Latest / ZoukNerds • Learn | Build | Belong / How Slow is Too Slow? Mastering the Pace of Learning (S05 Ep68)

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How Slow is Too Slow? Mastering the Pace of Learning (S05 Ep68) · ZoukNerds • Learn | Build | Belong

0:00
Am I teaching too slow? Am I teaching too fast?
0:02
What should my students learn? There isn't a guidebook, A
0:06
playbook saying this, how you teach this dance.
0:08
There isn't. Please don't think that going to
0:11
Sao Paulo or going to Rio and learning the entire structure
0:14
for three to six months and then going back to whatever community
0:17
you come from and applying that is going to work because it's
0:21
not going to work. You perhaps only going to know
0:23
if the thing that you were doing was too fast, it was too slow.
0:25
One year later, six months later.
0:27
It's really hard at times to know as it's happening what's
0:31
going on. I'm sorry, I'm going to give you
0:32
a little bit of tough love here, but that problem starts with
0:35
you, the person in charge, because everything came top
0:39
down. I think that a lot of the
0:40
problems in communities come from the community leaders, not
0:44
from the community members. If there is anything in you that
0:48
wants to create a new culture for that scene, focus on
0:51
bringing new people really that you can go from scratch.
0:57
How slow is too slow or how fast is too fast?
1:01
When teaching and learning dance?
1:04
We're talking about the core anxiety for every community
1:08
leader, teacher, and student. Should you focus on moves first
1:12
or soft skills? We'll share our perspective on
1:16
why there's no formula, only the right decision for your
1:20
community and personal dance. But what is that?
1:24
Well, let's find out. Hello.
1:27
Hello everyone, and welcome back to Zook Nerds.
1:30
In this episode, I'm joined by Gibrada to tackle a highly
1:34
requested topic, the pacing of learning and teaching in dance.
1:40
We'll discuss the balance between fast moving patterns and
1:45
slow developing soft skills like torsion and connection and argue
1:50
that every community must prioritize based on its own
1:54
needs and values. It's about being intentional
1:58
with your time progression and content.
2:01
So let's go. Hello everyone, my name is
2:13
Alison Sanji and let's welcome back our beautiful Co host Gee
2:17
Prada. Hello, Gee.
2:19
Hello, Alison. Hello everybody, and welcome
2:21
back to Zook Nerds. In this episode, we're going to
2:25
be talking about how slow is too slow or how fast it is too fast
2:31
And compared to what? Compared to who?
2:34
When it comes to learning or teaching Brazilian Zook, This is
2:39
a topic that everyone wants to talk to us about when they get
2:44
some time to talk to us in person or book a coaching call
2:48
with us. And currently we're actually
2:51
talking to a few communities together and separately about
2:55
this very topic. People who are starting their
2:59
community or taking the next step into the community, let's
3:03
say upgrading or the next chapter of a community and they
3:08
have this fear and anxiety of am I teaching too slow?
3:13
Am I teaching too fast? What should my students learn?
3:17
Should they learn just the moves and worry about the soft skills
3:20
later? Or should I start with the soft
3:23
skills and the connection and the touch and then worry about
3:26
the moves later? Or should we combine and make a
3:29
hybrid of it? What to do?
3:32
Give us the formula. Well, sorry, not sorry.
3:37
There is no actual formula, but with our experience, hopefully
3:42
we'll share something that can match your necessity because
3:47
that's the key. At the end of the day, every
3:50
community is different and every community needs something
3:54
different. So Guy, what comes to your mind
3:58
as we start talking about this? So many things, Jesus.
4:01
I think this episode is going to resonate a lot with the local
4:06
teachers, the local organizers who are in the daily efforts of
4:10
growing their community and in the effort of developing their
4:15
syllabus, their curriculum and deciding what to teach in what
4:18
order, Who comes first, who comes second.
4:20
Here in Washington, DC, we have this ongoing, never ending
4:26
wandering discussion. Are we going too slow?
4:30
Are we going too fast? I think we need to do teach more
4:34
of this, teach more of that. And it's so funny because when
4:39
we have these meetings at times and this might happen with you,
4:43
that is listening, that is also in this stage.
4:47
We need to teach this and this and this and this and this and
4:49
this. And when they make the list and
4:51
we say, guys, we need 35 years to and how to put everything
4:56
that we just mentioned, then we need to improve the weight
4:59
transfer. We need to improve the torsion,
5:01
we need to improve the footwork, we need to blah, blah, blah,
5:05
blah. And like Allison said in the
5:08
Allison, do we do the movements first, the patterns first or the
5:12
soft skills first? One thing that I realized is a
5:17
pattern, a student can come in on a Tuesday night without
5:21
knowing the pattern and leave the class knowing the pattern,
5:25
the soft skill. They will need months and months
5:29
of that Tuesday night to start acquiring the soft skill.
5:34
So stuff that takes longer, for example, the matter of torsion,
5:40
that is a very important topic here for us when it comes to
5:44
testing Brazilian Zook, we have to do more torsion.
5:47
We have to put more torsion in class.
