit for the I think, strategy and smart political
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: instincts he often has on the stage. Everybody acts like, oh,
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: you know, he's not super prepared. He's not super thoughtful.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: But like he does come to these debates with a strategy.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: In previous debates, he's come to this thing with the
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: strategy of, you know, being magnanimous, being bigger, bringing it
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: back to his core message. And I do think that
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: there were moments where that got away from him a
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: little bit, in part because it was such a contentious
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: and toxic debate. But there were other moments where he,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: you know, praised Bloomberg, I believe, for his gun work,
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: where he praised Biden for his work on some other issues.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: And I think there was a moment where Bernie remembered
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: to behave like a magnanimous and generous frontrunner trying to
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: bring the party together. And it was the moments, I think,
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: where he did the best.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: So I'd say one of the most contentious exchanges involving
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Bernie was when Joe Biden brought up his comments that
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: he made on 60 Minutes about how the Cuban government
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: had literacy programs and those were good, despite condemning authoritarianism
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: in general. Let's listen to that clip.
• 22:02
  Speaker 8: Barack Obama was abroad. He was in a town meeting.
• 22:05
  Speaker 8: He did not in any way suggest that there was
• 22:08
  Speaker 8: anything positive about the Cuban government. He acknowledged that they
• 22:12
  Speaker 8: did increase life expectancy, but he went on and condemned
• 22:15
  Speaker 8: the dictatorships. He went on to condemn the people who,
• 22:18
  Speaker 8: in fact, had run that committee. He also made sure
• 22:21
  Speaker 8: to make it clear.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: And by the way, I called to make sure.
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: I was prepared.
• 22:25
  Speaker 8: I was I never say my private conversation. But the
• 22:29
  Speaker 8: fact of the matter is he, in fact, does not
• 22:32
  Speaker 8: did not has never embraced an authoritarian regime and does not. Now,
• 22:38
  Speaker 8: this man said that, in fact, he thought it was
• 22:41
  Speaker 8: he did not condemn what is.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Untrue, categorically untrue. What did you tell him?
• 22:46
  Speaker 6: I have condemned authoritarianism, whether it is the people in
• 22:50
  Speaker 6: Saudi Arabia.
• 22:51
  Speaker 8: That the United States government has loved.
• 22:52
  Speaker 6: Cuba, Nicaragua.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Cuba, Nicaragua.
• 22:55
  Speaker 8: Authoritarianism of any stripe is bad.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: But that is different.
• 23:00
  Speaker 6: Than saying that governments occasionally do things that are good.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: That's what Barack Obama said.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: So, Tommy, what did you think about that whole exchange
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: and this debate over authoritarianism in Cuba in general?
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: So this was another example where I thought the moderators
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: did a disservice to the conversation. The question was, Bernie,
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: you praise the Chinese Communist Party for raising more people
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: out of extreme poverty than any other country. You have
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: a track record of praising these socialist governments. Can voters
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: trust a democratic socialist president to not give authoritarians a
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: free pass?
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: And I just think that was a little shaded.
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: I just think that's such an unsophisticated question. So first,
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: like the facts on China and poverty. Here's a quote
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: from Barack Obama in 2015. Given China's success in lifting
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, which was
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: one of the most remarkable achievements in human.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: History, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 23:53
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: So it's not offensive to America.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I remember that line.
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: To state a fact.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: I remember him saying that.
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: Now, I do think you can you can say, OK.
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: Bernie Sanders will have an electability problem in some communities,
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: especially in Florida, given the tone where they feel like
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: he is being insufficiently critical of Fidel Castro or Venezuela
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: or some of these other places. But I hate when
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: we get in these debates and we skip past the
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: facts and the reality first. And there's just so many
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: times in politics where I think candidates are told, your
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: perspective is true, but you can't say that because it's
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: politically damaging. And that pissed off Barack Obama. That probably
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: pisses off every politician. Bernie Sanders has even less time
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: for it. But I did think, like, I don't know
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: that Bernie got himself out of the problem here, which
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: is a bunch of Democrats in South Florida going on
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: the record to criticize what he said about Castro, right?
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: Like that problem will still exist, but it was like,
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: I could feel his frustration where he's in a position
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: where he seemingly has to just sing the national anthem
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: or whatever the bar is for talking about American exceptionalism
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: and not say, actually, in China, they did some things well.
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: In Cuba, they did some things well. In America, we
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: fucked some things up. We can be adults about this
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: and have a conversation.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: When I first heard him say this on 60 Minutes
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: and I first heard the controversy, I completely understood what
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: his answer was meant to be, right? Because part of
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: what Bernie was saying is, they were asking, you know,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: one of the reasons that a lot of Cuban people
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: didn't join with the U.S. in trying to overthrow Castro is, A,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: of course, there was horrible authoritarianism and they didn't have
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: the freedom to do so, but B, you know, Castro
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: had these literacy programs and this is what authoritarian governments do, right? Like,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: they give out goods and services to people as a
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: way to sort of keep them under their thumb, right? Like,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: it's not a good thing, but that's what they do.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: And Bernie was sort of explaining that. So I didn't
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: think it was as big of a deal, but then,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: He was asked about it in a town hall on
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: CNN the night before the debate. He was asked about
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: the debate. And if I were Bernie in that situation,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: I would have gone much harder at condemning, being very clear.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: And he said, oh, I've condemned authoritarianism, but it was
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: sort of a passing thing. And then he was like
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: really defensive about it. I think you could then go
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: on and say Fidel Castro was, you know, ran a
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: horrible regime. There were human rights abuses that were terrible.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Like He could have spent a little more time condemning
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: the authoritarians and the dictators before he defended himself. And
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: so I wasn't sure he handled it in the best way.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I think it's ultimately it was a pretty
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: puerile debate. And Bernie's being attacked because there are people
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: who think he particularly has a political liability on these things.
