Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 15 September

Transcript

The Bolt Report | 15 September · The Bolt Report

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: This is The Bolt Report.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Well, good evening.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: Thanks for joining me on The Bolt Report. I'm James McPherson.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: Here's what's coming up tonight. Bowen's backflip. Everyone's favourite energy
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: minister wants you to believe he never bought into the
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: green hydrogen hype.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: No, not at all.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: Although the billions of dollars he splurged on the cause.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Tend to suggest otherwise.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Matt Canavan joins me shortly. The immigration debate heats up.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: One nation ruffling feathers with their proposal to slash immigration numbers,
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: while Pauline Hanson fronts the media to fend off criticism.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: More on that and more with Barnaby Joyce later in
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: the program. And we'll cross to Sean Spicer in the US,
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: where President Trump has branded AI doomsday claims as a hoax,
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: comparing the artificial intelligence race to the arms race and
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: warning we mustn't let China get ahead.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: We'll get to all of that shortly.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: But first, there was a fascinating debate on the ABC
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: last night around immigration. And it's worth having a look
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: at it because the contrast between One Nation's approach to
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: the issue and that of the two major parties was
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: about as subtle as... Well, Pauline Hanson's comments on Indigenous culture.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: I think the debate on immigration last night between Barnaby
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: Joyce and Andrew Hastie illustrated why One Nation is so
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: popular with voters.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Now, as you'd be aware, One Nation came out.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Yesterday and announced they'd introduced negative net migration for three years.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: The plan means slashing student and temporary visas by about
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: 750,000 before resetting migration numbers to 2017 levels, after which
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: that's where the number would remain. Now, Liberal MP Andrew
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: Hastie was asked a very simple, very specific question on
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: the ABC last night. What didn't he like about One
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Nation's policy? Now, have a listen to the response. And remember,
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: Andrew Hastie was asked what he didn't like.
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: Are there any specific ideas they've put forward that you
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: think are bad?
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Look, I think, well... Are you going to match us?
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: We'll come out when we're ready. It's not a race
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: on social media. So when's that? What day is that
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: going to happen? We're working through it. Don't you worry, Barnaby.
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: Don't you worry about that.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: All right, so here's the first thing a lot of
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: voters can't understand. Discontent about mass migration is not new.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: This issue didn't suddenly materialise yesterday like a mysterious rash
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: on the body politic. Australians have been complaining about migration levels,
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: housing pressure, population growth for years.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: And what have the Liberals got?
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Nothing.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, not quite nothing.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: They have this vague notion of tying immigration numbers to housing,
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: which might stop housing crisis getting worse, but it doesn't
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: do anything to fix it. And Hastie says the Liberals
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: will have a policy when the Liberals are ready. So
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: when might that be? Because voters have been ready for.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: A long time now.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, how can the Liberal Party still not be ready?
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: What have they been doing since losing so badly at
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: the last election?
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: If an immigration policy could be found in one's naval,
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: I suppose they would have one. But back to the question,
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: which was, what part of One Nation's policy announced yesterday
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: does Hastie disagree with?
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: Are there any ideas that you don't like?
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Look, I think... Not many. No, no.
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: No, I think reducing the amount of temporary graduate visas
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: is really important.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: You think it's a good idea?
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I think it's a good idea, absolutely. Any bad ideas?
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I think stopping the visa hopping is a very good idea.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: OK, so this was getting awkward.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: It appears like Andrew Hastie doesn't have a bad word
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: to say about One Nation's policy. So either he agrees
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: with it or he's afraid to disagree with it. And
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: even Barnaby Joyce by now was intrigued.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: What are our bad ideas?
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Well, the bad idea is that you haven't really explained
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: how you're going to do it.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: OK, so Hastie doesn't disagree with One Nation's policy on immigration.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: He just wants to know how they plan on implementing it.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: And this brings us to another problem voters have with
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: the coalition. Many conservative voters are weary of a coalition
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: that will tell them what they want to hear, yes,
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: we need to cut immigration, only to win government, and
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: then waste their mandate explaining condescendingly why it's all just
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: too hard to do more than tinker around the edges.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: The promise is populist.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: The implementation is managerial and the excuse, well, it's usually
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: pinned on a faceless bureaucrat. There's no such concern about
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: One Nation, though. Barnaby Joyce was asked if he was
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: worried that cutting immigration so drastically might adversely affect the economy.
• 4:47
  Speaker 6: With the issue of what it's going to cost.
• 4:50
  Speaker 7: I think is contentious, but I don't have no concern
• 4:53
  Speaker 7: about following the will of the Australian people to reduce immigration.
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: Because if we have to.
• 4:59
  Speaker 7: Say to Treasurers, well, you will determine what our migration
• 5:02
  Speaker 7: level will be, I think people will get pretty annoyed
• 5:04
  Speaker 7: with us and you won't be in politics for very long.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: In my view, Barnaby Joyce is accurately identifying something important
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: about the mood of the electorate. People don't want to
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: vote for politicians only then to have those same politicians
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: spend three years sitting in their plush Canberra offices explaining
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: why the bureaucrats say what you elected us to do
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: is probably better not done.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: And this is where Barnaby Joyce hits another nerve.
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: Why didn't you go to them to help us all
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: better understand what it costs?
• 5:33
  Speaker 7: Well, I think the Australian people are sort of tired
• 5:35
  Speaker 7: of the fact that you have to go to an economist...
• 5:37
  Speaker 7: You don't have to go to anyone, but this is
• 5:39
  Speaker 7: about helping.
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: Us all better understand the cost to us.
• 5:42
  Speaker 7: And to be quite frank, I've been around this game
• 5:44
  Speaker 7: for a while and I've never seen forward estimates in
• 5:48
  Speaker 7: any budgetary paper being even close to the mark of
• 5:51
  Speaker 7: what it's supposed to do.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: And everyone in Australia said, bingo, there's a high level
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: of distrust of experts in the community right now. And
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: it's not difficult to understand why. I mean, do you
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: remember when experts told us it was too dangerous to
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: play golf during COVID? Experts tell us a biological man
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: who identifies as a woman is a woman. And experts
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: tell us our power bills did drop by $ 275.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: We just haven't noticed yet.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: So when One Nation goes to Treasury and Treasury says, look,
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: cutting immigration back to 2017 levels, it's going to be
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: economically harmful, a lot of Australians are likely to respond,
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: what exactly was so terrible about 2017? And then they
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: might reasonably ask another question, how much confidence should we
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: place in Treasury modelling when Treasury modelling has been spectacularly
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: wrong about so many things without, strangely, any Treasury bureaucrat
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: ever being required to stand before the Australian people and
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: explain the error? Why should the bean counters get the
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: final say over what Australians can and cannot have? Why
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: should an unelected official determine the limits of an elected
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: government's mandate? And this is where Barnaby Joyce delivered, I think,
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: the most important line of the whole night.
• 7:06
  Speaker 7: And so the will of the Australian people is so
• 7:10
  Speaker 7: pronounced that This has to be dealt with.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: We will deal with it. No matter the cost?
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: No matter the cost.
• 7:14
  Speaker 7: We will deal with it and it is our policy
• 7:17
  Speaker 7: and we go forward with it.
