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What’s up with Willson Contreras and the Cardinals? · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: Because it shows like, hey, our stars are, you know,
0:02
Speaker 1: not performing the way they want to, but we can
0:04
Speaker 1: still win.
0:04
Speaker 2: In that card.
0:09
Speaker 3: Welcome into North Side Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast.
0:14
Speaker 3: I'm Sahad Sharma with me, soon will be Patrick Mooney.
0:18
Speaker 3: We have Katie Wu as our guests, the Athletics Cardinals
0:23
Speaker 3: beat writer. Patrick and I are your Cubs beat writers
0:26
Speaker 3: and we are covering the red hot Cubs apparently. And
0:30
Speaker 3: that's why I'm recording this right now, because the Cubs
0:34
Speaker 3: have just swept the Baltimore Orioles. The Orioles came into
0:38
Speaker 3: this series as the best team in the AL and
0:42
Speaker 3: somehow the Cubs, who I think many had left for dead,
0:47
Speaker 3: have turned it around here shut down that vaunted Orioles offense.
0:52
Speaker 3: And I think that's the story right now. As good
0:56
Speaker 3: as this Cub's offense has looked the last few days
1:00
Speaker 3: at points during the Angels series, a nice eight nothing
1:03
Speaker 3: win on Thursday, that's great. The offense needs to blow
1:09
Speaker 3: teams out win games like they did this week. But
1:14
Speaker 3: it's it's the pitching. It's been the pitching all season long.
1:19
Speaker 3: Justin Steele is backing up last season's fifth place cy
1:24
Speaker 3: Young season. He is he is an All Star level pitcher.
1:29
Speaker 3: He's a cy Young caliber pitcher. I know he's not
1:31
Speaker 3: on the All Star team, but that's only because he
1:33
Speaker 3: was hurt. And it's looking more and more like that
1:36
Speaker 3: blip was exactly that, a blip. After he returned from
1:39
Speaker 3: the injured list, he is a dominant pitcher, showed him
1:43
Speaker 3: and Naga is an All Star. And they have two
1:46
Speaker 3: studs at the front of their rotation right now, which
1:48
Speaker 3: is giving them life and keeping them in games. And
1:52
Speaker 3: it seemed like it was being wasted in the first
1:54
Speaker 3: few months of the season, and here we are. Theyre's
1:57
Speaker 3: still not a five hundred. This isn't reason to celebrate,
2:00
Speaker 3: but they have life because of a mediocre NL and
2:05
Speaker 3: a dominant pitching staff right now. And I shouldn't ignore
2:08
Speaker 3: Jamison ty On who has been brilliant as well multiple
2:12
Speaker 3: pitchers with sub three e ras. We have Katie Wu
2:17
Speaker 3: on to talk about this upcoming series that was recorded
2:21
Speaker 3: earlier before the Cubs finished off the sweep against the Orioles.
2:26
Speaker 3: We'll get to that soon. I just wanted to touch
2:28
Speaker 3: on a couple of topics here. But you know, Michael
2:31
Speaker 3: Bush is looking like a great brilliant trade by Jed
2:35
Speaker 3: Hoyer and Carter Hawkins. They targeted a prospect that was blocked,
2:42
Speaker 3: that was ready for the big leagues and blocked in
2:43
Speaker 3: a great system in LA and they went after him.
2:47
Speaker 3: We'll see if it was a hefty price. Zire Hope
2:50
Speaker 3: and Jackson Ferris are young prospects at the lower levels.
2:54
Speaker 3: What they're doing right now doesn't really matter because Michael
2:58
Speaker 3: Bush has a fifty three OPS right now. He is
3:04
Speaker 3: one of the Cub's hottest hitters. But the reality is
3:07
Speaker 3: he's not their only hot hitter. Saya Suzuki is having
3:11
Speaker 3: another you know, bounce back stretch here, really impressing. That's
3:16
Speaker 3: a one forty one way to runs created plus for
3:19
Speaker 3: Michael Bush. I mean, that's probably my guess is that's
3:22
Speaker 3: going to be that's around top fifteen, top twenty in
3:28
Speaker 3: all of baseball. That's you know what I'll tell you
3:31
Speaker 3: right now, it's top eighteen, it's eighteenth in baseball, tied
3:35
Speaker 3: for seventeenth actually with Brandon Neimo and Josh Smith. That's
3:40
Speaker 3: that's the type of hitter you need leading your offense. Frankly,
3:44
Speaker 3: if you don't have Aaron Judge or show Heyo Tani
3:47
Speaker 3: this is this is kind of as good as it
3:49
Speaker 3: gets at that level. Saya Suzuki had another great game
3:52
Speaker 3: three for five with a triple and a double two
3:54
Speaker 3: doubles Ian Halp. You know, not his best game, but
3:59
Speaker 3: he's still They have three guys with ops over eight
4:02
Speaker 3: hundred right now, and you know, you hope that Dansby
4:07
Speaker 3: Swanson the game he had is a glimmer of things
4:10
Speaker 3: to come. I feel like there were some balls that
4:12
Speaker 3: he drove recently that he wasn't getting rewarded for. You
4:16
Speaker 3: have to hope that that's that's you know, this is
4:19
Speaker 3: him turning a corner. Let's touch on a couple other
4:23
Speaker 3: news where the items here. Obviously Cody Bellinger out, I
4:28
Speaker 3: believe what's happened. It's a it's a fractured left Let's
4:33
Speaker 3: let's make sure. Since I was not in Baltimore, I
4:36
Speaker 3: want to make sure what Patrick wrote. It's a fractured
4:40
Speaker 3: left middle finger. It sounds like he's out through like
4:44
Speaker 3: he's shut down through the All Star break and then
4:47
Speaker 3: they are going to run some tests and like check
4:50
Speaker 3: his range of motion in the finger. We don't really
4:52
Speaker 3: have a timeline here. It's a blow. It obviously is,
4:57
Speaker 3: but he was not. He wasn't dominating on offense. You
5:01
Speaker 3: have to hope that these guys stay hot, and guys
5:03
Speaker 3: like I mentioned, like Dan Sby Swanson, you have to
5:05
Speaker 3: hope that the guys that are hot can kind of
5:06
Speaker 3: stay hot. And then Dansby kind of gets going, gets
5:10
Speaker 3: in a rhythm, Christopher Morrell gets in a rhythm. Other
5:13
Speaker 3: players step up. Alexander Canario has been called up. I
5:17
Speaker 3: think it's unfair to expect him to to light it up.
