Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: An Interview with Andrew Hinkelman and Michael A Forman, Professional Speaker

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Networking Unleashed: An Interview with Andrew Hinkelman and Michael A Forman, Professional Speaker · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

• 0:14
  Welcome back to Networking Unleashed, Building
• 0:18
  Profitable Connections. I'm your host, Michael
• 0:21
  Foreman, and today we're diving deep into one
• 0:24
  of the most overlooked truths in business networking.
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  You can't connect profitably if you can't connect
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  authentically. In a world of constant noise,
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  digital distractions, and AI generated everything,
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  how do we keep our humanity front and center?
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  How do we actually listen, not just hear, to
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  people who are trying to build relationships
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  with? My guest today has built his work around
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  identity, authenticity, and empathy, the real
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  foundations of connection. If you've ever felt
• 1:03
  like networking has become the mechanical or
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  shallow, this conversation is your reset button.
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  So buckle up, buttercup. This one's about stripping
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  away the filters, turning it to what matters,
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  and rediscovering what it means to truly connect.
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  I would like to introduce my guest today to my
• 1:25
  wonderful podcast, Andrew Hinkleman, and he is
• 1:29
  a professional in everything I just said. Andrew,
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  welcome to the podcast, and why don't you give
• 1:35
  us a little bit about your background? Thank
• 1:38
  you, Michael. Really appreciate you having me.
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  I am honored to be here, and I would love to
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  make sure to impart a few tips and tricks along
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  the way. But first, my background. I came up
• 1:54
  through IT organizations, driving technical teams,
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  went to school at University of Washington out
• 2:01
  here in Seattle, and did my engineering degree
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  and master's degree there. I wound up at Microsoft
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  for a while and for a long time, that was, that's
• 2:12
  a tradition here. It's become Amazon lately,
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  but it used to be a tradition to at least do
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  a little bit of time at Microsoft. Done a lot
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  of consulting work. I found myself a little bit
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  at a transition, wondering what was next for
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  me. I got into more and more technical roles
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  along the way, more leadership roles, and eventually
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  landed at a financial services company where
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  I worked my way into a chief technology officer
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  role. This was a global asset manager. offices
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  in London, Singapore, Sydney, and had about 150
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  people in my organization at the time, and really
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  found that it was the people along the way, watching
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  people develop, helping people develop, and really
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  getting them to the point where they were able
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  to blossom and shine in their careers. And those
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  were the things that really moved me, not all
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  the meetings and the IT governance. and the bureaucracy
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  and all those kinds of things. Wound up burning
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  out, getting really tired of the routine and
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  went into an executive coaching program. So today
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  I'm six years into building my executive coaching
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  business. I primarily work with tech CEOs, chief
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  technology officers, a lot of very senior leaders
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  and founders. on building their human skills.
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  And by that, how do they relate to people? How
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  do they really, truly connect with others? Sounds
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  great. That's quite an extensive background.
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  Okay. So listen, I've developed about 10 questions
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  and I'm going to hit you with them. If we go
• 4:00
  off script a little bit, that's all right. Feel
• 4:02
  free. This is just a conversation between you
• 4:04
  and me. Great. In a world where everyone is curating
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  their online identity, how can professionals
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  reconnect with who they really are and lead with
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  authenticity when networking? It's a great question.
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  With all of the AI written posts and everything,
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  it's funny. Here now, people purposely putting
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  in... spelling mistakes and misspellings. The
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  big giveaway for a while was like the em dash.
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  That was the thing that everyone joked around,
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  right? And now people are purposely putting in
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  mistakes. And I think that's a little window
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  into who we are as humans, right? We're not this
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  perfect political presentation of a human being.
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  And the people that are that way. We don't connect
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  with, right? We don't feel a warmth. We don't
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  feel like they know us so that we can get to
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  know them. So I really feel like one of the keys
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  here is allowing yourself to make mistakes and
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  being okay with it. But you really have to get
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  to that point yourself where you don't feel like
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  you always have to be on or you always have to
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  be super professional. People like them. So it's
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  an amazing concept. They're not looking for you
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  to be perfect. That's so true. And I'm all about
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  networking communication. I have networking groups.
