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How much do cattlde understand? What is their social structure? · The Horsehuman Connection Matrix

• 0:03
  This is the Horse Human Connection, a captivating podcast where we extend into the world of equine assisted learning, horse training.
• 0:12
  and gentleness in working with these magnificent creatures.
• 0:18
  Captivating stories from the leading professionals and ordinary people alike unravel novel ideas in being with horses.
• 0:26
  The Horse Human Connection is an idea, a place, and a voice.
• 0:32
  The idea is to support the quiet revolution and recognize the intelligence and true nature of the horse.
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  The place is a destination farm near the Umpqua Forest and River that slows down visitors and patrons enough to experience the shift.
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  The Voice is this podcast.
• 0:52
  Welcome to today's episode.
• 1:04
  Samson Q2U Microphone-4: Welcome to the horse human connection podcast.
• 1:09
  Samson Q2U Microphone-4: This next episode is about cows, not horses.
• 1:14
  Samson Q2U Microphone-4: But before I realized what horses were all about.
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  Samson Q2U Microphone-4: I realized it because I realized about the cows.
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  Samson Q2U Microphone-4: And having this herd of mixed cows that later were bred with black Angus bulls.
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  Samson Q2U Microphone-4: To produce a black Angus herd was one of the most incredible experiences of my life.
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  Samson Q2U Microphone-4: It happened over about a six year period.
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  Samson Q2U Microphone-4: And the cows taught me what was to come with the horses.
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  Samson Q2U Microphone-4: So I hope you will enjoy this.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I lived on a ranch mostly by myself.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: It was 206 acres.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: In about the middle of Southern Oregon.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Somehow I decided to raise black Angus cattle kind of on purpose and kind of by accident.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: When you have a ranch with that much grass, something's got to eat it.
• 2:01
  MacBook Air Microphone: Could be the deer and the elk, but it made sense to get some cows.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So I ended up buying some cows from a neighbor out there and he gave me a piece of advice.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: He said, talk to your cows when you feed them, walk amongst them and talk to them.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So they know your voice so you can call them in.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That was the beginning.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That was the best advice I could have gotten from the old doctor liquidating the herd of 16 mixed cattle.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So I'd had a cower too before with my ex-husband on the 10 acres that we'd had.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And now I had 16 cows on 206 acres, and there was plenty of feed.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I wasn't going to have to buy any feed.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: There was plenty of water.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And as I look back on it, the way I describe it, as I became a Taoist cattle rancher.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Now I'd had horses before, but I'd never done any roping or, or any cowboy things that go with cattle.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I didn't have any horses currently.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So my method of.
• 3:02
  MacBook Air Microphone: getting in these cows to cooperate with me was largely my voice in a bucket of grain.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I got pretty good with the voice and I, I took the doctor's advice and when I did feed them, I walked among them.
• 3:15
  MacBook Air Microphone: I tried to touch them black Angus cattle.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Don't really like to be touched.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So they're not warm, fuzzy.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Going to be your friend kind of animals.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Because I know you're going to eat them one day.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: But I did walk among them and I did get to know them.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I would lay down when there were calves so that they wouldn't be afraid and they'd come investigate me.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And sometimes they'd lick my long sleeve black or sniff about my legs and my feet.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And they were really a joy to me.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Cows have a very.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Distinct social order.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: They have a lead cow who's in charge.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And they have conversations with each other.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I am 100% convinced that they communicate with pictures in their minds.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And there are a couple of doctors.
• 4:01
  MacBook Air Microphone: Who study herd animals who agree with me?
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  MacBook Air Microphone: But I realized this long before I read what those doctors.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Had to say.
• 4:11
  MacBook Air Microphone: So, what are the cows stories is I had some help.
• 4:15
  MacBook Air Microphone: Trying to rope and band and vaccinate some of the calves.
