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Trump Threatens New EU Tariffs · Balance of Power

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
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Speaker 2: American airstrikes shortly after Iran reportedly rejected a ceasefire proposal
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Speaker 2: that had been delivered to Washington by Iraq's prime minister.
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Speaker 2: This could be a very interesting and informative weekend of
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Speaker 2: the future of this conflict. And it's where we start
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Speaker 2: with Bloomberg White House correspondent Jeff Mason, who is on
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Speaker 2: the North lawn right now. Jeff, will there be a
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Speaker 2: fourteenth straight night?
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Speaker 3: You know, if past this prologue there probably will be, Joe,
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Speaker 3: I don't have any specific intel on that, but the
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Speaker 3: President has shown certainly over the last two weeks that
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Speaker 3: he wants to increase attacks and to continue these attacks
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Speaker 3: that started a little over two weeks ago. When or
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Speaker 3: roughly two weeks ago, I should say, when the ceasefire
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Speaker 3: collapse and the memo of understanding was essentially thrown in
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Speaker 3: the trash, not a great spot right now between those
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Speaker 3: two countries, but there are seemingly some efforts by outside
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Speaker 3: mediators to try to get them back to the table.
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Speaker 3: Are friends at Reuters reporting earlier that Pakistan was pursuing
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Speaker 3: another option or way to get the two sides back
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Speaker 3: at the table, and that has helped the markets a
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Speaker 3: little bit. I think markets generally are just looking for
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Speaker 3: any signs of hope that this conflict is not going
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Speaker 3: to continue to escalate and continue to escalate. Obviously, you
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Speaker 3: then also have sort of the opposite type of reporting
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Speaker 3: from Axios suggesting that the President is looking at even
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Speaker 3: a bigger attack or a bigger use of military force
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Speaker 3: against Iran. So we're gonna ask him about that this afternoon.
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Speaker 3: He's holding an event to the Oval Office, and I'm
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Speaker 3: expecting to be there and we'll try to get a
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Speaker 3: couple questions out.
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Speaker 2: I'll be deeply curious to hear what he said. Jeff. Indeed,
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Speaker 2: bigger than ever before, was the quote to Axios. I'm
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Speaker 2: close to making a decision. We're all set for it.
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Speaker 2: Listen to the way the President framed the war with
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Speaker 2: Iran when he was speaking yesterday.
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Speaker 4: We're doing very well against the Islamic Republic of Iran.
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Speaker 4: We're doing extremely well. They would like to do something,
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Speaker 4: but I say they're not ready yet. We want to
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Speaker 4: get it over with and we want to do it right.
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Speaker 4: We have to do what we came to do, and
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Speaker 4: as we can't let these people, very violent people, we
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Speaker 4: can't let them have what.
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Speaker 2: They want at every turn. We're doing extremely well, Jeff.
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Speaker 2: You've heard him say it. He has even said it
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Speaker 2: directly to you. He's also claimed victory more than two
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Speaker 2: dozen times over the course of five months. Do we
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Speaker 2: actually know what the president thinks about the state of
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Speaker 2: this war?
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Speaker 3: You know, I appreciate that you use that two doesn't
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Speaker 3: figure Joe, because it's emblematic of the mixed messages that
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Speaker 3: he has given about this war really from the very
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Speaker 3: beginning and throughout. And it also, I think you asked
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Speaker 3: me what he's thinking. I think that that's also sort
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Speaker 3: of a window into what he's thinking, because this is
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Speaker 3: a president who wants victory on all sides. He wants
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Speaker 3: to be able to say that he was a historic
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Speaker 3: president who took on a challenge with Iran that other
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Speaker 3: presidents had not, and he likes and he says that repeatedly,
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Speaker 3: but he also has voiced fears of becoming a president
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Speaker 3: who presides over an economic downfall like the Great Depression.
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Speaker 3: He doesn't want that, and that was one of the
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Speaker 3: things that he cited when he ended or said he
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Speaker 3: was ending the war a few weeks ago. So it's
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Speaker 3: a lot, and it's a lot to decipher, and it's
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Speaker 3: a lot of back and forth and contradiction. There are
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Speaker 3: also lots of different opinions about it.
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Speaker 5: Within his own party.
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Speaker 3: There are people on the right who would like to
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Speaker 3: see President Trump and this administration really continue this war
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Speaker 3: against Iran and do even more to ensure that Tehran
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Speaker 3: is unable to get a nuclear weapon, Whereas there are
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Speaker 3: others who I think are also concerned about the Republican
4:17
Speaker 3: prospects in the midterm election if gasoline prices continue to
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Speaker 3: go up and if this conflict continues.
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Speaker 2: Let's talk tariffs, Jeff Mason, We've got a new round here,
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Speaker 2: replacing those that are expiring those temporary tariffs following the
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Speaker 2: Supreme Court ruling. Everyone's becoming an expert on this stuff.
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Speaker 2: This is section three oh one, a four hundred and
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Speaker 2: thirty one page filing in the Federal Register and it's
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Speaker 2: aimed at well teriffs between ten and twelve and a
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Speaker 2: half percent, aimed in many cases at our trading partners
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Speaker 2: or allies, including the EU. Jeff, this is on the
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Speaker 2: grounds of forced labor. What do we know about it?
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Speaker 5: Yeah, including the EU is right that.
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Speaker 3: And you're throwing out three zero in the same way
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Speaker 3: that lots of people are throwing out three zero win,
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Speaker 3: which used to mean nothing, I think to many people.
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Speaker 5: But it means a lot in the trade world.
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Speaker 3: So spot on with that figure there.
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Speaker 6: It is.
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Speaker 3: It is the workaround that the administration is using to
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Speaker 3: continue tariffs against basically a good chunk of the rest
5:19
Speaker 3: of the world, including very close US allies. As far
5:23
Speaker 3: as that particular reasoning that you mentioned in terms of
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Speaker 3: forced labor, that's the that's the crux that they have
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Speaker 3: hinged this on or or attached this to. I am
5:34
Speaker 3: curious to see more of the details about where they
5:37
Speaker 3: are seeing forced labor in these supply chains, certainly from
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Speaker 3: a block like the European Union, which is also pretty
5:43
Speaker 3: sensitive to those things. I would think that they'd have
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Speaker 3: to have something.