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  I coach people on networking. I go and I do workshops
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  for people. And one thing I'm always trying to
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  have them do, and that's be their authentic self.
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  Don't be afraid to make a mistake. If you make
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  a mistake, own it. Own it, laugh about it, move
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  on. Because everybody does it. Everybody makes
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  me laugh. You don't want to be as professional.
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  This is who I am. But you want to be, because
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  you're more personable. When you're more personable,
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  that wall between you and your supposed client
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  is coming down, right? And that level of trust
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  is increasing. So it just makes a better conversation.
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  A stronger connection, for sure. Good, good.
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  What's getting in the way of people forming real
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  connections today? Is it fear? Is it fear of
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  rejection, digital noise, or simply forgetting
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  how to be human? I want to suggest something
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  that for a lot of us, especially in business
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  organizations, the corporate world, a lot of
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  us were not very good. at connecting with people,
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  being ourselves. A lot of it was, hey, we go
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  to college and we learn something and we're trying
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  to fit in and we think we want to be this person
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  or this role. And then there's a lot of learning
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  and a lot of people are just uncomfortable around
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  people and maybe they don't learn that along
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  the way. They don't learn how to better connect
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  with people. And then we introduce a lot of distraction.
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  So in a lot of ways, the past, say, 10, 15 years
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  have been a huge experiment with phones and social
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  media and everything. So now you have a lot of
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  people who wanted to be something when they went
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  to college. They maybe didn't learn human skills
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  or how to relate to people along the way. And
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  now you introduce this whole world of digital
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  distraction. and alerts and notifications. And
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  we're all, even those of us, even people like
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  me who think I don't do that, I do it. We all
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  do it. We're all swimming in the pool. And I
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  think that becomes a real problem for people
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  because they didn't have a baseline set of skills
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  and now they're constantly not present in the
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  moment. And if you're not present in the moment
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  and paying attention, you're never going to connect
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  with other people. I can't agree with you more.
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  Everything you just said is so impactful of the
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  person just getting out and saying, who am I?
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  Who are you? What is everything? Because there's
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  so much. Listen, I was in the Air Force. I was
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  a police officer. I went through basic training.
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  I went through the police academy. I went through
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  something called air -based ground defense. They
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  taught me everything how to be a cop. And when
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  I got to my first duty station, the sergeant
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  looked at me and said, okay, you went through
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  everything? Yes. Forget it. Because now we're
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  going to teach you. And that's where my true
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  teaching began. It's something to be taught in
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  school. But I think that's missing now in high
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  schools and colleges, how to conduct yourself
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  with another person. That's being your authentic
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  self, being good to be able to connect with them.
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  Don't just go and party and everything else.
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  You have to really learn how to, because in today's
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  environment, when you leave school and everything,
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  you're like faced with all of this. Oh yeah.
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  And then what do you, then what do you do? And
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  I digress. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And one thing
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  I'll add there, Michael, is that there are people
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  who get this, what you and I are talking about.
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  It's not everyone staring at their phone when
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  they feel awkward in a group of people. There
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  are people who get it and they are doing it.
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  And they're the ones that are making meaningful
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  connections. They're the ones that don't have
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  to upload their resume to a bunch of companies
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  when they want to change jobs because people
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  know them and like them and trust them. Absolutely.
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  Absolutely. I couldn't have said it better myself.
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  You're doing great. Okay. So let's do a little
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  bit listening and hearing and active listening.
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  You talk about the difference between listening
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  and active listening. How do you define the difference
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  in today's distraction? A lot of times we think
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  we're listening and there's this line that was
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  made famous in Pulp Fiction about whether you're
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  listening or waiting to talk. Exactly. Most of
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  us are waiting to talk. Real active listening
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  is where you're both in the content of the conversation,
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  but you're also in what might be called metacommunication,
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  metacognition. why is this story coming up and
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  why is it coming up now? What's the story behind
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  the story? Is this person sharing something with
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  me because they feel uncomfortable about it,
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  something they're processing, or are they trying
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  to get me to buy something or think that they're
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  really impressive? And so I think active listening
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  is, it's not just body language or just the words
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  that are being exchanged it's everything and
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  you can't do that unless you're truly in the
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  moment and truly present and 90 % of what we
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  experience just going through our days going
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  to the grocery store takes us out of that like
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  when's the last time you were standing in line
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  at the grocery store Just looking around and
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  able to smile at the person behind you. It's
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  almost unheard of. And so I think the real answer
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  there is, you know, listening is a great step,
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  but I would say active listening is really more
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  about the whole three -dimensional experience
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  of being in the company of another person. Absolutely.
