Latest / Foul Territory / Joe Maddon Unfiltered: Ohtani-Rushing comms issues, Dealing with Devers, Blue Jays keeping the spark

Transcript

Joe Maddon Unfiltered: Ohtani-Rushing comms issues, Dealing with Devers, Blue Jays keeping the spark · Foul Territory

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Oooh, that's the good stuff right there.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: World Series winning manager Joe Madden joining us for a
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: vintage Joe segment, and I love every single bit of
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: that Joe, as I'm sure you do too, with the
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: camper and the whole deal. Great to see you, how
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: you've been, and also, were you catching some of our
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: prior conversation about catching.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Yes, that was a seventy six. Actually it's a seventy
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: six Dodge Van. Some of that looked more like a Volkswagen.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: I was catching part of the conversation. I'm in Pennsylvania.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: I've already played eighteen holes this morning. I got to
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: go cut the grass on this rather large lawn after
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: we get done, and then eventually pick my kids up
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: to more at the airport.
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: So it's all been good stuff.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Good, life's good.
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: What do you think about it?
• 0:45
  Speaker 5: You don't need to cut your grass before Scott gets
• 0:47
  Speaker 5: to it.
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: No question, go ahead.
• 0:49
  Speaker 5: You don't need to cut your grass, come on, that's allergies.
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: A tractor, you.
• 0:52
  Speaker 5: Don't need that.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: I just bought a tracker. I bought a Simplicity tracker.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: It's so much fun. It's about one hundred yard long space.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: You know, maybe forty yards wide. It's a place I
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: just bought to Airbnb. I'm having a great time. I
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: want to stripe it out like an infield or and outfield.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: This tractor is capable of doing that, so it's actually
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: kind of cathartic and it's fun. And it's about five
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: six o'clock tonight. It's gonna be nice and cool, so
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: it's a perfect weight Injurr day.
• 1:20
  Speaker 5: Do you go circles or do you go stripes? Do
• 1:23
  Speaker 5: you go angled stripes? Because I do the same thing
• 1:25
  Speaker 5: I love on my own yard.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: Say there you go. I'm starting out with straight up stripes.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: The grass was out of control. I just bought the place,
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: so I'm getting it back in control. So we're going
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: like regular crisscross stripes. Eventually I want to go angular.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: I've done a couple of circles, but I'm getting the
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: grass under control. It was totally a mess, was like
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: a bad airdo for a long period of time. The
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: guy that had it before me did not take care
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: of it. So I'm getting it back in shape slowly.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: But it's looking really good right now.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: And I know KP loves hearing about this too.
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: KP does yeah music I'm gardening.
• 2:00
  Speaker 5: To my ear.
• 2:00
  Speaker 6: This is music to my ears. Hey, Joe, I got
• 2:03
  Speaker 6: a question for you. Since, yes, sir, you are a
• 2:05
  Speaker 6: manager that has taken teams, you know, obviously winning World
• 2:08
  Speaker 6: Series into the World Series. I got a question about
• 2:10
  Speaker 6: the Blue Jays. Is a team that didn't have a
• 2:13
  Speaker 6: ton of expectations last year getting to you know, Game
• 2:17
  Speaker 6: seven of the World Series and then coming back the
• 2:20
  Speaker 6: next year with having a bullseye on their back? Is
• 2:22
  Speaker 6: that a real thing?
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: I actually wrote all that stuff down because that was
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: given that possibly of being a topic today.
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: I remember the two thousand and two Angels.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: We win the World Series in two thousand and two.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: Here comes two thousand and three, and man, everything was
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: just off right up into about the All Star break.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: I think the shorter off season, all the platitudes. You
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: think you're kind of cool, and then it's not like
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: you expect things just to happen overnight or that there's
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: going to be coming your way easily. However, you're just
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: throwing off your normal patterns. And I'm not not to
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: say that nobody wants you don't want to win, or
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: you don't care about not at all, but the dictations
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: are different, the target is a little bit larger, but.