5:21
Speaker 3: He's a you know, he's he's got a ton of power.
5:24
Speaker 3: I don't think he was dominating at Triple A or
5:27
Speaker 3: anything like that, not recently. He's he can he can
5:30
Speaker 3: get on fire, though he certainly has that capability. Nico
5:33
Speaker 3: Horner has been looking better at the plate, Miles Master
5:36
Speaker 3: Bone's looking a little comfortable. My guess is you may
5:39
Speaker 3: see more Master Boney at third base and morel at
5:42
Speaker 3: d H and then Canario will get some starts against lefties.
5:47
Speaker 3: That makes That's what makes sense to me, and just
5:50
Speaker 3: going along with how I've what I've observed from what
5:53
Speaker 3: Craig Council does, so I think that's probably your expectation. There.
5:58
Speaker 3: It is a blow. It absolute hurts. It's not ideal
6:02
Speaker 3: to have Cody Bellinger on the IL. I just don't
6:05
Speaker 3: think it's as big as a loss as it would
6:08
Speaker 3: have been last year at this time. Frankly, he was
6:12
Speaker 3: carrying the offense. Right now, other guys are carrying the offense,
6:15
Speaker 3: an offense that's suddenly turned around. I think the little
6:20
Speaker 3: more concerning, in my opinion, is kind of the status
6:24
Speaker 3: quo for Jordan Wicks and Ben Brown. It sounds like
6:26
Speaker 3: they've kind of plateaued in there comes back comebacks. Patrick
6:32
Speaker 3: tweeted that Wicks, which is an oblique injury, and Ben
6:37
Speaker 3: Brown are both still symptomatic and only at the stage
6:40
Speaker 3: of playing catch. Councils quoted as saying it's going a
6:44
Speaker 3: little slow right now. It sounds like Wicks the earliest
6:48
Speaker 3: he'll be back is August. Ben Brown, this is kind
6:51
Speaker 3: of what we've been hearing whenever I talked to him
6:53
Speaker 3: in the clubhouse. It's kind of like playing catch a
6:55
Speaker 3: bullpen here and there still kind of feeling things. You know,
7:00
Speaker 3: you'd love to have one or both back in the rotation,
7:03
Speaker 3: beef up the bullpen. You know that they'll have decisions
7:07
Speaker 3: to make at some point when all these guys return.
7:10
Speaker 3: We knew that going in they weren't going to be
7:12
Speaker 3: back before the All Star break, So you hope that
7:15
Speaker 3: there's some positive, positive momentum for Ben Brown during the
7:20
Speaker 3: All Star break because I think his return it'll be
7:24
Speaker 3: interesting to see how they use him, because I think
7:26
Speaker 3: his return could really impact either the rotation or the bullpen.
7:30
Speaker 3: If it's the rotation, it definitely either way. Wherever he returns,
7:33
Speaker 3: it impacts a bullpen right because it's going to shift
7:35
Speaker 3: things around. So I think that's a fascinating aspect here.
7:40
Speaker 3: You want these pictures to get healthy. They still have
7:43
Speaker 3: others that are getting healthy, like Julian Merriweather, Mark Lighter
7:47
Speaker 3: Junior is back, Javier assad is expected to be back
7:50
Speaker 3: this weekend. That's the last I heard, but it's still TBD.
7:53
Speaker 3: We just got the probables for this weekend in Saint Louis,
7:58
Speaker 3: Hendrix on Friday Day was nesky and TBD on Saturday.
8:02
Speaker 3: That very well could be a sad. They could be
8:05
Speaker 3: holding off just to be one hundred percent sure that
8:06
Speaker 3: he's both healthy and that they get through Friday clean.
8:11
Speaker 3: And it makes sense to bring back a sad because
8:13
Speaker 3: he's probably going to be on some sort of pitch
8:15
Speaker 3: limit tie on on Sunday to wrap up the unofficial
8:19
Speaker 3: first half. Here, we'll see obviously a huge four game set.
8:26
Speaker 3: It's going to be disgustingly humid, just like it was
8:29
Speaker 3: in Baltimore. Their pitching has been great. You have to
8:33
Speaker 3: hope that Hendricks bounce is back and at least keeps
8:35
Speaker 3: them in the game, and the offense kind of gets
8:38
Speaker 3: rolling again or continues to roll, because I do think
8:44
Speaker 3: this is you know, you don't want I think you
8:48
Speaker 3: can get away with a split here and it's all right,
8:51
Speaker 3: it's not the end of the world. But after sweeping Baltimore,
8:54
Speaker 3: I think you want more, right, you just do you
8:56
Speaker 3: want to keep this momentum rolling. It's going to be
9:00
Speaker 3: really hard to win four in three days. It just is.
9:02
Speaker 3: I know Saint Louis just got swept in a double header,
9:06
Speaker 3: but it's just hard to win those. Ultimately, it's not
9:10
Speaker 3: it's not the easiest thing to do. It's it's sunny
9:12
Speaker 3: gray on Friday. That's gonna be a tough game. They
9:14
Speaker 3: beat Corbyn Burns on Wednesday, so it's not impossible. This
9:18
Speaker 3: offense is feeling good looking good. Who knows what happens
9:22
Speaker 3: Lance Layne Kyle Gibson on Saturday, Miles Michaelis on Sunday.
