Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Dorothea Puente - The Death House Landlady

Transcript

Dorothea Puente - The Death House Landlady · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: She was known as a quiet, elderly landlady in Sacramento,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: someone who took in societies most vulnerable to help care
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: for them, people with nowhere else to go. But behind
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: that facade was a monster. She took their money, controlled
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: their routines, and in many cases, facilitated the last days
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: of their lives. She continued to get away with it
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: all for a very long time, until eventually, one missing
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: person's report led police to her home in November of
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight, and when they showed up, they uncovered
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: multiple bodies buried in her yard, exposing a pattern that
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: had gone unnoticed for years. What followed was an investigation
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: that revealed not a single crime, but a system that
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: was built on trust, control, and disposal. This is the
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: story of Dorothea Puente, the Death House land Lady.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcast.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: The following material in more matual audience listener discretion is God.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: I love that sound, Do I do? I say that
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: every time? I'm pretty sure it's been a while. Actually,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: it's been a few episodes for sure, to say the least.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: But uh, I'm happy to crack when open today.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Cheers, Happy Friday.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Cheers and happy Friday. Oh it's going to be a
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: good day, going to be a fantastic day. Hope everyone's
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: weekend is amazing. Mine's going to start off great.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I'm going golfing, so yeah, our golf courses are open
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: up here finally. Yeah, that's a big deal.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: It is. Although I know a lot of people who
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: are like, you know, in Florida or something like that,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: or they're just like, oh, our golf courses are always open. Yeah,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: well that sucks. I have nothing to say. I was
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: gonna say that sucks, but I realize that sucks for me,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: not you.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: For you.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's about it.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: But also I don't know. I guess when something's closed
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: for so long, right and then it opens, it kind
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: of makes it more exciting. It does, and it's something
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: to look forward to rather than it just always being
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: readily available to you.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Definitely, And something else you can look forward to is
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: not Patreon, because I'm not going to be talking about
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: that today. I mean you could, but I'm not going
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: to do the little thing that I was.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I was like, dude, it's a Friday.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: I know, I was just messing with you.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I was so confused.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Oh I'm glad it worked.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it confused me, like you're on the wrong day
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: of the week, buddy.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, since we are on the topic of Patreon, though,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: I should say this one thing. Today's case was requested
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: by one of our patron members.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Okay. I was wondering that because I it was in
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: the little request chat right, yeah, okay, because I saw.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: This, So shout out to Cassie Wiblin who requested this case.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Cool.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard of this case before, but it hasn't
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: been on my radar for quite some time. And as
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: soon as I saw it in that request chat, I
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, I should do that one. So here
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: we are.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I sent Ben a whole bunch of ideas
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: and he chose yours over mine. So congrats to you.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but the problem is with your ideas, it's like
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: you text them to me or messagers.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: I know, I need to organize them a bit better.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Which is on my list.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets lost in our message back and forth
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: all the time. It's easy for Patreon, which is really nice.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: We have that dedicated chat awesome. Yeah, it's like there's
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: barely any chatting that happens in this feed. It's just
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: filled with case requests. So if I need something or
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: if it's just time to do a Patreon case, I
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: can just go in there and I'm good.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: And it's like a lot of bangers too. Oh so,
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of good recommendations, like they know they're shit.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, our patrons are amazing. So shout out to
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: you guys, not just Cassie, mean shout out to Cassie,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: but also shout out to all of our patrons. You
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: guys rock. But I think with that being said, are
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: you ready for this case?
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: I think so. It sounds very intriguing.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Well let me tell you all about it, shall I?
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Dorothea Helen Gray was born on January ninth, nineteen twenty nine,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: in Redlands, California, and right from the beginning of her
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: life it was rather unstable. Her father died of tuberculosis
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: when she was just still a child at around eight
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: years old. Then not long after that, her mother, who
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: struggled with alcoholism and had a long history of abusing
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: her children, died in a motorcycle accident.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: Dang.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: What followed wasn't a single home or very much of
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: a stable upbringing. She and her siblings were separated and
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: moved throughout foster care, relatives, homes, and different institutions. There
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: wasn't any consistent structure, and by most accounts, there was
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: neglect and abuse during those years as well. By the
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: time she was a teenager, she was already used to instability.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: At just sixteen years old, she left to go out
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: on her own, and that same year, in nineteen forty five,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: she married her husband, her first husband, I should say
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Fred McFall. The marriage didn't last long, There were about
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: three years, and during which time she had some children
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: with him, although she didn't raise them. One was sent
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: to live with relatives and another was put up for adoption.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: But after the marriage ended, she drifted. Over the next
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: couple decades, she would marry multiple times. In nineteen fifty two,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: she married a man named Axel Johansson in San Francisco.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: That relationship was very volatile and was marked by arguments
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: over her drinking and her gambling addictions. At one point,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: after being caught engaging in sex work, she was sent
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: to a psychiatric facilit That marriage eventually ended, as well.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Two more marriages followed in quick succession, one to a
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: man named Roberto Puente in nineteen sixty eight and another
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: to Pedro Montavo shortly after, but neither lasted very long.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: One ended in just over a year and the other
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: in about a week.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, Well, she really didn't have trouble finding husbands.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: But I guess just keeping them.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Keeping them, keeping their relationship. Driving wasn't her jam exactly.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Now. Alongside that, her criminal behavior had already started to
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: take shape. Now, her early offenses weren't violent spased, though
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: they were financial. She bounced checks, forged signatures, and committed
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: small scale fraud, and soon she was jailed for writing
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: those bad checks. But even when she was placed on probation,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: she didn't follow the conditions. She left town instead of
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: staying to complete it. Through the nineteen fifties, sixties, and
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: into the seventies, this became a very consistent pattern with her.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: She moved, changed names, entered new relationships, and red repeatedly
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: found herself in different situations where she was either scamming
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: or exploiting someone financially. Now, by the time she reached
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: her forties in the early nineteen seventies, Dorothea had found
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: a setup that worked great for her. She had opened
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: a boarding house in Sacramento, catering to elderly tenants and
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: people who were struggling. It was individuals dealing with mental
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: illnesses or alcoholism and financial instability. It was a setup
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: where it looked like she was helping these people. Social
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: workers would even refer people to her, and she developed
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: a reputation as someone willing to take in difficult cases,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: which were where people didn't have many other options. But
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: inside that setup, the same pattern from earlier in her
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: life was still there, just scaled up. At this point.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Intead of bouncing checks or running small scams, she now
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: had direct access to these vulnerable individuals' finances. So tenants
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: living under her roof often relied on government assistance, things
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: like Social Security checks or disability payments and pensions. Dorothea
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: inserted herself into that process and would help them quote
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: manage their money, and that meant access to their mail,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: their checks, and their accounts.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Dang, that's dirty.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: A it is, And so from there that exploitation it
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: became much more systemic. She actually forged their signatures, she
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: intercepted different payments, and she took far more than she
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: actually gave back to them. Her tenants might receive small
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: amounts of cash from their income which was just enough
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: to get by, while she kept the majority of it,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: claiming it was for rent or food or other general expenses,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: even though what the amount she was taking far exceeded
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: was they should technically be paying.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: And so she would make herself seem like she was
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: a good person yet helping people, but really she was
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: making their life much harder.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, that is really really quite evil.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: It's filthy. Now, at some point along the way it
