Latest / Career Pivot 123 LLC presents: Attend the Tale: Where Career Change Becomes the Best Plot Twist! / Attend the Tale, Episode 1: Cathlyn Stahl - Part 1
Transcript
- Darren Petronella: Every career has a story. Some are carefully planned, some take unexpected turns, and some blow up entirely, only to rebuild into something better than anyone imagined. This is Attend the Tale, the podcast where real people share the unfiltered story of their career pivots, the moments that changed everything, and the lessons that can only come from living through it. Listen closely. The tale is about to begin. I'm your host, Darren Petronella, career counselor, coach, Resume and LinkedIn strategist, university professor, and the founder of Career Pivot 123 LLC. For 20 years, I sat across from people at every stage of their careers, people who felt stuck, burnt out, overlooked, or simply ready for something more. And in every one of those conversations, there was a story, a real human story about who they were, who they wanted to become, and what it took to get there. That's why I created this podcast, because those stories deserve to be heard, not just by me. But by anyone out there who's standing at their own crossroads, wondering if a pivot is possible. Spoiler alert, it is. And today's guest is proof of that. My first guest for our very first episode is my colleague and friend, Cathlyn Stahl. Cathlyn started her career in sports psychology, then found her way into education, where she discovered a knack for learning and development, building training programs and curriculum that help people grow. That expertise carried into career coaching, where she's guided people from Olympic and Paralympic athletes to boot camp grads through life's biggest transitions. At the core of it all, she's a helper. She believes in working with clients holistically, treating them as a person first and a job seeker second. Today she's a customer success manager, and when she's not helping someone through their next big change, she's likely at her easel painting flowers with a cat or two cats nearby. Cathlyn thank you so much for being here. Cathlyn Stahl: Thank you. I appreciate the invite. I'm so excited to be here. Darren Petronella: All right. so you're my guinea pig, which is our first episode, so we're gonna see how this goes and thank you. All right, so Cathlyn Stahl: Can't wait. Darren Petronella: my first question is not a question that you might have anticipated, it's really a simple one though. Can you think back to when as young as you can remember, what was the first career idea that ever kind of came into your head? It could have been when you were in kindergarten, in middle school, or at any other point in in your early life. Cathlyn Stahl: Yes. when I was in elementary school, I had a strong desire to be a teacher. I I loved a lot of the teachers I had growing up that I got to work with and and who guided me through elementary school and obviously through middle school and high school. And there was a special passion for teaching when I was younger that you know, I was the kid that would come home from school and maybe like play pretend and I would set up all the the stuffed animals and you know, teach them and talk to them as if we were in class. I didn't always enjoy the grading aspect of it, so we would kinda leave that off to the side. But at least like getting in front of people, presenting and and teaching, that was something that was always on my mind as a kid and and wanting to be out there and just helping people learn. I always have a knack for learning. I've always had that. and so for me it's a little bit of how would I bring that in into my worldview after after elementary school. So I think I think I've managed to do that in the in recent years. Darren Petronella: I can only yeah, absolutely from what I know of you. So so the first so how old were you again when this when this kind of started? Cathlyn Stahl: I I would guess like somewhere in the seven to ten range if I had to Darren Petronella: Okay. Cathlyn Stahl: guess. I was pretty young that I like, I think I wanna be a teacher. I think this sounds great. We also had some Darren Petronella: Wow. Wow. And and so Cathlyn Stahl: career day folks that came in and kind of taught us about some different careers. but I Darren Petronella: nice. Cathlyn Stahl: for some reason always went towards the the teaching. Darren Petronella: that's great. That's great. so yeah, that di I I think that did carry itself forward in in some way, 'cause you had that helping mentality and and teaching, of course, and and all the L and D work that you've done and and coaching. I mean it's all a version of education, right? So that's great. So What did you think your career was gonna look like when you first started out? So we c maybe you wanna talk about like Kirkhology or a little bit, like what was like what you're sure like did you have a major before the major you settled on or was you were you kinda going like tell us that story and then how did it lead to your first career venture? Cathlyn Stahl: Yeah, that's a great question. so I initially started at my first university and I was an art therapist major. And I was like, this is awesome. I love art. I love the idea of bringing art and therapy together. personally I use a lot of art therapy in my own hobby and and life and just getting emotions out. and at the time I thought, wow, this is beautiful. I've always felt like psychology made a lot of sense to go in that direction. And I thought, wow, I have this passion for art. Why don't I just combine these two passions and see where I take it? And my very first year of s of