Latest / Skin Anarchy / Discover How Obagi Sets the Standard for Science-Backed Skincare

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Discover How Obagi Sets the Standard for Science-Backed Skincare · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is your home festival, and I'm really, really excited about brand VR Skinsteak.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of you have heard of them.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: They've been around for a long time, making amazing products.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know quite a few people, you know, in my peer group that have at least one or two products by the line.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the chief marketing officer of Obaji, Justin Giuseppe, right?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Giuseppe, that's great.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: You did a great job.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, welcome, Justin.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to chat with you and learn from you today.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thrilled to be here.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to get started if you could tell us a little bit about yourself, you know, and your background and what got you involved with Obaji and maybe get us started.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you know, I've been a beauty junkie, so to speak, forever.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've always been super hair, skin, cosmetics involved.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was like tinkering around in my grandmother's bathroom at six.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: So this is absolutely, you know, the category I love.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I love science-backed categories, and I've worked in both skin and hair color, which are chemistry-based.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's always been important to me.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I started my beauty career at an at a beauty giant we also all know, named L'Oreal.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I worked across several brands and divisions and countries.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: I also have worked in body care at Hinkle, which was very skin-focused and all about skin health, all the way from you know, antibacterial soaps into moisturizing body washes.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then I had the good fortune of meeting our founders of Waltoncast, who had recently acquired Obaji, Hin Sebti, and Michelle Brousset.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love her.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: I love her.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone does.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, for lack of any other way of saying it, when I met her, we had such incredible chemistry, work chemistry, of course.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so impressed by their mission and so impressed by their objectives of where they wanted to take the Obaji brand that I essentially signed on immediately.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I've had the good fortune of being here since July of 2023 and have seen we're, you know, every day working on how can we continue to transform this incredible brand that has some incredible fundamentals.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we just bring it forward for today's physicians, aestheticians, plastic surgeons, and consumers?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I mean, Obashi is so interesting to me because it's a brand that I think tells the tale of like where the skincare industry has progressed to over the years.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's been around a while, and I love to see brands that have been in the space long before the TikTokers of the world caught on to skincare.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what I mean?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like before that it became viral.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because honestly, skincare has been, you know, for me, it it was a new thing in my life in my adulthood.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't really a thing I did when I was younger, and I wish I had because, you know, there's so many benefits.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: But Obavji is a brand to me that stands out because of that, you know, because you guys have been around and you've been providing real options for such a long time.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to the innovation and the growing technology in the space, I mean, it must be very cool from your viewpoint to watch everything, you know, evolve and and kind of you know, uh incorporate it into what you guys are doing.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: So very fast.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Obaji was founded by a doctor, of course, as you know, Dr.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Obaji.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it was founded in product innovation, you know, and and in needing to answer real skin concerns and issues for doctors, help them make it easy so that they could easily prescribe solutions to their clients and to be extremely efficacious, you know, so to work quickly and to show results.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, before I joined Obaji, I'm going to admit that I purchased my skincare in, you know, outside retail.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you see a lot of promises from those brands, some of which are lovely, by the way, not disparaging them in any way.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I never felt you saw a ton of results, real results.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things we really hold ourselves to, which is which we're rooted in, is seeing real results end quickly.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how we were founded.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I love that, you know, when you say you're you're surpassing the trends and and you're sort of you've always been there in skincare before TikTok even knew was even invented, is important to us because it's to say, we're happy to tell people about us on TikTok.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: But what they need to know is that we're a brand that really works, really, really works, and we can prove it.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we've always been about that, and we continue to be about that.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And when we develop products, we hold ourselves to a really, really high standard of how we fast we can see results, how well we can see results, can we prove those results with clinicals?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and thinking about with doctors in mind, you know, how will they judge us on these results?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then then do we say to ourselves, should we launch this product or not?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that makes sense because honestly, I mean, from what my understanding is, and you know, please correct me if I'm wrong, is that I think when a brand's been around, you know, and has seen the in and out of the trends and then seen how this market is, yeah, it's evolving, but we always come back to the tried and the truths, right?