Latest / Stuff You Should Know / Selects: Maggots: Good For Healing Wounds, Turns Out

Transcript

Selects: Maggots: Good For Healing Wounds, Turns Out · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello there, it's Josh and for this week's S Y
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: s K Selex, I've chosen maggots colon good for healing wounds.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Turns out, uh, and that is absolutely true. Um, I
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: really listened to all of our select episodes, and I
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: listen to this one, and I'm clearly excited in the episode.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: But I was just as excited listening to it all
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: these years later, but five years after we released it. Um,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: So I hope it excites you. It is groty, but
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: it's also pretty awesome. So enjoy slash prepared to be
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: grossed out. Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: of My Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: and uh, no one, no one else is in here
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: with us yet again, because we've graduated to the point
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: where we don't even need a producer. We need so
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: body who presses record and leaves Yep, that's it, because
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: we're pros Yep, not p R O s E. P
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: R Oh that's right, we're not. But we are prosaic, yes,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: but definitely not p r O apostrophees. Very few things
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: drive me crazier than that. And I know it's stupid
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: and pedantic, but to see, like somebody take out a
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: huge billboard or something and so a word has an
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: apostrophe that shouldn't prose. People say, like, leave it to
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: the pros and they'll put an apostrophe. Yes, and it's
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: it's that graphic designer should be, you know, doctor half
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: a day's paying maybe eight bucks. Something we want to
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: issue and you probably would get this from the title
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: of the episode, but we want to issue a meal warning.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Oh good thinking, because we've gotten complaints in the past
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: when people are eating and get sick listening to some
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: of these, Yeah, this would do it possibly for some people.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I was fine, I ate a runny yolk egg sandwich
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: while I white writer. Yeah right, it didn't bother me,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: but I could totally see how it could be any people.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: I also want to say, um, if it comes up,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: do not go Google image search wound sloth. Well, I
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: just put do not Google image search maggot therapy at all. Okay, sure,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: but definitely stay away from wound sloth s l o
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: U g H. Yeah, wow, it definitely don't look at
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: wound slough while you're eating. Yeah, okay, so that's all
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: out of the way. Yes, I predict we're going to
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: be kind of excited about this one. I'm feeling a
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: little pumped about it. Well, we did cover in uh
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: tin bizarre medical treatments uh leech therapy, which is still
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: being used, and I'm surprised this wasn't in that article.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: To be honest, I am as well. But this gets
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: its own special deal, and well it should actually because
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: it's a pretty amazing thing. Um, we're talking about maggot therapy. Also,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: by the way, yes it is they were awesome so
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: or they really or is it a band name? Well,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: it's a band name to end all band names. There
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: probably was a band name that, So there's it's called
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: maggot therapy, maggot debridement therapy, larval therapy, or bio. There's
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: another one called I think like bio biodebridement or therapeutic
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: wound misses. Yeah, and that's basically all the all of them,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: no matter what you call it, no matter how you
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: church it up. It is the application of live maggots
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: fly larva to purposefully to an open wound in order
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: to help that wound heal. Faster and better and cleaner
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: and everything. Dat punk said, Oh yeah, you know, should
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: we talk about some of the history of this stuff.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Let's just say that one more time. Okay. Maggot debridement
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: therapy is taking live maggots and put getting them in
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: an open wound on a human being or an animal.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: It's used in veterinary medicine as well, wrapping it up
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: tight and letting them just eat the dead and dying
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: flesh of that wound while you get your foot tickled. Okay,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: I would be so skiped out by this. I just
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that everybody knows exactly what we're
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: talking about, right, and goodbye to everyone everyone who fainted. Okay, Yeah,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: let's talk about the history, chuck, because this is um.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: This is in use today, but it's actually pretty old. Yeah,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I mean it's it's some say it's an even an
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: ancient tradition, like in places like Burma in Central America
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: with the Mayan's um. They were smart enough to know
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: that maggots do a pretty good job of consuming human flesh. Uh,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: and it can be used for good in that regard. Yeah,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: at some point I guess healers noticed like yef. People