• 4:21
  MacBook Air Microphone: I had teenagers at the time boys and they had friends and so they got together and one of them knew how to rope and somehow, or another, we got these cattle on the ground and got the little machine with the band and, and the vaccines.
• 4:33
  MacBook Air Microphone: And I was able to do that part.
• 4:37
  MacBook Air Microphone: We had the calves caught up in about a hundred by a hundred foot fenced pen.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And the mamas were on the outside.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And one of the mamas was a first time mom.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And her calf was in there and she was throwing a fit.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Her calf got separated when we let the others loose and it was stuck in there by itself.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And it took some time to get that calf out of there.
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  Samson Q2U Microphone-2: I used a technique that I learned from reading and watching.
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  Samson Q2U Microphone-2: A horse trainer named Monty Roberts.
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  Samson Q2U Microphone-2: He's the one that's credited with the language of Equis.
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  Samson Q2U Microphone-2: And he learned that by watching wild Mustangs in Nevada.
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  Samson Q2U Microphone-2: Oh, When he was a very young man.
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  Samson Q2U Microphone-2: He learned a lot about horse behavior.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Licking and chewing is part of what Monte Roberts uses to.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Train animals.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: It's a sign he looks for.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So I use this looking and chewing.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Imitating an animal.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Who is a Grazer by looking at shoeing and moving my jaw side to side instead of up and down.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I must've looked quite crazy doing it.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: But the minute I started doing this, not looking at the little calf.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I'm using my body language to not square off to him, but my shoulders to the side.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And looking and licking and looking down.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: When I did this, that calf trusted me suddenly.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I was not a predator.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I was another herd animal and he trusted me and I was able to get him out the gate and reunited with the mom.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Meanwhile on the outside of the fence.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: This mama, this new mom has been having this very loud conversation with the lead cow.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And in my imagination, the conversation was something like this.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: How could you possibly let that happen to our babies?
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Let them by the humans, without us there to protect them.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I will never trust you again.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I think that this is the conversation that they had and I.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: You know, give me some leeway here with imagination because.
• 6:39
  MacBook Air Microphone: Although I may be a little clairvoyant at times.
• 6:42
  MacBook Air Microphone: I don't know for sure that that's what I was reading, but here's what happened afterwards to make me think that.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That mama did not let that calf out of her sight, away from her side until it was over a year old.
• 6:57
  MacBook Air Microphone: I know this because I would follow the cows around sometimes because I did daily meditations with them in their wanderings.
• 7:05
  MacBook Air Microphone: I know that the hierarchy of the herd and the social structure included a babysitter like.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Th this is what most, most cattle will do.
• 7:14
  MacBook Air Microphone: Is they'll pick a babysitter to stay an adult cow, to stay with the babies while the mamas can, can make a wider circle and expand out a little bit to get better grass and to graze while the babies are all in one place.
• 7:29
  MacBook Air Microphone: Well, with my particular herd, I had one, it was a very mixed herd to begin with.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And there was one cow with horns.
• 7:35
  MacBook Air Microphone: And yeah, if you don't know anything about cattle, a lot of people think that bulls or mail cattle are the only ones with horns, but actually it's a breed thing.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And so within a breed, both the males and females will have horns and less genetically they don't.
• 7:49
  MacBook Air Microphone: And that's called polled in that gets real complicated.
• 7:51
  MacBook Air Microphone: But anyways, the cow with the horns is the one.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: That was in charge of the babysitting.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: When they were like zero to a month old when they were most vulnerable, the lead cow put the.
• 8:03
  MacBook Air Microphone: The cow best equipped to protect the babies with the horns to be the babysitter.
• 8:08
  MacBook Air Microphone: And and then it would switch off as I got older.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So.
• 8:16
  MacBook Air Microphone: That's how I know.
• 8:18
  MacBook Air Microphone: That this new mama.
• 8:20
  MacBook Air Microphone: Was having that type of conversation with the lead cow because she never allowed her calf to go with the babysit group.
