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Starbase Louisiana Is Coming · Made of Stars

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Speaker 1: Warning, the following podcast contains an entertaining look at astronomy, physics,
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Speaker 1: and space news throughout the known universe. Listeners have been
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Speaker 1: known to learn about astronomical phenomenon, the scientific method, and
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Speaker 1: expand their vocabulary to include terms like quasar, asterism, and Uranus.
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Speaker 1: Listen at your own risk.
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Speaker 2: Go ahead. We're made of stars. Made of stars. Made
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Speaker 2: of stars.
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Speaker 3: We're made of stars.
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Speaker 1: We really are.
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Speaker 2: You could be from Hollywood, New Mexico or Mars. We're
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Speaker 2: all made.
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Speaker 3: Of stars. We are made of stars. I'm Wes Carroll,
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Speaker 3: joined by my good friend, Dr. Sean Cruz, an executive
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Speaker 3: director at Columbus State University's Coca-Cola Space Science Center. Hey, Sean.
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Speaker 2: Hey, Wes. Good to be here with you today.
1:07
Speaker 3: On Dragon Con Day.
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Speaker 2: On Dragon Con weekend, right?
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Speaker 3: We are recording this, and then I'm going to just
1:13
Speaker 3: head straight to Atlanta and just get there. That's where
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Speaker 3: I'm at. I believe we've already got notification.
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Speaker 4: Our room's ready. That's where we're at. That's where we're going.
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Speaker 2: Nice.
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Speaker 3: If I talk really, really fast, that's why, so we
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Speaker 3: can hurry up and get there. But I want to
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Speaker 3: do diligence to this show today because we've got a
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Speaker 3: couple topics.
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Speaker 4: We've got a really cool.
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Speaker 3: Galaxy story in here, a successful launch of something very important,
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Speaker 3: and then a really big story that we'll start with today.
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Speaker 3: But I'm just saying if I talk really fast, that's
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Speaker 3: why I'm not auditioning to be the new voice of
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Speaker 3: Micro Machines whenever they bring that back.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: I'm sure they're on the brink.
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Speaker 3: How great were those ads? And they had that guy
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Speaker 3: and he was the, I don't know, the world record
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Speaker 3: guy for how fast he could talk.
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Speaker 4: What a great premise.
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Speaker 2: Mike Machida?
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Speaker 4: I think so.
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Speaker 3: Something like that. But all those toys eventually come back.
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Speaker 3: I'm surprised they haven't made a movie starring The Rock.
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Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure that there's people out there right now
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Speaker 2: selling micromachines online and making a. You know, make him bank.
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Speaker 3: But I'm saying just relaunch this. Michael Bay hasn't relaunched
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Speaker 3: this with, you know, The Rock or somebody in there
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Speaker 3: or Marky Mark Wahlberg.
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Speaker 2: In there with.
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Speaker 3: But they're micro and they're machines. I just can't believe
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Speaker 3: that hasn't happened yet.
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Speaker 4: But we can hope.
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Speaker 3: And if that guy's still with us, I don't know
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Speaker 3: if he's still alive. But if he is, I would
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Speaker 3: hope he can still talk at least close to that fast. Otherwise,
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Speaker 3: people will be practicing for it. So... So let's talk
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Speaker 3: about Starbase, Louisiana. I feel very hurt because we, we
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Speaker 3: were talking about the possibility of Starbase, Georgia years ago.
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Speaker 3: And I talked the ear off of any politician in
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Speaker 3: Georgia that would listen to me.
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Speaker 4: And I would just.
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Speaker 3: Say, Hey, where are we at on this Starbase, Georgia?
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Speaker 3: And yeah, they weren't as gung ho about it as
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Speaker 3: I was. And it just never materialized. And I was
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Speaker 3: very disappointed. I know you talk the ear off some
3:22
Speaker 3: people and it.
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Speaker 4: Just didn't happen.
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Speaker 3: And it seemed like there was so much potential for this.
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Speaker 2: And I was actually working with representatives of the Georgia
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Speaker 2: department of economic development who wanted to try to bring
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Speaker 2: that here. And I went over and, you know, did
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Speaker 2: some talks over, over in that part of the state
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Speaker 2: down on that, certain County that's over on the coast.
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Speaker 3: And it just seemed like an idea that would be
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Speaker 3: hugely beneficial for Georgians everywhere.
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Speaker 2: And. Yeah. And when, and let's talk about why that's true.
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Speaker 2: I mean, we haven't, we haven't talked about this subject
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Speaker 2: on either radio or podcast for a while because we
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Speaker 2: sort of gave up on the Georgia spaceport, but Georgia
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Speaker 2: and other States in the Southeast region have a unique
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Speaker 2: demographic advantage. for launching rockets to outer space. And it's
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Speaker 2: in two, I said demographic, I meant geographic. So all
4:20
Speaker 2: the haters like, you don't even know the difference between
4:22
Speaker 2: demographic and geographic. I get it, yeah.
