Latest / The Living Freed Podcast / Halloween
Transcript
- Serena and Hannah: Happy Thursday everyone and Happy Halloween! Ooh, spooky! Not spooky! Alright, Serena, I know this is going to be no shock, but we do record on Mondays, so what are you drinking tonight? I am drinking some Christian Chicken Dr. Pepper, which believe it or not, is kind of surprising because I don't really do caffeine after four. And I just plan on working out right after this. So I was like, you know what? I can justify it because if I don't work out, I can't sleep. So I'll be working out after this. Pilates. What about you? What are you drinking? Same, but large. I got like the extra large because I needed the cappie. She got home and she's like. Dr. Pepper sounds so good and I was like, really does. Well, yeah, I said that and then I was curled up in a ball on the side of the couch while you were doing homework and stuff and I was dreaming. what? I can't tell you on here. Yeah, your thoughts of the day was, I'm gonna, they'll hear about it later, I'm sure, but yeah. Tell me about your week. How's your week been? So my week has been great. Got on some dates, per the usual. Updated my family because that's who I am. been informed that I probably live my life for others. thought what an interesting thought someone had that I'm not going to live by. They may not know her as well as they think they do. Or at all. Gosh, what else? Church. We had that your friend's birthday. That was so fun. It was rodeo themed. It was rodeo themed. That's And cowboy hats, cowgirl hats. Shopping was super cute. Shopping with the girls and work. And I feel like I've done other things by honestly church. I feel it was an eventful week. This last week was more of a restful week for me, especially with work. I didn't have to go out to as many appointments, which I was grateful for. And then I really was looking forward to the rodeo party. And then I went to World Market to get gifts. Love And that was really fun. I love giving gifts. It's the best. I'm going to a party to give it and I have a gift. And the one thing I look forward to the most all week is, my gosh, I can't wait to give them the gift. But yeah, there's that. And then what are you looking forward to? wait, but we also went to Second Rodeo Coffee. I like that Yeah, that was a redeemable coffee shop. Yeah, I wouldn't say it's like hidden grounds level or even bespoke, but it was good and the vibes were vibin'. I did go back to it so that Hugo could try the breakfast sandwich and the hot sauce. Unfortunately, it was too long from the time that I got it brought here, got a little soggy. So he wasn't a big fan. But I got the cold brew and something was telling me, don't do it. I just have such a hard time getting like cold brews that I really like. Yeah. It's just hit or miss. They were fine when they did yours. Yeah. But I should have just stuck with the latte. The latte was much better last time. And Pump House is like, they do better with Pump House than Pump House does. Someone should tell Pump House that. but that's just my opinion, you know? It might be a snob, I don't know. I have a question. So for those who don't know, Sarita's boyfriend loves fresh hot food, so why would you pick him up a sandwich and then bring it here? Why did you think that was going to be good idea? I wanted him to try the hot sauce. I didn't know it was going to get soggy like that. Like all of it. He fell asleep at the pizza place trying to make sure the pizza was fresh one time. I just can't picture why. You should make him go at the restaurant. I thought about the thing. I thought about that too, but either way I was thinking, how can I make this so it's warm? And then he got it and he took a bite out of it initially. And I'm like, you don't want me to heat that up? He's like, it's still warm. He's so confusing to me. The thing is the eggs. You know how thick they were? Those were fat eggs. Yeah, but it was like soggy by that point. It was like splitting apart weird. It was just odd. Sounds odd. First time we went there, pretty good. The music was just a little loud. But besides that, I'll go back. Yeah, I would go back. It's So, one out of ten. One out of ten for a coffee shop. We'll just do six. Literally exactly what I was thinking, but out of Florida so far. Out of Florida? an eight. For Florida, which is kind of crazy. Yeah, because the only thing is only what I would say is a 10 is that one in Miami. Nottie's Coffee. I was literally thinking about the same thing. And we have to go back because I have to go down there anyways for something that happened today. And what is it? I don't remember. Well, I really want to drive down to Homestead, which is past Miami. There's a coffee shop I want to go to there. So you're going to have to take a day trip. I think it's like two and a half hours. There is something I need to do down there too and I can't remember what it is at the moment. Looking around because I'm waiting for something to ring the bell in my head. But I have to go down there for some, I think it's a work thing. I just don't know what. So whatever. You'll text me randomly. We'll go on that. We got to go there and then that surf shop and that hidden beach in Delray, which if it's hidden, I don't know if I'm going to share that one. Yeah, don't tell anyone. Yeah, all right. Let's hear what's in what's out. My what's in and what's out. My what's out, let's go with that first, is the iPhone 18. That thing has been, I've had it for a month, okay? I got it so that we would have good quality film. And because they had the opportunity to get it at a pretty low cost, and it is overheating all the time. It is, just shuts off on me randomly. We went to that concert, we're getting in the line, immediate my phone turns off on itself. The country conflict? Yeah, it was at 75%. Or over that. It was pretty high. And yeah, it just has random glitches. And it's annoying because my 14 never did that. And I did the jump from a 14. What's in is flip phones. And I can't wait. I can't wait till we get to the point where people can handle all the social media for us. I love doing the social media. But where they can handle all of that stuff, I don't have to go on social media at all. I don't have to do anything but answer people when they need me on a phone call or a quick text because I can't do paragraphs on a flip phone. feel like your dream is to be Dolly Parton where someone has to get to you through a pager or something. They have to send you telegraph to get a hold of you. There's just so much going on all the time and I kind of want to not disconnect from the world. I do enjoy. how much we have access to, but I can do it for my laptop if I need to. And I think we get carried away with it. And a lot of times it's not great for our brains. And I would rather let my body heal fully before I touch that thing again. Yes, for real. What's your in there and out? Okay. My what's in is the gym. yeah. After 10 days, after 10 days off, I'm back on. as of today. The arm workout, I even got in the shower this morning after the gym and was like, in the shower, like, that was a great workout. That was such a workout. And so I can't wait to go back tomorrow. I think I'm going to do legs and