Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK Book Reviews - Sherlock Holmes In Dallas

Transcript

JFK Book Reviews - Sherlock Holmes In Dallas · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:02
Speaker 1: What's up, everybody, And welcome to JFK Book Reviews, a
0:05
Speaker 1: division of the Lone.
0:06
Speaker 2: Gum and podcast.
0:08
Speaker 1: I'm Big Bad Bob Rob Clark along with me as
0:11
Speaker 1: per the usual, mister Joe.
0:12
Speaker 2: BURRELLI Hello Sar, Hello Joe, and today we're going to
0:18
Speaker 2: be reviewing the book.
0:21
Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes in Dallas by Edmund Aubrey. And this is
0:26
Speaker 1: not too terribly long, Joe, but it is pretty. It's
0:30
Speaker 1: nice and shiny and pretty for a forty five year
0:32
Speaker 1: old book.
0:33
Speaker 2: It's in good shape. I got a good copy.
0:36
Speaker 3: You definitely do, you definitely do.
0:39
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit a bit more about mister
0:42
Speaker 1: Aubrey if you will please.
0:45
Speaker 3: Sure well, well, first of this book was first published
0:47
Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty by Dodd Mead and Company. And it
0:52
Speaker 3: is Sherlock Holmes Pastiche, which I had to look up.
0:58
Speaker 3: Is an artistic work in the style that imitates that
1:01
Speaker 3: of another work, artist, or period. And I believe the
1:04
Speaker 3: first Sherlock Holmes story was published in eighteen eighty seven.
1:12
Speaker 3: But mister Edmund Aubrey is a pen name. His real
1:19
Speaker 3: name is Edmund Irons and he is a British political scientist.
1:26
Speaker 3: Mentioned he wrote this book in nineteen eighty eight, and
1:29
Speaker 3: it reimagines the infamous nineteen sixty three assassination of President
1:35
Speaker 3: John F.
1:35
Speaker 2: Kennedy.
1:37
Speaker 3: And it is fiction, but does draw from some Warren
1:43
Speaker 3: Commission reports and some Senate and House Committee hearings, and
1:47
Speaker 3: some documents and eyewitness accounts. Of course, Sherlock Holmes. It
1:54
Speaker 3: was a fictional detective created by British author Arthur Conan Doyle, Sir.
2:00
Speaker 2: Arthur Doyle Sir was united. He was nice by Queen
2:06
Speaker 2: Elizabeth ooh nice.
2:14
Speaker 3: There is a lot of them, but Holmes is known
2:18
Speaker 3: for his proficiency with observation, forensic science, and logical reasoning.
2:25
Speaker 3: And him and his fictional friend, doctor Holmes I believe
2:31
Speaker 3: his name, travel to Dallas or doctor Watson. Doctor Watson,
2:35
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Doctor Holmes, yeah, doctor Watson, yes, And they
2:42
Speaker 3: travel to Dallas, New Orleans, and New York to try
2:47
Speaker 3: to figure out what happened in the Kennedy assassination and
2:53
Speaker 3: the background of mister Edmund s. Ion's British academic political
3:00
Speaker 3: scientists specialized in American history, built his career in higher education,
3:07
Speaker 3: focusing on transatlantic relations, US presidential leadership and twentieth century diplomacy,
3:16
Speaker 3: so his other books, and he later was a teacher
3:20
Speaker 3: lecturer at a bunch of universities across the pond. There
3:25
Speaker 3: he did write three books, the first one in nineteen
3:28
Speaker 3: sixty seven, The Politics of John F. Kennedy under his
3:31
Speaker 3: real name, nonfiction, Woodrow Wilson, The Politics of Peace and
3:37
Speaker 3: War nineteen seventy one nonfiction as well, published under his
3:42
Speaker 3: real name, and in nineteen eighty, of course, right after
3:45
Speaker 3: the Heels a year later, after the HSCA report in
3:51
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy nine came out published this fiction book and
3:58
Speaker 3: it was then reprinted in nineteen eighty three. Rob And
4:02
Speaker 3: I think maybe this was reprinted in America because the
4:07
Speaker 3: title changed and that was to the case of the
4:11
Speaker 3: murdered president in later editions. But you can get this
4:17
Speaker 3: book for a pretty good price, Rob, I'd go to
4:20
Speaker 3: Abe Books. Abe Books Use books. You can get some conditions,
4:27
Speaker 3: some initial first editions for about five.
