Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Christmas Gifts or Experiences?

Transcript

Christmas Gifts or Experiences? · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:05
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Happy Families podcast. Going to
0:08
Speaker 1: do this intro a little differently to normal, Kylie, I
0:10
Speaker 1: have a question for you. I don't normally bring you
0:12
Speaker 1: in this soon, but I'm bringing you in now. My
0:14
Speaker 1: question is this got Christmas in well two weeks today.
0:18
Speaker 1: Would you rather that I gave you an envelope with
0:20
Speaker 1: the promise of an experience or would you rather that
0:24
Speaker 1: I gave you a package tied with a bow with
0:26
Speaker 1: a gift inside for Christmas? Pick your preference.
0:30
Speaker 2: It's a no brainer. Yep, it's experiences all the way.
0:33
Speaker 1: Why.
0:34
Speaker 2: Firstly, I'm not a things kind of person. Material things
0:38
Speaker 2: don't don't really matter to me very much, Okay, but
0:42
Speaker 2: the anticipation of knowing I get guaranteed time with you
0:47
Speaker 2: doing something new or exciting is the best. That's better
0:52
Speaker 2: than anything.
0:53
Speaker 1: Today on the pot we talk about the way to
0:54
Speaker 1: give the perfect gift. Is it an experience? Is it
0:57
Speaker 1: a thing? What does the research show There is quite
0:59
Speaker 1: a lot of research in this area. And how how
1:02
Speaker 1: in the world are we supposed to understand the science
1:04
Speaker 1: of gift giving in a developmental framework so that we
1:07
Speaker 1: can make sure that we're giving the right stuff for
1:08
Speaker 1: the right person for the right reasons, that's going to
1:10
Speaker 1: maximize their happiness on Christmas Day. Stay with us, that's next. Hi,
1:24
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Family podcast, where you get real
1:26
Speaker 1: parenting solutions every single day on the streets most downloaded
1:29
Speaker 1: parenting podcasts, where Justin and Kylie Colson. Kylie, let's talk
1:34
Speaker 1: about this conversation around gift giving, because will you use
1:37
Speaker 1: that word maximize maximize happiness on Christmas Day?
1:40
Speaker 2: And I've never thought about it, but you're a maximizer.
1:43
Speaker 1: Maximal maximize are what makes you say that? What have
1:49
Speaker 1: you seen?
1:50
Speaker 2: You're always trying to maximize your time, your energy, how
1:55
Speaker 2: you spend your time with others.
1:57
Speaker 1: There's a name for this, what is it?
1:58
Speaker 2: Extra extra?
2:00
Speaker 1: Yeah? I was going to go back to my nineteen
2:02
Speaker 1: eighties name actually, but the twenty twenty five version of
2:04
Speaker 1: it is extra Yeah. The name for it is type
2:10
Speaker 1: A maybe. Yeah, I'm a little which is an extra right,
2:14
Speaker 1: So today on the pod, let's talk about it. I
2:17
Speaker 1: mean a number of years ago, probably ten or twelve
2:19
Speaker 1: years ago now, could have even been more. It might
2:22
Speaker 1: be fifteen. A couple of researchers, one from the University
2:25
Speaker 1: of British Columbia in Canada. Her angel is Done and
2:27
Speaker 1: a Harvard co author, Michael Norton, co authored Happy Money
2:32
Speaker 1: The Science are Smart a Spending and they published research
2:35
Speaker 1: in the journal Science that showed that people are happy
2:37
Speaker 1: when they spend money on others versus themselves. Now I
2:40
Speaker 1: actually do this. In one of my presentations, I asked
2:43
Speaker 1: for four volunteers. They come up to the front of
2:44
Speaker 1: the room. How I used to do this with cash.
2:46
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to start doing it with cash again.