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: And there are some who believe he has a genuine
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: sympathy for these governments. That is a. And he has
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: denounced authoritarianism. I think he has to just do a
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: little extra work there. Yeah, a little extra work. Even
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: though the debate is childish.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: Look, politics is stupid, right? We spent months and months
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: and months debating why Barack Obama didn't wear a fucking
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: flag pin on his suit, right? The dumbest things in
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: the world will become the focus of this campaign. And
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: you have to know that, prepare for it, and then
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: just deal with it deftly and politically smartly when it
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: comes up. The flip side of this conversation, though, is
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: Mike Bloomberg was on that stage and he wouldn't call
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: Xi Jinping a dictator and went into this weird defense
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: of the Chinese Communist Party, Politburo. And I was like,
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: that to me was far more trouble. He's like, he
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: has to pay deference to the Politburo.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: It's like, what are we doing here?
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: It's like, he's like, listen, I'm running for president. I'm
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: not gonna let him fuck up my business.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: But it's again, though, it did speak to like, I
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: think Bernie went right to Saudi Arabia in part because
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: what's clearly, it just sort of like riles him fairly. Like,
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: what is this hypocrisy on this stage? We've got to,
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: We've got America's sympathetic relationship, to put it lightly, with
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Saudi Arabia, and I'm being criticized for 50-year-old comments and
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: for denouncing authoritarianism while noting that certain left-wing authoritarian governments
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: have done positive things in those countries, which, as a
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: country that is a democracy that is based on ideas
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: and trying to tell the truth, we ought to be
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: honest about the ways in which other governments that are
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: different than ours do good things even when we abhor
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: their systems.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: But again... it's politics and the abhorring of the system
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: needs to come through a little bit more. And then
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: it just worries me. Like Bernie has to understand this again,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: if he's going to be the nominee of the party,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: he knows what the attacks are going to be. It's
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: not going to be from Donald Trump. Your programs cost
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: a little too much money. It's going to be, you
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: are a socialist. You are in line with other socialists,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: left-wing governments throughout history and throughout the world. Now you
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: are a scary, you know, like all this kind of stuff.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: And Bernie has a, you know, He said it in
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: his speech about democratic socialism, like the twin problems we
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: face are oligarchy and authoritarianism. That was his whole speech.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: And he could be a little tougher on the authoritarianism
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: part on a big stage like that.
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Ben and I talked about this a lot on
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: Pod Save the World today. When you look back at
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: Bernie's history of statements that are now getting dredged up,
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: a lot of what he was talking about in the
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: 70s and the 80s was in reaction to Ronald Reagan's
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: propping up of you know, militias and death squads in
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: Latin America to overthrow leftist governments.
• 29:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: We should be able to have a little more candor
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: about how fucked up those Reagan era policies were about
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: the CIA, you know, attempting to assassinate foreign leaders in
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: the 60s and 70s. I mean, it's very tough row
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: politically to criticize the United States. We're just not allowed
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: to do it in our political system. And I think
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: that's to our detriment.
• 29:30
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Campaigns aren't the best moments for history lessons. But, you know,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: I hear you. So Bernie took the most incoming, but
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: the candidate who probably had the most at stake was
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden, who badly needs a win in September. Carolina
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: in order to remain competitive on Super Tuesday and in
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: the rest of the primary. Here's the former vice president
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: making a case for his candidacy last night.
• 29:47
  Speaker 8: I've worked like the devil to earn the vote of
• 29:49
  Speaker 8: the African-American community, not just here, but across the country.
• 29:53
  Speaker 8: I've been coming here for years and years, creating jobs here.
• 29:57
  Speaker 8: making sure that the port, for example, that employs one
• 30:00
  Speaker 8: in 11 people. We put $ 500 million in our administration
• 30:04
  Speaker 8: just into this county.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: We've created jobs for people.
• 30:07
  Speaker 8: The people know me. My entire career has been wrapped
• 30:10
  Speaker 8: up in dealing with civil rights and civil liberties. I
• 30:13
  Speaker 8: don't expect anything. I plan to earn the vote. I'm
• 30:16
  Speaker 8: here to ask, and we're going to earn it. But, folks,
• 30:20
  Speaker 8: I intend to win South Carolina, and I will win
• 30:24
  Speaker 8: the African-American vote here in South Carolina.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: So a lot of pundits saying last night was one
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: of Biden's best debates. A few post-debate polls seem to agree.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: I saw a focus group of mostly black voters from
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: South Carolina on CNN last night who also agreed. Most
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: of them thought Biden did the best and some of
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: them were undecided and said now they're voting for Biden.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: What did you guys think?
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: I thought that was a very strong answer. I thought
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: his point about earning the African-American vote and not thinking
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: he's owed it was important. And I thought you could
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: tell by the response in the room that he got
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: a pretty big round of applause there. I thought he
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: had another very strong answer later in the debate about
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: China that was impressive. So there were definitely good moments
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: for Biden. I wonder how much we're grading on a
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: curve this point, because there are times within his own
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: answers where he goes on little asides that end up
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: confusing you more than they help you get to where
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: you're going. For example, I think it was in his
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: Violence Gets Women Act discussion where he referenced hanging chads
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: in Florida. And like probably 2% of viewers understood what
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: that was. And it's like, just leave that part out, man.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: Look, I do think this was Joe Biden's strongest debate.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: I do think that that is a very low bar
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: to clear. And I do think a lot of pundits
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: are now used to seeing how much of a mix
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: there is between kind of strong moments and incomprehensible answers
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: that are very difficult to to follow. So, you know,
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: that is my read on this. I do think it
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: was the best he's done. But again, I think if
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: you were watching this for the first time, you would
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: wonder how strong a candidate this is. And that doesn't
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: mean he won't win South Carolina. That doesn't mean it
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: doesn't appeal to a lot of people and that some
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: of his good answers were enough to get over some
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: of the bad ones. I mean, even that good answer
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: we just played, which was, I think, one of his
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: strongest moments in the debate, did come after he got
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: into a kind of defensive colloquy with the moderators about
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: how well he's doing in the polls. So there were
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: just a lot of strange moments mixed in.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I think I thought a lot about this
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: and I watching that focus group on CNN last night
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: as like, maybe this is just us, you know? I mean, those,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: those people were like, he was strong. He seemed experienced.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: He can lead. He was clear. Like, you know, he, he,
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: of course he does these asides. Of course he has
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: these answers that ramble. He does, you know, argue about
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: the polls. Sometimes Bernie did that last debate as well. Um, So,
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: you know, he has these things, but I wonder if
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: it's baked in for a lot of people now. I
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: think it's probably better at this point to sort of
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: assess Joe Biden's performance in the context of the overall
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: primary and where he is right now. So he got
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: a boost today when he was endorsed by South Carolina
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Representative Jim Clyburn, the third-ranking Democrat in the House and
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: the most prominent African-American leader in the state. Clyburn said,
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: I know Joe Biden. I know his character, his heart,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: and his record. We know Joe, but more importantly, he
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: knows us. I do wonder, like, you know, we've been
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: talking about who's it's basically down to, it's going to
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: be Bernie and someone who's not Bernie.