5:49
I would categorize torsion as a soft skill, because for you to
5:55
be able to modulate how much torsion your body does or how
6:00
much torsion your body needs to do for a particular movement,
6:04
requires more awareness of the movement of your body and all
6:08
these things. So we can do a whole class of
6:13
torsion. It doesn't mean that the next
6:16
week the student has already acquired the whole knowledge of
6:19
torsion. You know these are things that
6:21
need to be repeated often. Students will go and ask like
6:25
how much torsion do I need to do here?
6:28
And I'm like, well, for this movement, for what we're doing
6:31
today, for this amount of travelling and for this speed of
6:36
music, about this much. But you see how many variables
6:41
there are. That's why even though torsion
6:44
is like a mechanical skill, it's actually within a soft skill
6:48
too. Exactly.
6:50
So you have to make this decision of thinking about what
6:56
you were doing, what you're teaching as a system that
7:00
progresses over time, and be really intentional about working
7:04
the soft skills over time. Introduce them there and be
7:09
patient to let them develop. I think at times we dance
7:13
teachers are very unpatient with the process, especially when it
7:18
comes to the soft skills. But because they take more time,
7:23
if we put more time with the soft skill and not so much the
7:27
movement to give the sensation, we're moving too slow, we're not
7:30
doing anything. They're not learning anything
7:32
new because they come in and go and they come in and go, choose
7:35
and in, choose and out. And they still can't do it, you
7:38
know, And I was talking to Brenda recently and her efforts
7:45
in Bali and where they are making an effort to bring more
7:49
cohesion to teaching Brazilian Zook over there.
7:53
And making these experiments of how much of the movements we're
7:59
going to teach, how much of the classic patterns of Brazilian
8:02
Zook we're going to teach, and how much of the connection
8:06
aspects we're going to teach, the soft skills we're going to
8:08
teach, knowing that they take more time.
8:11
So he's making this decision. We are, you know, quote UN
8:16
quote, moving slower in what comes to teaching their patterns
8:22
because we are making a decision to teach the soft skills as
8:25
well. So that person in comparison to
8:28
another scene in another place might be indeed slower.
8:34
A person on a scene in another place in the space of four
8:36
months might be able to do more movements than this person who
8:40
is learning more intentionally the true things.
8:44
While the person in the same four months might be able to do
8:48
like maybe last things, but doing these last things really,
8:52
really well. And The thing is, when this
8:55
person travels to the other place, they might feel
8:59
uncomfortable because Oh my God, these people know so much.
9:01
I don't know that much how am I going to fit in here while the
9:05
person from the other place that dances with this person from
9:08
this place. Wow, you danced so well, you
9:12
feel so nice. This with you.
9:13
Where did you learn? How did you where did you come
9:16
from? So there will be this
9:18
interesting. I mean this is my prediction and
9:20
this is what I think can happen. This will be this interesting
9:24
encounter of different methodologies in the end of the
9:28
day is making a choice, you know, and that's what we say to
9:32
the people who come to us. What is better?
9:36
We don't know. There isn't a guidebook, A
9:38
playbook saying this, how you teach this dance.
9:42
There isn't There is a classic way to do that, you know, And
9:46
Alistair and I, we know that we broke away from the classic way
9:49
of teaching the dance, you know, a little bit, a lot sometimes.
9:53
Do we still have students and people learn from us that after
9:58
some time learning this way, you still see, oh, man, there's a
10:03
timing issue going on still. There is still a way.
10:06
Transfer is not very clear. Oh, the torture.
10:08
We need more torsion and more musicality, you know.
10:12
And last thing I want to share too is we often focus on the
10:19
things that our students don't have, like what is lacking in
10:22
them. And I invite people to see what
10:27
they have. What did they develop over these
10:31
years? Because when you look, when you
10:33
bring back the memory of how that person was when they came
10:38
in and how they are right now, six months, a year later, think
10:43
of what they have. Think of what they achieved.
10:45
Especially certain cases where we had people repeating their
10:48
basics courses more than once and seeing how much they have
10:54
conquered and how much they have acquired.
10:56
An awareness of the body is a really beautiful process too,
10:59
you know. That's it for now.
11:03
And please, please, please, for everybody who's listening, who
11:06
is not a teacher, just take all of this that we're saying and
11:10
apply to your dancing as a student as well.
11:12
How slow is too slow? How fast is too fast?
11:16
What are you prioritizing when you're learning?
11:19
Because as a student and as a teacher, we have this thing
11:24
about comparison, right? The grass is always greener on
11:28
the other side. So all, well, my students can do
11:31
this and this and this and this, and they are known for that, and
11:34
that's a good thing. But they don't do this and this
11:38
and this, which is something that other communities do.
11:41
I like to say that I don't make decisions.
11:45
There is an overlord over me that I look up to and I respect,
11:50
and that overlord is called community.
11:53
What do I mean by that? Everything that the community
11:57
wants or that we as a community want for the community is what
12:04
we're looking up to and making the decisions based on, for
12:09
example, of Bali. Let's imagine that the Valley
12:13
students in the Valley community, they prioritize the
12:17
human connection first, the touch, the inclusivity and all
12:22
of those things over the fancy, crazy technical movements or
12:27
nerdy patterns and entries and exits.