9:27
Speaker 3: I'm very curious to see how they do what they
9:29
Speaker 3: can do and if they can keep this rolling. Five
9:32
Speaker 3: hundred at the break would be huge. Obviously that's the
9:34
Speaker 3: best they can be. But if there are anywhere from
9:37
Speaker 3: three to two games under, I think that's a huge win. Well,
9:42
Speaker 3: I guess the best they can it's either four or
9:45
Speaker 3: two games under, right, four or two, I think you
9:48
Speaker 3: take it. I think you take it and you feel
9:50
Speaker 3: good about where they're at. A split is acceptable, not
9:54
Speaker 3: what you want, but it's acceptable and it puts you
9:57
Speaker 3: in position to kind of get things rolling in the
10:00
Speaker 3: second half. Hope they're healthier. Mike Talkman could be returning
10:03
Speaker 3: soon in the second half. He's been basically in the
10:06
Speaker 3: way Cody Bellinger has been playing. That's not like some
10:10
Speaker 3: huge drop off from Cody Bellinger, Mike Talkman, it just isn't.
10:13
Speaker 3: That's the reality of the way they've been playing. Obviously,
10:16
Speaker 3: the ceilings higher with what Cody Bellinger can do, and
10:20
Speaker 3: you know he stands out defensively at times, especially when
10:23
Speaker 3: he's playing right field. But this this weekend is fascinating
10:28
Speaker 3: and it feels weird to say that because four days
10:32
Speaker 3: ago it was not the feeling anyone had, because it
10:35
Speaker 3: didn't nobody. I don't think anybody expected things to turn
10:38
Speaker 3: around in Baltimore against a team that's young and exciting
10:42
Speaker 3: and looks, you know, poised to be aggressive at the
10:45
Speaker 3: deadline and then makes him noise in October. We'll see
10:49
Speaker 3: how the weekend goes. Let's get to Katie Wu she
10:53
Speaker 3: is great as always and kind of see what to
10:56
Speaker 3: expect this weekend and how the Cardinals have been doing. Katie,
10:59
Speaker 3: thanks so much for joining us. Yeah, how are you doing.
11:04
Speaker 1: I'm good, guys, just getting ready for one last Cardinals
11:08
Speaker 1: cub series before the end of the first half where
11:11
Speaker 1: it feels like these teams might be in a little
11:13
Speaker 1: bit of different directions lately. But I'm sure we can
11:15
Speaker 1: get into that, Katie.
11:19
Speaker 3: Two double headers for the Cardinals in a span of
11:22
Speaker 3: what is this four days? It's gonna be. I just
11:26
Speaker 3: want to know, how's your mental health.
11:30
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad this is in a video podcast because
11:34
Speaker 1: it's it's a grind, you guys, and you know this
11:37
Speaker 1: just as well as I do the I feel like
11:40
Speaker 1: the ten days before the All Star break feel like
11:42
Speaker 1: an actual month, and just going on the Cardinals clubhouse,
11:46
Speaker 1: everyone's on the same page. Just get through the next
11:48
Speaker 1: four or five days and we have four days off
11:51
Speaker 1: and then everything will be fine. But I feel like
11:53
Speaker 1: I'm personally crawling to that finish line. Well.
11:57
Speaker 4: It's funny because I think the last time we saw you, well,
12:01
Speaker 4: obviously time is all blending together right now, but like
12:04
Speaker 4: the Cardinals were toasts, the Cubs weren't quite toast.
12:07
Speaker 3: And then the Cubs played way worse.
12:10
Speaker 4: And I think I'd kind of circled this upcoming weekend
12:14
Speaker 4: as like, all right, two sellers. There'll be lots of
12:16
Speaker 4: scouts there to see, like, how have the Cardinals turned
12:21
Speaker 4: it around? Obviously the standards in the National League are
12:24
Speaker 4: a little bit lower, but like they're sort of legit.
12:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're playing good baseball, and they're doing so most surprisingly,
12:34
Speaker 1: in my opinion, without good or even really average seasons
12:38
Speaker 1: from Paul Goldschmitt and Nolan Arnado. Right like, coming into
12:42
Speaker 1: the season, every projection was virtually the Cardinals have to
12:46
Speaker 1: have good seasons from those two otherwise they just simply
12:49
Speaker 1: won't be good, and I think Goldschmiant and are not
12:51
Speaker 1: would be the first to say that their seasons have
12:53
Speaker 1: not been good. Yet. The Cardinals have found themselves like
12:56
Speaker 1: one of baseball's best teams since the middle of May,
12:59
Speaker 1: and I think that's kind of a twofold thing. One
13:02
Speaker 1: they're pitching is so much better than last year. And
13:05
Speaker 1: it's actually funny when you look at the stats, their
13:07
Speaker 1: rotation array actually ranks like under league average in terms
13:11
Speaker 1: of performance. But the bar was so low in twenty
13:15
Speaker 1: twenty three that this new and improved rotation of Sunny Gray,
13:18
Speaker 1: who has been exactly what this Cardinals team needed. Kyle Gibson,
13:22
Speaker 1: I think one of their most underrated signings in baseball,
13:25
Speaker 1: and then lanceln and Miles Michael is just kind of
13:27
Speaker 1: figuring things out so much better. It's provided kind of
13:30
Speaker 1: a as long as we're able to put together quality starts,
13:33
Speaker 1: which more often than not, those four do. They have
13:36
Speaker 1: the tools to hold on and win ball games. Now
13:39
Speaker 1: they're not blowing teams out. I think the Cardinals have
13:42
Speaker 1: the slimmest victory margin in the National League. They play
13:45
Speaker 1: a lot of one run games. It's all in Marmal's
13:47
Speaker 1: favorite things. He loves talking about it, how much he
13:50
Speaker 1: loves those one run victories. But they're able to win
13:52
Speaker 1: because they have a great bullpen and All Star closer Ryan Halsley,
13:55
Speaker 1: the saves leader, and they've had some guys that were
13:58
Speaker 1: originally projected to be pieces maybe that they'd call up
14:01
Speaker 1: from Triple A from time to time, step up and perform.