• 33:18
  Speaker 9: Right.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: And right now the problem for all the non Bernies
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: is there's too many of them. And the question is
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: who is in the best position to sort of take
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: on Bernie, both in super Tuesday and the primary going forward.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: And I do think you can make a pretty strong
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: case for Joe Biden.
• 33:33
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: And, and here's the case, right? Like I do think
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: if you're talking about who's the better performer on the
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: debate stage, like, at least in my opinion, Elizabeth Warren
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: and Pete Buttigieg are the two best debaters on that stage.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: I think Bernie Sanders is probably close behind them, but
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: those two are the best debaters. Clearly, that's not how
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: it's worked out in the results of the different contests
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: we've had so far or the polls, but they're both,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: they're very good debaters. And again, I think Pete Buttigieg
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: debated better than Joe Biden last night. But like you said,
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: love it. If Joe Biden won the African-American vote in Nevada,
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: which is about 10% of the electorate, if he wins
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: South Carolina big, which means he won the African-American vote
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: there too, and we know that going forward you need
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: to put together a diverse coalition of voters, African-Americans, Latinos,
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: working class whites, and college educated whites, out of Joe Biden, Warren, Pete,
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: and Klobuchar, he probably might have the best chance to
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: put together that coalition.
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that may be true. That said, I do want
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: to point out that I thought Mayor Pete's answer on
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: racial justice was quite good in this moment.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: Excellent.
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: He was very self-aware about his failings in South Bend.
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: You know, then Bloomberg came in with sort of like a, hey,
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: I know some black people answer that was just your
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: stereotypical terrible white politician answer. So, you know, Pete has
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: really gotten a lot better as he's gone.
• 34:58
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: I agree with that assessment. It's also worth pointing out
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: that Bernie has been performing incredibly well with Hispanic voters, right?
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Bernie's the leader.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: Of course, of course. I'm not saying otherwise. And the
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: only other candidate that's shown strength with black voters has
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: been Bernie. It doesn't take away from the argument I'm
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: making about Biden, but it just shows the weaknesses he has,
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: even if he does perform well in South Carolina.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: The other interesting thing that Biden did is he went
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: after Tom Steyer.
• 35:29
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: For investing in a private prison. And then called him
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Tommy Come Lately, which is what I'll be calling you now.
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: I took offense.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: But it is interesting. I think some people were surprised
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: by that until you look at the polls, and then
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: you're not surprised at all, because in South Carolina right now,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: it's Joe Biden in the lead, Bernie Sanders second, and
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: Tom Steyer third. And Tom Steyer is certainly not eating
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: into Bernie Sanders' possible lead. He's eating into Joe Biden's
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: possible lead.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: It was really... The moment Tom Steyer said had to
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: explain why he made a mistake in buying a private
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: prison and acting really indignant, like when I bought that
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: private prison, I didn't know how bad it was. So
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: I sold it. How dare you bring that up? It
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: was a reminder like these fucking billionaires. What are you
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: doing here? And it's an ironic part of this that
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: that this debate is the last opportunity for someone to
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: emerge as an alternative to Bernie. and the fact that
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: you have Mike Bloomberg spending hundreds of millions to create
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: a kind of drag on Joe Biden nationally, and Tom
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: Steyer spending millions in South Carolina to create a drag
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: on Joe Biden locally, it may very well turn out
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: that two billionaires and CBS helped make Bernie Sanders the nominee.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: It was probably a.
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: Smart strategy for Biden to come in there and criticize
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: Tom Steyer because he spent tens of millions of dollars
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: in South Carolina and seems to have real support. But
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: once again, it was very muddled execution because he said,
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: my friend on the end of the stage and no
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: one knew who the fuck he was talking about. If
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: Steyer was smart, he would have been like, I thought,
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: I think he meant Bloomberg. He just walked away from
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: the thing.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: Tom Steyer jumped in to let everybody know that Joe
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: Biden was talking about him. Come on, Tom.
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: Come on, Tom.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: Play some games.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: I do think that, I mean, look, Joe Biden without
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: two billionaires trying to drag him down would have problems
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: all on his own.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: But look, there was a poll out today in Texas
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: and it was a poll. They did the poll with
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Bloomberg in the race and without Bloomberg in the race
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: and with Bloomberg in the race, Bernie and Biden are
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: tied in Texas and without Bloomberg in the race, Joe
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Biden has a clear lead on Bernie Sanders in Texas. So,
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: you know, Dan on the last pod said, you know,
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Bloomberg should drop out. But it is true that like
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Mike Bloomberg is, if Joe Biden doesn't do well on
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Super Tuesday, but he was close enough to Bernie Sanders,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: it will be Mike Bloomberg's fault. It will be Mike
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Bloomberg's fault.
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: Listen, Mike Bloomberg, Let's just be honest. I don't think
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: Bloomberg would have won a city council race in New
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: York without money. He's a bad politician. He doesn't like people.
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: He's not a good speaker. He's not deft up there.
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: He told his opening debate joke 45 minutes into the thing,
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: and it was terrible.
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: And he told it so poorly, people thought he was bragging.
