Latest / Tony & Sarah Unscripted / Ep 20: A Journey to Fatherhood: Love, Surrogacy, and Family

Transcript

Ep 20: A Journey to Fatherhood: Love, Surrogacy, and Family · Tony & Sarah Unscripted

• 0:08
  Well, welcome back to Tony and Sarah Unscripted.
• 0:11
  Thank you so much for joining us.
• 0:12
  We are here with Justin Ziegler, who I'd like to say
• 0:17
  is a really good friend of mine, but that's not true.
• 0:19
  Not really.
• 0:21
  Friendship. We're growing friendship.
• 0:23
  I met Justin a few years ago.
• 0:27
  I feel for pride. Yep.
• 0:28
  You make these incredible canvas totes.
• 0:31
  All sorts of little things. Like.
• 0:33
  Like I have the ones a lot about Jesus as well, which I really, really like,
• 0:37
  because I'm a big fan of Jesus and I'm a big fan of of LGBTQ.
• 0:41
  So. Me too.
• 0:42
  Like, let's combine them if we can.
• 0:44
  Would you manage to do that? Very well.
• 0:46
  Yeah. Thank you. On the bags.
• 0:48
  And then I recently got, like, a little baby thing from you that you had made.
• 0:52
  So all of these cute things.
• 0:53
  But, but you also do other things. Yeah.
• 0:57
  Do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself?
• 0:58
  Sure.
• 0:59
  So, I live in Madison, Connecticut with my husband and our seven month
• 1:03
  old baby, who is possibly the world's cutest human.
• 1:07
  It is true.
• 1:08
  He's very cute.
• 1:09
  But, yeah.
• 1:10
  So, very, very busy.
• 1:12
  Dot com is the business that I have.
• 1:15
  It's, I own the trademark, which is a fascinating process to get a trademark.
• 1:19
  I own the trademark.
• 1:21
  Is it a long process?
• 1:22
  It is a weirdly long and and like
• 1:25
  this whole I'm not a business person.
• 1:27
  I, you know, went to school for theater and religion.
• 1:30
  And so all of this stuff has been like a oh, I guess I'll figure that out.
• 1:34
  Kind of process, but, actually very gay, very busy.
• 1:38
  Started out of us raising money for surrogacy
• 1:42
  because our Sam Bennett was born via surrogacy.
• 1:45
  And needing to find other ways to do that.
• 1:47
  So I work for local municipality full time here.
• 1:52
  I am a clergy person.
• 1:54
  That's my background and my training.
• 1:56
  So I actually do a lot of weddings for folks on the side.
• 2:00
  I also work for a handful of funeral homes,
• 2:02
  so I'm a contractor with different funeral homes.
• 2:05
  You really are very gay and very busy.
• 2:07
  I am really
• 2:07
  I don't know about the very gay part, but you're certainly very busy.
• 2:10
  Yeah. Oh, you were busy.
• 2:12
  I know right?
• 2:13
  So I, I do that. I work. As well.
• 2:16
  I love data analysis.
• 2:18
  So that's been I it's it's a fascinating it's just really interesting
• 2:21
  and all the story. I think I love storytelling, so.
• 2:24
  Yeah. Being able to do that.
• 2:25
  So I work as a contractor with a nonprofit that does data analysis.
• 2:30
  And I run
• 2:31
  very gay, very busy.com, and I think you and I were introduced years ago.
• 2:35
  And I believe you I was on a panel or something.
• 2:38
  Yeah. Does that does that ring a bell. I don't know.
• 2:40
  I think that's what.
• 2:41
  Yeah.
• 2:42
  We were having a family night for the municipality where I work.
• 2:45
  And helping folk, get a realistic understanding
• 2:50
  of supporting their loved ones, especially their loved ones
• 2:54
  who are under the age of 18, who are
• 2:57
  identified as LGBTQ plus.
• 2:59
  And so you were very kindly, you came and spoke and worked with a lot of our,
• 3:05
  with a lot of our folk and just had real, honest, open conversations.
• 3:09
  Yeah. I remember that night.
• 3:11
  I love those types of conversations, don't you?
• 3:13
  Yeah. They're great.
• 3:14
  So one thing I'm very nosy about and is, is, is the whole surrogacy process.
• 3:20
  Is that something that you could talk to us about
• 3:22
  like sort of from beginning to end, knowing
• 3:24
  that we only have a half hour, but, you know.