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: Are you worried about what the Parliamentary Budget Office might produce?
• 7:21
  Speaker 7: No, I'm not really because they're not elected, I am.
• 7:25
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: Andrew Hastie, what do you make of that?
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: The awkward pause after Barnaby Joyce said that under One Nation,
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: the people who voted rather than the faceless bureaucrats would
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: be responsible for determining the direction of national policy was telling,
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: wasn't it? Because Barnaby Joyce had just articulated something that
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: seems increasingly foreign to modern politics. The people who are
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: elected should make the decisions, not the bureaucrats. Not the consultants,
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: not the economists, not the experts whose models somehow become
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: more authoritative than the electorate itself. Politicians can certainly listen
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: to experts.
• 8:04
  Speaker 6: They should.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: But listening to experts.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: Is not the same thing as surrendering democracy to them.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: And perhaps this explains why One Nation is increasingly popular
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: with voters. It isn't necessarily because voters think every One
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: Nation policy is brilliant.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: It's because One.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: Nation appears willing to say, you elect us, we'll make
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: the decisions you elected us to make. Whereas the major
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: parties increasingly seem to say, you elect us and we'll
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: get back to you after we've asked the public service
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: what they think is best. Well, it's nine months since
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: Australia's worst terror attack, and there are still so many
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: questions unanswered about how things ever got to the point
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: where Australian Jews could be shot in cold blood on
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: Bondi Beach. There's also still so many questions about what
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: we should do to prevent something like this ever happening again.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: And that's why I'm so glad my.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: News24 colleague, Shari Markson, along with Jewish community leader Alex Rivchin,
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: made the effort to write Bondi Terror, a book formally
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: launched last week.
• 9:10
  Speaker 8: I want to congratulate Shari and Alex on a truly
• 9:13
  Speaker 8: moving and important book. Most importantly, I want to thank
• 9:19
  Speaker 8: all of you for so honestly sharing your stories. This
• 9:24
  Speaker 8: book bears witness to those stories, stories of immense tragedy
• 9:30
  Speaker 8: and great courage, and, I hope, honors you and those
• 9:37
  Speaker 8: we lost.
• 9:38
  Speaker 9: Shari and Alex, This book is confronting and at times
• 9:42
  Speaker 9: heartbreaking to read.
• 9:43
  Speaker 10: Alex and Shari have brought a relentless energy and focus,
• 9:50
  Speaker 10: courage and conviction to the task of informing the Australian
• 9:55
  Speaker 10: public and countering the disinformation.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: So the book explores the chilling eyewitness testimony from survivors,
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: witnesses and first responders, as well as thoughts from eminent
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: Australians about where we go from here. And I'm delighted
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: to have Shari Markson with me on the program. Here's
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: the book, Bondi Terror, and it's available today in stores.
• 10:17
  Speaker 11: Today, it's out today in stores.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: All right, I want to begin with the obvious question.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, I know you, you are pretty busy. You're
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: a mum, you're a wife, you've got a nightly TV show.
• 10:27
  Speaker 12: Yes.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: Why was it so important on top of all that
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: you're already doing to write this book?
• 10:32
  Speaker 9: You know, after my Wuhan book, I thought, that's it,
• 10:35
  Speaker 9: I'm never writing another book because it takes so much.
• 10:38
  Speaker 11: But the truth is, James, this was just too important.
• 10:41
  Speaker 9: I really wanted to honour the victims, the people who
• 10:44
  Speaker 9: lost their lives at Bondi. You know, this is my
• 10:47
  Speaker 9: Jewish community. This is my home. This is our nation
• 10:50
  Speaker 9: that's going.
• 10:51
  Speaker 11: Down a path none of us want it to go down.
• 10:54
  Speaker 9: So I just felt really strongly about making sure that
• 10:57
  Speaker 9: history was recorded properly and and that we told the
• 11:01
  Speaker 9: stories beautifully. And I was in touch with so many
• 11:04
  Speaker 9: of the families of the victims through my reporting, through
• 11:07
  Speaker 9: the community.
• 11:08
  Speaker 11: And I think that the book does that.
• 11:10
  Speaker 9: It does record their stories, but it also shows where
• 11:14
  Speaker 9: we went wrong and starts to answer the question about
• 11:17
  Speaker 9: where we go from here, how we get back on track.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: I want to ask you about Geffen Bitten, who is
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: featured in the book. He's an Israeli young man who
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: got to one of the gunmen just after Ahmed El
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Ahmed tackled the gunman. And Geffen, who is in hospital
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: and may never walk again because he was shot not
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: long after the footage that we're seeing there. He lives
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: with the regret that he didn't get to the gunman
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: before El Ahmed.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Tell me about that.
• 11:47
  Speaker 9: Yeah, so the footage that we just played on the screen,
• 11:50
  Speaker 9: he's the guy in red. So he decided he was
• 11:53
  Speaker 9: already safe. He tells us in the book, he's never
• 11:55
  Speaker 9: done an interview before, he was in a coma for
• 11:57
  Speaker 9: three and a half weeks, and he tells us in
• 11:59
  Speaker 9: the book that the shooter, Sajid Akram, actually shooed him away.
• 12:04
  Speaker 11: He was outside the festival. He didn't think he was
• 12:06
  Speaker 11: part of it. So he was safe.
• 12:08
  Speaker 9: He then saw that no one was stopping the shooting.
• 12:11
  Speaker 9: So he ran back in. But he got there a
• 12:13
  Speaker 9: few seconds after Ahmed. And he says he was yelling
• 12:16
  Speaker 9: at Ahmed, shoot him, shoot him.
• 12:19
  Speaker 11: And he was then hit.
• 12:21
  Speaker 9: And as you said, Geffen told us that doctors have
• 12:24
  Speaker 9: told him he'll never be able to walk properly again.
• 12:26
  Speaker 9: He can now be on crutches for a very short distance.
• 12:30
  Speaker 9: He's still got a lot of procedures and hospital stays
• 12:33
  Speaker 9: ahead of him. But he says what haunts him at
• 12:36
  Speaker 9: night is the thought that if he had got there before,
• 12:39
  Speaker 9: what would he have done? Could he have stopped the
• 12:41
  Speaker 9: shooting earlier? Because, of course, Sajid Akram, after Ahmed disarmed him,
• 12:46
  Speaker 9: he went back to the bridge, got another weapon and
• 12:49
  Speaker 9: then kept firing into the festival.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: And as I understand it, reading the book, Geffen is
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: under no illusion.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: He would have shot the terrorist.
• 12:56
  Speaker 11: Oh, absolutely.
• 12:57
  Speaker 9: He was in the IDF. He knows how to use
• 12:59
  Speaker 9: a weapon. He would have shot Sajid Akram. There's no
• 13:02
  Speaker 9: doubt about that. That's what he went in there to do,
• 13:05
  Speaker 9: but he just got there too late. It's also a
• 13:07
  Speaker 9: kind of fascinating story. He talks about when he was
• 13:09
  Speaker 9: in the coma having this, I suppose, near-death experience and
• 13:12
  Speaker 9: having to decide whether to come back to earth or not.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Wow, OK.