12:31
That's cool. So then the community tells you
12:34
exactly how you should structure your classes, your socials, how
12:39
many socials, what kind of music to play in the socials and in
12:43
the classes, and how many classes should you have per
12:46
week, All of those things. For example, another community
12:50
that is more based and focused on structure and understanding
12:56
what comes after what and why does this work this way or that
13:00
way That community values and searches a little bit more for
13:06
the brain and the nerdy side and we have to then make sure that
13:10
we are putting enough of the soft skills.
13:14
So I think that every community has kind of a natural tendency
13:21
to go towards. Some have a tendency to be more
13:25
technical, some have a tendency to be more focused on structures
13:29
and the details on the technique.
13:32
And other communities, they tend to go more towards the soft
13:36
skills, the things that are not so obvious in terms of patterns,
13:42
but they're very obvious in terms of how the quality of the
13:45
dance feels. Once again, I can compare the
13:49
communities that I know. Like for example, Guy, you
13:52
talked about Pali, and I can talk about Taipei here, where I
13:55
am teaching now. The students here, they're
13:58
really, really focused on understanding the structure,
14:02
practicing the structure. And we have to constantly then
14:08
introduce to them the soft skills and the reason why these
14:12
soft skills and these other details that are not so obvious,
14:17
they are not so structured, can influence and can improve their
14:23
understanding of the structure and the quality of movement.
14:27
It's a whole thing that can seem a little confusing.
14:31
But looking at my own dancing, it really helps me to understand
14:36
I am somebody that structure, rules and guidelines kind of
14:42
like help me with my life because my brain is so crazy
14:46
that if I don't have structures and rules, I kind of get lost
14:50
and I just keep stepping and walking.
14:52
But I'm not going anywhere. I kind of get stuck where I am.
14:57
So the structure really helps me to understand, OK, I do this And
15:01
from here I go to there. From here I go to there.
15:02
From here I go to there. So that to me is very natural.
15:06
Now I need help. I really need help from teachers
15:10
and from people who understand this better on how to see the
15:15
soft skills in the structure, on how to study and apply the soft
15:20
skills in the structure to improve my structure.
15:24
While other dancers and other people, they're more naturally
15:28
leaning towards those soft skills and touching human
15:31
connection. So for them, it's something that
15:33
like, yes, I feel that this is kind of like natural to me.
15:37
But then when it comes to structure, they need a little
15:40
bit more help because they just feel they just do.
15:43
So then when you ask them, OK, can you do A and then B and then
15:47
C? And they're like, no, can you
15:50
show me? I don't know how to get there,
15:52
but they do. They actually do know how to get
15:55
there and they do it all the time.
15:57
They just don't see things in that way.
16:00
But maybe if I describe that differently, OK, do a travelling
16:03
movement here and do a circular movement there, they might
16:06
actually do the movements that I just asked them to do, but they
16:10
see things or they categorize things differently.
16:14
So I think these are the two kind of like extremes that we
16:18
see in most communities. And the goal that we always have
16:23
and that Brenda is now trying to do in Bali and some people that
16:28
we're talking Japan is all they're trying to do that and
16:31
multiple communities that we've helped is to try to merge them
16:36
in a way that fits their community.
16:39
And that's really what we're talking about here.
16:42
Please don't think that going to Sao Paulo or going to Rio and
16:46
learning the entire structure for three to six months and then
16:50
going back to whatever city you come from, country, community
16:53
you come from and applying that is going to work because in my
16:59
my strong deep believing my core, it's not going to work
17:03
because everything is different. You can take that as an
17:07
inspiration, but let's just put Sao Paulo versus Bali.
17:11
I don't think that the students who are thinking that things are
17:15
too slower to fast in Bali will go to Sao Paulo and think the
17:18
same way. For example, in Bali, they might
17:22
think that the speed is just right, the content is just
17:25
right. But then if they try to apply
17:27
that in Sao Paulo, people are going to think, Oh my God, like
17:30
we haven't learned anything. Or if they try to take the
17:35
structure from Sao Paulo and take to Bali, people in Bali are
17:38
going to go like, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
17:41
I don't understand how this works because it's just one
17:44
thing after the other, but we're not processing, we're not
17:47
integrating it. Does that make sense?
17:50
I think this comparison kind of makes a little bit more clear
17:53
for people. Yeah, because I think like when
17:55
we think this slow or fast is for who, like the question you
18:00
ask when we start the episodes, Slow for who, fast for who?
18:05
Because many times it's too slow or too fast for the teacher.
18:10
The person who is teaching is by themselves anxious because they
18:15
think it's lower, fast, without input from the students
18:20
necessarily. You can see when there is
18:22
frustration, when the students are flustered for any reason,
18:26
but you're not certain until you ask or you hear directly from
18:31
them because sometimes it's perfect speech.
18:34
There was an occasion here in DC at District Zook that I try to
18:39
rotate with the students. We certain points, we put
18:44
ourselves in the rotation and we go around with everybody and
18:47
some classes have 2022 people. So we need to rotate to 1011
18:54
people and that takes time. That takes time.