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Speaker 2: To show for it, Jeff, Right while you were speaking,
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Speaker 2: the President just post that I think he's watching this again.
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Speaker 2: We're running headlines across the terminal right now. I want
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Speaker 2: you to hear this. They're starting a three h one
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Speaker 2: probe into the practice of the European Union, he says,
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Speaker 2: robbing US firms. The European Union, he says, is added
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Speaker 2: again taking direct aim at great American companies. After having
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Speaker 2: fined Apple for no reason at all, fifteen billion dollars,
6:14
Speaker 2: met A three billion, Amazon two and a half, and
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Speaker 2: many others. We have just been informed that Google has
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Speaker 2: been fined another billion dollars without explanation. I read down here.
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Speaker 2: It's a very long post. He says. The US is
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Speaker 2: not a piggybank for Europe and a three ZHO one
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Speaker 2: investigation will be immediately initiated into the practice of robbing
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Speaker 2: American companies and in turn the American taxpayer. Jeffy says,
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Speaker 2: the EU will pay a very big price for this
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Speaker 2: illegal and highly unethical conduct. This sounds like a lot
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Speaker 2: more than forced labor.
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Speaker 3: Yes it does, and let's unpack a little bit of that.
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Speaker 3: Without even having seen the post, and thanks for reading
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Speaker 3: it out loud. Oh, One thing I can tell you
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Speaker 3: as a former EU correspondent is that the European Union,
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Speaker 3: and particularly the European Commits, which is the EU's executive
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Speaker 3: based in Brussels, has brought authority over anti trust and
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Speaker 3: their anti trust department or the part of the Commission
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Speaker 3: that does anti trust is the one, or is the
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Speaker 3: part of the Commission that is taking on some of
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Speaker 3: these big US technology companies. That is not the same
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Speaker 3: as trading practice. It's an anti trust practice, if I'm
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Speaker 3: understanding correctly what the President is complaining about. So that
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Speaker 3: would raise questions for me as a reporter about what
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Speaker 3: kind of legal maneuvers or legal challenges that the EU
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Speaker 3: might now take, not even with regard to retaliation, but
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Speaker 3: with regard to fighting this measure in an international court
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Speaker 3: of some kind. I don't know the answer to that,
7:45
Speaker 3: but just throwing that out there, but broadly back to
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Speaker 3: our discussion about what the President is thinking. The President
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Speaker 3: doesn't see those that differentiation. He sees it as Europe
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Speaker 3: taking or attacking US companies and taking money away, and
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Speaker 3: so he's using the only thing that he often uses
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Speaker 3: as a tool to prevent that, and that is these tariffs.
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Speaker 2: I guess we'll have to see what the level will be, Jeff.
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Speaker 2: He says, the penalties will be entirely reversed, and we
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Speaker 2: anticipate a substantial tariff to be placed on them at
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Speaker 2: the earliest possible moment. I'm really glad we were with
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Speaker 2: Jeff Mason when this story broke. Jeff, thank you so
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Speaker 2: much with your institutional knowledge here on the EU. A
8:26
Speaker 2: fascinating story. He's our White House correspondent live of course,
8:30
Speaker 2: on the North Lawn, and we want to assemble our
8:32
Speaker 2: panel for their take on this breaking story. We'll get
8:35
Speaker 2: to what's happening with Iran, but the tariffs are leading
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Speaker 2: the day here. It was already a major story with
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Speaker 2: the implementation of these three to zero one tariffs for
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Speaker 2: some sixty economies that the White House says has forced
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Speaker 2: labor in their supply chains. Bloomberg Politics contributor Genie Shanzano
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Speaker 2: is with us, our democratic analyst and democracy visiting fellow
8:56
Speaker 2: at Harvard Kennedy School's Ash Center, and we're joined as
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Speaker 2: well by Katie Frost, a Republican strategist political director at
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Speaker 2: the American Principles Project. Katie, this is an interesting moment.
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Speaker 2: After the White House struck down the tariffs, the President
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Speaker 2: has managed to rebuild a good chunk of what people
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Speaker 2: call his tariff wall, and it looks like there's more
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Speaker 2: coming based on what he's writing about the European Union.
9:23
Speaker 2: Does this make you nervous in a world where we're
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Speaker 2: already seeing an economy where we're already seeing rising prices
9:28
Speaker 2: because of the war in Iran?
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Speaker 7: You know, I've long held that tariffs are something that
9:33
Speaker 7: should be a tool and use negotiations. And the President Trump,
9:36
Speaker 7: of course, we know he loves to negotiate, but for
9:39
Speaker 7: far too long we had countries that would have a
9:41
Speaker 7: tariff in place, and we did not at least have
9:43
Speaker 7: a mirror tariff of that. So that's something I've long
9:45
Speaker 7: been an advocate for. But we'll have to see how
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Speaker 7: these different countries want to negotiate and finalize these deals.
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Speaker 7: And as we saw previously, there were several times when
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Speaker 7: the President would talk about a tariff and all of
9:56
Speaker 7: a sudden, people wanted to get to the table and
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Speaker 7: have a conversation. So I will wait to judge until
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Speaker 7: we see the final product. But if we're talking about
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Speaker 7: something like forced labor, I think that's something we should
10:07
Speaker 7: all be able to agree on. There's a reason we
10:09
Speaker 7: haven't allowed certain imports from regions like where the weaker
10:12
Speaker 7: concentration camps are in China, which if there is forced
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Speaker 7: labor and slave labor being used in the production of
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Speaker 7: those products, those products have no place being in the United.
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Speaker 2: States well, and apparently they have no place in the
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Speaker 2: EU according to the administration. Jennie, and the EU is
10:28
Speaker 2: taking some issue with the forced labor allegations. Weigh in
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Speaker 2: on that, as you see fit, the EU is going
10:35
Speaker 2: to be getting more It sounds like based on these
10:37
Speaker 2: penalties to as he mentioned, Google, Apple, Meta and more.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean to impose these tariffs, which are not
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Speaker 8: anything but taxes on the American public. The President, using
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Speaker 8: three oh one, has to show that these fifty nine
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Speaker 8: countries plus the twenty seven EU nations are engaged in
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Speaker 8: forced labor at least they are in their supply chain.