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to ingredients, when it comes to like the results that we expect or consumers expect, it always boils down to I think some of the basics.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Obaji for me, when I look at the brand, I think of the essentials that you need in your skincare routine.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like everyone's loves focusing on that new ingredient or that new like that wave, you know.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people are like seven skin method, you know, 10-step method, whatever.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that's gonna come and go.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, you still need great hydrating products.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: You still need really great cleansers, really great moisturizers.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: And almost as I I love what you said earlier about how because you guys are doctor and you know, emd-founded, you have a baseline that is like an almost an adjunct to what we would get from our dermatologists.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: So if we go to a dermatologist and get, you know, antibiotics prescribed to us for acne, we then go towards, you know, skincare that's been around and tried and true to provide adjunct therapies to what we're experiencing.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where I find it to be really, really very fascinating.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's truly like in the cosmosceuticals realm where it's like working with the dermatology and the for pharma grade stuff that we're using, you know?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'd say two things about that.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, first is that it's how we source ideas, right?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we talk to our professional community, including our chief medical director, Dr.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Susan Obaji, who is a longtime, very well respected dermatologist in Pittsburgh at UPMC, about what they're seeing in practice, what needs they have, what are changes in, you know, people's skin or what they're asking for.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then we use those insights to develop products, right?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the first thing is that our insights are coming from, you know, offices, professional offices, whether that be derms or aestheticians or plastic surgeons, and what they're seeing and how we can help support, to your point, with the right products that that individuals can either have be used, you know, they can use in office or at home to support even, you know, any prescription products.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think the other piece of what you said is very important to us, which is what we have dubbed trust over trends.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I think you and I, you know, as lovers and followers of of beauty and skincare, you see a ton of trending ingredients all the time, you know, and and this is for sure true in social.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's for sure true with my, you know, what do they call them?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sephora tween, who's 12 years old.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's this is this is the case.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And an ingredient will get super popular in social.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not to say that we ignore that, yeah, but we are really stringent about the fact that we won't just use an ingredient because it is trending.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: We will only use an ingredient if we are sure that it's going to do something.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So there are plenty that we think are great and have used and formulated with that people talk quite a lot about.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then there are others that we'll never touch because we don't feel that they can be their performance can be proven in clinicals where we feel that they're fad, you know.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a kind of a cornerstone premise of how we even think about Obaji.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that at the end of the day, we're living in a time now where everybody wants to see the data, you know, it's all coming down to the I think for a long time the media industry was kind of run by this qualitative analysis, you know, done by editors and and consumers and and everybody like that.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: But now we've come into the realm of, you know, dermatologists are speaking out, you know, doctors such as myself are are wanting to know more, you know, and so this has really driven this data-driven, you know, data-driven approach to how as consumers are shopping for skincare.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I look at brands that have been around for a long time, I get excited because now they have the resources.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like Obashi, you guys have the resources to do your clinical trials.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: You have the resources to go and give us the data.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I at the end of the day, that to me as a consumer means a lot more than okay, yeah, you know, there might be a cute brand that comes out and I support them.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: I support entrepreneurs, but when it comes to skin, health is first.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's the bottom line.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Whether we want to admit that or not as consumers, at the end of the day, you might have a beautiful product that looks pretty on your skin when you put it on, you know.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's not giving you results, you're essentially messing with an organ at the end of the day.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to keep that in mind.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think consumers, I think, I mean, I want to believe that we've we're rounding that corner where we're saying, okay, enough of the fluff product, give us the data, you know what I mean?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us where the good stuff is, the results, you know, and so that's where you guys really stand out to me, you know.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think sticking to that forever and ever is the important and continuing to stick to that is what's so important.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we're not going to change that element of it.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the science matters for us.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, we we absolutely invest heavily in clinicals.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: It is a big part of our budget every year.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, we have, you know, people solely responsible for that, who this is their whole life's work, is, you know, helping us set up clinicals.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, what's important is also about not only that we do clinicals, but also what's involved in those clinicals.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, another important piece of our clinicals is testing on various skin types.