• 3:26
  Yeah.
• 3:27
  I mean, it's a, I mean, people are really curious about.
• 3:29
  Yeah. Because I think it is
• 3:33
  it's a deeply personal.
• 3:35
  And I have never signed more contracts in my life
• 3:38
  like that are really intricate and fascinating.
• 3:42
  But, so my husband and I actually, on our second
• 3:45
  date, like, we are both pretty direct humans.
• 3:49
  And we both, you know, said we want to be dead someday.
• 3:52
  And I think with that kind of like, lets, you know, I really don't want to spend
• 3:59
  my time, like, you know, dating somebody who doesn't want to build a family.
• 4:04
  So, And we've been married for ten years.
• 4:07
  And the surrogacy process itself,
• 4:10
  is beyond expensive.
• 4:13
  You know, figuring out that's why I very gay, very busy, came into
• 4:17
  in into existence, figuring out ways to fund it.
• 4:20
  But we started it was about a three year from when we signed on.
• 4:25
  We worked with an agency, an amazing agency,
• 4:28
  Growing Generations, based out of Los Angeles.
• 4:31
  And we interviewed and figured out that that's really where we wanted to go.
• 4:35
  And when I talked to people
• 4:36
  about starting the process, you know, what I always say is
• 4:41
  this is what worked for us, but have the, you know, do
• 4:44
  your research, have the best conversations you can.
• 4:47
  We we worked we were paired
• 4:50
  with an amazing case manager that really helped us walk through the process.
• 4:56
  And growing generations paired us with the right lawyers.
• 4:58
  They paired us with the right doctors.
• 5:00
  They paired us with, and really gave us
• 5:03
  the emotional support that we needed as we step through the process.
• 5:08
  You know, we an egg donor and the surrogate are two different people.
• 5:12
  So we first had to get.
• 5:14
  That's why you have to paying all these people.
• 5:17
  Paying. You're paying for all these people.
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  You're paying for all the warrior fees.
• 5:20
  Well, then, so when I watch this on TV, you,
• 5:23
  you see someone who's pregnant and you're like, I'll take that.
• 5:26
  That baby.
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  Like, you know, someone who's like, oh, I, you know, I'm too.
• 5:29
  And then all of a sudden they, they just get to be the the surrogate.
• 5:32
  That's not how that was. Just. That's not how this happened.
• 5:34
  No no no no no no no no no.
• 5:36
  Like I like I like you if you carry. Yeah.
• 5:39
  And some people go that path. Right.
• 5:41
  And some people have loved ones who want to carry for them
• 5:44
  or loved ones who.
• 5:46
  And and that was just not for us.
• 5:48
  And again, it's 100% personal choice, right?
• 5:51
  I could have gone through my role at X with my friends.
• 5:53
  Been like, what Jerome doing for nine months.
• 5:55
  Like, yeah, not really.
• 5:59
  Right. No.
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  And and we were paired with an amazing egg donor,
• 6:05
  who is remains anonymous,
• 6:08
  but we, you know, you get to see pictures of them as an adult.
• 6:11
  You get to see pictures of them, you read a bio,
• 6:16
  you get to see pictures of them as children.
• 6:18
  You get to see pictures of them as children.
• 6:20
  So you kind of go through.
• 6:21
  And so you didn't get paired, you picked one.
• 6:23
  You were able to pick.
• 6:24
  Like I'll say.
• 6:25
  So I just want to make sure you're picking an egg donor.
• 6:28
  So yeah, it's kind of like, and and this might sound real tacky,
• 6:32
  but it's like, dating apps, but for, like, egg donors, right?
• 6:36
  So you go through,
• 6:37
  you get an app and you kind of swipe through
• 6:40
  and figure out what's going to work for you.
• 6:42
  What we're and there's lots of different factors that go into that.
• 6:46
  And then,
• 6:47
  you know, there's all the genetic testing that has to happen because of that.
• 6:50
  With,
• 6:51
  you know, to make sure that any embryo that's created is going to be healthy.
• 6:56
  So, you know, we did that whole process.
• 6:59
  Our embryos were frozen.
• 7:00
  Our physicians were all in Los Angeles because that's where we were based out
• 7:05
  of. So this also involved flying back and forth from Connecticut to Los Angeles.
• 7:09
  And the other piece that, you know, we found a little scary.