Pilates tomorrow. Okay, nice. I was just going to say, I've also been off for a while, as you know, and I did Pilates yesterday. It was so good. It's just like nice jumping back in. It's just keeping it back up. you're doing legs and Pilates. I think so. And then I'm going for that walk with that girl. After this, I'm doing legs. And I know Izzy's gonna get me. Izzy's gonna get you. She's gonna get me. Yeah. All right. What's your what's out? My what's out is, gosh, that's so hard. Honestly, What a blessing. I feel like sleeping has just like not been my thing lately. Like I'm not sleeping well at night last night. I barely slept. That's why I'm so tired right now. Y'all see these bags? I'm so tired. Even though someone did think I was 20 today, I was like, you smoke grass. Someone told me that I look 15. This create you do look 15 sometimes. No, but yeah, the girl at the salon was like, there's this really cute guy. needs a haircut. He's around our age. I was like, how old do think I am? She goes, how old am I? I said, baby, I just met you. How old do you think I am? She's like 20 my age. And I was like, I'm 29. I'm almost 30. We live in very different worlds. I said, I'll see if he's single for you, if you want me to. I didn't end up asking, should have. And then we went to dinner the other night, me, Krish, and Maddie. These guys came up to the table and they're talking to us and they're giving us life advice. And I was like, that's so cute. You're giving us life advice? They look like they were 19 years old. Eventually I was like, so what are you girls doing? How old are you? And I was like, Chris is like, actually, how old do think we are? Because she looks really young. And they're like, 23 to 25. And I laughed. said, how old are you? And he's like, I'm 27. And I was like, I thought you were a child. That's on me. I said, I'm only two years older. But I genuinely thought, why is this 19-year-old giving me life advice? What's happening here? What did you say what's out was? Sleep. yes. So who knows? Who knows? I think it's the heat. It gets so hot in there. I can't sleep in the heat. I don't like it. I lived in my van for a long time and I still, I put a fan on my back to make sure that's cool. I'm pretty sure it's the heat is what gets me. And then there's this frog outside my window that was desperate to get a girlfriend. And when I tell you, he was so loud, bro. The last two nights, that man, that frog is so loud, it wakes me up. He's so desperate. the other day. was walking by, was like, yeah, a boy. Yeah, yeah. He really wants a wife and some children, clearly. I had to put in my earplugs to sleep at one point because he was just so loud and then Yeah, that's really it. It's hot in that frog. Yeah, I I kinked my neck I think when I slept last night, so I had a headache all day from that one, but sorry. It's okay Are you ready to hop into this one? Yes, I am. Let's do it. All right. So I know we already said Happy Halloween, but this episode is actually on... Halloween crazy enough. We know Serena give it to them. Alright guys, so this one is a little different we decided to go on the Should you celebrate Halloween or should you not and we've actually flipped a coin to see who is gonna be pro and who is gonna be against and I guess they'll find out or should I tell them? Okay, so I I got the for Halloween and she got the against so we did some research there and We're going to hop into it. Hannah's gonna start. But before that, I do wanna say, we wanna encourage you guys to do your own research. Make sure that you're not getting that just from TikTok or someone telling you, this is the origins of Halloween. Check your sources, it's a good idea. TikTok's great for many things, just maybe not on the research side for history. But either way, Hannah, take it away. Okay, have that for sure. I want to say it's funny that we got what we got each of us in this conversation debate because I grew up in a family where witchcraft was like in the history of our lineage. And so we did not celebrate Halloween. were the like tucked in the basement lights off on the house. So none of the neighbors came by. My cousins would come over. My parents would turn on a movie and we would pretend like What was happening? Was it happening outside? And I didn't think too much of it. I knew everybody else was having fun, but that was it. I will say the things I liked about Halloween was after, like post-Halloween, my mom would go get the discount costumes and I would have like new princess dresses all the time and then like the discount candy. Another funny thing is that actually the night we met was at a Reformation party at the Dunkin's. is that what it was? I know it was like bonfire-esque. and you tell me about that. I don't remember meeting you. That's great. Good. She remembers meeting me. I do. Because she had quite the disdain. But I remember being at your house and feeling what you did. Feeling that you didn't like me even as a kid. Except you know like I'm gonna have a good time either way and I'm gonna sing My Little Pony all I want. So loud. Yeah so the story behind that is Serena was at this party at my cousin's house. running around in her little fairy dress with sparkles everywhere celebrating Halloween and I wasn't allowed to and I just was envious honestly, which is a sin. We all know guys, it's not that deep though right now. I was a child, but I really did. was I was sparkles and running around in the dirt who wouldn't be just literally. And then later Joseph just set it up for failure. Be like, she has a crush on your cousin. And I was like, now I hate her even more. Why would she do that? That's my best friend over there, but she did not have a crush. That was just her brother. being a Wishful thinking. Wishful thinking from Joseph. Being a brat. That too. Being a brat. So anyways, that is my villain origin story. Just kidding. But actually I was going to say, which is funny about that, is my parents, I can tell that side, is they did it a little differently. We were allowed to celebrate Halloween, but never anything that can be considered evil, darkness, or fear-mongering kind of thing. I was a princess almost every year. My favorite was Belle, probably. Loved that one. My brother loved to be a soldier. John was a bunch of different things. He was even Moses, I think one year. My mom made his outfit. then stuff like that. And it was a good opportunity for us and our neighborhood, for the community. And we'd all go out together and trick or treat and everything. But there were definitely standards and boundaries there for us. My parents wanted us to know the difference between just celebrating and... reveling, guess, in dressing up as a demon and the devil and how that wasn't we shouldn't do that and making sure that we're if we're gonna do it do it with you know moderation basically and then also actually on your fact it did make me think of this which I'm gonna let you go back into it but Paul brings up a very interesting verse that you pretty much hit on almost immediately so Yeah, I'm excited to see where this goes. Okay, so I typed out my debrief. So what we decide to do is we're going to give a summary of our opinion. And then we're going to get into the discussion