Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Beautiful teen girl home on college break found naked, raped and murdered after jogging with her dog. What happened to Mandy Stavik?

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Beautiful teen girl home on college break found naked, raped and murdered after jogging with her dog. What happened to Mandy Stavik? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Maddy had just graduated from
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  Speaker 1: my school. She was in her first year at Central
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  Speaker 1: Washington University. She came home for Thanksgiving break. Mandy left
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  Speaker 1: her home on the day after Thanksgiving in nineteen eighty nine.
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  Speaker 1: She wanted to get in a run. It was kind
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  Speaker 1: of in the late afternoon. She had a daily route
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  Speaker 1: that she used to jog that took her down the
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  Speaker 1: road that her house was on on Strand Road, down
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  Speaker 1: to the Nozack River and back. She went with their dog, Kira,
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  Speaker 1: German shepherd. Dog was an older dog, but it was
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  Speaker 1: it was very protective of Mandy. I was panicked the
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  Speaker 1: minute she didn't get home one time, and then I
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  Speaker 1: was doubly panicked a few minutes later when the dog
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  Speaker 1: was there and she wasn't any And a missing person
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  Speaker 1: call is an ony one one call and it requires
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  Speaker 1: so many response and a deputy will go out and
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  Speaker 1: talk to the reporting party. In any investigation like this year,
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  Speaker 1: now look at boyfriends, anybody that they might have had
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  Speaker 1: trouble with. Nandy's boyfriend was cleared after he gave a
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  Speaker 1: police statement. How did an eighteen year old girl just
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  Speaker 1: starting her life vanish while out running with her dog.
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  Speaker 1: How does that happen? We hear the same scenario over
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  Speaker 1: and over and over. This girl, Amanda Mandy Stavic, vanishes
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  Speaker 1: in broad daylight around two pm November twenty four, jogging
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  Speaker 1: with her dog near her own home, Bellingham, Washington State.
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  Speaker 1: This is a lovely area, very low crime rate. How
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  Speaker 1: did it happen? You were just hearing our friends at
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  Speaker 1: ABC twenty twenty. Take a listen to this. Mandy left
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  Speaker 1: her home on the day after Thanksgiving in nineteen eighty nine.
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  Speaker 1: She wanted to get in a run. It was kind
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  Speaker 1: of in the late afternoon. She had a daily route
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  Speaker 1: that she used to jog that took her down the
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  Speaker 1: road that her house was on on Strand Road, down
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  Speaker 1: to the Nooksack River and back. She went with their dog, Kira,
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  Speaker 1: German shepherd dog was an older dog, but it was
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  Speaker 1: it was very protective of I normally went with her.
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  Speaker 1: I rode my bike, she ran on the dog pounded
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  Speaker 1: along after us. But that last morning which she disappeared,
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  Speaker 1: I didn't go with her because my sister was there,
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  Speaker 1: and so I kicked myself when she didn't come back
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  Speaker 1: when she should have come back. And then the dog
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  Speaker 1: came back without her. I was panicky. First person I
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  Speaker 1: called was her boyfriend. Mary was worried that man he
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  Speaker 1: was missing. Then I got worried. The dog came home
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  Speaker 1: alone after about two hours, and they suspected something terrible
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  Speaker 1: had happened to her. It was so unusual that people
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  Speaker 1: started looking immediately. You were hearing our friends at ABC
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  Speaker 1: twenty twenty, and it reminds me so much of the
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  Speaker 1: case of Karita Vatranto, the Long Island jogger. The one
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  Speaker 1: day her firefighter dad feel Vatranto does not go jogging
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  Speaker 1: with her, she ends up dead. I mean, that is
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  Speaker 1: a lot of guilt to carry around, And you're hearing
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  Speaker 1: the same thing in the case of this teen girl,
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  Speaker 1: Mandy Stavic, And that's kind of guilt that follows you
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  Speaker 1: and weighs on you the rest of your life. With
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  Speaker 1: me right now, an all star paddle. Ashley Wilcot judge
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  Speaker 1: and trial lawyer at Ashley Wilcott dot Com. Stephen Lampley
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  Speaker 1: detective and this guy knows his way around a courtroom
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  Speaker 1: and a crime scene. Author of Outside Your Door on
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  Speaker 1: Amazon On George Skiro DNA expert with scales biological laboratory
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  Speaker 1: in and boy do we need a DNA expert today.
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Catherine Maloney joining me. Renowned Deputy Chief Medical Examiner,
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  Speaker 1: Erie County Medical Examiner's Office. Doctor Carla Manley, Psychologists Fear Specialist,
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Carla Manley dot Com her latest book, Aging Joyfully.
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  Speaker 1: But right now to Joanna Small, reporter with k I
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  Speaker 1: R O seven TV. Joanna, thank you for being with us.
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  Speaker 1: Tell me about the area where Mandy Stavit went missing.
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  Speaker 1: As you mentioned, Nancy, it was the Bellingham area, but
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  Speaker 1: it's actually a little bit northeast of there, in a
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  Speaker 1: more rural community. It's Watcomb County, which is the closest
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  Speaker 1: county to Canada, and the town that Mandy lived in
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  Speaker 1: is called Askne, and it was a very small community.