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: who had maggots in their wounds tended to have wounds
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: heal U. And actually, as far as the Western literature goes,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: that's exactly how um maggot therapy first finds its way,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: first crawls into the medical literature is from a French
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: surgeon named Ambro Ambras Poare. Yeah, but how would you say,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't speak French Ambras even though
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: it doesn't have the little what is that an accent? Yeah,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: it's just the e. But he was a sixteenth century
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: surgeon and he noticed that, um, that people didn't necessarily
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: fall over dead if there was a maggot in the wound. Yeah.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: He was the first doctor to actually come out and say,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: you know, I had this patient with a big skull wound,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: and unbeknownst to me, there were maggots in there. I
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: saw them crawling out one day. And even though they
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: had a lot of bone. Um, the guy was great.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: He healed like he lost a hand sized slab of
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: skull and he lived. And I think it might have
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: something to do with the maggots. And he presumably were
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: a helmet for the us of his life. Probably he
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: had a probably big soft skull there, I guess so. Uh.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: That was followed in uh with the mid seventeen hundreds
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: by another Frenchy baron, Dominique Jean Laoie uh, and he said,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: you know what, on this Egyptian expedition, Uh, these blue
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: fly maggots are actually doing the right thing and helping
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: us out. So it's almost like these doctors just noticed
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: this exactly and it meant enough to him that they
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: were like, I should probably write this down. This is
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: going to be my great contribution to medical history of
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: the history of science, right. Um. So it wasn't until
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: the uh, I guess, the Civil War that a doctor
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: actually said I'm going to purposefully put maggots in a
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: wound and see what happens. And that doctor was John
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Forney Zacharias. He probably didn't tell his patient that. I
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: think probably that he was just like, just bite down
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: on this brooms and the other way. Do you want
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: to lose your foot or do you want to try
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: something really weird? Well, supposedly in studies of people, modern
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: patients who are offered this therapy say yes to it. Well, yeah,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: because I think that's what it comes down to. You
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: it's a last resort. Basically, it's not the first thing
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: they offer, not necessarily. Um So, Anyway, doctor Zacharias um
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Hey had a great quote. He said, during my service
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: in the hospital at Danville, Virginia, I first used maggots
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: to remove the decayed tissue in Hospital Gang Green, and
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: with my eminent satisfaction, in a single day, they would
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: clean a wound much better than any agents we had
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: at our command. I used them afterwards at various places.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: I am sure I saved many lives by their use,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: escaped sept to semia, and had rapid recoveries period. End quote.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Pretty great. Yeah. So he was a huge believer and
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: not just a passive observer like people who came before him.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: He said, Yeah, I put maggots on wounds and it helps,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: That's right. And uh, people experimented with it for a
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: little while until um a guy named Louis Pasteur and
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Robert Coke came along, uh microbiologists and germ theorists that
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: basically said, you know, this is this is disgusting. We
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: might want to not do this. Yeah, because they're dirty.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and it's true. Maggots naturally in the wild
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: carry lots of pathogens with them that UM can infect
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: us in other ways, can make a wound worse, can
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: actually kill you. So this the idea behind germ theory
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: as far as maggots goes. Right. But UM, it seems
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: like there's this long history of necessity and disgusted with
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: maggot therapy that kind of wayne ebbs and flows right,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: and necessity rears its head on the battlefield. It did
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: in the Civil War, and it also did in World
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: War One. There was a surgeon UM named William S.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Bayer and he was working on the front lines in France,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: and he used maggots on stomach wounds and open fractures,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: and he found, to his great satisfaction, just like Dr
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Zacharias and the other before him, that this stuff actually worked. Yeah,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: And he actually said, you know what, I have some
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: further advancements. UM, maybe we should put a bandage over
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: this thing so it doesn't completely discussed the patient. Uh,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: And let me UM put bandages around the wound, so
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: they don't start creeping onto the healthy flesh and doing