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we really try to set up a diverse study whenever we're doing our clinicals to make sure not only are our products safe and efficacious on the various Fitzpatrick skin types, but also that they're beneficial too, right?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, the home country of Wobaji is here in the US, which is probably the most diverse country in the world, but we also run a global business, you know, with businesses in Asia and in the Middle East and in Europe.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone's skin is different.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to also be proving that our products are safe and beneficial to all skin types.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think also in addition to just the fundamentals of skincare, or some of the products that really stand out to me in your collection are, for example, like your brown brow serum is like, you know, renowned for being so good and efficacious.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, say those kind of products, I think people love using them.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: But when my my thing is with consumers, you have to go to brands that can actually formulate that stuff correctly because it's it's has the potential of touching mucus membranes.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a conversation that nobody wants to have because we're like, okay, well, it's a brow serum or it's an eyelash serum, it's you know, it must be safe, it's fine.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: But no, it's not.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: You have to have a lot of RD behind stuff like that.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so you do have those kind of products in your lineup, but the differentiating factor then becomes well, has this brand, you know, invested really in this product that is kind of you know blurring that line between like pharmaceutical grade and then OTC grade, right?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where I think Obaji is very unique in that way.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you guys have, like I said, you have the resources, you have the data, and you and your products work because of that, you know, because you you really test them.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, if you'd like if you need a another job, you know, you could certainly join the marketing team.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, honestly, I know I sound like I sound like your biggest fan, but I I really believe in what you guys are doing because hey, I I interview a lot of brands, and I mean, there's nothing I love all the brands I interview, but I think there's a lot to be said when you have years and years, you know, decades of experience under your belt, and there's just nothing that can replace that.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, with in the world, and you know this, you know, Justin, in the world we live in now, consumers are just like wildly looking for, like frantically looking for options, you know, that are therapeutic.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And what I hear time and time again through emails, through comments, whatever it might be, is Ecta, nothing's working.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like nothing's working.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what to do with my skin.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's never it never gets better.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's I always have the same lines, the same wrinkles, and I I don't know what to say back to these people, you know what I mean?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, it's people are using the same ingredients over and over again, and the innovation is just lacking.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's why I I am raving, you know what I mean?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think it's important to draw that attention to brands that have that experience.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, no, no, don't go over there, come back over here, you know.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's a lot of clinical data here.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I mean, you know, with all the yeah, yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Stay away from the shiny objects and and go with the facts, you know, which is absolutely our mission.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that you're you're dead on.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is how we approach everything.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I love to hear that you're so bought into it and you know, certainly happy you're a fan and that I could spend some time today.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, I would love to talk to you a little bit about your professional side of things because I know that you work with dermatologists and there's a lot of options here also for derms to consider.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a huge advocate for that personally.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that medicine is at this juncture now where we have to integrate, you know, with the OTC space and like provide real options for patients.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'd love for you to speak a little bit towards that professional side of the brand and like how you work with derms and professionals.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they're sort of our main obsession, if you will.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the reason I get up in the morning every day is to service professionals, whether that be dermatologists, you know, classic surgeons, other doctors, or estheticians, you know, which the med spa has also seen a phenomenal rise in this country.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: So they're they're the reason we get up in the morning to help them, you know, and in their practices because of all the things we've talked about.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: So working with we work with them in a lot of different ways.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, as I said, we work with them to garner insights to help develop products, of course, you know, so starting sort of at the beginning of the funnel, you know, what do they even need for us to provide them with?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then once we are we have a product, we'll work together with them on developing protocols.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, what, you know, what are the best practices on how you can use our products, perhaps together with, you know, some services in their practices, you know, which has only grown.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And how can our products support their services in practice?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: So a great example of this is we had launched a barrier repair moisturizer called Rebalance, which was developed specifically to combat irritation post-services in practice.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that might be you had some microneedling or a peel or something that just might irritate your skin.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now, because it repairs the barrier, it also keeps your skin healthy on a day-to-day basis.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you even have a sunburn, it's great.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: But but the point was that we were developing this practice this product with the idea in mind that it would support the activities that were happening in practice.