college was amazing. I it was mostly art classes. I would just fell in love with that. And I quickly realized if I was going to be a registered art therapist, I'd have to be registered in the state that I was going to school in. And I wasn't confident that I wanted to stay in the state that I was going to school in. And so that was a big factor for me of like one, do I want to try to figure out what state I want to be in in my first year of college? I'm 18, and I'm trying to figure out where I want to put roots down for the rest of my life. When that's a hard decision at 18. And so I decided to change majors at that time. And I thought, you know what, maybe this isn't the right path for me right now. As I started going into it, I said, you know what, I I don't know if I want to do licensure in just one state, if I do multiple states. That's a difficult thought to have right now. And it's kind of making me have to make a decision at a young age that I'm not fully prepared to. I still want to explore a lot of these options. And so I changed majors and then I ended up transferring out of the school and stuck with an art major and a psychology major. So I just dual majored in both because the university I transferred to was able to to do both. They were like, this is actually very accessible for a dual career path or a dual degree path. so in that entire time I thought, okay. Art therapy maybe isn't the right direction right now for me, but it doesn't mean I can't still take those tips and tricks and all those pieces with me at some point in time. And Darren Petronella: Sure are. Absolutely. Cathlyn Stahl: then I got exposed in college. I mean, I was a college athlete, so I got exposed to sports psychology at some point from some of my teammates also going through that course. We didn't have a sports psychologist on staff by any means, but we at least were introduced to concepts around sports psychology. And then all of a sudden I was like, that's me, that's where I want to land. That's amazing. I love sports. Again, another passion for me in combining that with psychology. and so as I was going through my university years and learning more about that sports psych route, that's where I decided that this is something I'm gonna go get my master's in and I'm actually gonna take this direction further. And during my master's program, I heavily considered going into a PhD program and actually going in and getting my PhD in counseling or counseling adjacent in kinesiology or exercise science. And I learned very quickly going through the application process. I was waiting on one university to to get back to me and I was I was confident in that university just with the networking I had done, with the some of the work I had already done. And then as I was waiting for the decision, there was a something in me that said, I don't think this is the right path for me right now. And I ended up getting the rejection from the university and it was such a r sigh of relief for me. And I said, Yeah, I don't think I want to get a PhD. I think I'm going for a PhD for the wrong reasons. And I think what I wanna be able to do is still do sport psych just without the whole psych counseling side of things. And for so long I was pushed into that direction thinking I had to go that route. And so many of my teachers and so many of my colleagues were like, I you know what, you don't have to combine it. You don't have to be working with the person on their mental health side of things. You can just focus on the mental side of sport and how that relates to how they're doing. And I thought, wow, that feels way, way more realistic for me and way more interesting for me of what I wanted to do. Cause even in my grad school days, I had figured out I didn't really want to be a therapist, I didn't really want to be a counselor, but that was the natural progression from where a lot of us went. And I realized that that didn't make sense for me, even though that was the path that most people were taking or most people were considering taking, because it was one of the only paths that really existed. And so a whole long story goes into like I definitely I definitely changed majors, I definitely transferred schools. came out with a dual major, came out with a master's degree in sports psychology. And then in my first my first job right out of my master's, I was I mean, I struggled for a bit in that hot minute of a year, I struggled a little bit. I was getting part-time jobs, I was coaching, I was coaching a high school team, and the high school coach was like, We really love the the idea that you have of sport psych. Can we bring this to our team? And I said, Yeah. Said, What do you want me to do with You know. what the options are limitless. And so I started out with five minutes of practice and that was once a week. And then we got up to 15 minutes of practice once a week, sometimes twice a week. But they they saw the value of that going through. And then I started to work in the world of sport. And that's where I started working with professional athletes. more so in under the USA swimming world. And then I transferred over to the the US anti-doping agency. And all of those roles were education, building at the same time of building sport. So the beautiful thing for me was I didn't realize that I had been bypassing the therapist to education and like therapist counselor route in order to still get back to the teaching route, which it's funny I didn't think of it at the time, but looking back on it, it's so clear now that that's part probably why I wasn't as excited about going the full counselor route right out of university. Darren Petronella: Right. Right. But you realize, like you said, over time and and with these experiences that it was kind of leading you back into teaching or something instructive, right? Instructional. Cathlyn Stahl: Yes, yeah. Darren Petronella: So can we I'm sorry, so I I maybe I missed this part. What what was the point in your was it undergrad that you said that you would that that either you you didn't get into the master's program or the PhD program? Or what what what happened right before that? Some some other rejection? Cathlyn Stahl: Yeah, so it was right in my master's program. So I was I was actually going through my thesis at the time and Darren Petronella: Okay. Cathlyn Stahl: had proposed my thesis, was going into data collection and was, you know, focusing on on that piece. And data collection was really difficult for me, just with this the study I was working with. was specifically looking at burnout in high school athletes, which is a population that is not very studied in the research, which is why I went for it. And then it was just difficult to find candidates that were qualified for the study at the end of the day. and as I was going through that process, it was right around the time I had proposed my my thesis that I was already applying to PhD programs, expecting that all of my coursework was already done. I was just waiting on the thesis to be completed at that point in time. And so while I was waiting for for the next parts of my thesis to come through, I was applying to the universities and it I did a couple of site visits and one site visit, I was like, this is not for me. I did another site visit. I said, I could make Darren Petronella: Okay. Cathlyn Stahl: this work, but it doesn't seem like it's right for me. I'm trying to fit myself into that box. And I could tell in the moments that I was trying to fit myself in that box. and I came back from it and I sat with that for a while and thought, as much as I want this, I think I want it for the wrong reasons. And I don't think this is really what I want. I think this is something that people are expecting of me. And that's different from what I actually want of my own self and my own career at the end of the day. And that's where I sat with it and I said, I don't think I want this anymore. And I contemplated withdrawing my application. And I had some colleagues and friends that said, Nope, just wait, just wait, because you can make the decision later on, but you know, don't withdraw the application at this moment. Just wait, see what the decision is and then kind of move forward from there. but very much it was an intent that I was already thinking of withdrawing my application for the PhD programs I had applied to and had already I I can't remember, I had only applied to a a few at most. and they're very intentional programs that I applied to. So once I decided I was like this isn't for me. I happily got that decline and that, hey, sorry, maybe next time, maybe next year. And I was like, whew, that feels better. Okay, good. We'll just move forward with the thesis at this point and and see what's going on there. Darren Petronella: Hm. You know what I like about what you said and thank you for sharing all that is that is it really it really speaks to some major responses and and also like obviously benchmarks, but like the idea that like you you were in tune with how you were feeling about this and you were and you were not like pushing yourself to stay with something just because you thought I should do this initially. You know, it wasn't like, okay This was my thinking. I have to carry I have to carry all this through whether I like it or not or whatever. There were signs maybe, but like you were like you were very in tune to that and and and I know that that's true of you as a person in general. you know, you're Cathlyn Stahl: Yeah. Darren Petronella: very you're very good at like, you know, really paying attention to what you what you're feeling and what you're thinking and you're trusting your gut, you know, so those things are coming out and and this is like, you know And I know you're a young person still. So like this is like not like centuries ago, but like it it was happening in your early I mean while you're during during your education, during your higher ed. And so that's very Cathlyn Stahl: Yeah. Early twenties. Yeah. Darren Petronella: Yeah. I so I that the the fact that you were paying attention to yourself and then pivoting, even micro pivoting, you know, i in that way toward a different program, that's a big deal because as I as I can relate to and I'll tell a short ver version of my story in a second, is that when you don't do those things, first of all you can then find yourself in a deeper hole, right? And secondly, you know, you start people to get really angry. You're like, well, why isn't this working? I'm doing all these things. It's like, you know, I'm doubling down, I'm doubling down. I'm what am I not doing? Am I not am I not talented enough or skilled enough or smart enough to do this? And you know, so and and we start and Not you, but like s a lot of people we have it we get in our head about all this stuff, is what I'm saying. So did you have that? Were you were kind of were you in any way like cr Cathlyn Stahl: Absolutely. yeah. Darren Petronella: yeah. Okay. Cathlyn Stahl: my gosh. I mean I wanted to change universities within the first probably like six months within my first semester at at school. I mean I was ready to change schools at that point. I'd already identified after my first semester that I was changing out of art therapy and that was very clear for me. and I was ready to transfer and You know, I I had