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Tantra Is Not About Sex: A Gay Man's Journey from Anger to Love · The Wisdom Trust Podcast for Gay Men 50+

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Wisdom Trust.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Lauren Crawford.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is for gay men over 50 who sense there's more to this stage of life than we've been taught.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: More connection, meaning, honesty, and possibility.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Each episode is a conversation with a thoughtful gay man who's navigating the deeper questions that often emerge in the second half of life.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Aging, identity, purpose, belonging, reinvention, community, love, and living consciously.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: These are not conversations about decline, they are conversations about becoming.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you're here.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to another episode of The Wisdom Trust.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm here today with Armin Hannig, and we're going to be talking about his amazing experiences, and they are pretty fabulous.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Before we do that, just a reminder that we're here not as celebrities, not as experts in anything.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: We're here as gay men talking about our journeys.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: We're here to inspire, to uplift.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: To have sharing of stories, it really helps us to think about how we can transform, how we can live at this stage in our lives when we're experiencing these wisdom years.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So let me tell you a little bit about Armin and his illustrious, amazing journey.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it began as a spiritual journey in Bavarian Benedictine Monastery in Germany, where he discovered a world of deep meditation.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that was through Christian contemplation and zazen.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Through Tantra, he found a bridge between spirituality and sexuality, and in 1992 found a gay Tantra.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: For more than 30 years, he's been exploring with many parts of the world how this connection between body, sexuality, love, and consciousness is interwoven.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: There was a personal crisis that he experienced in 2013 to 2015 that forced him to rethink everything.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: And today his life is about returning again to this essence of the heart and relaxing there.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Looking back, he sees these phases are all part of the singular journey that is this life, the embodiment of truth and love.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's very beautiful.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I would love for you to continue on.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little bit more about all of this.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Who is Armin?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: What is this thing that makes you tick?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Armin, and I discovered myself as a spiritual being making a journey in this world.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: This started already when I was 16.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I was on a fur on very much longing for God, and this brought me into a Benedictine monastery.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: But my longing was much more than it was on offer there.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: I studied and sen meditation, which was not in agreement with my monastic community.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And later on, we agreed that Armin Frey Christoph will leave the monastery to go his path.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then he Armin and I, Armin discovered Tantra, and of course, there was he didn't want to be gay at that point of his life, and so he did a straight tantra training, but then had his big gay coming out during that training, which made him then being the founder of gay tantra because there was nothing at that time, nearly nothing offered on that.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I started with gay tantra, and that is my journey since 1992, and also business business-wise and my job-wise, it's a wonderful path, which but which also after what was 2023, after 20 years or something like that, not really 20 years, brought me in a certain how do you call that boring situation after having success asking what's next and what's next, which brought me then in 2030 to 2013 to sex on camps and sex on crystal math, which was on the beginning very, very good.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: But then in 2015, when I was 55, I had wake-up experiences, and with this wake-up experience, I mean there's something wrong in your life.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I came out of that through learning to forgive, to forgive myself, forgive parents, etc.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: etc.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us about you got involved in your gay tantra, and then if I understand correctly, that led to a bit of a sex addiction and drug, drug use or overuse.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what you were saying?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, in my private life, yes.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: How are you able to navigate that?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, in the retro perspective, I was able to navigate as I have my body has already a remembering of enlightenment and being really in peace, which I was in 2015 not.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: This was a first wake-up call, it was in March or something, 2013, and on the 1st of April, I received an email from the Lesbian and Gay Association of Germany, and they shared that Angela Merkel has changed her mind about same-sex marriage.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: You must know we have same-sex marriage now till 2018 or 2019.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: In 2015, Germany has not been so far.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So in the first of April, I received this email.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Angela Merkel has traveled through so many countries: Sweden, Finland, Spain, and all the governments said to Angela Merkel, so Angela, we have the same-sex marriage here in our countries.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the same-sex people do not destroy our desire society.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they do not harm that.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you go in gut always with your gut feeling.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: You say you have a bad gut feeling about that.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: What is that gut feeling?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us more about that.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the email told further, okay.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So Angela Merkel turned inside and asked her what is that gut feeling, and saw this a little bit more rational and said, Yeah, so it's not good, she said to herself, it's not good to go with just a gut feeling.