2:48
Speaker 1: I've been doing it with chocolates for the last year
2:49
Speaker 1: or two, but cash is more fun. And what I
2:52
Speaker 1: would do is, I'd say to the first person, hey,
2:55
Speaker 1: here's five dollars, or here's a chocolate bar. Either either
2:59
Speaker 1: I'd say here's the or here's the chocolate bar, and
3:01
Speaker 1: it's all yours. Just because you're volunteered, I just want
3:03
Speaker 1: to give it to you. How awesome is that? And
3:06
Speaker 1: do you know not one person ever looked at me
3:07
Speaker 1: and said that they were upset about it. Everybody who's like, like,
3:11
Speaker 1: getting cash or getting a chocolate from somebody makes you
3:14
Speaker 1: feel happy. But the rule is you're not sharing with everyone.
3:18
Speaker 1: This is yours. And then I would go to the
3:20
Speaker 1: second volunteer and say I'd give them exactly the same thing,
3:23
Speaker 1: either five bucks or a chocolate bar, and I would say,
3:26
Speaker 1: this is for you in the same way that I
3:28
Speaker 1: gave volunteer number one the same thing. But there's a catch.
3:33
Speaker 1: It's not actually for you. I want you to spend
3:36
Speaker 1: that five dollars on someone else, or I want you
3:37
Speaker 1: to give that chocolate bar to someone else, at which
3:40
Speaker 1: point everyone in the crowd go big man. I'd say, no,
3:42
Speaker 1: kick your hands down. They're going to give it somebody
3:44
Speaker 1: later at home. It's not for anyone in the room.
3:46
Speaker 1: And then I would ask the question who do you
3:47
Speaker 1: think is going to be happier? Who do you think
3:50
Speaker 1: is going to be happier? And people would vote. So,
3:52
Speaker 1: I mean, I've given you zero information about today's podcast.
3:56
Speaker 1: I've done all the prep on this one. You're literally
3:58
Speaker 1: here as a passenger, so I can quiz you the
3:59
Speaker 1: way that I am right now. What would you imagine
4:02
Speaker 1: the crowd would choose who's going to be happier out
4:05
Speaker 1: of the person that's got the five dollars of the
4:06
Speaker 1: chocolate bar for themselves versus the person that's got the
4:08
Speaker 1: five dollars of the chocolate bar to give away.
4:12
Speaker 2: M I would depend on I think it would depend
4:15
Speaker 2: on the age group that you were with, But I
4:18
Speaker 2: would say that generally people would think that having the
4:22
Speaker 2: chocolate bar all the money for themselves would make them happier.
4:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting you say that, because often people will
4:29
Speaker 1: will literally say that. They'll be like, oh, yeah, the
4:31
Speaker 1: chocolate like or the five bucks. What are you going
4:33
Speaker 1: to spend five dollars on someone? Just just have it.
4:35
Speaker 1: But what I've discovered over time is that more and
4:37
Speaker 1: more people are sort of going, no, no, no. When you
4:39
Speaker 1: give it away, you do feel better. So what I
4:41
Speaker 1: do next, Kylie, is I pull out a twenty dollars
4:44
Speaker 1: node or sometimes even a fifty dollars node, depending on
4:46
Speaker 1: what I've got. Two of these costs me a lot,
4:49
Speaker 1: so I'm a little bit stingy about it sometimes. But
4:52
Speaker 1: either pull out a twenty or a fifty and I
4:54
Speaker 1: give it to volunteer number three and I say, hey,
4:55
Speaker 1: guess what this is what I'm giving to you, And
4:57
Speaker 1: the whole crowd goes, oh, they can't believe that there's
5:01
Speaker 1: a pineapple or a fifty dollars out there, or even
5:03
Speaker 1: a twenty or I pull out one of the big,
5:05
Speaker 1: big boxes of mixed chocolates, you know, like the really
5:08
Speaker 1: expensive big ones, and the whole rug goes oh. And
5:12
Speaker 1: I look at them. I say, this is for you
5:14
Speaker 1: only you. I either want you to spend this money
5:16
Speaker 1: on yourself if I'm giving them cash, or I want
5:18
Speaker 1: you to eat these just keep them in your top drawer.
