Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 921: Southern Deer Hunting and Backwoods University with Lake Pickle

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Ep. 921: Southern Deer Hunting and Backwoods University with Lake Pickle · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the whitetail Woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by Lake Pickle to discuss Southern
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: deer hunting, summer deer prep, and the fascinating stories of
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: wildlife conservation that inspired his new podcast with Meat Eater
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Backwoods University. All right, welcome back to the Wired to
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light. This week
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: on the show is that just mentioned We are joined
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: by my buddy, Lake Pickle. He not only has one
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: of the best names that I've heard, but he is
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: also a tremendous storyteller, podcaster, hunter, representative of the Southern
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Hunting and Fishing community, employee of on X, and the
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: host of the latest podcast with the mediator network, Backwoods University.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: And so today on the show, we do a couple
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: of things. We discuss his new podcast. We discuss how
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: he became fascinated with wildlife, wildlife conservation, and the stories
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: of the people who are who are studying animals and
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: studying ways that we can keep them around and preserving
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: our hunting opportunities and traditions. We discuss that, We talk
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: a little bit about his background as a Southern deer hunter,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: his experience. I didn't mention this at the top, but
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: I should have. He has filmed and worked with the
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Primos hunting crew for many years as well, so he
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: has like this really interesting background and following around diehard
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: deer hunters like Will Primos or Brad Ferris. And in
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: this podcast we discuss a little bit of what makes
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Southern deer hunting culture unique, what makes the way you
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: need to hunt in the South unique, whether that be
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, hunting around people that are baiting
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: or hunting in big woods country. So we talk tactics,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: We talk about summer deer prep, you know, doing camera work,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: velvet scouting, all that kind of stuff, and much much more.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: So today you've got a varied show. We're talking deer,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: we're talking wildlife, we're talking conservation, and we're doing it
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: with a very fun, very informative, great guest, mister Pickle.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: And I just want to say very quickly before we
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: get to that if you are listening to this in
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: real time when this podcast just dropped, which is well,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: I'm recording this on June thirtieth, this podcast will drop.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: I believe it will be July third. If you are listening,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: then you are hopefully very well aware of the public
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: land sale that was proposed within the Senate Reconciliation Bill.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: We've been talking about a ton on social media. You
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: hopefully listen to the podcast Me and Kal that we
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: dropped last week as a bonus. But as you probably saw,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: that sale was removed from the bill. So the mandatory
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: sale of over a million acres of public lands was
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: taken out of the bill. That is great news. Each
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: and every one of you who made a phone call
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: or sent an email, or informed your friends and family,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: or posted about it, or sent letters, whatever it was,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: if you were involved in this campaign to stop the
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: sale of public lands, I want to thank you from
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: the bottom of my heart. Thank you for your actions,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: for your words, for the time you spent and invested
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: in standing up for our public places and wildlife and
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: our opportunities to hunt and fish and get out there.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: It's so important and I'm encouraged by the impact we had.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: The rallying of the hunting and fishing and larger outdoor
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: community in opposition to this was phenomenal. This was an
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: unbelievable kind of coalescens of different kinds of people all saying, hey,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: mister politician, we are not going to stand for this.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: We care about our public lands. This is as American
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: as it gets. In Our lives in many ways revolve
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: around these places. Get out of here, keep your hands
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: off our public lands. And our voices were heard. So
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: our voices matter, our advocacy matters, and we can make
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: a difference. So I want to remind people to things.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Number One, don't ever forget this in the future. Your
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: voice does matter. We can make a difference. It is
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: worth engaging on these things. It's worth paying attention to
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: these things. And number two, that's very important to remember
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: because this isn't the end. This is not the last
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: proposed sale that we're going to see someday down the road.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: If you read my book That Wild Country, or if
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: you've listened to past podcasts I've done about this, you
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: know we were talking about this back in twenty fourteen,
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Back in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. We talked
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: about it earlier this year. For decades and decades, you know.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: In my research for my book, what stood out was
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: that for as long as we have had public lands,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: people have been trying to dispose of them, transfer them,
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: sell them, cut them down, drill them up, dig them up,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: whatever it is to extract dollars from them. They have
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: been trying for not ten years, not twenty, not fifty,
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: not eighty one hundred plus years. They have been trying this.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: So don't for a second think that they are not
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: going to continue trying this in the future. There are
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: a whole bunch of things being proposed in this bill
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: that maybe by the time you're listening to this has
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: already passed. There are other things in that bill that
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: are downright destructive to many of our public lands. And
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: outside of just that bill, things that were originally included
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: in the bill but had to get pulled out for
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: varying reasons. That stuff still being pushed by politicians today,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: things like putting in the mine on the edge of
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: the Boundary waters, putting in a road through one of
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: the last unroaded places in the wild of Alaska, things
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: like in the coastal plaine of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: where Cal and I just visited this unbelievable, still intact,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: still truly wild ecosystem. They want to turn that into
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: an industrial center too. There's so many examples I can't
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: even list them all. Right now, we're gonna have to
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: keep engaging. We're gonna have to keep staying up to
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: date in this stuff. This was not like a blip
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: on the radar. This is just kind of the way
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: it's gonna be. If you care about hunting, if you
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: care about fishing, if you care about your public lands,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: We're needed. You're needed. This is how we make sure
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: that these things are still around for our kids and
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: their kids, and selfishly for us, hopefully in the next
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: twenty thirty, forty fifty years, however long I'm around, I
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: sure hope that I can return to these wild places
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: that I've experienced and still see them in a wild
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: and intact state. Still bill a hunt there, still bill
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: a fish there. And that's on us, because if we
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: don't stand up for these places, certainly nobody else will.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: It's the folks that are out there, seeing them, feeling them,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: experiencing them, hunting on them, fishing on them, camping on them.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: We're the only ones who really get it, So how
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: can we expect anyone else to stand up if we
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: are not willing to. So that is it for me.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I appreciate everything each and every one of you did.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Let's keep the momentum. Let's keep on cranking on this stuff.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Let's keep our public lands and wildlife and wild places
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: around for the future. And with that little monologue out
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: of the way, appreciate you being here. Let's get to
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: my chat with lake Pickle. All right, joining me now
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: on the line is mister lake Pickle. Welcome to show.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: Lake Man, happy to be here, Thanks for having me.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, it's my pleasure. I am very excited not
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: only to be chatting with you, but to be chatting
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: with you as a official meat eater contributor. I don't
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: know if i'd call you like a colleague, but be
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: least a contributor, right, I mean, already officially in the
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: meat of your family now, So welcome.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: I man, it's one of those things like I never
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: thought contributor, cut whatever whatever title you want to bestow
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: on it, it's not one that I pictured myself having
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: but I'm happy to have it. So yeah, just I'm
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: excited about everything about everything tied to that. It's been
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: a fun time.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: I bet, well, it's It's been fun to watch your
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: stuff from Afar, you know, seeing you're involvement with Primos
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: and then your Guys' podcast and then stuff you don't
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: with on X and then when I've heard that you were,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: you know, bumping around with Clay and Brent more often.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: That was great to see. And then, as I just
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: told you off air, I actually sometime this winter was
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: talking to my boss and like, hey, you know, I
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: really want to do a podcast that's more about you know,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: just wildlife issues and people and stuff like that. And
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: he's like, man, that's a great idea. But you know
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Lake Pickle, right, he's already doing that podcast for us.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh man, it's a smart guy. He
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: keep beat me to the punch. So so yeah, I'm
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: stoked for it, very excited for what you got in
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: store for us with Backwoods University. How are you feeling
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: about stuff so far? The first couple episodes are out.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Does it feel real yet?
