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Mental Health Issues Have No Economic Bias with Brian Cuban · Authentic Living

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Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a global voice Radio.
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Join Roxanne Derhodge and her thought provoking conversations, the catalyst to live your life
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to the fullest.
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Hi, Ron.
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It's, Roxanne Derhodge again.
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Thank you so much for joining me with a living with Roxanne.
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Today, I have a very, very special guest, Mr.
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Brian Cuban.
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Brian, thanks so much for joining us today.
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For having me on, Roxanne.
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So I'm gonna, I'm gonna read a bit of your bio.
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Obviously, I often say that, the bio is kind of flat.
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But I want you to, if there's anything that you wanna add, to help, the listeners know who you
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are, that would be fantastic.
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So Brian's bio.
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He's a younger brother of, Mark Cuban he's an author, attorney and Addiction Recovery
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advocates.
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He's, he's authored several books shattered image, my triumph over body dysmorphia
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disorder, and the addicted lawyer, tale of the boo bar boos and low.
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Low and redemption.
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And redemption.
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I can't I have to look at that again.
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Are the unflinching examinations, how addictions, and other mental health issues
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impacted as profession in his life.
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You've spoken, numerous event times across, the US and obviously in Canada, and you or you're
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often on on media, which, is all over, YouTube.
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And, you're just sharing with me that, you're you're writing a new book, which is it, which
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is fantastic.
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So, Brian, thanks so much for joining me today.
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It's great to be with you
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to start the week.
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Awesome.
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Awesome.
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So, the the big event that's coming up is that, Brian has, graciously decided come up to
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Canada, to do his, very first, event in Toronto under, myself as the event, organizer, through
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my brand, the authentic connection movements, which is going to be on June 22nd.
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So we'll talk a little bit more about that, but, Brian, I'm gonna just, you know, obviously
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everybody, you know, knows your last name.
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They know your family.
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You're, you know, regardless of who I talked to with this event, people are aware that, of who
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you are, but tell us who, you know, obviously, you know, in reading the book and, meeting you
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before in St.
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Catherine's.
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Your, your, your journey has been a long, hard one, a, a best, and you're making a difference
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out there in, in the recovery world.
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But tell tell the students kinda your path and what got you to the point where you saw it.
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You know, it's time to share with the world and with the average person that struggles with
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these things.
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Sure.
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Well, I am in recovery.
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I am in long term recovery from cocaine addiction, alcohol addiction, I have been to a
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psychiatric facility twice.
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I deal with clinical depression.
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It has been quite a journey.
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I've been to jail.
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Your listeners are probably wondering, wow, and this guy's a lawyer.
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Yeah.
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I haven't had my license yanked, but it wasn't for a lack of trying.
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Right?
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But, It has been it has been a journey, and it has been a journey that has been one of self
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learning, one of recovery.
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I've been in recovery since April of 2007.
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Also from Bellemia, yes, guys do get eating disorders.
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Mhmm.
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I struggled with Bellemia for over 2 decades and body dysmorphic disorder.
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So that's kinda what has defined my journey.
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What has defined my recovery has been one abstinence from those things.
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I no longer binge and purge.
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I no longer do cocaine.
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I no longer drink.
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And now I go around the country sharing my story.
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And what's interesting is we talk about authenticity.
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Authenticity is perfect because without authenticity, you there's no recovery.
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There's another word for authenticity.
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It is vulnerability.
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Mhmm.
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And we need to be vulnerable to a achieve recovery.
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We need to be vulnerable in order to empower others to recover.
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And so instead of practicing live, decided to dedicate my life powering others to be
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vulnerable so they they can either find recovery or help others recover.
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You know, that's an interesting point.
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Right?
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Because I'm, one of my specialty as addictions and, and also eating disorders in my path as a
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as a as a psychotherapist.
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What happens though, the average person, think of it, Brian, with your, your, with your family
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life and kind of being in the spotlight with, being known, A lot of people perceive the, you
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know, the person struggling with addiction and mental health as being kinda the person that
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they can't relate to.
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They're not from the privileged families.
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You know, they're the person that they, you know, may not they may see them on the side of
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the street, maybe panhandling, potentially, but they don't see them as potentially someone that
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they can relate to.
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Can you talk a little bit more about that?
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Sure.
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Well, to to state a common phrase.
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Addiction does not discriminate by demographic, by social demographic, by income demographic.
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It I mean, there's people from all walks of life who are affected by addiction, whether
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it's alcohol, whether it's drugs.
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I'll give you an example.
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The first day I walked into 12 step, and, alcoholics anonymous anonymous is the most well
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known of the 12 step groups, although there are others.
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And I sat in the room of 12 staff, and I was comparing my stories to everyone in the room.
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I hadn't decided if I was a quote unquote alcoholic yet.
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And I'm listening to people without homes.
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I'm listening to high school students.
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I'm listening to college students.
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I'm listening to housewives.
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I'm listening to this wide demographic of people in there.
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And I'm my story's worse than that guy.
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My story is better than that woman.
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But in the end, I came to realize that while we all may have different journeys, bottled a
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mouth, needle to arm, cocaine to nose.
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It's all the same.
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It's all the same from everyone.
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It's all the same for all of us So, well, we all have different stories.
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We all come from different places in life.
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It is really the same process for all of us.