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  Speaker 1: Everyone was very tight knit. In fact, the majority of
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  Speaker 1: her friends lived on the scene street she did that
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  Speaker 1: was Strand Road. They all went to a small high
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  Speaker 1: school called Mount Baker. People at that high school still
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  Speaker 1: remember her and there's teachers who are still working there.
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  Speaker 1: So Mandy's community was very well aware of her, and
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  Speaker 1: she was the other top athlete. She was a very
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  Speaker 1: popular girl. She had a lot of family members, so
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  Speaker 1: it was no secret that she was well liked and
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  Speaker 1: beloved in that community. That is hurting me so much.
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  Speaker 1: She is just a little girl out jogging with her
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  Speaker 1: dog and a small rural community there on the Canadian border.
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  Speaker 1: She goes missing, and it is a free for all.
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  Speaker 1: Everybody's looking for Mandy, an extensive search for a missing teenager.
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  Speaker 1: Her brother, who was visiting a neighbor, actually saw her
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  Speaker 1: run one direction and then a few minutes later run
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  Speaker 1: the other way. He was the last person to see her.
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  Speaker 1: Every TV station, radios, and even outside the state, national
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  Speaker 1: media we're covering it. I was in my first year
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  Speaker 1: as a reporter at the Bellingham Herald at the time.
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  Speaker 1: I hopped in my car and I drove out and
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  Speaker 1: interviewed Mary. She understood that there was a chance that
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  Speaker 1: we could help. You're hearing the voice of a Bellingham
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  Speaker 1: Herald reporter Carol Herrick at ABC twenty twenty Joanna Small
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  Speaker 1: with me ka I r O seven TV. Joanna tell
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  Speaker 1: me about the search that ensued and who first called
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  Speaker 1: nine one one. Mandy again was a very well liked,
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  Speaker 1: very popular girl. Most people knew of her and really
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  Speaker 1: cared about her family, So immediately a search was launched
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  Speaker 1: a very extensive search because I mentioned if it's an
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  Speaker 1: extremely rural area right along the Nooksack River, and it
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  Speaker 1: was such a large geographic space, so it required a
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  Speaker 1: lot of manpower. There were hundreds, hundreds of people who
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  Speaker 1: were out there searching for Mandy, and it was pretty
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  Speaker 1: overwhelming detectives. People from Bellingham, people from Seattle, and that's
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  Speaker 1: about two and a half hours south of the Acne area.
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  Speaker 1: So the search continued for several days. People she'd gone
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  Speaker 1: to high school with, people from her past, people who
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  Speaker 1: didn't even know her. And again it was extensive. The
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  Speaker 1: Nooksack River is a fact moving, very long and wide river,
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  Speaker 1: and they were searching the entire area, so it was
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  Speaker 1: incredibly time consuming and incredibly intent. You know, very often
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  Speaker 1: people think if they have a dog with them, it
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  Speaker 1: saves them from danger. And actually, as you know, Ash Walcott,
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  Speaker 1: I'm working on a new book, Don't be a Victim,
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  Speaker 1: and that is one of the tips I give people,
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  Speaker 1: if you can take a dog with you. She did
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  Speaker 1: take a dog with her, but that did not stop
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  Speaker 1: her from going missing. And I'm looking at a photo
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  Speaker 1: of her right now, and you can see this photo
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  Speaker 1: at crime online Dot com. She has the hairstyle of
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  Speaker 1: the day. It's long and then waves, kind of like
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  Speaker 1: a fair of faucet, but not exactly beautiful, kind of
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  Speaker 1: a strawberry blonde, big brown eyes, and somebody puts some
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  Speaker 1: money into her smile, because there's no way you can
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  Speaker 1: have a smile that perfect. Jack. You look at this,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, look at that. I mean somebody loves this
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  Speaker 1: girl and is taking care of her. The one day
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  Speaker 1: they don't go jogging with her, she goes missing. To
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  Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot, judge and trial lawyer at Ashley Wilcot dot com.
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  Speaker 1: How many times do we do things in retrospect as teens,
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  Speaker 1: as young people, even just up until the time the
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  Speaker 1: twins were born, I would go running up and down
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  Speaker 1: the East River at night at ten o'clock at not
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  Speaker 1: me a felony prosecutor that knows better. It's a feeling
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  Speaker 1: of invincibility. I think it is, and I think that
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  Speaker 1: goes with you. But keep in mind, generally, can you trust? Sure? Right,
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  Speaker 1: people can trust and you can trust that you can
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  Speaker 1: go a run, that it's all okay and it's going
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  Speaker 1: to be okay. But here's the thing I need to
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  Speaker 1: say about the dogs, because I noticed that as well.
