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Transcript

Hamster Book Club - Ten Little Aliens by Stephen Cole (featuring Luke Sims-Jenkins & Andrew Batty) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:01
  The TARDIS doors open with the usual penetrating hum and with
• 0:05
  the added beeping of some device that was depressurizing the
• 0:09
  control room. Ben felt a bit of a prat in his
• 0:13
  new astronaut gear. It was more like a wet suit than
• 0:16
  a space suit and made from a dull green quilted material
• 0:19
  which felt a little too snug for comfort in all the wrong areas.
• 0:24
  The worst of it was the headgear, like looking out from
• 0:27
  a crystal ball. How do I look?
• 0:30
  Polly's voice crackled in his ears over the suit's
• 0:33
  communicators. Ben turned and whistled at the
• 0:36
  sight of Polly in her skin tight daffodil yellow suit.
• 0:40
  Let's just say I hope this bleeding goldfish bowl don't
• 0:43
  steam up easily. Come along you 2.
• 0:46
  Came the doctor's voice disapprovingly.
• 0:49
  We don't know quite what's out there, so stay close to me.
• 0:53
  So saying, he led the way out of the ship, fussing and pulling
• 0:56
  his own space suit, which was dark blue.
• 1:00
  It was hard to believe he had his usual clones on.
• 1:02
  Beneath the thermal material, his body looked thin and wasted,
• 1:06
  and his head disproportionately big through the glass helmet.
• 1:09
  As a result, the old boy really did look like a Buzzard now.
• 1:14
  Ben and Polly followed him out, then the Doctor closed the
• 1:17
  doors. Don't lock them, Doctor, you
• 1:21
  never know, we might need to get back inside in an hurry.
• 1:24
  The Doctor nodded vaguely. For a few seconds the blackness
• 1:28
  was absolute dark. Isn't it?
• 1:31
  Said Polly. He felt her lightly grip his arm
• 1:34
  and gave her hand a comforting squeeze he hoped she could feel
• 1:38
  through her quilted gloves. Then the Doctor flicked on his
• 1:42
  torch. The beam revealed small snatches
• 1:45
  of the cavernous room they stood in, and from them Ben tried to
• 1:49
  build a picture of their surroundings.
• 1:51
  The room, or cave or whatever it was, was 5 sided.
• 1:55
  The walls were built from layers and layers of dark stone and
• 1:59
  scaled by ornate metal trellises that gleamed like gold.
• 2:04
  Above these, what looked to be ducting reached right around the
• 2:07
  room, at the point where the wall sloped up to the high
• 2:09
  arched ceiling. Slabs of glass had been set into
• 2:13
  the roof, hundreds of them, and they winked and signalled back
• 2:17
  at the Doctor whenever he shone his torch in their direction.
• 2:20
  Closer to ground level, banks of weird looking machinery squatted
• 2:24
  beneath the trellises. Symbols carved in the slate
• 2:28
  above presumably denoted the function of each set of controls
• 2:31
  in whatever language they spoke here.
• 2:34
  Fascinating, said the Doctor fervently.
• 2:36
  The functionality of a control room, but with the trappings of
• 2:40
  a shrine. Ben was considering the
• 2:43
  ramifications of this when the Doctor's torch light fell on a
• 2:46
  cowled shape hunched over a console right beside them,
• 2:50
  overlooked until now by the far stretching beam.
• 2:54
  He felt Polly's grip on his arm tighten, and her distorted
• 2:57
  scream in his ears nearly deafened him.
• 3:00
  Ben took a few steps back instinctively.
• 3:03
  A hideous alien face was staring out at him from under the cowl.
• 3:07
  It's eyes were wide like a fish's unseeing.
• 3:11
  It was lying in a mass of dried blood.
• 3:19
  Hamster book club the Doctor Who novel review podcast with Joe
• 3:24
  Ford, Andrew Batty and Luke Sims Jenkins 10 little aliens by
• 3:34
  Stephen Cole. Hello everyone and welcome to
• 3:50
  Hamster Book Club. My name is Luke a Co host
• 3:53
  sometimes of Hamster book club and with me is another Co host
• 3:58
  that's Mr. Andrew and the host that's Mr. Joe.
• 4:03
  Say hello. I thought hello I don't consider
• 4:06
  myself the host anymore when you 2 are on it's like 3 Co hosts
• 4:09
  all together now. Do we all get a special badge?
• 4:14
  What would it special be in the operative 1?
• 4:19
  You know you know when you go to.
• 4:20
  Those sort of meetings and they you have to write your name
• 4:23
  massive. On like a I'll start to say a
• 4:26
  terrible word, then a special badge and then you stick it on
• 4:29
  you. And I never forget I went on the
• 4:30
  bus after one of those meetings one time and everyone.
• 4:33
  'S going Hello Joe. What is Joe?
• 4:36
  All right, so yes, it's Hamster book club time, and we're here
• 4:39
  to talk about a book that I didn't bring into this room with
• 4:42
  me, but I promise I read it and took notes on it and everything.
• 4:45
  It is Stephen Cole's 10 Little Aliens.
• 4:49
  Steve Cole last night, not Steve Lyons.
• 4:51
  Steve Cole. Yes, it's it's yeah, we did
• 4:54
  Steve Cole before the Lions. Oh, man.
• 4:56
  That's not a bad thing. By the way.
• 4:57
  We'll go. There.
• 4:59
  We all read the reprint of it as well, didn't we?
• 5:02
  I did. Somehow it's miraculously 300
• 5:05
  pages now, even though my original copy is only 280 pages.
• 5:09
  How is that I like because the original books print was
• 5:14
  probably microscopic like you. Just wait until they decide to
• 5:17
  reprint the Infinity Doctors or Adventurous Henrietta Henrietta
• 5:20
  St. And there you go, you got 500
• 5:22
  pages in a. 500, yeah. That font is tiny.
• 5:28
  Not only, but not only with that book, right?
• 5:30
  That version of 10 Little Aliens.
• 5:32
  Not only is it long a higher page count, it's also bigger.
• 5:37
  I thought though, you know what? I can't believe I'm.
• 5:39
  Going to say this about book, but it's sort of read really
• 5:41
  nicely like this as a bigger book, you know, with this nice
• 5:45
  firm cover. Am I talking crazy now?
• 5:50
  They're really nice, these 50th anniversary ones.
• 5:53
  I think the kind of the larger format and the bigger point
• 5:56
  size. And, you know, the BBC books,
• 5:59
  they always felt like they were a little bit, like, badly
• 6:01
  printed on the actual pages. The text was always, like,
• 6:03
  really blocky. Yeah.
• 6:04
  Whereas this is all light and nice and easy to follow.
• 6:07
  Did you ever have the plastic come off the the front cover?
• 6:10
  Because you know, there was like a plastic bit over the top and
• 6:13
  I've some, some of my corners the plastic started running off.
• 6:16
  No, I was always very careful with my although some of my new
• 6:20
  adventures are falling apart, like there.
• 6:22
  You go. That's the one.
• 6:24
  Yeah, the the glue in those is absolute crap.
• 6:26
  Like all the covers are falling off my.
• 6:29
  My virgin someone on someone on eBay wanted like 50 bucks for
• 6:32
  sleepy and I'm like man I used to have a copy of that book that
• 6:35
  glue did not hold. I'm not paying $50.00 for that.
• 6:39
  I got so excited yesterday. Andrew and I was in a second
• 6:42
  hand bookshop in town and amazingly he knew the way there.
• 6:46
  I'd forgotten. And when we were in there, I
• 6:49
  found a new adventure for 2 LB The Dimension.
• 6:51
  Riders. I was so excited until I got
• 6:54
  home and realized I. Already had it on the shelf.
• 6:58
  So if anyone's looking for a copy of the Dimension Riders,
• 7:00
  there's one going all right, unless they're overseas, because
• 7:02
  the postage is extortionate. You can't have it like.
• 7:09
  Do you need it? No, I think I have that and this
• 7:13
  is it a sequel Infinite Requiem or something.
• 7:16
  I got that as well. I don't know why I have two both
• 7:19
  Daniel Blythe New adventures considering I have read them and
• 7:22
  I have no memory of what's inside either of them so.
• 7:26
  But for some reason I like them enough to rebuy them I guess.
• 7:29
  Coming to a book club near you? Well, coming in.
• 7:33
  Well, tell us, what's our icebreaker question today?
• 7:36
  Not that we really need to break the ice anymore, but.
• 7:40
  Our icebreaker question that I got not too long ago at all
• 7:44
  because I just woke up and I'm not stalling so I can find it.
• 7:48
  Yeah, you are. Don't worry, I'll start.
• 7:51
  Don't worry. Would you like some sort of
• 7:54
  interim music? Yes, the duelling of the fights,
• 7:59
  but no I found. It all.
• 8:05
  Right. So the question is which author
• 8:07
  would you like to be seeing what?
• 8:09
  What book author would you like to see write ATV story is pretty
• 8:13
  much the question. Well, what, what and where did
• 8:15
  that question come from? It came from Mr. Mark Cockran
• 8:20
  who asked us the question in the little group chat we got.
• 8:24
  Well, let's do a. Little.
• 8:24
  Round Robin of our answers and then I've got answers from both
• 8:29
  Mark Cockrum and John Arnold, who's going to be joining us
• 8:32
  shortly on a on another book club episode.
• 8:34
  So let's let's squish over to Andrew first.
• 8:37
  And see which which book author he'd like Ryan.
• 8:40
  For the TV. Well, my obvious answer, sort of
• 8:45
  my go to answer for everything is Paul Mars.
• 8:48
  I would love to see Paul Mars from the TV series.
• 8:51
  What would that look like? Who knows, You know, I mean, I
• 8:54
  think I'd like to see him write for any TV stuff.
• 8:56
  I think he's got such a kind of visual imagination.
• 9:00
  And I think, I think there has been talk before of the Brenda
• 9:04
  and Effie series maybe being optioned for TV, but I guess
• 9:07
  it's probably one of those things that just sort of
• 9:09
  languishes in development. But yeah, I think he's got such
• 9:14
  a unique voice and would really bring something different to TV.
• 9:20
  And I think, you know, Iris Wild time is a character who is
• 9:23
  crying out to be to be on the TVI think that would be amazing.
• 9:27
  And that, you know, you could you could bring it back multiple
• 9:29
  times with different Iris each time with different mad
• 9:33
  character actresses in a bus and yeah, it would be brilliant.
• 9:38
  Oh. Man, I'll be there for that.
• 9:41
  All bars for show rather. We can take the money from the
• 9:45
  War of the Land in the Sea and hand it to Paul Mars to give us
• 9:49
  some Irish real time adventures as you.
• 9:51
  Just know though, it would be like nothing like we've ever
• 9:53
  seen before from Doctor Who, wouldn't it?
• 9:56
  Yeah, maybe from Big Finish or books, because we've done those,
• 9:58
  but it would be something totally original and all the
• 10:01
  fans would absolutely hate it. All the hat fans hate
• 10:06
  everything, so why not? That's a good point.
• 10:08
  That is a good point. Or what about you though, Luke?
• 10:12
  I I could go for the obvious route of the gentleman who did
• 10:15
  kick start Lucy Miller's adventures.
• 10:18
  He was really good at writing That was Steve Lyons, but I'm
• 10:23
  going to go for the writer that I'm I'm surprised hasn't written
• 10:26
  for it, but also not surprised, probably because like Moffat
• 10:30
  stolen mine. I'm.
• 10:31
  Totally stolen mine, I know it. Go on.
• 10:34
  Moffat would probably feel threatened and upstaged by this
• 10:37
  man because he does Tommy Windiness the best.
• 10:41
  It's Jonathan Morris. You bastard.
• 10:45
  Yeah, Jonathan Morris was my second choice.
• 10:47
  I'll have to pick up somebody else now.
• 10:52
  It's not just all right. Festival Death, yes tells that
• 10:56
  whole story backwards. You don't even have to remake
• 10:58
  that story. Just take the concept of the
• 11:00
  Doctor and his companion experiencing story backwards.
• 11:04
  Have you, have you not done that on the telly yet?
• 11:05
  You've taken so many ideas from the books of the team and the
• 11:08
  audios have. I think you've done that one
• 11:10
  yet. Yeah, more on that in this book
• 11:12
  later. Yeah, not only that, I feel like
• 11:17
  if you listen to a whole bunch of his audio stories, like
• 11:20
  sometimes have an epic quality. They're wild in terms of crazy
• 11:23
  ideas. And he takes, he often finds new
• 11:27
  ways of telling Tommy Wimey stories that are just perfect
• 11:32
  for the telly, I think. And he can write for pretty much
• 11:35
  any Doctor. The audios, I think he's written
• 11:38
  for all of them by now. Like, he just did a First Doctor
• 11:40
  story this year, Fugitive with the Daleks or something.
• 11:44
  And I really liked it. So I think it feel like it
• 11:47
  doesn't even matter what The Who, the Doctor or the companion
• 11:50
  is. Pretty sure he can bang out
• 11:52
  something really crazy. Yeah.
• 11:54
  You know how close Jonathan Morris got to write in for the
• 11:58
  TV? Yeah, it was on your your
• 12:02
  interview with him, wasn't it? It was literally on the list he
• 12:04
  said wasn't he? And he was the 3rd.
• 12:06
  Name on the list. And they trialled the first
• 12:09
  name, so it was all people that hadn't written TV before but had
• 12:12
  written Doctor Who books that he thought would be reliable.
• 12:15
  And it went so badly with the first name on that list.
• 12:18
  Who was that person we want to know?
• 12:20
  I don't. Know, I feel like, but you know,
• 12:27
  like these are all professional writers and like, I don't know,
• 12:31
  I feel like there's a lot of lip service given to that.
• 12:33
  Oh, they couldn't possibly write for this medium.
• 12:34
  It's so difficult writing for TVI don't really think that it
• 12:37
  is. I think there's just this kind
• 12:38
  of proprietorialness maybe, and this feeling that you can't get
• 12:44
  into the industry without having worked for it before, which
• 12:46
  maybe is me being naive, but it feels like, you know, it's not
• 12:50
  it's not this this unknown science that people can't do.
• 12:53
  Like, I feel like there's a bit of a bit of gatekeeping going on
• 12:56
  and I'd love to see some of the some of the amazing writers
• 12:59
  who've told amazing Doctor Who stories do that in a different
• 13:01
  medium. What about this is me for years
• 13:04
  asking why no one who writes any of the comics and seems to be
• 13:08
  able to find new ideas to do it for these old 7080 year old
• 13:11
  characters to write the movies? No, we'll just get movie
• 13:14
  writers. Who?
• 13:16
  Yeah. Scott graded with the 8th Doctor
• 13:19
  and the 10th Doctor comic strips.
• 13:22
  Scott Gray would have been amazing.
• 13:24
  Even Alan Barnes is absolutely full of ideas.
• 13:27
  Sorry, I don't mean to say even Alan Barnes.
• 13:28
  Like, that's a backhanded compliment there.
• 13:31
  It can be hit or miss. OK, so not Jonathan Morris.
• 13:35
  How annoying. Sorry.
• 13:38
  That. Well then there's only one
• 13:39
  choice, because this was my second choice and it would never
• 13:42
  happen. Because he's burnt so many
• 13:44
  bridges now and slagged on the series so much.
• 13:50
  But I would love, love, love. Lauren smiles.
• 13:53
  To have just one like Rob Shearman, A1 and out, you know,
• 13:57
  but like Dalek, to me, the best bloody episode you've ever seen.
• 14:02
  I did actually read that alternative library script that
• 14:07
  he wrote. Did I review to read that?
• 14:08
  I have read that. What did you think?
• 14:11
  I thought it was bloody. Awful, but you like his books,
• 14:16
  right? I like his books but that script
• 14:19
  was terrible and like completely unfilmful.
• 14:23
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he's ambitious.
• 14:26
  Yeah. It would need to be like a Day
• 14:27
  of the Doctor style budget, you know, or give him like a season
• 14:30
  like Flux to do. Just saying.
• 14:31
  Absolutely massive. You'd know one.
• 14:33
  Thing it would be absolutely packed with imagination and
• 14:37
  laughs I think as well. And he would get the regulars
• 14:40
  bang on too. So, OK, so we've got passing
• 14:43
  what? Happened now, Jonathan.
• 14:45
  Morris and Lawrence smiles right the next season at Top 2.
• 14:49
  I think what would happen, though, is that they'd tell
• 14:51
  Lauren. Florence smiles now.