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: damage or just itching you or creeping you out further
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: right exactly, UM, which are still in use today. These techniques.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: He also pioneered another huge technique, and this is after
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: the war was over. Ten years later, when he was
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: back at Johns Hopkins UM. He he pioneered another really
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: important technique, and that was using sterilized um maggots. Like
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: germ free maggots. They were raised as eggs in a
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: sterile environment and so when they were introduced to the wounds,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: they weren't carrying these pathogens anymore. And he found this
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: is the jackpot. Now you can use maggots from now on.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: That's right. And there was a big boom in the
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: thirties up until the mid nineteen forties. Uh, three more
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: than three hundred American hospitals. Uh, we're using maggot treatment,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: maggot therapy. And then in uh antiseptics came along, or
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: you know, new antiseptics and they said, you know what,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: maybe there was another lull in the use of maggot theory. Right,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Necessity didn't didn't spur this stuff, and it was they
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: went back to just being gross again. There was a
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: guy um who by the eighties wrote what what this
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: one article calls the majority opinion. Fortunately, maggot therapy is
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: now relegated to a historical backwater of interest more for
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: its bizarre nature than its effect on the course of
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: medical science. A therapy the demise of which no one
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: is likely to mourn. That's just that kind of Western
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: medicine hubris, where like we can do anything except everything,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: you know. Uh, that's right. And in the nineteen nineties, UM,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: a dude named Ronald Sherman and Edward peck Or basically
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: champion the technique again and kind of brought it into
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: the modern age. Yeah, and still very much is. Um.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Ronald Sherman is one of the first, I think, to
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: receive a license to produce sterile maggots for use as
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: medical devices. Um. And there's another guy over in uh
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: the UK named John Church um who who brought the
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: maggot their maggot therapy into the four So it was
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: an ancient thing, it was. It's found to be disgusting,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: it's found to be useful, it's found to be disgusting,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: it's found ways you can make it better. It's found
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: to be disgusting. And then now that this idea of
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: complimentary medicine is is kind of regaining some traction again. UM,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: I think it's here to stay. Though I think so too,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: unless someone comes along in ten years is you know
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: what it's disgusting, Well, you know the chuck. I mean
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: probably what we're seeing is the next thing that will
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: happen is there will be some huge leaps, some huge
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: development in science, and science will get its tackles up
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: again and great about itself and we don't need any
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: of that stupid nastiness. And then we'll find that Nope,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: you still can't beat good old fashioned maggots. And that's
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: that should be the title of this thing. You can't
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: beat good old fashioned maggots for healing a wound that
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: won't heal otherwise. It's a great title. So you want
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: to take a break, Uh, yeah, let's do it, and
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: we'll go um treat our own wounds and we'll be
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: back shortly. All right, Let's talk about diabetes for a second. Yeah,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: more than twenty three million Americans are affected with diabetes.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: And one thing that can happen, uh is nerve damage,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: especially in the extremities the hands and feet and the
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: toes and the and the fingers. Your blood vessels become
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: hard and they don't circulate the blood like you need.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: That can lead to open sores called ulcers, which can
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: become infections, which can spread to nearby bone, which can
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: lead to amputation. Yeah, and all of all this is
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: just from a prolonged exposure to high levels of blood
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: sugar and they're not sure how it can do it.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, the blood, the blood vessels not helping pump
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: blood very well get nutrients or your tissue can die.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: But also that neuropathy that dead and nerves cell um
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: that actually makes it hard for you to notice. If
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: you have like a really bad ulcer on the bottom
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: of your foot, you can't feel it. Yeah, and so
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: you don't get treatment early enough, so it can get
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: an infection, can get out of hand, and when it
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: spreads to bone that's called osteo myelitis. That's problematic because
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: that very quickly will lead to an amputation. And there's
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: some pretty shocking stats here from this article that Tom wrote,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Um about this sheave jam Yeah nice, it's yeah for sure, Um,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: But about amputations from diabetes, Yes, seventy thousand to foot