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  Speaker 1: When you go running or you have a dog with you,
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  Speaker 1: you absolutely assume that it's safer and that you're going
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  Speaker 1: to be okay. So the two things I would look
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  Speaker 1: for as a result of that is, Number one, anyone
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  Speaker 1: at all that they questioned that they interviewed, did they
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  Speaker 1: have any marks that could have been caused by a dog,
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  Speaker 1: because that dog might have bitten or gone after somebody
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  Speaker 1: who tried to get to her. The second thing is
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  Speaker 1: I would think in my mind it must have been
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  Speaker 1: somebody that she knew and that knew her dog, because
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  Speaker 1: then a dog would not be defending her necessarily. Well,
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  Speaker 1: I don't really even know for sure what the dog,
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  Speaker 1: what kind it was. I mean, I mean, if it's
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  Speaker 1: our dog, it's a chubby little docks and and I
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  Speaker 1: don't know, you know, if he would pose that much
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  Speaker 1: of a threat, although he does a lot of growl
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  Speaker 1: crime stories. With Nancy Grace, we are talking about an
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  Speaker 1: eighteen year old girl just starting her life vanish while
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  Speaker 1: out running with her dog. Stephen Lampley, detective at Stephen
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  Speaker 1: Lampley dot com, Author Outside your Door Stephen Lampley, What
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  Speaker 1: about it? How safe is it? For someone like Mandy
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  Speaker 1: to go jog in remember this a very rural area.
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  Speaker 1: How does that play you into the scenario, Stephen, Well,
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  Speaker 1: that you would think it would be safe, you know,
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  Speaker 1: you would you would reasonably suspect that she's in a
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  Speaker 1: rural area and she has a dog that even that
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  Speaker 1: even answer a German shepherd, you know. And on top
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  Speaker 1: of that, you would you would think that you could
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  Speaker 1: go jogging and ben be safe. Oh, it's a German shepherd.
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  Speaker 1: Hold on, Joanna Small, it's a German shepherd. It's a
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  Speaker 1: German shepherd. I think it's an older dog though, between
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  Speaker 1: like ten and twelve years old, the German shepherd that
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  Speaker 1: she grew up with. Does it still have teeth? That's
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  Speaker 1: my question because Stephen Lampley, you know, I get into
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  Speaker 1: it all the time about pit bulls and how they
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  Speaker 1: eat people. Although there was a recent pit bull that
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  Speaker 1: saved a family's life from a coral snake and his
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  Speaker 1: name was Zeus and he passed away, okay, and I
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  Speaker 1: feel awful about that, But they do still eat people.
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  Speaker 1: German shepherds are right up there, I think in the
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  Speaker 1: top three of they will bite you. Yes, And she
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  Speaker 1: she has this German shepherd and they have a reputation
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  Speaker 1: for defending. They're very, very loyal animals. So, as a
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  Speaker 1: police officer, if if I see, if I see a
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  Speaker 1: case like this, and you know this as well as
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  Speaker 1: I do, Nancy, whenever you have a young person that
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  Speaker 1: comes up missing like in under these circumstances, it never
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  Speaker 1: ends well. As opposed to is if you have an
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  Speaker 1: elderly person that comes up missing, maybe that person just
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  Speaker 1: forgotten how to get home, maybe they got lo astro
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  Speaker 1: got preoccupied. Those don't always end bad. But whenever you
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  Speaker 1: have a young person that ends up missing like this,
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  Speaker 1: it almost always is not a good result. Yeah, and
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  Speaker 1: I know that Steve Lampley is speaking anecdotally, but the
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  Speaker 1: statistics do bear out what he is saying. Take a
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  Speaker 1: listen to this. Learned what Mandy's normal route was and
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  Speaker 1: followed the sign and found the evidence that it was
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  Speaker 1: her sign that was coming out onto that road, it
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  Speaker 1: was her tracks, and followed it to a place where
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  Speaker 1: the tracks just stopped and they shouldn't have. Her dog
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  Speaker 1: was running with her and the dog tracks stopped there. Also,
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  Speaker 1: it makes you think probably someone pulled her into a
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  Speaker 1: car and took off with her. I mean, that's kind
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  Speaker 1: of the worst. She's not going to be forcibly taken
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  Speaker 1: forcibly unless two or three guys grabbed her. And there
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  Speaker 1: was no evidence of that on the road. There was
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  Speaker 1: no scuffling and pushing and shoving and that type of thing.