• 7:14
  Well, pretty scary was, Bennett was as an embryo was,
• 7:18
  in a facility
• 7:22
  that was part of the wildfires that happened a couple.
• 7:25
  So remember when the wildfires were coming?
• 7:27
  And every day there would be, like a new update of, like, where they are?
• 7:30
  And we're having to watch, like, is our baby going to be evacuated,
• 7:33
  like, what's happening here?
• 7:35
  So it was pretty intense in that, in that way.
• 7:40
  All the time, you know, all the while just,
• 7:43
  you know, kind of praying and hoping that things would work out.
• 7:45
  And they did, because, again, world's cutest baby.
• 7:48
  So I have another question. Yeah, please. This is fascinating.
• 7:51
  Now, and you don't have to answer.
• 7:52
  This is just a it's a curiosity question when you were picking out
• 7:56
  the donor.
• 7:58
  Were you looking at.
• 8:00
  Physical characteristics that might have matched either one of you.
• 8:03
  Not really.
• 8:04
  Okay. I always thought maybe that's interesting.
• 8:06
  Again, some people totally do. Right.
• 8:09
  And, you know, more power to you.
• 8:10
  I we were looking for somebody.
• 8:15
  Looking for someone.
• 8:17
  Well, one growing Generations does a great job again
• 8:20
  of making sure that everybody is physically healthy,
• 8:23
  that making sure everybody's mentally healthy and capable
• 8:25
  of making this decision and everybody's financially healthy enough
• 8:28
  where you're not taking advantage of somebody in a desperate situation.
• 8:32
  Right.
• 8:32
  And so
• 8:35
  doing this as ethically as doing this very ethically,
• 8:38
  and, you know, for us, it
• 8:42
  just felt right, like, you know, our donor just felt right.
• 8:46
  And, so we were we were able to, you know, retrieve eggs,
• 8:51
  create our embryos, and then we got paired with the most magical surrogate.
• 8:55
  I mean, it was.
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  She's hands down.
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  And for her privacy, I want your name, but, hands down
• 9:02
  the most magical, kind, sweet,
• 9:06
  loving person. And
• 9:10
  just cannot thank her enough.
• 9:12
  Just cannot thank her enough for, the kindness that she shared.
• 9:16
  And the the partnership that she shared along the way.
• 9:21
  And also completely respecting us and our journey and our privacy.
• 9:26
  And, you know,
• 9:29
  we got to know her and her family, and it was just such a gift.
• 9:33
  So, you know, was she in LA or she she is in a different part of the country.
• 9:37
  Okay. So again, we had another part of the country.
• 9:39
  So you had to travel to.
• 9:41
  Okay. Yeah.
• 9:41
  So, she is based in Charlotte, so.
• 9:45
  Okay.
• 9:46
  So she was having to fly to la, to do, her medical appointments there, and.
• 9:52
  Oh, so she has to use the doctors that, that this, this organization is used.
• 9:56
  Yeah.
• 9:56
  So after she was pregnant, she was able to use her own physicians in Charlotte.
• 10:00
  But, again,
• 10:04
  it's just the nightmare of coordination.
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  And that's what part of the agency does.
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  And that's where part of the money goes to is them coordinating her travel, them
• 10:14
  coordinating her hotels, them coordinating,
• 10:17
  all of that work, communication with her,
• 10:20
  making sure that she feels good and supported and cared for.
• 10:23
  And she has the resources that she needs, in case she needs to, you know,
• 10:28
  maybe she needs to say, like,
• 10:29
  I'm uncomfortable with the way Justin and Michael or doing this,
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  you know,
• 10:33
  and so she can say that to the case manager,
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  and the case manager can have a conversation with us.
• 10:37
  So it pulls out, any of the threat of something,
• 10:42
  you know, her being forced to do something or uncomfortable in that way.
• 10:45
  But I know this is a harsh question. Please.
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  What if something happened while she was pregnant and she lost the child?
• 10:53
  And that happens. Right?
• 10:54
  Yeah. That happens definitely.
• 10:56
  Because there's money involved. Right?
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  There is contracts involved.
• 10:59
  It just doesn't.
• 11:00
  It's not just a miscarriage now, which is its own heartache.
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  And and you know, there's and for privacy reasons,
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  I won't go into everything, but that's, you know,
• 11:09
  those are things that are built into the actual, the contract.
• 11:13
  I would imagine that they were. Yeah.
