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Ireland back on top! Should Someone Be Relegated?! · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

• 0:00
  Great weekend everybody will everybody love is beating England and it's working on that's that's one that just unite
• 0:06
  The rest of world rugby didn't it all they took players those players that you need to come through in a big game came through
• 0:13
  Welsh have always played an expensive style of rugby that they want to play
• 0:19
  They're based a few years back. They only keep the ball
• 0:23
  They never played one
• 0:25
  Reasably get it up in the air
• 0:27
  Yeah, no mistakes. That's what they did. Italy probably have the best from the six nations. They're definitely a threat
• 0:33
  No, but it's not the six nations should have a promotion relegation
• 0:36
  There's enough excitement in the tournament that I don't think we need that level of jeopardy in the rest of the world
• 0:41
  Would you be saying that if England was at the bottom of the table? Yeah, it would be funny
• 0:46
  It would but just for a cheap giggle. It would be a bit much ricado for when you're gonna ask about super raggedy mate
• 0:52
  It did start
• 0:54
  Victor Victor that is that is rude of you
• 1:03
  Right welcome to rivals and trimby you were very quick on the call this week
• 1:08
  Yeah, I think we should do multiple podcasts. We were your last podcast this week
• 1:12
  We were your last week mate. What's going on a little bit?
• 1:16
  Have a little bit of you last week when I'll employ weight
• 1:19
  You just can't pick a choose to come on the show mate. Like what's going on? Are we back is that is that everybody's seen it?
• 1:26
  Is artists will be back or are we just being as positively dramatic as we were negatively dramatic was jickel and hide was was was was jickel and hide an
• 1:36
  Arishman by any chance because I
• 1:38
  Can't work that one out mine. I
• 1:40
  Know I do you think I
• 1:43
  Don't want to be I don't want to do the positive version of all the drama of the last couple weeks
• 1:47
  It was crisis in Paris literally three weeks ago and I was probably
• 1:54
  Crisis after Italy as well
• 1:56
  According to a lot of people, but
• 1:58
  This is surprised everyone that performance just came out of nowhere and all the big players turned up
• 2:04
  You know, I mean all of the big names all of the leaders all of the Irish guys that we've been leaning on for number of years that
• 2:10
  People that started to suspect were starting to get over the hill
• 2:14
  a team and transition all that sort of stuff
• 2:16
  I don't know if it's put that to be it to bed
• 2:19
  But if we're able to demonstrate that this is like a turning point rather than the jackelyn hide unless
• 2:25
  You know, we take a dip again, but
• 2:27
  It's a good good place to be great weekend everybody will everybody loves beating England. It's working them
• 2:32
  That's that's one they just unite the rest of world rugby, didn't it?
• 2:37
  I was in it unbelievable how long a week is in the international rugby
• 2:41
  I mean we were all thinking where is Ireland they
• 2:45
  On their way out and trouble for the next world cup and all of a sudden they gave a performance that was really unbelievable
• 2:52
  I don't know if England were that bad, but
• 2:56
  Again, it's a classy outfit. You need to go out there. You need to go to it and we're trying to be said
• 3:01
  All the top players those players that you need to come through in a big game came through
• 3:06
  They stood up and I performed at the base and I wondered you think they'll settle at 10 now
• 3:12
  With the moves they made or are they still in between for me?
• 3:16
  I mean, I can't go any other direction. I Jack Rowley was was very good in an understeered way
• 3:24
  It wasn't all about him
• 3:26
  So he kind of it was a less is more performance and whenever you're nine and twelve the guys inside or night side of you are playing as well as Jim's
• 3:34
  It gives a park and strip McCloskey
• 3:36
  Then just just fit in give the ball early get into your ship
• 3:40
  You don't need to be the rock star putting guys three holes or pulling rabbit side of hats
• 3:45
  And I think that was a moment of realization and maturity from Jack Rowley, so but again one
• 3:51
  It's one game
• 3:52
  Hopefully we can kick on from here and he can kick on from here as well
• 3:55
  But six nations lads you must be looking on you two you three looking on just like
• 4:02
  orphans at Christmas time looking into a toy shop you would love to be involved in the six nations because it just
• 4:08
  throws up results on weekends like this
• 4:10
  Like like how good was jermish and good some parks, so I think like what you mentioned
• 4:18
  Victor is is a really important one. We're England bad over Ireland just that good
• 4:24
  But I thought the first 32 minutes of that island performance was like absolutely world class
• 4:31
  England wherein I think England were completely shell shocked and that didn't help, but they were shell shocked because
• 4:39
  You know of that amazing performance
• 4:42
  But I do want to talk about Jekyll and Hyde because this year's six nations besides France
• 4:47
  I'm going what the hell is going on. I mean
• 4:51
  How can we have an England that good?