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I'm really, I really asked the community for forgiveness that she always was just with a gut feeling going and not serious thinking about that.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: And she apologizes, she asked for apologize, and in the pride season 2015, the gay, so our society we will invent, you will have the same-sex marriage.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I read that, and I became angry.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Angry.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Angela Merkel can change her mind, but my spiritual teachers, the sen teachers not.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: When I which are which are always talking about transformation and changing yourself, when I ask in 19 2002, my sen teacher or mentor about so you know at that time zen started to get into categories zen for pedagogues, sen for managers, zen for women.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So and said to the sen teacher, let us make now sen for queer people, for gay men.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: When you want to do that, you have to leave.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: You have to leave.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: So he got very angry in the docsan room, very angry, and I so and I had to leave.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Not to leave the sendo, but I have to leave the docs on the room and say everything like it is.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And also in my in my in my tantra field.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, congratulations on here.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: You have the document, you are now certified teacher, but don't tell your tantra like my tantra is named, my reputation, every other straight person could call that tantra, what is offering, like the teacher's tantra.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: I have been the only one not allowing to tell my tantra like her tantra, and this anger came up with this April fool Angela Merkel can change, but they not, and on the second of April I discovered that this has just been an April fool's joke.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I really wrong when just an April fool's joke can drive you so mad, so angry, so crazy.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: There must something be wrong with yourself, not with the outside, but with yourself.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: So if I understand correctly, a public notice went out, and you later found out that this was an April Fool's.
• 10:54
  unknown: Yes.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so this led into this pivot we're gonna talk about.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is that is that correct?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly, exactly.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that that I that this is this is the moment where there was a change in my whole system.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: A change something is wrong with yourself.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: You project your anger and rage on your teachers.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: You are you have anger and grief and suffering in yourself, thought it has nothing, they just mirror what is in me, and so take responsibility, Armin, for your life and not projecting things to the outside which are in your inside.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's a super powerful message.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Take responsibility for your life, and how many of us don't do that?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like we'll blame the government, we'll blame our partners, we'll blame our boss, you know, and sometimes like it takes what you had a catalyst there to kind of make you go like, uh oh wow.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: So where did where did that where did that take you?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you had this sort of awakening of of not taking responsibility.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So then what happened?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: What happened from there?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: What I I I showed up for a deep psychotherapeutic process, and really I did uh several times psychotheric processes where I really dig deep.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can also say primal therapy about father, about mother, and all you know, all my life I have created since 1992.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was my own creation, the gay hunter, which brought me to that point.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is wrong with me?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And in this process, I learned to forgive my father, my mother, how they have treated me.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: I heard from my little three-year-old in a in a in a in a in a journey from my inner from my father that he was beaten by my grandfather, that the grandfather was in the second in the first world war, giving the traumatiz traumatic experience to my father, and he my father was in the second world war, and he passed on to me.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: So and he never wanted that.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: So he did beat me, and when he has done that, that he was sad about that, that he did that.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you were able to go through psychopatherapy and do heal some of these ancient wounds.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: What did doing that work free you from?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I never I didn't choose that, but it came very natural that I came back to my family of origins, which I had contacted maybe 10 to 20 years not because there was no not an occasion for that, no birthday, no funeral, nothing like that.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: So there was no contact.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: But when I went home to my hometown and visited uh the cemetery where my father and mother are, so it's natural also going to my aunt, drink a coffee with her, and two cousins to be with them.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: There has been never something bad in between us, but just no contact.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so it started again to get contact, that we have contact with each other, that we see each other two times a year, having a good time, etc., etc., which can also be with non-gay people and non-spiritual people.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all good, but it came very natural.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: So my reintegration into society came very natural in this way, and also and also a lot of more again, fire for my for my vocation as a gay tantra teacher.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: My work.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: You did that healing and reconnected with family, and then so that took you to the this fire that you now brought back to to the gay tangra.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, what did that look like?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: How did how did that shift everything?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it shifted that my my my my work was again very flourishing, that I also take in now much more energetic exercises to act out, also in my act out anger, rage, frustration, etc.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, this is not me, this is not my true self, this is just something stored.