Latest / 52 Cues - A Production Music and Sync Podcast / Can Subscriptions Actually Be Done Right? (A Roundtable)

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Can Subscriptions Actually Be Done Right? (A Roundtable) · 52 Cues - A Production Music and Sync Podcast

0:30
Speaker 1: And what excites me about this is that we have several subscription companies, software companies, who recognize that subscriptions just by themselves are a pain point.
0:41
Speaker 1: Nobody goes yay, subscriptions, right.
0:46
Speaker 1: But finding creative ways whether it's rent-to-own, like Splice does with serum, whether it's a rebate, like Killa-Hearts, whether it's amazingly no-brainer deals, like Muzio and their educational discount.
1:00
Speaker 1: Finding creative ways to soften the blow because I don't think they're going.
1:07
Speaker 1: They're not going anywhere.
1:08
Speaker 1: What is happening?
1:19
Speaker 1: Everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the 52Qs podcast, a weekly podcast dedicated to all things production and library music, where we talk about industry topics and take deep dives into the different aspects of being a working production music composer.
1:34
Speaker 1: My name is Dave Croff and I'm a professional composer and educator, and I love teaching music to career-minded creators, just like you and I have been for over two decades.
1:46
Speaker 1: So if this is your first time here, welcome.
1:49
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you found me, you know.
1:51
Speaker 1: However, you found me.
1:53
Speaker 1: Today's episode is made possible thanks to the family, friends and patron subscribers of 52Qs, who really do keep everything going.
2:01
Speaker 1: We are 100% community supported.
2:04
Speaker 1: So if you'd like what I do here, don't thank me, thank them.
2:08
Speaker 1: But if you want to learn more about how you can support 52Qs while also unlocking subscriber perks like live streams, workshops, zoom feedback sessions and a ton more.
2:18
Speaker 1: Be sure to click on the links in the description for more information On today's episode.
2:23
Speaker 1: I want to talk about subscriptions, and are they just a necessary evil, or is there a silver lining to having an always-on software as a service, access to every single plug-in we could ever hope for for monthly fee?
2:42
Speaker 1: Well, I've decided to welcome some of our family subscribers, who come from all over the world, with all different experiences and all different backgrounds.
2:50
Speaker 1: To really help me understand where are we at with subscriptions.
2:56
Speaker 1: I am so excited to be welcomed to the podcast by several members of the 52Qs family, and what you might not realize there at home is and we've already laughed this is take eight or nine, I don't know.
3:09
Speaker 1: It's because it's not them, it's me, it's Dave messing this up but we have a really good time.
3:16
Speaker 1: We have weekly office hours as well as zoom feedback sessions, and so during those times we get into some really amazing conversations, and I thought it would be really, really good to welcome anybody in the family who wanted to join me on the podcast.
3:35
Speaker 1: And we're going to be talking about subscriptions, but before we do that.
3:39
Speaker 1: What I'd like to do, starting with Greg, let's go around, kind of introduce yourself and tell us where you're from and what you do.
3:49
Speaker 2: Hello, I'm Greg and I'm calling from Denver, Colorado.
3:53
Speaker 2: I do all sorts of production music, mainly some pension stuff, dramedy lo-fi cues and meditation cues.
4:01
Speaker 2: Thanks, Greg.
4:04
Speaker 3: Hey, hi, I'm from Chico Republic, tabor, and I do mostly guitar stuff, but flirting with some other styles.
4:14
Speaker 1: Excellent.
4:14
Speaker 1: Thank you, hey, chris.
4:16
Speaker 4: Hi Chris.
4:17
Speaker 4: I'm at Idaho right now by way of Louisiana.
4:20
Speaker 4: I'm a student, 46-year-old freshman, proud to be a part of this community.
4:27
Speaker 1: Thanks, Chris.
4:30
Speaker 5: And I'm Nigel.
4:31
Speaker 5: I'm a displaced Brit living in Memphis, Tennessee, for the last oh gosh almost 20 years, I think, and I love messing around with sound design and also have a great interest in tension music.
4:44
Speaker 5: Thanks, Nigel.
4:48
Speaker 6: Hey everybody, I'm Michael, originally from Slovakia, central Europe, now living in Zurich, switzerland, originally classical guitarist and now I do a lot of hip hop in all flavors imaginable.
4:58
Speaker 1: Excellent, thank you very much.
5:02
Speaker 7: Yeah Hi, I'm Rolf from Germany.
5:05
Speaker 7: I started with production music because of COVID.
5:11
Speaker 7: Like many of us, one of the main things I do is networking, so gathering like-minded composers, music-wise drum-a-dee, orchestral stuff, tension and 50s and 80s small orchestra Americana stuff.
5:39
Speaker 1: Excellent.
5:39
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Rolf and George.
5:42
Speaker 8: Yeah, my name is George.
5:43
Speaker 8: I'm from West Virginia and I do mostly sound design and trailer mostly horror trailer right now.
5:50
Speaker 8: That could change in the future.
5:51
Speaker 8: I love sci-fi as well, but I'm glad to be here, thanks.
5:54
Speaker 1: Well, again, I am so happy to have all of you joining us and it's this really is kind of a snapshot of the community we have here at 52Q's folks from all over the world on so many different time zones, and I know it's in the evening over there in Switzerland and it's morning time like in Hawaii, and so not that anybody's from Hawaii, but just so you know, right now it's in the morning.
6:20
Speaker 1: Anyway, it's really good to have you.
6:22
Speaker 1: And one of the things, as I mentioned, that happens during our feedback sessions and office hours is these topics, these hot button grenade topics that get kind of launched into the group and that will spur some pretty fiery discussions.
6:39
Speaker 1: And regardless of where we are in our compositional journey, regardless of how many credits you do or don't have, however many placements or whatever, we are all on the same path.
6:51
Speaker 1: And so today we're talking about subscriptions and software as a service, and I know that that is that's a swear word, it's a four-letter curse word, the idea of subscriptions.
7:08
Speaker 1: But I wanted to ask the group, knowing how bad waves stepped in it earlier this year, right, and they immediately walked it back and they really, really kicked a hornet's nest.
7:23
Speaker 1: What was it about waves that was like so egregious?
7:29
Speaker 1: Why did waves stick on us and affect us much more than you know, than the ComposerCloud subscription service, or what Reason is doing?
7:38
Speaker 1: What do we think?
7:43
Speaker 7: For me it's.
7:46
Speaker 7: Every human being wants to decide what to do and what not to do, and if I buy a product, I have a kind of a contract, so you sell it for this amount and I buy it.
8:07
Speaker 7: But when then a company changes it without asking me or without giving me time to think it over, I feel like a slave or so, or just be abandoned and not in charge anymore.