• 8:26
  MacBook Air Microphone: She took that calf, With her all the time.
• 8:29
  MacBook Air Microphone: And the interesting thing about calves is when they are told to sit still.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: To stay in one place.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: They listen so much better than at least my human children did.
• 8:40
  MacBook Air Microphone: You stay there and they stay.
• 8:43
  MacBook Air Microphone: And that was demonstrated in another one of my cows stories, where I had this neighbor who used to help me run them through his shoot.
• 8:51
  MacBook Air Microphone: He had one of those fancy round shoots designed by Temple Grandin.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And you know what the blind.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Shoot at the very end in the circle.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And if you don't know about Temple Grandin and cattle, it's a fascinating story.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: She's one of the doctors that talks about herd animals.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Communicating in pictures.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Anyway.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: There's a great movie about her as, as a side note there, but this other cow story.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So we were running the mamas through we managed to get half of them through the gate on the side of the cattle guard.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And somehow the baby's turned around and we lost him and we eventually got the rest of the herd through.
• 9:29
  MacBook Air Microphone: Without the babies.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: So the babies were told to stay upon this little Knoll, not too far from the cattle guard.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And the rest of the cattle were sent over to the neighbors, which I moved them with.
• 9:41
  MacBook Air Microphone: Whoops.
• 9:41
  MacBook Air Microphone: And yell ups and actually kind of this belly dance call that I think comes from maybe Morocco, where you.
• 9:49
  MacBook Air Microphone: I don't even know what it's called, but it's like, ah, And that's the noise that I would use to move my cattle, to scare bears and coyotes away and whatever else I needed to do that was loud on this 200 acre ranch.
• 10:05
  MacBook Air Microphone: So, yeah, I was probably known as the crazy yodeling cow lady out there by myself, but I learned a lot.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I feel like what I learned was important.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And it's important enough to be telling you a story about it.
• 10:19
  MacBook Air Microphone: Anyhow.
• 10:20
  MacBook Air Microphone: So the cattle got run through the shoot.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Designed by temple Grandin and operated by my nice neighbor.
• 10:28
  MacBook Air Microphone: and I came back first.
• 10:31
  MacBook Air Microphone: Without the cows, we left them over there for some reason, for a little while I came back.
• 10:37
  MacBook Air Microphone: With the babies.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: Oh, I know I had a helper and they were bringing, the cattle back.
• 10:40
  MacBook Air Microphone: So I went back to find the babies and I sat with, I call them babies, the calves.
• 10:45
  MacBook Air Microphone: I sat with the calves on this Knoll.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: They didn't let me get real close.
• 10:48
  MacBook Air Microphone: Like I said, black Angus cattle are not real touchy, feely critters.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: But I sat with them.
• 10:55
  MacBook Air Microphone: And they got to know me and I chewed sideways and made a point of not looking them in the eye.
• 11:01
  MacBook Air Microphone: And pretty soon the other cattle came back directly to their calves where they had left them, where they knew they would be because when a mama cow tells her baby to stay, it does.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And when they found me there, they stopped.
• 11:13
  MacBook Air Microphone: They stopped in their tracks and they looked at me and they looked at the calves.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: And I will tell you from that moment on, I was in, I was part of that herd.
• 11:22
  MacBook Air Microphone: I was an honorary member.
• 11:25
  MacBook Air Microphone: Have a black Angus cattle herd.
• 11:30
  MacBook Air Microphone: That led to some other things.
• 11:32
  MacBook Air Microphone: There was another incident where There was a baby calf who was wedged in this drainage canal to the Creek.
• 11:39
  MacBook Air Microphone: The property had some Hills.
• 11:41
  MacBook Air Microphone: And on a south slope, there were several places where there were Springs along the south slope and they would come down and they would form canals as they got closer to the Creek.
• 11:48
  MacBook Air Microphone: And this particular little canal was maybe Maybe 20 inches wide.
• 11:53
  MacBook Air Microphone: And about three feet deep, two and a half, three foot deep.