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  Speaker 1: The question was, was it just somebody driving by that
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  Speaker 1: drove up that road and sees this beautiful girl running
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  Speaker 1: with a dog and decides to grab her, or was
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  Speaker 1: it somebody that knew her? And I'm trying to absorb
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  Speaker 1: everything that track or Joel Harden is saying there to
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  Speaker 1: twenty twenty to Joanna Small, reporter jointing me from k
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  Speaker 1: I R O sevent TV. What is he saying about
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  Speaker 1: finding trucks they believe they're Mandy's and then suddenly they
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  Speaker 1: stopped and no evidence of a scuffle. Explain interpret to
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  Speaker 1: me what he's saying. Well, again, we prefer to it
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  Speaker 1: several times. But the area being very very world in
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  Speaker 1: Azec River is surrounded by brush and so it's very
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  Speaker 1: easy to kind of disappear into that brush area. And
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  Speaker 1: you have to remember Mandy was an athlete. She was
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  Speaker 1: a star basketball player. She ran almost every day. I
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  Speaker 1: don't think there was a sport that she didn't play,
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  Speaker 1: and she ran very very quickly. There would never It's
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  Speaker 1: not surprising him. Wouldn't be surprising to any detective that
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  Speaker 1: there wasn't a visible scuffle. People were pretty sure she
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  Speaker 1: could outrun just about anyone. Well yeah, unless that person
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  Speaker 1: was in a car, because I mean, if you think
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  Speaker 1: about it, common sense agrees with you. But when I
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  Speaker 1: think back on you know, Karina Vatronto, she was much
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  Speaker 1: more physically fit than her killer, Chanelle Lewis. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: he was addled with dope and booze. She could definitely
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  Speaker 1: outrun him, but he had the muscles and let's see
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  Speaker 1: Molly Tippets, she could have outrun her killer. I mean
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  Speaker 1: these women. I think about Missy Beavers, who was not running,
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  Speaker 1: but it's an exercise gladiator instructor who was I guarantee
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  Speaker 1: you more fit than whoever killed her. There's not a
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  Speaker 1: gladiator called a gladiator instructor for no reason. So I
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  Speaker 1: find it really interesting to Steve Lampley that they can
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  Speaker 1: fall all her tracks, you know, tennis shoes, running shoes,
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  Speaker 1: and of course you see the dog tracks beside it,
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  Speaker 1: you know that's her. And then suddenly they just stop.
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  Speaker 1: There's if it's mud or sand or dirt. Do you
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  Speaker 1: see that, it just stops. Analyze that for me, Stephen Lampley, Wellancia,
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  Speaker 1: I wish I could see what they saw on the footprints.
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  Speaker 1: To have footprints, in other words, just to have to
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  Speaker 1: have a couple of footprints like she's jogging and then
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  Speaker 1: nothing more, without any scuff, without any turning of the
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  Speaker 1: footprint like she's turned to talk to someone. To have
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  Speaker 1: just footprints like she lifted off is really suspicious. I
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  Speaker 1: would think there would be perhaps the ending, but maybe
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  Speaker 1: she would have turned to talk to somebody, or the
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  Speaker 1: footprints would have been smeared. There would be something more
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  Speaker 1: than they just ended. In my opinion, Well, also think
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  Speaker 1: about this, as Jackie here in the Student accurately points out,
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  Speaker 1: she wouldn't just leave her dog behind, getting the car
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  Speaker 1: willingly and leave her dog behind. For those of you
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  Speaker 1: just joining us, a graduate of Mount Baker High Mandy Stavock,
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  Speaker 1: home on bright from her freshman year at Central Washington University,
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  Speaker 1: goes jogging, but then her German shepherd dog Kira, returns
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  Speaker 1: home three hours later without Mandy, and then the nightmares
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  Speaker 1: come true. This which went on for three days. She
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  Speaker 1: was found on the third day. Mandy was found on
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  Speaker 1: the south fork of the Nebsack River, probably close to
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  Speaker 1: five and a half six miles from her house. There
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  Speaker 1: was a bend in the river and some debris in
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  Speaker 1: the body was just hung up in the debris there.
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  Speaker 1: I saw her body. She was faced out. She was
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  Speaker 1: just kind of suspended, just a little bit off the bottom.
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  Speaker 1: There was a branch there. There was some debris that
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  Speaker 1: prevented her from floating any further downstream. She was naked
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  Speaker 1: except for shoes and socks on do you tennis shoes
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  Speaker 1: match the description? The detective that was with me dispatched
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  Speaker 1: himself in a quick fashion to get to the family
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  Speaker 1: home to let her know we had found her. I
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  Speaker 1: wouldn't wish this on even my worst enemy. There's nothing,
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  Speaker 1: there is nothing worse. There's nothing worse than losing a child.
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  Speaker 1: Oh my stars, just hearing the mom is so so upsetting.
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  Speaker 1: You're hearing our friends at ABC and Mandy's mom to
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  Speaker 1: Carla Manly, psychologist and if you're specialist at doctor carl
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: up Manly dot com, her many mini books on Amazon
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: dotor Carla Manly, Well, my fiance was murdered. I had
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  Speaker 1: no idea there could be a pain worse than that.
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  Speaker 1: At when I lost my dad. It seemed to bring
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  Speaker 1: it all back, the thought of losing a child, your child.
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  Speaker 1: To me, I don't think I could go on, Doctor Marley.