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: The point is, if he didn't have billions and billions
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: of dollars, he wouldn't be on the stage. And you
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: can't win that way, I don't think.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about Elizabeth Warren, who made her most pointed
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: contrast yet against Bernie Sanders. but also picked up right
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: where she left off in the last debate and continue
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: to tear Mike Bloomberg to shreds. Let's listen.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Who funded Lindsey Graham's campaign for reelection last time? It
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: was Mayor Bloomberg. And that's not the only right wing
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: senator that Mayor Bloomberg has funded. In 2016, he dumped
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: 12 million dollars into the Pennsylvania Senate race. to help
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: re-elect an anti-choice, right-wing Republican senator. And I just want
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: to say, the woman challenger was terrific. She lost by
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: a single point. In 2012, he scooped in to try
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: to defend another Republican senator against a woman challenger. That
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: was me. It didn't work, but he tried hard. I
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: don't care how much money Mayor Bloomberg has. The core
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party will never trust him. He has
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: not earned their trust.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: I will.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: And the fact that he cannot earn the trust of
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: the core of the Democratic Party means he is the
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: riskiest candidate standing on this stage.
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: All right, Senator Warren, thank you.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Mayor Bloomberg, would you like to respond?
• 39:35
  Speaker 6: Mayor Bloomberg. I have been training for this job since
• 39:39
  Speaker 6: I stepped on the pile that was still smoldering on 9-11.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: I know what to do.
• 39:45
  Speaker 6: I've shown I know how to run a country. I've
• 39:47
  Speaker 6: run the city, which is almost the same size, bigger
• 39:50
  Speaker 6: than most countries in the world. I'm the one choice
• 39:54
  Speaker 6: that makes some sense. I have the experience, I have
• 39:57
  Speaker 6: the resources, and I have the record. And all of
• 40:00
  Speaker 6: the sideshows that the senator wants to bring up have
• 40:03
  Speaker 6: nothing to do with that.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: What did you guys think of Warren's overall strategy last night?
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, the last debate she came there to
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: rip Mike Bloomberg to pieces. And I think the theory there,
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: to me, seems like it's something along the lines of,
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: I know there's two things that have to happen. People
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: need to see me as the one alternative, and people
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: need to start having questions about Bernie Sanders. And she
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: seemed unwilling in the previous debate to do half of
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: that work. But she was quite willing, indeed gleeful, to
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: do the work of taking Mike Bloomberg apart. I think
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: in this debate, she did the other half of that
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: work as well. I think she made her most cogent
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: and substantive argument for her own candidacy versus Bernie Sanders.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: And then I think in part because But.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: That wasn't the fun stuff for her.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: She did it because she had. She was saying that
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: because she felt like she had to say it. But
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: she was enjoying the Bloomberg stuff a lot more.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: Winning the nomination is her job, but destroying Mike Bloomberg
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: is her passion.
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, look, sometimes I watch these debates and
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: I feel like Warren wants to prevent Mike Bloomberg from
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: being president more than she wants the job for herself. Which, frankly,
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: that speaks incredibly highly of her and her character and
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: the fact that she is someone who cares about doing
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: the right thing above all else. I thought that the
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: portion of her answer where she started talking about Bloomberg
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: donating to Lindsey Graham and doing that in South Carolina
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: was incredibly effective. I didn't know that he had donated
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: to Lindsey Graham. I fucking hate Lindsey Graham. That really
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: pissed me off. That's outrageous. Now, that exchange goes on
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: for a while and then you start to hear more
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: about the NDA issue and some of the really offensive
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: comments Bloomberg made to former employees. And that was another
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: instance where Warren, uh, came in with a very tough line.
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: And I thought the audience reaction of booing her made
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: it land. It's funny. And I think that was unfair
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: to her and it bothered me.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I think there's a strategic reason I was
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: thinking about this for actually, uh, cause a lot of
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: people were like, well, she's going after Bloomberg too much and,
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: and Bernie's the front runner and she did go after Bernie. But, um,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: There's a strategic reason to go after Bloomberg as well
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: for Elizabeth Warren. And that is all the non-Bernie candidates
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: right now are fighting really hard for media attention. And
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: by her having big moments attacking Mike Bloomberg, she continues
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: to get media attention. The other result of that is
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: she would probably rather Joe Biden do well than Mike
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: Bloomberg do well. Because if she continues to take down
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: Mike Bloomberg and Biden does better, that puts pressure on
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: Bernie as well. What she needs is basically for Bernie
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: to have trouble amassing a pledge delegate plurality that's insurmountable
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: or a majority. And then she needs to just be
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: able to stay in this as long as she can
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: in hopes of the dynamic change and that as the
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: states continue, she picks up more and more delegates.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: And more people see her as an alternative.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: More people see her as a... Right. And I think
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: that's part of the strategy of going after Bloomberg there
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: as opposed to just being in a narrow race against
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: her and Bernie. Ultimately, I think it's smart. And I
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: didn't quite get it at first until I started watching
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: it unfold last night. And I was like, oh, yeah,
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: now I sort of get why.
• 43:07
  Speaker 7: She's doing it.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't understand it either until I saw them
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: sort of seeming to be telegraphing that their goal is
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: to come out of Super Tuesday with three people. Right.
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: With her, Biden, and Bernie.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Which is her ideal set of three.
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: And basically looking at this and saying, if she can
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: get people to see her as the center pole between
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: the two of them, which I actually think is a
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: substantively fair claim to make, she can somehow, it's a
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: long shot, but somehow build a lead over the kind
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: of states that follow Super Tuesday.
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: And clearly they're all out of money. Right, and her
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: debate performance at the last debate raised Elizabeth Warren a
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: ton of money. You had Pete pitching donors from the
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: stage trying to raise money. So I do think, like,
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: getting in the mix, making a splash, getting donors fired
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: up is a key part of your calculus.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Again, though, you're right. The key is she has to
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: start winning somewhere.
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: She has to win.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: You know, and you could argue that she's gotten more
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: media attention than most who have finished where she's finished
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: at this point. And so, you know, can she pull
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: a third in South... South Carolina's tough, too, for her, right?
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: Because.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: You would think maybe it could go Biden, Bernie and her.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: But then, of course, fucking Tom Steyer's there, you know.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: And so could she pull a third in South Carolina?
• 44:13
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: With with Tom Steyer spending that much money, it's going
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: to be hard. So then she has to look to
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: Super Tuesday and think, OK, Massachusetts is there. So maybe
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: she can do well and maybe she has to win
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: Massachusetts at that point.
