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Transcript

Science Nonfiction Behind The Scenes Of University Research With Dr Darren J Lipomi · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: So we've created this brand new podcast. It's called Music's
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Lost History. You know the music, but do you know
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: the story? I mean, there used to be a time
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: when we would turn to AM, radio, MTV or wherever
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: else just to get the stories behind the music. So
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: what is going on with your favorite songs? Music's Lost
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: History Only on aero dot net a R r oe
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: dot net. Enjoy your exploration. Hello, and good morning everybody.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: How's everybody doing today?
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Doing good? This is Darren Mapone from University of Rochester.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I love it when you call on time there, doctor,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: you've trained your students quite well.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Hey, I like to hear that. Yeah, that's my motus
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: operande is to try to respond quickly, do things with alacrity.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: And that kind of funny because so many times people
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: will wait two and three days before they do a
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: response and they just go, well, that's the new normal,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: and it's like, you know, it doesn't have to be.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: So I'm very proud of you for being able to
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: stand up like that and say I'll give you an
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: answer right now and then we can work on a solution.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep. And the other thing that responding quickly does,
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: especially by email and phone. Is that you circumvent that
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: thing where people try to text you about business because
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: they want to jump the queue. I want to keep
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: everything localized to like, you know, my inbox or my voicemail.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Well, how did you get involved with this project? Because
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I found this to be extremely interesting because I just
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: did a story on iHeartRadio that was based on sixty
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: seven percent of today's students graduating don't believe that a
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: college education is really worth the investment. And then all
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: of a sudden I find out about you, doctor, and
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I'm going I need to know more about what's going
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: on behind those walls.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I would be shocked if any of them were
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: chemical or mechanical engineers, to be honest, because there is
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: quite a bit of vocational and kind of craftsmanship that
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: comes with a degree like that. Even though it's you
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: know done, you know under the Ivory tower, that is
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: almost impossible to replicate without the without a formal education,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: but it is. It is troubling because I'm not one
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: of those stem educators who thinks that, you know, the
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: whole purpose of college is to you know, earn earn
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: a lot of money and or or earn any you know,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: any any sustainable level of salary. I think that I
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: think that that the college experience for for certain people
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  Speaker 2: is uh is mind opening. It teaches you how to
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: be social, It teaches you how to live often away
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: from from home, and so you get a lot of
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: let's say, non pecuniary benefits. There's a there's an sat
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: word uh to going to college that that you might
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: not get in a normal job out of high school.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Well, hey, there was once a time when the School
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: of Hardox was even a good university to go to
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: because you had to go out there and learn, like
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: you said, and do it on your own. Nowadays, the
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: School of hard Knocks is Okay, go to your room
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: because you're going to live here as an adult, and
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh, they're not playing this game, right, There's
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: got to be some freedom here.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the I mean, the School of hard Knocks is
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: definitely a useful degree for a lot of people. I mean,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: I just I just got my second nerdy science tattoo,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: and I I booked the appointment. I didn't know that
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: it was going to be a guy that I knew
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: from from high school, because I just booked it based
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: on his work on Instagram and it's to you know,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: the lead time for a tattoo appointment as a big
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: it says a lot about the quality of the product
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: that you can expect. And so this guy was desirable
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: as an artist. And I shut up there, and I
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: knew him, and he went to high school with me,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: and he started to doing when he was sixteen, and
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: he had been doing this job, you know, for for
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: you know, almost thirty years, and and and and it
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: was he you know, he grew up in this in
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  Speaker 2: the system, like working at a kind of a dingy
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: downtown shop, and then he started his own business and
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  Speaker 2: he's you know, fantastically successful and has a has a
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: reputation of being a you know, being a great artist.
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  Speaker 2: So I'm not saying that you can't, you know, learn
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  Speaker 2: what you need to know to be successful from the
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: school of hard knocks, but you're probably not going to
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  Speaker 2: you know, be designing a process to make the next
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  Speaker 2: microprocessor or hydraulic fracturing system or next anti cancer therapeutic.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: You know, you you you need to go get some
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: formal training for that.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you said the thing about anti cancer because
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  Speaker 1: I know that Wake Forest University hasn't reinvested their money
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  Speaker 1: into the students to get them into their programs for
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: continued research. And I love it when a university does that.
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  Speaker 1: Is that part of this so called money that the
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  Speaker 1: US government spends and doing research to get these students
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  Speaker 1: actively involved in the very schools that train them.