• 11:58
  MacBook Air Microphone: And it was surrounded by that bunch grass that grows in wetlands.
• 12:02
  MacBook Air Microphone: It's actually a reed, I think.
• 12:04
  MacBook Air Microphone: Anyway, it can get really thick.
• 12:07
  MacBook Air Microphone: And this calf was stuck and we were up on the hill building something and somebody come down a couple of times for tools and materials and kept telling me, oh, there's a calf down there.
• 12:15
  MacBook Air Microphone: I heard it balling, but I just thought it couldn't find it small.
• 12:19
  MacBook Air Microphone: And I wasn't paying a lot of attention.
• 12:21
  MacBook Air Microphone: Finally, she went down there.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: She said, you know, I think.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: I think something's wrong.
• 12:25
  MacBook Air Microphone: And she described the situation to me.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: She said, there's this mama cow and a and a bull.
• 12:30
  MacBook Air Microphone: So the bull was like he was like a little more than a yearling and he had been the offspring of that particular cow that was waiting there with the calf.
• 12:38
  MacBook Air Microphone: And it was, that was the mom of the calf, as well as the calf was wedged.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: In this area so that its head was barely ground level.
• 12:48
  MacBook Air Microphone: And I came upon them.
• 12:51
  MacBook Air Microphone: And the rest of the herd had moved off and it was just the mom and the brother that were there.
• 12:56
  MacBook Air Microphone: And I came upon them and I was like, oh, what am I gonna, how am I going to get this calf out?
• 12:59
  MacBook Air Microphone: You know, I looked at the situation and.
• 13:02
  MacBook Air Microphone: I had a Bobcat and I thought, why come over here with the Bobcat and dig it out?
• 13:06
  MacBook Air Microphone: But that would just terrify the poor creature.
• 13:09
  MacBook Air Microphone: So I investigated a little bit more carefully.
• 13:12
  MacBook Air Microphone: And I was able to get in there on my hands and knees and move some of the brash and touch the calf.
• 13:18
  MacBook Air Microphone: As soon as I touched the calf.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: The mother and brother walked off to join the herd.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: It was as if they were saying she's got this.
• 13:25
  MacBook Air Microphone: we got her attention.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: She'll handle it.
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  MacBook Air Microphone: We trust her.
• 13:28
  MacBook Air Microphone: We can go now.
• 13:30
  MacBook Air Microphone: And that's what they did.
• 13:31
  MacBook Air Microphone: They went off and joined the herd and left me to deal with the problem.
• 13:34
  MacBook Air Microphone: Well, luckily.
• 13:35
  MacBook Air Microphone: The wedge was mostly created by this bunch grass.
• 13:39
  MacBook Air Microphone: And so by pulling the grass back, And kind of giving the calf a little bit of a motivation to move forward.
• 13:47
  MacBook Air Microphone: He was able to move forward and then jump out on his own.
• 13:51
  MacBook Air Microphone: But it was quite an interesting experience to be.
• 13:54
  MacBook Air Microphone: I called upon to help.
• 13:57
  MacBook Air Microphone: And trusted to that degree.
• 14:00
  MacBook Air Microphone: As soon as I made contact with the calf.
• 14:04
  MacBook Air Microphone: There's another story that comes to mind.
• 14:07
  MacBook Air Microphone: I didn't always live at the ranch when the cattle were there.
• 14:09
  MacBook Air Microphone: Sometimes I would visit once a month with grain and the grain was mostly to say, hello.
• 14:14
  MacBook Air Microphone: It's not like they needed the food.
• 14:15
  MacBook Air Microphone: And one bag split between anywhere between 16 and at one point 34 head of cattle is what I had.
• 14:21
  MacBook Air Microphone: You know, isn't really a supplemental feed.
• 14:23
  MacBook Air Microphone: It's a treat.