and questions and debate of it all. The very basic reason people choose to not celebrate Halloween are rooted in historical pagan origins, religious convictions, and concerns over dark or fearful themes. The OG Halloween predates Christianity. It goes all the way to the ancient Celtic—sorry, I forgot how to say that word for a minute—celebration. And by ancient, I mean like 2,000 years ago. known as Soan, that took place in Ireland, parts of France, and the United Kingdom. Like most ancient holidays, Soan was used to mark a transition of seasons, from summer to the beginning of winter, hence the sort of dark and stormy vibes that we see today. Participants believed that on the night of October 31st, the portal between the realms of the living and the dead opened, allowing lost souls to return to the human-occupied Earth. They believed agriculture was affected, like a hayvark was being put on the crops and the animals. That the supernatural had a capacity where the Celtic priests, also known as druids, so that they could make predictions and communicate with the dead to facilitate happier, warmer winters. The festivals also typically involved bonfires at which the attendants wore costumes and participated in sacrifices of crops and animals. The Spanish Catholics forced conversions on the people of the areas they conquered that were still, of course, celebrating the original versions of Halloween and it traces and, And the local worship and culture resulting in a fusion of local practices with Catholic holidays being what we see is All Saints Day. which is what I wrote here, which is day of the dead is often associated with Halloween and happens to fall on the Catholic holiday. All Saints. It looks quite different from Americanized Halloween. I'm almost done. In the 18th century, Pope Gregory the third moved All Saints Day to a holiday to honor all the saints who did not already have their own day from May 13th to November 1st. It has said that the reason for this move is debated, but at the time, someone was gaining in popularity and is believed that it was the pope's way of Christianizing a pagan holiday. is a hybrid of mythologies and histories. Its origin story is befitting of a holiday that celebrates the obscure and occult and that the longevity and persistence of Fork Lord, wow guys, I'm not wearing my glasses, so sorry, community and identity. All right. Go ahead, sorry. A pastor wrote, And a Christian post the scriptures tell us to put away deeds of darkness in Romans 13 12 And that light has nothing in common with darkness being in 2nd Corinthians 6 14 I now have three verses for you Deuteronomy I know you do that's why I looked at you 18 verses 9 through 12. I did bring my Bible out, but it's just right here. Okay, okay Wow, I did not do the ESB version at all actually, so let me pull that out. I have the King James version, or King James version. Who cares? I like reading ESB. I'm a fan of ESB. I'm a fan of New King James. I grew up on New King James and I realized that I didn't care enough. I enjoy going between the versions to see different words. yeah. But my preference is New King That's what I do with the Blue Letter Bible. Okay, now. Over to chapter 18 verse 9 through 12, it says, When you come into the land that the Lord your God has given you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There should not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens or sorcerer. charmer or a median or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead. For whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations, the Lord your God is driving them out before you." That's my first one. Okay. You're going to the other ones now? Yeah. Okay. Only two more. I didn't get too crazy. The second one is Ephesians 5 verse 11. says, no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. And then Ephesians 6, 12 says, For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness, up this world, against spiritual wickedness and high places. And that's all I have. So let's just jump in there. So I do have a couple of notes on yours, on what you said. I do go into a little bit more in depth on some of the parts, but I also want to distinguish the Day of the Dead is a different holiday. Yeah, but they've merged it. That's what it said when I was going. Yeah, no, I believe you. The day that I ended up doing a deep dive into both of them and they both have Catholic or like where they got adjusted with through Catholic Church. But they are technically different because one is supposed to be more celebratory and one is more based in fear, which was interesting. Yeah. But what day is the day of the dead? In the same time of the year. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, but no. So Halloween is from like. Halloween is like UK Day of the Dead is more like Spanish heritage. But that's something like that not like history's merged them, but like Christianity has like equibulated them to be the same. Because they do all Souls Day here. I'm just going to say I think that's going to be a whole other subject for us all Souls Day. And I don't agree with it. don't agree with it either. But that's not Halloween. So I can say that. So as far as this goes, I'm losing my. I'm going to jump in and just go from the history of it. Please. But I also want to. Say the stance that I'm taking is gonna be, it was meant more to mock darkness because especially with it starting Celtic and then the church intervened with the Catholic church, they used it as the saints died and they mocked darkness because the saints were victorious basically. But let's get into it. Okay, so first things first, it originated with Celtics as she said. That was two to three thousand years ago. So about a thousand BC to five hundred BC. The name of the holidays was what you said. And if I butcher the names, I apologize. But I don't know how to say the holiday exactly. So I'm just going to skip by it. But it is Celtic antique. Either way, the holiday was a Celtic holiday and it was during the Iron Ages. So Ireland, Scotland, Island of Man, it was an oral tradition. in 43 AD, the Roman Empire conquered most of the Celtic territory and they merged their holidays with this holiday, Celtic holiday, which... The Roman holidays commemorated the dead and also celebrated the goddess of fruit. So during this time it was fruit, especially apples, which is very ironic because candy apples are still used to celebrate now, but apples played a big role there. And then in, it was about, I don't have this part written down, but in about 609 AD, there was a pope that made the holiday All Saints Day and that was on May 13th. And when Pope Gregory III in 835 AD, he moved that to November 1st and made it All Saints Day, intentionally replacing the pagan festival. So this was to originally it was for the martyrs, but then he made it for all known and unknown saints. And then All Hallows Eve, which I don't know if you guys know, but Hallows actually means in Old English, it means Holy Saint or Holy Person or Saint. So it was really all Saints Eve. So that was how that went. And let's see here. Later it was mixed with European customs, like it's called soling. So poor people would beg for food in exchange for