5:20
Speaker 1: They're not for sharing. They're for you to take a
5:22
Speaker 1: moment of pleasure every time you need it. Right, So
5:25
Speaker 1: this is a purely selfish gift. And Volunteer number three
5:28
Speaker 1: is just going, oh, my goodness, have I scored today
5:31
Speaker 1: or what? And I kind of laugh and I'm like,
5:32
Speaker 1: who do you? Reckon is looking happy now hah. And
5:35
Speaker 1: then I go to volunteer number four, same I give
5:37
Speaker 1: them the same twenty or fifty bucks or I give
5:39
Speaker 1: them the same big box of chocolates, and I say, but,
5:42
Speaker 1: like Volunteer number two, you're going to give this away.
5:45
Speaker 1: You're not going to give the person cash, but you're
5:46
Speaker 1: going to go and spend the cash on something for someone,
5:49
Speaker 1: or you're going to share these chocolates with someone again.
5:51
Speaker 1: And everyone in the room is like share them with me,
5:54
Speaker 1: Like no, no, no, it's not anyone in the room, Like,
5:56
Speaker 1: think about somebody that you really want to make an
5:58
Speaker 1: impact in their life and do it that way. And
6:00
Speaker 1: then I ask the crowd again, Okay, who's going to
6:02
Speaker 1: be happiest this time? So what would you imagine the
6:06
Speaker 1: response is when we're talking about a bigger box of
6:08
Speaker 1: chocolates or a bigger summer money.
6:10
Speaker 2: I think it's still the same.
6:12
Speaker 1: You think that the person who gets to keep it
6:14
Speaker 1: for themselves, people would vote that they'll be the happiest. Ye,
6:16
Speaker 1: So there are always some people in the room who
6:18
Speaker 1: do vote that way, but the majority consistently. I think
6:21
Speaker 1: that teachers have had enough well being education now to know.
6:25
Speaker 1: But the majority of people start to say, oh, when
6:27
Speaker 1: you give stuff away, you actually giving things away is
6:30
Speaker 1: joy multiplied?
6:32
Speaker 2: So is that because five dollars is kind of me
6:35
Speaker 2: You can't do much with five dollars, but with fifty
6:37
Speaker 2: you can.
6:37
Speaker 1: Well that this is where it gets really interesting, because
6:40
Speaker 1: what I'll do then is I'll ask Volunteer number one
6:42
Speaker 1: and Volunteer A number three to sit down and I say,
6:44
Speaker 1: you go and be miserable with your chocolate. You're going
6:46
Speaker 1: to be miserable with your money. And everyone laughs, and
6:48
Speaker 1: I'll say, all right, so we've got volunteer number two
6:50
Speaker 1: and volunteer number four. One of them's got five bucks
6:52
Speaker 1: or fifty and the other one's got fifty or one
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Speaker 1: of them's got a small chocolate and one of them's
6:55
Speaker 1: got a big box of chocolates, and they're giving it away.
6:58
Speaker 1: And I'll say, all right, you guys have voted that
7:01
Speaker 1: out of the two pairs, the two like forul like pairs,
7:04
Speaker 1: the people giving it away are going to be the happiest.
7:06
Speaker 1: That's what the overwhelming vote was. But now we've got
7:08
Speaker 1: somebody with a big thing to give away and someone
7:10
Speaker 1: with a little thing to give away. And then I
7:12
Speaker 1: asked the question again, who's going to be happiest? How
7:15
Speaker 1: would you respond?
7:17
Speaker 2: I don't think it matters. I don't think it matters
7:19
Speaker 2: whether it's five dollars or fifty dollars.
7:21
Speaker 1: So this one's always more provocative. There are some people
7:23
Speaker 1: who are like, oh no, it hurts to give something
7:25
Speaker 1: bigger away, like that's hard, but it also feels awesome
7:28
Speaker 1: when you do it. And then there are some people
7:30
Speaker 1: who are like, oh no, you kind of feel stingy
7:32
Speaker 1: when you're giving the little thing away, So there's a
7:35
Speaker 1: little bit of a mix, but generally the answer that
7:37
Speaker 1: I get overwhelmingly is what you just said. And my
7:40
Speaker 1: response to that is, it's not what you give, it's
7:46
Speaker 1: that you give that makes you happy. So Kylie, I'm
7:50
Speaker 1: sharing that because Liz Done and Michael and Milton they
7:52
Speaker 1: did a variety of experiments and studies aligned with those
7:56
Speaker 1: kinds of ideas, and it's really fun to watch it
8:00
Speaker 1: play out. But there's more to it than that. I
8:04
Speaker 1: know you want to share something that I can see
8:06
Speaker 1: it on the tip of your tongue.