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Speaker 8: And that is something that as far as we can tell,
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Speaker 8: we have not seen the evidence of. So whether or
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Speaker 8: not the administration can produce that as critical on the
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Speaker 8: heels of that. Just hours after imposing these the President
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Speaker 8: takes to truth Social with those posts you were reading
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Speaker 8: to Jeff Mason and he says, oh, by the way,
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Speaker 8: this might not be anything to do with forced labor.
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Speaker 8: Apparently this has to do with antitrust. I don't like
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Speaker 8: how you are treating our big tech companies, Google and
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Speaker 8: the rest. Well, this is a big question for the administration.
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Speaker 2: Which is it?
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Speaker 8: And you've got people in Congress, You've got senators, You've
11:45
Speaker 8: got people like Linda Sanchez, You've got people like Ron
11:48
Speaker 8: Wyden who are saying we need to pull this power
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Speaker 8: back from the president because he is misusing it. I
11:55
Speaker 8: will tell you one consistent theme in every report we've
11:59
Speaker 8: heard today, even before the President posted about the anti trust,
12:04
Speaker 8: is this has nothing to do with forced labor. This
12:07
Speaker 8: is a workaround for the president because his ability to
12:11
Speaker 8: impose his favorite tool, tariffs, was stripped by the Supreme
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Speaker 8: Court and the minute literally last night when those last
12:19
Speaker 8: set were pulled back. He then imposed these using forced
12:25
Speaker 8: labor as an excuse. So the big question here is
12:29
Speaker 8: can he and the administration show evidence of forced labor?
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Speaker 8: And what is he talking about about the anti trust
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Speaker 8: if that is coming into play here? Three to oh
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Speaker 8: one isn't going to give him the tool he needs
12:42
Speaker 8: to be able.
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Speaker 2: To do this legally well, and you know that they
12:45
Speaker 2: are going to be court challenges coming here. What do
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Speaker 2: you make of this post, Katie that the President just
12:51
Speaker 2: made upping the ante when it comes to the fines
12:54
Speaker 2: that he says are for no reason at all against
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Speaker 2: some of our biggest tech companies Meta, Amazon, Google and others.
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Speaker 2: Isolated in this note, he says, the United States of
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Speaker 2: America is not a piggyback for Europe. Do you think
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Speaker 2: we are?
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Speaker 7: Well, it certainly seems like they expect us to bail
13:14
Speaker 7: them out whenever something is happening over there. And you know,
13:17
Speaker 7: there was the old joke that everybody talks about in
13:19
Speaker 7: America we are the back to back World War champions.
13:22
Speaker 7: But look, at the end of the day, you know
13:24
Speaker 7: that anyone who represents those companies is going to make
13:27
Speaker 7: sure that they're advocating for their best interests, which we should.
13:30
Speaker 7: But we also need to have someone who's avocating for
13:31
Speaker 7: the best interests of the American people, and that's supposed
13:34
Speaker 7: to be the President of the United States. And if
13:36
Speaker 7: Europe is doing anything that impacts negtalily are economy, there
13:39
Speaker 7: needs to be something done about that. And I agree
13:43
Speaker 7: with Jane, we're not We don't know what the final
13:45
Speaker 7: version of this is going to be. And there will
13:47
Speaker 7: be a lot of court cases about this. If there's
13:50
Speaker 7: one thing we have more of than the DC than lobbyists.
13:52
Speaker 5: It's lawyers.
13:53
Speaker 7: So you know they're going to be suing over these regulations.
13:56
Speaker 7: But we have to see what the final product will be.
13:58
Speaker 7: No one really has an answer right now.
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Speaker 2: Let's turn to Iran if we can. Genie, we haven't
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Speaker 2: heard from you yet today on this. With the President
14:07
Speaker 2: taking to truth Social as well to talk about China's
14:10
Speaker 2: promise and Russia's promise to not provide weapons to Iran.
14:14
Speaker 2: We had a thirteenth straight night of bombing last evening,
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Speaker 2: and we're going to be talking more with the missile
14:19
Speaker 2: expert at CSIS coming up here about strategy. But are
14:23
Speaker 2: you concerned that we are on the verge of all
14:25
Speaker 2: out war once again?
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Speaker 8: Well, I am, based, you know, in part on the
14:31
Speaker 8: president's comments, and the fact is it's becoming increasingly tough
14:36
Speaker 8: to take what he says at to take him at
14:39
Speaker 8: his word on any of this. At the same time,
14:42
Speaker 8: he is telling the American public in Georgia that apparently
14:47
Speaker 8: Iran wants desperately to negotiate, but he's not ready. He
14:52
Speaker 8: then we get reporting out of the New York Times,
14:54
Speaker 8: which says that he sent and I think he should
14:57
Speaker 8: be doing this an attempt to negotiate a deal with
15:00
Speaker 8: them that they rejected. So which is it. We've got
15:03
Speaker 8: to be able to trust the president and the administration.
15:07
Speaker 8: Not to mention, Joe reports that they pulled down the
15:11
Speaker 8: number of casualties that were posted from eighteen to fourteen,
15:16
Speaker 8: saying the four men and women who returned to Dover
15:19
Speaker 8: Air Force Base the other day did not die during
15:22
Speaker 8: the war. Because this came after the MoU That is
15:27
Speaker 8: an astonishing thing to do. And hopefully I haven't checked
15:30
Speaker 8: in the last few minutes, has been rectified. But this
15:32
Speaker 8: is an administration that is saying things that don't match
15:37
Speaker 8: with the reality of what we're hearing, and we need
15:39
Speaker 8: to be able to trust them on things as basic
15:42
Speaker 8: as are you attempting to negotiate? How much has this
15:45
Speaker 8: war cost? How many casualties and wounded have we had?