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: Bernie knows and Bernie's spending like crazy.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: In Massachusetts to try to put her away and he's
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: going to go there. And are there other states that are,
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: you know, in Super Tuesday that are somewhat favorable to
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: her that maybe she can get second? Maybe, you know,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: she can get another look?
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: Arkansas.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: Arkansas, right.
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: It's a tough slog for her.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: The goal is to come out of Super Tuesday plausible.
• 44:42
  Speaker 9: Right.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: It's plausible. And that is achievable. She's not going to
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: win it. She's not going to have the most delegates
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: out of it. Just a plausible mathematical argument that makes sense.
• 44:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: I do think maybe we might look back and think
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: that the person most screwed by the chaotic nature of
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: the debate was Elizabeth Warren. You know, she... came out
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: of the Nevada debate with a really strong performance. They
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: are trying to make the claim that the early vote
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: prevented us from seeing the bump coming out of that.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: If she had had a strong debate, it might have
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: helped her to continue the momentum we've seen in some
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: of the national polls around her candidacy and their claim
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: that she could be another alternative to Bernie and one
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: that speaks to the ideological diversity of the party.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: So we've told you before that one of our many
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: challenges is that the contested primary has given Trump a
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: head start in the general. Democratic candidates are spending money
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: against each other. He's spending money on building an enormous
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: field operation.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: That's why we're launching a brand new fund to help
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: build our field operation starting right now. It's called Leave
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: It All on the Field, and it will help support
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: groups who are putting organizers in the battleground states to
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: make sure we do what we have to do to win.
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: The first group we're helping is called Organizing Corps 2020,
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: which is recruiting, training, and paying 1,000 organizers ahead of
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: the general election in eight key battleground states.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Current Corps members have already been making voter and volunteer calls, canvassing,
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: and organizing on college campuses.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: All of this work will directly support our eventual Democratic nominee,
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: and every Democratic campaign supports this effort.
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: So please donate at votesaveamerica.com slash field.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: It's almost March 3rd, which means it's almost Super Tuesday,
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: the day when 15 states and jurisdictions with about 40%
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: of the population have primaries. If you're trying to make
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: sense of the Democratic primary and what voters are looking
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: for in November, check out season two of my new show,
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: The Wilderness. I talk to strategists, organizers, candidates, and voters
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: in battleground states around the country to figure out what
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: it will take for Democrats to beat Donald Trump. We
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: went to the four most competitive regions on the road
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: to 270 electoral votes and 51 Senate seats and tried
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: to unpack the complicated, and surprising reasons voters support particular
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: candidates or choose not to participate at all. Subscribe and
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: listen to all six episodes of Season 2 of The
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: Wilderness on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: So Tuesday night was Mayor Bloomberg's second time on the
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: debate stage. Aside from getting pummeled by Elizabeth Warren, he
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: also repeatedly made an electability case, talked about how he's
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: helped elect Democrats, and made some pretty terrible jokes. Let's listen.
• 47:11
  Speaker 6: Let's just go on the record. They talked about 40 Democrats.
• 47:13
  Speaker 6: 21 of those were people that I spent $ 100 million
• 47:17
  Speaker 6: to help elect. All of the new Democrats that came
• 47:21
  Speaker 6: in and put Nancy Pelosi in charge and gave the
• 47:24
  Speaker 6: Congress the ability to control this president, I got them. Well,
• 47:29
  Speaker 6: I think what's right for New York City isn't necessarily
• 47:32
  Speaker 6: right for all the other cities. Otherwise, you'd have a
• 47:34
  Speaker 6: naked cowboy in every city. Misconception that I'm six feet tall.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: That one was particularly egregious at the end there because
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: Tom Steyer got the first moment out of the box.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: He had to think on his feet a bit. Mike
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: Bloomberg had all the other answers before to come up
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: with his misconception and to come up with his motto.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: And it was a bit of a mess by the
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: time they got to him. And he's a really smart guy.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: So it was sort of shockingly not good.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: The naked cowboy thing. What the fuck was that?
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: Get out of New York, guys. Sounding like you said
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: that you bought a whole bunch of members of Congress
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: was crazy. And revealing. Very revealing.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: I also do think, look, there's a lot of people,
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: I think myself included, that if Mike Bloomberg weren't running
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: for president would be much more generous in describing his
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: work on guns and his work on climate and his
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: work supporting the Democrats that helped win the House.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Which was very laudable work, let's be honest.
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: And he is, you know, I think actually given that
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: we do have this sort of test, a political science
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: test of two billionaires, Bloomberg does offer something more than
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: just money. He was a three-term mayor of New York City.
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: He built an incredibly successful business. So he has a
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: case to make. And I do think sometimes my outrage
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: at someone coming in in the last minute trying to
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: spend their way to the nomination without doing the political
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: work on the ground, without learning, without growing, without talking
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: to people, thinking that they're above all that work, that
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: real frustration that I feel about someone doing what I
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: believe is undermining to our democracy, sometimes I think makes
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: me forget to... be honest about the parts of his
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: record that I think are laudable. That said, I'm glad
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: you're using your money for good causes. You wrote a
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: check and it's really good that you did that. It's
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: really important that you did that, but what do you
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: want for it? Why do you think? Because you paid
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: all that money that makes you a better person or
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: owed in some way, our deference.
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: He's a rich guy. He wants to fucking be president.
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: I look, I appreciate the money you spent. I appreciate
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: the causes he supported, but he endorsed George W. Bush
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: in 2004. He supported the Iraq war. He, he, he
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: was such a prick to Barack Obama in his 2012
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: pseudo endorsement, which he himself, we now know referred to
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: as backhanded. So, you know, I just, I feel like
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: even that's that comment you felt you had to say
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: is paying deference to his money. And I don't, I'm
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: not doing that as a voter. No, I'm not doing
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: it as a voter either. I just, um, uh, I
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: guess it's just sort of like, Mike Bloomberg, as the donor,
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: has done a lot of good things. He has absolutely
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: no fucking business being on that stage.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: I'll just take it from a pure electability standpoint, because
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: I think if there was a chance that he's the
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: most electable Democrat against Donald Trump, we would be having
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: a different conversation, and we could. But talk about not
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: proving that case in any fucking way. I think when
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth Warren made the point that he's in many ways
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: the riskiest choice on stage to face Donald Trump, I
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: think it was a very good point.