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, we also have an incredible team of dedicated sales reps that service this arm of our business.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, they're also talking intensively, educating, working with, developing these practices, and also come back with more ideas than I can execute, you know, in any given year about how to help these practices and what we can do to sort of make all the business better and all boats to rise, so to speak.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's definitely our number one preoccupation.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's where we were born and where we continue to focus, you know.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So even in an omnichannel world, we do have dedicated products that we will sell only in professional practices, some of which are, but of course, you know, that's permissible in that in those offices.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, in in other channels, we won't sell things like that.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they're our focus, they're the reason we get up in the morning and we're constantly in contact with them to try and grow their businesses and figure out what they need to support their businesses better.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's really cool.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, it's interesting because right now, I mean, I know that post-procedure skincare is really on the up and up, you know, in terms of like just an example of how dermatology is really merging with this OTC kind of space, you know.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, what are your thoughts around that?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, from even from a marketing angle, I mean, do you think that there's a lot of value here, you know, for consumers to consider things like post-procedure skincare?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you think it's not really worth it?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: I know it is worth it.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I know it even pre-procedure.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, our number one franchise is newderm, which I'm sure you know a lot about because you seem to know a ton about us, but and newderm was conceived to do just that.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we have many plastics, for example, who will recommend to start uh their protocol of newderm before a facelift and then continue it after a facelift.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason for that is obviously if you're going to invest money in a procedure, you want to first have the canvas of skin be as good as it can be before you start.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then after, you don't want to neglect that.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've just invested time, money, resources in yourself in something that's, you know, making you feel great.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can't neglect, you know, keeping your skin in its best shape.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: So this is absolutely of paramount importance, and I know it to be true.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And some of our best partner doctors absolutely follow this type of protocol of before and after procedures.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's really cool.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, there's yeah, I've just been curious because there's not a lot of brands that I think that are doing post-procedure care, you know, so that's why I was asking because it it's fascinating to me.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think as for the medical side, it makes complete sense.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, logically the science adds up, but I think when I see the title post-procedure care, I think a lot of times you people want to fit into that category, but a lot more goes into it than just you know creating a cleanser or or something.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: It it's really about prep, like you said, you know, balancing the skin and making sure you have a canvas before you're going into something, you know.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even if you let's say you wanted a peel, yeah, you know, if if your skin barrier is in terrible shape before the peel, it's gonna be worse after, right?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's important that you sort of get your skin to a place before any procedure and then afterwards take care of it, you know, like a gentle baby.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's it's definitely a huge topic in the professional world.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, some of our providers are really enthusiastic about this topic, and it's definitely a focus for us on how we can provide solutions before and after procedures because it's it's an important part of making skin look great and our practices revenue.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think you have a lot of products like that.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, another one that I really love is like you have a product for the neck and decollete area.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's it's a roller at the top, like the the piece that's at the top for everyone listening, it's it rolls.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you can just roll it on your neck and it's so good.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love this product because I I use it a lot at night.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like when you wake up, you just feel like you've taken care of all parts of your you know normal TV here.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I really like this product a lot.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I I mean that just kind of proves like, you know, the innovation that's behind the brand is like there's a lot of really unique products, you know, in the line.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just about like the cleanser, the toner.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, those are really great, but like the fact that you guys have the capacity to have these a wide range, you know, that really fits into everyone's routine somehow.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's very fascinating.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, neckadeck that's also one of my favorites.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell you, I I gave it to a friend and she told me my my neck looks 29 again.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it's also because, you know, we still we especially now, we spend a lot of time looking at ourselves on a screen.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we're pretty focused on our faces.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, if you want to combat signs of aging, you also need to focus on your neck, right?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because it it's a very delicate skin and it will show aging, you know, pretty fast, and people tend to ignore it.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the birth of that product, which has a lot of incredible ingredients in it.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that roller isn't is to facilitate getting it on your skin easily, but it also does use the practice of massage, which does help also stimulate, you know, sort of production of good ingredients in your skin as well.