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And so I try not to get caught up in, well, this is my life.
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Yes.
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I've lived a privileged life.
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I I acknowledge that.
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But That privilege meant not when I was sitting in jail.
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Right.
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That privilege meant not when I was passed out in my room.
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You know, with drug from drugs and alcohol after a 2 day blackout.
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That privilege meant not when I was in a psychiatric facility.
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Mhmm.
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Mhmm.
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Of course.
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And, you know, I've, I've done public sector work for years in Canada all the way up to
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recently running a private facility, where, you know, was a a male facility for privileged you
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know, because there was a fee for service where, the revenue per month is, is a lot to be
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able to attend.
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And the one variable at the end of the day is that a lot of you know, people that end up, you
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know, with addictions, they may have, we call it co morbid, but they may have some issues
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potentially with anxiety and depression that they're trying to find a level spot.
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Right?
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They're they're like, they're like the average person.
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You know, most of us can have a bit of a dip daily, but most people don't wanna have that
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dip be so dramatic that it takes that much more to come back up.
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Absolutely.
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And and I get it on social media most often, especially when I talk about dealing with
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clinical depression, which I still deal with daily, it it is a it is they are often go
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together, but they can also be they can also stand alone.
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I deal with the daily and recovery.
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I get, what do you have to be depressed about?
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Your brother's a billionaire.
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Your brother's this.
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Your brother's that.
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Your sister that.
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Well, it doesn't work that way.
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Right.
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Other than where it didn't work that way for Robin Williams.
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It didn't work that way for this person.
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It didn't work that way for the lawyers I know who have taken their own lives for the people.
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I know who have taken their own lives.
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It just doesn't work like that.
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Depression does not discriminate.
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Addiction does not discriminate.
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Alcoholism does not discriminate.
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So I get that quite a bit, and there is a stereotype that is tough to fit through.
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And that is what is known as the stigma associated with these disorders.
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Right.
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Because, you know, with your background, you, you know, you should be able to will yourself
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out of it.
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The average person would think.
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And what peep a lot of people don't recognize is the the the depth of what happens with,
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clinical depression and how it's not, you know, I'm having a bit of a blue day.
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It's it's it's that deep entrenched thought patterns and, and those thought patterns relay
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into the emotion, and then it impacts change.
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When your, when your body feels so heavy and maybe you can share more, from, but from
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working with pea, a lot of people with depression, you know, it's talking about, it's
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so hard even just to be able to one foot in front of each other, much less get out of my
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pajamas and be able to, you know, take care of my kids this morning.
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Absolutely.
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There is what I call the normative state of what people go through.
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I talk about more of this in terms of body image, normative discontent, but it works with
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depression as well.
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The normative state of what people go to on a daily basis.
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There isn't anyone in the developed world who one day or another gets depressed, gets down.
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And, you know, I'm just having a bad day.
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I'm going through this.
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I'm going through that, and they get depressed.
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But they eventually come out of that.
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Mhmm.
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Whether on their own or with the help of friends or even maybe medication, they
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eventually come out of that.
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Right.
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Clinical depression is just brings you down and you do not come out of it.
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I have been in bed, unable to get out of bed, no matter what was going on in my life, no
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matter what good was going on in my life, no matter what bad was going on on in my life.
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I had been suicidal in sobriety.
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Be I went off my antidepressant medications.
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I became suicidal in sobriety I couldn't get out of bed.
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And I had all these great things going on around me.
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I was sober.
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I had I had a wonderful girlfriend.
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My family was trying to be supportive.
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It didn't matter.
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That is clinical depression.
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It did not matter.
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All I saw was a black hole that was this far in front of my face, and I couldn't see anything
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beyond that.
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And, I think, you know, that message in of itself, just that statement from you, you know,
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when you go out and speak, that must be powerful because, you know, with a lot of
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people I see behind closed doors, they share it with me and they say that average person does
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not get it.
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They say, you know, hey, we could all have a blue date.
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It'll pop out tomorrow.
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It'll be fine.
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You know, look around.
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You're you're living in Dallas.
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You're you're around your your great family.
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You've got this beautiful girlfriend, but that it takes so much more to be able to, to be able
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to live a lifestyle where you can kind of hit the normal based not just on medications, but
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what we know, and obviously you've been in recovery and worked on yourself in therapy, it
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takes so much more to develop the strategies
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I don't know what we're doing.
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And it
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it can't you can't take the eye off the prize at all because, again, then the, you know, the,
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you the depression is elusive, but it's always there.
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Absolutely.
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I tell people there were 2 parts to my recovery.
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1 was dealing with where I am that was getting sober That was get developing long term
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sobriety, stopping the drugs and the alcohol.
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But the part that was just as hard if not harder was dealing with how I got there,
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carrying back all the layers of my life to a little boy who did not love himself, who felt
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like he was not loved by anyone, who was clinically depressed dating back to the 19
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seventies.
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I was born in 1961.
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And in the 19 seventies, we didn't talk about depression.
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No.
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Depression was contagious.
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Right?
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We didn't talk about that.
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If you talked about it to someone, they might catch it from you.
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That's the way we viewed depression in the seventies.
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So you just kept it to yourself.
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And so I had to deal with that little boy who felt like no one understood.
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No one loved him.
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Who was bullied, who was even physically assaulted over his way to had a difficult
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relationship with his mom.