• 11:15
  You know, and at that point, she wanted to be done
• 11:17
  or, you know, that's something that could be built in.
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  And so that's a conversation that when you're picking a surrogate,
• 11:24
  and working with a surrogate that you were really
• 11:27
  it has forced me to be,
• 11:32
  to really lean into the mantra of, to be clear as to be kind.
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  And I need to be as clear as humanly possible
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  so that no surprises are happening.
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  Everybody knows what's going on, and there's lots of layers involved.
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  There's judges involved.
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  There's all this kind of stuff.
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  And so it's deeply respecting the journey that she's going through as well
• 11:53
  and making sure that she's comfortable with how we want to proceed and that,
• 11:57
  you know, and we're comfortable with what she's going to need,
• 12:00
  as well as a, as a person carrying this child.
• 12:04
  And that's just a constant conversation with someone you're just getting to know.
• 12:08
  Which is a lot of work.
• 12:11
  Yeah, a lot of work.
• 12:13
  And then from there, we were able to,
• 12:17
  you know, when we became pregnant, she actually called us on Father's Day
• 12:20
  and let us know that she had taken very early.
• 12:24
  So we, you know, can't get too excited about it yet.
• 12:26
  But on Father's Day, on Father's Day, a lot of stuff.
• 12:28
  Oh my gosh.
• 12:30
  Which was so kind. Of her again.
• 12:33
  She's just she's kind of person who would think about that and go,
• 12:37
  I know they want
• 12:38
  they will want to know a Father's Day like, you know, and let them know.
• 12:41
  And so she again
• 12:46
  super giving and loving in that way.
• 12:48
  And we were able to participate in the pregnancy.
• 12:51
  Some from afar, some from traveling.
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  You know, a lot from photos, a lot from conversations on the phone,
• 12:57
  a lot of texting.
• 12:58
  It's a fascinating group chat.
• 13:00
  You know, fascinating group chat.
• 13:03
  And then, you know, when, when Bennett was born,
• 13:07
  us traveling to Charlotte to be there.
• 13:10
  You know, we we tried to be there at least a week early, is what they suggest.
• 13:14
  So we got there and just kind of lived in Charlotte for until til Little Man came.
• 13:19
  Yeah.
• 13:19
  And then we were able to, you know, baby's first road trip.
• 13:23
  You can't fly with a newborn.
• 13:25
  Some people do. Okay. So,
• 13:28
  yeah, they they don't have an immune system quite yet.
• 13:30
  And some people do, which it's like puppies on shots before people can.
• 13:34
  Yes. Before you should go near.
• 13:35
  But don't go to the dog park if they don't have their shots. Right.
• 13:37
  So we, we learned a whole lot about traveling
• 13:42
  with a baby, because on day three, we were driving across the country.
• 13:46
  How long did it take you to drive? About 23 hours.
• 13:48
  Wow. Okay.
• 13:49
  And my husband got really good at changing diapers on his lap,
• 13:54
  because, again,
• 13:55
  you can't go into the gas station because he doesn't have an immune system.
• 13:58
  Yeah. Right.
• 13:58
  So figuring that all out on the fly.
• 14:01
  And I think that's what my biggest lesson of parenthood has been is,
• 14:07
  I've worked
• 14:07
  in youth development for years, and I've worked with parents for years,
• 14:10
  and I want to go back to every single parent and be like, I am deeply sorry
• 14:14
  I gave you so much advice.
• 14:16
  Like, that was just like, yeah, textbook accurate.
• 14:19
  Yes. Like, yeah.
• 14:20
  And you just make it up, right?
• 14:23
  Like, you just make it up.
• 14:25
  And I was so blessed to have amazing parents.
• 14:28
  I was child number three.
• 14:29
  So they had some practice in front of me. Right.
• 14:32
  But they were making it
• 14:35
  up, and I don't think kids know that.
• 14:38
  Thank goodness. Like they shouldn't.
• 14:40
  Yeah. They should, they should know that. Yeah. Right.
• 14:41
  For like for, for health and, you know, development.
• 14:46
  They shouldn't know their parents are making it up.
• 14:47
  But like, I am constantly going, I think this is what I'm supposed to do.
• 14:51
  And then, you know, silently later texting my sister, being like,
• 14:55
  I did this, like, what's that accurate?
• 14:59
  And like, and that was another mazing gift.
• 15:02
  Is that my friends?
• 15:04
  So both Michael and my parents are our families live in the Midwest.
