Latest / Bless This Mess: A Southern True Crime Podcast / 88. [Texas] Sandra Martin

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88. [Texas] Sandra Martin · Bless This Mess: A Southern True Crime Podcast

0:21
Hevery one. Welcome to bless this mess. In the for Grum podcast,
0:23
I don't care here Stu soa heyst Hey, all right, so we're back
0:26
with you. We are going to Texas this episode, good old Lone Star
0:30
State. Deep in the Heart ATTACKASA. It's deep in the heart of Texas,
0:34
Deep in the heart of Texas. Stop. Okay, but you got
0:40
a clap in everything. It's like, that's why I said stop. I
0:44
know, I'm trying to hear how I'm gonna clap on this. You can't.
0:47
But it's like a thing. If you start singing that, anybody from
0:50
Texas will start, will clap on command. Whenever you sing deep in the
0:55
heart at Texas. It's you can't stop himself. It's a law. It's
0:59
a law. You'll lose your Texas card if you don't. Yes, you
1:02
do. You actually know it's Texas, Stewart, They're gonna shoot you.
1:07
I'm just saying, if you're like out of state and it starts planning,
1:10
you don't do it. Yes, someone from your Texas citizenship right, No,
1:14
yeah, no, someone from Texas will appear suddenly and shoot you.
1:19
I called bullshit. But okay, anyways, of course, I'm making this
1:23
up, Stuary, what do you that's not what happens. I don't know.
1:27
You're weird. Okay, you mightn't believe that shit. That's why I
1:32
clap every time I want to die. It's like saying like bloody marry in
1:37
the mirror three times. If you don't clap the three times, then like
1:41
Sam Houston shows up. Yes. Anyways, Um where was I Yeah,
1:49
Texas? So anyways, but um, anything we wanted to We wanted to
1:55
say that we are going to Arkansas for a week. Arkansas, Arkans,
2:00
Our our Kansas. We're going to our Kansas for a week, and so
2:05
we're trying to figure out how to not miss a week, to not miss
2:08
a week with the podcast. But we're just warning you it might happen,
2:12
and we apologize in advance. But we're trying to figure it out because both
2:15
of us, like I mean, you guys know we have our most you
2:19
know, we have two small children. We both work full time, and
2:22
it's I travel for work a lots do in everything with that. So anyways,
2:25
we're gonna try to make it happen. But I'm really excited about our
2:29
our Kansas. Tr I just said our Kansas like art Like, we're going
2:34
to Kansas our Arkansas trip. We're going to Bentonville first because part of it
2:39
is a works trip, and then we're going to Eureka Springs and we're gonna
2:44
stay at the Haunted Crescent Hotel, which I'm very excited about. And then
2:47
we're going to Hot Springs, where I'm gonna get bathed by people. I
2:53
did that one time before the Hot Springs baths. It's like the original baths
2:58
where you go to all the things and you get baked in the hot springs
3:00
and you drink the water and you so you've already done this, Yeah I
3:06
want to do it again. Yeah, you don't have to do it.
3:08
You're going to stay back at the Airbnb with the children. Why I go
3:12
relax? Its Well, there was something I wanted to do and you said
3:15
you've already done that. Why do you want to do it again? Okay,
3:16
Well that's you and this is me. I get to repeat things.
3:21
I like, you get to do them one time and then you have to
3:23
then you're done and then shut up about it. Anyway. So yeah,
3:25
we're real excited about going to Arkansas, but might disrupt the podcast for a
3:31
week. But I think we've been doing really good. We've been every week
3:34
for the last since January. We've been doing real good. And you and
3:38
you guys know our track record. We're not that great now. We were
3:39
spotting. You were spotty at best when we started, and then we went
3:45
away for two years two and a half years. But we've been solid.
3:47
I'm surprised that didn't reflect in the reviews. I know people were just like
3:53
still nice about it, but be like, where are they at. I've
3:54
seen some podcasts they get spotty and they get oh they get ripped, they
3:59
get ripped. We're so likable. Yeah, yeah, I am. Anyway,
4:03
anyways, all right, so just Instagram follow us um. Yeah,
4:10
we'll probably post some stuff about our Arkansas trip um Facebook same thing, and
4:15
then we have our patron If you'd like to support the podcast cast just general
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support, I don't know, but if you'd like to support the podcast,
4:25
you can go on there and we have one tier. You get ad free
4:28
early access and we really really appreciate everyone who has supported us so far.
4:32
We're working through the names of people that we have stud Do you have the
4:35
list in front of you? I do have the list? Okay, He's
4:38
going to give us three names and then we're going to keep working through until
4:42
we get to current patrons or new people each time. Well we have Nikki
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r Mary Beth S, and Shannon A. All right, we thank you
4:53
guys so much for your support. We really really appreciate it. And I
4:58
guess without further Ado, let's get into our case out of Texas. Sandra
5:02
Martin was born around nineteen fifty nine. There wasn't a lot of back information
5:06
about Sandra, so that that's all I could garner. You know a lot
5:11
of people don't. I don't even have a nay. So Sandra Martin,
5:15
she was born around nineteen fifty nine, and she would go on to marry
5:18
Charles David Martin and they would make their home in Fort Worth, Texas.
5:23
Now, after marrying Charles and Sandra would have a son and his name was
5:28
CD. Were they called him CD in all the things that I saw in
5:30
the news, Yeah, it was about the or they were ahead of their
5:35
times, calling him compact disc disc in in nineteen eighty one, I think
5:42
his name must have been Charles David and they called him c D for short.
5:46
So around nineteen eighty one they had CD and then they was followed by
5:51
a daughter named Kristen three years later. Now they lived a comfortable lifestyle.