• 13:16
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Sliding doors moments, right? How different things could have been.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: And as you said, he might not walk again and
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: the attack could have been not quite so deadly had
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: he got there a moment.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: First, you talk to John Howard in the book.
• 13:29
  Speaker 11: Yes.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: And I'm fascinated by comments he made about the dangers
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: of cultural relativism.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Tell me about that.
• 13:37
  Speaker 9: Yeah, so for the final chapter of the book, Alex
• 13:39
  Speaker 9: and I interviewed world leaders about how we deal with
• 13:43
  Speaker 9: this problem of terrorism, which is impacting on different Western
• 13:46
  Speaker 9: societies around the world. And so, you know, is it
• 13:49
  Speaker 9: just a problem of immigration? Is it just multiculturalism? And
• 13:53
  Speaker 9: so we asked John Howard that question. And he said, well,
• 13:57
  Speaker 9: in his view, not all cultures are equal. He says
• 14:00
  Speaker 9: a culture where women are treated as inferior is not
• 14:04
  Speaker 9: equal to ours. He says a culture where Jews are
• 14:07
  Speaker 9: treated as inferior is not equal to ours. And he
• 14:10
  Speaker 9: came out quite strongly against multiculturalism. He says it was
• 14:15
  Speaker 9: politicised or weaponised for political purposes.
• 14:17
  Speaker 11: He believes strongly in integration.
• 14:19
  Speaker 9: I'm actually going to play his comments on my show
• 14:21
  Speaker 9: a bit later, the audio of the comments later.
• 14:24
  Speaker 11: So, you know, really interesting.
• 14:25
  Speaker 9: We asked Chris Minns the same question about multiculturalism and
• 14:29
  Speaker 9: it was surprising his answer to me for a Labor figure. Also,
• 14:33
  Speaker 9: he said, you know, we need to abide by Australian values. Otherwise,
• 14:37
  Speaker 9: it's not going to work. In fact, he says, I'm
• 14:40
  Speaker 9: giving away my own scoop now from my TV show,
• 14:42
  Speaker 9: but he says we'll end up like France.
• 14:44
  Speaker 11: That's what Chris Minns says.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: OK, well, as soon as I finish this show, I'm
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: watching yours because I'm really interested in the line between
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: multicultural tolerance.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: and cultural appeasement.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: And so I'll be fascinated to hear what John Howard
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: has to say later on in your program.
• 15:00
  Speaker 9: Just further to that point, I mean, I don't think
• 15:02
  Speaker 9: it's as simple as having a blanket ban on countries because,
• 15:05
  Speaker 9: you know, Sajid Akram was from India. I mean, we've
• 15:09
  Speaker 9: got a wonderful Indian community, so that's not going to
• 15:11
  Speaker 9: solve the problem. It is doing proper security and background
• 15:15
  Speaker 9: checks on every person that comes here.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: We're going to run out of time and we could
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: talk about this forever, but we'll watch your show.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Later and get more.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: But just tell me about Federal Court Judge Michael Lee,
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: because a lot of people in the Jewish community wanted
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: him to lead the Royal Commission.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: He was overlooked.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: And I was fascinated in your book, you reveal why
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: he was not chosen.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Tell us about that.
• 15:36
  Speaker 9: So we've got a chapter in the book on the
• 15:38
  Speaker 9: fight for the Royal Commission and what happened behind the scenes,
• 15:41
  Speaker 9: the politics of it. And, yes, Jewish community leaders, some
• 15:44
  Speaker 9: of them, put forward Justice Michael Lee's name as their
• 15:48
  Speaker 9: preference for commissioner.
• 15:50
  Speaker 11: Now, we say in the book that.
• 15:53
  Speaker 9: The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, had two reasons for not
• 15:56
  Speaker 9: picking Justice Lee. One, he felt that Virginia Bell was
• 16:00
  Speaker 9: more qualified as a former High Court judge. But secondly,
• 16:04
  Speaker 9: he said that Justice Lee's wife, Penny, is Jewish. And
• 16:09
  Speaker 9: he didn't want there to be this impression that Michael
• 16:11
  Speaker 9: Lee might not be impartial because his wife was Jewish.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 16:16
  Speaker 11: Look, everyone will have an opinion on that. I do.
• 16:19
  Speaker 9: I don't think the religion of his wife should disqualify
• 16:22
  Speaker 9: him from holding a job.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: It wouldn't disqualify you from any other job, would it?
• 16:27
  Speaker 11: No, it certainly wouldn't.
• 16:28
  Speaker 9: But there was also the secondary reason, as I said,
• 16:30
  Speaker 9: that Albanese felt Virginia Bell was more qualified as a
• 16:34
  Speaker 9: former High Court judge. And, of course, she had done
• 16:36
  Speaker 9: another inquiry for Albanese before into Scott Morrison's multiple ministries,
• 16:41
  Speaker 9: which had an outcome that Albanese would have been happy with.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Fascinating stuff.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: I look forward to hearing more about this at 8pm
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: when you host your program.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Thanks for coming on tonight. It's fascinating to talk about it.
• 16:53
  Speaker 11: Thank you so much for your friendship and support.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Congratulations again on a wonderful book, as you said, available
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: in stores today.
• 16:59
  Speaker 11: Today, yep, and online at Big W and QBD Books.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: Terrific.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Shari.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: All right, there was an interesting twist to the immigration
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: debate today. The Nationals have accused the Albanese government of
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: not pushing through enough holidaymaker visas, a move they say
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: is going to hurt tourism and agriculture. Joining me now
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: is Nationals leader Matt Canavan. Matt, thanks for coming on
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: the program. Why has the government been so slow to
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: approve these holidaymaker visas?
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: Well, James, I just think it's a consequence of the
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: government not being able to come to its own position
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: on migration policy.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: We've seen reports of up.
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: To six Cabinet meetings now discussing migration policy, and the
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: Minister for Immigration, Tony Burke, has been rolled at every
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: one of them. He's been rolled more than a pizza
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: dough in an Italian restaurant. And it's about time the
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: government got its act together. Now, I think what's happening, seemingly,
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: is because they're desperate to bring these numbers down to
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: some degree, but they can't decide on a sensible strategy.
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: They're just simply taking the lazy approach and letting the inbox... grow,
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: and that's not a sophisticated response to the issues we face.
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: We do need some workers to help out in our
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: tourism industries going into Christmas. I've been meeting with that
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: industry this week, along with our Shadow Minister for Tourism,
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: David Littleproud, and they're pulling their hair out.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: The businesses might.
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: Not be able to open over Christmas if they can't
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: get these approvals done. They're normally done within a month,
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: and they're taking much, much longer than that. So the
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: government's got to answer you. What the hell is going on?
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: Why can't you do your job in the first place
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: of just basic bureaucratic processing. In the second place, yes,
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: the numbers need to come down, but the numbers that
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: have gone up have significantly been in student visas, in
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: temporary graduate visas. Why can't you do something to rein
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: those in?
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: While we're talking about immigration, just quickly, I spoke earlier
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: in the program about Andrew Hastie not being able to nominate,
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: or at least appearing not to be able to nominate,
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: anything he disagreed with regarding One Nation's policy. Is there
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: anything about what they're doing or proposing that you don't like?