18:58
And at certain points we were man, the class is moving too
19:01
slow. The class is not progressing
19:03
because of this. And we asked the simple question
19:07
guys, is it OK? And everybody was really
19:12
assertive in their affirmation. That is completely fine is
19:17
actually their favorite part of class dancing and receiving the
19:20
feedback straight directly from the teacher, You know, so the
19:25
story we created that is slow, but the moment that we asked,
19:29
no, it's not slow is actually perfect on point, you know, and
19:34
the experiences I think that are being tried is what if we do
19:42
things differently? What if we do things that might
19:46
indeed cause the person to take longer to learn the movements of
19:50
the dance they will eventually do.
19:53
It's just going to take longer. Can we live with, you know, I
19:56
think it's more the teachers holding their own anxiety, the
20:00
things that are moving slow in their own heads, in their own
20:04
understanding. And like we were saying, if we
20:07
take somebody from that scene and put in another scene, they
20:10
might be overwhelmed or like, Oh my God, yeah.
20:13
I don't know how to do these things.
20:15
But I think it's a valid experiment to make teaching
20:19
these two elements with the same amount of time.
20:22
It's almost like learning 2 languages at the same time.
20:26
You might take a little longer to speak the languages, but when
20:29
you do speak the languages, you speak both really well.
20:33
So it's going to a mindset of slow progression and really
20:37
enjoying the process now, focusing so much on the outcome
20:42
of it. How fast can I learn this thing
20:44
instead of that being what is new today, what is the topic
20:47
today and being the presence, we enjoy each topic one at a time
20:52
and and finding joy from it. And there is one more thing that
20:56
I wanted to mention that you mentioned Addison, about the
20:59
community and understanding your community.
21:02
I think there is a possible double edged sword on that point
21:09
because I have also seen organizers, community leaders
21:12
just to find the way they do things because the community,
21:16
because people here are like this, da da, da, da da, because
21:20
people here are da, da, da, da da.
21:21
At the same time that you have in mind your audience, which I
21:25
think is super important. For example, Tuesday night,
21:29
second time's lodge here at District Zook, it starts at 8:50
21:33
PM and it goes until 10:15 PM. So late, you know people are
21:39
tired right now. In the winter it gets dark at
21:41
4:00. So people are going to be tired
21:45
after work. Are not people who are mad
21:48
dedicated to learn the dance? They're taking privates and
21:51
training like crazy? Not at all.
21:53
It's a lot of people that most the time the most that they
21:57
dance is in class. So you align expectations in
22:02
that way. The thing though is that you are
22:05
still wanting to bring your thing.
22:08
So my most strong invitation is to not use sentences like, ah,
22:14
the people here are like this PPP, and that justify why you
22:19
don't do the thing that you'd like to do, not even perhaps
22:24
give it a try without giving a full try.
22:28
How would be this full try? You don't work this way, let's
22:32
try another way. You don't work this way.
22:35
Let's see if we can get another way.
22:37
You know, because I'm a firm believer, like Allison said, in
22:40
their guts, in their core, that the student shows excitement to
22:46
what you show excitement, which is something that Jaime told her
22:49
so many times. But go, Allison, you got
22:53
excitement about that. I want to ring Forest on top of
22:57
what you just said before I go to my next point.
23:00
A lot of the times when people say my community or my students
23:04
don't want this or they don't do this, don't appreciate this.
23:07
I'm sorry. I'm going to give you a little
23:08
bit of tough love here, but take it with a lot of love.
23:12
That problem starts with you because every community that
23:16
I've been to that uses that as an excuse.
23:20
The issue was the leader of the community, the person in charge.
23:26
Because everything came top down, that person was the person
23:31
already in the socials. Not prioritizing the connection,
23:35
not prioritizing the basic movements.
23:38
I would see them dancing with beginners and trying head
23:41
movements and counterbalances and then coming to me after the
23:45
social and going like, oh, my students don't want to learn
23:48
basics. I'm like, what do you do?
23:51
You want to learn basics? Do you like to do basics?
23:54
Do you enjoy the basics? Because like he said, from the
23:59
moment that you do and you show to your students how yummy the
24:04
basics are and how yummy a dance can be, even before you get to
24:10
the head movements and all those things, your students will get
24:14
inspired by it. And I've had on the opposite
24:18
side, gone to communities that they were really, really gentle
24:24
on their learning and very slow and very progressive.
24:27
And the students were like the happiest.
24:30
And the teachers were actually struggling to move them on
24:35
because they were like, oh, you know, I want to teach them a
24:38
little bit more of this, a little bit more of that.
24:40
But then the students were like, no, we're happy here.
24:43
We're happy here. And that's the thing.
24:45
I think that a lot of the problems in communities come
24:48
from the community leaders, not from the community members.
24:53
Because I think it's very natural for people to be
24:58
attracted by something that they can relate to.
25:01
So if your community is all the people who don't want to do
25:04
basics and they just want to do the crazy stuff they see on
25:08
Instagram, that's probably because you do that.
25:12
So then you attract people like that.
25:15
People come to District Zook, they come to Taipei, they come
25:18
to Melbourne, they come to Munich, Boston, the communities
25:22
that I personally helped a lot in the last few years.
