Latest / WoT Spoilers / An Empty Ink Bottle & For What Has Been Wrought - Towers of Midnight chapters 12 & 13 - EP552

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An Empty Ink Bottle & For What Has Been Wrought - Towers of Midnight chapters 12 & 13 - EP552 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Before we start,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: we do have patrons to do. You actually sent me
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the screenshot, so I know we're ready to do it.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: You only you reminded me yesterday instead of right beforehand,
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: and I was.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Like, oh, yeah, that's right, professional decent.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: We actually thanked our patrons pretty recently, and then I
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: saw we got a little bit of a pop in patrons,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: so I said, let's go ahead and thank them again.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Yay, more patrons. We love it.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: More patrons, We love it you guys, thank you for
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: continuing to support us. You know, I was thinking to myself, like,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: we have the live listeners, and we have you know,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: a couple of people send us emails. I see a
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: couple of people at cons, but like, it's such a
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: small percentage of the people who are listening and I
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: know that and the people who are giving us donations
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: on patron. So when something like this happens where it's like,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, we get a couple of people in a row,
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  Speaker 2: it really reminds me that there's like a silent majority
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: of you out there listening. Yeah, totally totally, and or
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  Speaker 2: people who have contributed in the past, you know, or
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: people who have talked to me in the past. And
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: it's like, because in my head, I when I'm talking,
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  Speaker 2: I'm picturing a room of like fifteen people, like I'm
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: in front of a classroom, right like, But there's like
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: two thousand people out there downloading this.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Podcast something like that. It's more than I could keep
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  Speaker 1: trying something like that, for sure.
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  Speaker 2: And it varies quite a bit around that number, depending
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  Speaker 2: on you know, who's binging and who's keeping up and
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: stuff like that.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: So to the ranks of people that we have thanked
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  Speaker 1: over the years and support us, we now add Morgan
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: hect Woodrow. Very cool name. Thank you, Guias. Guys, it's
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  Speaker 1: a fun name. Maln Larson. That seems like an I
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: said dynam I'm pretty sure there's a milin isid.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: M Gabriel Macetas Mastas Maistis. I'm sure that is incorrect,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: but let's go with Masis.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: We made it a tempt yes, thank you very much.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: And last, but certainly not least is a name that
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: is definitely not their full legal name, Soco. But there's
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: some zero's in there.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's zero's instead of o's. Butacau Zaco, Yeah,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: which is cool.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: It's fun to say, Zaco, So thank you for that.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: A nice eight bit mage going on as your screen.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So thank you to these five new patrons, and
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: of course to all of our patrons past and present.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: You keep us going.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: So today we're here to discuss one of the shortest
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: chapters of this book. I think chapter twelve and empty
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: ink Bottle.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: It's a real damn short that's real damn short. And
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: then the chapter after that is a little longer, but
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: really exactly one thing happens.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's also a relatively short chapter, right, Like
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: it's uh, maybe half the length of some of the
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: other chapters that we've booked at. So like these together chapters,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: these two chapters together are about four thirds the length
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: of a normal chapter.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: It feels like, yeah, and just really not a lot
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: happens in them. It's a very brief slice of an afternoon. Basically,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: it's not even a whole day. These two chapters together
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: are one slice and.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: In time we are jumping way ahead again, right because
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: this is after What's crazy is the events of these
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: books are after the end of the book, because the
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: end of the book is parent sees matt On the
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: mountaintop and this is days afterwards Rand.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Sorry'd be really funny if Parent and Matt saw each
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: other up there, but yeah, it's absolutely bonkers that. Yeah,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Rand is coming back from the mountain here early in
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: the book, and the book's climax is Parent seeing him
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: pre this.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very confusing and.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Something I think the first time I read through didn't
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: really click with me. I was literally like, oh, because
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: until I didn't realize how early I thought Parent stuff
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: was happening at the same time Rand stuff was happening.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: It's not until you're in the dream and you get
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: that sync up on the mountaintop that you're like, wait, what,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: he's that far back in timeline. I did not realize exactly.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you thought maybe it was a little de
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: sync or what, but no, oh no, we are like
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: so far back.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Well, especially the jumping back and forth between the two timelines.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: It's not like you get all of parents timeline and
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: then rans right, there's no catch up.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Very inconsistent, and I can see why they did that.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: They were like, oh, if you got all of Parent's
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: story right at the beginning of this, which is a
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: slow burn to say the least. This would be a
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: really tough book to get through. So I can see
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: how editing they went. Let's sprinkle in some rand stuff
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: even though it is asynchronous.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Could have just had less of the parent stuff.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: But then how else would you get to fifty seven
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: chapters in this book, one of the most chapters of
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: out of any book.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: That's why they're so short.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: And it's one of the reasons why we've been really
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: pushing the two chapters per episode, because there are as
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: many as double the chapters, because like I think some
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: of Jordan's books even have had like thirty five thirty
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: seven chapters, right, yeah, so yeah, last five five per episode.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Donkill is such an enabler, He's like.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Go faster, guys. Listen, we've got about a year and
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: a half less left of content and we're gonna end.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: We're gonna end this sucker the series right right about
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: ten years and we're not in a big rush to
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: beat that, and we're I think we're gonna try and
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: time it that way. So all right, speaking of which,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: let's get into it.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, Chapter twelve an empty ink bottle, and our symbol
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: is kad Swain's hair ornaments. Men sat on a window
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: ledge in the stone of Tyr, enjoying the warmth. The
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: afternoon breeze was refreshing, laden, though it was with humidity
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: and the sense of the city below. The tyrants have
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: been calling the weather chilly, which made men smile. How
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: would these folk respond to a good and door in winter?
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: With snow piled up at the sides of buildings and
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: icicles hanging from the eaves. All that could be said
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: of the weather lately was that it was less sweltering
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: than usual. The warmth that men was enjoying, however, had
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with the heat in the air. Sunlight
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: shone upon the city in the stones courtyards. Defenders in
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: their striped sleeves and breeches, kept stopping and looking up
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: toward the open sky. The clouds still lurked on the horizon,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: but they were broken around the city in an unnatural ring,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: perfectly circular. The warmth that men felt was not caused
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: by the sunlight. How can you just sit there, nineve
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: demanded Men turned her head. The window was wide open,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: and the walls of the stone were thick. Men sat
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: on the window still, with her knees bent, her bare
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: toes touching the wall. On the other side, her boots
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: and stockings lay on the floor beside a stack of books.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Ninive paced the room. The Stone of Tears had withstood
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: sieges and storms, wars and desolation, but men wondered if
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: it had ever survived anything quite like Ninive Almira in
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: a peak, the dark haired Eyes to Die has spent
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: the last three days stalking through the corridors like a
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: crackling thunderhead, intimidating defenders, terrifying servants. I love that little
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: description of Ninive, like her fury at being frustrated might
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: be enough to shake the stone down. It's a good
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: outside view of Ninive and just.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: How terrifying she is right like she is a force
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: of nature for everybody around her, Like she's always like,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: oh what was me? Do I know what I'm doing?
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: And it's like, yeah, you know what you're doing, Like
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: everybody else, everybody else is doing what you say, except maybe.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Cod Sway and Kat Swayne is taking her seriously, which
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: is Kat Swayne's equivalent of obeying.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, what other person have we seen her take seriously?