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: Well, look, I think we have to be careful about
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: the pathway here, back to a balanced outcome. So One
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: Nation have suggested a reduction in the size of the temporary...
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: visa population of 750,000 in three years. That's pretty much,
• 19:18
  Speaker 5: it's even a little bit more than what we experienced
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: during COVID. And so I'm a bit concerned about that,
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: that I don't think our country needs another COVID. I
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: don't want to apply shock therapy to businesses as we
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: have to recover from the mistakes of this government. And
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: don't get me wrong, the increase in migration we've seen
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: from this government is a function of them botching the
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: reopening of our borders post-COVID, and we've got to rebalance
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: things now. So it is going to take an adjustment,
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: but we've just got to be careful about that. That's
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: why we're going through a very detailed process. We'll have
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: everything costed. We're talking to business about the impact because
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: we've just got to have a balanced situation here. But, look,
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: there are good ideas in what was announced. We've been
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: working on lots of these things too. There's too much
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: visa hopping going on. These temporary graduate visas are being abused.
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: So we're looking at all of those things. But the
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: one thing that was lacking in the One Nation policy
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: was that basic impact, that basic cost on the budget,
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: on the broader economy. We've got to factor these things in. Like,
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: to get it right, this is really serious, it is
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: very complex, we've got to do that work before going out.
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: And that's demonstrated, I must say, one more thing, James,
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: this is the fourth migration policy from One Nation in
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: four weeks. You know, it's perhaps a consequence of not
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: crossing all these T's and dotting I's. We've got to
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: do that first. So whatever we announce sticks and we'll
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: take it through the election.
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: Well, speaking of crossing T's and dotting I's, should we
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: talk about climate change and energy minister Chris Bowen? He's
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: been blasted as a fraud after claiming on the ABC
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: last night he never bought into the green hydrogen hype.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Here's what he said.
• 20:58
  Speaker 13: I never quite bought all the hype on green hydrogen
• 21:01
  Speaker 13: at the top, but nor do I buy it at
• 21:02
  Speaker 13: the bottom.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: It's not dead.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: It does have a future.
• 21:06
  Speaker 13: It's not the answer to all the world's problems, but
• 21:08
  Speaker 13: it does have a role to play, including creating jobs
• 21:10
  Speaker 13: in Australia.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: Never really believed the green hydrogen hype, so he committed
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: $ 4 billion to a green hydrogen Head Start scheme and
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: more than $ 6 billion to a green hydrogen tax credit
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: scheme that he was never really that confident about. Here's
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: the same Chris Bowen spruiking Labor's commitment to supercharging Australia's
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: green hydrogen industry.
• 21:30
  Speaker 13: Under an Albanese Labor government, these jobs will be secure
• 21:34
  Speaker 13: because we'll be leading the global green hydrogen revolution. We
• 21:38
  Speaker 13: have a $ 225 billion pipeline for green hydrogen in Australia.
• 21:43
  Speaker 13: That's across 100 projects. Only Labor has the plan to
• 21:46
  Speaker 13: ensure that Australia is part of and is leading that
• 21:50
  Speaker 13: hydrogen revolution.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: Matt, the only thing more disappointing than green hydrogen is
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: Chris Bowen.
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: Well, before I get to Chris, James, I do just
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: want to reflect on the fact that 500 workers there
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: in Wyala are facing losing their jobs because of the
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: mistakes of Chris Bowen and this government. We're losing our
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: ability to make structural steel from scratch in this country
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: without a blast furnace of this kind. We won't be
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: able to make the steel from scratch that holds up buildings,
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: that makes our bridges, that rolls out our rail lines.
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: And it's an absolute indictment as a country, but especially
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: the country with the largest iron ore and coking coal
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: exports in the world, that we won't be able to
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: make structural steel. Now, in any functioning government and country,
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: Chris Bowen should be sacked for this incompetence. He should
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: pay the price. If 500 people have to pay the
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: price of losing their jobs, why does Chris Bowen continue
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: to have his job? Now, on his comments, I didn't
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: see those till this morning, and I spit out my
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: Wheaties about his claim that he didn't buy into the hype. Well,
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: let's just run through the facts here, James.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: You've played some quotes.
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: But not only did he spruik this, and it wasn't
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: just political spin about hydrogen, Chris Bowen and this government
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: have put $ 6. 7 billion to a hydrogen production tax incentive.
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: They put $ 4 billion to a hydrogen Head Start program.
• 23:17
  Speaker 5: They reserved $ 3 billion from the National Reconstruction Fund for hydrogen.
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: They gave $ 500 million for regional hydrogen hubs, one of
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: which was meant to be at Wyala.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: They're all dead.
• 23:28
  Speaker 5: And another $ 300 million to the CSIRO. So well over
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: $ 12 billion there of support. Apparently, according to the Labor Party,
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: $ 12 billion to hydrogen is not buying into the hype.
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: I mean, imagine if they had have bought into the hype.
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: What would the bill have been then, James? I mean,
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: how much more can you throw at something? and then
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: turn around and have the gall to say you didn't
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: buy into the hype and effectively buy that statement too.
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: Chris is washing his hands, taking no accountability for the
• 23:58
  Speaker 5: disaster that's unfolding at Wyala.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: It is an absolute.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: It's a disaster at Wyala and it's a disaster for
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: the country, what they're doing to the electricity grid. Matt Canavan,
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: always a delight to chat.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: All right, we're going to go to a break. When
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: we come back, President Donald Trump brushes off global fears
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: that AI could wipe out humanity as nothing but a hoax. But,
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: you see, being a little too casual regarding these warnings,
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: former White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer joins me after this. Well,
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: US President Donald Trump has insisted that fears artificial intelligence
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: will rise up and destroy the world are a hoax.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: His comments come after leaders of AI development in the
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: US warned the technology could quickly become a threat to
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: humanity and urged a slowdown in its development. But Trump
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: was having none of that, urging industry leaders not to
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: kill the golden goose. Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform,
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: Concerning AI, when in the history of business did anyone
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: see the leaders of an industry call for regulation that
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: if strongly implemented would drive them into oblivion and bankruptcy?
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: AI taking over the world, destroying humanity and all the
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: other things bad is a hoax. President Xi of China
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: just announced that China will be doing absolutely nothing to
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: stand in the way of AI.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Or its future.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: Joining me now is former White House press secretary to
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump, Sean Spicer.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Sean, great to see you. Is Donald Trump right to.
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: Be so dismissive of the experts? What does he know
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: that they don't?
• 25:29
  Speaker 12: I think what he knows, James, is kind of what
• 25:33
  Speaker 12: President Xi put out just a moment ago. They're not
• 25:35
  Speaker 12: going to stop anything. The question comes down to, are
• 25:37
  Speaker 12: we in America going to allow China to to advance
• 25:40
  Speaker 12: AI unfettered while we pause for a moment.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: So I think he's got a point there.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: However, I will.