prayer. They would pray for the dead of those people that they would get food from. And the Scottish would do this thing called guising, which they would dress up for treats or they would perform poems or tricks. and that way they would get cakes and things like that. Later on, they also would leave out food for spirits and the church would encourage people to give, it's called soul cakes out instead, so that they were no longer leaving food out like a pagan ritual, but instead they were giving food to the needy when they would come and they would perform. Now this is where I find interesting how many people will say it's very demonic because All Saints Day, when it came to America, the reason why, one of the reasons why people were saying it was demonic was because Protestants were in America mainly and then you had Catholics and they were kind of at war with each other. You had Catholics that were saying, these are heretics. And then you have the Protestants who are saying this is the Antichrist. And so the rhetoric in America was to say, this is demonic. It's from, which is very interesting because Bennett even was saying on Sunday how all the denominations are constantly at war with each other when there's so much else to be at war with. So they were demonizing All Saints Day, which was a day to remember saints, which was very interesting. And it was put off for a long time. It was pretty much allowed in Maryland in the Southern colonies. But above that, it wasn't very much welcome until a bunch of immigrants came from, or millions of immigrants came in the 1800s, Irish and Scottish immigrants. what was it? would, Protestants would say either it was too pagan or it was too Catholic. So that's a very interesting thing for me to hear that how much we say it's demonic, but. they were saying it was demonic more because they were fighting Catholics, the church, the church is arguing with the church, which is body is fighting the body. Yeah. So, which I don't think a lot of people even know the part that the church plays in Halloween. So I find it interesting that it's constantly, demonic, but either way. So following the Protestant reform, reformation, that was 1517, that happened. And then... The immigrants came here in about 1840. They brought their harvest traditions and they started mixing together. Americans did resist because as I said, too pagan or too Catholic, but they slowly adapted. They did start with turnips and everything besides pumpkins, but pumpkins are native to America and they were a lot easier to carve. Do you know the history of the jack-o-lantern? That was so interesting to me, so we can tell them later. Basically, I think it's interesting also because America is such a melting pot and like you look at Halloween and people think it's all coming from one thing but we have the Scottish playing a role which obviously Celtic area and Irish playing a role. You have the Roman Catholics, Rome, which is so far and the French and all these things together. The Spanish Catholics. Exactly. And so there's so many of these things together and People are so quick to forget that or forget the good parts of it and just kind of throw under the bus. That's my opinion there. Let's see here. Pranks were pretty much always associated with this holiday. Regardless. Even with All Saints Day, didn't start like that, but it did slowly start. In America, though, it was becoming a little out of hand. So they ended up changing, making certain rules and that a of... coming down on it aggressively in a lot of cities and made it more catered towards kids and community and everything like that, which I agree with, like having things for kids and community. The issue I'd see with America is they did start catering a lot more towards witchcraft in certain areas, but I think you can use your discretion and cut that part of it out. So that's my back, the backbone of that history there. see here. But yes, the veil between the dead and alive was pretty thin then. So people were coming and going. And I saw the masks thing though, where they would wear the masks to hide from the spirits or be recognized, which I think was crazy. And that's where bats, know, bats came from is because of the bonfires and all the bugs. I watched the same YouTube video. it was on the history channel. I I did read their article and it was long. Yeah. But it was really good. I was so intrigued by all of the little details and how they came up. So bats, basically, all the insects would come out for the bonfires. We've seen it. then it was so common to see bats there that during that holiday, they started saying they were harbingers of death, which was crazy. And then you have pumpkin history. Even orange and black have their history with the holiday. It's crazy the detail that goes into this that people miss. But okay, that's good, yeah? Yeah, I think that's great. That's so interesting. Yeah, so, do you want to say anything before I continue? No, you can keep going if you have more to say. That's pretty much like my, that's going to be the history that I'm going to be pulling from. Okay, give us your foundation. Yeah, it's going be more of my foundational piece. I've had plenty to say. Okay, yeah. Well, let's get into it then. so my first... Let me sneeze first. Okay, I don't sneeze anymore. That's always so annoying. If I make faces, it's literally because I have to sneeze so bad and it just keeps going away. Okay, go ahead. It'll make you sneeze. Just stare into it. Okay, so my first thought is going back to the Celtic tradition where they were rowing. crops, or sacrificing their animals into the bonfire. Yes, I know that they were sacrificing especially the livestock for a reason, which is they couldn't physically keep them alive in the winter, it was part of their not just tradition, but also to save themselves food. But at the same time, I always go back to sacrifices, and that's like if you're not burning an incense to the Lord, if you're not giving a sacrifice to the Lord, what are you giving it to? Are we still burning sacrifices now? No, but I'm going back to the history, the foundation. Because I think foundation matters. I would, because I have to take the anti-Halloween side, my anti would be that, which is like, what are the root cause, what's the root? What's the heart of it? And it goes back into they were making sacrifices to a being that was not God of the universe in hopes that it would take. grace on them or whatever word my Christianese wants me to use the word grace and allow them to have an easier winter than what they typically would if they didn't. but then later on you have All Saints Day and you're saying that's just inherently bad now because it has a- Did I say that? No, I'm asking. No, but I don't agree with Christians taking over other religious holidays in hopes to make them better. I will say when I saw it, I understand, it's funny because I made a note. said, it cracks me up the amount of times they try to trick others into becoming Christians by changing the holiday into something. Like people say Romans did that to Christians, whatever. yeah, I thought that was a little funny, but continue. So yeah, I don't... I don't agree with us taking over a holiday for the sake of, because