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: Are you?
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Are you excited that it's out there? I know it
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: could be like a tense moment when your baby metaphorically
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: goes out into the world for the first time.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: Dude, I was obviously to answer one of those questions
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: like I can answer one of them very simply. You
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: asked if I was like excited that it was out there.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: I'm stoked that it's out there, because it was like this,
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: this this process of like kind of concepting and figuring
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: out because honestly, like I can't fully take credit, like
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: I didn't come out the Gate and go I'm gonna
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: do a podcast about wildlife and how human we as
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: humans interact with them and influence them. It came out
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: the Gate is just like a wildlife biology focused podcast,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: and the human side of it didn't really come into play.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: And I kind of got into the weeds of really
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: starting to build some episodes, and I went to Clay.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: I was like, Clay, there's not a single wildlife species
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: or wildlife process or anything that I can talk to
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: or talk about where you have to mention us like
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: we as humans, like we're a huge influence in all
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: of it, And it could go either way, like a lot.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: That's the interesting part because a lot of times when
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: you hear human influence on wildlife. It's associated with the
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: negative and that does happen, obviously, but there's some episodes
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: that will come out where we've had a overwhelmingly positive effect.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: But it's been really fascinating. But yeah, the day that
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: episode one came out, I don't think i'd ever been
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: more I don't nervous, isn't the word, Just like, I
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: don't know, it's just tense, you know, like there's just
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: a lot of I'd never put so much work into
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: a single podcast, and it was just kind of I guess, like, man,
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: I hope people like it. That was just that's just
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: what I was hop But I hope people liked it,
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: and I hope that it translated that it was you know,
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: people were understanding what I was trying to get across. Thankfully,
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: I had a really busy day that day. I wasn't
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: able to just sit there and twitter my belt the
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: other one.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Scroll on Instagram for comments.
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, just yeah, nod on drywall. But yeah, yeah,
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: I'm psyched that it's out. Yeah.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: So, so for folks who haven't heard yet, can you
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: give us like the one minute cliff notes on what
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: the theme and direction of this show is sure.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: So so what we say is backwards University focuses on wildlife,
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: wild places and people who dedicate their lives to conserving both,
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: and that's really what we do. Like, the first episode
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: that came out was like kind of an overarching view
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: on bison, and when you first hear that, you're like, oh, bison,
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: you know, I kind of cliche honestly, but it's like,
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: but bison in the Eastern United States, bison in the
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: Eastern Unit of States don't get talked about a lot man.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: And what was funny is I was kind of like
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: just I had a large amount of time to do
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: these first couple episodes just because we were trying to
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: figure everything out, and so I was kicking around ideas,
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: and I was kicking around this bison idea, and I
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: was like, is this as like a unknown of a
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: topic as I think it is? And I would be
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: talking to friends of mine from around here that are
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: outdoorsmen and at hunt Fish that care a lot about
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: conservation history, and I would point blank some of them,
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: I'd go, hey, did you know that we had bison
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: here in Mississippi? And they'd be like, are you serious.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, yeah, we did, and the more I
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: bumped around and asked folks that and talked about it,
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: I was like, Yeah, this absolutely needs to be talked about.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: But human influence is pretty hefty on that one, as
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: you can imagine. And the most recent one, the one
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: that came out yesterday, Bob White Quail, that was spurred
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: off of a personal interest of mine. I got into
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: up and bird hunting probably six or seven years ago now,
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: and my mom dug up this picture of my grandfather
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: quail hunting on the piece of family ground that I
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: grew up deer hunting on that is almost void of
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: quail now, and it kicks you down this line of thought.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: You're like, well, wait a minute, Like all these stories
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: of these guys and English pointers and limits of quil
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: every day and that's just what they did, and now
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: they're like this foregone almost afterthought of an animal, and
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: you're like, well, what would happened?
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: I asked the question, and so that's kind of what
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: we've been doing, is like you take a look at
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: an animal or a person. There's one coming up in
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: a couple of weeks about the first wildlife biologist in
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: Mississippi who is a woman named Fanny Cook who's in
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: pretty incredible, but just trying to get a deeper understanding
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: on wildlife, what they need and then how we influence
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: them and how we can influence them going forward.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: So you grew up, does I understand it like a
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: lot of them hunting, fishing, playing the outdoors, doing all
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: this stuff. When and how did you transition to being
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: interested in this next kind of level of understanding, Like
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: or asked another way, why is this set of topics
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: and issues that this podcast is framed around. Why is
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: that of interest to you? How did this come about
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: for you?
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: Man? That's a good question. I it kind of like again,
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: I didn't orchestrate it, you know, like because I mean
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: when I was a kid growing up hunting, I was
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: much like any other kid that was in the hunting
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: I you know, like if something, if my dad would
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: have let me shoot you over the limit of something,
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: I probably would have done right, because I just didn't
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: know any better, you know what I mean, Like you
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: just don't. You don't think that way, or I didn't.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: At least you just are told, hey, you stop at
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: fifteen doves or you know whatever, and that's just what
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: you know. But as you get older, I'll tell you
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: what a lot of what had to do with it was.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: I was a wildlife science student at Mississippi State University
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: and I got in some classes there, like one of
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: the I remember one of the classes was basically I
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: can't remember the name of the class, but it was
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: basically teaching like a like how concert wildlife, conservation, and
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: agriculture systems could coincide with one another. And that was
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: the first time i'd heard of like some like CRP
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: type programs and conservation programs and first and like it
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: kind of like trend, you know, pushed my thinking further.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: And that was the first like I remember that professor
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: telling us like, well, the reason that they came in
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: came up with CP thirty three is because all the
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: fenceros were gone and that was having a terrible effect
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: on upland birds. And that's the first time I heard
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: about some sort of link to why we didn't have
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: quill anymore. And I'm like, whoa, you know, I mean,
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: it just and it just kicked me down this whole
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: lot of thought. And then obviously when I went to
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: primos man, I mean, there's a lot of things I
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: could be I got a lot to be thankful for, man,
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: But if anything poured gasoline on that fire, it's the
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: amount of time I got to spend spend around Will Primos,
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: because like, one of the first times I met Will
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: was at a farm that he used to have in
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: Mississippi Delta called Rivers Run, And one of the first
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: things he did was I got in a truck with
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: him and he rode me around his farm and he
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: was like, that's where we got warm season native grasses planted,
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: and that's where we got this planet and this, and
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: we got this for a corridor for the deer. And
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, like you my wheels are just spinning. I
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: was like twenty one, you know, but that extra and
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: you know, and then him explaining like, hey, where we've
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: got these warm these native grasses planted. This wasn't Roe crop,
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: but we put it back in native grasses and now
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: quill can live there. And you're You're like, what you know?
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: I mean just and so those just influences like that
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: over time just really started to peak my interest. And
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: then I guess it just kind of compounded over time.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can relate to that too. That that
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: sounds pretty similar to my story, it's you start out
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: with this just hey, I love this activity. I love
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: these places, these critters doing this stuff. It's fun. And
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: then at some point there's all all of a sudden,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: this like aha moment where you realize like, oh, there's
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: a reason why we have this thing or don't have
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: this thing. Well, there's a reason why we have this
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: place or or don't have these places like we used to.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: You know, there's there's versions of either type. Right, there's
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: stories on both sides of that coin. And then for
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: a lot of folks, and then sends you down a
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: whole bunch of winding rabbit holes as you start chasing
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: those questions. Right, So, how many episodes do you have
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: in the can so far? Can't tell me that?
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: Four? Well, okay, five?
