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Franco & The Modern Right | Yaron & Nikos Dialogues · Yaron Brook Show

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Oh missing one thing.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Yep, we're live. I can see myself, Yes.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I can see I can see you too, and I
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: can see me, and all right, let's do this. Oh
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: can you hear the music?
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  Speaker 2: No, because I've closed the streaming because I didn't want
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  Speaker 2: to echo.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Can you guys on the chat hear the music? I'm
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: just curious. I don't think they can. I don't know
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: if they know they can't hear it. All right, well,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: we're gonna get started. So one of these days I'll
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: figure this out. I thought I had to figure it out.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Yesterday for the AMA. It took like fifteen minutes. Will
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: be fifteen minutes late yesterday and again today we're fifteen
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  Speaker 1: minutes late. And okay, so here's the question. Can you
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  Speaker 1: hear me?
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Can you hear me?
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Can you hear a Nicos? Those those are the those
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: are the open questions right now. So I'm anxiously waiting
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: on the chat. Yes, Jennifer, sis give me more details.
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  Speaker 1: So is the volume good? Is Nicos? Is volume good?
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  Speaker 1: You know?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah? And let people know that Yarn's volume. Today's a
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: special occasion. So don't expect Pink Floyd concert sound.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Specially Pink Floyd concert sound. You know, I can barely
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  Speaker 1: hear a Nicos in my system. I have no idea why,
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  Speaker 1: but if you guys can hear him good, then that's phenomenal. Okay,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: So welcome do you on a Nicos show? And this
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: is the first year on a Nicos show We're doing
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  Speaker 1: while I am on the road. So usually I have
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  Speaker 1: my home setup and that has been perfected now through
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  Speaker 1: many trials and tribulations over many years, so that one works.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: My road setup is and I'm using a road thing.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: So anyway, my road setup is working progress obviously. You
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  Speaker 1: know those of you who are there struggled with it
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  Speaker 1: yesterday and Thomas says, I can barely hear you. Thomas,
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  Speaker 1: I think that really is on your end. Everybody else
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: can hear me, so I think I think you just
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: need to jack up the volume somehow, So I don't
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  Speaker 1: think that's on our end. I will keep refinding and
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: keep working on this and keep trying to figure out
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  Speaker 1: what the hell is going on so that it works properly,
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  Speaker 1: but and at some point I'll have it down anyway.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: We are talking today about Franco the the Spanish dictator
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: who ruled Spain for thirty six years, I think, and
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: has we come now as we'll see a darling of
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: certain people on the rate. So we thought we thought
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: it would be a good opportunity to go over Franco,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: particularly given that you know, next week I'll be in Spain,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: so you know, I don't know what the connection there is,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: but I'll be able to I'll be able to report
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: from Spain about how things are going. Also, next week
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: we'll be doing the show on Saturday, not on Sunday,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: so I think Nico says okay with that, So I
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: think it'll be I'll let you know the exact time,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: given that Spain is one hour ahead of where I
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: am now behind where I'm now, so we'll figure it out.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: I'm getting slowly inching closer to Nicos's time zone, so
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: at some point I might actual which his time zone,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: but for now, no, okay, So why don't we when
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: we talk about Franco, who uh Nichols? When we went
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: to give us a little bit of background on you know,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: where he where he came from.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: So, first of all, most people would think that we
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: came up with this topic because Franco is very popular
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: literally these days, many people in the Maga write, seeing
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: the influx of immigrants to the Spanish Morocco border, which
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: is on the on the south of Spain towards the
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Moroccan side, they remember that there was a time that
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: span that Spain was a better place, presumably because it
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: was ruled by a person who had everything that they liked.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: He was authoritarian, he was very religious, and most importantly,
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: he killed communists. So this is Franco, and this is
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: who we're going to talk today about. So Franco was
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: born in eighteen ninety two from a family of a
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: military people, from a family that had a big tradition
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: in being distinguished navy people. And as for example, for
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: our generation or for people a bit younger than me,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: the experience that defined them was nine to eleven. And
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: this was the experience that formed the worldview. The experience
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: that defined the youth of Franco was the national humiliation
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: that Spain experienced in eighteen ninety eight. So remember, Spain
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: used to be an empire, expanding to different continents and
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: being the most ferocious naval power in the world, the
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Spanish Armada, and yet in eighteen ninety eight spain experience
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: is a humiliation in Cuba, in Puerto Rico and in Philippines.
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  Speaker 2: It is losing from the United States. And it's not
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: just a defeat, it's an absolute siasco. So Spain in
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: these naval battles lost four hundred men, whereas the Americans
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: lost in total something between two and nine sailors, not
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: nine thousand nine people. So the Spaniards had one hundred
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: times the casulties of the Americans. And this made them
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: realize that we are not an empire anymore. We have
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: lost the glory of the past. We used to be
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: the nation of conquistadores, the nation of Isabella, and the
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: nature of the great emperors who made Christianity proud by
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: reconquisting Spain from the Muslims. And now we're the joke
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: of the world. And the main question was why did
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: this happen? How can Spain regain its glory? And the
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: conclusions that Franco drew was that the problem was Spain
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: has lost the Spanish values that made it great. And
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: also this had to do with influences that were a
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  Speaker 2: Spanish that were not that were alien to Spain, and
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: in his mind these influences were liberalism, the freemasons for
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: some reason. In his mind, Freemasons and liberalism was the
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: same somewhere there. Later you can add the Jews, and
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: much later also the Communists. So did you really think
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: it was the Jews? I mean as that you're just
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: doin that auto No, no, no, later later Franco in
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: his mind, Freemason, Jews and Communists, it's one and the same.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: They are the agents that and he's open about it.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: When he enters Madrid at the end of the Civil War,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: we'll get there. His first speech he names Big Capital
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  Speaker 2: also enemy, Big Capital, Communists, Jews, Freemasons, everyone in the midds.
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  Speaker 2: So anything which is alien to the Spain, to the
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  Speaker 2: Spanish tradition of aristocracy, of the Church, of the Catholic Church,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: and of Spanish glory, everything alien to Spain is to
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  Speaker 2: be is to be suspicious of anyway. He's not a
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  Speaker 2: particularly bright kid. He's also quite the sort. But he's
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: a good soldier. So he cannot enlist in the navy
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  Speaker 2: like his father, and he always carries the same for this,
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  Speaker 2: because his father never saw him as a big man enough.
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  Speaker 2: But he distinguishes himself in the infantry and he fights
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  Speaker 2: in the Moroccan wars, so Spain, the only let's say,
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  Speaker 2: empire that is left. The only colony which is left
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: is towards Spanish Morocco. But there they have to face
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: picture people that are like the Hamas of the time,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: people with some much worse tactics, indigenous populations there that
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: are not kidding. So that's where he gets his military experience.
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  Speaker 2: And actually he becomes the young guests general in Europe
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: by the age of thirty three. Somewhere in the nineteen twenties,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: he's at genera. Now what's happening in the meantime in Spain.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Spain is one of the most backward European countries. The
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: political system is you have in power sometimes quote liberals,
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: sometimes conservatives, but it is the army that is in charge.
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  Speaker 2: So the elections are a first. Usually the two parties
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: agree that every few years, we say in power and
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: when some officers in the army are not happy with
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: the politicians, they make a coup, so they say, and
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: usually it's blood less cool. They say, gentlemen, you're not
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  Speaker 2: running Spain as it should be. Let's try it again
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  Speaker 2: with someone else, someone else on the on the side.
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  Speaker 2: And all this goes on till the nineteen twenties, when
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: we have a dictatorship by a guy called the de Rivera,
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  Speaker 2: Primo de Rivera, who takes Spain to the nineteen thirties,
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  Speaker 2: and in nineteen thirties ninety thirty one Spain tries to
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  Speaker 2: become something like European democracy. The king, King Alfonso abdicates
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  Speaker 2: and Spain finds itself in the early thirties with one
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  Speaker 2: of the weirdest political formations in any country. You have
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  Speaker 2: almost no one in the center, and you have every
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  Speaker 2: radical force that you can imagine, from the far left
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  Speaker 2: to the far right, and you have actually a lot
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  Speaker 2: of political violence. Imagine that when they have a general strike,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: it's not just workers don't work. Workers take guns, They
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: occupy factories, Sometimes they occupy the whole city. Sometimes the
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  Speaker 2: army has to it been actually bombard a whole town
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  Speaker 2: to suppress workers rebellions. And this is how we get
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  Speaker 2: in ninety thirty six to the most cruid elections where
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: because of all this political violence, all the parties of
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: the left and all the parties of the right come
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  Speaker 2: together in big coalitions because they also had a very
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: weird electoral system. So in ninety thirty six you have
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  Speaker 2: the most polarized elections you can imagine. And in these
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  Speaker 2: elections the winner is the Popular Front, a political formation
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  Speaker 2: that includes from center left to socialists, to Stalinists, to
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  Speaker 2: Trotzkyists to even anarchists. Anarchists are a great force in Spain,
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  Speaker 2: a big force in Spain. We can talk about it,
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  Speaker 2: about it soon. And of course the right is not
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  Speaker 2: comfortable with this at all. To make things work, the
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: left is committing acts of political violence. They're taking over
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  Speaker 2: some lands, there's violence against priests, and the right, mostly
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  Speaker 2: through the army, organizes a military coup. And this is
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  Speaker 2: how we find ourselves in July of nineteen thirty six,
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  Speaker 2: with the army rising up with a plan that one
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  Speaker 2: of its key master minds was Franco, not the key mastermind,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: but one of the key master minds. And he flies
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  Speaker 2: to Morocco and the Army of Morocco, which was the
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  Speaker 2: most fight worthy parts of the Spanish army because they
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: had fighting experience fighting the local He was.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: The command of that army before that.
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  Speaker 2: Right Franco used to be the commander of that army.
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  Speaker 2: Then he goes back to Spain. He runs a military
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: academy in Saragossa. Then the academy is closed by the
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: first Democratic government, and then the Popular Front has the
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: stupid idea to send him somewhere to how do you
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: call these islands that many people go these days for,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: like towards the Enerife.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Cape No, no, no, no.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Anyway to some far away island islands, the Canary Islands, canoe, yes,
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  Speaker 2: because they think the further he is, the safer we are,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: whereas actually the further he is, the more flexibility he
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: has to organize the coup. So he flies back with
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: a private plane. He flies to Morocco, and he organizes
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: the uprising of the Morocco Army. And let's pause here
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: because this is the beginning of the civil war. So
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: let's make sure that everyone goes is right. And now
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: I can go through who was in which side of
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: the civil war, because again I don't think there's ever
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: been a history in country with so many crazy, polarized,
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: horrible political forces on both sides of the axis.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: And so you know, before he goes to Morocco, so
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: there's a these leftist forces in Spain who are engaged
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: in So who are these leftist forces?