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: Nevertheless it's just a different vibe.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: I you know, That's why I've been so impressed historically,
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: like but the Yankees as an example, and more present
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: tense with the Dodgers, where you're able to see what
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: first time eyes feel, first time passion on an annual basis,
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: when you have never done it before and all of
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: a sudden you do. Then you satiate that that first
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: does your first time eyes and your first time passion.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: The Michael Jordan's of the world, the Larry Birds of
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: the world, the Derek Jeters and that group of the
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: world are really the Tom Brady's of the world. These
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: are different animals where you can recreate that that feel
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: a first time passion annually.
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: And I think that's something that you need.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: You need a freak normally within your group to get
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: that out of the group. And so I again not
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: to denigrate the Blue Jests, I'm just saying what I
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: think happens.
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: So they'll get back.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: If they're slowly getting back, they'll probably make some kind
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: of a decent run as we get closer to the end.
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: But that's how I view it. You have to be
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: able to recreate these first time vibes within your psyche
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: within you. Not easy to do, but the guys that
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: can those are the dudes you want on your team.
• 4:12
  Speaker 6: And Joe, do you think that's better suit it coming
• 4:15
  Speaker 6: from a player or is that someone better suit it
• 4:17
  Speaker 6: like someone in your position?
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: Well, if someone in my position tries to do it
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: all the time, I mean annually. I always challenge myself
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: every year to you know, the first meeting with the
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: pitchers and the catchers, in the first meeting with the
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: position players to bring forth a message that I thought
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: was pertinent. I thought it could give us something to
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: you know, work with, hold on to direction on an
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: annual basis, and that for me, it never could be
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: the same.
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: I had to.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: Always sit down pretty much grind it out in January.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: I used to talk to Ken Riviza, the great sports
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: mental skills psychiatrists for years, and I would go over
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: this stuff to try to bring this forth and this
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: message with something. You want this refrain to be utilize
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: the entire season as you break for the season, maybe
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: it run the all Star break, etc.
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: So you're for me, this is my attempt.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: Now that's one thing and it does carry weight, no question.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: But when you were talking about the backup catcher role,
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: and I was thinking about David Ross, who did catch
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: the star as opposed to what Eric was talking about there,
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: but that does happen, and David had that kind of jack.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: David would meet players on the top step of the
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: dugout walking in if they had done something wrong on
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: the field. I mean it was it was wonderful. So
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: when you have those kind of people within your group,
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: I think peer pressure is probably the most significant pressure
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: that could be brought to bear on a daily basis,
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: even more so than managerial or coach pressure.
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: So is it more mental or is it more physical?
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: When a team goes like KP was saying, and because
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: the physical is whatever, all you know they have that hangover.
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: They played a lot of games, they pitched a lot
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: of innings. What do you think is more preval that
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: will cause a downfall for a team the next season?
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: Well, it could be, honestly, could be both.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, if there's any see that there's less time
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: for injuries to heal also from the previous year.
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: That was one thing that I felt.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: When I first experienced it with the Angels in two
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: thousand and two, then we went with the Rays in
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: two thousand and nine, and then of course the Cubs
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: did repeat to the NLCS in twenty seventeen. So you're
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: normally going to be faced with some kind of physical
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: distress with certain guys again, they'd have less time to heal, and.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: I think that is pertinent. However, I think it's more
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: of a mental grind. I do.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: I think that again giving an opportunity to do it
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: again if we were to win a World Series as
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: an example, I would definitely make sure that off season,
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: as you got like maybe December January, really start getting
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: in touch with guys to reemphasize listen, I trust you guys,
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: always absolutely, I trust you guys, but I want you
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: to think about this. As we get to camp. You
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: might be physically still getting over some stuff, but we
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: really need to get the minds in order more quickly
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: this year.