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, there was a lot of thought put into that product and thinking about why you would even pay attention to your neck.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then fun fact, you know, some of my team use that product actually over their face and neck.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't tell you to do that, but some people on my team, because of course they're the ultimate experimenters and try everything, how we don't write the directions, but they do that as well.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, one day I'd be happy to introduce you to my full team, and I'm sure they'd tell you all of their little secrets about how they use and misuse our line.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always up for you know tips and tricks because obviously no bag can care.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: But that is also one of my favorites.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's great.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great product.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and honestly, here's the thing, you know, I'm I'm all for uh there's a lot of cool stuff on the market.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know that guasha became huge, you know, in the last two, three, five years, whatever it's been.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I love gua sha, but some of the things I see on social media where people are literally bruising their skin because they're trying to like gain the benefits of something as simple as like an actual massaging effect, you know, of your of your facial muscles or your neck or whatever, is a little extreme, guys.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm just gonna say that out loud.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: So a product like this, I think, fits a lot more simply into our routines than just going ham, you know, with the gua sha and just bruising yourself to death.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just seems a little extreme to me when I see that.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: I guess it's I guess it's personal preference, but for sure, you know, for those gua shaw lovers, maybe give this product a try, and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised about how well it works and you get the massage element.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and also it's it's a very, you know, I think the neck area, like there's a lot of talk around, you know, oh, your neck skin is a lot different than you know, your facial skin, and we have to take care of it, you know, they there's a lot of conversation around your body, you know what I mean, and like the different needs of the different skin types.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: So this formulation, I really like it because it's it's like a gel.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: So like when it sits on your skin, it's almost soothing, like it soothes your skin.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to describe it.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you wake up, it's just very soft, very like rejuvenated, hydrated, plumped, but it's not, I don't know.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: It it just makes sense to use it on your neck.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how else to really phrase that.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that format was done purposefully.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, it it definitely is meant to not only address wrinkles and sagging, but also brighten those areas, you know, because it's another thing I think, you know, your neck and declete get have probably gotten a lot of sun over time.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so this also helps brighten those areas from any sun damage that might be there.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's really cool.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: I want to actually ask you like it's kind of a general question because I'm very curious about it.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: I know that a lot of brands right now are kind of moving to the east, you know, for their innovation.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: They're kind of they're looking to the east and and there's a lot of things going on, I think, in Asia, especially, you know, with skincare innovation, with packaging innovation.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: How do you feel about that?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, from a marketing stance, has Obaji kind of consulted, you know, Eastern full, you know, just the Eastern world and how they're doing skincare because like you know how big it is over there.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you know I mean so I would say absolutely inspiration comes from all places.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can't ignore it.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we run a global business, you know, we have a pretty nice business in Southeast Asia and in China.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, obviously we're constantly in contact with those teams and you know, the innovation side of our business, the the individuals who support and create innovation visit those markets to understand them.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, yes, you know, we are inspired by it.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: We do, you know, work with doctors in those regions to also understand what's trending there.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and you're right, that it's not just formulas and ingredients, it's also packaging and how they consume it.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we're always thinking about how can is there an application here?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Can we apply it?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Should we apply it?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Should we not apply it?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, as I told you, we're a trust over trends, but some of it is, you know, sort of really compelling.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so we do work with different parties in Asia as well, like when it comes to packaging for sure, to see, you know, what are the newest, latest, and greatest.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: And also going into that, as I said, going into that market ourselves and seeing with our own two eyes.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: So absolutely it's a consideration, like all other things are a consideration.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Our whole market is the US, excuse me.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously it's it's important to us.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I would almost say all, you know, the US has a different point of view on skincare, which I think is very influenced by the fact that we're the home of Hollywood.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: But absolutely, you know, Asia comes into our consideration set as well.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, you know, we also run a business in the Middle East and in Western and Eastern Europe, and they have other skincare habits.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we're global citizens and we're constantly looking at what everyone is doing and how our doctors are doing things and thinking about how we integrate that into our new product pipeline.