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: You know, it's so complicated we need the white board.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, we need a white bird.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, we need the whiteboard. So I know, we objectivists
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: don't believe in the left right axis. Okay, but bear
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: with me because without the axis, this will make nose.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Believe in the left right access. We just don't believe
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: it's the right access.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Okay. So this is the wrong axis, but the only
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: way to understand Spain. So on the far left you
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: have anarchists. Now, when people today hear are the term anarchists,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: they think of antifa or like some soil boys. These
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: are very serious people. These are workers, work in the minds,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: very familiar with violence. And these are people who take
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: anarchism almost as a religion. Actually, we should have started
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: with this. In Spain. Everyone is religious in some way,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: even the atheists. My favorite line about Spain is in
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Spain even the atheists are Catholic.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: So you find so the anarchists. There's a tradition there, right,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I mean it goes back to the nineteenth century to
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: the anarchists. I mean they were active in Russia, they
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: were active in Central Europe. This is the same style anarchists.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Leftist anarchists who engage in violence, violent actions, These are
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: not the the libertarian anarchists around the hypothas.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: These are not Varians. Yeah, these are not These are
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: not badians. What type of people they are. They are
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: the type of people who are running their own foundry
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: for making bombs. They are the types of people who
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: steal gold from banks and with this gold they buy
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: thousands of weapons before the civil war, all this in
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: times of peace. They are the type of people who
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: because they're very powerful in the area of Asturias where
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: they have the gold mines, they have many people who
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: know how to use dynamite and these dynamiteros would lay
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: a very important role later on. So they control the
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: biggest one of the biggest trade unions, the Senatech Confederation Trabajo.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: So they are the most radicals. They want revolution right
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: now and abolition of the state right now. Then you
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: have Trotskists or people who the Stalinists, the orthodox Communists
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: view as Trotschists, so think of it non Stalinist communists.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: So communists who are not part of the Communist Party.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Then you have a socialist party, but not like the
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Labor in the UK. The leader of the Socialist Party
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: is the guy with the nickname the Spanish lenin large
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: O Caballero and the youth of the Socialist Party are
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: so radicals that they become part of the communist youth.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: And you have a very small Communist Party which at
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: the elections of ninety thirty six there's somewhere like three percent.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: So at this point communists are not important. So you're
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: right wing idiots are gonna say Franco say it's Spain
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: from communists. Communists before Franco was not yet prevalent in Spain,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: although they're were indeed the revolutionary forces, both the anarchists
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: but also the socialist you also have on this camp.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: If you know anything about Spain people, you know that
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: there are some regions in Spain where they don't feel
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: very Spanish, the Basques and the Catalans even today, I
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: think I've mentioned in the previous show. If you want
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: to see how these people, the people in the Basque
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: region and people in Barcelona, how they feel about Spain,
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: try to find a video on YouTube of any Spanish
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Cup final where the two teams is Barcelona and a
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: team from the Basque country. Before the final, then Orchestra
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: places the Spanish anthem marcha real you cannot hear the
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: from the boosh because both of the fans this is
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: not around them. They do as if there's no tomorrow. Now,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: these are not hardcore communists, or most of them are
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: not even socialists, but they want to support the socialist
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: government because they see it as a way to have
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: more of an independence within Spain. So this is let's say,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: the red side in the Civil War, the side of
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: the left so to speak, or the republican side as
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: it became known, also the side of the legitimate government.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Now let's see who's on the other side. More towards
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: the quote center. You have the conservatives. That these are
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: not conservatives like the Tories in the UK. These are
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: people who want an authoritarian, Catholic, very strong conservative state.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Like they're not like fascists who give fascists slutes, but
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: they're not like, these are not like you're liberal conservatives.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Then we have the royalists. But because why should this
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: be so simple, we have two types of royalists. The
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: people who think that Alfonso is the proper hair of
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: the throne, who are just royalists, and then you have
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: the people who think that Carloss of the Bourbons should
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: be the king. These are not just royalists, they are
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: also traditionalists. And this would form the roal militia, the Rackets.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: And I'll just tell you this. The way they would
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: go to battle is they would take communion from the
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: priests and they would be okay, now we're ready to die,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: a bit like the anarchists. Everyone was ready to die,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: everyone was ready to sacrifice.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Everyone thought like thets.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Exactly today, I post on Twitter the top ten songs
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: anthems of the Spanish Civil War. Go listen to the
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: anthems of the carlyss or the anthems of the Spanish Ligion.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: It is literally death worship the anthem of the Spanish Legion.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: This is a form of the army that was created
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: by Franco decades before the Civil War. Their anthem is
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: called el noobio de la muerte, which means I am
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: the boyfriend of death, like death is my girlfriend, Death
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: is my beloved. I don't have a woman, Death is
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: my partner. And then at the far right, let's say
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: the far end, you have the Phalank, the el Falante.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: These are proper fascists, led by a particularly charismatic and
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: interesting person called the Juan Antonio Primo de Rivera, the
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: son of the guy who was dictator in the twenties,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: who doesn't play a role in the civil war because
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: before the war starts he's arrested by the Republicans and
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: a few months after the beginning of the war he's executed.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: But an executed leader is great news from Frank for
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Franco because he doesn't So now Frank call is the
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: head of this coalition, and with the main charismatic figure
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: of this coalition out of the way, Franco can now
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: be the leader of the people who rise against against
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: the republic. So you see, this is this is not
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: a good place to be if you are anyone who
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: is what today we'd call, I don't know, centrist, classical liberal,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Like the first the best thing you should do is
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: take the first whatever train leave the country. There's no
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: space for you here. Here you have crazies on the
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: one side, crazy on the other side, war and collectivist
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: and death worship person on both sides, and it's going
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: to get ugly and it's going to be a mess.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: So what kind of so the left is is uh,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: you know, threatening the existing government. The military is then
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: stepping in than goes to Morocco, he brings back with
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: him his Moroccan troops. Yes, is the best battle tested,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: you know troops in in Spain? Does the army do
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: the troops necessarily fall into that side? What if you
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: what if you're a centrist then you in the army?
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: What what what happens to you?
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: So what happens in the first hours of the coup.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: First of all, it's a matter of luck. So for example,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: there are some particular towns when the government allows Oh
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: I forgot to say that almost every group that you
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: saw there has militias, has street fighting unions, street fighting groups.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: So in some towns, including Madrid, the government allows the
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: militias of the anarchists and of the socialists and of
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: the communists, it allows them weapons. When the when the
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: workers are allowed to have weapons, they managed to suppress
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: the uprising of the army. In other areas, the uprising
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: of the army is successful, and in other areas you
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: have battles within the town the militias, the worker militias
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: versus the army. There are some officers who do not
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: follow the coup, and many officers who wait to see
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: what's going to happen, so they wait it out for
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: the first hour to see where the tide will go.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Very soon, Franco gets support by Nazi Germany and Fascist
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Italy in terms of having planes to fly from Morocco
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: to the mainland, because he had his own people in
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: the mainland, but these people were directing armies that were
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: not battle tested. The best armies were the armies of Morocco,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: so it becomes very crucial. How are we going to
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: take these people from Morocco and fly them to Spain.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: The navy is controlled by the Republic, so we cannot
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: see them if we are Franco, so we have to
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: send them via planes. And this is when the intervention
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: of Nazi Germany and Fascis Italy is crucial. And see
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: see how the role of lack. Sometimes there's some Spanish
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: who go to Hitler actually who they go to rudel
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Hess and then to Hitler, and Hitler had just watched Zigfried. Initially,
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Hitlery is not very excited to help, but he's watched Zigfried,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: so he's in a in a state of mind. He
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: starts giving a speech about how he's gonna crass balls,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: and by the end of his little monologue. He decides, Okay,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna help you, and he gives to the operation
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: a name which is out of Zigfried. But now I
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: can't remember exactly exactly that name. So the most important
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: thing now Franco's armies has planes. So with the planes
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: they go to imagine somewhere Sevilla, close to Sevilla, and
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: they occupy most of the western part of Spain. The
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: occupy Sevilla, they occupy. They occupy towards the north, not
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: the full of Basque country, but they have one third
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: of Spain. So at the beginning of the civil war,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: one third of Spain, mostly towards the west, is in
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: the hands of Franco. Already that part of Spain their
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: experience a horror. We're going to talk a bit more
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: about the terror. And on the other side of Spain,
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: mostly in Barcelona and Madrid, the coup is suppressed. The
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: government is now obsolete and the power is in the
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: hands of mostly the communists, the socialist and the anarchist.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: So you have at the same time a war and
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: the social revolution, the first and only proper workers revolution
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: in a western country. So factories are occupied. It is
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: a proper revolutionary situation. Also on the side of the republic,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: you have atrocities, particularly in the first weeks. And this
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: is where we are, let's say one week, couple of
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: weeks within the coup, so we entered August. The coup
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: has not succeeded fully. So what started as a coup
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: is now a civil war, a proper civil war. The
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: legitimate government with some army and a lot of militias,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: but not battle tested. And on the other side, fewer
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: soldiers but battle tested, and with Italy and Nazi Germany
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: already having committed we're going to help Franco. We want
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: to crash Bolsavice, because that's how they see the left
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: in Spain.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: So the Spanish wars haven't described as pretty horrific. You know,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of people die during this war, and so
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: what was going on? I mean civilians who care in
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: the mirror, the people who didn't want to take side.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: What happens to them others such people?
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: So first of all, what does it mean you don't
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: want to take sides? If you're in the army, you
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: have to take sides. If you're in a trade union
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: and your town is occupied by the by Franco. It
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter if you're a right wing or a conservative
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: trade unions, your trade unions, you're going to be executed immediately,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: like there's no there's no processes and things like that.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: But the wars, the warst atrocities happened to towns or
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: villages that put some resistance and were taken by forces
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: of Franco that included Moroccan troops, not Spanish troops based
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: on Morocco, but Moroccans, so Arabs who were fighting for
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: the Franco forces. These Arabs. Imagine October seventh. You don't
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: have to imagine you we've all seen it. Imagine that
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: happening in every town, every village that the Moroccan troops
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: actually occupied. So it was it was not just that
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: we put you on the wall and we killed you.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: It was war stuff. And this is preliminary comment. This
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: is why I get disgusted by people who say Franco
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: saved the West or his Franco did the things that
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: are stained in the history of the West, a stain
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: even in the history of Spanish Catholicism. I would say,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: in a recent in recent era, So Franco is the
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: embarrassment of Spain and of the West. If you know,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know want to enter into details, if you
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: know what his troops did in every town that they
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: that they occupied.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: And it's kind of ironic that people think right now,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: oh thank I would have never allowed these you know,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: these Moroccans to get into this town. But he was.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: He was using Moroccan troops. I mean, this is you know,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: he was actually using them to oppress us on people
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: in Spain.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: He was bringing the Moroccan troops and promising them women
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: as loot. So someone could say, come on, you're over.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: There have been incidents of violating women even in the
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: First World War, Yes, but if it happened, you would
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: find those who did it and you would kill them,
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: or at best you would keep quiet in embarrassment. Francos
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: generals and Francos military leaders were boasting. There was a
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: guy who was boasting on the radio, high ranking officer
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: who was boasting, the men of the Republican women are
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: not real men. Your women will see what who are
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: the real men when we enter the towns and the villages.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: So they're not clever enough to they're not clever enough
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: to hide it. So this is what this is what
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: happening now on the Republican side. Usually the victims of
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: the persecution are officers who have any relationship with the
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: or are thought to have any relationship with the regime,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: and some priests, and that was that was also a
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: war crime. By the way, many many priests and nuns died.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: The idea that nuns were raped. This is an urban myth.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Even the Francois after the war could not find evidence
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: except maybe one case. But the fact that the Republicans
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: in the first weeks killed priests and nuns, that's true.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: So you have a trustees from both sides. So you see,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: there's not much space for neutrality because there were some
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: categories of people that by the mere fact that you
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: are of this profession, if your town falls in the
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: wrong hands, you're dead. And if you if you're now
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: on our side, you either fight or you're an enemy.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: So there's no space for any for any neutrality.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: So there's a famous there's a famous painting by Picasso
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Gerni of a of a of a massacre and the
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: women of a city tell us a little bit about this.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's in spite of it being Picasso and
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: it being disjointed. You get a certain real sense of
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: horror from the paintings. So it's probably of all Picasso's work,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: it's probably the one that resonates the most, just because
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: he actually gets a real emotion across of something holific happening.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: So we are now in the spring of thirty seven,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: so we are something like ten months in the war.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: There are things that we should discuss before that, such
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: as the Battle of Madrid, but let's go to Gernick.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: So the main advantage that the Nationalists, the Franco side
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: has is they have aviation. This is the first war
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: where aviation and air force plays a role. Now he
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: doesn't got he hasn't got his own airplanes, but the
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Germans and the Italians have good pilots, particularly the Germans,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: and they used the Spanish Civil War as a testing
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: ground for new tactics, and one of the new tactics
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: is terror campaigns against populations. There were terror bombing and
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: bends in Barcelona, in Madrid, in Durango, which was a
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: village closed to not very far from Gernica in terms
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: of the disaster that happened. But the thing with Gernica
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: is that there were journalists nearby, so it became prominent
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: in the news, and Picasso made this famous, this famous drawing.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: So what happened is there were no active troops in Gernica.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: The nationalists claimed that there were troops or troops were passing,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: so to cut along story sort they bombed. They were
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: bombing for hours. The town a small town which was
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: also an iconic town for the Basque area. Imagine if
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: they were bombing I don't know, something very like Asisi
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: in Italy, where San Francisco of US eas it was.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: So it was a very well known place and for
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: hours it experienced an absolutely disaster with the hundreds of deaths.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: It wasn't even perhaps the warst bombing. But because they
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: were journalists near nearby, because Gernica was iconic, and because
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: of course Picasso drew it, it has stayed in our
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: mind as one of the number one war crimes of
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: the Nationalists. But again it wasn't even particularly special. Similar
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: things happened in Durngo and an even bigger extension in
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Barcelona and Madrid. So Gernica April ninety thirty seven is
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: the first time that outsiders get the sense that, okay,
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: something horrible is happening there. It's not that the communists
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: are doing horrible things and some good patriots are taking over.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: This is now becoming a battle field for fascist mo
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Nazism to have a goal. And it was a it
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: was a crucial moment in terms of in terms of
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: the international pr let's say, of the Spanish Civil War. So,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: and also to Clark, Picasso was not there, but because
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: generalists were nearby, we have a very clear idea of
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: the of the town because it was indeed horrible, horrible.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, uh, thank during the Civil War. Obviously, the
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: you know, Mussolini is ruling in Italy, Hitler is ruling
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: in in Germany. The war hasn't started, so we don't
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: have we don't have the World War two. Yeah, but
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: everybody's kind of lining up. This is lining up towards
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: World War two. How does how does Franco during the
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Civil War? What is his relationship with Hitler and Mussolini?