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  Absolutely. And you brought up two very solid
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  points. One is your active listening with the
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  other person that you're sitting down with. And
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  a little trick of mine when I active listen,
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  because I never think about the next thing that
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  I want to say. I'm concentrating on what they're
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  saying. So I repeat some of it back to them.
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  So in other words, I understand that you want.
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  this, or I understand that you're talking about
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  this, and you go and repeat some of it. And you
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  continue on with it. So that shows them that
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  you're listening to what they're saying. So it's
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  very important. But I also because networking
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  is such a broad and generic field that I tell
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  people when they're online to grocery store,
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  online at a department store. Look around. The
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  person behind you may talk about mortgages, right?
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  And I used to be in the mortgage field. So if
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  you have something intelligent to say it and
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  turn back around, if they're interested, then
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  they'll tap you on the shoulder and say, excuse
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  me, but could you explain a bit more about that?
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  It's just, and you're all of a sudden, now you're
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  getting the recognition of everybody around you
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  and everybody's listening. So it's amazing the
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  type of networking you can accomplish. One thing
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  I'll add to that, Michael, which I absolutely
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  love, is that what we're really talking about
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  here is practicing. Practice at the grocery store.
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  Practice at Starbucks. Practice when you bump
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  into your neighbor getting the mail. These are
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  little moments that add up. If you feel overwhelmed
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  when you go to a conference and you're expected
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  to spend that first hour networking, or what
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  about when lunch gets served? Now that's big
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  time, right? If you don't know anyone and you
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  have to find someone to eat with and you don't
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  want to eat alone, it could be a lot of pressure,
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  right? Absolutely. Start small, right? Do your
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  reps. Get comfortable with it in like your everyday
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  places and then it'll be much easier later on.
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  I tell everybody it takes three things to get
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  good at networking as a whole. Practice and practice.
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  Practice yourself. Practice in front of a mirror.
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  Practice at the department store. Practice at
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  the grocery store. Practice because the more
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  reps you get in, the more comfortable you will
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  be talking to anybody else. So remember those
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  three things. Practice. It's what we all need.
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  Yes, we do. Okay. As technology takes over more
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  human touch points, where does empathy fit into
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  the networking equation? And how do we keep it
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  from being replaced by convenience? Interesting
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  question, Michael. First, I want to make sure
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  that we talk a little bit about. what we mean
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  by empathy because i hear this a lot that empathy
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  is a word that can confuse a lot of people and
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  maybe we can broaden it a little bit and say
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  caring about another person or caring about their
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  experience or even acknowledging that they have
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  a different experience than you That's a little
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  bit of, in psychology, they call it a theory
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  of mind. The ability to understand that someone
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  else is going through something that is different
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  from you and maybe just as or more important
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  or critical in their life as what you're going
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  through. So caring about the experience that
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  someone else is having, I think, is your avenue
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  into making real connection because people like
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  people that are interested in them. It's the
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  old how to win friends and influence people,
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  right? It's when I'm curious about you and I
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  ask you questions about you and I'm listening.
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  And if it's in a genuine way where I do affirm
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  your experience and I say things back to you
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  and I give you some indications that I'm paying
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  attention. you're going to come away feeling
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  like we've made a connection. And one of the
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  things too that I want to come back to is this
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  distraction and busyness and all that. And for
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  a lot of people, they feel like it's work. Like
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  I have to be on, I have to be available, I have
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  to answer emails at night and stuff like that.
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  I want to suggest that we all need to fight back
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  a little bit. We need to reclaim. A bit of our
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  own ability to just calm ourselves down and be
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  present. And there, again, we talked about practice.
