Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Lake Bodom Murders

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Lake Bodom Murders · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

0:02
Speaker 1: The Lake Bodha murders is one of the most infamous
0:04
Speaker 1: unsolved homicide cases in Finnish history. Four teenagers went out
0:09
Speaker 1: to enjoy night of camping and were mysteriously attacked while
0:12
Speaker 1: sleeping in their tent. Only one would survive. Despite an
0:17
Speaker 1: extensive investigation, the person responsible for these heinous murders has
0:22
Speaker 1: yet to be found.
0:25
Speaker 2: Good warning the following podcast and the graphic cemeterial for
0:31
Speaker 2: mature audience listeners. Hey, I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, and you
0:59
Speaker 2: are listening to Wicked and Grim.
1:01
Speaker 1: A true crime podcast.
1:04
Speaker 2: Hello. Hello, we don't have any can opening this morning.
1:07
Speaker 2: Cheers because it is the morning right now earning.
1:11
Speaker 1: This is a rarity for us that we're recording this
1:13
Speaker 1: first thing in the in the nicko down? Is that
1:18
Speaker 1: the same?
1:19
Speaker 2: The nick of down is the same. I think you're
1:21
Speaker 2: trying to, like say, like the nick of time and
1:25
Speaker 2: like at dawn?
1:26
Speaker 1: What is he saying though with down? Though?
1:30
Speaker 2: There we go? That was an interesting combination.
1:33
Speaker 1: I actually kind of like my my version better.
1:35
Speaker 2: Are you thinking like the crack of dawn?
1:38
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe the crack crack of dawn? Ask crack of dawn?
1:41
Speaker 1: I don't know.
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Speaker 2: Funny story, my dad's name is down.
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Speaker 1: Oh there you go. You just made that weird?
1:47
Speaker 2: Yeah wow yeah, So welcome to Wicked and Grim. Yeah,
1:55
Speaker 2: we're tired.
1:56
Speaker 1: We're recording this a couple of days early because now
2:00
Speaker 1: is going on on a little Vaca.
2:02
Speaker 2: Little holiday, and we're we thought, you know what, we
2:05
Speaker 2: just did a Q and a break episode, so we
2:07
Speaker 2: probably shouldn't break episode again. So we pushed through and
2:10
Speaker 2: Nicole poll basically an all nighter to get this episode
2:13
Speaker 2: done for us tonight while I was getting ready for
2:15
Speaker 2: my vacation. Yeah, there we go, So thank you for that.
2:19
Speaker 2: What else do you have to talk about? What do
2:21
Speaker 2: you got?
2:21
Speaker 1: Oh we did a pretty fun vote on Instagram.
2:27
Speaker 2: Oh that's malarkey. That was bullshite.
2:31
Speaker 1: Oh the competition was really unfair there, Like, I'm sorry.
2:34
Speaker 1: I yeah.
2:35
Speaker 2: Well, to lay down the foundation for this, the expectations were.
2:40
Speaker 1: That I was going to get my ass and did
2:43
Speaker 1: to me.
2:43
Speaker 2: We knew that if you didn't know the last episode.
2:47
Speaker 2: I bought some knockoff pit vipers for my vacation, right, so,
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Speaker 2: super cheap, super god awful. I looked like a complete tool,
2:55
Speaker 2: but I wore them while we were recording last time.
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Speaker 1: Oh man, the whole episode was actually the worse for me.
3:01
Speaker 1: I had the worst part in all of this. That
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Speaker 1: was terrible.
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Speaker 2: I had no problem.
3:05
Speaker 1: I couldn't even see your eyeballs. It sucked.
3:09
Speaker 2: Again, I had no problem with it. So Yeah, anyways,
3:13
Speaker 2: we decided to do a little who Wore It Best?
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Speaker 2: Over on Instagram and Facebook. I mean I think it
3:19
Speaker 2: was posted on Facebook as well, but the poll was
3:22
Speaker 2: on Instagram itself. Yeah, and it was who were at best?
3:25
Speaker 1: Between myself and little Ripley, our little I was going
3:29
Speaker 1: to say four, but I think she's still only three.
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Speaker 1: Three year old husky. Yep, he was cute as hell.
3:34
Speaker 2: The results not surprising. I kicked Ripley's ass. No, I'm
3:39
Speaker 2: just kidding. Ripley kicked mine hand overfoot ninety four percent
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Speaker 2: to six percent. I did have six percent of the votes.
3:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's actually pretty good.
3:48
Speaker 2: I had what was it like fourteen votes or something
3:51
Speaker 2: like that.
3:52
Speaker 1: Thank you a bit more than that.
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Speaker 2: Well, thank you to those people. I can't go into
3:55
Speaker 2: the analytics right now, but yeah, I'm not going to
3:56
Speaker 2: waste that time, but thank you to those people who
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Speaker 2: did vote. I literally have looked through all your names
4:02
Speaker 2: and I made a mental note you guys are now
4:04
Speaker 2: in my good books. You earned some brownie points.
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Speaker 1: My gosh. I think the biggest problem was the fact
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Speaker 1: that I voted for Ripley.
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Speaker 2: Yes, that is my issue with this whole.
4:13
Speaker 1: That was Ben's main issue. Okay, no, but I didn't.
4:16
Speaker 1: I tied my vote. So I have two accounts as
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Speaker 1: I have like my personal and then I have my business,
4:20
Speaker 1: and I voted for each of you, which I thought
4:22
Speaker 1: was very fair. I love you both.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is very fair if it was a fair fight. However,
4:30
Speaker 2: we already said we knew I was going to get
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Speaker 2: my ass kicked, so I thought I would be able
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Speaker 2: to depend on your support.
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Speaker 1: You did. You got my one vote and.
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Speaker 2: Ripley got your other. That's that's bullshit.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was That was the thing that actually made
4:46
Speaker 1: Ben the most up set there.
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Speaker 2: So I it was malarkey. I failed through and through.
4:51
Speaker 1: I thought it was kind of funny though. Anyway. We
4:54
Speaker 1: also have a few lovely patrons patrons patrons I always
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Speaker 1: like make over on Patreon, patrons on Patreon to thank.
5:04
Speaker 2: This week that ten times fast patrons on.
5:06
Speaker 1: Patriot And just a side note too, Like we said,
5:08
Speaker 1: we are recording early, so if you do sign up
5:11
Speaker 1: then in the time being, then you'll we'll thank you
5:13
Speaker 1: next week.
5:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much, you'll just be You'll be thanked eventually
5:19
Speaker 2: because we're recording early and I'm gone for a week,
5:22
Speaker 2: so yeah, we will catch up on you. You will
5:24
Speaker 2: get your shout out, don't worry about that. So the
5:27
Speaker 2: three we do have to shout out this week are
5:30
Speaker 2: Mimu Wama, love that name, by the way.
5:32
Speaker 1: That's awesome.
5:33
Speaker 2: Deborah Morel's I hope I said her last name right.
5:36
Speaker 2: She did tell us over in Patreon how to pronounce
5:38
Speaker 2: her first name, so I'm glad she did that.
5:40
Speaker 1: Thank you her first name or last name her.
5:42
Speaker 2: First name, because she's got like a little like asterisk
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Speaker 2: over the e and stuff, so sometimes it's like you
5:47
Speaker 2: never know how it's really pronounced. Yeah, so she clarified
5:51
Speaker 2: for us awesome, And Katie Johnson perfect, Katie, love your name.
5:56
Speaker 2: It was easy to pronounce. I have no question about it.
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Speaker 2: So thank you for that.
