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CA Interviews | Louise Weard, Director of CASTRATION MOVIE! · Critically Acclaimed Network

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening, and welcome to another Sintelating episode of Critically Claimed.
• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: This one's a little different.
• 0:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are interviewing a wonderful filmmaker on the latest episode.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be speaking to Louise Ward, the writer, director, star, and probably everything else behind castration movie, a series of anthology films, which I, William Bibi-Anne, everybody calls me Bims.
• 0:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Consider some of the great artistic achievements of
• 0:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: the decade so far so it's a real thrill to have her on.
• 0:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Before we begin, I have an apology to make, have a apology to make to my co-host to Louise Ward, to you the listener when we recorded this episode, I made a big deal out of making sure that we had quality audio.
• 0:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I asked for Whitney Sybeld, my co-host, asked for Louise Ward to
• 1:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: in order to make sure that there was no way the sound could possibly get screwed up, and they both did great.
• 1:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, on the other hand, screwed it up royal, so I did the best I could, but my audio on this particular episode of critically acclaimed is not great.
• 1:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's not great.
• 1:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I apologize that it is not great.
• 1:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it was just too interesting in interview and Louise Ward is just too exciting a filmmaker For me not to release the episode to the best of my abilities with a little luck Maybe we can have her on the show again But until that happens, I am still proud to release this episode.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: We hope you enjoy it It will begin shortly.
• 1:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks again to Louise Ward my apologies again for the audio Whitney side.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, does of course a god amongst men and let us
• 2:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, everybody, and welcome back to critically acclaimed movie review podcast where sometimes we don't review movies, sometimes we interview very cool film bankers.
• 2:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: My name is William to be on here.
• 2:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am a film critic.
• 2:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I write for the wrap and everybody calls me babes.
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: My name is Whitney Sybold.
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a senior staff writer over at slash film.
• 2:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have a cute nickname.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't need one.
• 2:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: everyone calls and rockin' my stream of cool actually and we are extremely thrilled to have very special episode.
• 2:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't review a lot of filmmakers as many as we used to but we make sure when we do they are extremely cool and we have a filmmaker who I think is doing some of the most exciting work.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: just in general right now and I cannot wait to ask her various questions.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: So this is Louise Ward, the filmmaker behind the castration movie anthology, which I am deeply in love with, movie wise and I finally got Whitney to watch in their entirety very recently and he
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: hey I'm so happy to be here you know I'm well rested I thankfully don't have to sit and watch the movies and their entirety anymore when I screen them on tour so Whitney I'm hoping you've got the energy nice and high having just gone through the crucible as it were
• 3:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: I watched about a third of castration movie anthology one and the whole of volume two just today.
• 3:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm still writing high on these things and good golly, these are an astonishing experience.
• 3:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just happy A that William finally got me to sit down and watch these because they were on my radar.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't get to see these when they were sort of
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: coming out in the United States at the end of last year, and I finally caught up on I'm so glad I did because Gauly, these are, these are astonishing and I'm intimidated to be talking to you about these movies.
• 4:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to make it clear to all of the people at home what we are talking about because the castration movies are I think every year, every few months I think they are increasing their awareness, the word of mouths just keeps growing but I actually they can be a little hard to define so I would like Louise if you wouldn't mind what is a castration movie.
• 4:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's really interesting because it's a very nebulous thing at this point to define it definitely started as this idea I had for what I thought was going to be an 80 minute film as my directorial debut, but you know, I'm a very literary minded filmmaker, I think or.
• 5:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: you know, I like to fancy myself as such.
• 5:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: So once we started on the actual process of shooting the film, it actually came about because my friend William Morris, who works for the music box, I showed him the dailys of our first two months of shooting and everyone can blame him because when I showed him the footage, he said, I can't cut a second of this.
• 5:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, and I protested at first, you know, everyone likes to think I wanted these to be long.
• 5:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think there's anything scarier as a filmmaker than making saying that would be considered unprogrammable.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I basically got word from my friend that he would make sure that they screen somewhere if we committed to it.
• 5:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: So,
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: the started what we now know of as castration movie which is one extremely long film project that we've been releasing as about one part of a year for the last I guess a couple years now three years now and the basic narrative of its starts
• 6:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: with a collection of people in Vancouver, Canada, who are struggling with modern existence, mostly around questions to do with ideas of living up to what they think, the expectations of gender have been thrust upon them socially.
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then this spirals out into a global narrative that we have shot on multiple continents at this point.
• 6:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it has become this kind of all-encompassing work that I like to think is, I guess, like, a cinematic, I guess, culmination of everything I think a new cinema has to be, both on a formal quality, but also taking everything from, I guess, like, especially the last,
• 7:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: 20 years of digital and internet filmmaking and the things you can do with digital platforms and release strategies and and audience building.
• 7:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And coalescing that into what I think is like the the modern movie the that's why it's castration movie.
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's it's a nebulous answer to a difficult question I guess, but castration movie is kind of everything all that once in a lot of ways.
• 7:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: you could have just described the plot and you've got to go away with it.
• 7:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: But instead, we've got a treatise, which I love.
• 7:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: If anyone hasn't seen these yet, first off you must, and we'll have a link to where you can buy them online on the description of the episode.
• 7:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the first concentration movie anthologies is about four hours or five hours long the first one.
• 7:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: the first one's four and a half hours, the second one's five hours, the second and a half one is two hours and ten minutes and then the upcoming one is around six hours.
• 8:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 8:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think that's a big part of this, I mean, but I'll find the time and I
• 8:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I get really frustrated watching a lot of modern films and modern TV shows because the digital platforms have gotten rid of this mandate that films need to be a certain length.
• 8:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're hang out and there's no, there's no a theater to program and you're not concerned with how many times this needs to fit in a day or you know, fit in with like a programmable time slot.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: you're finally just taking advantage of the digital medium.
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like not enough filmmakers are doing that.
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Was there a point when you're making this movie when you realized you could just tape it over and it didn't matter anymore?
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: 100%.
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was thinking very primarily at first about the way that, I guess it's like the late 2000s when
• 9:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was being supposed to the first sort of like web series for like they I don't think that we would have thought of them as web series at the time But they're like a long-gated content released online whether these were like film critic review shows or kind of like photocumenaries like like lonely girl 15s when I always think about from that early era
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Or I've referenced like the channel awesome filmmakers, which was like a lot of people doing like review characters online in the late 2000s or early 2010s where it was like People who are like finding ways to do long-form storytelling online where they have like arcs and stuff happening and what was fun about that is You can kind of fit your schedule however you want to.
• 9:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can start a 20 minute video and only watch five minutes of it and come back and watch the other 15 or do the inverse or watch the whole thing or take months break between episodes and come back however you want to the internet allows that in such a beautiful way.
• 10:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: So looking at what I was watching at the moment that like,
• 10:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was releasing this.
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it was really funny thinking about like the Jenny Nicholson Star Wars hotel video, which is like a five hour video essay.
• 10:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: That made my plans of the year list.
• 10:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I also on mine, it's compelling and it's five hours and I watched it.