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No.
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I don't blame my mother for what I went through.
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Parents don't cause depression.
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Parents don't cause eating disorders.
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Parents don't cause addiction.
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There is a difference between cause and correlation.
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Right?
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Absolutely.
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We know that these relationships, parental relationships, however, can correlate with a
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lot of issues.
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They don't cause them.
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So I had to tear back all the layers in my life and start deal finally dealing with that little
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boy.
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Finally, allowing myself to be authentic, finally allowing myself to be vulnerable.
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And until I started dealing with that depressed little boy, My recovery really didn't start to
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take on the fullness and the completeness of that journey.
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And, you know, it's it's it's like you said, it's peeling back the layers of the onion.
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I I often say, and, you know, with with slipping or relapses, a lot of people struggle.
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Right?
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They try and And then they quits, and they they they hit a bump, and then they fall down again.
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And then, you know, and then they they're they're horrible on themselves because they
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think I failed again versus looking at is a is a setback?
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Like, what is it that I can learn from this to be able to apply to future, situations that
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would, you know, help this learning along
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That's right.
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And looking at what is driving me feeling and emotion that led to the relapse.
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Right.
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I talked to lawyers and law students and people in recovery in general who relapse and you
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asked them, not about the relapse.
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I talk to them.
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I say, what's going on in your family?
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How many brothers and sisters do you have?
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What what was your childhood like?
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Mhmm.
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And they look at me quizzically, well, why would I wanna talk about that?
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I need to get sober.
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That's right.
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You need to get we need to get we need to rebuild sobriety and start again, and that's
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okay.
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Relax has happened.
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But all of a sudden, I hear about people who have been from people who have been sexually
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abused, physically abused, terrible relationships as children bullied severely, and
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they've never dealt with these issues.
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They tell themselves I've They compartmentalize it.
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I don't need to deal with that.
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It's 30, 40 years ago.
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I'm over that because to deal with that is shaming in itself to them.
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People should be over these things.
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I say, no.
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No.
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You're carrying around a little boy or a little girl on this tire, on this chain.
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Over a gravel row.
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You're dragging it through light.
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We have to find a way to cut that chain and let that little boy or girl know that it's okay to
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get off that iron walk upright.
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That's hard for a lot of people.
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It was hard for me.
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I am still in therapy today.
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I've been in therapy 15 years.
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Constantly working on that little boy.
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Right.
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And now you talked a little bit about, the legal profession.
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So I, in my corporate consulting, I was an executive.
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I worked with all the lawyers across in Ontario, and they had a peer referral arm that
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I worked with in developing with the provider that was with.
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Now the pressures of law or or any high level C suite executive, I want you to focus a little
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bit about that because what we know is What I knew from dealing with the legal profession
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across North America is that a lot of times lawyers, their, their, their hours can be
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intense.
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If there are a partnership track.
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That's a whole other, element, where sometimes their hours can be brutally,
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Let's take a step back.
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Let's just talk about professions in general, whether it's doctors, lawyers, engineers, CEOs,
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when you go into something that tends to attract, quote, unquote type a personalities,
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driven personalities.
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What I've learned and what the studies at least in the US studies as it applied to lawyers,
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seem to indicate is that we also have a very, could have a very self destructive way of
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dealing with the stress that comes with that.
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We we may turn to the alcohol.
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We may turn to ways we have been socialized to deal with it.
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Maybe we've always taken a drink to deal it.
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Maybe we've smoked marijuana or we've done cocaine, and these things become more magnified
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when we go into a higher pressure.
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And we don't have the tools to deal with it in different ways, or we just isolate, or we just
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work harder.
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But we are not dealing with the stress.
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We are not dealing with the pressure.
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We may not have ever learned how to do that.
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Starting back in childcare.
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And these are kind of the things I see in the legal profession and with high stress driven
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personalities in general.
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We don't like to be vulnerable.
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Absolutely.
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So what it does is it's but people in those positions, they are hyph generally, high
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productivity individuals, if there are
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Let's let's let's talk about that.
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Let's talk about that because I like to tell people in the legal profession There is no such
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thing as a high high functioning and high performing are 2 different things.
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Mhmm.
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Okay.
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And there is really No such thing.
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You may be functioning.
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However, you define functioning, but there is no such thing as a high performing executive if
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they are dealing with drug alcohols untreated, drug and alcohol, depression untreated because
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what happens What I see is that we keep redefining our level of high performance.
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I call it the Peter principle of of recovery.
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Our level of performance keeps dropping and dropping and dropping, but we keep redefining
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our normal day to day to accommodate that so we can tell ourselves that we are high functioning
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in the Peter principle working up to the level of your incompetence.
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The level of incompetence keeps dropping, but we keep redefining what is normal to us.
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So we don't see it in our mind.
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The time the work expands to fit the time.
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We tell ourselves we are high functioning, high performing, but then it's just it may drop
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slightly.
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It may drop slightly, then all of a sudden it drops off the cliff.
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Mhmm.
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And other people may see it, but we don't see it because we can't step back from it.
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And the other people, and this is something that happens a lot in the legal profession,
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they may want to be saying, I'm gonna mind my own business unless they have a direct
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financial interest in it.
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We're just gonna mind our own business because we're not sure.
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Right.
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I'm not sure.