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Sourrialia so sorely.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, literally, Ninive is elevated to sore Lea's status. Katherine,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: it's almost just a small step before right sorely is
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: still better.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: That's true that she did view her almost as more
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: than an.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Equal, right, whereas Ninive is simply worthy of paying attention
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: to yes.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: And I do like this chapter because it gives us
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: a chance to react to Rand's zenness, right like, I
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: do like that there's a payoff. This is something we
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: didn't get with the cleansing. Despite everybody seeing the cleansing,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: nobody went, oh, this is better, right Like, we haven't
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: really gotten that. Catharsis maybe just a little bit in
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: some of these books, but really like, this is an
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: opportunity for Rand to come up and be like, oh, like,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: look at me, I am glowing with the halo of goodness,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: and I can.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Now sending down off the mountain with the billowing clouds
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: and alien lights behind him.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: You know, we get to enjoy the character's success. We
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: get to see like, no matter what happens in the
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: last battle, he has won. And there's a quote in
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: here where he says something like the time has passed
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: in which he could avoid the conflict, right, because now
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: I have essentially ascended to something more like he's not
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: gonna drive me crazy. He's not gonna have me kill myself.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: It's one of the quotes that was chosen by Pants
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: for the by doctor Pants for the art The Shadow
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: made its play for me and lost. Yeah, something else
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: like it's yeah, it's it's a good it's a good.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: You're right. I hadn't thought about the fact that this
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: is the payoff we should have gotten after the cleansing.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I was just annoyed that the chapter had so little
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: to it, But you're right, what it does have to
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: it is the kind of resolution that we've been looking
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: for for a long time.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Doctor Pants, that is the good summary quote.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not every chapter has a really good quote. This
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: chapter very much. It's like, well, obviously, right, obviously, Jesus
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: rand is what we're calling him, right, He's he's returned.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: He's been gone for three days hmmm, and he's resurrected
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: as a new man. Right. This he really he went
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: up to the mountaintop and came down with the you know,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: ten commandments, Like there really is this.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Whole I mean that was Moses, but you know, but I'm.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Saying, like he is all of those things, right, This
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: is massic figure from and like the Bible in you know,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: because it's.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: A legends fate, legends.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Fate, the myth. Myth becomes the Bible, the Bible becomes
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: this thing. Right he he is all of those legends
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: in the same way that he's also Zeus, in the
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: same way that parent is also kind of Zeus.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: But you know, I'm I mean, none of them are
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: running around nearly as much as Zeus. I do not
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: think they have the prolific inability to keep it in
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: their pants. That is a defining characteristic of Zeus.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Oh you should have waited for the Outriggers. Those would
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: have just been straight porn.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I'll accept that.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Head can just Ran bouncing from woman to woman to
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: woman having multiple you know, the three wives having multiple children.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Saying that is Zeus's entire person cannot keep it in
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: his pants.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, but think about how many children Ran is
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: gonna have, right, Like aviend is gonna have kids, Elaine's
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: gonna have kids. He's gonna have six kids, just off
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: the right off the bat, and he's still got a
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: whole nother body to abuse.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: It's true, that's true. That is true. Yeah, anyway, But
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: the point is he's being very messianic, and he's getting
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: a lot of page time to do that in and
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: it is satisfying, Like the Renaissance painters and composers knew
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: what they were doing when they put together these big,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: elaborate images of how this vibe should be. Like it's
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: not not satisfying, Like it's satisfying for a reason. It
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: was designed to be very gratifying. And Sanderson is like,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: let me just revel in it. And it's good.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: It's good, And I mean, you need a Mormon to
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: tell these kind of stories. He knows, I mean, he's
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: got a lot of very familiar with the exactly right,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: and he knows how to evoke it in a way
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: that he's.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Coming from a craft a workshop where this sort of
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: thing is crafted at an industrial scale. He's gonna be
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: good at it, right.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: I love the little bit vignette of nine discovering iced tea.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Men being horrified at the concept of iced tea, which,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: like you know, I am personally not a huge fan
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: of iced tea, but I'm not a fan of tea broadly,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Like I really only like chai, and that's just I
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: don't know if I'm gonna put ice in my beverages.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be coffee, but I just want coffee more.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: As I sit here and drink a cup of tea.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: It's hot, but yeah, I love my tea. I love tea.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I'm mid on tea. How do you feel about iced tea?
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: It's wonderful in the South, sure, because you are sweating
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: so much and you want something, you know, and it's
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: a good way pre soda to get, especially if you
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: had sweet tea, right Like, you're sweating out salt and
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: sugar and so you can get some of that back
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: in this tea. And I like the caffeine that comes
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: with tea. Coffee's caffeine can be a little harsh. It
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: can leave you a little jittery. I can leave you
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: a little you know, go go go. I feel like
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: the caffeine that comes with tea gets processed a little
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: more gently and it's a little more of a just
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: a gentle stimulant, it doesn't, you know, like just for example,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: I don't usually immediately have to use the restroom after
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: I drink tea, unlike coffee. Right, So there's it's just
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: it gives you some that stimulant without quite that much stimulant.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, I would agree. It doesn't kick as hard,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: and that's why I prefer coffee, right.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: So that's that there are reasons that you might prefer
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: the stimulants a little bit more stimulant. Tea, the ADHD
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: maybe a little bit.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Stimulants work very well for me, yes.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know some people, there's times when I
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: find that I don't need that kind of.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Kick, Okay. Yeah, so and yeah, I guess that's super
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: valid because I really like iced coffee in the summer
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: when heat is a problem, like, it totally makes sense
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: to have your stimulant beverage. You can just kind of
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: clutch and move through your life with being coal because
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: it's hot out. So yeah, I guess it really just
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: comes down to a preference on if you like tea
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: or not. Okay. So, Ninieve is freaking out that Rand
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: is gonna be leveling cities in the days he's unsupervised,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: whereas Men knows that for the last three days he's
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: just been vibing. Right, She's not worried, she's not anxious.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: She's like, he'll come when he's ready to come. It's fine.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not taking you to him, but I guess if
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: you're gonna literally explode, I'll promise to take him, to
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: take you to him in a few days. But it's
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: not gonna be relevant because he's vibing and he's gonna
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: come back after three days because he's Jesus right.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Because men felt the whole transformation. She felt him go
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: through the angst, she felt him overcome, She felt the light.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: And now this is the warmth that she's basking in. Right,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: it's not the sun, she keeps saying, it's not the sun,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: but it feels like the sun. And that's just the
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: warmth that is the veins of gold coming off of
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Rand through the bond, right, And so she's totally chill
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: because she knows that Rand is totally chill. Yeah, she
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: sensed that change, saw dark out.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, she is like floating on cloud niners blissed out.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: While Niniva's like, the last time I saw Rand, he
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: was a darth Rand and I still haven't gotten military
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: support for my husband, So like, how can you be
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: so calm? And it's like what here you do all
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: the class.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: It's like you really gotta try this drug?
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: And nine he was like, I have actual shit to do, right, now.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: And so there as they're talking, Serene comes in and
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: basically says Alana has gone. She's vanished right from her chambers.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: No sign of a gateway.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Here's the isode that justifies you being confused about Serene. Yes,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: it's literally Serene. It's not spelled Serene, but it's pronounced Serene.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: So when you were like Serene, I mean, here, she
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: is Serene. Why why would you have been you know,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: why would you know? It totally makes sense?