15:49
Speaker 8: How much more money do you need? And increasingly that's
15:52
Speaker 8: becoming difficult.
15:54
Speaker 2: All Right, We've had a great panel, and I want
15:56
Speaker 2: to thank both of you, Genie Shanzo and Katie Frost
15:59
Speaker 2: for sharing you insights on another breaking news day here
16:02
Speaker 2: in Washington. Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll
16:06
Speaker 2: have much more coming up after this.
16:10
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Speaker 2: We're live in Washington on Balance of Power. I'm Joe
16:32
Speaker 2: Matthew Kayley. Lines is off today and we do have
16:34
Speaker 2: breaking news on a story that we touched earlier in
16:37
Speaker 2: the program, the competition among states to become first in
16:41
Speaker 2: line for the Democratic primary process when we get together
16:46
Speaker 2: to choose another president. As we mentioned to you, Nevada
16:50
Speaker 2: and South Carolina were considered contenders to be first in line,
16:54
Speaker 2: and the Associated Press now reports that South Carolina was
16:57
Speaker 2: in fact selected to lead off the Democratic part He's
17:00
Speaker 2: twenty twenty eight presidential nominating schedule. This is the DNC
17:04
Speaker 2: Rules and Bylaws Committee holding up at the Salamander Hotel
17:09
Speaker 2: here in Washington, d C. And they've been at it
17:12
Speaker 2: making arguments for a couple of days, and according to
17:14
Speaker 2: some it's been a knockdown, drag out fight. The decision
17:18
Speaker 2: will need to be approved by the full DNC to
17:21
Speaker 2: be clear, which is scheduled to meet in August. And
17:25
Speaker 2: now you can brace for the reaction that will come
17:27
Speaker 2: from many states, beginning with Iowa and New Hampshire, who
17:31
Speaker 2: will be very much looking to maintain their first in
17:35
Speaker 2: line order. Of course, Iowa kicks things off, or has
17:38
Speaker 2: historically with the presidential caucuses. New Hampshire the first in
17:43
Speaker 2: the nation primary state, which has a state law on
17:46
Speaker 2: the books that says it must go first, and so
17:49
Speaker 2: it will likely jump the line if history is any
17:52
Speaker 2: guide here, and could in fact be penalized again. The
17:54
Speaker 2: state was stripped of its delegates in the last cycle,
17:57
Speaker 2: which is why there was a write in campaign for
18:01
Speaker 2: Joe Biden. We're back to the situation in Iran, as
18:05
Speaker 2: promised with a thirteenth straight night of attacks after Iran
18:09
Speaker 2: reportedly rejected a cease fire offer that was delivered on
18:14
Speaker 2: behalf of Washington by the Iraqi Prime Minister, and based
18:19
Speaker 2: on what we have been seeing with Iran continuing to
18:23
Speaker 2: attack vessels in the Strait of Hormuz and even employing
18:27
Speaker 2: the Huthis to do the same in the Red Sea.
18:30
Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal reports that Iran has proven it retains
18:34
Speaker 2: a significant missile and drone arsenal that it continues to
18:39
Speaker 2: use and threaten American forces, even as the President has
18:42
Speaker 2: claimed to have totally destroyed Iran's military. It's where we
18:47
Speaker 2: start our conversation with Tom Karriko, a real expert, as
18:51
Speaker 2: we try to understand what exactly the capabilities are that
18:54
Speaker 2: Iran still retains. He's the director of the Missile Defense
18:58
Speaker 2: Project and senior Fellow in the Defense and Security Department
19:02
Speaker 2: at the Center for Strategic and International Studies CSIS right
19:07
Speaker 2: here in Washington. Tom, Welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio.
19:10
Speaker 2: Is it possible to answer that question, do we know
19:13
Speaker 2: how many missiles Iran has left?
19:16
Speaker 9: Well, the President about a month ago said that Iran
19:19
Speaker 9: had about twenty one percent of its missile force still intact,
19:24
Speaker 9: and he added that's still quite a lot unfortunately. I mean,
19:28
Speaker 9: I think just the fact that, yes, we've been bombing
19:30
Speaker 9: them the last thirteen days, but they keep managing to
19:33
Speaker 9: get missiles off, and it's the fact that the missiles
19:35
Speaker 9: are getting off the ground in the first place just
19:39
Speaker 9: speaks to the fact that we've not sufficiently created either
19:42
Speaker 9: the missiles themselves or their launch infrastructure. It's a reminder
19:45
Speaker 9: that the whole desire to do things left of launch
19:49
Speaker 9: before the missiles are launched, while highly desirable, is also
19:53
Speaker 9: very hard. Scud hunting is hard, and Iran has built
19:57
Speaker 9: an infrastructure learning from the North Koreans and other folks
20:00
Speaker 9: and watching the way in which the United States conducts
20:04
Speaker 9: strikes over the many over the last several decades that
20:07
Speaker 9: have been able to ride out these attacks, Unfortunately, more
20:10
Speaker 9: than we would have liked.
20:12
Speaker 2: Remarkably well, tom As I read in the story here,
20:15
Speaker 2: and I should note that you were quoted in it.
20:17
Speaker 2: The strike on the air base Friday that killed three
20:20
Speaker 2: Americans was carried out by they say likely Tehran's most
20:23
Speaker 2: effective missiles, including the key bar Chican medium range system
20:28
Speaker 2: that and others housed in vast underground facilities that the
20:32
Speaker 2: US and Israel spent weeks pounding in March and April.
20:35
Speaker 2: Since then, Iran has dug them out and resumed firing
20:38
Speaker 2: from those same bases. Are we not able to destroy them?
20:43
Speaker 9: Look, it's likely a circuitous maze of missile launch points.
20:48
Speaker 9: Iran has actually put video of some of these underground
20:51
Speaker 9: missile cities or these underground tunnels online over the years,
20:55
Speaker 9: and it's.
20:55
Speaker 5: A pretty clever concept.
20:58
Speaker 9: You basically got a road drive around, and then you
21:01
Speaker 9: have little holes that in the surface that pop up,
21:03
Speaker 9: and so it's designed to be resilient. It's designed to
21:07
Speaker 9: be able to move things around and have the aspect
21:10
Speaker 9: of deception in terms of making it harder to figure
21:13
Speaker 9: out where where.