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So, of course, you know, so he then you have individuals at this level that they're, you
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know, they're reporting their there's certain financial obligations or, boards that they have
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to report to, a lot of big money individuals' responsibility And then they're not
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recognizing, like you said, they're deteriorating at a progressively high, rates.
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And then all of a sudden, Those are the individuals that I often say those are the
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people that end up on what we call short term and long term disability because those are
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individuals that may not recognize based on, like you said, the adjustment of expectations
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for performance, and they're visibly not they're they're compensating by doing whatever
19:52
to get through their stressors, but they're getting sicker and sicker, but not able to
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recognize it for themselves.
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So, so, you know, the thing is, when you talk to, to different companies, when you go out
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there or, or, CEOs or, or heads of HR, what kind of recommendations do you make to them?
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Well, first, I I say how can we empower our employees so that they seek to improve their
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life and find recovery at the high as possible level because even in HR, even in companies, we
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have this philosophy of rock bottom walk.
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I he can't get help until he hits the worst possible point.
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Right?
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Mhmm.
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No.
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No.
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We have to empower employees.
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We have to help them find wellness at the highest possible point, so they don't hit that.
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We don't want to allow our employees to wait for the consequences to catch up to the
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problem.
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And that's what people tend to do.
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They keep kicking the can down the road.
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I can work my way through this.
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I can think my way through this.
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I'll do this.
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I'll do that.
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And they try to deal with it on their own instead of allowing themselves to be vulnerable
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and reach out for help.
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So would I I'm talking about law firms because that's what I tend to deal with.
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So I I tell law firms, look.
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What what can we put in place that empower your employees to find recovery at the highest
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possible level to not wait for consequences to catch up to problems.
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And there are different strategies, and there are different things we can do, I encourage all
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law firms to have wellness committees Mhmm.
21:27
That meet twice a year where they are talking about what they are doing to empower their
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employees.
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I encouraged law firms to put in place, types of wellness activities, whether it's voluntary,
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you know, yoga programs or meditation programs or have places they can go.
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That doesn't mean you have to cut into the you know, they don't like to do that while we're
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cutting into the bottom line.
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We're cutting to the profits.
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Our lawyers need to bill bill bill.
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Well, your lawyers need to bill smart, and they need to work smart.
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Otherwise, in the end, if their health is overtaking all this, it is a degradation of the
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hourly rate is the degradation and the quality of work they are supposed to give.
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And in the end, you're losing money.
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And in the end, it becomes a risk management issue is your lawyer gonna commit malpractice,
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which can affect your firm from both a reputation and a, you know, current client
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standpoint.
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So how can we put in place policies and strategies to minimize the risk.
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You're never going to eliminate the risk, but to minimize the risk.
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And, you know, these are all fantastic things.
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Having worked with, you know, the upper losses, IT law, pro here in Canada, and also the pre
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referral, the trending analysis that we found with lawyers, then you'd re you'd re we would
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report it back, Brian.
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But, unfortunately, it's the it's all air you know, elements about this old profession and
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how do you make shifts because they would know what was happening.
23:00
They would know that they they had a certain left.
23:03
Their divorce rate was through the roof.
23:05
The addiction issues were through the roof.
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On those types of things, and they would know that the potholes, but this and they would say,
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yes, sure.
23:13
Sure.
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We're gonna apply it.
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So how do you when you must know when you go into a law firm or a different environment or a
23:19
different kind of sector, whether you're gonna your message is gonna be received or not?
23:23
Well, the message is in the United States.
23:27
We just recently had a study came out that was put out by the American Bar Association in the
23:31
Betty Ford Hazleton Clinic.
23:33
And it was a seminal study.
23:34
It came out a year ago, February that found that, 21% of all licensed attorney be
23:42
classified as problem drinkers.
23:44
21%.
23:46
If you're a licensed attorney under 10 years in a larger firm, it jumps up to over 30%.
23:53
1 in 3 licensed attorneys and big firms under 10 years of practice qualifies as a problem
24:00
drinker statistically.
24:02
That is a those are staggering statistics.
24:05
So here in the US, We have a baseline that has been established.
24:09
The American Bar Association is very much involved in getting this message, and there has
24:14
been a task force report So law firms are not closing their ears to it in this country.
24:20
And I've seen some stuff in in in your country as well in Canada on this issue.
24:24
Yes.
24:24
The law firms are not closing their ears to it.
24:26
So they are, for the most part, listening, but how do you break through the old guard?
24:32
Okay.
24:33
Who are used to having alcohol in their office, who are used to networking through alcohol
24:38
events, where it's just a where it is just part of profession.
24:42
That just takes time.
24:44
Changing a paradigm takes time, and the ABA is involved.
24:47
There are those of us who are advocates are involved in it.
24:50
It's just a little bit at a time.
24:51
One law firm at a time.
24:53
It's one lawyer at a time.
24:54
Absolutely.
24:55
Happen overnight.
24:56
Right.
24:57
Because prevention, I mean, mention is a lot more cost effective, than treatment, which we
25:02
know.
25:03
Right?
25:04
So, you
25:04
know, putting those strategies in place, you know, and, you know, so that people are can
25:09
recognize this.
25:10
I don't have to work those, you know, 16, 18 hour days or go home on the weekends a lot of,
25:16
what we saw was that the relationship rates were actually higher in, in, certain
25:21
professions of which law was one of them.