• 4:55
  And then have an England that bad and then have an island that bad and then that good the only consistency is France at the moment
• 5:02
  I mean, I saw that I saw the Welsh game and I thought what the hell is going on here and then
• 5:08
  Late in the game. I don't know if you saw the Welsh defense. It was like watching under 13
• 5:15
  Defense they just had absolutely no idea at one stage like I mean Finn Russell was you know running at the line
• 5:22
  And he did a simple behind the bat and there was just absolutely no Welsh defense that I'm going
• 5:27
  I'm sort of watching this
• 5:29
  Jekyll and Hyde performance from everyone. I mean, it's weird
• 5:32
  Right all about just one player that you haven't really talked about a lot in the Potsky the 12th for Ireland
• 5:39
  He's got a massive heart. Why is he not full-time
• 5:44
  Starting 12 just like
• 5:47
  Every every year
• 5:49
  Did he start against your black strumming? He did. Yeah, we bumped into him
• 5:53
  When we went and had a walk and had a cup of coffee when you made me jump in them lady river
• 5:58
  That's right
• 5:59
  Yeah, that's he's a lot and he's um
• 6:02
  So he's 33 you know
• 6:04
  He's a big big boy, but he's also got a really good skill site as well
• 6:08
  Some wheels. Yeah, he reeled in
• 6:11
  Marcus Marcus Smith didn't he
• 6:13
  Um
• 6:15
  He's he's a he's on a slightly unusual one. No, anybody who's watched Ulster play for the last 10 years
• 6:20
  He's been one of Ulster's best players. He's the tallest man. He give the ball in McCloskey
• 6:24
  He gets you in der shape. He gets you gain lines. He gets you offload
• 6:28
  All of that breathing stuff, but he's just very subtly matured and added layers to his game
• 6:33
  And added just a kind of a level of composure. He just surges through contact and he kind of contorts his body
• 6:40
  Keeps pumping his legs. He's happy to go to ground. He's happy to keep options alive and people starting to read him as well
• 6:45
  So the kick he's also introduced a bit of a kicking game off low game passing game. It's distribution to
• 6:50
  Ballacune on the edge big wept-long pass
• 6:53
  Feed the speed in the edge ballacune
• 6:55
  We can talk about him as well, but like when's the last time Ireland have had
• 6:59
  Proper peace like that out wide
• 7:01
  So it's a big point of difference and it's a real demonstration of since you
• 7:05
  Since one thing I want to come in remember loss here we spoke about
• 7:11
  playing with emotion
• 7:13
  And we said there's probably two teams Ireland and New Zealand that can away can get away with it
• 7:19
  But this week there was a lot of emotion in that Irish team
• 7:23
  They were psyched up for this game. They wanted to show what they can do and
• 7:27
  They just shows
• 7:29
  With Rappi there's always a little bit of that
• 7:32
  If you get that real emotion right on the day
• 7:36
  And you want to go perform and you just mentally
• 7:39
  More prepared than the other team
• 7:41
  The things happen on the field and I mean if you look at any feral in the stance in our emotionally
• 7:46
  He got a normally very calm
• 7:48
  There was a lot of emotion that went into this game for Ireland as well
• 7:53
  Why there was an idea and why do you think trim because I'm really interested in this and and you mentioned it
• 7:58
  Fortunately your older players or those players
• 8:02
  With longevity to them
• 8:04
  That I like to call them old because I just hate being called old as a player
• 8:07
  I mean is it one and done can they get up emotionally all the time?
• 8:11
  I mean Ireland used to play like that often. So is that a good sign or a bad sign
• 8:18
  Like all you're asking the right questions one and done so tweaking them
• 8:21
  It's it's easy to get emotionally ready for tweaking them
• 8:25
  But maybe it's more difficult to get emotionally ready for for wheels on a Friday night
• 8:29
  Whenever just the state of Welsh will be at the minute. No granted actually
• 8:32
  They were I thought they were a lot better at the weekend
• 8:33
  But the individual
• 8:36
  Lads with a point to prove in the other Irish head as well and anti-files created an environment where Josh
• 8:42
  Founder Flier got dropped. He's got a point to prove James Ryan is a point to prove
• 8:46
  Um
• 8:47
  Who else is there in there like Jack Royley's got a point to prove strip McCloskey
• 8:51
  I suppose long term has he wants to demonstrate how good he has been and he can do it on the on the big stage
• 8:58
  plenty of guys
• 8:59
  Put their hand up and they responded to that one anti-file like I know
• 9:03
  Victor there's a bit of a raszy thing here just
• 9:07
  Plant the seed with some of these guys and just create an environment where they have to demonstrate
• 9:12
  You're creating that emotional response and then there's guys like
• 9:16
  um
• 9:17
  Like Dan sheen and Kiel and Doris who we haven't seen the best of this season
• 9:21
  But then we just saw the best of it. I don't think that's a coincidence
• 9:24
  Only far out creates an environment where he gets the best out of these guys and the big players
• 9:28
  Turned up and they were leaders at the weekend. So but you're right jk. Can they do that consistently weekend week out
• 9:35
  Far as got them to that position in the past but um we'll find out in the next couple of weeks whether there's there's something there
• 9:41
  And let's just have a look at England too like like obviously, you know last year they
• 9:46
  Buying really good football. They I think they won 12 games in the row
• 9:50
  Now they've you know dropped the couple
• 9:52
  Um are they in trouble?
• 9:55
  Thanks change quickly Victor. Didn't you say at the time?