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  There are a lot of small ways. Turn the notifications
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  off of your phone, right? Are you getting pop
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  -ups on every single email that comes up on your
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  desktop or your laptop? Pretty sure you don't
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  need that because you're going to look at your
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  email anyway. And if you're not, you're doing
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  that. Hopefully you're doing valuable work and
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  you shouldn't be distracted by that. So my point
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  here really is that just the way that we practice
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  having conversations with people in the grocery
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  store, in line at Starbucks, practice reducing
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  the noise and you can reclaim a bit of your own
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  attention so that it's easier when you are interacting
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  with other people. Absolutely. Absolutely. And
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  that brings me to a point where whenever I network
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  or I'm teaching people how to network, I say,
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  go there with a servant's heart. Go there thinking,
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  what can I do for them and not for me? Because
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  what that does is that releases. all of the tension,
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  everything off my shoulders. It's no longer a
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  problem. So if I'm going there and I'm saying,
• 18:28
  okay, Andrew, you're talking to me or everything,
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  I bring in something called F -O -R -M, family,
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  occupation, recreation, and there's a message.
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  So I try to pick out one of those things and
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  have you talk about it. Family, that's easy because
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  everybody loves to talk about themselves or their
• 18:47
  family or their kids or their grandchildren.
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  If they talk about youth sports, I'm in like
• 18:52
  Flint because I was a coach, I was a mentor,
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  I was everything. And then it moves to occupation
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  and they start talking about what they do and
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  how they do it and everything else. And I stop
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  them and I say, you know something, Andrew, I
• 19:05
  like you. I like the way you do business. can
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  I make you more successful? How can I be a good
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  referral source for you? And if I did my job
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  correctly, you say, Mike, I don't even know what
• 19:21
  the hell you do yet. You know, and that's perfect.
• 19:25
  And the follow -up is a whole nother conversation
• 19:28
  that starts the whole thing because that shows
• 19:31
  them that I'm very interested in helping them
• 19:34
  and not just selling something. Yeah. And like
• 19:38
  you said, it takes the pressure off. I don't
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  need to show up at this event and sell my thing.
• 19:43
  I don't need to find five amazing clients or
• 19:48
  anything. All I have to do is be curious. That's
• 19:51
  it. And connect. You connect. Listen, I told
• 19:55
  you I was in a mortgage company, mortgage firm,
• 19:58
  big bank. I was high up. And I used to go to
• 20:02
  a networking event. And I used to come home with
• 20:04
  a shoebox. filled with business cards. I said,
• 20:07
  look how good I did. Did I do that well? No,
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  I didn't, right? So now when I teach people,
• 20:14
  if they go to a three or four hour event, you
• 20:16
  come home with 15, maybe 20 business cards, right?
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  Because that means that you made a connection
• 20:22
  to all of those people. And then you follow up
• 20:27
  accordingly. But it's such a difference. I went
• 20:30
  to the School of Hard Knocks. I learned how to
• 20:32
  do everything wrong. Before I did it correctly.
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  But now I hope I think I'm doing it correctly.
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  Because I'm teaching people. And I hope I'm teaching
• 20:40
  them the correct way. Okay. So everyone says
• 20:44
  just be authentic. But does authentic mean we've
• 20:49
  been constantly adapting to fit different professional
• 20:52
  circles? Incredible question. And let's just
• 20:58
  let's call it like it is. I think as you're especially
• 21:02
  if you're working in a corporate environment,
• 21:04
  working for a company, there is a bit of that.
• 21:07
  There's a bit of am I fitting in? Am I understanding
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  what the rules of engagement are? Do I am I tuning
• 21:14
  into the culture of the company, the subculture,
• 21:17
  the way real decisions are getting made? There's
• 21:21
  a little bit of that. If everyone dresses in
• 21:24
  business casual and jeans on Friday, it would
• 21:27
  be in your best interest to probably do the same.
• 21:31
  Even if you're a sweatpants, you know, the way
• 21:34
  people go to the airport, right? They get on
• 21:37
  planes, right? Even if you're one of those people.