4:32
Speaker 2: Bucks with four dollars shipping.
4:34
Speaker 3: But if you go to Amazon, you're going to pay
4:38
Speaker 3: close to forty dollars for used and up.
4:41
Speaker 2: To one hundred dollars for new.
4:43
Speaker 3: And I definitely say go to a books, right And
4:49
Speaker 3: I definitely say this book also has a conspiracy lean
4:53
Speaker 3: to it, as I don't think he was alive ever
4:57
Speaker 3: or definitely not nineteen sixty three or after.
5:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, or contact me. I'll sell you this copy for
5:03
Speaker 1: fifty bucks. I'll even sign it for you. You get
5:08
Speaker 1: a big bad Bob's copy Sherlock Holmes in Dallas Mere
5:11
Speaker 1: fifty dollars. All right, Joey, let's get into this book
5:16
Speaker 1: a little bit. You know, I've always been enamored, if
5:25
Speaker 1: you will, with historical faction, as I call it, basically
5:32
Speaker 1: fiction based history that involves real aspects of real people,
5:39
Speaker 1: real times, real events, but in a fictionalized version where
5:47
Speaker 1: it allows you, or it allows one or whoever is
5:50
Speaker 1: writing the book to get across your ideas without having
5:56
Speaker 1: to necessarily prove them one way or the other. You know, like,
6:01
Speaker 1: if you have a bend on on how you think
6:04
Speaker 1: the assassination went down, but you can't prove it, but
6:09
Speaker 1: it's a good story if it were true, right, then
6:12
Speaker 1: write a fiction.
6:13
Speaker 2: Book about it, you know.
6:15
Speaker 1: I me, being the budding author that I am, Joe
6:19
Speaker 1: I did I have started a faction fictional faction novel
6:26
Speaker 1: based on the Kennedy assassination that maybe someday will get
6:29
Speaker 1: published if I'm lucky.
6:31
Speaker 2: Yes, I was lucky.
6:33
Speaker 3: You gave me a sneak peek while.
6:34
Speaker 2: Ago, possibly posthumously. You never know.
6:41
Speaker 1: It will be my greatest unfinished work ever.
6:44
Speaker 2: I'll finish it for you, buddy.
6:45
Speaker 1: Well thanks, But back to this book, you know, the
6:53
Speaker 1: whole Sherlock Holmes thing. It's an interesting idea because I'm
7:02
Speaker 1: intrigued and I do enjoy reading Sherlock Holmes novels because
7:10
Speaker 1: they kind of make you think about things in a
7:14
Speaker 1: way that you probably never have before. Joe, you know,
7:17
Speaker 1: like when it comes to trying to figure out the
7:20
Speaker 1: truth about things. You know, all of Sherlock Holmes books
7:25
Speaker 1: and this one is no different is kind of written
7:30
Speaker 1: from the perspective of Watson, his buddy, right, and.
7:36
Speaker 2: The way.
7:38
Speaker 1: They tell the story through Watson as he observes how
7:43
Speaker 1: Holmes goes about things, and the various thought experiments that
7:49
Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes takes doctor Watson through in order to enlighten
7:56
Speaker 1: him about how he has deduced something. And of course
8:02
Speaker 1: when it comes to Sherlock Holmes, you know, he has
8:05
Speaker 1: a very astute eye, you know, like for instance, in
8:08
Speaker 1: this book, when they're flying from England to America. He
8:18
Speaker 1: shakes the steward's hand, Joe, and he asked He asked
8:21
Speaker 1: her how the fishing is in Minnesota. Never met her before,
8:27
Speaker 1: never talked to her before, simply shook her hand and
8:30
Speaker 1: then asked her how the fishing in Minnesota was right,
8:35
Speaker 1: And she's like, well, how do.
8:37
Speaker 2: You know that?
