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The Motorsport Brief - Dakar Rally winner Daniel Sanders · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:04
  It is one of the most gruelling events in world sport and it's been won by an Aussie.
• 0:10
  Conquering Dakar on two wheels.
• 0:12
  Today, he is back on the pod to talk about it.
• 0:16
  G'day everybody, Rusty here.
• 0:18
  Welcome to another edition of our Garage Shortcast.
• 0:21
  Daniel Sanders, Chucky, has kindly come on to relive a very special victory.
• 0:26
  Just before we get going, our survey last year revealed how many of you enjoy the long form or feature eps.
• 0:33
  We have a three-parter released last week with the super sub Roberto Moreno.
• 0:39
  The Brazilian talks about going to the UK to race when he was younger and not even knowing a word of English when he left.
• 0:45
  How a chance meeting led to him driving for Benetton in F1.
• 0:49
  And his passion for the technical and development side.
• 0:52
  How he helped Ferrari perfect a groundbreaking semi-automatic gearbox in the late 80s.
• 0:58
  And the special memento that he's kept from that project.
• 1:01
  Plus the Australian Grand Prix winning in New Zealand, IndyCar and a whole lot more.
• 1:06
  True.
• 1:06
  Three hours worth for you to enjoy at your leisure.
• 1:10
  He has great stories and he tells them well.
• 1:13
  Now, unlike Roberto, I'm a bit of an idiot on the tech side here.
• 1:17
  And I may not have had the audio settings for Daniel Sanders quite right for the record.
• 1:23
  Thanks to Link and Rudy at Listener HQ for salvaging it.
• 1:26
  You may note the quality isn't quite the same as what we usually deliver, but getting to hear from the Dakar champion in a busy post-race schedule is what matters, right?
• 1:36
  As you listen to his answers, keep in mind that Chucky, because of those settings, was battling some echo in his headphones.
• 1:43
  As if the Dakar challenge wasn't big enough, the two-wheel champion overcame that one as well and powered on.
• 1:49
  Respect.
• 1:50
  Ask any...
• 1:52
  decent F1 driver or winning MotoGP rider and most of them single out this event as the pinnacle of motorsports.
• 2:00
  Unlike a GP or Speedway main event this is like climbing a mountain in the Himalayas or round the world solo sailing.
• 2:08
  It's isolated, you have to be a bit of a mechanical MacGyver and have a sense of calm to navigate your way through terrain that can be really low on clear landscape reference points.
• 2:20
  It is a relentless few weeks for everyone involved, teams, competitors, you name it.
• 2:26
  And when you're exhausted, they somehow summon up the inner fortitude to keep going.
• 2:32
  So winning must be something else.
• 2:34
  To give us a sense of how it feels and how he did it, we are super proud to welcome back Daniel Sanders.
• 2:42
  Mega mate, congratulations.
• 2:45
  Thank you very much.
• 2:47
  Fifth time lucky.
• 2:48
  So it took a wild roller coaster to get there, but...
• 2:53
  We've finally done it and are very, very pumped.
• 2:56
  Because it is so taxing right, so draining, when did the wind become real for you?
• 3:03
  It's still soaking in now.
• 3:05
  So those two weeks in the desert definitely take a toll on your body, mind, physically, mentally.
• 3:14
  So when we got to the finish line, it was pretty awesome to see my dad there and then the team to celebrate with them.
• 3:22
  Definitely got the atmosphere high and the excitement was up.
• 3:27
  So it was pretty cool.
• 3:29
  And I got back home and catch up with the family and friends at the airport and still got to have a little celebration, but it's been a busy week back home.
• 3:40
  It's been nice to try and chill out a little bit.
• 3:43
  That celebration is well-deserved, mate.
• 3:44
  I hope you enjoy that.
• 3:45
  Former F1 driver Mark Webber, legendary rider Jeff Lease, lots of people have rightly congratulated you.
• 3:53
  Has there kind of been a message or a call from someone that made you realise the magnitude of what you've achieved here?
• 3:58
  Yeah.
• 3:59
  Oh, yeah, it's pretty awesome to see, you know, those boys reach out.
• 4:03
  And, you know, looking back as a kid at those idols, it's pretty cool to see them following my career and what I'm doing now.
• 4:13
  It's...
• 4:15
  It's crazy because they know how big the race is, everyone does, and what I've just done, it hasn't really sunk in what I've just achieved.
• 4:23
  But I know the last few years looking at this event and wanting to win the Dakar was the big goal, and now I've done it.