pressure from my parents to to go to that university. and I had said this is not what I wanted at the end of the day, and this is not the career path that I want. And I was feeling at 18 pressured to to stay with that major just because it was a program I had gotten into and a school I had gotten into and scholarship money and things like that. And I said, This just doesn't make sense though for me, and I don't want to keep pushing down this road to make other people happy. when I'm the one that has to be with this for the rest of my life. I'm gonna be with this degree path. I'm gonna be in this career path. And does that really make sense? so from from I would say an early age of I mean I say early as as far as like 17, 18, I was very, very clear on this doesn't work for me and I can clearly tell that this is pe other people's wants for me, but that's no one's asking me what I want at the end of the day. And so I finally Darren Petronella: Exactly. Cathlyn Stahl: took that into my own hands in in college and said, okay, what do I want for myself? And that's where even in my master's, I got into one master's program, and that was the master's program that was the best program for me at the end of the day. And the reason for that was I fully believed that I mean I applied to probably eight programs, and I mean I know how competitive those programs are, especially in the sport psych world. and I didn't have a heavy research background. so I was going for most applied programs in sports psychology instead of research institutions. So I also thought I know I don't want to do the research. I can do research. I've very experienced in the research side of things from psychology in my degree. And it's just I knew that that wasn't something I wanted to be in a lab all day long doing those kinds of things. So I for me it felt like I could get taste profiles of all these different things and all these different pieces of of what a career in this world could look like. And I could easily say at that time, this is something I do want, this is something I don't want. And that's when I had identified, like I loved working with people as they were going through the study. I wasn't as excited about doing the data collection itself or doing the data crunching and analysis and then writing up the conclusions. Darren Petronella: Right. Cathlyn Stahl: And I mean, if you know scientific writing, it's a whole other beast of writing. So there's also that. And so Darren Petronella: Yeah. Cathlyn Stahl: I learned very, very well that yes, I can do research. I'm I'm adept at research, but it's not something I'm excited about. And so do Darren Petronella: Right. Cathlyn Stahl: I want to do something because I'm good at it or do I want to do something that I'm excited about at the end of the day and learn the skills that excite you, even if you don't know those skills yet. So there were a lot Darren Petronella: Yeah. Cathlyn Stahl: of learning moments of just trial and error of figuring out what I like and what I don't like, which is funny because every time I work with clients now, I tell a lot of the things we start with is what don't you like? Great, we're gonna add that to Darren Petronella: Likewise. Cathlyn Stahl: a list and not come back to it because we don't need to. You already know what you don't like. So let's Exactly. Darren Petronella: We don't need to talk right. Let's let's get it on the get it off the table right now. Right. Cathlyn Stahl: We'll focus on the things that you are interested in instead. And how can we kind of find either careers that match with that skill set or find other ways to bring in that skill set into a different career path, let's say. so for me that that's just something I think I've always identified through pattern recognition as well. And then just identified in myself of knowing this is something I specifically want versus this is something that somebody wants for me. And if you can kind of know those things and be able to delineate those things, I think that's where it becomes a little bit easier. But then it it also comes into trusting yourself, like you had mentioned, and you know, trusting your gut and trusting in your intuition. Darren Petronella: Right, right. Absolutely. Thank you. you really touched on some really great things that, you know, we we do as career coaches and counselors with when we talk to clients, we have to re make sure that they can understand the difference between being good at something and liking something. And it's not always intertwined, you know, and Cathlyn Stahl: Yes. Correct. Darren Petronella: I was in the same situation when I when I was coming out of high school I really didn't know anything about colleges or anything like that. My parents couldn't help me because they really didn't do that. You know, my me, my sister, my brother, we were all first generation college students. And I was I I was a good student in high school, but I I went to my guidance counselor who wasn't even trained as a guidance counselor too, and he was like a gym teacher essentially. And like he was like Cathlyn Stahl: Yeah. Darren Petronella: go to big he's like, go to Binghamton, it's a great school. It's it's you know, and I'm like, okay. So I applied to that and I but I also applied to a bunch of Private schools that I wanted to go to, that I was getting scholarships for, whatever. Turns out my parents didn't disclose to me at the time that they didn't have any money to pay for any part of college. So I had to then deal with student loans. And so I had to end up Cathlyn Stahl: no. Yeah. Darren Petronella: going to a SUNY. which was, I mean, I chose Binghamton out of a few