6:00
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you so much. That's so awesome. Oh my goodness.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do want to tell everyone about a
6:06
Speaker 2: contest we're currently running over on Patreon as well while
6:09
Speaker 2: you're here for the next week, So it's going to
6:13
Speaker 2: be what was the date again, It's next Friday, which
6:16
Speaker 2: I think was the twelfth, No, the ninth, It's up
6:19
Speaker 2: until Friday, September the ninth. We want people over on
6:23
Speaker 2: Patreon to you know, do a little thing, send us
6:26
Speaker 2: a little email with it all. I can't I can't
6:27
Speaker 2: tell you guys, because you got to be a Patreon
6:29
Speaker 2: to find it out. But yeah, if you want to
6:32
Speaker 2: find with the cool giveaway where you can win an
6:34
Speaker 2: exclusive shirt, you can become part of Patreon. If you
6:36
Speaker 2: don't though, don't want to sign up for Patreon, don't
6:38
Speaker 2: want to go over there, totally cool. We still love
6:40
Speaker 2: you just as the same. Thank you for being here.
6:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, just being here and listening is awesome, So thank you.
6:46
Speaker 2: Okay, should we get into this. We've rambled for like
6:48
Speaker 2: five minutes already.
6:49
Speaker 1: So I just have like a disclaimer I suppose is
6:52
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of hard names to pronounce in here,
6:56
Speaker 1: so as always, we're going to do our best.
6:59
Speaker 2: Wickeds.
7:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. This is actually a case that I
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Speaker 1: feel like Ben would probably have done and chosen. So
7:06
Speaker 1: I'm basically being Ben today, but with a little bit less.
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Speaker 2: You need to wear.
7:12
Speaker 1: With a little bit less able to pronounce. Is that
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Speaker 1: how you'd wear that, I guess with lack of pronunciation,
7:18
Speaker 1: ben with a little less lack of pronunciation and sunglasses. Yeah, no,
7:23
Speaker 1: I just have my normal, uh, my normal glasses, normal spectacles,
7:26
Speaker 1: my computer. Okay, Oh my gosh. This was actually kind
7:30
Speaker 1: of an interesting one to research. I enjoyed this, so
7:35
Speaker 1: not that I enjoyed what happened, but it was just
7:37
Speaker 1: a bit interesting. So today we are talking about the
7:41
Speaker 1: Lake Botom murders.
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Speaker 2: So I've never even heard of this one.
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Speaker 1: I know, which is mind blowing. So. Lake Botom is
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Speaker 1: a Finnish lake located near the city of Espo and
7:53
Speaker 1: twenty kilometers so twelve miles west of the Finnish capital Helsinki.
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Speaker 1: It just it's described as a large, tranquil lake surrounded
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Speaker 1: by small villages and stands of birch and pine trees.
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Speaker 1: The lake does measure approximately three kilometers in length and
8:10
Speaker 1: one kilometer in width, so it's not like a huge lake.
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Speaker 2: Definitely not huge, but it sounds like a good size yeah,
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Speaker 2: and birch and pine trees. That sounds like glorious country.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, like it sounds it sounds great. So On Saturday,
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Speaker 1: June fourth, nineteen sixty four, teenagers arrived at the so
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Speaker 1: shore of Lake Bodom to enjoy a night of camping together.
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Speaker 1: The group would consist of two couples. So we have
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Speaker 1: sepo boys men, Anya Mackie, who went by her middle
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Speaker 1: name to Linky, being one of the couple, and then
8:43
Speaker 1: Nils Gustavson and Mila Bjorklund being the other. So both
8:49
Speaker 1: boys were eighteen and the girls being fifteen.
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Speaker 2: Two things here a well done in that pronunciation, thank you,
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Speaker 2: And two I'm pretty sure this is how every horror
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Speaker 2: movie in the eighties.
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Speaker 1: Acause I never even thought of that. Shit.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like some couples going out camping to this
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Speaker 2: lake and the.
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Speaker 1: I never even thought of that. And honestly, this is
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Speaker 1: one hundred and percent a horror story. All they were
9:16
Speaker 1: a movie or whatever you want to say.
9:17
Speaker 2: There you go. All they need now is a cabin
9:20
Speaker 2: and the necronomicon and you have evil dead or you
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Speaker 2: need now is like a camp with cabins and you
9:27
Speaker 2: have Friday the thirteenth, Like.
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Speaker 1: Wow, we're really set in the mood here for this thing.
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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Okay, So they arrived at the lake
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Speaker 1: on the boys motorcycles. They lean them up against two
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Speaker 1: trees to park and went about pitching their light colored
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Speaker 1: tent for the night. And so to describe I guess
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Speaker 1: the tent, it's kind of one of those ones that
9:46
Speaker 1: has like a string in the middle and then the
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Speaker 1: tents like.
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Speaker 2: How it was like those like triangular.
9:51
Speaker 1: Strangle or once. Yeah, and it's very and it's light colored.
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Speaker 1: It seemed like it was a bit small for four people,
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Speaker 1: so they kind of had to like in there, you know.
10:00
Speaker 1: So Seppel was the oldest of the group. He had
10:03
Speaker 1: turned eighteen in January and was working as an apprentice electrician. Nils,
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Speaker 1: who was best friends with Sepel since they were like
10:12
Speaker 1: around twelve years old or so, had turned eighteen less
10:15
Speaker 1: than a month before the camping trip, and he too
10:18
Speaker 1: was taking a similar path as Seppel as an electrician.
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Speaker 1: So they seem like they're very close boys and like
10:25
Speaker 1: grew up I guess a little bit together in their
10:27
Speaker 1: teen years anyway, and then we're taking a similar path
10:30
Speaker 1: as adults. So Tulinki was the youngest of the group.
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Speaker 1: She just celebrated her fifteenth birthday three months prior to
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Speaker 1: the trip. Her father had been against the camping trip,
10:44
Speaker 1: but she was able to get her mother to persuade
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Speaker 1: him into letting her go. I mean rightfully, so rightfully.
10:51
Speaker 1: So they were still in high school and these boys
10:54
Speaker 1: weren't right.
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Speaker 2: Eighteen with fifteen, I mean, like retrospect, Yeah, three years
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Speaker 2: difference isn't very big that age.
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Speaker 1: At that age, three.
11:01
Speaker 2: Years is a fairly big gap.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. So and then finally we had Mila. There was
11:08
Speaker 1: some speculation in the group maybe out there celebrating her birthday,
11:11
Speaker 1: as she was just two days shy of turning sixteen.
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Speaker 1: So Tulinky and Mila were also best friends, so kind
11:17
Speaker 1: of cool like that they're all just like, I don't know,
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Speaker 1: I love that. It's hard to have like good couple friends, right, Yeah.
11:23
Speaker 2: Usually it's like couples are like the guy is friends
11:26
Speaker 2: with the guy because it's like the girls are friends
11:28
Speaker 2: and vice versa. It's like, not always do you find
11:31
Speaker 2: people who are actually all friends exactly.
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Speaker 1: And it just had worked out that way because one
11:35
Speaker 1: of the couple started dating and then introduced the other
11:40
Speaker 1: and then they kind of started deliking each other too.
11:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there we went. So, yeah, you had to
11:44
Speaker 2: find a relationship between individuals and just have everyone be
11:47
Speaker 2: chill with it. Yeah, that's cool.
11:50
Speaker 1: So after setting up camp, the two girls decided to
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Speaker 1: go for a swim while the boys enjoyed some bevies,
11:55
Speaker 1: some bebes, some bevies. There's an entry in Mila's diary
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Speaker 1: from evening where she wrote that Seppo and Nills were drunk,
12:03
Speaker 1: they were up at two am, and that Seppo had
12:06
Speaker 1: gone fishing. So from my understanding, the two girls didn't
12:10
Speaker 1: necessarily partake in drinking that night, and that the couples
12:13
Speaker 1: did go to bed around midnight, but Seppo got up
12:17
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night to go fishing, which
12:19
Speaker 1: I can kind of explain here. In a sack One
12:22
Speaker 1: article I read, it mentioned it was a white night.
12:25
Speaker 1: Do you know what that is? I had no idea
12:27
Speaker 1: what that was.
12:27
Speaker 2: White night?
12:29
Speaker 1: So, which is when the sun dips just below the
12:31
Speaker 1: horizon and the light has like a grayish quality. It's
12:36
Speaker 1: almost like someone dialed down the brightness for a few hours.