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Do they intervene? Did they participate? You know? So what's
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: what's the is the coalition of the these fascist away
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: aligned figures.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm laughing because the same criminal mistakes that you
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: see the West doing today, you see them doing back
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: then first they trust people who should not be trusted.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: So at the beginning of the war, for various reasons
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: that people can't ask us, England does not want to intervene. France,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: although France is also ruled by a popular front, does
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: not want to intervene. And they say, look, we're gonna
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: make a deal. No one is going to intervene. And
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: they ask Hitler and mussolimi, do you promise you're not
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: going to intervene. We promise we're not going to intervene.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: And to cut to fast forward, Mussolini sends at some
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: point there like forty thousand Italian troops, and Hitler says,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: sends fewer troops, something like four thousand, but he says
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: again important Luftwaffe very good Loo airplanes and Luftwaffe troops.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: So supposedly everyone is neutral, but the one side, the Nationalist,
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: gets significant help from the Fascist and Hitler. Hitler and
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Mussolini soon get very angry with Franco because Franco his
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: approach to war is slow, slow, slow, we go slow.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: So his he's circling Madrid basically almost for three years
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: before he takes Madrid, whereas the fastest expected that they
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: would take Madrid in weeks. And and yet Hitler and Mussolini,
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: by the way, at that time before the Spanish Civil War,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: were not in very good terms. Why because of Austria.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Mussolinses Austria as in the field in the in the
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: interests of Italy. Of course, Hitler once already has answers
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: in his mind. But it is Spain that brings Hitler
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: and Mussolini closer. So the Spanish field war is disastrous
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: in many different ways and in many different aspects. So
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: you have the fascists doing free military games, real practice
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: with real in a real war, and they come up
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: with some what later will understand us blitz creek or
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: what later we're gonna understand us, like collecting all your
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: firepower in one area and penetrating from that area. All
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: these things first, the cooperation between artillery and airplanes, these
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: things Franco cannot even understand them. It is the Germans
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: and the Italians that lead the tactical innovation in the battlefield,
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: whereas the British and the friends, they're watching their cowards.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that they had a duty to support France.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: They did Spain. They didn't, but they should not be
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: stupid enough to sit outside and say, ah, yeah, we're
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: all neutral, whereas the Nazis and the Fassists were doing
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: like war crimes and even worse, they were becoming better
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: for future war, for the future war against the against
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: the England and against the rest of Europe. Interesting, and
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: of course we have Soviet Union there, but that's a
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: separate chapter.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's talk now about you know, so about
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: the relationships of the communists. So, I mean this left
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: wing coalition which is not exactly communist, but what's the
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: relationship to stole In and to the Soviet Union, what's
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: the relationship to communists around the world.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, so, as we said, initially the Communist Party has
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: around thirty five thousand people, so it was a very
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: small party and no more than three percent. Within a
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: year it becomes ten times bigger. What happens in between,
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: Number one, the communist movement, the international Communist movement, with
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: an initiatly from Soviet Union, manages to achieve its biggest
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: prestige victory in the history of communist u of the
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: communist movement, and this is to organize the international brigades.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: These are active These are volunteers from the whole world
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: who fly to Spain to idealistically fight for the Republic.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: You cannot conceive people, what is the legacy of the
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: international brigades in Europe. I grew up and everyone from
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: the right to the left, they would say, there was
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: one time in history where people came together to fight
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: a war which was not for themselves. So it was
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: like the Pinnacley of altruism. And you had many Americans
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: also with the Abraham Lincoln Battalion, from all over the world,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: but they were organized by the Communist International, so the
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: prestice went to the Communists. The other major thing, Soviet
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Union was the only country together with Mexico, but Mexico
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: said it was not significant, which agreed to help Spain.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Now this helped we come with huge terms and conditions.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Number one, they take three quarters of all the gold
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: of Spain, and of course Spain ever sees it back.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: But even worse, they send technicians and experts and some aviators.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: But they are also sending the secret police. They're sending NKVD.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: And remember I told you how the most the best
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: fighters of the Republic were the anarchists and the most
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: radicals were the anarchists and the Trotskis. Within a year,
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: these people are going to be destroyed in torture chambers
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: by the same bulchers that stalin had in Moscow. The
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: leader of PUM was arrested by the Stalinists. He died
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: during torture, and the Stalinists created a story that he
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: abdicated to the to the fascist side, and he's somewhere
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: in Berlin enjoying the money of his So what the
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: Stalinists did to the anarchists and the Trotskiss is one
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: of the most disgusting pages in the history of the
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: disgusting history of comedies.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: And as a tutor during the Civil War, becoming a
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: party in Spain actually grew significantly. I mean, this is
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: what kind of created in a sense a real communist presence.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: In one hundred percent within a year. By mid to
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: late nineteen thirty seven, the whole of the Republic is
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: in the control of communists. Why because first of all,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: because they killed this the rest and they terrorized them.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: But also Soviets controlled the weapons. So if you were
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: a militia facing incoming Moroccan troops, they would tell you, look,
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: do you accept to become part of the new proper
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: popular army, which is basically communist army, or we're not
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: gonna say any weapons have fun when the Moroccans overtake
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: your position. So everyone had to tow the line and
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: become and become communized so to speak. Now to be
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: also very proper. The Communists did not push for a
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: social revolution. That's why one of the reasons they were
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: going after the anarchists and Droskis, they said, we just
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: want to win the war. Of course, it goes without
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: saying that if they had won the war and then
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: they would have all this control in the country, they
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: would use the usual stuff. But every Marxist an anarchists
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: was not the communists was disgusted with them, and they
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: consider them the grave diggers of the social revolution that
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: took place in thirty six and the beginning of thirty seven.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: So there were a lot of Americans and other Europeans
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: founders who joined in with the republican side. I mean
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Hemingway was not a communist, right, I mean, I mean
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: these guys were not communists. Why did they associate with
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: the with the republican side. What was about what was
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: going on in Spain that got people, was so excited
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: outside of Spain to fight on the side of the
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Republicans against Frango.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm laughing with him inway because most people have
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: in mind that he fought. He was doing something which
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: sounds more like revolutionary tourism. But that's okay. He went
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: there as a journal so his job was not to
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: was not to find.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Which you have, Joe, Joe Well you have. You have
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: lots of other uh, you know, prominent people.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: Who George Orwell actually fought. He fought with Pum, with
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: the militias of Pum, of the Trotskists who were not
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: real trogist but anyway, and and he got so disgusted
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: with the Stalinist that he wrote Homage to Catalonia, which
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: is his experience. And encourage everyone to read this book.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: George Orwell is brilliant, even if he writes about the weather.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: When he writes about something of such a historical significance,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: you should expect it's a great book. You should encourage
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: people to read it, so mostly they would see that
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: here you have on the one side democracy and on
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: the other side fascism. Now this is wrong on both
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: of its premises. On the one side you did not
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: have democracy. You had a coalition of some people who
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: believed in democracy, which was the most moderates of the
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Socialist Party, but also people who were who wanted anything
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: from libertarian communism to stalionism. And on the other side
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: you had many who were author Italian conservatives but were
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: not fascists. But that was the image, that was the
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: image out there. But again the most exciting, the most
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: alluring thing was altruism. These people go there and fight
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: the fight which is not theirs. They fight for something
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: bigger than themselves, and this is irresistible. This is something
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: which and they do it also for this was the
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: Red decade, you know, in the United States and so on,
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: so it was quite the fashionable thing to do. Of course,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: there were not that many, but a respectable amount of
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: people also fought with the nationalists. And it's very easy,
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: very interesting. If you read the equivalent of or Wealsh
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: Homage to Catalonia, which is a book called by a
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: British guy called Mind Were of Trouble. If you only
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: read this book, you will think that this was a
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: war between god respecting people who sometimes had to unfortunately
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: kill some people and some monsters who did demonic things,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: and thank God for Franko who saved the war from
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: these demonic beasts. So and I think that both sides
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: were sincere that this is exactly how they perceived they
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: perceived that war.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Hi, So let's uh, let's kind of I'd like to
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: get to kind of Franko's war. So what else do
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: we need to talk about in with regard to the
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Civil War? Can you give us a quick explanation of
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: why he wins?
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, because on the one side you have proper soldiers,
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: proper officers, battle tested officers getting significant proper help from
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: military serious powers. And on the other side you have
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: militias in fighting and they don't. And Franco always has
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: the momentum, always all he has the white, He's the
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: white in the chessboard. He makes the first movement, he
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: keeps the momentum. When he manages to take the North,
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: it becomes clear that now the republic is in very
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: bad shape. And slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, he keeps winning.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: The Republicans at some point try a counter attack that
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: it's so within three years and through unspeakable crimes, Franco
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: gets to Madrid hundreds of thousands of people escape towards France.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Those who don't escape, their faith is very, very bad,
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: so very quickly. This war costs more than half a
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: million lives, and a significant amount of these are people
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: who don't die in the battlefield. They die as a
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: result of the battles over. Now we're going to execute
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: you even after the war. Franko kills some people claim
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: more than one hundred thousand people after the war, So
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: no reason that anyway, And this is how his dictators it.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: His one party state starts from ninety thirty nine till
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: his death in ninety seventy seventy five. So we can
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: now leave behind the civil war and see the rule
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: of France. While the rest of Europe is now entering
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: World War two, Spain enters its own period of misery.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: So why is it Spain doesn't join in Germany in
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: in World War two. I mean, by the time World
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: War two starts was over, Francos in control. Why isn't
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: he invading France from the south or the west to
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: join the Nazis.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's not for lack of wanting. So it crosses
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: his mind and he actually has a meeting with Hitler
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: in somewhere in the south of France on the twenty
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: third of October ninety forty. I remember the date, not
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: because I have any crazy memory. It's a few days
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: before Mussolinea attacks Greece, and Hitler's mind is preoccupied. What
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: is this city you're gonna do? He's gonna attack Greece
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: and he's gonna fail, as exactly happened when Musolinear attacked Greece. Anyway,
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: between that, he meets Franco. Franco knows that he's leading
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: a calendar which is destroyed, a caundary that is in ruins,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: and he will only enter the war if he gets
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: a lot of loot, a lot advance, so he tells Hitler, look,
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: of course I respect you, of course we're with you.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: All I'm asking is French, Algeria, the whole of Morocco.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: Give me also Gibraltar when you will take it from
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: the bridge. And while we're at it, you need to
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: give us food for the foreseeable future and weapons for
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: the foreseeable future. Hitler's impression from the meeting. When he leaves,
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: he tells his tour Raus, I'd rather go and have
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: my teeth pulled rather than meet Franco again. So Franco's
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: a cole Lage will say this was a brilliant move
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: because Franco really did not want to enter the war,
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: but he didn't want to, you know, appear weak to Hitler. Anyway,
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: Hitler is not going to give Northern Africa to Franco
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: because then Vsy France and General Peten will be disappointed.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: So the only contribution of Spain in the war is
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: when he sends the Blue Division to Stalingrad. So Frank
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: or Not is already he plays it clever. He says,
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure if Hitler's gonna win. Therefore, he tells
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: the Allies, I'm not participating in the war. I'm just
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: you know, it's just I want to kill communists, so
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: it has nothing to do with you. I just want
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: to keep comunists. And also he says, it's Hitler. See,
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: I'm helping you. So whoever wins, he says, I'm gonna
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: be safe if the if the Allies win, I didn't interven,
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: okay with Starlin, you know we all had him. If
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Hitler wins, he says, hey, I was always by your side,
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: so now give me stuff. So this is this is
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: how he played it out. After right before the two
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: it becomes clear Nazis are not gonna win, so he
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: tries to distance himself from from fascism.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: It's so Spain doesn't entswer World War Two. It has
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: a war, but there's a sense in which you know,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: it now has five years of relative piece. It's not
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: being bombed into oblivion by either the Nazis or the
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: or the Allies. So by the time nineteen forty five comes,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: it should be relative to the rest of Europe, it
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: should be a thriving, rich you know the place to
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: you know, successful place. And we know that you know,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: fascist run the economy so well, or Catholic authoritarians run
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: the So what is the reality because that obviously doesn't
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: happen in Spain. Somehow manages to stay poor in spite
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: of not having not even to suffer through World War two.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, first of all, to be fair, the civil war
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: that they went through was horrendous. Some way five years.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: I had start, right, they can start rebuilding in thirty
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: nine in France and Germany. Are we building in forty five?
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: True? So how is the rebuilding going? It's going that
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Spain has actually two famines. You have scence that we've
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: only seen in the history of Soviet Union. So farmers
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: going looking for I don't know how you call it
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: when you try to eat for how when they try
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: to eat grass and things like that. And this is
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: because Franco thinks he's an expert in the economy. He
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: has this stupid idea that everything that Spain needs we
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: already have it, and everything alien is alienating. And he
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: comes up with a plan of autarchy. How after, it's
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: a Greek word of tarkia, autarchy, so we don't need
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: anything from outside.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: And this goes this is this is very I mean,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: this is an important concept because this is the American
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: rye today. This is very much what they believe in, right.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: This is the whole idea of how and everything else
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: we need to build everything in America. You know, we
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: need to produce our own stuff. We shouldn't be quote
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: dependent on anybody else. Are the key or however you
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Greeks pronounce it is very, very popular in an American
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: way today. And it's what part of what makes Venco
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: I think appealing is he he had this idea way
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: before the American weight came up. With it.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it's a it's an absolute fiasco. It's
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: an absolute disaster.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: Always is. Sorry I said, it's always is.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: It always is, and again it could be a hundred
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: percent predictable. But the thing is who is running Spain.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: First of all, there's no there's nothing like free economy.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: By the way, we can discuss later if if Spain
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: is a fastiest state, and I think it's something even worse,
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: and I can explain why I say even worse. So
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: when we say Spain is not fastiest, this is not
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: too white. Was Spain? I think it was something actually
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: even worse. So there's crazy inflation. There's inflation because there's nothing.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: There's no foreign currency because Sir Franco realizes that exporting
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: orange this is only going to get you that far.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: So there's inflation. There's no proper industrial activity, there's no initiative.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: The economy is run by his cronies. Franko does not
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: trust people, so his inner secle are the same people
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: who one of them is his brother in law, his
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: secretary is his brother, or when his daughter gets married
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: his son in law. It reminds me of a current
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: family which is leading a country where everyone around the
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: great leader is making deals of millions and billions. But
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: who am I to know? Okay, So this is how francis,
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: this is how Spain is going. And at some point
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: in the fifties this becomes so bad that something has
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: to change. But just when we say bad, let's put
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: it into comparison to other countries or to Spain itself
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: in ninety fifty five. Now we are sixteen years after
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: the end of the Civil War. So think of Europe
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: in ninety sixty one. Let's say the equivalent in ninety
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: fifty five. Spain has a lower Spain is poorer than
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: Spain was before the beginning of the Civil War. Yep,
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: an even crazier statistic in ninety fifty five. It's difficult
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: to know exact GDPs because you have to project on
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: the past. But Spain's GDP is either the same or
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: a bit lower than Greece. Greece experience and here it's important.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: It's gdpeople capita, so it's it's a capital world. So
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: this is this is independent of immigration, right, and growth
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: in population gen people capita is about the same a
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: little lower than Greece.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: In nineteen Greece had gone through war nats occupation in
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: the Civil War, exactly ten years after the Spanish Civil War.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: The Greek Civil War its main part is thirty forty
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: six to forty nine, and within six years Greece is
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: almost the same, if not better off, depending on which
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: that you see, than Spain. So this is the economic
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: miracle of Frago. You're gonna hear a lot of the
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: term economic miracle. We're going to see what the miracle was.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we see it in a minute. So in nineteen fifty,
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: just to give us some most stats, forty eight percent
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: the genpeople capital in Spain was forty eight percent that
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: of Western Europe, of the European average, Western European average.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: Remember nineteen fifty, this is five years. I don't know
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: if you've ever seen pictures of bombed out Germany or
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: the Fans. It just gone through this blistering war. I
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: mean whole towns have been destroyed. This is five years
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: after the end of the war. And Europe is double
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: double the gdpeople capital, the income. It's sixty two percent
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: of Italy. Italy not a particularly rich country, this is
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: sixty two percent of that so forty.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: And also a Catholic country. With a lot of tradition
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: of Catholicism and a country where the second biggest political
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: force is the communist part of Italy. So Italy has
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: so many things taked against it because they're gonna say, oh,
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: you know the communists. Now, Spain without communists is force
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: than in Italy.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and in nineteen thirty five, before the Civil War,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: Spain was eighty one percent of Italy, so it still
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: wasn't Italy, but it was eighty one drove twenty percentage
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: points relative to Italy. When Italy again and went through
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: the war where it was crushed, I mean it was completely,
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: I mean the ally completely destroyed. Parts of itly, huge
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: parts of itly, all its industry was destroyed. As you
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: said the rise of communist parties in Italy. Italy had
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: a dominant communist party and yet it still managed to
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: get richer than significantly richer than Spain by nineteen fifty.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: So when Franco was in charge of the economy, it
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: was an unmitigated disaster.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: You can only compare him to socialist seaholls like Albania.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: I mentioned Albania because they also had the idea of
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: all tarchy es. Anyway, what happens in the early fifties.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: The Cold War begins, the war in Korea, so they
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: eat the odds. In the United States, they say, hey,
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: there's a guy in Spain who also hates Communists, maybe
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: we should do business with him. By that point, the
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: many counties didn't even have embassies because, oh, by the way,
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Franco's savagery was such that made him an international paraia.