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Speaker 3: Well, demographic may be part of why this didn't happen.
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Speaker 3: So that's another issue altogether.
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Speaker 5: So the geographic advantage is you have to be as
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Speaker 5: far south as you can be to get as much
4:38
Speaker 5: kick off the earth in this rotation.
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Speaker 2: That you can, right? And so, hey, we happen to
4:43
Speaker 2: be in the south. And then if you happen to
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Speaker 2: be over water, which you find along the east coast
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Speaker 2: or the southeast coast, as the case may be, we're
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Speaker 2: going to learn more about that here in a minute.
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Speaker 2: If you're on the east coast, you can launch out
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Speaker 2: over the Atlantic Ocean. So states that have a southeastern
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Speaker 2: exposure to the Atlantic are the perfect place to launch rockets,
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Speaker 2: at least in the continental U.S., which is why Kennedy
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Speaker 2: Space Center is the home of America's space program is
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Speaker 2: in Florida, right?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, right. Not an accident that that location was chosen.
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Speaker 3: If you just kind of go a little bit north
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Speaker 3: up the coast, you find Georgia and you think this
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Speaker 3: seems like a prime area to build a.
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Speaker 2: Practically a stone's throw, my friend. So the southeastern coast
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Speaker 2: of Georgia has most of that geographic advantage that the
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Speaker 2: state of Florida has. And there was an effort to
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Speaker 2: lobby to try to Get some space launching going. There
5:42
Speaker 2: were actually space companies interested. I can't really say who
5:45
Speaker 2: they were because I have insider info, but there were companies.
5:50
Speaker 2: And their initials might be familiar. So anyway, so those companies, though,
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Speaker 2: are not going to launch from Georgia because the good
5:58
Speaker 2: folks of that part of the state really kind of
6:00
Speaker 2: shot that down. And as you say, our own political
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Speaker 2: leadership at the time, which is maybe, what, 10 years ago,
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Speaker 2: just lost. did not have the momentum behind them to
6:10
Speaker 2: try to push that through. They had their attention on
6:13
Speaker 2: other things, shall we say.
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Speaker 3: Well, and this is kind of one of those things that,
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Speaker 3: I mean, we don't do politics. We don't really dig
6:20
Speaker 3: deep into a lot of these things. And we're frustrated
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Speaker 3: because this would have been fantastic for Georgia. It would
6:27
Speaker 3: have been fantastic for us specifically because we would have
6:30
Speaker 3: enjoyed the opportunity to go east and check this out.
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Speaker 3: launches from this part of Georgia as often as we could.
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Speaker 3: But just to play kind of devil's advocate on this,
6:44
Speaker 3: and you start thinking about this particular part of Georgia,
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Speaker 3: and there is an environmental impact on what happens when
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Speaker 3: you build something like this and when launches happen. We
6:54
Speaker 3: saw this happen when SpaceX blew up their launch pad.
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Speaker 3: And of course, there was debris that went all around.
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Speaker 3: There is a fair amount of concern for some with this.
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Speaker 3: And we've learned this about the data centers. Like people go,
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Speaker 3: oh my gosh, we can't have this because of environmental concerns.
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Speaker 3: So it's not just that it fizzled out maybe on
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Speaker 3: a governmental level. There were people in that area who
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Speaker 3: just were not interested in this happening in their backyard.
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Speaker 3: So that's part of it as well. And there's a
7:27
Speaker 3: number of reasons why this didn't end up happening. but
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Speaker 3: we're still bummed it didn't happen because it still happened.
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Speaker 4: It just didn't happen in Georgia.
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Speaker 2: Right. I mean, I do get those concerns and I
7:40
Speaker 2: want to honor them and I want to be sure
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Speaker 2: and have those conversations. I would just remind everybody who's
7:48
Speaker 2: of that bent of mind that NASA's Kennedy Space Center
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Speaker 2: is a 140,000 protected acre Merritt Island National Wildlife Refuge.
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Speaker 2: So it is one of the largest swaths of protected
8:03
Speaker 2: lands on the East Coast because it's a spaceport. And so,
8:09
Speaker 2: you know, spaceport, I do get it. Elon blew up
8:14
Speaker 2: a couple of rockets. He did. Yeah, especially that first
8:17
Speaker 2: one when he didn't really have a sound suppression system.
8:20
Speaker 2: That was not a good move, Elon. To this day,
8:23
Speaker 2: I'm going to say, I mean, why did you not
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Speaker 2: have the sound suppression systems? It's mostly the exploded launch
8:29
Speaker 2: pad that was shot all over the area, casting debris
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Speaker 2: for a very long distance from the actual launch site.