8:07
Speaker 2: So the other day, our daughter asked if she could
8:11
Speaker 2: gift her teachers something for Christmas. And I had some
8:16
Speaker 2: chocolates and I wrapped them up and made them look pretty,
8:20
Speaker 2: and she said, I really want to do something more
8:24
Speaker 2: than chocolates. She said, I know that they can't get
8:27
Speaker 2: through a day without a coffee. She said, do you
8:29
Speaker 2: think we could go and get some coffeevouchers? And I
8:31
Speaker 2: said that's fine. So we went down we got some coffeevouchers.
8:33
Speaker 2: Can I tell you it was just one coffee. It
8:36
Speaker 2: was just a free coffee with some chocolates. I actually
8:39
Speaker 2: got an email from one of the teachers. He's never
8:43
Speaker 2: in all of his teaching career received a gift from
8:46
Speaker 2: a student.
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Speaker 1: That's the first thing.
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Speaker 2: But secondly, he was so taken by the one free coffee.
8:53
Speaker 2: It was cost me six dollars. He was so taken
8:56
Speaker 2: that I would go out of my way to give
9:00
Speaker 2: tim something that it just was blown away. This email
9:05
Speaker 2: just lit me up.
9:07
Speaker 1: You never told me about this. I'm sitting here almost
9:09
Speaker 1: hearing you tell this story, and it gave him.
9:12
Speaker 2: An opportunity to tell it. He just said, he literally
9:14
Speaker 2: the words were, your daughter has been the gift this year.
9:17
Speaker 1: Oh wow, all right, there's a little bit of a
9:20
Speaker 1: little bit of flex there as well. While we're telling
9:22
Speaker 1: this story about how generous we are. Oh my goodness.
9:24
Speaker 2: It's the reason I share it is because it was
9:27
Speaker 2: such a simple act. It's five dollars. It's six dollars.
9:31
Speaker 2: It's not like I spent.
9:32
Speaker 1: You didn't send him to a wiff one hundred dollars.
9:35
Speaker 2: Or gave him an experience. His experience will be having
9:38
Speaker 2: a hot cover. Yeah, but it filled him, but it
9:41
Speaker 2: filled me in doing it without the email. It was
9:45
Speaker 2: just a really lovely thing to do.
9:46
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you shared that after the break, we're
9:48
Speaker 1: going to talk about Now that we know that giving
9:50
Speaker 1: makes us feel good, what does receiving feel like like?
9:55
Speaker 1: If you've got to open up a package that somebody
9:57
Speaker 1: is giving to you, what is the thing that's going
9:59
Speaker 1: to make you happiest as a receiver? Especially, we just
10:03
Speaker 1: want the kids to be happy on Christmas Day, so
10:05
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about it after the break. We're back.
10:13
Speaker 1: This is the Happy Families podcast about a decade of
10:15
Speaker 1: research shows that it's much nicer. Well. In fact, centuries
10:18
Speaker 1: of common wisdom says that it's better to give than
10:22
Speaker 1: to receive. But Michael Norton and has Done's research also
10:25
Speaker 1: shows this buying experiences like trips and concerts and special
10:29
Speaker 1: meals makes people happier than material things.
10:32
Speaker 2: That's because it costs more than five bucks.
10:37
Speaker 1: Whether you when you equalize things and make everything the same.
10:41
Speaker 1: Both correlational and experimental studies have shown that people who
10:44
Speaker 1: spend money on others report more happiness, and material things
10:48
Speaker 1: don't bring as much happiness as experiences.
10:51
Speaker 2: I have one gift that was tied up with a
10:53
Speaker 2: bow that you gifted me. We'd been married for about
10:58
Speaker 2: seven years, right, and no matter how long we've been married,
11:04
Speaker 2: it is still hands down my absolute favorite and every
11:10
Speaker 2: time I open it, it just fills me with joy.