people are already celebrating, well let's turn it into our holiday. Because in the truth, it's not our holiday. At the root of it, it's not our holiday. At that point, let's just have a whole separate holiday, a different time of the year that still allows for kids to dress up if that's what we wanna do is dress up. But I go back to that verse that says, like, whatever you say, whatever you do, make sure it's all to the honor and the glory of God. And I'm like, okay, if we're take this stance, if I'm gonna take this stance on Halloween, What about Halloween from its very core root, which is a pagan holiday, is going to bring honor and glory to God with how I'm celebrating it now? Just because Christians have tried to take over and mask. It's like putting a mask on something that's not it. You can look at a horse and call it a cow, but it's still a horse. I actually wouldn't agree either way. I get what you're going from. I'm just trying to figure out where to even start on unwrapping all that. Because I don't think any holiday or anything, I know people are going to disagree with me on this, has the power over Christians, whether it did have that root there. And I think Paul even says he knows and he, what does he say? specifically that he knows and I wrote it down somewhere, but he doesn't just know it. but that there's nothing on this earth that doesn't belong to the Lord. so, yes, it comes from pagan things, but we're not doing, I wouldn't say we're doing pagan behavior. If you actually look at what we're doing today, yes, if you're doing witchcraft, okay, you're crossing the line. You're crossing the line. But if you are trigger treating, which does not come from that holiday, they have similarities, but trigger treating comes from a different place. What was the other thing? dressing up. I think you're crossing a line personally if you're dressing up as evil things and you're welcoming those things. But it's also a really great opportunity for us to show light where it is and not reject people by running and hiding in the dark. This is not meant to be a jab at you, but I literally child. No, I you didn't know anything. didn't. Yeah, that's how good. But listen, it's it's an it's one of the only times of the year where people are actually coming to your door. Yeah, like everyone is coming to your door. It's a time of year where community is gathering. Yes, it's for candy. And if you are going out to idolize candy or idolize being sexual or trying to show off your body, whatever. not great intention, your intentions definitely matter. But if you're going out with community and a whole different, then your intention is not away from the Lord. then I don't see a problem with it. People are coming to your door and you have the opportunity to be a light and not hide and show them rejection. Like the world rejects them all the time, you know? So let's see, everything. yeah, we're called to love our neighbors. Open your door. Give them some candy, talk to them, show them that they're like, so they'd be like, you know those people that you would want, well, I guess you might not know this, but when you. You go trick or treating and there are some houses that are just different, either on how they respond while opening up the door or what they give you. And you're just like, I just want go back to that house. You end up talking to these people and it's an opportunity. It's always an opportunity. There's always an opportunity to minister more. I'm not saying participate in evil behavior, but I'm saying I don't think the hollet. Halloween itself is evil. think people tend to be evil and the demons will follow that. I don't think the demons started there. think that kind of like follows people there. You don't think that actively celebrating a holiday that is part of the world and participating in a holiday that it was founded of the world is not inherently participating in the world, I guess? No, I think everything you do, you'd technically be participating like the world. It's definitely how you conduct yourself. And if you're doing it, you can eat like the world. Like you can literally eat your food like the world or you can eat to give the glory to the Lord. It's such a small thing. So yeah, I think everything that you do, you could do it like the world or you can do it to glorify God. If you are sinning while you're doing those things, that is not glorifying God. whether you think so or not. But I do think though, if you're feeling the conviction from it, one, if you know your friend is feeling convicted from it and you continue to push them towards it, then you're wrong. I think you're wrong for that because Paul even says like pushing someone to do something, they can feel convicted that they're not supposed to be doing, you're causing them to stumble because if they think that that activity is going to make them sin against the Lord, and you're encouraging that even though you don't believe the same thing, you're actively causing them to stumble. If they believe that that is convicting them against the Lord and they choose to approve it anyways, they're sinning against the Lord because they're doing something they don't believe God approves of. That being said, there are obviously some things where people are just delusional or leaning on their own understanding. But I'm trying to make draw the line where it's a little bit more clear, but it's not always that clear because even in Romans, like Romans 14, you have Paul talking about like, you know, it would do well for you, like not to do certain things like eating meats that are offered to idols, but it's also just meat. it's just me. You're not sinning against the Lord now, but if your brother is convicted of it, then don't force him to do it. And then if it makes him feel some kind of way towards you, don't do that with him. Well, you just led into my next point, which actually was that verse where he says, like, if you're eating meat and you're unaware that it's been sacrificed to idols, it's fine. But if you become aware it's been sacrificed to idols, you shouldn't eat it. And that goes into, okay, if you're celebrating, in my mind, it goes into, okay, if you're celebrating Halloween, you don't understand the origins of it, that's fine. But the second you're aware of where it's coming from. It gets interesting in my mind because in Deuteronomy, it says, even if you don't know, even if you don't know that you're sitting, can be a sin. But then Jesus came, Jesus saved us. And then Paul is saying, and I just want to find the verse, to be honest. And he says specifically that. He says specifically, and I'm literally, lost everything in my mind for a split second. probably over here. I know and I'm convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself. Like nothing is unclean of itself, but how you use it and how you participate, that can definitely make it unclean. What is he talking about in that verse? He's talking about food, mostly. Yeah, and God created food. God created food. But God also created... No, was Halloween. Halloween, no, not Halloween. The original holiday from the Celtics isn't Halloween. Halloween came from All Hallows' Eve, which is a holiday. Yeah, but Soin, which is the Celtics holiday. Originally