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: All right? So yeah five. And so you've got Bob Weight,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: You've got Buffalo, you've got a wildlife biology. So you've
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: got a breadth of topics. I'm curious, if you were
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: to zoom out so far, given the topics you've explored,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: is there any overarching similarities or themes that you've already
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: kind of pulled out from this experience so far that
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: are standing out in your mind.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it is, uh, the probably the most abstract one,
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: but also like the most like powerful one. I think
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: is you cannot love what you don't understand. And that's,
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: like I said, that sounds big and broad, but it's true,
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: the one about the wildlife biologists. Man, and you're a
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: white tail guy, so you'll appreciate this. Mississippi has a yeah,
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: and other states might be like this as well. I've
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: just looked this one introspectively because I'm you know, I'm
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: I live here from from here, but we have a
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: very very complex and complicated history with our wildlife and
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: our natural resources. So right now we have our white
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: tailed deer population is a little bit over one point
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: five million in the state. And it's not I mean
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: and to the point, like our Missipi Department of Wildlife
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: is literally imploring licensed hunters to shoot more deer, not
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: go over their limits. But like it's like I think
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: it's like, uh, it's like five dos and three bucks
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: or something a year, which is very like a pretty
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: good bag limit. But they're like the average hunter is
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: shooting between like one and two a year, you know,
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: like please shoot more, Like we've got.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Too many sounds like you're deal in Michigan too.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so in in nineteen twenty nine, Yeah, in nineteen
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: twenty nine, Aldo Leopold made a trip down to Mississippi
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: to do kind of a survey of the natural resources
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: because at the time we didn't have a game in
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: fish department, we had no infrastructure. And it was estimated
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: in nineteen twenty nine, that's almost one hundred years ago,
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: not quite twelve hundred deer was the estamate crazy, insane
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: and it was not you know, and that's what I
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: mean when I say you can't love what you don't understand.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: It was not like we weren't no one set out going,
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: you know what, We're gonna wipe these out, you know,
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: or like there was no mal intent. Really there was.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: There was a great depression. People were trying to feed
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: their family. There was market hunting, there was sport hunting
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: back then, just an over exertion of it. And one
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: of the coolest things in that Leopold report, and then
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: the follow up with what Mss Vandy Cook did the
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: first biologist, is they notated clearly they were like, if
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: wildlife is going to succeed in this state, we have
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: to form a partnership with Sportsman. That's they and and
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: so like the first people that they paired up with
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: were private landowners that were like in serious concern because
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: they were like, we don't want to lose this and that.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: At the time, you know, it's it's easy to look,
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: you know, now we have so much information at our
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: fingertips and like deer management and habitat, we have all
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: this stuff. Back then, no one knew, no one, no
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: one knew, but there was a there was a yearning
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: for it. There was a yearning for understanding. And that's
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: that's what saved the wildlife of my home state.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. And it's a it's such a a common
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: story for so many states too. For for so many years,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: we thought that these critters were limitless. We thought there
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: was no way that we could possibly send them to
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: an oblivion and then kim as a shock when all
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: of a sudden they started truly disappearing. But yeah, man,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: we figured it out the last moment, and thank goodness. Right, Yeah, So,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I just wrapped up a book on this same set
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: of topics. It's basically exploring the past and future of
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: fish and wildlife in America. So I've studied a whole
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: lot of this similar stuff and have been like deep
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: in the weeds, and I've had this like pendulum swinging experience.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: And I'm curious if you have had the same thing
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: as you've dove into this world. So the more I
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: learn about our history with wildlife and fish here in
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: the United States and really where things are going now,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: I sometimes kind of fly to one side. And if
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: you can imagine the pendulum swinging far to one side
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: in which I'm really discouraged. You hear about just the
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: way we've trashed these resources or wildlife populations in the past,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: where you see how many different things are struggling right now,
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: how many species are in decline, how many wild places
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: we're losing, how many you know, if there's an endless
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: list of depressing statistics, if you want to find the
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: stuff when it comes to just the decline in wildlife
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: abundance and so many other things. So if you go
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: down that path, it can become very discouraging. And I
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: found myself swinging that way in the pendulum sometimes on
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: the flip side. Though, as you study this history and
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: as you study what people are doing today, you also
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: though come across so many stories of inspiring individuals or
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: projects or efforts in which we have saved species or
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: saved places, or you know, people have done heroic things
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: to protect our wildlife resources, or incredible new studies being done,
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: or projects that are going to help this critter or
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: that critter, or this place or this water source. There's
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: so many examples of people doing good work and good progress,
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: and so I also find myself very inspired. You know,
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: if you look, if you look back, you know, to
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: some of the things you're talking about, you know, you
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: late eighteenth or eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds, we basically
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: wiped everything out almost but the last we got our
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: act together and a handful of you know, motivated people
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: that really cared about this stuff stepped up and changed
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: the way we think about these things and we saved them.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: So in some ways, that's very inspiring that our predecessors,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: you know, figure this out and got us back to
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: the point that we are now, which is pretty darn
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: good compared to one hundred some years ago. So when
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: you consider that, it can be very encouraging. Those are
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: the two worlds I find myself like flipping between all
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: the time. These days. Does any of that resonate with you?
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Where have you found yourself?
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: So, man, I actually had this conversation probably with more
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: people than wanted to hear me talk about it, just
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: like buddies at home. But when I was in the
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: midst of researching some of this stuff, I even said,
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: I think I was talking about Buddy Jordan, But I said, man,
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: I have spent I don't know how much time, you know,
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: driving down the road or whatever, just burning when time.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: And I'm sitting there thinking like, should I be mad
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: about this because you look at it, I mean like it,
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: because you know it's one of those things hindsight twenty twenty, right,
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: and if you look at it like like sure and
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: through this perspective, you're like, yeah, we should be thankful
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: for what was saved. But man, those guys screwed up
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: a whole lot.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: And then it dawned on me one day, I was like,
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: what in the world is me deciding to be mad
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: about that? What positive result is that gonna yield? Like nothing, none, whatsoever.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: Now it's worth looking at that and making note of
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: what went wrong, so you know, we make sure to
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: not do the same thing. But again, and especially like learning.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: That's so literally all of it virtually came from a
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: lack of understanding. And so yeah, that that resonates with
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: me a lot, man, because, like, for instance, one of
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: the episodes I have coming up is conservation history of
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: black bears here in Mississippi. A lot of these, a
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: lot of these early episodes are stuff that's just like
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: really close to home with me. We had, like, black
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: bears are native animal here. They were almost wiped out,
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: but they were never fully wiped out. They were never
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: functionally extinct here in Mississippi. At one point, I think
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: the lowest number was like twelve, so bad low. Yeah,
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: the past few years they've made and they've made a
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: natural expansion. They've they've been protected. You can't shoot them obviously,
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: but they're they're not a hunting season or anything, and
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: they've just been slowly naturally expanding. And they're a very
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: controversial animal now because if you if you go to
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: the root of it, the reason they're controversial people don't
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: understand them. That's been there's been enough generations occur where
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: we don't have bears that people don't understand them and
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: they don't know how to live with them, and so again,
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: if I were to approach that, and so in the
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: Black Bear program, the head biologists of of that program
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: is a very good friend of mine. I've actually it's
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: been awesome. I've been able to go and do a
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: lot of bear projects with them and have my hands
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: on lave bears, which is incredible. That looks good walking
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: through him with that stuff, and like just seeing just
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: like the from the eye level, from the ground level,
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: like just the level of controversy and the questions and stuff.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: And it's like if you go if you went into
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: that with that angry mentality, you know, because there are
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: some people that are like, we should exterminate these things
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: while we have the chance. And if you go into
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: that mad, you're not gonna get anywhere. But if you
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: go into that with like a no, no, no, man, you
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: don't understand, let me let me explain this animal to you.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: Let me like you know, cause again we I've researched this.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: If you can go back from records of of Mississippi
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: in the eighteen hundred and nineteen hundreds, and bear was
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: a more highly regarded meat animal than a white tail was.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: It's not fun, you know.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: And so that's the way to approach it, or the
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: way that I've decided to approach it, is like you
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: just you have to approach it that way or you're
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: just gonna yield more bad results, like explain, you know,
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: try to understand the animal and the habitat and and
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: focus more on the people in the in our world
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: that you know you talked about that have done heroic
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: things to save wildlife.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: What's your sense? I had kind of a similar conversation
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: to this, or at least around like a broadly similar
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: topic with a guy named Dan Flores. You know Dan.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: He's he's also got a podcast for us, He's written
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: to rendus book on a similar topic, and and so
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: I was speaking with him about this same topic. And
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: he has this unbelievable deep knowledge of the long, deep
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: history of you know, our continent and what's gone on
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: with wildlife. But I think when you when you talk
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: to someone like that, they have you know, he has
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: seen this through the context of of a different generation
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: than you and I, right, And I guess I'm just
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: as someone who you know, similar age to me, hangs
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: out with a similar circle. What's your read on like us?