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: I agree.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Um, he doesn't have the trust of the democratic base, uh,
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: like you said, and he's not, now that he's done
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: two debates and I think you could argue that he
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: was better in this debate than he was in the
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: first debate, but in the first debate, it was probably
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: the worst performance of any candidate I've seen in all
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: of 2020, 2019. So it's a low bar, right? And
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I think, no. So I, I, I think that he is,
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: we've said this a million times, um, before he was
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: in the race that the candidate who needs to take
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: the candidate who's going to take on Donald Trump needs
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: to be nimble, needs to be agile, needs to understand
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: the media environment, all that kind of stuff. And, I
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: guess you could argue that he maybe understands the attention-grabbing
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: nature of the media environment, and he's able to do
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: that with all of his money. He's got a good team. Yeah,
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: he's got a great team. But in terms of performance,
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: in terms of stepping on that debate stage and making
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: a case for himself, you know, he got out bits
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: and pieces last night once in a while, right? He said,
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: you know, I ran a very progressive city and was
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: still elected three times, even though I'm a former Republican,
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. Like, he made it here
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: and there, but the stumbles, he was unsure of himself,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: the jokes, he's just like.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: He's a terrible politician.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: You think about him standing on stage next to Donald Trump,
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: and I realize that's not the, like, apotheosis of, like,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: what we should be judging every candidate on, like, you know,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: because Donald Trump might not debate. But Donald Trump, I think,
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: would wipe the floor with him.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: And, you know, it's not just about, when we say
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: standing on stage side by side, regardless of whether there's
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: a debate or not, you will be sharing the national
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: stage with Donald Trump, and you will be compared. I
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: will also say, too, that as we get closer and
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: closer to Super Tuesday, this is, you know, there haven't been,
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: there have only been a few contests you know, this
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: can change, right? Like we're, you know, Bernie has an
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: incredible advantage going into Super Tuesday, but it's not over.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: But I got to say, you know, millions of young
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: people are, you know, believe in Bernie Sanders and they
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: think they're on the precipice of making them the nominee.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: And if someone like Mike Bloomberg were able to buy
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: his way to preventing that, I think you'd see people
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: on the streets and I think I might be there
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: with them.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: All right. Let's talk about Pete Buttigieg, who still needs
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: to show that he can attract support from voters of
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: color if he wants to have a chance in South
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: Carolina or on Super Tuesday. He spent a good deal
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: of last night's debate taking on Bernie. But there was
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: also a moment when he was given the opportunity to
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: talk about whether Mike Bloomberg's stop and frisk policy was racist.
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: Here it is.
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: I'm not here to score points. I come at this
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: with a great deal of humility because we have had
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: a lot of issues, especially when it comes to racial
• 52:45
  Speaker 5: justice and policing in my own community. And I come
• 52:48
  Speaker 5: to this with some humility because I'm conscious of the
• 52:50
  Speaker 5: fact that there's seven white people on this stage talking
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: about racial justice.
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: None of us.
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: None of us have the experience, the lived experience of,
• 53:03
  Speaker 5: for example, walking down the street or in a mall
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: and feeling eyes on us regarding us as dangerous without
• 53:10
  Speaker 5: knowing the first thing about us just because of the
• 53:12
  Speaker 5: color of our skin. None of us have the experience
• 53:15
  Speaker 5: that black women have had that drives that maternal mortality
• 53:19
  Speaker 5: gap that we are all rightly horrified by of going
• 53:21
  Speaker 5: into a doctor and being less likely to have your
• 53:23
  Speaker 5: description of being in pain believed because of your race.
• 53:27
  Speaker 5: Since we don't have the experience, the next best thing
• 53:29
  Speaker 5: we can do is actually listen to those who do.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: What'd you guys think of that answer? And then, you know,
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: what is Pete's path forward here?
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: I thought that answer was laudable honesty. It showed self-awareness.
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: It was one of his better moments.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: In the debate.
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: I mean, I do think Pete has a very unsure
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: path forward if he has a bad performance in South Carolina.
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: And The key to that performance has been African-American voters
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: for a very long time. And seemingly over the course
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: of several months, he has failed to make inroads in
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: those communities. So I don't know that that answer is
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: going to be enough to fix it. I think that's right.
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: You know, I thought, you know, he's clearly trying to
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: figure out how to talk about these issues. This is
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: a new tack that he took in this debate to
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: talk about these issues. And I think in a more
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: forthright way or to try to try to relate on
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: on on on. matters of race in a way that
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: he hasn't successfully done in the past. But he's out
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: of time. He's out of time. And the Democratic nominee
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: will be somebody that earns black votes. And he hasn't
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: been able to do that. So we will see the
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: result from South Carolina. And unless there is a big change,
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: he does not have a path to become the nominee.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: Do you feel differently about Elizabeth Warren?
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: First of all, she's her polls have been a little
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: bit better. I mean, they're not national nationally. And, you know,
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: I don't think she's done as well with black voters
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: as Bernie has, but I do think that it's not
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: been as low in a lot of polls as it
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: has been for Amy Klobuchar and Mayor Pete.
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: That's all.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: In the results of the primaries, though.
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, Pete has overperformed compared to Elizabeth Warren.
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: That's absolutely true.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: But I'm just I'm asking this because, again, I go
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: back to where where I started earlier, which is I
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: think that that Warren and Pete are maybe the best debaters.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: I think there has been a set of mostly college
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: educated white people following this primary very closely. who love
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth Warren, who for a while really liked Pete, still
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: like Pete. Pete did well with that subset in Iowa
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: and New Hampshire. And I think some of it could
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: be on Warren and Pete, but some of it is
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: on factors beyond their control on why they hadn't been
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: able to break through with non-college white voters who don't
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: pay as much attention, black voters and Latino voters in
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: this race, right? I mean, and the only two candidates
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: who really have broken through with those voters are Joe
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: Biden and Bernie Sanders, who were two candidates who who
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: all those voters have known before and have high ID.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: It's just an interesting sort of larger structural thing that
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: goes beyond individual candidate abilities.