• 10:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I could have sat and watched it in the full sitting, but
• 10:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: At the time me and my roommates we split up over having dinner on like four or five different nights Maybe like like a full week.
• 10:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: It took us to watch this whole thing and That sort of unlocked for me in a lot of ways like okay You can do that if I if I just release this straight online where I'm not thinking about film festivals We completely bypassed traditional Distribution we just went straight to the internet put it up online pay what you want
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that kind of was also telling the audience engaged with it how you want.
• 10:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was also on like internet archive right away.
• 11:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like you could just find this movie put it on a watch it at your own leisure.
• 11:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so that was one side.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then I was also thinking about the way that Netflix with its dropping of full season at once sort of like model.
• 11:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: especially early on it was it was really compelling because it's like, okay, I want to watch the full story of the season in one sitting, right?
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: But the thing that is so bad about the way Netflix TV shows operate is that a single episode often doesn't have enough material to justify its own existence.
• 11:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's filmmakers who want to be making feature films or then stretching it out to eight hours.
• 11:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the way they trick you into watching more is the last five minutes of any episode of an Netflix series is the hook to drive you into the next like, accurate of the, like the start of the accurate of the next episode.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and so I wanted to rebel against that and go I'm going to do long from storytelling but we're not going to play in this world of cliff hangers and and like more episodic like it's definitely not TV.
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not a web series.
• 12:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not it's not fulfilling the structure that those things require to keep you watching.
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: I do think of it as like.
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: irrational cinema and something much more akin to to a filmmaker like Jacques Revets longer work or lefties where it's like no, we're going to sit and watch a movie and it's not but I'm with the say it's not he's learned a lot of our listeners on to love the yes, okay, I'm I'm a love the stands.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah,
• 12:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, I mean, like, in high school, one of my, my good buddies, this guy wrote a little one, turned me on to, uh, uh, death in the land of in cantoes, and it's like, oh, I can sit and watch people talking on a patio for one hour.
• 12:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to be compelled by it, you know?
• 12:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so that, that always, like, that's also revet, like an out one, all you say.
• 12:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's
• 12:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: theater performances that we get to see the process of throughout the first half of that film.
• 13:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like there's all these other filmmakers who feel like they're giving me permission to play with duration, play with this idea of realism, play with with form in a way that I felt
• 13:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: we were kind of missing in North American cinema like I guess Andy Warhol would be like the other big big like Maverick for me in terms of like longer cinema within like an North American capacity or maybe like some Michael Snow stuff but even then those are much more experimental they're not
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: specifically narratively driven.
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I was looking at it from a can we do long-form narrative storytelling, it within like American or North American film, and yeah so all these things were definitely on my mind going into it and you know now we're at like
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: I guess 16 hours in my timeline right now of this movie.
• 13:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like an audience's attention span is more nebulous than people give a credit for, like I grew up watching with my mother we would watch as the world turns, which had been going for thousands upon thousands of episodes since like the 1950s.
• 14:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it had that structure you're talking about, they would have like every week, they would just do like five storylines and there'd be a lot of talk, a lot of talk, a lot of talk, play finger at the answer,
• 14:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then I remember in the 1990s, they got a new showrunner who was like, hey, what if we didn't do that?
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then something interesting happened every episode and all of a sudden became like the awesomest long form storytelling.
• 14:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like, you know, prime time told everyone to do their half hour or an hour, movies told everyone, you want to get around two hours.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then the internet comes out and people suddenly are like, well, I'm fine with watching something that's only a minute long.
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm also fine with watching like a
• 14:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's like, you can, it's not like everyone's only has one attention span.
• 14:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, think of all the people out there who are like, I don't want to sit and watch a whole movie, but I'll watch four episodes of The Good Wife.
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, and it's so interesting because I feel like especially the way algorithms work on all of these social media platforms is they're trying so hard constantly to push that short form reals type content on you.
• 15:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: But for me as a viewer, I'm so repulsed by that.
• 15:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like soul dying the second something comes on where it's like an abridged version of a TV episode cut down a little bit quickly with an AI voice.
• 15:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: But whereas like, you know,
• 15:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, and it's just crazy to me because they're like that's such a slot content.
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like stuff that people are putting time into, like, like, like, that's why I have such a, uh, you know, I, you know, invited, uh, some of the best, like, video essayist type, like, people to be involved in these pictures, too, like, like, Abigail Thorn from PhilosophyTube is in the next one.
• 15:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I definitely have a high reverence.
• 15:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: for that idea of the long form like video essay like you know in film school I loved like Chris marker you know so it feels like uh seeing people who can like do that on a on a regular schedule online and I can be like damn hell yeah let's let's like even if it's a topic I don't care at all about if it's presented with like some degree of like like love and passion and it's like there's a good form to it I will lock in for five
• 16:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: feeding on someone else's passion.
• 16:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what excites you.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like you're really connecting this somebody.
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's something you really love about the castration movies because each chapter is very, very different in a lot of ways, but also each chapter feels like it's like speaking to something very contemporary, something that feelings and situations and pipelines to different modes of
• 16:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: that are so immediate, that are so absolutely now, that I'm more willing to sit and watch it for as long as it takes because I feel like I'm like, and even good movies that I like a lot, I don't feel like they're speaking to what's happening now.
• 17:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like they're very rooted in the past and what we want the past to be and what we thought filmmaking should be.
• 17:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean,
• 17:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: The first half of it is basically the origin story of an insult in a lot of ways, then the next chapter is we've got, you know, people transitioning and going through the ins and outs of sex work and then next chapter, a cult in Bushwick, you know, but it also, it also feels just like very much like, yeah, but I get it.
• 17:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And now the new one, which is called the part that you've already released, is called Custration Movie Chapter 3, Jr. Ghost's pre-morphic drift, a fragmentary passage.
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: So even your titles are long.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, like, I think it's inspired by like the stuff that I'm trying to touch on with my audience, which is like JRPGs anime, you know online contents like like like web comics like like home stuck or something like that like it's like
• 18:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm definitely more in conversation with like I guess like I'm such a cinephile but I want to be in conversation with like I guess what you can consider like maybe like dorkier sort of passions online like like this sort of stuff that it's like
• 18:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: you build these very insular communities around because it's like, oh, only the right people are going to get this.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think it adds on to the fact that like, you know, it's a, like, each of these are like five-hour parts to an ongoing thing called castration movie.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's the most self-selective audience possible.
• 18:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: So in a lot of ways, like the titleing and like trying to keep it so obviously skate in terms of like, by the end of this, you're going to need like a wiki in order to know what order
• 18:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: the movies in and like it's kind of inviting that level of engagement in a way that I think is like me sort of like having a handshake agreement with the audience like hey I am rewarding you for your engagement in this thing where this is not just like a passive you know flash in the pan movie that's touching on internet and all of this stuff um
• 19:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: And in a way that like is maybe like Hallower instance here doesn't understand what's like to have that relationship with it as like media and conversation with like digital worlds, digital identity, digital culture.
• 19:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like that trans media approach is such a big part of the project as a whole, where it's like it's also inviting this online audience to engage it with it in a way that you can only really engage as an online audience.
• 19:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I'm not a king of hearts early.