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Speaker 2: So it was mostly that. But all right. Let's just
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Speaker 2: say nature and rockets can live together, and Kennedy Space
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Speaker 2: Center is an ideal example of how that can happen. Well.
8:52
Speaker 2: It turns out that another state thinks that that might
8:55
Speaker 2: be an ideal example of how that can happen too,
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Speaker 2: because the great state of Louisiana has just made an
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Speaker 2: arrangement with SpaceX to build the world's largest spaceport. It
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Speaker 2: is a commercial spaceflight spaceport. It's going to be happening
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Speaker 2: just to the west of the city of New Orleans
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Speaker 2: a little ways. And people say, well, isn't New Orleans underwater? Yeah,
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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, there's parts of it that are lower
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Speaker 2: than sea level. This part of land that we're talking
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Speaker 2: about is not part of the land that's lower than
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Speaker 2: sea level. Elon Musk has agreed with the state of
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Speaker 2: Louisiana to purchase land and build a, wait for it,
9:41
Speaker 2: wait for it, $ 100 billion space launch complex. Now, friends,
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Speaker 2: that is dangerous. just representative of the initial investment. The
9:57
Speaker 2: initial investment is 100%. billion coming in to the Louisiana economy. Now,
10:12
Speaker 2: that's a lot of money. It is.
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Speaker 3: And that's a lot of taxable revenue.
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Speaker 2: And I'm sure that there are parts of that taxable revenue,
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Speaker 2: as you say, or part of that overall investment that
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Speaker 2: are going to go to support the wildlife preservation and
10:30
Speaker 2: environmental preservation of that part of the coast of Louisiana. Now,
10:37
Speaker 2: let me say this. There are 195 countries on the
10:39
Speaker 2: surface of the earth That is more than the gross
10:48
Speaker 2: domestic product, the nominal gross GDP of all of them
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Speaker 2: except 78. So there are only 78 of the 195
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Speaker 2: countries on Earth that the whole country has a gross
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Speaker 2: domestic product greater than the $ 100 billion investment SpaceX is
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Speaker 2: about to plop down in the state of Louisiana.
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Speaker 3: And the environmental stuff is there. The taxable revenue is there.
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Speaker 3: And the jobs that will be created from this is
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Speaker 3: the other part of this. It just feels like the
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Speaker 3: losses keep stacking up for Georgia. The opportunity was there,
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Speaker 3: and I know it didn't work out, and I know
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Speaker 3: this is just how it happened, but it just feels
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Speaker 3: a little painful.
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Speaker 2: You know, in the greater St. Mary, Georgia area, down
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Speaker 2: in there. I wouldn't call it the wealthiest part of
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Speaker 2: the state, right? I mean, it's fine. I'm not going
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Speaker 2: to cast aspersions on it, but certainly it's not as
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Speaker 2: wealthy as some of the counties in the Atlanta area
11:55
Speaker 2: or in the Athens or Augusta area, places like that. Well,
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Speaker 2: so Vermilion Parish in Louisiana is their version of a
12:04
Speaker 2: county that that's where this is going to take place.
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Speaker 2: And that parish is going to have 3,000 new direct
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Speaker 2: jobs over the next 10 years, move into that parish.
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Speaker 2: And the annual salary of those jobs anticipated is $ 92, 600,
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Speaker 2: which is 192% above the average wage for Vermilion Parish.
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Speaker 2: That helps with schools, roads, fire, safety, police, county infrastructures,
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Speaker 2: state infrastructures, all of that. Friends, that's just the people
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Speaker 2: who are building and operating the spaceport. Don't forget that
12:53
Speaker 2: you're now going to have rockets launching out of there.
12:56
Speaker 2: And every one of those rockets is going to be
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Speaker 2: carrying a payload. And every one of those payloads is
13:02
Speaker 2: going to have a charge associated with it. And the
13:04
Speaker 2: state of Louisiana will be able to tax those launches.
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Speaker 2: And that will become part of the economic model for
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Speaker 2: the state of Louisiana. But wait, there's more. But wait,
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Speaker 2: there's more. How many people are going to come to
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Speaker 2: Louisiana to see these massive rockets launch? Friends, these are starships.
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Speaker 2: This is a star base made to launch starships. There
13:30
Speaker 2: are going to be 12 launch pads. Elon Musk's ultimate goal?
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Speaker 2: is to have 30 Starship flights per day. Rockets larger
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Speaker 2: than the Saturn V that took men to the moon
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Speaker 2: back in the 60s and early 70s. Want to take
13:51
Speaker 2: the kids to see a rocket? Well, there might be
13:53
Speaker 2: 30 of them launching that day. Eventually. Eventually.
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Speaker 4: Just seeing one of these things launch would be impressive.