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  Speaker 1: I do believe that would be the worst loss, absolutely,
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  Speaker 1: because it's not what we expect as a parent. We
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  Speaker 1: want to be the one who predeceases the child, and
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  Speaker 1: so the parent in this case, this beautiful mother is
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  Speaker 1: left thinking, oh, this year Mandy would be doing this,
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  Speaker 1: and in fact, this year where we are right now,
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  Speaker 1: she would be likely turning forty eight. And when we
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  Speaker 1: start getting into the mother's shoes and realizing what an
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  Speaker 1: incredible life long loss this is. When we have this
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  Speaker 1: violent person who an opportunistic act in a beautiful small
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  Speaker 1: world community and wipes out one of her most if
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  Speaker 1: not her most beloved being on the planet, it's horrific
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  Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace, the medical examiner determined Mandy's
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  Speaker 1: cause of death to be drowning. She'd suffered a head
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  Speaker 1: injury and had been sexually assaulted. They took DNA evidence
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  Speaker 1: from Mandy's body. They created a DNA profile of both
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  Speaker 1: Mandy and an unknown male. Time and time again, they
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  Speaker 1: would have a person of interest, they would question that person,
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  Speaker 1: but something would rule them out, they had a good alibi,
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  Speaker 1: or ultimately their DNA did not match. This case dragged on.
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  Speaker 1: It comes a gold case, but after ten, fifteen, twenty years,
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  Speaker 1: it's like, well, it's never gonna be solved. Our friends
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  Speaker 1: at ABC and we're talking about the cold case of
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  Speaker 1: ma Andy Stavit, a teen girl home from college on
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  Speaker 1: Breake Thanksgiving. Breake goes jogging with her German shepherd dog.
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  Speaker 1: Never comes home. Her body found in a river, naked
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  Speaker 1: except for shoes and socks. I mean to me, right there,
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  Speaker 1: that is the tip off she was sex assaulted, but
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  Speaker 1: the medical examiner confirmed it. To doctor Catherine Maloney joining me,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Deputy Chief Medical Examiner at Erie County Medical Examiner's Office,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Nickel City Forensics, Doctor Maloney, how do they tell after
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: a body has been in the water for that period
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: of time three days, what the cause of death is
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: and that there was a sex assault. Well, and in
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: terms of a sex assault, you could look for trauma
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: to the genitalia. You could also do swabs to look
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: for the presence of sperm or the for DNA to
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: be in those swabs. And then in terms of drowning
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: being the diagnosis drowning is sort of a diagnosis of
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: exclusion where you sort of excluded everything else. So the
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: person wasn't stabbed, they weren't shot, they weren't strangled. They
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: did say she had the it sounded like a bruise
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: on the back of her head. So with nothing else
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: than the assumption becomes the person must have been drowned.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: They're found in water. Well, actually, when you find a
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: body naked except for the shoes and socks in water dead,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: the fact that she was unclosed says to me immediately
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: there was a sex attack. It's freezing cold, she's got
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: on socks and shoes, so that rules out a swim,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: which is, you know, you know, far fetched to start with.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: But the fact that she's naked and in the water
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: says to me she has been sex assaulted. That goes
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: to motive to whoever killed her. If this had been
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: a consensual relationship, a consensual sex relationship, she likely would
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: not have been killed. So put that together and that
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: gives me a sex motive for murder. To Kathery Maloney,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Nickel City Forensics. Doctor Maloney's speaking of DNA. You would
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: think that rushing water would take the DNA off the body.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: But when the DNA is in the body, such as
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: in the vagina or the vaginal tract, the water would
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: have no effect on it. It would stay there. That
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: is correct. The DNA basically would have been in a
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: place where it couldn't have been washed off, Doctor Maloney,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: How long can you get a viable DNA match from DNA,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: for instance, in the vaginal track. That's a good question.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: It probably depends on the condition of the body and
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: the condition of the where the body is found, if
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: the body's decomposed, if there's any type of insect or
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: animal activity that could have disrupted the presence of the DNA.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: It really is kind of on a case by case basis.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I remember arguing to juries that and this is before DNA,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: that DNA at trial anyway, there's always been doubt so
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Ry Bundy Clayke acid, but before we could perfect it
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: to bring it into trial. Sperm lies generally three days
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: about swimming around. First the tail breaks off, the next
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: day the head breaks off. Then after that that the
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: sperm starts to degenerate, deteriorate. However, DNA not fully intact
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: sperminozoa still exists. Joining me right now, DNA expert from
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Scales Biological Laboratory, George Skiro, George Skiro, how long, let's
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: just say, inside the vaginal tract or in the mouth,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: or the throat or in your rectum, how long inside
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: a body will DNA be preserved? Well, Nancy, As the
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: doctor pointed out, there are a number of variables that
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: go into that, and that's one of the things that
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: we kind of call the holy grail of forensic science
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: is trying to determine what we call postcoital interview interval,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: how long maybe time lapse between finding sperm and the
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: actual incident. And the data is all over the map.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: There is one case where actually up to nineteen days
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: later in a cadaver they found in texts fermatozoa. So
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: there's no real timeline you can put on that. So
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: as long as it's there, as long as it's not disturbed,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: as long as it's not deluded, it can last many days. Wow,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: So we would be able to recover that and take swabs,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: and then take those swabs and then determine if they're