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally right, right, Yeah, because it's pronounced like the
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: words word that means calm.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: When you saw the actual word on the page, of course,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: your mind went to the isodyte because it sounds the same.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: And I listened to the audiobooks more than I read
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: the books these days. Right, so.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Exactly, so there's the isidyet that justifies that little mistake.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: But yeah, she shows up to say plot twist, Alana's
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: gone missing, which is you know, important, ish, I guess.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: So how do you think she got out? Because I
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: don't think they answer that in this chapter, right, they
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: sort of get she there's no sign of a gateway
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: unless she invented flying. They do say, unless she invented flying, right,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: which makes me think it has something to do with flying,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: but I have no theories.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: It's like Verared was able to hand her like an
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: invisibility potion in that note or something. Right.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we didn't really talk about that, but she
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: got she's a note that they find has the red
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: wax seal.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: There's no actual evidence of the note itself, and it's
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: like the information somehow allowed Alana to get out more easily,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: but that doesn't actually make any sense with what we
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: know about the magic of the world. So my thought
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: is that she maybe just knew how to do like
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: an invisibility weave, just like a bending light sneak out
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: kind of thing, or very new.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Of a secret passageway in the wall that allowed her
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: to like sneak out, Like I don't I mean, yeah,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: something to do with flying, just because that's the red
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: herring fuel on the page.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I don't think we ever get
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: an answer. I don't think that this would be her
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: getting kidnapped, though, I think she left under her own power,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: whatever the mechanism was. I don't think that she gets
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: abducted and taken into custody for the last battle cave
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: scene until later, but I don't know. Maybe maybe she
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: wasn't maybe she didn't leave, maybe she was taken.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: I think she was taken. I think that this is
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: another one of Varren's letters, arriving a little too late,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: in the same way that Camberlon got invaded. I think
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: that the letter was a warning to Alana to get
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: out there coming for you. You were tied to the dragon,
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: and she was taken by someone who didn't channel the
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: one power, but channeled the true power. I think you've
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: got a forsaken I think is Shammel came in and
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: kidnapped her, and that's why she ends up in the cave,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: and that's why they sense her in the borderlands. She's
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: a little bit north of the borderlands.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: That makes so much sense because.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: You have a hard time determining distance. You know direction
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: really accurately, but you have a hard time with distance.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: So if they sense, oh, she's in the direction of
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: the borderlands, well what if she's just a little bit
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: further and she'll goool.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: This is her actually getting captured. So you think Varren
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: didn't facilitate the capture. Think Varen was attempting to subvert
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: the capture and it just didn't work out.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: And that's why they took letter, because the letter would
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: have warned whoever found you know, says basically, you're gonna
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: get taken. Run. You know. It's a theory, right, Like,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I don't have a lot of direct evidence for it
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: other than this statement that A, she's in the borderlands.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: B we know she does eventually get kidnapped, and this
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: is the last time we see her before she shows
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: up in the cave. Right, We'd have no idea what
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: happens between then and now, so one could assume that, like,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: she gets kidnapped now.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Also, I feel like unless they learned to fly is
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: often a line used when it's actually a kidnapping. I
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: feel like this is perhaps, yeah, a thing that like
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: often when a person is missing, not because they had
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: their own ability to get at It's like that's usually
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: the detective throwing their hands up, like, well, I guess
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: they must have learned to fly then, and it's like
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: now they were taken. I had never thought that this
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: was the point at which she got kidnapped, But that
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: does tie up all of the loose ends the most neatly,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: with the most conservation of plot. So I'm inclined to
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: believe it. I mean, we don't need evidence. It's just
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: like a lot like Aukham's razor, like well that fits
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: with no loose ends.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: The only loocends is her stuff is still there or
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: isn't there. She packed her stuff up and took it right,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: so then that that to me then indicates that she
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: went willingly or that.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: She was about to get away, and it was literally
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: like a five minutes sooner and she would have gotten out,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: but like because she just didn't take Varn's letter, she
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: didn't like get around to opening it soon enough, like
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: it could have just been a photo finish kind of
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: thing where she actually was ready to go, and so
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: the alibi was even easier for the kidnappers than it
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: would have had to be, or the kidnappers know that
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: it will be easier for them to get away with
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: it if they take all of her stuff. Maybe possibly,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: but I like the idea of a photo finish where
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: if Alana had just taken the letter a little bit
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: more seriously and gotten out ten minutes sooner than she
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: would have been fine. I prefer that as a heart
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: pounding head canon.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: And I wish we had some more evidence right, I
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: just I have nothing else to go on in terms
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: of what happens between now and the last battle when
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: she shows up in the cave ready to be.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Killed, send us your head, Canons.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: And like, also, where's her order?
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah? What did happen to.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Ellen? Let's let's do a quick that. This is where
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: the show has confused the hell out of me, because
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: she's got such a bigger role in the show than
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: she did in the books. This is the TV show wiki.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Damn you, God, damn it. What happened to referencing the.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Books change their names?
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I got nothing, So he just kind of ceases
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: to exist at some point, Like what, we can't just
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: lose a whole warder.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Let's see i've on an Owen Owen all right? So yeah,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: he's last mentioned in Winter's Heart. He accompanies Alan as
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: they travel from Kyrieen to Formatting. Although it is not
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: mentioned directly, we can assume that i've on travels back
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: to Kyrieanne with Alana and then Tear where they stay
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: at the Stone in Knife of Dreams. But he like
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: hasn't to mention since when it's heart that.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Is some bullshit. Just as for the fucking Wards God, ah,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna assume that he was hovering around Alana
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: so protectively that he got killed and whisked off and
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: dropped in a pit when she got kidnapped. Here bailfired
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: something something he's he's disposed of at the point she
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: gets kidnapped. I'm gonna assume he's with her until the
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: point she gets kidnapped, at which point he gets disposed of.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: But then, like, why isn't Rand feeling any of this
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: if her warder is dead, if she's being kidnapped, Like
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: you feel like Rand would like feel her panic, her fear, right,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Like yeah.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe they had to just give them both
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: a bunch of work routine and put them in a
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: weird place where they're think they're okay until yeah, because
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Rand never once says, oh, one of my eyes to
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: die is having a bad time. He just ignores her
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: so completely that he doesn't notice her going through existential
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: panic and fear and dread at the loss of her
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: actual worder. Like, that's a really weird plot hole. First,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: we're losing a warder. Now we're completely ignoring Alana having
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: the worst fear for life. That feels like a plot hole.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Her popping out of nowhere in the cave just feels weird.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, my only maybe in shale Goul the rules
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: work differently, and she's been there. She gets kidnapped to
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: show Gooul this is a.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Knoll field around shale Gooul is a weak ass exponer.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: But you know, it kind of fits with how Swan
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: didn't notice her warder getting knifed in the back right
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: we look four, So you know, I guess that's consistent
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: in this world.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: The women are so into themselves they don't notice their
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: men dying.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: No, the author doesn't care enough about the warder isisidie
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: relationship to remember it exists all the time. It's only
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: there for plot reasons sometimes, which.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Is funny because it's gets so emphasized in the show.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Well maybe Raife was also annoyed at the disrespect the
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: same and was trying to like offer a correction.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Anyhow, anywhow, there's a funny line here where in Nive
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: this whole time, she's been going why is Alana important?
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Why is Alana important? And then finally Codswayne goes because
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: if the Shadow has her, they can find Rand and
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: then Ninive goes, We've been fools. There should have been
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: one hundred maidens guarding her. And it's like you were
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: just complaining that she's not important and you don't care.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Well written, Well done like that. The hypocriticalness, that turning
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: on the dime, that gas.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Lighting shouting I need shouting exactly.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well done, well done. That's she's she's proven wrong,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: and instead of admitting she's wrong, she pretends she had
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: the opposite to take the whole time.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Such a nice to die.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well done. So god Swayne gets some tea and
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: it tastes good because of course Rand is returning and
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: he is preventing everything from going bad.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. She also mentally chastises herself for thinking that
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Ninive might be lying to her. She's like, no, Nieve
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: didn't send the note because Naive prize herself on being honest,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: and if I distrust her, then I'm gonna be really paranoid. Yeah,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: as paranoid Rand. And then yeah, she braces herself for
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: the bitter tea, which is a lovely little setup for
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: drinking the tea. And it's not bitter. It tastes good.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: It tastes better than it possibly could because Jesus Rand
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: is in the house.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: It's not better. It's bitter. Right now, it's not bitter, it's.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Better, exactly exactly, And just like that, Men and her
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: maiden attendance are off down the hallway to greet Rand.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: And then because the chapter breaks are weird and arbitrary,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: we go right continuing the scene, like, honestly, this could
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: have been one chapter, right, like, because it just Men's
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: POV the whole time, right, yeah, or at least through
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: the chapter break. It's it's one minute.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: To another, and I don't need to like do it,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: We don't even need to do a read in it's
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: it's just, it's just And we switch to another chapter
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: for what has been wrought with the ideal spears, because
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: we have an important ideal moment. But yeah, it's just
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Men leaves the room and then we pick up with
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Men having left the room, running towards Rand with the
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: AEEL and everyone's excited to have him back.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Men's like, God, damn, I put some weight on
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: sitting here studying these books.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: You know, a college degree will do that to you.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: The freshman fifteen, she's like puffing and off and.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Like she has not been focusing on her diet or
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: on getting enough exercise. Well, she's been plowing through these books,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: getting a PhD in triple time.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: I can just see the donuts, the pastries like piled
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: up on one side, the books next to them, right,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: her and Loyal chilling out like study buddies.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, she's outpacing the eyes to die only because
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: the eyes that I refused to look silly. But it's like,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: it's totally makes sense that, like, yeah, you're not going
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: to be in tip top ideal athletic shape given that
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: you've been literally studying for like fifteen hours a day.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: That totally makes sense.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: And I like that that. That's where her character goes
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: is into the library.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Well, yes, fashion icon and a bookworm. We love it.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: So in comes Rand wearing his Beggar's cloak because he
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: you know, his tinker's cloak, I should say, and I
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: like this this line where he says later, I'm no
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: longer blind, right, because this is that was the end
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: of Beggar. You know, he wasn't he was kind of blinded, right,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: there's that symbolic blinding by the fireball, right where everything
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: was kind of fuzzy. But that's not the blinding he's
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: talking about it. Was blind to the corruption and the
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: evil around him, and now his eyes are open to
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: that well, and.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: He was blind to his full humanity, right, he was
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: blind to real pain, he was blind to real love.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: He was blind to all the realness. And yeah, that
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: cut him off from being able to do auto detect
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: on all of the bad guys.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Your dot's turned red, all right, easy to tell. And
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: now the air is distorting around him. But she's like,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: instead of that dark halo, She's like, is that a
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: trick of the sunlight, because he's kind of got this
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: halo around him, right, is this aura around him?