21:15
Speaker 5: An individual missile is at any given time.
21:17
Speaker 9: So when you bury things underground, you have the benefit
21:21
Speaker 9: of a passive defense to make it harder to be struck.
21:26
Speaker 2: Interesting these are I presume the sites that we're going
21:29
Speaker 2: back to hit now for a second or third time.
21:31
Speaker 2: When you hear the President talk about additional targets, how
21:36
Speaker 2: many of them have already been hit.
21:40
Speaker 9: I don't know the number off hand, but I think
21:44
Speaker 9: what you're pointing to, in part is the challenge of
21:47
Speaker 9: doing everything from the air. This is a lesson that, unfortunately,
21:52
Speaker 9: we have to remind ourselves of or relearn. It seems
21:55
Speaker 9: like every decade or so that the desire American air
21:58
Speaker 9: power is exquisite, to be sure, but it is very
22:02
Speaker 9: hard to be able to do everything from the air
22:05
Speaker 9: from a standoff capability the land domain. We talk about
22:09
Speaker 9: all the domain operations, but land domain is the domain
22:12
Speaker 9: on which most human beings spend most of their time,
22:15
Speaker 9: and that's where politics happens, that's where stuff exists. And
22:19
Speaker 9: so it's difficult from a military perspective to be able
22:22
Speaker 9: to not kidding, accomplish all of your objectives without being there,
22:26
Speaker 9: without sending in forces.
22:27
Speaker 5: And so that's not something I want to do. But
22:29
Speaker 5: that's just the challenge.
22:31
Speaker 2: Well, I guess I'm winding up to a question about
22:33
Speaker 2: whether Iran is simply digging out these missiles because they
22:37
Speaker 2: were very carefully stored underground, or if they're may be
22:40
Speaker 2: getting new ones. And the President posted on truth Social today,
22:42
Speaker 2: I'd love your thoughts on this. Referring to President she
22:45
Speaker 2: he said told me he would not, under any circumstances
22:48
Speaker 2: give or sell weapons to Iran. That statement included Chinese companies,
22:53
Speaker 2: he says. He says, likewise, President Putin told me he
22:57
Speaker 2: would not sell weapons to Iran, and he understands that
22:59
Speaker 2: I do not sell weapons to Ukraine, but to NATO countries.
23:04
Speaker 2: What's the point of this. Does the President believe that
23:08
Speaker 2: China or Russia may be providing weapons.
23:12
Speaker 9: Well, the quote would seem to suggest that he'd like
23:16
Speaker 9: to believe they weren't. I think the good money, the
23:19
Speaker 9: good bet is that of course they are. And why
23:21
Speaker 9: would they be doing that, because it's too great a temptation,
23:25
Speaker 9: not too frankly, Yes, Admittedly, through NATO, the United States
23:30
Speaker 9: has of course been providing weapons but also targeting information
23:35
Speaker 9: to the Ukrainians to resist the Russian invaders. So in
23:39
Speaker 9: addition to the likely prospect of stuff going into Iran,
23:42
Speaker 9: there's been a number of news reports on that front,
23:46
Speaker 9: there's also the reports that maybe the Chinese or the
23:49
Speaker 9: Russians are assisting with targeting information. So the United States
23:53
Speaker 9: bases in cutter and Bahrain, and yes, in Jordan where
23:56
Speaker 9: the service members were just killed, it's hard not to
24:01
Speaker 9: think that targeting information could be helping the Iranians out
24:04
Speaker 9: a lot. And there again, it's probably just too great
24:06
Speaker 9: a temptation for the Russians of the Chinese not to
24:09
Speaker 9: be assisting.
24:11
Speaker 2: Wow, that's really important, Tom. I'm looking at the defense
24:14
Speaker 2: contractors today. They're reaching higher again after a big rally
24:19
Speaker 2: yesterday and RTX Lockheed they had earnings reports and it
24:23
Speaker 2: brings us to the question right now there you see
24:26
Speaker 2: it on your screen. RTX is up another two percent.
24:29
Speaker 2: Lockheed is up even more than that. The question about
24:33
Speaker 2: our own stockpiles, Tom, These are the two companies, among others,
24:37
Speaker 2: that stand a benefit from a massive purchase of missiles, interceptors,
24:41
Speaker 2: and other munitions that we have spent in the war
24:45
Speaker 2: in Iran and of course in providing weapons support to Ukraine.
24:49
Speaker 2: How badly does the Pentagon need the money it's asking
24:52
Speaker 2: for right now? There's a supplemental budget request that's on
24:55
Speaker 2: the table in Congress. It just passed the House. Pentagon
24:58
Speaker 2: officials Pete Hegseth test deifying earlier in the week, say
25:01
Speaker 2: they're already moving training schedules around, moving money around because
25:05
Speaker 2: they need the cash. What do we need to buy?
25:08
Speaker 2: What's our state of munitions in our stockpiles?
25:12
Speaker 9: Yeah, So the bad news is that it is not
25:16
Speaker 9: a very good situation at all. We have, i would say,
25:20
Speaker 9: figured out a good plan that was begun last May
25:24
Speaker 9: of twenty twenty five to begin what it's called a
25:26
Speaker 9: munition's ramp to build up about a dozen change prioritize munitions.
25:32
Speaker 9: The two companies that you cited there are the primary
25:36
Speaker 9: providers of those offensive and defensive missiles.
25:41
Speaker 5: That was a good plan. There were announcements, heads of.
25:45
Speaker 9: Agreement, agreements to agree that were announced in December and
25:49
Speaker 9: then in January and February.
25:50
Speaker 5: Of this year. But the bad news that's all good.