12:39
Speaker 1: So it explains why he might have been up maybe
12:42
Speaker 1: having trouble fishing or sorry, sleeping, because it wasn't totally
12:45
Speaker 1: dark out and that he could still see enough to
12:48
Speaker 1: go fishing.
12:48
Speaker 2: Okay, gotcha? H Yeah, interesting.
12:52
Speaker 1: So then the sun would rise again at four in
12:54
Speaker 1: the morning, and that's about that until some time between
12:59
Speaker 1: the hour of four and six am, when it's believed
13:02
Speaker 1: the incident or attack occurred. Oh shit, So the discovery
13:07
Speaker 1: isn't quite cut and dry. There's a few stories out there,
13:10
Speaker 1: but the most common one I went with, and it
13:13
Speaker 1: seems to go as follows.
13:15
Speaker 2: You literally have me like on the edge of my
13:17
Speaker 2: seat right now. I'm so like, like, what the fuck
13:19
Speaker 2: happens here?
13:20
Speaker 1: Oh it's not good, dude, it's not good. So at
13:23
Speaker 1: six am on June fifth, when the boys were out
13:26
Speaker 1: or sorry, two boys, this is separate boys. Six am
13:29
Speaker 1: June fifth, two boys were out early bird watching. From
13:33
Speaker 1: a distance, they could see the teen's campsite, which at
13:37
Speaker 1: this point was just a collapse tent, and they also
13:41
Speaker 1: claimed that they saw a blonde man walking away from
13:44
Speaker 1: the site. It isn't until sometime later, though, around eleven am,
13:50
Speaker 1: that the actual gruesome scene is discovered. Was discovered by
13:53
Speaker 1: a man named Esco, who alerted the police, and when
13:58
Speaker 1: the police did arrive on the scene it was about noon,
14:01
Speaker 1: so quite a bit sometime later. Now, the scene that
14:04
Speaker 1: Esco discovered and that the police were faced with was
14:08
Speaker 1: horrifying to say the least outside the tent was Nils,
14:13
Speaker 1: who thankfully was still alive. He was unconscious and definitely injured,
14:19
Speaker 1: but alive. Apparently it wasn't until the police got to
14:22
Speaker 1: the scene that was even realized that he was still alive.
14:25
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
14:27
Speaker 1: Now inside the collapse tent were the bodies of Sepo
14:30
Speaker 1: and Tulinky, with Mila's body being draped over the slashed
14:38
Speaker 1: and blood soaked tent. The killer had not injured the
14:42
Speaker 1: teens from inside the tent, but had attacked them from
14:45
Speaker 1: outside using a knife and an unidentified blunt object, possibly
14:51
Speaker 1: a rock.
14:52
Speaker 2: Fuck. This is literally straight out of a horror movie.
14:56
Speaker 1: So they what had happened apparently is like they cut
15:00
Speaker 1: to the strings of the tent, so the tent collapsed
15:02
Speaker 1: on the teens and then they went to town murdering them.
15:06
Speaker 1: Fuck like you would be like that. That is just
15:10
Speaker 1: horrifying to.
15:11
Speaker 2: Think, no kidding.
15:13
Speaker 1: So the murder weapons to this day have not been found.
15:18
Speaker 1: All four teenagers suffered serious blows to the head with
15:22
Speaker 1: said blunt object and had broken jaws. Both Sepo and
15:26
Speaker 1: Mala had been stabbed with Mala's injuries being significantly more
15:32
Speaker 1: brutal than the others. She was found undressed from the
15:35
Speaker 1: waist down and was stabbed fifteen times, with some of
15:38
Speaker 1: the wounds inflicted after she had already died.
15:41
Speaker 2: Fuck.
15:43
Speaker 1: Several items that should have been at the crime scene weren't,
15:46
Speaker 1: which puzzled detectives, including the keys to the boy's motorcycles,
15:51
Speaker 1: but the motorcycles themselves were still left behind. Wallets, watches,
15:56
Speaker 1: and items of clothing were also taken, and belongings were
16:01
Speaker 1: scattered around, including Nil's shoes, which were hidden approximately five
16:06
Speaker 1: hundred meters from the murder site. Under Like, I think
16:10
Speaker 1: it was like a rock or something. Okay, so as
16:14
Speaker 1: it can happen. Unfortunately, there are many errors within the investigations,
16:20
Speaker 1: of course.
16:21
Speaker 2: I can I stop you for a second and kind
16:23
Speaker 2: of tell you where my mind is going. I think
16:26
Speaker 2: this is a vagrant of sort. I think it's some
16:31
Speaker 2: individual who lives out in the woods. It seems like
16:36
Speaker 2: he found an opportunity. Like maybe he not doesn't like people,
16:40
Speaker 2: not used to people. Maybe he literally grew up as
16:42
Speaker 2: a fucking child out in the bush alone. I don't know,
16:45
Speaker 2: but someone who's out in the bush and doesn't like
16:48
Speaker 2: people doesn't see them as people, just saw them as
16:51
Speaker 2: an opportunity to take things for himself. So things like
16:57
Speaker 2: shoes that he grabbed and then realize they don't really
17:01
Speaker 2: fit or maybe I'm going to stow them for later
17:02
Speaker 2: or something like that. Took these odds and ends. He
17:05
Speaker 2: doesn't know how to drive a motorbicle a motorbike at all,
17:08
Speaker 2: so we just took things and went off to wherever
17:13
Speaker 2: he lived. M interesting, that's kind of where my mind's
17:17
Speaker 2: going right now. But there's more details to come, I'm sure.
17:20
Speaker 2: So that really well could change.
17:22
Speaker 1: Well and did I say that this is unsolved?
17:24
Speaker 2: You did?
17:25
Speaker 1: Okay? Yeah, So yeah, there are like four four theories
17:29
Speaker 1: suspects I suppose that will go through. So this is
17:33
Speaker 1: like totally a bend case.
17:34
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. I love these ones where you get to
17:37
Speaker 2: like have.
17:37
Speaker 1: Theories and you and your mind gets kind of wander
17:40
Speaker 1: and figure it out.
17:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, you get to like talk about it and try
17:42
Speaker 2: and think and come up with possibilities and well what if?
17:45
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's it's intriguing.
17:48
Speaker 1: Totally, Yeah, it absolutely is.
17:50
Speaker 2: And the biggest thing is because it really gets you
17:52
Speaker 2: talking about the psyche of individuals because I mean sure, Okay,
17:55
Speaker 2: an individual does a heinous crime and they take someone's life,
18:00
Speaker 2: they go to court, and they're in jail. Most of
18:02
Speaker 2: the time, there's not much to really ask questions about
18:05
Speaker 2: as far as why. Sometimes they say it sometimes it's
18:09
Speaker 2: pretty cut and dry, or sometimes it's just they're.
18:11
Speaker 1: Really weird, or they could be throwing you right off
18:13
Speaker 1: and saying yeah, like something completely.
18:15
Speaker 2: But even still, the questions are much more narrow because
18:19
Speaker 2: you know who it is, you know the time, you
18:20
Speaker 2: know everything. When you don't know these things, you start
18:24
Speaker 2: you need to ask these broad questions to even begin
18:27
Speaker 2: to narrow it down. And that idea of these broad
18:30
Speaker 2: questions to try and understand what the fuck is crazy?
18:35
Speaker 2: Wild to me?
18:36
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and even with this case, so, I mean,
18:39
Speaker 1: there isn't it even a ton known because well, three
18:41
Speaker 1: of the four victims are deceased and the one has
18:47
Speaker 1: a head had a head injury. And then as in
18:50
Speaker 1: boat to go through, like the police kind of watched
18:53
Speaker 1: it fucked up a bit here.
18:54
Speaker 2: Okay, well let's hear how badly fucked up.
18:57
Speaker 1: Okay, you're ready, I'm ready. So the police did not
19:01
Speaker 1: quarantine off the area, and they failed to take official
19:05
Speaker 1: records of their findings. To put it vaguely here.
19:11
Speaker 2: What that's literally like those are your final steps.