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Like what we're on? Like our generation? And our understanding
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: of this stuff and and where we are at with
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: this because I think you know someone who's who's I
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: guess I don't know what I'm trying to say here, like,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: but but maybe you're getting the general thing I'm flinging
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: at you. Really you talked about how like understanding this
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: stuff matters, and how shifting our our perspective on these
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: issues and also maybe shifting from being just like a
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: consumer to being more of like a advocate or at least,
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: you know, being able to you know, work with these things.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: I guess that's something I'm feeling a little bit more
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: with Like our generation is like it's not as common
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: now for people to just be like I just want
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: to shoot stuff. It's it's I think it's becoming a
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: little more common like yes I like to hunt, or
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: yes I like to fish. And with that comes you
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: know a little bit of this, a little bit of that.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Is that something that you are seeing too or is
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: there anything else that you're kind of sensing when it
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: comes to you know, this next generation of hunters and
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: anglers and hopefully conservationists. I'm horrible asking questions today, Like sorry,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: that was a real roundabout way of getting to something to.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: You, I think I smell what you're stepping in. So
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: I think looking at yeah, like kind of the our
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: demographic right that particular age range or whatever. And you
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: could go younger too. If I were to go with
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: the negative, first I'll go negative, then I'll go positive.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: The negative I would say, is we live in such
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: a dense information era that sometimes that can yield two
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: not so good results. One, I think it can be
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: taken for granted. Two Well, and let me I mean
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: by it can be taken for granted, is I think
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: you like no one wants to go to find some
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: of these records I've been telling you about a stuff
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: that was going on in Mississippi in the eighteen hundreds. I
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: had to I had to do more than type it
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: into Google and see what popped up on the AI results. Yeah,
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Like it's it's it's becoming
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: like information is so easy that it's like why would
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: I take another step? You know, I got I got
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: my quick answer right there. That's problem number one. Problem
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: number two is like it's real easy to get the
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: wrong information. Like there's a lot of like you could
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: go and get. You can get caught in your own
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: echo chamber if you want to, like, you can google
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: until you find the answer you want to find, you
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: know what I mean. But on the positive side of that, well, man,
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: I remember talking to Will Primos and Brad Ferris about
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: it about like content in like this newer in like
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: this current time, and they were like, man, back in
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: the time where they were making VHS is premost truth
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: about hunting VHS is They're like, if we even tried
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: to put in a segment about the NWTF and Turkey research,
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: like no one wanted to watch it. They were like,
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: it would be clear that like people didn't really care
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: about watching this kind of stuff. Whereas now, like I'm
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: sure you've heard it too. When I go if I
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: interview biologists about something, some of them will go on
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: and on. They're like, people just it's it's so encouraging
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: people care to know about this now and that like that,
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: Like I said, I went negative first. I think the
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: positives heavily outweigh the negatives, because it is, dude, this
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: podcast that I'm doing, you know, where we were looking
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: at this stuff. If if what you're asking about, if
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: that wasn't true, I don't think this podcast would ever
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: even been entertained to be an idea, because it would
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: be like, why would they care?
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, good point, you know what I mean. It's interesting.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: So I think I think, yeah, I think people have
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: a more well let's go, not not to derail the conversation,
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: but like the current public lands issue, Thank god, I
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: haven't heard anybody say, man, we just can't get hunters
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: to call about this stuff, you know what I mean.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: Everyone's been like this is great. Everyone's come together and
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: they're calling an email and so so yeah, I think
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: I think there is more of a sense of wanting
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: to understand and caring about the resource, and that's that
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: can only yield good things.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: So, you know, as far as you've gone so far
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: into this world, you know, you mentioned earlier that you
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: said that, you know, one of the things that stood
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: out is maybe like a consistent thing was the fact
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: that you know, you can't fight for or advocate what
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: you don't understand. But what about like a a lesson
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: or a takeaway or like an action item Like I mean,
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: you've looked at, you know, what happened to Buffalo, you
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: looked at what's been going on with Black Bears, you've
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: looked at you know, quail, You've looked at deer, and
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: what's going on in Mississippi a little bit. Is there
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: anything as far as like moving forward that we as
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: hunters and anglers can be thinking about or trying to
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: do a better job of or we're digging into more
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: if we want to make sure that things are trending
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: up rather than down. You've got to study a handful
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: of these stories now, and I'm just curious if there's
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: any like action or priorities that we as individuals can
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: be keeping in mind so far.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So like the there's actually, like the Quail
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: was a topic that I did, Like I said, this
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: other episode came out, but I did two episodes on it,
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: like the next one, and it's kind of it's you know,
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: centric on Quail, but it's focused on kind of what
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: you're talking about. It's like, all right, I understand that
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: we used to have a lot of Quail, and I
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: can wrap my head around why they were diminished so much.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: But episode two is like what's the future of them?
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: Like what can we do? And one of the biggest
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: things is like just taking some ownership, you know, like
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: like understanding that that is a resource that has to
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: be managed. And that sounds cliche, but like in that
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: in that other episode where it's focused on the future
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: of quail, like I interviewed some people that they're fam
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: like one of the guys, man, he's such fun, he's
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: such a fun guy to talk to. He's in his
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: eighties now and he had quail like it's it's this
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: land has been in his family since he was a kid,
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: and he watched the quail get diminished and it just
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: broke his heart because you know, he cared about quail
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: hunting like you care about Whittahun and that dude made
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: it his personal mission to establish quail back on his place. Now,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: not to he never had any restocked or anything like that.
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: It was just he got with some biologists, he got
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: with some people that knew what they were doing, and
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: they were like, we've got to fix this place. And
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: they did all the habitat work and continue to the
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: habitat work. And it's a bit of a it's it's
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: a it's an anomaly of a story in some ways
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: because now he's done so well with it and spread
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: the progress out between his neighbors and got them all
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: with the same program, because you know, who would have
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: thought when he starts doing all this awesome habitat work
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: for quill he started how you know, guess what else
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: went up? His turkey quality is deer quality? Did you
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: should see like some of that place, like with the
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: with the wildflowers on it and just like it looks
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: like something out of a time machine. But uh yeah,
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: just taking ownership, man, like, not being passive about it
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: and not going, well, that's what we've got a department
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: of wildlife for, you know, that's what the that's what
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: the biologists do again. The wildlife thrive when and I
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: don't mean this arrogantly, it's just like history shows it
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: in the in the world that we live in today.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: Why would I thrive when humans want them to thrive?