• 14:25
  MacBook Air Microphone: But it was enough that they knew when they heard my car to come running from wherever they were on the 200 acres.
• 14:30
  MacBook Air Microphone: And that's the kind of cows I had.
• 14:34
  MacBook Air Microphone: So this one day I had arrived and I was going to do some hiking and I set up off the hill where the trail was and the mama cow, the lead cow.
• 14:44
  MacBook Air Microphone: Came after me balling.
• 14:46
  MacBook Air Microphone: Oh, she was making such a fuss and this is not normal.
• 14:48
  MacBook Air Microphone: Behavior was just her.
• 14:49
  MacBook Air Microphone: It wasn't anybody else.
• 14:51
  MacBook Air Microphone: And she got in front of me a couple of times as if to block my way up there.
• 14:55
  MacBook Air Microphone: And when I kept kind of going around her and make her way up the hill, she followed me for a while.
• 15:00
  MacBook Air Microphone: Balling the whole time.
• 15:02
  MacBook Air Microphone: Finally, she gave up.
• 15:04
  MacBook Air Microphone: And went back.
• 15:06
  MacBook Air Microphone: So my destination was a Knoll at the top of the property with a lot of Oak trees.
• 15:11
  MacBook Air Microphone: And it's quite steep at the top.
• 15:13
  MacBook Air Microphone: When I.
• 15:15
  MacBook Air Microphone: Got almost to the top.
• 15:17
  MacBook Air Microphone: Something made me stop.
• 15:18
  MacBook Air Microphone: I heard something wrestling in the bushes and I thought it was deer.
• 15:22
  MacBook Air Microphone: I thought they were just some deer up there.
• 15:24
  MacBook Air Microphone: So I stopped and approached more cautiously, more slowly, more quietly.
• 15:29
  MacBook Air Microphone: And and then I saw what was happening.
• 15:32
  MacBook Air Microphone: One of the cows was giving birth up there.
• 15:36
  MacBook Air Microphone: And the mama cow had been asking me to leave them alone.
• 15:39
  MacBook Air Microphone: So I did that as soon as I saw what was happening, I turned and I went back down.
• 15:46
  MacBook Air Microphone: But if anybody thinks that cows don't communicate, if cows don't have an advanced social structure, if cows don't know.
• 15:53
  MacBook Air Microphone: What's in your mind and your heart, I'm telling you they're wrong.
• 15:57
  MacBook Air Microphone: And I know this is really upsetting.
• 16:00
  MacBook Air Microphone: For cattle ranchers.
• 16:02
  MacBook Air Microphone: People don't want to think this.
• 16:03
  MacBook Air Microphone: They don't want to know this.
• 16:04
  MacBook Air Microphone: We don't want to think that our food.
• 16:07
  MacBook Air Microphone: Has that kind of consciousness.
• 16:09
  MacBook Air Microphone: But it does.
• 16:13
  MacBook Air Microphone: It certainly does.
• 16:15
  MacBook Air Microphone: In fact, there was a moment with this neighbor.
• 16:18
  MacBook Air Microphone: Where he was helping me with the cows and he had some helpers and we had all my cows in a big pen.
• 16:24
  MacBook Air Microphone: That had the ability to be split into two.
• 16:27
  MacBook Air Microphone: Cause that's helpful for that sort of thing.
• 16:30
  MacBook Air Microphone: And his helpers were in there, like kind of prodding my cattle with electric cattle prods.
• 16:35
  MacBook Air Microphone: And I was like, what are you doing stops?
• 16:37
  MacBook Air Microphone: Do you don't need to do that?
• 16:38
  MacBook Air Microphone: Stop that.
• 16:38
  MacBook Air Microphone: What are you trying to do here?
• 16:40
  MacBook Air Microphone: And he said, well, what do you want to do?
• 16:41
  MacBook Air Microphone: And I said, well, let's separate them and run the moms through first.
• 16:46
  MacBook Air Microphone: So I jokingly, like this was about midway through some of the Cal stories that I just told.