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: That's I mean.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: I you know, you could practice mechanics all you want physically,
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: but I think the mental mechanics are really what controls success,
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: whether it's a physical act or just an act in general.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: You know, as a duty as a coach, as a manager,
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: I have to have my mental stuff together for me.
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: To be.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: Pertinent to this particular group of guys to do my
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: job in a way that's good, that's going to matter
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: in a positive way. So I think it's a little
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: bit of a both double edged kind of a thing.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Some guys are overcoming injuries with less time, but I
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: think they're all to a certain extent overcoming this mental
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: grind that you have to really put it in gear
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: and push yourself to the point you get back.
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: Into that flow state.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: And my line was treat it, see it with first
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: time eyes, feel with first time passion, and if you
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: could at least think about that, that might motivate you
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: in that direction.
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• 9:01
  Speaker 6: Joe Teams, you think that's going to be busiest at
• 9:03
  Speaker 6: the trade deadline? And I guess my second part to
• 9:07
  Speaker 6: that question is you mentioned two thousand and two with
• 9:09
  Speaker 6: the Angels, two thousand and nine Tampa, and then you
• 9:12
  Speaker 6: know in Chicago. How was the manager's role changed in
• 9:17
  Speaker 6: were in your opinion in terms of the trade deadline?
• 9:20
  Speaker 6: In terms of how active a manager has in any input.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: When it comes to the trade deadline, I would say,
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: you know, when I first began in two thousand and six,
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: we had very little input. I think the guys back
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: in the sixties, seventies, eighties up to the nineties to
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: a certain degree, had a lot of impact. At that point,
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: the manager was more autonomous. The manager really had more
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: jack than the general manager in a lot of ways.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, if there was a decision to be made,
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: a player to be acquired, a lot of times it
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: was motivated through the manager and the coaching staff of
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: the major league team, which I.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: Thought was wrong.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: I always thought that was wrong because we don't get
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: to see everybody every day, whereas a scout can we
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: see when the team plays against us, So we could
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: be jaded or influenced by a performance over a three
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: or four game series where these other guys get to
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: see them more completely. So I think right now managers
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: coaches should not be part of that, quite frankly, because
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: you should be part of it only when you're asked, okay,
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: we're considering this. Of course you can make us against
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: of course I'm not saying that. But normally it's the
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: player's name is brought to you, and what do you
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: think of this guy? What do you know about this guy?
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: And that's really where the research would be more pertinent
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: to me. Personality, makeup what's he like in the clubhouse.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Those are the kind of things that I would want
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: to know. I mean, physical determination, evaluation of skills. That
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: to me is a scout's job. And I was a scout,
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: and I know the difference between that and managing. And
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: you have to understand there's a lot of bias involved
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: when it comes to managers and coaches. They'll see guys
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: that they like based again on a short term window,
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, there's a bias developed in
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: the favor of that guy, or even against that guy.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: Something that they saw they didn't like, and then all
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: of a sudden, we don't dig on this guy, even
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: though this is the right guy to be acquired in
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: this moment. So I don't like managers of the coaches
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: being part of this acquisition process. We don't have enough information,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: We don't see these guys enough. Our focus needs to
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: be right here with this particular team, here and now,
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: and I'll give you all you want to know about
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: my twenty five to twenty six man roster.
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, but very strong feelings right there.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: But the guys that are not in the room, I
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: don't have nearly the same kind of ability or confidence
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: to give you a really strong opinion.
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: But your a really strong opinion on those twenty six, well,
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: twenty five. When you manage twenty five guys will dictate
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: what the people who are going to acquire the talent do.
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: Is that a hard conversation or is that as easy
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: as going to a player and saying, man, you've just
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: been doing so well for us, knowing that that twenty third,
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: twenty fourth and twenty fifth man are going to be
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: replaced with much better talent.