8:31
Speaker 7: And no human being, regardless if they are composers or craftsmen or whatever, want to be ruled by somebody else.
8:45
Speaker 1: So it was about a loss of control.
8:48
Speaker 1: It felt like you no longer had agency.
8:50
Speaker 1: Yep Got it, anybody else?
8:55
Speaker 8: For me it was suspiciously.
8:57
Speaker 8: I don't know if it happened to anybody else, but all my waves plugins just kind of stopped working around that same time period when they went to subscription and the news of them having gone to subscription.
9:08
Speaker 8: I didn't bother to troubleshoot it.
9:09
Speaker 8: I was done with them for pretty much the reason that Rolf says.
9:12
Speaker 8: But additionally, myself being a former marketer, saas I see as kind of one of the worst hooks that you can throw into someone's mouth.
9:22
Speaker 1: That, saas being software as a service.
9:24
Speaker 8: Yeah, software as a service, Apologies.
9:26
Speaker 8: Yeah, because it really is designed.
9:29
Speaker 8: I believe it's really designed to keep people on the hook for something they may no longer be using.
9:34
Speaker 8: It's just that recurring payment and that's just a form of revenue.
9:38
Speaker 8: There's a lot of marketers out there who espouse using things like that constantly.
9:42
Speaker 8: With every program they sell you Not like a subscription to like a 52Q type of thing, but something where you're supposed to own the piece, but it's SaaS.
9:53
Speaker 1: Got you.
9:55
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I kind of agree with that, but also I think it has to do with the fact not just being on the hook for paying for it every month.
10:04
Speaker 5: It's what happens.
10:06
Speaker 5: If and when you can't or can't pay or you stop paying, you lose access to it.
10:12
Speaker 5: If you're a craftsman working in wood or metal or some other artisan thing and then one day somebody just showed up and ran off with all your tools, it would be kind of upsetting.
10:24
Speaker 1: Or if your hammer just stopped working just because you didn't yeah this way.
10:30
Speaker 5: Hammer no longer hams.
10:31
Speaker 5: That's what a hammer does.
10:32
Speaker 5: I don't know.
10:32
Speaker 5: But I'm not a WAVES customer.
10:39
Speaker 5: I think I owned maybe two WAVES plugins.
10:43
Speaker 5: I think they were gifted to me ages ago by Reason Studios.
10:49
Speaker 5: They stopped working a long time ago.
10:51
Speaker 5: I think I'd be pretty upset if my toolbox just suddenly stopped working like that.
10:58
Speaker 5: They literally pulled the rug out from under everybody's feet.
11:03
Speaker 5: Yeah, that one.
11:04
Speaker 5: It was so sudden.
11:06
Speaker 2: For me.
11:07
Speaker 2: I mean similar to what Rolf was saying.
11:08
Speaker 2: It's the idea of ownership.
11:11
Speaker 2: It's like when I purchased these, all right, I thought I was purchasing them and therefore owning them in perpetuity.
11:17
Speaker 2: Then all of a sudden they go ahead and change that contract.
11:21
Speaker 2: It felt wrong.
11:24
Speaker 2: It felt like kind of like stealing back what they already sold me.
11:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they caught wind of that and backed off of it almost immediately, almost immediately.
11:34
Speaker 1: I've never seen such a unified outcry of this is not going to fly.
11:41
Speaker 1: I'm sure I've seen companies backpedal quicker, but not out of direct response to their customer base completely revolting.
11:57
Speaker 5: It was pretty dramatic, that's for sure, and rightly so.
12:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so go ahead.
12:03
Speaker 5: I'm sorry.
12:04
Speaker 5: I think software is a little bit different in the way that we purchase it compared to physical goods.
12:12
Speaker 5: You walk into a Home Depot or something like that and you buy a hammer, you take that hammer home and you own it.
12:20
Speaker 5: But software, what we actually purchase is a license to use it and that license can be revoked at any time.
12:31
Speaker 5: If you hack into the program and you start trying to crack it or something like that, they'll take your license away, but they can also revoke it if they decide that the product is no longer available or they don't want to support it.
12:46
Speaker 5: I think Adobe did something similar with Fader Shop and some of their other products when they Because I think they were one of the first to start this whole subscription thing, so we can blame them.
13:00
Speaker 5: It's a little bit different in the ownership side of things, even though I agree that when I purchase software I want to feel like I own the thing.
13:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, but in reality we've kind of always been renting it.
13:17
Speaker 1: We just had the illusion of ownership.
13:24
Speaker 1: Our relationship is much more spot-ified than it is buying a CD.
13:28
Speaker 1: What were you saying, rolf?
13:31
Speaker 7: Yeah, but there are differences.
13:33
Speaker 7: For example, adobe.
13:34
Speaker 7: You're right, nigel, they were the first with the subscription model, but I still have Adobe CS6 and it's working.
13:51
Speaker 7: It's still working.
13:52
Speaker 7: It doesn't stop to work.
13:54
Speaker 7: So that's a huge difference.
13:57
Speaker 7: I bought it and I can use it up to today's, although it's kind of outdated meanwhile, but I can still use it.
14:07
Speaker 1: That's a different thing yeah, you'll be able to use it until your computer says no more, like it can't.
14:13
Speaker 1: I was a huge fan of fireworks way back in the pre-Adobe days when it was Macromedia, because it was kind of half Photoshop, half Illustrator and I didn't want to learn Photoshop, I didn't want to learn Illustrator.
14:25
Speaker 1: So fireworks sat right in the middle and it wasn't until my Mac operating system couldn't support the old version that I finally had to wean myself and actually learn Photoshop.
14:37
Speaker 1: But why is it that Adobe and maybe we just weren't in the industry and so we didn't hear the ground swell of pitchforks and torches?
14:50
Speaker 1: But how did Adobe get away with it, is it?
14:54
Speaker 1: Well, I'll ask.
14:55
Speaker 1: I have a theory of how Adobe got away with it.
14:58
Speaker 1: But why do we think Adobe got away with it and Waves hasn't?
15:04
Speaker 6: Well, I think Waves was in a very bad position to begin with to do something like this because of all this annoying update coverage plan.
15:13
Speaker 6: I forgot a little bit what it's called when they hook you in with a very, very low pricing of the plugins themselves, which I actually to blame.
15:22
Speaker 6: I bought a lot of them with very, very low prices, me too and then they suddenly stopped working after some time.
15:28
Speaker 6: If you don't, or you renew or you update your Mac OS and then the plugins stop to work, stop working so you have to update the coverage plan, which happened to me.
15:38
Speaker 6: But also, for example, I studied at Berkeley and at Berkeley we had Waves bundles specifically tailored to Berkeley.