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: and leg amputations each year in the United States alone,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: and uh they say around the world, they estimate every
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: thirty seconds someone gets a limb cut off because of diabetes. Yeah,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: that's sad. Yeah, it really is, and we should. We
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: will do one on diabetes for sure. Oh yeah, I'm
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: surprised we haven't already. Um. But the so amputation is
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: used to halt the progress of an infection, and that's
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: usually the last resort. But what's what Tom points out
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: is that there are plenty of doctors around the world
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: I imagine that aren't aware that you can use maggots
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: or have ever done it before. And if you are
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: facing an amputation from say like a wound, a persistent wound,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: a chronic wound that won't heal, Um, you may want
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: to suggest maggots to your doctor. You may have to
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: actually take this the the initiative on this one and say,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: let's make sure the amputation is the absolute last resort.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Let's see if we can put one more resort in
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: there before then I'm willing to let maggots crawl inside
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: my body in this wounds open wound if you're willing
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: to apply them. And they uh, like most doctors love
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: hearing when patients suggest treatments. Oh they do. They love feedback.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: They love to be guided in their diagnoses and prognoses. Yeah,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I love it. That's a tough jam. I get it.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Doctors are frustrated a lot of these days with self
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: diagnosis and online doctoring. But you should also be your
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: own advocate. We can't be in that before. Yeah it's
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: your leg. Yeah you want to keep your leg. You
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: tell that doctor to go get some maggots. You're going
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: to replace them with the doctor who will. I can
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: find a guy, Yeah, I can get a guy by
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: noon that'll put maggots on that wound. And actually there's
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: a there's a group I think Ronald Sherman, the guy
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier who's like the the US champion of
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: maggot therapy. UM. It's there's this group called the B
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Turf Foundation B T e Er Foundation, UM, and they
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: have all sorts of resources for people in that very situation,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: like how to talk to your doctor, UM that if
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: your insurance won't cover it, let them know, because they
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: say insurance actually most insurance covers maggot therapy, but most
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: insurance claims people are not aware of that, so you
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: may get denied at first. And here's how to talk
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: to your insurance company. That's it really is. That beats
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: going to your doctor and saying well, you know what
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Josh and Chuck said. He you're not gonna like hearing this,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: right because you think you know it all doctor, please
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: take a sleep and be put maggots on my feet, right.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: And and that's the other thing too, I mean, like
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: we wouldn't be suggesting this and the Better Foundation probably
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be such advocates for it if it didn't work
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: so amazingly. Well, it's study after study, and we'll talk
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: about the details of it, but there's so many studies
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: out there. Um Again. Sherman, who agreed, is an advocate,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: but in a pure reviewed journal published a survey of
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: studies that he could find on maggot therapy, and it's
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: very clear that it works really really well, and not
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: only necessarily um as a means of last resort, but
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: even just compared to the standard of care using like
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: hydrogell or other things that you might use to treat
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: a chronic wound. Maggots destroy it, They leave it in
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: the dust. Yeah. And if it doesn't work, it's not
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: gonna hurt anything. Yeah. Yeah, it just puts off how
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: much longer before they amputate your foot? Pretty much? Yeah.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Uh so what will happen is they will Well, let's
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: get into this a little bit. Um, there are four
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: differ friend, and you where did you find this? Was
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: this a a research paper? Yeah? This is by Ronald
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Sherman Mechanisms of maggot induced wound healing colin What do
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: we know and where do we go from here? It
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: was in the journal Evidence Based, Complimentary and Alternative Medicine
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and fourteen, that's right, And he describes
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: four different phases of basically healing a wound um homeostasis, inflammation, ploriferate. Man,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I'm so bad at that one. Oh yeah, keep it coming, proliferation,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: nice going, and uh remodeling and maturing. And what happens
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: is the cells get to work, they recruit other cells,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: they alter their activities and basically say, let's get to
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: work cleaning and uh, well on all four of these