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: Listen.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: For me, it's I want to say this the right way.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: It's not difficult because I want on a daily basis
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: to be absolutely upfront and honest with all my guys.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: Another action of mine is like, if I tell you
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: the truth, you might not like me for a week
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: or ten days, but if I lie to you, you're
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: gonna hate me forever. So you're a professional. You've been
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: a great professional. All you got you both of you, guys,
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: have you always wanted to hear it straight up? You
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: might not have liked it, You might have disagreed with it,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: you might have got pissed off. You might have went
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: thro this some other guys and said, you believe what
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: he said to me. But at the end of a
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: week or ten days, you might come back and say,
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: you know, he was right, or at least he told
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: me the truth. So that's the only way to get
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: through this. So these last three guys on the roster,
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: that's another thing. The rest of the roster has to
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: understand or see. They're being replaced by talent that's better
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: than them. I've been in this situation way back with
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: the two the Angels in the mid nineties. We replaced
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: Decarcinity gets hurt, and we go out and get Chico leaned,
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: and Chico was just not as good as he had been.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: And we also had Rex Heller on that team and
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: Spike go and who could have taken the place at
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: second base after Destar guard hurt and Damien easily moved
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: the shortstop. I'm here to tell you, man, that's not
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: good for the team. When you bring talent that the
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: group that especially the veteran group, already knows.
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: We already got that here.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: So if you bring people in there that everybody can
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: see easily, it's better than what we have no problem
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: about this twenty three, two, twenty six.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: But if you bring.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: Dudes in there that you can see easily. Hey, we
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: already had that in a room. That's where it could
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: get kind of tricky, and the guys come in and
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: really need to perform because if they don't, that's where
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: things could go sideways.
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: Whereas you're on, your.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: Compass was pointing north and now it's going east and
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: west heading south.
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: All right, I want to take you to the Otani
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: rushing situation from last night. Are you are you up
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: to date on it? Did you see the interaction and everything.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: I'm up to date because Claudie did a wonderful job
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: of describing it to me, So that's why I'm up
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: to date.
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: That's that's fair. Okay. So you have a young catcher
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: who in my opinion, will be a starting catcher one day,
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: but he is in a backup role and Will Smith
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: is out of there. Is it fair the criticism that
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: he's getting from people outside of the organization or is
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: it one of those things that only the team knows?
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: And Otani coming out and saying something means that it's
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: gotten to deaf con six right.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: You know, the people outside the organization, as you suggested,
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: really don't know and I don't really care what people
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: may say outside of the group outside of the circled wagons.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: They care a lot about what's being said within the
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: circled wagons. First of all, would show Hey. It's hard
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: for me to believe that he's not already working on
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: the solution to this. For me, the solution to this
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: is show Hey Dalton in room, pitching coach, manager, sit there,
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: let's talk through this. That's it. It doesn't have to
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: be any more complicated than that. The show Hey. I
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: even learned to not ask him or tell him what
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: to do during the game. I asked him to walk
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Matt Olson one time and.
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: He waved that.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: He wagged his finger at me to dugout, but he
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: did who I didn't do it? And then sure enough
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: I did it later in the game. Then I looked
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: up his numbers against the guy afterwards. It struck him out,
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: like ten out of fourteen times.
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: He knew what he was doing.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: Show Hey knows what he's doing, so it makes the
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: catcher's job easier. Just follow him. I would get them
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: in a room. I would talk about it very you know,
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: just very matter of factly. Again, and of course, Showy
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: needs to be in charge of this situation. He's very
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: good at it. So this is another situation. There's been others,
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: you know, the Dever situation recently, all this stuff Chisholm
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: with a blow pop in his mouth and on the infield.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: A lot of these things are just a product of
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: social media. Listen, it's a bad look, bad optics not disagreeing,
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: but they get way more attention than they deserve. This
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: is the kind of stuff when it wasn't as prevalent
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: to be these kind of things being discussed, that stuff
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: would have been handled in the locker room. Chishom would
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: have been told, listen, brother, never do that again. I
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: never want to see you walk out there like that again.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: This kid here, Listen, you never if Shohy wants to
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: do something, you just that's how it's going to be.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: And if you just will sit down and we'll talk
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: to him and it's going to be all worked out
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: and with devers of course, of course he was being
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: often not coming off the field.