• 15:08
  And so we are kind of lone Island
• 15:12
  coasters out here, and it's been amazing gifts to have our friend family
• 15:17
  and our and our our family biological family really stepping up
• 15:20
  and, you know, giving advice over, text and group chats.
• 15:24
  But, you know,
• 15:26
  I deeply
• 15:27
  love that my friends will give advice, but not in
• 15:31
  that you should do this, but in like, hey, I did this and it kind of worked for us.
• 15:35
  Give it a shot.
• 15:37
  Anything from here is the baby carrier
• 15:40
  that we used to, What, like, the best thing I'll ever tell
• 15:45
  anybody is when your child is screaming, just walk outside.
• 15:47
  Just walk up.
• 15:48
  Like take them.
• 15:49
  Like, either you walk outside, you know, take break or take your kid outside.
• 15:53
  Because the moment I don't know what it is,
• 15:55
  the moment he hits fresh air sure is the moment he's done.
• 15:59
  He's good. He's solid.
• 16:00
  Yeah.
• 16:00
  And I remember one time I think it was week, I don't even know week.
• 16:05
  Something in the, like haze of paternity leave.
• 16:08
  And he was losing his mind.
• 16:10
  And I also was losing my mind.
• 16:13
  And I walked outside with him and he was just in a diaper, and I was wearing like,
• 16:18
  shorts that had paint on them from painting the nursery
• 16:21
  and like, an undershirt and like an old sweater and flip flops.
• 16:25
  And I walked outside and I was like, oh, he calmed down and I walked back in
• 16:29
  and he started screaming again.
• 16:30
  I was like, I guess we're staying in touch.
• 16:32
  And I just, like,
• 16:33
  literally just looped around our cul de sac, just like walked in our cul de sac.
• 16:36
  And my neighbor texted, and she's like, you okay?
• 16:39
  Like, you get like, fine, we're good.
• 16:43
  I'd just been to get through this moment and we're just walking outside.
• 16:47
  Yeah, that's what we're gonna do.
• 16:48
  And I think I deeply appreciate,
• 16:53
  the love and compassion that I've received from my family.
• 16:57
  You know, through the whole process.
• 16:58
  And from my, my, you know, my full time day job,
• 17:03
  you know, my work family, they're just really.
• 17:08
  Knowing
• 17:09
  days where the surrogacy journey, you know, wasn't always easy.
• 17:14
  And so just knowing that
• 17:15
  there are moments where I was present, but I was really struggling, and they knew,
• 17:19
  they could step up, or our friends,
• 17:24
  sending love and care through.
• 17:27
  You know, the way to my heart is, Reese's peanut butter cups and, like, just like,
• 17:31
  sending some random Reese's peanut butter cups when they needed them.
• 17:36
  And I think, you know, what I deeply appreciate is that
• 17:39
  Bennett is growing up in the most loving community space.
• 17:44
  Like, I love that he goes, like, so he has a nanny one day a week.
• 17:49
  We go to daycare mostly, but he has nanny one day a week who's a dear friend.
• 17:53
  And, I get texts from the librarians because Bennett showed up to the library
• 17:57
  and they're like, Bennett was here today and like to do.
• 18:00
  And I was like, that's so small town. Great.
• 18:04
  I love that. That's what my kid needs, right?
• 18:06
  Yeah, he needs, book nerds being excited when he walks in the door.
• 18:12
  You know, sometimes we go and visit the senior center with, together,
• 18:15
  and like, the, you know, the seniors are thrilled to see. Yes.
• 18:19
  You know, we walk through the supermarket and there's at least two people that are,
• 18:24
  you know, stopping and checking in and how he's doing.
• 18:27
  His daycare staff, just like, I'm like, can I have my baby back?
• 18:32
  Like, can I, like, I know you love him, right?
• 18:35
  But it's it's time for us to go, like and give me my baby.
• 18:39
  And, you know, and my husband is just.
• 18:44
  I'm in awe of his fathering capacity.
• 18:46
  Like, I'm just in awe.
• 18:48
  And I'm trying to keep up, like,
• 18:51
  he's just so gentle and so patient
• 18:55
  and so kind and just,
• 18:58
  you know, it's it's falling in love with the whole new aspect of him.
• 19:03
  Seeing him
• 19:06
  just do such a great job.
• 19:07
  Yeah.