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  Speaker 2: You know, the federal government spends about sixty billion dollars
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  Speaker 2: a year on university research and would I would estimate
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  Speaker 2: that around half of that goes to personnel costs, and
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: that is the stipends that pay graduate students, often undergraduates,
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  Speaker 2: but predominantly graduate students and postdoctoral fellows which are kind
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: of the next level of student after the PhD. That's
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: a whole notherother story. And so some of that, what
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  Speaker 2: that money is is workforce development money, because those those
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  Speaker 2: people who earn their PhDs and their postdoctoral certificates, they're
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: the ones who are you know, going out at going
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: out to SpaceX and Eli Lilly and companies that are
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: making the future you know what it is.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're sure making it bright and it makes me
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  Speaker 1: and I even talked with US astronauts and they really
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: are banking on this next generation to be the ones
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: that are truly going to get them up into Mars.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: And that's why I find this so inspiring, because somebody's
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: got to get these students into those classrooms. But they've
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: got to understand that failure is part of the process,
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  Speaker 1: and that you're not going to have a beautiful day
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: every day, and that don't walk out like so many
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: students are nowadays. We've made it too easy for them
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  Speaker 1: to do that.
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  Speaker 2: It's true, there's so much you know, our brains are
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  Speaker 2: being wired to just click on the next YouTube video
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: that if there's a difficult problem on a homework assignment,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: we're pretty likely to see students, you know, plug it
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: into chat ept Claude and get a think that they
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: understand it because they've read Claude's response, but they really
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: don't understand it. And it's kind of the you know,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: we're sort of ingraining this this attention deficit into ourselves,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: and you know, I feel it as well. You know,
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  Speaker 2: even at even at forty three, I'm less focused than
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I than I have been in the past. But in
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: part the fact that I have, you know, meeting after
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: meeting all day means that it's it's not just the
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: electronics that are that are contributing to my attention deficit
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: these days. It's also the nature of my job.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: So now, what are the university saying about this research?
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Because I know how radio reacts when they do their
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: different focus groups and things like that, as to okay,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: oh my god, I didn't realize we were doing that wrong.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: What can we do better? Are they reacting to the book?
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  Speaker 2: The reaction to, uh, you know, to the book has
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  Speaker 2: been has been positive. The I think that there are
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: some folks, uh, you know, among amongst science, professional scientists
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: who have reviewed it in the popular press who may
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: have said, uh, maybe thinking that I'm uh that perhaps
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: even even though it's largely a love letter to science
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  Speaker 2: and scientific research, I'm not shy about pointing out the
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  Speaker 2: pimples and the flaws, and I think that there are
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  Speaker 2: some folks out there who would prefer that I, uh
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  Speaker 2: not point these things out. You know. For for example,
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: when you work in university administration, the folks above you
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: have competing mandates, and you know, some people may incentivize
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: you too to lower standards, for example, for math competency.
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  Speaker 2: But then others may say, well, here are the resources
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  Speaker 2: so that students can and five years instead of four
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: years to get their math competency up where it needs
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  Speaker 2: to be to be a scientist or engineer. And so
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  Speaker 2: that's one of the struggles that I pointed out in
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  Speaker 2: the book, but also issues around graduate student and postdoctoral
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: equity issues. I know that's an inflammatory word these days,
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  Speaker 2: but what I really mean is they are the ones
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  Speaker 2: doing the work they but they make a median salary
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: of thirty eight thousand dollars. The places where universities tend
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: to be located tend to be expensive. Even once they
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: get done with their PhDs, they will barely break even
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  Speaker 2: in terms of lifetime earnings and retirement savings compared to
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: folks and their cohort who just got a job out
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  Speaker 2: of college and in some cases who just got a
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  Speaker 2: job out of high school.
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  Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with doctor dar You're
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: in jay Lopone coming up next Science Nonfiction behind the Scenes.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Oh we're talking some real science here with doctor Darren
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: jay Laponi. You know, one of the shocking things that
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: I really bump into a lot lately because I love
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: talking with people of science as well as engineering, but
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I do hear them a lot of them saying I
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: think I'm the last of my generation, he says, they're
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: just not interested. How is it that we're even talking
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: like this in twenty twenty six with so much exploration
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: underway right now?