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: crossed from theft into something a lot more controlled. There
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: were reports that she would drug people, sedate them, disorient them,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: and then take what she wanted from them, And at
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: least one case made that situation very clear. It was
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy eight when she was arrested for forging
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: her tenants signatures on benefit checks. She was subsequently convicted
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: and placed on probation with specific conditions. She was not
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: supposed to run a boardinghouse and she was not supposed
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: to handle other people's government checks. Now, those conditions, unfortunately
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: didn't change her behavior. They just forced her to adjust
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: a little bit on how she operated.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Well, and that seems very lenient, really doesn't it.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: It is rather lenient. But here's the thing. It didn't
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: do much for her even if it was like a
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: strong strong what's the word I'm looking A strong condition,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: I guess is what I'm trying to say. Even if
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: it was, say, a very strong condition, I don't think
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: she would have cared. And in this case, it just
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: forced her to. Instead of running a boarding house openly,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: she shifted into working as a caregiver. So it was
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: a technicality that she still did the same thing.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: So no matter what, she's gonna find a work around exactly.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: So instead of people just openly staying with her, now
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh, stay with me and I'll take care
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: of you, it's technically different. And it gave her the
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: same access to these different clients and now elderly clients specifically,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: and different people who trusted her, but with less oversight.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Oh that seems terrible, like even worse.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's taking full advantage.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: Uh huh.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Now, her method, even though she changed technically what she
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: was doing, her method stayed the same. She built the
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: trust with these individuals, gained control, and then exploited it.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: The early nineteen eighties, the pattern was very well established,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: and in nineteen eighty two that's when it would intersect
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: with something very dark. It was in April of nineteen
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: eighty two when a woman named Ruth Monro moved into
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Dorothea's home. Now Ruth was sixty one years old, and
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: she wasn't a stranger or anything. She was actually someone
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: that Dorothea knew, a friend, and at one point even
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: a business associate as well. Dorothea's place was exactly the
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: kind of environment Ruth would have trusted. But not long
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: after arriving, that's when things started to change. Ruth soon
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: began to feel sick, but nothing pointed clearly to a
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: specific illness, just a steady decline. She was weak, disoriented,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: not herself, and there were reports that she had even
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: been beginning to drink, which was not typical behavior for her,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: as she didn't drink. Her son even remembers seeing her
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: with a drink in her hand during one visit, and
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: he asked her directly about it, and she said Dorothea
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: had apparently given her the drink to help calm her nerves.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Wow drinks or not, her condition got worse quickly. Her
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: son came to see her again one day and she
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: couldn't speak, she couldn't respond. She was conscious and looking
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: at her son, and he spoke to her, trying to
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: get her some kind of reaction out of his mother,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: right like, trying to speak to her and see if
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: she could speak back. And at one moment when he
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: mentioned that Dorothea was going to continue to take good
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: care of her, Ruth didn't say anything. She couldn't but
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: a tear ran down her face in that moment.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Oh no, because she knew.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: And by the next day she was dead.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: And yeah, there was nothing she could do.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: The official cause was listed as an overdose codine and
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Taylano investigators at the time didn't treat it as suspicious,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: and when Dorothea was questioned about it, she gave him
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: a simple explanation. She said, Ruth was depressed, her husband
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: was seriously ill, and she had been struggling emotionally, and
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: from there her death was ruled a suicide and the
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: case was closed. A suicide, a suicide via overdose.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Huh Okay, that's hard to understand because if her son
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: sees her the day before and she can't even speak right, like,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: is she going to be able to go about trying
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: to overdose herself like that.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know, can she even does she even have
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: the strength and mobility?
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So there was some red flags around it, but
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: as far as authorities, well they just said it was
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: a suicide, ruled it that and not much more. They
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: took Dorothea's word right, Yeah, she was, after all the caregiver.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah she. I mean, why wouldn't you, I guess.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, theoretically you should be able to trust those people. Now.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: A few weeks after Ruth's death, a second incident forced
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: authorities to look a little more closely at Dorothea, but
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: not in connection to Ruth. Instead, it came from a
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: man who survived. See. Malcolm Mackenzie was another one of
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: her tenants. He was in his seventies, and he'd come
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: in contact with Dorothea under circumstances similar to others that
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: she had dealt with. He was older, financially vulnerable, and
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: in a position where he relied on people around him.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: A few weeks after Ruth's death, a second incident forced
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: authorities to look much more closely at Dorothea, but it
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: wasn't in connection with Ruth. Instead, it came from a
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: man who actually survived, Malcolm Mackenzie. He was in his
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: seventies and he had come into contact with Dorothea under
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: circumstances similar to others others that she had dealt with.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: He was older, financially vulnerable, and in a position where
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: he relied on the people around him. Now, according to
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: his account, while staying under her care, Dorothea gave him
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: something to drink, something that left him physically impaired. He
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: described becoming disoriented and unable to fully control his movements.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: It left him in a state that made him very
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: easy to manipulate, and while he was in that condition,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: his money and personal property were taken. However, unlike Ruth,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Malcolm lived through the incident and was able to report
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: it directly to authorities. Now, his statement provided a clear
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: description of intent and method, which was a very deliberate
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: act administering a substance to incapacitate someone and then following
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: it up by theft. As very specific. Investigators moved forward
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: with that account, and in August of nineteen eighty two,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Dorothea was arrested and charged. The charges included theft and
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: administering stupefying drugs to commit that theft. As a result,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: she was convicted and sentenced to five years in prison,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: though she would not serve the full term. With credit
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: for time served and good behavior, she was released after
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: approximately only three years. Of course, And that's the story
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: of Dorthe No, I'm just.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Kidding, like, what the heck, Well, honestly, it should be.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: It's that should be the story that should be right
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: like this, she got caught, She's gotten caught twice. Really, yeah,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: and it should be just done. But it's frickin'not obviously.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: But that's the thing with this case is you can
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: look back on everything and it's consistent, pushing through, finding
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: the same pattern, finding a new way to overcome different obstacles.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: It's just going the same thing no matter what obstacle
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: is in her way. Yeah, she would just serve jail
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: time for like three years, doesn't matter. She gets out
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: and she's gonna get right back to it. Which is
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: scary that there's people who are that persistent in committing
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: these acts out there.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: In the world, Like they get caught, get in trouble,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: but it just doesn't matter to them. They'll serve their time.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: But whatever, like, I'm just back to it after.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: These are the kind of people that are really bad
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: for the argument of rehabilitation.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Now, at the time, the case was tree as a
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: very serious financial crime, not part of a larger pattern,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: and there was no connection made to Ruth Monroe's death
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: though either, which still remained classified as a suicide. So
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: at this point they're not looking at patterns. Everything's being
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: treated as an individual case.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Dorothea was released from prison in nineteen eighty five, and
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: the conditions of her parole stated she was not supposed
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: to operate a boarding house, she was not supposed to
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: work with elderly or dependent individuals, and she was not
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: supposed to handle other people's government benefit checks, which is
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: essentially the same as what it was last time. However,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: once again it didn't stop her, and within a short
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: period of time she was back in a position that
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: violated all three of those conditions. While she was still incarcerated.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: In fact, Dorothea had even begun corresponding with a man
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: named Everson Gilmouth. He was seventy seven years old living
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: on a pension, and the two developed a relationship through letters.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: By the time she was released that relationship had to
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: the point where Everson was waiting for her outside the prison.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: He literally picked her up when she got out.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: How the hell did they meet? Sorry, did I miss that?