25:25
And they say, wow, the students here, they really, they really
25:28
love their basics. And I said, well, and I think
25:31
that's just because the community leaders in those
25:34
places love the basics. So they brought me because I
25:37
love the basics. So then the natural thing just
25:39
happened. It wasn't because we forced
25:43
them. It was just because there was a
25:45
natural attraction and retention there.
25:48
And the other thing that I wanted to get into is the fact
25:51
that sometimes within the same community, there are different
25:56
groups and speeds, let's say. So then there's a comparison
26:00
that is not to another city, to another country, but it's within
26:05
the same 1. So let's say we're in this city.
26:08
And in this city, I want to teach more, like chill more,
26:12
take my time, a good mix of soft skills and technical structures.
26:17
But then there is another teacher who just teaches fast
26:20
movements, sugar high, lots of caffeine, just Bang Bang, Bang,
26:26
Bang, bang. Again, there's two different
26:30
sides in the same community. What is right, what is wrong?
26:34
I don't know, I asked the overlord.
26:38
Why do I value in the community? I value people who can dance
26:41
with anybody. I value people who can feel good
26:46
when they're dancing by themselves and when they're
26:49
dancing with others. I value the quality of touch,
26:54
the quality of movements over the number of movements.
26:58
So when I think about all of those things and the people
27:01
around me, if they all value the same thing, which like I said by
27:05
natural attraction, probably the people who come to my classes,
27:10
they also value that I stay confident with what I'm doing.
27:14
I don't feel the pressure to do just because the other one does,
27:18
right? And there is value in both.
27:22
To be honest, I think that there is value in teaching faster to
27:27
certain people, to certain levels.
27:30
Sometimes we go to workshops and we're like, hey guys, today
27:34
we're going to do a challenge. Just last weekend, Christina was
27:38
here, my dance partner in Taiwan, and the whole weekend
27:42
there was challenge. I told them, said, guys, you
27:45
come to my classes all the time. I know what you know, I know
27:48
what you don't know. But for this weekend, I wanted
27:51
to think about above that I want every class to be a challenge.
27:56
Some of them they are more like structural challenges, other are
28:00
physical challenges. The other one are more soft
28:02
skill challenges. But we prepared a different
28:04
class on each kind of side of the dance for them to
28:08
experience. And there's a point for them.
28:11
But then another Weekender we'll go and do and just say, hey
28:15
guys, this time we're going to take 5 steps back and take
28:19
everything apart and look at every little thing.
28:22
So I'm not saying teaching fast is wrong, but I'm saying that
28:27
you need to understand what the community needs or wants and if
28:33
you are valuing that in a way that inspires other people.
28:38
Sometimes I will value the fast and say look for this, this
28:42
works, this is the right thing. But then other times I'll go
28:46
like, no guys, we need to slow down because this requires more
28:50
attention and more time. Yes, I can hear you guys saying
28:55
or asking the question of how do I know what's fast, what's slow?
29:01
With a lot of experience, we've kind of got to a point where we
29:06
can have an idea just by talking to people.
29:09
But try not to do this alone. Make sure that you have
29:13
information and data because a lot of the times the teachers
29:17
are struggling and they're like literally stressing out, not
29:21
sleeping and crying because they don't know what to write for the
29:25
community or what to do for the community.
29:28
So my suggestion is to ask, have anonymous survey or ask people
29:35
in the community here, in every community that we've been to, we
29:39
always do this kind of surveys. Sometimes in their class chat we
29:43
just ask them or other times we ask at the social or after class
29:50
and we usually have some students who are like in
29:56
between. A lot of the times they're
29:58
trainees, they are kind of a student but also kind of working
30:03
with us. So they are in this beautiful
30:06
place where they get information from both sides.
30:08
They get a lot of Intel. So then we ask that student say,
30:12
hey, what have you been listening from the students when
30:14
they're talking to you? Are they happy?
30:16
Are they not happy? Do they want more of these or
30:18
more of that? So then you can also get some
30:21
Intel from these undercover people in the community.
30:25
So yeah, a lot of information out there for you to collect and
30:30
to use. But in the end, the Overlord is
30:34
what always guides me on how fast or how slow and deep inside
30:39
I think, deep inside what I think that community feels like.
30:47
Community just feels like everybody belongs.
30:50
That's kind of like the major goal for me.
30:53
Yeah, we're having this discussion.
30:55
Actually. We had a teacher training
30:56
recently and this question came up, how do you know we are going
31:01
too fast? How do we know we're going too
31:03
slow? And the answer from the teacher
31:06
who was facilitating the class was actually three.
31:11
And one of the answers was what I experienced.
31:15
So one of them is working your power of observation, basically
31:18
working your observation basically be invested in the
31:21
class, basically just looking at the group or looking at the
31:26
couple by couple, person by person and just seeing how they
31:30
are retaining the content in that particular class or all
31:33
over the classes. And that helps if you have
31:36
someone with you too. So like having an additional
31:40
pair of eyeballs, helping you also see what's going on.
31:46
That's the second one, right? Like your own, developing your
31:50
own sensitivity to notice these things.
31:52
And that comes over time. That comes with experience.
31:54
It's a muscle that you've developed.
31:57
The second one is having someone close to you to help with that.