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  Speaker 2: That's a super interesting question. I wonder if you could
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: put a finer point on it. You know, why are
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: we talking like this? As in as in why do
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: we even have to defend it or provide reasons? Yeah?
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Both, because you're right, Because I mean, it's like accounting
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: and things like this.
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  Speaker 2: People do.
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  Speaker 1: I wonder if it's because people that go into the education,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: it's like drafting before you can become an architect, you know,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: they do drafting one They're going, I got to get
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: out of here, but you've got the skills. I don't care.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: You're not getting my work, my heart. I got other
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: things to do. Like you said, there's YouTube to catch
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  Speaker 1: up on.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: It's true, and I think that there are some. There
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: are some, you know, I'm so I'm in My first
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: scientific first language is organic chemistry. That's the chemistry of molecules.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: It's the stuff in paint, the stuff in medicines, the
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: stuff that makes it possible to manufacture computer chips and
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: parts of batteries. And solar panels, all that stuff. Anything
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: where you're making materials and molecules. You're really talking about
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: organic chemistry, although it kind of has the reputation as
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: the course that fails a lot of people out of
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: the pre med track. And I'm thinking, is my brain
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: just weird that I want to uh do this kind
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: of well to use your word drafting, but to be
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: drafting molecules, you know, on paper, and then we make them.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: We try to predict their properties, then we try to
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: make them. I think that there are right and wronger
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: ways to connect with students, to to teach them that
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: some of these hard topics are actually interesting. I think
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: that chemistry is taught horribly and in high school and college.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: And I don't think it's I don't think it's the
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: fault of the teacher. I think that the teachers are
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: doing doing their their darness to you know, to to
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: uh to convey enthusiasm. But there's a problem with the curriculum. Uh.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: We're never taught from the top down say hey, uh,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: you know your your mom or dad or grandparents had
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: had can't answer and they were they went into remission
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: because of this drug. Well, let me show you how
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: this drug works. Let me show you a picture of
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: this drug. Let me show you all of the all
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: of the the ways in which this drug was tested,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: the uh, you know, the studies on cells, and you
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: don't have to use any jargon. You just have to explain,
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  Speaker 2: like explain it like a story. And then you talk
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: about pH and endless dars, endless titrationans that you do
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: in the lab that are super boring and turn people
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: off from that that field. And the same thing could
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: be said about about physics or biology or math. We're
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: always teaching from the bottom up with the most boring
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: possible details, and we don't teach anyone why they should care.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: They say, you know, chemistry is everywhere, or maybe the
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: title of a book is chemistry the central science. What
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: does that even mean? Like you can't just say everything
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: is related to chemistry. You've got to point out, you know,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: you got to tell stories. And that's how you get
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: students who are you know, who don't have this necessarily
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: the same kind of I don't know, neurodiverse brain, like
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: someone like me who is just for some reason interested
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: in these things sort of intrinsically. But the students who
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: have had the most success in my lab and courses,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: and who have started companies and are hiring people. You
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: know many of them. You know it was helpful to
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: have a story in an application, and then they learned
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: the discipline.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: You have to be going through the same thing that
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I do, because I'm an instructor of broadcasting and you
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: are a doctor. You are a professor in the way
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: that I mean, I have to design every single class
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: around the individualisms that are there in the way that
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: I have to understand where they might be coming from
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: that day, and I've got to motivate them on an
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: individual basis. Well, then the people that come in that
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: are higher above me don't understand that level of teaching.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Teach the entire group, be on their team, speak their language,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: and you know it's going to fail. I don't know
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: how you're able to go through every one of those
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: storms during these days where everybody wants attention right now.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: We have an advantage I think in the science and
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: engineering fields, especially at research intensive universities where we so
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: my job is really two jobs. If you forget about
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: the department chair and the administrative stuff, my job is
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: really two jobs. By teach in the classroom. Because this
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: is a private university, it's generally pretty small classes. I
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: used to be at UC San Diego for twelve years.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: The classes who are much larger there, But the same
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: kind of thing. You interact with students. You know, you've
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: got to pick some median level of presentation. But then
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: maybe students will come to office hours. You have special
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: sessions for students. You can create project groups and try
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: to provide some individualized attention to where you can where
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: you can mold your teaching approach to match the student.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: The other half of the job is mentoring students in
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: the lab. And so you know, each one of us
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: has a you know, a thousand square feet or so
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: of space with you know, an academic lab. It's probably