• 20:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: I haven't played it.
• 20:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I do remember watching a lot of boys play it growing up as a kid or whatever on the GameCube or whatever, but or PlayStation.
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I was gonna say, if a Josie Clements who does our music and plays Adeline in the films, we were sitting doing the editing and we were trying to side how to express that this
• 20:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: points to point like a point 2.5 or part 2.5 or whatever like it kind of fits in these chapters and it's kind of in this like nebulous like sideways zone so if a started joking about Kingdom Hearts titling will be like 385 over to part dash one fragmentary passage or whatever and we were just like
• 20:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god, she was like, oh my god, I call it this.
• 20:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so I didn't even really know in that moment when we were writing the title down, that it was a Kingdom Hearts reference until she explained what we were doing to me.
• 21:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then at that moment, I was like, hell yeah, let's commit to this.
• 21:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is so funny.
• 21:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like the people who get it are gonna really appreciate it.
• 21:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, that was definitely intentional.
• 21:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Kingdom Hearts video game was Kingdom Hearts 0.2 birthed by sleep, a fragmentary passage.
• 21:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I knew that.
• 21:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a knee as well.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Winnie, you were about to question.
• 21:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I interrupted you, but yeah.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 21:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, now it's been interrupted by this fun Kingdom Hearts conversation.
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Louise was talking about how engaging with this complex overarching epic piece of art.
• 21:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was going to ask how you prefer people engage with it.
• 21:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you want them to watch it in chunks or would you prefer they sort of in a reverent way just sort of sit and watch it all in one sitting in a theater or is this just, you know, choose your own adventure sort of work.
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, I think that as an artist, my intent was to make one really long feature film.
• 22:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: And not even like very long.
• 22:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was intending to tell one story, regardless of how long that ended up being, it's probably the best way to phrase that.
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: So for me, I was looking at it as one movie, and at first I wanted to get the whole movie done and then put it out and feel it could watch however they want it.
• 22:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because of the qualities of independent film,
• 22:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: We already put like three years into shooting and we had no money and I had no idea how we're going to keep working on this thing and so we put it out online with that first part where we kind of looked at we found a good spot where the chapter break was and said well let's put these first two chapters out and see if it lands and thankfully people found it and I would have still kept going
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's finding an audience definitely helped it move faster and helped us get the next round of, you know, financing together to go shoot the next two movies.
• 23:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I think now where I'm at with it is
• 23:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: like with a webcomic creator or, you know, releasing a video game, it's like, I'm going to get the whole thing done.
• 23:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: It will all exist as that piece of art and people can engage with it however they want to.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: And as an artist, I'm really excited to see if people come up with like castration movies don't like machete order where it's like, uh,
• 23:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: like, like, oh, actually you should watch like 1, 3, 2, 5, 4, like, you know, it's like, I want to, you know, I want the audience to have it at that point and it, it's up to them to decide how they want to engage with it.
• 23:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, to me, it's, it's already.
• 23:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: been so crazy that people will come out to a cinema to watch these.
• 23:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like I thought this was going to be basically only an online thing.
• 23:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then when we got the first, you know, asked by Matchbox Cinema who are the organization who are releasing it in a year with me, they had a festival in Glasgow.
• 24:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they were the first ones who recently said, hey, we really want to screen this
• 24:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: and so the movie had just been online for a few months and all of a sudden it was like wait people want to come see this in like a room like they want to sit in a room for four hours so the first few screenings were really quite you know not not sit in the spaces it was DIY venues people were sitting in hard chairs we would try to throw down like like at that glass goes free with three on like bean bag chairs for people to like rest on and stretch out so it's always been this sort of like
• 24:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: I guess really community focused approach regardless like and I never even thought they would screen in the cinema so who knows how else you know I'm I'm always down for however people want to watch and discover these movies now you're you're a very intentional filmmaker I mean you have all this philosophical ideas and all these influences you have chosen to film these movies in a very particular way they're shot on a high
• 25:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: only one take per scene and you said you often hand the camcorder to people who don't have lot of experience shooting.
• 25:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: That seems like you're giving up a lot of control and is that important to you and does it ever give you hives.
• 25:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: you know, it's really funny how that works because I mean I think watching the films you can tell when I'm pulling the camera.
• 25:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: But when even in those moments I am trying to kind of forget everything I know about how a movie is supposed to look and I think to me it was like,
• 25:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: In the same way that like Dogma 95 was like Vauntree are going, you know, I've used form as a crutch and I haven't been communicating with my actors and my performances and my films of suffered.
• 26:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to create this manifesto of rules that are going to force me to kind of fix the things that I've like let down as a director.
• 26:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think that to me, there wasn't so much a rule set to it, but it was a similar impulse of just going, you know, I never felt like I had honed my skills enough as like an actor's director.
• 26:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so starting this project, it was like, oh, hey, like let's not.
• 26:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: weight for any of the things that can slow movie down.
• 26:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: All these things that other filmmakers want to use as an excuse for what they need money for the biggest grip and lighting package and the best camera and all this stuff.
• 26:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was like, you know, I was at my mom's house.
• 26:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was at my start of this project that I had just gone through a break up.
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I didn't have my apartment anymore.
• 26:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was living out of my car.
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was between jobs because of being a film industry worker post-fovid.
• 26:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: The only camera I had access to in that moment was the one in my mom's garage, that was our family's like camcorder from when I was a kid.
• 27:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I popped that out and I was, you know, really awestruck by these old home videos I'd been shooting as like a kid and the freeness of form and the fact that there was something very artistically compelling just about
• 27:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like that that unintentional, uh, I guess authorship that you get out of even like a home video, like it's, you know, it goes back to like, why I was in film school.
• 27:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have these conversations with other students about like what what belongs in a film canon and I would tell them like, well, you know, if I'm at a thrift store and I find a family's recording of sing on a VHS tape, like I could never throw that out or get rid of it because there was intention behind the photography of this.
• 27:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: So,
• 27:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted basically take that philosophy into the shooting and just go, okay guys, we're going to find those occasional brief glimpses of beauty despite a lack of intention with the shooting.
• 28:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: So let's just take it free form.
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: you know, don't worry about the the rules of what you need to do with a camera.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're not going to light anything.
• 28:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: At most we might have a sound recorder with us, but you know, like let's just keep it loose and let the scene play out as if it was reality and someone just happened to have a camera there.
• 28:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that was like basically how we approach shooting it and it It's sped everything up so much where it's like, you know, we could have a, you know, be shooting these like, like, Kesery's when we part two, we shot within a week and that's a five hour movie, you know, like it.
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't know this long test.
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: It frees us up.
• 28:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Editing fast too, right?
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we had that from from my first shot to premier was like a month and a half on cast ratio.
• 29:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let me ask a question because you do all these long long takes and I mean, you get signing performances out of them.
• 29:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you do a lot of rehearsal beforehand or do you just trust everyone to go?
• 29:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, it depends on who's involved in the scene.
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Everyone as an actor has a different process and the scenes will be very context dependent on if it's something that we need to prepare or not.
• 29:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so I mean, it's definitely a case by case basis.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like there's some scenes that are like very structured.
