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Are Small Groups Bad? · The Reformatory

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: What do you got for me?
• 0:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: As long as I'm not for me, we could have had the benediction right there, that was so good.
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: What's going on everyone and welcome to the reformatory, the podcast for the local church, and by the local church, and we are your local church.
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: My name is Josh, and I'm here as always with the man, the myth, the legend Jack.
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: buried the captain in the house, uh, both of us looking, looking, looking forward to felt, is that what it is, felt, looking short.
• 0:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, short.
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm not quite sure.
• 1:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm sure, that's not sure.
• 1:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: 100% uh, but a Jack big announcement on the, on the health front.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, all right.
• 1:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: As of when this episode drops,
• 1:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: your boy is down 50 pounds big five oh check this check this hang on hang on I got to take the headphones off for this cue the cue the audience cue the audience cue it um your claps
• 1:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I hate to be the guy to don't, don't, don't put me down.
• 1:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: To use the scripture of, you know, kind of, one up yourselves up, you know, but I am down.
• 1:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't, I don't, I don't know.
• 1:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're supposed to, I'll do me an honor.
• 1:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: I, I am supposed to outdo you and I have outdone you in weight loss and I'm down 55.
• 2:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm sorry.
• 2:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know what?
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
• 2:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: But it's time that we only paid attention to the first half of that verse.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Outdo one another.
• 2:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Period.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's all Jack Red.
• 2:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's all he read.
• 2:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's all.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's all.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's all.
• 2:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's all.
• 2:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was there pretty much pretty much.
• 2:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Congrats 55 down is pretty good.
• 2:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: My man.
• 2:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: 100%.
• 2:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just came out of the gym and I was sick all last week with a cold and I just felt weak and nasty and I'm like trying to jam Metallica to try to get myself a little bit of it again and like oh yeah I don't know if I can do this we'll see you know Metallica some good work out some good work I had it was a guy on Twitter what's his name Colton something Colton Yarrer
• 2:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Kiwi.
• 2:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Kiwi dude.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: What's with the key?
• 2:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't now, dude.
• 2:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Kiwi.
• 2:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just confused with the Kiwi as I am the Badger.
• 2:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like all of a sudden, these were formed maps.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Guys have a Badger in there and they're username.
• 3:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: And now it's a Kiwi.
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can't keep up.
• 3:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can't keep up.
• 3:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, I was going to shout him out.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: But then I didn't deal real.
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: What's with you?
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then you were going to be the emoji?
• 3:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: What do we do?
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, he put up on Twitter.
• 3:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: a workout song by the dude.
• 3:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh man, I can't reminisce with you because you weren't a Christian during this time.
• 3:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's an old Christian rock band called Disciple.
• 3:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Disciple was big in the 2000s.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay.
• 3:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I remember some, I remember, I remember, I remember the name of it.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 3:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: So if I was that into it, but
• 3:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: They put an album in 2006.
• 3:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: I had completely forgot about called Scars Remain and Colton put up on Twitter a song from that album.
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, you got to add this to your to your workout playlist.
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I listened to, I'm like, I had forgotten that song exists.
• 3:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's, uh, uh, is it, uh, came on.
• 4:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: game on by a disciple off of the Skars remain of them.
• 4:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.
• 4:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: A banger as the kids would say.
• 4:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you to Colton Kiwi, Badger Man, for putting good good music out there.
• 4:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Jack, my man, it's good to be with you.
• 4:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad that we are here doing radio as always.
• 4:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: But we got stuff to talk about.
• 4:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: And before we do that, it is time for everyone's favorite segment.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And know the time you owe them many for.
• 4:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, if I'm a dairy broadcast presenter, don't forget to eat your instant grams.
• 4:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: With your host, Josh Loftus, on Jack Mary.
• 4:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And remember, kids, it's not heresy if you'll believe it hard enough.
• 4:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is, don't forget to eat your Instagrams.
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Remember kids is not here.
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: See, if you believe it hard enough, that is how it works these days.
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Jack and I'm just gonna, I'm gonna just, no intro.
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm jumping right in.
• 4:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not gonna try to preen us.
• 4:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not gonna prepare you for this.