• 14:53
  It's all right, man. We've got, we've got writers
• 14:55
  over here. And then they just, you know,
• 14:56
  take all the ideas from his script and put him in the next
• 14:59
  three seasons. Giselle Denny, age 25, visual
• 15:07
  black female. She rolls out of the slums of
• 15:10
  Paris too. Climbed through the ranks in
• 15:13
  Stella Infantry and things are still looking up for fantastic
• 15:17
  gymnasts. Giselle Denny, who has received
• 15:19
  0 demerit since starting Academy.
• 15:22
  She's out to go far, far out. Well, Andrew, will you do me a
• 15:33
  favour please? Will you read out Mark Cockrum's
• 15:37
  suggestion that's in the chat? And whilst you're looking for
• 15:40
  that, I'll read out John Arnold's So he thinks James Goss
• 15:46
  would be a good choice. He says he's always got a big
• 15:50
  idea at the heart of his story and they're always playful,
• 15:53
  witty and I wouldn't disagree with that at all.
• 15:56
  It would be sort of the closest we'd get to having a Douglas
• 15:59
  Adams style genius, right For Doctor Who, I think.
• 16:04
  I think you could bring the Horror as well because Ghost
• 16:06
  Walk still scares the shit out of me.
• 16:08
  That one even has Sasha Duan and Stephen Griffin.
• 16:13
  It is the bad he's like Griff is the bad he like so he can do fun
• 16:17
  and then if he wants to, James Goss can scare the shit out if
• 16:20
  he wants to. Is that a big finish?
• 16:22
  Yeah, yeah. Witch Doctor Davidson.
• 16:29
  We're not saying you're becoming predictable on this thing, Luke.
• 16:35
  Well. What is our much missed from our
• 16:38
  book club's friend Mark Cockrum have to say?
• 16:41
  Well, Mark says, I think it would be would be interesting,
• 16:45
  especially with a budget that could now do it justice, to see
• 16:48
  what Paul Mars, what his incredible imagination could
• 16:53
  bring to the series. So yeah, I wholeheartedly agree
• 16:56
  with that. Very similar to your choice.
• 17:01
  I was, I was humming up. I was like, oh, maybe I can't
• 17:03
  choose Paul Mars because because Mark picked him.
• 17:06
  But then I was going to pick Jonathan Morris, who would have
• 17:08
  been same as both of you. So yeah.
• 17:11
  So I do think with Lawrence Miles and with Paul Mars, you,
• 17:15
  you, you know what you'd get, but you'd know the tone of it.
• 17:18
  I could kind of predict the tone of what Paul Miles would bring
• 17:21
  to ATV, Doctor Who story and what, but Johnny Morris, I
• 17:25
  wouldn't have a clue. He's trying to sound at
• 17:26
  everything now. He's written about 500 big
• 17:28
  finished scripts and it's such a diverse range of genres.
• 17:33
  There aren't many conkers either.
• 17:34
  Like he's even guys. Oh.
• 17:36
  Great. Reliable.
• 17:37
  Yeah, I think so too. Except Luke Malloy doesn't think
• 17:40
  that. But you know, who cares what he
• 17:42
  thinks? That's always my theory.
• 17:45
  Like in my life, I think I've only met like one or two other
• 17:49
  Luke's that I mean like, all right, you're all right.
• 17:53
  For some reason me. You're by far the sexiest and
• 17:57
  the most the smartest as well, Luke.
• 17:59
  The mustachiest as well. Exactly.
• 18:02
  And the rest the wrestlingiest as well.
• 18:06
  Hey, here we go. That's all going to go on your
• 18:08
  badge. Your special badge.
• 18:11
  It's going to have the same same font size as Henry Eddis Street
• 18:14
  I guess. My badge.
• 18:16
  Yeah, people's eyes will be bleeding trying to read it.
• 18:20
  Adam Shade, also known as Shadow, Age 30.
• 18:26
  Visual. White male.
• 18:29
  You saw him shot down in flames just this very afternoon, but
• 18:33
  this shade ain't no shadow of his former self.
• 18:36
  Of course, that's not so hard when you consider he started
• 18:39
  active service as a royal escort back on dear old Mama Earth
• 18:43
  before going to war in US. Pan Galactic when delete after
• 18:47
  10 months in Medicare, but needs serious merits now if he wants
• 18:51
  to make the grade. Have a good war soldier.
• 18:59
  Well, OK, well, should we move on to 10 Little Aliens by
• 19:02
  Stephen Cole? I've got a question I want to
• 19:04
  ask both of you before we even start talking about the book
• 19:07
  because I don't know if any of us have ever mentioned Stephen
• 19:12
  Cole before on our book club episodes, and we've done 10 now.
• 19:18
  And that's very remiss given we've recommended between us
• 19:21
  collectively 30 books and I don't think anyone's recommended
• 19:25
  a Steve Cole 1 so. What do you think?
• 19:29
  Like, what do you think of Steve Cole as a writer?
• 19:32
  And no, actually, Andrew, did you recommend Timeless one time
• 19:36
  or was it you, Luke? We've.
• 19:39
  Talked about timeless I think. And as yet unpublished episode,
• 19:44
  you did mention the ancestor cell as well, and I won't say
• 19:47
  whether you went top or bottom with that.
• 19:51
  It could go either way, to be fair.
• 19:54
  So what do you think, Lou? What do you think of Steve Cole?
• 19:57
  Not as a person. I have no idea what he's like as
• 20:01
  a person. Well, my offer all thinks he's
• 20:04
  very sexy. But you know.
• 20:07
  Andrew was appalled. I wasn't appalled, I was just
• 20:12
  just surprised. I think he can do really great
• 20:16
  stuff sometimes and then stuff that's just good.
• 20:20
  Like I would say Vanishing Point isn't a terrible book, but it is
• 20:24
  the book set between like Earth World and Eater of Wasps.
• 20:28
  So it's not terrible, but it's it's it's it's a good book.
• 20:32
  But you know, either of whilst sooth.
• 20:34
  Well yeah, I know what I'd rather read so he can.
• 20:37
  Say about that book is it comes between two other books.
• 20:42
  I mean, that's every book, right?
• 20:44
  But he can surprise you with a book that's like, I remember
• 20:50
  picking up Timeless. I'm like, all right, this is at
• 20:52
  least going to be good. And by the time I finished it, I
• 20:54
  was like, all right, this guy can do some great books if he
• 20:58
  wants to. Like if I guess maybe I'll just
• 21:01
  engage with a little bit more or something like that.
• 21:03
  But I I think he can. I don't think he's written
• 21:07
  anything that shit that I've read.
• 21:09
  But he's either like, just it was good, solid in terms of his
• 21:14
  writing style or one or once or twice.
• 21:17
  He's he's great. Yeah.
• 21:19
  No offence to Mr. Cole. Andrew.
• 21:22
  Yeah, I think similar. I mean, I guess I he's one of
• 21:24
  those ones that I don't really have a sense of like what a
• 21:27
  Steve Cole book is. And I suppose that's because a
• 21:30
  lot of the books that he did for the 8th Doctor were sort of sort
• 21:34
  of tentpole books where it was because he was the the range
• 21:37
  editor and then was still kind of involved in the book series.
• 21:41
  I think he, you know, it was often those kind of filling in
• 21:44
  the key moments in the ARC, but then not the ones which sort of
• 21:48
  have become the go TOS for people.
• 21:50
  But yeah, Timeless is really good.
• 21:52
  I remember enjoying To the Slaughter when I read it back in
• 21:56
  the day. Couldn't tell you what it was
• 21:57
  about now, but I remember liking it.
• 22:00
  But I one that does stand out for me from him is one that he
• 22:07
  wrote as Tara Sam's back in the day.
• 22:11
  It's a short story and short trips called Glass, which is a
• 22:15
  really unusual story. It's kind of it's kind of like a
• 22:20
  dramatic monologue and the audio version is performed by Sophie
• 22:23
  Aldred on the cassette tape. And it's sort of like a normal
• 22:28
  woman who who's just works in a shop and gets sort of the, it's
• 22:34
  sort of a sequel to Sharda, like one of the one of the one of the
• 22:40
  sort of intelligences which is trapped in that severe kind of
• 22:42
  latches onto this woman. And it's just sort of told from
• 22:45
  her point of view of having this interaction with the doctor and
• 22:48
  Ramana and this, this creepy. It's, it's the very creepy
• 22:52
  story. And it's one of those ones which
• 22:54
  kind of it doesn't really have a, a happy ending.
• 22:57
  It's, it ends in quite a sort of bleak way.
• 23:00
  And yeah, I had the tape as a kid and that one was always one
• 23:03
  that kind of, yeah, creeped me out of it.
• 23:06
  So, yeah, yeah, so he has done one that I that I really enjoy.
• 23:13
  But so he's also the the fact that he was the kind of range
• 23:15
  editor for that early part of the books.
• 23:19
  He's also got like a massive legacy and kind of shaping that
• 23:22
  range and discovering authors like Paul Mars, giving authors a
• 23:28
  chance. He'd kind of submitted stuff for
• 23:30
  Virgin and that wasn't accepted by them and kind of taking the
• 23:34
  range in new direction. So, yeah, I think he's, he
• 23:38
  probably doesn't get the, doesn't get the appreciation
• 23:41
  that he deserves for all of that.
• 23:43
  Yeah. So it was.
• 23:44
  It was interesting to read one of his books for the book club.
• 23:47
  I always like, I prefer the latter half of the 8th octopus,
• 23:51
  the just enriches period because I feel as if they're on solid
• 23:55
  ground, then they kind of know what they're doing.
• 23:57
  They've got a staple of authors and they just run with it and
• 23:59
  they're ditching the continuity and doing original stories.
• 24:02
  But one thing I absolutely will say about Steve Carson, editor,
• 24:05
  is he reacts to what's not working.
• 24:09
  So those opening books of the 8th Doctor books, it was very
• 24:13
  hit and miss. And then I think he commissioned
• 24:15
  alien bodies and said, right, let's let's get this on track.
• 24:19
  And then there was a period there where Sam Jones was
• 24:21
  written in a very generic way and he brought in Theats and
• 24:25
  said, right, we're going to give you book fits this character.
• 24:29
  I know that you can absolutely, you know, buy into.
• 24:32
  And then he stepped up a gear again.
• 24:34
  I think I'm interference from interference through to the
• 24:37
  ancestor cell where you've got a really solid run of big science
• 24:42
  fiction books, very few misses in that period.
• 24:46
  Compassion, which was a really exciting idea.
• 24:48
  So suddenly you've got great regulars that you love reading,
• 24:51
  leading all the way up to either one of Andrews favorite or least
• 24:55
  favorite Doctor Who books, destroying Gallifrey at the end
• 24:58
  of that. So, you know, it's not my
• 25:00
  favorite period of the books, but I think I think he did steer
• 25:04
  it in the right direction. As for his individual books, I I
• 25:09
  forget how good a writer he is until I actually pick up a
• 25:13
  Steve, I say Steve Lyons, Steve Cole book.
• 25:16
  I really like 10 little aliens that we've read.
• 25:19
  I really like timeless. I really like the shadow in the
• 25:24
  glass that he did with. Justin Pictures.
• 25:29
  You don't like that one? I haven't.
• 25:30
  Read it. No.
• 25:30
  Oh, you were. Shaking your head, don't I that?
• 25:34
  That's a banger as well. But then like, I'm very
• 25:38
  uncertain about Michael Collier, his next door neighbour's work.
• 25:42
  You know, The Longest Day and the Tain.
• 25:45
  The Tain's probably the better of the two there.
• 25:46
  You're right, Vanishing Point is good, but it isn't great.
• 25:50
  Were you just *** at the word Tain?
• 25:52
  Yeah, my, you know, I'll be like, hey, Charity, look what I
• 25:59
  got in the mail. And she don't care.
• 26:01
  It's Doctor Who books. But you know, she'll she'll
• 26:03
  react, show you the front cover. Look at this.
• 26:05
  It's the first book with Fitz. And she's like, who the fuck is
• 26:07
  Fitz? She looks at the cover and she
• 26:10
  reads the tile and she's like. She goes I love you, honey, goes
• 26:16
  to get on the room and breathe. Yeah.
• 26:19
  Well, I do, and in fact I do. I find his Big Finish audios are
• 26:23
  usually good, but not great. I can't actually think of an
• 26:26
  absolutely outstanding 1 apart from the wormery because you've
• 26:30
  got Paul Miles in there as well, you know, bringing some magic.
• 26:33
  He. Does work well with other
• 26:34
  writers though, doesn't he? Not just.
• 26:37
  So yeah, I guess, I guess he did learn how to do that.
• 26:41
  But I I certainly think the one we're going to talk about today
• 26:44
  is one of his strongest in terms of ideas and in terms of
• 26:49
  structure. So maybe we should move on and
• 26:53
  talk about 10 little aliens. Stace Lindy, age 28, visual
• 27:00
  white female from humble beginning serving in little
• 27:04
  Europe with the luxe Dirigibles, the so-called Pauper fleet,
• 27:08
  Lindy rose out of troubled waters thanks to a scholarship
• 27:11
  to the 0GS. After five years combat in low
• 27:15
  grab environments, Lindy traded walking on air for dry land when
• 27:19
  she won an unheard of second scholarship to go to Elite.
• 27:26
  A title we are allowed to say. Now to your question before we
• 27:32
  even go and talk about the book. Are the 10 little aliens in this
• 27:35
  book the scur people that are stuck in time on this meteor?
• 27:41
  Or are the 10 little aliens the soldiers?
• 27:46
  Yes, it's a, it's a, it's a bit of both, isn't it?
• 27:50
  Because from what I understand, there's 10 aliens and they're
• 27:55
  going to kind of replace the 10 humans or something like that
• 28:00
  through this ritual stuff. By the way, I didn't think
• 28:03
  ritual sacrifices and shit would be in a Hartnell story and and
• 28:08
  work in said story. I was like, I'm here.
• 28:12
  I'm like, you get all this stuff and how's this going to work
• 28:15
  with the body Harnell? And then he turns up and it's
• 28:17
  fine. There's plenty in this loop that
• 28:20
  wouldn't appear in a William Harnell story that actually
• 28:23
  worked really well in the context of the book.
• 28:25
  Wait, are you guys Agatha Christie fans?
• 28:28
  I kind of know the answer with you Andrew, but.
• 28:30
  I've got to I want. To ask you for everyone else's
• 28:32
  purpose. Yes, I think I've recently
• 28:35
  become like in the last few years, an Agatha Christie fan.
• 28:38
  So yeah, I think I've watched a few of the Poirot's on TV before
• 28:42
  that, but then I kind of, I suppose it's sort of a lockdown
• 28:45
  thing. I kind of got into to reading
• 28:47
  more of her work. So, yeah, to have a a Doctor Who
• 28:50
  book that is so influenced by Christie was was, yeah, an
• 28:55
  interesting thing. Lou, you like Christie?
• 28:59
  Agatha Christie is a gigantic blind spot for me.
• 29:03
  I know. I know some things here and
• 29:05
  there. See the other giant blind spot?
• 29:08
  Everyone listening is The Avengers, and I'm sort of
• 29:12
  rectifying that now. I'm up to Series 2 episode like
• 29:16
  12 or something like that. So I haven't read it.
• 29:19
  Christy, I might have seen And Then There Were None, the old
• 29:24
  classic movie. Is that what that's called I
• 29:26
  think, or something like that? Absolutely what it's called,
• 29:29
  yes. Yeah, so I've seen a movie or
• 29:31
  two because I feel like it would be impossible to watch anything
• 29:37
  thriller or crime related and be completely unaware of anything
• 29:43
  or her kind of influence on all sorts of things.
• 29:46
  So I've I've I've pretty much felt her influence on the stuff,
• 29:49
  crime stuff I've enjoyed, but never really gone back to read
• 29:52
  the person who like originated a lot of this stuff probably
• 29:56
  should. You guys can give me some
• 29:58
  recommends I guess. Oh, loads.
• 30:00
  In fact, there's a bookshop in my town.
• 30:02
  You know, you might know that anyway, for another day.
• 30:05
  I did. I did think the whole's prose
• 30:09
  actually it marries Agatha Christie's prose in that
• 30:12
  actually it's quite simple. He he writes simple, to the
• 30:16
  point sentences and tells a complex story with that
• 30:20
  language. And that's exactly that's why I
• 30:23
  loved Agatha Christie was I could feel really smart, like an
• 30:26
  adult. Because I.