• 29:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's some that the dialogue is fully written from beginning to end.
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I am counting on the actors to like,
• 29:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: state to script to a certain extent, like, you know, may not word by word because I don't really, that's not, I'm more about the tri-ficing authentic than trying to capture like words on a page that I wrote down.
• 29:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's like, you know, there's certain times where it's like, okay, this is like some world building stuff where we have to make sure that this is gonna set up another thing we're doing later on or whatever, so we have to hit these lines.
• 30:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: But,
• 30:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Beyond that, I think it is just like this sort of balance of trust between me and who I'm collaborating with.
• 30:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we do whatever makes sense for the process for that particular scene.
• 30:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so much of it is, you see, you're not sticking to the script.
• 30:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's all clearly like improvised.
• 30:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm wondering how.
• 30:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: to use Williams, we're just sort of how nerve-wracking that is as a director.
• 30:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: And also, you've said it's about the trust between you and the performers.
• 30:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: How much, what's your relationship like with the performers?
• 30:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: How much of this is based on their own character and their own experience versus what you sort of just direct that day?
• 30:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's interesting, I think I'm always very intentional with the casting in terms of like wanting a specific like look or personality or someone with a certain reputation to play a certain character where like I'll have people playing two type or against type in ways that are always very intentional to me with the so that's all sort of begins in the casting process that we can collaborate and I think that a lot of my favorites.
• 31:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: comedy scenes and in the movies can come out of like me and an actor ahead of time riffing about their character and I'll say, okay, well, I have this idea for this really bad date scene and then, you know, the actress can tell me, well, okay, well, what if my character has a dead brother and then we can go, okay, well, that's really good.
• 31:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: So then I have that.
• 31:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, it's like probably one of my favorites in the movie and it's like so Noah is talking with with Kaylee the actress and there They're going back and forth on this dead brother thing and then we were like, okay, this is actually gonna be really funny So I mean Kaylee going the back room and we start just yes, and then each other details of the brother We're like, you know, oh, so how how do you die?
• 31:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it car accident.
• 32:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, no, I think suicide Okay, well, let's combine those two things into one things.
• 32:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: We killed himself after car accident this and that so we start
• 32:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: you know doing all this stuff where we can be super prepared for the scene we can build stuff as a group and then when I you know kind of let them loosen to that scene it's like me and the actress prepared all the details about the dead brother and then me and uh Noah who plays the install guy it's like well well I want you to keep asking these questions and then you're going to go into this uh talking about your bad screen play where we had fully fleshed out what that character's bad screen play was the bow and
• 32:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so it's like we had all those, we had all that ammunition in the chamber and then you know I can let them go and like at that point it's just trusting the process where it's like you know we've locked in we've rounded out these characters into what feels like real people but they have enough in the tank to like like hit all these jokes and answer any question that comes up so can feel natural and then you know it kind of
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not like improv in the sense of like, yes, and like like you're having to come up with something in the moment.
• 33:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's more like.
• 33:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: We build these characters so complexly and deeply that once we get loose into the scene, everyone knows their motivations, what they're trying to do and what I'm more so creating is an environment where I can get natural reactions.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: between people where everyone kind of knows what they're what they have to do, but they don't always know what the other person is going to say to them.
• 33:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I can kind of get that surprise that shock that thinking in the moment where it's less like improv.
• 33:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I have to keep the scene going and more okay.
• 33:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, what did Louise set up with me that I can now use within
• 33:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: So a lot of times, I'll tell one actor, one thing, one actor, another thing.
• 33:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Within that contradiction, I can then get a really good interplay of their conversation.
• 33:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's always, I think, you know, I like to think of myself as like a like the
• 34:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: a puppet master in a way where it's like, I'm, you know, I've got everyone on the strings in terms of like the everyone knows what their motivations are within a certain moment.
• 34:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then they, you know, they have some control as well in terms of that like trust that I've given them where they know they can take it in a direction that might be different from what we planned if they feel it's the right call.
• 34:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like the example I always give,
• 34:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: for that side of it is like the cat girl character in the cults in part two.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was something that we had an early conversation.
• 34:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Me and the actress Eve about her character wanting to have this like oh I'm literally a cat like this sort of like delusional thinking thing in terms of how she's behaving in the cult.
• 34:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: And when we started rolling on it, the first scene of that first day of production, I was like, I'm in trouble.
• 34:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: This was a mistake.
• 35:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, this is so cringe.
• 35:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I find this so hard to watch.
• 35:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, in the moment, I was like, I need to roll this back because what I was thinking,
• 35:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I trusted Eve because she was so kind of concrete and like what her vision of that character was that I just rolled with it.
• 35:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I suppressed that sort of cringe feeling I was having.
• 35:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then that night when I watched the playback of it, I was like pissing myself laughing at all for lines going like, oh my god, thank god I trusted the process.
• 35:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: this is so the funniest stuff to me now, like now that I'm not in the moment, cringing out, this is like so good.
• 35:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that that balance to me has always been the thing that has guided the directing on castration movie is just like knowing that there's no idea to stupid, but then also knowing that we had to have a reason for why we do any stupid idea.
• 35:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Winnie bread up the cast, and that actually, this is something I think is really interesting.
• 36:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, you've got a lot of filmmakers starring in this movie, uh, you've got, you know, if you're a Drew and have a lot of fast and Alice Moon McKay, and I'm always terrified.
• 36:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to butcher their name, uh, Jane Shunbrin, is that I've been answered?
• 36:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but you've got this whole crew of brilliant filmmakers, they're making
• 36:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think Christ needed desperately needed.
• 36:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm just curious, like, is that like, do you feel like you, you're all like part of a wave right now?
• 36:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you feel like you're all like sort of amplifying and informing each other's work?
• 36:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's it's a very interesting consideration.
• 36:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like to push back against the idea of like a trans film wave personally because the two reasons I think that the idea of a trans cinema is very, very nebulous like, you know, I think like do we what what will we call a women's cinema or something like
• 37:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, you know, like there's definitely like a feminist cinema.
• 37:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: So like the idea of like a trans cinema, like do we need to have like a political connotation of the form?
• 37:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like as someone made like the riddles of the riddle of a spank surge, John Deelman, yet of trans cinema, I don't know.
• 37:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that can only be really thought of in hindsight, or or at least it would have to be a filmmaker coming into it with that like sort of political motivation in terms of how they're trying to deconstruct form.
• 37:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't think that was specifically what I was thinking about doing castration movie, and I'm not sure I can't speak for any of the other filmmakers who you brought up.
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I always push back a little bit against that trends in my idea, because I just don't know what unites all of those films in terms of like what they represent.
• 38:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just to early to tell.
• 38:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I also think,
• 38:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to repeat the mistakes of a lot of other film movements or like new waves or anything.
• 38:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're right now, it's a very homogeneous group of filmmakers where we're all in that group at least.
• 38:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like white North American, you know, it's like I think that there's something that
• 38:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: bigger going on.