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Speaker 2: It would be spectacular. I'm hoping I'm going to get
14:05
Speaker 2: to see a SpaceX Starship launch relatively soon. But they're
14:10
Speaker 2: talking about getting some of these launches going by. I'm sorry,
14:14
Speaker 2: not some of these launches. They want this launch pad
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Speaker 2: up and running and having roughly a launch per day
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Speaker 2: by 2030. That's four years.
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Speaker 4: And as many as 30.
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Speaker 2: A day, 30 per day, thousands of launches per year.
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Speaker 3: I'm not a mathologist, but, uh, that's, uh, more than
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Speaker 3: one an hour, right? There's not 30 hours in the day.
14:43
Speaker 3: So that means we got like a 50 minute cadence going, right?
14:48
Speaker 3: I mean, there's something going on here when we're launching
14:50
Speaker 3: and that's all through the night for that to happen.
14:53
Speaker 3: which is probably not even the case. I'm just thinking about,
14:56
Speaker 3: I wish I had money to invest in a hotel there, right?
14:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, exactly.
15:02
Speaker 3: This is going to be big in so many ways.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the point, Wes. It's the ancillary economic impact
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Speaker 2: that isn't immediately apparent in the story. But one has
15:15
Speaker 2: to think about, you're going to have people from literally
15:19
Speaker 2: all over the world wanting to come to this mecca
15:21
Speaker 2: of starship launches. So it's not just like Dave and
15:26
Speaker 2: Sue from Oklahoma City decide to drive down and see
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Speaker 2: a rocket launch. This is a global attraction, a massive industry,
15:37
Speaker 2: and a huge investment in a state economy all at once.
15:42
Speaker 2: I will tell you that I happen to be working
15:46
Speaker 2: for a university called Columbus State University. And I will
15:50
Speaker 2: tell you that I couldn't help but notice how not
15:53
Speaker 2: very far away we are from this particular economic boom.
15:58
Speaker 2: And we already have our students leaving our institution and
16:02
Speaker 2: going to work in the aerospace industry. I am sure
16:05
Speaker 2: that we are going to be focusing our attention on
16:08
Speaker 2: how we can help students to go down and get
16:10
Speaker 2: employed at this particular launch venue or at one of
16:16
Speaker 2: the many subcontractors that are going to want to set
16:18
Speaker 2: up their facilities and their plants and their development centers
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Speaker 2: around this launch facility simply for the convenience of being
16:28
Speaker 2: close to the world's largest spaceport. Louisiana, I mean, again,
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Speaker 2: people are going to feel a lot of ways about this,
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Speaker 2: but I'm going to go ahead and tip my hat
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Speaker 2: to you. Way to go. Your governor, Jeff Landry, had
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Speaker 2: this to say, quote, today is a pivotal moment for Louisiana.
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Speaker 2: This announcement pushes our state beyond $ 250 billion in new
16:53
Speaker 2: investment and puts us at the center of the next
16:57
Speaker 2: great frontier, unquote. And Wes, that's the other thing I
17:01
Speaker 2: want to say about the story, which is simply this. America,
17:06
Speaker 2: look what's happening. Like, you know, forget the regional impact
17:11
Speaker 2: for a moment. America, we are leading the way into
17:16
Speaker 2: a new future in space industrialization, space utilization, and economic
17:24
Speaker 2: impact of space. Recently, the World Economic Forum released an
17:31
Speaker 2: estimate for how great the global space economy is going
17:35
Speaker 2: to be growing over the next 10 years or so.
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Speaker 2: And it's expected to go past $ 1. 8 trillion globally. That's trillion. $ 1. 8
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Speaker 2: trillion globally by the year 2035. And where will that
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Speaker 2: be headquartered? Well, it will be headquartered majority, at least
17:55
Speaker 2: right now, majority in the United States. And where in
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Speaker 2: the United States? Well, it looks like Vermilion Parish. Ugh.
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Speaker 4: It is painful to think that this could have happened
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Speaker 4: in Georgia. Maybe it wouldn't have happened to this level.
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Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe part of this is because, you know,
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Speaker 3: they're building parts for these rockets over in that area,
18:22
Speaker 3: and it's kind of convenient to have a place to
18:25
Speaker 3: launch them nearby and not have to, you know, float
18:28
Speaker 3: them around in the giant cigar tube around to Kennedy.
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Speaker 2: So, I mean....
18:35
Speaker 3: Maybe it was just a better situation for Louisiana, but
18:38
Speaker 3: it still feels a little painful that we didn't get
18:40
Speaker 3: this in Georgia. Yeah.
18:43
Speaker 2: And I I've done enough editorializing for one podcast and
18:47
Speaker 2: usually we try to be lighthearted and fun, but you know,
18:50
Speaker 2: this is, this is both kind of painful as Wes said,
18:53
Speaker 2: but also in another light, very exciting, right? It's, it's,
18:58
Speaker 2: it's ushering in a new, a new day. for the
19:04
Speaker 2: space economy globally. We just happen to be within less
19:08
Speaker 2: than a day's drive of where that's going to be,
19:09
Speaker 2: ground zero.
