Latest / Skin Anarchy / Carlos Barreto, Founder of CLEVERMAN

Transcript

Carlos Barreto, Founder of CLEVERMAN · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: This episode is brought to you by Bonnet.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Your business needs more than an 800 number.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: With Bonnet Voice API, you can provide the call experience your customers expect and get the data your team needs.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: From call analytics and virtual assistance to automatic speech recognition and text-to-speech in multiple languages.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Your customer service team can help more people in more places.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: And with Inapp Voice, your customers can easily contact you the moment they have a question.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Take your calls to the next level with Voltage Voice API.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Learn more at Vortage.com.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I am very excited to introduce our guest today because it is definitely a line that is geared towards men.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't get the opportunity to have this conversation very often with, you know, wonderful lines that are for our male audience.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I would love to introduce you guys to the founder of Cleverman, who is Carlos Barreto.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to the show, Carlos.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited you're here.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very happy to be here with you guys.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's lovely to host you, and I would love to get started to get some side sort of like uh background information about how you got involved in the beauty space and the you know in just this uh this whole area of the you know the industry.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, um first of all, I'm uh from Colombia.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I began my career in Colombia when I was much younger.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh my first job was at Gillette, where I had to work with place and racers and shaving.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that was like my first step, let's say in male grooming.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: I worked on the Gillette, the other and France.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh uh I worked in Colombia, then I worked in Boston, where it used to be the headquarters, and then I moved back to Colombia, and I was going to move to Brazil when I came the opportunity to work for uh Kimberly Clark.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I moved to Kimberly Clark in Atlanta when I was working with the feminine care, uh, sovereign cotex and deep pen and poise.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: So it was a completely different category.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And uh then I moved to Coca-Cola, which was a little bit of a experience, a fantastic experience in the sense of working with a fantastic brand.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: I was working in the Coca-Cola brand team, uh, great networking, and uh finally I landed here in New York, New York.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I I worked as a global VP for personal care, then cosmetics, and all the rev, and then I was finished managing all the Revlon brand and the Revlon brand portfolio a few years ago.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I had the chance to work in all the beauty industry from cosmetics, hair, hair color, beauty tools, professional.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was a fantastic experience.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then I said, What is missed?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: Working in all these categories, and I say, I always wanted to be an entrepreneur.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: My father, my mother, they were entrepreneurs in uh in Colombia, and my mother always has been my hero, and she always uh pushes me, hey, when you are gonna build your own business, then I say, Okay, do it now, or I don't do it ever.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: So then I decide to jump from the cliff, and uh I decided to do it, and it takes a lot of courage and has been a tremendous experience.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: It is this is a kind of uh uh an amazing journey.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: The only thing maybe I could say I wanted to do this a little bit earlier in my career because always you have like the comfort and the opportunity to have new challenges in companies.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I think that I was born to do this and it has been very exciting.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh some days are very challenging, some days are difficult, but uh also it's a great sense of accomplishment.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, every new phase is um is very interesting and um and you and having learning a lot.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: I never had the I was have having thinking that when you are in a job and you learn everything and everybody is beginning to ask you the questions, maybe it's the time to see somewhere else because you are not challenged yet, you know.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that this uh experience has been very challenging but very fulfilling.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh every everything that we do is um uh and make happen.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think that this creates a great sense of accomplishment and learning, uh new new experiences.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it has been very, very exciting.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I agree with you.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that you know, it's it it's it's like almost as if with entrepreneurship is like now or never, you know, and if you get an idea, you just have to jump in and just hope for the best.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I I completely agree with you.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm glad that you did because we have a wonderful bl uh brand that came from it.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, thank you for doing that.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I really, you know, I I want to actually really pick your brain because I um, you know, obviously this line is just so different, you know, compared to all of the ones that I interview.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to ask about, you know, where um in in terms of like, you know, everyone does market research or some sort of like consumer research before they started line or you know, whatnot.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: So what was the process like for you in terms of like when you wanted to be when you wanted to start the line?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, did you have to do some homework or like how did it all begin that way?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, um we began.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um let me let me tell you a little bit about the brand.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: So our brand is called Cleverman, Cleverman, New York, and it was born more thinking about that need for also the segment of men to have more choices, more products for let's say the 21st century.