• 30:27
  Was reading these complicated, you know, highly plotted books?
• 30:31
  But actually reading the bloody thing was really, really easy.
• 30:35
  So, yeah, certainly in terms in terms of how he wrote the book,
• 30:39
  I think he's already matching Agatha Christie for Ryan's
• 30:43
  style, which worked really, really well.
• 30:45
  Well boys, where do you want to start with this?
• 30:48
  Well, I suppose sort of initial expectations of it.
• 30:52
  I was just very unsure of what where this was going to go,
• 30:57
  knowing that it was kind of Agatha Christie influenced, but
• 31:00
  also kind of like aliens and also William Hartnell, Doctor
• 31:06
  Who. It was just how are those things
• 31:10
  going to mesh together and work in any way?
• 31:14
  And I think it took me a while to get into it because the
• 31:17
  first, I guess third of the book is very much that kind of
• 31:21
  aliens, space marines, lots of soldiers shouting at each other
• 31:27
  and killing things, which wasn't that into.
• 31:31
  But then the kind of after the Doctor and Polly arrive and they
• 31:36
  discover more of this asteroid that they're stranded on, that's
• 31:40
  when the Agatha Christie stuff starts kind of coming into the
• 31:42
  mix, and that's when I started engaging with it more.
• 31:46
  I thought the in that in those opening chapters, no one's very
• 31:51
  nice, like no one's very likeable in this Army unit.
• 31:54
  So I'm like oh, do I give a shit if anyone dies on this asteroid
• 31:58
  like. Yeah, and there's a lot of them.
• 32:01
  I mean there is the very handy bit stuff where they give me
• 32:06
  this stuff. It's called the ATE Zine, which
• 32:10
  is kind of a in universe like list of characters and the
• 32:15
  little a little Tracy of who they are, what they looked like,
• 32:20
  which was useful going back to you.
• 32:22
  But there's still there's there's ten of the bastards and
• 32:25
  like they've all got surnames and I find it really difficult.
• 32:29
  So yeah, kind of keep track of characters when they're all kind
• 32:32
  of like gruff surname space people.
• 32:36
  Because Luke, that's one thing that Christie did really well
• 32:39
  with her books was she'd have, I don't know, 10 characters in it,
• 32:43
  but they would all have very different occupations and be
• 32:46
  different sexes and different ages.
• 32:48
  So you could really quickly differentiate them all.
• 32:51
  When you've got 10 Butch soldiers.
• 32:54
  Which one's that again? Robot.
• 32:56
  Go back to the easing. Oh, right.
• 32:57
  Yeah, he's the he's the big black guy.
• 32:59
  Right. OK Shell.
• 33:02
  OK, yeah, he's the Asian guy and he's a bit of a robot.
• 33:06
  Spoiler. What did you think of the easy
• 33:09
  Did? You find it helpful.
• 33:12
  I, I can't believe I, I don't have this amazing memory or
• 33:18
  anything like that where I'm like, I don't need to go back
• 33:22
  and things, but for some reason I didn't really need to go back
• 33:26
  to those little things. In fact, I stopped maybe a
• 33:29
  chapter before the choose your own adventure part and all
• 33:32
  right. And I thought to myself, all
• 33:34
  right, let's write down all the all the characters except for
• 33:39
  the TARDIS crew, right, Let's write down all the characters.
• 33:42
  And I got all the soldiers down except one.
• 33:45
  And it's because that character was the first one to die.
• 33:49
  I couldn't, I didn't. And I was like, all right, shell
• 33:53
  Android shade has the weird face and he shadows warmed robbers.
• 34:00
  The the big dude frogs this lady with.
• 34:05
  More on Frog later. Mel Neither, also known as Frog,
• 34:11
  age 27, visual white female. The lovely frog never got the
• 34:17
  brakes in life, accepting the one that broke her face.
• 34:21
  She still proved herself a super soldier this semester, building
• 34:25
  on that scary reputation she got fighting in the second wave
• 34:29
  Argentine skirmishes and through the Buenos Aires pacification
• 34:33
  programs of 87 to 88. She's going to croak some, sure,
• 34:37
  that's for sure. Mercy.
• 34:44
  Yeah, Cribbins, the pilot, I think you know Joyce is.
• 34:51
  There one called Denny. I don't know who Denny was.
• 34:53
  I think she died quite early, thank God.
• 34:56
  Yeah, yeah. In fact, she's the main suspect
• 34:59
  for most of the book too. But I was like OK, so no matter
• 35:05
  what I think of this book, by the end of it, 1 positive it's a
• 35:11
  good book. But one positive I'm definitely
• 35:13
  going to give it is the fact that I could remember most of
• 35:17
  these characters names and motivations and things.
• 35:20
  So props. There's a lot of characters too.
• 35:24
  It's like Andrew said, when they started dying out, they were
• 35:27
  becoming more vivid, but just because the group was getting
• 35:29
  smaller. So I was like, OK, this is
• 35:31
  easier. I can, I can handle 6 people.
• 35:33
  Yeah, I will say that come the middle of the book, and I think
• 35:37
  I messaged a few times, I was scribbling down theories as to
• 35:42
  who it could be. So as a as a mystery book, it
• 35:45
  really got us hooked into me by the middle because then now I'm
• 35:48
  like, well, that person has just gone off on their own.
• 35:50
  I kept messaging you going, Hulk keeps going off on her own.
• 35:53
  Hulk's like the commander. Of the group.
• 35:56
  Have. I got their name right.
• 35:57
  Have I chosen one of yourself for that?
• 35:59
  Embarrassing it would have been. Yes.
• 36:01
  So it got me as a mystery. It got me.
• 36:04
  Yeah, I mean, we should I something that I and was really
• 36:08
  glad of in this, the 50th anniversary edition that we've
• 36:11
  got was the introduction because it kind of sets the scene for
• 36:17
  the book. And Steve Cole kind of talks
• 36:19
  about how he was the editor of a sort of magazine series like
• 36:24
  part worked about Agatha Christie.
• 36:26
  And that's how he kind of got into her work so much and kind
• 36:29
  of learnt so much about her techniques and storytelling and
• 36:32
  stuff. And I think if I hadn't had that
• 36:34
  at the beginning and I was just into the space people and I was
• 36:38
  not reading it for book club, I might have given up on that.
• 36:40
  Oh. No.
• 36:42
  Just because it's so soldier, soldier, soldiers.
• 36:46
  Let this be a lesson to you then.
• 36:47
  Don't give up, alright? So I'm.
• 36:50
  Just sitting here thinking it's going to be an Eric Saywood
• 36:52
  story or something, like, yeah. Read a bit like that if I'm on.
• 36:56
  It little say Saywood, but I think it turns around.
• 37:00
  One person said at one point. We may not all get out of this
• 37:03
  alive. Or something like that.
• 37:05
  You know, the dialogue was all very like that.
• 37:08
  Yeah. So and what you were saying,
• 37:10
  Joe, about like trying to work out the mystery.
• 37:11
  So because I have actually read and then there were none pretty
• 37:16
  recently. So I was going into this knowing
• 37:20
  the plot of that and then trying to think, well, how is that
• 37:23
  going to fit with all these space soldiers and what's going
• 37:26
  to go on there? And he does, he does things
• 37:30
  quite cleverly because it follows the basic plot of and
• 37:34
  then There Were none for probably about half the book.
• 37:38
  But then it goes somewhere different.
• 37:40
  So I as we were going into it, and so shall we recap the plot
• 37:46
  of and then there were none. Please go ahead.
• 37:49
  And there will be spoilers, so if anyone hasn't hasn't read
• 37:51
  that, it's one of Christie's best books.
• 37:53
  It's been out for a long time now.
• 37:55
  All right, if you have A and you match your chance, all right
• 37:58
  before you start winching. So and then there were none.
• 38:03
  It's not a Chris, it's not a Poirot or a marble book.
• 38:06
  It's a it's a stand alone. And the plot of it is that 10
• 38:10
  strangers are sent these invitations which to come to
• 38:15
  this private island off the coast of Cornwall, I think, and
• 38:20
  they're all sent letters inviting them to different
• 38:24
  things. So they arrive on the island,
• 38:26
  they're trapped on the island, and they realise that they've
• 38:28
  all been kind of invited by a different person for different
• 38:31
  reasons, and they've been gathered there.
• 38:33
  Then there's this kind of mysterious record which is
• 38:36
  played, which with a voice, kind of blares out of it and tells
• 38:40
  them that they've all done something awful in their past
• 38:43
  and they're going to be punished for it.
• 38:45
  And then one by one, each of the characters is kind of knocked
• 38:49
  off on the on the island in kind of inventive ways.
• 38:53
  And as each of them dies, a little model soldier in one of
• 39:00
  the rooms in the house is disappears from from the table.
• 39:03
  So as the as the 10 characters die, they're they're less and
• 39:08
  less soldiers and you're trying to work out who the killer is
• 39:13
  because and how it how the killer can be there given that
• 39:17
  this island is deserted. They all start suspecting each
• 39:22
  other, don't they? It's like it must be you
• 39:24
  because. You.
• 39:25
  Know. Yeah, it's so clever.
• 39:26
  So Steve Cole, so 10 little Aliens follows that narrative
• 39:31
  and there's these kind of alien alien bodies in this cave on
• 39:37
  this planet, not planet, it's a, it's an asteroid, isn't it?
• 39:42
  So as the soldiers die for at least the first part of the book
• 39:48
  body, the bodies of these aliens also disappear.
• 39:51
  So you're trying to work out what's going on, what's the
• 39:53
  connection to this between the murders and the aliens?
• 39:58
  Who's behind all of this? And yeah, it's, it doesn't.
• 40:06
  So yeah, it doesn't follow the plot of And Then There Were
• 40:08
  None. It does something different with
• 40:10
  it. But there are some similarities
• 40:12
  in terms of like who the culprit is and stuff like that.
• 40:15
  If it was to follow the plot of then there were none.
• 40:17
  Sorry. Look, this is a big spoiler now.
• 40:19
  At the end of this book, we would have just had the doctor
• 40:22
  there writing a letter going, I murdered all of them.
• 40:25
  And then he would have shot himself or something like that,
• 40:27
  you know, and he would have blown his brain out and that
• 40:29
  would have. Been the end of the book.
• 40:30
  Which would have been a very memorable end to the book, but
• 40:33
  unfortunately. He's going to regenerate very
• 40:35
  shortly, and we'll get there as well soon because I'm not sure
• 40:38
  this book technically should exist.
• 40:40
  But anyway, yeah. And then halfway through the
• 40:43
  book, it then becomes about sort of alien mystical spells and
• 40:50
  things. That's when I started going, oh,
• 40:51
  what's this? What's going on now?
• 40:53
  I was following it all pretty well until this.
• 40:55
  Point and then all of a sudden there's Angel statues.
• 41:02
  It's very Warhammer. Flying about the place and and
• 41:05
  bursting into insects and people being put into fuel tanks.
• 41:10
  Blood and bone. Power powering the asteroid.
• 41:14
  I mean, I was, I was all there for it because it was all kind
• 41:16
  of well written and the action was great.
• 41:18
  And it's really fast. You know, like every 10 pages
• 41:22
  there's a set piece as they're sort of going from cave to cave.
• 41:26
  But yeah, you're right, it totally abandons.
• 41:29
  And then there were none. Probably like.
• 41:32
  It's a science fiction book, isn't it?
• 41:33
  Yeah. I mean, I was kind of glad about
• 41:35
  that because if it had just followed the plot of that, I'd
• 41:38
  have known where it was going. And it's I think, yeah, maybe a
• 41:43
  less sophisticated writer would have just done a kind of
• 41:46
  straight pastiche of it and just followed those plot beats and
• 41:49
  just done a Doctor Who version of that story.
• 41:52
  But it's kind of part of the misdirection because you think
• 41:56
  that one thing is going on with these bodies and that they're
• 41:58
  just following the pattern of, and it's maybe a revenge thing
• 42:02
  of like someone's getting revenge for the soldiers for
• 42:05
  what they've done to this race of aliens.
• 42:06
  And it's one of them goes, then one of them goes, but it's not
• 42:10
  quite what's happening. There's there's something else
• 42:13
  going on. And that's a great vivid image
• 42:16
  as well. Those there's skirt aliens dead,
• 42:20
  frozen in time, vanishing. And why are they vanishing when
• 42:25
  one of the soldiers dies? That's a really sort of great
• 42:28
  suspense tool as well. And.
• 42:30
  It's a really visceral book as well.
• 42:31
  Like it's quite violent, but it's also like the corpses of
• 42:37
  these aliens, like they're kind of mouldering and stinking and
• 42:42
  falling apart. So yeah, it's a very kind of
• 42:46
  gross, descriptive book. The skirt are described as hang
• 42:51
  on what was it? A sickly reek of sweat, perfume,
• 42:56
  soap and filled nappies. I.
• 43:00
  Mean. It's very vivid.
• 43:02
  Luke, could you do me a favour please?
• 43:03
  Can you remember what we did? Fear Itself.
• 43:04
  And you gave me a lot of help with the plot and the details.
• 43:08
  Well, could you? Because I couldn't quite figure
• 43:10
  out why they went to this asteroid in the 1st place.
• 43:13
  We'll see. A training exercise.
• 43:16
  Or a mission. I couldn't figure out what it
• 43:18
  was. It's actually both I think.
• 43:24
  Like they start off at the training area and then Horns
• 43:27
  like right, we have a mission, it's U-10, let's go.
• 43:33
  I feel like they went to the asteroid specifically for
• 43:36
  training, but Horn chose where they did all this.
• 43:41
  So or was it she knows? Well, you know, there's
• 43:45
  something to that. But yeah, so they go there
• 43:49
  thinking is this going to be some kind of training exercise
• 43:52
  or something? I think.
• 43:53
  But it it's not very quickly it isn't.
• 43:56
  But so, yeah, I think that that's how they get there
• 43:59
  originally. And what are these websites all
• 44:01
  about? So they all wear these, they're
• 44:04
  all hooked into this technology, right?
• 44:07
  Is it so as a as a training team they can all experience what
• 44:12
  everyone else experiencing? EG Shell age 33, visual oriental
• 44:20
  male. Shell joins Academy Elite as
• 44:23
  Marshall Horn's adjutant and Science Officer on personnel
• 44:26
  exchange from the Japanese belt, where his exploits have been
• 44:29
  deemed classified. Spooky.
• 44:37
  Yeah, so I feel like at the start it was AI was having fear
• 44:41
  itself flashbacks actually, because they have got all, they
• 44:44
  got all got headsets on and they did watching other soldiers do
• 44:50
  war games and stuff. I think Shade was in that in,
• 44:52
  you know, in in it as well, just to kind of introduce us to him
• 44:55
  and some of the other characters.
• 44:56
  So yeah, they're they're all, they record a lot of the battles
• 45:01
  and stuff so they can use the footage and stuff to improve and
• 45:04
  stuff. But you can also feel the what
• 45:06
  the soldiers feeling and thinking and all that kind of
• 45:08
  stuff. So it's very, and this probably
• 45:10
  came out in the full fear itself, but it's like that kind
• 45:12
  of similar idea and they've all got those kind of cameras and
• 45:17
  shit on on the asteroid, which is a really good.
• 45:21
  I see. I had no idea that this choose
• 45:25
  your own adventure part was coming and that the whole
• 45:27
  conceit would involve these those wetware sets because, you
• 45:32
  know, they all interlink and then you can all kind of feel,
• 45:34
  think and hear what everyone's thinking and feeling.
• 45:38
  So I had no, no idea that they'd be used for that convenience.
• 45:41
  So it wasn't until like we did our last step.
• 45:43
  Not imaginary friends. Yeah.
• 45:45
  Or the one before that where you guys said let's choose your own
• 45:48
  adventure aspect. And I kind of lost my mind.
• 45:50
  I was like. Sorry about that, you should
• 45:52
  have just experienced that without me telling you.
• 45:57
  That's OK. But yeah, so I guess that whole
• 46:00
  beginning is not only to set up that these guys are soldiers who
• 46:04
  they're they're fuck ups as well.
• 46:07
  So they've all got, they're all there for some reason, even
• 46:10
  including Horn. They're all there because
• 46:11
  they're they're too brutal. They steal shit, the little
• 46:16
  rampy things like that. This is that's the you don't see
• 46:21
  any of that, but it is that's just an implication to rapiness
• 46:26
  everyone but it is there because these guys aren't good.