• 4:33
  It's sort of just creeping in and slowly a reminder every day I've done it.
• 4:38
  You wowed everyone with your debut back in 2021.
• 4:41
  There were some injuries in between time, which undoubtedly held you back from winning it sooner.
• 4:47
  Was the build-up to this Chucky perfect?
• 4:50
  And what kind of things did you ensure or what kind of things did you do to ensure that you peaked at the right time?
• 4:57
  Yeah, those three years was...
• 5:00
  not nice after the first Dakar where you got fourth and was expecting some really good results the next year and then broke the elbow.
• 5:09
  So yeah, I would have liked to win one a little bit earlier, but yeah, you can't control those, that situation.
• 5:17
  So to finally have this last year of full, no injuries and to come in with a good bike and testing a lot with the team, it was super important to, to come in, uh,
• 5:31
  and win, I guess, with a lot of pressure on the team and myself, coming in fit and healthy.
• 5:35
  And then I knew that the race could change at any moment.
• 5:39
  So just had to stay focused every day and minimize those mistakes and don't make a big one.
• 5:45
  Am I right in saying, too, that there's a bit of Aussie influence here, that you perhaps pushed on the WP suspension side for Gilesie to get involved?
• 5:55
  How significant was that?
• 5:56
  Tell us about him and so on.
• 5:58
  Yeah, Gilesie from WP here in Australia.
• 6:02
  I've worked with him for many years as a junior and coming up through my professional career, from whether it was motocross, enduro, desert racing, he had that whole –
• 6:12
  platform and experience of all those settings.
• 6:15
  So I gel with him really well and he understands riders really well.
• 6:19
  So I pushed to the team to bring him along to, to develop the bike.
• 6:24
  And obviously with the suspension, it's, it's his bread and butter.
• 6:29
  So, yeah,
• 6:30
  it was easy to go with him.
• 6:32
  I could test back home in Australia and the desert here.
• 6:35
  And yeah, for the race, it was just, just comforting and just gave me more confidence of, you know, talking to him and then setting changes.
• 6:43
  We did just made sense.
• 6:46
  And it just gave me that smile on the face that I could just go full send in the desert and trust it.
• 6:52
  Now, in order to tell the Dakar 2025 story for you, we almost need to rewind the clock a little bit to August last year and Morocco, don't we?
• 7:01
  How significant was that result for you in the build-up to this?
• 7:06
  Okay.
• 7:07
  Yeah, there was no hiding that we were struggling with the bike for the last couple of years, also with injuries.
• 7:13
  But since Dakar 24, the team went back to the drawing board and we fixed the areas that we really needed to, whether it was suspension and chassis parts.
• 7:24
  So they did that and then we did a test in July and it wasn't quite enough.
• 7:29
  And then, yeah, they did another test and it was a little bit of a step I missed out on and then they brought...
• 7:37
  all these updates to end of August, first week of September to say, like, this is everything.
• 7:42
  Hopefully it's enough to make me happy and, and be competitive.
• 7:46
  So I got there and, uh, Giles, he was there as well and then just rode the bike and, and tuned it and they did make those steps that I needed.
• 7:56
  And I just told them there and there and like, it's, it's,
• 8:00
  It's time to go.
• 8:01
  This guy's done the work.
• 8:02
  I'm happy.
• 8:03
  I'm ready to race.
• 8:04
  And let's see what we can do in Morocco.
• 8:06
  I think we made the best step.
• 8:08
  And rolling up to that last world rally round was super exciting.
• 8:13
  Nervous.
• 8:13
  I was probably more nervous going into that because obviously the, the teams worked really hard and I've gone like everything.
• 8:21
  It's up to me now, all the pressures on me to, to perform.
• 8:25
  And I did, and it was a really, really cool feeling.
• 8:28
  And I knew for Dakar, we're in a good position and just in that one month and, uh, you know, it's probably six weeks from that test to the race, but,
• 8:38
  minimal time on the bike and that latest update to go out and to perform on the world stage was really cool for the team and we could only get better going into Dakar.
• 8:50
  And that we did and it just made my life a lot easier for the race.
• 8:54
  KTM's motorsport director, Pit Byer, had described it, your Dakar win as the most dominant victory I think that he's ever seen.
• 9:02
  What was it?
• 9:03
  Five stage wins, you lead from start to finish,
• 9:06
  you end up winning by basically nine minutes.
• 9:10
  Did you ever get to a point where you allowed confidence to creep in or was it just that you were in a groove and you could kind of ride on that on a daily basis?