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not too sure on how they met, but they
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: were corresponding through writing letters and stuff like that, so
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming he would have wrote her to start.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: With yeah, which it's always just blows my mind actually,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: how people can like form relationships with someone that's in
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: prison and stuff.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's questionable at best. And I don't know
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: how his relationship with her started, but one way or
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: another through their letters, their relationship progressed. And here he
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: is literally picking her up when she got out of jail,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: and of course right away she's right back to her
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: old ways because the two opened a joint bank account
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: almost immediately.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Oh so here he probably thought he was, you know,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: in this loving relationship, and it's still she's oh my gosh,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: she's serving time for something and she's still just doing it.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Yes, oh okay, that she was.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Planning to do it while behind bars, serving time for
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: that exactly, and.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Still gets out early for good behavior. My goodness.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Now here's the thing. Though, not long after Everson disappeared.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: There wasn't an immediate report or anything either. He was older,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: living somewhat independently, and not under close supervision by any
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: agency that would be tracking his movements, so there was
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: nothing that would have triggered concern right away. Inside Dorothea's life. However,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: his absence didn't slow anything down. She continued to access
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: his money, and more than that, she actively maintained the
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: appearance that he was still alive. She wrote letters to
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: his family and acquaintances, even signing his name to those documents.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: The tone and contents were crafted to reassure people that
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: he was fine. He was traveling or otherwise occupied, you know,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: just giving reason for lack of response or calls or communication.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: It was meant to prevent anyone from asking too many
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: quess uestions or attempting to locate them now. When Dorothea
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: returned to her home on fourteen twenty six f Street
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: in Sacramento, the house itself was a modest aging Victoria home.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Nothing about it stood out in a way that would
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: draw any sort of attention. It sat in a residential
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: neighborhood close enough to services that made sense as the
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: place for people trying to get back on their feet
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: would need. Inside it was very cluttered, but it was
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: organized ish. There were lace doilies, framed photos, small decorative
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: touches that gave the appearance of a lived in, cared
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: for home. But from the outside it looked like exactly
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: what it was presented as, a boarding house run by
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: an older woman who cooked meals and offered stability for
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: people who might not have other options. So she was
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: literally painting this picture on her home.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: As well, she's doing something she's not supposed to be
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: doing though, correct, she's not allowed to be doing this.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: But she's about to do it again.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Technically she's not doing it. Technically she's not doing it yet,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: but she's about to again.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Now. Around this time, Dorothea hired a handyman named Ishmael Florence.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: He was coming over to her house to do some work.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: The initial job was installing some wood pandeling, and when
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: that was finished, she asked him to build something rather specific,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: a wooden box that was roughly six feet long, about
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: three feet wide, and deep enough to hold a body.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: She took coffin. She told him it was for storage
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: books and other items. But yeah, it's essentially a coffin,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: and a few days later it was completed, and then
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: she asked him to help move it. Now he had
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: built it and given it to her, And it was
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: a few days after he'd given it to her that
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: she asked for help moving it once again, and by
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: the time Ishmael returned to help, the lid in the
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: box had already been secured and nailed shut. Dorothia asked
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: him to help load it into a truck and told
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: him they were taking it to a storage facility. However,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: during the drive, she suddenly changed her mind. The plan
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: was now different. Instead of continuing to that facility, she
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: directed him towards a more remote area near Riverbank in
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Sutter County and told him to pull over from there.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: The box was pushed out of the vehicle and left there,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: and then on January first, nineteen eighty six, a fisherman
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: spotted the box. Now the wooden box that had been
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: disposed of was now sitting partially exposed, and its size
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: and construction were unusual enough to draw attention. When authorities
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: arrived after being called, they opened it and inside they
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: found the decomposed remains of an elderly man. Inside they
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: couldn't identify him immediately, and for the next several years
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: that body remained a John Doe. Now, during that same period,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Dorotheek continued to access ever since finances his pension checks
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: were deposited, his name was used, and the illusion that
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: he was still alive was maintained through forged correspondences, and
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: despite the condition of her parole, Dorothea began taking on
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: tenants again. Social workers even referred people to her, often
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: individuals who had been difficult to place elsewhere, like elderly
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: people dealing with mental illness and individuals recovering from addiction,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: or those who had been in and out of homelessness.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: How are they not doing background checks or anything on her?
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: I mean this is the seventies. They were very laxed
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: back back then.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, I guess it's like, okay, we found this
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: place to stay. Like there you go, done.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Pretty much now. These are people who needed structure, and
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Dorothea presented herself as someone who could provide it, even
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: to when it comes to social workers and stuff. Right now.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Once these people moved in, she positioned herself at the
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: center of their lives. She handled their mail, arranged their findances,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: and in many cases she became the person responsible for
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: manning their government assistance, the social security checks, the pensions,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: all that stuff. Tenants were once again given small amounts
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: of money back, just enough to cover personal needs, while
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: the rest was kept by Dorothea under the expectation that
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: it all went towards food, rent, and other household expenses.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: But she didn't just control the finances. The environment inside
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: the home was controlled too. Meals were served at fixed times,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: often early the breakfast and morning, and dinner by mid afternoon,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: and outside food wasn't encouraged. S I should say, Movement
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: was limited and independence was reduced in very subtle ways.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Mail was not something Tenants freely handled themselves. If checks arrived,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Dorothea's sow them first. If letters came in, she often
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: read them. The people living there became dependent not just
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: for housing but for access to their own resources. It
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: wasn'ttic or physically harmful to say, but it was structured,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: and their lives were very much so being manipulated and controlled.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: To people outside the house, it looked quite responsible. Though
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: social workers saw someone maintaining order, Neighbors saw an older
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: woman tending to her garden, cooking meals and occasionally helping
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: people who appeared worse off than she was. Even parole
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: officers who visited the property property multiple times didn't find
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: anything that triggered immediate action, because, when questioned, Dorothea described
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: the people living there as friends or temporary guests rather
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: than tenants, and that explanation was simply accepted.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, here, I thought the parole officers were there for
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: like people that were within the house, but it was
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: for her, for her, and she was getting away with this.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, so those parole officers were doing a fucking show job.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: That's Bonkershane. Yeah, Like it wouldn't take very much to
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: know that what she's.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Doing, I know, but she's just they're just like, oh,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: who are these people? Oh, they're just people who are
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: staying with me for a couple of weeks, you know,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: just some house guests.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: And then the next saying they come they're all different people,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: but it's still just other friends and family. Yeah, basically