• 19:08
  So this whole, this whole journey has been,
• 19:12
  you know, from day two of us saying we both want to be dads
• 19:16
  to, you know, being paired with the greatest surrogacy agency
• 19:21
  that we could have found to be finding this amazing
• 19:24
  surrogate who just,
• 19:28
  you know, slowly
• 19:30
  walked us through the process of what it was, what it was like.
• 19:33
  And it was her first time doing this as well.
• 19:35
  She was. She's never been very good.
• 19:36
  Oh, wow.
• 19:37
  Here I was thinking that she had been doing it like.
• 19:41
  Yeah. So she has her own.
• 19:42
  She has.
• 19:43
  She has a family.
• 19:44
  And in in.
• 19:47
  I don't know about the law, but through our agency,
• 19:49
  you have had to have, been able you've had to have given birth before,
• 19:53
  before you were able to be a surrogate. Yeah.
• 19:56
  And just again, I'm in awe of everyone's skill and talent.
• 20:02
  So she's super cool, super kind.
• 20:04
  Is she now totally out of the picture?
• 20:06
  Is that how it works?
• 20:07
  I mean, is is it in the contract that there's no communication
• 20:11
  after the birth or, once she I,
• 20:14
  I'm probably gonna send her the link to this podcast and be like, hey,
• 20:17
  like should because you've really talked very nicely about her.
• 20:21
  Great.
• 20:21
  And to, you know, we, we text back and forth.
• 20:25
  So, it's, it's that kind of conversation.
• 20:27
  It's good. It's a, it's a friend, relationship.
• 20:30
  Wonderful. Cool.
• 20:31
  And in no way, shape or form does she.
• 20:36
  You know,
• 20:36
  I think Bennett's going to know that a very kind person.
• 20:39
  And you might not know her personally.
• 20:41
  Yeah. But a very kind person.
• 20:44
  Went out of her way to make our family happen.
• 20:47
  My gosh, that's very emotional. It's beautiful.
• 20:50
  Beautifully sad.
• 20:50
  Beautifully sad.
• 20:51
  And it's it's a, I can see such, like,
• 20:57
  happiness in you.
• 20:58
  Right. So,
• 21:01
  I do have a question, though, because you have
• 21:03
  you mentioned something on Facebook that I never thought about?
• 21:06
  Oh my gosh.
• 21:06
  Which, as you said, why is it that they don't have changing rooms?
• 21:10
  Oh my gosh.
• 21:11
  I mean, changing sorry tables.
• 21:13
  Yeah. In men's.
• 21:14
  Yeah. Why don't they. That's true.
• 21:16
  It's insane. You have to find a family room.
• 21:18
  Family bathroom. The family bathroom.
• 21:19
  Not to add to your plate, but I feel like this is something you need to start
• 21:23
  really working on. Like, this is what they should.
• 21:24
  Every single men's.
• 21:28
  But it's not only.
• 21:29
  Why is it always assumed that the woman
• 21:31
  is the one that's going to bring the child in? This should be a changing.
• 21:33
  They should just be a changing table at every in every in every space.
• 21:36
  Right.
• 21:37
  And it's it's fascinating the places we go.
• 21:39
  And like,
• 21:40
  I get it that like, some bathrooms don't have, like, in any restroom whatsoever.
• 21:44
  And like, as a parent, you're like, cool.
• 21:46
  Gonna change your diaper on my lap,
• 21:48
  on the toilet, and we're just gonna make this happen?
• 21:51
  Yeah.
• 21:51
  But there are moments where, like, this past weekend, I.
• 21:56
  I didn't want to be weird or uncomfortable, but, like, I,
• 21:59
  it was a single stall
• 22:00
  bathroom, and I was like, okay, when is the men's room checked?
• 22:02
  It was like, okay, there's no changing station here.
• 22:04
  I'm gonna see if the women's one's open, because nine times out of ten
• 22:08
  there's one there. There wasn't one there either.
• 22:09
  So I was like, okay. No, no, no for everybody.
• 22:12
  I'd go in the men's room and change him, but yeah, it's, you know,
• 22:16
  when I brought it up before, it is that idea of why is it that in
• 22:22
  any family that the woman would be the one who would be expected
• 22:25
  to change the diaper, and there's no expectation?
• 22:27
  That's not 1924. Yeah.
• 22:29
  Yeah.
• 22:29
  Right.
• 22:29
  One time I was with Bennett and somebody like, oh, you're babysitting today.