• 5:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 5:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: But those of us that grew up in, I'll say,
• 5:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: just non-denominational, maybe some charismatic, maybe throwing some like weak Baptist, you're gonna feel this video.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, you're gonna feel it.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Here we go.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna feel it, we're gonna feel it.
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're gonna feel it, we're gonna feel it.
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're gonna feel it, we're gonna feel it.
• 5:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're gonna feel it, we're gonna feel it.
• 5:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're gonna feel it, we're gonna feel it.
• 5:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're gonna feel it, we're gonna feel it.
• 5:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're gonna feel it, we're gonna feel it.
• 5:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're gonna feel it, we're gonna feel it.
• 5:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're gonna feel it, we're gonna feel it.
• 5:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're gonna feel it, we're gonna feel it.
• 5:42
  [UNKNOWN]: Thank you very much.
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Jack, that was what we call, in the business, special music, a special music, normally played during an offatory is the best time for special music.
• 5:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have saying that song.
• 6:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Good stuff.
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have saying that song in a fundamentalist, fundamentalist baptist shirt before.
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, yeah, yeah, it could be reclaimed for good,
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: The, the tambourines are always a must.
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you can fit the tambourines in there somewhere, you know, you know, your special music is on point for sure.
• 6:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 6:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, Jack, I'm going to hit you with this apparently last week.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and I didn't know this because I don't care.
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, was the NBA finals.
• 6:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: And apparently you missed it.
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I, not, I next man, I don't know if you like, I missed anything.
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: But that's just me.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's just me.
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: But apparently, you know, who really did not want to miss it in the middle of a church service.
• 6:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no.
• 6:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Jack, our own Judas myth.
• 6:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, please.
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are you being dead serious?
• 6:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: You guys think I'm out here playing in the streets.
• 7:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: of the NBA finals, like Judith Relaxbro, you can't start throwing stuff around it here.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: The nicks are up, yes!
• 7:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: There is a good!
• 7:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: A few moments later.
• 7:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It gets very interesting and we'll talk about it more in just a moment after the nicks win.
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: How are we doing?
• 7:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are we still up?
• 7:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh, now.
• 7:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's on commercial?
• 7:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
• 7:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, let me know when it's back from commercial because if it's back, okay, who's got the ball for real son?
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've raised my-
• 7:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: So at what point do you get off and you just leave, you know, I like I did when he when he basically said when he basically said like we're just going to stop service and just make this an ESPN gamecast.
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like no, I'm I'm like dude, I'm like SpongeBob.
• 8:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like I'm out of here.
• 8:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm getting up out of my chair.
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm all even.
• 8:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 8:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: First of all, why does he even care?
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: I, it's, it's, it's, any care, anything to, like, any, any, any reason to get on a bandwagon that you can, you know, make yourself look more like the, like, like the people's preacher, which has always been his voice.
• 8:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's always, when you were preaching that, I don't think so.
• 8:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: He was doing a speech.
• 8:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's always been the guy who's, you know, the video starts and it's a drone shot of the church and he comes up as high.
• 8:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Judas Smith.
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's not what it's not called this oh my gosh.
• 8:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not the way it's called like home something is it church home is it church?
• 8:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it's definitely called there.
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm due to Smith here at church home.
• 8:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: We do church a little bit different.
• 8:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then it's just on and then it's just it's three minutes on how they do church exactly like every other non-denominal non-denominational mega church the exact same.
• 9:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know what that sounds like that sounds like I'm not I'm not I'm not endorsing this show But I saw recent interview with Danny McBride talking about the righteous gemstones and talking about how he basically interviewed all these mega church pastors Oh, yeah, and was like how do you do this and it's like
• 9:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you go to like places that don't have churches, he's like, oh no, you go to places that do have churches and you steal those members.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then he followed up with a guy, I'd make a church pastor was like, did I get it right?
• 9:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, he like, he kind of whispered his ear to you nailed that you nailed that whole show about the whole entire mega church culture.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: which is terrible.
• 9:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's terrible that we have to go through that.
• 9:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's both cringey and funny and I hate it and I love it at the same time because it entertained me, but it's also like dang it.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Why are we killing ourselves right now?