19:16
Speaker 1: That's like your jobs. So basically, once the police did leave,
19:22
Speaker 1: the crime scene wasn't blocked off whatsoever, so curious onlookers
19:27
Speaker 1: and careless campers were able to trample around and disturb
19:30
Speaker 1: the murder scene, further contamining the site and disturbing any
19:34
Speaker 1: pressor's evidence that may have been left behind from the
19:37
Speaker 1: initial search that is wild. Once the mistake was realized,
19:42
Speaker 1: they called the military inn to help, so invited more
19:45
Speaker 1: people onto the crime scene to assist with looking for
19:49
Speaker 1: evidence and missing items like the murder weapons. Searches of
19:54
Speaker 1: the lake was done with metal detectorists I think it's
19:57
Speaker 1: how you say it, and archa digs as this set
20:02
Speaker 1: as the site never uncovered any missing items, so like
20:05
Speaker 1: the weapons, like all those people coming in there, nothing
20:09
Speaker 1: was ever discovered. And it said that maybe onlookers could
20:12
Speaker 1: have taken something right like curious a souvenir potentially, or
20:17
Speaker 1: like the police might even like loss some of the things.
20:21
Speaker 2: Yeah so, or potentially someone could have maybe taken it
20:24
Speaker 2: thinking it's like, oh someone lost this, I won if
20:26
Speaker 2: I can find the owner, not even thinking it's related
20:28
Speaker 2: to the crimes. Oh absolutely, yeah, Oh I found someone's keys.
20:30
Speaker 2: I wonder who these are.
20:32
Speaker 1: And then to top it all off, many of the
20:34
Speaker 1: items which were collected were so soaked in the victim's blood,
20:37
Speaker 1: so the evidence that may have been left on them
20:40
Speaker 1: was destroyed.
20:41
Speaker 2: Wow.
20:42
Speaker 1: So like it was literally like what was collected? Really?
20:47
Speaker 1: You know what? I don't know, it was just from
20:49
Speaker 1: the beginning, just fucked for lack of better words.
20:53
Speaker 2: Yeah.
20:54
Speaker 1: So once Nils, who they had kind of put some
20:57
Speaker 1: pressure on, the sole survivor of the teens, have worked
21:00
Speaker 1: covered enough, he was interviewed by the police regarding the incident,
21:03
Speaker 1: like maybe he remembers some things. He remembered very little
21:08
Speaker 1: to nothing about the attack or much of the prior evening.
21:11
Speaker 1: He was drinking right, and he had suffered a head injury,
21:15
Speaker 1: so it's not to be completely unexpected, but it was
21:18
Speaker 1: definitely disappointing. The one thing that he did remember, though,
21:22
Speaker 1: was a blonde man who he glimpsed through one of
21:25
Speaker 1: the rips in the tent during the attack, which was
21:28
Speaker 1: interesting because the boys out bird watching said they saw
21:31
Speaker 1: a blonde man walking away from the site at around
21:34
Speaker 1: six am that morning, and there was another potential witness, Olive,
21:41
Speaker 1: who was fourteen years old and fishing at the time,
21:44
Speaker 1: that also saw a blonde man roughly between twenty to
21:48
Speaker 1: thirty around five foot eight inches tall, running from the
21:52
Speaker 1: location of the tent around six am as well. Oh shit,
21:56
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so that's something.
21:58
Speaker 2: I would say that is most likely we are men.
22:00
Speaker 1: Yes, I would say so too. So police allegedly interviewed
22:04
Speaker 1: around four thousand people.
22:06
Speaker 2: Holy shit.
22:07
Speaker 1: So though they watched the crime scene, they did seem
22:10
Speaker 1: to put in their efforts in regards to interviewing people.
22:13
Speaker 1: But that's a lot of people.
22:15
Speaker 2: That seems absurd to say they interviewed four thousand. How
22:18
Speaker 2: could four thousand people, even I don't know skin to
22:21
Speaker 2: be correlated to this.
22:23
Speaker 1: Well, I mean they're yeah, rumors maybe are spreading. Then
22:28
Speaker 1: they're just like chit chat and people even on their doorstep,
22:31
Speaker 1: like who knows. I don't know how they.
22:32
Speaker 2: Got to that number, but still four thousand is a lot.
22:36
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the lives of Sepo, Mila and Tulinky were
22:41
Speaker 1: celebrated on June thirteenth. Their white coffins were covered in
22:45
Speaker 1: sweet pea blossoms with the teens being buried together.
22:49
Speaker 2: I like that.
22:50
Speaker 1: I know. I'm just like, oh my gosh, Well they're
22:53
Speaker 1: all friends, I guess.
22:53
Speaker 2: Right, hm, and they went through something incredibly tragic together.
22:57
Speaker 1: So yeah, So that brings us to the list of
23:01
Speaker 1: potential suspects. Really like, there's not a lot that's known here,
23:05
Speaker 1: and there's four of them, So in no particular order,
23:09
Speaker 1: we'll start with Carl Jilstrom, also referred to as the
23:14
Speaker 1: Kiosk Keeper or kios Man, being that he ran a
23:17
Speaker 1: small wooden summer kios at Oodola Beach. I might be
23:22
Speaker 1: I've watched that story just a few hundred meters from
23:25
Speaker 1: where the teens were camping that night, and he also
23:27
Speaker 1: lived close by.
23:29
Speaker 2: So did no one hear any fucking screams or anything?
23:33
Speaker 1: Even the people that were out there and stuff. No
23:35
Speaker 1: one apparently heard anything. Wow, which I find very odd.
23:40
Speaker 1: That is because I was thinking, like, this was it's
23:42
Speaker 1: not that big.
23:44
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and I was kind of almost thinking he
23:45
Speaker 2: was a little bit more secluded. But by the sounds
23:47
Speaker 2: of this guy's only like a few hundred meters away,
23:48
Speaker 2: you said, the.
23:49
Speaker 1: Burdis guy, Yeah, he lived close by. Oh yeah, but
23:55
Speaker 1: I don't know if he would have been at his key.
23:56
Speaker 2: Oh, I guess at the time.
23:58
Speaker 1: Right, like it was very early in the morning.
24:00
Speaker 2: Well, the only thing I was thinking was like the
24:01
Speaker 2: bird watchers, I'm like, did they not hear the screams?
24:03
Speaker 2: But then I was also like, well, they're probably a
24:05
Speaker 2: distracted and maybe you know, thinking maybe it was a
24:09
Speaker 2: bird off in the distance and that's what drew their
24:10
Speaker 2: attention to looking that way to the camp. Who knows,
24:13
Speaker 2: but you.
24:14
Speaker 1: Would think that it would be it would have been
24:16
Speaker 1: very loud, I would think so for any people being murdered, sound.
24:20
Speaker 2: Travels across water very well.
24:22
Speaker 1: I know I kind of thought of that too, but
24:24
Speaker 1: I could nothing really ever said anything about that. It
24:28
Speaker 1: just said that, for example, the one little boy fisherman
24:32
Speaker 1: who was fourteen, didn't hear anything. So so many locals
24:37
Speaker 1: suspected Carl because he was known to be hostile towards campers.
24:43
Speaker 1: One local man, Ulf Johansson, he's a local author and councilman,
24:48
Speaker 1: would tell Finnland News website that no local would have
24:52
Speaker 1: camped in that place where the four camped. The locals
24:55
Speaker 1: knew that kiosk Man would cut the tent strings so
24:58
Speaker 1: that the tent fell down, felt loud, and left. This
25:01
Speaker 1: is what the kios Man always did. If someone dared
25:04
Speaker 1: to set up a tent on the site, he chased
25:07
Speaker 1: away everyone who came there to camp. He claimed that
25:10
Speaker 1: Karl had mental health issues so severe that he was
25:13
Speaker 1: admitted to hospital during World War Two, and on top
25:17
Speaker 1: of all of that, also had a drinking problem.
25:20
Speaker 2: Holy shit, And.
25:22
Speaker 1: He was territorial over his section of the lake shore
25:26
Speaker 1: and a person Johansson, being of similar age to the
25:30
Speaker 1: murdered kids, said Carl hit him in the back with
25:32
Speaker 1: a rock one day as he cycled along the road
25:35
Speaker 1: to the lake past Karl's kios.