• 9:57
  Within we said the start of six nations. We said they look they look absolutely look
• 10:02
  Like they're on the right trajectory. They look for a medieval. They've got momentum their kicking KM's goods set pieces good
• 10:08
  Everything on paper is good
• 10:09
  But we did say at the start they haven't been tested yet
• 10:13
  And that's the like that's that's the moment when you go what is this team made of and it's a bit of an intangible
• 10:18
  They've been tested twice in the field both tests Victor
• 10:21
  Yeah, it's difficult for them uh, I always feel for
• 10:25
  English team because I think the English media makes it so hard
• 10:30
  I mean they win three four
• 10:32
  Good games and then they will be to say supposedly number one in the world
• 10:37
  Then they lose two and they want to chase away everyone
• 10:39
  Uh, we spoke about it last week now. They won four three gone after 112 in a row. So
• 10:45
  I don't think
• 10:48
  It's that a bigger problem. I still believe they know how they wanted to play
• 10:52
  Um, I just think if you look at that back of fours of them
• 10:57
  Especially the guys they picked this weekend especially in a big physical game
• 11:02
  There will just be two lines uh, you need those guys that can punch holes
• 11:07
  Especially if the things are up the coming off the line you need ball carriers that they go through a wall
• 11:12
  And that's probably the one area where England's lacking at the moment. They've got
• 11:18
  Two three big big ball carriers that's not even on the bench at the moment
• 11:22
  Um, so I think if they look at their pack uh bulk up a little bit
• 11:28
  Uh, they still got all the quality and a cheap uh
• 11:31
  They probably need maybe one or two game breakers as well at the back but uh
• 11:35
  I think they still update with the best teams in the world
• 11:39
  So who's their big ball carriers victor? It's it's it's banner all it's Henry Pollock
• 11:43
  But usually on top of the last game
• 11:46
  One of them are going to run into the war been oh well
• 11:49
  Uh, what's the longly flanking with the dreaded is
• 11:54
  You play a few games on uh at eight last year and I thought wow you could play must go with him. It's got the double name
• 12:01
  Yes, you eat boy and I thought
• 12:04
  You can make a difference and yeah, he hasn't been picked. He can play lockers well. He can play four and
• 12:10
  Uh six and eight
• 12:12
  Conning himself. Can we're cutting him south?
• 12:14
  Yes. Yes. Yes. They just need something that could really bulk them up and we've said it
• 12:20
  They died far also scrum tom haven't been tested
• 12:25
  I think they're really interesting thing for me um and I actually uh
• 12:30
  Had a had a day with Wayne Smith
• 12:33
  on uh
• 12:35
  On monday and we were talking about how bad the northern hemisphere is at scrambling defense
• 12:41
  It's one thing that you learn in super ragby because there's so many more line breaks whereas in the northern hemisphere
• 12:48
  Especially at six nations. It's really quite tight and really quite tactical and kicking and you know
• 12:53
  It's really set
• 12:54
  But I I just noticed that
• 12:56
  England's England had no idea scrambling defense neither did
• 13:01
  Neither did Wales. It's really interesting that I think the game is changing
• 13:06
  Quite considerably in the north and you're getting these breakout games where
• 13:10
  And so if you don't practice some of those things
• 13:13
  Um for us like I like I say in the in the southern hemisphere scrambling defense
• 13:17
  We practice scrambling defense because there's going to be line breaks
• 13:20
  But I really noticed on the weekend that english scrambling defense with terrible
• 13:26
  Um the well scrambling defense was terrible
• 13:28
  So my question is is the game is the game changing victor is the is the northern hemisphere game now
• 13:35
  You know opening up. I don't
• 13:38
  So I don't quite agree. I think transition
• 13:41
  In ragby is so important at the moment and I mean from the kicking game from the high kicks
• 13:47
  That's probably where you get the broken fields from years sometimes line breaks, but I mean
• 13:52
  Every kick there's almost broken field where people need to get in to broken field offense and broken field attacks
• 13:58
  So I'm not quite there
• 14:01
  The Welsh team is just struggling at the moment and
• 14:05
  Yeah, maybe a few combinations different centre bearing
• 14:09
  Uh fort also not the bravest at 10
• 14:13
  Uh, maybe one or two
• 14:15
  Problems are there on on defense in the back line
• 14:18
  Thought wheels were better though. I thought I thought wheels
• 14:21
  Demonstrated a big step forward and it looked atmospheric in in cardiff
• 14:26
  Um, I thought it looked it looked like there was an atmosphere looked like there was an intensity
• 14:31
  An excitement on game day and it's a real reminder that we need wheels
• 14:36
  We need wheels going well. We were desperate for them contributing in a meaningful way to six nations
• 14:40
  And I thought the performance and the pitch kind of reflected the atmosphere a little bit
• 14:44
  I thought was a big step forward
• 14:46
  Devastating for them because they've got nothing to show from it
• 14:48
  But I thought it looked like they looked a little bit more about themselves
• 14:52
  It was probably more about their performing wealth in Scotland doing their jackal and hide after beating England
• 14:58
  Yeah, well
• 15:00
  Well to winning to third 90% of the game. I mean so
• 15:04
  Yeah, there was a what surprised me what surprised me the most about that particular game
• 15:10
  Was I totally agree with you, but then they were really really bad
• 15:14
  They look like an under 15 side for the last 20 minutes
• 15:17
  That's what surprised me because they I agree they look fantastic
• 15:21
  But then they just sort of I don't know whether it's a belief thing or
• 15:25
  A fitness thing or whatever, but they just completely fell apart life. Yeah, I think it is. I think it is
• 15:31
  I'm using the word Jekyll and Hyde because that's what it yeah
• 15:34
  So I think if you look at beating up a lot of the bits off
• 15:38
  Yeah, they haven't um they haven't put together more than 10 minutes of rugby over the last couple of years
• 15:44