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: Even fascists like Fari Nazi, who was the brain, let's say,
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: of fastest in Italy, he's appalled by what he is
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: in Franco Spain, even Himler for the name for the
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: love of God, Himmler of the ESSs goes to Spain
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: in a VIP trip and his report is, what are
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: these guys doing there? This savagery is I mean, he
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: hasn't got a moral problem, but the savagery is destroying
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: the country anyway. And the Western ends keeps Spain at
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: arm's length. But this starts changing in the fifties and
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: the West opens up towards Spain. And what happens in
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: the late fifties is that I am f The internationally
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: Monetary Fund, of course, by the NUDS of the United
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: States has a rescue package for Spain like he does
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: in any other the economic basket case. It bails out
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: Spain and requires some reforms. So Franco again is such
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: an idiot. He does not understand, for example, how it
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: can be that if you devalue your currency it can
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: be a good thing. He thinks that devalue your currency
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: it means you're a traitor, because Spanish who is going
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: to have less fewer paesettas the genius Cadio. But anyway,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: as part of the reforms, many technocrats come to run
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: the economy many people, and most of them of the
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: top technocrats related to a Catholic group called Opus Day.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: You might remind people might remember Opus Day from Dan
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: Brown's Da Vincy Code and Bishop are in Arosa. They're
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: the bad guys there, but they're ultra Catholics, but they're
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: slightly more open minded. So even Opus Day is more
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: open minded than Franco Frank and they open up a
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: bait the economy. The other thing that happens many iss
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: are already abroad and even more live and become gastar
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: biders in Germany like many other poor countries of the South.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: So that's the level of Spain. It has to send
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: gastar biders to Germany and these people send back hard currency.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: So this is how Spain slowly and because its starting
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: level is very low, it can manage to have a
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: lip so relevant to where it was. It has a
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: huge a huge growth. But this has to do with
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: the fact of how low it was and the other
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: The last thing that happens that explains the quote miracle
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: is tourism. Spain opens up the Spaniards. The Conservatives freak
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: out because women in bikinneys show up. They have all
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: these moral panics that these women are sex hungry and
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: they're going they're going to destroy the morals of proper
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: Spanish men. And this is how going towards the nineteen seventies.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: The ninety sixties is a decade of economic progress. Again
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: though it is an economy which is run predominantly by
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: the state, not anymore by Franko and his clique so much.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: They are the beneficiaries of under the table deals. But
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: there is a breathing space, and this is how you
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: have the development of Spain in the nineteen sixties.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so, yeah, I mean, it's it's imf
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: it's the technocrat. There's definitely a liberalization, there's a stabilization
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: of the currency. There's a you know, reduction of the
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: deficits and most sanity brought to the local currency. Yeah,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: as you said, it opens up the fund capital, It
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: opens up the tourism which brings in fund capital, remittances
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: bringing in and it starts training, so it gives up
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: on not how see kind of idea. It actually opens
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: up its borders and starts trading, particularly with Western Europe.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: And and it grows really fast. Between fifty nine and
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: seventy five real GDP per capital grows at five point
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: six percent annually, which is really fast. Now just to
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: understand how bad things were to begin with. By the end,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: it's still only seventy four percent of Italy, sixty one
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: percent of France, sixty six percent of Germany, sixty seven
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: percent of Britain and just barely above Greece.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: And this is after the miracle, yep. Because I have
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: people I have people on tweet there the Spanish miracle,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: the Spanish.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: Miracle, and if you look at growth rates throughout Europe
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: during the spare, fifty nine to seventy five are some
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: of the fastest growth rate periods in European history. All
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: these economies are going I mean, France is going through
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: the roof advances. It is to Charles the goal. I
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: guess this is the Gold period, and French economy is
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: going really really fast. It's at least going fast. See. Yes,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: Spain is going a little faster than all of them,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: a little bit, so it catches up a little bit,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: but it's not going fast enough to catch up with
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: these other countries. And it only grows when it becomes
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: more like them and less like Franco envisioned it less
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: controlled by Franco and more controlled by technocrats. So let's
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: call it people without a real ideological agenda when it
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: comes to economics.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: And the last smoking gown to destroy this myth that
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: the economic miracle of Franco. Franco, we're going to see
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: dies in seventy five. In seventy seven, there's a different government.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: In the early eighties. The socialists come to power. Socialists
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: of the early eighties who are almost real socialists, like
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: very stages in the economy. Oh, what is the biggest
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: thing the socialists do when they come to power. They
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: open and liberalize the economy. The economy in Spain even
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: in ninety eighty two was such a statist mess that
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: the socialist, for God's sake, they liberalize, the liberalized labor.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: It was impossible to fire, to fire a worker. They changed,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: they opened up the economy. The socialists, so the socialists
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: of the early eighties are more market oriented than the
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: reformist period of Franco, not to speak of the other
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: key period of Arango. This is who the caw Digo was,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: who today people tell me the miracle and he destroyed
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: communistments one and so forth.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the reality is that the convergence with Europe,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: or the real economic miracle, if you will, happens in
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty sixty two thousand. That's when you really see
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Spain are performing at the European countries and starting to
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: catch up. I mean, it really doesn't care up until
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: more recently, but it's it does pretty well under socialist
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: governments in eighty six to two thousand. There's a period
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: of adjustment from when he dies and the socialist you know,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: liberalize and there's some readjustment that has to happen there.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: But then things just take off and trade liberalized large
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: and flows of fun capital, and then of course, of
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: course the great what really happens in eighty six? What's
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: the thing that happens in eighty six? God forbid? Spain
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: joins the evil monster, the European Union, and of course,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: once it joins the European Union.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: The European Community back then.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, but it basically free flow of goods, free flow
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: of capital, free flow of people, and that actually energizes
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: the Spanish economy. It brings many more tourists down to
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: Spain and it allows you know, free flow of goods,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: open voters of goods and capro enhance economic growth.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: And the last thing that we need to mention here
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: on about the last period, the Spanish Milecle period, is
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: that it coincides with Franco mostly being a figure who
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: hasn't got much to do with the everyday level. Just
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: give you one example. I've reading one of his biograph.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: It turns out that he had seventeen TVs at his house,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: and how impressive he watched every single game of the
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: World Cup of ninety seventy four. I thought, I'm the
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: craziest World Cup watch There has been no World Cup
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: even when I was a student that I managed to
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: was every single game. Franco apparently had so much time
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: that he had time to watch every single game of
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: the ninety seventy four for a West German World Cup.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: So yeah, he wasn't very hands on in the last
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: years of his life. He also had to of course
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: health problems. He was old, so he had less. The
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: less he had to do with running Spain, the better Spain.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: Did, better Spain did. So I also want to talk
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: about how he treated his opponents. What was life like
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: in Spain and the spirit because economics is economics, but
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: free speech. What was going on with his political opponents?
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: You know, you know? Did they continue the killing, the torture,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: the jailing of people who disagreed with him?
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so there was a first amnesty something like ten
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: years after the end of the civil war. Many people, though,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: were still persecuted. There was still some resistance in the mountains.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: The torture never stopped. So Spain systematically committee torture till
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: the end of the ZIM till the seventies. They also
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: had a particularly horrible way of execution, where it was
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: called garrotinge. I don't want to mess up with people's
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: appetite at this time they can go. And second on, it's.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: The way people were tortured in the Middle Ages and
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: all the way really until the Enlightenment. There said a
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: pre Enlightenment way of punishing and torturing people.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, and this was how they would execute their political opponents.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: Towards the last years they faced Catholics.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: By the way, I just want to emphasize that that,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: you know, the people doing the gatherting were good Catholics.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: So now, to be fair with many Catholics were Actually
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: that's the other thing we have to say. At some
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: point even the majority of let's say good Catholics were
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: disgusted with Franco and they had enough of him. So
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: many people who complained about the tortures were Catholics. And
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: what does Franco do. Then he starts arresting priests. He
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: has zero inhibition to go against even the Catholics, and
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: he's claiming that now there's a Freemasonry conspiracy within the
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: Catholic churchs because again everything is the Freemasons. I don't
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: know what he had with with the free with the Freemasons,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: but yeah, even the Catholic Church he would turn, he
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: would turn against them and towards the last years of
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: his rule. There's also the terrorism from Basque independent activists
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: terrorists actually Etta, which was active till some years ago.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: So this gave rise to more persecutions towrdsure, guarreting and
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: and all that stuff. So this never changed, the regime
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: never became actually better. There was a censorship, official censorship.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: Not every newspaper had to go through a censorship. Sensorship
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: progress and these things would sometimes slightly become quote liberalized.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: So the best you could hope is maybe you can
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: publish the newspaper and if there's a problem, then they're
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: gonna knock on your door. But this would be a
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: back and forth. He would give liberalize a bit here
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: and take away take away there. So he was an
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: embarrassment for the West, and the same a stain on
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: the West, from the time where his Moroccan troops were
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: raping women encouraged by their officers Spanish officers till the
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: very end. He was an embarrassment and he was he
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: was a stain.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: So one other thing I want to cover before we
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: get to is appeal to the American way. You know,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: there's all this stuff about immigration. You know, all these
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: people want to come into Spain and Franco would have
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: kept him out. Franco would have been tough on them
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: and they'd be good. So I looked up. I looked up,
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: you know, what was immigration into Spain like under Franco,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: And of course there was none. And it was none,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: not because Franco was tough, not because he was scary
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: and would use the military against them. There was none
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: because nobody wanted to live in Fanco Spain.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: Indian what there were no adults, they were well, what
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: did you do exactly?