• 9:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: People.
• 9:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wait.
• 9:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Judas Smith.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right, Judas Smith man, Judas Smith anyway.
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's that.
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was the Instagram's ladies and gentlemen.
• 10:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Pro tip from a younger pastor.
• 10:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't check the scores in the middle of your sermon.
• 10:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if you do, don't let people know you're doing it.
• 10:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's just that's just me.
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a quick flip of the finger to ESPN.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, I'm not a fan, but keep it to yourself.
• 10:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: you know, pausing the entire service to do a play by play to do a play by play game past of a of an NBA finals game.
• 10:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
• 10:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 10:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's yeah.
• 10:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 10:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we have Jack.
• 10:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: We have shenanigans like this going on in our churches all across America.
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: But for some reason.
• 10:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: for summers and people want to hate on smuggers.
• 10:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: They want to hate on smuggers.
• 10:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: They want, they think, they want to hate, they want to, they think, is your algorithm different than mine, right now?
• 10:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have not seen any of this.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: It might be, it might be, but it seems like, look, like you know how Twitter has a tide, right?
• 10:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's the Twitter tide and everything comes back.
• 11:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Everything circles back, right?
• 11:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a horseshoe.
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Or either, like, okay, examples of the Twitter tide, right?
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: you on schedule.
• 11:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're either debating, right?
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Dispensationalism versus covenantal.
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a big one, right?
• 11:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 11:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're debating, pedal baptism versus versus believers baptism.
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a big one.
• 11:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Very much.
• 11:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: We are debating yoga pants.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a big one.
• 11:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 11:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: You with me?
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: You following me?
• 11:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
• 11:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I follow any type of marital roles whatsoever in the church.
• 11:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's coming around.
• 11:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And recently, it didn't last as long as it normally does.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: But in that Twitter tied, it might not be as as large of a wave as some of those other big hitters that I named.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: But every once in a while.
• 11:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: the old debate on whether or not small groups should be utilized by the local church pops up and you hear from the individuals that for some reason have an absolute disdain for small group ministries, community groups, fellowship groups, whatever you want to call them, share them the local church.
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: You would think that the small groups are doing as much damage to the American
• 12:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: as, uh, well, pastures like shoesmith.
• 12:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, so we're gonna talk about that today because I'm just gonna put my cards out on the table.
• 12:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna put them right down right now.
• 12:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think small groups are really valuable.
• 12:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've always been a fan of small groups.
• 12:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a community group leader by the way, too.
• 12:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to hell.
• 12:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Surprise.
• 12:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: You are part of the part of the problem.
• 12:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and whenever this debate comes up, I hear the arguments from, you know, folks on social media making their cases right in their blogs, doing their little videos.
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: and all of the argumentation that I hear against small groups, the reasonings that people will bring it up, I just, I can't help but think in my head, like you've won, like those are valid critiques, those are things that can happen within the local church through a small group, right?
• 13:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: But it brings to my mind, just like I want to ask a question, it doesn't sound like you've ever seen small groups done biblically and done with the intention that I think they should have that very often results in some really good and healthy things within your local church.
• 13:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: So some of the common,
• 13:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Some of the common things that I hear against small groups will be like, well, okay, it's not the small groups leaders, it's not their responsibility to disciple people in the church.
• 14:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's the pastor's job.
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Therefore, small groups are you surping the authority of the pastors.
• 14:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: that's one thing.
• 14:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Another objection I hear is small groups are basically just little churches in your church, and it breeds disunity.
• 14:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's another objection that I hear.
• 14:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: One objection that I hear is small groups don't do anything, anything beneficial for the church because it's just a social club.
• 14:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's another objection that I hear.
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot of objections
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: that come against small groups that, again, if those things are happening in your local church, yeah, absolutely, that's an issue, but I would argue Jack and then I can hand it over to you as our resident community leader, community group leaders, excuse me, excuse me, just a leader of the community.
• 14:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: That those issues are not, those issues are not because small groups are the problem.
• 14:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's because the small groups are being done incorrectly.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right.
• 15:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think some people, they're only context for small groups for community groups and local church has been negative and has resulted in negative things.