14:04
Speaker 1: And and me to me, in my opinion, that's Al Gurlson,
14:07
Speaker 1: who went from maybe making the opening day roster to
14:10
Speaker 1: their everyday number two hitter average close to two eighty five,
14:14
Speaker 1: team leader, and RBIs had fifteen home runs already. They've
14:17
Speaker 1: had just key guys step up that maybe they weren't projecting,
14:20
Speaker 1: and they've overall just been able to play a much
14:22
Speaker 1: more consistent brand of baseball. And again they're doing so
14:26
Speaker 1: without Bolschman Arnado's consistent performance. And I think that's giving
14:29
Speaker 1: the team a little bit more confidence in a weird
14:31
Speaker 1: way because it shows like, hey, our stars are, you know,
14:34
Speaker 1: not performing the way they want to, but we can
14:36
Speaker 1: still win.
14:37
Speaker 3: In that regard, Katie. Obviously, Wilson Contreras just came back.
14:41
Speaker 3: He's a hot button topic in Chicago. Before we get
14:44
Speaker 3: to him. This team is slowly getting healthier. I think
14:48
Speaker 3: there's like I read that there may be more players
14:52
Speaker 3: coming back. How much does like a guy like Tommy
14:54
Speaker 3: Edmond matter. There's there's other players that are kind of
14:58
Speaker 3: borderline coming back. How healthy are they about to get?
15:02
Speaker 3: Is that is that realistic? Are these players coming back?
15:04
Speaker 3: And how much of a difference would it make for them?
15:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, getting Contrasts back obviously huge, and I'm sure we'll
15:09
Speaker 1: talk about Wilson a little bit more. Lars Newbar was
15:12
Speaker 1: activated on Monday. That was big for them too, just
15:14
Speaker 1: because he's a regular staple guy. Tommy Edmund has been
15:17
Speaker 1: kind of the big piece that's missing. He's been out
15:19
Speaker 1: all year recovering from off season rist surgery. And you
15:22
Speaker 1: guys know how risk surgery is, especially with hitters. It's
15:25
Speaker 1: like notoriously finicky. So Tommy's had a lot of start
15:28
Speaker 1: and go with his rehab. He's just began a rehab
15:31
Speaker 1: assignment in Double A. It's going to be a lengthy
15:34
Speaker 1: one though, So the Cardinals have maybe like an an
15:36
Speaker 1: ideal target date of when he could return, but they're
15:39
Speaker 1: not necessarily committing to it, just because Tommy's had so
15:43
Speaker 1: many setbacks and because the injury itself is hard to predict.
15:46
Speaker 1: But talking to President of Baseball Operations John Azlock, he
15:49
Speaker 1: did say that he wants to see what his club
15:51
Speaker 1: looks like when healthy. Ideally that's before the trade deadline,
15:54
Speaker 1: so he's better educated on what decisions he needs to make.
15:58
Speaker 1: But Tommy Edmond is their big piece. Someone else coming
16:00
Speaker 1: back you think of, maybe like Steven Mattz, that's just
16:03
Speaker 1: kind of like a bonus. Maybe you know, maybe Steven
16:05
Speaker 1: will be healthy. We'll see, But right now, it seems
16:07
Speaker 1: like all eyes are on Tommy Evan see what he
16:09
Speaker 1: can do to bolster that club. The Cardinals from the
16:12
Speaker 1: right side, especially against left handed starters, has not been
16:15
Speaker 1: good offensively, so they'd like to see Tommy come back
16:18
Speaker 1: and perform a little bit. If not, I think the
16:20
Speaker 1: Cardinals could go out there and get like a right
16:22
Speaker 1: handed bat for a rental for the end of the year.
16:25
Speaker 4: I think it was Wilson's first trip back to Wrigley
16:28
Speaker 4: Field when he got scapegoaded there for some last year
16:32
Speaker 4: for some general issues with the pitching staff, Like obviously
16:38
Speaker 4: we saw it was really hard to watch his injury
16:43
Speaker 4: trying to steal strike there like, how is he doing
16:46
Speaker 4: and how is he sort of fitting in in the
16:49
Speaker 4: second year in Saint Louis.
16:51
Speaker 1: Remember twenty twenty three, How fun that was when the
16:53
Speaker 1: Cardinals were like, hey, here's our starting catcher that we
16:56
Speaker 1: just signed for like a franchise record deal. He's going
16:59
Speaker 1: to go back to Wriggly and oh, by the way,
17:02
Speaker 1: not catching. We don't know when he's gonna catch again,
17:04
Speaker 1: but no, he's not going to do it. That was
17:06
Speaker 1: really fun. That was a really cooler for everyone. People
17:09
Speaker 1: really enjoyed that. And then of course the injury was
17:12
Speaker 1: brutal too, especially because his April I mean to me,
17:15
Speaker 1: he was an early look for a potential All Star.
17:17
Speaker 1: He had a high nine fifty ops. He was virtually
17:20
Speaker 1: the only person in the lineup actually hitting the baseball
17:22
Speaker 1: out of the infield. And then you think of it,
17:25
Speaker 1: Wilson means to this club, and he's a fan favorite
17:27
Speaker 1: for sure. Fans love his passion. You guys might find
17:29
Speaker 1: this shocking, but the Cardinals aren't really like a very
17:34
Speaker 1: outgoing celebratory group, right cart wheels at their base, So
17:41
Speaker 1: to see that kind of fire from one player, it's different, Like,
17:45
Speaker 1: you guys know this Cubs fans down this Wilson conturious.