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: There was no welfare state, there were no jobs, and
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: or the welfare state was I'm sure they immigrants wouldn't
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: have received any. But then two million Spanish workers left Spain.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: So the population of Spain between nineteen fifteen nineteen seventy
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: shrunk by I mean two million workers left. People wanted
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: out and they left Spain to go work in place
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: like Germany, Fans Switzerland. This was before the Europe before
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: it was easy to coross borders. This was hard to
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: cross borders and almost nobody, nobody came into Spain even
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: during the rapid economic development of the nineteen sixties. You know,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: they were one of the post countries or you know,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: close to the post country in western Europe. Why would
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: anybody want to want to go there? You know. It's
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: say that just before Franco's death in nineteen seventy five,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: the country began seeing small initial arrivals from guess Way, Morocco.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: So the Moroccan immigration trend of Moroccans immigrating into Spain
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: actually started on the Franco.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: And under Frank also he lost parts of Morocco, and
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: he kept the one town that you see these days
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: in the news and another not enclave port how to
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: put it, a small piece of land nearby, nearby, over
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: there anyway, So yes, this was this was, this was Franco.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: Supporting Franco is as disgusting. So there are two types
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: of people who can support Franco. Either you are a
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: moral degenerate, in which case you don't care about the
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: rapes that tartured all these things, or about the fact
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: that Spain, without any reason because there was no common
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: thread after thirty nine, remained the dictatorship for thirty something years,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: and or you're historically literate, so you don't know any
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: of these things. These are the only two categories of
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: people who can appreciate Franco. Either you don't care about
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: what he did or you don't know what he did.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: But because he beat the left, he was an enemy
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: of the left. You know, he was a successful county revolutionary.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: First of all, there would be no Spanish Revolution without
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: Franco's coup. Again, all the things that you've seen, the
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: red and black flags in Barcelona. You know, when the
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: Popular Front won, they made the case that all the
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: ministers were the most mainstream and least radical they could find. Now,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: I'm even open to the idea that the Popular Front
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: did horrible things and it was legitrimate for the army
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: to intervene. I can discuss this, and the army intervening
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: does not mean doing the monstrosities that Franco's army did
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: during the war, and even more after the war, there
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: was zero There was no country with such a low
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: com mistreat as Spain after ninety thirty nine, and yet
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: Franco throughout his when there was no commins thread ruled
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: in the same mindset, in the same thugist, barbarian savage way,
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: which is more proper for the Third War. Socialist resim
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: or a Baptist resim. Spain looked more than a Baptist
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: resim rather than everything resembling the West.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: But again ncose, you're not getting it right. I mean
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: Franco supported Catholic and religious education. He was for traditional
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: marriage and sexual morality. He believed in the patriarchy right,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: a patriot stone unity against the regional separatists.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: So does Kadaffi in obedience ka Daffy Saddam Saddam Hussein
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: believed these things. So and when it comes to he
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: killed communists, there was a guy in Germany also who
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: killed communists. So I have people who played there in
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: our movement and they are I think he killed comedists. Okay,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: google who was the Count Chancelon in Germany after nineteen
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: thirty three. You'll find out he also killed communists. Maybe
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: he will be of interest to you. Go check him out.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing. I think that they want to
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: love Hitler, but they can't. He has a bad rap
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: although Chucker Cousen is trying to change that. He has
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: a bad rapp. So who's like what seems like a
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: soft Hitler? Right, No, no Holocaust, no big war against
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: the West and the ally of the United States, and
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: a good Christian importantly, a good Christian. So a hitler
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: who is a Christian and a love of family and
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: who doesn't go to war against the West and doesn't
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: have a holocaust on his hands. That's Franco.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, well he made his country a training grounds
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: for calendars that did go.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: To war with the West battle and he destroyed his
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: own country, I mean, and he impoverished it. And he
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: he added no value, zero value. There's no there's nothing good,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: nothing good happened on the Franco's regime except yes, he
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: kills some Communists, but they want that. Many communists before
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: Franco launched the said, oh, Franco indeed created more Communists
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: in Spain than anybody else.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: If it was not for Franco today, none would have
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: heard the terms Senator Fai only like historians of the movement,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: no one would have heard the terms international brigades. And
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: again this gave so much credibility to communism. Remember people
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: remember the movie Oppenheimer. Remember in the late thirds, Oppenheimer
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: goes to that party. What is his gateway to the
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: communist movement. He supports Spain, which means I support the
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: International Brigade, which means I support the Communist Party, which
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: means I support the Soviet Union. So Franco was the
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: best pr for the Comintern and for Stalin during a
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: period where Stalin was doing the worst crimes. This was
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: a period of parts, and instead of discussing the parts is,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: we were discussing how brilliant the Soviet Union it helps
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: democratic space Spain against these monsters who destroyed Gernica and
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: the Moroccan troops are raping women. This is this is
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: what was the discussion.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean at some point we should probably
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: do a showankl Schmidt, who's got this idea of fend
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: an enemy enemy.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's all. He hasn't got anything else, that's.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well it'll be a short shot.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: Actually, let me give you a final, very hot take
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: in terms of how much disgust have for Franco. If
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: one figure from the Nationalist should win, I think everyone,
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: including normal Spanish people, would be better off under the
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: under Jose Antonio of the Phalank than after Franco. I
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: think Franco was worse even than the local fascist, and
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: he was definitely worse than Mussolini in terms of internal
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: what happened. If you ask me, you're the same person,
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: You're a classical liberal. Do you live in Italy, Mussolinia
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: in Franco Spain Italy Mussolini every day, every day of
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: the week. In Spain, I would be in clear danger
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: because in Spain he would first of all, he would
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: have this idea every class anything else to do with
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: the Enlightenment is a Masonic, free Masonic stuff. So at
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: some point Franco says, mine is a revolt again the
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: nineteenth century, which means against classical liberalism, against the Enlightenment,
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: against individualism. This is the guy who the new right
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: wants to emulate.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm waiting for them to also,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: uh bring up Mussolini and embrace him as well. So
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: it's just a matter of time.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: I think, Well, I don't think that he's he's too
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: line's two much of it. I mean, they don't have
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: a problem with social I was I was about to
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: say a little bit is too much of a socialist
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: for their takes, But why would he stop them?
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: They absolutely do not have any problem with socialism. They
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: are a bunch of socialists. I mean they really are
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: the status just like Franco was, just like Moussolini was,
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: just like Hitler was the way is status and it
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: is socialist in that sense, all right. So you know,
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: we're seeing a lot of people on the way talk
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: about Franco thet few days because of the the migrants
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: thing in this town in Morocco. But even before that,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: there was a there's a growing uh, there's a growing
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: admiration for him. And I really do think they're looking
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: for a political hero who is not untouchable, right, certain
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: political heroes untouchable. They can't openly admire Hitler, so they
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: find somebody who's gonna Because people are ignorant, they don't
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: know the history, they don't know the brutality that you know,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: Fanco is a much more sympathetic character for the right
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: to admire and raise up as a hero. And we're
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: seeing that. But we should judge the right in America
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: based on who it chooses as heroes.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: And let's speak with names. Let's speak with names. Who
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: does this well? For example, Zach Pozobia some years ago
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: started a trend called Franco Friday. Every Friday he would
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: post pro Franco stad Last Friday he posted something like
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: sixteen pro Franco things in a day. Now you would say,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: who is that guy. This is a guy, first of all,
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: who is a VIP in the Trump family. He's a
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: guy who wrote a book called The Humans Were In
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: the book he presents Franko as a savior. Do you
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: know who wrote a blurb for the book? Vice President
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: of the United States J Evans And of course the
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: introduction is written by Steve Bannon. But these days, you
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: know who even cares about Bandon anymore? The other day and.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: Just to finish him, and he's a regular speaker at
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: Turning Point USA, you know, so his Turning Point USA
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: arguably straddles kind of conventional right of right wing Republicans
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: with kind of mega and the crazy way. And he's
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: a regular speaker that he is is definitely and he's
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: got a huge following on Twitter, huge following on YouTube.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: So this is this is a big name in underway today.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: Michael Knowles. What's the name of the other guy from
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: by the way, This guy I think is still in
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: Daily Wire he's or maybe I'm wrong, but yes, he's
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: also did the Franco Friday thing. The other guy said
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: maybe we should bring back Fastiest in terms that oh
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: you know, the left is calling us fast as therefore
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: we should we could actually become fastest a few days ago.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: So we're not talking here about some friends bloggers. We're
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: talking about people who are in the center of maga.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: And let's be clear, this is equally disgusting with the
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: Hassan Pikers of this world, lionizing mouth. It's equally disgusting
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: and they should know. And this shows who they are.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: When people show you who they are, you should believe them.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: Yep. All right, great, So, uh we're gonna we're gonna
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: call that and and see, let me see if there
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: I've got a messy question, and I've got another messy question,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: and all right, so we're gonna tend you questions. Remind
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: you all that these shows uh have to be paid for. Uh.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: Nicos does a huge amount of work in preparation for
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: all these shows. Uh, and it shows, right, I mean,
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: he knows a huge amount and you don't. You don't
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: just know that by by accident, he actually he actually
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: puts in a huge amount of work. So we gotta
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: pay him. So I consider your super chat here as
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: payment for Nicos, and uh, you know, be generous so
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: that we keep the show going. The show again, the
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: the money for the show is basically the chats. Those
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: of you who are listening to this on Apple, you know,
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: on Apple or whatever some podcast, or you're watching this
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: after the fact on YouTube, you still should consider supporting this.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: And you know many of you support me on Patreon,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: where you should check out Nicos on Patreon. You don't
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: go support him there.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: We do that also deef dives, we do that. AMAS
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: in the last day you may had thirty four questions.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: So there's a huge value from Nicos's Patreon and it's
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: I think it's only seven bucks a month. You can
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: do more, but but the starting level of seven bucks
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: a month, all of you can afford seven bucks a month.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: I can pretty much guarantee it that are all my
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: listeners or ninety nine percent of my listeners can afford
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: seven bucks a month. So please consider doing that to
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: support nicos work generally, but in particular Nicos work for
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: this show.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: And weather so Oh, which other soul people gives you
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: not just historical knowledge, but also playlist with soundtracks again
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: gold I'm also gonna put it in the comments of YouTube,
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: the tap top ten songs of the Spanish Civil War.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: It was the first war where propaganda played such a role,
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: and there are the music. I mean, forget the context.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: The music is actually very interesting and very uplifting.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, I mean they know how to Did you
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: notice you in the World Cup? I noticed this that
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: when a European country had their national anthem played, then
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: all the players were like, you know, mumbling away. And
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: then when the South American teams had the national anthem,
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: they you know, yelled out. All every single player is
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: like really into the Colombians really into it, Argentinians really
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: into it. And the music is uplifting. It's like nineteenth
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: century Romantic. It's very very and the Europeans are like
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: who cares about this? And all the South Americans are
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: super patriotic. I didn't notice that until this World Cup.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: The only European national anthem which is actually uplifting Spain, which,
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: by the way, we should have started with this Spanish
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: political history is so crazy that after Franco they couldn't
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: agree on the lyrics of the national anthem. So what
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: do they do?
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: They just have the music and they see I noticed
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: that in the final of the World Cup they don't sing.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: The players won't sing. There was nothing being sung, and.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: All they can't agree on. They can't agree on lyrics.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: And Italy. Spain and Italy are the only national anthems
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: that I can compare to the Latin Americans. Of course,
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: the best is Argentina's, no question about it.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Columbia is pretty good. Columbia's was pretty good. And
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: they belt it out. They really every single player is
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: singing along. It was. It was interesting to watch, all right. Anyway,
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: So super chats guys. That is the way those of
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: you who are on Live, those of you watching on Twitter,
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: jump over to YouTube and come and contribute something. You
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: can do a you can do a sticker, which is
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: just value for value. It's just you putting up some
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: dollars in compensation for the work that we're putting in.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: As Nico said, well, so you didn't get the history.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: You get music, but you're a going to get the
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: all passion and the all perspective on this. You might
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: you might be able to find history channels out there
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: to give you like a history straight out, but here
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: you are to get the mall perspective that I think
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: is unique to this particular show. So, and I think
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: it's really really important. All right, Let's see where do
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: we want to start, I'm looking for questions that relate
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: to yeah, I mean in Nyk says, what do you
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: think of Owl's memoirs of fighting in the war and
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: its influence, if any, on how the war was viewed
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: by the world.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: First of all, his memoir is a homage to Catalonia.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: His memoir is very interesting and the only people who
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: don't like it are okay, obviously the fascist but interesting
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: also the Stalinist hated. Some years ago a Greek newspaper
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: had the film of by ken Load's London Freedom, which
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: is a liberal interpretation of or Well's homage to Catalonia
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: and the Communist Party. Because the newspaper gave it out
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: in the day of the election, they said this is
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: an international conspiracy against communists because Orwell was a well
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: known anti communist. So the Stalinist absolutely hate him, which
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: tells you that what is in the book is must
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: be very good. So, and it's a book that you
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: start reading it and from page one you are in
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: the epicenter of the action, so it reads very quickly,
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: and it's a very nice it's a very nice book.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: So what do you think about how it shaped like
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: perspective of the war around the world.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but of course it added to the idea that,
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: of course yes for or Well, there's only one side
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: in the war, which is good, and there's no question
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: which side this is. And actually he calls everyone on
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: the other side the fascist. So Yes Orwell did influence
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: the international view on Spain, although it was already very
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: loopsite towards the Republic, particularly after Germica Orwell releases this.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: Actually I think it released it when it was already
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: too late. So at some point the international brigades left
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: and at some point the international public opinion didn't play
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: any big role. So it didn't have an impact during
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: the war. It had an impact in postapiority later.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: Just just MP Pokey says, did Britain and Fans make
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: a mistake by remaining neutral? Nazis were also using this
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: war as testing ground for their weapons. Did non intervention
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: ultimately make World War two more likely? After they saw
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: the potential?
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: And there is a big, full school of thought that
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: claims that there would be no World War two if
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: the Spanish before. I don't believe that. There's no reason
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: to believe that. Now the thing is in England, the
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: leadership was not was the guy before Chamberlain, but he
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: was also I don't remember his name, I have it
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: somewhere here. His his Stanley Baldwin. They had business interest
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: in Spain, they had bigger fish to fry. Was already
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: clear that there would be tension later with Slovakia, all
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: that stuff, and again, people at that point we don't
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: have the in retrospect view of what in a Nazi
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: Germany would do, but they should not pretend. At least
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: they should openly say, hey, France, sorry, Italy and Germany
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: are helping Franco. Therefore at least we should allow the
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: sale of weapons, or we should we should help. You know,
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: there were there were issues even in letting refugees in France,
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: democratic refugee with they fell on the hands of the Francoist,
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: horrible things would would happen. But also remember France at
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: that point had a very strong quasi fascist movement and
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: they played a big role in stopping the country from
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: from entering the world. So I don't think this had
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: any effect. Remember the key for Second World War Isovakia
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: and then Poland. Both of these things had very little
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: to do with Spain. The fact that the Luftwaffe got
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: some good training, yes, but I don't think it would
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: have stubbed Hitler from his plans one way or the other.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think the British and French were traded
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: by joining joining the against Franco. They they would be
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: perceived as supporting the Soviets as perceived and supporting the socialists.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: And the Republicans didn't do it easier for them, right
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: when not the first days the first thing you say
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: is okay, everything is nationalized. Now there's a common evolution.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: It's not easy for he England, which at that point
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: has a conservative government to help you.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Imagine if the Republicans that being more centrist in
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: a sense centrist there's a hogward but but you know,
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: less communists, more more mild socialists, then you might have
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: seen a different outcome and different support from from around
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: the world. But yeah, yeah, I think the main thing
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: is they had Okay, let's see, let's go through these questions.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: Not that that's a low mask, all right, So uh
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: tal uh says h tal more Uh it says Crowder.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: This is Stephen Crowder, right, pretty mainstream. A guy just
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: posted quote the case for fascism with Franco on the thumbnail.