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: whoa Okay.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: However, something else was happening, and over time that hidden
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: manipulation got darker and darker. Soon, individuals who had been
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: living at the house began to disappear, not all at once,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: mind you, and not in a way that raised any alarms. Remember,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: the people staying there were often in limited contact with family,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: or if even at all had contact. Some had history
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: is of moving frequently or losing touch with others, and
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: when they were gone, there wasn't always someone asking where
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: they had gone. Too. There were small details that didn't
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: quite fit, but they didn't come together just yet. For example,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: there was frequent work being done around the property, digging
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: in the yard, moving soil, laying concrete. Point a man
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: known as Chief, who had been taken in by Dorothea
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: and used as a handyman, was seen working on the
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: basement and the yard. He removed soil, help with construction,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: and then at some point he was just no longer
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: there as he disappeared, and no report was filed for
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: him either. At this point, there was still no clear
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: reason to suspect anything beyond minor irregularities. Dorothea continued to
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: receive referrals. She continued to operate without interference. The house
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: continued to function, and by the late nineteen eighties, the
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: number of people who had come through that house and
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: then quietly disappeared had begun to add up. It still
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: hadn't triggered a full investigation, though, but that changed when
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: one of those disappearances did not go unnoticed. In early
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight, a man named Alvaro Bert Montoya was
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: placed in Dorothea's care. Bert was fifty one years old,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: was developmentally disabled. He had also been diagnosed with schizophrenia
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: and had spent long periods of time homeless. But unlike
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: many of the other people who had passed through well,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: he wasn't completely isolated. He had regular contact with a
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: social worker named Judy Moyes, who monitored his condition and
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: made sure he was attending scheduled meetings. So when Bert
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: moved into her house, it followed the same pattern as
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: it always had. He was referred there because Dorothy's good reputation,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: and for a short time everything appeared normal. Then Bert
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: stopped showing up where he was supposed to. He had
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: now missed appointments, and I mean, these things can happen,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: especially with someone in his condition. But as the days
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: passed and then the weeks passed, Judy began trying to
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: track him down, and so she reached out to Dorothy directly,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: asking where he was and why he hadn't been seen
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: or attending his meetings, and the answer she received didn't
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: exactly make too much sense. Dorothea had a few different
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: things that she told, saying that Bert had gone to
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: visit family, or that he had traveled out of state.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: In some accounts, she claimed that he'd even gone to Mexico.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: The details just shifted depending on when she asked, and
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: there was no clear explanation that could ever be verified,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: and that inconsistency was enough to push things further, and
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: so Judy filed a missing person's report in early November
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty eight, and that decision would become the
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: most important moment in this story because it shifted everything.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Police were sent to one four two six F Street,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: and when officers arrived, they were met by Dorothea, who
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: appeared exactly as she always had, calm, cooperative, and willing
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: to talk. Now, something I need to clarify with you
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: all about Dorothea is that at this point in time,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: she's fifty nine years old. However, her looks were extremely deceiving.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: She often portrayed herself as being much older to her
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: ten or potential tenants in order for them to trust her.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: It was the way she was able to gain their trust.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: She had a full head of white hair, just white
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: and rather. She was rather frail too, and she wore
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: big prescription granny style glasses. She looked like a quintessential,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: like grandma or granny, as you want to put it.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: She looked like she was seventy plus years old. When
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: officers knocked on her door, and she repeated her explanation
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: to them that Bert had left on his own, and
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: another tenant in the house even supported her version of
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: events too, telling officers the very same thing. And so
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: getting this detailed event or whatever from this little old lady,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: this cute little old lady who's looking after and caring
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: for other people, there was no reason to detain her
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: or suspect otherwise. The house was checked out, nothing stood out.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: There are no signs of a struggle or an evidence
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: of a crime. Nothing. So it was just a missing
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: person's case that seemed to be explained by someone leaving voluntarily.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: And as the officers prepared to leave, fully convinced that
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: everything was okay, one of the attendants of that home
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: approached them quietly and handed them a note, and that
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: note said, she's making me live for her Oh.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, good for that person, because that wouldn't be
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: easy to do to just you know, have this little
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: note ready and find the opportunity to slip it to
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: the police when she doesn't see exactly.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: But they took that, They made sure they found that time.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: They took their chance, and they went for it, and
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: it's good that they did because it probably would have
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: stalled out there.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: It's so interesting too, that she is making herself come
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: across more like frail like this.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Well, it's not that she's making her sale self come
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: across frail. She's making herself come across old because old
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: generally means oh this cque old lady. Right, I can
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: trust she's harmless, Yeah, can do no wrong.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: So she's leaning into that.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Wow, she's I don't know, I almost want to say it,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: kind of smart but just manipulative.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Oh she's a psycho, is what you yah? Now? This note, though,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: back to it, it wasn't proof of anything, and it
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: didn't point to a specific crime either, but it directly
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: contradicted what they had just been told, and it suggested
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: that whatever was happening inside that house wasn't being said
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: out loud, and so The officers took that note and
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: they left quietly. But the visit didn't end the way
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: most routine checkups do, because instead of closing the file
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: or waiting for more information, they came back, and this
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: time they were looking at the property a lot different.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: See when detectives return to that house, the tone of
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: the investigation had shifted. This wasn't a routine follow up.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Bert was still missing. The explanation given by Dorothea didn't
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: line up, and now there was a direct indication that
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: at least one person inside the home had been pressured
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: to lie, and that was enough to justify taking a
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: closer look, not just inside the home, but also at
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: the entirety of the property. Detective John Caberra, along with
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: other officers and a parole officer familiar with Dorothea, arrived
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: on November eleventh, nineteen eighty eight. Inside the house, the
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: rooms were cluttered but orderly at the same time, and
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: there was no signs of violence or anything. Dorothea maintained
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: the same demeanor that she had always shown during the
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: first visit and everything she was calm, cooperative, and outwardly
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: concerned for the situation. Surprisingly, and when questioned about Bert.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: She repeated various stories about explanations on him leaving on
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: his own free will. But her explanations and the inside
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: of the house weren't the only part of the investigation.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: This time. It was the yard that drew the attention. See,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: there were reports of work being done, piles of soil
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: had been seen that sporadic times, and holes being dug.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: So the detectives had a hunch, and with shovels in
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: hand already prepared, they asked Dorothea if they could dig now. Ultimately,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Dorothea said yes. She had initially offered for them to,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: you know, not dig themselves. She would get someone, hire
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: someone to do it for them and they can take