• 38:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've see so many amazing short form filmmakers that never get included in this conversation like like Steppy Mashahoff who's also in the movie or or filmmakers who aren't in my like castration movie sphere like like Naila Moon or Starmarisu like like there's definitely other filmmakers who are trans making amazing work right now that I really love but there's nothing really
• 38:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: be on the trans thing.
• 38:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I also engage with a lot of filmmakers who are doing interesting underground DIY transgressive art that aren't, you know, out as transgender, whatever.
• 39:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: And
• 39:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that for me, the makeup of having a bunch of other filmmakers in these movies is more so in terms of establishing a digital new wave looks like or young filmmakers who are doing stuff that
• 39:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: deals, I guess, new and inspired by the underground film movements of the past to some extent.
• 39:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I originally cut my teeth within like the early 2010, the underground forest scene, and there was definitely
• 39:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: being a level by which I take a lot of inspiration from like those like kind of underground transgressive filmmakers of that era, who would be kind of like I guess the digital equivalence of like an ex-dad Richard Curtain type of filmmaker and at that time,
• 40:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I felt that whole scene really imploded because of the first Trump election.
• 40:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because as someone who is queer and in that scene, all of a sudden I felt a lot of division where I was like, I actually can't align with a lot of these people in the audience or other filmmakers or festival programmers and that scene who are now like the most banger Trump guys.
• 40:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, this actually isn't a really safe
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: uh uh audience for me because this is like not the work I'm making and it was really interesting because especially at that time as my work was getting more queer um the stuff I was making with my filmmaking partner Dion Copeland at the time all of a sudden people were like what's going on you guys and the early stuff was great now you're so washed and it was like oh hey so people are disliking the work more the queer we go with that even though we're still doing that same like weird gory horror stuff that we were used to right
• 41:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I when castration movie started I think there was like this one part of me that really wanted to reclaim underground cinema for like a new generation where I was like I'm going to do the same thing that a lot of new waves do which is try to break rope in all of these other artists.
• 41:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: who I feel are doing really important, really great work.
• 41:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's not just filmmakers, it's also other art forms.
• 41:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, I have comic artists, like Remy Boydell and Kate Warts in there, who've worked on the movies.
• 41:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have all these talented musicians who also play roles in these films, like Ada Rook, Jamila Centoto,
• 41:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: What I'm trying to do, I guess, is try to redefine like an underground scene and look at it as a bigger thing than just a trans thing.
• 42:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because I don't think one of the big things to a castration movie is I don't want it to be a trans cinema.
• 42:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to be a new cinema that isn't specifically defined by its transness.
• 42:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sure, trans people historically have not
• 42:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: had a lot of representation in the industry.
• 42:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: So there is a newness to that.
• 42:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I think that it's more to say, look at how cool and exciting, new underground transgressive, independent cinema can be when we open it up to like more diversity of voice.
• 42:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that extends to all these different art forms that it then intersects with where it really speaks to like,
• 42:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I brought up Andy Warhol.
• 42:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: I brought up those no wave filmmakers.
• 42:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like these are all scenes that had that great intersectionality of all these different mediums and and felt cool and inclusive.
• 42:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, before
• 42:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: This project's over I would like it to like represent some really cool diverse like new, new artistic movements, but it's definitely not something I'm intentionally labeling as like a trans exclusive thing as a matter of fact, I think that like the movie, especially can really be for everyone, even though it definitely has a trans audience in in mind as it's like kind of primary audience.
• 43:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you send the text earlier today, where you described these movies, do you have that up right now, do you want to read that because I feel like I want to.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh God.
• 43:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm watching the first castration movie.
• 43:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: And this is actually something I was just going to ask organically.
• 43:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: But there's sort of, you're clearly engaging with a lot of, just sort of the the notice of the way we communicate.
• 43:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of,
• 43:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: kind of the difference between living online versus, you know, lived experienced out in the world.
• 44:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I compared it in a text to William to have all things Finnegan's wake.
• 44:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's sort of, if you're familiar with Finnegan's wake, it's last sentence cycles back into its first.
• 44:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of meant to be this, like, cyclical work.
• 44:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like,
• 44:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm watching castration movie and getting that same kind of cyclical feeling where the movie begins with the sort of insell, the insell superman segment.
• 44:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's about this kind of
• 44:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: being swallowed up by this like online community, living online and forgetting what it's like to really communicate with other people.
• 44:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I find that once we go out into the world, we see the struggle to communicate.
• 44:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: And when the characters sort of in the center part of these movies start to have their, you know, they're struggling through life and they see their relationships breaking down.
• 44:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's almost like they're
• 44:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: feeling this dark sirens call back into that bleak world of just sort of online interactivity and there's this big montage at the end where they're just sort of fell into like reddit message boards and fortune.
• 45:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was something I saw and at least the portion I saw of chapter three as well.
• 45:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: This kind of like living in and out of the online experience and how it is this kind of weird cyclical pattern.
• 45:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that is of course my just
• 45:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: high pollutant film critic brain on overdrive perhaps
• 45:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, two, two folds to get into this question on the one end in terms of how it interacts with how the narrative interacts with the internet and these characters interact between this idea of real life and the in online life.
• 45:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like I think the movies, the horror of them in a way is the fact that the language people pick up online, then shapes the way that they bring it into their real life and in their interactions with other people.
• 45:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that for me, a lot of the impulse in terms of how I wanted to write this film was looking at how, especially post-COVID, where we did get this moment where online became the only real life for a lot of people, for a good amount of time.
• 46:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: It really changed the way people talk with each other.
• 46:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: where I think that a lot of the division is because people forgot about the empathize with the person on the other side of the computer screen.
• 46:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're now, if you go on the internet, if you open Twitter or something, God forbid, you're going to see people saying those heinous stuff to each other in a way that
• 46:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I growing up on the internet could see that like raw display of aid of like that anger and venom and and just like on I guess like on PC like like no like no consideration for being like like correct or in any way where like
• 46:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: It used to be always tied to singing anonymous, where it was only in anonymous places online.
• 47:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: People really felt like letting go in such an ugly way, which I think is why 4chan gets used as iconography in these films.
• 47:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: But like the thing is 4chan is just a funny old internet is like short hand.
• 47:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: People know what 4chan is.
• 47:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: If it pops up, it's a funny thing to see.
• 47:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: But the entire internet is just 4chan now.
• 47:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just that like that's like if you'll talk on Facebook.
• 47:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: under their real name, right, like which is like so insane to me in a very scary.
• 47:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: So then, you know, if you're not afraid to talk that way under your real name, then it does cycle into the way you're going to talk with people in real life.
• 47:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, you're going to take that the way that that may affect you back online in this like cycle of violence, but it's like the violence of language, right?
• 47:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Then to look at the Joyce comparisons, like, I mean, I'm a big fan of Joyce.
• 47:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've talked in other interviews about how I wanted to make the cinematic equivalents of Ulysses, where I wanted everything, like every moment in the movie to operate on multiple levels, where it's like, oh, yeah, you can, you know, edit this, where you can sync an album up to this.
• 48:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: section of the movie and it'll fit up perfectly, but you'd have to be like some on some crazy, like, loveful, it's even think to do so, um, or like, like, you know, playing with times timing of shots and, and, uh, like, I'm always thinking about, like, these conversations of, like, film form with, like, the narrative and in the same way that, like, Joyce always was playing with in his literature.