25:24
Because, again, if you're if you're working 16 to 18 hours a day, to get a on a track, a
25:29
partner track, what's happening to your family?
25:31
What's happening to it?
25:33
You know,
25:33
But you also have to remember that we are in a profession that works hard.
25:40
Mhmm.
25:41
People are going to work 16 to 18 hours a day.
25:44
There are going to be those times.
25:47
Law firms are to an extent gonna still encourage that.
25:50
Right.
25:50
But we also have to encourage balance.
25:53
Okay.
25:54
Mhmm.
25:54
Are you work doing that every day?
25:56
Mhmm.
25:57
Or is it situational?
25:58
Right.
25:59
Right.
25:59
So we have to be careful about that as well because we are in the business of providing a
26:04
service and sometimes providing that service requires X.
26:09
But shouldn't require X 7 days a week?
26:12
No.
26:13
Right.
26:13
And that is That is counterproductive.
26:16
That is destructive.
26:17
And it is destructive overall to the law firm bottom line as well because lawyers don't work
26:22
as smart.
26:22
They don't work as hard.
26:24
They get sick.
26:25
And so and it becomes a risk management issue as well.
26:29
Absolutely.
26:30
Absolutely.
26:31
Here in the US, we are taking strides to try to change that, but it it, like I said, to repeat
26:38
it, it is going to take time.
26:42
It is a it is a problem that has occurred as long as there have been, you know, that has
26:47
built up as long as there have been lawyers.
26:49
It's not gonna it's not gonna change overnight.
26:52
Anna, to your point, that that whole element of finding the balance, right, there are times
26:57
when there's certain points in the year or certain client expectations that you're gonna
27:01
have those longer hours, but it's finding the balance the other times to kind of mitigate
27:07
the, you know, the those super, super longs, quarters that you might have.
27:12
So I I'm I'm curious with,
27:14
I'll type I'll give you an I was talk I'm not obviously, I'm just gonna speak in
27:18
generalities.
27:19
Sure.
27:19
I was talking to this lawyer at this, Midwestern law firm.
27:23
They struggling.
27:28
He's he's he's worried about making partner and keep asking, how's How's everything going?
27:33
Well, fine.
27:35
Well, what what's going on your marriage?
27:37
Terrible.
27:38
Life's getting ready to leave me.
27:39
What's going on with their kids.
27:41
Terrible.
27:42
We don't talk.
27:43
Oh, but everything's fine.
27:45
Right?
27:45
Because everything's fine.
27:46
He's making his hours and doing his things at work.
27:49
While his personal life is imploding under him.
27:51
And eventually, that is going to implode his work.
27:57
And so it is all interconnected.
28:00
Mhmm.
28:01
And law firms as a cultural norm have not wanted to interconnect those things.
28:06
You have work.
28:07
You're not worried about your personal life.
28:09
That is changing.
28:11
That is changing.
28:12
And we know that's a reality.
28:13
Right?
28:14
Like, I mean, we bring ourselves to work.
28:16
So if, you know, if if I can kind of maintain a balance between home and work, I'm a better,
28:21
individual, whether I'm at home or whether I'm at work.
28:24
Now, I, I wanted to talk a little bit about you talked a little bit about your family and,
28:30
just, you know, obviously, having as a family therapist, I've worked a lot with families in,
28:34
you know, in with, when somebody's fully using and when they're in recovery.
28:39
Tell me, what are things like now with your family?
28:42
What was it like as you were going trying to get into recovery?
28:46
What was it like with your family?
28:48
Trying to get into recovery was difficult.
28:52
My first trip to a psychiatric facility here in Dallas came when I became suicidal and at the
29:00
urging of a friend who, thank goodness, did not mind his own business.
29:05
And let them know he's thought there was a problem.
29:07
My 2 brothers came into my house, and I had a 45 automatic on my nightstand.
29:12
There was drugs everywhere that were out alcohol everywhere, and they took me kicking
29:16
and screaming to my first trip to a psychiatric hospital.
29:19
They're trying to save my life, and I just wanted them to leave me alone.
29:22
Mhmm.
29:23
Mhmm.
29:23
And lead me to my own devices to end my life because I thought I was doing them a favor.
29:27
In my mind, I was unbelievable.
29:29
I was useless.
29:30
Coming off failed marriages.
29:32
I saw nothing, but that black hole when I looked in the mirror.
29:37
I saw this just thing that I hated this monster, and I wanted to get rid of this
29:41
monster.
29:42
And I would be doing my family a favor if I got rid of this monster.
29:46
People's people's, you know, that that was going through my mind when I decided to end my
29:52
life.
29:52
Mhmm.
29:53
Mhmm.
29:53
And so Fortunately, they came at the they came before that, and I didn't want their help.
30:00
I did not want their help.
30:01
So it was difficult.
30:03
Right.
30:04
And when they took me to that psychiatric facility, I remember thinking that they're I'm
30:13
not gonna let them commit me.
30:15
I'm not gonna let them do anything to me.
30:16
And being a lawyer, I knew what the things to say, So in in the US and Texas, they couldn't
30:22
do it because I wasn't a danger to myself.
30:24
I wasn't a danger to others.
30:25
I knew what to say to the doctor.
30:28
So they had to take me back home.