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: stages to help heal the wound. Yeah, and at any
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: any one of those stages, Um that the next process
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: can stall out. Um. Normally it stalls out at inflamation
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: ation because the infection gets out of hand in the
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: body can't fight off the infection faster than it's laying
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: The extracellular matrix for the new cells to be rebuilt,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: the new tissue to recro um. And that's that's it's
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: a common thing that leads to chronic wounds. Yes, they
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: just won't heal. And that's where maggots are really really
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: useful to basically interrupt that stall and get the car
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: moving again in the right direction. It's exactly right, they
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: kick started. Uh. So debridemant is removing dead tissue, and
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: that is really where maggots excel um. They said, Uh,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: in here, each maggot can chew, Well they don't exactly chew,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: which we'll get to. Uh. They remove twenty five milligrams
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: of necrotic material dead flesh, uh, in just twenty four hours. Yeah,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: that's pretty good. Yeah, and uh, there's there's actually three
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: ways that maggots clean a wound. But debridement, which is
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: getting in there and like just cleaning out, removing physically
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: removing um that dead material. That's like the key that
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: seems to be the key. And then there's also um
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: anti microbial activity like actually killing the bacteria that's killing
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: the flesh, leaving it cleaner than when they came in, Yeah,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: which is amazing. And then even more astounding stimulating new growth,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: like the act the presence of maggots in your wound
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: stimulates new tissue growth around your skin. It's the most
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: they're just like wonder creatures who knew. One of the
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: ways that they remove this dead tissue is just by
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: the nature of what their body is like. And they
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: have these little prickly spines all over their body that
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: act as a surgeon's rasp rasper or file what It
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Basically just the fact that they're moving around on the
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: wound is going to like file the stuff down and
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: scrape the wound, which helps loosens it up. It's like
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: a plow. It burrows through this dieing and dead tissue
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: and it just, yeah, it loosens up. That's part one
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: of derived Part one. There's another part of it, which
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: is the digestive enzymes that they excrete and secrete. It's
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: called alimentary secretions and excretions a s C. It's basically
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: they're digestive juices, right, and they puke these up as
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: they're moving around and they just they just puke them
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: everywhere and it dissolves this flesh. Yeah. I remember in
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: the Body Farms episode we we talked about this one
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: one of the old classics. And that's why I said earlier.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: They don't bite or choose something. They just liquefy it
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: and then suck it in. And this this A s
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: C stuff is so greedy that it liquefies more dead
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: flesh than the maggots can even consume, and they consume
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: quite a bit, Like you said, twenty five milligrams. That's
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: a lot for a little tiny maggot in one day.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: But even more than that, they're liquefying even more of
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: this dead tissue. So that part of the process of
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: maggot debridemant therapy is draining out this liquefied necrotic tissue
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: that's become liquefied from the alimentary or the the A
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: s C stuff. The digest events ons, right, So you've
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: got them burrowing around, you've got them puking into your wound,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: liquefying the dead tissue, leaving pretty much entirely the living
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: tissue alone, and then you just kind of drain out
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: the stuff that's that's in there. And the reason um
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: that maggots are considered by the FDA a medical device
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: rather than a drug is because the whole process of
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: dibrid mint isn't just a reaction to the chemicals. It
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: is part of that mechanical movement of the maggots through
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: the wound. So it's a drug, it's a device. I
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: mean it's a device. Look at them, yea, and those
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: that the secretions are so potent. They have basically DNA
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: destroying qualities, Like they not only just break down tissue,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: they destroy the d N A. It's pretty amazing stuff
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: it is. Should we take another break? Yeah, I'm a
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: little excited. We probably should. Alright, I'm gonna go to
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: the vomitorium. Are you grossed out slightly? I am not
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: in the least. What does that say about me? I
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: don't know. You have a stronger stomach, but I don't necessarily,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm just excited. All right, we'll go watch me
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: vomited at least. Okay, that will gross me out? All right?