• 48:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I would kind of pitch,
• 48:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: the first movie is like Lebo Ham is by way of dubliners like I was definitely always kind of thinking about like the way that Joyce used every tool in the like toolbox of literary form and then also like making making up new tools as he went along stuff you that's so hard
• 49:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: continue playing in that same box.
• 49:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I am not nearly as smart as James Joyce.
• 49:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I think that I'm still limited to a certain amount in terms of like a lot of my illusions, but you know, like doing something like, especially like part two of castration movie, like I'm playing with so many different like myths.
• 49:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: throughout that.
• 49:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like there's definitely like some degree of like a finigan's weight type structure of the cyclical nature of that movie.
• 49:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: But like also I'm a big Joseph Campbell heads.
• 49:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm always playing with like these ideas and monomiths and like looking at the way I'm presenting castration movie.
• 49:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's there's you know so many literary illusions, but also like the illusions to film and opera and you know like all these different
• 49:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, what is your relationship to film critics so far?
• 50:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I, I would not have heard of this.
• 50:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'd have not been for Alexandria Hell or Nicholas of raving about the movie.
• 50:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, well, that I have to check that out.
• 50:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm curious, are you, are you reading reviews and all?
• 50:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Are you interested in how people on that side of the audience are interpreting it?
• 50:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: You think like a critic in a lot of ways.
• 50:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have a very deep well of reference and experience and knowledge of the art form and you're a judge.
• 50:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I mean, I'm not going to make those or critics.
• 50:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
• 50:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like, you're not flying by the sea of your pants.
• 50:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're really putting all of that in thought into it.
• 50:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: What has your thought been about the critical response so far?
• 50:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
• 50:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, like, I, you know, I'm a film academic like that was that somewhere where my background is like, I've been writing about film for the same amount of time and making films like, you know, even when I was in like junior high school, I was like, had my first job as a critic for a youth magazine like reviewing movies on so like I've always, uh,
• 51:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Which actually really funny, like the first review I ever did was for cabin in the woods, which I actually ended up working under Druka Tard on a like TV pilot he was directing and I said to him that that was the first thing I ever done he was a very sweet guy about it But yeah
• 51:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I've always been doing like writing about film.
• 51:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, so much of like the original like kind of transmedia project around these movies was like writing one essays about like, you know, me theorizing on these ideas around like what is like a trans cinema and stuff and using them to like discuss the choices I was making as I was
• 52:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: going about the production of these films at first.
• 52:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I wrote like a series of essays very early on where I was kind of trying to conceptualize what is my place in the industry, how am I going to shoot a movie with like an awareness of that.
• 52:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: So like I'm definitely
• 52:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: have very academically and critically minded filmmaker.
• 52:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: And as you said, like, all the best are, I mean, like, Revatt, who's always been like one of my all-time faiths, he was the editor-in-chief of Kades and I'm out for a very long time, so I definitely take a lot of inspiration there.
• 52:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: But in terms of my relationship with Chrisism of the movie, I think, um,
• 52:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: you know I'm extremely appreciative of it because you know as a film critic there's only so many hours in a day and there's more than enough movies to watch so I'm very grateful for anyone it takes the time to watch my work and and wanted to put time into writing about it but even then like two three years into this project it's been a
• 53:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, very easy to keep up with the writing because there hasn't been too much of it.
• 53:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, like, you've obviously been one of the earliest supporters on it alongside, like, Alexander has been a friend for years.
• 53:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: She helps me and my filmmaker, I worked at the Uncoble and find our first distribution deal for Deons, first features she directed.
• 53:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Alexander is an old friend who's been very supportive for years and I really love and admire her.
• 53:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: work obviously but you know outside like I think that the critics who have found it have it's been so fun to also get to be in that communication where like you know they'll write a new essay on the movie or review of one of the new movies.
• 53:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: I can't wait for the next one and like there's like a level by which I'm so excited to get to share the next one with the with the with the critics who are following the projects because like it it
• 53:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: you know, I'm like, oh, I want to surprise you.
• 54:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to like, you know, live up to this expectation.
• 54:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've set with this project and like keep it, you know, keep the work really strong.
• 54:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: But yes, I guess that for me, I, I almost have like a very direct relationship to the critics who have come on board, like I almost feel like a lot of the critics who have who have helped.
• 54:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: with keeping the profile in this movie.
• 54:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: So far, people who like, you know, I've had a drink with, I've seen it screenings, like, there are people who I do feel proximity to and a closeness to.
• 54:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I guess, I'm really curious what it will be like to see,
• 54:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: if it reaches a broader critical, you know, I'd be so curious to see writing from people who I don't feel like a closeness to, like people who feel like more distant from myself.
• 54:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, I've always been friends with a lot of film critics because it's definitely a very big side of my personality within the industry.
• 55:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is such like a massive sprawling project.
• 55:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: You said that there's like more parts coming in, the next part's going to be six hours.
• 55:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: This, you've essentially created your whole filmography in one movie, like this could be multiple films.
• 55:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's so many stories within this story.
• 55:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, once this is kind of wrapped, once the castration movie anthology is complete, is there really anywhere to go?
• 55:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what do you do after that?
• 55:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: How do you chase something like this?
• 55:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, so funny.
• 55:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we've got five movies, are like five parts planned total.
• 55:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the thing is it's so funny with the way that we've allowed offshoots and stuff.
• 55:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like the junior ghosts for more of a drift of fragmentary passage one was just going to be part of the next movie.
• 55:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Next one we got too long.
• 55:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: We decided to pull it out as like a side movie to the next movie.
• 56:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: So who knows how convoluted and crazy it's going to get with the rest of
• 56:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: castration was we finished towards the end point at the end of five parts, but it is like one story that we've been playing the whole time.
• 56:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I don't know, in terms of next projects, I mean, there is definitely the one side of me that thinks geez, I could just do everything from now on as a castration would be spin off and keep one universe going, like kind of like the
• 56:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: type stuff.
• 56:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like I could just keep doing movies in the castration movie universe if I want it to.
• 56:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I don't know.
• 56:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like I I just love cinema as an art form.
• 56:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: This has been an absolutely amazing project to get to do as kind of like.
• 56:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: in a way the thing I get to emerge with and find an audience for it because it is such an insane bold swing passion project where it's like exactly like at the end of the day it's moving on making for myself as the primary audience member because the movie I wanted to see out in the world and I get to you know makes things so attuned to my interest of cinema but like you know
• 57:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: more recently when I talk with other people in the industry that like my personal taste is like like 90's dad core like cinema in terms of like right point and up it's like like making like like like a be like the next Robert and some mechus or something where I can make like forced gump is like the the funniest thing that's like a genuine want of mine it's like that's the sort of movie where it's like making a movie that could just be like
• 57:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: thrown on like TBS in the afternoon and you know someone's gonna like tune in and watch it is like like my my sort of bread and butter in terms of like what I'm interested in cinematically long term um so yeah I guess I'm just down for anything I just love I just love movies so much that I'm not really a snob in any way like I had one friend reach out asking if I would like direct a lifetime movie and I was like hell yeah like I just
• 58:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: getting that serious offer with them is curiosity.