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a positive distortion rather than a darkening shrinking
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: in like black hole energy. Now it's a radiative, glowing
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: energy and with it comes new viewings.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, and it really mirrors the things in his brain, right,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: because before there was darkness and now it's wrapped with
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: the glowing light.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, almost like she's seeing a manifestation of the war
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: for his mind that the Dark One and the Reverse
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Power are doing.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Right, So visions an open cavern gaping like a mouth,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: blood stained rocks. That's him walking up the shale ghoul, right,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: his blood.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Which is not new. That's an old viewing, like the
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: blood on the rocks of shale Ghul Is and that's
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: in the Korea's encycle Like, that's not a new one.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: It's just a more high fidelity vision of what we
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: already know is coming.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: And seeing the cavern, knowing that he's going to go
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: into a cavern, right, Like I don't think we knew
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: that before necessarily.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: But did we really think it was going to be
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: anything other than a cavern?
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Right because we've seen all the forsaken enter that halway
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: right with the ceiling that closes right like, that's you know,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: we know where shale Goul is.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was all and the eye of the world
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: was in a cave. Like, clearly this battle is going
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: to be in a cave, in a mountain.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Dull, in a cave with scraps, I'm sorry. The next one,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: two dead men on the ground, surrounded by ranks and
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: ranks of trollicks.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: The moment of the body swap, that.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Would be my assumption as well. Is rand and interesting
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: that it's two dead men, but I guess, yeah, they're
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: both dying at one point.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the bodies are both very much at the edge
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: of death, right, Rand like, Morden comes out holding the
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Rand body. The Mordan body comes out holding the Rand body,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: but they both collapse and look rather dead. And then
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: just I figured the ranks and ranks of trollicks is
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: the fact that the battle is still actively raging even
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: at the moment of the climax.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: And then a pipe with smoke curling from it, which
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: is and.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: That is new. That is a completely new vision that
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: has not existed before. And as we all know, that
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: is the final moment of Rand on the page as
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: the book closes, is him lighting a pipe with his mind.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: And that question, right, like, so, I think that's one
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: of the reasons it makes that moment even more iconic,
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Right is this there's that little bit of foreshadowing of
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: it is an important moment.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's not some sort of weird symbol about coziness.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: It's like, no, he's going to have weird magic powers
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: as the books close. That's what's happening. And I will
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: remind everyone that I got to go on Dusty Wheel
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: and talk about speculations for what was up with the
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: pipe at the end, and I will put a link
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: for that in the description because I think it was
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: a really fun conversation. Being on Dusty Wheel is always fun,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: and I was very honored to get to do that
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: particular looney theory deep dive.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, can you give us a summary of what you argued?
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I cannot. It was like two years ago. I have
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: no idea what I said, but I know it was
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: a really fun conversation and many people said that they
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: really enjoyed it, so I encourage everyone to go watch that.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: So apart from that discussion, do you have a favorite
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: theory about what's going on with Rand in the pipe?
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: I think the theory I like most, and people can
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: go watch the video and tell me if I'm wrong,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: But I think the theory I like most is that
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: he's connected to tell I run Riod. Now, he's just
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: a little bit part of the dream existing in the
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: real world. I'm pretty sure that's what I settled on.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: It's what I like now anyway.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, and I like that that that kind of blends
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: in with the whole till round Reod is the dark
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: One's prison, right because if he fixes, if he recreates
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: a portion of that, because he fixes the whole right,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: So he's.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Got the one saw in his eye, right, he's holding
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: that spot in himself. So anyhow, so.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, those are divisions, none of none of them are
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: a big you know shock to us. Right, that's the
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: last battle and what happens afterwards, right, like exactly.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: The battle is happening now, right, She's seeing a vision
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: that says, this is how the battle's going to go
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: down now that we know what's happening. And she looks
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: at him, and he looks a lot older. She's like,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: he has crows feet, he looks ancient in his eyes.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: There's all this like there's this moment of did he
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: get swapped out with Luce Theren essentially? And no, he
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: just super aged like really fast.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: Well, I can see wisdom and also just like you
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: know the way presidents age over four years, only faster, right,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Like I can see Ran like looking very haggard, because
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, he hasn't been sleeping. He's really relied on
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: his worder bond to keep him going and sleep only
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: a couple hours a night. Like he's been going one
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: hundred percent of the time. Every day. He's fought in
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: you know, death defying battles over and over and over again.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: He's dealt with his guilt, he's dealt with pressure, he's
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: dealt with manipulation, right, like, and in two years. This
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: is all in two years, most of it in the
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: last like six months. You know. It's one of those
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: things where he's like you look at old pictures of like,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: uh oh, what is that a six year old coal miner? No,
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: he's fifteen, Like.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Right, that's right, right, yeah, absolutely all that.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: But then also the fact that like now he has
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: the memories of four hundred years of being Louis Theron
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: and they have integrated. And I do like this this
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: moment where Min is saying, was this the same man?
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Had the Rand she loved been stolen away? Replaced with
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: an ancient force of a man she could never know
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: or understand? Had she lost him? After all? Because I
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: think there's this moment where you're like, oh my god,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: if this ancient person and Rand of the same person,
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: does Rand sort of taken over by this person? This
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: lewis theren who existed? Who was this king? Who was
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: this you know, ice diye? And is the farmer gone? Right?