30:29
And the only thing I learned from that Roxanne was now it was time to distance from them
30:33
because now they know.
30:34
Right.
30:34
It wasn't about recovery.
30:36
It wasn't about Getting better.
30:38
It was about distancing because now my family knows.
30:41
At least my brothers know.
30:42
My father didn't know anything about this.
30:44
And at that time, I had a very still didn't have a great relationship with my mom.
30:47
Mhmm.
30:48
Over all the cross flame and the onset anger over our childhood that neither of us knew how
30:52
to dealt with.
30:53
We have dealt with that, and now we have a good relationship.
30:56
Great.
30:56
But so that was all I learned from that.
31:01
And so I went back out and now I'm distancing from them and the drugs and the alcohol.
31:07
And I lost my career as a lawyer.
31:10
Lost all my clients.
31:12
And the second time was in April of 2007 when I went for my second trip back when my girlfriend
31:20
at that time.
31:21
Now my wife, she stood by me, found me, passed out, after a multiple day drug and alcohol
31:28
induced blackout and took me back to that same psychiatric facility.
31:32
And that was then at that point that I really realized that I was going to lose my family
31:38
because families may love us unconditionally, but And we hope they do.
31:41
Right?
31:42
But there are going to be probably limits on their willingness to watch us destroy our lives
31:46
if we're not gonna at least try to take that 1st step in recovery.
31:50
Right.
31:50
Not not necessarily succeed because people relapse.
31:54
That's not always work the first time, but try.
31:57
Right.
31:58
And I did I didn't wanna
32:00
understanding that it takes it takes time.
32:02
Right?
32:03
It takes time to, you know, you can't just quit.
32:05
An officer you know, not have it replaced with something else.
32:08
And that's the that's the part that now okay.
32:11
I'm not gonna use this to deal with my feeling mad, glad, sad, all that stuff.
32:15
Now I have to learn how to live again without the substance in a way of grieving that space,
32:21
even though you know what was good for you.
32:24
Absolutely.
32:25
And there is a lot of grieving that space because, creating a void where the only thing I
32:33
knew in surviving day today were the people I did drugs with, the people I did cocaine with.
32:39
That quelling the depression with cocaine
32:42
Mhmm.
32:43
The
32:44
masking the depression with alcohol, which at that point, they both just made it worse.
32:49
Right.
32:49
I was chasing the high that was never gonna come again.
32:52
Mhmm.
32:53
And and, of course, alcohol and cocaine with anti depressants, the antidepressants don't
32:57
work.
32:57
Right?
32:58
Right.
32:58
Of course.
32:59
Of course.
32:59
So that really wasn't working out too well either.
33:02
And it was in that it was standing in that parking lot second trip where I realized that I
33:06
really did need my family.
33:07
I love my family.
33:08
I didn't wanna die.
33:10
Mhmm.
33:10
I realized there wouldn't be third trip back.
33:12
Why it was then and not when I had a 45 automatic on my nightstand?
33:16
I don't know.
33:17
Why everything came together at that point where I decided that I needed to take that
33:22
first step.
33:24
I can't tell you, but it did.
33:26
And it was at that point where I realized that I had to take that first scariest health step,
33:32
terrifying step, and to be unknown of recovery or I would be alone forever in my mind, and I
33:40
would probably find another weapon.
33:44
And I wanted to live, Roxanne.
33:45
I wanted to live.
33:46
And I I realized in that parking lot that I wanted just one day of my life.
33:53
Just one day that I love myself, that I looked in the mirror, and I love myself.
33:58
Just one day, I had not had a day like that in ever in my memory.
34:03
In fact, the teens, I had not had a day where I looked at my reflection and loved what I saw.
34:09
Mhmm.
34:10
And I wanted just one day, and if trying one day to stay sober.
34:15
Gave me that.
34:16
It was worth it to me.
34:18
Right.
34:19
And it takes a lot of hard work, right, to because once you've done it, now you gotta you
34:24
go into therapy to understand, you know, maybe you don't wanna know all the whys, But now it's
34:29
like, how do I, you know, you know, what happened?
34:32
Like, why did I start to think like that?
34:34
Like, why did I, you know, why did I want to to hurt myself where, you know, those obsessive
34:39
statements that I'm good and not good enough, I'm, I'm worthless.
34:42
All those, you know, you know, downing, thoughts that kept drowning you.
34:47
At some point, you had to work through therapy to be able to no.
34:50
It's not just putting the substance.
34:51
No.
34:51
It's liking Brian again.
34:53
That's where those markets.
34:55
Absolutely.
34:55
And it and it's good that you bring that up because here's what happened.
34:59
The next day and this was April 8 2007.
35:03
I walked into my psychiatrist office, who I've been lying to for a couple of years.
35:07
I've been seeing them in lying and just getting my antidepressant meds, which were course,
35:12
weren't working because I was drinking and doing cocaine, which I didn't tell him.
35:15
Mhmm.
35:16
I was just we were talking about failed marriages.
35:18
And why would you lie to your psychiatrist?
35:20
Well, shame those no hourly rate.
35:21
Right?
35:23
That's for sure.
35:24
I was ashamed.
35:25
I was ashamed.
35:26
And so it was easier just to lie and tell myself that I was doing the right thing.
35:30
Mhmm.