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Well that was disgusting, it was It made me throw
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: up in turn. Uh So here's a couple of questions. Um,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: does it hurt? Maybe a little bit at first. Yeah,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: I don't get the feeling that it's extremely painful. It
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: probably depends on the wound. Um, but it can the
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: first few treatments can apparently be a little bit painful, right,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: And there's there's actually two mechanisms for the pain. One
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: is that an open wound, right, and you have maggots
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: crawling over the exposed nerves in your open wound. That's
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: not gonna feel good, No, it won't. Uh. And then
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: number two, pressure in the wound can increase as the
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: maggots get bigger from eating so much dead flesh. That's right.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: So yes, the the the cure to that is pain killers, which, frankly,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: if you have an open wound with exposed nerves, you
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: should probably be on those anyway. Sure you will be,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: so it probably won't hurt because there'll be some sort
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: of pain management going on, but you will still feel
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: most likely unless the doctor completely numbs the area maggots
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: crawling around inside the wound. See, that's what That's the
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: part that gets me is actually thinking about undergoing this
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: therapy myself is what gets me, not like seeing it
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: or reading about it, but thinking about having an open
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: wound on the bottom of my foot and having maggots
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: creeping around in there. See. The thing is I think
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: anybody would feel that way. There's very few included myself.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not grossed out by this, but I wouldn't want
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: maggots talking wound. But I think if your backs against
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: the wall, uh that, or you lose your foot, I try.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: I would definitely try. I think as people would apparently
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: man and I would demand some high quality drugs. And
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: they also have um what is it called amnesiotics to
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: make you forget about so you can't form memories while
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: it's happening. So maybe that would be a nice thing
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: to do too. So the other question is can you
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: just use any kind of maggot and the answer is no.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: What they found is the most useful is the larva
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: of the green blow fly. And like we said earlier,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: these things are now grown just sort of like the
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: medical leeches there shipped and sterile containers, uh as if
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: it were medicine, even though it's a device. And the
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: B T. E. R. Foundation they go into a lot
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: about this like could anybody do this? And they say, well, no,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: because you need a prescription. It's an FDA control yourself.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: But they say anybody who can read can basically follow
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: the instructions on the package. I wouldn't, I mean, I
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: wouldn't advise that as your non doctor. Sure, I'm not
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: saying that either, but I mean this may be your
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: doctor's first time to their Their point was is it's
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: not it's not difficult. Just follow the instructions on the packet.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: If you win. Your doctor though, he got the maggots
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: out and he put on his bifocals and was like,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: all right, let's see how to do this right or
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: like he tears the package open. They go everywhere you have,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: like Jerry Lewis as a doctor. Uh oh. But although
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: they do say, um, you can't just load it up
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: with maggots. There should be no more than eight maggots
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: per square centimeter. Yeah, I saw five to eight. And
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: so when you have the maggots applied to your um wound,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: they're going to make sure that the healthy area around
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: the wound is covered up so the maggots can't get
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: to it, which goes back to World War two. Yeah,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: they're going to cover it, cover up the wound after
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: they apply the maggots five to eight per square centimeter,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: like you say, and they're going to cover it up
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: so they can't wander off because maggots like to leave
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: before their work is done. Um TV, they're full pretty much, um,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: but they can still eat more if you'll keep them
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: in there so they will cover up. They'll put the
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: maggots in five to eight cover it up with this
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: bandage and basically they will just sit there and eat
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: for between forty eight and seventy two hours, and then
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: the bandage will be removed. The maggots will then sadly
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: be incinerated or put into an autoclave or put into
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: a plasma gas of fire, or bronzed and hung on
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: your wall for real, like an ant farm. Yeah, because
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: it's like, thank you for this great contribution to saving
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: my foot, Now go be autoclave today. I would name
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: them and save them and preserve them. Um, you'd be
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: violating I'm sure all sorts of medical waste laws, but
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: who cares and so and then that's that's what's called
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: the treatment cycle. And most patients UH supposedly go between
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: two and four treatment cycles. And again, while this is happening,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: what's going on is the maggots are debriding the dead flesh,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: they're liquefying it, they're eating it, and they're also disinfecting
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: it and stimulating growth. Right, pretty amazing. So with the
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: with this, with the disinfecting, they figured that there was
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: some sort of gut flora that the maggots have that
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: prevents them from being infected by micropoil. That would make
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: sense because they're in that riting flesh as well and
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: they're thriving, right, So what gives Well, it turns out
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: that there are a couple of um types of I'm
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: not quite sure what what kind of um bacteria they are,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: but they are. Oh that's not true. The proteus mirabilious