5:56
Charles was a luxury car salesman and he did well at his career. Red
6:00
flag already, car salesman. Come on, now what I'm kidding, Well,
6:04
we just lost all this out. I know, I'm kidding. I
6:06
don't understand why car salesman's have this, Like did they used to be CD
6:12
or I mean, I'll be honest, I've been on a car lot and
6:14
not one of them fuckers comes up and talks to me. I'm guessing because
6:16
I'm they think I'm because I'm a woman, I don't got no money or
6:19
something because I ain't there to yeah, help you out which your car.
6:25
Yeah, I guess. Like I've literally like gone on a car lot and
6:27
nobody even approached me. But we've gone together and they're like, oh,
6:30
look at the let's go over there and talk to these people. Fuckers.
6:35
Anyways, Now, Sandra, she was a nurse, but she would quit
6:40
her job to be a stay at home mom once they had the children.
6:44
Now she wouldn't to spend as much time with their children as she possibly could.
6:46
The couple was happy and they lived a really good life out and for
6:50
worth. Yeah. So when in September of nineteen eighty six, Sandra and
6:55
Charles decide it was time to move to a larger home for their growing family,
7:00
they placed a for sale sign on the front yard of their home on
7:01
Amber Drive. Sandra would show the home two interested buyers as she was home
7:08
with the children all day. And now we're not using an agent, so
7:11
it was a for sale by owner situation because I guess I wanted to save
7:15
on the commission. Yeah, I don't know, maybe it was easier.
7:16
I feel like today for sell by owner to me seems like painting the ass.
7:21
Yeah I don't. I mean yeah, we and plus like you have
7:26
to do all the showing. So this is also a sign to people like,
7:29
hey, we can just walk in and it's going to be the owner.
7:31
There's not gonna be a normally when you go to a house or whatever.
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The people aren't when you're looking for a house, the people aren't even
7:38
there. No, it's just you and the agent. So we've seen cases
7:42
where the agent has been murdered. Remember Beverly Carter, she was the agent.
7:46
She was murdered. But so this puts you in a different situation where
7:48
you're going to have strangers, just you alone with strangers in your home coming
7:53
and looking and seeing how you live and how to break into your house.
7:56
Yeah, sou but that that sign was just blaring or glaring in the blaring,
8:01
glaring in the front yard, something like that. Now. On September
8:07
twenty second, Charles called home to speak to his wife, and his five
8:11
year old son answered the phone and told his father that Sandra was in the
8:15
other room and the door was locked. He didn't call her, Sandra,
8:18
he said, Mommy's in the other room. Yeah. Yeah. A few
8:22
minutes later, Charles called home again. His son again answered the phone and
8:24
stated that Sandra was in the other room and the door was locked. Like
8:28
a five year old just report meeting. They're like, it's locked. The
8:33
door's locked. Now, Charles questioned his son's cd whether anyone had been to
8:41
the house, and he told his father that a man had stopped by to
8:46
look at the house. Charles, beginning to grow concerned, he leaves work
8:50
and heads home. Now, upon arriving at the home, he sees the
8:54
front doors opened, and he immediately knows something is wrong because they never leave
8:58
the door unlocked. Ar goes to the master bedroom and knocks to see if
9:01
Sandra responds. When he hears nothing, he throws his shoulder into the door
9:05
three times and the door breaks open. Inside, he found Sandra on the
9:11
floor beside the bed with duct tape around her head. Now, her hands
9:15
were bound together with duct tape. Her ankles were also bound with duct tape.
9:18
But we're not bound together. There was a blood all over the floor
9:22
in the bed and coming from her nose. Her skirt was pulled up and
9:26
her underwear was pulled down around her right ankle. Charles pulled some of the
9:31
duct tape away from Sandra's nose and called the police. Like he sees,
9:35
you know, he runs over immediately sees his wife in the state and her
9:37
face is covered. Immediately, you're gonna win like Trotto, you know,
9:41
free up that airway so she can start breathing. While Charles is on the
9:45
phone with the police, he realizes he has not seen nor heard his children.
9:50
He tells nine one one that he has to go. He needs to
9:52
find his children. Terrified of what he might find, he starts looking through
9:56
the house. That's the most I would be just couldn't even imagine no,
10:01
and just be a pit in your stomach. Yeah. Well, so he
10:03
makes to the back door and he walks outside. In the backyard, he
10:07
sees both of his children unharmed, so he's relieved for a minute, but
10:11
then he flashes back to his lifeless wife in the master bedroom, and then
10:16
that pit comes back. The paramedics and police arrived and Charles begs them to
10:22
save his wife, but they have to break the news to him that the
10:24
wife is dead. Upon examining the body, they see that Sandra actually died
10:30
from a gunshot wound to the head. They could see where she had been
10:33
shot through the bridge of the nose, and there was also a pillow lying
10:39
next to her that had a bullet hole through it, so the killer had
10:41
used the pillow as a silencer, put it over her face, and then
10:46
shot her. The autopsy also found that Sandra had died from acute cerebral laceration
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and intercranial hemorrhage caused by a gunshot wound to the head. Bruising on her
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thyroid and hemorrhaging within the strapmas of her neck indicated before being shot. That
11:03
Sandra had also been strangled. So this is pretty brutal death of Sandra.
11:07
Yeah, she had been basically tortured. It seems like, yeah, she
11:13
was bound raped. Yeah, and then well we haven't got into that she
11:18
was raped, but it's quite obvious from yes, but the way that she
11:22
was undressed, that's what they determined that she was raped. So when examining
11:26
the crime scene, they found that no items missing, and there was no
11:30
items missing, and the house had no signs of forced entry. They processed
11:33
the home, but they couldn't find any fingerprints belonging to someone outside of the
11:37
home. Now, they knew the killer planned this as they had brought their
11:41
own duct tape, their own razors, and other items that they used to
11:45
do this to Sandra. They believed the motive was the rape and murder based
11:50
on the way Sandra was found, Like who said the bottom of half of
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her body was exposed. Now, Sandra appeared to have been duct taped to
11:56
the bed at some point. And then she also had so much duct tape
12:01
on her face it was almost like a mask. It had been wrapped multiple
12:05
times. I believe there was about twenty feet of duct tape total used on
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her face. Now, the killer had used the duct tape to frighten her
12:13
while he was carrying out his attack. So he's wrapped her face and he's
12:16
doing all the stuff to her strangler and everything like that before he shoots her.