11:15
Speaker 2: And it is it's a box of hand cut heart Oh.
11:20
Speaker 1: My goodness, I did like fifty you did fifty fifty
11:23
Speaker 1: things I love about you, and I typed them up
11:26
Speaker 1: on hearts and then I had to cut them out
11:28
Speaker 1: by hand. I swear to me like four days.
11:30
Speaker 2: But not only did you cut them out, you layered them.
11:33
Speaker 2: You used vellum.
11:34
Speaker 1: I don't even know what that is. That's the seat
11:36
Speaker 1: through paper, on top of.
11:37
Speaker 2: The on top of the pretty cardol the go, and
11:40
Speaker 2: then you use brads to stick them together.
11:42
Speaker 1: Are us what's theore little heart shaped things that you
11:46
Speaker 1: push through the hole.
11:47
Speaker 2: That's right?
11:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, all right, okay, So I mean sometimes gifts
11:51
Speaker 1: do matter, right, But that's not a materialistic gift. No.
11:54
Speaker 2: I was going to say to me, that's actually an experience.
11:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because you sit there and you open them
11:58
Speaker 1: and read. Yes, yeah, yep. So I want to talk
12:01
Speaker 1: about the developmental realities of what this research means. Okay,
12:03
Speaker 1: giving versus receiving. Giving feels better, right or does it?
12:07
Speaker 1: It depends how old you are in some ways.
12:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think when you're young.
12:12
Speaker 1: You just want to open stetes.
12:13
Speaker 2: That's right. The idea of giving away.
12:15
Speaker 1: And experiences or things, well, again it depends on your age.
12:18
Speaker 1: So we're almost out of time. We've talked too long
12:20
Speaker 1: just about all the other stuff, and I want to
12:22
Speaker 1: go through this fairly quickly with you. So chaplain colleagues
12:26
Speaker 1: did four studies with kids aged three to seventeen. They
12:29
Speaker 1: published it in the International Journal of Research in Marketing,
12:32
Speaker 1: and they used the child Development Framework to understand how
12:36
Speaker 1: how development and cognition, particularly memory and ability to understand
12:41
Speaker 1: the emotional states of others, impacts the way that gifts
12:44
Speaker 1: work on a day like Christmas Day. And here's what
12:46
Speaker 1: they found with kids aged zero to two. Well, let
12:51
Speaker 1: me ask you this, because again I haven't told you
12:52
Speaker 1: what's coming. Would you think that zero to two year olds.
12:55
Speaker 1: We've got a granddaughter who's just turned two. Okay, she's
12:57
Speaker 1: not three yet, so she still fits in that zero
12:58
Speaker 1: to two category. It's up to the age of three.
13:00
Speaker 1: Do you think that she's more excited about getting or
13:03
Speaker 1: giving are getting? You would be wrong, You'd be wrong.
13:07
Speaker 1: The research shows that totles exhibit greater happiness when giving
13:10
Speaker 1: treats to others than receiving treats themselves. Children are happier
13:14
Speaker 1: after engaging in costly gift giving forfeiting their own resources
13:18
Speaker 1: than when giving the same treat at no cost, according
13:20
Speaker 1: to the researchers, I think that's fascinating, which I think
13:25
Speaker 1: just highlights that innately we are pro social, we are
13:27
Speaker 1: supposed to be generous. I just love that. Okay, three
13:30
Speaker 1: to twelve year olds three to twelve year olds, young children?
13:34
Speaker 1: Do they want to give or receive received? No, they do?
13:37
Speaker 1: And do they want to receive material things or experiences materials?
13:41
Speaker 2: Oh? They do.
13:43
Speaker 1: The researchers said this, goods are much more concrete and
13:46
Speaker 1: require less reasoning about intention on mental states compared to experiences.
13:50
Speaker 1: I don't want to think about what you were thinking
13:52
Speaker 1: when you got this thing for me. I don't want
13:53
Speaker 1: to have to imagine what it's going to be like,
13:55
Speaker 1: anticipating that we're going to do that thing in three months.