• 16:52
  MacBook Air Microphone: So I didn't feel like.
• 16:54
  MacBook Air Microphone: My perceptions about my relationship with the cows was really cemented.
• 17:01
  MacBook Air Microphone: But it was good enough.
• 17:02
  MacBook Air Microphone: And I did this as a joke.
• 17:05
  MacBook Air Microphone: At first, but I got up there.
• 17:08
  MacBook Air Microphone: And I did my my thing to get their attention, which was to move like a cow.
• 17:12
  MacBook Air Microphone: I did that a lot.
• 17:13
  MacBook Air Microphone: I did a lot of imitating animals, and so I imitated this moon.
• 17:17
  MacBook Air Microphone: Got their attention.
• 17:18
  MacBook Air Microphone: They all stopped was when you put them in a pen, they do two things.
• 17:21
  MacBook Air Microphone: They mill in circles.
• 17:23
  MacBook Air Microphone: Which is what temple Grandin's like circle thing is based on.
• 17:27
  MacBook Air Microphone: And they make a lot of noise cause they don't know what's happening and why they're caught.
• 17:31
  MacBook Air Microphone: So when I got up on this fence and I mood.
• 17:34
  MacBook Air Microphone: They all stopped and looked at me.
• 17:37
  MacBook Air Microphone: And that was probably enough to make the neighbor and his hands.
• 17:41
  MacBook Air Microphone: Drop their jaws.
• 17:44
  MacBook Air Microphone: The thing I did next.
• 17:46
  MacBook Air Microphone: And again, I say I was half joking when I did it.
• 17:48
  MacBook Air Microphone: I didn't expect it to happen.
• 17:50
  MacBook Air Microphone: I said mama's over here and baby's over there and motioned to the two opposite ends of this rectangular pen.
• 18:01
  MacBook Air Microphone: And they did it.
• 18:03
  MacBook Air Microphone: And these men looked at me like I was a witch and they started calling me the cow whisper.
• 18:11
  MacBook Air Microphone: The fact that.
• 18:13
  MacBook Air Microphone: I had exposed cattle to be intelligent.
• 18:17
  MacBook Air Microphone: Loving interactive creatures.
• 18:20
  MacBook Air Microphone: Was probably too much for their world of raising them for
• 18:23
  Samson Q2U Microphone-3: Come to the horse human connection.
• 18:27
  Samson Q2U Microphone-3: This podcast is mostly about horses.
• 18:29
  Samson Q2U Microphone-3: So though it's about asking questions and answering questions, and I have to include the stories about the cows because before there were horses, there were cows.
• 18:40
  Samson Q2U Microphone-3: And that's where my awareness of herd animals began.
• 18:46
  Samson Q2U Microphone-3: So onward with the cows stories.
• 18:51
  MacBook Air Microphone-4: So this podcast is about.
• 18:56
  MacBook Air Microphone-4: Horses.
• 18:59
  MacBook Air Microphone-4: And more than horses, but it.
• 19:04
  MacBook Air Microphone: beef
• 19:07
  MacBook Air Microphone-2: When our belief systems become challenged.
• 19:14
  MacBook Air Microphone-1: Especially the belief systems that drive our behavior or our financial livelihood..
• 19:19
  MacBook Air Microphone-1: Either.
• 19:20
  MacBook Air Microphone-1: We have to make a shift.
• 19:21
  MacBook Air Microphone-1: We have to acknowledge new truths.
• 19:24
  MacBook Air Microphone-1: Or.
• 19:27
  MacBook Air Microphone-1: We just can't hear it.
• 19:29
  MacBook Air Microphone-1: And I think what happened is they had so much invested.
• 19:32
  MacBook Air Microphone-1: They just couldn't hear it.
• 19:34
  MacBook Air Microphone-1: And so eventually I became the bad guy.
• 19:38
  MacBook Air Microphone-1: The messenger.