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: So this changed a lot, and of course, there was the the forgiveness story went further on.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: I discovered dynamic meditation, which is an Osho tool where you strongly breeze and then act out what's inside, turning the inside out.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I have this tool on my side in every when there is a stuck situation, I can practice that, and you teach you teach this as well.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I teach this also, but then of course, then there came the pandemic time, and this the pandemic time was not so bad for me, but then the Ukraine war started, and I as this brought me again into pressure, into like a corner, and you know, I started Gay Tantra in 1992 to bring healing, to bring peace, to bring connectedness to this planet.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I had good intentions.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: How can I end up with good intentions now in such a war?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: What is my little, little tiny responsibility that this in this situation occurs in miracles met me, which is a non-dual teaching, helps your mind going from thoughts of fear of making yourself small, making bringing projection to the others, turning that and transforming your mind system, your ego mind thought uh thinking system into a love.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Love is the priority, going to a state of love, going to thinking in a loving way about what is happening, and this helps me now continuously.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: This also flows again in my gay tantra.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it has also now the subtable gay tantra in the spirit of love.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I want to spread love with gay tantra.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: I love that, yeah.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: So yes.com slash the dash wisdom dash trust slash about.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Our webpage is thewisdomtrust.com on Substack or The Wisdom Trust dot substack.com.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not watching this on YouTube, youtube.com slash at the wisdomtrust 50.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oftentimes when we hear tantra in the West, it is associated with different sexual practices, you know, how to how to elevate, you know, connection with your partner using the breath and energy.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's all beautiful, but it can also get really reductive and get really focus on sex, right?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you're saying bringing this loving kind of vibe that you experience through the Course in Miracles into that work, that warms my heart because I'm a tantric as well.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: And when when I see Tantra being reduced to sex workshops and things like that, that that that are missing some of that bigger spiritual anchoring, the fact that you're bringing this kind of energy to it, that's I think that's exceptional.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: So congratulations.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: The thing is, you have to know, or I learned to know how the ego works.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Should I share that a little bit?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, of course.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: I share that a little bit.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: So when you go into a Tantra workshop, hopefully, and usually it happens, you have your eyes get more shining, your heart gets open, you get more alive.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you do you do now more of that tantra courses, and you get more alive.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, always the ego is and the in is learns with you.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: The ego has first to disappear, that you can go into some steps outside of your comfort zone.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Outside of your comfort zone, there are the spiritual experiences and the broadening of your consciousness experience.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: But the ego always learns with you, it looks from the back and then comes again in the front, and I want more, and I want more, and I want more of that.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And this brings you into that tantra is just sex, that tantra is just ecstasy, that tantra is just body, and this is then the diminishing part, and then you have so I am now clear with that.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, this is the ego.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: We want to stay in love, take a step back, breathe through, and how can we now connect again?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's beautiful, and it's not that I'm I don't want anyone listening or watching this to think that Lauren's anti-sex.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not I sex is a beautiful thing, it's a creative force.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: That energy is your ultimate spiritual energy, it's transmuted into your higher essence of who you are.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: But what how you just described that I think was perfect because we can get really titillated on that sensorial level, and then we want more of that as opposed to what is that gonna open up to?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like when I teach yoga, I say the asana, the physical yoga, is the first step on the ladder.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a lot of other steps that that are way more powerful than the physical poses, right?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And similarly in Tantra, it's all about energy, and the sexual component of that is a big and important component of that, but it's not the only component of it.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, in my spirit, it can also be in meditation that you're sitting in silence, have some kundalini experience or some opening up, you'll get light, and then.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's always the ego has first to step back and makes the path open, the space open, but then it comes back and grabs it and sits on.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is called the spiritual ego.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very so, and I'm very happy that I learned about the spiritual ego, a practice to be very aware about my ego.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And my spiritual past today is much more now observing the ego, that this does not interfere and gets into the way that I really stay without intentions, open.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, and to watch that the ego is not stepping on the stage.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that that transitions right into this next category of up of leveling up.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you just answered that question.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm in a very similar place that you're just describing, right?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like recognizing ultimately it's just observing and connecting and disconnecting from that that small eye, you know, that I that is the thinking, the eye that is the body.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And there are a number of different techniques to explore that.