15:43
Speaker 6: So every student of my major had to buy that which was maybe like a collection of 20 plugins which were great, and I was forced by the college to buy them, and then suddenly I thought I owned them right and then suddenly they tell me that if I don't subscribe now, I cannot update them anymore and they will stop working after some time, inevitably.
16:05
Speaker 6: So this, in my opinion, just amalicious, like predatory practice, and they just couldn't get away with it.
16:11
Speaker 6: But what I want to say is that they were in a very bad position because of this practice that they had before they had come up with this whole subscription thing.
16:19
Speaker 6: The coverage plan is just BS mapping.
16:23
Speaker 7: Yeah, to me the difference to Adobe is Adobe came up with a new product when they went to the subscription model, so you could use the old product and with a new product you could decide if you use it or not.
16:45
Speaker 7: And then the other thing is Adobe is an industry standard still for graphic, but Waves is not.
16:53
Speaker 7: Yeah.
16:55
Speaker 1: I think maybe 15 years ago they were closer to an industry standard back when they were charging like thousands of dollars for their whole platinum bundle and all of that, and so and I wonder, where is the breaking point?
17:12
Speaker 1: What is it that subscription services can do?
17:14
Speaker 1: That makes us feel a little bit better about it, because Shannon, who does all the design work for I mean she's an amazing music director and a musician and bass player and keyboard and flute player and all that but she does all the graphics for 52Qs, this logo is from her brain and she has an Adobe subscription and I mean she kind of grumbles about it, but it's not like Waves level of ire that.
17:43
Speaker 1: I know that I got on my motorcycle and had to about it.
17:48
Speaker 1: My theory is this is that Waves cost to benefit ratio far outwaves outwaves what Waves did and what most subscription services feel like they do.
18:01
Speaker 1: Like, for example, I think it's like 30 bucks a month or something, and it's like you get Photoshop and Illustrator and like Premier and all these giant industry.
18:13
Speaker 1: Like each one is an industry standard on its own, whereas for like the reason bundle, it's 10 bucks a month.
18:20
Speaker 1: Right, for reason it's not even a bundle, it's like one app, and so I think, with Adobe, it felt like, oh my gosh, you're kind of like kid in a candy store, look at everything I could possibly download.
18:34
Speaker 1: Do you think there's some truth to that?
18:36
Speaker 1: Do you think Adobe just was positioned to back up a dump truck of industry standard software, each of which was hundreds of dollars on its own every year, because they kept updating it?
18:51
Speaker 1: Do you think that's that?
18:52
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
18:53
Speaker 8: Yep, yeah, absolutely.
18:54
Speaker 8: That all rolled around when I was still working in marketing and the reaction was oh boy, they've really got us by the throat because they're the only ones.
19:03
Speaker 8: But also you know what?
19:05
Speaker 8: It wasn't that bad of a deal.
19:06
Speaker 8: We were able to actually increase the number of seats.
19:09
Speaker 8: We had Adobe products for, you know, for interns and things like that, because the price was lower than buying everything outright.
19:15
Speaker 8: So that kind of worked for us there, versus the wave situation with you know.
19:21
Speaker 8: Okay, I lost access to my wave stuff.
19:25
Speaker 8: I'm going to use other products now.
19:27
Speaker 8: That's right.
19:27
Speaker 8: That was just very quick.
19:30
Speaker 1: That's right.
19:30
Speaker 5: I think you know, when it comes to Adobe, you know their, their suite of products is like a Swiss army knife.
19:38
Speaker 5: You know it's like a Swiss army knife of Swiss army knives.
19:43
Speaker 5: It can do a lot of different things and it has a very large use case.
19:48
Speaker 5: I mean, you can use Photoshop for all manner of different things graphic design to, you know to Photoshop, sort of photography and lots of things.
20:00
Speaker 5: Waves, particularly, is a pretty much one thing.
20:04
Speaker 5: You know.
20:06
Speaker 5: It's a very narrow, focused product, and so I think that's partly why people felt so kind of screwed over by it.
20:15
Speaker 5: You know, I think it's in terms of, well, the value, the benefit that I would get from subscribing to Adobe is much greater and has much greater scope than having to pay for something that does a very narrow band of tasks.
20:34
Speaker 1: So so there is a there is a cost breaking point, Like if something is cheap enough, then you'll, you'll buy it because it's inexpensive, or if it's so much content, so much, so many you know apps or plugins or whatever that would offset that.
20:54
Speaker 1: Now, on paper, waves had that on paper, you know, because of the sheer, just volume of plugins I think you know, mikhail, what you were saying they had already kind of soured the milk, as it were, and so then, when they were trying to like change from strawberry to chocolate milk I don't know, maybe I just need a snack, but they, they, nobody was ready to have any of that.
21:20
Speaker 1: So so, as far as, is there a price that waves couldn't?
21:24
Speaker 1: I'm kind of picking on waves here, but they're kind of the avatar for how not to do this.
21:30
Speaker 1: Where is the?
21:32
Speaker 1: At what price?
21:33
Speaker 1: Do you feel like waves might have have attracted you back?
21:38
Speaker 1: Anybody thought of that?
21:40
Speaker 6: Or is it?
21:40
Speaker 1: are they just dead to you?
21:43
Speaker 6: Well, I think the problem is that they, that they didn't give you the option initially, right, they just told you you have to subscribe now because you cannot update anymore.
21:51
Speaker 6: Then they changed it.
21:51
Speaker 6: I'm not sure what the current situation is, but I think now I can.
21:55
Speaker 6: I can actually still update my permanent licenses.
21:57
Speaker 6: But that was the problem and I would probably never want to subscribe to waves because I already own a lot of permanent licenses and if they told me I have to because otherwise I cannot update, and there is so much competition out there, so much, so many great products out there, that I would just go through to a different, to a different provider, I'm I think I'm done with waves for good.
22:18
Speaker 8: Yeah, so I still use those that I have.
22:19
Speaker 8: I'm not gonna buy anything new.
22:21
Speaker 8: I'm through with them as well, because I mean, I started an opening projects and my the mixes were horrible because I relied completely on, almost completely on on waves plugins to do it, and that was it for me.
22:33
Speaker 8: I was, I was just done with them.
22:34
Speaker 8: I mean, you know, I went ahead and I purchased Ozone and whatever, like whatever else they had, and I've been using that.
22:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's.
22:41
Speaker 1: I mean we said sour the milk, but you know, if you're looking to to to wean a calf, you know you sour the milk so that they start, you know, kind of figuring out how to, how to, how to eat on their own.
22:52
Speaker 1: It's kind of like that you know I had already jumped ship and I had a handful, but since then I still haven't even so.