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  So authenticity doesn't mean, hey, I'm a cranky
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  jerk and everyone just has to love me the way
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  I am. That's not authenticity. Authenticity,
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  the way we should think about authenticity is
• 21:57
  really that you have opinions and you have ideas
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  and you're able to talk about yourself in a way
• 22:08
  that is. both affirming and also encourages input
• 22:15
  from others. You're not inflicting yourself on
• 22:18
  others. You're encouraging people to engage with
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  you. I went through a lot of this myself as trying
• 22:23
  to be this sort of corporate executive and fit
• 22:29
  in a financial services company where at the
• 22:31
  start, it was like everyone was in suits all
• 22:34
  the time. And that was as far away from my world
• 22:37
  as I could ever get. And you got to just figure
• 22:42
  out the stuff that doesn't matter and use genuine
• 22:46
  one -on -one conversations to get to know people
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  and build strong connections with people. That's
• 22:53
  perfect. I couldn't have said it better myself
• 22:56
  because it's not a matter of you trying to fit
• 23:00
  in. You're trying to make yourself, well, fit
• 23:04
  in, but have everybody else acknowledge the fact.
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  What am I trying to say? That you are part of
• 23:13
  the group. That's called the group. And you want
• 23:17
  to be a part of the group. You don't want to
• 23:19
  speak at people. You want to speak to people
• 23:22
  and have them respond to you. And it's how you
• 23:25
  respond to the responses that help you fit in.
• 23:31
  Right. Yes. And fighting against things that
• 23:35
  don't really matter too much. is really just
• 23:39
  going to set you off to the side. The things
• 23:41
  that matter are speaking what you feel like is
• 23:44
  truth. And sometimes you suffer the consequences
• 23:47
  of it, but a lot of times honoring your own ideas,
• 23:51
  that builds real authenticity. Yes, I couldn't
• 23:55
  agree more. Okay, so we're surrounded by constant
• 24:00
  noise, content, opinions, updates, notifications,
• 24:04
  as you said before. How do you personally cut
• 24:07
  through that and stay connected to people who
• 24:12
  matter most? It's a great question, Michael.
• 24:16
  For me, staying connected with people takes effort.
• 24:23
  I'm not going to tell you that I call my mom
• 24:25
  every day, okay? It does take effort. And I'm,
• 24:30
  I'm as, I like to say that I'm a lot more present
• 24:33
  or I can be present in situations. And I think
• 24:36
  that's probably true a lot of time, but in a
• 24:39
  lot of ways, I'm swimming in the pool with everyone
• 24:42
  else. I'm distracted too. So, you know what?
• 24:46
  Sometimes I put it on my calendar. Call dad.
• 24:50
  My son has been in the Bay Area for a long time
• 24:54
  now, and we used to purposely have a biweekly
• 24:58
  meeting where we would just chat. And it was
• 25:01
  great for his schedule. He was super busy. It
• 25:04
  was great for my schedule. There's nothing wrong
• 25:06
  with that. What you don't want is to be walking
• 25:09
  around feeling bad that you haven't reached out
• 25:11
  to people or talked to people. And sometimes,
• 25:14
  to be fair to ourselves, sometimes we just forget
• 25:17
  or we're just not in the mood. You go out, you
• 25:19
  take your garbage cans out to the curb, your
• 25:21
  neighbors are there chatting, you're like, head
• 25:24
  down, pull the baseball cap down. Not available,
• 25:30
  right? It's okay. Absolutely. Give yourself a
• 25:32
  break. Yep, yep. You can do that. You can just
• 25:35
  say, I don't want. any of that now because I'm
• 25:38
  just not in the mood. However, sometimes you
• 25:41
  have to open yourself up to that. You have to
• 25:44
  look out the window and see your neighbors talking.
• 25:47
  You'll not take the garbage out for 10 minutes
• 25:49
  because that means that both disperse. But otherwise,
• 25:53
  you take them out now and you go out and say,
• 25:56
  hey, what's going on? And talk with them. So
• 25:58
  you make that decision, but don't be pressured
• 26:02
  into... going out, being open and talking to
• 26:05
  everybody because we're not built like that.
• 26:08
  We need our alone time, but we don't want to
• 26:11
  take that too far. Okay. So as AI starts to handle
• 26:17
  more of our communication, emails, social posts,
• 26:21
  even introductions, where do you think human
• 26:25
  connection still has an irreplaceable edge? I
• 26:31
  think what we're going to find, and maybe this
• 26:33
  is happening now, is that there is some sort
• 26:37
  of surface level interaction going on with AI.