17:47
Speaker 1: His passion is just different and there's a reason why
17:52
Speaker 1: all the opposing teams hate him and hismates love him
17:55
Speaker 1: because he does stuff like that. And so he's been
17:57
Speaker 1: in really well at the clubhouse. He more so just
18:00
Speaker 1: brings a consistent bat and he brings this energy that
18:02
Speaker 1: the club needs because they don't have a lot of
18:06
Speaker 1: outgoing celebratory personalities. And that's okay. You know, if you're
18:10
Speaker 1: not comfortable doing it, don't try to force yourself into
18:12
Speaker 1: something you're not. But the guys, especially knowing what Wilson
18:16
Speaker 1: went through last year, his pitchers especially have really rallied
18:19
Speaker 1: behind him, and he's a strong voice in that clubhouse.
18:21
Speaker 1: So while year two did not get off to the
18:24
Speaker 1: start that he wanted in terms of injury, he's absolutely
18:27
Speaker 1: made a home in Saint Louis, and I think both
18:28
Speaker 1: the fans and the clubhouse really respect him and have
18:31
Speaker 1: his back.
18:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I'm looking at his numbers and knowing what
18:36
Speaker 3: Cubs fans are getting from their catchers. Offensively, even if
18:42
Speaker 3: you know even you can say whatever you want about
18:44
Speaker 3: Wilson's defense and what he does behind the plate, what
18:47
Speaker 3: you can measure what you can't measure. All that stuff
18:50
Speaker 3: thrown up the window. His offenses is amazing and listen,
18:53
Speaker 3: we're not going to rehash all the reasons why he's
18:56
Speaker 3: not a CUB, but it's clear impact on offense. And
19:01
Speaker 3: I always said this at the time, if he wanted
19:04
Speaker 3: to come back as a DH that would have been
19:07
Speaker 3: worthwhile because he's that talented. Offensively aircrats here from FT.
19:14
Speaker 5: I'm a former athlete that really pays attention to his
19:17
Speaker 5: routine and AG one every morning before my workouts is
19:21
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Speaker 2: go check it out. Ft fam Katie, how is this
20:15
Speaker 2: team going to get?
20:16
Speaker 3: So?
20:16
Speaker 1: So?
20:17
Speaker 3: You said that these two teams we're we're heading in
20:19
Speaker 3: opposite directions, and then that's absolutely absolutely true. But the
20:23
Speaker 3: Cubs of one, five of six, the NL is so
20:26
Speaker 3: bad that that they're actually somehow still in this I don't.
20:30
Speaker 3: I still like have to triple check, triple check the
20:33
Speaker 3: standings to make sure it's not a fever dream, uh,
20:37
Speaker 3: because it makes no sense. But the Cubs fans are
20:41
Speaker 3: going to want to know, like can they get back
20:44
Speaker 3: in this for real? This weekend, especially pitching is going
20:47
Speaker 3: to be tough for both sides I think to get through.
20:50
Speaker 3: Uh with does does yesterday? Does Wednesday's doubleheader impact this
20:55
Speaker 3: weekend at all? For the Cardinals? What do they have
20:58
Speaker 3: stacked up? What? What? What can this offense that the
21:01
Speaker 3: Cubs hope is turning around expect?
21:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, the more I think about it, the more this
21:06
Speaker 1: is a huge weekend for Chicago, just thinking about where
21:09
Speaker 1: they are in the standings, the recent run they've been on,
21:11
Speaker 1: and just how much is at stake because this division
21:14
Speaker 1: and just National League, I guess, is borderline mediocre, so
21:19
Speaker 1: you can be under five hundred and still be well
21:21
Speaker 1: in it. So then Jed Hoyer has a really difficult
21:24
Speaker 1: decision to make. But I do think for Saint Louis,
21:27
Speaker 1: their doubleheader on Wednesday made things more difficult for their
21:31
Speaker 1: two game series against the Royals, which they lost both games,
21:34
Speaker 1: but it actually set them up for success heading into
21:36
Speaker 1: the weekend because they gave all four of their veteran
21:39
Speaker 1: starters Sunny Gray, Lancelin, Kyle Gibson, Miles Michaelis an extra
21:43
Speaker 1: day of breast, and they structured them so those four
21:45
Speaker 1: will pitch the four games over the weekend. Then of
21:48
Speaker 1: course I'll get a twenty seventh man that will most
21:50
Speaker 1: likely be bullpen help. So they feel like they're in
21:52
Speaker 1: a good spot because like I said earlier, those guys
21:55
Speaker 1: are really consistent in notching quality starts, and this offense
21:59
Speaker 1: looks a little bit better than how it did in
22:00
Speaker 1: April and May. Cubs and Cardinals had very similar offensive
22:04
Speaker 1: performances in the first two months. I felt like when
22:07
Speaker 1: I first saw the Cubs play against the Cardinals, I
22:09
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know which team is which. This
22:10
Speaker 1: looks exactly like what I've watched Saint Louis do for
22:13
Speaker 1: the first six weeks. But I do think that Saint
22:17
Speaker 1: Louis set up in a really strong side from their
22:19
Speaker 1: pitching side. It's going to be again, what do they
22:21
Speaker 1: get from the offense, But if Saint Louis has a
22:23
Speaker 1: lead in the seventh, they feel really confident about that,
22:26
Speaker 1: even if it's just one run, because they have such
22:28
Speaker 1: a strong bullpen. So that's kind of where they feel
22:30
Speaker 1: they're confident because they were able to reset their pitching.
22:33
Speaker 1: Didn't work out well for them in Kansas City. But
22:35
Speaker 1: they do feel much more and better or much better
22:37
Speaker 1: about their odds going into the weekend against the Cubs.
22:40
Speaker 4: Kenny, how much pressure is this front off as the Cardinals'
22:44
Speaker 4: front office under to like deliver at the trade deadline?