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: I do think that's true. Again, I don't think we know...
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: We don't know what this race would look like if
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: Tom Steyer wasn't eating 17% of both South Carolina. But
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: I do think that it is... I do think that
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: Elizabeth Warren, I think, is better positioned to make inroads
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: than Mayor Pete. And now at this point, given how
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: late it is in the game, Amy Klobuchar. And, you know,
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: Pete has not just... struggle to win over African-American voters,
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: he has had a consistent liability and a tax on
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: him on those issues. And I do think Elizabeth Warren
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: has been a bit savvier in her rhetoric throughout the
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: campaign to constantly come back.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: You could argue she's tried a lot harder.
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: She has tried a lot harder. So look, you know,
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: the problem we have with Elizabeth Warren is she's underperformed
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: everywhere with everyone, right? And so I do think it's
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: less about a liability with one constituency of the Democratic
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: Party than just her failure to perform as a candidate,
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: which is not a good argument for Elizabeth Warren.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about Pete's best friend, Amy Klobuchar, who lucky
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: for him was a safe distance away last night. It
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: took a while for the moderators to actually get to Klobuchar.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: But here she is making her case as the electable pragmatist.
• 56:54
  Speaker 7: If we spend the next four months tearing our party apart,
• 56:59
  Speaker 7: we're going to watch Donald Trump spend the next four
• 57:02
  Speaker 7: years tearing.
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: Our country apart.
• 57:04
  Speaker 7: So my argument here is that we need to get
• 57:07
  Speaker 7: back to what's happening right now. clear choice of who's
• 57:11
  Speaker 7: going to lead this party. And I am the only
• 57:14
  Speaker 7: one in the New Hampshire debate when asked if we
• 57:16
  Speaker 7: had a problem with a socialist leading the ticket that
• 57:19
  Speaker 7: raised my hand.
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: I like Bernie.
• 57:21
  Speaker 7: We came in together to the Senate. But I do
• 57:23
  Speaker 7: not think that this is the best person to lead
• 57:26
  Speaker 7: the ticket. And if you want to talk about getting
• 57:28
  Speaker 7: things done and make a comparison, According to Vanderbilt University
• 57:33
  Speaker 7: in Tennessee, last Congress, I was the most effective Democrat
• 57:37
  Speaker 7: in the U.S.
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: Senate on 15 metrics.
• 57:39
  Speaker 7: Bernie and Elizabeth were in the bottom half.
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: It matters.
• 57:43
  Speaker 7: It matters if you can actually get things done.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: I didn't notice the booze there the first time either.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: So there were some Warren and Bernie fans in there.
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: It's also just striking how every clip we play, there's
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: just a bunch of fucking chatter underneath.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: The crowd thing was bad.
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: The crowd, the other contestants, it was like a... You know,
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: like if you board a plane and they're following the
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: rules of boarding, everybody lines up nicely. But if it's
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: pretty clear that they're not enforcing the rules, everybody just
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: piles on and there's only two rules, right? There's just like,
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: there's either you're on the plane or you're off the plane.
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: Everybody wanted on the plane.
• 58:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, that was probably one of her better moments,
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: but I didn't think it was anything that was particularly,
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: you know, jumped out at me in terms of the
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: debate generally. Yeah.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean, we just, look, we just debated
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: sort of, does Pete have a path? Does Warren have
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: a path? And I think that they're both in a
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: better position than Amy Klobuchar is. She seems to be banking,
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: and they're not in great positions. She seems to be banking.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: Klobuchar seems to be banking on doing well in Minnesota
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: and maybe some of the Dakotas. You know, that's not
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: a lot of pledged delegates.
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: I also think, you know, she didn't speak for a
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: long time. That's not on her.
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: It's totally unfair.
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: It's totally unfair. At the same time, there was a
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: kind of hunger for, that she brought to the debate
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: that she won in New Hampshire, and it just seemed absent.
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: She just didn't seem, she felt, it seemed like she
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: was behaving like a candidate who doesn't exactly see herself
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: as having a path.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: Finally, Tom Steyer was also there after failing to qualify
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: for last week's debate in Nevada and getting a pretty
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: dismal show in the caucus. He's polling fairly well in
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: South Carolina, as we said, just enough to pose a
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: threat to Joe Biden. And last night he used his
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: fairly limited speaking time to call for party unity.
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: Here he is.
• 59:20
  Speaker 9: This conversation shows a huge risk for the Democratic Party.
• 59:26
  Speaker 9: We are looking at a party that has decided that
• 59:29
  Speaker 9: we're either going to support someone who's a democratic socialist
• 59:34
  Speaker 9: or somebody who has a long history of being a Republican.
• 59:38
  Speaker 9: And let me say that I got into this race
• 59:40
  Speaker 9: because I wanted to fight for economic justice, for racial justice,
• 59:45
  Speaker 9: and to make sure we had climate justice for the
• 59:47
  Speaker 9: American people.
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: And I am scared.
• 59:51
  Speaker 9: If we cannot pull this party together, if we go
• 59:53
  Speaker 9: to one of those extremes, we take a terrible risk
• 59:57
  Speaker 9: of reelecting Donald Trump.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Tom Steyer is scared.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: Look, I am.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: Tom Steyer got in the race and I didn't expect much.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: And he sort of went beyond my own expectations. There
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: were times in the debates where I think he's had
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: good moments. He's clearly committed to a lot of progressive causes.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: He speaks well about climate justice. He speaks well about
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: racial justice. Um, and, and, and, you know, he can
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: talk about reparations really well, but I have to be
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: honest at this point in the, in the primary, I'm
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: just like, what are you doing there, man? What are
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: you doing there?