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: It makes sense.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, it makes especially with all the new ingredients coming out.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: How do you feel about that?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, over the years, I'm sure, you know, you guys have evolved, you know, obviously, but like with all these new ingredients that come out or that are being utilized, I mean, how does Obaji really go about changing a formula if you guys do?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, realizing that maybe another ingredient is a better fit for the results that, you know, a product is aimed for.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: How does how is that whole process work?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that that happens for sure in any business.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, we might identify that we want to make a change for various reasons.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we really try and push ourselves to be governed by, you know, when it comes to the regulatory environment by EU standards, because they tend to be more stringent.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, we might, so we might be the the reasons for changing a formula are are vast and varied, by the way.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: It could be we find new ingredients that we think are more efficacious, it could be regulation has changed, it could be because, you know, we've decided that we, you know, need new formats, new textures, what have you.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Or we need a new package.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Our package is not working properly, and you know, we we need to test it now in a new package.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that's pretty common.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, you know, there's a little bit of boring marketing in here, but because it is a process, and you know, we will kick it off with a brief and we will brief it to our formulators and our regulatory teams, and then they will go and develop prototypes, which we'll then test.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: And there's various ways we'll test those prototypes.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, obviously, when you're talking about an existing product and making formula changes, you want to make sure that you're not compromising the performance of the formula that people know and love today, right?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's why I asked you because I was like, you have great formulas, you know what I mean?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if that if something changes or a new ingredient comes out, you know, that must be difficult to really.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it means that sometimes that change is not fast because we might prototype it and then test it against the current and find that it isn't performing as well or it doesn't smell the same or something, you know, the texture is different.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so then we might go back and we will continue to refine the prototypes until they meet the standards.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And there's formal ways we do testing with either, you know, things like olfactory experts or consumer panels or professional panels.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then once we are satisfied that the prototype, you know, meets the standard and meets whatever change objective we had, then we'll start putting it under all the testing that is required to make sure that the, you know, the product is stable over time and so on, which are sort of industry standards that everyone does.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then we'll bring it to market.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: And depending on, you know, what the change was, how we talk about it will be different.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, it it's definitely very commonplace, especially with a brand that's, you know, 35 years old, that you may have to make some changes to formulas, but we do it, we take it really seriously when we do have to make a change to a formula because the performance is so important to us.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: And people have expectations from us, you know, this is not a new brand where they don't have an expectation.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: They have very high expectations of us.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to make sure that we deliver on those high expectations.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, that's the interesting part about it for me.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think it kind of goes back to what I originally like what we were discussing in the very beginning of our, you know, our chat was this idea that there's a lot of trends that are changing, you know, and and they're always changing and coming up, especially on TikTok.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think the other day I saw something about castor oil again.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, the person was like, castor oil fixes all of your problems, you know, and it's like that's all you need to take care of routine.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I there are a lot of people that are buying into that right now, you know what I mean?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot, and that's why I was like, you know, let me let me ask this question because I just don't believe, like, I like obviously I'm a scientist, so I believe in the power of science.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you guys have plenty of files, you have the data, you've tested your formulation, but there's so many consumers that hop on these bandwagons where they're like, no, like this one oil or this one ingredient, that's it.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna save my skin.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what when I see that, it makes me think of brands such as the baji because how do you keep up with that?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: When when trends are changing so quickly, and you're like, I mean, it must be interesting watching it from the brand side, like, okay, you know, yeah, can we let this pass or like yeah, and you know, I think it shows that we're all always searching for that, you know, silver bullet, so to speak, you know, that makes us not age and not have acne and and so on.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, again, and I think by the way, that's why it's so important that brands like Obagi are active on social, right?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Are active on TikTok, are active on Instagram, are active on Facebook, sharing our knowledge with people because this is where consumers are, you know, educating themselves.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is where people are even reading the news.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, it's a fact of life.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: So to fight it would be s would be silly, you know.