• 26:41
  And you see it, I see it on LinkedIn. It's so
• 26:45
  incredible what has happened on LinkedIn in the
• 26:48
  past five years, maybe eight years now. But I
• 26:52
  don't want to wax too philosophically about LinkedIn,
• 26:55
  but that's, it's a... fascinating thing to watch.
• 27:00
  And so you're right, AI, content creators, people
• 27:05
  managing your social media for you, all those
• 27:08
  things are happening. But I think, for one thing,
• 27:11
  the really generic stuff is never going to get
• 27:15
  picked up on. It's the posts or the interactions
• 27:19
  that actually have some meaning behind them,
• 27:21
  some genuine opinions. I think as humans, we're
• 27:25
  good. We're good at that. And we can tap into
• 27:28
  a million years of trying to figure out if that's
• 27:32
  a tiger or whether it's just the wind blowing
• 27:36
  outside the cave. We're pretty smart when it
• 27:39
  comes to whether we're talking to a stereotypical
• 27:44
  used car salesman or an ex -girlfriend or ex
• 27:49
  -boyfriend, right? We can tell. So I think. At
• 27:53
  the heart of your question really is like, where
• 27:55
  does this lead? And I think we're in a world
• 27:58
  where all the surface interactions are probably
• 28:01
  going to be formulated. They're going to be mechanical.
• 28:06
  And the people that are able to break through
• 28:10
  that, have a real message, have a genuine message,
• 28:14
  be of service, to your point earlier, are going
• 28:18
  to break through it. And really beyond that,
• 28:22
  I don't want to talk to an AI. Like, I want to
• 28:24
  talk to a real human who has lived experience
• 28:28
  and is willing to share the ups and downs of
• 28:32
  their life with me. I think the humanity is going
• 28:36
  to actually become more and more important the
• 28:39
  more that there's going to be a subset of our
• 28:44
  sort of co -workers in the world that are okay
• 28:49
  with AI. I think the success and the fruits are
• 28:54
  going to be with the people that are willing
• 28:56
  to break through it. Yeah, that's one thing that
• 28:59
  I try to keep in mind. And another thing that
• 29:03
  I coach people about is that this Zoom call is
• 29:07
  going all the time. But you have to remember
• 29:10
  one thing. There's a person on the other end
• 29:14
  of that call. Right? It's not AI generated. It's
• 29:18
  not anything. You're talking to him one -on -one.
• 29:21
  So you have to think about the person who is
• 29:24
  behind the Zoom call, not just a Zoom call. So
• 29:29
  listen, if you can meet them one -on -one in
• 29:32
  a coffee shop or whatever else, that's terrific.
• 29:35
  But if you can't and you're talking to them over
• 29:37
  Zoom, you have to remember there are people too.
• 29:41
  They're a person. And that's one thing that I
• 29:44
  tried to coach with. Okay. So can you recall
• 29:48
  a moment when you realized you weren't showing
• 29:50
  up as your true self in a professional setting
• 29:54
  and what changed after that? There's been a lot
• 30:01
  of moments like that. And I mentioned having
• 30:05
  this executive role in a financial services company.
• 30:09
  And for me, I'm a little bit more of I want to
• 30:13
  go dig in the dirt. I like to be on a mountain
• 30:15
  bike. I like to be outside. I have a couple apple
• 30:19
  trees. I like to be outside. And I always felt
• 30:24
  a little bit like, hey, I have to play a little
• 30:27
  bit of this game here and fit in. Because I've
• 30:33
  invested 20 years into my career and a bachelor's
• 30:37
  degree and a master's degree and cybersecurity
• 30:39
  certifications and IT trainings and all that
• 30:44
  kind of stuff. And it can feel like a machine
• 30:47
  that you're at the front of, but you're not necessarily
• 30:51
  like really steering. And there have been plenty
• 30:55
  of moments where I felt like I am getting into
• 30:58
  something that I don't care too much about. And
• 31:02
  one of the big moments in my career was burning
• 31:06
  out really badly. And I didn't even know that
• 31:09
  I was in burnout. People seven, eight years ago
• 31:14
  would say things like burnout. And it was just
• 31:16
  like, oh, take the weekend off. And rub some
• 31:20
  dirt in it, by the way. And real burnout is elusive
• 31:23
  because suddenly you start to care a lot less.