  And this is the first time they put together 40-50 minutes
• 15:47
  And they're just not used to that level of intensity
• 15:50
  They can't perform at that level of intensity for any minutes
• 15:53
  I think all I get felt kind of inevitable Scotland eventually are going to get a hold of this game
• 15:57
  As and wheels just started to wilt a little bit. I just think
• 16:01
  Wiles is not at a
• 16:03
  Place or they don't know if the team to play as much rugby as they're playing at the moment
• 16:08
  Um
• 16:09
  They're trying to play this ball in hand game. They overplay
• 16:13
  Then the rules wheels will come off in the last 20 minutes
• 16:16
  You only have so much energy and you need to use it at the right times and
• 16:20
  I remember some of the coaches especially when you're in difficult times is I mean that's what rusted it through the spring box
• 16:26
  We did it on a Henna Kamei with the rules when we were really nowhere
• 16:30
  It's just going back to almost very defensive great kicking game
• 16:35
  Play the only way for two nervous, but whales want to go out. They want to play
• 16:40
  And unfortunately, I think they play themselves with their feet and they make mistakes
• 16:44
  And there's a lot of two nervous trials against them as well
• 16:47
  Then they might not have the the physicality victor to to do the alternative
• 16:51
  They may be the maybe they feel like okay if we stretch sides
• 16:55
  Then we might not be fitting off to do it now
• 16:57
  But if we continue to do this our skills yet skills that will get up to it
• 17:01
  And then our fitness and condition will get up to it as well
• 17:03
  But I don't they've got the physicality to do the kick again and the direct it's very difficult because you say when I always talk to teams
• 17:12
  I mean we've got teams inside Africa. It's really struggled for last seven years
• 17:16
  And they always talk about let's work on the process. Let's get the process right. Let's get our skill set
• 17:22
  Unfortunately, you need to win first
• 17:24
  I don't think they've got the players that you want to go send into a game where they've got two three options every time
• 17:31
  They get the ball
• 17:32
  Unfortunately, I just not good enough at the moment to do those
• 17:36
  To do the right decision under pressure and then they make mistakes and then things go downward
• 17:40
  So I would want to go if I coach him I would think
• 17:44
  Come much more playing go much more conservative
• 17:47
  They don't have the skill set to make decisions under pressure at the moment
• 17:51
  And get those things that they want to do in a game make sure they get them right
• 17:56
  So what the hell happened then what the hell happened in Wales
• 17:59
  Because I I think Victor I don't totally agree with you because I think like
• 18:06
  Welsh have always played an expansive style of rugby that's got they want to play
• 18:11
  And that's how they brought their kids up so when they're at their best a few years of back they only kicked the ball
• 18:18
  They never played
• 18:19
  Possibly
• 18:21
  Warren ball Warren ball was was
• 18:23
  Warren was getting up in the air chase. Yeah, no mistakes
• 18:27
  That's what they did. I think if you think about the World Cup final in Japan
• 18:30
  63 for South Africa. They didn't play anything at all
• 18:34
  I think there's a generation gap here. I think it's not easy
• 18:39
  I think JK is remembering um
• 18:40
  Wales from the 70s and you're remembering them from the
• 18:43
  2000s
• 18:46
  What about uh
• 18:48
  Just on that point Victor. What about the the front Italy game
• 18:51
  I thought was a brilliant game of rugby the quality I thought was was brilliant
• 18:56
  And Italy contributed to that quality and actually we probably saw
• 19:00
  I think it wasn't in the balance. It was never really in the balance
• 19:03
  But the game was tighter for longer periods than it had been in the last couple of weeks
• 19:07
  So Italy probably pushed them harder than Ireland and Wales. I would argue
• 19:13
  It's a piece obviously. Oh lots of stuff
• 19:16
  But
• 19:17
  I'm maybe maybe this is to your point Victor
• 19:19
  Once they get that the physicality the simple elements of the game set piece
• 19:23
  They've sorted that out they've nailed that and neither they're putting the ball into the hands of
• 19:27
  Kapuatsu and Manichello
• 19:30
  Neither playing with width and a few times I watched them I was thinking they're playing just outside their 22 flanking balls around
• 19:37
  And it looks naive away from home especially
• 19:39
  But then it just looked like they were just backing themselves so much
• 19:42
  I find myself thinking maybe this naivety is actually ambition
• 19:45
  It's courageousness and they're getting rewarded for it
• 19:49
  Not so much in the scoreboard
• 19:50
  But they played some brilliant rugby and they're probably unlucky not to be
• 19:54
  In the game a little bit more towards the end
• 19:57
  What's your thoughts on that Victor? I suppose just with
• 20:00
  That mindset of you know get conservative bring things back do do the basics well and then out to that what's your thoughts
• 20:06
  So I think
• 20:08
  Italy got a big advantage of the moment with the net and that's been doing really well and
• 20:14
  All those guys playing together quite a bit. So really understanding each other
• 20:20
  So all of those decisions are so much easier because say most of those guys pay for the net and as well and
• 20:27
  Like you said, I mean they said peace. They scrum came together
• 20:31
  Uh, they put a lot of teams under pressure with that said peace and they're physical and they get over that
• 20:37
  Advantage line
• 20:37
  So then it is and that's another thing that I had to add so if you play that conservative game
• 20:43
  You need game breakers and they've got a few game breakers at their backs of these turnovers one two pauses
• 20:49
  Those guys can hurt you. So I think it will be a good test for England
• 20:53
  To be interesting to see now they're going to this game because
• 20:58
  I think the Italian team will be very confident. They will be up for it this in
• 21:03
  Italy and it will be a big test for England this weekend
• 21:07
  It'll be the best from the six nations and Victor. I think
• 21:11
  Based on what we see in the last few weeks