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: a look. She was basically just trying to be like, oh,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: I'll get someone to do like I got a handyman right.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: To stall the stall what they're trying to do exactly.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: But the investigators held firm and they told her they
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: were fine digging themselves. Like they literally showed up shovels
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: in their hand, ready to dig.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Yikes.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: But once they doubled down, she didn't hesitate or object.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: She's just like, yeah, okay, fine, sounds good, go ahead,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: dig now. In fact, she even appeared accommodating in this
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: situation because she even provided an additional shovel to be
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: used and digging in the yard.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: For some reason, I was just picturing her bringing out like.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Damn iced tea, lemonade or something.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I thought you're going to say, because
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: that's where my brain went, that she just coming out
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: with the platter of like cold iced tea.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Fresh baked cookies or something.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she didn't.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Go that far, Okay, But with that though, the digging
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: into her yard started. The shovels made their way through
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: the soil with each passing minute, and the dirt was
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: turned over in small sections. Carefully and methodically. Officers worked
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: through the yard one area at a time, paying attention
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: to the spots that seemed out of place, and then,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: after a while, one of the shovels struck something. The
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: initial reaction was that it had just been a root.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: They had been digging, and a tree root had gone
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: into the yard in a certain area, and that's what
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: they were hitting. Something solid beneath the surface that was explainable.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: But as they cleared more dirt away and tried to
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: remove the object from the dirt, it suddenly broke free,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: and it wasn't a route, wasn't even wood or a rock.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: It was a human bone, part of a leg with
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: a joint still intact. At that moment the investigation changed completely.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: They were standing over human remains, and so the area
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: was secured, and as more soil was removed, the outline
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: of a body began to emerge. The remains were in
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: an advanced state of decomposition, but the positioning and the
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: context made it very clear this wasn't an accidental burial.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: This had been done deliberately. Investigators expanded the search area,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: focusing on every section of the soil that looked uneven
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: or disturbed slightly, anything that might have been recently altered,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: and they didn't have to look too far. As they
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: moved through the yard, they began uncovering more remains. Each
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: discovery followed a similar pattern. The bodies were buried in
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: relatively shallow depths at about three ish feet, often wrapped
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: in layers of sheets or blankets, plastic and tarps, secured
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: with tape and other bindings. Some were positioned in ways
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: that suggested it had been placed there very quickly, without
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: any sort of attempt at preservation just beyond concealment. The
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: condition of the remains also varied, but all of them
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: showed advanced decomposition, and at least one case, part of
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: the body was missing hands, feet, and the head, which
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: had been removed. Now as they continued, they kept finding
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: more and more bones, and by the end of the search,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: the remains of seven different bodies had been recovered from
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: that yard.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, that's a lot.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: But not just from the backyard, though the entire property
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: had been used for burial. The yard, the areas around
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: the house, sections near structures, and even just a few
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: feet from the public sidewalk in the front of the house.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: All of it had been turned into burial space over time.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Rudal.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: Now backing up slightly, when just the first body was recovered,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Dorothea was still at the scene. She was at the house,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: and even with the situation unfolding around her, her demeanor
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: did not change. She didn't attempt to run or anything.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: She didn't become visibly distressed. She answered questions but denied
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: knowing anything of what was being found. She cited that
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: other people often lived with her at the home, and
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: this gave room for doubt, saying Wow, we don't know
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: for sure if it was her.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. So she's just trying to pin it
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: on the people.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: To living with her, essentially, So, with one body being
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: found and the search now expanding to the property, she
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: asked the officers a question. She asked if she was
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: under arrest. When the answer was no, they had found
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: human remains, but they didn't have enough to formally charge
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: her for murder or anything. After all, like she said,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: other people came and went from that house, and identification
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: hadn't even been complete on the remains yet, and neither
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: had the cause of death even been established. So after
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: being told that she was not under arrest, Dorothea asked
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: if she could leave now. See she wanted to go
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: get a cup of coffee just a few blocks down.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: She wasn't like, can I just leave and never come back?
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: She like, yeah, I just want to go get a
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: coffee whatever, right, So the request was granted and she
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: was escorted down to a hotel lobby where she was
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: going to go sit in a cafe. However, once her
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: remains of the second body was found, it was clear
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: that a lot more was going on in the property,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: so the police quickly went back to confront Dorothea about it,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: but when they got back there, she wasn't there. Of course,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: according to the staff, Dorothea walked in, went straight for
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: a payphone, called a taxi and left.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: She was on the run, so they escorted her to
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: this coffee shop, but then they just let her be
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: there like chill, and then they left, just thinking that
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: she would have her freaking latte or whatever and then
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: mosey back to the house that they're finding numerous bodies at.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Correct. Was it the best thing that investigators could have done.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: No, but they're also saying they didn't have grounds to
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: do anything.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Else for sure. However, they probably should have at least
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: had eyes on her.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Sure, she's not arrested, so she has free will to
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: go eat coffee. But maybe, you know what, with an
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: active investigation going on, she should at least be detained,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: you know, or at very least have an escort sit
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: there outside watching her, ensuring that they can keep track
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: of her. They didn't do that, because.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Even with just one body found, I feel as though
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: she could be taken to the police station, you know,
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: for questioning, right and kind of being held to some extent.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Exactly being detained, right, you're not under rest, you're detained
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: for questioning.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so not the freedom to go down and get
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: her Latin.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: But I love how you're just getting her latte.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: For vanilla, being lockey like.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: It's just not okay, it's not a London fog or anything.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: No, she's not cool enough to drink a London fog.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, she's not hip with it. She's too old.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you're going to get in trouble for
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: saying that.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Well, no, I'm making a joke because she portrayed herself herself.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: I know, I know, but yeah.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: All in all, I don't think the police made the
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: right call. Yes, they should have at least detained her
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: for questioning. You were right, But in that same sense, yes,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: she was not under arrest. So I don't know if
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: she actually had the free right to go get a
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: coffee like that, or if they were just being very
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: generous and kind.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: But it is alarming too that she she played them
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: too right, because she was, you know, just she didn't
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: act any differently when a body was found in her
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: freaking backyard. So to them, they're kind of like, okay, well,
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: maybe she doesn't have anything to do with this, because
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: like she isn't, you know, super stressed or whatever. But
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: regardless if she had anything to do with it or not,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: she should be stressed. So I don't freaking know.