• 22:32
  If I was like, men don't babysit their babies.
• 22:35
  Like, we we we take care of our children.
• 22:37
  Also. There's.
• 22:39
  You're babysitting?
• 22:40
  Yeah, yeah. Like, oh, you're babysitting today.
• 22:41
  And he knew was my kid.
• 22:43
  And so I was like, that's very strange.
• 22:46
  Strange, right?
• 22:46
  Fatherhood comes or like, I think people think,
• 22:51
  you know, I think Michael and I are doing great jobs at being dads,
• 22:55
  but I think literally anything we do is like, that's amazing.
• 22:58
  Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:00
  You are a deeply sensitive are capable like like you are deeply sensitive soul.
• 23:04
  Because you know that your baby needs a pacifier.
• 23:06
  I'm like, he is screaming like.
• 23:09
  And clearly he needs a big eight. Let's see.
• 23:12
  Said something similar when he does something.
• 23:14
  Yeah. It's so funny.
• 23:15
  It is like, okay, like thank you. And dove.
• 23:19
  Right.
• 23:19
  And so yeah, there's there's some stuff
• 23:22
  that, I think just because, you know, Ben
• 23:26
  has two dads that we have to, you know, that we'll have to navigate, like.
• 23:29
  I did hear a rumor cannot substantiate this.
• 23:32
  But in any new build in the state of Connecticut, of a building of a certain
• 23:36
  size, there has to be a changing table in men's and women's restrooms.
• 23:40
  Nice. Which is great.
• 23:42
  Now, the only thing is, I don't know about other parents.
• 23:45
  My kid is terrified of the hand dryer, which is always right near that I need it.
• 23:50
  Stop putting it there.
• 23:51
  Is it really putting it there and or.
• 23:58
  Paper towels?
• 23:59
  Yeah.
• 23:59
  And if you see a baby being changed, don't use a hand dryer.
• 24:03
  Just don't use it.
• 24:05
  Be like be mindful of the tiny human who doesn't know that.
• 24:09
  That's not fair to destroy him.
• 24:11
  That needs to be a call for action, people.
• 24:13
  I don't know what.
• 24:14
  That one right there.
• 24:15
  Yeah. Do not use a hand dryer if there's a baby.
• 24:18
  Just don't do it like it's.
• 24:20
  Use your pants or something. Yeah, yeah. It's fine.
• 24:23
  I know it's not as hygienic, but the speaker.
• 24:26
  Yeah. Figure it out. Figuring it out. Yeah.
• 24:27
  And so that's been, like, just little things like that
• 24:31
  where I'm like, oh, I didn't know
• 24:32
  that was a problem for people, but this is a problem.
• 24:34
  And I like a lot of opinions about. Yeah.
• 24:37
  That's right. Right.
• 24:39
  But even even even when I think back to Joe and I, we have I have three children.
• 24:44
  And when they were little, I mean,
• 24:45
  he never took them into the bathroom because there was no there's no space.
• 24:48
  So it just wasn't even suggested.
• 24:50
  It wasn't even an option.
• 24:51
  It wouldn't even think about it.
• 24:53
  Yeah.
• 24:54
  You know, so but I didn't start thinking about it until you posted about it.
• 24:57
  And then, you know, all my female friends were like,
• 24:59
  yeah, like when my husband would have the kids,
• 25:01
  they would have to go to the car or, like, you do the weird lap change where
• 25:05
  it's like they're squirming and wiggling and then you're figuring it out.
• 25:08
  Right.
• 25:10
  What is
• 25:12
  what's the hardest thing do you think about being a parent?
• 25:16
  I would say it's not even the like for me personally.
• 25:20
  I know it's different for every single person who parents.
• 25:23
  And there's so many different ways to parent.
• 25:25
  I don't think you have to, have a biological child to be a parent.
• 25:29
  I think you compare it in so many ways.
• 25:31
  It is the.
• 25:34
  Nonstop mind.
• 25:36
  Like just running always of, even when I'm sleeping.
• 25:40
  I'm listening.
• 25:41
  Even when you're when he's at daycare, I'm thinking, okay, is it good?
• 25:44
  Like, okay, did I leave him enough clothes?
• 25:46
  Like, you know, that kind of stuff where clearly and present
• 25:49
  taking care of what I need to take care of
• 25:50
  doing the 7000 other work responsibilities and social responsibilities
• 25:55
  that you're supposed to do.