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: I haven't watched it. I haven't watched yet, but even
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: mainstream conservatives seem increasingly radicalized.
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Crowder, probably if you till yesterday, he thought Franco
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: was the center of the Spanish national team in the
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: last World Cup. But somewhere probably had Here's a guy
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: who was killing comics and he was a Catholic. Therefore,
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: Oh and also it pieces off the lips. You will
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: loan the lips if you put that guy the thumbnail.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: So this is probably how these people operate.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: I think that's right. Uh, let's see uh the term.
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: By the way, here, here's here's a litmus test. When
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: you hear them talk about the Commis were raping nuns,
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: you know, you're talking about someone who doesn't know anything
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: from a history. Even the Francos themselves later really revealed
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: that this was not true. They killed nuns, they didn't rape.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, this doesn't make it better, but it shows
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: you that these people don't care about the facts. They
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: care about the story.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: Yep. So this is a question, he asks, what's the
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: starter of Novo led by Salazau? Really far less worse?
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: I hate these double negatives. Guys, you gotta you gotta
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: get rid of these far less far not just any
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: less worse, far less worse. This has to be there's
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: a better way to say that than Fanco's regime, has
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: Highek claimed.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: So Salazar didn't have to face the civil war. Salazar
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: didn't have all these people who were openly a target
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: for him. So yes, the rezim in Portugal was less
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: brutal than the zim in Spain. I'm no expert in Salazar.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: And again it's a bit apples with Orange is because
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: Franco had more space to exhibit his savager Salazar Salas
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: are those support Oh and last thing, I forgot to say,
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: the only two countries in the first fifteen years or
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: so that had any relationship with Franco was Portugal of Salazar,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: and the other was the country which could not decide
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: whether they're fascist or socialists. I'm talking about pron Argentina.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: So these were the only international allies of Franco. This
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: tells you all you need to know about the nature
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: of his of his resip.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Salas I was pretty buau and economically Portugo
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: stayed relatively poor throughout, So there's track and economically basically
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: tracked Francos, I don't.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: Think I would. You don't have that, You don't have
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: the mass graves that team today they fight in Spain.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: That's uh, let's see, all right, Uh, let's go to
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: general questions or one more. Leon came in with, how
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: is the Spanish of al war taught in Europe? What
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: parts glossed over or misrepresented?
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: The Spanish Civil War is thought as the battle between
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: democracy and fascism. I knew a guy who was not
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: even that political, who once told me, and I still remember,
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: he said, if I would fight one war in my life,
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: so he was a pacifist. He said he would never
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: fight a war, but the one war he would fight
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: was the Spanish Civil War. So it is completely portrayed
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: in this simplistic and wrong actually falls away as democracy
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: versus versus fascist. It was also the first to war
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: where the history was written by the defeated side.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because they would be the intellectuals. Yeah bye. Uh,
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: now we're gett into some serious stuffy Christian says, I
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: disagree concerning Messy's foul against Algeria. Three.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: This is the third week we're discussing that that's not
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: a yellow It doesn't mean that if you touch the
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: guy and his he it's a red card. It could
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: have been a yellow card and life could have gone on.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: Like from the World Cup. From what you've seem with Messy,
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: is this what's stuck in your mind from all the
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: things that you've seen. Is this the highlight of the
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: World Cup?
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: He says, I also think that the canceled red card
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: against Balog was justified in Germany. In German football, such
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: actions always lead to red cards as they endanger the
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: health of the players.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: Look, if you would give that red card, you know,
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't go out to protest with guns like Senate
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: five in Spain. But come on, he didn't give the
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: red card. It's not the end of the world. It
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: was the first game versus Ziria. Like, who cares?
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: All right, Josh says, I missed the live show today.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you both. Thanks for the fifty dollars. Josh really
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: appreciate it. And Christian, okay, we need did that one.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: Let's see. Shurety of course, cheers to the show. Thank you, Shorty,
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: really appreciate that. All right. Let's see, we had some stickers.
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: Let me thank the stick of people, Dennis, and I
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: think this is Dennis is ye, it's Dennis first super
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: chat ever. Thank you, Dennis really appreciate that. Dennis Enerick,
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, and let's see Woland thank you,
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: and so yeah, there it is Wes one hundred dollars.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Wes really thank you that. And let's see
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: we've got.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: Also not to guild people. But I don't know if
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: we've mentioned it. From the money they sent a big part,
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: some part goes to YouTube. So more is always better.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: Quantity of contributions of separate like horizontal contribution is better.
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: So don't say things that I gave a hundred Nicholas
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: and Yourn gets a hundred more.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: Ran Gavielli, thank you. Yes, more is always better than less. Absolutely,
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: and we are Nichols and I Agreedy, Bunny thank you,
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: and Cook thank you. Let's see, I think I got everybody. Yeah,
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: I got one. Okay, thank you, guys. Really really appreciate
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: the support. But keep it coming. We still way behind
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: a goal, but would be good question. Okay, ncause, I
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: hope you weren't too sad about the World Cup final,
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: but I thought Spain was too strong. They haven't been
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: beaten for three years.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: The night before the final, I told you it's difficult
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: even to threaten Spain. I didn't expect that Agentina wouldn't
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: do a shuit. No, I was. I was not sad
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: because Spain deserved it.
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: Two.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, I was sad, but Spain is there. It was.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: We've never seen such a dominant team throughout the whole tournament.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: Throughout they conceidered I think only they conceided only one goal,
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: and you couldn't say you couldn't even threaten them. So
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: we we We will remember this as the most dominant
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: team in my lifetime, at least to ever win the
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: World Cup.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I want a They weren't a what
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: do you call it an exciting team to watch? Right?
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: They played beautiful, but they weren't super exciting, right, But
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: it was beautiful. I remember the twenty ten Spanish team.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: That one was twenty ten, right, they were an amazing team.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: I mean the crisp passing, the I mean it was
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: just a.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: They had chavi Esta, Buskits, Torres Villa.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I expected them to dominate the World Cups
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: for years to come. I was surprised that they kind
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: of faded as quickly as they did. After winning the
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: European Cup.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 2: They did something that no one has done in recent history.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: They won Euro world Cup, Euro and now they won
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: euro world Cup. Let's see the euro said two years.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so they played beautiful, beautiful football. It's just not
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of goals. They don't score a lot of goals,
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: which is.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: But they controlled the game. That's important thing. Nothing happens,
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: which is something that they don't want it to happen
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: in the game. That's the most important thing.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: Absolutely completely control of the game. It's at their pace.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: You know. They do what they want to do, except
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: it would be nice if they scored a few more goals.
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: All right, that's just me Christian, he says Elon Musk
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: recently recently sounds like a luxury communist. There will be
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: this is he's quoting Elone Musk. Basically there will be
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: no scarcity, hence no money in the future. How can
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: he make such silly statements. I mean literally said in
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: ten years, not in that distant future. In ten years
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: there will be no money. You know. It's like he's
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: listening to John Lennon or watching Star Trek. No money
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: in ten years you know, he's not very I mean,
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: this is my view. We'll see what he says. Musk
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: is not sophisticated philosophically or economically. He has no real
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: understand He's a he's a phenomenal businessman and he's you know,
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: arguably a great engineer. And he has vision. I mean,
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: he has this amazing vision for engineering products, but he
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: has zero sophistication when it comes to ideas. He's not
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: an intellectual, he's an anti intellectual. And the problem is
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: everybody treats him as if he's an intellectual and you know,
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: therefore highlights. But he's very dangerous. I mean this idea
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: of no money, this idea of no scarcity as if
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, what's scarce right now? iPhones are scarce, right,
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: and imagine what an iPhone will be able to do.
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: What the equivalent iPhone could be in ten years with AI,
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: that'd be scarce. And you know, maybe it'd be a
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: thousand times better than iPhone because of AI, but it'll
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: still be scarce. Because there's always something more that we want,
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: There's always something greater. There's no limit to human needs,
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: there's no limit to human wants. And these people think
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: the standup living way right now? Is it? If the
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: stand up a living wave right now, is it? Then yeah,
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: a I can produce everything we produced today cheaper and
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: with more abundance. True, but what more when that happens,
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: much more when that happens, And that's what they don't get.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: And he's so superficial with the politics. The other day
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: he tweeted something like, it's a scandal that a Greek
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: neo Nazi is in prison. That's literally a guy with
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: a swastika, and now having a swastika is not a crime,
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: I mean a criminal crime. But he was leading a
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: group that did actual crimes, including a murdering, a murdering people.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 2: He was leading the Golden Dawn, So he has no idea.
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: He saw someone saying something like, all, this guy's in
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 2: prison because he's probably anti Wok or under emigration, and
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: he thought this is like a political political persecution and
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: he clearly has zero idea what he's what he's talking
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 2: what he's talking about.
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sad because you know, a lot of businessmen
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: don't know what, don't know much about these kind of issues,
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: but they keep their mouth. Elon Musk is on Twitter
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: every single day spouting and half his tweets a complete nonsense.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, and that's also a problem for the world,
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 2: because I think tweeters do is bad for him. He
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: must spend their hours every day. How much he tweets,
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: he tweets.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and much better if you spent it thinking about
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: engineering problems by Mary Allen says I love you guys,
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: Thank you Mary Lane create It also says you are
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: both loud and clear. That was earlier when we asked
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: for We appreciate that, Ryan says you on how do
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: you find the heat in Spain in August? Look, it's
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: it's hot, right, It's it's mostly in the eighties. It's
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: a it's you know, I'll be in Barcelona, so it's
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: not not South Spain, but you know, it's it's it
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: goes into the nineties. It's it's humid. But you know,
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: I live in Puerto Rico, which is humid all you round.
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: And now Puerto Rica doesn't go over ninety and and
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: but Salona does. But you know, there's air conditioning in
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: you know, I have a AB and B with air conditioning.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't get one without. I find it pleasant that
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: there's a breeze because it's right on the Mediterranean, so
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: you get a bit of a breeze off the Mediterranean,
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: and it's so Yeah, if I spent a huge amount
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: of time outdoors, it would be tough. It's also the
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: other thing about Barcelona, the streets are shaded. There's tons
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: of trees and buildings, so the tall buildings on both sides,
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: so you're always in the shade, or you can always
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: be on the side of the street where they shade.
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: So I don't find it bad at all. I like
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: I prefer heat to cold, so.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: And whatever you hear from right wing idiots on tweeter,
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: ninety nine point nine nine percent of the houses at
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 2: least in South and Europe have air condition because may
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 2: I think they've created this, like European Union doesn't allow
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 2: has banned their conditions. I don't know a single house
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: increased without a NED condition least like Antise. My grandmothers
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: in the village, they have a condition.
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And and and you know it's not in Europe
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: that doesn't have a conditioning and partially is they don't
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: really need it until recently. And there are some net
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: zero like in Britain, some net zero wars that make
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: it very difficult to put an air conditioning in.
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 2: But but yeah, usually business place sorry, city planning laws
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 2: like your house is to also we shouldn't we shouldn't
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 2: alter its appearance.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: Yep. But there are ways around that if you if
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: you're willing to invest in it, there's way always ways
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: around that. But it's also you know, I will say
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: that Europeans keep the air conditioning at a warmer setting,
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: and I think like if you go into store or
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: if you're going to an office building in Europe, it's
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: it's warmer than if you're go into store an office
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: building in America.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, one hundred percent. Mine is at twenty six currently,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 2: and I'm trying to see how much this is. Mine
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: is at seventy eight fire a night, and that's the
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: proper one also for saving money and also to have
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: a stable stable.
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so seventy eight is way too warm for me.
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: I like it to be close to the seventy five,
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: seventy seventy five, but my wife loves seventy eight. So
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: our living room is seventy eight, my office is seventy
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: four to seventy five. We have different air you know,
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: we have anyway, we have different air conditioning systems of
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: different rooms but or different parts of the of the
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: of the of the apartment. But but yeah, their difference
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: is but I find I find Spain very pleasant. Now
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: the big issue for me is going to be in Barcelona.
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: Not air conditioning, not the weather, none of that. It's
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: the you know, and we'll see, right because last I
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: was it two years ago, I think it's a lot worse.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: Now it's going to be having to see like every
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: day on everywhere Palestinian flags.
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 2: That I have come to Athens.
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think Barcelona has gotten worse than it
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: was two years ago. But I'll tell you more when
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: I get there, and and it will kind of determine,
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: you know, whether in the future I'm still going to
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: spend time in Barcelona. Is kind of the you know,
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: what I feel, what I since the atmosphere is over
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: there and I'm here in Lisbon and there's none of
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: that in Listen. I really liked Lisbon in that sense.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: There's there's just no you don't see Palestini flags, there's
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: no there's no stress around. I mean, there are immigrants here,
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: mainly from Africa, some from Indian and Pakistan. But you
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: don't get the same kind of tension I think you
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: get in some of the parts of Europe around immigration
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: here in Portugal. I mean, maybe the Portuguese will correct me,
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: but at least I don't. I don't sense it as
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: as somebody visiting here like I do in Spain and
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: in other places. All Right, let's see Eric. Eric says,
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: people who enjoy thinking will do incredible things with AI.