8:39
Speaker 1: How do you know I enjoy fishing in Minnesota. So
8:42
Speaker 1: then he breaks it down for the steward and says
8:45
Speaker 1: he's getting off the plane. He says, well, as I
8:47
Speaker 1: was shaking your hand, I noticed your hand is a
8:49
Speaker 1: little bit callous right here. And there's marks on your
8:51
Speaker 1: fingernails indicate some kind that you're into some kind of sewing,
8:56
Speaker 1: because that's kind of marks they leave. But you're way
8:59
Speaker 1: too young for the for to be sewing at home,
9:01
Speaker 1: and you know you're you're a steward issue. You travel everywhere,
9:04
Speaker 1: so more than likely there's marks on your fingernails are
9:09
Speaker 1: made from baiting hooks, you know, and and and taking
9:12
Speaker 1: hooks out of fish's mouse, and you know, the way
9:15
Speaker 1: that you cast or you hold your pole, it'll callous
9:17
Speaker 1: your hand like right here. And she's like, okay, but
9:21
Speaker 1: how did you know I'm from Minnesota. He's like, well,
9:24
Speaker 1: you know a lot of people with Norwegian descent settled
9:27
Speaker 1: in Minnesota. You know, I noticed that, you know, your
9:31
Speaker 1: blue eyes have this tint that only people from Norway have.
9:34
Speaker 1: And you know, he's like, I'm sorry to say, you know.
9:37
Speaker 1: Of course he says it in a nice way, but
9:38
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sorry to say, you know, I kind
9:40
Speaker 1: of noticed that your your blonde, natural blonde hair has
9:44
Speaker 1: been taken care of by a bottle of beauty product.
9:48
Speaker 2: And he says.
9:49
Speaker 1: She kind of blushed and says, yes, I'm a bottle brunette.
9:53
Speaker 1: She's like, I probably need we need to do my roots.
9:55
Speaker 1: He's like, and so, you know, he kind of deduces
9:59
Speaker 1: all this just from shaking her hand, you know, kind
10:01
Speaker 1: of blows her mind, and you know she probably gets
10:03
Speaker 1: all hot and bothered by.
10:04
Speaker 2: You know, Sherlock Holmes.
10:06
Speaker 1: But the timeline in the book is weird, Joe, because,
10:14
Speaker 1: as you stated, Sherlock Holmes wasn't in any fictional books
10:19
Speaker 1: until eighteen eighty seven, Right, So from eighteeneen eighty seven
10:27
Speaker 1: to nineteen sixty three is at least eighty six years, Okay,
10:34
Speaker 1: and add another seventeen to nineteen eighty when he's contemporaneously
10:41
Speaker 1: writing this book. That would make Sherlock Holmes one hundred
10:46
Speaker 1: and ten years old in this book if you're if
10:50
Speaker 1: you're following the math here.
10:52
Speaker 3: And probably a probably added another twenty to when he
10:56
Speaker 3: was first written about, right, because he wasn't one years old.
11:00
Speaker 1: Well, no, it says he was born Joe. And if
11:04
Speaker 1: you go back to a piece called His Last Bow,
11:13
Speaker 1: the story set in nineteen fourteen nineteen fourteen describes him
11:17
Speaker 1: as being sixty years old in nineteen fourteen. Oh, and
11:21
Speaker 1: his year of birth would be eighteen fifty three or
11:24
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty.
11:24
Speaker 2: Four, right, Yeah, here in matthis.
11:28
Speaker 1: If he was sixty in nineteen fourteen, add fifty to it. So, yeah,
11:33
Speaker 1: he'd been about one hundred and ten years old.
11:35
Speaker 3: Yes, and the time of Yes, and I believe he
11:38
Speaker 3: came out of retirement to solve this case.
11:42
Speaker 1: Yes, but interestingly enough that you mention that you know,
11:48
Speaker 1: As Watston describes hooking back up with Holmes, he says,
11:54
Speaker 1: you know, he's in retirement, and he's he lives with
11:58
Speaker 1: his housekeeper, and he knows better than to go showing
12:02
Speaker 1: up unexpected at Sherlock Holmes's house, of course, but he
12:06
Speaker 1: runs into him in a in a in a bath
12:08
Speaker 1: house in London, in the.