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we began with all this area of male grooming, and over the time we have been evolving more to be aligned, you know, for actually our target market is millennials, yeah, that help them to in all this process of aging to help them to look good, to feel good about themselves when the people see in their mirror, they they see what they feel inside.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: And we have incoming, we do a little bit, yeah, helping them to look their best, so we can really bring some self-confidence of people inside.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: So our purpose is about making feel people feel good about themselves, people feel confident, people take the challenges.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: And um the the and the idea began there, you know, and we began with um with uh all this process with hair and beer color.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, our aspiration is to go in new categories that are more helping men to look at their best, you know.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, we are in all that process of innovation and evaluating the categories, uh a growth path to go there.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: But we began with this category because it was uh very underserved.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um I turned 35 and I began to see some grace on my beard.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I wanted to grow my beard.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: This is the true story.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to grow my beard because it was so in fashion, but it was white, so I didn't want it to look like Santa Claus.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then I began to to be color, and it was not that many options, you know, and the product there didn't last, it lasted like two days.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: And also working on beauty, because I was working in hair color, was one of my categories at Revlon.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: I saw that the category was very interesting.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's just only one brand, it's a few products.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: The products are not were not necessarily the same quality that you find in the female category.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, I say, why not to launch a line, you know, that brings the best technology, the best quality, the best product, the the complete solution also for men.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: And um is when we began with this specific first step that it was about hair and beer dye for men.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um also I noticed it that many of my friends were using the product, you know, and they had complaints and the same issues that I had.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Even I had friends in Colombia that use the product, and one of my friends that he comes here and he buys like 20 boxes of ghosts for men, and he has it in storage because it's not that many products and many solutions there.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: So we I think that we were coming to a market that had great opportunity.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: So this is how we saw it.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: We began to identify the opportunity there.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and then uh when I decided to begin all this project, we did some marketing research, we studied consumers, understanding what they were their um needs in terms of consumers.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: So we did some consumer research.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Also, we review competitions.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: So we we saw a lot of the reviews in Amazon of the different competitors, strengths, weaknesses, and and and then we figured out little by little the product, what needed to be included, what was important, not important, and we launched it.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Now that we launch it, we are learning more things.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: So we are learning what consumers like, don't like about our product.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, they like the formula, they like the packaging, they like um some elements, but also identify some other elements that we want to improve and optimize, and it's always a continuous learning.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that um all begins about looking at the opportunity, but also understanding how you can optimize and improve and make every day a better experience.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, honestly, I wanted to highlight this because I really love that you did this, Carlos, is that the brand is very, very inclusive.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I am telling you, as a woman of color, um, you know, I when I first saw the website and I saw like, you know what I mean, like the the sample, like the models on there, and like um how you have like the quiz, the way it's set up, you know.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: For example, for everyone listening, by the way, when you go onto the website, is by the way, it's becleverman.com.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when you go onto the website, you can take a quiz.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And what it is a very thorough quiz.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, um, Carlos's team has a design to where they'll ask you, like, what kind of hair type do you have?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how do you identify with it?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's very, it just, it's it's just so good, you know, to see that because it's like, you know, do you have more Caucasian type of hair, more African um type of hair, more Asian?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And those kind of questions, you know, it's very, very difficult to um it's difficult to make people understand that matters.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I can't tell you how many times, even as a woman, I've been to a salon, right?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm Indian and my hair is a thicker, you know, so it's thicker than Caucasian hair, but it's like not, you know, as thick as maybe African-American hair.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: But it's very difficult to make people understand that you have to approach different hair types in different ways when it comes to dyeing and you know, like coloring and stuff like that.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I really like that you have that like off the bat, you are being very transparent with your consumers, you know, you're you're just getting to the point.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I really, really like that about the brand.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, how was that?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you when you're setting all of that up, you know, was that something that you knew you wanted to do from the beginning, or was it more of like some uh research, market research, or something that went behind that?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think it's in first of all, it's in our mission as a brand.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: We want it to be 100% inclusive, we want it to be also our mission is about personalized products.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: So we personalize everything.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: We personalize gloves, we personalize power, we personalize the kind of brush that we give you depending on the length of your hair, we personalize the timing, even.