22:50
Speaker 1: I feel, you know, it's a good question, because I
22:52
Speaker 1: feel like a normal front office would feel a ton
22:55
Speaker 1: of pressure. Being twenty five hundred last year disappoint and
23:01
Speaker 1: I Obviously the Cardinals front office is under pressure, but
23:04
Speaker 1: like John Mozelak is just simply not going to acknowledge
23:07
Speaker 1: that he's facing significant heats. I think that's common sense,
23:10
Speaker 1: but he's going to offerate under the like, you know,
23:12
Speaker 1: things are fine, we're under control, We're in a good spot.
23:17
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's considerable pressure because when you are the
23:20
Speaker 1: Saint Louis Cardinals, and I know Cubs fans are so
23:23
Speaker 1: tired of this. I get it. You teut yourself as
23:25
Speaker 1: a winning franchise and you know the Cardinal way and
23:29
Speaker 1: all this rich history. You need to back that up
23:32
Speaker 1: with your actions. And you're allowed to have one bad season,
23:34
Speaker 1: of course, like the first losing season in fifteen years
23:38
Speaker 1: in Saint Louis. Okay, yeah, that's allowed. But you can't
23:42
Speaker 1: keep writing the coattails of your past success if you're
23:44
Speaker 1: not doing anything to improve the current future of your squat.
23:48
Speaker 1: And I do think the Cardinals are facing kind of
23:50
Speaker 1: an inflection point this season. That's why things felt so
23:53
Speaker 1: dire in May when they were like nine games under
23:55
Speaker 1: five hundred, and I thought everyone's going to lose their jobs,
23:58
Speaker 1: and they turned it around. Now I think it's on
24:00
Speaker 1: the front office to ensure that they're not just like playoffs,
24:04
Speaker 1: like they're in contention to be a playoff team, that
24:06
Speaker 1: they're a playoff caliber team. I'm not saying that the
24:09
Speaker 1: front office has to go out and make them the
24:11
Speaker 1: Cardinals match the Phillies, but there are clear weaknesses for
24:15
Speaker 1: this squad. You have a division that's very winnable and
24:17
Speaker 1: postseason berths that are very attainable. Why not give you
24:21
Speaker 1: your team the best chance not to make the postseason,
24:24
Speaker 1: but to put in a significant performance. Like we all know,
24:27
Speaker 1: with expanded playoffs, you get in no one knows what
24:30
Speaker 1: can happen. I understand some front offices reluctancy to go
24:32
Speaker 1: all in because of the randomness of this expanded playoff format,
24:36
Speaker 1: but the Cardinals have had a lot to lose. They
24:37
Speaker 1: haven't won a playoff season since or a playoff series
24:40
Speaker 1: since twenty twenty. I've never covered a playoff win. I've
24:44
Speaker 1: heard their fun wouldn't know, so I do think there
24:47
Speaker 1: is pressure when you think about how bad they were
24:50
Speaker 1: last year and the inflection point of the season. Saint
24:52
Speaker 1: Louis fans are annoyed, they're upset, they're frustrated. So a
24:55
Speaker 1: good trade deadline a goal a long way, and ensuring
24:58
Speaker 1: that fans are confident about the team, but more importantly,
25:01
Speaker 1: that the organization is common about this team going forward.
25:04
Speaker 3: Well. As far as covering playoff wins, It's been a while,
25:08
Speaker 3: but I can tell you this. Once you do it,
25:10
Speaker 3: and do it a deep run'll that that November GM meetings
25:15
Speaker 3: that we meet it, You'll you'll be you say, you're
25:17
Speaker 3: drained right now. If you cover a deep run, you'll
25:21
Speaker 3: be going insane at the GM meetings. If you have
25:24
Speaker 3: to go, you'll be like, why am I here? I
25:26
Speaker 3: haven't slept for a month straight? What is happening right now?
25:30
Speaker 3: Especially if it's in like Vegas or something like that.
25:32
Speaker 3: It's miserable. But I'm curious back to the actual Cardinals.
25:38
Speaker 3: So you talked about Goldschmidt and Aeronato not performing up
25:42
Speaker 3: to what we expect them to be. Is there are
25:45
Speaker 3: there any signs of them coming out of it? Is
25:47
Speaker 3: either one do you feel confident either one of them
25:50
Speaker 3: can can kind of get out of this rut, or
25:53
Speaker 3: is this just the natural aging process kind of catching
25:56
Speaker 3: up to them.
25:56
Speaker 1: Perhaps, Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's something
25:58
Speaker 1: that the Cardinals are asking themselves and if there are
26:01
Speaker 1: two people on the team that have earned the right
26:04
Speaker 1: for an extended trust or trial period based on their careers,
26:07
Speaker 1: it's obviously Paul Goldschmidt and Nolan Arnatto, and no one's
26:11
Speaker 1: doubting their work ethic or their hustle. I mean, I
26:13
Speaker 1: see them show up at the ballpark first thing every day.
26:15
Speaker 1: Goldschmid's out there taking early VP at one o'clock at
26:18
Speaker 1: like one hundred degrees in Saint Louis. I'm like, come on, man,
26:21
Speaker 1: I know you're tired. So it's it's difficult because they
26:25
Speaker 1: are the cornerstones at the club. The organization pledged like
26:28
Speaker 1: sixty million dollars to them this year, and they're the
26:30
Speaker 1: two most respected people in the clubhouse. But in terms
26:33
Speaker 1: of what you're seeing from they're bad at ball metrics
26:35
Speaker 1: and their overall quality of a bats. Arnatto looks a
26:37
Speaker 1: little bit better. Gold Schmidt kind of like bits and pieces.
26:41
Speaker 1: I think in Nolan's case specifically, this is the guy
26:44
Speaker 1: that's played through some aches and pains, has like explicitly
26:46
Speaker 1: said he does not feel good. It sucks to play hurt.
26:49
Speaker 1: He's looking to just go into the All Star break
26:50
Speaker 1: and reset. I think Golschwit's going to take that same
26:53
Speaker 1: mentality too. I will say this in DC last week,
26:56
Speaker 1: Olie Marmal, the manager, was sitting talking to reporters and
27:00
Speaker 1: he was like, write this down. These two guys are
27:02
Speaker 1: going to help us win ball games in the second half.