• 15:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: So therefore, I think they kind of jumped the shark a little bit and say, okay, therefore, all small groups must be the problem.
• 15:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: therefore we need to do away with small groups, right?
• 15:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think that's a healthy or beneficial way to go about talking about that kind of issue.
• 15:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Especially when we do not see in scripture a prohibition against small groups,
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And like, look, we don't see anything, anything, anything descriptive for small groups either, right?
• 15:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just like there are other things in maybe in the ways that we go about the Lord's Day service and the ways that that we order things, the way in which we will engage with a different parts of our liturgy might not necessarily have a descriptive verse that goes along with it.
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: But we do it because we believe it's beneficial and that it has biblical foundation, right?
• 16:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we already do that in our local churches.
• 16:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: But for some reason, small groups just seem to be kind of the boogie man for a lot of people and kind of the scapegoat that is used to write off a lot of
• 16:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think just unbiblical church practices.
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: But Jack, I want to throw it over to you, man.
• 16:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: You've been leading small groups for years.
• 16:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know this about you.
• 16:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've led, I think you've actually probably led more small groups than I have.
• 16:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've led a couple.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've obviously been a part of a lot.
• 16:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think if we were to tell him, I think you have been leading small groups, probably even longer than I have.
• 16:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, Jack, why are small groups bad and why are you wrong for doing them?
• 16:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this is like between two firms.
• 16:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, when Zach Alfinac is always like asked like the most like exactly.
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
• 17:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, I think the, I think the problem is is that a lot of what is said, what you just said, and like barely happens in my, in my community group.
• 17:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and that's primarily because our pastors,
• 17:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: uh meet with the community group leaders to go over structure of your community group and sometimes even our community groups don't even meet weekly.
• 17:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Mine's probably the maybe one of a couple in our local church that actually meets weekly.
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Probably most of them meet every other week.
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so, and even in the summer time, too, I think mine's probably the most consistent that meets unless a life events happening like us having a second kid.
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And usually that time is usually there to basically gather midweek.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: either do like a time of fellowship, whether that be a meal, or whether that be through specifically.
• 17:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we really have it.
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've really more structured it around the word and prayer versus around just a hangout time.
• 18:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so if we're talking about it's not being led or you're not being discipled by the pastors.
• 18:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, the pastors are giving us their
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sermon scripture that they're going to do for the next week and we go over that in our community group.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we look at the text and then we start to deep dive in on the text and ask and basically do inductive work on the text and ask questions and all of us are contributing to that.
• 18:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: So all of us are contributing to discipleship that's happening within our community group.
• 18:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Whether that's in a certain book that we're going through like we've just we're kind of pausing on the book of John This last Sunday was like our last sermon in John and then there'll be kind of more like summer sermon series to kind of take a break from John and then start the start looking back at
• 19:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: We just finished up chapter eight or nine and we'll jump back start in that in the fall.
• 19:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so really it's just like if I'm going to meet with my community group like hey what are we looking at as far as the text of scripture goes for this next sermon and then just start talking about that.
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we could do an informal way or an informal way, most of the time during the summer it's very informal because we're like meeting in a backyard and like having dinner and then maybe like throwing out what's been going on in our lives and talking about some winds and some stress points and stuff like that.
• 19:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then we'll kind of look at, hey, what do you guys think about this text
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: So there's a lot of stuff going on there and a lot of that is based there's
• 19:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: And here's what I hate too, like we most, if not all churches are trying to base their idea of community groups around like scripture.
• 20:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like us, we're trying to commit ourselves to a biblical principle.
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that biblical principle is found in Acts 2, where people were like Christians were meeting with each other every day of the week,
• 20:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: around the apostles teaching, okay, around that's a key word around the apostles teaching.
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: So when I gather with my community, we are technically gathering together and fellowshiping together around the Word of God and talking about that in one way or the other in our discussions and in our conversations and then also in a time of prayer as well too and bearing each other's burdens and stuff like that.
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: If that's guys, if that's not biblical, I don't know what Bible you're reading.
• 20:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like I just don't I don't get the I don't get the hate around that.