• 31:27
  And when you used to reply to your boss's email
• 31:31
  within 10 or 15 minutes, suddenly you're going
• 31:34
  like a day and you're caring less and less. And
• 31:38
  the thing that changed for me was that I knew
• 31:43
  I had to make a change. And that was one of the
• 31:46
  big catalysts for me. for doing the work. What
• 31:50
  do I want? What do I want to do with my life?
• 31:53
  Where do I want to be in five years? What are
• 31:55
  the big, what would be fulfilling for me as I
• 31:59
  go into the next phase of my career? And it really
• 32:02
  drove me to start my coaching business. Wow.
• 32:07
  That's good. That's great. We all have that.
• 32:11
  We've all come from corporate. We all began our
• 32:14
  coaching journey. And we've also felt that bit
• 32:18
  of burnout when you're used to answering those
• 32:22
  emails almost on the spot saying, oh yeah, I'll
• 32:25
  be right there or whatever else. And it starts
• 32:27
  taking you longer and longer. If you can self
• 32:30
  -realize what's going on, you'll make that decision
• 32:35
  either to time to change ships or let me just
• 32:40
  figure out something and continue on my way.
• 32:42
  So you have to make that distinct decision. Okay.
• 32:46
  If someone asked your closest friends or colleagues,
• 32:50
  what makes you a great listener? What would they
• 32:53
  say? And what do you hope that they'd notice?
• 33:00
  I think that they would say that I ask a lot
• 33:05
  of questions. And that's probably not surprising
• 33:09
  since I'm an executive and leadership coach.
• 33:12
  But in third grade, I won an award for most inquisitive.
• 33:19
  So I haven't changed that much in that respect
• 33:24
  over time. So I like to know a lot about people.
• 33:28
  Like, I want to know, like, where in Georgia
• 33:32
  are you? I've been there. I have family there.
• 33:35
  Maybe you live near them. I'd love to hear about
• 33:39
  the military. I have 50 questions about you,
• 33:43
  Michael, that I haven't asked because I'm super
• 33:46
  curious about people. So I think it's the question
• 33:48
  part. But actually, the second part of your question
• 33:52
  is, what would I want them to take away? And
• 33:55
  I think it would be the presence. I want to be
• 33:59
  in conversation with someone where even if I
• 34:02
  don't say a word, they can feel that I'm there.
• 34:07
  I'm not wondering what's for lunch. I'm not wondering
• 34:11
  like why my phone is buzzing in my pocket. I'm
• 34:16
  actually there with them human to human and that
• 34:20
  it's important to me. What you just said, it
• 34:25
  should resonate so much with each person, but
• 34:30
  having the phone in your pocket, that takes away
• 34:34
  the majority of your distractions when you're
• 34:37
  with a person. Right. That's one of the first
• 34:40
  things that I coach. Put the phone away, turn
• 34:42
  it off, turn the buzzer off, turn everything
• 34:44
  off and just be with the person. So by you doing
• 34:49
  that instinctively and you being present with
• 34:54
  the person that you're speaking to, how else
• 34:57
  would they describe you? They would say, no,
• 34:59
  Andrew listens to me. Nobody listens to me. Andrew
• 35:03
  does. He gets me. And that is probably the most
• 35:07
  important thing that I think that anybody would
• 35:10
  say about me is that he gets me. So that goes
• 35:13
  on from there. So let's bring this podcast full
• 35:16
  circle. Looking ahead five to 10 years as technology
• 35:21
  evolves and attention spans shrink, what will
• 35:26
  authentic connection look like and what habits
• 35:30
  should we be building now to prepare for it?
• 35:33
  Incredible question. I'm going to approach that
• 35:36
  with some of the themes that we've been talking
• 35:39
  about. So I've coached people at a lot of different
• 35:44
  companies and not just engineers, a lot of engineers,
• 35:48
  a lot of very senior engineers, which is a direct
• 35:52
  connection back to my corporate background in
• 35:55
  engineering. But I want people to understand
• 36:00
  that it's highly likely that the person you're
• 36:04
  interacting with is incredibly lonely and anxious.