• 25:45
  Speaker 12: Say to the first truth post that you put up,
• 25:50
  Speaker 12: he's absolutely right. And the way I look at this
• 25:52
  Speaker 12: is when business leaders who are potentially going to make
• 25:55
  Speaker 12: a boatload of money saying, we need the government to
• 25:58
  Speaker 12: help us, it's a clarion call for help. And so
• 26:03
  Speaker 12: I am not a big believer in government intervention, but
• 26:05
  Speaker 12: I do believe that when industry leaders tell you that
• 26:09
  Speaker 12: they're crying for help and they'd like something, you can't
• 26:12
  Speaker 12: just dismiss them. Now, I don't know that the answer
• 26:15
  Speaker 12: is massive regulation, but I do think the president and
• 26:18
  Speaker 12: Speaker Johnson, et cetera, should call these folks to a
• 26:20
  Speaker 12: meeting and see where things are. I mean, there's a
• 26:24
  Speaker 12: million rabbit holes that I went down over this weekend.
• 26:26
  Speaker 12: Is this a sigh up to some degree, the kid
• 26:28
  Speaker 12: that made the announcements work for Anthropic for four months?
• 26:31
  Speaker 12: Are these guys protecting market share? These are all possibilities
• 26:35
  Speaker 12: that we should explore.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: And I'm not dismissing them, anyone.
• 26:38
  Speaker 12: But that being said, it is worth taking a meeting.
• 26:41
  Speaker 12: It is worth doing this because on the off chance,
• 26:44
  Speaker 12: on the off chance that anyone is wrong on this,
• 26:47
  Speaker 12: we're talking about humanity. You cannot get that wrong.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: Is Trump simply calculating that, okay, AI may be a
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: great risk, but in Trump's view, the risk of China
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: with AI is an even greater risk?
• 27:02
  Speaker 14: 100%.
• 27:05
  Speaker 12: Every American should worry about China advancing on this. But
• 27:08
  Speaker 12: two things that I sort of stumbled upon this weekend.
• 27:11
  Speaker 12: Number one, China is equally concerned.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: They're a dictatorship.
• 27:14
  Speaker 12: And so the notion that AI could advance to the
• 27:16
  Speaker 12: point of potentially threatening that dictatorship is something that they
• 27:20
  Speaker 12: equally worry about advancement over there, right? We have different
• 27:23
  Speaker 12: worries in America. But I think if you're a dictatorship,
• 27:25
  Speaker 12: you do have to worry that the self-learning gets to
• 27:28
  Speaker 12: a point where it teaches the people in China how
• 27:30
  Speaker 12: to overtake the dictatorship.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: That's number one.
• 27:33
  Speaker 12: Number two is they're largely stealing America's technology. So if
• 27:36
  Speaker 12: we slow down, There's only so much that they can do. Again,
• 27:40
  Speaker 12: I'm not saying that we need to pause or do
• 27:43
  Speaker 12: any of this, but I do think we should be
• 27:44
  Speaker 12: smart about it. And that means sitting down with all
• 27:46
  Speaker 12: the relevant players, kind of getting to know what's at stake.
• 27:49
  Speaker 12: The bigger issue that I have, James, is most American
• 27:52
  Speaker 12: politicians have a hard time turning on their smartphone. Never
• 27:55
  Speaker 12: mind regulating AI. And I do worry that these guys
• 27:58
  Speaker 12: don't know enough about what they're doing that they could
• 28:01
  Speaker 12: over-regulate it, which is why I believe these calls to
• 28:04
  Speaker 12: get these folks in a room, have them do some
• 28:06
  Speaker 12: kind of board that's... Government sanctioned but self-regulating might be
• 28:11
  Speaker 12: the smart way to go.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: OK, let's talk about the 2028 presidential election. Obviously, it's
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: a while away, but already there's a lot of jostling
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: on the Democrat side as to who the nomination might be.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: California Governor Gavin Newsom has been considered a favourite, but
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: he's told CNN if Kamala Harris puts her hat in
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: the ring, he'll withdraw.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Have a listen.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: You're not even the only Californian.
• 28:36
  Speaker 6: No, right.
• 28:36
  Speaker 12: Yeah.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: You got Ro Khanna.
• 28:38
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Kamala.
• 28:39
  Speaker 12: Yeah.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know if she runs, but we'll see. I
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: know she's called around.
• 28:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: But I wouldn't run if she ran. If she runs,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: you will not?
• 28:47
  Speaker 6: Of course not. Why would I?
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: First of all, electorally, it's a gift from God for
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: everybody else.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: They enjoy the hell out of it.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Mutual assured destruction. It services no greater good.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: Sean Newsom is under investigation regarding his finances. Is this
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: a way of him creating an exit ramp so he
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: could get out of it with honor in the event
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: those investigations start to look problematic for him?
• 29:12
  Speaker 12: No, and that might be part of it, James, but
• 29:14
  Speaker 12: I think this is purely political. Gavin Newsom either knows
• 29:17
  Speaker 12: something that we don't know. I was intrigued when I
• 29:21
  Speaker 12: saw this pop because everything that Kamala Harris has done
• 29:24
  Speaker 12: early move-wise has suggested that she's leaning towards a run.
• 29:27
  Speaker 12: And I can't say him caring about what she does
• 29:31
  Speaker 12: or not. So one, I don't really take him that seriously,
• 29:34
  Speaker 12: that comment. Number two is there's a possibility he does
• 29:37
  Speaker 12: know something and he's trying to curb it. favor with
• 29:40
  Speaker 12: the Harris voters.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: How difficult would it be for, whether it's Kamala Harris
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: or Gavin Newsom, whoever it is that takes the Democrat nomination,
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: because on the one hand, you've got to denounce the
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: radical socialists in the Democrat Party, right? But if you
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: do that, you lose all the young people in the party.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: On the other hand, you can't really embrace the radical
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: socialists for losing the more established part of the party.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: It's a poison chalice for whoever takes it on right
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: now while they're so divided.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: To some degree.
• 30:13
  Speaker 12: Look, you can't be the nominee until you win the primary.
• 30:16
  Speaker 12: And I think that every candidate that jumps in is
• 30:18
  Speaker 12: going to do whatever they have to do to win
• 30:20
  Speaker 12: the primary. And that means saying whatever you have to
• 30:23
  Speaker 12: say to assuage the crazy nut job left. So they'll
• 30:27
  Speaker 12: say whatever they have to say and then try to
• 30:29
  Speaker 12: walk it back in a general knowing that the American
• 30:31
  Speaker 12: media will give them a pass.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Very good. OK, we've seen that. We've seen that before.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: You're quite right.
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: Before I let you go, America's got a few problems
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: around the world right now, fair to say. But it
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: might surprise you, Sean, to know who Trump considers his
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: most difficult problem.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Have a look at this.
• 30:49
  Speaker 15: I find Canada to be.
• 30:53
  Speaker 15: The worst country to deal with, the most difficult country.
• 30:56
  Speaker 15: With that being said, they're dying to make a deal.
• 30:59
  Speaker 15: I find Canada to be very, very difficult to deal with.
• 31:02
  Speaker 15: They're leaders, not the people.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: Why does Trump have such a low opinion of Canada's leaders?
• 31:10
  Speaker 12: I think that this is another pressure point to get
• 31:12
  Speaker 12: a deal. We're in the middle of renegotiating the U.S.-Mexico deal.