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: I don't care what he says. That's what I saw too.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: These are the kind of things that should, through conversation
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: go away very quickly. You do not give him any
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: more impetus than they absolutely need. And furthermore, I want
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: people to start watching the game. I watch cutoffs and relays,
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: I watch first the third running, I watch a two
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: striker approach of the play. To talk about these superfluous
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: things really bothers me, because that's everybody's glommed onto. Talk
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: about the bullpens, talk about the game. But this other
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: stuff is ancillary and should be handled among the group,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: put away within minutes.
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: You attack it quickly and it goes away.
• 17:25
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  Speaker 1: Thank you to Zekeeek.
• 18:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I was going to ask you about bullpen. What
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: do you think the right way to kind of manage
• 18:29
  Speaker 6: a bullpen is? And I love asking you know, foreign
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: managers on here is the game missing out by not
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: having a you know, long relief guy in the bullpen.
• 18:38
  Speaker 6: What happened to the long relief guy and how valuable
• 18:41
  Speaker 6: was a long relief guy in your ten years as
• 18:44
  Speaker 6: a manager. And then lastly too the fact that you
• 18:47
  Speaker 6: don't have any options in the bullpen anymore. You're stacking
• 18:50
  Speaker 6: your bullpen with pretty much set up guys that have
• 18:52
  Speaker 6: no options.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's it's really it's an interesting situation. First
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: of all, I think in order to solve all these problems,
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: teach and premiitt your starters to pitch more deeply into
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: a game. That's a I mean the fact that you're
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: constantly pulling guys with four and two third innings with
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: the decent number of pitches throw a meaning not that many,
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: and you constantly want to hand the game over to
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: velocity at the end of the ball game. To me,
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, look at everybody's five hundred. Look at run
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: differentials right now. The only one, the only league with
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: run differential in a positive primarily is the National League,
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: and the American League has very few. So why is
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: this method so interesting and wonderful and good. It's just
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: accepted right now. It's being promoted right now. That doesn't
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: mean it's the right way to do it. In order
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: to solve a lot of these problems with the bullpen,
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: teach your starters to go more deeply into the game
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: that starts in the minor league level. And it's not
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: one hundred pitch exercise either. Guys are going to still
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: get hurt the more you attempt to teach to throw
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: one hundred miles an hour where you're throwing, you know,
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: as hard as you possibly can against the w and
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: there's no real pitching being.
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: Taught right here.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: That's where the injury is why we constantly it's always
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: being blamed on number of pitches thrown, right, I think
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: that is very insignificant compared to methods by which the
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: ball is being thrown. So let's teach guys they pitch
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: the third time to the batting order. Give them that
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: opportunity in the minor leagues. You're gonna take less stress
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: off of your bullpen arms, and then you're gonna be
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: able to parcel these guys out.
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: In a way that you're not going to beat them
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: up by the end of the season. They're they're all
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: they're all dead meat or they only have.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: A two year lifespan because they've thrown so darn much.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: So it starts with starting pitching. Starting pitching, to me,
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: was always the engine that drove it. That that's that
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: drives the entire engine of your major league team.
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: That's starting pitching. That's it's like a good offensive line.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: When you got those guys, man, a lot of other
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: things just start to fall in place.
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: So get back to that.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: Let's really nurture and support and build starters that know
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: how to pitch the third time through, take some of
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: the heat off the bullpen guys, and then for there. Yeah,
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: the long man. The long man saves you for days.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: I mean that means these other guys, and that's normally
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: in a deficit. It's not normally in a positive game
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: where you have a big lead, unless it's a really
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: big lead, but it's normally a deficit way. This guy
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: comes out there, saves everybody for at least a day,
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, guys come back to the
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: next day and they're totally refreshed and they're good for
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: the inning two and he's or maybe two days in
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: a row. So I think, you know, start with starting
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: pitching to answer a lot of these questions in order
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: to get this all in working order where you have
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: a chance. I still believe six seven guys, baby, should
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: be capable of a thousand innings annually. We did that
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: with the Rays. That was the one thing I talked
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: about every camp. I looked at the starters and say,
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: I won a thousand innings out of the starting pitching.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: Why is that such an impossible task anymore?