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: And that I mean it's pretty much as simple as that,
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: and there's so much proof there. But like so yeah,
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: like as far as going forward, it's taken ownership and
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: you're like, don't sit there and go man, I wish
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: the turkey population in whatever state you live in was
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: was doing better. Okay, what can you do about it? Like,
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: what can you do as as an individual? You know
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: what I mean?
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a great point, and it's and we
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: we have a huge opportunity in that way. And I've
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: talked about this on so many episodes in the last
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: couple of years, but you know, hunters manage nearly four
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: hundred million acres of land across the nation. That's almost
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: as big as our entire federal public land estates. So
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: when you look at the swath of land that we
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: have influence over, it's real. I mean, so yeah, we
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: don't need to wait for anybody. We can tackle a
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: lot of the stuff ourselves. I mean, that's such a
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: huge thing, such a huge thing. So I love that
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: that's something that the Ears are going to be exploring
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: in that Quail episode. And it's so funny, like so
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: many of us, at least you know, in my circles,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: we come to this first through white tails, right, because
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: so many of us love white tail deer. That's you know,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: that's America's critter. They're everywhere, and you might get a
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: lease or own some land or have access to something.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: And through that, though, you then have this opportunity to
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: then help all these other critters that aren't doing as well.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: And and like you mentioned, you do some good stuff
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: for quail or for grouse or for pollinators or whatever.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: It is almost always it's gonna be great for your
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: deer too, So you're gonna get win wins across the board.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: It just takes a little bit extra time just to
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: kind of think through what you're doing. But the super
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: rewarding to see that kind of thing.
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, man, And we're actually like there's one it's not
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: done yet. I haven't even made the first interview, but
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: there's there's a couple episodes that I'm lying I'm working
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: online and up the interviews for. But they're going to
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: highlight people that have done just that. Like there's like
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: I said, I probably shouldn't say too much about it yet,
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: but like one of them is a landowner that the
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: land has been in their family for it literally hundreds
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: of years, and their farm, their property is again I
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: keep saying the word like a time machine or a
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: time capsule, because it is. But do they have done
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: so much work on it and and it and it
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: is work these days to maintain at the level they
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: have to to where it's just man, just the attention
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: they've paid, like the attention they have paid to native
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: habitat and consistent prescribe fire, and just I could go
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: on and on and on, but do the ripple effect
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: that places like that have not from just like people
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: coming out there and seeing their place, and so there's
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: we'll start spending walkin do on my place, the ripple
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: effect on how they're affecting their neighboring properties in a
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: positive way. And to your point, like the further you
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: go east, the further public land there is, right, Mississippi's
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: like ninety four percent private or something like that, And
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: so much of our Department of Wildlife Management strategy is
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: the name towards like well, I'll give you an example
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: that I think it was last spring. They had a
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: game Bird Weekend and what they did it was a
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: open to the public. It didn't matter if you owned
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: ten acres or ten thousand acres. It was there was
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: a I think it was like thirty bucks and you
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: got fed, breakfast and launch for two days. You had
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: you had seminars where you could do Q and A
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: with different biologists, habitat managers. There was prescribe burning, there
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: was native plants, there was trees, there was everything imagine.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: And then we went out and did a prescribed fire.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: We did some hands on type stuff and it was
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: completely it was completely geared towards like the dude who
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: owns thirty five acres and is wanting to know, well,
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: what in the world can I do? You know? And
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: and and that's the way like that, that's the way forward.
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so cool. Uh so so with uh with
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: white tails? You know, perfect segue here with white tails
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: on the mind, what you know, other than chasing around
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: all these new podcast stories and burning the burning the
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: tires off your truck traveling these places, what's your white
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: tail world look like? Uh? This summer? Do you have
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: time to do much prep yet? Or or is all
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: this keeping you out of the white tail woods.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: A little bit? It's definitely definitely out of it a
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: little bit. Uh. The other part of it is is
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: like it's so miserably hot right now. If you wanted
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: to do anything, I will say, and I'm not you
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: unique in this way. I find myself doing some white
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: tail scouting while I'm out turkey hunting, and literally the
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: last day of turkey season, the last day of turkey
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: season down here is May first, and I always hunt
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: May the first because once the last day of Turkey
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: season two. It's the day my grandmother passed away a
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: few years ago, and so I always I just I
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: go out on that day. It doesn't matter what the
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: weather is, doesn't matter, I just go. And I went
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: to a place on public around here that I had
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: not been to in a long time. And I was
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: walking in there. It was late in the morning. I
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: was just kind of cruising and anyway, there was a
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: place and this is all in public. Some of the
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: timber had been logged, and had been logged for a
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: little while. So there was this giant thicket and to
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: see you have this big thicket right here, and I'm
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: walking the edge of this thicket and I'm like, man,
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: I'm already thinking. I'm like, man, I wonder the de
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: You're gonna be bedding nothing here now, you know. And
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: walk a little bit further, a little bit further, and
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: there's like and I'm you know, like I said, I
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: hadn't been to this spot in a while, but I'd
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: hunted this area of this forest for quite a while.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: And I was far enough back in there that like
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: I already knew. I was like, man, not a whole
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: lot of folks would would come back in here and
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: I come up and there's like there's like four big
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: white oak trees like thirty yards off of this thicket.
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: And I was like, yep, marking that before before I
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: left that spot, Like I was like, I'm gonna have
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: a camera and here the closer we get, the seasoned,
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: and I already found a tree that I could get
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: in and like it. I mean, man, early October, when
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: I get a when I if I can get a
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: north or an east wind, that's where I'm gonna be.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: That's where i'd me.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: So is summer scouting not as much of a thing
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: down by you because of the miserable, humid, hot weather,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: or do you guys folks like still get out like
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: velvet scouting? Is that a thing down by you? Like
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: by me? You know it come July a lot of
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: evenings you're out sitting on the edge of a beanfield glassing,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: you know, late July into August. Is that just a
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: crazy thing to do by you because.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: Of the weather, not not because of the weather. If
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: you live in the Mississippi Delta, you're probably doing some
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: of that just because there's not as much like just
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: not near as much row crop like the our roa
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: crop down here and in the other parts of the
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: state is is La Blay pine trees. Honestly, like there's
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: there's just not a whole lot of like places where
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: you could go and just like glass deer and so
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: the closer it gets, like, I know some folks in
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: the Delta that they'll spend some time doing some velvet
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: scouting because that out there, you you actually would, it'd
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: be worth your time to do it. But like around
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: here central like I would, I don't do much velvet
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: stuff but r on cameras for sure, but not not
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: a whole lot of velvet stuff unless should go down there.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, So what's the summer camera program in your neck
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: of the woods?
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: H dude, I'm like, what do most now? I don't
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: do it. I don't. Baiting is legal down here. That's
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: about ninety five percent of what the camera running consists of.
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: And that's that's just a fact. Like I said, it's
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: it's legal. I I have done it before, I make
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: no bones about it now. I'm not just not a
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: big fan of it for a for a whole swath reasons,
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: but uh, that's what that's the way most of it
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: has done these days, and if not that, it's usually
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: like a mineral rock or something like that. If I
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: was to go run some cameras, I probably would. Well, man,
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: I normally don't even start touching them until you know,
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: late September.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: So if you were going to try to get some
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: summer pictures without bait, is there anyone who's doing it
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: in a way where you can get some decent pictures
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: despite not having that big attracting because that, like you know,
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: I remember early. I mean, it's always a challenge to
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: get pictures in the summer without the easy option of
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: a trophy rock or bait or something. Yeah, it's a
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: little bit easier if you've got row crops. It's gotta
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: be really tough without any of those options.