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I do get the Preferring one method over the other so a lot of I would say so I would I would say a lot of folks who would say that they are culturally Baptist
• 21:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: meaning that they grew up in the SBC and they've done things and SBC way will not have small groups.
• 21:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: They will have midweek services.
• 21:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I have no problems with that.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's the way that you do it.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: But just because you prefer that.
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: over me running a community group, which has been sanctioned by my pastors and elders, and we're gathering around the word of God, doesn't mean that it's anathema.
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, and I think that that's the key phrase right there is that it's been sanctioned by the elders.
• 21:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's been encouraged by them, right?
• 21:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's overseen by them.
• 21:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Look, look, if your church, if the small groups in your church are resulting in many churches being formed, little clicks that are
• 22:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a member of that church getting a little big for their bridges and utilizing that little bit of authority that that they have to cause issues and start influencing people.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that that that is an issue.
• 22:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: 100%.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: But that can happen with with or without small groups.
• 22:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: That to me is indicative of not an issue with a small group.
• 22:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: But an issue with the leadership, not understanding what small groups are.
• 22:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, it sounds like they don't really know what's going on in their own sheet pen.
• 22:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 22:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, we've got to make sure not to if like when those things happen, we have to put the blame in the correct spot don't just blame don't just take the easy scapegoat and blame small groups so that you don't have to address, you know, the wolves that are in your pen or your own inefficiencies and deficiencies as a leader.
• 22:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 22:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: So
• 22:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: definitely if those things are happening yeah maybe put a pause on your small group ministry until you can get the rains back because it sounds like you've sounds like you've lost it right that cart is driving and and and and and the elders don't have the rains right um
• 23:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I've seen it to wear small groups or community groups are done to where they look over.
• 23:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Here's the part where, and maybe this is only because Josh and I have been an x-29 Marshole Churches circles before, but a lot of the community groups that I remember being a part of in that time of my life, we only focused on the pastor's sermon about the text.
• 23:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: we never were able to go away from that and look forward and because I have been in some predicaments in previous churches that I was a part of where community group questions were pre-arty like pre-formatted and I did not agree with the sermon.
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: And neither did, and neither did about three other guys that were in my community group.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, yeah, why did you say that again?
• 24:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, oh, I'm not here to defend him right now.
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not here to defend our bastard right now because I don't know if I agree with that.
• 24:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: So there's a difference to between having a church culture where it's lock step.
• 24:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: and everybody has to be on the same page or having a culture of yes you have you're deferring to the elders and the pastors but they're not putting you in a predicament where you have to agree with them or not.
• 24:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: it's looking at the word, right?
• 24:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: And if you're focusing in on the word and what the word is meaning and hopefully you have a church that is going towards understanding the word from a exogetical set, preaching set versus an isogetical set, that makes all the difference because you're all on the same path, right?
• 25:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: To get to the understanding of the text versus just
• 25:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: as the questions based on my sermon.
• 25:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's getting at some narcissism, right?
• 25:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, and I think we should debate that in the context.
• 25:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a good point.
• 25:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Small groups do really badly in churches that practice eye-segesis, because what ends up happening is you have everyone's opinion being held as just as valid in that small group.
• 25:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Instead of, obviously, a scripture being our authority, but what are the beliefs and practices that we have agreed to as a church?
• 25:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right?
• 25:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 25:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: So for us, in our small groups, we are holding the, you know, individuals that will lead those, we're holding the theological standards first to the word of God and then secondary to the confessional standards that we have agreed to uphold his church.
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: So if you're out of step of either of those, that that's.
• 25:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's when we have an issue, right?
• 25:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not that we want to entertain, you know, questions or things like that, of course.
• 25:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, discussions are good, but you do need some sort of theological standard.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if it's just the pastor, if it's just his sermon, it's whatever he says on that Sunday morning.
• 26:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 26:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 26:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 26:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't.
• 26:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're, you're going to have issues, right?
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, so.
• 26:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, however you, however you form and structure your smulgar, whether it is a furthering of, you know, a further discussion of what was preached.
• 26:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that can be valuable.
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you have a separate curriculum.
• 26:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you're going through a different book of the Bible.
• 26:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you're going through some curriculum that, you know, like an R.C.