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Now, please quickly piece together that this is someone impersonating a HomeBuyer that
12:26
committed this crime, because, like I said, the boy said, the
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son said that someone came over in to look at the house. Charles was
12:33
devastated by the death of Sandra and finding her in the state that he did.
12:39
He was grieving, but he was also carrying for two small children.
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He explained to his children when they asked where mommy was, where their mother
12:48
was? This is disturbing, folks, and a little bit, Charles said
12:52
that mommy had died and he was going to find them a new mommy,
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just like that. We'll go down to the mommy store and get you a
13:00
new mommy. Yes, mom I mean you'd just say mommy died. You
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don't just say. You don't say. And these are his own words telling
13:07
people this is what he told them, like he and he says it in
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just like the most casually like casual, like this is how you deal with
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the loss of a mother. You just tell the children that she died and
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we're going to go find you a new mommy. You can run down the
13:20
Sears mommy store. Yeah, you don't tell kids that because then they got
13:26
expectations that you're going to find him a new mommy. Well, also,
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it's just weird who just says, I'm going to find you a new mommy.
13:31
The old one was nice, but find a better one. I don't.
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I don't know. Now we're going to get more into Charles as we
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go on those. He's an odd duck. Now, while the children were
13:43
dealing with losing their mother, police needed to interview the only witness to the
13:46
crime, and that would be the five year old CD. Now, this
13:50
is going to be a difficult task for investigators, so they call in a
13:54
specialist who knew how to interview children. They started by establishing whether the child
13:58
knew or understood what lying was and telling the truth, but they asked him
14:05
simple questions. So after this, she began asking him about that day.
14:09
He said a man came and looked at all the rooms and went into the
14:13
bedrooms. He said he had a measuring tape and was measuring all the walls.
14:16
They then went into the master bedroom and closed the door and locked it.
14:22
Now that's the last time that CD saw his mother. He described the
14:26
man certificate of deposit. Yes, he described the man as white, short
14:31
and balding hair and that was combed back. Oh wow, he's just really
14:35
throwing him under the bus. Yeah, it's like get a comb over,
14:37
a short, fat guy with a comb over. He also said that the
14:43
man had hair on his face and said it was a beard. The interviewer
14:46
asked him to show where the beard was on the man's face. He was
14:50
a a doll and he pointed to his lip. So CD had confused the
14:54
words, and the man actually had a mustange. I mean he's five.
14:58
I mean, so we'll let him sly. Yeah, I mean that's why
15:01
they asked him to show it, because they wanted to make sure he understood
15:03
the words he was using. Was what he meant? Now, He described
15:05
a man's clothing, saying that he wore a white suit. He said he
15:09
did not. He's like, it's like the colonel from King Well, the
15:15
colonel had a beard too. Something nobody heard. He wore that white suit.
15:20
Well, he wasn't short and bald him though he was a little taller
15:22
fellow with hair. The colonel was, okay, I was just talking about
15:24
the white suit Stewart, Jesus, he could be like tattoo from the Fantasy
15:28
Island or something. I don't know what that is. Wow. Now he
15:33
said he didn't hear anything coming from the bedroom after they went in, and
15:35
a little bit later the man walked out and told CD and Kristen, your
15:41
mom's washing up and she will be out in a minute. Oh my god.
15:43
Then he left. Just disturbing. That's disturbing on someone. I mean,
15:48
thank god he didn't hurt the children. I mean, we can at
15:50
least be happy for that, but still terrible. Yes, we probably wouldn't
15:56
be doing it if the children were. And yes, that was uncomfortable.
16:00
Laughter people, I laugh when I'm uncomfortable, so you laugh all the time
16:04
around me. I know I'm uncomfortable around too. So, like we said,
16:10
police were really thinking this had to do something with this real estate,
16:14
with the house we sell and everything from based on what the five year old
16:18
said and this for seal sign and everything like that. So they start by
16:22
creating some flyers and passing them out to the local realtors, trying to see
16:27
if they knew anyone matching the description. Now, while awaiting any leads from
16:33
those flyers, they did interview some neighbors and one said that they noticed a
16:37
car in the driveway that day. They did not know the type, but
16:40
said it was a luxury brand. Now police turn back to Charles, as
16:44
they know he was a luxury car salesman and he would have access to dozens
16:48
of high end vehicles. I mean, I think they can just like a
16:52
lot of I don't know, I've never been a car salesman, but I
16:55
think you can kind of like borrow the cars. I doubt it highly okay,
16:59
but anyway, there's a thing though, I mean, he could take
17:02
one off driving and say he's taken it with a I mean, this is
17:04
nineteen eighty six. I mean, they don't try. They don't know.
17:07
We're all sketchy mofos out here. They'll just let somebody salesman take off with
17:14
the car and za, oh, I'm chowing to a client or whatever.
17:15
So they bring Charles in for an interview. Police began by asking Charles about
17:22
the state of his marriage, and he immediately admits that he did it.