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: How would you design a program for improving thinking habits
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: inside an organization given them many people have spent years
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: reinforcing bad intellectual habits. Wow. I mean, that's really an
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: interesting question. And I'd say, use the you know, set
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: up a program where the AI does all the rot stuff,
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: all the stuff that you that most people in management
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: spend fifty percent of their time which requires no creativity,
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: no original thinking, no nothing. Let AI do that and
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: imagine then you've got now one hundred percent of the time,
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: and then maybe the system can bod you to become
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: find ways to prod the individual to become more creative,
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: to spend more time on thinking about you know, outside
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: the box issues rather than the rot that that's so
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: many you know, filling forms and management there's a lot
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: of there's a lot of standardized you know, just repetition
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: that you could be just that will all gone, that
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: will all go, that will all disappear, you know, reporting, accounting,
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: all of that is going to be automatized. But yeah,
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: you there should be a way to actually stimulate, to
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: prod people, to remind them to be more creative, more,
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: to think more, and to think more deeply. Now what
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: some people might not not have that capacity, but that
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: we will discover very quickly. I think will ai that
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: people who don't get jobs are the people who can't
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: hack it. You know, once you take away all the
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: simple stuff, they can't make it, right, Enrick, it would
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: be interesting to do a show on the origin and
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: evolution of anarchism. I agree with its, including its libertarian version,
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: so you know, kind of just.
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: I'm just I can't grasp it. I have a book
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: like that with the history of anarchism, yeah, which is yeah,
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: but the problem is where where do you begin. Some
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 2: people claim that you begin from Lausu or from Asian tradition,
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: but we can't do one and we can agree with the.
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: Real influences and let's say the Russian anarchist the ones
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: who ass whatever.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: Again, then we begin with cropotaking, the more traditional stuff.
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: And we also it's very interesting to see how some
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 2: of archo capitalists actually come from that tradition rather than
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: from the Austrian tradition. So they discovered that tradition first,
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 2: and then the Austrian scholor then the other way around.
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: Did it start in Russia, the European version the right, Well,
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: Bakunin was Roussia, and but in some ways you could
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: say started in Roussia.
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was the most the earliest where
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 2: it was let's say visible because most of the assassinations,
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 2: but not in terms of the quantity. Quantity wise, Spain
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 2: was the capital of the historical capital of anarchists.
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: The intellectual origins you think of Russian.
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 2: Was friends, but I was never very much convinced that
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 2: was I would say, But if I had to pick one,
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: I would say Russia.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, it would be interesting to think about. I mean,
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: Kennon Dostoyevsky, and and like, if you think about Dostoyevsky,
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: what is he? What is it? What are the options
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: he presents you with religion, anarchy? M there's a there's
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: a once you give up religion for him the Knowles.
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: And trop Podkin was also Rossian. So yeah, the more
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: I think about an anarchist will claim that you'll find
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: in tall Stoy anarchistic. I don't know, but that's a
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: think with anarchists. They claim everyone and everything throughout. He's
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: from loudu told story yep.
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: And I don't know alloud to what influence allowed to
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: had on Western anarchists. I have no idea, all right,
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: just just mp pokey, says a fan of the whiteboard.
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 1: We said, have more whiteboard sessions in future episodes.
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: When you see the whiteboard, it means things are getting serious.
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: That's the real stuff. You know who who really institutionalized
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: the whiteboard? As as as explanatory on video? No Glenn
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: Beck on Fox News.
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, I had no idea.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 1: If you you didn't see Glenn Beck, you've never seen
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: shows where he in the When was this in the
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: two thousands? I guess this is when I used to
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: be in a show. I know it was probably a show.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: Four or five times he would he would, he would,
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: he would bring up the whiteboard and held said, okay,
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: let me explain progressivism to you, and he would, you know,
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: put the whole thing with arrows and lines and where
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: it comes from. And then he would leave the whiteboat
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: in the background. For a few shows, it would be
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: in the background, and he often went to the background,
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: and I think that's what made him He became a
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: huge He was the biggest star on Fox for a while.
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: And I think it was the whiteboard routine really resonated
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: with people. Really people really liked it. Yeah, So I'll
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 1: see if I can find a video of gunn Back
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: doing it, because he had real charisma. I mean, he
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 1: really pulled it off amazingly well because you know what
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: he because he literally turned his back to the camera,
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: which you should never do, right, and he was writing
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: on the blackboard. And yet it worked on Fox News
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: on television, it worked.
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: So it's the thing is it's actually very helpful because
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: some things you can't not the program, like we could
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: say screen but this we know with it, but everyone
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: just having.
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 1: The actual writing on the whiteboard. So I used to
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: love writing when I used to teach. I love writing
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: on white boys. I hate power porn presentations. I like
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: writing on a with chalk or on a white boat
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: because it has a pace to it, right, it slows
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 1: you down and you have to explain it, and you
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: have to keep talking while you're writing, and it causes
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: you to slow down and explain in more depth what
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: it is that you're conveying. So I actually like the
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: process of actually not just bringing out a white board.
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: We're actually writing on the white boat. So that's the
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: next phase, because you know, we'll get you to write
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: on the white boat.
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, Now that reminds me my favorite Tyron Brook moment.
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 2: She has a presentation somewhere and ask him do you
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 2: have a It was the first years that I didn't
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 2: know him. That's what I said, do you have a PowerPoint?
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: And his answer is no, I have a personality.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: God, I don't remember that. It's a good answer. I
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: like that, all right. I don't remember saying that. But
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 1: there's a there's a video of me doing a lecture
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 1: in Israel years ago at at at a college and
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: it's a classroom setting and I started writing on the
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: board and it just and I fell out the whole
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: board with stuff and I can't even remember what I think.
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: I can't remember what the topic was, but it was
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: it was some intellectual cop and I just got carried
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 1: away with with the writing. I enjoyed it so much.
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: It was it was a blast. It was a really
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: good class. All right. Thoughts on Spain immigration situation right now,
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: this is more.
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 2: What you it's what you see that what the comment
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 2: that doesn't need this is. It's something that is for me.
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 2: It should never happen, and it's I wonder how it happened. This.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: This is this, you know, I don't believe the conspiracy theors,
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: but this cannot be organic, and I wonder organic.
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: It's not a conspiracy theory. The reality is, do you
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: know Homa Waco annexed, actually took control of what's called
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: the Western Sahara, the south part of Morocco that used
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 1: to be occupied by Spain, and they basically marched two
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand people into that territory and the Spanish wouln't
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: get to shoot two hundred thousand people. So ultimately the
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 1: Spanish just oh, okay, we'll leave and just gave it
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 1: to them. And to this day it's contested because I
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: think that region wants independence. And then the same thing
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: here there are two enclaves basically you know, one town
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: and one ports as you said, that are owned by
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: the Spanish. The Moroccans don't like that, and so they
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 1: they're not It's not like these people wouldn't do it,
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: but the Moroccan troops will basically say the border patrol,
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: which usually keeps these people back where, can say no,
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: it's over there, just cross that bridge. It's right over there,
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: and they're handing out checks and there's food over there.
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: And so people went, Look, people are desperate in Africa.
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 1: They're poor, they're hungry, they they have no way go.
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: They're ruled by regimes that are you know, Morocco is
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 1: one of the better Arab regimes, and it's still pretty
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: pathetic and poor, and there's a lot of unemployment. And
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: then if you go in Sub Sahara Africa, yeah, I
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: mean there's nothing there for them. If you live in
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: the Congo, there's nothing to live for, there's no hope.
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: So the better people, I think, the best of them,
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: start walking north because where else? What are the else
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: are they going to do? And then the question is, Okay,
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 1: does Europe have an immigration strategy? These people are coming, right,
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: they're coming, and do you have an immigration strategy? One
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: strategy would be we shoot them, we don't let them
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: come and we'll just shoot them and prevent the from coming.
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: Another is, you know, we find the better people, the
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: people who are willing to work, and we give them
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: a legal path in. And the other strategy which they're
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: employing today is we'll find it very very you know,
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: a big pile of sand, and will stick our head
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: deep inside the pile of sand and pretend nothing is happening,
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: and see what happens. Clearly Europe needs to resist the
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: immigration of Muslims, particularly Islamists. There has to be a
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: way for them to block. Yeah, but that doesn't mean
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: no immigration. There are plenty of Africans who are not Muslims.
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: There plenty of Africans that are not Islamists that you know,
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 1: you're probably you know, certainly from an economic constrictive needs
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 1: and doesn't have and there's a sense in which doesn't
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: have a right to keep them out. So it's just
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 1: a matter of actually facing the issue. The issue is
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 1: Islam and particularly the Islamists, and figure out how you
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 1: keep them out and kick out a lot of the
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 1: ones that are already in Europe and bring in the people
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 1: who are going to actually contribute to Europe. And part
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: of that is stop giving them welfare, that is, you
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: cannot dangle this prize. We'll give you three thousand euro
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 1: if you make it in Germany. I mean, if you're
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 1: if you're if you're an African, why would you not
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: try to cross it? I mean, and if you die
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: crossing the Mediterranean, your life was no better than if
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 1: you'd stayed in the in in some of these countries
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: in Africa. So why would you not risk it if
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: there's three thousand dollars euros waiting for you, you know,
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: on the other side.
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: So, and this was the first time that the termin
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 2: invasion did not sound like, you know, a culture war properly.
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 2: This looked like a proper organized Yeah.
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is Morocco sending a message to Spain.
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: And these people were starving, so they broke into stores
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: and they took food. It's not surprising, It's what you'd expect.
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 1: And instead of instead of Europe saying, okay, this real
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: problem because we had a border with these countries, they
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: were literally, we need to solve this problem. There's no solution.
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: They offering zero solutions, and they're afraid to even name
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 1: the issue. Right, you cannot name it as Islam. Did
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 1: you see this debate at the Oxford Union. Oh you
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: posted about it, Yeah, you posted the Danish cartoon. One
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 1: not the Danish cartoon there, Charlie hebdo he was threatened one.
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: We thought it would be threatening to show the cartoon.
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 1: And it was just fascinating. How afraid afraid of just
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: naming the issue? Uh? And and and and you know,
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: and one woman out there said to I think it
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: was Tommy Robinson was there, and she says to him,
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: do you realize that it's only us we moderate Muslims here,
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: we liberal Muslims, pro free speech muslim that are preventing
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 1: you from being slaughtered by the people out there. But
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, she didn't say anything, and it's like you're
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: making the point those people want to slaughter him for
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 1: his opinions. It's like you want to whip your heir.
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 2: Up after after the first sock. You know what was
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 2: the one thing that stuck to me from that debate?
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: You are the one person who'll understand me. Every single
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: person was reading from notes. I was like, people, you like,
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 2: this guy Will has three million views on you two.
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 2: Your talk is like ten minutes? Can you not be
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: able to give it ten minutes? Talk? About something that
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: important without notes. Yes, so let's get people to take
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 2: your workshop. It's it's not around anymore. If your course
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 2: in a are you wherever they can find it or
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 2: to find through Razzi my course on public take a
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 2: good course. Guys. Don't be like these guys. Millions of
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 2: people and you're like.
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 1: The tummy Wamson weed from notes.
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 2: Yes he even horse, he had like an iPad, like
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 2: for God's sake, You've been speaking about these things for
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 2: like twenty years.
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: It's ridiculous, ridiculous. So if you want to see how
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 1: it's done, check out my Cambridge union debate, because my
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: Oxford union debates never made it to video sadly, Uh,
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 1: I had some great lines and those ones, uh you
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: know about one was a financial crisis. But my Oxford,
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 1: my my Cambridge one did where I called for privatizing
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 1: the the NIH and the whole room erupted and almost
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 1: you know, it was almost as bad as the Muslims.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 1: They were coming after me, but that was no goal,
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 1: and it was super entertaining and people, even my opponents,
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 1: appreciated the fact that there was passion. And anyway, yep, it's.
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 2: Easier to go to the Vatican and challenge the Pope
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 2: that I don't go and have a debate in the
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 2: UK against the NA Yep.
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 1: Well I did that at Cambridge, so they haven't invited
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: me back yet. All right. Rowland says, payment for Nikos.
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 1: Keep the show going, you guys, I love it. Thank you,
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: thanks very much, Lan, Linda, thank you Nikos and you
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: are and thank you Linda, thank you, uh just just
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 1: and Pokey thanking us for the work you put in.
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: It really shows.
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, not to boast some of these things,
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 2: are you anyway? But I put work.
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 1: He puts in work every week. Roland, don't forget about
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 1: the Greek national anthem him to liberty. There's a concept
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: I can get behind.
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you should. You should read the lyrics that
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 2: like they're like a death metal lyrics. But the thing is,
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 2: you know, for me it speaks a lot, but to
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 2: the average here the music is not that. It's not
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 2: like the Spanish or the Italian where you know, you
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 2: listen to it at the beginning of a game and
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 2: you want to tear up your clothes and get in
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 2: the arena. It's it's it's a different type.
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 2: That's a very beautiful poem if you find the whole poem.
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when was it? When was it? When was the composed?
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 1: When was it written?
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 2: Around the time of the Greek Revolution the eighth twenties.
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 1: Twenties, I think when they could write, yep, how should you?
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: How should you maintain the rivers Danube Rhine water levels?
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 1: If these droughts keep coming more often and more intensely,
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 1: we need them for trade.
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 2: Who says that there are more droughts? By the way,
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 2: do we have facts about that?
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 1: There's I don't know what's causing it. But the level
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 1: of the Danube right now the Rhine is a historical
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 1: lose and they can barely move boats along it. So
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: there must be a drought somewhere or they're they're consuming
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 1: the water out of it. Imagine if you privatize the Danube,
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 1: and and you created legal rights on the Danube, and
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 1: people had an incentive to keep to keep the water
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: levels at certain levels. You could baild locks and dams
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 1: and I mean dams with locks so that you could
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 1: move ships along them. You could you could then, I
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 1: mean the water in the Danube and whine, my guesses,
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 1: is used for agriculture. Imagine if the price flunctuated based
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 1: on the amount of water in the river. So as
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 1: that let's say there was a drought and the amount
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 1: of water declined, and then you raised prices on use
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 1: of the water, then agriculture will have to find different
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 1: you know, that have to become more efficient at using
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 1: the water. But they would buy less, so there wouldn't
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 1: be the river wouldn't low it. So it's all an
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: issue of if you had dynamic pricing of water. All
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 1: of these things are solvable through property rights.