32:00
And then like Allison say, sometimes the spy students and
32:03
there is a spy student over there that you talk to and that
32:07
person is that additional body that is giving information.
32:11
And the third is the one that I use the most, which is being
32:14
rotation. Being rotation with the
32:16
students, actually dancing with the students is perhaps for me
32:21
the most clear way that I have to know if I'm moving too fast
32:25
or slow. Sometimes in one rotation I
32:28
rotated everybody. Everybody's doing really well.
32:31
We're like, OK, let's go, let's move on.
32:32
So we are probably moving slow, you know.
32:35
So if I did 1 rotation, everybody's doing well.
32:37
Do I need to do a second one or can I move on to the next topic,
32:41
for example? But did the first rotation man
32:45
struggle? OK, we stop here.
32:48
Let's take our time. So you pace like that, you know.
32:53
And the other thing I wanted to mention, which perhaps is the
32:57
most difficult one, is you only going to know over time.
33:02
And that's the tricky part. You perhaps only going to know
33:06
if the thing that you were doing was too fast, is too slow one
33:09
year later, six months later. It's really hard at times to
33:13
know as it's happening what's going on.
33:18
We have had here experiments in which someone or another teacher
33:23
wanted to teach things faster, wanted to teach other topics,
33:28
and it was really exciting in the beginning and then started
33:31
doing the beginning. It had people in class and then
33:34
slowly started staying. People stopped going.
33:37
It was hard to keep the class engaged, and all these problems
33:43
started to come. But that took time.
33:46
It was not at first. So at first it couldn't perhaps
33:50
could realize that some people would be struggling doing the
33:53
thing. But it was not enough to, you
33:57
know, make a judgement call right away.
33:59
We're perhaps doing too fast, you know, same thing.
34:04
If you are going slow, you may be able to notice that people
34:08
are getting, you know, in their faces.
34:12
They're not coming to class very much.
34:14
Retention is a little complicated.
34:16
You have designs, but you don't know for sure unless, like
34:20
Allison said, you ask, you do a survey, and then you learn more
34:25
about these things. You know, So the challenge here,
34:30
guys, is realizing that it takes time for you to know if it's
34:35
working. And then once that time has
34:38
passed and you realize, no, it's not working very well, it's OK
34:42
to change. It's OK to pivot how many times
34:46
we changed our curriculum here, how many times we have like a
34:50
sheet on Google Drive that it has the tags for each
34:55
modification to the curriculum. And sometimes there was a year
34:59
that had the April version, the September version, the November
35:02
version, you know, the same year the curriculum would have this
35:07
little tweaks because we will be able to make quick adjustments
35:13
because it was not just one person observing, was a whole
35:17
group, a whole team observing. And then you have more people,
35:20
more input, you have the surveys and have everything informing
35:25
you in the end of the day. Coming back to how we started
35:30
these episodes, what to teach, what to prioritize soft skills,
35:37
the patterns, the classic patterns.
35:39
Do we teach the tools more first?
35:41
Do we teach about the connection and the touch and the weight
35:44
transfer first? How much time do we spend on
35:47
each thing? Man, I would say try it all.
35:51
Be patient. Know that it's going to take
35:53
some time for you to notice the results of that.
35:58
But I am very curious. I am very open to all the ideas.
36:02
I would love. My dream actually was to be able
36:07
to go to a place that has no scene at all and start really,
36:13
really from scratch with this idea of Brazilian Zook in this
36:18
place is going to start right here.
36:20
And what kind of tone we want to set.
36:23
You know, how can we develop a scene from scratch that follows
36:29
the values that I think are important for a healthy
36:31
community. And I do think it's really
36:33
important for a healthy community, especially in the
36:37
sense of how good the social dancing experience can be.
36:41
It is with this development of both the technical aspects of
36:47
the tools with the soft skills with the same amount of time
36:52
given to each one of them. And you being fine with the idea
36:58
that the students will leave the class, not be able to do what
37:03
you just spent an hour teaching them and perhaps leave the next
37:08
class is still not be able to do the thing that you spent an
37:12
additional hour teaching them. And two months later they're
37:17
still not able to do the thing be spending so much time.
37:23
But it's like I was saying to our instructors here, there is a
37:27
magical and silent process of growth happening on the back
37:30
that the body is learning something.
37:33
We just can't see it right away. The same way we can see a bonus,
37:38
you know, we can't see that the person is getting slowly better,
37:41
shifting weight more consciously, you know, and when
37:45
we do realize that we and the person is going to be when it's
37:49
way better. I am trying to develop the
37:52
ability right now. This is something that I'm
37:54
developing to be able to perceive the slow progression
37:58
more often because it's almost like, you know, when I was in
38:03
Brazil, living in Brazil, I saw my mom grow old.
38:07
But because I was there in the house with her, I couldn't
38:10
notice the process of aging. So I left Brazil and I stayed
38:15
two years away. When the pandemic hits, I stayed
38:18
two years away from home. When I came back, I was like,
38:21
mom, you know, you grow old. It was I real.
38:26
Then I realized the passing of time.
38:29
But when we are there, we don't necessarily realize the passing
38:33
of time. And I think it's the same thing
38:35
as a local teacher, you are there teaching and you've seen
38:38
this person going from level 1 to level 2 to Level 3.