17:27
Now did her more like? No, not even her he had missed a
17:30
cheating on Sandra. Not only did he cheat on Sandra, but if cheating
17:36
was an Olympic sport, man would have won gold. If it was a
17:40
kingdom, he would have been king of the kingdom of cheating. And just
17:45
the year leading up to Sandra's murder, he had had affairs with ten different
17:48
women. Now, despite these affairs, he's not probably even home then,
17:56
so I mean, well he's that's probably why he's got to work late to
17:59
say year old and a two year old and a wife at home and he
18:03
just m I a hooking up with carrying on ten different affairs, not all
18:07
at one time. I don't think. I don't know. Do you think
18:11
he got time for that? I don't know what he does. But he
18:14
admitted, I mean he and the way he interviewed about this, like he
18:17
does interviews about this and it's just like he's telling them like he made the
18:21
bed that morning or something like just casual. I had ten affairs, but
18:26
I loved my wife. I loved her. I knew a fella liked that
18:30
one time. Oh you did? Ye? He was He was a strange,
18:33
odd duck. He was always trying to meet other women, and he's
18:37
like, yeah, my wife, I love her so much and she's the
18:38
best I've ever been with him, Like, well, why are you trying
18:41
to cheat on her all the time? He's like, I don't know.
18:45
He was a weird fellow. Yeah, he ended up trying to well,
18:51
I'm gonna put a his stuff out there. But what did he do?
18:55
He just lea was hanging like, well, he ended up doing his wife's
18:59
sister, Oh god, and then got found out and then things didn't go
19:03
well. He's talking about the first family here anyways, all right, go
19:15
on for how where I was. Well, this put him on the top
19:22
of the suspect list for police, as you might imagine. So they're beginning
19:26
to think that Charles just wanted out of his marriage. But Charles's alibi is
19:30
checking out that he was at the dealership at the time of the murder.
19:33
They also knew they had a description of the man from the son CD and
19:38
he did not describe his own father. Yeah, he would have said,
19:41
well, dad came home a white colonel, Colonel Sanders and chicking all over
19:45
the suit, wiping some KFCOF on his pants, and murdered mom. Yeah.
19:52
So but that the kid didn't say that. So they're thinking maybe he
19:56
hired Colonel Sanders come by and killed a wife. Colonel Sanders with back home
20:00
over and no goatee. Yeah, a poor man's Colonel Sanders, if you
20:03
will. So they continue to ask Charles questions and finally they finally asked him
20:08
to take a polygraph test, to which he agrees dummy. One of the
20:14
questions was did you help plan your wife's murder? And the results for that
20:18
particular question were inconclusive. However, he passed all the other questions. In
20:25
the end, the polygraph examiner determined that he was telling the truth and was
20:29
not involved with his wife's murder, but he thought that Charles might have some
20:33
more knowledge on the situation. Yeah, so I don't know how. I
20:37
guess maybe not directly involved in terms of like he did it. But they're
20:41
saying Charles, Charles isn't being completely honest with us about this. That's why
20:48
you never take a polygraphs. At a dead end with Charles, they go
20:55
back to the evidence at the crime scene. Now, one of the biggest
20:59
piece of evidence that they were hoping to get some prints off of was that
21:03
tape wrapped around Sandra's face because I said, there was no other fingerprints in
21:06
the house that they could find. The tape was wrapped in three layers,
21:10
one section around the eyes, one section or over the mouth and nose,
21:14
and like I said, there was about twenty feet of tape wrapped on her
21:15
face total. I mean, it's just like horrific. They sent the tape
21:19
off to be tested, but no prints were recovered on the outer smooth portion
21:25
of the tape. Now, the crime lab was unable to pull the tape
21:27
apart to check the sticky portions of the tape that were layered, so the
21:32
in between sto Now the tape was sent back to Fort Worth Police. They
21:37
determined. They were like this detective was determined. He's like, I know,
21:41
there's got to be something in this sticky part, especially the sticky part.
21:44
I mean, it's like that's like the best fingerprints right there. It's
21:47
actually like pulling great prints. So he's determined to examine the sticky sections in
21:52
between, and so he came up with a brilliant ideal to separate the tape
21:56
without destroying the evidence, which they did this by freezing the tape. Freezing
22:00
the duct tape and after it was frozen, they were able to easily pull
22:06
apart the tape and this didn't destroy the fingerprints for anything in between, and
22:11
they were actually able to obtain six fingerprints on the tape. So whoever these
22:15
prints belong to, they knew was their killer. So they first checked the
22:19
prints against Charles and it was not a match. So they ran the prints
22:23
in the system for the fort Worth area and there was no match. Because
22:26
this is nineteen eighty six, they don't have these huge they just have the
22:30
local one. It didn't match anybody in their system in fort Worth, and
22:33
that's kind of where they had to. It kind of went to a dead
22:37
end with the fingerprint situation. Police continue to look for other leads through the
22:44
real estate market, but they continue to come back to Charles. They believe
22:48
that he knows more than he is saying. After all, his and Sandra's
22:52
marriage was pretty terrible, despite what Charles says, I mean, we all
22:56
know the husband's always the one who did it. And then also when where
23:00
the marriage is this bad? Like you can't yeah, when the marriage there's
23:03
ten affairs, Come on, why is it that bad? Why is that
23:06
that bad? Stewart, he just loves the ladies, okay, and the
23:10
ladies love him. I don't know why I talked. Well, the pictures
23:14
of him back in the day he looked okay, but the current photo,
23:18
current situation, that did not age well. There's a reason why he is
23:23
the number one car salesman of the month every month of every year. He's
23:27
a smooth talking fella. God, I just didn't know where you're gonna go
23:33
with that. You were hoping it wasn't too bad. Yeah, they know
23:37
you are not cheating on your wife with ten different women and having a happy
23:41
marriage. On top of the admitted affairs, they also had neighbors and friends
23:47
coming forward saying that Sandra was a different person when she was around Charles.