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, man, I'm just being honestly. I don't even
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: know if I've ever even tried to be to be
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: totally honest. And now, I mean, that's that's interesting because
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: now my wheels are spinning them. If someone was like,
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: you must try to get some good pictures, I'm like,
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: what would I do? But I could figure something out,
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: but I don't know. Yeah, I've never I don't think
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: i've ever really done it, and it's always like an yeah,
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: like a trophy rock or something like that.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man, those are deadly effective in the summer, that's
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: for sure. I Mean I'm not a baiting guy myself,
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: but I you know, I did like it back in
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: the day when I could put a trophy rock out
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: there over a camera in the summer and you certainly
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: pictures rolled in.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: Can't argue with that, dude. Well, like when I was
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: when I was growing up, like if you heard of
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: somebody at home getting caught hunting over corn or something,
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: it was like they were like a social pariah. It
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: was like and you'd be like, wow, we do that. Well,
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: now like it's it's completely legal. So and right when
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: it was legalized, it was like are you kidding me?
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: Why wouldn't we do this? And so, you know, I
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: mean I used it for a while and then I
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: just kind of was like, eh, like I said, whole
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: list of reasons, but personally I don't care to do
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: it anymore. I don't knock anyone that does. I just
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: don't have you phoned down by.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: You know, in places like that where there's so much
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: of it, are the guys who are like were guys
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: and girls who are killing like the big Bucks mature bucks.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Are they even doing that on bait or are they
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: having to kind of play off of it and shift
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: it around and or is other people's baiting impacting people's
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: ability to do that too?
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: But well yes, so the answer to the second one
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: first is other people's baiting impacting people one hundred percent,
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: like one hundred percent and so and like it's it's
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: a very man it's such a nuanced and complex issue.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: I have friends, several friends who don't really care to bait.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: They just don't. And they have places that they put
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: a lot of time into, you know, working on the
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: habitat trail, like like really trying to make the place better.
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: And they and this is a like this is anecdotal,
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: but this happens a lot. Like I'm thinking of one
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: particular friend had a place who's working on and as
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: a friend and like his a neighboring property that's like
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: forty acres. Nothing is done on that forty acres in
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: terms of habitat, but they put a corn feeder out
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: there and let it spind. And now like that dude's
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: you know, pulling deer off, like directly benefiting from his
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: habitat and deer, I mean, because they're gonna go to
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, they're gonna go to that corn feeder man,
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: they just are. And so he was like in this
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: in this position, just like conflicted. He was like, I
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: don't know what to do. I don't want to bait,
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: but like the deer just getting suctioned off of my property,
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: you know. So I say, I refer to bating a
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: lot of times as this self perpetuating thing, because that's
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: the mentality like, well, if I had all my neighbor's
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: going to and then I'm not going to have any deer.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: And to some degree that's true. Unfortunately, the upside of it,
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: like I said that if there is a positive of it,
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: like it there are a lot of people, let enjoy
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: doing it to each their own, but there are like
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: people are killing some really big deer doing it like
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: that's I can't argue with that fact at all, Like
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: people are killing some really big deer that way.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: So one thing with like with the baiting programs and
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: or you know, cameras, there's always this question of you know,
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: are you educating deer? Like these are tools that supposed
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: we can help you, but Also if you're in there
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: messing around with things, or you've got sell cameras doing
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: their thing, there's always done these questions about are you
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: also doing more harm than good with this human influence,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: whether that's you know, messing around with cameras or messing
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: around out your feet or whatever it is. I gotta
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: believe you've seen a bunch of different instances with this,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: whether it be on your own stuff or you know,
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: rolling around with the premost crew. I mean, you've seen
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: a lot. Where's your head at on on kind of
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: that balance because I'm always trying to balance this, especially
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: with me for the cameras, it is the big one.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: But but what have you seen over the years.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: Well, it's it's a similar thing, like to your point,
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: like with with cameras, right, It's like before the cellular
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: trail camera, if you wanted to run a trail camera,
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: you had to walk out there, you had to track
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: all the way up through there, leave your scent all
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: over the place. You know, you could go through all
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: the all the precautions you wanted to, you're still leaving
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: some sort of scent. You just are, you know, And
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: then cellular trailcap cameras happened, and that that was that
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: was very I mean that was a significant change because
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: that's just like a huge portion of human influence and
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: pressure on the woods just eliminated. So it was the
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: same same thing, you know, like when people figured out
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: feeders that you could put on a timer and set
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: to spend a certain amount of days. Because like in Mississippi,
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: like I said, it's legal, but you can't just go
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: and dump it on the ground. It has to be
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: like the laws, like it has to be in a
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: covered trough or a like a spin cast type feeder.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: And I mean I've seen it several times. I got
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: buddies that deal with it. And it's not like you
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: can't you can't like bet on it. But there are
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: certain mature deer that they they figure that out man
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: like and and I will like some people will tell you,
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: they'll like, man, you want to make a buck go nocturnal,
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: start feeding them like they they they fit. Now, like
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: I said, that is not one hundred percent whatsoever. But
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: some of those five six year old bucks like yeah,
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: like they'll come to your bait at nine o'clock at night.
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: And so that that definitely does happen. And some of
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: the folks that that are killing them, now, uh what
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: they've what I the most probably popular tactic is, uh,
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: it's some sort of bay. Typically, like even if it
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: isn't a trial feeder, they will they will put a
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: like just a huge amount of feed where they don't
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: have to go back there for a while, and then
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: they pop a cellular trail camera up and so it's
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: basically the same premise, like the food's there, but there's
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: not a human going in and out of there, and
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: they got that cellular trail camera popping and the set.
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: Some of them, I know some guys that are like
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: the second daylights one time he's in there, you know
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: he's in there hunting them, or some some of them
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: like I got to see him daylight twice before I
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: risk putting some pressure in there. But that that's typically
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: how it goes. There's there's still a like a very
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: important element of like limiting human interaction or human pressure
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: on the woods.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: So like, how the heck are you killing deer if
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: you don't have two hundred pounds of corn out there?
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: And I sell cam telling you when they show up
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: for the first.
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: Time, well, well let me let me, let me give
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: a like an honest representation on myself, Like I don't
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: try to present myself as some awesome deer killer one
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: thing that because honestly, man, and this is like I have.
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: Let me let me be clear, I have. I have
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: something against baiting. I don't care for it. Trail cameras.
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: Have nothing against trail cameras, but I rarely use them anymore.
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: And I'll be completely honest with you why in recent years,
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: because when I was doing stuff with Primos, we did
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: so much with product development. It was just like non
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: stop trail camera stuff to where like I remember, like
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: I never wanted to be One time we were going
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: to hunt somewhere and I was like, had this complete
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: notion of we're wasting our time. And the reason I
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: felt that way is because the way the trail cameras
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: are running. And it hit me. I was like, man,
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: there's no way to be, you know. And so the
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: past couple of years, I either like on Public, like
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: where I was telling you about where I found those
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: white up trees, I'm gonna put a trail camera there
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: just because I'm curious what's coming in there. But the
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: past few years, like between Public and a place that
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: me and my buddy have access to We have access
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: to about twelve under acre track, which is nice one
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: because it's twelve hundred acres of course, right, but two
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: with a with a property that big, you actually can
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: you can't have some deer that that that property is
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: big enough, you can have some deer and have them
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: not be influenced by you know, a feed that's going
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: on on the perimeters, right. Uh. And so that's what
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: that's what we've been doing, is like just going in
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: there and men and just just go honestly, man, just
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: going in there and hunting, you know, just to go
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: on like old school and it man, like going there,
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: finding sign and just trying it out, seeing what happens
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: and just putting it together. And like sometimes it works,
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: sometimes it doesn't. But I've I've really enjoyed it.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: But yeah, what's like, uh, I mean, kind of going
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: back to one of the things I just said there ago,
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: you've been able to have this wide exposure I think
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: to a lot of different ways of doing stuff, right,
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: I gotta believe with with the crew you've rolled with
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: and getting to hang out with folks like will or
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: Brad and you know, so many others you've learned from
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: some of the best, no doubt, right, Yeah, what What's
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: what have been those major things you've taken from those
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: folks you've learned from, like the major you know, like
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: if there was like a stone tablet and will roll
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: down like the five most important things to be a
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: successful deer hunter where or something like that, or Brad
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: or whoever it was, do a handful of things stand
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: out that you've been able to take from these legends
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: over the years that you're still putting into play now
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: yourself when you're doing it on your own.