25:39
Speaker 2: Holy shit. Okay, So either in my mind we have
25:45
Speaker 2: our individual or we have someone who did it like him,
25:50
Speaker 2: knowing that it would be pinned on him.
25:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets there's more here. It gets worse with him.
25:57
Speaker 1: So Nils and Seppo apparently bought lemonade for from Karl
26:00
Speaker 1: on June fourth, the day they arrived at the lake. Police, however,
26:04
Speaker 1: found no evidence to link him to the murders and
26:06
Speaker 1: accepted his alibi, and his wife backed up his alibi,
26:10
Speaker 1: saying that he was at home asleep with her like
26:14
Speaker 1: in bed. But in nineteen sixty nine, So nine years later,
26:17
Speaker 1: after the murders, while drunk one night, Carl allegedly admitted
26:22
Speaker 1: to committing the murders to a neighbor, saying, you bloody idiot,
26:27
Speaker 1: don't you realize I'm the Bodham murderer? What am I
26:30
Speaker 1: going to do? In August of that year, after a
26:34
Speaker 1: three day drinking binge, Carl actually drowned in Lake Bodom,
26:39
Speaker 1: most likely by suicide. Police dismissed his confession due to
26:44
Speaker 1: his drunken state, and they considered him disturbed. However, I'm
26:48
Speaker 1: not too sure when, but as his wife was on
26:51
Speaker 1: her deathbed, she recanted her alibi, saying she gave a
26:55
Speaker 1: false alibi and that she believed her husband actually committed
26:59
Speaker 1: the murder.
27:00
Speaker 2: Well, what the fuck we have our guy?
27:04
Speaker 1: I mean, it seems very I don't know.
27:08
Speaker 2: The wife believes he did it. Yeah, falsified her alibi.
27:11
Speaker 2: He confess confessed in a drunken stupor, and the police
27:15
Speaker 2: shrugged it off because he was drunk. And yet when
27:17
Speaker 2: people are drunk, that's usually when they're the most honest.
27:20
Speaker 1: He already had an aggressive tendency towards campers like he
27:24
Speaker 1: didn't seem like he was a happy man.
27:26
Speaker 2: And some of the things that he did in the
27:29
Speaker 2: past link up to things that happened in this crowd.
27:32
Speaker 2: We have our fucking dude case closed. Podcasts done, ladies
27:35
Speaker 2: and gentlemen. You don't have to listen anymore.
27:37
Speaker 1: I know that one's very convincing.
27:39
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm sorry, but I'm sold your soul. I don't
27:42
Speaker 2: think that they.
27:43
Speaker 1: Don't even want to hear any of the other ones.
27:45
Speaker 2: I want to hear. But I'm almost guaranteeing you that
27:49
Speaker 2: I will not be have my mind changed.
27:51
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I should note though Karl was dark haired,
27:54
Speaker 1: he didn't have blond hair, but some have said it
27:57
Speaker 1: was him they saw back from the murder scene that night,
28:00
Speaker 1: and we're just too afraid to call the police about him.
28:03
Speaker 1: So I don't know that's what we have about Carl.
28:07
Speaker 2: But some not cool Carl.
28:09
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, this is a fucking thing.
28:13
Speaker 2: Yes it is.
28:13
Speaker 1: Wow. Someone was like, you need to make a T
28:16
Speaker 1: shirt of I'd wear that shit. But then you run
28:18
Speaker 1: into someone in real life that same Carl and they'll
28:20
Speaker 1: be like, what do you mean.
28:22
Speaker 2: You just look at them and just be like, not
28:23
Speaker 2: cool Carl, and you walk away.
28:24
Speaker 1: And you will leave the situation.
28:26
Speaker 2: This merch is going to happen. It's going to be
28:28
Speaker 2: a shirt that says not cool.
28:30
Speaker 1: It would be pretty funny. Okay, So another suspect would
28:33
Speaker 1: be Hans ass Assmen. Is that how you would say
28:38
Speaker 1: that asthmen? Asmen is assmen or asthmen. We have a
28:41
Speaker 1: funeral home with the same kid. I think we've mentioned
28:44
Speaker 1: this sort it's a terrible name for a funeral home,
28:46
Speaker 1: but Asman's Funeral Asman's Funeral Chapel, which actually was featured
28:52
Speaker 1: on Ellen at one point. Oh seriously.
28:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were going through some memes or something in
28:56
Speaker 2: a picture of it was brought up and she's like,
28:57
Speaker 2: Asman's Funeral Chapel taking care of you and the ter end.
29:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's quite the thing. So what actually
29:04
Speaker 1: they pronounced it ah Asman, But I think I don't
29:07
Speaker 1: know if Hans was Asthmen, I don't know. I'll probably
29:10
Speaker 1: go back and forth. Asmen's funnier.
29:13
Speaker 2: We don't necessarily want to just say, hey, let's talk
29:16
Speaker 2: about the funny things in true crime.
29:17
Speaker 1: Well, this is a suspect though, so we don't care
29:19
Speaker 1: about him.
29:20
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, we're not going to assume he's guilty.
29:23
Speaker 1: I suppose fine, I'll be nicer asthmen.
29:26
Speaker 2: I'll call him well, whatever it is.
29:29
Speaker 1: Okay. So Asmin was blonde. Okay, there's one thing.
29:33
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm so old. This is the guy.
29:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're changing your course here. So and he was
29:38
Speaker 1: thirty six years old, so fit the description the investigators had,
29:42
Speaker 1: and he also lived close to the lake. Something I
29:45
Speaker 1: haven't mentioned yet is that both Nils and oo Levy.
29:50
Speaker 1: I really hope I'm saying that right. The fourteen year
29:52
Speaker 1: old that was fishing went under hypnosis to see what
29:56
Speaker 1: they could remember, and they just described a man who
29:59
Speaker 1: had actually quite a resemblance to Asmen.
30:02
Speaker 2: You didn't tell me that they had hiten. Now, so
30:04
Speaker 2: there's more.
30:05
Speaker 1: There's a lot more information, Ben. You might have spoken
30:08
Speaker 1: way too fucking sick.
30:09
Speaker 2: I thought you had given all the information on the case,
30:11
Speaker 2: and now it was just information on the individuals to come.
30:14
Speaker 1: Okay, I like to sprinkle it all throughout you.
30:16
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, So I might change my mind then if
30:18
Speaker 2: more information.
30:19
Speaker 1: Actually you might so. Oddly enough, Asmen had gone to
30:24
Speaker 1: the Helsinki hospital the day after the murders, too, suffering
30:28
Speaker 1: from stomach complaints. It was noted that his fingernails were
30:33
Speaker 1: quite dirty like basically black, His clothes were covered in dirt,
30:37
Speaker 1: and there also seemed to be a reddish stain appearing
30:39
Speaker 1: on them that a lot of people thought was blood.
30:43
Speaker 1: Hospital staff reported that Asmin was drunk and acting nervous
30:47
Speaker 1: and aggressive. Place did question him, but dismissed him as
30:52
Speaker 1: a suspect, being that he was with his girlfriend and
30:54
Speaker 1: two other people in Helsinki overnight and the following morning.
30:59
Speaker 1: His clothes were apparently never tested for blood, which.
31:04
Speaker 2: Is terrible, okay, but he does have an alibi.
31:06
Speaker 1: Though he does have an alibi. So though Asman didn't
31:10
Speaker 1: necessarily have a motive to murder the teens, he has
31:14
Speaker 1: also been linked to other unsolved murders of people in Finland.
31:18
Speaker 2: Oh shit so the murder.
31:20
Speaker 1: Of seventeen year old Kulinki Sorry on the west coast
31:24
Speaker 1: of Finland in May nineteen fifty three, and a double
31:28
Speaker 1: killing of campers in North Karelia, Finland in July nineteen
31:33
Speaker 1: fifty nine. A series of popular books theorized that Asmen
31:38
Speaker 1: committed the Lake Boaha murders and these others, speculating that
31:43
Speaker 1: he may be a serial killer that's never been caught.