23:51
She was much more reserved and he seemed to be controlling of her. Now,
23:55
see Charles whenever he was on the I watched the episode with him when
24:00
he did his interview or whatever, and he does give off this like he
24:06
seems he does seems off. There's something off about him, you know,
24:10
a little oil. Yeah, it's just yeah, you're just you feel like
24:14
you need to take a shower after you talk to him. Now, as
24:17
you can imagine, Charles was quickly losing friends as suspicious suspicious suspicions stute,
24:23
I was reading the word written on the paper and it says suspicious. Not
24:27
okay, well you know what, I'm around him swirl. I know you
24:30
think I'm perfect everybody, but I'm not. I don't start. Despite all
24:37
of this, no evidence led to Charles, and police eventually had to officially
24:41
dismiss him as a suspect, which nobody wanted to because he's such a schevy
24:45
guy, but they had to. It's like, okay, we've tried.
24:49
We thought we could get him. Now. Though Charles and his family were
24:53
relieved, they still did not know who had killed Sandra. Now years passed
24:59
by with no new information on Sanders murder. Sanders children were growing up.
25:03
Charles remarried and found them a new mommy, found them a new mommy,
25:07
and they moved on with their lives. I mean they had to. I
25:10
mean, you can't just sit in this for as long as they had to
25:12
and fester in it. Not to mention the children were five and two,
25:17
and as much as like it's sad that their mother died, they were very
25:22
young. So if he did find them a new mommy, they probably connected
25:26
with new mommy. Hopefully he just found one new mommy and multiple new mommies.
25:30
We don't know. So the case to oh yeah, yeah, with
25:36
ten women probably you know, they say you you lose them? How you
25:40
got him do? That's what we learned on on vander Pump rules. You
25:44
lose them? How you got him Arianna? And don't you come at me
25:47
because we all know that even though Kristen and Tom were having serious problems,
25:52
we all know that Arianna was despite what they say, was cheating with Tom
26:00
whenever he was technically still with Kristen. Anyways, who's who are they saying
26:06
differently? What do you mean but people? People? Because people just like
26:10
Arianna so much and they feel bad for which I do too. She's with
26:12
him, But the fact is is that she was they should have Kristen,
26:17
yeah, at the very beginning, and now she's been cheated on by So
26:22
that's why they say you lose them? How you got those are? That's
26:26
my opinion on it might be CONTROVERSI yeah, So anyway, so the case
26:32
it officially goes cold and was filed away in the cold case unit of the
26:36
Fort Worth Police Department. Now, however, over the years the fingerprints were
26:40
run in the Texas Department of Public Safety, which is the t T T
26:45
DPS Automatic Fingerprint System which is AFIS. And this was done six separate times
26:52
and yielded no results. So as the years are going, they're getting these
26:55
databases started, They're like, we'll just keep probably standard procedure any cold case
26:59
files with fingerprints, you just run him through. Now, in two thousand
27:03
and nine, twenty three years after the murder of Sandra, the case would
27:07
be reopened by a cold case detective in Fort Worth. Now the case caught
27:11
the detective's eye. His name was Detective Jose Hernandez, who saw the fingerprint
27:15
evidence and felt that this was enough information to find the killer. He's like,
27:21
we've got we got these fingerprints, we know this person he's he had
27:23
like, there's no way someone just murders a woman, rapes and murders a
27:27
woman and never does anything else in their entire life, Like this is hes
27:30
gotta be on file somewhere. Yeah and so and he had also just solved
27:36
a case similar like this. He had really dug into it with the fingerprints
27:38
and went to salt a cold case. So he was he was filmed like
27:41
I can do this, So he submits the fingerprints to a FIS again,
27:45
aphis is that what they call it? Oh? Is that one? Wow?
27:56
Call you self crude? True crime APIs as well as I'm a casual
28:03
listeners, a casual watcher now as well as to FBI the FBI's fingerprint database.
28:10
Now no matches or in the FBI database. Well, no, I
28:14
don't think they're no, not searchable, Stu, my finger No, they're
28:18
not searchable though. Everybody's fingerprints are on the file. Because when you get
28:23
your driver's license, you have to do your fingerprints. No you don't you
28:26
do that's stupid. No you don't. I'm pretty sure you do. No,
28:30
yeah, no, yes, no, what I've done my finger Okay,
28:33
Well, when you go get your TSA thing, you have to do
28:36
your fingerprints. Yeah, whenever. Okay, but I'm saying nobody, but
28:40
I'm not concealed carry permit. I had to get them. When I got
28:41
some licenses, I had to get them done. So I've been searched by
28:45
the FBI. I understand that. But your fingerprints don't go on the same
28:48
database for them to be able to search you for criminal activity. They only
28:52
have a certain database for people who have who committed crimes. So you're saying
28:56
that through my prints after they've checked the No, I'm sure they're still there.
29:00
I'm just saying it's illegal to search those databases that they have, because
29:04
otherwise they have because otherwise they'd have everybody's fingerprints, because everybody who's gone to
29:08
TSA or done anything, unless you're living off the grid, you've done your
29:11
fingerprints somewhere, but you're not in the same database as a criminal. And
29:17
yes, I understand that they have all those fingerprints, and they probably could
29:19
still run them, but for some reason they don't. Maybe they should.
29:22
I don't know, but that's probably a whole nother like, uh, probably,
29:30
how do we work on, how do we work how do we work
29:33
around because well, now this is the person, but we can't tell people
29:36
that we search these prints. Yea, yeah, I don't trust them bastards.
29:41
Okay, well now if you're listening, all right, So we're gonna
29:47
cut that off before that goes off on the deep end and we end up
29:49
being arrested. So anyway, so, like I said, he runs the
29:53
fingerprints not found in any of these databases. So Hernandez then decided to physically
29:57
take the prints to the T T T DPS's Latent Print Section in Austin.