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: Mm hm. Honestly, it would be if especially if I'm
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: just talking about like deer hunt. Uh one thing I
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: learned it, and I learned it in like fairly early,
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: like in the first three years of being there, like
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: because I remember the first year I can waiting for
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: me to like catch them doing this like huge thing
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: and me go, oh, that's the thing that makes them
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: so good at this, you know, and there honestly, there wasn't.
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: There wasn't some like huge thing that they were doing
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: differently and like this. If this sounds cliche, I forgive me,
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: but it's like it's true, and I can give some
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: examples they weren't doing the like a lot of the
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: big things that they were doing were big things that
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: everybody else were doing. Like, of course you hunt the wind.
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: Of course you take the at you know, the proper
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: amount of time to make sure your gear is good
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: to go, and you practice with your boat. Of course,
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: you know, you you when the you know, you watch
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: for cold fronts, you know, like the obvious stuff. The
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: things that they did were like this, like this culmination
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: of small things that other people might not do. Like
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: you probably have buddies like this too. I've been guilty
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: of it before. When they're a pro coach in a
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: morning or an afternoon hunt, the mindset is like what
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: is the latest I can possibly sleep and get you know,
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: getting up the tree as quick as you can and
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: where it's like them, it's like I want an hour
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: of a grace period, Like I don't want there to
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: be a single chance that I'm late, right what talking about?
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: Like I mean everyone knows, like some people would say,
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: like routes to a stand is a big thing, dude.
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: Some of the ways when I because I filmed Brad
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: a lot, especially in the early years, like I hunted
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: idea hunting with Brad more than anybody else. I would
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: get aggravated at that, dude sometimes for some of the
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: crazy out of the like just out of the way
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: like routes we would take to get to a tree stand.
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: But like, there is no way that was going to
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: risk that a deer was gonna smell us getting in there. Like,
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: there was never ever a lazy approach to a stamp
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: like it. It did not happen. Dude, everything Brad and
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: Will they both did this. Man, if there was a
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: te screw like like that you that you're gonna put
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: in the tree to hang your backpack on, that tea
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: screw is going to have electrical tape wrapped all the
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: way around it. There was not anything that was going
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: to make a dan, not one like I mean, just
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: like all this small minute stuff that just culminated and
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: just made it to where like they're like, they made
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: it to where it was as seamless as possible.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man, that's you can't hear that enough. I mean
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: I've heard different versions of that from so many people
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: that it's it's almost like the golden rule of deer hunting.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: Now it's there's no there's no silver bullet. There's no
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: easy answer. There's no like, oh, this is the secret,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: except for do all the little things. It's like there's
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: no big thing because all of the little things, added up,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: layer after la after layer, are what lead to success
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: in the end. That's just so true, dude.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: Even I've got I've got another one. Like I remember
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: we were hunting somewhere. There was this, there was this
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: This was really early despite in the first, first or
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: second follows with him, and uh, there was this big
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: a point that we were after. And he was cool man.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: He had like matching kickers on G two. I mean,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: just a cool fuck real had had a lot of masks,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: dark horned. He was just cool. He was really cool.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: And we had gone through like all this rigmarole trying
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: to get this deer in front of us, and finally
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: Brad got this notion. There was this tree. I mean,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: I remember, I remember, It's like it was yesterday. We'd
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: been hunting, we'd had a double lock on set in
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: this honey locust tree is an early season like early
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: like super awesome food source in the early season. And uh,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: we just weren't like even though we you know, we
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: thought the wind was right we thought our approach was right.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: But after I think we went in there like two
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: three times, we had some doze and stuff come in,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: but we never saw that buck. And Brad was like,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: something's not right, like he's catching us coming in there something,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: and he kept he decides like walking out one day,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: he's like, we're moving sets. We're going to that tree
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: and there was this wonky tree like it took us
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: forever to get the stand in there. Uh And it
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: worked like that, Like as much as careful as we
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: were as we were trying to take to get in there,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: there must have been something with the route that we
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: were taking, because the first time we moved that set,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: we ended up shooting that deer. But the point that
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: I was making is, you know, like we're sitting in
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: this double set and does started coming through early filtering through,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: heading towards that honeylocust tree. We're I mean, we're not
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: fifty yards from where our first set was Game of Inches, right,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: and where the way we had the two lock on set,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: like I always had binos on even though I was
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: running the camera and me and Brad just chilling. These
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: does coming through, and there was one like three year
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: old buck, and I'm just I'm just looking at the buck.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: And I pick up my byos, look at him, sit
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: there and film war. And I go to grab my
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: binos again and I feel Brad's hand just stop me.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: And I'm like what and he and he said, what
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: are you doing? I said, looking at that buck? He
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: goes you already looked at him, and I was like,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: what do you mean? He was like, why would you
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: risk the movement that you ain't got a risk? Fair enough? Yeah?
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: Interesting the stuff like that.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: Man Like if he Brad like, he's not going to
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: be constantly doing this number with his binos, He's going
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: to look as much as he needs to, and then
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: he's conserving movement.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: M little things. The man, man, that's the true. What
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: about what about like unique to the South? I mean,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: you guys and I'll get to go up and do
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: some stuff from the Midwest, but then you've also obviously
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: had this Southern experience being down there yourselves. And this
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: is a place that I've always fallen short with with
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: wired hunt over the years. As being a northern guy myself,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: it's so easy to ignore or just be ignorant of
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: the unique aspects of hunting down south. You know, having
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: gotten to experience a little bit of all of it yourself,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: what has stood out to you is like, man, these
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: are the big things that are different about hunting in
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: the South, or ways you need to approach it differently
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: than you know, what you see everybody doing on TV
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: in the Midwest, or you know just how folks do
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: it in Michigan or Iowa or Illinois.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: Dude, I'd say one of the biggest things is a
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: lot a lot of the other places that we would
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: go for widetail when we traveled, even if it was
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: like not a crazy terrain laden place like Wisconsin can
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: be your Iowa or something like that. I it's crazy,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: and it's one of I grew up hunting this fla
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: country down here, so I didn't know much different than it.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: But I remember the first time that I went to
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: Iowa and I hear someone say a pinch point, and
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: I look at this pinch point, I'm like, no kidding,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: you know. And so one of the bigger obstacles or
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: like huge things that you would have to overcome at
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: home without bait obviously, like bait can be the great equalassar,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: but but is it's learning like how to pattern deer
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: movement in that flat country. And there's like, man, one
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: of it's like vegetation, like hunting privot lines is a
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: big thing down here. Another thing and it's gonna sound
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: like I'm contradicting myself, but I'll elaborate, is learning to
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: look at a topographic map, because one thing that I
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: learned is I can go to a place. I'm thinking
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: of a place right now, a place that we hunted
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: on the Big Black River, especially for bottoms, like of
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: course the river bottoms pretty flat, you know. Man, You
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: pull up like a topo map like on X or something,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: and the slightest topographic change, and I mean so slight
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: that like some of that river bottom stuff. You pull
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: it up and you turn topo on, and you're like,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: there's still not any lines here, There is no there
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: is no topo. If you see that line, if you
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: see a single line, like I will go and scout
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: along that one topographic change, because those that wildlife knows
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: it's there, like and I and you will find even
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: when you're standing there, you're like, this all still looks
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: the same, Like this doesn't look hardly anything different from
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: from here or there. But it'll be just slight enough
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: that the vegetation will be different that deer will be
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: using it for travel that you will find like you'll
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: find the most subtle saddle and there will be a
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: trail through there. But that's that is huge down at home,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: learning how to determine travel in that flat country, I
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: think I would say that to me, I'd say that's
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: probably the biggest.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't know what it's like exactly where
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: you hunt. But one thing that I've seen and heard,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: like when I went and did a project down Mississippi
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: last summer the summer before was down there in the
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: is it the DeSoto National Force? Is that right? Yeah?