• 26:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: scroll video series or something like that.
• 26:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, let's throw it back, right?
• 26:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like way back.
• 26:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, those are awesome.
• 26:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right?
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: But you have to understand that one, like the purpose of a small group is further fellowship and discipleship in the Word of God.
• 26:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: But something that small groups also do really well at if they're done correctly, is it helps the pastors
• 27:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: keep a thumb on the pulse of the congregation to see where some of where some pressure points are that either need disabled, addressed, you know, all good small groups have a ministry of prayer within them, right?
• 27:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: We want to know, like, what are people praying for?
• 27:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: What's going on in their lives?
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: How can we be shepherding them, right?
• 27:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because often, you know, it.
• 27:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: you have, you know, more sheep than you do pastors, as is usually the case.
• 27:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: And small groups can be a very effective tool that's used to, you know, keep, uh, keep in the lives of your people.
• 27:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: But they're never done outside of the authority.
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: of the elders of their church.
• 27:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: You either have an elder that's there, or you have somebody that has been trained up and and and and and had managed by the elders to lead this thing, right?
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's a good thing.
• 27:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's where it's just I've always just kind of crazed when I hear people just blanket statement, you know, smokers are just bad for the church and they caused a vision like, I do it.
• 28:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't sound like you've seen them done well.
• 28:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: because I have and I've been part of small groups that have done very well and it's always centered on the word of God and has a great intention of bringing people in our local church closer together.
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's practical and it's theological both together.
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 28:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think they can be really effective if they're done correctly.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm honestly a fan of them.
• 28:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's kind of where I'm at.
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd be curious to have conversations with some of the individuals that really don't like them just to hear the experiences that they've had because, you know,
• 28:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like they've seen small groups blow up pretty, pretty wickedly, yeah, you know.
• 28:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Or if they really just want to focus, like I said, in on that, an a certain kind of conscience driven way in which their church culture has always been not
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: a community group led or doesn't have a culture of community groups but has a culture of like a midweek service.
• 29:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sure, that's fine.
• 29:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's fine.
• 29:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: If it does, if it does the job of bringing people together in fellowship and discipleship and under the word,
• 29:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: don't throw the baby out with the bath water for crying out loud you guys like just because like another church doesn't do it the same way you do doesn't mean that like I said there are anathema to this yes absolutely yeah but it's Twitter jack and it would not be Twitter if it was not calling everyone a heretic everyone's a Nazi everyone's a liberal over there no one no one's actually no one's actually balanced over there which is why I just try to I try to stay off it
• 30:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Jack, good discussion listeners.
• 30:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd love to hear your thoughts and your experience with small groups.
• 30:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Whether they were good or bad, who loved to hear kind of what small groups have looked like in your personal life as a Christian.
• 30:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe if your church does small groups, community groups, fellowship groups, whatever you guys call them.
• 30:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let us know how you structure those.
• 30:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let us know is it a continuation of the sermon?
• 30:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you guys do a curriculum?
• 30:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is it more strictly for fellowship?
• 30:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because I think those can be valuable too.
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: We have both of those in our church.
• 30:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, where, you know, that is the purpose of the group.
• 30:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think those are, I think those are wonderful.
• 30:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Those are really, really valuable.
• 30:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just so those, those, you know, the purpose of those groups are clearly defined.
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let us know in the comments.
• 30:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: We would love to hear your history with small groups and hear how you guys do it in your local church.
• 30:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I always, always love, you know, because sometimes you pick up some cool ideas, you know, and you kind of kind of bring those into your own context.
• 30:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's not, but it's, that's always fun.
• 30:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: So,
• 30:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Jack, my man, why don't you get us out of here and we'll go record some Patreon apps for our exclusive investors.
• 31:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
• 31:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, if you appreciate Josh and I as attempts at making the local church central to the believer's life, even when it comes to twitter controversies like
• 31:19
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• 31:21
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• 31:27
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• 31:34
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• 31:37
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• 31:43
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• 31:47
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• 32:00
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• 32:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: We actually got one the other days.
• 32:02
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• 32:06
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• 32:08
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• 32:09
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• 32:10
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• 32:11
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• 32:15
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• 32:16
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