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: She's a nut job, she's a psycho. Yeah, But anyways,
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: let's continue on. So up to this point, she had
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: been a person of interest connected to the property where
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: the bodies were found, but now she was also missing,
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: and she had made her way south to Los Angeles,
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: carrying cash with her. She used an alias and checked
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: into a hotel and blended in. She spent time in
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: public spaces, including bars, and spoke to people around her
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: without drawing attention to herself, and in at least one instance,
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: she approached an older man and began a conversation that
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: included questions about his living situation and finances, the very
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: same type of approach that she would have used repeatedly
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: in the past. And it seemed like she was preparing
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: herself to get right back into her old habits and schemes. However, thankfully,
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: her time on the run didn't last long.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Now. She wasn't arrested immediately either, mind you, it took
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: several days before she was located, but during that time,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: her image had begun circulating through media coverage tied to
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: the investigation unfolding in Sacramento, as well as the discovery
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: of multiple bodies on her property, which had already drawn
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: significant attention. Law enforcement agencies extended their search beyond the city,
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: working with authorities in southern California, as a possibility of
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: her attempting to leave the state or even cross into
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: Mexico was very much so a possibility, But the break
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: in the search eventually came from a civilian. See While
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: at a bar in Los Angeles, Dorothea spoke with an
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: elderly man, and as a conversation continued, he slowly realized
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: he recognized her from the news, so after leaving her,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: he contacted the authorities and provided information about her location
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: and the hotel where she was staying at, and law
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: enforcement quickly respt and Dorothea was taken into custody without
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: any resistance.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Good job he was being observant.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: She was arrested on November seventeenth, nineteen eighty eight, four
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: days after leaving Sacramento. After her arrest, she was transported
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: back to face questioning and at that point the bodies
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: recovered from her yard were being processed. The forensic examinations
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: were underway, with investigators beginning to connect those remains to
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: missing individuals who had once lived under her care, and
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: of course she denied any responsibility, but the focus now
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: was on identifying the victims and understanding how long this
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: had been going on for and what exactly had happened.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Each set of remains was cataloged and assigned to a
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: corner's identification number, tied to the location where it had
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: been found. Now without fingerprints or usable dental records, in
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: many cases, identification depended on medical histories, bone structure, and
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: cross referencing missing persons connected to the house, and as
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: the process began, investigators also started looking backwards. The people
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: buried in the yard had not all disappeared at the
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: same time. They had lived at the house at different
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: points over several years, and reconstructing their timeline meant going
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: through tenant records, government assistant paperwork, and testimony from anyone
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: who had spent time in the home. Financial documents became
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: just as important as physical evidence. To bank accounts forged
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: checks and benefit payments showed that even After individuals had disappeared,
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: their money continued to be collected and used, and as
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: names began to be attached to the remains, a clear
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: picture started to form. Several of the individuals buried in
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: the yard had been receiving government assistants and had limited
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: contact with their family or outside support, which police learned
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: made their absence a lot easier to overlook at the time. However,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: it also provided a trail of financial activity that in
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: investigators could follow, and those records tied directly back to Dorothea,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: showing a pattern of control over her tenant's income and
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: continued access to their funds after they were even dead. Now,
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: the case did not stop with the bodies found at
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: the house. Once investigators began reviewing past incidents, Earlier cases
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: that had been treated as isolated ones started to come
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: back into focus. The death of Ruth Monroe, for example,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty two, the one which had been ruled
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: as suicide. It was now being re examined. Her rapid decline,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: the presence of drugs, inner system, and her connection to
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Dorothea all took on new meeting in the context of
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: what had been uncovered in the yard. The same process
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: applied to the unidentified body found in Sutter County in
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six to two testimony from Ishmael Florence, the
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: handyman who had built the transported box that was left behind,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: connected Dorothea directly to the disposal of that body that
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: was found inside, and through that link, investigators were eventually
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: able to identify the remains as eversin Gilmouth, the man
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: who had been corresponding with Dorothea while she was in
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: prison and had disappeared shortly after her release.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, I assumed, but yeah, you had never said for sure.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I kind of left it hanging for that reveal.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: That is so bonkers. Though I know how she went
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: about disposing of that body.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: I can't believe, like the galls on someone to do that, Like,
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: oh my god, just be like, oh yeah, handyman, build
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: me a coffin. Handyman, now help me move this coffin. Oh,
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: handyman helped me dump it on the side of a road.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: But he didn't come out with anything until now.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm not too sure when he really linked her
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: to it. I don't think it was very early. I
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: do think it was later on like this, but I'm
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: not certain. I do have to clarify that.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: He definitely didn't run to the police right after all.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: That shit went No, definitely not, which is otherwise she
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: would have already been in jail, yeah.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Right, which I just can't imagine how you can trick
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: your brain into thinking that all of those steps were Okay.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: I know she's fucked up, but no, but him too,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: oh he oh yeah, No, that is yeah too. The
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: fact that he didn't like he literally.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: Built a coffin and helped her dispose of it.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, I don't know for sure. This is a possibility,
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: so I'm going to speak on it just because of that.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: The fact that he's got a bit of a different name,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Ishmael Florence, it tells me he might be, you know, Mexican.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: We all are very well aware of the history of
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: illegal Mexicans in the United States. There is a possibility
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: he did not want to speak up because of residency
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: or facing repercussions of something along those lines. I don't
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: know that is peerspeck, but there is very much a
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: possibility he had reasons for not speaking.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Up, yeah, or like yeah, And I guess there could
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: have been like a language barrier of sorts too exactly.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: And here she is, this little lady right that could
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: do no wrongs.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So now they had connected these two cases, but
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: they still needed to identify all of the victims on
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: hand that were found in the yard and try and
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: reconstruct the timeline from there. So attention turned to how
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: these deaths had actually occurred. Now the condition of the bodies, however,
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: made that extremely difficult. Many of the remains covered from
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: the yard were in very much so advanced stages of decomposition,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: and they were mostly skeletal, which limited what traditional autopsies
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: could really determine. There were no obvious signs of trauma
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: in several of the cases, and without soft tissue preservation,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: pinpointing a clear cause of death wasn't always possible, so
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: that limitation forced investigators to rely on other forms of analysis,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: and toxicology became a central focus. Now, even with decomposition,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: certain substances could still be detected in bone and remaining tissue,
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: so forensic specialists began screening for drugs that might have
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: been present at the time of death, and when they
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: did this across multiple victims, one substance kept appearing fluorazepam,
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: commonly known by the brand named Domain. It is a
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: prescription sedative used to treat insomnia, and it was not
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: something that any of these individuals had been prescribed themselves.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: The consistency of its presence, despite the varying condition of
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: the remains, became one of the strongest links between each
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: and every one of them. Even with this evidence, though
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: it alone did not establish a definitive cause of death,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: the concentration levels unfortunately could not always be accurately measured
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: due to the decomposition, and there were cases where other
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: contributing factors could not be ruled out. However, when viewed
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: alongside the broader context of the investigation, it still carried
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of weight. Now, Dorothea had access to dalmain
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: through her prescriptions obtained from multiple doctors, and she had
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: a documented history of administering substances to incapacitate people she
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: had already been incarcerated for. In fact, the pattern that
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: emerged was consistent with that history. Victims were given something
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: that left them sedated or unable to resist, and in
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: that state they were vulnerable to further actions, whether that
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: meant suffocation, additional drugging, or simply being left in that
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: condition which led to death, we don't know. But what
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: we do know is once they were gone, their bodies
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: were buried in the backyard and their financial sources were
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: absorbed into Dorothea's control. Now taken together, the evidence did
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: not rely on a single cause of death for each victim,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: but instead it established a consistent method and a clear motive.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Vulnerable individuals were brought into a controlled environment, their finances
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: were managed by Dorothea, and at some point they died
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: under circumstances that aligned with the presence of a sedative
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: she had access to, and their deaths were followed by
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: continued financial activity in their names.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: It is still surprising to me, though, that she's able
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: to do all of this, because I mean, like she's not,
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: you know, like a spring chicken or anything. She's fifty
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: nine and to be able to move around like a
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: dead person's body and bury a hole and shit like
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: that wouldn't be easy.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Well, you're onto something, You're onto.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: Something, okay, Because I'm just sitting here like I would
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I could do it. I mean
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: I couldn't kill anyone, so we're safe there. But like
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: if I had to be moving this frickin body and
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: but bearing this digging this hole like that's.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: Tough, it is, So there's a lot of speculation about that. Unfortunately,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: we don't know much about if there was someone else.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: We do know some instances which I'll get into, where
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: she had help those people probably didn't know. For example,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: she had the handyman, right, So situations like that where
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: people could help her with some chores and stuff and
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: had no idea what they're helping her with. But there's
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: still some speculation that there could have been someone else
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: involved because how did she do all this on her own?