35:31
So I finally started getting honest with him and talking to him about things.
35:34
I didn't tell him that I was bulimic because I was still too ashamed as a male with bulimia,
35:40
to talk about that.
35:41
I thought even in my forties, I thought I was the only guy going through that.
35:44
Mhmm.
35:45
And he pointed out that we had a lot of things to get to And he said, but we have to get you
35:51
sober first.
35:53
Right?
35:53
We can start exploring all these other issues until you get sober.
35:59
Wanting me to go to residential treatment.
36:01
I refused.
36:02
I was much too important to go to residential treatment, right, or no lawyers in residential
36:06
treatment.
36:07
I'm an important lawyer.
36:09
And so even though I had no clients left, my ego was way up there.
36:13
And I finally agreed to go to 12 step.
36:16
Mhmm.
36:16
And that was the beginning, but 12 step is about getting sober.
36:20
Right.
36:20
Step is not with dealing with how you got there.
36:23
12 is dealing with where you are stringing together some variety.
36:26
Right.
36:26
Right.
36:27
Or whatever you do, whatever your method is, I'm not pitching 12 step.
36:30
That was just my method.
36:31
Yes.
36:32
And so there was a lot of therapy, finally, a lot of physical therapy, a lot of soul
36:40
searching.
36:41
Wanna carry back the just the brutal layers in my life to heal that little boy and let him
36:48
know he was loved.
36:50
Acceptance and commitment therapy, cognitive behavioral
36:53
Yes.
36:54
Right.
36:54
Right.
36:54
Role claims therapy.
36:56
Mhmm.
36:56
Talk to my little boy, talking to my mother.
37:00
I'm very lucky, Roxanne, because my mother was willing to, I will say, insert herself into my
37:06
recovery and explain how she was raised.
37:10
There was a lot of fat shaming in my household.
37:12
My mom used to call me a fat pig and this and that.
37:15
And these were the things her mother said to her.
37:17
And these were the things Right.
37:18
Grandmother said to my grandmother, fat shaming, and families is often handed down
37:23
generationally.
37:24
Mhmm.
37:30
The tool she was given with by in her verbally abusive relationship with her bipolar mother,
37:37
back in the sixties seventies.
37:39
And when I understood all that, I really was able to find a place for all that and forgive
37:43
her and let go of the anger and our relationship began to improve.
37:47
But all of the genesis of that started with my therapy.
37:52
Absolutely.
37:53
And, you know, and and family is so important and you're, you know, you're, you're, you're so
37:58
keen in saying that.
37:59
Right?
37:59
They love you, but then after a while, it becomes how do I watch this push and self
38:03
destruct?
38:04
It's it's it's killing me on a profound level.
38:07
And from, you know, as a family therapist, when I work with families, that's what we see.
38:11
Family want to they love the person, but they can't see the person disrupt and and and and
38:17
slowly kind of basically kill themselves right in front of the family.
38:21
But once someone steps into recovery, it takes even a more powerful system to be able to
38:26
support the individual to say, okay, we're gonna learn to trust you again, but you've
38:31
gotta gain that trustworthiness within yourself.
38:34
So concurrently, you work together to really kind of, you know, you know, get together again
38:39
to kind of formulate how will we now, as a family, gonna be able to, you know, go on and
38:44
and start to have some kind of functioning again.
38:47
Absolutely.
38:48
And that leads into where I am today.
38:51
My girlfriend back then who was with me for that second time to the psychiatric facility
38:57
coming into She had gone away for the weekend.
39:00
Easter weekend 2007 came home, and there was drugs everywhere, alcohol everywhere.
39:03
I'd had a block a blackout.
39:06
She stood by me.
39:07
Mhmm.
39:08
Mhmm.
39:08
I would have left.
39:09
I would have left.
39:10
She stood by me.
39:11
Right.
39:11
And she stood by me.
39:13
Well, I rebuilt the broken trust.
39:15
Mhmm.
39:15
Well, I found recovery.
39:16
I couldn't do it for her.
39:18
I couldn't do it for my parents because even in recovery, tragedy happens sadness happens.
39:24
Life happens.
39:25
You have to be able to withstand all of that, not to relapse.
39:28
So I have to do it to me.
39:29
For me, I didn't know she was gonna stay long term.
39:32
It couldn't be for her.
39:34
Right.
39:34
Right.
39:34
And so not all relationships will survive this, but they can survive this.
39:40
But for me, personally, I know looking back that mine survived because I did it for me, and
39:46
I did it for my long term health.
39:48
I couldn't do it for my family.
39:50
I couldn't do it for her.
39:51
Even though the initial motivation may have been for family Right.
39:55
I wanted to show my family.
39:56
This whatever the initial motivation is, whether it's fear, shame.
40:00
Whatever.
40:00
Whatever gets you to that first step.
40:02
That's great.
40:03
But in the end, it has to be for me.
40:07
And it has to be for my life fulfillment.
40:11
And in doing that, the family sees The family starts to trust again eventually.
40:17
The family starts to interact again eventually.
40:19
I start interacting.
40:20
All of a sudden, I'm back with nieces and nephews.
40:23
All of a sudden, I'm back.
40:25
Right.
40:25
You know, hanging with my brothers, hanging with my dad.
40:28
And all of these things come together as one of the gifts of recovery, but it took work.