• 9:21
  I was confident from day one, really.
• 9:24
  We won prologue and that gives you a good sense of where everyone's speed's at and how I was feeling and then...
• 9:31
  Day one, caught the guys and felt good and made some time.
• 9:34
  So that's another confidence booster.
• 9:37
  And I could sort of control it every day of just doing my pace and, you know, riding at 90%, not pushing 100 and risking the bike or my body.
• 9:48
  And just being able to have that extra time to focus on the road book and the nav to not make those mistakes where you do lose a big amount of time.
• 9:59
  So that was good.
• 10:01
  And every day was more confidence, more confidence.
• 10:03
  And then...
• 10:04
  I think by the rest of it, I had about 15 minutes, somewhere around there, 12, 15, and that's the best buffer to have because if you have a big mistake, it's only like 10 minutes and then you still got that five minutes to make up the next day.
• 10:17
  Yeah.
• 10:19
  So it was good and then the last few days was just like control it, maintain it and not make any big mistakes, which I did.
• 10:27
  And I did have the opportunity to make more time on one of the stage nine or ten, but I just got lost after refuel and got a little bit flustered but pulled myself back together and just said, you know, get to the finish line and do some damage control.
• 10:42
  That final stage, I think you finished sixth on that.
• 10:46
  what was the start like?
• 10:48
  What was that 60 kilometres like?
• 10:50
  Was it nerve-wracking or did you just keep the playbook exactly the same?
• 10:54
  Yeah, the start was something new that the organisers did and brought back from the past this mass start.
• 11:00
  So we had 15 riders on the line and it was a countdown on a clock and...
• 11:06
  Yeah, I was a little nervous, but I knew that my bike was fast and I was good in the dunes as well.
• 11:11
  So I just wanted to get out front and stay out of the trouble.
• 11:15
  And hopefully no one took me out.
• 11:17
  So everyone sort of jumped the gun on one.
• 11:21
  They all took off before go.
• 11:23
  So I was already a second behind and a little bit in the dust, but by the end of the straight, I was in second or third.
• 11:29
  Yeah.
• 11:30
  I just didn't back off.
• 11:31
  So they did a little cheeky move, the other riders, but no one got penalised.
• 11:36
  I just played the safe option.
• 11:37
  So I lost the whole shot award, but we got the big prize at the end of the day for sure.
• 11:43
  But, yeah, going through the dunes was...
• 11:46
  pretty cool and spectacular.
• 11:48
  It was everyone riding together.
• 11:50
  I had nothing to lose.
• 11:52
  Well, actually, sorry, I had a lot to lose.
• 11:55
  So I just took it easy and just sort of followed the guys to the finish.
• 11:59
  A couple guys took off and then a couple young kids were pushing and a bit sketchy.
• 12:04
  So I sort of let them go and just...
• 12:06
  took it easy, so I just wanted to stay out of trouble.
• 12:08
  Smart.
• 12:09
  What hurts?
• 12:10
  What have you done to recover?
• 12:13
  The throat hurts the most.
• 12:15
  A lot of talking and coughing.
• 12:19
  And when your body's so drained from that event and you fly home for, you know, the 16 hours and traveling around the country, visiting sponsors and stuff, it was, you know, it was pretty –
• 12:32
  A lot of toll on the body for sure from that last week.
• 12:34
  I haven't been able to party yet.
• 12:38
  The body is good.
• 12:40
  I managed it really well.
• 12:41
  Came in fit and healthy and didn't have any big crashes, and that's really important.
• 12:45
  So you're not nursing an injury or you're bruised or sore every morning.
• 12:51
  So kept it pretty safe.
• 12:53
  We'll sneak a quick break here on our Dakar debrief with Daniel Sanders.
• 12:57
  More on the other side of this.
• 13:01
  You're listening to our Garage Shortcast with a new name on the Dakar winners list.
• 13:06
  If you're enjoying this one with Daniel Sanders, don't forget you can find a feature ep with Toby Price in our library too.
• 13:13
  From Dakar to Fink, Trophy Trucks and a whole lot more.
• 13:17
  Search for it after you've finished listening to Chucky.
• 13:20
  Back to the convo now.
• 13:23
  I described it in the intro as gruelling.
• 13:25
  What was the hardest aspect of this year's race?
• 13:29
  Maybe it was the 48-hour chrono, I'm not sure.
• 13:32
  And do you feel different as a rider now than, say, 2021?
• 13:37
  Have you changed as a rider, or are you doing the same sort of things?