31:48
Speaker 1: He died in nineteen ninety eight. Now this is a
31:52
Speaker 1: side note, but I need to put it in his section.
31:55
Speaker 1: There's a photograph that surfaced from the funeral. It's a
31:59
Speaker 1: crowd of people, and within the crowd is a person
32:02
Speaker 1: with quite a resemblance to the drawing that was done
32:05
Speaker 1: up from Nils describing what they attack or look like
32:08
Speaker 1: while he was under his hypnosis from.
32:11
Speaker 2: The what funeral story?
32:12
Speaker 1: Exactly like the funeral of the teens. Okay, So the
32:15
Speaker 1: identity of this mysterious man does remain unknown, but some
32:20
Speaker 1: do believe that it looks like Asmin, and sources say
32:24
Speaker 1: Asmen wasn't in attendance at the funeral though, And I
32:27
Speaker 1: can show you this photo. So this is the photo
32:32
Speaker 1: of the man. It's actually like it looks like so weird.
32:35
Speaker 1: That's the funeral photo of the man.
32:38
Speaker 2: Okay, interesting, that's really hard to see. That's like a
32:42
Speaker 2: super old photo. And look it's very old.
32:45
Speaker 1: And then I'm going to show you a photo of
32:47
Speaker 1: the drawing that was done and then what Asmen looks like.
32:56
Speaker 2: That's that's pretty damn close.
32:59
Speaker 1: That's it's like a pretty resemblance there.
33:02
Speaker 2: Hey, there is, but to be fair, I mean it's
33:07
Speaker 2: not spot on. There are some features that are not
33:09
Speaker 2: quite there. Some features are there, but some aren't.
33:12
Speaker 1: It's mostly in the eyes, I think, really right, Yeah,
33:16
Speaker 1: so I don't know that's technically I guess another suspect
33:22
Speaker 1: really could be so and I mean someone probably would
33:25
Speaker 1: have recognized if Asmond was at the funeral, right, but
33:28
Speaker 1: the source says that he was not in attendance.
33:31
Speaker 2: But they don't know who that individual is.
33:34
Speaker 1: No, huh no, very interesting and he stands out so
33:38
Speaker 1: much in that picture it almost just seems weird. It's
33:41
Speaker 1: off to me for some reason, not that I think
33:43
Speaker 1: it's photoshopped or anything. It just seems random in there.
33:48
Speaker 1: This person that doesn't that looks kind of off.
33:51
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, he probably only really looks off because
33:53
Speaker 2: we're drawn to him, we're looking at him.
33:55
Speaker 1: I guess there you go, yeah, oh that's there's a
33:58
Speaker 1: circle around him. He looks funny.
33:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a circle around that person that looks off.
34:03
Speaker 1: But if you were just a look at the photo,
34:05
Speaker 1: you probably wouldn't have eve been appointed him O take exactly. Okay,
34:09
Speaker 1: so next suspect would be penty soanin there isn't a
34:15
Speaker 1: lot of information in regards to this suspect, other than
34:19
Speaker 1: he allegedly also confessed to the killings while he was
34:22
Speaker 1: serving time in prison for thefts. For thefts and violent crimes.
34:27
Speaker 1: He would have only been fifteen at the time of
34:30
Speaker 1: the murder, but was in the area at the time.
34:33
Speaker 1: The police again did not take his confession seriously, as
34:37
Speaker 1: he had a history of drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness,
34:40
Speaker 1: and psychosis so was seen to be unreliable. He did
34:44
Speaker 1: hang himself in nineteen sixty nine while being transported between prisons.
34:51
Speaker 2: So that's all they have on him though, just that
34:53
Speaker 2: he confessed at one point.
34:56
Speaker 1: Which people do false confess all the time when they
34:58
Speaker 1: do don't really understand. But yeah, but then I mean
35:01
Speaker 1: at the time of that murder, he was fifteen. Yeah,
35:04
Speaker 1: so like two there was two eighteen year olds and
35:07
Speaker 1: two fifteen year old girls. Like I can't see him.
35:10
Speaker 1: I mean, grant, I guess they would have been stuck
35:12
Speaker 1: in that tent.
35:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't let the fifteen year old age get to you.
35:18
Speaker 1: Two. This is just like I never want to go
35:20
Speaker 1: tenting again. I feel like that's horrific, Like you would
35:23
Speaker 1: have no chance, no chance I don't think not necessari Wow,
35:28
Speaker 1: it'd be pretty to get out of that alive, Nils did.
35:32
Speaker 1: But okay, so last, but not certainly least would be
35:37
Speaker 1: our last suspect. And do you have any guesses?
35:39
Speaker 2: Is it some vagrant dude?
35:41
Speaker 1: I think you should be able to guess this one?
35:44
Speaker 2: Is it Nils himself?
35:46
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, that's literally my next nine Nills himself, He
35:50
Speaker 1: said it so end. He was actually arrested in two
35:55
Speaker 1: thousand and four, so forty four years after the murders.
35:59
Speaker 2: Oh.
36:00
Speaker 1: At the time, he was married with two children, living
36:03
Speaker 1: in a living a quiet life, and he was working
36:05
Speaker 1: as a bus driver. It was announced that they had
36:08
Speaker 1: re examined the tent and other surviving evidence using modern
36:12
Speaker 1: forensic techniques, and that based on the new forensic analysis,
36:17
Speaker 1: they declared the case solved, with the sole survivor, Nils,
36:21
Speaker 1: now aged sixty two, being responsible for the murders. Police
36:25
Speaker 1: and the prosecution claimed that Nils had killed his best
36:28
Speaker 1: friend Seppo and the two girls using rocks and a knife.
36:32
Speaker 1: Among one of the missing items from the crime scene
36:34
Speaker 1: was actually Sepel's knife, which they believed could have been
36:39
Speaker 1: the murder weapon. But then also like, how do they
36:42
Speaker 1: know that he didn't just maybe forget it or something.
36:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't exactly.
36:46
Speaker 1: So they stated that his motive was sexual jealousy, that
36:51
Speaker 1: he'd been in a state of rage over Mila, and
36:54
Speaker 1: that his broken jaw was the result of a fight
36:56
Speaker 1: he got with Seppel over the girls. Being that as
37:00
Speaker 1: his girlfriend, Mila suffered the most significant injuries, this could
37:04
Speaker 1: make sense, being that the attack maybe was personal.
37:09
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think so. This is one of
37:11
Speaker 2: the farthest things from the truth in my mind. But
37:13
Speaker 2: keep going, I'll explain.
37:14
Speaker 1: Why Nils's trials started on August fourth, two thousand and five.
37:20
Speaker 1: A key exhibit exhibit in the prosecution's case was Nil's shoes,
37:24
Speaker 1: which showed blood from the three murdered victims, but not
37:28
Speaker 1: a single drop of his own blood. I think it
37:31
Speaker 1: was initially believed that the killer had worn Nil's shoes
37:35
Speaker 1: or something and then hidden them, since they were found
37:39
Speaker 1: five hundred yards away from the tent, which is sort
37:42
Speaker 1: of odd. When Nils was found, he was on top
37:45
Speaker 1: of the tent bare foot. With this new development, the
37:49
Speaker 1: prosecution was saying that Nils Nil's injuries must have occurred
37:54
Speaker 1: at a different time than the attacks of the others
37:57
Speaker 1: and that because of this, Nils must have committed the murders,
38:01
Speaker 1: faked the theft of missing items by hiding them, further
38:05
Speaker 1: injured himself, and then went back to the tent where,
38:09
Speaker 1: now barefoot, he pretended to be unconscious. You're just like
38:15
Speaker 1: staring at me like I'm saying something completely ridiculous.
38:19
Speaker 2: No, that there's some weight to this. I'm just listening.
38:22
Speaker 2: Is that it? Or is now?
38:23
Speaker 1: Because now there's like the defense.
38:25
Speaker 2: Okay, let's hear it.