• 21:13
  Italy probably have the best from the six nations and they've got one or two guys out on the right side backs
• 21:19
  Who have more X factor than they be else in the six nations barfronts
• 21:23
  I suppose with what they're doing with Adesogba and BLBRE
• 21:26
  But Italy are absolutely they're definitely a threat and it's not just patronizing Italy
• 21:32
  Oh, they've called you know, it's an I you know like that press conference thing. Oh, I know
• 21:36
  Italy you got to be aware of Italy. It's not the Italy of old. They are they are actually
• 21:40
  Significantly significantly better. It's just the time. I think the Italian coach is like busting with pride
• 21:46
  They're waiting to say something. Yeah, good. Okay. I mean, I've been saying it for weeks. I think the the best
• 21:53
  Italian team that I've seen
• 21:55
  There was probably a when Nick Mallet had the side victor they probably went through a bit of a gold in Europe
• 22:00
  But this is the best Italian side I've seen that that French game was incredible. The French are playing
• 22:07
  Like um, like they have four wheel cups. They just play with this confidence
• 22:11
  They never seem to get rattled
• 22:13
  But it was a really good game rugby. I agree with you trimby. I think you know, minichallon
• 22:18
  I've got some game breakers
• 22:20
  They really been a disciplined. I think they do miss a couple of those when you think about the difference and you talked about it before
• 22:28
  I think they miss an extra two big ball carriers victor, you know, when you think about France
• 22:34
  I've got you know a lock big locks that can carry the big props that can carry and while their scrum might be good trimby
• 22:41
  I think to to make that next level they're just missing a couple of big ball carriers that
• 22:47
  Give you just those a couple of extra threats
• 22:48
  But like they started incredibly well. I'm just really proud of of
• 22:52
  Of Italy because the resources that they have is probably a lot less than everyone else. I think um, you know
• 22:58
  I think the coach has done a great job. I just think they're playing well good on them. I mean they got pumped
• 23:02
  Let's not forget that they got pumped like it was 72 points or whatever
• 23:06
  But it didn't feel like that because they were in the game for long periods of time. So
• 23:10
  You know, I think
• 23:12
  The six nations of all it's all the six nations should have a promotion relegation
• 23:16
  Because I think some of these other, you know, teams like Romania and and those those doing a lot of money
• 23:23
  Okay, Georgia Romania those teams, you know, and I think it keep you in my honest, but um
• 23:30
  You know, I just think that the the more
• 23:34
  You know that like the jekyll and hide that we're seeing is great for the game, you know like shit
• 23:40
  We picked England now they could get the wooden spoon
• 23:44
  I just can't ask you about that promotion relegation just to imagine this like
• 23:47
  Because the reality is probably two or three years ago whales would have been relegated, you know, and
• 23:53
  Would they have ever come back? No, no, you're not relegated, mate. You play off against the there's a difference
• 23:58
  You don't go straight down. There's a playoff game. So we said they played played Georgia three years ago
• 24:05
  Georgia comes up and whales comes down and whales can't get back up
• 24:09
  Well, that's a nice administration problem
• 24:12
  The reason the reason why whales are this is what we forget we blame the coaches and we blame the players
• 24:17
  Some up it in whales decided to cut
• 24:21
  High performance budgets and so as they stop putting
• 24:25
  Coaches into schools. They stop spending money on their kids and now they're paying the price
• 24:29
  But no one talks about that. Muppet, right? So if you get relegated. That's why I like the English premier
• 24:35
  Premiership right you get relegated you get your money for a year. You don't make it back up like
• 24:41
  If they got relegated and they stay down it's because the the politicians and the people who are running the game are not doing their job
• 24:49
  End of story
• 24:51
  It just introduces a lot of risk from a financial perspective and then
• 24:56
  investors and
• 24:58
  Partners and all that sort of stuff. It just makes it you know the idea that that wheels wouldn't be in the six nations
• 25:04
  Kind of feels a bit unthinkable
• 25:05
  For all that all the stuff that that rugby does and all different areas and makes mistakes commercially all that sort of
• 25:12
  Six nations is one of the things that rugby has done very very well and
• 25:16
  Mocking around with that
• 25:18
  Intergesting relegation and introducing the risk that comes with that and then financial risk
• 25:23
  It I don't I don't it's a playoff game. It's a playout game
• 25:28
  But if they lose that it's just it's it is cry it is I mean
• 25:33
  Welles Robby is we've already even the last couple weeks. We said it's crisis, but I mean it could be England could be England the Schema
• 25:39
  We would all enjoy that
• 25:42
  Like I don't agree I don't agree with you at all Trimby. I totally disagree with that because I think that
• 25:51
  Lazing this comes with all that money
• 25:54
  all right
• 25:55
  And if you have promotion relegation then you are like I'm not saying the players and the coaches
• 26:00
  I'm actually saying all the staff and everyone around the environments going this money is going to go away unless we actually do it
• 26:07
  I reckon it just create way more hype performance off the field
• 26:11
  Hmm it creates a jeopardy it definitely does it definitely does that, but I just don't feel like six nations
• 26:17
  They're already there's there is there's jeopardy in terms of
• 26:21
  Like position in the table and it's so fickle like you've just like how art our conversation has completely changed in one week and two weeks
• 26:27
  There's enough excitement in the tournament that I don't think we need that level of jeopardy in the rest of me
• 26:32
  Would you be saying that if England was at the bottom of the table? I would I would I
• 26:37
  Whatever if earlier I would say we need Welsh Robby. We also need unfortunately. We need English rugby
• 26:44
  It'd be quite funny that wouldn't it?