• 13:41
  Yeah, the most gruelling part of the race would have been the first week, I'd say, it was really important to be strong and consistent, and that I did, so...
• 13:52
  The 48-hour stage was tough, just to say mentally prepared and focused the whole time for that eight hours on the bike that first day.
• 14:02
  And then the dust the first couple of days was really bad as well.
• 14:06
  So to make passes, you had to risk a lot, which isn't a really good feeling to do at the start of the race.
• 14:14
  I kept telling myself to calm down and...
• 14:17
  Yeah, just to not take big risks, which I took a few, but we survived.
• 14:22
  And sorry, what was the second part of it?
• 14:24
  I was seeing if you felt like you had, you know, changed as a rider in that time frame.
• 14:29
  Perhaps you're doing things differently now.
• 14:30
  Yeah.
• 14:31
  I think the first year coming from a race, more of a racing start, the fishing guy, I had to understand the rally and the road book and the experience is a really big part of the race.
• 14:43
  So I think the navigation, keeping calm in these times when you get lost and the race.
• 14:52
  Yeah, I guess the experience of setting up the bike over all the terrain, what days to push, what days to calm down, and learning the area in Saudi as well.
• 15:02
  It was important to know the rocky areas and the sandy areas so you can set yourself up for a good day.
• 15:07
  My TV colleague, Michael Heaton, who you probably know, loves his bikes, he reminded me today that Dakar, back in the day, almost used to be slow and steady, build momentum, be there on the last day.
• 15:20
  Now it feels like it's go hard, win stages from the very first day.
• 15:25
  How different is the approach and the mindset in that sense?
• 15:30
  Yeah, the last few years it's been really don't win a stage because that's when you're exposed to lose a lot of time to the other competitors.
• 15:38
  we did the team briefing and it was like, I think Ricky last year only won one stage and it was like the second last stage.
• 15:44
  So they're like, don't win because it can cause dramas and you can lose time.
• 15:49
  And I don't know.
• 15:50
  I just felt different this year.
• 15:51
  And I was like, I think if you're going to win and be the strongest rider, you're going to have to be at the front end and open really well and not lose time.
• 15:59
  So I was just confident and back myself and, and did it.
• 16:03
  And,
• 16:04
  Some of the stages where I opened out, I actually got the guys behind because I was going so fast and I was in a good rhythm.
• 16:10
  I could navigate and be as fast as anyone.
• 16:12
  So that's something I guess I learned over the years and I was just so comfortable with the bike and gelling fitness and I could just let the bike do the work and I could focus on the road book.
• 16:26
  KTM as a company has been in the press because of its financial woes or financial troubles.
• 16:31
  Did that impact the Dakar program at all?
• 16:33
  Was it perhaps scaled back a little bit compared to years gone by?
• 16:37
  And the second part of that question, Chucky, maybe the wind was really good tonic for everybody just to kind of park all that.
• 16:44
  It was really good to get the win.
• 16:47
  The situation with KDM isn't great, but they downsized it last year with six, seven riders and three brands down to one team.
• 16:58
  It was a lot of pressure on me going in because the other guys in the team were injured and one of the junior kids coming up to learn the ropes.
• 17:07
  I knew the pressure was on from the company and myself and the team.
• 17:10
  So the future had a lot to do with it because they needed some positive news.
• 17:16
  And, you know, to go racing isn't cheap and to have backing from sponsors and the company itself was really important.
• 17:24
  And to do what I did was really, really upbringing for the company.
• 17:30
  It helped the positive vibes from everyone.
• 17:33
  And what they're doing was correct and perfect.
• 17:36
  you know, racing KDM's back and we're back up on top.
• 17:39
  So we haven't struggled at all.
• 17:42
  Well done.
• 17:42
  I sense a lot was riding.
• 17:44
  It takes a team of people, obviously, but I sense a lot riding on your shoulders based on the answer that you've just given there.
• 17:49
  When we last spoke to you on the pod, you were at the family farm, I think, in the Yarra Valley.
• 17:54
  Do you go back to that?
• 17:55
  What are you doing there if you are?
• 17:56
  And what is next on the calendar for Chucky?
• 17:59
  Yeah, we're back home on the farm this week.
• 18:01
  So just catching up with friends and family and doing a lot of jobs around the house.
• 18:08
  The grass is long, so we've got to do a bit of mowing and probably get the tracks ready to start riding next week, like the motocross and enduro stuff.
• 18:17
  Yeah, looking forward to that.