40:34
It takes a lot of work, doesn't it?
40:36
You have to, you know, and it I often say that I, you know, it takes a lot of work, but all
40:42
the energy that was going to the substance And if you take that energy and then put it towards
40:47
recovery, it's a powerful thing.
40:49
When you start to see the individuals start to trust themselves again, to make a different
40:54
choice.
40:54
And then the family says, we've always loved you.
40:57
We we we we need just need a few to demonstrate even incremental steps that you're willing to
41:02
do certain things.
41:03
Whereas before, you would have taken off on a run, now you're like saying, you know, I I
41:07
almost I thought about it, I'm I'm craving, but I need to talk to someone or I need to be able
41:13
to sit with someone.
41:14
Absolutely.
41:14
And my wife's supportive.
41:16
My brothers are supportive.
41:17
Mhmm.
41:18
I mean, everyone's everyone is supportive.
41:20
They have seen the worst, and now they are very gratified to see me what I've been able to do
41:25
in sobriety.
41:27
Right.
41:27
And what I've done with my life and sobriety in terms of, you know, going from a profession of
41:32
thinkers, lawyers, I still have my license.
41:34
I I I deserve to lose it, but I could go back Roxanne well.
41:38
I don't want to.
41:38
I'd I've gone from a profession of thinkers to a profession of helpers, helping other people
41:44
try to find what I found.
41:46
But when they get, like, what against
41:49
Yes.
41:49
In the prospect
41:50
of their own existence.
41:51
Right.
41:51
It
41:51
doesn't have to be exactly what I had found.
41:54
But finding it within the context of their own existence.
41:57
What a gift you're giving back, you know, to sharing this message, right, to having been
42:02
through it and you know, I'm sure people listening are struck like I am, you know, just
42:08
hearing your words and, and obviously, the pain that you went through.
42:12
I mean, I often say when a baby comes in this world, Brian, he's not thinking about he's he's
42:17
completely happy and fulfilled, generally, And then life starts to kind of take away that
42:22
brightness based on so many variables.
42:25
And then before you know it, it could be in a It could be depression.
42:29
It could be lots of different things.
42:30
But as human beings, we all have feelings, right?
42:33
And we want we want to be validated and we want to be admired and we wanna be loved.
42:39
Everyone wants to be, everyone wants to be accepted, whether you're eight years old,
42:44
fifteen years old, or fifty seven years old, Everyone wants love and acceptance.
42:48
Now we view that in different ways based on where we are in our life.
42:51
Mhmm.
42:52
But that is a biological need a psychological need that starts from ground 0 and goes with us
43:00
through our through our lives.
43:01
And how that drives us is what is different for each person.
43:07
Absolutely.
43:07
The need for love and acceptance can be as powerful motivator to destructive behaviors
43:13
Mhmm.
43:13
As a drug itself.
43:16
Absolutely.
43:17
We have to find a place for it.
43:19
We have to find balance, and it the need for 11 acceptance cannot define me.
43:26
Well said.
43:27
Well said.
43:28
Now I I'm excited that you're coming, to to join us in Canada on June 22nd.
43:34
So for anyone listening, we will provide links, to the event.
43:40
But Brian, I'm I'm so grateful that you took this time with us today.
43:45
So for any companies that are out there or leaders that are looking, to have speaking
43:49
events to have you come, or for anybody looking for copies of your book, can you direct them
43:53
where they can get ahold of it?
43:55
Absolutely.
43:57
The addictive lawyer tales of the bar's bruised blown redemption is available on Amazon and
44:02
just Google the addictive lawyer, and that's the one that's gonna come up.
44:05
Right.
44:06
Go to Amazon.
44:07
My website is www.briancuban.com.
44:11
You can go.
44:11
I have a a tab of all the places I've spoken.
44:15
And how you can get a hold of me if you're interested in having me speak.
44:18
And, plus, my blog is there.
44:20
I've logged on these issues.
44:22
And so It's a fairly well read blog.
44:25
You can go and read, what I have to say on these different issues.
44:28
And come out and meet him on the 22nd.
44:30
Because Yes.
44:31
And come out and meet me on the 22nd.
44:33
I'll I'll tell some.
44:33
I love to come to Canada.
44:35
I've met Roxanne before when I spoke in St.
44:37
Catherine's the Canadian customs doesn't seem to like me.
44:40
They always they always give me a hard time, but I'll tell a funny story story about that
44:45
when I when I speak.
44:46
But, but I always make it through.
44:49
Okay.
44:49
Awesome.
44:49
Well, we'll we'll try to say, if he's coming through it, just make sure you're nice to him
44:53
because you're
44:54
Oh, yes.
44:54
I am.
44:54
I I look it's funny, but, I tell a funny story about that one.
44:59
Awesome.
45:00
Brian, thanks again.
45:01
So for, my listeners, If we've heard anything today, it's about, being real.
45:08
And, that first step into making any change, is tough, but, we're all looking for the same
45:15
things, like Ryan said earlier, we're all looking to be connected and loved.
45:19
And, you know, what I'm hoping is that you can come out on the 22nd and, meet Brian, get a
45:26
copy of his book and, you know, here's some of the additional wisdom that he's gonna share
45:30
with us.
45:31
So thanks again for listening to authentic, living with Roxanne, and, we'll chat with you
45:38
soon.