the pagan holiday, yeah, that fell on the same day. it's human created. Yeah, it's human created. What is it? A lot of things are human created. Most things are. I mean, they're all from God, but like, know I'm saying? Yeah, but that pagan holiday, which was then... taken over by Christians and changed into something else. And again, I'm just going back to you can put makeup on a pig, it's still a pig. I think you end up stepping more into legalism with that, to be honest. Do you? Yeah. Okay. Why is that? Because you're saying like, you're pointing at it as if like, I think there's a lot of judgment on it more. don't think, I think Halloween can be taken the wrong way or used wrong. Okay. But I don't think it's inherently evil. I think maybe how the pagans used it wasn't proper. Obviously, there are certain things that a lot of things that pagans do that we're not supposed to do. So let me ask you this. When you think of Halloween, what are your thoughts? Because when I think of Halloween, as someone who has now participated in it as an adult, going to parties and dressing up, my first thoughts personally are going to the parties that I've had a lot of fun at in the past. you know, getting dressed up, but I also think about the scary movies. think about tricks. think about drinking. I think about the costumes and I think about just everything that comes to mind when I think about Halloween is all worldly stuff. I don't see God in any of it. think that's a perspective though. That's what I'm asking. I it's perspective because I'm going to throw another one there because I have a very different remembrance of Halloween. Yeah. also- But you did it since a child and I jumped into it as a adult. thought with Halloween is it was a time where all my friends of the community got together. Y'all dressed up in just fun. beautiful things and then or creative things and then after that we literally had a market for candy like it wasn't like an obsession with it but it was just like a fun it was a fun thing and it brought everyone together and even the parents together so I think now it based more in community it is one of the most Spent what people spend on this holiday though is absolutely crazy. It's second to Christmas, which is absolutely crazy. It's crazy. but there was somebody else say I know a lot of people say it's like Hallmark holiday I find holidays to be even if they're coming from what we consider pagan stuff because you can align many Christian holidays with pagan holidays Even Christian Christmas is aligned with that, but I'm not gonna go over here and say Christmas is better I should celebrate a different time of the year. I think community and how you handle holidays really matter and God gave us holidays to have a day of remembrance and rest. And that was the point of holidays in the Bible was remembrance and rest. And like Valentine's Day, no, I know we're not talking about that on one day, maybe we will, but like a lot of people get really upset about Valentine's Day and it's a waste of money, all this. I think it's a very beautiful idea of taking a pause, taking a moment, remembering your love for one another. sitting down, a lot of people use it as a chore now and they just have the wrong mindset, I think, but you're sitting down, you're remembering, you're like, wow, I forgot what it was like to sit with you here and actually take time to have dinner with you or something like that. And it's a time to remember and step forward in that again, because humans, holidays were made for us, not for God. God didn't need them. He made them for us because we get used to the routine of life instead of... Remembering we just were so easy to forget we see it in Genesis, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, so many. We see it all throughout the Bible, but very much with the Israelites in the beginning. They are very forgetful people and he is very much present with them. He walks with them. There's a smoke in front of them. So I would say remember remember those things because I holidays are a good thing to have. I think if you're going to use them incorrectly. That's my biggest thing. if you're guessing incorrectly, Halloween can be used incorrectly, but just because something was used by pagans in the beginning and then was given redemption, which there are plenty of things that were redeemed that didn't start well that are redeemed, including us, including humans that are redeemed and can be used properly. you know, that's actually something I wrote, which I want to find, which says Mm-mm. Okay, we're called to be redeemers of culture, not complainers. And a lot of times people are just constantly complaining about it, about all these holidays, and we could be easily redeeming it. I'm not saying that we need to call pagan stuff our own, like we can do other things, but All Saints Day, like I grew up in a reformed Presbyterian church and they celebrate All Saints Day. So like my family, they're doing, November 1st, they'll be doing All Saints Day. And then All Hallows Eve is the day before, so you have your feast and everything. obviously they represent different things, but it was also to kind of encourage people to step away from pagan behavior. And a lot of times it can be hard to do when you don't have an example of something else. Yeah. So I feel like I touched on a lot there. So I want to ask you a question. I actually have a few questions that I wrote down. I will do my best to answer. Would you say, like, the... biggest thing with Halloween, this is a question I didn't write down, is most people, they identify it with demons. I think that they identify it with darkness, not necessarily demons, but I would say, yeah, especially a lot of Christians, especially in the Bible Belt. Are we called to run away from darkness or be a light against darkness? To be a light against darkness. And I find that a lot of time we run from it when it's a perfect opportunity to But think a lot of people see... That doesn't mean participate in bad behavior. But I'm not saying that. What I was gonna say is I do think a lot of people see participating in Halloween as participating in darkness, not participating in bad behavior, but are you feeding something? know, like when we talk about how powerful our words are and how we can speak things because God's words are powerful and we're created in His image. So like for them... I can see how someone would feel like their argument is if you're participating in Halloween, are you giving energy into that? Are you value into that? your spirit, even if you're not tricking people, even if you're not dressing as a demon, even if you're not speaking to the dead, is participating still participating? it's it's coming off as worldly, then you should definitely take a second look at what you're doing for sure. I think it does matter how we're presenting ourselves, especially for fellow Christians and the world. And I know people are gonna say, it doesn't matter what other people think. It does. It does matter what other people think. Paul literally says it matters how you present yourself to the world. It doesn't say it does matter how we show up. Yes. And so, That's in boldness and also in restraint. So, all right. So are