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: is a type of symbiotic microbe that you find in
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: the gut of a maggot, right, And this thing just
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: destroys microbial life. So it's killing the bacteria that's causing
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: this infection in your wound. But there's something that that maggots.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: This is yet another thing. So think about it, Chuck,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Like you said, maggots, The very structure of a maggot
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: body dibrides the wound. That's amazing. This maggot anti microbial
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: stuff not only does it kill microbes, it destroys the
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: thing that naturally protects microbes, which is called biofilm. Yeah,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: we've talked about biofilm a lot on this show, and um,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: it's basically it's basically a film, like a literal film,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: like a They call it a polymeric matrix. But the
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: easiest way to say in Layman's terment is it's a film, right,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: It's like a protective coding. Yeah. And the little spiny bodies,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: like one way they get rid of the thing is
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: by roughing it up, And that's exactly what the little
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: bodies do, right, And that's part of surgical I've meant
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: with like um, like going in there and scrubbing a
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: wound um with I don't know, steel wool or something
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: like that that will break up the biofilm. It's also
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: must be awfully painful, right. Maggots naturally can destroy not
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: just the bacteria but also the biofilm that protects it
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: to which makes them extremely handy with things like MERSA
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: and other antibiotic resistant um bacteria and all kinds of ulcers, right,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: not like internal ulcers, but the open wound kind right,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: exactly from diabetes, from bed sores um. And there's been
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of studies of people with bed sores that
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: have found that maggots help those kind of ulcers tremendously,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: so Uh, let's talk about this one study or a
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: couple of studies. Actually, UM, there was one study of
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: spinal cord injury patients that had non healing ulcers, which
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: is the problem. And they monitored them over three to
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: four weeks UM, and they were getting regular wound care
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: at the same time, like sometimes it's used in conjunction
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: I think usually is used in conjunction with like standard care. UH.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: And they found that uh, after three or four weeks
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: of maggot therapy, tissue quality and wound size were ressessed
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: weekly and they found that debridement was achieved in less
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: than fourteen days an average of ten days, and none
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: of the control group wounds were more than fifty dibrided
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: after a month. A month, not even half dibrided. None
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: of the wounds, not half the wounds were divided, None
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: of the wounds were even half dibrided after a month
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: chuck of the control group. Yes, amazing where they didn't
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: use the maggots. Yes, that's that's objectively amazing. It is.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: And then they did a larger clinical trial and found uh,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: this time they got two hundred and sixty three subjects,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: which is pretty good for this kind of rare treatment
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: for uh. And they found that um, using the hydrogel
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: which you mentioned earlier, compression dressings, just the standard care,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: that was the control. Yeah, that's obvious. The control. They
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: differed significantly between the three groups. Um, what was the
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: third group? The third group used bio bags, which are
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: like it's like a little pouch. You said it was
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: like a rav healthy Yeah, and it's filled with live maggots,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: but it prevents them from burrowing. All it is is
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: using their chemical secretions. Yeah, I don't That to me
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: is just like why go halfway? Right? Exactly? Well, a
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: lot of people are like, I don't want a maggot
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: crawling in my wound, but a bag of them is
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: fine doing the shake shake near my wound. Right. So, um,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: it actually has been shown to be not nearly as
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: effective as just letting what's called free range maggots burrow
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: through the wound. So they found the media time for
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: debryment was fourteen days with free range, twenty eight days
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: with the bagged ravioli, and seventy two days for the control.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's pretty amazing. Yeah, Like, I I don't know,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think it should be a last resort. You know,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: I agree, and I think that increasingly it's becoming less
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: and less of the last resort because I mean, you
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: can compare it to the control, Like the standard of
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: care took seventy two days for the wound to be divided,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: free range maggots fourteen days. That to me says that
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: free range maggots top the standard of care as it
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: stands right now. But like you say, there's a lot
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: of people who are saying this is just a last resort.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: The next thing we're gonna do is amputate your foot.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: But let's try this one last time. Or in the
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: case of persistent infections from like MERSA, where just antibiotics
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: just don't work, let's let's try maggots and see if
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: we can fix it. And maggots do work. There was
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: a study that found that of thirteen people treated who
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: had MERSA treated with maggots alone, twelve of the thirteen
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: had complete recovery and wound healing um from a mercer infection.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Mercu's nasty stuff too. Yeah, I think did we do
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: what I'm MERSA. I feel like we did. I know
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: we've talked about it. I don't know if it got
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: its own show though may have been in the should
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: we outlaw anti bacterial soap episode? Well, there's been a
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: lot of them, almost eight hundred. Uh you got anything else?