• 46:30
  They're all these are all cast offs.
• 46:32
  These are all like soldiers who either have trauma or they've
• 46:36
  done something really not good. And so they've which?
• 46:39
  Is another hallmark. Of a good Christie that
• 46:41
  everyone's got a secret. Yeah, yeah.
• 46:44
  Everyone's behaving in a sort of a suspect way because they're
• 46:49
  like shade, you know? He's trying to keep his secret
• 46:53
  of the fact that he didn't stand on a landmine and save a load of
• 46:57
  kids back in the day. Actually, he ran away and let
• 47:00
  his entire platoon die and then got drafted back in because he's
• 47:04
  from a very rich family that's very crispy that.
• 47:09
  Yeah, yeah, then. Oh, so maybe one of you guys can
• 47:14
  give me a favour, do me a favour here because there's mentions of
• 47:18
  it, there's mentions of spectrums in this book.
• 47:20
  So this makes me feel like it's set in the same time period as
• 47:23
  Case of Andrazani. My question is what time period
• 47:28
  is Case of Andrazani set in? Oh dear, I don't have a clue.
• 47:33
  Over to you. Oh, no idea.
• 47:36
  I don't have my what's it called history of the universe to hand.
• 47:41
  I mean, it would make sense, right?
• 47:42
  That's also full of very unpleasant people that will.
• 47:45
  Get killed. If I guess it's sort of it's
• 47:49
  maybe early Earth empire, so sort of earlier than than those
• 47:56
  original scene and that that kind of era of new adventures
• 47:59
  because this is sort of humans have gone out into the Galaxy
• 48:02
  and they're off killing everything that they meet, but
• 48:06
  they haven't don't seem to be sort of secure in that empire
• 48:09
  yet. And there there has been an
• 48:12
  excursion with the SCUR, hasn't there, that there was like a an
• 48:18
  attack on the Earth. I remember reading something
• 48:21
  about like attack in Beijing and things like that.
• 48:23
  And a lot of people died. So it looks like it's a bit of a
• 48:27
  sort of a 9/11 in space, you know, a big terror attack.
• 48:30
  And now the. Earth.
• 48:31
  I don't think it was Earth, I think.
• 48:33
  Where was it? I think all all of the planets
• 48:36
  are named after like Earth cities.
• 48:38
  So it gets a little bit. So when it says Beijing, it
• 48:41
  means like the planet Beijing. That's the second.
• 48:46
  Book that. Does that he has the same naming
• 48:48
  convention for planets that Mister Lyons does for Time of
• 48:51
  Your Life. Because there's a in one of
• 48:54
  those two books, there's a planet of New Jersey or
• 48:57
  something like that as well, and Neo Tokyo and things like that.
• 49:00
  So yeah. Don't think he won't go to huge
• 49:02
  lengths with the names of places, all right?
• 49:04
  Because he wrote to the Slaughter for no other reason
• 49:08
  that in Revenge of the Cybermen they named how many satellites
• 49:12
  there are around. Is it Jupiter?
• 49:15
  It is Jupiter, isn't it? And since then, you know,
• 49:18
  another couple of 100 have been found.
• 49:20
  So he wrote to the slaughter just to explain the
• 49:23
  discontinuity as to why all those satellites were no longer
• 49:26
  there. Well, I mean, we haven't even
• 49:34
  touched the regulars yet, but, you know, let's keep them, you
• 49:37
  know, frozen in time for a second.
• 49:39
  Who was your main suspects of this book?
• 49:43
  Who did you have pinned down as the the creep that's getting
• 49:47
  everybody killed, Luke? All right.
• 49:53
  I think it's the only reason I I feel like this person was on my
• 49:57
  radar and I managed to guess, I guess kind of correctly.
• 50:03
  Oh, by the way, spoilers. If you don't want to know the
• 50:05
  end of the book, stop listening now.
• 50:08
  Oh, absolutely. So I feel like because I was
• 50:13
  doing notes and paying probably more attention than I normally,
• 50:16
  if I was just reading this without notes, I I think it
• 50:18
  might have been a surprise maybe, or maybe it would have
• 50:21
  tweaked a lot later than I than I did.
• 50:24
  I don't think I really fully clicked into the chooser and
• 50:27
  adventure part. I know that's late, but I had my
• 50:29
  doubts about haunt. You know those people who say I
• 50:33
  hate this, I hate this, I hate this to the point where you're
• 50:36
  like, fucking hell, you'd love it, right?
• 50:40
  Who are you trying to convince? Yeah, I hate Steven Moffett so
• 50:45
  much. I'll.
• 50:50
  Never shut up about Sophie Aldrin or Stephen Muppet, do I?
• 50:53
  It must be love. But like her hatred was just
• 51:01
  like, it's a little over the it's a little over the top, her
• 51:04
  story, her back story when you find a little bit more about it.
• 51:08
  But what definitely put me on her, her put haunt on my radar
• 51:14
  was Denny, because Danny was just like, I think there's
• 51:17
  something wrong with this haunt haunt lady.
• 51:19
  And just unfortunately she tells Joyx this and he's a jerk.
• 51:25
  Dave Joyx, age 32, visual white male joining ATE following a two
• 51:32
  year stint with the notorious SMC incendiary division African
• 51:36
  Frontier. Joyx sure must like it when the
• 51:39
  heat is on. After singing his fingers over
• 51:42
  third and final Academy caution from misconduct, he's gained a
• 51:45
  blistering 5 merits in the last three simulations.
• 51:49
  Way to go, jokes, but don't burn up now you're here.
• 51:56
  And he's the kind of dude who's just like, no person with a
• 52:01
  vagina. You're wrong.
• 52:03
  I'm just going to gaslight you and make you feel like you're
• 52:05
  stupid. By the way, do you want to have
• 52:06
  sex? Get out of here, Jokes, asshole.
• 52:11
  So she mentions this stuff about Haunt and Denny's the second to
• 52:16
  die. So that kind of stayed with me.
• 52:21
  I did allow myself to be distracted by maybe, maybe,
• 52:24
  maybe someone else. But it always came blunt.
• 52:32
  I feel like Kreben felt like a bit of a piece of work.
• 52:37
  It's at times as well and also shade I know he had and it's
• 52:45
  also because I also had this dumb feeling like maybe shade is
• 52:50
  kind of helping hold a little bit too because she he follows
• 52:54
  her around all the time. But no, it wasn't like that at
• 52:59
  all. Shell maybe at first because
• 53:01
  he's the intelligence dude and he's just like, all right, he's
• 53:05
  probably knowing more than he's letting on what he kind of does.
• 53:08
  But I was wrong. So but Hort never left the
• 53:13
  system. He she always stayed in there.
• 53:15
  So you are you are bang on. OK Andrew, what about you?
• 53:18
  How are your detective skills? Well, I was trying to guess from
• 53:22
  like the very first page who was going to be.
• 53:25
  So my first and #1 suspect was Shade, because he was the kind
• 53:31
  of viewpoint character that we started with.
• 53:34
  So I thought I was just trying to think like, who's going to be
• 53:36
  unexpected? So I thought, you know, Shade is
• 53:40
  the person we meet first. He's got this weird sort of
• 53:42
  guilt complex, doesn't seem to get on with the other soldiers,
• 53:46
  and he's the one that we're spending the most time with.
• 53:48
  So maybe it's going to be surprising if it's him.
• 53:51
  But then he's not really our viewpoint character when we kind
• 53:53
  of go beyond the first couple of chapters.
• 53:57
  That is a Christie trick though, isn't it?
• 54:00
  Like you and I talked about Roger Ackroy's.
• 54:04
  More more spoilers there. Then I started suspecting Denny
• 54:12
  because she was the first to die.
• 54:14
  I thought that I thought the killer was going to be somebody
• 54:18
  that we already thought was dead, which is what happens in.
• 54:21
  And then there were non spoilers.
• 54:25
  So yeah, those first couple of soldiers who died, I was like,
• 54:30
  and have we found their bodies? Have we found this?
• 54:32
  And Steve Cole really plays with that idea and really goes down
• 54:36
  the route that it is one of those people to misdirect you.
• 54:40
  I mean, I had some suspicions of Haunt because because I think
• 54:45
  she's the closest one to the character who it is in And Then
• 54:49
  There were None. So the character who's the
• 54:51
  killer in And Then there were None is the judge who's on the
• 54:56
  island with all the characters. So he's kind of he's kind of
• 55:03
  concocted a reason why he's on the island that he's kind of
• 55:05
  sent somebody to their death as a judge.
• 55:08
  And this is the kind of retribution for that.
• 55:10
  But actually he's kind of in his position as a judge, seen all
• 55:14
  these kind of failures of justice of all these people and
• 55:18
  then brought them together to kind of punish them and fate to
• 55:22
  his own death as part of the process.
• 55:23
  So I thought, you know, he was this kind of authority figure.
• 55:28
  So born was the closest parallel to that in this story.
• 55:34
  And I guess she's the one who gathered these soldiers
• 55:36
  together. So that again, that was my that
• 55:40
  was the reason why I suspected her.
• 55:41
  It wasn't really to do with her actions.
• 55:42
  I didn't notice the things that you 2 did when she'd kind of
• 55:45
  gone off on her own. She kept.
• 55:47
  Saying she was the only one that wasn't with people.
• 55:50
  I was going, but then I mean my notes.
• 55:53
  I was getting furious in the middle of the book.
• 55:54
  I was scribbling away on my phone because I was really
• 56:00
  convinced it was shell the Android because he was behaving
• 56:04
  really suspiciously at the start.
• 56:09
  And I went down a rabbit hole of it's been or Polly and they're
• 56:13
  being possessed by the scur because there's no way that they
• 56:17
  would be this awful. One of the things they do in
• 56:20
  this book, I'm like. Wow, that would have been a cool
• 56:22
  twist. Uncharacteristic.
• 56:23
  And then I thought, no, wait, he's going to be even cleverer
• 56:26
  than that and it's going to be the doctor.
• 56:28
  But it's all going to be inadvertent somehow.
• 56:30
  Like, like he's set like a domino rally in motion.
• 56:34
  And you know, it's a whole thing, like a massive trap
• 56:37
  that's been set. And the doctors, unfortunately,
• 56:39
  he sort of tripped it, but no, it wasn't that either.
• 56:43
  And then when he started to make you empathize with Frog, I was
• 56:47
  like, he's trying to make you feel sorry for this character.
• 56:50
  So this is what I mean. But I was having fun.
• 56:52
  I was literally going through every bloody person.
• 56:56
  Ralph Tavel, age 30, visual white male, the highest ranking
• 57:02
  hero of the Dorn Bridge simulation with 15 merits about
• 57:06
  Tovell. They say there ain't a ship in
• 57:08
  the sky he can't fix and fly come a long way from his day's
• 57:12
  stretcher bearing. With the volunteers out in the
• 57:14
  Commonwealth Belt, it sure stretches he's going to be
• 57:17
  filling up come graduation day. Go Tovell.
• 57:24
  The only people I didn't suspect was Roba Crebin and but pretty
• 57:31
  much everybody else was on my list at one point or another.
• 57:34
  But because she kept wandering off on her own, I was like,
• 57:38
  she's the only one with the ability to to to sort of murder
• 57:42
  people. Although Polly.
• 57:44
  Wanders up on her own early. In the past, that was why I
• 57:47
  just. Affected her because she had
• 57:49
  this weird thing where after they've arrived in the TARDIS,
• 57:52
  she sort of, I can't, I didn't really understand if she'd like,
• 57:56
  gone through a secret door or if she'd been teleported or
• 57:59
  something. But she suddenly ends up on a
• 58:01
  completely different part of the asteroid.
• 58:04
  And it's a bit like, what happened to you in that period
• 58:08
  of time that we didn't see you for.
• 58:09
  Have you been like taken over by some sort of brain slug?
• 58:13
  But no, she hasn't. I mean, we already know you're
• 58:16
  evil. For that confession about the
• 58:18
  charity shock, you count. Well, we'll get there in a
• 58:21
  second. Yeah.
• 58:24
  But I do think it really, it is hard.
• 58:27
  It is hard to juggle that many characters and to have them all
• 58:31
  behaving in a suspicious way where any one of them could be
• 58:35
  the person behind it all. And I think he did that
• 58:37
  extremely well. Clearly, because we've all said
• 58:40
  different names when I've said this.
• 58:42
  So. And were you?
• 58:45
  Satisfied with the actual answer, Andrew.
• 58:50
  No, I thought that Haunt's motivations were bullshit.
• 59:00
  I didn't buy it at all. And I kind of put like with a
• 59:04
  Christie. Like the really good ones are
• 59:06
  the ones where you don't expect who it is and then the read the
• 59:11
  why is also really good and compelling.
• 59:15
  There are some Christies where that that isn't the case, but
• 59:18
  yes, so so Horne's kind of motivation was for it was that
• 59:22
  her she had a lover in. Saved by the sheer humans, yeah.
• 59:30
  Yeah, so she, she was sort of in the sheer attack with her lover.
• 59:35
  He died, She nearly died. The sheer sort of rescued her
• 59:40
  and and like rebuilt her body or something.
• 59:45
  And then she just decided that then she was going to work for
• 59:49
  the show. Like there wasn't really like a
• 59:51
  mind control element. I didn't.
• 59:53
  I just, I didn't. Say to her.
• 59:54
  Didn't they like you? You will repay.
• 59:56
  This debt to us at some point, but then she went on like some
• 59:59
  mad killing spree and murdered tons of them.
• 1:00:02
  And they didn't seem to mind that.
• 1:00:04
  And then eventually one day, yeah, this this opportunity came
• 1:00:07
  up and they took it. Yeah, so I didn't.
• 1:00:09
  I didn't really get why she was working for them.
• 1:00:12
  It just didn't really make sense to me.
• 1:00:13
  It was kind of just like she's the villain now and that's
• 1:00:17
  that's she's just the villain and she's the baddie and she's
• 1:00:20
  working with the baddies. Accept it.
• 1:00:22
  I did love Heart. Heart.
• 1:00:24
  No, sorry. No.
• 1:00:25
  The doctors. You're mad.
• 1:00:27
  Utterly mad. I mean, maybe that's it.
• 1:00:32
  There's there's the motivation. What did you think like?
• 1:00:38
  I was like, oh, I was right. How disappointing.
• 1:00:44
  Look, I'm going to put this book over.
• 1:00:47
  I like this book, but as soon as one of you two said maybe it was
• 1:00:51
  been a Poly or the doctor and I was like, holy shit, that's a
• 1:00:54
  great idea. Yeah.
• 1:00:58
  So I think I might have preferred that the Poly wait
• 1:01:02
  route or something because that that definitely wouldn't have
• 1:01:05
  seen that coming. Yeah, Haunts was just a little
• 1:01:08
  bit signposted for for for me, but it didn't like it didn't
• 1:01:15
  ruin my enjoyment of the novel or anything like that.
• 1:01:17
  I'm not insane, but I was a bit like, it's it's horn.
• 1:01:22
  I've kind of suspected you in and out since the start.
• 1:01:28
  So yeah. What I do think was very clever
• 1:01:31
  about the reveal of Horn was the all of the back story of her on
• 1:01:38
  that mission was in the choose your own adventure sequence, was
• 1:01:43
  in the website sequence. You have to read that in order
• 1:01:45
  for the book to make sense. Like I can imagine some people
• 1:01:48
  going. I hate flicking backwards and
• 1:01:50
  forwards across 80 pages of this bloody book.
• 1:01:52
  What am I, four years old? You know you have to read that,
• 1:01:56
  otherwise you miss. All the context of of that.
• 1:01:59
  Reveal I'm a four year old, then I will, I will back you up on
• 1:02:03
  what you just said, Joe, because when I finished the choose your
• 1:02:06
  own adventure part, I hadn't read it all.
• 1:02:08
  And they're all numbered in sections.
• 1:02:09
  So you can just, I just wrote down the order I wrote in the
• 1:02:12
  section. So I went back to the start and
• 1:02:16
  it was like, which paths haven't I taken?
• 1:02:19
  And I eventually took all the paths and there's something, I
• 1:02:21
  think it was Krebbin saying something to Ben.
• 1:02:24
  And I was like, oh, it's haunt. Yeah, Nah, Nah, it's haunt.
• 1:02:28
  And that's kind of the area as well, where Haunt just buggers
• 1:02:30
  off and leaves the doctor to sort some shit out because she's
• 1:02:33
  gonna sort, you know? She's the only person within
• 1:02:37
  that section that gets that massive back story.