27:05
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of trust, there's a lot of
27:07
Speaker 1: respect for those two. Obviously it's going to come down
27:10
Speaker 1: to what they can do at the plate. But right now,
27:13
Speaker 1: that of all metricstone suggests a huge turnaround, but it's baseball.
27:17
Speaker 1: Things can change. Just a disappointing first half of both
27:19
Speaker 1: of those two.
27:22
Speaker 4: Hey, we love reading your coverage in the Athletic. I
27:25
Speaker 4: liked your Mosailla impersonation and that definitely comes across in
27:31
Speaker 4: your coverage. And like, I'm just wondering if I don't know,
27:36
Speaker 4: Cardinals have great players who are aging maybe rapidly, a
27:43
Speaker 4: manager who's given an extension, but it wasn't some like
27:47
Speaker 4: huge commitment, and it's not like he has like a
27:49
Speaker 4: ton of like experience at the major league level. You
27:54
Speaker 4: alluded to, like kind of the fatigue with the front
27:57
Speaker 4: office or maybe the model, like where is this or
28:00
Speaker 4: like what if they don't make it to October. Explain
28:04
Speaker 4: kind of that well you put well, that inflection point
28:07
Speaker 4: that they're nearing, kind of like the reckoning that the
28:09
Speaker 4: Cubs had talked about kind of towards the end of
28:12
Speaker 4: Theo's turn.
28:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think this organization knows where it's going after,
28:17
Speaker 1: you know, things turn south, they don't make the playoffs.
28:20
Speaker 1: I mean, Moe is under contract through the twenty twenty
28:22
Speaker 1: five season. He's said that he plans on stepping down
28:25
Speaker 1: and we're sending some of his responsibilities taking a step
28:28
Speaker 1: away after that.
28:29
Speaker 3: Now.
28:29
Speaker 1: He also said that coming into twenty twenty three, so
28:32
Speaker 1: we will see because he's still here, and you know,
28:34
Speaker 1: I'm not like taking a shot at him by yeah,
28:37
Speaker 1: curersics for himself. But the Cardinals have a lot to address,
28:40
Speaker 1: not just with their current roster, which is a little
28:43
Speaker 1: bit on the older side, they also have an outdated
28:47
Speaker 1: model and player development. They're drafting in the top ten
28:50
Speaker 1: this Sunday for the first time since nineteen ninety eight.
28:53
Speaker 1: It's a very long time and there's significant pressure to
28:57
Speaker 1: make sure they get that pick right, and there's also
28:59
Speaker 1: pressure to make sure they have the development internally to
29:01
Speaker 1: make sure their minor league systems continue to prosper and
29:04
Speaker 1: I think that's part of the reason why Hein Bloom
29:06
Speaker 1: was brought in to help with player development. I mean,
29:09
Speaker 1: the Cardinals used to set the standard and how to
29:11
Speaker 1: develop players and you know, draft homegrown talent, not even
29:14
Speaker 1: from the top ranks but middle of the pack and
29:17
Speaker 1: turn out everyday players. And it's been a while since
29:20
Speaker 1: the Cardinals consistently did that. I do think overall the
29:24
Speaker 1: organization is a little outdated and I think that really
29:26
Speaker 1: caught up to them in twenty twenty three when everything
29:29
Speaker 1: that could have gone wrong did go wrong and then
29:31
Speaker 1: some so winning in twenty twenty four fixes the temporary
29:35
Speaker 1: problem of rebounding from a horrible season and trying to
29:39
Speaker 1: get the team back on track. But I think the
29:41
Speaker 1: bigger answers the Cardinals have to have to see regardless
29:44
Speaker 1: of how they finish the twenty twenty four season, it's internally,
29:47
Speaker 1: it's with their player development. It's you know, what kind
29:49
Speaker 1: of advancements can they make with the front office. What's
29:51
Speaker 1: it going to look like when Slash if most steps away,
29:55
Speaker 1: And those are things that can't be answered over the
29:56
Speaker 1: course of you know, one to two months You're looking
29:59
Speaker 1: at a serious orgganization rehaul, and I'm not quite sure
30:02
Speaker 1: they know which direction to go about just yet.
30:05
Speaker 3: Uh, Katie, this is my last question, but it just
30:08
Speaker 3: you just made me think about this. I think Jordan
30:12
Speaker 3: Walker's really struggling in Triple A. I did not expect
30:16
Speaker 3: listen the struggles in the Majors. It's normal for a
30:19
Speaker 3: kid his age. I get that what's happening there is
30:22
Speaker 3: there is there Are they trying to change something? And
30:25
Speaker 3: this is the part of the process where he's he's struggling,
30:29
Speaker 3: I believe, if I'm remembering correctly, I get I get
30:31
Speaker 3: guys mixed up. But I think he he hits the
30:33
Speaker 3: ball hard and he was hitting it on the ground
30:35
Speaker 3: too much. So are they are they trying to change
30:37
Speaker 3: contact point? Are they changing something or is this just
30:40
Speaker 3: a kid going through it right now? And uh possibly,
30:44
Speaker 3: you know, who knows what type of future he has.
30:46
Speaker 3: But what are they working on with him?
30:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, that those are the exact two things that they
30:52
Speaker 1: want to work on. They like that he hits the
30:53
Speaker 1: ball hard. They don't like that he hits the ball
30:55
Speaker 1: on the ground so consistently. And it's unfortunate because when
30:59
Speaker 1: I mean you drive around but stadium there are Jordan
31:01
Speaker 1: Walker posters all over the place like he was burly
31:04
Speaker 1: expected to be. It's sad, actually every time I see it,
31:06
Speaker 1: like it's like bry By the parking lot too. I
31:08
Speaker 1: see it every day. Nice guy too, seriously so nice.