• 25:57
  But for me, it's the mental fatigue that comes in.
• 25:59
  And that's where I deeply appreciate my partnership with my husband,
• 26:03
  because there are moments where we look at each other.
• 26:05
  I'm like, I don't got it.
• 26:07
  Can you please be the one that's more mentally pregnant?
• 26:10
  I'm glad that's communicated. Yeah.
• 26:12
  Yeah. You have to a lovely couple.
• 26:15
  They gave us that suggestion of like at the end of like,
• 26:17
  you know when you're at, towards the end of the day,
• 26:19
  look at each other and say which, which one of us has.
• 26:22
  Yeah. Like I don't have 50% here. I'm. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:24
  Which one of us has more gas and like, yeah, the other one will fix the bottles.
• 26:28
  Get ready for daycare tomorrow and like you know do the that stuff that,
• 26:33
  might not take as much engagement because while my baby is chill, he is a baby.
• 26:37
  Right.
• 26:38
  And he needs,
• 26:39
  he wants to chew on the right book, and he wants to roll
• 26:42
  over where he wants to roll over and and like, you just have to be on it.
• 26:45
  And, so for me, it's a mental fatigue.
• 26:48
  But it's been again,
• 26:53
  I have a neighbor
• 26:54
  that, will in a heartbeat come over
• 26:58
  when I'm saying I need, I need something, can you just come over?
• 27:02
  And I don't care that the house is messy.
• 27:04
  I have colleagues that will like, you know, whenever.
• 27:08
  Like, they are so loving and they'll come over and help
• 27:12
  or they'll say, of course, bring him in for,
• 27:14
  you know, 20 minutes before, of course, because they want to see it.
• 27:16
  I mean, they a you're like, I need a break.
• 27:18
  And they're like, yeah, you know, or you know, you know, our,
• 27:22
  our biological family is not here, but, you know, both my siblings are parents.
• 27:28
  My parents did, I think, a pretty good job.
• 27:31
  And, and, you know, my my friend family around the country,
• 27:36
  I know that the moment I need something is the moment that they will
• 27:41
  help, and, you know, or even just listen, is has been such a such a blessing.
• 27:47
  Well, I,
• 27:48
  I am so happy that this has been such a positive, wonderful experience for you.
• 27:52
  And I can tell, of course, I'm sure Michael's a good parent, the father.
• 27:56
  But I am positive if you were an amazing one as well.
• 27:59
  So I'm just getting to know you and have seen all the Facebook posts,
• 28:03
  which of course is what makes you think like I'm like,
• 28:05
  of course I know Justin and I'm like, I don't really know Justin.
• 28:07
  Yeah, I don't really knows him.
• 28:08
  I remember Justin from years ago, I don't know.
• 28:11
  But so thank you so much for.
• 28:12
  I know my gosh.
• 28:13
  Yeah, yeah.
• 28:14
  And thank you for for being open with with the journey.
• 28:17
  I really just sort of find it
• 28:18
  fascinating and appreciate, you know, deeply appreciate it.
• 28:21
  And you know, folks are more Bennett is again the world's cutest humans.
• 28:26
  So if you want, you know, want to see, you know, you know, we
• 28:29
  we try to be open but keep our privacy on social media.
• 28:33
  Of course, on very, very busy.com.
• 28:35
  Check us out.
• 28:36
  You know, check us out on Etsy.
• 28:38
  We're still moving and grooving.
• 28:39
  They're still moving. Agreement on Amazon.
• 28:42
  Fascinating journey there.
• 28:43
  We'll link something on the, maybe we can link something.
• 28:46
  Yeah. Yeah. On this.
• 28:48
  Yeah. Is that cool? Yeah. Yeah that's okay.
• 28:50
  And if anybody who's listening is like, you know, I've,
• 28:53
  I've thought about surrogacy.
• 28:54
  I want to we're we're dreaming of it.
• 28:56
  So happy to have a conversation.
• 28:58
  And they could reach out to you through very, very, very busy. 100%.
• 29:00
  Nice. Perfect.
• 29:01
  We would super love it.
• 29:03
  That's awesome. Thank you so much. Oh my gosh. Thank you.
• 29:05
  Thanks so much for joining us. And we'll see you next time. See ya.
• 29:08
  Don't forget to subscribe.
• 29:10
  That's right I always forget. She always forgets by.