you, are we too quick to say things are demonic as in this? A hundred percent. Okay. I'm glad you said it because this is what I wrote down. that all the time that I sit there and I'm like, I've said this to you. It pisses me. Nothing pisses me off more than one. People are like, I had the spirit of whatever, whatever the heck it is that they decide the spirit of something is upon them. or I'm being spiritually attacked and it's like, no, Suzy, you just cheated on your boyfriend. You're not under spiritual attack. Let me tell you a story that gets me every time. Your fruit is your fruit is your fruit. This is the line that I'm going to leave us with for a split second and then I want to go into a story. says, it seems like people are more willing to see demonic behavior and everything than they are God. Yeah, 100%. I think is the complete opposite of what it is and we end up idolizing them without even realizing it because we're seeing them in everything. We are supposed to be seeing the Lord Jesus in everything, the one that can conquer all. Demons can be in one tiny little place at a time and they have no power over us when Jesus Christ is there. And he's always there. So quick story. I was in this group and this gets me every time is we're here and the one that is leading the group We're sitting in a circle, there's several of us. There is water that drips down occasionally and it's hitting them. Hits them once and they go like this and then they get hit again. And they go, my gosh, it's the enemy trying to get me. And I'm pulling up, like, why are we associating small things with the enemy? Because they're saying the enemy when you could easily be taken credit away from God. Half the time we're saying it's the enemy unless we see something good. When we don't see even close to anything that's going on in the background, yet we're so quick to say the enemy until we see the good part of it. And that just doesn't seem very faithful to me. But so they move forward and all I could think is, what if the roof was about to fall and you moving that a little amount saved your life? What if you moving forward gave opportunity for you to see somebody that you weren't able to see before and see that they're struggling? You limited where God was there because you gave that to the enemy. Something so small as a water droplet is hitting you. Yeah. No. So I just, find that people are more willing to give room to the enemy or demons or Satan than they are that God is working somewhere. So that was my thought there. And that kind of came together there. But let's see. Any other questions? Do we shirk the flesh? or plain evil behavior of humans by constantly giving credit to the enemy. Can you just say that whole thing again? Because I don't know what that first word was. Shirk. Shirk? Shirk. Never heard that. Shirk behaviors, you're shirking your responsibilities. I've never, what does that word mean? I've never heard that. means it's you're not taking responsibility. You're putting that responsibility or you're saying it was somebody else's fault for your actions. So humans do so many things. Our flesh is not good. And we do things that we're not supposed to do all the time. And then we shirk it. Shirk, shirk it on the enemy or demons and say that it's them. It's not them. It's you. It's me. Shirk. Please, people, tell me you've heard the word shirk before, because my dad has used that so many times. I've never heard that. First off, I've heard a lot of words. we had our phones right here, we can look it up and I can show you. is the first. Secondly, I feel like I already know earlier. know. That's hilarious. Shirk. I feel like this is going to be a very much like, was the chicken there first or the egg, you know, kind of thing. It says, do demons originate before us, before our bad behavior or bad behavior comes before the demons? Say that again. Do demons originate before our bad behavior or does our bad behavior come out first before the demon show up? Our bad behavior, for sure. Exactly. So why are we saying, the demon behavior made me do it? Come on, guys. Come on. The devil, Yeah. So those were my questions there because Even with Halloween, whether you think it is fine or not, I think how your intention behind what you're doing matters. It's the same thing as what you wear, your intention behind it. Like, why are you wearing the crop top? Honey, are you wearing that because you're, whatever, or are you wearing that because you want someone to look? I wear a crop top, but my intentions behind are completely different than they may have been. once before when I stopped wearing them and then now I'm Correct the behavior. don't think it's that deep for Halloween for Halloween. But anything pre dating Halloween? When you're if you're trying to behave like a like the Celtics, then. Celtic pagans at least. Catholics... You would separate the... I mean I'm not gonna agree... of Halloween away from what it is now. I think history is really important. I wouldn't separate it because I think people need to know what they should... behavior they shouldn't be doing. Sacrificing things that you shouldn't be sacrificing. A lot of pagans sacrificed human beings. Not great. Maybe you should be able to see that in history, one of the reasons why God says not to do it is because pagans were doing that. And if we don't remember history, we will make the same mistakes over and over. So I wouldn't separate it exactly, but I'd say as we've made it more of a Christian holiday, behave like a Christian. If you're not gonna behave like a Christian, you have no business participating in the community or anything like that with your celebratory actions. Does that make sense? it does. You're basically saying we're participating in the community to be a light in this world on a holiday that's often seen as darkness, there's no problem. And I'm going to keep the stance that I got flipped on with the coin, is if the holiday is darkness, you can still be a light, but don't participate in the holiday. You can be a light in different ways. I think if you're going to go dress up, get drunk. or go dress up, do witchcrafty behavior. None of that is things that God says that we should be doing or the Bible says. you I don't think there's a problem having a drink. But I think when you're going out to intentionally be foolish, that's not really something God calls us to do. So, gosh, there was a time in my life I loved going out to intentionally be foolish. You know, like, but you grow up. Those are the good old days, I really did love this When you're doing that, typically you're out with the world doing things and... I wasn't doing things, y'all. I was just out there dancing. But... an exception to the rule, but most people are not by exception to the rule. They're going to go out and they're going to participate. And then they can say they were doing it just because they were drunk. And it was the spirits of the alcohol that was leading them to do bad behavior. And it was not. Mine just led me to order two pieces of pizza that I did not need every night that we went out. That's fun. But I feel like that hits most of things. I will say that I don't mind flipping the coin for the pro because I don't have a problem with