• 26:46
  Yeah, it would be funny
• 26:47
  It would but just for a cheap giggle it would be a bit much. Don't you think rugby don't you think rugby needs Georgia?
• 26:53
  Don't you think rugby needs a pathway? I think I think the championship should have the same thing because
• 27:00
  Victor you come in because we've had two guys arguing you're the referee. No
• 27:04
  JTJK is talking so much nonsense at the moment. I'm with Trimby on this. I'm in a six-nation commercial value with Wales
• 27:11
  JTJ England. That's just huge games you can even not have Wales in it in a six-nation so
• 27:17
  Yeah, JTJ is talking out on a lot of months
• 27:20
  Georgia has their chance
• 27:22
  Georgia has their chance in the summer when they played Ireland and
• 27:25
  The stadium was half full. There was less than 10,000 people there
• 27:29
  It was it shits back to go no one enjoyed it in Ireland
• 27:34
  in Ireland
• 27:35
  No, I in in Georgia
• 27:37
  Ireland heard there played
• 27:39
  Played Georgia and then played Portugal and it was a waste of everybody's time
• 27:44
  Can I just move the subject on a bit?
• 27:47
  Just going on to one of my favorite players Henry Pollock. There was a quote today from Eddie Jones
• 27:52
  And I thought this was really really unfair. He compared them to Bob Skinstatt. He said that
• 27:58
  You know, he said he looks good for 20 minutes, but you know, he goes missing
• 28:02
  I thought a that was really insulting to a bloody good player
• 28:05
  But um much one time
• 28:08
  Just a big insult for what we skingest at
• 28:10
  He's your name
• 28:12
  Yeah, yeah
• 28:14
  My top line is full of pictures of Henry Pollock being held down by an Irish player in people laughing at him
• 28:20
  So um how did you see his performance? I'll probably come up for him. Um, I still think
• 28:27
  At his age what he brings to the game at international level
• 28:31
  You don't want to seem starting the game
• 28:33
  Uh, but when he comes off the bench, he does have impacts. So
• 28:38
  At this moment, I don't think he's a starter and I don't think you can mention him in the same name as a richie mcco
• 28:45
  Or Peter Steph the toy or any of these uh flankers, but um
• 28:50
  Yeah, I think he's got some value
• 28:53
  He's still got some value
• 28:56
  Uh coming off the bench. He does have an impact. Uh, I hate to say that but when I watch him this excitement
• 29:03
  Uh, he does bring something but uh
• 29:05
  Unfunsched at this stage. He's definitely not a starter
• 29:08
  Here's another question for you. Here's another question for you
• 29:12
  So I don't like to do this very often, but I agree with Victor
• 29:15
  So um, you know, I was with the profisher yesterday and I love spending time with the professor Wayne Smith
• 29:21
  And we're talking about hybrid players
• 29:24
  Right
• 29:25
  So players that can play on the wing play 12 play it loose forward and it looks like rugby is going that way
• 29:31
  I don't know if I agree with it
• 29:33
  Right, I don't know if I agree with hybrid players
• 29:35
  But I think that this young kid came on in november against the all blacks and he was out wide put a kick in
• 29:43
  Like I agree with Victor
• 29:45
  It's okay to be an impact player
• 29:47
  It's okay to be an amazing impact player and you don't need to start the physicality early in a game of rugby
• 29:53
  If you're his size compared to you know some of the other players and you bring him on late and he finds himself out wide on the wing
• 30:00
  He can do special stuff
• 30:01
  So I think we need to think not as traditionally, you know
• 30:06
  Um, and and that that that surprises me from any because I don't think you could ever compare Bobby Skinstad
• 30:14
  Um with Pollock right now
• 30:16
  Right or ever
• 30:18
  Just because other different players. So this guy's a hybrid
• 30:22
  And he shouldn't start he should come off the bench and and they should let him kick they should let him turn up off on the wing
• 30:26
  They should let him
• 30:28
  You know create that that that that unpredictable part of his game
• 30:33
  I don't think it writes off the option of him starting though
• 30:36
  Like at the weekend it didn't go that well
• 30:38
  I would argue he was one of the few guys earlier on who was getting over the game like me again
• 30:42
  Getting his nose through looking for our fluids hitting the deck getting back up
• 30:46
  He brought a lot of that energy though. He's seen him bring off the bench from the start
• 30:50
  It wasn't enough energy like I just couldn't get across the line
• 30:53
  And it might have been a very different game if George Ford nails those two kicks to the corner
• 30:58
  Or maybe they'll hold on to ball or maybe Alice can't she doesn't drop that what you know
• 31:02
  There's there's little things that could have gone differently for England at the start of the game
• 31:04
  And it could be in a different game altogether
• 31:07
  I did feel like he brought a lot of that vibrancy and excitement and energy
• 31:11
  Um, so uh
• 31:12
  Yes, that is more suited to coming off the bench and everybody's seen that he's demonstrated he can definitely do that
• 31:17
  He hasn't demonstrated successfully that he can start but I think
• 31:22
  He's always 21 years old. He could easily be a starter man in any years time in a couple of years time
• 31:29
  And he'll get another opportunity and next time you're on you could easily take
• 31:32
  Maybe with him and curry in the looser. Maybe just to like if you they replace curry and he can find more to the ball or whatever
• 31:40
  Can also or maybe not or maybe not maybe he's going to be the world's
• 31:45
  Just who cares. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's the
• 31:49
  the
• 31:51
  Ricardo when you're going to ask about super ragbie mate
• 31:54
  Well, I was
• 32:01
  Victor that is that is rude of you that is rude
• 32:06
  Continuing you're the bloody traders and you left us. Oh, what's it brownies that really well?