25:53
Speaker 9: The bad news is they haven't been contractor almost nothing
25:57
Speaker 9: has been contracted to do that. Innuary, when Congress passed
26:01
Speaker 9: twenty twenty six appropriations, they said that they were twenty
26:05
Speaker 9: eight point eight billion dollars short of the Pentagon's request
26:09
Speaker 9: just for munitions. That was before Epic Fury. Things have
26:13
Speaker 9: gotten a lot worse now. The supplemental bill that you
26:15
Speaker 9: reference there, assuming you can get through Congress, would basically
26:20
Speaker 9: finish up that earlier shortfall, but it doesn't even get
26:24
Speaker 9: after the munition shortfall from Epic Fury. And yes, the
26:27
Speaker 9: numbers of offensive and defensive missiles that have been expended
26:31
Speaker 9: in this conflict is frankly shocking, and it is something
26:34
Speaker 9: that's ever written. Is frankly degrading our deterrence and defensibilities
26:39
Speaker 9: in the Pacific.
26:40
Speaker 2: For instance, we've only got a minute left, Tom, you said, Pacific,
26:44
Speaker 2: could we wage war against China right now? While we're
26:46
Speaker 2: doing this with a run.
26:49
Speaker 5: The United States could, but it would be much harder.
26:53
Speaker 9: And the other thing is what I really worry about
26:56
Speaker 9: is that we are essentially tempting China to do something
27:00
Speaker 9: because we are from a military posture moving stuff out
27:04
Speaker 9: of the Pacific. It just makes it that much more
27:07
Speaker 9: tempting for them to pick a fight with the Philippines
27:09
Speaker 9: or with Taiwan or whomever. And so that's what I
27:13
Speaker 9: really worry about, is that the folks and Beijing are
27:16
Speaker 9: sitting there clicking away on a hand clicker. For every
27:19
Speaker 9: Patriot missile that we fire and every Tomahawk missile that
27:22
Speaker 9: we fire, they're doing a lot of clicking, and it's
27:25
Speaker 9: not a good situation.
27:27
Speaker 2: They're counting the bullets as we fire them. Tom, You're
27:29
Speaker 2: great and I appreciate your analysis very much. With great
27:32
Speaker 2: work at the Missile Defense Project at CSIS. Tom Carrico,
27:38
Speaker 2: Ireland's ambassador to the US, is on the way in next.
27:41
Speaker 1: Here on Bloomberg, you're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of
27:48
Speaker 1: Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and five
27:52
Speaker 1: pm Eastern on Almalcarchley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg
27:55
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27:59
Speaker 1: or watch live on YouTube.
28:02
Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. Thanks for spending some time
28:05
Speaker 2: with us as we talk tariffs today. There's actually a
28:07
Speaker 2: lot of tariff news which can make things a bit confusing.
28:10
Speaker 2: The White House today implementing, as expected, a new round
28:13
Speaker 2: of tariffs on our trading partners to replace those that
28:16
Speaker 2: were put in place temporarily following the Supreme Court ruling.
28:20
Speaker 2: It's ten to twelve and a half percent applied to
28:24
Speaker 2: sixty different economies and the justification of forced labor. This
28:28
Speaker 2: is section three zero one replacing Section one twenty two. Now,
28:33
Speaker 2: that's separate from what the President is threatening to drop
28:37
Speaker 2: on Canada, the most recent round, a fresh fifty percent
28:41
Speaker 2: tariff on some Canadian goods milk, hockey equipment, beer, and plywood,
28:51
Speaker 2: as opposed to those in some cases including energy, that
28:54
Speaker 2: are covered by the USMCA over what the United States
28:58
Speaker 2: or the Trump administration says unfair treatment of American alcohol, cars,
29:04
Speaker 2: and dairy. Now, to that end, there was supposed to
29:08
Speaker 2: be a dedication ceremony today for a new bridge, the
29:11
Speaker 2: Gordy Howe Bridge, connecting the US and Canada right there
29:14
Speaker 2: in Detroit. President writing on true social Canada disinvited the
29:19
Speaker 2: United States of America to the opening of the Gordy
29:22
Speaker 2: Howe Bridge, which is fine, he says, considering they are
29:25
Speaker 2: paying substantial tariffs to the United States. But the original
29:29
Speaker 2: deal on the bridge terribly negotiated by a previous administration,
29:32
Speaker 2: he says, no longer stands. We change the terms of
29:35
Speaker 2: the deal so that the US now gets fifty percent
29:38
Speaker 2: of the profit. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Indeed,
29:42
Speaker 2: the United States will hold its own dedication ceremony, it
29:47
Speaker 2: seems on this side of the bridge. This was the
29:50
Speaker 2: foundation of David Weston's conversation with Christy Freeland that you
29:55
Speaker 2: will see and hear on this week's edition of Bloomberg
29:58
Speaker 2: Wall Street Week. Of course, the former Canadian finance minister
30:02
Speaker 2: now Bloomberg contributor weighing in on Canada tariffs.
30:06
Speaker 6: Listen, the official rationale is in reaction to Canadian treatment
30:13
Speaker 6: of US alcohol, US dairy and US cars and car parts.
30:21
Speaker 6: But we have to be careful about believing the official
30:24
Speaker 6: rationale because just before the proclamation came out, the complaint
30:29
Speaker 6: was that Canada needed to be punished for the Canadian wildfires,
30:35
Speaker 6: which is a hard thing to figure out how Canada
30:38
Speaker 6: should stop them.
30:40
Speaker 7: And I think we really have.
30:42
Speaker 6: To recognize that this is happening against a backdrop of
30:47
Speaker 6: what is turning out to be a very contentious renegotiation
30:52
Speaker 6: of the USMCA formerly known as nafta trade agreement governing
30:59
Speaker 6: the US, Canadian and Mexican trade relationship.
31:01
Speaker 10: How big a deal is that in terms of the
31:03
Speaker 10: amount of trade between the United States and Canada.
31:06
Speaker 6: People have calculated that it's about twenty billion dollars worth
31:10
Speaker 6: of goods.
31:11
Speaker 5: It's not.
31:13
Speaker 6: A killing blow for the Canadian economy, but it is
31:17
Speaker 6: significant in and of itself. And I think the other
31:20
Speaker 6: thing what is really important about this is it shows
31:25
Speaker 6: that this is going to.
31:26
Speaker 7: Be a truly contentious negotiation.