23:01
Speaker 1: So so I'm hearing there isn't really a price.
23:04
Speaker 1: So at this point it's not about price with waves.
23:08
Speaker 6: No trust, no trust.
23:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's about trust.
23:10
Speaker 8: It's all about trust.
23:11
Speaker 8: If they did it one time, would they try to do a better rollout another time, which would still not work for us.
23:17
Speaker 8: So that's kind of where I am with those guys.
23:21
Speaker 2: I just wonder too if there's a difference for plugins versus instruments, just because for me waves seems very replaceable, Anything they have.
23:33
Speaker 2: Logic Pro probably has a stock option for it, so it's not really necessary.
23:38
Speaker 2: Spitfire Audio if they have a subscription service, I would be more inclined to do that, just because they have some very unique products.
23:46
Speaker 1: So you would be more inclined to subscribe to an instrument, a VST, as opposed to just a mixing plugin or something.
23:56
Speaker 4: Mikhail yeah, you had definitely you were going to say.
23:59
Speaker 6: Yeah, just look at what Museo did this year.
24:01
Speaker 6: Right, the Cine Samples, all of Cine Samples, for, I think, 10 bucks a month, I believe, or you can buy the permanent license.
24:08
Speaker 6: They even give you the choice, which is amazing.
24:10
Speaker 6: So with virtual instruments, exactly, there is some uniqueness, there is some competitive advantage that they have much greater competitive advantage than waves does because they have their own unique sounds.
24:22
Speaker 7: Yeah, just imagine if native instruments would switch to a subscription model.
24:33
Speaker 1: They won't lose many customers because If it was priced right, I would think about it.
24:39
Speaker 1: Like you know, I get complete.
24:41
Speaker 1: You know about every other year is when I get complete.
24:43
Speaker 1: I'll skip, because they'll release a new batch of sounds and then eventually roll it into their complete line.
24:50
Speaker 1: But, like right now, as we're recording this, I think like rudiments came out and it sounds great.
24:56
Speaker 1: I want it.
24:57
Speaker 1: It's great.
24:58
Speaker 1: I wish I had it.
24:59
Speaker 1: But I'm not going to drop 100 bucks on it.
25:02
Speaker 1: I'm just patiently biding my time until it shows up in complete 16, like in two years.
25:09
Speaker 1: But if I had a subscription to it and it just magically showed up, then I'd be using it right now.
25:18
Speaker 1: Which begs the question what's the price point?
25:24
Speaker 3: About the business samples, as you, michal, mentioned, and I look at that now and there have 49 bucks for educators for a whole year.
25:32
Speaker 3: It's 49 bucks.
25:33
Speaker 3: It's crazy.
25:34
Speaker 3: It's like it's good for the package, yeah.
25:39
Speaker 1: I jumped on that as well when Museo first came out.
25:43
Speaker 1: I didn't get it because I had several Sina samples plugins already and I'm like, well, it's not really worth it.
25:49
Speaker 1: But then a $49 educator discount, which I don't think is like a sale.
25:55
Speaker 1: I think that's just their educator price, that's a no-brainer.
25:58
Speaker 1: That's like $4 a month for everything and they keep adding, sounds to it.
26:07
Speaker 6: And I think and they now even have exclusive stuff.
26:09
Speaker 6: I think CineStrengths Pro is only in Museo, not as a separate standalone library.
26:15
Speaker 6: I don't understand it correctly, so they're going this route.
26:19
Speaker 1: And they are approaching it similarly to the way that Reason works, in that you get the one Reason plugin and then you load sounds into that one Reason plugin.
26:31
Speaker 1: So Museo is the same way.
26:33
Speaker 1: I like that.
26:35
Speaker 1: In Museo you can load individual instruments separately.
26:40
Speaker 1: So instead of like I'm going to load up all 300 gigabytes of orchestral sounds, I can say I need the bass flute and load it in.
26:48
Speaker 1: That's attractive, unless you want to just load up the whole thing, which there was a choir one.
26:55
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, can I just install and they all go, or do I have to like kind of, what about?
27:01
Speaker 1: That's just me whinging about there?
27:03
Speaker 1: you are, which leads me to East West.
27:08
Speaker 1: East West Composer Cloud was, I believe, the first music plugin subscription service and when it came out and I have it, and I've had it since the beginning I'm a colonist or whatever charter member, whatever you want to call those guys I jumped in really early and they have taken a different approach.
27:31
Speaker 1: Instead of having one plugin that loads in all of the libraries, you are essentially getting licenses to each of the libraries through this one kind of master key, so you're loading up each sound individually.
27:46
Speaker 1: Where do we think East West is at this point?
27:50
Speaker 1: Is it?
27:50
Speaker 1: Is this Composer Cloud a good price?
27:52
Speaker 1: Has anybody here subscribed to East West and, if so, what's been in your experience?
27:59
Speaker 3: I am subscribed to East West.
28:02
Speaker 3: Again, I have the Edu price, so it's $10 for a month, so it's okay.
28:09
Speaker 3: And I find myself looking there for stuff I would normally do not use, like Duduk or something like the extraordinary sounds.
28:20
Speaker 3: I don't have any of those, so I keep it for this stuff and sometimes for orchestral stuff which for a special use, special sound, which is it's for me, when I started to do production music, the Composer Cloud was the only source I had for orchestral stuff.
28:45
Speaker 7: But then, when I switched to Vienna Symphonic Library and orchestral tools, I thought, well, I may stop this subscription, but to begin with it's super good.
29:05
Speaker 7: It's really good you can you have access to all the sounds you ever need for, at least for orchestral music.
29:14
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah.
29:17
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've been with them for five, six years.
29:19
Speaker 6: I also have the Edu price, even though I'm not an educator anymore, but they still give me the same price, which is great.
29:25
Speaker 6: It's like 15 a month.
29:27
Speaker 6: Even so, it's one.
29:28
Speaker 6: And I do have a little bit of buyer's remorse though, because I've maybe used like 5% of what they offer, but I've used a lot of that 5%, like I've used it a lot in alt-q's, which means if I stop subscribing right now, I cannot open the alt sessions, which would bother me, so I just have to go on, even though I really, these days I only use, I only use what is it called the Spacey Steel Reverb?
29:55
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was that a lot, but with the money I've paid for that I could have bought it, but I've used a lot of bras, a lot of percussion, but that's actually it.
30:07
Speaker 6: So I probably could have bought these libraries outright, but I cannot stop now.
30:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you feel kind of trapped into the subscription.
30:19
Speaker 6: Yeah, because it's different than Museo.
30:20
Speaker 6: Museo I bought the permanent license but I would be happy to pay for Museo because I kind of feel that they still kind of develop the product.