Halloween for kids. As an adult, I don't see the need to be participating in that as much as maybe being part of the community. As you get older, If you're celebrating All Saints Eve or All Saints Day. Great. Which in my opinion is another conversation for another time. All Saints Day? Yeah. Well, they're not praying to the dead. All Souls Day they do that. Yeah, I'm not saying that they're praying to the dead. I don't agree with that. I just don't know why we're celebrating. All Saints Day? All Saints Day. It's a remembrance of the saints. Yeah, but like not to be like shallow, but who cares? I think it matters very much because is it a good reminder of the stuff that you're going to go through or could go through as a Christian? We have saints like- You're telling me you're to take one special day out of your year to extra remember the saints? Why not? Because holidays are good for the heart and soul. They really are. I love a holiday. I just don't understand the point of celebrating All Saints Day when I'm like, listen, I'll read about Peter and ask when I read about Peter. and I'll know everything. What about the people that aren't encouraged to do this and don't even know anything and that's the opportunity to the Anything they're celebrating all day and stay? Maybe it's a gateway. Just like gateway drugs, we have gateway Bible. Holidays. Okay. Just like gateway drugs, have gateway holidays. To get these heathens in the word. I think you might not see the positive parts of it, but there are so many like... Maybe it's not necessary for you, but it is a great tool for other people, either refreshment, remembrance, or entrance. Okay. I'll let you have that one because I just think it's pointless, but that's me. But yeah, if you're doing the same thing you were as a kid, think dressing up and getting candy. Are you going trick or treating as an adult? No, but you just said if you're doing the same thing you were as a kid. Yeah, childish behavior. I don't agree with childish behavior once you grow up. Bad mentality. No, I've never dressed up and gotten candy. I did once as an adult. I will probably take my kids to do it with their cousins and stuff like that and their cousins here in Florida. Whenever we go visit and then your kids. So their cousins here in Florida. Yeah, who are also they're gonna be their cousins. you wait, Hugo has siblings. He does. But I don't I don't know if they go trigger trading, to be honest. either way, that's a good subject and. end of the matter is don't celebrate things you don't know anything about. Do some research. Do some research. Yeah. Leave us some Bible verses. Yeah. Read some, sorry, write some comments and some messages on your thoughts or where you lie. You know, send us some verses on why maybe we should or shouldn't or maybe some of your best experiences on Halloween. Yeah, my mom's going to hear this and I know she's going to say something, but I just want to say I- me or you? No, to me for what I'm about to say, which is I am still a little bitter. I never got to go trick-or-treating as a kid. I really am like yeah Yeah, I mean the bonfire parties we would have were super fun for Reformation Day, which was also on Halloween that we would host and those were a bomb for lack of a better term for bonfire parties, those were so much fun. I had a blast but And even we tried to do a couple dress up to once you remember that was my mom trying to make up for the fact that we never got to go trick-or-treating yeah, for sure. Do think she was just throwing random? dress up parties in October. You know what, that you're mentioning this, you read the story? I don't remember what his name was as a serial killer, but the one that actually put stuff in the candy or the food why they now only serve small candies for Halloween. So they used to do cakes and they used to do all kinds of things in handout. Yeah. I that one. Yeah. 1900s, they started getting rumors, there's razor blades. Same thing we heard as kids. there's razor blades and they're doing stuff. Well, then something actually happened in 1970 where I don't know if he was a doctor, but he, I don't remember what the exact drug was, but he put a drug in candy and handed it out to his son and a bunch of his friends and his son died. And it turns out he did that to get the life insurance policy payout. I work in life insurance. I would never do that. That's crazy. Isn't that literally mind boggling? I'm surprised, honestly. That's only one example. I'm sure there are so many horror stories, but he got a name for himself and then he actually got the death penalty and they killed him. That's crazy. Yeah. Jack O'Lantern is also a really interesting story. There are so many interesting stories behind all of this. Do you know the whole Jack O'Lantern story? was listening to a YouTube video on it yesterday. But honestly, I listened to four hours worth of YouTube videos while I cooked. That makes sense. I'm just going to tell this one and then I'll end there. But basically, this guy, name is Jack. It is Jack, but it's like Stingy Jack. They call him Stingy Jack. What he do is take turnips. Little Stingy Jack. He would make faces in them because turnips was more common for people. So turnips and potatoes. then and so basically what they say is he would tried to catch the devil in it. And one day he caught the devil in it and the whole point was... Every once in while you gotta catch the devil in your turnip. We've all done it. Okay, so he catches him and he says he'll let him out only if he never has to go to hell. And so the devil agrees. Because the devil's in charge of that. Yes, so the devil agrees and he's like, okay, now I don't never have to go to hell. And finally he dies and it turns out heaven doesn't want his soul either. so now... and now he will walk the earth forever as a ghost and the devil gave him a lantern made of the turnip. So that's what lights his way. And then after that people started doing it and that's where the folklore comes from. Yeah. Then the devil went down to Georgia. Yeah. That's exactly In y'all are wondering where he went, he went straight down to Georgia. To Johnny. To Johnny with the fiddle. With the fiddle. Okay. I'm the fiddle picker too. I'm surprised you know that song. I used to listen to all the time growing up. I still listen to it now. I'm just kidding. used to even like country music when we were growing up. It's a good song. Well, that is all we have for y'all today. Thank you so much for listening. I feel like you already said every... leave comments and stuff. yeah, do that. Message us on Instagram at Living Free Podcast. We'll be doing plenty of polls and questions this week, so make sure that you... Put your votes in. We'd love to hear what you have to say. But we'll see you guys next week. Yeah. And let us know which one you agree with. Am I right? Is Serena right? Are we both right? Tails. I thought you were Tails. No, it's Heads. Because you said Heads is the one that gets Halloween. you said this is for you. You picked for me. Anyways, I hope you feel encouraged some way. Yeah. Possibly. Or lighter. to do your research. Or lighter. And yeah, happy Halloween, everyone. guys. Bye all. Happy All Saints Day. See you guys next Thursday. Bye.