• 58:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was a, it was a, I'll say half serious where they said, hey, I'm throwing your name in for, of course, this job.
• 58:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, hell, yeah, I'd take it and art, be like, I just love, I just love making films.
• 58:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I, I just, I have no pretension around what I want the shape of my career to be as long as I get to just keep doing this thing that I'm so passionate about in love.
• 58:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I, I know anything I do.
• 58:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Even if it was saying a cynical as like a hallmark Christmas movie would still have some stamp of mine on it's you know, so it's like I just have no pretensions about that I just want to make movies
• 58:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: You said 90s dead core that's that's us like we're we're born in like late 70s early 80s So we're teenagers when all that stuff came out.
• 59:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right up our alley.
• 59:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah Do it.
• 59:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I want to see all well.
• 59:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's so funny because like one of the next cast creation movies I just want to like like I have one chapter that I wrote that is just a straight like 90s courtroom drama And I'm like just so everything I can get the money together to do that because it's like it's like that's
• 59:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Call, call Ashley Judge, she'd do it.
• 59:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
• 59:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 59:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's the funniest thing now is that you wouldn't expect it for castration movie, but basically anyone I talked to now wants to be in it, which is really funny because when we first started the project, there was a few Hail Mary's that we sent out to like friends of friends like where we asked like, would you want to be in this movie?
• 59:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, probably the funniest early one was like, one of my friends I was working with on set was really close
• 59:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: We, I got to send it, got my friend to send her a text, it was like, you want to be in castration movie and I can't back a quick buck no, but you guys, if sounds great, you guys sound fun, but now it's like anyone I talked to wants to get involved in some way, so I mean, I just want to, you know, I just love working with people and like, as I said, like, I'm just so,
• 1:00:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Excited by the prospects of like what cinema can do that.
• 1:00:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just like I would love to be the sort of filmmaker who can just like work with anybody and just like make whatever kinds of projects just like I think the biggest driver
• 1:00:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: For me is like, if I stop doing this, I feel like I'll die, so it's like that's why I'm like at this pace of trying to get like at least one movie out of year, and it's just like I can't imagine like taking a break, it's just like I get to live this thing that I'm so passionate about right now and it's just like the long growing keep doing that the better.
• 1:01:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I, I, I, I long to see a castration of the courtroom drama, but that actually for exactly I was kind of curious about, which is, is there any kind of story you could tell that definitely would not?
• 1:01:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: be in castration movie like you couldn't do I don't know supernatural or something like that is there is there some line that gets crossed you know it's so funny because uh i think we basically do like the fun thing of castration movie is that it also gets to be this movie about cinema itself like there's a lot of i think
• 1:01:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Jokes force in a files or people within the film community in there like I loved when we showed it now lay it brain dead and one person laughed extremely hard at the sin of family To sure There like you know like there's a lot of like
• 1:01:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, deep cut references to stuff in both film culture and like, you know, I've been in the film industry now for like 14 years like like there's it's definitely on some level also met a narrative about my relationship to the film industry and being an independent filmmaker.
• 1:02:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: So so like that's one level of it.
• 1:02:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that means that like, you know, there's the in part part four there's like a section that's like a western.
• 1:02:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: There, you know, part two is a horror movie.
• 1:02:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, I also love getting to like take castration movie out into this way where it's like, yeah, it can still be castration movie because castration movie is kind of like the top of the hierarchy, but then there's different things we can shoot within the world of castration movie where we can balance these ideas of tone and genre that as long as we're still capturing the essence of what castration movie is, we can kind of like stretch the limits of what can go on this narrative.
• 1:02:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like the narrative was always written
• 1:02:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: as this much bigger metaphysical, like all encompassing sort of sort of story that could be about everything where it's like it starts with this one girl having a hard time and it can turn into the end of the world, you know, like trying to stop the end of the world.
• 1:03:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like so it's like that's where we start and like over the course of 25 hours, it's like if you turn on a scene at the end of the last castration movie, you're going to
• 1:03:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: hell did we get here over 25 hours.
• 1:03:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: They would be such a stark contrast to where we started.
• 1:03:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that was always kind of like one of the fun things about what this project could be.
• 1:03:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Was that like it could encompass like every kitchen sink sort of idea that I ever had for what would be cool in the movie.
• 1:03:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to like ask where this is going because I want to be surprised, but I've been watching this thing for you know, many, many hours now, and I'm up in the air, and I'm worried that this is going to end badly for everybody.
• 1:03:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: So is everybody going to be okay?
• 1:03:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think that as people on this world are going to be okay, and I think that the narrative arc of castration movie reflects that I think that at the end of the day, it's an extremely optimistic text.
• 1:04:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think there's a lot of hope, I think that even within those first films, despite the darkness and bleakness of it, it's within those moments of kindness like it like it highlights the nice moments so much more when there's surrounded by this this this like desperation and and darkness and I think that that's what
• 1:04:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: the overall arc of what castration would be about is about is if you can fix yourself, if you can take care of your own heart, it'll fix the world.
• 1:04:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that that's the journey that these characters are on.
• 1:04:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I've,
• 1:04:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: As someone who's been a very big fan of long running TV shows, all these sorts of things that often can kind of fuck up their conclusions.
• 1:05:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm very hyper aware of the fact that I want to make sure I do a very good job.
• 1:05:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I try not to second guess myself too much, but like there is, I, I, as the person I'm making this movie for want to be very impressed by how this whole thing wraps up
• 1:05:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: in my heart and quite an optimist so I can promise that for me to feel satisfied it's going to have a happy ending for sure.
• 1:05:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: What long for a recurring story like you feel like didn't fuck it up like what's what's like and nothing you're going to follow it but like what got what got to right.
• 1:05:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: That is such a hard question.
• 1:05:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Are you so I think your hearts are
• 1:05:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, so I was going to say, well, actually the thing about fixer hearts or die is is I want to say my rendition of that is different from lunches because he says in that like I told those other guys fix the hearts or that within castration maybe I think it's it's reflecting inward it's I get the fixer own heart first that's like the important thing.
• 1:06:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I don't want anyone to die.
• 1:06:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that you know, I don't think that or die is part of it either.
• 1:06:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that we have to fix our own hearts.
• 1:06:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: But, um, fix your heart and the live would be much better thing.
• 1:06:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but, uh, where that was I go with this stuff that stuck the landing.
• 1:06:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I really love the film Love Exposure.
• 1:06:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's a great movie that to me sticks the landing.
• 1:06:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: I could exist that world forever.
• 1:06:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, it's one of those texts where it's like, by the time you get to the climax and your lead character picks up a sword and starts just like knocking bad guys as like hell yeah.
• 1:06:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm having a great time.
• 1:06:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that movie's great.
• 1:06:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's really hard for me to think of stuff that like fully satisfies me on a high level.
• 1:06:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: I really love the leftovers in terms of like television series.
• 1:07:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: is, you know, the return is a phenomenal text that I would say sticks the landing entirely, but it also lacks catharsis very intentionally.