19:11
Speaker 3: More Made of Stars right after this. Let's talk about
19:36
Speaker 3: what astronomers have found possibly. I mean, what's the story
19:42
Speaker 3: on this? Possibly the first ever starless galaxy. Wow.
19:47
Speaker 2: That's a weird story already, right?
19:49
Speaker 4: How is that even possible? How would that work?
19:52
Speaker 2: I mean, what is the definition of a galaxy? Like
19:55
Speaker 2: it's a collection of stars and gas. That's usually how
19:57
Speaker 2: it gets defined, right? Well, so, so imagine though, if
20:01
Speaker 2: you were an astronomer that studies how galaxies form, like
20:06
Speaker 2: what comes first and, What does a galaxy look like
20:10
Speaker 2: in its embryonic stages? In other words, when it's an infant. Well,
20:14
Speaker 2: so it probably looks a lot more like gas because
20:16
Speaker 2: the stars haven't formed yet, right? So it's a giant
20:20
Speaker 2: cloud of gas that through the forces of gravity and
20:25
Speaker 2: through the instabilities and the chaos that occurs in that
20:28
Speaker 2: turbulent motion of the gases in this giant collection in space,
20:33
Speaker 2: stars begin to form. Okay, so that's more or less
20:37
Speaker 2: how we think the first galaxies formed. Those first stars
20:41
Speaker 2: were generated by gravitational instabilities within what are called giant
20:47
Speaker 2: molecular clouds of hydrogen and dusty material. Okay. So imagine though,
20:52
Speaker 2: if you were just in a part of the universe
20:55
Speaker 2: where there was just an abundance of ultraviolet radiation, ultraviolet light,
21:01
Speaker 2: Now that may be caused by a nearby galaxy, right?
21:04
Speaker 2: That might be caused like you're a little tiny infant
21:07
Speaker 2: galaxy next to a big brother galaxy. And in that
21:10
Speaker 2: big brother galaxy, wow, there's all kinds of star formation
21:13
Speaker 2: and it's violent. And those giant massive stars are just
21:17
Speaker 2: belching out tons of ultraviolet radiation. Well, then you could
21:22
Speaker 2: at that time be birthed into an area of space
21:25
Speaker 2: where there's an ultraviolet abundance, an overabundance. So what happens? Well,
21:31
Speaker 2: that means the gases that you embryonic galaxy are made
21:35
Speaker 2: out of just get a little overheated. And so because
21:40
Speaker 2: of the overheating, the gases are moving too fast and
21:43
Speaker 2: they're not able to coalesce under the force of gravity
21:47
Speaker 2: or those gravitational instabilities. And so they don't form stars.
21:52
Speaker 2: All right, now that's a kind of scary bedtime story.
21:55
Speaker 2: If you're a galaxy, wow, this could have happened to you. Well,
21:59
Speaker 2: so it's also just an idea, right? It's a theoretically
22:03
Speaker 2: plausible kind of scenario that could have occurred somewhere in
22:06
Speaker 2: the universe, but that's really all it is until somebody
22:10
Speaker 2: finds evidence for it. Well, now an international team of
22:14
Speaker 2: astronomers that have been using the Hubble Space Telescope to
22:18
Speaker 2: examine astrophysical environments out there in the universe, they've discovered
22:22
Speaker 2: one of these things, they believe at least. The early
22:26
Speaker 2: evidence is indicating that it might be a starless galaxy.
22:31
Speaker 2: And this area is of course dominated by gas, but
22:34
Speaker 2: it's also dominated by dark matter and this region they've
22:38
Speaker 2: nicknamed it. They've called it cloud nine. It's kind of
22:41
Speaker 2: funny cloud nine. Anyway. So the team leader, his name
22:46
Speaker 2: is Ignacio Trujillo and he's from the Instituto de Astrophysica
22:50
Speaker 2: de Carnarious Spain. Anyway, I couldn't say it the first time.
22:56
Speaker 2: Ignacio had this to say, quote, Most objects in the
22:59
Speaker 2: universe leave some trace of light. Cloud nine does not.
23:04
Speaker 2: That silence is, in its own way, the most compelling
23:08
Speaker 2: result we have obtained yet. But the most striking aspect
23:13
Speaker 2: of our research was the absolute emptiness of the image
23:17
Speaker 2: at the location of cloud nine. When you look at
23:20
Speaker 2: an image reaching those depths and you see nothing, where
23:24
Speaker 2: a structure containing a million solar masses of gas should be,
23:28
Speaker 2: It is genuinely remarkable. Unquote, space.com. Check out the quotes
23:34
Speaker 2: there on their story. This is a weird thing, right?