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: Because it's not taught exactly like you said, it's going
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: to have this predisposed idea of what hurts players. You
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: mentioned briefly the Devers situation, and I know you communicate
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: your players ahead of time, so you feel like you
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: have a pulse of what kind of player is going
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: to react to certain things. Right in that situation. We
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: just had Jim Bowden on and he said he would
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: have suspended Devers for the way he treated his manager
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: in the moment. Do you feel like that's too harsh?
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: Do you feel like as a manager you would have
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: handled it differently?
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I've I've been involved in suspensions like
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: that jose Gian back in the day with the Angels,
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: with Socian, I was all. I was all for it,
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: But that was a helmet involved in that too that
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: I didn't like, So.
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: That that's different.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: I mean he was that was insubordinate in spite of
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: his commentary afterwards, it's just, you know, it's dissembling. He's
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: just going to provide an answer that was that was
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: that was considered and talked about.
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: Hey, this is the one that press comes in afterwards.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: We're gonna we're going to say this in order to
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: diffuse the whole thing.
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: That's how it works, as you know.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: So that to me, I don't know that I would
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: have suspended him for that, But definitely would have been
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: in my office immediately after that, and it would have
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: been some real because I've had that too, and that
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: with some really good players, something happens on the field,
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: you know, like I've had it in a dugout, and
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: I don't mind saying Joel Pral too, I'd absolutely love
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: said something to me in a dugout, and I mean
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: in between innings and Baltimore and that was it. We're
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: going We're gonna talk about it right here in front
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: of everybody right now, because you brought it to me first,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: all right. If and actually if Deveres was walking off
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: the field, if the manager wants to just jump his
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: ship right there, there's nothing wrong with that, either not
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: at all, or at least in the tunnel at the most.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: So I think by nipping it in the bud quickly,
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: you could avoid the suspension, maybe possibly him addressing the
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: team that might not be a bad That's way more
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: significant to me than a suspension. It's a more difficult
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: moment for a human being to get up in front
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: of the group and be remorseful and say, listen, man,
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: I screwed up. I won't do that again. I embarrassed
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: the manager. I embarrassed all of us. I embarrass myself.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: I'll never do that. I'll never do that again. That
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: to me, would be more significant than the potential to
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: suspend them a bit.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: So that's the part two of this.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: We talked about rushing and how you know he's talking
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: about a light situation right after the game and just
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: laying it out right. And then Raffie's case, he doesn't
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: talk for three days and then I don't know he
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: caught that quotes, but yeah, he so this happened on Sunday.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: He speaks not on Sunday, not on Monday, but on Tuesday.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: And then I'll paraphrase, but I'm not off here, Joe.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: The key part what he was saying is that the
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: media overblows things and that's why he doesn't talk to them.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: So instead of and he did say that, he apologized
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: behind the scenes. So you got a little bit of that,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: but you know, it felt dirty because there was another
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: message that came out of it. My question for you is,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: how do you handle that? How does an organization handle that?
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Like you got to let the players say whatever they want,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: but do you take them behind the scenes and say
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: this is not how we conduct things with people, because
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: it's not just the media.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: When you say.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Overblown, now you're kind of talking about social media, which
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: is fans.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: Are you an avid reader? Have you been an avid
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: reader throughout your existence?
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Of books?
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: More so when I was a kid? Books? Yeah?