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: You were like down around like Leaf River or something,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: weren't you.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds right. I think that rings well. Yeah,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: being in some of that country, you can just see
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: like these vast tracts of timber, you know, I mean
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: there's not the obvious there's not the obvious vegetation pinch
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: points or like obvious bedding, obvious feeding, obvious travel from
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: a to b like you have in row crop country.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: And I know that's you know, all these pines stands
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: through Georgia or Mississippi or Arkansas or Alabama, Like I
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: know that's a consistent thing. I've hunting down in southern
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: part of Alabama, same thing. Like that is a real deal.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: Trying to trying to dice big country like that is
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: not easy.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: No, it's not. And it's dude, it'll drive you crazy.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: Like even the guys that I know that are like,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: there's I got somebody's down here, man, Like I said,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: I'm as and I'm just being honest, Like as a
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: deer hunter, I can hold my water. But I got
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: buddies that like I'm like, dude, that's a that's a
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: good deer hunter. And even those guys, they'll drive themselves insane,
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: especially on a new property, like like trying to figure
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: out because the other thing is like, well I said,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: they will be using those subtle topo changes. It's not
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: like like I remember I remember one of the first
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: times I filmed in the Midwest. I think I saw
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: every deer that inhabited those woods come down this one ridge,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: you know, whereas like these like you don't know what
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: they're gonna do. You know, like you find a trail,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: like yeah, that buck's gonna be using it, but you
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: don't know if he's using it, then you know, you know,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: it's just it's it's uh, it's you. You drive yourself
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: insane trying to trying to pull a pattern on them.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: Food sources are huge, huge, Like I said, that's why
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: when I found those white oak trees I was talking
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: about earlier, I was like, oh, you know, when you
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: find something like that next to a big thicket, like,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: that's about as good as an indicator as you can get.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: Lord Willing, we have a good acre and craft this year. Yeah,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: but like stuff like that, it's good to kiyo, but yeah,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: it's tough, man, It's tough.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: Do you have the itch yet? Like every year, right
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: around July ish is when I really start getting the
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: white tail. It's like I'm thinking about it throughout the
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: year for all sorts of different reasons in different parts
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: of the year, but I don't start getting like weird
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: until usually July, and that's I'm like, oh, man, I
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: gotta start watching my white tail YouTube videos or pull
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: out this North American white tail and start annoying my
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: wife with stuff like that. Has that started for you
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: yet or if not, when does that peak?
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: Typically about I've actually been like, and this is now
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: I've shot my bow three times, like like three different
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: days going out and shoot shooting my boat shout like
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: three times over the past week and a half. And
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: I some folks would be like, what are you doing?
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: You should be shooting it more probably, but I'm saying
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: that is in like normally I don't. I'm not shooting
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: it all this time now, I'm not like July. August
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: is when I'm typically like out there every day shooting.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: But I'm a little like, I'm kind of surprised myself
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: that I'm shooting this early.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: But uh.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say typically probably around the same time frame,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: especially about August, you know, like you really start thinking
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: about it and you've been like Turkey season is far
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: enough away, and by the time you hit August, you've
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: gone about as long as you can stand without being
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: able to something.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: You know, for me, and I know this isn't possible
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: down your neck of the woods as much, but for me,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: that first time when you see a buck in a
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: field like a bean field or alfalfa fielders something, you're like, oh,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: that's a nice buck, Like the first time they've grown
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: enough where you're like ooh, and you're seeing those like orange,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: beautiful shiny coats out there in a green field that
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: just like gets my juices flowing. And it's usually, uh,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: it's usually just downhill from there, so we're getting really close.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: We're getting close, dud, dude, And this is this may
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: sound goofy to you, but like I get when I think,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: cause like I mean, I may look up and shoot
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 3: a good buck in October. Typically typically if I'm gonna
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: kill a good buck, it's normally later in the year December, January,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 3: rut stuff like heavily after the like post rut keno
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: and food shorts type stuff. When I get when I'm
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: getting jazzed up about October early botseason, I'm thinking about
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: shooting dose like I which again we have a lot
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: of deer down here, but I love shooting does with
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: my bow. And that I mean, And like I said,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: some folks are like the dough you know. But uh,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: like even when I when I'm talking about that white
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: oak spot, like of course I would love for a
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: you know, a good buck to walk into there. But
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: when I'm thinking about going in there and hunting it,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking about, oh, there's gonna be some does come
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: into here that I can pop.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: I love it. Yeah, I feel like I'm getting more
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: of that way every year, more and more. There's there's
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: something about there's something. I don't know if this is
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: the same for you, But when I flip the switch
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: from like I'm in buck mode to instead like dope Patrol,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: when I flip that switch, it just it's just a
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: totally different hunt, and it's obviously a more target rich environment,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: and I don't know, it's just so much fun. It's
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: it's maybe less pressure, but more opportunity coming your way. Likely.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: So I'm always I'm on Dope Patrol a whole lot
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: more than I'm on Buck Patrol.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I'm following. I'm following that path more these
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: days myself too. Well, Like, give me this before we
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: wrap it up. Give me the quick rundown for folks
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: on where to find the new podcast when episodes are
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: coming out, and if there's anything else that you can
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: or want to preview for people other than what we've
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: discussed so far.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, so Backwoods University. It comes out every other week.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: But I told one person bi weekly and they're like
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: twice a week. I'm like, no, that is Codunystic. Yeah,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: so every other week. So we had one come out
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 3: yesterday or Monday, June twenty third, and so the next
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: one will come out in two weeks. But it comes
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: out on Mondays every every other Monday on the Bear
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 3: Grease feed. Clay was talking about it the other day.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: It's like our feed's getting so complicated, it's getting lengthy
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: to start to explain it because you got to go
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: Backwoods University on the Mediator podcast Network.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: On the Bear Speak Yeah, it is getting a little wordy,
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: that's true. Well man, I'm I'm really excited about it.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: I think you're after a great start. I appreciate the
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: the issues and topics and stories that you're sharing with people.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: It's so fascinating, it's so important. So keep it up, man,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: and thanks thanks for taking this time to chat dear
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: and wildlife and all the good stuff in between.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, man, thanks for having me on. I always enjoy
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: chatting with you.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: It's great, great stuff, all right, and that's going to
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: do it. Thank you for joining me. Hopefully you enjoyed
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: my chat with Lake and until next time, stay wired.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: Done