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Surely I do, but I guess not. Um. Oh yeah,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Well there's one other thing we kept kind of teasing it.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: It actually stimulates growth. A couple of studies have found
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: that the presence of maggots um produce more blood vessel
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: redevelopment and tissue redevelopment than maggots not being present. So
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: something about them actually stimulates tissue growth and blood vessel growth,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: which promotes wound healing even more. Up with maggots. Up
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: with maggots, indeed, Man, I love them. I'm so psyched
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: about maggots right now. Well, it definitely changes the way
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: you think about them. Like, next time you see a
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: the dead squirrel that you've killed, they're clearly trying to
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: bring it back to life. Yeah, and you see the
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: maggot you can. You don't think that's disgusting. You just
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: think those are little things doing their thing, doing their thing.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Little things doing their thing. Now I'm going to autoclave them,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: that's right. Uh. If you want to know more about
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: maggot therapy, you can type those words in the search
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: bar at how stuff forks dot com. And since I
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: said search parts time forward listener, I'm gonna call this
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: taken to task somewhat over a term. Guys, I want
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: to say you are my favorite podcast by far. I've
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: been listening since you were just a little five minute blurbs.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Oh man, you sure have grown up. I've never written
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: in before, but felt a head to comment on Josh's
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: statement that climate change was for global warming was settled science. No,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: I'm not disputing the data that shows an increase in
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: global temperatures. While you can certainly argue it's accuracy, especially
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: for older data, it's still just data. It's not science.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: The part that gets me upset about the term settled sciences.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: By definition, science is never settled, and that's an all caps.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: I think we talked a lot about this is the
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: scientific method of this stuff. You guys actually did a
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: podcast on the scientific method, so you should know that
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: at best you can show a particular theory is supported
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: by existing data and not contradicted by anything we know
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: of at the time. But there's a reason that ultra
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: successful theories like Newton's theory of gravity hind science. Theory
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: of relativity are still theories. They could be completely discredited
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: by a single piece of data contradicting them. So the
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: whole idea of taking a body of fact saying it's
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: settled is far more political concept than scientific one. While
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: people with various viewpoints in the subject would like to
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: have someplace to plant their ideological flag, saying something is
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: indisputedly true as opposed to probably false is simply not
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: something science and the scientific method is equipped to do.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: In short, science has never settled. You cannot simply say
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: this is true, move on. That's not how it works.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: And that is from Spencer Carpenter right here in our
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: own Smyrna, Georgia. We're not in St. Well, I mean
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: it's it's nearby. What I just did is what Spencer
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: just did. Spencer, I was using a literary device. I
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: was actually using the same type of argument that science
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: that non science climate deniers use against scientists. I was
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: basically saying, like, it's done, drop it. There's enough science
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: there to say you're you're you're wrong. Let's move on
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: and just all accept that climate science is going it's
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: a layoff. So that was a clever ruse. It wasn't
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: a ruse at all. It was it was just I
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: was not being literal like apparently, which is what Spencer
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: deals in literal terms. Uh, if you want to take
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: us to test because you are overly literal, we want
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: to hear from you. You can tweet to us at
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: s y s K podcast. You can join us on Facebook,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: dot com, slash Stuff you Should Know. You can send
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: us an email to Stuff podcast that how Stuff works
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: dot com and has always joined us at our home
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: on the web. Stuff you Should Know dot Com. Stuff
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: favorite shows. H