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: But when we can understand that all this thinking, thinking stuff and this wanting, wanting and aversion, aversion, that's all the egoic part of ourselves.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and when we can sort of understand and see the bigger essence, that's when wow, that's when leveling up is really happening, right?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and then let the let the spirit guide you, let the spirit guide you really.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I am like starting in the in the monastery.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I surrender all my life to the divine.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: So this is where the course in miracles brings me at least again back to my roots.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: That I already with 24 years I surrendered to the so I did the solemn vow in the monastery in the monastery as a Benedictine monk, and they are still in valid for me, so not in the Benedictine frame, but from my life attitude and how I approach to life, God take my hands, take my feet, take my cock, take my brain and do with that.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's not me that so that it's not me is doing.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Nice, it's beautiful.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And if people are listening to this and maybe they're not, you know, sort of tuned in on these levels, like when we talk about some of these concepts, each religion or each system has their own way of framing it and talking about it.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if we can just suspend the idea that my way is the right way, you know, like my religion is the white religion.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: What are you talking about?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: This Tantra stuff, you know, like it's in the end, it all comes from source, right?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: We're all just products of something bigger.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, maybe this path suits me for now.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I know for me, my path is is changing at this stage in my life.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like I my meditation system was all about yoga and tantra for years, mantra systems and all that.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that anymore, right?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so we don't need to be locked into any one way, yes, we're constantly evolving, right?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, having these spiritual beings having these human experiences.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes, exactly.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: I would say like that, yes, yeah.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Where are you at right now with with all of this?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: And like I know there's been some big news recently, so tell us a little bit about that.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I serve the community, or my task is to serve, not to be the governor, to serve, yeah.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so and also when I'm in front of a class, I'm serving.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about that I receive something from the class, I serve the class, and I ask always the spirit to help me to be here in love with the participants, etc.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: etc.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, this is I have wonderful, so it's not boring, nothing is boring, nothing is boring, and yes, and so two months ago, a project from Montenegro came to me.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I do didn't know them from before, and they asked me, Do I have do you have Armin a time free in October for a retreat?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: We have can you make a retreat a seventh day from the 8th to the 15th of October?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think the dates are right, 8th to the 15th of October.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and we started to do contract and to set up a website, and it came more and more out that this is a platform, main for main Tantra, and they consider themselves as retreat platform for gay men or for men, like there are yoga retreat platforms with different teachers, and so I'm also one Tantra teacher among others, and this is really wonderful.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, of course, I have founded that, but I'm not better than others or something like that, really going with all this community on an eye level.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, of course, I bring my experience, but you know, the others have their enthusiasm and blah blah blah.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: We can all co-create something, and I'm really happy that now after how many years?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: 34 years, gay chantra changes you know in another directions.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: And today I already sent out to three participants who would like to join emails for the registration process.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: This all goes now different than the former times, so but you know, I'm open to make different things, yes, with different persons or also with the same persons, yes.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful, I love that.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: So opportunities continue to abound and and and find you, and I think that to me is a really important thing.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like at this stage, the universe, if we if we keep ourselves open, there's there's there's gifts that are constantly showing up, and sometimes we miss them because we're too narrowly focused, right?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's great.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Our ego is too much doing, still doing.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: The ego is too much in the old pattern of doing, of pushing, of that just to lean back and ask, divine, what is your will?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: I would like to surrender to you no longer, and you know, this is also the very chance, the big chance of of a of getting older in this physical body to get in a new state, so we have nothing to prove, we have done our lives already to a certain time.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, and we did it good, so now new things can happen, and even if we didn't do it good, because sometimes we look back with regrets, we still have so much to do.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, tell us in this new energy that you're you're living and embodying, how does Armin have fun?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: How do you show up for yourself?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: How do you make life light and joyful?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, life is light and joyful.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: I am here in my office, which is a shared office with other tantricas in Berlin here, another tantric community which is already existing also for 30 years or something like that.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm happy to be here part of them in the office, not in the groups, in the office.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, because we can talk about the same things, blah blah blah.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: So this is already wonderful, and one another certain important thing when I feel a little stressed, lean back and breathe.