12:10
Speaker 4: Steam room, he says, I, you know, I fancied myself
12:17
Speaker 4: a steam bath, and uh, in there I noticed across
12:20
Speaker 4: from me on the marble slab a tall, gaunt figure,
12:23
Speaker 4: a bloke.
12:27
Speaker 2: This is well, hello, doctor Watson. How have you been sir?
12:31
Speaker 2: You know.
12:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a little bit of a weird beginning,
12:36
Speaker 1: you know, as to how they meet each other again.
12:38
Speaker 1: But apparently, uh, Sherlock's Holmes, Sherlock's Holmes, Sherlock Holmes has
12:44
Speaker 1: been invited by a mysterious cabal in Washington, d C.
12:50
Speaker 1: Joe to come reinvestigate the case and see what he
12:57
Speaker 1: can come up with. And of course there's no expectations
13:01
Speaker 1: with this, they're tied to it, he says, And he
13:05
Speaker 1: doesn't have to report to a governing official, governing body.
13:10
Speaker 1: There's nothing officially legal or judicial.
13:12
Speaker 2: Going to be done with this.
13:13
Speaker 1: But this mysterious cabal just wants him, in his unique perspective,
13:19
Speaker 1: to see what he can offer, right, right, which is
13:24
Speaker 1: kind of a weird premise as well. But okay, and
13:28
Speaker 1: as you mentioned in the in the in the preview,
13:32
Speaker 1: they come to America first day, stop in I believe
13:38
Speaker 1: it's DC, and Sherlock Holmes spends a little time at
13:42
Speaker 1: the archives at Poor Bastard. You see Charlock Holmes in
13:47
Speaker 1: the in the archives, and then Malcolm blocked there immediately.
13:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, god, damn it, this is.
14:13
Speaker 3: You just came back.
14:14
Speaker 2: Okay, sorry, I'll edit that ad. We ain't starting over.
14:24
Speaker 1: So just just an example, Joe, if if you, if
14:28
Speaker 1: you will indulge me, sir, of course as to.
14:34
Speaker 2: How this book kind of sounds.
14:37
Speaker 5: Okay, he says, let's see, that's a different one.
14:55
Speaker 2: So this is interesting.
14:56
Speaker 1: So, like I said, they went to DCS at their archives,
14:59
Speaker 1: and they go to the and they go to New Orleans,
15:03
Speaker 1: and they do talk about a lot of factual things
15:09
Speaker 1: in this book. People's real names, real people in a
15:15
Speaker 1: fictionalized setting.
15:18
Speaker 2: So they are going.
15:20
Speaker 1: Through Oswald's FBI interactions in New Orleans and they're talking
15:27
Speaker 1: about him possibly being an undercover FBI in format.
15:33
Speaker 2: Okay, So.
15:38
Speaker 1: They start talking about a mister Milton Cock and a
15:42
Speaker 1: searching mister Warren Debries who appear behind the testimony. You
15:46
Speaker 1: have several witnesses in New Orleans, in Dallas as early
15:50
Speaker 1: as nineteen sixty two and right through the summer of
15:52
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three. Their primary duties were clearly to trace,
15:57
Speaker 1: perhaps to infiltrate, the extreamist organizations in this city. Several
16:03
Speaker 1: witnesses testified to the Commission that Debris was often seeking
16:07
Speaker 1: information from them. A mister Carlos Brignier, the Emigree lawyer,
16:14
Speaker 1: asserted that mister Warren Debris was familiar to many of
16:17
Speaker 1: the Cuman emigres in New Orleans, a testimony confirmed by
16:22
Speaker 1: the witness mister ors Pana and his brother mister Ruperto Pagna.
16:27
Speaker 1: We passed the location of the Habana Bar owned by
16:31
Speaker 1: these gentlemen in nineteen sixty three as we made our
16:33
Speaker 1: way along to Cater Street today beyond the waterfront. We
16:38
Speaker 1: may believe these various witnesses when they testify to frequent
16:41
Speaker 1: visits by mister Warren Debris. The Paynia brothers were clearly
16:45
Speaker 1: anxious to cooperate with the FBI and served as informants.