choices. but and and actually I liked Binghamton and it was a good experience to be there. I didn't have to change because they had a it's a liberal arts school, so they had a lot of choices for, but I was in their business program originally. because everyb 'cause I was good at math at that time. and and I thought because I'm good at math I probably will like it, right? I mean and it's like, yeah, maybe, you know, but I but I kinda went on that premise that if I'm good at it, that I'm probably gonna like it or I should like it or I do like it. And really none of those things were true. But I went for it anyway. In my first semester though, I crashed and burned. I was fifth in my class in high school and yet I was getting Cs and and math classes like in my first semester. Like it was really a a rough time. And it was also like that that acclimation to college, you know, being away from home, you know, Cathlyn Stahl: Yes. Darren Petronella: that kind of stuff. But but yeah, I mean, and but when I and that it took me like a year. And I didn't even have a career counselor because we we didn't we were never really told about career counselors that much that that back then. And I didn't Cathlyn Stahl: Right. Darren Petronella: know what they were. I didn't know where they were. I never ever went there until like my very last semester when I wanted my references or something or my transcript. Cathlyn Stahl: Yeah. That's when most people utilize it. For their resume for references. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Darren Petronella: that's what most people do, right? But but now of course career services are promoted everywhere and it's much more, you know, in your face. But but yeah, I remember really I mean I went from business and because I have a performing arts background, I went to a th as a theater major and then a music major and then and then I eventually met kinda kinda landed on psychology 'cause I was taking a psych course that first semester. But I I it it took me a long time to to even figure out what that was gonna look like. Okay, I like psych, so I'll I'll major in psych and everybody's well, there's a lot things you could do with that. So, you know, whatever. So I wasn't really like thinking it through. And it that led to other things that I won't go into now, but like I I ended up changing my mind quite a bit here and there. Cathlyn Stahl: Yeah. Darren Petronella: But but that's what happens. But you seem to have really been in tune to, you know, to what you teasing out again what you liked and what you were good at and that, you know, and you And trusting yourself really in terms of what you were able to then just decide to pursue. And like you said, sometimes things happen too, like if you didn't get into a program or some some things just happen, you know, sometimes it steers you in that way too. thank you for sharing that story. I think it's a really really informative. was there a moment early on in your so let's say now you're you're doing your your early career work. maybe you can summarize that again for us. And w w at what point did you feel that maybe that you either were completely in your element, but maybe then it shifted to maybe you were also a little lost and maybe you needed to make a change from that. Cathlyn Stahl: Yes, great question. So I mean when I came out of university, my my master's program in Ithaca, beautiful program, set us up for a lot of success. The challenge was that no one wanted to hire us. And so we were a bunch of kids that were, you know, fresh off the boat with our master's degree and saying, hey, let's go, we're ready to do sports psych with your teams. And we had no credibility behind us. teams were like, that's great. We want a licensed psychologist so that they can do everything. know they can be the psychologist for these individuals and work on the mental side of sport. and so so many doors were closed in our faces because of that. And so I I struggled. That first year after I graduated my master's program, I struggled a little bit, which was also the year that we moved to out of state to Colorado. So it was a big life changes in a lot of different ways. and I fell into the world of national governing bodies. And that was amazing for me. So when I started with USA swimming, I started as an intern. And you know, I was I was done with the work that they had given me in like three weeks. And I was like, what I'm here for three months. What else can I do? I'm like, I've already done Darren Petronella: Hey, right. Cathlyn Stahl: all these things. They're like, we didn't expect you to finish this this soon. I'm like, I I don't know what else do you want me to do, but I'm here for however much longer. Let's go. And so because of that, I was able to work my way into some other tasks and some other pieces of the of the the national team that I was supporting. And so at one point one of one of our directors came over to me and she was like, I need your help with something. Can you like spare the time? I said, Absolutely. And it really started talking about career coaching with sport. And it was such a light career coaching conversation. It was more just like, hey, we have these athletes that are professional athletes. And in USA swimming, the pipeline starts at such a young age. And so for for every single sport, Olympic or Paralympic, the t the pipeline is very different. And so obviously the younger the pipeline is, the more you're likely to go pro at a at a younger age. So similarly with tennis. And so in that world, a lot of our swimmers were pro pro by the age of teens, if not in college. They were already competing at a professional level.