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's people that seven seven minutes, ten minutes.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, when you see the instructions sometimes in hair color for woman for men, you say, Oh, you need to put think out five minutes more or three minutes more.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, we give you the right time, yeah, or we give you the right treatment.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in the treatment, we understand that African-American hair needs a little bit more um nourishment, moisturizing because we get um more um fragile at some point in time.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we try to understand all those things and create a product that can be personalized for everybody, yeah.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: So we our product can create even up to 10,000 options we can generate with all our agreement, not just on color, but also in the treatment, in the timing, in the kind of brush.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that is our mission.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: We wanted to have a product for everybody, yeah.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that also should be translated in the imagery, in the models, in and to be honest, this is like the base today for every brand.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think that we should start there, and to be inclusiveness should be a foundation of any brand in the 21st century.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I agree.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree with you.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: But unfortunately, you know, Carlos, a lot of people don't think like us.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I can't tell you how many times I've walked into like a drugstore or something, and you know, just let me just give you an example, you know, for someone, so I have, you know, like black hair, right?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: And for the longest time, and I'm also by the way, I'm millennial.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, you know, I could really uh I can have this conversation with you very openly because you know, I remember being uh, you know, I started to gray very early because my father actually um I have his hair and he grayed very early.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, genetically I was predisposed to it.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember when I started graying, I was like in my mid-20s, you know, maybe late 20s.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, I was very, very scared in terms of like when I would go to the drugstore or go to the store, look for dyes, there was one color and it's like black.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, this is not, this doesn't make any sense, you know.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's like three different there's so many different shades of black hair.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when you for example, everyone listening out there, I want to I want to highlight this because when you go onto the website, you know, they don't just have Cleverman doesn't just have like black, it says, you know, like it gives you shades like black, you know, natural black or soft black, you know, that it's like those details are so meaningful, you know, because I I remember the trauma of not being able to find my correct color, you know, for hair color.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so those things are very, very meaningful.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that really helps, you know, for me as a consumer, like look at your brand and think, you know, the homework is there.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: You guys really thought this out because yeah, you know, depending on what ethnicity we are, are even if we have black hair, all black hair is not the same, you know.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to keep that in mind.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that this is something you only see in like salons, you know.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you go to a salon and then, you know, you have a uh professional analyzing the color of your hair, they're going to consider these things.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: But to see it in a brand that you can buy and then use at home and then you know, it's it's gonna come out the way you want.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really, really special thing.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I I really like that about your brand.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really happy that you, you know, you made it the way you did in that aspect.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: We really appreciate it.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that was our objective.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: And specifically in the mail market, you see, it's like that was one of my issues, like uh when I was doing the dye of my beer, because when I went to the supermarket and I it was just only five chase or black, brown, blonde, or Sandy Brown, okay.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like in the middle.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: So for many less options.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think that also as um all as it is inclusiveness, you know, also in the area of let's say grooming or beauty, not to say men, you know, the men's beauty, is also that need to have more uh more shades, more colors.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Also, as we are doing as Fenty does really well that came with so many shades for makeup and foundation, you know.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Also in the area of men, you know, that is less developed.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Today you have always five, six options, you know, and also men we come in different shades, in different colors, with different tones, with different.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Some guys also in our in our products were trying to do more um partial coverage so you can keep your soul and pepper, reduce it.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: So options, I think customization, personalization, uh, inclusion, uh all those are areas for uh the brands of the future.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: So now we are super restricted because we used to live in a retail environment that has a shelf space and just give you five boxes because that's the productivity that you can have now, because we are direct distribution, because we have a different business model, we can approach things in a very different way that allows us to be more personalized, that give consumers what they really want and drive products and create products and solutions that they really love and they can really engage and they can keep really connect, or also they can connect with us and tell us we just want to do this little change and we can do it for them.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that that's the future of the relationship, how we how brands are gonna be interacting with consumers, that is more personal, more intimate, uh, more a relationship where it's two ways, not just only one word.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I agree.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: I 100% agree.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you know, you've really you're really making this a movement in itself.