• 31:16
  Speaker 12: Canada trade agreement that it is up now for review.
• 31:20
  Speaker 12: I think he's trying to pressure the Canadian people to
• 31:23
  Speaker 12: put pressure on Mark Carney, the prime minister. Look, I
• 31:26
  Speaker 12: don't think that they're that difficult. I think in many cases,
• 31:31
  Speaker 12: he's probably found greater foes around the world. I mean, India,
• 31:34
  Speaker 12: for example, their tariff rates are crazy and they don't ever.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Want to talk about them.
• 31:38
  Speaker 12: But I think part of it is it's on a spectrum.
• 31:40
  Speaker 12: You believe you're going to get a better deal and
• 31:42
  Speaker 12: be able to negotiate better with Canada because you're your neighbor.
• 31:45
  Speaker 12: So all of this discussion, I think, is done on
• 31:48
  Speaker 12: relative terms. You assume that Canada is your good, longstanding neighbor.
• 31:52
  Speaker 12: They'll be easier to cut a deal with than, say,
• 31:54
  Speaker 12: some country halfway around the world. And when they become difficult,
• 31:57
  Speaker 12: I think that's what he's alluding to, is I can't
• 32:00
  Speaker 12: believe these guys aren't cutting a deal. Because the one
• 32:03
  Speaker 12: thing that President Trump is absolutely right about is that
• 32:07
  Speaker 12: this little tariff war that we have going back in
• 32:09
  Speaker 12: the midst of trying to negotiate USMCA reauthorization— is that
• 32:12
  Speaker 12: it definitely hurts the Canadian economy more than ours.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: Just really quickly, what do you make of the way
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: generally that Trump manages alliances?
• 32:23
  Speaker 12: The funny part about your question, James, is that he's
• 32:25
  Speaker 12: the same guy that he's been forever. He's a transactional person.
• 32:30
  Speaker 12: And you look at it both personally and professionally. If
• 32:33
  Speaker 12: you are someone that you can cut a deal with,
• 32:35
  Speaker 12: he'll cut a.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Deal with you.
• 32:35
  Speaker 12: If you're against him, he's against you. And then if
• 32:37
  Speaker 12: you come back to him and you can work on
• 32:39
  Speaker 12: a project. But he is completely transactional. And I think
• 32:42
  Speaker 12: that's true in foreign policy and in business.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's good insight to be able to understand what
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Trump's really trying to say when he says all manner
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: of things. Sean Spice, that's why we love speaking with you.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: I appreciate you joining me tonight.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you, James.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, stick around.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: After the break, One Nation wants migration slashed, but what
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: about the economic cost? And Pauline Hanson apologises for comments
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: on Indigenous Australians. All that and more when Barnaby Joyce
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: joins me after this. One Nation leader Pauline Hanson has
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: expressed regret for saying that Indigenous Australians were the most
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: primitive race on earth. Her apology came after Aboriginal senators
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: labelled the remarks racist and disappointing. Speaking with my colleague
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: Kieran Gilbert on News 24, Hanson clarified she didn't mean
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: Aboriginals were primitive now. She was talking about when white
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: settlers arrived in Australia. Nevertheless, she apologised for causing offence.
• 33:39
  Speaker 16: I regret saying that because I don't want to upset people.
• 33:44
  Speaker 16: That's not my intentions. That was my intentions.
• 33:47
  Speaker 6: To hurt people.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: Joining me now is One Nation MP and the party's
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: Treasury spokesman, Barnaby Joyce. Barnaby, you were out and about
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: yesterday trying to sell One Nation's immigration policy, which we'll
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: talk about in a moment, but those resurfaced comments from
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: Pauline Hanson would not have been particularly helpful yesterday.
• 34:07
  Speaker 6: Look, everybody at times should.
• 34:10
  Speaker 7: We reflect on what we've said and we should be
• 34:13
  Speaker 7: nuanced in a certain way, and I think it was
• 34:16
  Speaker 7: pretty admirable from Pauline. She's a very strong lady, and
• 34:18
  Speaker 7: for someone to sort of do a mea culpa or anything,
• 34:21
  Speaker 7: that's a good thing. I'm still waiting for a Prime
• 34:24
  Speaker 7: Minister to say that they fell off a stage.
• 34:27
  Speaker 6: That hasn't happened.
• 34:28
  Speaker 7: Still waiting for a Prime Minister, our one, to say
• 34:30
  Speaker 7: that they insulted the Japanese Prime Minister.
• 34:33
  Speaker 6: That hasn't happened.
• 34:34
  Speaker 7: But Pauline saw what was said probably from something long
• 34:38
  Speaker 7: before I joined One Nation and looked at it and went, well, yeah, okay,
• 34:42
  Speaker 7: that's not how I wanted it to come out and
• 34:44
  Speaker 7: that's not my intention and I can see that would
• 34:47
  Speaker 7: be hurtful. And she immediately apologised and that's I suppose
• 34:50
  Speaker 7: that's the difference between Pauline and our current Prime Minister.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about One Nation's migration policy. In that
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: same interview with Kieran Gilbert, Pauline Hanson said that while
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: it could cause even a temporary technical recession, One Nation's
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: policy would ultimately improve Australians.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Quality of life.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: She said economists couldn't be trusted. Here's her comments.
• 35:12
  Speaker 17: If you pull 750,000 people out, That will have a
• 35:18
  Speaker 17: negative impact on GDP. Are you saying, though, that people,
• 35:22
  Speaker 17: per capita GDP, people's.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Standard of living will improve?
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, I do.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: OK. But the GDP will come down.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: I do, it will.
• 35:30
  Speaker 16: You know, I'll tell you what. Do you trust these economists,
• 35:32
  Speaker 16: what they come out and say?
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: Because I don't.
• 35:34
  Speaker 16: I don't believe they always get it right.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: These are similar to comments you made last night on
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: the ABC, Barnaby, which I showed at the top of
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: the program. What do you say to business people who
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: are worried One Nation's cuts to immigration are going to
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: leave us short of workers?
• 35:50
  Speaker 7: Well, the first thing I'd say to economists, with all
• 35:52
  Speaker 7: due respect, if you believe your prognostications and your enlightened
• 35:58
  Speaker 7: view of the future is bulletproof, do you promise to
• 36:02
  Speaker 7: resign if you get it wrong? Because that means the
• 36:05
  Speaker 7: people who do the four-year forecast and the federal budgets
• 36:08
  Speaker 7: every year, they'll all be out of a job because
• 36:10
  Speaker 7: they're never within a bull's roar. I remember years ago
• 36:12
  Speaker 7: people saying, oh, the debt will go up and then
• 36:14
  Speaker 7: it'll come back down again.
• 36:14
  Speaker 6: Well, that was wrong. It just went up and went
• 36:16
  Speaker 6: up even quicker.
• 36:17
  Speaker 7: The power prices would go down.
• 36:19
  Speaker 6: Remember that prognostication?
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Well, that was wrong.
• 36:21
  Speaker 7: I mean, all this sort of ethereal idea that you
• 36:24
  Speaker 7: go after these magical people and if you have their imprimatur,
• 36:28
  Speaker 7: then you are blessed to go forward with your policy. No,
• 36:30
  Speaker 7: it's actually the Australian people who decide what policy should be.