30:29
Speaker 6: I mean, they just started, so they obviously still develop the product.
30:31
Speaker 6: But I have the feeling that they will keep updating sounds, keep updating the software.
30:36
Speaker 6: With East-West I have the feeling that they are stuck in the early 2000s, like with the GUI.
30:42
Speaker 6: It's like it's terrible, sorry, but it just looks terrible.
30:46
Speaker 6: The new Opus player, it just doesn't feel like it's 2023 to me, like both the sound and the graphics, and I've had so many problems with the sound, like with the program, the instruments.
30:59
Speaker 6: It's just not out of the box in the same way as Speedfire is or as Museo is.
31:05
Speaker 6: So I don't think the product is super, super amazing, but for the price I mean okay, it's fine.
31:11
Speaker 6: I mean you get a lot for reasonable price, so that's the good thing about it.
31:16
Speaker 6: But yeah, I kind of feel trapped a little.
31:18
Speaker 6: Yeah.
31:21
Speaker 2: I had Composer Cloud for a year and I really didn't use them much because I was not impressed with their user interface.
31:27
Speaker 2: I thought it was just clumsy and kind of, as Mikal was saying, just old fashioned and cumbersome.
31:33
Speaker 2: So I just didn't use it as much as I could have.
31:36
Speaker 2: But it also then and kind of Mikal alluded to this gets to the point of the challenge with subscription services is that yeah, someday you know you're not subscribed to it anymore and then you try to go back to an old session and if you didn't bounce it you can't get the sound that you had, and that's for me very frustrating Because I don't want to pay attention to what sounds.
32:01
Speaker 2: I need to bounce just in case.
32:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's something unique to using the instruments, as you know, subscription instruments versus like.
32:11
Speaker 1: It's really easy just to kind of throw another EQ or another mastering chain or something like that, but to like, find a pizzicato string which is going to hit the same and as the pizzicatos that you use, that you spent, you know, a lot of time dialing in.
32:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, I gotta tell you, I'm feeling trapped, not necessarily by like, composer, cloud and everything.
32:34
Speaker 1: I'm feeling trapped in some of my other subscriptions, namely Splice.
32:39
Speaker 1: I like Splice, I use it religiously, I love it.
32:42
Speaker 1: However, I'm sitting on like 6,000 credits because I get more credits per month than I can use.
32:50
Speaker 1: There's no way other than going like, on a, on a, you get a car, you get a car type of a shopping spree, right?
32:58
Speaker 1: I now feel hopelessly trapped into that.
33:02
Speaker 1: I want to try LoopCloud, I love to try soundscom.
33:05
Speaker 1: But and, viewers and listeners, if you know of a way for me to pause my subscription or to keep my credits, if I my understanding, if I cancel my Splice subscription right now, I lose those credits that I that I paid for, the same same as with my Audible account, but at least Audible has a way for you to pause your subscription.
33:26
Speaker 1: They have a way for you to to kind of go down like downgrade, but I'm not sure of a way to to to do that with Splice and now.
33:37
Speaker 1: Now I feel like trapped.
33:40
Speaker 6: Well, you could go and buy out sample, the whole sample packs and supplies.
33:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying, Like I said that you like like yeah, that's the shopping spree, right, I could just like just go nuts and just blast through that, but I don't know, I feel like that's like a millionaire you have 24 hours to spend a million dollars.
33:57
Speaker 1: It's actually tougher than it sounds.
33:59
Speaker 1: Uh, other, if, if I, if I really want to get my money's worth out of it.
34:06
Speaker 7: Yeah, for me, I have like 3000 credits on supplies and I use it a lot but I can't use all my credits.
34:16
Speaker 7: But honestly, for me it would be okay to stay with supplies, because it's not only about the sounds, it's about the inspirer inspiration you get when you listen to one shots or loops.
34:38
Speaker 7: So it's helping me a lot in the composing process and yeah.
34:44
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a, I'm a fan of splice, um, I I've been tempted to loop cloud because loop cloud has some other tools.
34:51
Speaker 1: Their, uh, their browser engine is, uh, is really good and um, and I see that Okay.
34:59
Speaker 1: So, Chris, chris, do you have something you want to add?
35:01
Speaker 1: He's like writing in the chat.
35:02
Speaker 1: I'm going to make you go on the mic, bro.
35:03
Speaker 1: He'll be coming at me with a chat.
35:05
Speaker 1: I don't want to.
35:06
Speaker 4: I don't want to interrupt.
35:07
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying.
35:08
Speaker 4: No, I found an option that says you have to hit the cancel button and, when you confirm, it gives you the option to pause it.
35:14
Speaker 4: At that point it's.
35:14
Speaker 4: It's one of those sneaky behind the curtain things that you were discussing.
35:18
Speaker 1: What kind of Konami cheat code is that?
35:21
Speaker 4: up, up, down down, left, right, left, right, cancel, pause Right right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right start.
35:24
Speaker 1: Come on, get out of my face with that.
35:26
Speaker 1: But that's good to know.
35:29
Speaker 1: I appreciate, I appreciate the, the follow-up.
35:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder, I wonder if I can spin my my credits.
35:36
Speaker 1: I'll, I'll check that out for sure, but but regardless, it's that feeling of like you're trapped into the subscription and so I think there's one thing to to talk about.
35:46
Speaker 1: You know our subscriptions good or bad for the industry.
35:50
Speaker 1: But I want to play devil's advocate here in that one of the people who advocate software as a service, especially coming from plugins and that kind of thing, they would say that subscription service help to curb piracy.
36:11
Speaker 1: By having a subscription, by having an internet, you know internet connection and you have to to kind of authenticate which.
36:21
Speaker 1: 15 years ago that was like mission critical Nope, hit me with a dongle or I'm not interested.
36:26
Speaker 1: But now we all the internet, internet online all the time, that's I don't think that's nearly as mission critical as it once was.
36:35
Speaker 1: But do we think, thinking, if we think like a developer, do we think that subscription services help piracy?
36:52
Speaker 5: I'm not sure.
36:53
Speaker 5: I I'm sure you know, I am sure that piracy is at the forefront of developers minds.
37:00
Speaker 5: You know that's, that's a given.
37:02
Speaker 5: I mean, I was in the software industry for a long time and you know piracy is a thing.
37:09
Speaker 5: But I get the feeling that you know.
37:13
Speaker 5: For example, when Reason Studios first, you know, try, you know they came out with their Reason Plus model, it seemed more about company cash flow to me than fighting piracy.
37:27
Speaker 5: I think Reason Five, I think, was the last version that got successfully cracked or widely cracked.
37:35
Speaker 5: So they had a pretty good handle already on protecting the software.