23:37
Speaker 2: So again, postulated objects out there, but one has never
23:40
Speaker 2: been found before. But it now looks like this international
23:44
Speaker 2: group of astronomers using Hubble may have identified something that is,
23:49
Speaker 2: it's all the raw material necessary to build a small galaxy.
23:53
Speaker 2: It's plenty of mass in order to get that done.
23:55
Speaker 2: It's in the right form of, mostly hydrogen gas and
24:00
Speaker 2: dark matter, but it just seems to have never formed
24:03
Speaker 2: any kind of significant stellar population. And it's possibly due
24:07
Speaker 2: to that overabundance of ultraviolet heating. An interesting story. Check
24:12
Speaker 2: it out on space.com.
24:14
Speaker 3: Anytime we get a new telescope launched, it's exciting because
24:19
Speaker 3: of what may come. And we've been talking for a
24:24
Speaker 3: little bit now about the Roman Space Telescope, the Nancy
24:28
Speaker 3: Grace Roman Space Telescope. And it has now officially launched successfully.
24:35
Speaker 2: So this is a great story. I actually got to
24:39
Speaker 2: watch this launch. I was sitting looking at my phone
24:43
Speaker 2: last weekend and watched the launch to space. It was
24:46
Speaker 2: on August 30th. The Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope. first
24:50
Speaker 2: of all, is named after a lady by the name
24:52
Speaker 2: of Nancy Grace Roman. She was the first chief astronomer
24:57
Speaker 2: at NASA, the agency's first female chief astronomer or head astronomer.
25:02
Speaker 2: Nancy Grace Roman is known as a nickname, the mother
25:06
Speaker 2: of Hubble, because she was the one who advocated for
25:10
Speaker 2: a space-based telescope platform and first put together the first
25:16
Speaker 2: complete proposals for such an instrument. And so So largely
25:21
Speaker 2: the previous story about the starless galaxy, well, we have
25:25
Speaker 2: that instrument that we could identify that starless galaxy because
25:28
Speaker 2: of Nancy Grace Roman. So that's why she got the
25:30
Speaker 2: naming rights being put on this new observatory that's launched.
25:34
Speaker 2: The new observatory is an infrared telescope. And you might say, well, okay,
25:39
Speaker 2: isn't the James Webb Space Telescope also an infrared space telescope? Yes. Yes,
25:45
Speaker 2: they both are. Here's the difference. The James Webb Space
25:49
Speaker 2: Telescope takes very magnified photos of very tiny regions of
25:55
Speaker 2: our surrounding universe. The Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope is
26:01
Speaker 2: designed to take wide angle, large swath images, but in
26:07
Speaker 2: extremely high resolutions, trillions of pixels. And so this thing
26:14
Speaker 2: is a colossal camera that takes giant near infrared shots
26:19
Speaker 2: of the nearby universe. Why do we do that? Well,
26:22
Speaker 2: it's so we can do survey work. It's so you
26:24
Speaker 2: can compare numerous different objects of the same type in
26:28
Speaker 2: the same picture, in the same field, in the same image.
26:32
Speaker 2: And we need to have that kind of capability in
26:35
Speaker 2: order to run down the properties of this weird stuff
26:38
Speaker 2: called dark energy. Also, the Nancy Grace Roman telescope will
26:45
Speaker 2: help us understand the evolution of the universe, which means
26:48
Speaker 2: also the evolution of galaxies, which again relates back to
26:54
Speaker 2: the previous story we just talked about. In order to
26:57
Speaker 2: study galaxy evolution, you have to be able to study
27:00
Speaker 2: dark matter. Now, this is interesting, right? When I was
27:04
Speaker 2: in graduate school, really neither of these terms were all
27:08
Speaker 2: that mature. Neither one existed in abundance. But dark matter
27:12
Speaker 2: and dark energy have become known commodities, have been more
27:16
Speaker 2: or less verified to know that something is there and
27:18
Speaker 2: we're giving it these names. Dark matter tends to pull
27:22
Speaker 2: masses together to draw it together with gravitational forces. Dark
27:26
Speaker 2: energy tends to push the universe apart. So they actually
27:30
Speaker 2: act in opposite directions. They're still very mysterious. We don't
27:35
Speaker 2: understand all the mechanisms behind these things. But the Nancy
27:38
Speaker 2: Grace Roman Telescope is going to give us the opportunity
27:42
Speaker 2: to study both dark matter and dark energy and help
27:46
Speaker 2: to solve some of those perplexing enigmas in the world
27:51
Speaker 2: of astrophysics. And in addition to that, it's going to
27:55
Speaker 2: give us a really good chance to survey various exosolar
28:00
Speaker 2: systems for exoplanets. It's going to give us a way
28:04
Speaker 2: to be able to study in more depth solar systems
28:08
Speaker 2: that contain planets around them that are not our own
28:11
Speaker 2: sun and our own planets in our solar system. So
28:14
Speaker 2: all of this is very exciting. The deployment of the
28:17
Speaker 2: telescope went great. It's on its way out to the
28:20
Speaker 2: Lagrange two point, and it will be out there with JWST.