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a legitimate moment because he went over some
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: kind of massive crux, you know, and it's a reasonable question.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Is the reason he's sur is because there's this foreign
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: entity who's taken over? Right? I think that's that's a
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: real question to ask and a real possibility. Right, This
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: idea that like the crazy voice in his head has
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: taken over is not an unreasonable one.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: It was an option, yeah, just not when he took.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: But then he smiles and he's back to being you know,
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: the boyish rand that we know in love from the
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: early books, right, Like, this is the rand that we
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: fell in love with, who would you know, wouldn't kill
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: a woman and who cared about his friends, And.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Though this one will kill a woman because he understands
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: that men and women are equally in need of being
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: killed sometimes.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, but like that's sort of that innocence, right,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Like that is is back, right that and the innocence
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: is the wrong word. But the belief that things can
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: get better, that things will work out in the end.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the hopeful soft sheep herder boy is that everyone's
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: been saying he's in there somewhere, right, even I need
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: in the last chapter was like he's in there. I'm
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: just afraid he's not coming back. And it's like, no,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: he's there. He's more himself than he's ever been, right,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: He's come around on the spiral and has so much
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: more experience, but is coming back to himself in a
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: really meaningful way. And then yeah, Min runs up to
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: him and says, how dare you make me wait for
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: three days? And he says, I was just existing, which
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: is like such a mood, right, that's what a vacation
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: should be, a chance to just exist, not needing to
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: do things. I mean, sometimes a vacation of doing things
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: is great, but like I totally get the need to
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: just sit and stare at the river for three days
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: like that is absolutely a real thing that real human
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: beings need to do sometimes. And yeah, it's a total mood.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you just need to take three days to just
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: be completely disconnected.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: He's like, listen, I was tripping.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, look, look there was more than apples growing in
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: that field.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: I thought they I thought they were edible mushrooms. They
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: were certainly edibles.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Any mushrooms edible.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: He just wants at least once that's like your parachute fails,
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: you know, the rest of your life to figure it out.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: So true, Yeah, so true.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, Rand even says he felt a Lona go
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: and that she went north, And it's like if he
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: felt her go but didn't feel her panicking, that does
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: suggest that she was drugged or under her own power
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: or not aware that she was being kidnapped, because the
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: subterfuge was really good.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: And it's possible that she went up the borderline up
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: to the borderlands thinking she would accomplish something and then
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: that's where she was taken, right, Like she could be
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: an RFL doing something.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: That was my old assumption was that she got herself
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: out of there. But once you really put me to
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: the question of like, but how did she leave, then
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: it was like, well, I guess kidnapping. But I've always
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: assumed that, yeah, she figured she was gonna meet him
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: in the borderlands with some kind of a pre assembled
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: force organized as a peace offering.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: I just have no way of explaining how she got
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: out of there, right, so she physically sneak out and
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: then do a gateway somewhere, like it doesn't make sense to.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Me, but greens are clever, so I totally could see
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: her doing some D and D shenanigans to like just
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: bend some light and open a window and not use
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: channeling in the big way, but use channeling in the
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: little way. That would be a very sandersome thing to do.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: But like I said, as far as I'm aware, we
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: don't get any answers on that. But we'll keep an
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: eye out to see if there's someone captured somebody in
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: airfl right, Like, if there's some maybe offhanded mention that
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: we can make a connection there.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, and yeah. Then here's the line
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: that you were trying to reference earlier, the other one
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: aside from the one that got used in the chapter icon.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: But the time when it the dark one could silence
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: me quietly, and therefore wind has passed, the confrontation is assured.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: That's the vibe. Now we're doing this, we've tipped over
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: the edge.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: And the scream that begins the avalanche has been sounded.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: That's a really interesting line to me. Which scream is
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: he talking about? In which avalanche? Like that's really I
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: don't really as a metaphor, fine, but is he what
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: is he referring to there? Like just the inevitability of
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: the confrontation, right, Like.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, if we're gonna try to be literal about it,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I think the scream is his full throated laughter at
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: the end of the last book, like the first one
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: in a long time, like a full belly laugh coming
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: off at the top of the mountain. We're going to
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: try to be real literal. I think that's the quote
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: unquote scream that begins the avalanche. Either that or it
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: is the scream of frustration, the dark one let out
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: when rand started laughing.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Either way, it's the laughter. I think that moment of resolution.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: But it follows the line that time when he could
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: silence me quietly, right, So it seems to be his.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: It has to be his scream.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And that laughter is really what reverberates through the
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: rest of his experiences, laughter and tears. Right, he rediscovers
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: that great vagus nerve stimulator of using your voice fully
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: and completely. And I mean that's a scream. It's happier
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: than a scream in many ways, but it's still a
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: loud noise that comes out of your face.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: And he's no longer yet when he could silence me quietly,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: and therefore when like that, the it's almost like silence
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: me quietly, it's that that voice of hope, like he's
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: broken out from Darth Rand, Like there was that almost
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: as though the voice in Rand's head Lewis Thearren had
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: taken over and the insane man in his head had
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: taken over, and this was the little quiet voice in
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: the back of his head screaming, and that was going
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: to get silenced. And he broke out from behind the
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: barrier of the dark one.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Right, the disconnect, the iciness, the distance, all of that
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: is gone. No, now Rand is here and he is
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: kicking and screaming and going to spit inside Blinder's eye
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: right Like he's not holding himself back in some weird
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: dissociative state. He's present and that's why the Ayeel are
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: so jazzed. The a Yelle can see that presence in him.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: I think the wise ones later call it embracing death.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: He's just this is what they were waiting for. They
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: could see that connect and rigidity in him before, and
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: this is the moment they've been like, all right, you
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: finally have your head screwed on straight.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Finally in the same way that like he had to
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: learn Agwayne had to learn to embrace pain. Yeah, right,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: Like there's this this embracing pain, embracing death, realizing it's
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: something that like just because that is inevitable. Right, Pain
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: is inevitable, death is inevitable. It shouldn't ruin your life.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: It shouldn't ruin the rest of the time you have
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: and what you have to enjoy.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Nothing matters, So everything matters, right right, right, it's positive nihilism.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Ruark calls it. Basically calls him a meager ling, which
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: is like someone who avoids danger, a.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Stupid rat that can't learn from its mistakes.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah I can't, yeah, basically, yeah, yeah, it won't avoid danger.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: I should say, it'll run right, like we're headfirst in
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: because he's been avoiding his guards. Right, this is the
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: whole I think we've talked about this a lot, where
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: he like makes this pledge that he will keep maidens
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: with him, and then he keeps dodging them, right, he
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: keeps leaving them behind. There's that whole thing where the
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: head of the maidens before Sulan, Sulan like broke this
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: was going to break the spears, and he stopped her,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: and then he's pledged to be with her, but then
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: he's still left them behind, right, Like, I mean it's
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: still like I didn't fix the problem, and so now
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, I've been doing that. I will never
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: do that again. Like I have reached the point in
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: my journey where I will not leave you ever again,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: not of my own choice, not without informing. And if
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: they can sent bringing maidens as a guard.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: And then Ruurka lays down the hammer of an apology
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: involves actual acknowledgment of the wrong and changed behavior. There
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: will be restitution, there will be repair. It's like the
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: whole apology, the whole entire apology. Like you can promise
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: all you want, but like the actual apology is going
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: to involve some toe as well as some ge.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I think they do. Do they beat him again?
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: I forget exactly what happens.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think they do something more
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: elegant than beating him, because he's all mature and stuff.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: But I think something happens. I don't recall what it is.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: It's not beating. I'm pretty sure.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: I'm like, mmm, I wouldn't put it past him. Let
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: me do a quick check. Yeah, I don't. I don't
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: see what the payment is. I don't see how your
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: stores the toe. I'm not finding that anymore.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Huh, Well, maybe him and Ruark just figure it out
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: later somehow, Oh, is it part of the Dragon's piece?