37:40
Speaker 5: But so I think for them it was more about cash flow, getting a consistent flow of funds into the company to be able to fund further development.
37:52
Speaker 5: Of course they also did it at a really bad time.
37:55
Speaker 5: They screwed up the release of Reason 12 pretty badly.
37:59
Speaker 5: They stamped all over the people like me who bought Reason 11 suite and sent that into a dead-end cul-de-sac, and so they upset a lot of people that way.
38:10
Speaker 5: But yeah, I'm not sure about the piracy thing, whether that's a reason or not.
38:17
Speaker 1: Reason Five and Six that was right when they went to dongles and everything, wasn't it, I don't know.
38:23
Speaker 5: I started with Reason Two, I went to Three and then I had a long hiatus and went from three to nine.
38:31
Speaker 5: Got you yeah.
38:33
Speaker 1: I know that Six is when Record came out, when they said, hey, we need to be able to record into the DAW, so they created a whole separate app called Record and it ran alongside I think that was, but they were using thumb drives for a while, and then I think in Reason.
38:51
Speaker 7: Six or.
38:52
Speaker 1: Seven Go ahead.
38:54
Speaker 7: I don't believe that piracy is a problem for the companies or piracy could be a benefit for the companies.
39:05
Speaker 1: That's a bold take on it.
39:08
Speaker 7: Maybe all of us maybe not all of us, but at least some of us started with correct versions of whatever DAW, and now we are producers and we learn the stuff, and now we buy the products because we need a reliable system and we want to have the updates.
39:38
Speaker 7: Honestly, I don't believe that piracy is a problem.
39:46
Speaker 3: Okay, George, you're shaking your head.
39:48
Speaker 8: Yeah, I agree with.
39:49
Speaker 8: I do agree with Rolf.
39:51
Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't think it's a problem for people who are professional composers and producers because, like he said, you want reliability, you're paying for reliability.
39:59
Speaker 8: I think maybe once I've ever used a piece of cracked music software way back in the day, and I mean it just locked my machine up and that was yeah, I totally got key logged.
40:10
Speaker 1: I was done.
40:11
Speaker 1: I totally got key logged from using a pirated version of FL Studio back in like 02 or 03.
40:17
Speaker 1: They totally had a key logged.
40:19
Speaker 1: Yep stole my credit card and, by the way, if you're watching this and you're using cracked software, congratulations.
40:24
Speaker 1: Do you think hackers are altruistic, you know kind of white hat folks who are wanting to just benefit the world?
40:34
Speaker 1: Nope, they are stealing your data.
40:37
Speaker 1: There are.
40:39
Speaker 1: There's no such thing as an altruistic hacker.
40:42
Speaker 1: Who's hacking.
40:43
Speaker 1: Who's hacking like Omnispher.
40:45
Speaker 1: They're putting key loggers in.
40:48
Speaker 1: They're stealing your credit card.
40:50
Speaker 6: Congratulations, yep but FL Studio I used, yeah go ahead Mika.
40:54
Speaker 6: There are also other ways to prevent piracy.
40:58
Speaker 6: Right, it doesn't have to be a SaaS model.
41:00
Speaker 6: There is a RENTO-own model that Splice is doing, which is amazing, I think, like you actually subscribe to it, to a plugin, until you own it and then it's yours.
41:09
Speaker 1: That's how I bought Serum.
41:14
Speaker 6: I bought Serum and, I believe, silent.
41:16
Speaker 8: I bought Serum the same way as well, and it was a great.
41:18
Speaker 8: It was a great way to pick it up.
41:21
Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree.
41:22
Speaker 6: And then also what Spitfire does, right, I mean, is Spitfire getting pirated at all?
41:27
Speaker 6: They don't have any subscription.
41:29
Speaker 6: But you cannot really, I mean, I don't know, I'm not a hacker, I don't know how to pirate it if I want it, but I don't think it's a problem for them because they have, like all these keys and, you know, every developer has these apps that have to authenticate your purchase, right?
41:45
Speaker 6: So there is kind of like a prevent piracy thing.
41:48
Speaker 6: You don't have to actually have a subscription to prevent piracy, I believe.
41:51
Speaker 6: Okay, now I'm not an expert, I just like my feeling.
41:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Killaharts has a.
41:56
Speaker 1: There's a little bit different.
41:58
Speaker 1: And, nigel, you recently subbed to Killaharts, right, there's a little bit different.
42:03
Speaker 5: Oh wow, just yesterday so this is Just yesterday and, yeah, they are one of the companies that I see doing this right.
42:12
Speaker 5: So, you know, for $10 a month every year, you get a $100 credit to buy a perpetual license for one of their products, whether it be face plans or multi-pass, or, you know, convolver or anything else or Sandpacks, but for the $10 a month you get access to everything.
42:33
Speaker 5: Now, one of the things that I think is really cool about what they do is that if you buy a Sandpack from somebody that has used, let's say, multi-pass, one of their plugins in that patch, in a preset for example, you can, it will open and play just fine on your computer.
43:00
Speaker 5: The only thing is you won't be able to edit any of the parameters for the multi-pass because you don't have a license for it or it doesn't break it.
43:09
Speaker 5: It will still work just fine, and I think that would be a good model for some of these other companies to follow.
43:20
Speaker 5: So, for example, if you end your subscription but you have all projects with instruments that you used, then just make them read only.
43:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, doesn't.
43:33
Speaker 1: Arcade does something like output Arcade does something similar.
43:37
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's kind of like Splice.
43:42
Speaker 1: If Splice was a plugin that ran in your DAW, you know what I mean, and not the Splice Bridge.
43:46
Speaker 1: But it's basically a sampler, and so any of the sounds you download kind of download locally, and when your subscription ends you can't download any more sounds, but things don't break.
43:58
Speaker 1: And so how would Museo or East-West?
44:02
Speaker 1: How would they accomplish that?
44:05
Speaker 1: What do we think?
44:06
Speaker 1: Is there a workaround?
44:09
Speaker 1: Good question, I'm not a developer.
44:17
Speaker 5: I'm not familiar with either of those products.
44:19
Speaker 5: I can't really say.
44:23
Speaker 7: I can speak for UVI Sonic Pass and I use a lot of the UVI products, like Falcon or what, and they don't have that.
44:36
Speaker 7: I either have to buy the single products or the instruments are gone.
44:48
Speaker 7: So I would love for UVI to have something like Kilohertz special rental-owned solution, or at least you have paid for it and at least we give you a read-only version so that your projects are not lost.
45:13
Speaker 7: That would be a great thing.
45:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like what Kilohertz is doing.