28:23
Speaker 2: They're going to be kind of orbiting around that, that
28:26
Speaker 2: point of gravitational balance between earth and sun out there
28:30
Speaker 2: at the L2. And that will be the environment that
28:32
Speaker 2: they inhabit and from which they study the universe.
28:35
Speaker 1: So.
28:35
Speaker 2: There you go, friends. If you want to read more
28:36
Speaker 2: about that, there's lots of stories, obviously, but nasa.gov has
28:40
Speaker 2: the story that I took my data from.
28:41
Speaker 3: More made of stars right after this. We're made of stars.
29:04
Speaker 3: A couple of total eclipses for the month of August.
29:08
Speaker 4: Pretty cool stuff.
29:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, eclipses happen in groups. So that's the thing. They
29:14
Speaker 2: happen in pairs, and the pairs can even be in pairs.
29:18
Speaker 2: And so there are times that we refer to as
29:22
Speaker 2: an eclipse season. And what happens is the moon gets
29:26
Speaker 2: in just the right orientation between the sun and the
29:30
Speaker 2: earth to block out the light from one hitting the other.
29:34
Speaker 2: And so that happens maybe a couple of times a year,
29:39
Speaker 2: but it the moon also has to be at either
29:42
Speaker 2: new or full phase when that occurs in order to
29:46
Speaker 2: get the effect of actual eclipses taking place. And so
29:51
Speaker 2: there are these 14-day spans over which you can have
29:55
Speaker 2: partial solar and lunar eclipses just because the moon's kind
29:59
Speaker 2: of lined up in the plane where the earth goes
30:02
Speaker 2: around the sun. That's called the ecliptic, by the way.
30:04
Speaker 2: All right, so that happens semi-often, right? We have multiple
30:10
Speaker 2: eclipses kind of grouped together, but they're not very often
30:15
Speaker 2: total eclipses. Total eclipses that are in the same 14-day period. Well, friends,
30:22
Speaker 2: that's kind of what we just had in the month
30:25
Speaker 2: of August, right? Because we had a nice solar eclipse
30:29
Speaker 2: that many people from the western part of Europe or
30:33
Speaker 2: even some of our friends who we know went over
30:35
Speaker 2: and saw this eclipse, including the last couple of JPL
30:39
Speaker 2: alumni we just interviewed on the last two podcasts. They
30:42
Speaker 2: were both at the eclipses. If you want to hear
30:43
Speaker 2: more about that, go back and check the podcast from
30:46
Speaker 2: the last two weeks. They are great interviews with a
30:48
Speaker 2: couple of pioneers of solar system exploration. Okay, well, so
30:52
Speaker 2: that happened on August the 12th. But then something else
30:55
Speaker 2: took place. On August the 27th or 28th, depending on
30:59
Speaker 2: what side of the time zone you were in, there
31:01
Speaker 2: was a nearly total lunar eclipse as well. So you
31:05
Speaker 2: had total solar eclipse August 12th, total lunar eclipse August 27th.
31:10
Speaker 2: I was actually in a jetliner flying to Houston, Texas
31:13
Speaker 2: when that occurred. When I got off the plane, I
31:15
Speaker 2: could see that nearly total lunar eclipse happening. So that
31:19
Speaker 2: was a very unusual pairing of total eclipses. And it's
31:25
Speaker 2: an unusual event. If you'd like to read more about that,
31:27
Speaker 2: you can check out that article and see pictures of
31:30
Speaker 2: both of those eclipses on the Astronomy Picture of the
31:34
Speaker 2: Day from NASA. That website is apod.nasa.gov. Check that out
31:45
Speaker 2: and check out the double eclipses for the month of August.
31:48
Speaker 3: You mentioned the last two shows that we did, and
31:52
Speaker 3: I was going to talk about that because we mentioned
31:55
Speaker 3: at the start of the show Dragon Con getting started today.
31:59
Speaker 3: There have been people at the host hotels of Dragon
32:02
Speaker 3: Con all week. I think they started arriving on Saturday
32:05
Speaker 3: and Sunday. I don't know how you can be there
32:08
Speaker 3: for that long. It's fun, but there's really nothing going
32:12
Speaker 3: on until today, not officially. So we, for the last
32:17
Speaker 3: two weeks, have been talking with, on this show, two
32:21
Speaker 3: of the guests who will be there discussing space, Part
32:26
Speaker 3: of the side of DragonCon that covers science. They've been
32:30
Speaker 3: doing this for a long time now. This is the
32:32
Speaker 3: 40th DragonCon, by the way. So it started in 87.