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 2: If Netherlands managed to live below sea level, if Israel
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 2: manags to get water out of the desert, it's doable.
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's just a matter of craning right incentives.
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: But if if nobody owns the rivers, nobody cares.
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 2: And also being ambcious, being ambitious, not being faked. At
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 2: least they go, we're gonna run out of water. No,
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 2: we can find solutions to everything.
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, one of the real I talked
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: about this on the show yesterday. I think, I mean
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 1: the shortage of what in California is driven by the
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 1: fact that the priority although water goes to almond farmers. Almonds,
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 1: which is one of the biggest consumers of water in
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 1: the world, you give it. You give it to them
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: in California, which is a dry state. Almonds should be
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: grown in wet states, not dry states. But if you
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: subsidize the water and the state sells it to you
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 1: really cheap, what the hell? Why not? I can make
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of money, you know, growing almonds and shipping
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 1: them to China, which is what they do. So you know,
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 1: capitalism solves these problems. Privatization solves these problems.
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Franco did some crazy projects like that, and he
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 2: spent a ridiculous amount of money for nothing, but most
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 2: all states do.
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 1: Jennifer says, thank you, Ron and Nikos, love your knowledge
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: and enthusiasm. Thank you, je uh I said, Neo says
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 1: you on. I doubt moderate Muslims exist. I know a few.
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 1: Even if they reject the Islamists, they'd still implement Islamic
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 1: law given power. How do you know that? I mean,
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 1: And you've got a bunch of Muslim countries that for
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 1: a long time were pretty secular and were run by
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 1: unfortunately run by athalitarians, so they didn't go anywhere in
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 1: the Islamists. One of the reasons Islamism grew in these
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 1: countries was because of the brutality of the secular authorities,
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 1: but there was there were secular Muslim Muslim countries. There
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 1: is now. Albania is a Muslim country that's secular. Azerbaijan
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 1: is a Muslim country that's secular. You know, women are
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 1: walking on in bikinis and Azerbaijan and then the tourists
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 1: who come in from like Dubai walking in full you
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 1: know what do you call it black bookas and you've
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 1: got the bikinis right next next to them. So there's
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: just no evidence of that. Nobody's ever stood up to
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 1: the Islamist and said, you know, shut up and and
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 1: and know your place, and and we don't take you seriously,
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: and we're not interested in what you have to think.
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 1: And if you're going to be violent, you're going to
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 1: go to jail for the rest of your life and
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: you're never gonna be seen again. That it would disappear
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: if you did that. And there are moderate Muslims, you know,
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 1: even in you know, the modermate Muslims in India, you know,
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 1: the moderate Muslims in Bangladesh. Bangladesh is moving towards more
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 1: moderate Islam. It used to be much more Slamist. Arguably,
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 1: there's a big battle in Pakistan between the Islamists and
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 1: the moderates. The moderates we're educated on the British educational
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 1: system and they're much more moderate and secular. So I
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 1: don't think that's true. He continues, I've seen second generation
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 1: Peers trade freedom to follow the Quran. Study. Yes, because
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 1: right now in the world, and this is right now,
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 1: the reality is that if you're young, if you're young
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 1: and you're looking for idealism, where you're going to find it?
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: If you're if you're if you're in the West, you
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 1: can find it in one of three places, communism or
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 1: socialist social democrat, democrats or whatever you want to call it,
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 1: fascism of all the variant types, or Islamism. That's where
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 1: idealism lives. And you know, straight Western civilization is boring
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 1: to the young. Right, it's non idealistic, it's cynical, it's skeptical,
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's ealitarian in a in a subversive
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 1: kind of an implicit sense, not with the idealistic ealitarianism
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 1: of of of a of a communist. And so if
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 1: you're looking for an ideal like Nikos was when he
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 1: was young and he went to Communist rout. If you're
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: if you're raised Muslim and you see your parents and
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 1: they're you know, they're moderate Muslims and they were living
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 1: a middle class life in England, and you're like, I
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 1: want more than that, I want I want something to
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 1: die for it, then you're going to go to the
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 1: Islamist drout. So you know, this is the absence of
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 1: idealism in the West, absence of idealism of good values
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 1: that is leading to this. Islamism is just one of
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 1: the several evil ideologies. This is attractive to young people.
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 1: It's why during Isis so many regular European, white Europeans
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 1: volunteered to go fight vices and Syria because they were
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 1: fighting for something. And this even white Europeans, Christian Europeans
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 1: found that intriguing and interesting and fascinating because their life
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 1: is so dull and devoid of values. This is the crisis.
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 1: The crisis in the West is indeed a crisis of meaning.
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 1: But they're looking for meaning in all the wrong places.
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 2: And actually many of the people who went and fought
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 2: in Spain in the International Brigades were not just intellectuals,
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 2: many working class, working class kids who were out of
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 2: job because of the great of the depression.
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 1: And then we'll look at something to fight for, something
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 1: they can believe in, something they say, you know, idealism.
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 1: And one of the evils of modern philosophy and modern
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 1: culture is the death of idealism. And you know, I
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 1: don't know if you saw this interview of Christopher Nolan
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 1: with I haven't seen the movie yet. I'm going to
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 1: see it on I've got tickets on Friday. I'm going
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 1: to see it. I'll do a whole show on it.
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 1: But I saw this interview today with Christopher Nolan with
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 1: the Chinese. Did you see this one?
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 2: I saw people commenting on it on Twitter, but I
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 2: haven't what the third one?
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a short it's a short interview, and Christopher
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 1: Nolan say something like, I can't trate the exact wording,
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 1: but basically, you have to have a flawed hero because
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 1: it's the only way the audience will relate to it. Right,
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 1: something like that. Right, And so when you have the best,
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: maybe arguably the best director in Hollywood today saying heroes
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 1: need to be fraud in order for the culture to
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 1: relate to them, something is very rotten right in the
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: culture because you cannot project ideals. The only movie where
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 1: he really did that was Interstella. He hasn't really done
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 1: that in any other movie. All those other movies that
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 1: he was a flawed and mixed and sometimes confused, and
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 1: because you can't project that even in Interstella anyway. We
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 1: can talk about Interstella another time, but even there, the
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 1: problems that come out of this kind of cynical philosophy
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 1: that exists.
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 2: And of course we're talking about the lack of idealist
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 2: Our wider movement, the liberty movement, is one of them
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 2: most ideal is less places and movements in history. It's
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 2: absolutely pathetic. We have the best ideas in the usure
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 2: of humanity, and it's like, you know, here's my graphs.
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 2: It's it's absolutely pathetic. We make a virtue of or no,
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 2: we're not in the way. We are compro in the middle
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 2: of the way. It's it's pathetic.
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 1: It's pathetic, except fine, except finely.
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 2: Yea yeah, yeah.
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 1: To me, the biggest strategy of the twentieth century, that's
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 1: a big statement, so I better live up to it.
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 1: The biggest strategy of the twentieth century. Ultimately will be
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 1: the people like Misses and Hyek and Freedmen and those
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 1: guys did not take Iron went Seriously.
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 2: Can you believe that Freedman did not want to stand
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 2: against the draft on moral grounds? Even that topic, He
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 2: fought against the draft, but he declined to do it
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 2: on moral grounds. He only did it an economic I
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 2: don't believe in.
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 1: He declined to different capitalism grounds. And Hayek started Atlas
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 1: Shrugged and couldn't finish it. Misus was the only one
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 1: who liked it, but he couldn't completely get it because
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 1: he was so committed to pexology. I mean, just imagine
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 1: that if Einmand publishes Atlas Shrugged and people like Mesas
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 1: and Hayek and Friedman and people of that caliber rally
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 1: around her, that those are the people who say, yes,
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 1: finally we have a moral argument for capitalism. Finally we
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 1: have a defensive reason. Let's go, guys. The world changes,
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, it completely changes. And the fact that they
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 1: were like, yeah, great book, but but not but didn't
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 1: get the ideas, didn't get the philosophy. God, it's so tragic.
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 2: Literally tragic, because it contains a course of history. So
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 2: this is not an exaggeration.
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 1: It's it's basically it caused the movement, the so called
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 1: liberty move when to be retarded and and and delayed.
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 1: The the rise of La fay capitalis my one hundred
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 1: years I think. Anyway, Ian says, I'm currently reading James Elroys.
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 1: Elroy's Red Sheet with the Spanish of a war is
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 1: a big part of the background, including the attack on
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: the nuns were a major claim. Interesting to get the
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 1: real history.
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, again, there were attacks on nuns and on priests,
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 2: and it was disgusting, and there were thousands of religious
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 2: figures executed. It's and this this is absolutely a stained
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 2: in the history of the left. But we're not here
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 2: to defend the left. So everyone knows that the left
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 2: are savagis like, that's my that's my point. We know
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 2: that they are savagis the site that fights the left.
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 2: They should not be savagis That's that's the whole point. Anyway,
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 2: our friend mentioned in the book, this has nothing to
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 2: do with you, my friend. Yeah, Joy, and I haven't
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 2: read the book, but it's it's again, it's such a
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 2: period of so much stuff happening that these books are
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 2: quite usually it's quite interesting to study.
• 2:19:11
  Speaker 1: Them just in pokies as nikos. Which team do you
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 1: support in PL League and what style of football do
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 1: you like to watch?
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 2: I support Liverpool since ninety eighty nine. Unfortunately they're also
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 2: the most left wing, an anti Thatcher team. The type
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 2: of football I like to watch is the Spanish type,
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 2: what they used to call tikitaka. So I'm a huge
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 2: Pep Guardiola fan, but I also like the high intensity
• 2:19:42
  Speaker 2: Hugien club football geg and pressing, press up like strangle,
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 2: strangle the strangly opponent, So the opposite of whatever Argentina
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 2: was playing.
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 1: YEP, Women's says. The Economis published an article quote the
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 1: rise of the Deserving Rich, that might be of interest
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 1: to you. Real producers are winning.
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 2: The undeserving though. That's that's what I'm curious of the aristocrats.
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 1: The old European wealth is.
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 2: About how many people are around like that, So most people,
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 2: when they say deserving it is they probably be like
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 2: five people.
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they mean a few entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley, but
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 1: almost all the rich are deserving rich. You know now, yes,
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 1: if you inhabited your money, you're deserving. Are you undeserving?
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, maybe you're not deserving in the same sense
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 1: as an entrepreneur who creates it, but you're not undeserving.
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 1: I mean you inhabited it. So the whole conception is
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 1: screwed up. All right. Last question goes to just In
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 1: Poke Us asked a lot of questions today.
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 2: That's always a sad moment when I hear that. The
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 2: last question.
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, somebody could still step in and alleviate your sadness.
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 1: Do you guys know where the full debate is? I
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 1: can't find it. Which debate?
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, clost but the.
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 1: Clips are fascinating. The whole room was so scared of
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 1: that envelope. Funny and sad.
• 2:21:12
  Speaker 2: So quite often they don't. They release the debates in segments,
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 2: and sometimes they don't release them at all, as they
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 2: did with yarn So film.
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 1: Those are the days where they weren't filmed. This is
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 1: the early to twenty teens. Really didn't have a camera there. Yeah,
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 1: that's crazy.
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 2: Anyway, almost every intervention, if you search enough on Twitter,
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 2: you can find it from a phone camera. It's not
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 2: a great debate. It was completely counterclimactic. It's just that
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 2: there are some moments of interesting stuff.
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, and sensing the fear is important. I know with
• 2:21:50
  Speaker 1: the Cambridge Debate, they released clips, they released a few
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 1: of the single things before they released the entire debate
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 1: as a video. So sometimes weeks afterwards they released the
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 1: entire debate. But the speculation they won't release this at
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 1: all because they were faith so who knows. But then
• 2:22:09
  Speaker 1: it's not clear why they would release the the segments.
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 1: We will be on next week on Saturday, not Sunday, so.
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 2: Let's give a preview to people. So next week we're
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 2: going to talk about Jadvans in his new book. I
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 2: think eleven of September, whatever is around there. We should
• 2:22:29
  Speaker 2: talk about another darling of the writing of some libertarians,
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 2: General Augusta Pino set because it's the anniversary of his school. Okay, yep,
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 2: and that, and then if people have any good ideas,
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 2: please let us know or do suggestions.
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 1: Suggested anarchism in my w do that so, but yes,
• 2:22:52
  Speaker 1: generally send lists of requests and you know, in the
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 1: years to come we will try to cover all of
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 1: them all right, And yes, so next week I think
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 1: most of August. There might be one date in August
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 1: that I can do it, but I think we should
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 1: have almost all the weekends in August, we should we
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 1: will have a show.
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 2: All right, everybody, what's that?
• 2:23:22
  Speaker 1: And hopefully by then I will have figured out all
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 1: the mechanics of my setup so that we can start
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 1: on time and with no technical issues. Thank you nicos,
• 2:23:34
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys, particularly the super chatters, Thanks to everybody
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 1: in the stick of people. We will I will see
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 1: you all. No show tomorrow. I'm in no Way tomorrow
• 2:23:43
  Speaker 1: for for eighteen hours or sixteen hours, I go to Norway.
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 1: I'll go speak to three four hundred kids I think
• 2:23:50
  Speaker 1: in South Norway and then Southwest Norway, and then I'll
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 1: be back. So the next show is Wednesday. Wednesday, all right,
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 1: bye everybody, Bye everybody,