30:04
I don't know why taking him in person. I don't know why he did
30:11
this. It wasn't explained in the court documents. It even is. It
30:14
even says in the court documents he was going to go on the stand to
30:18
explain why he did this, but for some reason, the defense didn't want
30:21
him to or call or wanted it whatever the word is for wanted it,
30:26
um not quieted, stricken stricken, Yeah, he didn't or not not stricken
30:32
from the record because he didn't get a chance to say it. They just
30:33
wanted to suppress that. They wanted to suppress that for some reason because they
30:37
looked bad on the defense. I mean, I don't really know. But
30:41
so he takes it in person, and about three weeks later that lab actually
30:45
gives him a name, and the name is Jay Thayer Williams now along with
30:48
some other information. They don't go into detail, like I said, drink,
30:53
they don't go into to detail about why this is he got this information
30:59
or this might be your secret. I don't know, but they he tells
31:04
him that they need to contact the leads him to the Temple Police Department,
31:08
which is Temple, Texas. Now, Horandez then travels to Temple, where
31:14
he met with that police department's records custodian Skip Carmouch, which I think it's
31:18
Carmucci or Carmouch. Now, I don't know Skip Carmucci. I'm gonna go
31:22
with Carmarcci because that's like the best Carmucci up in the Northeast, but down
31:27
in Texas, I don't know what he might be a transplant from Jersey.
31:32
Anyways, Skip Carmucci is I mean, you've got to be a police officer.
31:34
You can't really any other to be a gangster. Yeah, So from
31:41
Carmucci, Hernandez obtained a fingerprint card containing William's fingerprints collected in connection with his
31:48
nineteen eighty three arrest in Temple for driving with a suspended license. Now,
31:53
Hernandez then drove back to Fort Worth and submitted the Temple fingerprint card to the
31:57
Fort Worth Police Department Crime Labs latent print Examiner. So he's got He went
32:02
to Austin. He somehow got this information from by going up, showing up
32:07
in person, and sending in the stuff they got hit. This name sends
32:12
him to Temple, Texas. He gets the actual fingerprints from this arrest for
32:16
the suspended license, and I mean it had to be in the system somehow,
32:22
his prints. I mean for driving with a suspended license. That's a
32:27
fingerprintable offense. I guess that you're gonna be put in this database. I
32:30
don't know why they were running it, and it wasn't getting any any hits
32:34
until he took it something. All right, listen, people, we are
32:42
not crime scene technicians or forensic scientists, so you don't say the Let's just
32:47
say the show I watched on this really glossed over this whole situation. But
32:52
the court documents were had all this information in it, and even it was
32:57
a little bit unclear in the court documents. So it specifically stated we do
33:02
not know why he went in person and how he obtained or what information he
33:07
obtained. But for some reason, the defense did not want this this guy
33:12
on the stand to talk about how he got this. I don't know why,
33:15
because if I was the defense and they got it in a wrong way,
33:16
that would be able to throw out the whole case. So yeah,
33:20
so I must have been even more damning to mister. Well, yeah,
33:23
I'm not yeah, so no clarity, but either way, they got the
33:27
fingerprints and they're waiting on the crime LAMB. Now, while they're awaiting the
33:31
results from Fort Worth PD crime LAMB, they began to look into Williams and
33:37
they're surprised to find that he had only ever been arrested for the suspended license.
33:42
To seem odd to police that it was not for a violent crime or
33:45
something more serious. Like I said, we don't just go and kill someone
33:50
and not do anything else. Ever, so evidently he has done things just
33:53
not gotten caught. Yea other than a suspended license. However, when they
33:58
look further into his past and career, it all started coming together. Williams
34:01
had worked as a real estate agent for twenty years, and at the time
34:06
of Sandra's murder, he was working in the Fort Worth area, So there's
34:09
their connection. They're like, okay, this is starting to make sense now.
34:13
Now they received those lab results back on the fingerprints and it was a
34:16
definite match. Now, they then call in the Martin family because they wanted
34:21
to make sure. I mean, this family has already been through enough enough.
34:22
It's been twenty three years. They haven't heard anything about this. They
34:25
just know that occasionally they send the fingerprints off, but unless there's no news
34:30
means they didn't find anybody. So they're like, we have our guys.
34:35
So they call in the Martin family and they're just completely shocked. I mean
34:37
they had given up hope completely that this was ever going to be solved.
34:40
I mean they've moved on with their lives. Her children have had children,
34:46
Like we said, they found new mommy, Like everything's moved forward. So
34:52
they bring in Cede, Kristen and Charles and they show the picture. Well,
34:55
Charles had never seen this guy before. He said he was a bootleg
35:00
KFC guy. But whatever Colonel's inners, No, he didn't say that anyways,
35:05
but he had never seen him. Kristen obviously she was two. She
35:07
didn't see it. But CD he sees the picture and it just all comes
35:10
like flashing back. Like he his original description of the guy was like spot
35:15
on with what this guy looked like back in the day. In April a
35:20
two thousand nine, police arrived at Williams home near the fifty seven hundred block
35:24
of Brushy Creek Lane in North Dallas. Williams came to the door with no
35:29
issue, and he didn't seem surprised he was being arrested for some reason.
35:32
I'd be surprised somebody can like dude, during'd be like me, mean,
35:37
what what did I do? Now? The only thing he said was
35:42
letting me get in my shoes. Williams was interviewed by police, but he
35:45
wasn't emitted to nothing without a confession. That began building a case against Williams,
35:52
and it would have to be built on only those fingerprints, since Williams
35:55
had no criminal past and did not appear to have done this type of thing
35:59
again. After Sandra, Williams was held on five hundred thousand dollars bail.
36:05
Now the case would go to trial in June of twenty eleven, and now,
36:07
if convicted, Williams would face an automatic life imprisonment sentence, as the
36:14
state did not seek the death penalty, which I understand why they didn't because,
36:17
like said, they they'll probably have a harder time getting people to be
36:21
on board if they know the death penalty is on the table. Now,
36:24
the prosecution focused on the fingerprint evidence and how there was no way they could
36:29
be on you know, on the in between layers of the duct tape without
36:31
him having committed the crime, Like, there's no way those are getting there.