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, for example, you know, I just want to I I like to educate the listeners as much as I can because you know, we they need to understand that, you know, the product, by the way, guys, you know, when you when you get these products, they're not just hair dye, you know, it's a it's very important you understand that because it comes with things like barrier cream that's gonna prevent staining, you know, which is a huge problem for people who have very dark hair and we want to color our hair, you know, especially with men in beards and stuff, you know.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like they they're they have everything in the line is created to really give you the top-notch experience of coloring.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not about just okay, slap some color on your hair and then get rid of the grays.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's it's this idea of you know, what Carlos was saying is that is this customization, this this personalization and and this feeling of, you know, I can trust this brand because everything has been thought about, you know, like for example, the gloves come with it, you know, and also the fact that you guys have options.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't want to be the person that, you know, colors their hair and everything is gone, all of a sudden all the grays are gone.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: You can have that option, you know, you can do this gradual uh program where you're gradually dyeing the hair and it's gradually, you know, coloring your hair.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: So there's many options here that are available, you know, even the way the brush is designed, it's a dual-ended brush, you know, you have a comb and then you have the brush side.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of details.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I always say this, you know, Carlos, I always say the real masteries in the details, right?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, you know, when you see a brand and you see that they've put the time and the effort into things like, you know, like these little tiny things that we don't really think about, that's what really makes a brand stand out to me as a consumer, you know?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so even like when I look at this and I look at even just going through the website, you know, when you look at the website and you see that, you know, all of these aspects, you realize, okay, this brand has done their homework.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: They really know their consumer, they really know how to target the consumer, how to give the consumer what they want.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: And also, one good thing I wanted to really point out to everybody listening is that men and women both that have darker hair, we usually have more of it.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's thicker, especially those of us who are from like, you know, Latin America or from India or from, you know, uh from all these uh Middle Eastern countries.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we have a lot of hair, I can tell you honestly.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: So the product that you're getting, you're getting 30% more product than your typical drugstore brand.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that's something, it's a small detail that you might miss, but it's it's actually a big deal because you're getting that little bit extra that you need and you don't have to think about it.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the things, and and those little things, and that's why I say, you know, details matter because when you're using a product, the worst thing is running out and then not having enough to cover everything, right?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's terrible.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I want to move on because I know that, you know, Carlos, I know you've created a truly, you know, very, very uh well rounded brand.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know you have some great ingredients.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: You've got the argon oil in there, you've got walnut oil, you know, uh, you've got this hundred percent vegan Cruelty free, you know, ethos in the brand.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to ask, you know, how how was that, you know, in creating in creating this?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't know how that works in terms of hair care products, um, the whole vegan thing and all that.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: So can you explain that to us a little bit, the process?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's also about the values of the brand, as we wanted to be inclusive.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we wanted to create a product that has the best possible ingredients for you, and not just only in terms of um formula, but also things that we can add, you know, to the product.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: So there are two pieces there for me that are important.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: One is that the product works, you know, because sometimes it's not just only about uh doing putting ingredients there, you know, that are good or nice, but if the product doesn't work, then we have a problem, you know.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the things that we worked with our RD team, and we have a great partner that we produces the product in Italy.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we worked in this formula for two years.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: We tried a few formulas that didn't work because we wanted to do something even more, you know, natural as possible, and it took us time.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: It took us time, it took us energy, it took us maybe six, seven formulations to make it work.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: On the other side, we wanted the formula to work really fast.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: This formula formula works between five and ten minutes maximum.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: So to make it that happen, took and with all the parameters and the additional ingredients, the vegan, the the organic ingredients took us some energy and some time.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: But uh we came together.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, the day that we got the formula, the formula was working well, and our color is saying the formula is great, is working.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: We tested that with 300 consumers, is when I say, okay, we have now a viable company, you know, and now we are gonna be investing the in the rest of the stuff.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: So the formula is the core.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: We wanted a formula that that worked well in with consumers, but also that was up to our values as a company.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: And in the future, we wanna continue, you know, doing more things, improving more things, making things even better.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to open a you need to open a salon.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm telling you, you need to open a salon franchise.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yes, we we we have been thinking about that.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's in that.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know why I say that?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know why I'm saying that?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because in America, in American culture for men's hair grooming, there's this idea of like the barber shop, you know, as you know.