• 1:02:39
  Nobody else does. I'm like, why are we learning
• 1:02:42
  all this about just one cat? What can I ask you both how you
• 1:02:46
  found? You're going to choose your own
• 1:02:48
  adventure section because I had a different reaction to it this
• 1:02:51
  time, to how I did when I first read it, Andrew.
• 1:02:56
  I think it's a bit gimmicky, but he kind of makes it work and it
• 1:03:00
  doesn't stick around for too long to become annoying.
• 1:03:04
  I didn't love it and it was also it's usually in a choose your
• 1:03:11
  own adventure, you have more control over it.
• 1:03:13
  Whereas in this one you have to read certain passages and it
• 1:03:16
  kind of directs you back to other bits if you haven't read
• 1:03:19
  them. So it feels like you don't
• 1:03:21
  really have that kind of free roaming thing that you did in
• 1:03:25
  Goosebumps Choose your Own adventure back in the day.
• 1:03:28
  Or do you remember the Pip and Jane Baker ones?
• 1:03:30
  You know, Ronnie reaps the whirlwind and things like that.
• 1:03:33
  No, I've never read any of those.
• 1:03:35
  Classic. I mean soon to put something.
• 1:03:39
  If we could bloody follow the copy.
• 1:03:41
  Some Colin Baker Choose your own adventures, yeah.
• 1:03:43
  That was one of them. That was one of them.
• 1:03:44
  But no, I didn't have that one. I've never even seen a copy of
• 1:03:48
  that one. It was Crisis in Space or
• 1:03:50
  something, or I don't know. It's.
• 1:03:51
  Another one. Yeah, the the flock rocks of
• 1:03:54
  Jugs LA or something like that. That was another Pippin Jane
• 1:03:56
  Baker one. Just lots of Florida language.
• 1:04:00
  I enjoyed the Choose Your Own Adventure parts, but there's one
• 1:04:03
  thing I would have changed, and that is I would have had an
• 1:04:07
  ending hidden in there somewhere where you get to that part, the
• 1:04:12
  book's over. We're all dead.
• 1:04:15
  And I think that would have been like just like this fun little
• 1:04:17
  thing to have in this kind of that's the only time you could
• 1:04:20
  really do it and choose your own adventure.
• 1:04:21
  You're just like, oh, you took the wrong path and you're fucked
• 1:04:24
  up. Start again and, and and do it
• 1:04:27
  like that. That's the only thing I kind of
• 1:04:29
  would have done. Just maybe not, not not four or
• 1:04:33
  five false endings. I'm not not insane, but maybe
• 1:04:35
  maybe one just to be like, Oh shit, that was successful.
• 1:04:39
  Maybe that would have just given away who the killer was or or
• 1:04:42
  whatever. But yeah, that's that's the only
• 1:04:46
  little little that's a little nitpick.
• 1:04:48
  But you're you're right though, Joe.
• 1:04:50
  It is the haunt show in that that that section as well.
• 1:04:54
  You get the most out out of her. So if you don't.
• 1:04:57
  You haven't read Haunt's motivation.
• 1:05:00
  Please go back to this player. Dax Roba, age 28, visual black
• 1:05:08
  male, The big bruiser with the baby face robes.
• 1:05:12
  Had a good semester scoring highest KD kill rate over 5
• 1:05:16
  simulations. Just hope he doesn't give you
• 1:05:19
  the evil eye. Robo was top marksman with the
• 1:05:21
  volunteers out in Hunan and the Commonwealth, and he's been
• 1:05:25
  itching for the live ammo. Shoot to kill now, big guy,
• 1:05:28
  you're here. So, yeah, so that that's the
• 1:05:37
  section where I was left with no debt, no doubt.
• 1:05:41
  And that's because I did go back and I read this scene with Ben
• 1:05:44
  and I think Krebin and I was like, oh, OK, yeah.
• 1:05:49
  But that's the only thing. There's like no premature death
• 1:05:51
  scene. I would like that.
• 1:05:52
  When I first read this book, I think I just loved every BBC
• 1:05:56
  book when they were coming out of the time.
• 1:05:57
  I found my review of it and I was so in love with this choose
• 1:06:01
  your own Adventure section. And I can kind of see the
• 1:06:04
  motivation because we're wandering around caves for like
• 1:06:08
  150 pages and then he goes, you know what, the 60 pages, we're
• 1:06:11
  going to do this really fun sort of jumping back and forth.
• 1:06:14
  And it is. Cave walking, yeah.
• 1:06:16
  Like you said, address, it's a, it's a gimmick and it's a fun
• 1:06:19
  gimmick as well, you know, and it makes it distinctive from all
• 1:06:22
  the other past Doctor adventures that are in that, you know, in
• 1:06:25
  that collection. I found it really annoying this
• 1:06:29
  time, primarily because by the point the Choose Your Own
• 1:06:34
  adventure started, he'd got me by that point with just the
• 1:06:38
  story he was telling. And I was loving just them going
• 1:06:41
  in and out of the caves and crazy stuff was happening and
• 1:06:44
  angels were coming down and people were dying and bodies
• 1:06:47
  were going missing. And I was so hooked by that
• 1:06:50
  point. And I was just like I.
• 1:06:51
  Remember reading it going fucking hell, do I how quickly
• 1:06:54
  can I get out of this section? Like and I was like, right,
• 1:06:57
  what's the closest to the exit? And then I'm reading scenes
• 1:07:01
  from. To people's point of view, the
• 1:07:03
  same fucking scene. I'm like why am I doing this?
• 1:07:06
  I want to go back to the action. I I don't object to it, but I
• 1:07:14
  did find it irritating this time.
• 1:07:16
  I think as a child I loved it. As an adult I find it a bit
• 1:07:20
  wearying. I can definitely say that.
• 1:07:26
  I can definitely say that for some people it might be like,
• 1:07:31
  hey, we've done all this stuff, let's do something a bit
• 1:07:34
  different. I already thought this book was
• 1:07:38
  this jam packed with stuff in it.
• 1:07:40
  Like just going by sci-fi concepts.
• 1:07:42
  It's it's kind of Warhammer ish when you've got like possession
• 1:07:46
  and like the the rituals, but technology and soldiers like
• 1:07:51
  that's Warhammer. The people who can seemingly
• 1:07:53
  move faster than the eye can see.
• 1:07:55
  That's blink of an eye from Star Trek.
• 1:07:57
  You've got body contracts, mind powers, force fields, itchy bug,
• 1:08:02
  flea things, cyborgs, body changes.
• 1:08:06
  You've got fucking human propelled engines, all of these
• 1:08:13
  ideas and stuff. And I'm like, I don't think this
• 1:08:16
  by the time I, I, I was, yeah, part way through it, I was like,
• 1:08:19
  this book didn't even need, need this, this section.
• 1:08:24
  You know why he did it though, Lucas?
• 1:08:25
  Because you had Palace of the Red Sun by Christopher Beulis
• 1:08:27
  last month, and that was just a sick doctor walking around the
• 1:08:30
  garden for 280 pages. He's like, right, if you're
• 1:08:33
  bored of that shit, I'm going to throw everything at you and see
• 1:08:36
  what you get. It didn't feel unwieldy, though.
• 1:08:38
  I didn't think I I absolutely could keep hold of all the plot
• 1:08:42
  elements because. I can't remember where it was,
• 1:08:45
  but it was about 150 pages in. There was a very handy Poirot
• 1:08:49
  moment where the doctor pulled everybody together and went
• 1:08:52
  right, let's recap everything that's happened in the book so
• 1:08:55
  far so everyone can keep up. Which was very, very handy
• 1:08:59
  indeed. Well, OK, I can't believe we've
• 1:09:02
  got almost an hour and we haven't mentioned the regulars
• 1:09:05
  yet. And so are my children.
• 1:09:08
  Let's talk. About the First Doctor, Ben and
• 1:09:13
  Holly and let's all take the lead with one of these
• 1:09:15
  characters, Andrew. Who do you want?
• 1:09:20
  Probably Ben is the one I've got the most to say about.
• 1:09:23
  OK. Will you go for Ben?
• 1:09:24
  And then we'll choose one afterwards.
• 1:09:27
  Yeah, so Ben in this book is not the most sympathetic characters.
• 1:09:35
  He's the killer. He's not the killer, but he is a
• 1:09:38
  prick. And yeah, I mean, it's it's an
• 1:09:44
  interesting take that he's that Steve Coles chosen for this
• 1:09:49
  book. But essentially he makes Ben
• 1:09:51
  quite casually racist, and I'm not really sure why.
• 1:09:57
  It's like, so Ben has lots of racist remarks that he makes
• 1:10:02
  about Shell, who is the Android character, but also appears as
• 1:10:07
  an Asian man. So there's lots of like little
• 1:10:09
  snippy things that that Ben says about him.
• 1:10:13
  Polly does call him out on it and calls him a racist at one
• 1:10:16
  point. You have the quote, I've got the
• 1:10:18
  quote. Here you go.
• 1:10:20
  He goes. I bet if we looked hard enough
• 1:10:21
  we'd find Made in Taiwan on him somewhere and Polly's then just
• 1:10:25
  goes That's racist Ben. Yeah.
• 1:10:28
  And so I think they are both, well, from the from the
• 1:10:34
  perspective of writing this in 2002, whenever they're period
• 1:10:39
  characters. So I guess he's looking at the
• 1:10:41
  kind of attitudes that those characters might have had at the
• 1:10:43
  time. But I mean, there isn't really
• 1:10:47
  I, I, there isn't like a thread that he's pulling out from the
• 1:10:50
  series, I don't think with with Ben in that way.
• 1:10:54
  And I kind of felt like, you know, Ben being a sailor, he's
• 1:11:00
  probably seen quite a lot of the world, I think, you know, in the
• 1:11:04
  war machines. His ship is off to the West
• 1:11:06
  Indies. And the kind of I did a little
• 1:11:10
  bit of broad Wikipedia research of like where naval vessels like
• 1:11:15
  that would have gone in the world during during the 60s.
• 1:11:18
  And. Would have would have visited
• 1:11:22
  Asia probably as well. So I don't know it just but then
• 1:11:26
  I'm sure there were were people who had those experiences who
• 1:11:28
  were still really racist and it just felt a bit odd in the IT
• 1:11:35
  didn't really culminate in anything.
• 1:11:39
  It was just sort of an element that he added to Ben's
• 1:11:42
  character. And I suppose it also kind of
• 1:11:44
  feels a bit, given that Ben is one of the few working class
• 1:11:51
  companions that we've got, that he's the one that he decides,
• 1:11:54
  oh, you're going to be the racist companion?
• 1:11:56
  I don't know. It's just a bit.
• 1:11:58
  I don't really know what he was trying to do with that other
• 1:12:00
  than maybe add a bit of period detail to these characters.
• 1:12:05
  Can I ask you though, do you want to make?
• 1:12:08
  Allowances for Ben because he's extremely pretty.
• 1:12:14
  Always. Well, I mean.
• 1:12:17
  Don't you worry, Luke, I'm going to be asking you about Polly as
• 1:12:19
  well, all right? I mean, yeah, Ben is incredibly
• 1:12:25
  and Ben is a character. I mean, when so that I had Hour
• 1:12:31
  of the Daleks on audio tape when I was little and I had the war
• 1:12:35
  machines and I would have always said, oh, Ben and Polly are two
• 1:12:38
  of my favorite companions. They're they're brilliant, but
• 1:12:42
  then after actually like watching more of their run, like
• 1:12:45
  in order when the kind of CD box sets came out.
• 1:12:49
  Ben is actually a really shit character.
• 1:12:53
  Yeah, and you can I'd always felt like, oh, why did they
• 1:12:56
  bring Jamie in and replace him? But the character really doesn't
• 1:12:59
  work in in Season 4. And I think it's more Michael
• 1:13:05
  Craze's performance than the scripts because he's kind of,
• 1:13:09
  he's always got these like little snippy things to say
• 1:13:12
  about the Doctor, but Michael Crais plays them like he
• 1:13:16
  absolutely fucking hates the Doctor.
• 1:13:18
  And it's. Aggressive, isn't he at?
• 1:13:20
  All yeah it's he's always just so angry and pissed off
• 1:13:23
  everywhere they go so I can kind of understand why they decided
• 1:13:27
  to get rid of the character and replace him with Jamie, but
• 1:13:32
  he's. Still get Polly though, geez.
• 1:13:36
  No. Oh, we'll get on to Polly, don't
• 1:13:38
  you worry. Oh, he does say, though, in
• 1:13:40
  that, in that introduction. What?
• 1:13:42
  Whatever. I love Ben and Polly and to
• 1:13:45
  work. To work them into my. 10 Little
• 1:13:47
  Alien story. I needed two companions.
• 1:13:50
  I'm so glad. Well, you made one racist and
• 1:13:53
  one utterly classist, I mean. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:57
  You don't get the sense that they're characters that he loves
• 1:13:59
  from from the. Although it is an extreme
• 1:14:03
  situation, I will say that I'm not sure you'd see me at my.
• 1:14:06
  Best if I was in this book. I'd probably be hiding in the
• 1:14:09
  nearest shadow if I'm honest. So I put my writer's hat on and
• 1:14:16
  I don't have one because I can't write for shit.
• 1:14:19
  But I could see Stephen Cole. I could see Stephen Cole fucking
• 1:14:23
  just sitting there, right? You know, like, all right, I
• 1:14:26
  need to get into Ben's head a bit.
• 1:14:28
  He's a, he's a Navy sailor, all right.
• 1:14:32
  Was he in the war? No, he would have been too
• 1:14:33
  young. He's probably serving with
• 1:14:36
  people who have been and, and it's the 60s, so there probably
• 1:14:41
  was a little bit of that language being used towards
• 1:14:44
  people like that, whether those people believed in what they
• 1:14:48
  were saying or not. There was probably words, things
• 1:14:50
  like rather than saying Japanese, you shorten it to the
• 1:14:52
  first 3 letters, things like that, which are racist.
• 1:14:56
  But very like if my old man still pulls out that one
• 1:14:59
  sometimes, like I don't and I don't think he's a racist
• 1:15:03
  person, but he just says some of that shit and you're just like,
• 1:15:07
  come on, man. So I can, I can understand why
• 1:15:11
  he might have chosen Ben to kind of think like that.
• 1:15:16
  It's kind of dropped after about 3050 pages where as soon as like
• 1:15:20
  Polly's just like racism is bad. Ben's like, Oh yeah, it is.
• 1:15:24
  And he's not racist again, the whole book.
• 1:15:28
  Well, bind you. I'm kind of glad that she called
• 1:15:30
  him out on it and he took it on the chin and adjusted it,
• 1:15:36
  adjusted his behaviour for the rest of the book.
• 1:15:37
  Because I don't want 280 pages or 300 or however how long this
• 1:15:42
  book of him calling people racist terms and things like
• 1:15:48
  that. I wouldn't have liked that at
• 1:15:50
  all. But if he did it just, yeah, he
• 1:15:52
  did it enough for us to talk about, but not enough for us to
• 1:15:55
  be like, I hate Ben in this book.
• 1:15:57
  I did think he got his diction perfectly though, like I could
• 1:16:00
  hear Michael Cray saying every single line he says at one
• 1:16:04
  point. Don't reckon I'm the brightest
• 1:16:06
  in the class but I reckon I've got plenty of guts, which I
• 1:16:09
  thought was a great line. It sums up Ben really well and I
• 1:16:12
  absolutely can hear Michael Cray saying it.
• 1:16:15
  We'll be friends of soldiers really well too, like.
• 1:16:18
  He's a, he's a Army, Navy man, isn't he?
• 1:16:24
  Joseph Crabbin, age 23, visual white male.
• 1:16:29
  Grevin's not your average Joe acing the brain cases in
• 1:16:33
  intelligence. He's been put on fast flight to
• 1:16:36
  join the big guns in Pent Central.
• 1:16:38
  If he can get through Elite without that big head getting
• 1:16:41
  blown off, that is. Luke, what characters do you
• 1:16:48
  want to take? All right, I'm going to take
• 1:16:51
  Polly because. I really wanted the doctor.
• 1:16:58
  And yes, so I like her in this book.
• 1:17:02
  She does have a bit of classism about her, but I've met people
• 1:17:08
  like that in the op shops and stuff.
• 1:17:10
  You ever go to an op shop, right, and you pick up, I don't
• 1:17:12
  know, I usually look at books for books when I'm at an op
• 1:17:15
  shop. So let's just go for books, you
• 1:17:17
  see. Shop you're talking about?