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: dirty and old, but it's it's cool, right, it's uh,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: got wrenches and glassware and chemicals and and and uh
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: and cool stuff and microscopes and cool stuff and uh.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: And in that case, you have maybe five PhD students
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: and then maybe five more undergraduates who are in the lab,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: and you meet with them individually, and you you spend
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: the first you know, a few minutes of every individual
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: meeting asking them just how they're doing what's exciting them
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: in the lab, what is what is frustrating them in
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: the lab, and then you sort of treat those those
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: meeting the way that a that a music teaches, like
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: a private lesson teacher for the guitar, piano, or trumpet
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: might might teach you. You listen to them play, and
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: by that I mean you listen to them talk about
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: their science. You look at the figures that they've prepared
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: to show you based on their data, and then you
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: use your experience combined with how how that student has
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: has been has been more or less responsive to certain
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: ideas that you've thrown out there, and then you drill
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: down deeper on those, try to find the sharpest arrows
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: in your student's quiver and then encourage them to use
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: those over and over again and to develop others. You know,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: they don't have to be the best in everything, but
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: you want them to be able to have success using
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: the things that they're good at and like.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Don't you think though, that we need to as a
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: community to come together even more because we reminds me
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: so much of the Native American medicine men who would
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: walk the different streets and they would look for the
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: future of who was going to be doing the medicine.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: And I've always thought that I see the scientists right
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: here in front of me, What are we doing for
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: them during their younger ages to encourage them to get
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: into science so that by the time they get to you,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: they're motivated, they're ready to rock. They know what the
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: plan was, because it's been with them since that one
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: guy ages ago took the time to share with him
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: a rock that you broke, and here was all this
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: beautiful stuff inside.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: I think YouTube is fantastic that it is, yes, and
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: it's so easy to just you know, I'm trying to
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: curate what my seven year old daughter is watching on
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: YouTube because a lot of times it's just you know,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: people playing video games and just talking about whatever. But
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: when I can direct her to a show that involves
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: creation or discovery, and I'll even, you know, tell her
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: that this this show is this is this is poor quality,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: it's not nutritious. You're you're not going to get much
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: out of that. And so, you know, on a successful day,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: we will go for a walk and we'll talk about
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: you know, plants and insects, and she'll you know, dig
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: worms out of the ground to the chagrin of my wife,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: who hates worms. But but you know, we'll, we'll. What
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I try to do is encourage curiosity. I think that's
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: that's true even with you know, my my adult students,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: and when sometimes I have graduate students in the lab
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: who are who are older than me, which has happened,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: you know, happened quite a lot. A lot of times
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: they come in with a with a military background or
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: they've worked I had one student who was who who
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: worked as a sound technician for sort of B list
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: uh uh punk and metal acts, and so he had
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: a set of skill around you know, electrical equipment and
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: trying to nurture you know, what can you do with
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: that with that set of skills but on kind of
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: the smaller scale where you know, you don't need a wrench,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: you need optical tweezers, right, you got to do this
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: on the micron scale?
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Now, wow, where can people go to find out more
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: about you? Because we're just barely scratching the surface here,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: and I want them to really dig into what you're
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: doing and why you are doing it. And it's one
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: of those personal relationships they're going to get when they
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: go to the website which they're craving. They just need
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: some content that's going to really inspire them.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So the best place, you know, I know, I'm
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: I'm huking my book here, but the best place to
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: learn about this is from my YouTube channel, which is
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: just my name, Yeah, Darren Laponi. You can also find
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: it on the on any podcast platform, molecular podcasting. My
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: book website is Science Nonfiction book dot com. It's available
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and if you subscribe
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: to Spotify, it's available there for free to all subscribers.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: And I did the reading myself, which was a you know,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: that's another whole story.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: So where you like me during that moment when you
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: go into it, because you feel really good when you're
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: going into the studio. Man, you get your earphones on,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: the people are talking to you in the years, and
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: all of a suddenly you realize you're only on page
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: twelve of one hundred and fifty page book. It's like,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: oh my god, Oh my god.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: And I don't know about you, but it was difficult
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: to talk the rest of the day because the muscles
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: when you try to enunciate that clearly, you get really fatigued.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh my god. You got to come back to
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: this show anytime in the future. The door is always
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: going to be open for you. Doctor.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, I appreciate that. Thank you so much for having me.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today? You make it so exciting, dude,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you.