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: Mm hm.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: So you're very much so on the right wavelength with
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: that brain wave length, but thought process, there we go.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: She's at least getting help with the digging, right, And
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: then you know, in the middle of the night you
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: probably could who knows how big these people are, right,
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: and you're putting them in a blanket, and you're probably
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: able to drag them out to some extent.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but even still, then you've got to fill up
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: the hole.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so jeez.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: Now, by the time the case moved towards trial, investigators
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: had assembled a large body of evidence, but it was
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: not a simple case to present. There was no single
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: moment with a blood filled crime scene, no single piece
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: of evidence or a smoking gun that explained everything. Instead,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: it was built from layers financial records, with witness testimony,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: forensic analysis, and the physical discoveries made at that home.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: Each part pointed to the same direction, but each also
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: had limitations on its own. Preliminary hearings began in nineteen
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: ninety and during this phase, prosecutors outlined the scope of
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: the case, bringing forward witnesses who had lived in the house,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: individuals who had worked for Dorthea, and experts involved in
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: forensic analysis. Testimony from people like Ishmael Florence placed her
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: directly in connection with the disposal of Everson Gilmouth's body,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: while social workers and former tenants described the structure of
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: the house and the the level of control she maintained
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: over those living there. And The trial itself didn't begin
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: until nineteen ninety three, and it was moved out of
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: Sacramento to Monterey County. With the amount of media attention
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: surrounding the discovery of the bodies and Dorothea's arrest being
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: as significant as it was, the court determined it would
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: be too difficult to select an impartial jury locally, which
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: is why they moved. But now inside the courtroom, the
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: prosecution and defense presented two very different interpretations of the
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: very same set of facts. The prosecution's case focused on
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: the pattern that had been established. They argued that Dorothea
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: deliberately targeted vulnerable individuals, gained control over their finances, and
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: then used drugs to incapacitate them before causing their deaths.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: The presence of dalmain in multiple victims, her access to
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: the drug, and her history of administering substances to commit
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: theft presented as key elements to that argument. Financial records
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: were also presented showing that she continued to collect money
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: after these individuals were gone, reinforcing the argument that the
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: killings were financially motivated. The defense didn't deny that Dorothea
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: had taken money or forged checks, but they challenged the
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: idea that she had murdered anyone. Their argument focused on
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: the health of the victims, seeing many of the individuals
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: who had lived in the house were elderly or dealing
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: with serious medical conditions, including substance abuse and chronic illness,
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: so the defense suggested that these individuals had died of
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: natural causes or from complications related to their already existing conditions.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: They argued that Dorothea feared that she would once again
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: be blamed as she had been after Ruth's death, and
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: chose to hide the bodies rather than report the deaths
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: at all.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I was wondering what the defense was
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: going to say here, and that is just absurd.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: Well, and their key point though, to that argument was
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: the lack of definitive cause of death, saying prove they're murdered. Now.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: A forensic expert directly testified that duty decomposition, They could
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: not conclusively state how each individual had died, even with
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: the presence of dalmain found in their system. Now, the
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: trial itself was extensive, to say the least. In fact,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: the prosecution called well over one hundred witnesses and thousands
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: of pieces of evidence were introduced, diagrams of the property,
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: photographs from the excavation, financial documents, medical records. They were
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: all presented to the jury, and when the case was
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: finally handed over to them, the jurors were tasked with
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: weighing the large amount of circumstantial evidence against the absence
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: of definitive medical conclusion on several of the deaths. It
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: was not a straightforward decision, and the length of deliberation
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: reflected that, and ultimately, when the jury finally returned with
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: a verdict in August of nineteen ninety three, it was
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: not a complete resolution to everything that had been presented
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: in court. See. Dorothea had been charged with nine counts
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: of murder, seven tied to the bodies recovered from her yard,
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: along with the murder of Everson and Ruth, and after
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: weeks of deliberation, the jury reached a decision on only
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: part of that list. She was found guilty of three murders,
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: that of Benjamin Frank, Leona Carpenter, and Dorothy Miller. On
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: the remaining six counts, the jury could not reach a
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: unanimous decision and those charges resulted in a deadlock, meaning
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: there was no conviction and no acquittal. They could not
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: charge her with those murders.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, so she's charged with three, and how many is
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: she not being charged for? Then four?
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: Well, there were seven in the backyard, two upfront, so
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: she's charged for three. There's six remaining, Okay, six remaining
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: that she is not being linked to.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, Okay, I mean three is enough to get
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: her to put her away, but still that's kind of sucky.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: Well that's the thing. How long can three put her away?
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: For right?
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: For the rest of her life? In my opinion, I agree.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: Now, following the verdict, the case moved into the sentencing phase,
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: and in December of nineteen ninety three, Dorothea Puente was
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole thankfully.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I would be shocked if it was anything else.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: Now, the sentence ensured that she would spend the remainder
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: of her life behind bars, regardless of the outcome of
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: the unresolved counts. She was then transferred to the Central
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Californian Women's Facility in Cowchilla, where she would remain for
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: the rest of her life. Throughout the trial and after
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: the verdict, Dorothea maintained the same position that she'd held
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: in the moment she was taken into custody. She denied
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: that she killed anyone. She acknowledged the financial crimes taking
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: money forging checks, but she continued to insist that the
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: people who had died under her care had done so
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: from natural causes or circumstances unrelated to her own actions.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: It's too many, it's too many bodies for her to
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: be able to say that exactly.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: But still there was no confession, no admission of responsibility
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: beyond what she had already been found guilty of in court.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: She didn't say that she was guilty of any of them.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: Even the unanswered questions and how each person died if
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: someone acted with her, which is very much so something
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: police believe is a possibility, And how many victims had
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: maybe been in total, remain unresolved because there could still
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: be more. Ultimately, we will never know the answer to
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: those questions. As Dorothea Puente died in March of twenty eleven.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: March twenty seventh, I should say she died at the
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: age of eighty two, while still serving her sentence. By
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: that point, the case had already become one of the
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: most well known in Sacramento's history, not just because of
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: the number of victims, but because of how long it
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: had gone unnoticed. The people who had lived in her
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: house were individuals whose disappearances didn't immediately trigger widespread concern,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: and it took a single missing person's report, one that
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: was actually followed up on to bring everything to light. Now,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: I did mention there's a possibility of more victims, and
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: over the years there were suggestions that more people had
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: passed through Dorothea's care and had disappeared without explanation. Some
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: estimates placed that number significantly above the nine individuals connected
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: to the trial, but those cases were never fully established
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: within the same evidentiary framework. Without remains documentation witnessed tying
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: them directly to her actions, they remain outside of that
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: formal case. There were also unresolved questions about how the
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: burials were carried out, something you had pointed out already.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: The physical work involved in moving the burial of multiple
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: bodies raised the possibility that Dorothea may have not done
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: this entirely on her own. Now testimony suggests that at
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: least one tenant, Burnt Montoya, may have been involved in
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: digging at the property, though whether he understood what he
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: was doing or had been not exactly aware of it all,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: or who knows, has not been determined and will never
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: be determined. Other individuals have been hired for yardwork at
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: different times, too, but none were shown to have knowingly
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: participated in the disposal of any bodies, and without a
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: confession and without definitive forensic conclusions, the exact sequence of
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: events will never be fully established. The investigation reconstructed what
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: it could. The trial is establish what could be proven,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: but the rest was left as it was documented in
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: pieces connected through patterns, but never completely resolved. What remains
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: is a murderous old granny who took advantage of people.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: She was a cold blooded killer, even if she doesn't
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: want to admit it, And it proves that no matter
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: what anyone looks like, whether a big, burly tattooed biker
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: or a slim, quiet man with large glasses, or even
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: an old lady with white hair, we have no idea
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: what anyone is capable of, not the good in their
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: heart or the evil in their soul. But with that,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: I want to end this story by reading the names
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: of those who lost their lives to this lady. Ruth
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: Monroe was sixty one. She was initially ruled as a suicide,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: but her case was later reconstructed. Eversince Gilmouth was seventy seven.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: He was found in a bomb near the river and
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: was connected to Dorothea and the victims recovered from the backyard,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: who were all individuals who stepped into Dorothea's home looking
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: for help, and they were Leona Carpenter, who was seventy eight,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: Dorothy Miller, who is sixty four, Benjamin Fink who is
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: fifty five, James Gallup who was sixty two, Vera Martin
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: who is sixty four, Betty Palmer who is seventy eight,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: nalvarro Bert Montoya who is fifty one. Dorothea's legacy is
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: that of a cold blooded serial killer who silenced these people,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: and they deserve so much more than that, and they
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: hope that each and every one of them is resting
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: much easier since they've been removed from that tainted soil.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: And that's the story of Dorothea Puente.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: God, what a super bit.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: Like she.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: You can't even describe her in any way like just
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: super bitch.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: I just got to say, I'm like often very proud
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: of how I wrap up cases and stuff, like the
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: writing I put into this, and you just surpassed anything
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: I could have written by saying, Wow, what a super bitch.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: That sums it up so damn good. High five for that, yes, well?