• 32:10
  Oh, yeah, well, I'm I'm in Christchurch. I'm looking over the new stadium
• 32:14
  It's just around there. It looks fantastic. I could have seen
• 32:18
  Have you seen that trimby you probably you guys
• 32:21
  You don't care about super ragbie anymore, but um
• 32:25
  Like I've never just been watching the winter Olympics to be honest
• 32:29
  Well, you stick to your ice game and jk you just tell us about the about the brumbies
• 32:33
  Crusaders. Oh, I've never seen that from the Crusaders like I'm sorry to say it 15 times
• 32:39
  But jekyll and hide I've never I've never seen ragbie like it. I don't know what's going on
• 32:44
  Victor says, you know, it's two percent now and anyone can win on the day
• 32:47
  And we need to think differently about the game
• 32:49
  But when you see the crusaders get pumped by 50 and capitulate
• 32:53
  I've never seen that you never seen that
• 32:59
  Never seen that before you know the blues I was happy the blues won away. That was an important one
• 33:04
  Crusaders are 2 and 0 after winning it last year
• 33:08
  um
• 33:09
  Yeah, so it's it's
• 33:11
  It's like the six nations down here. She's all over the place. Very they're very happy in Australia because you know
• 33:15
  The Australian teams are winning
• 33:17
  You know, that's the first time I think in the Australian teams put 50 points on a opponent in New Zealand
• 33:22
  um
• 33:23
  You know jogging since playing well for the for the waritas, you know, I mean
• 33:28
  It's hard for Australia in this market because you know
• 33:32
  There's so much attention given to rugby league in AFL but they'll grab any
• 33:36
  Any positives, you know, and like they're just about having a parade
• 33:41
  for two game two two within games
• 33:43
  um
• 33:44
  But you know, it's a good sign for Australian rugby. I tell you what
• 33:49
  Um, I tell you what victor you would have really really enjoyed the Highlanders chiefs game
• 33:55
  It was a really good game of football. It was really physical, you know, you see Jamie Joseph's
• 34:01
  In print on the Highlanders the chiefs played well. It went right down to the wire. It was like an old school
• 34:07
  um
• 34:08
  Game of of of footy. It was a really good game. Yeah, in Ricardo like the Australians. I think um, we need them like
• 34:17
  I find what you say patronising
• 34:19
  Like that they they should be like the best team in the world like they've always been and all of a sudden now
• 34:26
  We're saying oh isn't it good? They've won. They used to win all the time
• 34:29
  When did we start saying oh, well, that's good. I'm playing well
• 34:34
  You know, it's not 1986 a
• 34:37
  Well, good point
• 34:41
  No, I mean, I mean look, I got texts from most of my Australian friends saying the letters was coming back
• 34:47
  You know um after two games. So you know, they're cock a hoop
• 34:51
  But um, you know, you wouldn't write the Crusaders off after a couple of games
• 34:55
  But that was that was a surprise. I mean it and watching the game
• 34:59
  The Crusaders were in the fight for till 10 minutes to the end and then they were like three late dry scored
• 35:04
  So I guess my biggest fear and if you guys would just be a little less arrogant in the northern hemisphere
• 35:09
  And I'll talk to you about northern hemisphere victor because you're northern hemisphere now. He's one of us
• 35:14
  I'd be really interested if you watch that chief's
• 35:17
  Game because I really need to understand and I'll need your honesty victor and you trimby
• 35:23
  Although you're bloody bit of a fear where the friend because you only turn up when the show in Ireland wins
• 35:27
  But anyway besides that
• 35:30
  I'm really interested for you guys to tell us what you think of the level of super rugby because I'm really worried that it's
• 35:38
  It's dropped
• 35:39
  Quite considerably and that's a real worry for us
• 35:42
  Especially where because we're going to have to go into test matches go to South Africa
• 35:48
  You know, whereas I still think six nation prepares
• 35:52
  Those teams for the other tournaments, you know what I mean? So I'd love for you guys to to have a look at that chief's
• 35:59
  Hard on the scope of a brilliant
• 36:02
  This weekend. I'll be back in front of the TV watching all those games. I love watching super rugby. So
• 36:08
  I'll be watching
• 36:10
  Just tell me whether crusade is because I only saw the highlights
• 36:13
  Do they have a few of the all black plays not playing at the moment?