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the barbershop is a place of not only grooming, but it's a place for men to just really just be men, you know, they talk, they chat, they share stories.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: But in all of that, as much as that's that's a wonderful thing, during that whole process, things get missed, right?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: So somebody might be men are more hesitant to ask for things like, you know, I want my beard to be touched up, or I want, you know, uh, I want something that's gonna help my skin, you know.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: I have sensitive skin.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: So make sure you're using something that's good for those kind of questions and those kind of details.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, unfortunately, you know, our culture and our society is still catching up with, you know, allowing men to be more open and and to feel more comfortable, right?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like we need that.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: We need this space to be more comfortable, and I think your brand is definitely in the right direction.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's you know, it's paving that path.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it would be brilliant if you opened your own, you know, your salon franchise because you know, we need more places that are geared towards men.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing wrong with that, you know.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: As women, we have a million salons to pick from, you know, men have like five barbershops in a city.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it's very, very and we we are we we have been thinking a little bit about that.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: We began some conversations with some salons, not salons, more barber shops uh here in New York to see what could be a right business model to work with them.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one great thing is that we have an our celebrity colorist in our team.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, and he has been working with celebrities, male and female, in Hollywood.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: And also now we have that as a part of the team that can help us to really connect to that uh segment that could become great ambassadors for our brand.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, our product is very professional, it's designed by a company that produces professional products, you know.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: And um and our team also um it's uh coming from the professional channel.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: So our product is uh a professional like formula, which will work really well in that kind of environment.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: Also, the fact that works in just only five minutes, you know, can reduce that stigma.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: And definitely I see great opportunity in that specific segment and channel.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, you can even broaden beyond just you know, just hair care.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: You can because men, see, here's the thing.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I always tell my friends, I have some, you know, I have some male friends who are very hesitant, you know, about anything that has to do with like going and getting any kind of self-care done.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so one day I I I want to tell you the story.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: One day I had a friend, okay, a college friend, old friend, and I told him, I said, You're coming with me, and we're getting pedicures.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he looked at me like I am the craziest person on the planet.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I'm a man, I'm not getting a pedicure.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Are you insane?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: We all have feet, we all deserve care.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I had to have a little uh time for ourselves, and yeah, and I had to explain this to him.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: I had to explain to him that listen, just because you're a man doesn't mean you can't have these nice, you know, little moments of self-care and let someone pamper you, and you know, just so this is a very, very deep conversation, I think.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that it needs to be unfolded.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Many layers are here, so there I think that this is much needed, you know, in the beauty space.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think what you know, your brand is is a wonderful step in the right direction.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you know, we can definitely, I would love to see clever men do a lot more, more than just hair care, you know.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we are in that direction, that's our goal.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um I had a moment of inspiration.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I want to I want to share with you.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Then when we were like launching all this line, talking about the formula, we tested the product with 300 guys.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and um we had to find people, you know, who wanted to do her color, beer color, they didn't know what color they were gonna do.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: So actually, some of these people were like 45, 50 years old.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: They they were people that sometimes they have not necessarily easy lives, you know.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and um yet, and we were paying them to her color, to beer color, you know.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: So the it's people that is willing to do that, you know, it's not like um an everybody person or the doctor or the lawyer, no, it's people that is willing to do that to get uh 50 or 60 dollars, you know, in their pockets.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: And this is what's on the testing of the formula.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: So when we when we did that and we used the color, we did some transformation of these people, you know.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we changed the hairstyle, we color their hair, uh, we color their beard.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was so good for them.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody was all I can tell you like 99.9% of the guys were super happy about the result.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: But the most interesting thing about it was about their self-confidence and how they feel so good about them looking at themselves and looking at the self good again because they didn't take care of themselves, they didn't, they didn't enjoy themselves.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: But when they looked in the mirror, they saw the change, they saw them looking good.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Many of them say, Okay, I'm gonna go tonight to a bar, I'm gonna go to, I'm gonna ask for that job that I didn't do.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: I wanna go with a date with my wife, I feel energetic again.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: And these people is 45-50 years old.