13:58
Speaker 1: I just want to open this thing and be excited
13:59
Speaker 1: about about it now. And now I've opened it, I
14:01
Speaker 1: want another thing to open so I can be excited
14:03
Speaker 1: about that as well. The research has found that young
14:05
Speaker 1: children clearly indicate the material goods give them more pleasure.
14:08
Speaker 1: It's important to understand. They say that even young children
14:11
Speaker 1: derive happiness from their experiences. However, when the event is passed,
14:15
Speaker 1: their thoughts are more dominated by the material gifts or
14:18
Speaker 1: souvenirs they can see in touch, which is kind of
14:21
Speaker 1: annoying for us because we're trying to make this meaningful
14:24
Speaker 1: for reeconds. But they don't care. They don't want meaning,
14:25
Speaker 1: They just want materialism. Okay, this one's where it gets interesting.
14:29
Speaker 1: Thirteen to seventeen year olds adolescence. What do you think
14:32
Speaker 1: experiences or things?
14:35
Speaker 2: I think it's a mix.
14:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, because their cognitions are becoming more sophisticated. Yeah, the
14:41
Speaker 1: research actually shows that they're probably going to be a
14:42
Speaker 1: little bit more disappointed when they open up the experience
14:45
Speaker 1: and find out they've got to wait, but they'll love
14:47
Speaker 1: it more. They'll they'll enjoy it more, and they'll remember
14:49
Speaker 1: it more and they'll have all those good feelings. So
14:51
Speaker 1: you mentioned it in the intro. There's this idea that, oh, oh,
14:54
Speaker 1: you kind of alluded to it. You didn't mention it specifically,
14:56
Speaker 1: but there's this idea when when you open up up
15:01
Speaker 1: a gift and it's experience on Christmas Day. You've had
15:04
Speaker 1: all the anticipation leading up to Christmas Day, which makes
15:07
Speaker 1: you excited about opening the gift. And you open it
15:09
Speaker 1: and there's actually a little b of a letdown. It's like, oh,
15:11
Speaker 1: I don't have something right now. But then you see
15:12
Speaker 1: the gift, You're like, it's happening in February or April
15:15
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. Oh, and now you've got another
15:18
Speaker 1: couple of months to look forward to it. So the
15:19
Speaker 1: anticipation builds again, and then you have the experience. It's
15:21
Speaker 1: a joint experience, so you get to do it with
15:23
Speaker 1: somebody else and that's wonderful. Oh my goodness, so good.
15:26
Speaker 1: And then you've got the memory as well. And so
15:28
Speaker 1: experiences work better on a range of complex ways different domains.
15:34
Speaker 1: Experiences work better. But your kids have got to be
15:37
Speaker 1: old enough to be able to experience the joy ongoingly.
15:42
Speaker 1: That is pretty much what the research shows about how
15:46
Speaker 1: to give great gifts.
15:47
Speaker 2: So what are we doing this year?
15:49
Speaker 1: We're giving tangible or experience all the stuff. Ho ho
15:57
Speaker 1: Monkey had this great experience as a family of great experience.
16:02
Speaker 1: I mean, we had our moment, but it was a
16:04
Speaker 1: great experience and created the memories. So that's that's that.
16:07
Speaker 1: But I really, I mean we're working hard on shifting
16:10
Speaker 1: the focus towards more experiences, and I think as time
16:14
Speaker 1: goes by and as our kids get older, they become
16:16
Speaker 1: much more meaningful. Anyway, that's the psychology of Christmas gift giving.
16:20
Speaker 1: We hope that you've enjoyed the podcast and gotten heaps
16:22
Speaker 1: of ideas out of it, and we hope that you
16:24
Speaker 1: can get a refund on everything that you've wropped up
16:28
Speaker 1: and put underneath the tree. The Happy Families podcast is
16:30
Speaker 1: produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media. Mim Hammonds provides research,
16:33
Speaker 1: admen and other support, and you can get more information
16:36
Speaker 1: and resources about making your family happier at happy families
16:39
Speaker 1: dot com dot au