• 36:17
  Or is it full strength except injuries? Are they raised there though?
• 36:23
  There's a couple but it would like there's no excuses for that like they had enough back
• 36:29
  Of their of their top players for sure
• 36:33
  Yeah, all the old blacks are pretty much back unless there's some special cases
• 36:38
  You know, no, there's no excuses from New Zealand Victor you know that
• 36:43
  Okay, hi closer in New Zealand to get another high coach
• 36:47
  Don't rush us. It's pretty time. It's this week. It's this week Trimby. So
• 36:51
  The interviews I speak in the board meeting is
• 36:55
  our next Tuesday
• 36:56
  So today week is the board meeting to
• 36:59
  Radify what they decide this week. So yeah, we're getting close Matt getting close
• 37:05
  And apparently not happy is he just taking himself
• 37:09
  Back to Japan that that was that was bullshit. That was incredibly poor journalism and
• 37:15
  Um, you know, that was really that was really unfair on Arty
• 37:19
  And that's where I went on true
• 37:21
  No, it wasn't true at all mate. It wasn't true at all, you know
• 37:25
  Um, whether they whether they had some confrontation as coach and player
• 37:30
  Possibly but there's no way Arty had anything to do with the player of all that was just bullshit
• 37:37
  Right, that was really and that's really really dangerous that
• 37:41
  Um, you know people speculated about that because it's unfair
• 37:46
  What I have heard is that the process was very very fair
• 37:50
  Right, and it wasn't personal
• 37:53
  as a as a
• 37:55
  review so
• 37:57
  You know, I think it's amazing though. It's like a story like that just becomes folklore and there aren't just accepts it and that sort of
• 38:04
  Goes down in history as part of the story, you know
• 38:07
  Well, I think I think part of the problem Ricardo and Trimby, you know
• 38:11
  Like you said when are we going to have a coach
• 38:13
  Part of the problem is these things need to happen faster
• 38:17
  So that people don't fill the void, you know, like I couldn't work out who the third coach was and then I heard yesterday
• 38:24
  There's only two that are going to be interviewed. I don't know whether that's truth or not
• 38:29
  Um, you know, and then we're Steve Hanson's been approached so so when you leave that void
• 38:35
  That's what happens and there was definitely something there was definitely something
• 38:40
  Um, not right with the all blacks and no Vemba and I think
• 38:45
  That sort of created the void
• 38:47
  And um, you know, that's that's what happens and we took
• 38:52
  We've talked a lot about problems and and jekyll and hides um, but let's just finish on one positive note
• 38:59
  Victor's South Africa saw the best team in the world
• 39:04
  Of course, what do you mean? Are you still arguing about it?
• 39:07
  No, I just needed to confirm it
• 39:09
  Starting your France is not far behind
• 39:11
  French team is very close
• 39:14
  You haven't mentioned um to world cup wins
• 39:16
  And it's just it's weird that we're in 40 minutes into this podcast. You haven't mentioned it
• 39:20
  I'm sorry my bestia to go through one show without saying that we did double
• 39:26
  I think the cardo is so close
• 39:29
  So I think the world's best team will be decided on the greatest rivalries trip in august
• 39:35
  Oh, yeah, there's selfish too. I'm so happy
• 39:39
  I'm so no trimby. I'm so happy that we've gone back to tours. I reckon this bullshit that we play
• 39:45
  In the summers crack. We need to get back to decent tours. We're we're we're Ireland come down and they play
• 39:51
  Bloody one canoe and we kicked the shit out of you midweek. What we used to
• 39:55
  Well, let's go. So how do you think Australia are feeling about this?
• 39:58
  If you're just given off to victor or by jump and ship and
• 40:01
  Leave in suburbia and you odds are doing your own thing. Australia is like there. I think we're
• 40:07
  invited to this number party. I think this is they just want to make money
• 40:11
  Yeah, in South Africa
• 40:14
  The JKT
• 40:16
  We're looking we're looking after we're looking after our greatest rivals. Trimby
• 40:21
  Like you know, it's going to be meant to be so much sitting here talking about not having a population
• 40:27
  Iced lines to it
• 40:29
  So you can keep your 60 million Trimby
• 40:31
  Bloody hell
• 40:33
  All right, come on, guys. You're pulling apart. Let's um, yes, we're unraveling
• 40:37
  Yeah, as soon as as soon as um as soon as we mentioned two will cups by South Africa. It's time to close the show
• 40:43
  So uh, that's the end of rivals this week and uh
• 40:47
  We'll catch you next week to see if South Africa is still the number one team in the world
• 40:50
  Well, I hope to see hope to see you next week Trimby because you only turn up when Ireland wins
• 40:54
  So it'd be nice if you came if they lost and I'll play in this week and see you'll definitely see me next week
• 41:01
  You