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: spermatozoa present, and then determine DNA. Determined the DNA from
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: those spermatozoa. Back to Joanna Small, reporter with ki r
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: O seven TV. We know it's three days later that
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: a searcher came upon Mandy's lifeless and naked body. They're
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: in the South Fork the Nusack River. Who found her body.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: That was Detective Ron Peterson. Initially a search team that
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: was going that was actually in the river, that was
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: in the river by boat, saw the body. They were
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: volunteer firefighters. They feel comfortable approaching the body, so they
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: contacted Detective Ron Peterson with the Wacom County Sheriff's Office,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: who immediately went to that area and saw, as you mentioned,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: her body faced down in the water with only shoes
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: and socks. And Ron also has a daughter who went
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: to school with Mandy and looked a whole lot like
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Mandy in terms of, you know, the same hair, the
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: same eyes, and immediately his mind, he told me, went
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: to his daughter, and so when he turned her over,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: it was extremely emotional for him. Everybody in that department
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: has a personal connection to either the family, the community,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: or Mandy herself, and so it was heartbreaking. The search
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: begins from Mandy stavits kill or listen. We went out
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: and contacted as many folks as we could, asked for samples,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: try to find out what they might have known or
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: what they might have heard over the last thirty years.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: It's the longest case I worked on without having an
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: investigative leave DNA wise, at one point we sent thirty
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: one samples at one time, and she sorted to all
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: of them. Wouldn't say you lose hope after comparing that
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: many samples, but you can't be as excited each time
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: when you get let down that many times. To me,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: it was if you haven't got anything to hide, then
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: there's no problem giving your DNA. And I had no
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: problems asking. The case had never never left the thoughts
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: of Mandy's france, and so two women were talking about
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: the case and talking about what a strange person Timpass was.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: We should talk to the sheriff's office, they should look
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: at him. To doctor Carl a man, you hear friends
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: suddenly say, here's a guy who has a very odd behavior.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Look at him, and the odd behavior. I don't know
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: about any other odd behavior but I do know. Well, actually,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: take a listen to this. They were supposed to get
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: married when she graduated from high school. After Nandy was killed,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: he married her. It was a very sudden thing. All
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, he comes to me and he's like,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: do you want to get married now? And so we
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: got married. They had three children together, and he became
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: a local delivery driver for the Franz Bakery outlet Crime
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. He was very controlling and always
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: told me what to do, what I could wear, what
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: I couldn't wear, who I could talk to, who I
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: couldn't talked to. He didn't even call me by my name,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: he called me by For twenty ten, Gina had filed
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: for a domestic Islands protection order for herself and her
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: three children. In the order, she had said that she
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: didn't feel safe and that Tim would watch Cold Case
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: TV files. When he would watch the cold case files
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: or movies that pertain to murder, he would always say
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: the murderer was stupid, one didn't cover his tracks very well,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: and he wouldn't be stupid enough to get caught. Wow, Okay,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: that's scary enough right there. And with a neighbor that
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: people already think has peculiar odd behavior. The minute a
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: murder occurs of Mandy Stavic, he suddenly gets married and
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: moves away immediately. And I don't know about you guys,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: but to ask you, willcott they had a wedding already
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: planned to happen in the future, and then something goes Yeah,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: forget that, let's get married right now. I move. That
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: would concern me, Yeah, absolutely, And you know what, I
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: always say this, especially about women's truster cut and your instinct,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: and so it would concern me as well. And why
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: aren't you going to marry the devil on himself? Yeah?
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: I agree, But I find it a big red flag
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: that they suddenly get married and move away. Now this
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: is even more of a red flag. Gina and Tim
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: in their home, they asked Tim to give a DNA sample.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: I thought Tim would give us his DNA or he wouldn't.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: But if you don't ask you, you don't know. And
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: they said that they were there to collect a DNA
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: that they had already collected from a lot of people
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: in the area. She said that she was expecting Tim
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: home within a few minutes. They asked him about Mandy's
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Staffick and he said, oh, and he looked up at
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: the celey and like he couldn't remember that name. That
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: was definitely a red flag for me, which indicated to
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: me he's obviously lying. You don't grew up in that area.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Everybody knew what the Mani Stavit case was, and she
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: ran past his house every day. How would you not
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: know it? And he said, oh, that was that the
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: girl that was missing? And he said, they said yes
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: it was, and he said, oh, you know, I remember
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: she was found in the river. Like it was sort
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: of for a revelation that he had brought that back
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: to his mind. You know, it was exactly who many
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Stava list, but he was playing it off like he didn't.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Tim said he wasn't going to give us a DNA
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: that he didn't trust the police, which was another red flag,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: and by then we were out of flags. Well, won't
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: give a DNA sample and then pretends he doesn't know
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: the neighbor that ran by his house every single day. Now,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: those are some red flags in my mind, what about it, Ashley?