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: It's also like, uh, you know, it's, it's been a
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: week since Bloomberg, uh, uh, uh, bellied. What's the, what's
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: it called when you splash into a pool belly flop
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: in the previous debate. Uh, and so for him to
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: say like, oh, that's what we're choosing between. That doesn't,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: didn't feel true. that that's exactly the contours of the
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: debate at this point.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: It was weird to put Bloomberg out there as the
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: other option.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: Oh, so we should go with the better billionaire? And
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: also just, okay, but why you? He never made a
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: case for himself. This idea that, okay, you think Bernie's
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: too far left or can't win, and you think Bloomberg
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: was a Republican. You're the middle of that. Not Joe Biden,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: not Elizabeth Warren, not Amy Klobuchar, not Mayor Pete. There's
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: just no argument that he's been able to successfully make
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: for why he should be the choice over these other people.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: The only argument is money and Bloomberg has more and
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: has done better in polls with that money.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: I guess I had a different reaction to Steyer last night.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 4: Like I thought there were a few moments in the
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: debate where he was able to step back and kind
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: of elevate the conversation and do sort of a look
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: common sense. This is the real thing we're fighting against,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: which is Donald Trump, which, you know, I don't know
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: that it drew me to his side or made me
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: want to vote for him, but it was better than
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: some of the other shit you heard up there.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: He does have a way of, um, sometimes saying what
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: voters are actually, what a lot of intense Democratic voters
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: who are paying attention to this are thinking. You're scared.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: You're wondering why we're not talking about Donald Trump more.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: He does kind of get that once in a while.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: But I just think at this point, I think one
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: of my frustrations is that it is getting late and
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: we're still having seven. We added one more candidate to
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: the debate stage from the last debate. It seemed like
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: we were going in the right direction by slimming the
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: debate stage down. Now we're enlarging it again.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I should say, you know, I was pretty
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: critical of Steyer just there, and I stand by every
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: word of it. But Tom Steyer in previous debates has
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: talked about uniting the party. I do think he's incredibly
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: heartfelt on the stage. So I am very critical of him,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: and I don't believe he should be in this race anymore.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: But I have come to see, I have a positive
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: view of Tom Steyer after all this.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 9: That's all.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: All right, final question. Where are we now headed into
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: South Carolina in Super Tuesday?
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: I think we're in hell, John.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 4: We're certainly in more uncertainty. I agree with you.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: I wonder if it's not pretty simple, which is the
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: fundamental dynamics of this race are that Bernie Sanders will
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: be the nominee unless one alternative emerges. We come out
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: of this debate, which was a messy, sloppy, uh, um,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: ugly conversation, which no one looked particularly good. So I
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: don't know who got helped. And if nobody got helped
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: and the situation hasn't changed and the situation hasn't changed,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: Bernie did. Bernie, Bernie came away.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's a fair assessment.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: And I, you know, uh, I do think I think
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: probably not just because of the debate, but because of
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: some of the other developments, the Clyburn endorsement, the polls
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: heading into South Carolina, that Biden is in a probably
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: the strongest position he's been in for a while, probably
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: since before Iowa, when he had horrible results in Iowa
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: and New Hampshire. And now Biden sort of has this
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: moment again to basically step up and prove that he's
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: the one to take on Bernie Sanders and Super Tuesday
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: and I don't think it will force Mike Bloomberg from
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: the race, but at least it could drag Bloomberg's poll
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: numbers down a little bit more. And the question for
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden is, can he sort of execute now? Can
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: he step up where he hasn't been able to step
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: up before? Because, you know, time is running short.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, look, Bloomberg got beat up a lot
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: last night, and he's not even on the ballot in
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: South Carolina, so he doesn't even have a chance to
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: show something right this weekend. I would worry if I
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 4: were Bloomberg, given the trajectory and the momentum his campaign has.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: At some point, you cannot buy your way through getting the.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: Shit kicked out of you.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is also just, I was thinking about this
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: this morning, and it's not a particularly useful observation at
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: this point, but I do feel, I do think one
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: of the reasons I feel like kind of, I don't know,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: kind of like a dull fear is not just because
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: of how ugly the debate was, it's how much external,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: how many external factors have interceded into what is in
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: this incredibly important primary. It's the mess in Iowa. It's
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: an ugly debate right before South Carolina. Simply the fact
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: that the calendar has proven to be, I think, so
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: compressed in a way that has left these candidates scrambling
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: and unsure how to kind of make their best case
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: as Super Tuesday is three days after this primary. The
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: involvement of billionaires coming in and throwing hundreds of million
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: dollars and kind of scrambling the polls and changing the
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: dynamics of the race and becoming a force, even if
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: neither one of them has really any significant shot of
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: being the nominee. And all of that left me a
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: bit just sort of worried that in this incredibly important moment,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: we are coming up against so many obstacles on top
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: of all of the ones we know that will be
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: waiting for us once we do have a nominee.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people are going to have to pull it together
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: once we have a nominee. No, I mean, look, the
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: freak out about Bernie as a potential nominee this week
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: from A lot of the Democratic establishment, the media has
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: worried me because like we've all expressed concerns about Bernie's
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: electability on this pod. But I think we've expressed them
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: in sort of a I don't know, an even keeled way.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: And I was sort of surprised to see the level
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: of concern from a lot of Democrats and not like
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: the fucking James Carville types who start screaming on television
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: because they're just that's going.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: To be them.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: But, you know, actual Democratic officials who aren't sort of
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: prone to this kind of thing. And I think and look,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: and part of this is I think Bernie did a
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: good job. I think Bernie did a fairly good job
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: last night, probably not as well as he could have
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: sort of fending off the attacks. But I do think
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: Bernie has to keep in mind as he moves forward
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: that his job is going to be if he especially
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: if he's the nominee of the party reassurance and reassure
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: a lot of not just like establishment types in D.C.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: who are annoying, but like a lot of Democratic voters
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: out there that he needs. that he's going to be
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: able to be the strongest candidate against Donald Trump. So
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: we will see. All right. We will... I don't know
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: when we'll talk to you guys again. We're not going
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: to do a pod Thursday. Probably next week.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 4: Monday?
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: After the... Oh, yeah, Monday after the South Carolina results.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: Cool.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, cool. All right. We'll talk to you then.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 4: Bye.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: Pod Save America is a product of Cricket Media. The
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our assistant producer is Jordan Waller.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
• 1:07:03
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• 1:07:07
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