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: So there is stress, is just pressure, is just the ego wanting to come in, surrender, nothing to achieve, just be here, and of course, there is many creative things to do: making your Instagram, making your Facebook, making with artificial intelligence.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's all wonderful what's there coming up, and just to take that, learn that it's not it, it's not difficult to learn that, just be open for that.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, I'm happy that I overcome all the resistances through the therapeutic processes to embrace also the life in the here and now fully.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: So love that, and yeah, that's what it's here and now presenting that it's it's Instagram, it's TikTok, it's oh I don't know, whatever.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, having that, yeah, and of course, classes are nice, traveling is nice, so yeah, when you're doing something you love, there there's joy in that, right?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's what I think a lot of us are like, oh, I can't wait to retire, and and and whatever.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, but you got a you got a few decades after 65 for most of us.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're we're living to 90 and and into 90s now.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: So what are you gonna do that's gonna light you up and and bring you joy?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't have to be a job, but maybe it is, you know, it could be something that generates revenue.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: But the point really is what lights you, what what what is your spark?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't know, well then that's that's a project to work on, right?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for me, it's lightning up every day to read in a course of miracles, and to go with the lessons there.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is what's lightening me up.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Just have no no thought, just have thoughts of love and not of grief or anger or something like that.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's the lesson of today.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: So and and I read in that and I listen to that, and every hour, maybe when I'm not when I have the time, it reminds me to look into that and breathe and take this to your heart, and then go into a time and jump and have sexual things and blah blah blah.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the thing that I like about that is you're you're recommending people maybe do something like stepping out of their routine using an app that gives you different ways of thinking about things, reflecting on things.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's so many tools now, especially in this digital age, that it doesn't have to be the doom scrolling, right?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's stuff there that's so powerful.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: What I'd like to start to wrap up with is I'd love for you to share with the viewers, the listeners some some words of wisdom that they can take away.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Just allow yourself to breeze, to put your hands on your chest, to close your eyes, breeze, and you get very quick back to peace.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: I take this this is the quickest way to get back to happiness.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Totally getting to connect it to your breath, connecting to your heart center.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: I love that it's simple and and profound.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you shared with me how folks can connect with you.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Here's a link to Armin's website.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure if you just go to arminheinig.com, you could probably get there as well, not the big long thing.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you and they're gonna see everything there that you're doing, right?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, they go better better to the gay tantra you site.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Here on the arminheining.com site, you see me as my appearance to all people, and on gay tantra you you see my appearance to the gay to the main to the man's world.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a link to that through this this site or or not?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know exactly.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's and they can also find you here, and this one might be a little bit more apt for this this audience, this group, gay tantra.eu.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, beautiful.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm just glad.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's been wonderful connecting with you, and I look forward to seeing where this all goes, and and that your your new position in Montenegro is fabulous, and you find so much love and joy there.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you, Lauren, for setting up this podcast.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for your work you are doing.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is important what you are doing, just to give us, you know, we are we are maybe the first generation which is going into that age or or with awareness, and thank you for your support you are giving with what you are doing.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, you can find out more about wisdom trust at our Substack channel.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: So go check that out.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's essays, there'll be other uh forms there of communication, some smaller form documentation, some video.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: And these podcasts are in video form on our YouTube channel.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: So be sure to check those out as well.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you to our guests today, and thank you for listening.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: If what you heard landed with you, if you felt seen, heard, inspired to make a shift, want to hear about it.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Get back to me on one of our platforms or where you're listening to or seeing this.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: And if you know another man over 50 who you think would benefit from hearing this, share it with them, please.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: This community grows when we show up for each other.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: You can find more essays on these topics, reflections, and such at our Substack account.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Watch for other content on our YouTube channel, and stay connected to us through our school platform.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is where we engage and building our community.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, the second half of life isn't the beginning of the end.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: For many of us, it's the moment life finally begins to open up.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: You're not alone in this.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're in it together.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'll see you next time on the wisdom.