• 18:18
  And the apples are almost ready, so I'm going to be busy.
• 18:22
  And then got to check the bees out as well, make sure they're producing honey and hopefully can supply the country with some Chuckie's honey.
• 18:31
  It's time for you to savour that win.
• 18:33
  The notion of going back to defend it, to try and win another one, has that kind of crept into your thinking yet or have you not sort of ventured that far?
• 18:44
  I think next year for sure we need to back it up.
• 18:47
  No one's done a back-to-back win for many years, probably since coma.
• 18:51
  But that's the hard thing about the race because there's so much competition there now that all the riders are faster.
• 18:57
  Teams are putting in 100% effort.
• 18:58
  And...
• 19:00
  And just even looking back now, what I did this year to start it from – sorry, to win it from start from finish was really hard and I would never have thought that would happen.
• 19:10
  There's normally that yo-yo effect from starting from behind to get a lot of time and then lose a lot from the fronts.
• 19:19
  So that's hard, but I would like to go back to back.
• 19:22
  That would really –
• 19:23
  you know, put a pretty good dent in the competitors.
• 19:28
  Most definitely.
• 19:29
  I want to wrap this up with just a little thing for the audience here, right?
• 19:33
  So, remember, you've won the International Six Day, now Dakar as well.
• 19:37
  You are only one of three, I think, to achieve that feat.
• 19:40
  Among those three is the legend of Dakar, Stephen Peter Hansel.
• 19:44
  You're 30 now, arguably in your prime.
• 19:47
  What else is on the wish list that you might like to do aside of going back to back?
• 19:53
  I actually haven't had a good thing to myself about it yet.
• 19:57
  So it's pretty cool, especially with Stefan Pederhansel winning it, the six day and the Dakar, that's something that, you know, no one else could probably really achieve these days.
• 20:10
  And for me to do that, it's pretty special.
• 20:13
  I think that's definitely ticked off the biggest goals in my career.
• 20:17
  And now I've got to set the next one, which let's try and win as many more as we can for Dakar.
• 20:22
  And,
• 20:24
  I don't know.
• 20:24
  We'll have a good think about it and, yeah, reset the goals because that's the main thing I need to stay focused on something and keep that drive going to succeed.
• 20:34
  So it's going to be definitely the world championship for this year for the rally.
• 20:39
  And, yeah, Dakar for 26.
• 20:41
  We'll take a little bit of time off and then get into it for the rest of the year.
• 20:45
  Great stuff.
• 20:46
  Your first win, KTM's 20th victory at this iconic event.
• 20:50
  That is remarkable.
• 20:52
  You're only the second rider in the history of Dakar to lead from start to finish.
• 20:56
  Australia is well and truly the flavour of the world in a two-wheeled sense because of the calibre of rider you are and the gutsy, determined athlete you are.
• 21:06
  You have done everybody's.
• 21:08
  So proud, mate.
• 21:09
  Congratulations.
• 21:09
  And thank you very much for coming back on Rusty's Garage to talk about it.
• 21:13
  Thanks for having me, Rusty.
• 21:14
  It was good.
• 21:16
  And thanks to Australia and everyone around the world for supporting me and getting behind me for this crazy adventure.
• 21:22
  And let's see what else we can do in the next few years.
• 21:25
  That is it for today.
• 21:26
  I'm heading to Terratonga Park tomorrow in Invercargill, at the very bottom of New Zealand's South Island, an old-school classic track, right near a stretch of beach, in fact, where Burt Munro and his famed world fastest Indian motorcycle first made their mark that would be retold by Hollywood and Anthony Hopkins so brilliantly decades later.
• 21:48
  Back in the day, Bruce McLaren, Jack Brabham, Jim Clark and many more wowed the locals at Terratonga in some very, very memorable summer races before launching into the F1 season.
• 22:01
  Now, the next generation are here as a part of Toyota's Formula Regional Oceania Championship and a Red Bull Junior...
• 22:09
  has made a massive impression, so much so that he might leave at the end of this series with enough points for a super licence.
• 22:17
  Next week, you'll meet 17-year-old Arvid Lindblad, who is racing in Formula 2 this year and may just end up in Formula 1 as a reserve driver in 2025.
• 22:27
  It is quite a story.
• 22:29
  Is he the next big thing?
• 22:31
  Have a listen to find out.
• 22:32
  Keep an eye out for notifications on that.
• 22:34
  Hope you all had a really nice Australia Day weekend too.
• 22:37
  Bye for now.