31:30
Speaker 6: It shows that Donald Trump wants to punish Canada, and
31:35
Speaker 6: Canada now has to decide how to respond.
31:37
Speaker 10: Do we think it's punished Canada or use some leverage
31:40
Speaker 10: on Canada. As I understand it by reports, the United
31:43
Speaker 10: States is farther along with Mexico in negotiating on the
31:46
Speaker 10: USSCIA then with Canada. I'm not sure Canada's engaged that much.
31:49
Speaker 10: Is it possible this is just a way to get
31:51
Speaker 10: Canada to the table.
31:53
Speaker 6: I actually, David, agree with you about most things, but
31:56
Speaker 6: I don't think that's a fair interpretation at all. Canada
31:59
Speaker 6: has been ready willing and able to negotiate any place,
32:04
Speaker 6: any time. The US did not have to impose tariffs
32:08
Speaker 6: to get Canada to negotiate. Canada wants to talk, Canada
32:11
Speaker 6: wants a deal. In fact, Canada has made a number
32:15
Speaker 6: of concessions, sort of bargaining against itself in advance, I guess,
32:21
Speaker 6: to show willingness to negotiate. Canada last year dropped the
32:24
Speaker 6: digital services tax. Canada has dropped most of its retaliation
32:28
Speaker 6: against the illegal and unjustified US two three two tariffs.
32:34
Speaker 2: So there you have it. We're all becoming experts on this,
32:36
Speaker 2: and of course Christia Freeland already was. And you can
32:39
Speaker 2: catch the full conversation with David weston Bloomberg Wall Street
32:41
Speaker 2: week start six pm Wall Street Time, as we say
32:44
Speaker 2: here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Extending our conversation now
32:49
Speaker 2: on tariff's geopolitics and diplomacy with a very special guest
32:52
Speaker 2: here in our Washington Bureau today, and it's Ireland's Ambassador
32:56
Speaker 2: to the United States, Geraldine burn Nason, with US in studio.
33:00
Speaker 2: What a treat. It's great to see you, madam ambassador.
33:02
Speaker 2: Welcome to Bloomberg.
33:03
Speaker 3: Thank you, Jill.
33:04
Speaker 2: Great to be with you. And I say right on
33:05
Speaker 2: the air, you throw the best parties in Washington, DC.
33:07
Speaker 2: Not that I would be at any of them, but
33:10
Speaker 2: your residence and your embassy are very important venues for
33:17
Speaker 2: diplomacy and the application of soft power. Before I get
33:23
Speaker 2: to tariffs here, does Irish diplomacy work with the Trump administration?
33:27
Speaker 11: I'd like to say Irish diplomacy works with any administration anywhere.
33:31
Speaker 11: We have been very lucky here in the United States
33:34
Speaker 11: over a very long time, one hundred years of independence,
33:38
Speaker 11: to have good relationships across the isle, and we work
33:42
Speaker 11: in good faith and sincerity with every occupant of the
33:46
Speaker 11: hit House.
33:46
Speaker 2: Well, I tell you, I want our audience to know
33:49
Speaker 2: a little bit about you because we talked to ambassadors.
33:51
Speaker 2: But then there are career diplomats who are experts in statecraft,
33:55
Speaker 2: and you're one of them. You served as Ireland's ambassador
33:59
Speaker 2: to France and MYNACO had to be the best job
34:02
Speaker 2: you've ever had. But you can tell me about that later.
34:04
Speaker 2: You were appointed to Ireland's Permanent representative for the UN,
34:07
Speaker 2: which we're going to ask you about. You secured a
34:09
Speaker 2: seat for Ireland on the UN Security Council, which was
34:12
Speaker 2: a huge deal for your country and for the UN.
34:15
Speaker 2: You spoke at the DNC in twenty twenty four, a
34:18
Speaker 2: speech that we all remember and for one that's close
34:21
Speaker 2: to my heart. I just saw this on your wiki.
34:24
Speaker 2: You marched with Richie Neil and Holyoak mass and the
34:27
Speaker 2: Saint Patrick's Day Parade. No one knows where Holyoak is, Ambassador.
34:30
Speaker 11: It's the center of the world on Saint Patrick's Day,
34:34
Speaker 11: that's for sure. I've never seen the Saint Patrick's Day
34:37
Speaker 11: Parade quite like it. It's deep on the deck chairs,
34:40
Speaker 11: cheering on the Irish in Holy oolk Massachusete.
34:44
Speaker 2: Pretty remarkable. I'm sure the chairman now ranking member loved that.
34:48
Speaker 2: With everything that I just said here, you have been
34:51
Speaker 2: around the horn when it comes to diplomacy. How do
34:53
Speaker 2: you manage a cycle of tariffs that the president is
34:56
Speaker 2: announcing today? Does this strain the relationship?
34:59
Speaker 4: Yep.
35:00
Speaker 11: This is a challenging period for US internationally, but particularly economically,
35:05
Speaker 11: and no secret Ireland. The European Union doesn't think tariffs
35:09
Speaker 11: in general are a good idea.
35:11
Speaker 2: I just saw the latest.
35:13
Speaker 11: News on tariff's as I arrived here to speak with you, Joe. Overnight,
35:19
Speaker 11: the administration had made an announcement around a ten percent
35:23
Speaker 11: global tariff, and frankly, we in Europe welcomed that as
35:27
Speaker 11: good news.
35:29
Speaker 2: That was positive.
35:31
Speaker 11: Last year, the President President Trump and President vander Lane
35:34
Speaker 11: of the European Commission agreed an EUUs trade framework and
35:40
Speaker 11: that set tariffs at a ceiling of fifteen percent. So
35:44
Speaker 11: last night, when I saw the ten percent announcement, I
35:47
Speaker 11: thought that was good news. The EU would be below
35:51
Speaker 11: the ceiling of fifteen percent tariffs. We know it may
35:56
Speaker 11: not be the end of the story, but it was
35:58
Speaker 11: positively received. Just now, there has been an announcement that
36:03
Speaker 11: links tariffs with a fine or a series of fines
36:07
Speaker 11: that have been applied in terms of the European digital markets,
36:12
Speaker 11: and that changes the conversation. It's disappointing.