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: And also, how dare she live until she's eighty two?
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: I know, right, that also pisses me off. Yeah, like, fuck,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: you tell me more on how you feel. Do you
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: want to hear more?
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: This case I found very interesting actually because well the
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: fact that it's a female, right.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: Is, which rather rare. Female serial killers are not found
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: very often.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: But just the fact that she could even have gotten
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: away with all this shit when like she had already
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: been caught multiple times, and like she had parole officers
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: and coming to the house and what were they doing,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: what were they actually doing? They were not doing their job. Yeah,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: you're right, So I don't know this. I mean what
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: you joked at the start of the case, and that's
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: the case that should have been the fucking case, but
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: it wasn't. So I don't know. It's just like a
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: big piss off here. And she's kind of a super
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: bitch and I don't like her and she sucks.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: That's her, by the way, here's a photo of her.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: Just pure I don't even know what to think. Like
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: she bothers me a lot.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: I agree, but that's she looks like a little old lady,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: So I don't even know.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: She looks evil though to me too.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know that in hindsight.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: I guess. Let me actually just look at a picture
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: of her, Go ahead and scroll, if I would just
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: see this little lady, she does look she has evil eyes, and.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: She does, she kind of does. But she looks harmless though.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: Because yeah, like what could she do to you kind of.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: Thing exactly, And here she's just a murderous psycho.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: Huh okay, Wow, that is just so interesting. And her motive,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: I suppose, really was just like money, right, Oh, it
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: was just money, but she obviously had to kind of
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: enjoy what she was doing to some extent too.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure she did.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: Oh just brutal. Yeah, like you said, all those people
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: deserved way.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: Better, oh so much better than what they got because
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: of that, because yeah.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: You don't want to live and tell, you know, your
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: golden years or whatever they call call them, just to
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: freaking be taken out by her.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: I know, you kidding me, So thanks Cassie for that
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: case suggestion. Nichole's going to be racking her brain over
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: for a few days, I'm sure.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I've been going down some like serious
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: rabbit holes lately of watching like cult stuff, and I
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: always like wonder if I was in these situations like
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: would I question stuff, you know? Or would you just
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: be like going with it? And even in this it's
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: like would you question her or would it just be like, no,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: there's no way she could be doing these things, you know?
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: Or this is in my head like she's not going
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: to harm me.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: Well, there was I actually you were watching one was
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: it yesterday? And there was something interesting that I recall
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: hearing from the documentary was one of the girls who
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: was being taken advantage of by this cult leader or whatever,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: who was arrested and put behind bars, and she said
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: that prison set her free because prison gave her the
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: time to sit down and reflect and look at it objectively.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: And she realized, now that she has this free time
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: to actually think about what's going on, it's so obvious that,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: of course he's not a messiah. He is manipulating all
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: these sort of sick things are happening. Yeah, And it's
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: only because you have that time to reflect on it
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: that it becomes obvious you're in that situation. You're being manipulated,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: you're being controlled, you don't know, you're assuming someone has
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: good intentions, you don't know, because that's why a person
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: is a victim.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I do kind of generally assume the best of
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: people to the to the most to them, to like
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: the most extent, But yes, I don't know. And then also,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: in this world, everyone is so busy too, and you
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: have so much always going on, and there's just you're
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: just having You're readily available to everyone at all times really,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: so you don't ever just have time to sit there
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: and reflect. People don't really make time to sit there
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: and reflect on their life and stuff. No, so it
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: is interesting that yeah, she you know, was serving some
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: time in jail, and that gave her her the chance
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: to kind of be like, holy shit, Yeah, what what
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: what did I allow happen to me?
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you right now. I know I'm
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: gonna have plenty of time to sit and reflect in
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: my life because I'm going to be going golfing tomorrow,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: which is a great time to reflect and chill.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: I've seen you golf sometimes and you're not really reflected.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: You're just like shit, fuck, what how did that go?
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: Like that? Yeah, that's venting.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: That's not reflecting.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: It's therapy. It's verbal therapy. Anyways.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that is exciting for you. I hope you
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: enjoy yourself.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: Thank you, but it's not about me and golfing. I
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: do hope those people, those poor souls are resting much
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: better now that they're not on her property. And like
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: I said, we appreciate the case recommendation. If you want
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: to send us a case recommendation, feel free. We check
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: messages and stuff too. We get a lot though, so
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: sorry if we don't get to everybody, but we do
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: also want to hear your opinions on this story, So
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: if you want to send us a message or an email,
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: we'll try and catch what you have to say. We're
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: an independent show. It's just us. We don't have a
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: team behind us who's opening and responding to stuff. So
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: if you get responded to, it is either Nicole or
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: I responding. That's just a fact of it. It's us
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: and you, which is.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: Kind of cool.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: I also just have to very much so quickly say,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: like your outros are great, well, thank you, you do
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: a good job. You should be proud.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's not as good as fucking bitch or
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: what did you say, she's such a bitch.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: Or I have a super bitch.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't remember exactly, but it was like perfect,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: the perfect bitch moment. I couldn't write anything better.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: So oh my gosh, I think you did.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: I think you did well. Thank you, but thank you
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: guys for being here as well and as always, until next.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 3: Time, stay wicked.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: Op
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 4: B oh oh