• 1:17:18
  Yeah, yeah. Opportunity shop, Op shop, Yeah,
• 1:17:23
  there you go. So you go into one and you just
• 1:17:25
  say you see a book that, you know, is generally priced at
• 1:17:28
  these things at about $2.00. You know, there's someone like
• 1:17:32
  Polly volunteering there when suddenly all the books, rather
• 1:17:36
  than being like this usual charity shop price $5 or
• 1:17:43
  something like that and you're just like, what?
• 1:17:45
  What are these books $5? They don't want to get rid of
• 1:17:48
  them. It's because someone who's a bit
• 1:17:51
  fucking snobby, you know, up their own ass is put the prices
• 1:17:55
  on these things and hey, you know, if you've got a bit of
• 1:17:58
  extra cash, you're going to up the prices on stuff like that.
• 1:18:02
  So I, I, as soon as I read that scene with PO Polly being a bit
• 1:18:08
  like that in The upshot, I'm like, you overpriced things in
• 1:18:10
  there too, don't you? Yeah.
• 1:18:13
  So you love. That that sequence.
• 1:18:16
  So I, I thought that was a great little insight to sort of how
• 1:18:21
  well off she was and how she was like, Oh yeah, you know, I'm
• 1:18:25
  happy to describe it. She hated the.
• 1:18:29
  Squalor of the grey little store, standing all day amid the
• 1:18:33
  remnants of drab little lives on shelves and hangers.
• 1:18:36
  She walked out after a week, making her mum ecstatic.
• 1:18:40
  So her mum's going. What are you doing in that
• 1:18:42
  awful? Second hand shop and donated a
• 1:18:45
  pricey pile of last year's fashions to a soldier Gill.
• 1:18:50
  I don't know. We're seeing Polly in her best
• 1:18:51
  light here either. Yeah, no, but I do like the
• 1:18:59
  visual of her in this book. It a brightly coloured spacesuit
• 1:19:04
  for the whole time I can't remember what colour it is,
• 1:19:07
  yellow or orange or. Something like that.
• 1:19:09
  Yellow. Yellow.
• 1:19:10
  Yellow. That's right.
• 1:19:15
  But apart from that bit of classism, I think he, I think
• 1:19:21
  Steve Cole adds these things to both Ben and Polly.
• 1:19:23
  Maybe just flesh them out a bit more to give them a bit more
• 1:19:26
  character and say, hey, they're nice people at heart, but
• 1:19:30
  they're not perfect people either, despite the fact that
• 1:19:33
  they both look perfect. And doesn't matter what
• 1:19:36
  orientation you want, you want at least one of them.
• 1:19:40
  They're gorgeous. Right.
• 1:19:41
  Both on the right day. Luke if I'm on.
• 1:19:44
  Me too if he's coming. What a hot TARDIS team.
• 1:19:50
  Jeez Louise. She, she, she was very screamy
• 1:19:55
  in this book that kept pissing me off because usually in the
• 1:20:01
  books they'd kind of reappraise companions and kind of make them
• 1:20:07
  the characters a bit stronger. But she spends a lot of her time
• 1:20:10
  kind of screaming and whimpering and I.
• 1:20:16
  I found that a bit jarring because normally they kind of
• 1:20:18
  avoid those sort of companion cliches in books like this and,
• 1:20:22
  and do something a bit different or temper it with the kind of
• 1:20:26
  reasons why they're like that. So yeah, she was, she was kind
• 1:20:30
  of on the edge of hysteria sometimes.
• 1:20:32
  And I, yeah, I wasn't really into that.
• 1:20:35
  Did she say? I'll make the.
• 1:20:36
  Tea if you go, if you don't. Go off.
• 1:20:38
  I was like, oh please, let's not do this.
• 1:20:40
  What did you say, Lou? Yeah, they made is, is this
• 1:20:45
  between the smugglers in 10th Planet or between war machines
• 1:20:48
  and the smugglers I'm. Not sure.
• 1:20:51
  Smugglers in 10th planet I think.
• 1:20:54
  I cannot all right, I can also understand.
• 1:20:57
  That's the only way bit where there's sort of a gap you can.
• 1:21:00
  In order for gap, apparently virgin in their thing of what
• 1:21:05
  you can and can't do for missing adventures.
• 1:21:07
  One of them was no Hartnell, Ben and Polly.
• 1:21:13
  There's no gaps, but if you're going to get a book like this,
• 1:21:16
  who gives a shit? But so with Polly, yeah, she's a
• 1:21:22
  bit hysterical in this book, but it's it's like a first time to
• 1:21:25
  the future. There's flying little cherub
• 1:21:28
  statues going around, there's bugs itchinger to death, people
• 1:21:31
  melting. Her body's changing.
• 1:21:33
  I think I'd be a little screamy as well.
• 1:21:36
  Yeah, casual day in the office, you know.
• 1:21:43
  I am, yeah. I I wasn't too sure what to make
• 1:21:46
  of but that I'm not entirely sure what to make of Polly
• 1:21:49
  anyway. I really hate her in The
• 1:21:51
  Highlanders when she's so horrible to that lovely Kirsty
• 1:21:54
  and she's like, oh you. Awful savage.
• 1:21:57
  You stay here then and I'll go, you know.
• 1:22:00
  So I think there there is an element.
• 1:22:03
  Of her class, you know, being sort of middle, upper middle in
• 1:22:08
  the series. But Anika Wills gets away with
• 1:22:12
  it because she's just so, so damn fucking sexy.
• 1:22:15
  So she and she's absolute 60 sexy as well.
• 1:22:18
  You know which is the sexiest sexy.
• 1:22:20
  A woman could possibly be long. Lashes, beautiful flashes, like
• 1:22:25
  she could get away with anything.
• 1:22:26
  I'm sure she did. I've did you say Andrew, you
• 1:22:29
  read her book. Yes, well, I've read the first
• 1:22:32
  volume of her autobiography. It's a really good read.
• 1:22:35
  She's had a very, very eventful life.
• 1:22:39
  So is Polly. And so is Polly.
• 1:22:42
  I don't know. I think Annika Wills have been
• 1:22:43
  through more than Polly. Yeah, wasn't there a cult or
• 1:22:47
  something you said? Yeah, well, I didn't I think
• 1:22:50
  that's in volume to she joined she joined a cult at the point
• 1:22:55
  but of. Course she did.
• 1:22:56
  I mean, there's, there's a lot of really sad stuff that
• 1:22:58
  happened to her when she was young.
• 1:23:00
  So yeah, it's, it's quite a moving read, her autobiography.
• 1:23:04
  And I'm, I'm not usually like a massive fan of autobiographies,
• 1:23:07
  but it's very honest and open and yeah, it's a good read.
• 1:23:13
  What I what I do think worked well with both Polly and Ben is
• 1:23:18
  how much respect they have for the Doctor already, and just how
• 1:23:22
  that felt like a UNIT, even though they've clearly only been
• 1:23:25
  roaming around the universe for a couple of stories.
• 1:23:28
  So I'll take the Doctor now then.
• 1:23:31
  I actually wrote a note about 100 pages in, in Cole's hand.
• 1:23:36
  The Doctor is the wisest and most intelligent person in the
• 1:23:38
  room, but he doesn't show it off as everybody else is reacting to
• 1:23:42
  anything. He's in the shadows, quietly and
• 1:23:45
  keenly, keenly taking it all in and putting it all together.
• 1:23:50
  And I thought this was a brilliant, brilliant depiction
• 1:23:54
  of William Hartnell's Doctor. And like I think you said, how
• 1:23:58
  does the First Doctor fit into this reimagined Battlestar
• 1:24:01
  Galactica on an asteroid? With all these horrific things
• 1:24:04
  going on. But he is just there sort of
• 1:24:07
  clutching his repair and just figuring it all out.
• 1:24:09
  And everybody throughout the book is slowly deferring to his
• 1:24:13
  intelligence and his his authority.
• 1:24:17
  There's a wonderful bit where it's a he says the doctor was
• 1:24:21
  back on his feet. He flapped his heavy frock coat
• 1:24:24
  at the creature like a matador waving his cloak before a raging
• 1:24:28
  ball. And I just, I just wrote, I
• 1:24:30
  desperately want to see William Hartnell doing that.
• 1:24:32
  Frankly, I'm not sure what he was trying to distract.
• 1:24:36
  And he had so many great quotes. I thought all the doctor
• 1:24:39
  dialogue was just perfect, he says.
• 1:24:40
  At one point you put a good deal of trust in machines, but I
• 1:24:44
  prefer to draw my own. Conclusions.
• 1:24:47
  You know which you can hear Hartnell saying.
• 1:24:50
  Who gave you all the answers, old man?
• 1:24:52
  No one gives me answers, Sir. I seek them out for myself as
• 1:24:56
  anyone can. It's just banger after banger
• 1:24:59
  like that from the doctor and especially great was 2 quotes
• 1:25:05
  which I'd like to read at the end of the book.
• 1:25:08
  So there's as they're all sort of going their separate ways.
• 1:25:11
  The doctor sort of tries to reach out to the survivors and
• 1:25:14
  hope that actually they're going to go on and not rage this
• 1:25:17
  horrible war. And he says, can you not take
• 1:25:20
  understanding away with you from your experiences here?
• 1:25:24
  Compassion for those who plight seems desperate.
• 1:25:27
  Go to your leaders urge to speak to them with the sure sure.
• 1:25:31
  I think he chose a deliberately annoying spelling to take this
• 1:25:35
  opportunity to negotiate. A Peach, a Peach, a peace.
• 1:25:40
  You may prevent similar atrocities in the future, which
• 1:25:45
  is great, but you just know that's going to fall on deaf
• 1:25:47
  ears and no one's going to listen to him.
• 1:25:50
  And then finally, you had another quote here.
• 1:25:53
  Believing in magic is easy. The reaction of a cowardly mind
• 1:25:56
  to explain away any phenomenon that vexes the intellects.
• 1:26:00
  But finding magic in the realities of existence, seeking
• 1:26:04
  out some hidden truth to cling on to from every painful
• 1:26:07
  experience we endure, that is never easy.
• 1:26:10
  That takes courage. And he's just written with that
• 1:26:14
  sense of poetry and that level of intelligence throughout the
• 1:26:17
  entire book. So I, I thought this was one of
• 1:26:20
  the best depictions of Hartnell in a book and I could just see
• 1:26:24
  him, really see him in this book where William Hartle does not
• 1:26:30
  belong, frankly. What about you guys?
• 1:26:32
  What about? What about you, Luke?
• 1:26:35
  I I thought Cole got Hartnell down perfectly, but showed a
• 1:26:42
  little bit of restraint. And it's the restraint that I
• 1:26:45
  appreciate because I don't want to have to read every chapter
• 1:26:49
  that oh, the First Doctor just fluffed that line.
• 1:26:53
  Then he says it again, like, come on, it's the way the TV was
• 1:26:56
  made. He only got 1 take.
• 1:26:58
  He fucking fluffed it. Let's move on.
• 1:27:00
  But writers will like to put a little bit of that into their
• 1:27:02
  books all the time. And I'm like, no, the first
• 1:27:08
  doctors not really like like that.
• 1:27:10
  It's just the way TV was made. Stop doing that.
• 1:27:12
  He doesn't do it. Not not a single time.
• 1:27:15
  And I could imagine him saying everything in this book.
• 1:27:20
  Even I could imagine Hartnell just enjoying some of that, that
• 1:27:24
  dialogue. This this doctor he has, he's
• 1:27:27
  curious. He has a glint gleam in his eye.
• 1:27:30
  He's he's a little cheeky. He's he's almost a little trail
• 1:27:35
  esque with how quiet he is at sometimes just taking things in.
• 1:27:41
  There's not too many references to his upcoming regeneration,
• 1:27:45
  which I'm also thankful for. You get a book, a book or an
• 1:27:48
  audio set at this in this time period.
• 1:27:52
  Here we go. We're going to mention it.
• 1:27:53
  Yeah, it is. And we're going to mention again
• 1:27:56
  and and. It was 1 though, wasn't it?
• 1:27:59
  He says at. Least one.
• 1:28:01
  Soon I shall feel a new person. What the hell are you talking
• 1:28:05
  about though? Yeah, I don't mind that.
• 1:28:07
  That's just like 1 time out of the book.
• 1:28:10
  I feel like a lot of stories around this area era will want
• 1:28:14
  to focus on the fact that he's going to change soon.
• 1:28:17
  This book doesn't focus on that, that he's going to change soon.
• 1:28:20
  There's one little line focuses more on just being a an
• 1:28:24
  adventure for for these three characters instead.
• 1:28:26
  So I appreciated that too. Not making it about him.
• 1:28:30
  Well, about to die. Because Doctor Who fans do like
• 1:28:35
  joining together doors, don't they?
• 1:28:38
  What? Props to Steve Cole for
• 1:28:40
  resisting that. What did you think that Andrew?
• 1:28:41
  What about the First Doctor? Yeah, really, really similar to
• 1:28:44
  what what you both said. I think it captures him really
• 1:28:47
  well. And yeah, there were a few
• 1:28:51
  little hints of the sort of regeneration stuff, but it was
• 1:28:55
  kind of restrained. There were a few nice bits where
• 1:28:59
  where I think a couple of characters, or maybe it was the
• 1:29:02
  aliens, kind of picked up on the fact that the Doctor is so like
• 1:29:06
  young and alive and full of life on the inside.
• 1:29:12
  But he's got this kind of failing body on the outside.
• 1:29:15
  Which was with a nice, nice way of kind of summing up his
• 1:29:18
  character and how kind of alert his senses are and how his mind
• 1:29:21
  is working out all of these problems, even though he's kind
• 1:29:23
  of in the background. So yeah, a really strong book
• 1:29:28
  for the 1st Doctor, I think. Did you laugh when he was
• 1:29:30
  dragged up that lift shaft? That someone just picks him.
• 1:29:33
  Up with one arm, don't they? He's like on hand Me, Sir.
• 1:29:36
  Anything pulled up? I also laughed when they all had
• 1:29:39
  to get naked. Oh yeah, let's not think about
• 1:29:43
  that too. Much.
• 1:29:43
  Oh no. Ben though.
• 1:29:45
  Ben, hello. Thank God John Curran was on
• 1:29:48
  point that episode of The Smugglers.
• 1:29:50
  OK. There was, and they do, like you
• 1:29:54
  say, they do talk about how frail he is as well.
• 1:29:56
  There's one quote here. The Doctor looked about himself
• 1:29:59
  nervously, not with the usual air of brilliant academic, but
• 1:30:02
  as a bewildered, frightened old man.
• 1:30:05
  And then he goes, how can we resist such evil, which you can
• 1:30:09
  imagine? Arnold saying absolutely.
• 1:30:13
  OK, so sort of a mixed response to the regulars.
• 1:30:19
  Well, I'm going to throw it out to you guys now to whatever
• 1:30:21
  notes you might have on the book or anything we haven't talked
• 1:30:24
  about because we haven't sort of talked about how gross this book
• 1:30:27
  is and there's a couple of moments.
• 1:30:29
  So let's go back to Andrew first.
• 1:30:32
  Anything we haven't covered? I just wanted to talk a little
• 1:30:35
  bit about the title of the book, which I think we should address.
• 1:30:41
  And yeah, I don't know if I like it.
• 1:30:46
  I don't know if it was a wise choice to choose this particular
• 1:30:51
  title. So and then there were none.
• 1:30:55
  The book which this draws on from Christie's Canon was
• 1:30:58
  originally titled published under a different title, which,
• 1:31:03
  you know, let's just say it's 10 Little N Words, which proved
• 1:31:08
  controversial, I think from the very moment it was published.
• 1:31:11
  I think it was never published under that title in America.
• 1:31:14
  So it went through various different iterations of.
• 1:31:17
  Wait, it was first called what? Yeah, did you not know this?
• 1:31:21
  It was like a lot of her books. I think it was from like a
• 1:31:24
  nursery rhyme. A racist nursery rhyme.
• 1:31:27
  I mean, it's said the nursery rhyme I think is said in the
• 1:31:30
  Celestia, isn't it? Yeah.