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's our job to be on these platforms with our, you know, professional partners in some cases, creating content to educate specifically why our products work and why you need them, you know, and and why they're different than other remedies that people are talking about, you know, and it's it's and we work with several different kinds of professionals in social, but I think that's why it's important we're there even just to say the the trends are just that, but here's some trusted science that's been doing this, you know, for more than a minute, and we've got lots of, you know, backup data, let's say, to show you that it is gonna work.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I think social can be super powerful as well, though, because the before and after is an incredible tool that Obaji has always used and is an important, you know, sort of way of approaching content for us.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: We speak we speak by showing results.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I always say I would rather walk the walk than talk the talk.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: And Obaji is absolutely that.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: So let's show, you know, let's let's put it to the test.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Show me your skin before you use the product, and now show me your skin after you use the product, and you'll see the results will be phenomenal.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think that I can agree with you more about, you know, the necessity of brands that have been around and seeing how you know things work and really have invested in the science, how important it is for you guys to be on social media.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: It I mean, it really when I look at the social media landscape, I I see a lot of confusion and I see a lot of misinformation, as we all know.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's been around forever, but yeah, to cut through all of that, you're right.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just gotta, you gotta trust the facts.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's nothing else that we can do as consumers.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: We have to go with the sciences, I think.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, I worry about the generations like Gen Z and then also Gen Alpha, you know, is like really gonna be confused because we have we know, like I'm a millennial, so like I all I shop differently, you know what I mean?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I will go to your website and look at your clinical trials and I will look at things that you know, like data, like qualitative and quantitative.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I with these new generations, kids don't seem to understand that, you know, there's real science at play here and there's real medicine at play here, you know, and it's not just about the pretty pink bottle, you know, that's gonna your friends using it or whatever, that's it's gonna damage your skin if you just want friends.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there definitely has been a lot of backlash, I think, about brands sort of targeting super young consumers with strong actives.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and but that's by the way, why we are a professionally based brand, because we think whatever your age is, if you're having a skin problem, the best way to find its solution is to work with a professional who can look at you and touch your skin and feel it and understands that it is a living organ and understands how the chemistry is gonna work and recommend the right products for you and your routine, you know.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's up to compliance, right?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Then you need to comply, you need to be consistent to get to get your best skin.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: But that's that's why we so support this professional channel, because this is really the only way you're ever gonna get something that's bespoke to you.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it's really important for consumers consumers to know that this is available to them, you know.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's another thing is the accessibility point because at the end of the day, you know, if you don't have the options, like if you don't see that there are options, you're not gonna go for them.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like you're gonna follow your best friend on TikTok who knows nothing about skin health, you know.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think it's really important to kind of shine a light on, you know, you guys have 30 plus years behind you, you know.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot, it's a lot of science, it's a lot of data.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's a lot of people who've used it and been successful.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, a lot of results, exactly.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I really love it.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love the brand.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know I've raved a lot about you guys, and I don't mean to sound like I'm I'm marketing for you, I just really believe in what you're doing, and I'm a huge fan, you know, of of all the products I've tried personally.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've fallen in love with quite a few of them.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for anyone listening, if you guys are looking for just new options in your routine, if something's not working, if you want to like, you know, shift some things around, this is a really great brand to do that with.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I always try to advocate, you know what I mean?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: And all my listeners have heard me say it before like, follow the science, it will lead you down to where you need to be, you know.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: But genuinely, like I mean that, you know, it's like if you really want results, like you're not here for the trends, you're not here for like the BS, you know, just because it's a pretty package.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you want the results, then you should check out a brand like Obaji because this is tried, tested, true.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like you will get what you're paying for, is the bottom line, you know.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really, really encourage our listeners, you know, go for brands that have the science that have the data.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: And let me know.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Let me know if you've tried Obaji before.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: Let us chime in, tell us your results.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, Dustin, thank you so much.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: This has been really great.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's been my honor, and I I just really have had a great time today talking about a brand I love and feel passionate about.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: And likewise, yeah, I love I love the brand, and it was a great conversation.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: And for everyone else, I'll be back next time.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 38:09
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• 38:14
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• 38:57
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• 39:14
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