16:50
Speaker 1: As you may imagine, mister Watson, owners of bars often
16:53
Speaker 1: make valuable informants because of the number of people that
16:57
Speaker 1: they see come and go. There is what it's called
17:00
Speaker 1: a trade off for the owners of bars, the authorities
17:03
Speaker 1: can choose to treat them lightly, even look the other
17:07
Speaker 1: way in some instances, in the matter of minded disturbances
17:11
Speaker 1: on the premises, if customers become obstrares.
17:17
Speaker 2: Say that twenty times fast obstaporius.
17:22
Speaker 3: He uses words.
17:24
Speaker 1: Yeah or the worst for drink, which is another way
17:30
Speaker 1: of saying drunk.
17:32
Speaker 2: Uh.
17:32
Speaker 1: Bar owners and bartenders also provide bridges to the fringes
17:37
Speaker 1: of the underworld where the police and FBI gain their
17:40
Speaker 1: tip offs without actually having to go there. So again
17:47
Speaker 1: astute of observations Easter Sherlock Holmes.
17:52
Speaker 2: You know, when it comes to.
17:55
Speaker 1: Why bar owners, why why we should listen to them,
17:58
Speaker 1: because you know, people coming to bars, they start drinking,
18:01
Speaker 1: they get loose lips, right, all kinds of invention.
18:06
Speaker 2: For sure. People meet at.
18:08
Speaker 1: Bars, so you know you might be like, well, I
18:11
Speaker 1: saw this person in this person meeting in the bar,
18:14
Speaker 1: and you know I never thought about that before. Joe
18:16
Speaker 1: that you know, if Orris Paine is an informant to
18:19
Speaker 1: debris that they might get a little uh, you know,
18:22
Speaker 1: leniency when it comes to their operations, right, which is
18:29
Speaker 1: probably true. I mean, look no further than Jack Ruby,
18:32
Speaker 1: you know, rubbing up the Dallas police, you know, so
18:35
Speaker 1: they stay off his ass about you know, staying open
18:38
Speaker 1: late or whatever is going on.
18:40
Speaker 2: In this club. You know. Yeah, it's a good point.
18:46
Speaker 1: But and Joe, I was telling you this might be
18:50
Speaker 1: the first in nineteen eighty fictionalized version of the perspective
18:58
Speaker 1: of a conspiracy lean book towards the assassination. I don't
19:05
Speaker 1: know one hundred percent for sure if that's true. But
19:10
Speaker 1: of course there were fictionalized movies that came out after
19:15
Speaker 1: the assassination earlier than this book. But book wise, this
19:20
Speaker 1: may be the first historical faction book written about the case.
19:27
Speaker 1: And I'm sure our Stuke commenters will fix me on
19:32
Speaker 1: that if I'm wrong, But I don't know if I'm
19:34
Speaker 1: mistaken or not. But anyway, that being said, Joe, what
19:39
Speaker 1: were your thoughts in ratings?
19:40
Speaker 3: Sure? So, you know, as always when we do our ratings,
19:45
Speaker 3: I always think what did the author hope to accomplish?
19:49
Speaker 3: And did he accomplish that? And I think for being
19:53
Speaker 3: fictional and being maybe leaning towards the murder mystery, but
19:58
Speaker 3: still intertwined a lot of you know truth, like you know,
20:05
Speaker 3: debris and the Havana Barr and Orris Panya. If it
20:10
Speaker 3: gets some people that might not have been interested in
20:13
Speaker 3: the assassination into it via the Sherlock Holmes thing, that's
20:19
Speaker 3: cool with me. That being said, it is fictional, so
20:24
Speaker 3: I did give a good amount of thought to this,
20:27
Speaker 3: and I think i'm you know, if you can get
20:29
Speaker 3: it for ten bucks man, which you can on aid books.
20:34
Speaker 3: I I think it's a fun read, especially if you
20:39
Speaker 3: are document nerds and you know you you don't want
20:44
Speaker 3: to be bored. It's it's entertaining. So I think I'm
20:47
Speaker 3: gonna give it a very solid six guns up, mister.
20:52
Speaker 2: Rob Okay, Yeah, I agreed, Joe.