• 36:34
  Speaker 6: And I, you know, I am an accountant and I am.
• 36:37
  Speaker 7: Probably the most sceptical about of having been in finance
• 36:42
  Speaker 7: for a while, people's forward cash flows over five years
• 36:45
  Speaker 7: because they're usually willful thinking for the purpose of gaining
• 36:49
  Speaker 7: a loan.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Fair call.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of people would concur with that.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: All right, speaking of last night on the ABC, you
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: were involved... In an interesting and at times heated immigration debate,
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: one of the guests was lawyer Nayadol Nouan, who came to.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Australia as a refugee.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: And she's done very well here, named as one of
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: Australia's most influential women back in 2019, even awarded an
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: Order of Australia. But she recently announced she'd be returning
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: that award and renouncing her Australian citizenship because of racism
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: she claims to have experienced while living here, which is
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: interesting because last night on the ABC, She said there
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: was no such thing as white culture and she had
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: this warning for Australians.
• 37:32
  Speaker 14: We are entering a world in which Western countries are
• 37:36
  Speaker 14: no longer the centre. We're seeing that across the board.
• 37:39
  Speaker 14: So Australia is in the South Pacific area and then
• 37:43
  Speaker 14: our neighbours are people that are going to be watching
• 37:46
  Speaker 14: very well how Australia treats migrants in this country and that,
• 37:51
  Speaker 14: I think, it's going to have real impact on safety,
• 37:56
  Speaker 14: security and the economic prosperity of Australia.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: I want to play you this next part, Barnaby, because
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: this is the bit that I was fascinated by.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Have a listen.
• 38:06
  Speaker 14: A lot of the conversations that tend to occur, it's
• 38:09
  Speaker 14: about who should be here. Those of us who are
• 38:12
  Speaker 14: in communities who are people of color or non-white, we
• 38:17
  Speaker 14: know how that discussion tend to progress. It says that
• 38:20
  Speaker 14: people who look like me or who are not white
• 38:24
  Speaker 14: cannot stay in Australia. unless they assimilate into the Australian culture.
• 38:29
  Speaker 14: Australia is a multicultural society, but it is a monolegal society, right?
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Multicultural, monolegal.
• 38:36
  Speaker 14: You can have different cultural identities in Australia, provided that
• 38:40
  Speaker 14: you are able to.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Follow the law.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Barnaby, I agree with her that immigrants should follow the law,
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: but that shouldn't be the qualification.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: That should be the bare minimum.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: My concern is what happens when we have law-abiding people
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: who despise Australian culture, because a democracy can be legally
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: dismantled without anyone breaking the law. If you get people
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: from radically different cultural traditions gaining political power and then using.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Our democratic institutions.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: to fundamentally change the character of the country entirely within
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: the rules, then what's left of the culture that created
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: those rules?
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: This is why assimilation, in my view, is so important.
• 39:20
  Speaker 7: Yeah, well, you know, I don't agree with what was said.
• 39:24
  Speaker 7: I believe that saying you operate under one legal system,
• 39:27
  Speaker 7: that is not enough. I don't believe in multiculturalism. I
• 39:30
  Speaker 7: believe in an Australian culture, an Australian culture. It has guardrails,
• 39:35
  Speaker 7: and within those guardrails is the way you must act
• 39:38
  Speaker 7: for the for the temperance of the society and for
• 39:42
  Speaker 7: the comfort of those other people who live in that
• 39:45
  Speaker 7: Australian culture.
• 39:46
  Speaker 6: Including Nidal, because that is how... I don't know.
• 39:51
  Speaker 7: No-one... I think it's... I don't think people care what
• 39:53
  Speaker 7: you look like at all, to be quite frank.
• 39:56
  Speaker 6: I think there might have been a time in the past,
• 39:57
  Speaker 6: but I don't think it is now. It's how you act.
• 39:59
  Speaker 7: It's how you walk up to people that people concern
• 40:02
  Speaker 7: themselves about. And you can be as white as me,
• 40:04
  Speaker 7: and if you're a pain in the backside, people will
• 40:06
  Speaker 7: not want you in Australia.
• 40:07
  Speaker 6: And that's absolutely fair enough.
• 40:10
  Speaker 7: And I think the other thing is we see it,
• 40:12
  Speaker 7: and let's call for what it is, entryism, and we
• 40:14
  Speaker 7: see it with people who have a desire to basically
• 40:18
  Speaker 7: go from a Western type of culture to an Islamic
• 40:20
  Speaker 7: type of culture where they profess a belief to the
• 40:25
  Speaker 7: extent that they want to change society to their purview
• 40:28
  Speaker 7: of things, and that is to the detriment of obviously
• 40:31
  Speaker 7: other people of other faiths or no faith at all
• 40:35
  Speaker 7: or other, or, you know, not really worrying.
• 40:39
  Speaker 6: About it at all. And that's called entryism. It's very
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: well written up.
• 40:42
  Speaker 7: And that starts from an absolutely legal perspective that they
• 40:46
  Speaker 7: arrive at that completely within the law, but then they
• 40:50
  Speaker 7: progress to a position where they can change the society
• 40:53
  Speaker 7: around them. And once they have and once they've changed
• 40:56
  Speaker 7: the proceedings around them, you can't change it back. If
• 40:58
  Speaker 7: you want to see a good example of that, then
• 41:00
  Speaker 7: England is a very good place to start.
• 41:02
  Speaker 11: Yep.
• 41:03
  Speaker 7: In sections of it, and we don't want that in Australia,
• 41:05
  Speaker 7: and we should just call it out straight.
• 41:06
  Speaker 6: Away and say, oh, well, you don't like people of
• 41:09
  Speaker 6: the Islamic faith. I didn't say that.
• 41:10
  Speaker 7: I said if you want us all to profess in
• 41:12
  Speaker 7: a belief that is guided by the Islamic faith such
• 41:15
  Speaker 7: that it progresses towards Sharia law, well, then, yes, I
• 41:18
  Speaker 7: don't want that.
• 41:19
  Speaker 6: That's something I don't want. I'm allowed to say that.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: That makes absolute sense. I'm sorry to cut you off.
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: We've got to go to a break, but I appreciate
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: your time this evening.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: When we come back, the contradiction at the centre of
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: Sydney Sweeney's latest ad that has divided opinion.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: My fired up panel. Join me after this.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: There's a wonderfully revealing contradiction in the outrage over Sydney
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: Sweeney's sports betting advertisement. Haven't feminists spent years insisting women
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: should be free to make choices about their own bodies?
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: How does the expression go? My body, my choice, right?
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: Well, not so fast, because when Sydney Sweeney chooses to
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: use her body and sexuality to advertise a sports betting company, well,
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: suddenly the progressive sisterhood is reaching for the complaint form.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Here's the offending ad.
• 42:09
  Speaker 6: Thinking of sports?
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: Prove it.
• 42:19
  Speaker 11: Novick is just sports. So they wanted a show.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: And here's Winter Olympian-turned-Teal MP Zali Steggall's response.