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Red flaques? Forget about red flagux To me, it indicates Listen,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: he knew he was complicit. He has more information than
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: they know at this point in time. You know, I
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: just not giving DNA, pretending you don't know a neighbor.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Then we have the problem. He refuses to get DNA,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: and under the law at this point they don't have
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: enough evidence to get a warrant on Tim Bass. They
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: can't force him to give his DNA, so they're kind
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: of stuck until this. If something happened to my daughter,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I'd want someone to help me. And I the thought
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: of her mom never having an answer of who did
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: that to her daughter? If I could help her find
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: that piece, I wanted to do it. She watched Tim
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: they got a water cooler at their office, and he
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: drank out of a plastic cup and threw it away.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: He threw it in the garbage in front of me,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: walked past into the bathroom, and I just I looked
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: in the garbage and my heart was like, m you know,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: beating out of my test and I grabbed it and
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I put it in my desk flour. I think I
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: waited a little bit and then I texted Detective Bowie.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: I couldn't get it back to the office quick enough
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: and down to the lab quick enough to have it tested. Wow,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: you're hearing co workers of this guy, Tim Bass speaking
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: to ABC twenty twenty to Joanna Small, reporter k I
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: r O seven TV, who is this person, Kim a
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Wagoner and why does she feel she had to get
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Tim Bass's DNA surreptitiously secretly? Him was another person in
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: the community who felt a connection to Mandy. She didn't
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: know Mandy personally, but like I said, everyone in the
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: community felt some kind of connection to this girl or
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: to her family and to her story. And Kim also
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: has a daughter, and so she felt incredibly motivated to
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: help the police in any way she could. This case
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: haunted the people in Wacom County for years, you know,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: nearly thirty years at that point. This isn't twenty seventeen,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: and it was it was devastating. And Kim with someone
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: who still thought about it every day, and so when
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: she saw the opportunity to do something positive that could
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: potentially end this and she mentioned this several times to me,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: but in this torture for Mandy's family, she didn't hesitate.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: She wanted to do it immediately, which is actually very
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: brief and isn't it true? Joanna Small KI r O
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: seven TV that detectives have been following Bass around, but
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: they couldn't get his DNA. They've been following him. I mean,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: we have heard of DNA being obtained off a piece
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: of pizza, believe it or not. In a mansion murder
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: trial up in the DC area, the whole family is
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: murdered by a guy who comes to the door pretending
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: to deliver pizza. Inside the scene, they find half eatn
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: pizza and they take DNA off the pizza crust and
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: they catch the killer. So isn't it true, Joanna Small?
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: They've been following Tim Bass around and all they've got
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: so far at this point is he's a neighbor. He
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: refuses to give a DNA sample. Others think he has
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: very odd and peculiar behavior and claims he didn't know Mandy,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: which obviously he does, so they start following him. That's
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: totally legal they had. Isn't it true he would take
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: out his trash and get rid of it. I mean,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: they couldn't catch him in anything, Joanna Kim was a
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: fairly He kind of did the same thing every day. Therefore,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: you know, he wasn't stopping at restaurants, he wasn't really
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: deviating from his routine. It was mostly work and home,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: and they didn't have access to his work vehicle or
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: he spent the majority of his time, and so absolutely yeah,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: they were following him around. They were attempting to catch
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: him in I don't know, I would call it like
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: a slip, something different, and to no avail, that really
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: wasn't happened. And to make it even more difficult, we
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: learned that he would pack up his trash in burnet.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: He never left DNA out like on a soda bottle
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: or a plastic fourt. It just didn't happen. To George
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Skiro joining me, DNA expert with Scales Biological Laboratory. George,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: how do you get DNA off, for instance, a plastic cup, Well,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: you get some dnafp plastic cup. It's relatively simple. You
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: just take a swab, a sterile swab, cotton swab just
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: like a Q tip, moisten it with some distilled water,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: swab the area of the mouth area. Take that, let
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: it air dry, package it and send it away to
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: be analyzed. It's that simple, that simple. You know, we
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: hear of stories like this, but in this case it's true.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: A coworker decides to help out, doesn't really even know
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Mandy Stavoc and she gets the DNA and then this
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: I'm BILOFO, the Wackcom County Sheriff. I'm November twenty fourth,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, at one fifty pm, eighteen year old
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Amanda Stavic, also known as Mandy, left home on the
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Strand Road out in the Acme Valley to go jogging
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: with the family dog. The dog returned home several hours later,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: but Mandy did not. Following an exhaustive search, Mandy's body
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: was found in the South Fork of the Nooksack River.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: The investigation into kidnapping, rape, and murder of Mandy Stavic
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: has remained a top priority for the Wacom County Sheriff's office.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Over the course of the last twenty eight plus years,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: hundreds of leads emerged and were systematically investigated. Among the
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: potential suspects that emerged in recent years was Timothy Forrest Bass.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Deputies forward DNA samples from mister Bass to the Washington
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: State Crime Laboratory, who reported to us that as DNA
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: matched the DNA recovered from Mandy's body in nineteen eighty nine,
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Bass was arrested by the Sheriff's office to active on
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: December twelfth. Yesterday, I'm suspicion of first degree murder, first
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: degree kidnapping, and first degree rate. You are hearing what
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: can County share? Bill Elfo announced first degree kidnapping, murder,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: and rate charges on Tim Bass. But isn't it true,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Joetta Small? He claimed they had a consensual sex relationship. Yeah,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: that was the basis entirely for Tim For how Tim