20:59
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes when you know this is a subject
21:04
Speaker 1: that interests us and you if you're watching them, of course,
21:10
Speaker 1: but sometimes you know, when you when you when you're
21:12
Speaker 1: reading a lot of these non fiction books about the
21:15
Speaker 1: case over and over and back to back, it can
21:20
Speaker 1: get a little tedious, you know.
21:21
Speaker 2: On your brain.
21:23
Speaker 1: So I think things like this is a fun little
21:27
Speaker 1: escape while you're still immersed in the world of the
21:32
Speaker 1: Kennedy assassination. It allows you not to have to really
21:38
Speaker 1: think about things so much.
21:40
Speaker 2: You can just enjoy the story, you know, right.
21:42
Speaker 3: Or be like super critical over every sentence.
21:46
Speaker 1: Right, you know, this is not one of those books
21:49
Speaker 1: where every every sentence is footnoted. And from the passage
21:53
Speaker 1: I read you you know you can imagine. You know,
21:56
Speaker 1: this is not a half assed effort, is what I'm
21:58
Speaker 1: trying to say. The author actually did spend a lot
22:03
Speaker 1: of time at the archives researching things, because again, this
22:07
Speaker 1: book was written in the late seventies, published in nineteen eighty.
22:12
Speaker 1: So in the end notes he kind of acknowledges that
22:16
Speaker 1: and thanks the staff of NARA for helping him. He
22:21
Speaker 1: said he went there and watched his appruder film and
22:23
Speaker 1: got documents and things like that. So this was not
22:28
Speaker 1: a half assed effort by some guy who just is
22:31
Speaker 1: sitting in England, you know, writing down stuff. He made
22:34
Speaker 1: a trip, he made several trips to the United States,
22:37
Speaker 1: did boots on the ground research, obviously, did his homework,
22:43
Speaker 1: and this book is an effort that reflects that. So again, Joe,
22:49
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed the book. I thought it was It's
22:52
Speaker 1: definitely different. I love the perspective from Sherlock Holmes. Although
22:59
Speaker 1: this guy no Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, that's for sure,
23:03
Speaker 1: but it would be interesting two kind of see how
23:10
Speaker 1: Sir Arthur and Arthur Conan Doyle would have approached this subject.
23:16
Speaker 1: And of course it's written in the same style as
23:19
Speaker 1: Joe says. It's a pastiche, an homage if you will,
23:23
Speaker 1: to the to the original way that things are done.
23:27
Speaker 1: And this book follows the mold for sure of Sherlock
23:31
Speaker 1: Holmes and those murder mysteries, the classics. So this is
23:38
Speaker 1: very cool, you know, to enjoy Sherlock Holmes and enjoy uh,
23:43
Speaker 1: you know, a story that is based in in fact,
23:47
Speaker 1: written in fiction, and it kind of holds your attention
23:52
Speaker 1: because it's a subject that you're interested in. So very
23:55
Speaker 1: cool overall, Joe, I'm going to give this book a
24:00
Speaker 1: solid for what it is and they ever put in.
24:05
Speaker 2: I'm gonna give this book.
24:05
Speaker 1: A solid eight guns up.
24:12
Speaker 2: Very nice. I like it, Yes, yes, yeah.
24:16
Speaker 3: It's definitely fun to escape from the tediousness once in
24:20
Speaker 3: a while.
24:20
Speaker 2: Yes.
24:22
Speaker 1: And if you like it like Joe, and you like
24:24
Speaker 1: this book review, you're gonna love our podcast that we
24:26
Speaker 1: do every Friday night live right here on YouTube. It
24:30
Speaker 1: is the Lune gum And Podcast. We talk about all
24:33
Speaker 1: different aspects of the Kennedy assassination from a factional point
24:38
Speaker 1: of view.
24:40
Speaker 2: Not a fictional one, very.
24:41
Speaker 1: Important, so check us out, you won't regret it, and
24:47
Speaker 1: we'll see you over there. Thanks for watching, and tune
24:50
Speaker 1: in for the next book review here in a week
24:52
Speaker 1: or so.
24:53
Speaker 3: Thank you guys.
24:55
Speaker 2: Peace,