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: By the way, we're gonna live 100 years with the medicine with all the things that are happening, yeah.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: So you are in the middle of your life.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that the fact that you look at yourself and you look yourself more happy, more confident about yourself, that you can reflect that internal energy that you still have outside and and and and and give and bring a little bit of that self-confidence back to you.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think that is a tremendous value that everybody, every every man can have.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: And in that note, after all that uh experience, I began to investigate more about all the ideas of confidence of men and mental health.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's one of the big challenges that we're living in the US is that uh we don't talk that much about men.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: We don't talk about the issues that they have, you know.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: And the biggest one of the biggest causes of uh the biggest rate of suicidal is happening among men.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's about the circumstances.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot of pressure as it is pressure on women, it's also pressure on men about success, uh, being number one, uh getting uh the right uh uh success.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot of pressure for success to be number one, to be a provider, you know, in in many ways.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, and that pressure, yeah.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: When you cannot manage that pressure, you go into a really depressive path too.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that men too, you know, it's um it's something that we don't talk that much, you know, and it's also a good opportunity to discuss about those issues, about mental health, support them, and bring them this idea, a little bit of this idea of self-confidence that can, I'm not saying just only about my product, but my product can help or our products can help a little bit in that idea of I can still feel young, I can still feel energetic, I feel happy about myself, I feel happy looking at my hands, you know, I'm good, I'm I'm uh um I'm feeling myself, you know, and I think that we could do a little bit more.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that when you are talking about those um uh taboos, you know, about men to be taking care of themselves is part of the issue because I think that men don't pamper themselves, they don't look at themselves in the mirror and they see the good side of them.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that all sometimes brands, you know, will have a bigger purpose behind just only not just only doing products that sell, but also helping people in all that a more holistic way.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I would love our brand to contribute in that way in the long term and to be a part more with organizations and NGOs, etc., that can help us to have that big.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love everything you just said, and honestly, I uh just because you said that, I'm going to make sure that every guy friend I have gets uh something from uh, you know, clever men.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because honestly, there are very few men that I can have this conversation with, and this is such an important topic you've brought up.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: And as a I can tell you, as a doctor, as a as a medical professional, I 100% agree with you.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is a serious, serious thing within the male community, is that one, men don't like to talk about problems, you know, it's the stigma of a man shouldn't cry, or a man shouldn't express his emotions, or a man has to be strong all the time.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's uh it's a bunch of crap, you know, if you ask me, because at the end of the day, we're all human beings and we all have emotions and we all have feelings and we all need self-confidence.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I really like that you brought this up because this conversation has to be had and it has to be brought up because let me be honest with you.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: When I log into Instagram, I see 15 memes about some girl going to a hair salon and she feels great about herself.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: And she's you know, we're putting up these pictures of women feeling great about themselves because we just went to a hair salon, we got a new haircut.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: We feel great about ourselves.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't I see that with men?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't I log into social media and I see, oh, you know, a man is on you know his Instagram or his TikTok or something, and he's saying, Hey guys, you know, I went to the salon today, I feel really great today, you know.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: I that that little thing, it made me feel good about myself, you know.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: You don't see that because every time a man does that, our society is going to push him down and say, you shouldn't be doing that.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's girly or that's not, you know, and I hate that stuff.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: I really do.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm very passionate about it as well.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, um, these kind of things, and that's why another reason why, you know, I really want to highlight this brand because you're providing, you know, you're providing salon grade product for something that, you know, for for men to use at home.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why it's a it's a stepping stone, right?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Everything has all change happens in little increments, I in my belief, you know, and so like by providing this, you know, it's going to open up this discussion of wait a minute, why are there not more professional salons for men only, you know?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: And why, why is that a taboo?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Why, why do we have to, you know, explain that or you know, put all these like, you know, extra marketing things around it?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Why can't we just do it and then everybody's okay with it?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: That needs to be addressed in the beauty community, absolutely.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, we need to see more male-founded brands that are geared towards men and to gear towards the self-confidence and and self-perception.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, Carlos, honestly, I was having this conversation the other day with somebody, and I'm very concerned about the generations coming up, the young men that are growing up now, because they are not able to, I, in my opinion, they're not finding a way to properly express themselves.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: You see what I'm saying?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, they're not they they can't look at like they don't have an example of like, okay, this is what it means to be body positive.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it and me and you know, I had this interview a while ago.