38:27
Speaker 1: So Nil's defense lawyer argued that the murders were the
38:31
Speaker 1: work of someone from the outside and that Nils would
38:34
Speaker 1: have been incapable of killing three people given the extent
38:38
Speaker 1: of his own injuries. So to refresh your memory, his
38:42
Speaker 1: injuries consisted of a broken jaw, head wound, concussion, and
38:46
Speaker 1: a deep gash to his face. The lawyer mentioned they
38:50
Speaker 1: were also too severe to have been self inflicted, because
38:53
Speaker 1: that was another thing. Maybe he just self inflicted his injuries.
38:57
Speaker 1: They said he was in the tent with the others
39:00
Speaker 1: when an unknown person approached, cut the tent ropes, causing
39:03
Speaker 1: it to collapse, and then began attacking them through the
39:06
Speaker 1: fabric as they lay trapped. They stated that traces of
39:09
Speaker 1: Nil's blood was found inside the tent and that he
39:12
Speaker 1: was a victim along with the others.
39:16
Speaker 2: Okay, am I good to go now? Okay, so there
39:22
Speaker 2: is some possibility of that being the case, but I
39:26
Speaker 2: think it's very very slim, and I'm going to tell
39:28
Speaker 2: you the main reason why I think this is not
39:31
Speaker 2: the possibility. So they say that he had a broken job, correct, correct,
39:36
Speaker 2: and then among that he had things that concussion, gash
39:39
Speaker 2: in his face, that sort of thing. Yeah, So the
39:41
Speaker 2: theory for it being him as the murderer, he would
39:44
Speaker 2: have had to have gotten in a fight over the
39:45
Speaker 2: jealous lover the situation in right. Yeah, so okay, he
39:50
Speaker 2: got in a fight at some point, got his job broken.
39:52
Speaker 2: This would have most likely have had to have happened
39:55
Speaker 2: befour Otherwise it doesn't make sense. And if it does,
40:00
Speaker 2: does happen before, again, it doesn't make sense. So you're
40:02
Speaker 2: telling me either A they got in a fight while
40:05
Speaker 2: everyone is inside the tent and broke his jaw and
40:08
Speaker 2: he manages to kill everybody and then fakes the scene
40:12
Speaker 2: by cutting the strings and everything afterwards not gonna happen.
40:15
Speaker 2: That just does not make sense or scenario B, they
40:18
Speaker 2: get in a fight prior to his jaw is broken,
40:21
Speaker 2: and then everyone goes and sleeps in the tent, all
40:24
Speaker 2: cuddled up together, and he is left outside and then
40:27
Speaker 2: attacks them when he most likely has a concussion or
40:30
Speaker 2: something too on top of it. Yeah, so they're all
40:33
Speaker 2: going to just cuddle up and be okay with him
40:35
Speaker 2: outside in a broken jaw, and then he's the attacker.
40:38
Speaker 2: I don't think so well.
40:39
Speaker 1: I mean, in one article too stated that his feet
40:42
Speaker 1: weren't dirty, so he's like running around hiding shit all
40:45
Speaker 1: over the place like I just or like would Seppo
40:48
Speaker 1: not have had like I mean, I guess Seppel could
40:50
Speaker 1: have got an injury to his hand if he had
40:53
Speaker 1: punched Nils right, but he could have got an injury
40:56
Speaker 1: to his hand during the actual attack too.
40:59
Speaker 2: It not make sense to me one iota.
41:02
Speaker 1: It does seem odd though that his shoes. The shoe
41:05
Speaker 1: situation does seem like a bit odd to me. It does,
41:08
Speaker 1: But I mean, someone murdering all these teens like this,
41:13
Speaker 1: I'm sure isn't quite all there and Gosh knows what
41:16
Speaker 1: they're doing, right mm.
41:17
Speaker 2: Hmm, So sorry there was blood foulntain his shoes.
41:21
Speaker 1: The shoe, Yeah, his shoes had all three of victims blood,
41:24
Speaker 1: but not on his own, gotcha.
41:25
Speaker 2: Okay, so what about this is a theory because he
41:30
Speaker 2: was the one out fishing, right, No? No, oh, he wasn't.
41:35
Speaker 2: Oh okay.
41:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, But then some people say there were some people
41:40
Speaker 1: that speculated too that maybe like Nils was trying to
41:43
Speaker 1: get like his girlfriend to have sex with him or whatever,
41:46
Speaker 1: and she didn't want to, and then Seppo had to
41:49
Speaker 1: like intervene, And so I don't know, I mean, no
41:53
Speaker 1: one's really gonna know what exactly happened.
41:56
Speaker 2: No, but I don't think it was one of the
41:58
Speaker 2: kids themselves. I don't that one of them is responsible
42:01
Speaker 2: for this. I think it is an outside source.
42:03
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, to all of a sudden just have that
42:05
Speaker 1: much aggression when you haven't really had any signs of
42:09
Speaker 1: that prior to does seem a lot. I mean, he
42:11
Speaker 1: was drinking and stuff, but I mean that I'm sure
42:13
Speaker 1: that wasn't the first time he was drinking.
42:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's some things that line up too much
42:19
Speaker 2: with Carl for it to be one of the kids.
42:22
Speaker 1: For You're still team Carl.
42:24
Speaker 2: I am still team Carl, but I'm not saying for
42:27
Speaker 2: sure it's Carl. Now, what I'm saying is that these
42:29
Speaker 2: kids were not from the area, right, because everyone said
42:32
Speaker 2: no one from the area would camp there because they
42:34
Speaker 2: know about Carl.
42:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they weren't that far away, like I think
42:37
Speaker 1: they said that the drive took them half an hour
42:39
Speaker 1: or so.
42:39
Speaker 2: Okay, but yes, it's not their specific areas. They're not
42:42
Speaker 2: necessarily familiar with the area because if they were, they
42:45
Speaker 2: wouldn't camp there yea.
42:46
Speaker 1: And I don't think they had been there much prior
42:48
Speaker 1: to maybe once just to check it out. I think
42:50
Speaker 1: was all.
42:51
Speaker 2: So if they don't know this information, they don't know
42:54
Speaker 2: things about like cutting the tent strings for example, Yes,
42:57
Speaker 2: someone who's setting up this scene to make it look
43:01
Speaker 2: like it was someone else who did it. Yeah, they
43:03
Speaker 2: would cut the ten strings to make it look like
43:05
Speaker 2: Carl did it if they knew he didn't know, why
43:07
Speaker 2: would he do something so specific? Then?
43:09
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, And I mean they did have that encounter
43:13
Speaker 1: with Carl early on, right, so I mean maybe they
43:16
Speaker 1: did something that pissed him off or something. Right.
43:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still team Carl, but I'm not saying it
43:22
Speaker 2: was just Carl. I think he might have been in
43:24
Speaker 2: it with the Asthmin gay. I think they might have
43:26
Speaker 2: both done it. Maybe it was an accumulation. Maybe the
43:30
Speaker 2: one Asmin dude was spying on or whatever and saw
43:33
Speaker 2: Carl come over and cut the ten strings, run away laughing,
43:37
Speaker 2: and then Asmon was just like, I'm going to just
43:39
Speaker 2: finish the job.
43:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, but as serial killer, that wouldn't be that fun
43:44
Speaker 1: for him.
43:44
Speaker 2: Why not, because now it's going to be pinned on
43:47
Speaker 2: the other guy who already cut the strings, I guess.
43:49
Speaker 2: And then Carl could have been in a drunken stupor
43:52
Speaker 2: and woke up the next morning and saw it they
43:53
Speaker 2: were dead, and he's like, what the fuck did I
43:54
Speaker 2: do last night? I killed these kids?
43:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, he could have legitimately believed that he did. I
44:01
Speaker 1: don't know. Holy heck.
44:03
Speaker 2: Now that is my theory. Carl cut the ten strings,
44:07
Speaker 2: did his normal thing whatever, and then someone Asmin jumped
44:11
Speaker 2: on the opportunity, and then Carl believed he must have
44:14
Speaker 2: done it because what else would have happened. Yeah, that's
44:18
Speaker 2: my theory. It was it was the two of them.