• 1:31:33
  And so it was then, I think it was 10 little Indians and then
• 1:31:38
  10 little soldiers. And then it became and then
• 1:31:41
  there were none. And I think, I mean, a lot of
• 1:31:46
  the chat, all of the chapter titles in this are drawn from
• 1:31:49
  Christy. And I just think, you know, it's
• 1:31:52
  a it's a clever, clever title, but it's harking to something
• 1:31:55
  that's quite unpleasant. And yeah, it feels odd to me as
• 1:32:02
  well that it was republished quite recently under the same
• 1:32:04
  title, because it's it's a play on something, but it's a play on
• 1:32:07
  something that, I mean, I don't think that we really want near
• 1:32:11
  Doctor Who. So yeah, just it just feels a
• 1:32:15
  bit grubby to me and I wish they'd called it something else.
• 1:32:18
  Can you actually believe that Rusty Davies admitted in the
• 1:32:24
  writer's tale that between him and Gareth Roberts, they were
• 1:32:28
  trying to get that title into Unicorn and the Wasp?
• 1:32:32
  Yeah, I mean that again. I mean, I think that bit of the
• 1:32:36
  writer's tale. I mean, I think it's just a
• 1:32:37
  joke, but it's, again, it's something.
• 1:32:40
  He says how it could be done, though doesn't.
• 1:32:41
  He yeah, yeah. It's, it's one of those things
• 1:32:45
  that is kind of indicative of how insensitive people were
• 1:32:50
  about talking about this stuff at the time.
• 1:32:52
  And how I think people kind of thought we lived in this post
• 1:32:55
  racist world where joking about that kind of stuff was all
• 1:32:59
  right. And we will just accept that
• 1:33:01
  racism wasn't really a thing anymore, which was very naive
• 1:33:04
  and completely wrong and has been, you know, kind of rightly
• 1:33:08
  shot down in more recent years. So, yeah.
• 1:33:14
  And also, you know, the stuff we talked about with Ben in this
• 1:33:17
  book, and there's other stuff around race and the way that
• 1:33:19
  some of the characters are kind of spoken about in the in the
• 1:33:24
  prose of the book as well. It's like there's just some,
• 1:33:26
  there's some dodgy things around race with this book and the
• 1:33:30
  title kind of exacerbates them. So yeah, just to kind of, yeah,
• 1:33:35
  some of that stuff made me feel a bit uncomfortable.
• 1:33:37
  We have, we have spoken before, didn't we?
• 1:33:40
  Like we're talking about blood Harvest and things like that,
• 1:33:42
  about these books in the 90s going into the noughties, that
• 1:33:48
  sometimes there was just some blindness in there, you know?
• 1:33:51
  And in in the hope to be edgy, there's some ick.
• 1:33:58
  Yeah, that's very nonspecific. That's how I wish to be right
• 1:34:01
  now. I mean, I'll.
• 1:34:02
  Save my bot. I don't think there's anything
• 1:34:05
  troublesome at all about Steve Cole, that I don't think he was
• 1:34:07
  pushing any kind of racist agenda, because I just don't
• 1:34:11
  think he's that person. No, I don't think so.
• 1:34:14
  I think it's just from a kind of place of naivety and thinking,
• 1:34:17
  you know, oh, it's fine to just, that's a clever.
• 1:34:19
  Pun. That's a clever pun, yeah.
• 1:34:23
  Annoyingly, it's absolutely linked to the plot.
• 1:34:26
  That title, isn't it? What would you have called it
• 1:34:29
  instead? Oh, I don't know, but you know,
• 1:34:32
  there's, there's plenty of Christie titles and puns that
• 1:34:35
  that you could do. And I, I think I can't remember
• 1:34:39
  if it's in the introduction, it might be in I who, which I read
• 1:34:43
  the entry on this one. I think there's a bit where it
• 1:34:46
  talks about, Oh, it was going to be published under this title.
• 1:34:48
  We were going to change the title to something else.
• 1:34:50
  But then, oh, someone else convinced me that it was it was
• 1:34:53
  a great title and we should stick with 10 Little aliens.
• 1:34:56
  Was it Gareth Roberts? I just, I don't know, I can't
• 1:35:00
  remember. I don't have it.
• 1:35:02
  Don't have it here with me now. But yeah, yeah, there was a way
• 1:35:06
  out of this, guys. Luke.
• 1:35:10
  All right, there's a few little things.
• 1:35:12
  There's this cute moment where Polly is reading Ben's mind
• 1:35:17
  because of all got the devices on and she's like Ben even
• 1:35:20
  thought in a cockney accent. So I I I find that found that a
• 1:35:26
  bit cute. And one of my favorite parts of
• 1:35:28
  the whole book is we get this amazing little glimpse into the
• 1:35:32
  doctor's mind via Polly when they all put the things on and
• 1:35:36
  then he shuts it all down. He goes no one you don't you
• 1:35:39
  know, he shuts it all down. No one needs to really see that
• 1:35:42
  And and the fact that whilst he's shut his own mind down and
• 1:35:46
  whilst he's walking with Haunt and doing stuff, he's having
• 1:35:49
  like several conversations telepathically at once using
• 1:35:52
  these devices just to send them all out.
• 1:35:55
  I'm like, that's really freaking cool.
• 1:35:57
  And just one little fan Winky note that I want to point out
• 1:36:01
  that I liked because it's a book reference rather than ATV Show
• 1:36:04
  1. There's a nifty little Venusian
• 1:36:06
  Lullaby reference on section 17 in the Choose Your Own Adventure
• 1:36:10
  bit. So I think that's so I really I
• 1:36:15
  really like that book and Mr. Leonard in general really say
• 1:36:20
  that was that was kind of nice or either like that I was
• 1:36:22
  reading into it. Either way, we don't have.
• 1:36:26
  Not yet. We have not.
• 1:36:28
  Right, add it to the list. Nadina Haunt, aged 39.
• 1:36:33
  Visual white female scourge of the Cher on 20 worlds from Idaho
• 1:36:39
  to New Jersey. If our beloved staff haired ever
• 1:36:42
  wore all her hard won middleware she'd need anti grams just to
• 1:36:45
  keep her upright. Joined elite after making
• 1:36:48
  Marshall following 15 years of frontline service.
• 1:36:52
  Served in every war zone going and survived everything Bashir
• 1:36:56
  could throw at her. Now she's throwing you back at
• 1:36:59
  them. Soldier be worth it now you're
• 1:37:01
  here. So yeah, and just he manages to
• 1:37:11
  work in some references to future stories that usually
• 1:37:15
  would piss me off. Like like what you mentioned
• 1:37:18
  Spectrox in this book for like it it's a kind of that's the
• 1:37:22
  kind of fan wanky thing that John Peel would just cram in his
• 1:37:26
  books like about 1000 times. He's just mentioned Spectrox
• 1:37:29
  once and twice just moves on. So he's he's kind of steals away
• 1:37:33
  from from that kind of Hartnell bookstore storytelling, which is
• 1:37:38
  good. By Craig Hinton and Gary
• 1:37:41
  Russell. And yeah, that's that.
• 1:37:44
  More of a problem. I don't mind a bit of Gary
• 1:37:46
  Russell fan link and some of Hinton's is good, but John
• 1:37:50
  Peel's style of it, like go away.
• 1:37:56
  Yeah. But other than that, I think we
• 1:37:59
  covered most of my almost all of my notes.
• 1:38:02
  I'll probably just think of things as soon as we're done
• 1:38:05
  looking at them later. 2 notes to add before we sort of
• 1:38:08
  summarise our thoughts. And that one is actually the
• 1:38:11
  Doctor. Penn and Polly are technically
• 1:38:13
  the murderers in this book because it's explicitly stated
• 1:38:17
  the second they materialised three people had to die because
• 1:38:20
  they could only be 10 people alive.
• 1:38:22
  So technically they are the killers, which is quite amusing.
• 1:38:26
  But there was a number of very graphic moments in the the
• 1:38:30
  finale of the book that I was just going a bit.
• 1:38:34
  Where Robot bit out his own tongue was absolutely gross.
• 1:38:39
  But worst of all was Commander Haunt being snogged by the
• 1:38:45
  skirt. And then what's the line?
• 1:38:48
  He bit off her head and it went rolling down his black throat to
• 1:38:52
  melt in his guts. Lovely stuff.
• 1:38:56
  Yummy. But I don't mind a bit.
• 1:39:00
  Of gross in these books. OK, well then, oh, actually,
• 1:39:05
  before we summarise our thoughts very quickly, can I just read
• 1:39:08
  out to you, please? And I would like you both to
• 1:39:10
  tell me whether this book adheres to the rules standards
• 1:39:15
  of a good detective story. All right, I'm going to throw
• 1:39:19
  one. I'm going to throw them back,
• 1:39:20
  Asia. So I'll start with you, Luke #1
• 1:39:25
  the crime must be significant. Yes, I'd say this, yes. 10 dead
• 1:39:33
  bodies, Yeah, it's significant. And they're all the fucking
• 1:39:36
  traitors that they've been searching for, for for how long?
• 1:39:39
  So yeah. Well done Steve Cole #2 Andrew
• 1:39:44
  the detective must be memorable. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:39:47
  It's it's, it's Doctor Who. Doctor Bloody Who?
• 1:39:51
  Yeah. Well done Steve Cole #3 Luke the
• 1:39:54
  criminal must be a worthy opponent.
• 1:39:59
  Oh. Andrew looks.
• 1:40:01
  I'm convinced. I'll say I'll say no for that
• 1:40:06
  one. Get out of town.
• 1:40:09
  Steve Cole. OK #4 Andrew.
• 1:40:12
  The suspects must appear early in the story.
• 1:40:16
  Yes, tick the 1st. Page Well done, Steve Cole. #5
• 1:40:24
  Luke. The clues must be made available
• 1:40:26
  to the reader. Well, I, yeah, I, I, I guess to
• 1:40:31
  us, yeah. But fire the clues.
• 1:40:34
  So yes, tick. You got to read that fucking
• 1:40:37
  interminable Choose your own adventure chapter.
• 1:40:41
  It's not as bad as chapter 6 the Goth Opera though, right?
• 1:40:45
  I'm so pleased this last one was going to Andrew number six.
• 1:40:49
  The solution must be reasonable and possible.
• 1:40:56
  I mean, I guess it is. It's just not particularly
• 1:40:59
  satisfying in this instance. But yeah, I mean, he, he, he
• 1:41:04
  takes off all the, all the reasons why, why Horn would be
• 1:41:08
  motivated to do this stuff. So yeah, I guess so.
• 1:41:10
  All right, so we're going to give you a tentative 5 out of 6.
• 1:41:14
  Well done. Steve OK, well Andrew, what did
• 1:41:18
  you summarise your thoughts on 10 Little Aliens?
• 1:41:21
  I had AI had another question for you. 2 So this book, the
• 1:41:26
  addition I think that we all read, was selected to be the to
• 1:41:31
  represent the 1st Doctor in this series of 50th anniversary
• 1:41:34
  reprints. Do you think that it was the
• 1:41:38
  right choice, and if not, what should it have been?
• 1:41:44
  I can say that it was probably one of the easiest choices
• 1:41:47
  because they didn't have to do much to clear it.
• 1:41:51
  Because Steve Cole works for the BBC.
• 1:41:54
  Can I just mention a nitpick? Why did they do Remembrance of
• 1:41:59
  the Daleks? Come on, I can watch that and
• 1:42:02
  the novelization is easy to get. He got like 50 plus new
• 1:42:07
  adventures there. 1 barrows over 200.
• 1:42:11
  Dollars I I think, I think they did that because they wanted a
• 1:42:16
  Dalek 1 and because Ben Aronovich is a bit of a name and
• 1:42:19
  they couldn't reprint Transit so.
• 1:42:23
  They gave us human nature. Come on.
• 1:42:28
  Yeah. Oh, that was in the another,
• 1:42:31
  Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't have chosen
• 1:42:33
  that one either. Not because of the quality, but
• 1:42:35
  just because that's easy to bloody purchase.
• 1:42:38
  What first Doctor novel would I have chosen instead?
• 1:42:43
  Oh, there's so many great ones. I feel like if you're a Doctor
• 1:42:47
  Who book fan and you're a Hartnell fan, you're going to be
• 1:42:50
  all right. Witch Hunters is the easiest
• 1:42:53
  one, not just because it's the Lions, but it's bloody good.
• 1:42:56
  Time travels. The time travels will be really
• 1:42:59
  cool. Bunker Soldiers would be another
• 1:43:01
  great choice. All of them, really, I love.
• 1:43:06
  Yeah, the hit rate for hard. Notebooks is great, isn't it?
• 1:43:10
  I actually think this was a sound choice, one, because it's
• 1:43:13
  got quirky things in it, so things that make it stand out
• 1:43:17
  from the pack. 2 is a murder mystery, and I think that that's
• 1:43:21
  just a good choice to put in the mix.
• 1:43:23
  And three, I think it we said before, like, how do you put
• 1:43:27
  these things together? Arnold and Battlestar Glasgow
• 1:43:30
  and Agatha Christie. And actually I think that is a
• 1:43:34
  A1 line pitch that would get people intrigued.
• 1:43:37
  Like, how do you make that work? And he kind of does.
• 1:43:40
  So, yeah, I, I, I think the witch, no witch finders, no
• 1:43:46
  hunters. Hunters.
• 1:43:47
  Thank you. Witch hunters is is another
• 1:43:50
  really solid choice as well. But I can see why they went for
• 1:43:52
  this. And absolutely, as Steve Culbert
• 1:43:54
  was going to be in that tent. I actually think the witch
• 1:43:57
  hunters did get a reprint, but in another one of those reprint
• 1:44:00
  ranges that they did around the time anyway.
• 1:44:02
  So I guess I got my wish. I.
• 1:44:04
  Wish you Andrew. Yeah.
• 1:44:07
  I mean, I think it was a good choice in terms that it's it's
• 1:44:09
  good. I was surprised by how by some
• 1:44:15
  of the content in the book that the fact that it was reprinted
• 1:44:18
  in 2013, like it's a very violent book.
• 1:44:22
  And also there's there's lots of stuff about the particular, the
• 1:44:27
  character Frog and her past and how she's kind of been sexually
• 1:44:31
  abused as a child. I was like 02013 Doctor Who.
• 1:44:35
  This is really surprising. So I guess, you know, a lot of
• 1:44:39
  the books that we worry would never be read if this is our
• 1:44:43
  kind of benchmark. Could be.
• 1:44:46
  But yeah, I think, yeah, it was. It was an unusual choice and
• 1:44:49
  unusual to go for like the Doctor Ben and 1st Doctor Ben
• 1:44:53
  and Polly. I think normally you'd kind of
• 1:44:55
  gravitate to the sort of Ian, Barbara, Susan line up if you're
• 1:44:59
  going to do this. So yeah, I commend them for
• 1:45:01
  doing something unexpected, but I would have gone for Time and
• 1:45:06
  Relative, the Telos novella, and maybe box it out with a few
• 1:45:11
  short stories or something to kind of bring it up to the page
• 1:45:13
  count. But I think that's probably my
• 1:45:15
  favorite First Doctor story in print.
• 1:45:19
  In a double bill with imaginary friends, even though it wasn't
• 1:45:21
  written. Ten years before.
• 1:45:25
  Although you look at that collection, right?
• 1:45:26
  And some of them I'm like, yeah, absolutely can see why you chose
• 1:45:30
  those. And others.
• 1:45:31
  I'm like, really, what's going on there?
• 1:45:34
  Yeah. I think like, like Luke said, it
• 1:45:36
  was sort of the convenience and which ones they could easily get
• 1:45:39
  the rights to, but I wish they'd just gone for which ones did the
• 1:45:42
  fans really want and are really difficult to find on eBay.
• 1:45:44
  But that's just me, so. Long seen young barrels dying.
• 1:45:52
  No, they'll be putting out 2 million people out of business.
• 1:45:54
  You know they're getting subsidiaries.
• 1:45:57
  All right, well then, overall thoughts on 10 little aliens,
• 1:46:01
  Luke? It's really good.
• 1:46:04
  It like, all right, if you're the kind of guy he's going to
• 1:46:08
  get bent out of shape that you guessed who the murderer is.
• 1:46:12
  Well, you might not like it, but I I was sort of disappointed,
• 1:46:15
  but also a little bit like, hey, I got it.
• 1:46:17
  I'm yeah, he me, but I love the sci-fi ideas.
• 1:46:20
  That's where I'm at. This is Heinlein in here things.
• 1:46:24
  They're not just Starship Troopers.
• 1:46:26
  There's like little touches of like maybe Stranger in a Strange
• 1:46:29
  Land and a couple other things in there as well.