32:37
Speaker 3: This is now number 40. At some point, and I
32:41
Speaker 3: mean it was a long time ago, they added this
32:44
Speaker 3: component of bringing in scientists wanting to work in science
32:47
Speaker 3: with the science fiction.
32:48
Speaker 4: You and I have talked a lot about that.
32:51
Speaker 3: Over the years and the reason that you guys at
32:54
Speaker 3: the Coca-Cola Space Science Center sponsor the DragonCon coverage that
32:57
Speaker 3: I do every year and the DragonCon pregame show podcast
33:02
Speaker 3: with interviews from a number of these people that their
33:06
Speaker 3: shows have inspired the science to go to certain places
33:12
Speaker 3: because of science fiction. And I'm talking about people like
33:14
Speaker 3: William Shatner or George Takei from Star Trek.
33:18
Speaker 4: Among others.
33:20
Speaker 3: But these last two weeks on here on Made of Stars,
33:23
Speaker 3: we had Trina Ray and Kim Stedman, who both worked
33:27
Speaker 3: for JPL at NASA and now retired from there, but
33:33
Speaker 3: they're still doing other projects. Kim last week talked about
33:38
Speaker 3: what she's got coming up, but definitely check out the
33:41
Speaker 3: last two shows. It was a lot of fun talking
33:44
Speaker 3: with them and just kind of digging into these veteran
33:49
Speaker 3: things space brains, you know, really getting into them, how
33:53
Speaker 3: they got into their careers, what led them in that path.
33:58
Speaker 3: And I know that's a big component of what you
34:00
Speaker 3: guys do there at Columbus State University.
34:03
Speaker 2: It's so exciting to hear these veterans of solar system exploration.
34:07
Speaker 2: And by the way, both of them worked on the
34:09
Speaker 2: Cassini mission, for instance, right? So Cassini clearly, if you
34:15
Speaker 2: don't know about the Cassini mission, it's clearly one of
34:17
Speaker 2: the most successful pieces of solar system exploration that we've
34:21
Speaker 2: ever done. It was the study of the planet Saturn
34:25
Speaker 2: and then also the moon Titan and some amazing information
34:29
Speaker 2: and new knowledge coming out of that mission. Both of
34:33
Speaker 2: these two professionals that we interviewed on the last two
34:35
Speaker 2: podcasts had other contributions to solar system exploration. Everything from
34:41
Speaker 2: Voyager to Mars probes to the upcoming Dragonfly mission to
34:45
Speaker 2: the upcoming mission to Europa. So anyway, check out those
34:50
Speaker 2: last two podcasts. But also, yeah, if you get a
34:52
Speaker 2: chance to go up and see them at DragonCon, they
34:55
Speaker 2: will both be at the science segment. And you should
34:58
Speaker 2: go check that out. It's the space segment, right? So
35:01
Speaker 2: they'll be at that one. Right. Because they're breaking off science, right?
35:04
Speaker 2: Is that right?
35:05
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, there's a science component. There's a space component.
35:09
Speaker 3: There's a skeptics component. There's a lot of things there
35:13
Speaker 3: for whatever your interests are. And of course, all of
35:16
Speaker 3: the sci-fi and fantasy things to go with it. But yeah,
35:19
Speaker 3: they will largely be, I guess, working there. I know
35:22
Speaker 3: Kim said that there was another place that she was
35:25
Speaker 3: going to be speaking at as well, but just really
35:28
Speaker 3: cool stuff and a great opportunity to hear them speak.
35:31
Speaker 3: And they're regulars to this convention, so they know how
35:34
Speaker 3: it works and they probably have heard some of these
35:37
Speaker 3: questions before, but giving people opportunity to, to ask them
35:40
Speaker 3: questions and hear them speak will be a great opportunity again.
35:43
Speaker 3: And there are others there as well. Yeah.
35:46
Speaker 2: And it's, And it was a great privilege to be
35:48
Speaker 2: able to interview them on this podcast as well. And listen,
35:51
Speaker 2: if you're a student, if you're either a high school
35:56
Speaker 2: student or a university student, they both gave great advice
36:01
Speaker 2: about how to pursue your career and what kind of
36:04
Speaker 2: things to keep in mind as you're trying to have
36:08
Speaker 2: a career in space or space exploration. So, again, I
36:12
Speaker 2: would just encourage everybody to check out those two podcasts.
36:15
Speaker 2: If you've not heard them here on Made of Stars,
36:17
Speaker 2: check out the podcast with Trina Ray and Kim Stedman,
36:21
Speaker 2: both JPL veterans.
36:23
Speaker 3: Sean and I thank you for listening, and we will
36:26
Speaker 3: do this again next week. When it starts, we really are.
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