44:20
Speaker 2: Maybe they were working together and it was planned, but
44:23
Speaker 2: maybe it was just the happenstance that that worked out.
44:26
Speaker 2: That way.
44:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, Now, like my brain, I'm just like I
44:30
Speaker 1: don't know I was. I'm not one hundred percent sure
44:33
Speaker 1: that it wasn't Nils, to be honest, but I more
44:35
Speaker 1: so think that it wasn't him. But the Carl does
44:40
Speaker 1: make it makes sense, but it doesn't because, like I to,
44:45
Speaker 1: just like he kind of just like teased people more
44:47
Speaker 1: so like in an asshole way. He teased them, but
44:50
Speaker 1: he never had, like I don't know, just to tease
44:52
Speaker 1: someone and then go to that aggression. It's just like night.
44:55
Speaker 2: Day, which is why I think he might have just
44:59
Speaker 2: cut the ten strings right way. Then the other guy
45:00
Speaker 2: took care of it, and yeah, Carl was like, what
45:03
Speaker 2: the fuck did I do?
45:03
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, because that other guy had murdered other
45:06
Speaker 1: campers at one point in time.
45:08
Speaker 2: So that's my theory.
45:10
Speaker 1: Okay. So in October seventh, two thousand and five, Nils
45:14
Speaker 1: was acquitted of all charges on the grounds that the
45:17
Speaker 1: prosecution evidence was inconclusive. They failed to show an appropriate
45:22
Speaker 1: motive for such an extreme crime, and given so much
45:26
Speaker 1: time had passed, the facts now seemed like impossible. He
45:30
Speaker 1: was awarded forty four nine hundred yuros. So about fifty
45:34
Speaker 1: eight thousand USD in damages for the mental suffering mental suffering,
45:39
Speaker 1: and was in the way that he was treated by
45:41
Speaker 1: the police in the media. If he didn't do it,
45:44
Speaker 1: it sure seems shitty to survive something so brutal that
45:48
Speaker 1: I'm sure you struggle with on a daily basis and
45:51
Speaker 1: then get blamed for it and have your name drug
45:53
Speaker 1: through the mud.
45:54
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think if he did do it, though
45:57
Speaker 2: me personally not saying he didn't, but I think there's
46:00
Speaker 2: just a very very small chance it was him. If
46:02
Speaker 2: he did do it, he is very lucky the police
46:04
Speaker 2: watched that scene.
46:06
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, anyone that did this is very lucky.
46:10
Speaker 2: Yep. So there's one more thing that doesn't add up
46:13
Speaker 2: to me with him though, because he had his head
46:15
Speaker 2: hit with a rock, presumably he had a concussion, right, Yeah,
46:18
Speaker 2: So he would have either had to have run around
46:21
Speaker 2: and hit all this stuff prior to and then hit
46:24
Speaker 2: his head with a rock and had the concussion and
46:26
Speaker 2: just lay there so they would have been able to
46:28
Speaker 2: find the rock rape beside him, or he hit him
46:30
Speaker 2: how self in the head with the rock and then
46:33
Speaker 2: ran around and did all this stuff, which is like
46:36
Speaker 2: not very plausible for them with a head injury.
46:39
Speaker 1: And then I mean, if he was just running around
46:42
Speaker 1: hiding all this stuff, I feel like some of the
46:44
Speaker 1: things would have been found.
46:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, he probably wouldn't have been running that far.
46:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, and considering none of those items were found, that's
46:52
Speaker 1: just very odd.
46:53
Speaker 2: Yeah.
46:53
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean I feel like someone had to
46:56
Speaker 1: physically have taken them from the site.
46:58
Speaker 2: I agree.
46:59
Speaker 1: So the spot where the three finished teams were brutally
47:03
Speaker 1: murdered is still a campground today with the legend of
47:07
Speaker 1: the Botom murderer fearing the generation. Since being that this
47:11
Speaker 1: case is over sixty years old, it's unlikely you'll ever
47:14
Speaker 1: get solved. The perpetrator is most likely of old age
47:18
Speaker 1: or already deceased.
47:21
Speaker 2: Damn, that is a wild case. My mind is going
47:24
Speaker 2: to mile a minute.
47:25
Speaker 1: That case is also very much so compared often to
47:29
Speaker 1: the one, the very first one.
47:31
Speaker 2: We did Diotlive Pass.
47:32
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's like a little bit similar and well
47:35
Speaker 1: it's reminiscent of the tent right, Yeah, and that it's
47:39
Speaker 1: kind of older, and it doesn't seem like there's any
47:43
Speaker 1: likelihood that it's going to get solved, But you know,
47:45
Speaker 1: you never know, you never know.
47:47
Speaker 2: Well, there is a case known as the American version
47:50
Speaker 2: of the diatlot past.
47:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, you had mentioned that to media.
47:52
Speaker 2: The day, and I think I'm going to be doing
47:54
Speaker 2: that case here pretty quick. We've had it recommended to
47:56
Speaker 2: us a few times, so I think it's going to
47:59
Speaker 2: be coming down the pipe soon. I don't know how soon,
48:01
Speaker 2: but it will be one that I cover.
48:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there we go.
48:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, well done. That was definitely a case that is
48:08
Speaker 2: usually up my alley. I know, unexpected for you to
48:10
Speaker 2: cover it.
48:11
Speaker 1: Well, it was supposed to be your week, So I
48:12
Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonna be ben.
48:13
Speaker 2: It was supposed to be my week. What the hell?
48:15
Speaker 1: Well, I mean doing the case, So I was like,
48:16
Speaker 1: I want to just be men today.
48:18
Speaker 2: Was it supposed to be my week?
48:19
Speaker 1: I think so, But that's okay.
48:21
Speaker 2: I just I just did the Patreon episode.
48:23
Speaker 1: Though you have you have definitely got me out of
48:27
Speaker 1: thick water sometimes.
48:28
Speaker 2: So yeah, so I do appreciate it. And speaking of
48:31
Speaker 2: episodes over on Patreon, if you want to sign up
48:33
Speaker 2: on Patreon get those exclusive episodes that drop the last
48:36
Speaker 2: day of every month. You can head over there. You
48:38
Speaker 2: can get some behind the scenes you can take part
48:40
Speaker 2: in that little cool contest for running there too.
48:42
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, we just dropped one on there that you
48:44
Speaker 1: that you did, and I think we only had hinted
48:46
Speaker 1: at that. So do you want to say what it was?
48:49
Speaker 2: I can't remember what it was? What was it? Shit?
48:53
Speaker 2: What was it? I literally can't remember. I'm blanking. My
48:56
Speaker 2: mind has been everywhere with trying to get ready for
48:58
Speaker 2: this trip. Oh what was it? Do you remember? No,
49:02
Speaker 2: you don't remember either. How can you be giving me
49:04
Speaker 2: that much shit? Life of True Crime podcast? I don't remember. Yeah, well,
49:10
Speaker 2: we go through so many cases.
49:12
Speaker 1: You wouldn't want us detecting or being detectives on a case.
49:15
Speaker 2: Apparently, no kidding, we would watch that scene a heartbeat.
49:19
Speaker 2: Holy Anyways, the Patreon Oh well, that's right. It was
49:23
Speaker 2: Stephen Melkie the Blindfolded Death.
49:25
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, yeah, that was yeah.
49:28
Speaker 2: So if you want to go hear that episode, we
49:30
Speaker 2: just dropped it the other day. So, but if you don't,
49:32
Speaker 2: if you don't want to stand up for Patreon, that's
49:33
Speaker 2: totally cool. We appreciate you being here all the same.
49:36
Speaker 2: But if you do want to check out some other
49:37
Speaker 2: links all there in the description of this podcast, including
49:40
Speaker 2: Patreon website merch you name it, it's all down below.
49:44
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well well done in today's episode. That was
49:46
Speaker 2: awesome and we'll make sure that we see you guys
49:49
Speaker 2: here coming soon with some more true crime coming down
49:51
Speaker 2: the pipe. There we go, and of course, as always,
49:54
Speaker 2: stay wicked.