• 1:46:32
  You've got the Battlestar Galactica references there too.
• 1:46:34
  You've got the 9/11 references with all the the sheer bombings
• 1:46:39
  and the human reprisals and things like that.
• 1:46:43
  Human engines, the sci-fi ideas. I remember messaging you guys
• 1:46:47
  going this Coles blown my mind with all these ideas.
• 1:46:50
  You won't just stop. I love your messages.
• 1:46:54
  Oh, we didn't even talk. See those messages?
• 1:46:58
  They what those used to be right, was me going to to
• 1:47:02
  charity and being like, Oh my God, and then this happens.
• 1:47:05
  She's like, thank God you found those people across the palms.
• 1:47:09
  Yeah, so this like I was messing you guys going like so many good
• 1:47:13
  ideas and we didn't even really even touch on the little statue
• 1:47:17
  cherubs. Oh look, the statues that attack
• 1:47:20
  people, huh? So there's so many things in
• 1:47:24
  this book that, yeah, nothing really.
• 1:47:29
  Like if there's something in it that you're not gelling with, I
• 1:47:32
  feel like there's something in it that you will.
• 1:47:34
  And those things are done really well.
• 1:47:36
  That might be different. Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:47:38
  It's it's a really cool mash up and I dig it.
• 1:47:41
  It's worth a read. It doesn't need the gimmick
• 1:47:44
  though. Yeah, I think I'd agree with all
• 1:47:48
  of that. It's it's a good read and
• 1:47:51
  probably not one that I maybe would have pulled off the shelf
• 1:47:57
  if we weren't doing the book club, just because I knew that
• 1:48:00
  it was a very kind of Space Marines type story, which are
• 1:48:03
  usually not my faves. But yeah, it's it's doing lots
• 1:48:06
  of really interesting things. It's packing in loads of ideas,
• 1:48:09
  loads of concepts, and I feel like the reason it's overflowing
• 1:48:13
  with those concepts is kind of because of the mystery angle to
• 1:48:17
  it in that it's kind of trying to misinterrupt you in different
• 1:48:20
  rays and kind of distract you with, oh, now there's some magic
• 1:48:23
  going on over here. Now there's some fireflies that
• 1:48:26
  are kind of sucking their blood over here.
• 1:48:29
  Yeah, it's kind of. Yeah.
• 1:48:31
  It's a very clever, well constructed story.
• 1:48:34
  And yeah, I think although none of us like absolutely loved the
• 1:48:39
  choose your own adventure there. It's still, it's still an
• 1:48:43
  achievement what he's done with that and the way that he kind of
• 1:48:46
  meshes it into the story. So there's a kind of in story
• 1:48:50
  reason why it's happening. It's not just a kind of inserted
• 1:48:55
  in to to just do it for the sake of it.
• 1:48:59
  There's a kind of justification for it.
• 1:49:01
  So yeah, recommended. I was.
• 1:49:05
  I went intensively because I knew you'd already started
• 1:49:07
  Andrew, and I'd already spoken to you and you'd said, yeah, I'm
• 1:49:11
  not sure about the start of this book.
• 1:49:13
  And I actually remember getting sort of page 40 and thinking,
• 1:49:16
  this isn't as good as I remember.
• 1:49:18
  I love this book. And then I got to page like 125
• 1:49:22
  somewhere around the middle of the book going, my God, this is
• 1:49:26
  so much better than I remember it being.
• 1:49:28
  You know, this is great and I think the highest compliment I
• 1:49:32
  can give the book is it kept me on my toes constantly.
• 1:49:36
  And I have just read in succession, The Stranger by
• 1:49:40
  Portia de Costa, 10 Little Aliens.
• 1:49:43
  That's this War of the Daleks by John Peel and The Beast of Fang
• 1:49:47
  Rock by Andy, Frank and Alan. I'll tell you what, none of
• 1:49:50
  those books kept me on my toes. And I think I can kind of
• 1:49:54
  pinpoint exactly what I'm talking about with the character
• 1:49:57
  of Frog, who is introduced as this very unpleasant person
• 1:50:04
  who's sarcastic and a bit nasty and a bit sadistic and ugly.
• 1:50:09
  You know, like bulgy eyes and, and a voice box and an
• 1:50:13
  unpleasant voice. And you're thinking, oh, God,
• 1:50:16
  when are you going to die? You're really horrible.
• 1:50:19
  And then somewhere in the middle of the book, she says to one of
• 1:50:23
  the other soldiers, you know, oh, I thought you were coming on
• 1:50:26
  to me. And then she literally says, and
• 1:50:28
  it broke my heart. And she goes, I'll turn the
• 1:50:31
  torch off if you want. You don't have to look at me.
• 1:50:34
  And I was just like, oh, my God, that's really sad.
• 1:50:37
  Like, that's really, really awful.
• 1:50:38
  And I've no men. Men have said that to me in the
• 1:50:41
  past. And I'm like, please, you're
• 1:50:43
  very pretty. And, and the book kept doing
• 1:50:47
  things like that. It kept surprising me like that.
• 1:50:49
  And sometimes it was with the racism and the the classism and
• 1:50:53
  sometimes it was with the twist and sometimes it was with the
• 1:50:55
  sci-fi ideas, but it just kept me guessing all the way through.
• 1:50:59
  And so this is a recommend for me as well.
• 1:51:01
  I'd I'd say it's like a solid 8 out of 10 for me, or an Andrew
• 1:51:06
  Scale 4 out of 5I. Do like a frog gets to end the
• 1:51:11
  book singing so Lisa gets her voice back so she can sing now
• 1:51:16
  but so there's a there's a little sort of for for her
• 1:51:20
  spoiler that she she leaves. Oh.
• 1:51:23
  I'm so pleased you've got some enjoyment out because this was
• 1:51:25
  my recommend something. She enjoyed it a little bit.
• 1:51:28
  Well, what about recommends for the listeners then?
• 1:51:32
  This time round, let's go. I don't know.
• 1:51:35
  I keep sort of batting back and forth.
• 1:51:37
  Let's go to Andrew first. So I have chosen a book that is
• 1:51:44
  ABBC Past Doctor Adventures novel features Ben and Polly and
• 1:51:48
  it's also a murder mystery I've chosen.
• 1:51:51
  I know what it is, the murder. Game.
• 1:51:53
  There we go by Steve Lyon. Who?
• 1:51:58
  Fave hot fave Steve Lyons. So the murder game was, I think
• 1:52:04
  it might have been the 2nd or the 3rd in the series.
• 1:52:09
  I remember I must, I'd have been 10 years old when this came out
• 1:52:13
  and I picked it up in our local bookshop and I just absolutely
• 1:52:19
  devoured it and I loved it. And it was probably like, I
• 1:52:22
  think I'd only read like one other sort of missing adventure
• 1:52:25
  before this. And I'd found that one a bit of
• 1:52:28
  a struggle because I was a bit, I was a bit young for, for the
• 1:52:32
  kind of complexity of it. But this one really worked for
• 1:52:38
  me, and I just remember, like, reading it with my torched under
• 1:52:40
  the covers, trying to get through it and discover who the
• 1:52:43
  killer was, what the mystery was.
• 1:52:46
  So yeah, the concept of this one is that the Doctor, Ben and
• 1:52:48
  Polly arrive on a space station where there's a murder mystery
• 1:52:52
  party happening. So they all have to kind of get
• 1:52:55
  dressed up as as characters in this murder mystery and
• 1:52:59
  inevitably somebody dies and they've got to solve the story.
• 1:53:03
  And at the same time the space station is being invaded by
• 1:53:06
  these shark like aliens. Salacians.
• 1:53:10
  Salacians. So this is the book that
• 1:53:12
  introduced them. And yet a Doctor Who murder
• 1:53:16
  mystery. Just it it works really well.
• 1:53:20
  It's a it's a kind of genre that that Doctor Who slots into
• 1:53:24
  really well. And yeah, they should do more of
• 1:53:27
  them on the TV. I'm so pleased you love Terror
• 1:53:30
  of the Verve always, you know. I do love terror.
• 1:53:36
  Luke, what have you got for us? Let's just make that 3.
• 1:53:41
  I also like Terror of the Verveoids.
• 1:53:44
  I went to a book club near you. Commentary on terror of the
• 1:53:47
  Verbo. It's my tricksuit.
• 1:53:53
  Does one of us just read the book and the other two comment?
• 1:53:58
  Well? I recommend.
• 1:53:58
  I'm not the biggest new series fan.
• 1:54:01
  I don't hate it, I've always liked it.
• 1:54:03
  I've just never had the same passionate love for it as I do
• 1:54:08
  the old stuff. But it's good.
• 1:54:10
  But sometimes I read something that may that all and it makes
• 1:54:15
  you go like, all right, there's something here that I've missed
• 1:54:18
  the first time around watching it or something like that.
• 1:54:21
  There's something in this book that just makes that era pop out
• 1:54:24
  to me. I heard Mr. Joe recommended at
• 1:54:27
  least on two different podcasts. I read Robert Schumann's Dalek.
• 1:54:32
  Oh yes. And.
• 1:54:35
  Isn't. It.
• 1:54:36
  It's just it's shits on the telly story.
• 1:54:38
  Like it really does. It does.
• 1:54:40
  And I like that. That's my favorite story that
• 1:54:42
  season. Like, I like the Moffat 2 parter
• 1:54:44
  as well. The finale's pretty decent.
• 1:54:47
  But for me, yeah, so I heard too many good things about this
• 1:54:52
  book. So I was like, I'll get this.
• 1:54:54
  I read the shit out of it and I absolutely loved it.
• 1:54:57
  It's it's got stories on people who were just glimpsed or just
• 1:55:02
  faceless or just guards that don't say much or do much.
• 1:55:05
  They've got complete backstories and they're complete pieces of
• 1:55:08
  garbage or something's going on with them.
• 1:55:12
  It's just amazing. Like the actual story of the TV
• 1:55:17
  show itself is maybe about 30 pages of this book.
• 1:55:22
  And because it's a pretty straightforward story and and
• 1:55:27
  rather than just go into detail about do that whole story, but
• 1:55:31
  this thick, he just expands on all the characters and stuff in
• 1:55:35
  so many different interesting ways.
• 1:55:37
  Like his second in command is is is really like a fed or
• 1:55:42
  something like all this kind of stuff, like his tragic
• 1:55:49
  upbringing and stuff. I see it as tragic.
• 1:55:51
  He sees it as probably fantastic as yes, but so, so many events
• 1:55:56
  that and I think and Adam's past all this kind of stuff.
• 1:55:59
  I really, really enjoyed it. Actually.
• 1:56:02
  I was blown away as well. So yeah, Dalek by Robert
• 1:56:09
  Sherman, This is one of those books where I finish it and I
• 1:56:11
  read it and I'm angry in the same way I'm angry.
• 1:56:16
  Nick Wallace and Stephen Marley only wrote one Doctor Who book.
• 1:56:19
  I'm angry that he only wrote one episode of the telly show, and
• 1:56:22
  he won't get to novelize those either.
• 1:56:25
  So yeah. He did also write a short story
• 1:56:28
  in the story of Martha as well. Maybe you should get that one.
• 1:56:34
  After stealing my book author to go onto the TVI was really
• 1:56:40
  scared you was going to steal my recommend there as well because
• 1:56:43
  I've also. Chosen a new series target.
• 1:56:47
  And I just wanted to like read. I've read so much for the book
• 1:56:50
  club lately and taken notes. I just wanted to read a book, a
• 1:56:53
  quickbook, and not take notes just one time.
• 1:56:57
  So I just picked this up and I really, really thought it was a
• 1:57:02
  great adaptation as The Witch Finders by Joy Wilkinson.
• 1:57:08
  And I was kind of blown away by it because it took the bare
• 1:57:12
  bones of the the TV episode and it gains so much insight into
• 1:57:17
  Becca Savage and Willa Twiston and their family relationship.
• 1:57:24
  And Becca Savage is fleshed out. I mean, Siobhan Finneran is so
• 1:57:27
  wonderful in the episode, but she's fleshed out in all these
• 1:57:30
  ways. Like you find out that she
• 1:57:32
  married her husband for the lands and the properties.
• 1:57:35
  And then you. She discovered just how she
• 1:57:37
  murdered him as well to get the lands and the properties and
• 1:57:40
  then sort of how this paranoia of people trying to take power
• 1:57:44
  off, and it's all because she came from sort of the lower
• 1:57:47
  classes and she was really scared.
• 1:57:49
  So it gave her proper motives. It's great insight into King
• 1:57:54
  James as well. Much more history than the TV
• 1:57:58
  episode. Had chance to give you some
• 1:58:01
  extra dialogue in there. A brilliant reading on Jodie
• 1:58:04
  Whitaker's 13th Doctor and going.
• 1:58:06
  Getting this one very odd bit when she starts talking about
• 1:58:08
  the last time she was on trial and you get a whole page about
• 1:58:12
  trial of a Time Lord, which is very odd.
• 1:58:13
  So in the middle of this book. I can see you going off on
• 1:58:16
  tangents though. Like chapter 6 of Goth Opry you
• 1:58:19
  know, but a lot of her thinking about being a woman now and what
• 1:58:25
  that means for her adventures. Which TV show didn't really
• 1:58:28
  touch too much, but the book does with some maturity?
• 1:58:31
  Yeah, I thought it was great. The only somewhat strange note
• 1:58:35
  and it worked for me, but. I tried to.
• 1:58:37
  Explain it on a strictly Cam hamster the other day and they
• 1:58:39
  all told me it sounds like Absolute Pap was the ending of
• 1:58:43
  the book where King James leads Willis Twiston and she has a
• 1:58:47
  terrible old life and she's facing the executioner's block
• 1:58:51
  and the doctor comes along and saves her and goes don't worry,
• 1:58:54
  I'm going to take you somewhere safe.
• 1:58:56
  Guess where she takes her? Go on Abogis.
• 1:59:01
  Salem. No, that would be dark.
• 1:59:06
  No. Any ideas?
• 1:59:08
  No. She takes her to the end of time
• 1:59:12
  to hang out with Clara and me. From series 9 I was like.
• 1:59:18
  What the hell is literally on the last page?
• 1:59:24
  Yeah, it was strange, but it kind of worked for me.
• 1:59:26
  I don't know, maybe it was just in the writing of the book.
• 1:59:28
  It's just extremely good prose as well.
• 1:59:30
  It's a very well written book. So another one and out in terms
• 1:59:34
  of the TV series and the books. But I'm glad we had Joy
• 1:59:38
  Wilkinson for this one story because it's it's a great book.
• 1:59:41
  Yeah, that's my recommend, coming to a book club near you.
• 1:59:46
  Well, Andrew, I did ask you yesterday when you visited what
• 1:59:50
  we were doing next time. I'm now going to make Luke do it
• 1:59:53
  as well. Now what we're doing next time.
• 1:59:57
  God, I hope we're I'm right now that because I'm 80.
• 2:00:00
  No, I'm 100 pages into it, but I've taken the dust jacket off
• 2:00:04
  because I don't like to get it wrecked.
• 2:00:05
  But we're reading Ruby red. I don't know why I'm showing
• 2:00:07
  everyone. It's an audio podcast, but Ruby
• 2:00:09
  red Yay by Georgia Cook. It's it's shooty Gatwa and
• 2:00:13
  Willie Gibson. I guess we're very time, I guess
• 2:00:16
  timely as as we can make it I guess.
• 2:00:20
  Besides, it's going to fill in the gap between first season 1
• 2:00:22
  and Season 2. We got some shooty shooty gobble
• 2:00:25
  books through. So yeah.
• 2:00:26
  The only person who hates dust jackets.
• 2:00:29
  I hate them. Yeah, me too.
• 2:00:31
  Slipping and sliding all over the place.
• 2:00:34
  That's why I gave Andrew a book yesterday with no book book
• 2:00:38
  jacket on it. Sorry, Andrew.
• 2:00:40
  Do they just go straight in the bin?
• 2:00:42
  I'm not sure where they are. If I'm honest with you, they're
• 2:00:44
  probably all in the bag somewhere tatty.
• 2:00:46
  And yeah, they should go in the bin.
• 2:00:47
  Yeah. Well, fellas, thank you very
• 2:00:51
  much for reading 10 Little Alias by Steve Cole, and we will
• 2:00:55
  assemble next. Oh, no, it's back to me
• 2:00:57
  finishing this off. Well, let's just say goodbye
• 2:01:01
  then. Bye.
• 2:01:04
  Goodbye. See ya.