38:41
They are progressing but don't necessarily you know what I
38:45
mean? I assume you don't necessarily
38:47
it's just happening. And I think the person also
38:50
don't don't necessarily perceive how much awareness they have
38:54
acquired. They perceive that now they can
38:56
do a tutor turn that they couldn't do before, but they
39:00
might not perceive that their posture is better, that their
39:04
balance is better. Their weight transfer is very
39:07
controlled that they don't follow that easily.
39:10
If they trip into something, they can pick themselves back
39:13
up. So they develop all these things
39:14
that they are not fully aware, we are not fully conscious of
39:19
that, you know, And that for me is the most magical thing.
39:22
So my work right now, my people, is to be able to try and
39:28
perceive this low progression and to say to the person, wow,
39:31
your posture is better while your weight transfer feels
39:34
nicer, you know, and let them know about this progress over
39:38
time. I think that's very, very
39:41
important in for students as well.
39:43
For those of you who are listening and you're not a
39:45
teacher, ask, ask your teacher, ask your friends about anything.
39:53
Ask them maybe the friends are going to be in the same boat and
39:58
they're going to go like, oh, I don't know, I see you all the
40:00
time, so I'm not sure. But maybe they're going to give
40:03
you some points and they'll go like, oh, you know, like I
40:06
noticed that you're really listening to the music a lot
40:09
more recently. And then suddenly you'll go
40:12
like, oh, really? I didn't notice that in myself.
40:16
Or if you don't have somebody like that, maybe ask your
40:20
teacher. Your teacher will for sure be
40:22
able to tell you. And if you want even more in
40:25
depth, maybe book a private lesson with that teacher and go
40:28
like, hey, I want to do what I call for my students, a health
40:33
checkup. I tell everybody, do a health
40:37
checkup at least once a month or once every two months and go to
40:41
your teacher and say, hey, I'm here just to do a health
40:44
checkup. How am I doing?
40:47
What am I better than last time and what should I be focusing on
40:51
next? Just so you're not lost either
40:54
because I think that's very important.
40:57
The biggest problem with the arts and dance community is that
41:01
we don't have necessarily clear guidelines of like.
41:05
When I do this, I achieve that, When I do this, I achieve that
41:09
because it's very different for every community.
41:13
An intermediate in DC or in Taipei or in Sao Paulo are
41:17
completely different dancers. That's why I do not.
41:24
Like. Personally, and I'm sorry if
41:27
that upsets anybody, but I don't like when people say, oh, I'm an
41:31
intermediate dancer. Oh yeah, In my community, I'm an
41:34
advanced dancer and I'm like, that says nothing to me.
41:39
An advanced dancer in a community that has been existing
41:43
and doing weekly classes for six months is not an advanced dancer
41:50
in a community like DC that has had Brazilian Zook for 11 years.
41:55
You know, so really focused on what you know and the things
42:00
that you're learning and the things that you want to do next
42:03
instead of the label. That's why for our schools and
42:10
everywhere that we help, we try to tell them avoid using
42:15
beginner, intermediate, advanced labels.
42:19
Like at District Zook, we created a system that is basics,
42:23
fundamentals and then the specific courses.
42:28
So that helps them to understand, oh, these are all my
42:32
basics. OK, I need to master them.
42:36
Oh, these are my fundamentals instead of like beginning to me
42:39
to advanced, right? The more structure that he can
42:43
put into your dance as a student or that you can put to your
42:48
community as a teacher leader, the better.
42:51
It's going to help them to recognize and to evolve.
42:55
And you'll also be able to better pinpoint the things that
42:59
are missing you as a student or as a teacher.
43:02
You can reach out to somebody and go like, well, my students
43:04
are struggling with this. And then we can go like, oh, OK,
43:08
so do they have this issue here or there that usually happens
43:14
because of this? You know, maybe this is too
43:17
nerdy or too methodical for anybody out there.
43:21
But for me, this is the clear way to do things.
43:24
It's kind of trial error and collect the data and then make
43:29
the data make sense as it comes together and see the patterns,
43:34
see the things that continues to happen and then create systems
43:39
and ways to remedy that. For example, for communities who
43:44
are starting, starting or upgrading.
43:46
People ask us, oh, but there's the people who've been dancing
43:49
for longer and they want more, but at the moment it can only
43:53
teach beginner classes. Cool, cool.
43:56
Maybe do a study group of three or four couples, maybe on a
44:00
Sunday when you know people are available and do that for them
44:05
as a separate thing from your normal classes.
44:07
You don't have to create an advanced level just because of
44:10
those people. Just do a little separate
44:12
special group or maybe, oh you know, all of my students are
44:17
asking to learn to the turns, but they're not ready yet.
44:21
OK, maybe do a one time boot camp on a Saturday or on a
44:27
Thursday night and go like, hey guys, I know a lot of you have
44:31
been asking and we're still not quite ready to go there.
44:34
But I'm going to do a boot camp for you guys of two hours just
44:38
to teach you what you need to work on to achieve this.
44:43
So you don't have to change your curriculum.