36:36
In total, there were ten specific ridge marks that matched up with Williams
36:39
Prince. Now, the prosecution believed that Williams targeted Sandra, that he had
36:44
already gone by there, he knew she was home alone with these children.
36:47
He'd gone by there one time before and then targeted her and went back to
36:52
attack her, like made a plan because remember he had the duct tape and
36:55
everything with him, so this was this was definitely a thought out situation.
37:00
Now, the defense, they argued that the evidence was not properly properly handled.
37:06
This is the whole situation with the duct tape being frozen and pulled apart,
37:09
and then twenty three years and getting all this stuff. They're saying just
37:14
wasn't properly maintained. This isn't good evidence and so therefore should not not even
37:19
be allowed. They are also argued that for it to be one hundred percent
37:23
match, the whole fingerprint should match up, not just ten specific ridges,
37:28
which I when they said, when the defense attorney came on there and argued
37:30
that I can see what they're talking about. For that whole fingerprint, there's
37:35
only ten ridges that match up to Williams, and they're saying, if it's
37:40
one hundred percent match, why isn't one hundred percent of the fingerprint good?
37:45
They didn't get into what the odds are of, like, what are the
37:49
odds that this person, you know, like DNA and stuff like that.
37:52
They tell you the odds that it's such and such. I don't know what
37:54
the odds are that it's somebody else. If there's ten ridges that match up,
37:59
maybe there's somebody listens that's a forensic scientist. I don't know, fingerprint
38:02
expert. Yes, so they wanted to. They argued on the for who
38:08
could have murdered Sandra was that it was Charles Martin who wanted out of this
38:14
marriage. He wanted her dad, he wanted to be off with his mistresses,
38:17
he wanted to find new mommy and all that stuff. So they did
38:21
they explain if Charles's ten ridges match perfectly with the ones that they found on
38:25
the in between tape. No, they didn't match. They didn't. He
38:30
didn't didn't match at all. Yeah, So this is where these defense lawyers
38:34
get me where they're going to just throw some red Harrying out there and just
38:37
be like but they're saying it could he probably hired someone who it is.
38:43
No. We all we know Charles didn't get his U fucking slimy car salesman
38:49
hands dirty with this. He called if he was going to do what he
38:51
called somebody in. But they're saying that I'm torn on this one. I'm
38:55
sure that the ten Ridges is very like, there's no way it could be
38:59
anybody else else. I'm sure I just didn't find that information. So that's
39:04
what I'm kind of like. I'm I don't with the defense, like maybe
39:07
and the fact that this guy hasn't done anything anything like that, but it
39:09
was odd that he didn't ask any questions why he never got caught. Yeah,
39:15
I mean Jeffrey Dahmer and caught until he was caught Stewart, he had
39:21
multiple dead bodies into his apartment. His neighbors were just like, oh,
39:24
that's just old crazy jeff. He just yeah, but he didn't have a
39:29
bunch of offenses. Okay, but it doesn't matter he had he had.
39:32
I'm saying he got away with everything until he didn't get away with everything.
39:36
Okay, Well, they have this guy's fingerprints on file and they know about
39:39
him, and we'll talk about it, but they continue to try to see
39:42
if he well, if they if he got away, if he didn't leave
39:45
finger prints at other crime scenes. Okay, well Jeffrey Dahmer left like penises
39:49
at his home, so a crime scene, he had evidence? There was
39:59
no no, what aren't that was a stupid what are the crime scenes were
40:05
there besides his apartment? Well he picked him up in bars. But they
40:10
have the guy, They have the Williams guy. They have his home.
40:15
They could have they could. I'm sure they searched. Anyways, maybe he
40:20
was slack. Now the trial did last move on from that stupid argument that
40:25
all you were like, can you be fast forward? Fast forward? Can
40:29
you take that off audio? We did, We took it off and continued
40:32
for quite some time arguing. Now, the trial last for four weeks,
40:37
and after just two hours of deliberation, the jury found Williams guilty of murder.
40:43
He was sentenced to life in prison. He did appeal a conviction,
40:46
but that was denied. Police continue to look into Williams to see if he
40:51
was connected to any other unsolved murders. Currently, they have found no other
40:55
crimes they believe he is responsible for. Yes, and I don't know I
41:00
try to figure out where he was because he was sixty six at the time
41:04
that he got put in prison, so today that would be what was that
41:08
twelve years ago, he'd be seventy eight. I don't know. I looked
41:12
him up. I try to see where he was at. He wasn't in
41:14
the prison records. I don't know if he was he died. Yeah,
41:19
I don't think he had any rewards waiting. But um, yeah, I
41:23
don't know where he's at, if he's dead or if he got released in
41:28
this outside of our home right now. And you think we'd be worried about
41:31
my fans, No, because I just was talking about how I don't know
41:35
if he did it right. Well he was shouldn't be outside yet. Oh,
41:39
this is true. But when it does, he'll just be coming after
41:43
you. He'll leave me alone, you think, so, uh godspeed?
41:47
Anyways? All right? So any oh you gotta y'all need Jesus, don't
41:53
I have one? Every time we recorded this, and then we have to
41:55
stop and then we have to go find one, and then you have to
41:59
have one in and then so we're gonna go do that right now. Well,
42:04
before we get in, I would like to add something I would like
42:07
to add something. And I know nobody cares about this because it's not true
42:10
crime related or to this story or anything. But I know I said,
42:15
like Ariana, like, hey, you you lose them? How you got
42:17
him? That's the same thing. I don't I want to. I'm not.
42:20
I'm not just like shaming like Ariana and everything with that. That's also
42:24
what happened with Lala. She got she was the other woman with Randall and
42:30
then he cheated on her, and so you lose him like you got him.
42:34
So but I love Laala and Arianna. So I like them both there,
42:38
you know. Yeah, but I'm just saying you can't love them.