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: try to explain things which was unbelievable to everyone who
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: knew Tim and Mandy. How did prosecutors disprove that? Well,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: it was very much a character analysis. Every single person
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: that they put on the stand who was speaking on
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: behalf of the prosecution, Mandy's friends and family or asked
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: the question, did Mandy and Tim ever interact? And every
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: single person said no. And Timothy Bass himself never took
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: the stand to answer for that, and so there was
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: no one to speak to the fact that he could
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: have possibly had a consensual sexual relationship with Mandy Savic.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: And they did put his brother on the stand, which
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: really worked in the favor of the prosecution, because even
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: his own brother found it unbelievable that this ever would
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: have occurred. And he recalled a conversation that he had
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: had with Tim about that secret, like that secret consensual
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: sexual relationship, where Kim had mentioned to him that he
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: was concerned because police were going to find his DNA
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: in Mandy, and that was right after he had refused
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: to give his DNA sample. He told his brother that
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: he was concerned because he admitted he had had sex
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: with Mandy and they had been keeping their relationship with secret,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: and it had happened over the Thanksgiving break, which would
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: explain why his DNA was found in her. So that's
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: quite the coincidence that he suddenly reveals a quote sex
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: relationship with this team girl right after she goes missing, okay,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: and then just a character analysis that you are describing,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: plus no evidence of any interaction between these two, no dates,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: nothing like that. In fact, he claimed he didn't even
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: know her. Also, she had a boyfriend and he had
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: a fiancee. Isn't that right, Joanna? Yeah, they were both
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: in relationships. Rick Sender was kind of an again, off
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: again boyfriend, but they both went to Central Washington University
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: and they had reconnected. They were high school sweethearts, and
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: he's actually the person who drove her home for Thanksgiving,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: and so they not only planned to continue seeing each
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: other at school in Ellensburg, but they were going to
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: spend time together over Thanksgiving break. He was close with
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: her family, and so it would have been extremely out
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: of character her out of character for her to be
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: interacting with a man, a neighbor who she'd never had
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: any contact with in high school or any contact with
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: even in the first few months of college. They didn't
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: go to school together, Mandy had only come home a
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: few times, and so there was absolutely nothing that connected
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: the two of them. The case goes to trial and
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: then this we the jury find the defendant, Timothy Forrest Best,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: guilty of the crime of murder in the first degree
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: as charged in count one. You know, I'm very curious
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: to Joanna Small with k I R O seven TV.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: The sentence was three hundred and twenty months. That's almost
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: twenty seven years. Why not, luck there was not an
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: aggravated count of murder in this particular case. There wasn't
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: a murder weapon identified as someone else from the panel
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: had mentioned she had a deep bruise on the top
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: of her head. And they said the birdie in the autopsy,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: the corner had said the bruise could have potentially caused unconsciousness,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: But there was never any kind of of weapon identified,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: so it wasn't an aggravated murder charge. And ironically, or
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: maybe sadly, he will send less time in prison than
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: the number of years it took to find him as
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: the killer. Wait a minute, are you telling me that
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: the fact that she was raped does not aggravate the murder.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: They actually, because of they couldn't technically charge him with
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: rape the statute of limitations, so they had officially dropped
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: that charge, and he was found guilty of first degree murder,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: so he was not convicted on rape. He was not
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: convicted on rape, but as everybody described the crime, and
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: even from the prosecutor's office, it was considered a rape
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: and murder, but he wasn't convicted on a separate rape charge.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: So because they couldn't identify a weapon and they rape
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: statutorially could not be prosecuted because of the statute of limitations,
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: it was a flat out murder, not an aggravated murder,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: and therefore he did not get a lot if he
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: got three hundred and twenty months about twenty seventy years.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: There's an aggravated murder statute in the state of Washington,
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: and that elevates things, and so it was I don't
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: want to say it was disappointing because they knew, the
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: family knew going into this about the maximum sense he
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: could receive, so they were prepared. And so the case
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: went unsolved as long as the sentence and he is
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: set to walk free potentially in twenty thirty six. That's
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: just in sixteen years. Question, Joanna Small, how did Tim
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: Bass hide in playing side all these years? So well?
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Tim immediately left the community. As you mentioned, he got
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: married to his fiance who was only eighteen. She was
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: only eighteen years old at the time. It was a
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: rushed marriage and they just left. And Tim was a
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: very routine person. He at a mundane job. He didn't
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: have a lot of hobbies, he didn't socialize. He kept
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: entirely to himself. His mother lived with he and Geena Malone,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: who was his ex wife now for quite some time.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: And Tim didn't raise any suspicions because he was just private.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: And maybe if he had stuck around Strand Road, but
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: apparently he knew better than that and left immediately. How
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: well was he at the time in the murder. He
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: was twenty one, so he was three years older than Mandy,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: and he was three years ahead of her in school,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: which is why he had initially claimed Pete. He didn't
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: remember her, didn't know her. Justice delayed, but not denied.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crimes Toyes signing off goodbye friend,