44:45
You don't have to speed things up and make everybody jump what
44:48
comes before. But you can give them or you can
44:52
give yourself as a student a way to at least get to know how to
44:58
get there and what to do to get there.
45:01
Often students come to us and say, hey, Allison, I want to
45:05
learn spins. I know I've only been dancing
45:08
for six months, but I also know that spins takes a long time to
45:11
get, so I want to start working on something and I'm like great,
45:16
beautiful attitude. I'm not going to say no, I'm not
45:19
going to teach you because you're not there yet, but I'm
45:22
going to teach you with that in mind and say, hey, these are the
45:25
techniques that you need to work on your connection, your
45:28
posture, your centering, your grounding.
45:31
And then I'm going to give you all of that, which hopefully is
45:34
also going to help with the rest of the dance instead of just
45:36
teaching them spin, because then they're not really learning much
45:42
more than just the spin. So I try to package in a way
45:46
that, yes, it's a little too early, but the way I'm going to
45:50
teach you is going to help you with your current dance and with
45:54
your future dance. So trying to think about these
45:59
in a different way can also help and take away the stress and
46:02
anxiety of like, I'm not doing enough as a student or I'm not
46:06
teaching enough as a teacher. Yeah, interviewed on that.
46:11
The last thing I wanted to share in this case is that you have
46:14
already a community going where you're starting something new.
46:18
And then Allison said this idea of a study group with 3-4
46:22
couples and Oh my God, I agree so much with this.
46:26
I agree so much with you, Allison, because many times it's
46:31
very easy for us to focus on who is already dancing, focus on who
46:38
is already in the scene, and sometimes trying to bring the
46:43
people who are not coming to class back to class, try to
46:47
accommodate to those who already dance.
46:50
And I started thinking that perhaps especially for those who
46:55
are beginning to teach are upgrading the scene.
47:00
If there is anything in you that wants to create a new culture
47:04
for that scene, that wants to create a new environment, bring
47:08
a new batch, is to focus on bringing new people really that
47:12
you can go from scratch in the sense in this idea, those who
47:17
already dance might come or not, and they might be hard, but
47:23
staying good with it. If they don't come, they find
47:26
the idea that the people who already in the scene might not
47:30
come and that's OK because that's not the goal.
47:33
The goal is to bring new people in and start a new way of seeing
47:36
things, start a new culture. You know, and I have seen so
47:43
many times people getting really wrapped up in what to do to
47:47
bring the people who are not dancing anymore back and putting
47:52
so much effort in it. While we can also put perhaps
47:56
more effort in bringing people who don't dance yet and start
48:01
from scratch with them. You know, and in my vision, in
48:05
my utopia, this new culture that is developed ends up attracting
48:10
those who are not dance anymore because perhaps the reason they
48:13
left is they lost motivation or they don't think they have
48:19
anything more to learn. But with the new batch of
48:23
people, with the new culture establishing, that might spark
48:26
again their desire to dance and meet these new folks and see how
48:30
the socials are going now and see what's been taught in
48:33
classes now that can be a motivating factor for those who
48:38
are not this anymore. And I don't know if that's true
48:40
because I don't think they was tried yet in this way, you know?
48:44
So I'm really excited for this to happen somewhere.
48:47
For those who are starting or upgrading a scene that you don't
48:51
have that you still don't have a structure classes, but you do
48:56
have that group of initial enthusiasts that started
48:59
Brazilian Zook in that place, but I'm not as active anymore.
49:04
I think we did kind of that a little bit in DCI, know, I
49:09
definitely did that in Melbourne.
49:11
You know, for me, at the end of the day, it's very much like I
49:15
will focus on people who want to be here.
49:18
Oh, but the students, blah and blah and blah, they want this,
49:21
they want this, they want this. I'm like, do they want to be
49:24
here or do they want to be here? Conditionally?
49:28
Those people are going to take 10 times more energy just to
49:31
keep them happy. No, I'm sorry.
49:34
No, thanks. Bye.
49:35
I'm going to focus on the people who are excited to be here, to
49:39
learn, to come every week, instead of trying to convince
49:42
those people to return. And that is how we focus on
49:46
building a big community and shifting the culture.
49:52
If we need to shift the culture, sometimes we don't need to
49:54
shift, right? So my focus and I think the
49:58
focus of most communities that are growing sustainably is
50:02
focusing on the people that want to be there.
50:06
Whether it's advanced, intermediate, beginner teachers,
50:09
professionals, it doesn't matter.
50:11
But focus on the people who want to be there and always give a
50:16
lot of attention for bringing new people in, because without
50:21
new people coming in all the time, the community just fades
50:25
away and disappears. The worst stays very small for a
50:30
long time. Yeah, with that, I think that's
50:33
a good end to our episode, once again here talking about our
50:39
experiences and hopefully sharing something that helps you
50:42
in whatever part of your journey.
50:44
So thank you for being here with us and thank you Guy, for
50:49
sharing all of his wisdom. Thank you Alison, as always a
50:53
joy to talk about these topics. And we'll see you on the next
50:58
episode, everybody. So thank you.
51:00
Thank you, bitches, bitches, Abrasus and Ciao.
51:06
Bye. Everyone.