42:43
Yeah, you would love them. They're like really really hot, so you
42:46
would definitely at least enjoy looking at them. I wouldst them. Yes,
42:52
you probably don't want to hear what's coming out of their mouth. Probably not
42:57
anyways, Okay, so you're ready. I don't want to hear him about
42:59
this. Yeah, you don't want to hear about this, but you're okay.
43:01
Whenever you walk in and you see them all in like whatever, and
43:07
Lola's running around topless and stuff, but it's blurred out though. Yeah,
43:10
so that How does that help me? I don't know. How does that
43:15
help me? I don't know? All right, nothing for the bank,
43:17
No Stewart, that's wrong with you? Oh my god, people are gonna
43:22
think I'm married to an asshole. Anyways, Go all right? Florida not
43:30
Florida sex toys. You know who's from Florida, Jacks Taylor. Anyways,
43:36
go on. Used to help chase off arm robber. Is this the end
43:44
of it? Florida? Not in Florida at San Bernardino shop? Wrong?
43:51
You are what? Oh San Bernardino, that's California. Why yes, it
43:54
is Thursday, December fifty. They are a bunch of freaks out there,
43:58
so twenty six team San Bernardino, California. Too. Feisty employees at a
44:04
San Bernardino sex shop bought off an armed robber, yelling at him and throwing
44:10
sex toyst at chase him out of the store, where he got no money.
44:15
The attempted robbery, caught on surveillance video, happened Wednesday around ninety five
44:20
pm, just before closing at Lotions and Lease. A man walked in the
44:28
Lotions and tissue. That's disgusting, puts the lotion. A man walked in
44:35
with his face covered, pointing at what appeared to be a gun. At
44:38
the employees store imploded love gun store employee quotation marks, aiming, I guess
44:52
we're not handing out real names. I guess she got a stripper name at
44:54
the sex store. Said she wasn't scared, she was convinced the was fake,
45:00
and she was having none of it. With the gun. Then this
45:04
is what she's saying with the gun he walked in. I just thought he
45:07
was trying to be funny to scare, as she said. But they've probably
45:12
seen some things that leather and lace or whatever the fuck it's called lotion and
45:15
lace. They've seen some things. They probably had. Weird crap happen all
45:21
the time. Yeah, when the police there's a guy corner with his pants
45:24
down. Yeahthing that happened if the bookstore worked. I think I've told this
45:28
story before. Probably, Yeah, we heard the Kelly Clarkson's story a hundred
45:31
times. Whatever. They're just jealous anyway, would us because it wasn't Gwen
45:37
Stefani, it was Kelly Clarkson. But then I saw the gun and it
45:42
was like, really, I don't have time for this. I have bigger
45:45
dildos in the back to back. Yes, So she started yelling at him
45:49
and at one point he grabbed quote Amy, that's when the co worker at
45:53
the store starting throwing sex toys at him. Does it say which types?
45:58
Um, I'm sure it was dildo's. Yeah. Eventually he fled the store
46:02
empty handed. I think he was a coward, said the stores other employee,
46:07
coming in here trying to get over on two females and not realizing that
46:10
we're pretty feisty. Police release surveillance video of the robbery. Hey, you're
46:15
no wallflower if you're working at a sex shop. No, you've done.
46:19
You got to deal with some creepy motherfucker. Yeah, you got to be
46:22
on your on it, like you're not putting up with nothing. Got weirdos
46:29
coming there and buying videos or whatever they were and then hitting on you.
46:31
You know, they're hitting like they're there's no there. And then there's the
46:37
creepy guys that are like hitting on them and come in there every probably like
46:39
similar to the guys that go and like hit all women at like Hooters and
46:44
come and bring them flowers every week and stuff. Oh yeah, there was
46:46
that one guy. When we want to eat at Hooter Twins Twin Peaks brought.
46:51
No, the Hooters girls have gone downhill quite a bit. I would
46:53
say, well, you're just shitting on everybody. Thank god. Damn,
46:59
Twin Peaks were still they was still new in town. It was like after
47:02
they opened and Twin Peaks actually has like good food or whatever. So we
47:06
went there Cootery Board. Yeah, it was like really good and they have
47:09
like a really good salad and that we had that bison chili or whatever.
47:15
Yeah, it was good. But there was a guy there, like this
47:16
old dude. He's like coming in these pretty young girls. There was the
47:22
guys that taking the pictures with them, and then there's a guy that's bringing
47:24
in the flowers and stuff, and it's like it was just like, dude,
47:29
this is the Twin Peaks. It's not a strip club. Go to
47:30
the strip club. If you pay a little lecture, you might get something
47:34
to go, get you a dance in the in the private room in the
47:37
Champagny room. So anyway back to Sam Bernardino. Sam Bernardino police say they
47:45
generally recommend people don't confront arm robbers. They also released surveillance video of the
47:51
robbery, including images of the suspect outside the store with his face getting dick
47:55
slapped. Am I allowed to say that? All right, we're gonna cut
48:06
that. We had to cut that all because that went off the rails Again,
48:10
Sue said something highly inappropriate, even more so than what I just said.
48:15
So we apologize kind of. Anyways, all right? Is that instant?
48:20
That is it? All right? So we thank you for listening.
48:22
The other thing, I act keep forgetting to mention and we have seen a
48:24
drop off and we guys, we guys got to pick it up. The
48:27
reviews. We need you guys to review us five stars only. We don't
48:30
want to hear about how we suck. Um. If you're going to tell
48:32
us that we suck, right us five stars. If you're gonna tell us
48:36
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48:39
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48:44
we know our old audio. Su anyways, check out the Patreon,
48:47
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48:52
Biber one say by Stu superstitious mind. Nothing else is working and my
49:07
hand is really hurting and I'm sick. It's working back my cant