• 1:07:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that that's something that I want to do differently is, I
• 1:07:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: The, you know, with the return, what makes the return, it's so specific and how it chooses to, to, you know, prevent you from getting the catharsis you're waiting for and I think that watching that whole series live episode to episode that there was nothing worse than the existential dread of that last 20 minutes going, oh my god, this isn't going to get wrapped up.
• 1:07:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: For me with castration movie, I definitely want it to, to, I guess, sure what's going to like the return does where it's like, you know, I want to work on both levels.
• 1:08:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to be emotionally cracked, but I also want it to feel narratively closed in a way that, you know, has clarity for, for the audience, and not, not in the handholding way, but like in a way where it's like, all the pieces are, are present and you don't need like a to go look at a
• 1:08:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've noticed a lot of like long running shows following to this problem where we don't really have like a great organic way to conclude every story and then like the last episode all of a sudden it begins somewhere like oh we'll really surprise them and we'll start with this other character we've never seen before or something and I'm like I don't care about them.
• 1:08:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's brutal.
• 1:08:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: I hate when they do that kind of stuff like like it really drives me crazy the sort of like like for me It's like from the first moments of frustration we're planting stuff like we were planting stuff where we were setting stuff up for the end where it was like we were shooting
• 1:08:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: concurrently knowing we were planning for the ending where it was like we would, you know, pull out a 16 millimeter camera while shooting one scene and go, okay, now we're going to shoot the side part of this.
• 1:09:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to play at the ending.
• 1:09:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like we were really on top of making sure that it was all being shot as one big story where I didn't want to throw that curve ball around anywhere where the structure was always such an integral part of the planning of it.
• 1:09:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I really want to avoid that sort of like a long form thing and where I think is good about like I remember when one of my first jobs at a film school was working on man in the high castle as a production assistant the Amazon TV show and I remember with that it was like you know all these writers are so excited they're setting up their arc for
• 1:09:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: two seasons to get to the conclusion over like the next like basically 20 episodes and then all the sudden they're on the second to last episode of shooting on like the what they think is the penultimate season and Amazon says sorry guys you got to wrap it up in one where we're not doing if we're not renewing you so on the sudden it's like like oh fucking as writers you're sitting around
• 1:10:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, like very even even as very talented writers, you're still stuck within that old system of like you don't know how long you're going to go for and like a lot of TV shows feel like they have multiple ending points because a show thinks they're ending and then they get you to again and then they got to figure out like.
• 1:10:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: You follow this great example of that, where a season two does that whole last episode like okay better wrap everything up really quickly and then all of a sudden you come back for another season.
• 1:10:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: You have no idea what to do with it.
• 1:10:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I think I think that that's saying that it.
• 1:10:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: really hurts conventional.
• 1:10:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: I guess like the same thing happens with like movie sequels.
• 1:10:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: You don't always know if you're going to get to keep doing this or all of a sudden they might flip you and say like oh actually we're going to wrap it up as a straight to streaming TV show.
• 1:11:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, like some can change so crazy.
• 1:11:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: The great thing about castration movies is it's like I'm the only one in charge of this.
• 1:11:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: If it gets done or not, it's fully dependent on me.
• 1:11:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, having the whole power to get through to the end.
• 1:11:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: No one can step in and tell me, okay guys, like wrap it up in the next movie.
• 1:11:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like we're done, like I get to just keep going until until I'm satisfied with it.
• 1:11:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 1:11:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think we need to start wrapping this up.
• 1:11:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you have any other, uh, last thoughts before we we go.
• 1:11:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, no, I just I really admire this.
• 1:11:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I really admire Louise.
• 1:11:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: I really admire these movies and I'm a big fan.
• 1:11:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to keep to the horn on these things because I think.
• 1:11:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you out here and and it's just fantastic to talk to a filmmaker is so thoughtful about influences and everything else.
• 1:11:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you for having a conversation with us.
• 1:11:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks, and I'll just show it out to people that we weren't currently touring the the castration will be part 2.5 as a were which is only two hours long and I think is a great entry point.
• 1:12:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: So if you see the the a screening near you of castration, we chapter three.
• 1:12:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Junior Ghosts from more Victor F. Defragmentary Passage.
• 1:12:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's an amazing place.
• 1:12:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's only two hours long.
• 1:12:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to dive deep into castration movie, you can find part one on the Criterion Channel, if you're in North America.
• 1:12:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Otherwise, the movies are...
• 1:12:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Also on canopy, if you have a library card, and otherwise the movies are on LouiseWord.com or castrationmovie.com, and you can just pay what you want to get it download to the first two movies, and also ton of bonus features.
• 1:12:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Muscle distribution has an amazing blue ray, also out in North America, and then Matchbox City has all the movies up on their website as well in Europe.
• 1:12:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: So there's a, it is so easy to watch this movie,
• 1:12:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like you can just go let you'll find it.
• 1:12:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's on internet archive You can torrent it on any torrenting side you want.
• 1:13:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've made it so anyone who wants to see it The thing is if you are somehow compelled to watch a 10 plus hour movie It should be as easy as possible freaking to see that thing as soon as you want to and we've never lost
• 1:13:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, so the second you've heard about this and you want to watch and just go download it right now and it can sit on your computer for as long as you want it to someone told me that that someone had dropped a copy of it on pulse Raider's desktop.
• 1:13:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, so it's been sitting there for a really long time.
• 1:13:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm curious if I'll ever get this get as a Facebook post.
• 1:13:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe we can convince his AI girlfriend to tell him to watch it Because I would love an unhinged old creator of Facebook post about this movie.
• 1:13:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you name check him in it.
• 1:13:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think my favorite line in the second film is that
• 1:13:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: something like, I have not had enough wine to talk about Paul Shreder right now.
• 1:13:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, what did I say with all Ivy woke coming up with that one?
• 1:13:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I wish I could write a banger that great, but that was 100% Ivy.
• 1:14:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: That one.
• 1:14:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Brilliant.
• 1:14:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, well listen, thank you for listening.
• 1:14:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Make sure you check out castration movie, wherever you can find it, check out the new one, wherever it's playing, and however you can get it for the love of God, you're going to love it.
• 1:14:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, of course, thank you for subscribing to the show, if you haven't already, that would be a great time.
• 1:14:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can also head on over to our Patreon.com slash critically acclaimed network, where we have literally, I think, over a thousand exclusive podcasts on a variety of topics, including film history, Star Trek commentary tracks, every Adam West Batman ever made.
• 1:14:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
• 1:14:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: The high pollutant, the low pollutant, everything and the huge ad overpatients about it and we couldn't do any of this.
• 1:14:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you want to talk about anything we discuss in any of our shows, our email address is letters that critically claimed.net Whitney, what is our PO box?
• 1:14:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, send us a physical letter, postcard, what you'd be like to the critically claims network PO Box 641565 Los Angeles, California, 9W 64, do it today.
• 1:15:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, uh, and uh, that's it.
• 1:15:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks again to Louise Ward and never forget everyone is a critic.
• 1:15:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to go to the midnash show.
• 1:15:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry, what?