45:18
Speaker 1: They're basically giving you a rebate, and so, if I've subscribed to Composer Cloud, however long Composer Cloud has been a thing seven, eight years now right, it's been a long time.
45:30
Speaker 1: After five years like here's a $200 coupon, and so if I wanted to cancel my subscription right now, what I would absolutely miss is Spaces 2.
45:42
Speaker 1: That's a daily driver for me.
45:44
Speaker 1: It's one of my Desert Island plugins, and so I would spend that $200 and I would buy Spaces 2.
45:54
Speaker 8: No questions asked.
45:55
Speaker 1: And so I like what they're doing.
45:57
Speaker 1: And what excites me about this is that we have several subscription companies, software companies, who recognize that subscriptions just by themselves are a pain point.
46:09
Speaker 1: Nobody goes yay, subscriptions right.
46:14
Speaker 1: But finding creative ways whether it's rent-to-own, like Splice does with Serum, whether it's a rebate, like Kilohertz, whether it's amazingly no-brainer deals, like Muzio and their educational discount, finding creative ways to soften the blow, because I don't think they're going, they're not going anywhere.
46:36
Speaker 1: And just full disclosure.
46:38
Speaker 1: I mean, 52 cues has subscriptions right.
46:42
Speaker 1: So I just want to call attention to that right on the front end.
46:47
Speaker 1: And if it's not to gauche, I'd like to ask you guys, you know, is I mean you're all family subscribers, you know you're paying very real money to help keep all of this happening and so thank you.
47:01
Speaker 1: I thank you from the bottom of my heart at every opportunity.
47:06
Speaker 1: But what is it about 52 cues or any other educational services that you may subscribe to?
47:13
Speaker 1: Is it the fact that they are educational?
47:15
Speaker 1: But what makes what I do okay?
47:20
Speaker 1: But what like?
47:21
Speaker 1: Go ahead, george.
47:24
Speaker 8: A cost-to-benefit ratio.
47:25
Speaker 8: I mean there's no two ways about it.
47:26
Speaker 8: Like 35 bucks a month or whatever it is.
47:29
Speaker 8: I think that's it.
47:30
Speaker 8: We have access to you, dave, like you know, twice a week at least.
47:35
Speaker 8: You know where we can actually get on the Zoom with you and one ask questions about the industry and what's happening.
47:40
Speaker 8: Or two, for cue feedback.
47:42
Speaker 8: There are other services that I was a member of prior to this where to get your cue reviewed you had to pay a separate service for that, and that's where the cost-to-benefit ratio for me was like no, I just wasn't going to do it.
47:54
Speaker 8: So I think what you're doing differently is you're giving people really more for their money, and it's a subscription upfront.
48:02
Speaker 8: You're not changing it.
48:03
Speaker 8: It wasn't like, hey, pay one time and then, once you're in, you're hooked, and then you oh, by the way, we've updated and then you feel trapped, yeah, yeah.
48:12
Speaker 7: To me, it's a family thing that makes me ready to pay monthly the money.
48:22
Speaker 7: For example, two hours ago, my daughter came and asked me some questions about Harry Styles and that they may be alternate versions on Spotify.
48:39
Speaker 7: And what was my opinion if AI could do that?
48:44
Speaker 7: And I spent an hour and talk about an AI and music with her Because she's my daughter.
48:53
Speaker 7: That's a family thing and I'm ready to pay power and time and everything, and with 52 cues, I feel it's a family and I invest myself not only with money but with chewing people and you know, but that's a part of it.
49:17
Speaker 7: So for me, yeah, that's the main reason, not the I pay and I want to have this and that because, but rather I pay because that's my contribution.
49:32
Speaker 7: I'm just thankful for this community.
49:34
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah.
49:38
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Michael.
49:40
Speaker 3: Okay, If I can comment on this, why I'm subscribed to 50 QC.
49:44
Speaker 3: Maybe some of you know I have a budget pressure three times ago and I decided to not to quit it because I don't want to cut on educational.
49:56
Speaker 3: And there's a third reason, and this is the great educational channel or family.
50:02
Speaker 3: I like the family stuff about it.
50:04
Speaker 3: But the next thing is the words you are saying on the podcast.
50:08
Speaker 3: The community is supportive and positive and all the things come from you, Dave, and I don't want to use it as a second thing.
50:19
Speaker 3: And the first thing is I know there is something big coming in this family, Like I feel it.
50:26
Speaker 3: It's about the briefing room and so on.
50:27
Speaker 3: It's just to stay here and keep connected.
50:30
Speaker 3: It's really important for me.
50:32
Speaker 1: Excellent Thanks, Greg.
50:35
Speaker 1: Yes, sir.
50:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, for me it's kind of all of those points you know because I went to school at Full Sail University, which is where I met Dave and which is a great educational experience.
50:47
Speaker 2: But then once you're out on your own, if you're going into production music, you know you are on your own.
50:53
Speaker 2: So having this community for both continued education, like the feedback sessions and everything, is so invaluable to me, but then also the community, because it is a very isolated experience sitting in my basement writing music all day long, talking to nobody.
51:14
Speaker 2: So to have the office hours, to have the feedback sessions where you're face to face with people via Zoom, it really makes a difference.
51:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say those points for me.
51:26
Speaker 6: Absolutely Everything what Greg just said.
51:30
Speaker 6: I 100% agree, and everything what everybody else said.
51:33
Speaker 6: But also to me, it's kind of an accountability thing.
51:36
Speaker 6: Dave, you remember when 52Q started before it was subscription, I was already there and you, with your Facebook page back then, you made me start writing 1Q a week back in 2019.
51:50
Speaker 6: And that's how my career in production was actually started.
51:54
Speaker 6: I started because of your Facebook group and then, when you switched to new platform and the subscription started, I didn't jump on the train right away because there were some other reasons, because of time and stuff like that.
52:09
Speaker 6: But now I'm here and this is like such an amazing community that motivates me to write, to discuss things, to get better and actually to not actually slack off because I have this community to not disappoint People that I see every week, like, of course, they, but all of you guys I see every Tuesday, rolf, we see each other every other Wednesday in our master class, mastermind sessions.
52:34
Speaker 6: So exactly, I mean otherwise I'm at home alone all day, like 15 days in my studio, 15 hours a day in my studio.
52:42
Speaker 6: I don't talk to anybody, but now I mean this is absolutely no brainer.
52:47
Speaker 6: Bye, I'm just running right now, but it is.
52:51
Speaker 6: I agree to everything what everybody said.
52:53
Speaker 6: Well, thanks.
52:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, Nigel, yeah.
52:56
Speaker 6: I feel like I teed everybody up.
52:58
Speaker 1: Man, I didn't mean to turn this into commercial.