36:16
Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to ask you about that in a moment,
36:17
Speaker 2: because that broke since we came to air and since
36:19
Speaker 2: you've been in our bureau. So I want to be
36:21
Speaker 2: fair as we read through this. This section three oh
36:24
Speaker 2: one teriff that was implemented this morning is based on
36:27
Speaker 2: forced labor, vile forced labor in the supply chain. Does
36:31
Speaker 2: the EU have something to worry about there? How do
36:33
Speaker 2: you one that?
36:34
Speaker 11: No, Look, I mean, frankly, the rubric under which the
36:37
Speaker 11: decision was made we would take issue with. However, as
36:41
Speaker 11: I've said several times in any contacts I've had with
36:45
Speaker 11: US business, and I reflect Irish and European interest here.
36:50
Speaker 11: We want to stable, secure, predictable trade relationship with the
36:55
Speaker 11: United States. The EU and the US trade over four
36:59
Speaker 11: billion dollars a day. There are four million jobs that
37:02
Speaker 11: go with this relationship. Thirty percent of global trade is
37:05
Speaker 11: between the EU and the US. This is in all
37:08
Speaker 11: our interest to stabilize it. So having that trade agreement
37:13
Speaker 11: and that framework makes good sense to us. The three
37:16
Speaker 11: h one was an instrument that I think this administration
37:19
Speaker 11: had to choose. The court throughout the last instrument and
37:24
Speaker 11: we were not recognizing that it has any implication for
37:27
Speaker 11: EU policy. But the actual framework in terms of the
37:32
Speaker 11: tariff level, as I said, was broadly positively received.
37:37
Speaker 2: Last night, he writes on truth Social the European Union
37:40
Speaker 2: is added again and it's important we should note by
37:43
Speaker 2: the way that this is an important time for Ireland
37:47
Speaker 2: as you currently hold the rotating presidency of the Council
37:50
Speaker 2: of the European Union. He's essentially accusing the EU of
37:55
Speaker 2: theft robbing American companies, and to your point, it refers
37:57
Speaker 2: to the fines on Apple, Meta, Google, and Amazon and others.
38:03
Speaker 2: He's announcing a three to zero one investigation into what
38:05
Speaker 2: he says the practice of robbing American companies and in
38:08
Speaker 2: turn the American taxpayer. How would you respond to him
38:12
Speaker 2: and what do you expect this investigation to uncover.
38:15
Speaker 11: Look, as you said, it's just breaking news, so I
38:18
Speaker 11: won't have a definitive response. It's disappointed and given the
38:22
Speaker 11: overnight news, and what I will say is what I
38:25
Speaker 11: think the President is referring to. There is the announcement
38:28
Speaker 11: this week about a fine on Google for market practice
38:33
Speaker 11: under what's called the Digital Services Act. That's an act
38:37
Speaker 11: that is essentially about avoiding market abuse, protecting small and
38:43
Speaker 11: medium sized companies or startups in a market where you
38:47
Speaker 11: have huge actors who may take advantage of scale. The
38:51
Speaker 11: other companies mentioned have previously been found by independent investigations
38:57
Speaker 11: European courts to have abrogated the rule in the digital
39:02
Speaker 11: European market. This isn't extra territorial. This applies only to
39:07
Speaker 11: companies who come in and operate in Europe. They do
39:10
Speaker 11: that because it's profitable for them and because it's good
39:14
Speaker 11: for US business and for ux taxpayer US taxpayers.
39:19
Speaker 2: You know, we do not discriminate.
39:22
Speaker 11: I think you will have seen last week there was
39:24
Speaker 11: a fine against Dali Express, a Chinese operator. European companies
39:29
Speaker 11: have been fined. It happens to be US companies that
39:33
Speaker 11: the President is referring to. It's non discriminatory. The European
39:37
Speaker 11: Commission are and of course has its faith and trust
39:40
Speaker 11: in the work it does in terms of managing the market.
39:44
Speaker 11: So we have no qualms and we will hopefully get
39:47
Speaker 11: to a dialogue and to discuss exactly what the President
39:51
Speaker 11: means by this. The European Commissioner for Trade, Marius Sevkovich,
39:57
Speaker 11: works very closely with us tu our jameson career, and
40:01
Speaker 11: I'm sure there will be conversations very quickly today about that.
40:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, really interesting. I can't imagine whatever thought you'd
40:08
Speaker 2: have to be an expert on the on the teriff regime.
40:12
Speaker 2: But here we are. Could you work out a trade
40:14
Speaker 2: deal in our remaining moment with the United States at
40:16
Speaker 2: the Irish Open. This is going to happen at his
40:19
Speaker 2: I'd have a.
40:20
Speaker 11: Good run as it. I have to say yes, the
40:22
Speaker 11: President's dunebag beautiful golf course host. The President has been
40:28
Speaker 11: invited to Ironed every year by the teacher, and so
40:31
Speaker 11: we think he may well want to be on his
40:33
Speaker 11: own golf course. We have no confirmation yet. I look
40:37
Speaker 11: forward to being an Ironed around the same time as
40:40
Speaker 11: it happens.
40:40
Speaker 2: It's ok.
40:41
Speaker 11: Great players like Rory McElroy Shane Lowry are going to
40:44
Speaker 11: be on the course.
40:45
Speaker 2: I don't think he can resist being there. For that
40:47
Speaker 2: he's going to happen.
40:48
Speaker 11: Probably irresistible, but we have to see well to see.
40:51
Speaker 2: Madam Ambassador, it means a lot for us to have you.
40:53
Speaker 2: I know you spent some time in our newsroom beforehand,
40:56
Speaker 2: and it's great to have you here in studio with
40:57
Speaker 2: us on Blueberg TV and radio. I thank you so much,
41:00
Speaker 2: Jeraldine burn Nason. If you're in Washington politics, this is
41:04
Speaker 2: one of the folks you turn to at times like
41:06
Speaker 2: these for insights and analysis and soft power. As I mentioned, Ambassador,
41:12
Speaker 2: thank you thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast.
41:17
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