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: Book okay, yeah, yeah, books I'm about yeah, okay yeah.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: But then all the clancy stuff, Jack Ryan, protagonists and
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: other Jack and I love Ken Fall It okay, brother, okay,
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: Pillars of the Earth one of my favorite books of
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: all time, Worldwidot End number two.
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: I could go on and on about him.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: But Jack Ryan in Clear and President Danger, there's that
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: situation early on where there's a drug bust in the
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: Caribbean and it goes bad and the guy's killed on
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: the boat, and he happens to be a great friend,
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: a friend of the President of the United States, and
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: all the spin doctors come out and hey, hey, mister President,
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: you cannot mention that he's a good friend or he's
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: a friend, He's just an acquaintance that bumped him to
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: once in a while, whatever. And Jack Ryan's sitting in
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: the room right there, observing all this, and finally they said,
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: you know, Jack, what do you think about this, and
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: he says, well, sorry, mister President, and again I'm paraphrasing,
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: but no, I believe he wasn't just a friend of yours.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: He was one of your best friends. And I'm very
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: deeply sorry for this. And well, you're gonna look into
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: a little bit more, but this guy was a really
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: good friend of mine. The moment you run towards the
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: issue and absolutely blow it out of the water with honesty,
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: it goes away. The more again, the more you try
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: to hide this, the more people are gonna dig, and
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: the more they're gonna want to come out with whatever,
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: and then they're gonna then it becomes spun in a
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: way that can get out of control. So Rick Vaughan
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: in Tampa Bay was my media guy. Harvey would come
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: in and something would happen, and I'd say, we're going
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: Jack Ryan tonight, We're going Jack Ryan. And he knew
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: that meant straightforward, no disheve, no dissembling. We're not tap
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: dancing around this, because a lot of times you get
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: from the front office, they want to tap dance a
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: little bit because you don't want things getting out because.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: It may hurt trade value. Whatever.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: I don't like to tap dance because it's when you
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: say exactly what went on, and there's.
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: Times that you can and you would say, listen, this
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: is what I can tell you.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: There's a certain component of this I can't tell you
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: for reasons I don't want to discuss with you, but
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: that would also be for me honest and truth. But
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you what I can and it's
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: gonna be straightforward. And then she goes away period and
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: you have to stop thinking about you can't stop thinking
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: about it. So I would have my Jack Ryan. You
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: go Jack Ryan, you tell him the complete truth, and
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: then eventually not eventually, it has a greater opportunity to
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: go away and dissolve a lot more quickly than if
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: you try to hide it and spin it a bit.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: That's really good.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: See, that's the insight I was looking for, is how
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: does this get handled internally?
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: And really appreciate the insight here. Joe. We always love
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: catching up with you.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: It's good to see you, and then actually on our
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: way shout with your book of Joe with you and
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Tom Berducci. I heard and I hit every episode, sometimes
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: a few days late. But Travis Pizana was just on the.
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: Show Yeah, he was great. Listen, listen to him.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, you talk about a young kid that understands hitting.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, I mean I had to tell him
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: at one point listen, I'm not normally that agreeable, but
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: I said, I really like what you say and how
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: you say it. To Travis, his breakdown was spec tacular.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: You could expect this kid to be good for a
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: long period of time. There's a lot of humility, a
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: lot of sincere gratitude, plus a ton of skill. Check
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: it out. His breakdown of his hitting mechanics mentally and
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: physically are outstanding.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: I've heard that, yeah, doing things in the miners that
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: were blowing their minds. And then quickly he's up in
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: the majors doing that looking like he's a veteran and
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: like he's been in there for a long time. So
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: everyone listened to it. When you get a chance, catch
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Travis Bizan on Book of Joe. Joe, thank you, enjoyed
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: the rest of the day and cut up some nice
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: grass for us.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Please, I'm gonna go do it. And your conversation was
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: great before I got it. I really appreciate it that
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: it was a great setup for me.
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you. Appreciate it.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Guys, you got to appreciate she talks.
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: To people c k P, see zero, see you guys.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: Mhm