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Maybe no, that's Avienda is the reason why the AEO
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: and the Dragon's piece, but I don't know. Anyway, he
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: makes a future promise to deal with his toe, and
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: that's enough for the iel to be like, Okay, you're
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: committed to this apology and it's not just I don't
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: even know, but Ruark is Ruark, so it's fine.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I don't have any The last thing I
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: have about this is he promises he will repay the toe.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: But maybe, yeah, I feel like the Dragon's piece is
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: part of that, Like that's his toe to the is
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: like creating this piece for them in the future, right.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: I feel like the way he writes them into the
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Dragon's Piece factors this in Avianda insists on adding them
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: to it, and then I feel like the Toho's them
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: is incorporated. But I don't know. I might be talking
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: out of my ass. Yeah, but yeah, I just love
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: that Rurke is like this, promising to change in the
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: future is not restitution for what you've done in the past,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: Like you gotta do something about that too. Like again,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: apologies are complicated machines. They are not just words, and.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Then Rand sort of says, here's a list of things
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: I need to fix. That's one of the things I
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: need to fix. Here's a bunch more, right, And I
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: almost feel like that's somewhere. Sanderson has this checklist of
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: like things I need to get done before the last battle,
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: and I need Rand to just be like, I'm gonna
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: get all these things done really quick in a row,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: because otherwise the last battle can't happen.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: Yep, I completely agree, and.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: I need to get there with the next like fu chapters.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to have Rand just list them off
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: and knock them out, either dispatch somebody or go do
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: them himself really quick. So he said Arshma to meet
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: with the Borderlanders and say, hey, I will accept your
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: terms and meet you in formatting and I will, you know,
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: let you slap the shit out of me.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Right, I'll meet my toe.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Essentially, And then he has to go meet with Agwayne.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: He set up this whole meeting with Aguayin and but
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: first he has to go to aer Doomon and fix
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: the mess he left behind there with all the lack
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: of food.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Right. Right. He also scoops up Darlin to organize some stuff,
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: brings kad Swain over to forgive her and pardon her
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: and apologize.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: He sets men off to study calendar and figure out
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: how to use that and last battle and how that's
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: like how he's like I and that's I think the
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: most important one, right.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I do like his political suaveness with the
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: like oh okay, maybe well, Min points out that he
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: shouldn't announce that the is is a dired divide, and
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: he yes, okay, let's say that Agwayne succeeded Elaida and
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: then if you know, you know, and otherwise face can
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: be saved, right right, Otherwise.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: It's a direct secession one after the other. She was
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: just elected a little before Elida resigned, that's all. Yeah,
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: I don't need to talk about the exact timeline of
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: how long a Qwaine's been ambuln. Yeah, it was Suan,
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: then Elida, then the quaen Yeah yeah, yeah, straight secession
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: no forks.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah then Nineve asks about getting together help for Land,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: to which Rand feels real pain. Like right, Min has
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: the sensation of Rand having a fully human experience of
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: emotional pain, as he says today, nev, I understand that
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: I have been putting that off too long. No, that's
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: not the plan I'm making right now. But like, give
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: me five more minutes. I am getting to that. I
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: promise I am getting to that.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: He's not there yet, he's still writing.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Fortunately he still has a couple more people to
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: pick up before he's going to get to Tarbin's gap.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: And he starts. He's apologizes right to cod Swain, which
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: is great, Like he's actually like, yeah, I was under
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: a little bit of stress and she's like too bad, Like, yeah, bitch,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: give him a little bit of slack.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean there is that little detonte where he's like,
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: you know, this was just a minor inconvenience and she's like, bitch,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: if you think being in a heavy hood in this.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: Fucking weather, it's pretty fun.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: A minor inconvenience that you need a lesson in contrast,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: but it's like.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Your eyes ada, you don't, you can ignore the heat, right,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: So that's it is a pretty minor convenience.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sarcasm though. They're having this like fun little
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: advisory advisy, Like there's humor there, there's rapport. They're going
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: to go back to a much better relationship than they
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: had before. And then he attempts to explain the lesson
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: that Kat's been taught him, and I still don't buy
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: it it.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you tried to manipulate me, and you failed horribly.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: But in that failure you have shown me something which
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: is literally like by manipulating, by trying to force my
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: father to do something to me, you manipulated me and
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: show me that I'm still a person.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, sure, I feel like Xanderson is stretching so hard
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: to make it work, and it's just not working for me.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: I know he's a tall man, but I don't think
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: his arms can stretch quite that far.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: But the sentiment is right, Rand's not a weapon. The
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: ashaman are not a weapon.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good point. I just really don't think
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: that this clumsy and ridiculous Katswain situation was remotely necessary.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: You can't explain it away. And like he literally also
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: was like she says, you can't let the pressures of
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: life drive you, and then he says, well, that's how
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: you make a sword. Also, I'm not a sword, Like,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: which is it? You can't have two sword metaphors but
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: opposite points in the same statement, Sir, that makes no sense.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: So I find this whole attempt to make cat Swains
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: existence be justified here to be unsatisfying and inadequate.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: I'm not disagreeing with you at all. Dead silence on that.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, yeah, should.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: I leave all that silence in the edit? And just
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: like normally I take that much silence out, I think
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna just leave it there for.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Okay. So then here's a moment. He says, I've been
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: informed the White Towers holding mattin Stepaneus. You informed him
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: with that? Was that in his letter from Varren?
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Probably? I think so?
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: And then the person he wants is somewhere in the
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Caroline Grass, right, So this is not mattin Stepaneus, isn't
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: it the King of.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: Radmon, Right, That's who he's looking for.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: Right, And so he was informed, Hey, mattin Stepaneus was
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: taken by the White Tower chances are And I'm sorry
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: I'm blinking on his name.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the guy that a Giralda wants to serve.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: And he doesn't exist on page very much, so I
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: don't remember his name.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Because he's been kidnapped for the last like three books.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: For the entire series as far as the timeline is concerned.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: Olam al salam.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: There we go, that's what it is. So yeah, he says,
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: the White Taber's in the habit of kidnapping kings that
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: don't have a lot of stuff to do on the page.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: So can you go find the one that will make
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: rodal Itcelda happy when he survives the last battle and
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: we can give him his king and his kingdom back
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: and there we go.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and King Oslam he went just basically he went
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: disappearing after the war in Falma.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, all the way back then.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, back then, so he was probably Yeah, he was
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: just kidnapped and taking the by you know, allied his orders.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: So some red probably took him and they were just
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know if they were stuck in the Caroline grass,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: if they set up in a little hot and we're
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: just keeping him safe, right, Like I think they just
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: got lost. Like I just think it took him like
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: a year to travel. They just travel and try and
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: travel cross country to the White Tower and just took
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: him forever.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, something went wrong, But it's not like dark friendery
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: or anything. There's no hint of like a black Ajia plot.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: It's just shit happens on the road.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the snow it got snow, and they couldn't
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: go anywhere, right, because they're in the middle of nowhere, right.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: Think about being in the Midwest, in the country, in
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: the middle of the snow, right, no plows nothing, right,
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: eight foot feet snows. You're not going anywhere, right.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: It's like, I guess we're gonna get really good at
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: playing poker now exactly.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: So the Rand then finds him.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: It's a great moment where I Toalda just is so
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: happy to get him back, and his mind isn't melted