• 42:30
  Speaker 18: She's pushing that old trope to lure men into gambling.
• 42:34
  Speaker 18: At the end of the day, this is about gambling advertising.
• 42:37
  Speaker 18: But I was also, you know, it raises that point
• 42:40
  Speaker 18: that it brings women's sport back to the sexualisation and
• 42:45
  Speaker 18: the objectification rather than celebrating women who are strong, fierce, brave,
• 42:51
  Speaker 18: powerful and do amazing things in the sporting arena.
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: So I think there's a couple of arguments here. The
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: first is whether sports gambling should be advertised so aggressively.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: Legitimate debate. But the second argument is much more revealing.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: How is having an attractive woman in a sports advertisement
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: insulting to women who actually play sport? Can a woman
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: not simply be attractive and use that attractiveness commercially if
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: she so chooses? Sweeney's not being exploited. She's not being
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: dragged onto a stage against her will. She appears to
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: have made a commercial decision about how she wants to
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: present herself. And I was under the impression that was
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: her choice, not the group's.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: And what of the.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: Suggestion that putting an attractive woman in a sports advertisement
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: somehow diminishes actual female athletes? The idea that men need
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: to be carefully prevented from seeing attractive women lest they
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: lose all interest in female sporting achievement is It's not
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: particularly flattering to men. Aren't blokes capable of appreciating the
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: attractiveness of Sydney Sweeney and the skill of a Caitlin Clarke?
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: Joining me now is the Executive Director of the Samuel
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: Griffith Society, Mia Schlitt, and former Labor MP Michael Danby.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Mia, I'll start with you on this one.
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: Has Sydney Sweeney set women's sport back decades?
• 44:09
  Speaker 19: No, I don't think so, James. And look, I think
• 44:11
  Speaker 19: this is exactly the kind of faux outrage that a
• 44:14
  Speaker 19: lot of conservative women are sick of because it really
• 44:16
  Speaker 19: plays into this idea that these feminists are all for
• 44:19
  Speaker 19: standing up for women, they're all for strong women, they're
• 44:21
  Speaker 19: all for women, you know, who stand on their own feet,
• 44:23
  Speaker 19: two feet financially, so long as you are the right
• 44:27
  Speaker 19: type of woman who fits into their category, which is
• 44:29
  Speaker 19: quite ironic considering they still can't define what a woman
• 44:32
  Speaker 19: actually is.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: But I think this, you know, the.
• 44:35
  Speaker 19: Feminists were after Sydney Sweeney ever since it was rumoured
• 44:37
  Speaker 19: that she was a Republican candidate They've turned their back
• 44:39
  Speaker 19: on her ever since, but I think good on her.
• 44:40
  Speaker 19: I mean, I know she holds equity in this company.
• 44:43
  Speaker 19: Her job is to sell the brand, and she certainly
• 44:45
  Speaker 19: gains that attention.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: Michael, why are men apparently being treated as though they're
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: incapable of appreciating a beautiful woman and a great female
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: athlete without confusing the two?
• 44:57
  Speaker 20: The Teals would like us to abolish sex, comedy on TV.
• 45:06
  Speaker 20: This woman, Sweeney, is a very astute businesswoman. She's in charge,
• 45:11
  Speaker 20: as Mia said, she's got equity in this company. She
• 45:13
  Speaker 20: knows what she's doing exactly. I'm more worried about the
• 45:18
  Speaker 20: politics of some of the teals. Does everyone in Australia
• 45:22
  Speaker 20: want to be a grim member like Zali Stegall, only
• 45:28
  Speaker 20: framing her version of what female sports stars should be?
• 45:32
  Speaker 20: Can't there be any difference in people? And I think
• 45:36
  Speaker 20: some of their MPs, Sophie Scamp, for instance, is very
• 45:40
  Speaker 20: radical on the Middle East. She's introducing Miliband kind of
• 45:45
  Speaker 20: legislation into the parliament. I have real doubts that in
• 45:49
  Speaker 20: leafy liberal Macquarie that they really know what some of
• 45:52
  Speaker 20: these people who are making these comments are up to.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: Well, Sydney's sweetie might be responsible for the moral decline
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: of Western civilisation.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: Not really.
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: But Victorian Premier Ben Carroll is definitely not responsible for
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: the half a million potholes that are tormenting the state's motorists.
• 46:08
  Speaker 13: Not at all.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: The Premier was questioned today over the horrid conditions of
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: the road network, highlighted over the weekend when 71-year-old motorcyclist
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: Peter Mason died after hitting a pothole. Ben Carroll was
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: asked how many potholes had been filled since he promised.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: to fix the situation. Here's what he said. Well, I'm
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: the Premier, not the Roads Minister.
• 46:30
  Speaker 13: I've directed the funding to get in there and do
• 46:33
  Speaker 13: the maintenance.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: Mia, a tragic event. What do you make of the
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: Premier's comments? Is he just passing the buck? Is this
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: his I don't hold a hose moment?
• 46:43
  Speaker 19: Well, we know everything that the Premier is not. We
• 46:46
  Speaker 19: know he's not Dan Andrews. We know he's not Jacinta Allen.
• 46:49
  Speaker 19: We know he's not the Rose Minister. And we know
• 46:50
  Speaker 19: he's not responsible, apparently, for anything in this state to
• 46:54
  Speaker 19: actually improve anything here in Victoria. I think we all
• 46:57
  Speaker 19: know that, look, potholes are a big symbol for how
• 47:00
  Speaker 19: well the state's doing for the state of health. And clearly,
• 47:03
  Speaker 19: Victoria is not doing well. And I'm starting to worry
• 47:06
  Speaker 19: that as someone who's not responsible or capable, apparently, of
• 47:09
  Speaker 19: doing anything, that he's not quite the right.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Man for the job. Michael, you're in Victoria, as is Mia.
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: The government's pledged huge amounts of money to fill in
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: these potholes.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: How bad is the network?
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: And, I mean, Victorians have been crying about this for
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: a long time. Just for those of us not in Victoria,
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: help us understand how bad it is.
• 47:33
  Speaker 20: You're mean, James. You've stolen my line about not holding
• 47:36
  Speaker 20: the hose. It's very bad. I mean, my local.
• 47:42
  Speaker 20: Train station Ripon Lee they're constantly fixing up the potholes
• 47:47
  Speaker 20: in front of the railway line so it's quite bad
• 47:53
  Speaker 20: on country and regional roads it's even worse now poor
• 47:56
  Speaker 20: old Noah Carroll is still holding the hose he's not
• 48:02
  Speaker 20: Jacinta Allen of the socialist left or Dan Beijing Andrews
• 48:07
  Speaker 20: but he's stuck with all of their policies and all
• 48:10
  Speaker 20: of their legacies and I'm I feel sorry for him.
• 48:14
  Speaker 20: He's going to go down in a screaming heap, I think,
• 48:16
  Speaker 20: at this coming Victorian election.
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he certainly is stuck with all of the legacy
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: of previous governments, which he was a part of.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: So there you go.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: Mia and Michael, thanks for joining me. Appreciate your time.
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: That's all I've got time for.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: Do not go anywhere. Up right now, Shari Markson.