• 36:10
  The pandemic did a lot of things, and we could
• 36:13
  argue the pluses and minuses of the pandemic.
• 36:16
  But one thing about a lot of people is that they
• 36:21
  got used to being by themselves, being at home.
• 36:28
  And like remote work, it's not a great fit for
• 36:31
  a lot of people. People complain about this return
• 36:33
  to the office stuff, right? That seems really
• 36:37
  heavy handed. But on the other hand, working
• 36:41
  from home alone, day in, day out is not real
• 36:46
  healthy for a lot of people. So I think you have
• 36:49
  to assume that the person in front of you is
• 36:52
  incredibly lonely and incredibly anxious. Because
• 36:58
  the speed of our world, our devices, our notifications,
• 37:01
  things are speeding up the way that we process
• 37:04
  things in our minds. Wouldn't it be amazing to
• 37:08
  be the person, even if it's for five minutes,
• 37:12
  that could actually listen to that person? And
• 37:16
  almost be the one, maybe the one person in the
• 37:19
  week or the month that is actually there in that
• 37:23
  moment, looks them in the eye. It smiles, affirms
• 37:29
  what they're saying, says it back to them, connects.
• 37:33
  Like, you could probably change someone's day
• 37:37
  with just being present, looking them in the
• 37:40
  eye, nodding and smiling in a genuine way. And
• 37:45
  the speediness, the AI, the technology, that's
• 37:49
  not going away. There's too much money in it,
• 37:52
  right? It's not going away. But we're definitely
• 37:56
  in a situation where we can be the person that
• 38:02
  provides a little moment of peace and connection
• 38:06
  to someone else. That's great. That's perfect.
• 38:10
  That's a perfect answer to the question. Andrew,
• 38:13
  this was a great podcast. I thank you so much
• 38:17
  for coming on. If somebody wanted to get hold
• 38:20
  of you, either just to ask you a question or
• 38:23
  to ask you about coaching, where can they reach
• 38:26
  you? Yeah, great place to reach me is on LinkedIn.
• 38:29
  You can find me. It's just Andrew Hinkelman.
• 38:33
  And one thing that I'll say is I do a lot of.
• 38:38
  what I might call pro bono coaching. If someone
• 38:41
  wants to just see what coaching is, I take an
• 38:45
  hour with tons of people week to week just to
• 38:50
  do a real conversation, not unlike the conversation
• 38:54
  that we're having right now. It's just what's
• 38:55
  going on. What are you working on? Where's the
• 38:58
  friction? That's something that I do with people
• 39:01
  frequently. We just take an hour and you can
• 39:04
  get a feel for what a real coaching session is
• 39:06
  like. So that's something that I'd offer to any
• 39:09
  of your audience. On my LinkedIn, there is a
• 39:12
  link to book time with me. That's a great way
• 39:15
  to connect. Great, Andrew. Thank you so much.
• 39:19
  And I hope people will take you up on it and
• 39:22
  they will all contact you soon. Absolutely. Thank
• 39:26
  you, Michael. Appreciate it. Well, hold on, folks.
• 39:32
  Don't go anywhere. Let's hear from our sponsors.
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• 40:25
  We're out, folks. A huge thank you to our guests
• 40:29
  for sharing such incredible insights today. And
• 40:32
  of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
• 40:35
  listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
• 40:38
  with us. If you're interested in my digital courses,
• 40:41
  being coached or having me come and talk to your
• 40:44
  company, just go to Michael and fill out the
• 40:48
  request form. Remember, networking isn't about
• 40:51
  being perfect. It's about being present. So take
• 40:55
  what you've learned today. get out there, and
• 40:58
  make some meaningful connections. If you've enjoyed
• 41:00
  this episode, please don't forget to subscribe,
• 41:03
  leave us a review, and share it with someone
• 41:06
  who could use a little networking inspiration.
• 41:09
  Let's keep the conversation going. You can find
• 41:12
  me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my
• 41:17
  website, foreman .com slash podcasts.