53:03
Speaker 5: Assume the checks in the mail.
53:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you got it baby.
53:07
Speaker 5: But no, I mean I to echo what everybody else has said you know it's the community here that is probably the single most important thing.
53:16
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, I, I, I've been Having a spell of a couple of months or I've been going through a rough time trying to, you know, get music written.
53:26
Speaker 5: You know, I mean I guess you might call it writers block I'm not kind of sure exactly what kind of block it is but you know, having this community has been one of the things has really kept me Going through all of that and kind of working through it and getting myself back to the point.
53:43
Speaker 5: But, you know, family, that's what it's about.
53:46
Speaker 5: I mean, we all have Crazy families in the real world.
53:50
Speaker 5: This is about the only family I would actually pay to be a member of, because you know it's, it's that valuable, you know.
54:00
Speaker 5: And, as everyone else has said, you know there's weekly feedback sessions, the office hours.
54:04
Speaker 5: You know that they're all immensely valuable and, as Mikal just said it, being a production music composer is a very isolating thing.
54:16
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know it's.
54:18
Speaker 5: You talking about your desert island plug-in?
54:20
Speaker 5: Well, I think pretty much we're on a desert island each of us.
54:23
Speaker 5: You know, most of the time and and you kind of feel like you're just bouncing around inside your own echo chamber a lot of the time and so having this, this kind of interaction and group, is it's incredible.
54:37
Speaker 5: That's good, chris.
54:40
Speaker 1: Chris raised his hand.
54:41
Speaker 1: I said specifically let's not raise our hand.
54:44
Speaker 1: But, chris, chris, students gonna student man.
54:50
Speaker 4: I didn't want to interrupt, you know.
54:52
Speaker 4: No, I was just gonna say one of the most important parts for me is the qualified feedback.
54:58
Speaker 4: You know I could, I could make something and give that to the 10 people I know, and they're all gonna go oh yeah, it's fantastic.
55:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, thank you.
55:07
Speaker 4: I know it's terrible, but the qualified feedback I don't know why I'm looking at you on the screen instead of my camera.
55:13
Speaker 1: Oh, that's all right, I've been staring off vaguely.
55:15
Speaker 1: I like I'm reading cue cards here.
55:17
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, as a, as a current student, and, and after going through your class and going into a few others, I decided that I think I wanted to focus on the production music side of things.
55:28
Speaker 4: Found out about 52 cues, um, and since I retired from the military in 2020, I hadn't found my tribe until I feel like I have now and I appreciate everybody well.
55:39
Speaker 1: Well, I, man, like I said, I didn't mean to turn that into a to a love fest, but I'll receive it and I want you to know anybody thinking about or any of our, our subscribers Listening, that the idea of the cost to benefit ratio is super important Because, at the end of the day, I wanted to create the thing that I wanted to exist.
56:00
Speaker 1: That's why I started.
56:02
Speaker 1: The Facebook group is like I want a Facebook group of production, music composers Just encouraging one another and so, and then it just organically grew and grew and grew.
56:12
Speaker 1: It's like okay, I want to have, like I want to just pour into folks, I want to be the, the thing that I wanted in the world.
56:18
Speaker 1: And so I take that responsibility very, very seriously.
56:22
Speaker 1: And you guys know I'm always looking from new things to add to the point where Shannon's having to like walk me back, like Dave, you don't have, you can't clone yourself, you can't, you can't do that, but I really really do appreciate it.
56:34
Speaker 1: And and there are other educational services out there.
56:37
Speaker 1: You know you are probably subscribed to some of those if you're watching these and and I bless and affirm them, because I don't have all the answers.
56:44
Speaker 1: I do not have all the answers and I am, you know, wrong about things and I'm learning and I'm not Better than you.
56:53
Speaker 1: I'm just.
56:54
Speaker 1: I'm just a future version of many of you.
56:56
Speaker 1: I'm just the Sherpa who's been up and down the Mount Everest of production music Maybe one or two more times than you have, but I definitely don't have all the answers.
57:06
Speaker 1: So I I really appreciate that.
57:07
Speaker 1: Thank you guys very much, and and so so yeah, and on that note, I think I think it's a good place to start that stop that feels nice and organic.
57:18
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for joining me today and and I really appreciate you and this is exactly what I wanted it to be and For you watching.
57:29
Speaker 1: This kind of thing happens every single week, whether we're talking about cue sheets or whether we're talking about subscriptions.
57:36
Speaker 1: In fact, this, the germ for this discussion, happened from Meeting with a family member and saying, hey, I, I think there's a whole round table here.
57:50
Speaker 1: But, gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me today.
57:54
Speaker 1: It was a real pleasure having you and, if I haven't said it enough, I need to say thank you so much for your continued support.
58:02
Speaker 1: None of this would be possible at all without you.
58:06
Speaker 1: So thank you.
58:06
Speaker 1: Thank you, shannon and I both thank you dearly.
58:10
Speaker 1: Once again, a huge word of thanks to Nigel Mikhail, chris, greg, rolf Mikhail and George for joining me on the podcast today, and I am looking to do this a round table idea again in the future.
58:24
Speaker 1: So be on the lookout for that.
58:26
Speaker 1: But I would love to hear your thoughts.
58:28
Speaker 1: How do you feel about Subscriptions?
58:30
Speaker 1: Is there a way to do it right?
58:32
Speaker 1: Let me know in the comments below.
58:33
Speaker 1: I would absolutely love to hear from you.
58:37
Speaker 1: And again, a huge word of thanks to the family, friends and patron subscribers of 52 cues who really do help keep all of this, all of this happening.
58:46
Speaker 1: And if that's something that you're interested in, if you'd like to join us on the subscriber level or even just join the community, it's free to join head over to 52 cues Dot com.
58:56
Speaker 1: That is going to do it for me this week.
58:58
Speaker 1: You definitely want to tune in next week because I Think we.
59:04
Speaker 1: I think we need to talk about Spitfire.
59:06
Speaker 1: I'm worried that they've kind of lost their way.
59:10
Speaker 1: Their latest Abby Road Strings one library has released and I'm friends.
59:16
Speaker 1: I'm kind of worried about Spitfire, so I think we need to think we need to have a chat, but that's for next week.
59:24
Speaker 1: I hope your week this week has gone really, really well and I'm looking forward to seeing you again.
59:29
Speaker 1: And just know that I trust and believe that the universe has amazing plans just for you.
59:35
Speaker 1: Until next time, peace.
59:44
Speaker 1: The music played on the podcast is copyright of their respective owners and is used with permission and for Educational purposes only.
59:49
Speaker 1: For more information and including joining the community and submitting your cue for consideration on the podcast, head over to 52 cues dot com.