31:13
Speaker 1: But they were like firmly expecting Jordan to be like
31:17
Speaker 1: their supplementary power. Like you had Contrarasts Arnott, al Goldschmidt
31:21
Speaker 1: and then Jordan Walker, Lars new Marnolan Gorman. He was
31:24
Speaker 1: expected to be an everyday guy. Even if his defense
31:27
Speaker 1: in the outfield was not necessarily the best. They believed
31:30
Speaker 1: you had the bad skills to make up for it.
31:32
Speaker 1: And spring training he did not look good at spring
31:34
Speaker 1: training though then in April got progressively worse where he
31:38
Speaker 1: was missing on virtually every slider down and a way,
31:40
Speaker 1: and opposing pictures just kept hammering that spot. So he
31:44
Speaker 1: just was completely lost. And the hope was when they
31:46
Speaker 1: oftened him in April, it would be a little bit.
31:49
Speaker 1: It wasn't gonna be like a quick go on a
31:50
Speaker 1: heater in Memphis and we'll call you back up. It
31:52
Speaker 1: was you'd have some issues you need to work through
31:54
Speaker 1: with your swing. You want to get your line drive
31:56
Speaker 1: right up, your h the ground ball right down, elevation
32:00
Speaker 1: launch angle, and the same problems still accompanied in triple
32:05
Speaker 1: A when the pitching is much less competitive. I mean,
32:08
Speaker 1: Walker has an ops under seven hundred in Memphis right now,
32:11
Speaker 1: So now it's looking like a complete swing rehaul, where
32:14
Speaker 1: you know he's had been close to consideration and being
32:16
Speaker 1: called up in the second half unless something wild happens
32:19
Speaker 1: and it's disappointing because it's essentially a lost year for Jordan.
32:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, prospects in general, right top twenty
32:26
Speaker 3: guy suddenly turning into a sub seven hundred guy in
32:31
Speaker 3: triple A is just very very odd to see. It's
32:34
Speaker 3: not unheard of, but it happens. But especially with the Cardinals,
32:37
Speaker 3: it's very odd to see. Cubs fans are probably shocked
32:40
Speaker 3: because every every random guy that's called up seems to
32:43
Speaker 3: crush the Cubs. Katie, thanks so thanks so much for
32:47
Speaker 3: joining us. I've said this about our previous guests, but
32:50
Speaker 3: the Athletic is lucky to have so many young, brilliant writers,
32:54
Speaker 3: and you're among the standouts. There's a reason you're you're
32:57
Speaker 3: working with Will and Patrick to to gather information ahead
33:01
Speaker 3: of the trade deadline, like you've you stand out among
33:05
Speaker 3: the ability to make connections and really talk to people.
33:09
Speaker 3: You understand what this business is about. You understand what
33:12
Speaker 3: our jobs are about, and it's it's becoming rare. It's
33:14
Speaker 3: not becoming rare. It's always rare with young, young writers
33:18
Speaker 3: we need. It takes a while for people to figure
33:20
Speaker 3: it out. You figured it out so quickly in the
33:22
Speaker 3: middle of a pandemic too. Uh, let's not forget that
33:24
Speaker 3: that's when you started. So just I want to say,
33:28
Speaker 3: I'm always impressed by your work, how quickly you've turned
33:31
Speaker 3: into a standout beat writer on a really tough beat.
33:35
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for joining us, Katie.
33:37
Speaker 1: That was so nice. Guys, thank you. You know I learned
33:38
Speaker 1: from the best to included. It's nice to have so
33:41
Speaker 1: many awesome and amazing coworkers that I read every day.
33:44
Speaker 1: Makes me better. Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing at
33:47
Speaker 1: least one of you this weekend. It should be it
33:50
Speaker 1: should be fun. But my one complaint is I'm once
33:52
Speaker 1: again not seeing Showda four games. I still don't get
33:56
Speaker 1: to see him. I'm tired of it.
34:00
Speaker 4: I'm on the show to plan. I need some extra rest.
34:03
Speaker 4: So the hotday problem this weekend.
34:06
Speaker 3: Thanks so much, Katie. Thanks guys, thanks so much for
34:09
Speaker 3: listening to Northside Territory. Thanks to Katie Wu, our great
34:13
Speaker 3: Cardinals beat writer at The Athletic for coming on the show,
34:17
Speaker 3: always informative and helping us out know what's going on
34:21
Speaker 3: in Saint Louis with the Cardinals. A huge series here
34:25
Speaker 3: this weekend for the Cubs if they can really, you know,
34:29
Speaker 3: make some noise and get back in this thing. Thanks
34:33
Speaker 3: to all of you for listening. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe,
34:36
Speaker 3: do all those things that you do for podcasts. Spread
34:38
Speaker 3: the word if you can. We want as many Cubs
34:41
Speaker 3: fans listening as possible. Even if you're just a baseball fan,
34:44
Speaker 3: we want you listening. Make sure to subscribe to The Athletic,
34:47
Speaker 3: read Patrick and my work. We are on top of
34:50
Speaker 3: this suddenly red hot Cubs team that you know. If
34:55
Speaker 3: they're getting back in it, will be on top of it.
34:57
Speaker 3: If they're selling at the deadline, we'll be on top
34:59
Speaker 3: of it. Whatever happens, we will be there for you
35:03
Speaker 3: and making sure you're as informed as possible. Thanks to Patrick,
35:07
Speaker 3: who is likely flying back from Baltimore, if not already home,
35:11
Speaker 3: and while you're listening this, I'm probably driving out to
35:14
Speaker 3: Saint Louis, so wish me luck in the heat. I'm
35:17
Speaker 3: not looking forward to that, but maybe the Cubs make
35:19
Speaker 3: it interesting and fun to be out there, and I'll
35:23
Speaker 3: have a fun four games to cover in three days.
35:26
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening, everyone, take it