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: by grand all or anything, and it's it's a good moment.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: Of course, then he's immediately killed in the last battle
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: and Oralda has to take the kingship.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Now that is before the last battle, isn't it. But
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: then I Toalda takes over the Kingship in his friend's
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: memory rather than because his friend was never found, right,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: And it's it's a different dynamic.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: And if he was found after Arteralda through the kingship,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: that would be awkward. Right.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: So now we have really the final event, well, the
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: second to last event of the chapter, which is Rand
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: using his spidy senses to suss out dark friends.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: And his glowing you know, power of holiness. Right, like
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: the dark friends, he blinds them because he is such
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: a shining beacon of goodness that they literally cannot see it.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: Like they see that glow, right, that distortion that we
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: talked about earlier is so bright to them that it's
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: blinding them. And the further into the dark you are,
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: the brighter it is.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: It seems right to men who is on the side
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: of goodness and is close to Rand, the brightness feels
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: like warmth and comfort and joy and bliss, and she
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: can look at him through the distortion with no pain
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: and they as committed dark friends. Yeah, it's like a
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: cave creature being hit with a ray of sunlight.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: It's no good or too near a bonfire.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. It's like, yeah, just trying to stare at
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: the sun directly, you can't do that.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: Near the end of the line where Amon kept golam
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: it ran then looking away, right, it's like looking at
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: the sun. He can glance at it, but it's too bright.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Rand just lines up the nobility and just walks
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: down the line and yeah, Wyraman is like squinting the
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: closer and closer Ran gets and Anniyella is on the
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: far side of Wyraman also squinting in his shadow.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: Almost more so. I think she's deeper in the dark
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: than he ever was.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but she's at the farther end of the line,
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: so he doesn't see her at first, right, right, But yeah,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: I do wonder which of them was a dark friend
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: first and most seriously, and probably her. I think that
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: seems on brand that between the two of them, he's
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: going to be a weak, sauce, little bit pipsqueak even
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: as a dark friend.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: Where Amon kind of reminds me of land Fear and
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: that he is only a dark friend for his own gain. Sure,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: and like really isn't a very good dark friend because
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: he keeps looking at he keeps fucking up dark friend
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: plans because he's looking out for himself.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: I like that interpretation of him. His incompetence is born
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: of greed and self centeredness, right, rather than his evilness.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: And he's still incompetent, right, Like, no matter what side
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: he's working for, he's.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Because he's he's just incompetent as a person, right, Like, yeah, alignment,
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: I like that. I like that. And now Nayella is
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: incompetent as a front and is actually extremely good at
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: what she's doing as a dark friend, doing subterfuge, dark
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: friendly things and looking like a simpering fool as a smokescreen.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Where Mom was always an the obvious dark friend. Ayanna Yella,
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: I didn't know really think about. Right, there's that moment
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: where she almost she talks about stabbing Rand, right, but
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: he's like half unconscious and she's got the knife.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: Out, and he's in a bad way in terms of
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: treating her countryman like it's a good person could like
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: someone in Discord just the other day was saying like,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: I don't think Eagan Padress was a dark friend. I
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: think he was a good man who was paid to
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: kill Rand. Because from where a random guy is standing,
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: Rand seems pretty freaking awful, So it would not be
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: a hard sell to give him a bag of gold
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: and say all your problems will be fixed if you
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: just take out this man who's clearly making the world worse.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I could totally see, and.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: I could see the dark friends don't always have a
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: bag of gold on them, right. They're doing it because
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: they're ordered to, and they are they have to because
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: that's what being a Dark Friend means, whereas he has
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: a bag of gold, so that his only motivation is.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: The pay right. And so yeah, Aniyela was very good
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: at seeming like that kind of person who was just
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: needed for the regular old fashioned degreed and it's like
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: turns out actually much like Grandall that was a front.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: So but he lets them go and basically says, you know,
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: spread the word that the Dark Friends can't hide. It's
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: it's time for the sides to separate. No more treachery.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: Note where you're going to simplify this battle. You cannot
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: stop it. You cannot subvert it from the inside. All
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: the Dark Friends get the fuck out, you know. And
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Agwayne did it in the White Tower, right, We're having
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: a purge. It's purge time, right, get out or die,
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: And then you're going to have to be on the side,
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: you know, literally line up against us. And I think
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: that's really important that there is this purge before the
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: last battle, or else you're going to have, you know,
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: advantage of the Dark Friends being able to stab people
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: in the back. And I think they thought they were
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: going to have that.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they still manage some, but a lot get
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: blown out because of this. Just it's like when the
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: sun ignited and like made all the planets like coalesce
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: out of the dust. It's kind of that Rand is
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: ignited and like you get your planets or your dust
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: that is getting the hell out.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: And it's why the four generals aren't dark friends, right,
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: Rand would have detected Bank. You know, they can't be
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: the dark Friends, but they can be under compulsion. And
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: he didn't that he missed that because he didn't see
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: them after the compulsion started.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: Right, because you know, you got to start with it
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: a simple assumption that people are either good or bad,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: and the concept of being corruptible against one's own will
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: isn't even on the table, but it is on the
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: table because we're dealing with three thousand year old evil.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: You know. It's one of those things where I'm like,
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: I'm glad that compulsion got used in the way that
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: they're like, you could use it more. I think that
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: because it is such this incredible power, and it was,
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: especially in the War of Power, is described as one
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: of those things where you had people who were spent
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: years under compulsion and did horrible things without knowing it.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: So like I think you could almost have used it more,
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: but it goes back to really, only the Forsaken are
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: good at it, and there aren't that many of them left,
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: so they use it on the generals and hope that
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: that's good enough.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Right exactly, And then we get to the last event
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: of the chapter, which is resolution from last book and
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: a very sweet moment and a very important expression of
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: healthy masculinity as Rand gets to reunite with Tam and
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: not make it weird and murderous this time.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, just one more thing about where mom. They wander off,
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: and he sends three Maidens of the Spear after them,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: Lee and two others. I couldn't find evidence that Lee
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: was a fan insert, but I'm almost but it's got
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: They don't die horribly then, No, that's a good point.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: But I also highlighted that name as like, hmmm, could
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: be fancy, that could be a person because they've never
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: been mentioned before and then mentioned.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: And they never mentioned again. So just like I be,
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: I want to be a you know, I'm sure someone
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: wanted to be made to the Spear mentioned once, you know,
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: and they got mentioned. So that's my head canon is
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: that that was a fan. So let us know, if
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: you find any evidence for that one way or the other.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: I can't accept it. But yeah, Rand goes up to
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: Tam and does this thing with the stairs where he
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: like literally lets Tam be taller than him, Yeah, and
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: like clings onto him like a small child hugging his parent,
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: which is just again, like such a healthy expression of
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: like the vulnerability you need in a leader and healthy
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: masculinity where like the need for a father figure is
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: not weakness, and where tears are not weakness. Like nobody
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: is uncomfortable with the fact that Rand is crying in
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: this moment. Everyone's like, well, that seems appropriate given the everything,
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: and it just is so cathartic. Like yes, it's very Mormon,
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: and it's very formulaic, and it's perfect and auto tuned,
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: but it is satisfying. Also, this needed to happen, and
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: like Kat Swayne was trying to make it happen, and
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: that's what triggered rains of gold, Like it would be
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: weird if Tam and Rand didn't have this moment, given
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: how the last time happened.