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Michael Kranz, he actually is um, you know, he was at Hearst and he was really I high up there in Hearst.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we had this conversation, and me and Michael were uh or Michael and I were talking about how you know this idea of positive body image and positive like self-confidence in men, it is completely ignored by the beauty industry.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: No one is talking about it, and nobody wants to talk about it, nobody wants to write articles about it, you know.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: There, I mean, think about just the the magazines.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's like maybe two magazines for men.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's men off the top of my head, I can think of men's health and GQ.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then like that's it, you know what I mean?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a big part, yeah.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree about that.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that also we are talking about um a la uh many brands talk about uh all this masculine toxicity and the image of men, you know.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that we need to do something about since the beginning, just from the core, if it is self-confidence, if it is uh a better perception about yourself.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think that many of those things are going, it's all gonna also gonna cascade in that way, you know, because I think that that's also part of the issue is the insecurities, it is the challenge of all this pressure, you know, that also it could be translated in really bad things too.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that we need to create a more positive uh image about yourself, of how who you are, and I think that that will contribute.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying that that's a solution, no, I'm saying it's uh will contribute for some men to feel more confident and they need to feel loved and you need to love yourself.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's about love about yourself, and I think that that's nothing bad about love yourself, you know.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think that loving yourself, feeling good about yourself, um, I think that will help you, you know, your in your in your inner core to have a better reflection and to have a better behavior and to be a more inclusive, accepting, uh receptive person.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think that all becomes insight.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, like everybody says, you can the first thing that you need to lose is love yourself.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I completely agree with you.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to just say, you know, I'm I'm so honored to have had this conversation with you.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: You are a phenomenal human being, I can tell.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: And your brand is beautiful.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love what you've created, and I am a huge supporter, you know.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I I everyone listening, you need to go check out this brand.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, again, the website is thecleverman.com.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Check it out.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Really, you know, look into it.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Look at the details, guys.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is it, you know, Carlos, your team, you guys have really done something magical, and I love it.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, just to add a little piece to what you said, um, you know, I just want to put some facts out there for people that really support what, you know, Carlos and I have been talking about is that, you know, as I am Indian, like I said, and I remember, um, you know, my my father still reads the news, right?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: That comes out of India, and and you will not believe, you know, there are so many young men who are engineering students or medical students and they end up uh committing suicide.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know why?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because they fail one exam and they're scared because they uh, you know, they're gonna let down their family or their family's not going to see them as a provider, or their family's not going to see them as strong enough.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a real problem in the world, and we have to do something about it.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if something like, you know, taking care of yourself, if something's small and these small things that we do day to day can help anyone, then I'm all for it, you know.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I just I I love what you what you stand for, Carlos.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: I really do.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'm a huge supporter.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, uh so again, you know, everyone listening, yes, no, I I mean it.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: I really mean it.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone listening, you know, I really urge you this is a great time to gift that special man in your life, you know, get him a nice set.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think I think he'll really like it, you know.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm gonna get my dad one actually.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: So so you know, I think, yeah, and so you know, I I really urge everybody go check it out.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna tag everything in the podcast episode, uh, art for this, and you know, um, you know, I would love to have you back anytime, Carlos, anytime at all.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, thank you very much.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much for the invitation.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: This has been a great time.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, likewise.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, everybody listening, I'll be back next time.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: We are available on so many different platforms.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: So wherever it is that you're tuning in, just go hit subscribe.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: You will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: This way, you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, brand founders, industry leaders, authors, all the wonderful people that we host.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: Also, make sure to give us a follow on all of our social media outlets.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're available on Instagram, TikTok, X, you name it, we're there.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: We also have a blog on Medium.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're a reader and you love medium blogs, check us out on Medium.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: We go above and beyond with our research and making sure we're bringing you information that you usually probably won't hear about in other outlets.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: So check us out, leave us a comment, leave us a review, and we'll be back next time with another episode.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.