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: And you know, TAM's just so tam about it. He's like,
• 58:09
  Speaker 4: it's okay that you fucked up like you got up
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: and picked yourself up and you're gonna try again. Like
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: it's okay, buddy, And it's just so Tam.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: It's just the dad you want, right, Like that's the
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: because he's he was such a good dad in the
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: beginning and we haven't been like the reunion had to happen,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: and then Rand fucked it up and that was really
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: important that he fucked it up, and now he needs
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: to repair it, right, Like that whole circle is a
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: really important part of Veins of Gold, and so yeah,
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: I really do like it. And then he's like, oh,
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: I want to introduce you to my girlfriend, and TAM's
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: like I've met her, like we've been hanging out for
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: a couple of days, Like I know, but I didn't
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: get to introduce you. So that yeah, it's very cute.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: It's very cute. It's family, right, Like that's that's something
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: that like Rand hasn't really had. He gets he's been
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: by himself as this loaner, and now he's introducing his
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: father to his wife. I'll say wife. They're married at
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: this point, right, Yeah, they've been married. So yeah, if you.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: Consider the bond to be equivalent to marriage, then yes, yeah, exactly,
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: And it's just so like, this is what Ranch has
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: been thinking he had to cut off. This was the
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: first thing he thought I had to cut off. The
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: second he thought he might be the dragon reborn. He said, well,
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: I gotta pretend I don't care about my family, Pretend
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: I don't care about having a family. I have no
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: loved ones. And now here he is in full view
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: of everyone saying father, this is my wife, and just
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: having that full connection to the family experience and not
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: cutting himself off from it, because that's really what it's
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: all about. As humans were social animals, family is actually
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: the core of what makes our little brands go pit
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: or potter.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: And this is the moment where I really wanted a
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: reunion between the three boys as well, and we never
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: get that. That's probably my biggest regret, is like, and
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: the reunion that we do get, which is coming up,
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: is terrible.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: Also, I would have loved it if Tam had gotten
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: to meet his other two wives.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's a little bit of that.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would have been nice. And to have Tam
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: go like completely take it without even blinking. You're like, oh, yeah, yeah,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: my son has three wives. That's not a thing I'm
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: going to be shocked about at all because I'm tam
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: and I accept my child. But uh yeah, we get
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: one good reunion here, and it gives us a template
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: to extrapolate the reunions we should have had.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, this, that's that's why I have a fondness in
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: my heart for these chapters. These these chapters don't make
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: me regret reading them like some of like the occasional
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: chapter does. No.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: They're short and brief, but they are sweet.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: They are sweet, they are heartwarming. They're a good reaction
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: to this. This ran coming home to his family, his
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: grouchy aunt who's you know, bullied him, his you know, father,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: his his wife, the i eel, the people who are
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: around him and care about him, and he gets to
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: basically apologize and say I'm going to do better, and
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: then he starts to do better and and and and
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: I think, even for us as readers, that's so important
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: because we have been fighting Darth Rand for such a
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: long time to be like, come on, be smarter, see
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: the patterns around you, support the people who are trying
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: to support you. Stop lashing out right, Like, I really
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: really like these chapters for that reason. So even though
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: they're you know, relatively low density chapters, they are important
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: chapters in Rand's journey, and I love Rand's journey.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: So if it had just been one chapter, yeah.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: I just don't think it needed a chapter break. Yeah.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, there you go, there you have it.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: It was short and sweet, and now Rand is back
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: with the gang and they can start kicking ass and
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: taking names.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's time for the last battle to really kick off, right,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: Like this is the the battle has started and things
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: are happening, but this is the moment where it's like, Okay,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: we have a united front. We are going to I
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: have hope for the last battle finally, right right, yeah, right, yeah,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: I think that's That's what I'm looking for, is like
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: this is this they're all pulling in the same direction again,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: which is anti Dark one. Yeah.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: Brand has had his revelation to himself and now he's
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: bringing it together with everyone who's been trying to be
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: on his team this whole time. It's good to see
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: and yeah that's all I got.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: That's it, and then we're back to Aguain next chapter. Awesome, Awesome,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: once again, thanks to our patreons, our new patreons, and
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: everyone who's supported us in the past. Thanks to all
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: of our listeners and thanks for sticking with us through
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: the Sanderson books.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: And in other fun news, I do have another fun
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: announcement for the few people who are into the rewind
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: episodes on the Patreon. Speaking of patre if you are
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: a Patreon, in case anyone doesn't know, it is very
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: few steps to get an RSS feed of an ad
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: free podcast from us through our Patreon. It's really very
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: few clicks. You can message me in Discord, you can
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: google it. It's really easy to use our Patreon to
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: get AD free episodes delivered to your podcast app right
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: along every other podcast. It's not like you need a
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: special app to do it.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: It's so simple, so seamless. You can do that on
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: our Patreon.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: And that's been true for a while, and.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: That's been true since Path of Daggers. Path of Daggers
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: is the book when we got recruited by Spreaker and
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: started to get to put ads in and I had
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: to figure out how to do the whole ad transitions
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  Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. It was a messy time and
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: at one point someone I forget who, but you know
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: who you are. Asked me essentially like, hey, so we're
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: getting new episodes without ads in the Patreon, but the
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: back catalog is entirely stuffed with ads. Now there's no
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: ad free version of the back catalog. Can you fix it?
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: And ultimately I said, yeah, I can fix it. I'm
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: going to give you five hour ish long compilation episodes
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: every Tuesday of our back catalog until it is done.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: That will be the compromise of how I make that happen,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: and I am please to an out and I have finally, finally,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: after like eighteen months, I have finally finished setting those
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: episodes up. They will continue to run for you in
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: Patreon up through December second, and at that point the
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: last of the Path of Dagger episode compilations will go
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: up and I will be done with that project. You
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: will be done getting those massive episodes on Tuesdays. Everything
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: will be ad free and in Patreon, and I don't
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: have to think about it anymore. And I am just
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: so jazz that that is off of my plate.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: Now. Every time you finish a big chunk of that,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: E've been like, I'm done with this chunk, and I
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: don't have to do it again because you do it
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: in big chunks and then you upload them for and
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: so yeah, when you said I'm finally done with this project,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: I was like, this has been a multi year project,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: get those recompiled, re uploaded, and I'm just I'm happy
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: that we did it. I do wish we'd have the
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: forethought to do it before we switched over to ads,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: so people never had that interruption and they always could
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: have done it. But like the reality is.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Well, we're figuring stuff out as we go.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: We're figuring things stuff out as we go. Yeah, so
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: we didn't think about that beforehand. But I'm really really
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: pleased that we do have that done and that you
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: can listen to if you're a Patreon you can listen
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: to our whole back catalog with no ads, because I
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: think that's worth a worthy you know. For me, that's
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: sort of like, if you're gonna pay, why do you
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: have listen to ads?
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah? No, for sure, I hate ads. I firmly believe
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: in being able to buy your way past ads. I'm
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: conflicted on the fact that we even have.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: Them same for as little.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: As a dollar a month, you can just bypass the
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: whole thing, right, And it's Yeah, so that's a whole
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: process that I've been going through, and yeah, but it's
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: been it's been kind of fun systematizing it. I have
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: like a whole spreadsheet process thing where I would set
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: all of the compilations up and then let my program
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: run and just like crunch files for two hours and
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: be uploading them like one at a time. I had
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: a whole systematized process that I had really dialed in.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: It was very efficient by the end, but I'm so
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: glad that it's done yet.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: And now you'll never use it again.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I've made a couple of different systematized processes at
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: various points in my podcasting career. But every time I
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: learn cool tools that do apply in future, I learn
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: new efficiencies, make a new hot key, figure out a
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: new utility. So it's always worthwhile to do these sorts
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: of bass process things. I do enjoy that process of optimizing.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: But yeah, and also pro tip, if anyone really doesn't
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: like the ads and they can't afford a dollar a month,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: like I shouldn't tell you this, but I'm going to
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: tell you this YouTube, go to YouTube because I'm not
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: monetizing the videos there. It's only about forty people watch them,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: but they are there. It's an RSS feed that has
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: just piped over from spreaker. I don't even have to
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: put the episode our in it anymore and do all that.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: Like I've saved fifteen minutes now because YouTube added an
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: RSS input thing, which is saving me time. But like,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: you can just go do that. If you get your
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: podcast through YouTube, you won't get pestered with ads because
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not going through all the hassle of monetizing the
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: YouTube videos for the forty people that watch them. It's
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: just that is so not worth. So that's an alternative.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: If you don't want to deal with ads and you
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: can't give us a dollar a month. I should not
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: be telling you that. That's completely anti capitalist of me.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: But you know what, I'm not super pro capitalist. So
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: this is me fighting against my own existence as a
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: capitalist unit.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: And if anybody wanted to download those episodes and put
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: them in a Torrent and upload that somewhere, I wouldn't.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: Care if you want to go through that much effort.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: That is on you. On you, like, good on you,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, but we.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: Really, you know, I've always been happy we've provided a
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: free product in the beginning, you know, It's just it's
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: one of those things where I'm happy when people donate,
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: and I'm happy, I'm more happy when people listen. That's
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: really the thing, right It's I'm very happy when people
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: give us money. But really the key is I'm just
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: happy people are listening to this, right, Like, it still
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: blows my own I think I was just talking about that.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: How Like when I sit down and think about how
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: many people actually listen to this and spend their time
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: listening to my voice, I feel guilty because I'm sorry.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: People go to sleep to this nonsense.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: Oh I know, I know, I know. Well, at least
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: they sleep through most of it. That's probably the only No.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: It's it's an important thing to provide parasocial content that
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: isn't super messed up and toxicrative to a person's brain.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: You know, we're providing a parasocial space to hang out
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: in that isn't going to cause harm. We're just going
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: to cause bad puns. That's That's the worst harm you're
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: going to come to is bad puns. Thank you for
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Please rate
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast app, and consider supporting
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: us on Patreon. For ad free. Watt Spoilers is a
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: production of Fox and Raven Media. For more podcasts from
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: Fox and Dravenmedia, visit our website at foxendravenmedia dot com.